 Hey Scott George, how are you? Oh, it's great to see you. Thank you Sorry, I missed last time. I had to get my COVID shot. Oh Excellent Good to hear you coming along on the thinking skill. I am slowly moving along I've been Is a year than expected with freelance work, which has been good But it's put me a little behind on that whole thing Yeah, I owe you an email looking at my notes here I had all kinds of things but that I wanted to share with you that I thought you'd be interested in but you know It's funny. I'm the one that I can talk to you about right now was Juan Tamirez. So you had mentioned him last time and I looked him up and I was like, oh Juan I know one. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, you know, he's he's just so he's a maniac He is he is but I watched one of his Personally, he's a calm reasonable guys of physicists I mean if you talk to him, I've talked to him a lot through interpreter He's a he's just a wonderful quiet thoughtful guy. He knows exactly what he's doing He's a Emotionally manipulating you and that craziness He bring is a relief to bring you up to another level. You can't go to bring somebody up to a level like that You have to go up and back and up and back and up and back and then he stops with the with that stuff and he goes on to Just blow your mind away talking about a one of the world's greatest magicians Juan Tamirez So you went you saw him on YouTube? Yeah, I looked him up and I had seen his work before I used to follow magicians. Oh jeez 20 years ago when I was kind of directing my brother's work age illusionist and Yeah, so yeah Juan is Juan is I'm one of the people who enjoys magic for being fooled. I Just I just love it when someone is so good that you can watch them and I so pen and teller have a show and One of my favorite moments was when Teller the one who doesn't say anything is up on stage and there's this master of card tricks and The guy's doing this this mess of stuff and teller knows he's gonna get fooled and He's so excited. He actually gets his feet up on the chair He looks like a little kid. His whole body is animated He's just like this because he knows that this guy's gonna do one thing Teller's not gonna know how he did it and I I love that moment In a well-done illusion when you think wave. Oh Man really Teller has never had the most He knows he's the deepest theoretical understanding of magic of anybody on the planet He and I stayed up till like three in the morning discussing magic theory that nobody else is even interested in. Oh, yeah unbelievable guy April's here Hey guys everybody. Sorry We were just I Scott and I got a little bit of a head start No problem. I love dropping into a conversation. You're you're co-piloted series yesterday was awesome Just really awesome. I so enjoyed the richness of that conversation And I've been referring people locally to the dip documentary Hmm as well as some people that are across the country dealing with diversity issues There's momentum building and diversity that is just wonderful to see Awesome. I it's good to see everybody. I'll just be brief. Um, but it's I've you know I'm I'm sort of a lurker in this group and I'm happy that I was able to join today and Judy. Yeah, I enjoyed that a lot yesterday. I think Um, I think there will be more double-dates I think that's cool. It's really cool. I think the more we can cross populate groups of people the better And uh, that's pretty exciting I'm just so excited That right now we're getting not only a wider but a deeper dive On diversity and inclusion And it's just it's it has the possibility of really being quite powerful It's kind of like an awakening and maybe that'll be part of what will help heal that breach I just retweeted I was on tweet deck briefly and retweeted somebody Who was quoting steve's chalice republican representative is saying as describing himself as david duke without the baggage And that may be a fabrication. I don't know. I just retweeted somebody I trust so maybe that's made up But it's if it's made up. It's really good. And if it's real, it's like chilling completely chilling and i'm like, how do we My own take is the only way out of this is to individually person by person friendship by friendship Reach out to the humans who believe those things And call them out of the muck and mire into civilization or whatever we want to call it because civilization like education is not a word I particularly like Um, hi capuchin Um, thanks for joining us Uh, oh good So Kevin, I think I'll I'm going to start our our check-ins with you and april because you both I think have to have to leave a little before our longer time, but um, we'll go through it, but I think trying to rid the world of systemic racism and inbred racism and all those kinds of things is uh Is a mega super high priority and it's a very og me task It's something that that I would like us to hold in front of us and figure out From the logical perspective from the emotional perspective from the connections and community perspective from the What's fueling this perspective? There are just so many So many interesting ways This needs to be spun out Um, so it's lovely to see everybody Why don't we dive straight into some some check-ins and uh, kevin if you want to lead us off Then we'll go Kevin seven in grid hank Sure. Thanks. Well, I've been working as some folks know on this systemic racism Solved by getting capital to folks who don't get it and the particular gap I'm looking at is friends and family funding for entrepreneurs who don't have a rich aunt or uncle and um, I got a connection We've got like three churches in pilots to do some funding around this equity fund Because these are folks who can't take that to then they could get up to being loan funds But it's a curious gap that's huge and and persistent and and ubiquitous and unseen I was just looking at charlotte, uh, north carolina and 95 percent of the african-american businesses have one employee But everybody's focused on startups as opposed to getting a one one employee business where 95 are to three or four employees But I I got a connection with a guy who did the merger of the two of the largest black banks Who is really interested in in this this hidden thing and so that could be interesting, but I was also part of a Broad landscaping of the capital stack with duke university and other folks And they were going all the way down from big project fund insurances dams and infrastructure to private equity big buildings To venture to seed and then to friends and families. Well, what if they don't have a rich uncle and the guy said Oh, it's like it was a category that he didn't realize because You're not asked to do a landscaping of funds or be involved in a fund unless you have connections to money And so I'm trying to get that landscaping to realize that friends and family is an institutional asset class If you don't have intergenerational wealth And that's what's so anyway I'm I'm pushing really hard for that to be on the taxonomy And everybody who is building the taxonomy has friends and family with money And they it's really hard for them to see that this should be taken as a as a as a thing and that and that Going getting a sole proprietor has been around three years 50,000 revenue to three or four employees Is a major thing in your town and they're not going to grow to a hundred employee business But having four employees Is is is huge Because 95 of the black businesses, you know in in many cities 92 Up in the 90s 92 in Cincinnati 95 percent in charlotte and we're looking to try to get national stats on that But it's like it's like hitting and then Then they can't look at the kind of money they need so Anyway, but I'm making progress when I've got three churches that want to be pilots because philanthropic capital needs to have a motivation That is more than financial So anyway churches that want to solve the racial wealth gap investing locally So anyway, some progress and and some some some really interesting brick walls by folks who just can't see people who aren't like themselves Like they're all about diversity and inclusion, but not like about people who are different, you know Weird how that works, no Yeah, and and so they can't see the category of you know, uh friends and family is institutional not like your family Um, so I'll uh a reminder that we're trying to have our chat be on matter most so it's persistent uh through the calls and um, I just posted a link to a thought in my brain called poverty is a dismal trap and I need to figure out how to weave what you just said into that thought because Wealthy people don't realize that for poor people everything is more expensive They have to live farther out of town and take more expensive transportation into the hub and spend more of their time There was a really interesting article about Uh, a person who was living barely had the mouth long ago and they had to take their their a check and cash it at a Check caching store where they paid a huge commission And they were good friends with the with the teller like they they knew each other really really well They had a long-standing relationship going And and then proceed to buy prepaid credit cards because some of the things that he needed to pay for needed a credit card But he didn't have a credit card or a bank account So he had to buy so he had to pay a fee to get a prepaid card So he could use the card and a several other sort of layers of of things where where his every action And you know, you have poor credit and you borrow your terms are much worse than if you're wealthy and you borrow where money is free So so all of those things are just transparent and I'll come back to my favorite Quote about privilege the privilege of privilege is not noticing the privilege Right. Um, and and here's where maybe simulations or play role, you know play acting or other kinds of things might actually help Because because spending a few minutes in somebody else's shoes in any form might be actually helpful It could be i'm dealing with sort of converted investment bankers building a taxonomy I don't know, you know, I I did use finger puppets at the un But I don't know that these folks really want to do c playful stuff, but they just can't you know, it's it's It's it's a category that they Intrinsically friends and family they think about their Rolodex as opposed to I know it is a Rolodex anymore, but whatever Yeah, exactly, but but but it's it so it's like I had a friend who is a A church historian and it took her 25 years to get the word s added to tradition Because there were a bunch of traditions and the dominant tradition always tried to isolate the others and make them a heresy And so for over 25, she got s's included and which which really was super Leverage because all the heresies had a place to go as opposed to being Subordinated under the dominant. So you know changing when you say as is included you mean tradition traditions, right, right Make it a plural, which means there there's room for you know Diversity in the taxonomy or adding something to taxonomy is like you just have to bow up and get with it You know as we stay in football, I mean, you know, you just have to keep keep banging on it In a way that will keep me in the conversation. So anyway fighting fighting to to widen the taxonomy Love that. Thank you, Kevin Let's go angry to Hank capuchin Oh, hey, can I wait till the end possibly you bet I can easily do that you'd be surprised how accessible that technology is Um, so let's go Hank capuchin april Um, yeah, I don't have much of a much of a check-in today. Um, I guess I've just really been spending a lot of time reflecting on Oh just just How people experience like how people's experience can be so subsequently different and how to kind of bridge that I found in some of the conversations that I've had lately is like And again, these are personal ones with like kind of my friends. Um Where we like tread this line between being enlightened and embittered And It's easy to kind of like step into each one of those spots um but I found that It uh, sometimes when we hit walls People are just kind of like well, you have an experience what I've experienced. So You know, you'll never get it and I'm like, well, then why are we having this conversation? If I if I can truly never understand where you're coming from then why are we talking in the first place? Right? Um, which is not how I feel that's really more of a response to like You know, what are you really trying to say? Are you trying to say that you just don't agree with me and don't want to talk to me anymore or um Is that really truly how you feel and if that's really truly how you feel then where you know then Why did you pick up the phone or agree to the conversation or whatever? um, so anyway This is kind of where I've been at. Um, otherwise So I'm just I'm just chewing on that. Um in addition to some of the other stuff that I do to to make a living So, um, I just want to say I hope everyone is doing well And look forward to just hearing everybody else's check-ins. Thanks Thank you Hank. That's great. Um, this gets really personal and the conversations you're describing are exactly the kinds of places we need to be um couple of chin April Pete Um, yes. Hi. Um, I I think I'm similar I've had to focus a lot on other work the last few weeks, but In midst of that, I'm still working on some heart projects, uh, such as a platform that I'm trying to build and incorporating lots of og me things I've been rediscovering going back through some videos looking at your story threading tutorial, you know, little talk from I think last year and Anyways, I'm sure I'll get back to this in future ogm calls when I have a little more substance But I just want to say that I'm grateful for you saving absolutely everything and being able to go back through them Um, I maybe will mention last sunday. I was on the a small event called an offer and needs market put together by a a guy from Barcelona and a girl from berlin and it was like a time banking exercise with bringing 30 people together and making a list of our deals Making a list of our needs and exchanging hours And there was a yeah, it was a really wonderful Experience gave me a lot of hope in alternative economies and Yeah, nobody knew each other and it was a really really warm warm time. So And yeah, that's it. Oh jerry you're on mute I Did so let's go april pete julian That was quite funny because I could I could hear jerry because jerry's about 10 feet away from me. Um, but Hi, everyone. Um, I think I know most people but maybe not everybody. Um, I am Jerry's wife. Uh, I am an ogm member who has not joined for quite some time Mainly because my I guess my main update is that I've been working on a book Which is now done and sort of in the hands of my publisher and it will launch this summer It's very resonant with ogme ideas Jerry and I like to say that we we do different things But there's a lot of really good overlap in an ideal world. I guess we would be one plus one equals 11 And the book is titled flux Eight superpowers for thriving and constant change So I have been living breathing sleeping eating How how do we relate to change and Doing that through the lens of you know, the future of xyz Doing that through the lens of different global cultures and how cultures relate to change Which I think there are some lovely overlaps with Different kinds of diversity in terms of like how we see change how we How we think about change how we talk about it all of that I am absolutely convinced at this point that every single individual Every single organization and every single culture on the planet struggles with change Not necessarily in the same way But we've all developed unique ways of dealing with it and there's a ton we can learn from one another So, um, that's what I've been up to. I could talk about this the whole session I think one interesting thing maybe I'll I'll bring up that I'd love to Yeah, it feels to me aligned with ogm is that um, so much of how we relate to change boils down to our mindset and you know our From the understanding change from the inside out and we spend so much time I think as individuals, but largely as organizations as well focusing on change management and You know change strategy and developing a strategy to deal with it And we don't actually spend time first understanding Where our relationship to change is grounded. So for example, are you coming at change from a place of hope or fear? Depending on how you answer that question, you will develop a different strategy You will seek to manage change differently Yet no one talks for very few people talk about the mindset piece that sort of we end up putting the cart before the horse So, um, I offer that just as one thing to kind of noodle on And uh, yeah, my book launches in august. So I am completely focused on I hate to say it publicity and outreach and that sort of thing But for anyone who's published a book. I think you you understand I knew that it was going to be a heavy list after the writing I now think I will probably spend at least three times as much energy and effort on actually Getting the book into the world as I did writing it, but um That's what's up. I'm happy to be back with you all and um, I will be in listen and learn and observe mode today. So Thank you, Gary I put a link to april's book in the chat and also I mapped the eight superpowers in my brain and I put a link to that in the chat And one of the superpowers is called know you're enough Which I think is really relevant here in parts two I just want to add it to what I was saying earlier about having personal conversations and figuring out how to how to bridge that divide And one of my amateur beliefs is that Um, a lot of the people of privilege see these coming movements of social justice and whatever you want to call it even properly of alleviation as personal loss All they see from all these sorts of things and it's a little bit like when my bell is broken up There my bell's market share because it's a legal monopolist can only go from 100 percent down Because it's been broken up and now, you know, everybody's going to have less share so for somebody who's used to being in control and having power and Having privilege and having access and having inexpensive everything and having people pay attention to them Every motion toward equality feels like loss And so having them know they're enough and having them know when they have enough What do you what that even means? And there's this whole notion of a billionaire attacks that lisabeth warren has proposed that's sort of in under consideration a bunch of things like that but but how And we're busy in the middle of this set of ideas that have eaten our brains That greed is good accumulation is what it's all about that the wealthiest person is somehow The one we should bow to and has the most status all of those kinds of things and and we need to kind of undermine. I think A lot of those common notions of status and all that let me pass it to scott. What is that? um Quick question for april So in your book writing I've been exploring this idea and i'd like to understand what happened for you Were you writing to share or teach something you already knew? Or were you writing to learn and explore? To understand something that you didn't quite know yet What a wonderful question scott um, thank you and uh, and then I have a footnote to add on what jerry said about enough, so um Yeah In now that it's written I I mean, I guess I would say It was both it wasn't one or the other. Um I've shared with a few of you. Um, I spent more than 20 years of people saying hey april When are you gonna write a book? Hey, when are you gonna write a book and they most people thought it would be a travel book about, you know April's adventures, whatever And I was like that is just not what the world needs and I am not gonna write a book Because other people think I need to write a book But about five years ago. I began to feel like a book was coming out of me And initially I didn't know the form it would take I didn't know exactly how the dots would connect But what I can say now is that I had I had I guess could say lived long enough or been thinking hard enough about a set of issues In which I could feel that a unique and helpful point of view was emerging So in so far as there was something that I had to offer to others I began to feel that coming out and what was interesting for me is it wasn't forced or prompted or Wasn't something I had to do. I just felt like well I guess you could say my gut started to feel like I couldn't not do it And uh, and I don't want to get too morbid here, but I have told very you know if anything happens to me in the next five months Just make sure that book gets published because there's a piece of it. It's kind of like a love letter That's not the right phrase. But like everything that I know and care about By and large in some ways they perform shows up in this book And I know that not all books are that way. So I'm really grateful that mine ended up continuing so much of what I have Digested and noodled over and and and can provide I think in a unique and refreshing way That said I was very aware that I mean I can even say now if I were to write the book this month or next year It would be a different probably better book because of what I've learned There's this inevitable learning process not just about writing itself But like everything you learn leads to something else And I mean it got to the point Jerry saw it firsthand I just had to like and my editor in particular where he's like We have to cut the we have to toe the line like you can't keep learning You can't keep bringing more to the table because this book will never get done So inherent in that is the learning process And also, you know a clear acknowledgement that I think this book could have multiple iterations I think it could lead to like a series of books and obviously the concept of flux It's universal. It's also scale free, right? We can talk about tiny macro micro changes in your daily life We can talk about big macro changes things in flux In the world be that consumerism or climate or whatever else So it lends itself to a lot of different angles and sort of an infinite Ability or an infinite degree of of research Just real briefly jay. I was going to add a footnote on the enough stuff Just as a fun aside so that the title of that superpower Is no your enough y o you are And that relates to what is your enough? What is your point of sufficiency? What is what does enough mean? on many different scales and How many people have called me and said that's a typo It needs to say no your enough y o you apostrophe aren't you? Which is a fascinating interplay and I think knowing you are enough Just as you are and you don't need more and you don't need you know All of these external trappings and things that society tell us dictate our wealth and value to society You do need to know you are enough In or it's a piece of knowing you're bigger enough But the bigger enough is also related to physical possessions money all that other stuff So I bring that up because I've been taken aback by how many people Even the the phrase know you're enough They don't see that they they they their brain kind of does this head fake and they're like it's a typo so kind of fun Thanks, and we've been riffing on the title in the matter most chat a little bit just playing with it just a little bit um Pete julian gill Good morning all And april I wanted kind of echo that that three times the marketing effort then the writing of the book I've it took me a long time, but I think that's true of Uh software development technology development in general Um, uh technologists have this thing where software developers It's like, oh, it's only going to take me, you know This amount of effort to write the thing and it's like if you if you can't figure out how to Software developers. I don't think can market either. I think you're doing a wonderful job april and you can you're you're pro Software developers are not and they don't know how to do it. So they have to find somebody Or find some process to help them with you know It was a lot of effort to build this thing but To get it out in the world and get people using it is a much bigger effort than even building the thing Um, this week has been super generative. Uh, the string team had an amazing call On tuesday, um, and we we we jumped over a couple of hurdles and broke through some some amazing barriers. There's more stuff going on That we need to to continue we we need we need more work, but um We've made progress going along down the lionsburg Partnership maybe it's it's a good way to frame it um I spoke briefly last week about massive wiki. Um massive wiki is an effort that is not quite ready to It's not friendly yet. Um, it's still Developer developer geekiness that we're working through but um, I'm really heartened by it and it's going well The fjb call Fjb team had a really good another, you know, very productive Um, generative friction kind of call um about Whether massive wiki even makes sense or whether it should be bigger or different or things like that and so I I was really happy about that team being able to do that work. Um And then kind of in the more direct and tactical Thing with massive wiki bill anderson has been a huge help. Um in kind of just chewing through the Stuff that's only developer friendly right now So I feel like that whole thing is going really well even though I I can't really report out much or invite folks who Don't want to play with sharp computer edges um Tomorrow also as flotilla friday, uh, we've got a call at 9 a.m Pacific noon eastern and it's kind of a It's kind of a standing call. We've we're finally getting kind of maybe into the rhythm of it It's vincent and pete and whoever else talking about directories and matchmaking In a technical sense matchmaking And uh, share calendars and things like that. So you're welcome to join. Uh, there's more deets In the flotilla channel on matter mode. Can you just say what time it is? It's a call 9 a.m pacific noon, uh, eastern thank you And I think that's for c.e.t. But don't 9 a.m pacific, uh, noon eastern. Okay. Thank you um and um a big shout out to Uh, some of the that uh, jerry and I were working with and I'd probably a number of us know Dave witzel. It's awesome to see you on the call. Uh, welcome and and thanks for being here Um, cool. That's it for me. Um, thank you very much. Pete. That was awesome. Uh, julian gill vincent Since the last week i've been focusing on beefing up my Importers so that I have this triumvirate from the brain to neil for jade on my 3d visualizer Getting a lot more solid mark sent me one of his climate brains a few days ago and uh, It's been fun working with that because the massive jump and load to something real and heavy Uh, helped me get rid of a lot of software issues So the issue now is to continue making those solid Take that knowledge back to working with the sigraft history database And then it's actually at the point where something useful could be done It's like there's all this data sitting there now in the knowledge base and Real analysis could be done. So during the next week. I want to push towards getting some actual Work done with this with this knowledge base And for context for everybody julian is working with 3d visualizations of information clouds in particular SIG graph which is a special interest group on graphics of the ACM which is the association for computing machinery. Correct me if I'm wrong on all that all those acronyms But it's it's like you have to unpack the acronyms just to get to to describe what's going on here And he's also importing brain files to figure out. What is the 3d visualization of the brain actually look like and making progress It would be nice if someday As I've mentioned before if things that you do in the 3d Knowledge management tool could be fed back into the brain, but that's not likely Like the changes you may can be fed back into a neopore j version of the brain But then you're no longer connected to the brain. Yep Go ahead Oh, I was going to mention speaking of acronyms Very often that's especially in computer science you run into squared acronyms By where there's an acronym and each one of those is an acronym and it's been one of my life's quest to look for cube acronyms Oh Pete know of any I'm sure Pete's going to find a cube back. I'm just don't know. I'm just a guess here Um, and I attended one SIG graph. I don't remember what year it was Let's pretend 1992 or something like that And I remember seeing two things from at that thing one of them was called mandala And it later we see it as microsoft connect But basically I stood in front of a camera and a green screen and by reaching out I could play musical instruments and they were there were sort of uh, they were Tubes, what do you call them? Hanging from the ceiling and I could run my hand across them and they made noise Then there were drums in front of me and it was all pretty real time They had a sun server or something like that under the counter And I was like this is really and then you could tap a button on the screen And it would flip to a different background and you and everything would be animated differently And I was like this is this is really really cool. It's going to turn into something Um, so that's the kind of stuff that would show up at the at the conferences If everybody remembers the those days of when we actually showed up in person at conferences Um, seems like a long long time ago. Uh, gill vincent judy Yeah Wow so much equal wonderful to see you here. Congratulations on the book I'm eager very eager I'm reminded a dear friend of mine used to always love reminding me back in the day with Huey Newton, one of the founders of the Black Panther Party used to say Flux flux always flux So I think of that whenever I see the title here Yeah, generativity, um, I'm living in the challenge of how to funnel all that is alive and exploding inside you through one single physical body in a 28 hour day So there's that challenge and also, um, you know Exploring how to reorient to the explosion of platforms that are surrounding us and you know how to Find time to be in the conversations. I want to be in and also do the work that I want to do Specifically I'm hungry to write April. Thank you for the reminder and inspiration. I found that I've Um, I've habituated to very short form writing Living on The facebook's and the twitter's and so forth. They used to write longer stuff and I'm planning it hard to do that so what I've started to do is is to um Archive most everything the interesting that I'm doing on twitter and facebook and sticking in the file that I can use for the longer pieces on the books that are to come um In terms of creative activity right now and focus in particular I'm I'm I'm finally back in the saddle. I'm building out the turnaround funds that I've been wanting to build for a number of years So it's slow going between everything else, but feels like it's back on. I found the chief investment officer hardly like And a scheme Very challenged by turning my whole system's brain into a Single defined thing that an investor can invest in because investors seem to like very specific play. It's not multilayered integrative OGM kind of place and I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise if any of you have some thoughts on that um and second to that Working slowly on building out an academy a leadership academy around Loosely sustainability but more specifically a deeper approach to how we live in this world and that brings me back to a thank you to I'm going to find faces on the screen here To Hank I really appreciated what you had to say Hank about understanding and such and I've been I've been reflecting deeply on those kinds of questions and when when I consider that um Most if not all of our experience in the world was constructed And you know what we call reality is is a is an interpretation assembled by this This physical being given its neurology and chemistry and so forth um and so All of our experience and all of our thought forms and all that we say there is interpretations of You know of our experience interpretations upon interpretations interpretations all the way down and then we have the layer of Not just mine mine, but yours And so at a certain From a certain perspective, we can't possibly understand each other Because we don't have the shared experience. We have the different histories and historicities and tribes and whatnot um And um I'm coming through Wonder whether we even understand what understanding means. So there's a whole bunch of Tango leaps there But the but the beauty and mystery of the life that we live is Attempting to understand each other even though we can't it's attempting to connect across the ultimate mystery Of what it means to be a human being and strange Challenging and beautiful We have to live as if we do understand each other. We have to live as though our experience are are are Similar enough to function of the world and yet not and yet. Yes and yet In that, you know, sort of strange tension between Those two seemingly incompatible views of humanity and reality that I think I think give rise to something fascinating and beautiful And that's the first time I've said that story out loud. So thanks for listening. Thanks gill matt go ahead you know gill that's um, it reminds me of of a thought that I was exploring many many many years ago after reading um um A book by malan kandaira, right that there's this there's this notion of words misunderstood and you know if if If our communication was perfect Then what you knew in your mind and what I knew in my mind would just sort of be additive And it's actually in in the deviation of that understanding That there's a gap that's formed And it's in that gap where actually co-creation happens Right because that's the space between understanding where we can create new understanding and part of the problem That I'm noticing in the world today is Our patience for that gap is narrowing and if you can hold Right open-mindedness at least as I understand this if you can hold a gap. That's really really wide Where you can live together in that common sense making of not only what someone else is saying But also what you're saying right that we're talking about the process of writing as a process of Making sense of our task knowledge as well that that that's where there's real human potential um, and I think that you know what you're saying is just it it's um, it reminds me of this sort of really profound you know place of That the beauty is actually in not understanding And in the figuring And the letting go of what we think we know to move into The next thing that we think we know to move into the next thing that we think we know So I just really appreciate appreciate that and I'm I'm grateful to be reminded of something that I thought of many years ago that I may be lost Because I didn't have my brain operating The way it should be Matt thank you for that. I have no idea how to put this into my brain But thank you for that and for and thank you milan kundair also for it You know the what you're saying about about the gap in this space in the gap is is one of the reasons that I'm so Concerned s last skeptical about AI Mm-hmm, correct the whole That the way we do it now at least is to eliminate the gap And that's I think the wrong direction Um, certainly for things that want to be human like because human life is is living in the gap And I would just tweak one thing you said you said about the things that I that you know in your brain and that I know in my brain But that's that's an information theory of living systems. Yeah And it's not about information in my brain. It's about The electrochemically embodied experience in my body, but which brain is a part For sure an important part, but there's something there's something far beyond the notion of neurological brains and data into into fields within fields Constantly evolving into I mean look we are right now changing each other's neurobiology in real time all the time Uh, that's that's you know standing for matters. You've exposed the secret of the calls Hmm You've exposed the secret of the ogm calls dammit. It's only members here jerry, so it's cool. Okay good Oh, and and offline maybe I'd love to know what is the protocol for inviting new people into this conversation So there's a couple of who I think would be very enriched by it. I'm rich I basically Point easiest way is point them to the ogm site and they can join there or point them to me. Sorry keep going very Thank you Thank you for that. Thank you for that adjustment and I think you know that again reminds me of the conversation of not open global brain but open global mind and mind is mindfulness and and it's beyond the it's beyond the The knowledge it's it's in the It's in the embodiment of our experiences. So thank you. That was great. Thank you for that adjustment That in his great case would say not only is it not only here but here it's here the mind is Is a shared phenomenon. There's no mind. There's our there's mind So several before passing the mic to eric and dug who I see both A couple things one this conversation Although it is a philosophical rabbit hole we can chase forever is a very deep ogm topic and really matters to us And every time we have it it's lovely because we're sort of vibing on How do we talk about this? How do we come together? Whatever? And I was just thinking about the complexification and ken posted the article by adam grant About adam grants new book and he says hey Binary arguments are lose lose like you're never going to win a binary argument because it forces people to pick a camp One way to get through this is to pick through the different ways And and you'll discover that even people who see apparently disagree in a binary way Will agree on a variety of things as you unpack the complexity of issues Which I really like because that's part of what I'm trying to do when I map other people's arguments in my brain I'm trying to get down to The roots and I'll find some of that and share it in the chat But I think there's a there's a whole lot here off to eric and then Doug I think one of the main things I wanted to share is like How difficult for me it is when people try to make experiences the same I often noticed it in workshops or in thinking of like oneness or non-dualism non-duality There's all there's this tendency of wanting to see yeah, we're all the same we all carry the same experience And it often feels really painful to me because It it's both there is a similarity and we share this kind of deep sense of unity There's moments where it's really really beautiful, but I've also noticed that the uniqueness of us Actually makes us also beautiful and diversity is also the uniqueness of being different And that it actually is the richness of life itself Yeah, I think that's one part of what I wanted to say, but I want to keep it brief. So I'll keep it at that Um, thank you so much eric uh, Doug Yeah, I want to build on what gill was talking about. I think it's really important that we keep pushing On understanding how the brain connects to other people Given that, you know, our senses really connect us to 10 or 30 feet in front of us And that's it and yet we imagine that we live in a whole world It's pretty amazing I wanted to cut in here because I just finished reading a book that I found extremely helpful in this regard The title is paleolithic politics by barry cooper And the book is brilliant and beautifully written and it's a movement into the mind of stone age people that's just extraordinary in its depth and its the quality of feeling So I just wanted to say that I have another thing I want to put into my morning ritual here Say, but I'm gonna do it now Um a few days ago. I got a call From a group of people that I worked with in the early first clinton administration Who have been in the office of management of budget and many other federal things. They're four of them with extreme experience in federal government and they want to start an initiative on reinventing government And this group is extremely sophisticated and extremely experienced extremely friendly minded And anything but bureaucratic in their sense of the world And so I'm thinking about it It's kind of a raw seed and we had a first meeting yesterday And basically their intent is really clear their goals are clear, but they have no method And so I'm thinking is it possible to somehow bring it into ogm Uh, and I worry about that because This group is extremely sophisticated and knowledgeable and experienced in so many ways But anyway, it's on my mind. I'm running it around trying to figure out how this might work at the moment It's a it's a seed And I was struck after uh, I mean, we're going back to 1992 and three That this group called me up Based on what we had done then and want to continue and it was an amazing experience just being pulled Back into the past or pulling the past into the present. So I'm Doug. Thank you. And if you like we could set up just a one-off zoom call at their time convenience And just bring a put put the invite on ogm see who shows up and just have a peaceful conversation there because I'm I'm fearing what may be going through the back of your mind is like if we just add them to the ogm google group They will be overwhelmed and like what the hell is this which I can completely empathize with Um So maybe that or or somebody else has a another idea for a sort of a gentle introduction for for how to do this I'm cool that let's go back to the queue. Vincent Judy Dave Hi everyone, this is Vincent um So now that we're on the topic of knowledge and books I thought I'd just share um So my freshman year I took my first semester or a one critic course called how to change the world And the professor's name was Bert Swarzy. He was a X engineer inventor Had written like and filed seven patents for different medical devices He was an entrepreneur and he ended up Founding one of the first like medical scale companies that went public And he then Ended up going into teaching at rpi and he taught these classes How'd she enter world an inventor studio, which was a senior capstone on creativity and on teaching engineering students to think differently to think really big and um His class was really what like changed my entire trajectory of of my life I after his course switched from just doing engineering to studying design innovation society, which is more focused on like problem solving and environmental and social issues And He ended up passing away my sophomore year while I was actually TAing for him and he had started a book and so It's a really interesting story a few of his Teacher's assistance and family members basically took his transcripts and picked that up and ran with it and We're working We're now approaching the sixth anniversary of his passing and we're almost ready to launch Kickstarter for um, basically a prototype of the book called don't do nonsense Make the world better for a billion people And it's a creative workbook And we wanted to capture the kind of essence of his class which really was if I could describe him in like and in one sentence like he Got he got all the students freshman to stand up on the desks and scream This is unacceptable and like bang our fists and yell in the middle of an engineering course the classroom um after we had watched a video about Climate change and basically just got everyone really fired up that like we were the ones who had to be responsible for solving these problems and um, so yeah that definitely resonated with a lot of people and um It's been really interesting now going back and like um as we're writing this and it's a kind of like a collaborative process Uh, like I feel like the world has changed so much in six years because like there's stuff in here that like Six years ago made so much sense and a lot of it is is very relevant But I also feel like the world has become so much more complex that I almost feel like It needs to go further and I think that's why it's like so hard to finish this it feels like it can never be finished um but yeah, um definitely With april's point about like kind of uh, just shutting out all the new information and Kind of just focusing on definitely feeling that uh desire at the moment. So um, yeah, thanks for kind of bringing that up Vincent thank you and because you'd mentioned it before I put a link to burt in the chat And pete has been doing research on the things you just mentioned and putting them in the manamos chat. So There's a nice rich rich trove of things there and april just posted her cover art on the chat, which is awesome Uh, her cover is final and if you go to amazon There's actually a picture of and and like the book isn't available on bookshelves until august. So interesting Uh, let's and I've lost my cue because it just bounced up judy dave eric Thank you I'm excited to be working right now on kind of the world flux because what i'm endeavoring to do is take what we do here To as many different local communities as I can and then within those communities Trying to identify with them They're They're their zones of real interest and so I'm really interested in Specifically the flux piece because all of us are in continual flux and stress to some degree Um, when I was thinking earlier, I wanted to really comment on the notion of oneness also in terms of oneness with all Oneness with other people oneness with the planet and so forth because I think That's another piece of the vital connection That will help all of us be more effective more comfortable The spiritual piece however you choose to pursue it in the sense of belonging to something that's much bigger Than whatever is hitting you in the face today or tomorrow this week So i'm i'm excited that there's some momentum. I think that's available and Just last night we did a sort of It wasn't an ogm call, but we used the protocol of ogm To have what we call the meetup of a group of people That are interested in science and supporting science There was so much energy. It was just astonishing It was a combination of you know short comments by people a couple kickoff speakers for three minutes five minutes and then Dialogue with groups and because it was a group about 20 We split them into three group rooms and then moved people around So we were playing with the model, but the energy of that hour was just phenomenal And so i'm really excited About the ability to take this to many different settings Love that judy. Thank you. Um I love also how how things are propagating through you dendritically one could even say metaphorically Um So let's go. Oops. I lost my cue Dave eric laura Hi everybody Thanks for including me. I don't get to come to these very often. I've got a conflicting meeting Which was canceled today and then very email showed up and it's like, whoa, what a great update. So, uh, serendipity um I am spending most of my time working on something called the global regeneration co-lab um This is something they got spun up by david hodgson A little over a year ago and it's you know, one of these uh, we're caught talking about it as a maker's space for regenerative change makers uh, they're trying to create um, you know Enhanced capacity amongst the folks who are going to create the regenerative future. I guess this way to say it Um, it's been a lot of fun I've kind of involved in community management in a way. I haven't really done before which is both enlightening and a pain in the butt and uh, I feel like I'm learning a lot of things about Ken and I and feel a little bit we're talking about the difference between Systems thinking and systems doing I feel like I'm running into that wall a little bit So, uh, it's been been pretty enjoyable Um, can you tell us just a little bit about what the co-lab is doing because it's been 400 years since I've talked with Hodgson, I need to reconnect with him. This feels like a very ogmi community that that we should sort of build a bridge between And I'm interested in the kinds of things that that y'all are doing in the co-lab that feel resonant here That sounds great. Yeah, I actually agree with a lot. I can I can I'll stick it a link into the Chat to kind of an introductory power point that we've been using which is probably the best overview we've got but um, it is uh, you know, it's a Group of peer-to-peer. It's the idea is peer-to-peer advising. We've got some pretty pretty good facilitators involved in coordination And we're using some Sociocracy to kind of do management Which I actually think both of those are kind of new technologies that are going to change in the game a little bit And then focusing around this idea of regeneration So that it's kind of a north star around that chunk of people involved in agriculture in particular But really a variety wide variety of folks in currencies economics urban design And it turns out one of the things that people are focused on like, you know from my technocratic hat. I'm surprised by is Kind of inner transformation. Like how do you how do you deal with the Inter-regeneration before we do outer regeneration? I'm like, can we just get that whole stuff and just get to the thing but Yeah, April I see Yeah, we begin on that pretty clearly So, you know, and then practically it's it's uh, we're doing lots and lots of zoom meetings We did 354 zoom meetings last year. Whoa And um and slack you know 40 000 plus slack But one of the one of the things is that to me it's like there is energy in the community and it is kind of Self-organizing which is you know, kind of unusual. I think from what I've seen in a lot of these communities going back Many years now. So it's exciting to see to see the energy and to see the motivation And then we've actually seen like initiatives kind of growing out of it and businesses forming and new partnerships and fundraising being done and Kind of things that would indicate the growth of that next stage So it's a little bit encouraging that you can't actually be talking about creating Healthy soil from which regenerative initiatives will sprout And we're actually seeing some sprouts. So that's kind of fun Yeah I was gonna plus I was gonna say you should probably talk to Dave Oh and class has been playing some it's good to see you. I've seen you Now David actually invited me to this group, which I wasn't aware of and um What it really Pointed out is the need to find an umbrella, you know to to connect because there's so many Parallel efforts that would be so much more powerful if we combine them and in particular At this time We need to engage the political process, right? Because they are in the middle of making massive changes in the department of agriculture and USDA And it will impact the agricultural sector And it's just very important to be at the table at this time And I just want to point out that we're One of the things we're doing on the side is trying to figure out how to explain ogm water ogm superpowers or secret sauce and One thing that we're not doing really yet that we just mentioned here is bridge building across organizations across a movement Not to homogenize them or unify them, but rather to link them up and turbo charge them And I'd love to have anybody's ideas on what that means to you how to implement it How do we articulate it all those kinds of things because I think that that there's I see ogm is pretty meta. We're not out to find the best solution to climate change mitigation We're out to map all the groups that are doing great work on climate change mitigation Help them connect help share out what they know help evolve those arguments to convince more people that it matters things of that nature, but it's we're sort of As my Imagination of this goes we're kind of meta trying to build the bridges and the connections So any any insights on that are extremely welcome as we figure out what this is go ahead class Yeah, we are We are moving into a prototyping phase And collectively really it's happening everywhere now in order to prototype a project you have to have input from all As from all sides, you know a 360 input And to organize that is probably the single most important next step You know to bring these available resources together and set up a prototype project somewhere in a community level And then and then map this out and make it reproducible Thank you chair and they're I mean this is back to the the systems doing thing I mean I feel like we actually there are some things happening that are in this realm um I mean one is you know just the the slack ability to join two different slacks at a channel So we've got a couple of like the with the the permaculture co-lab and grc and for sharing a channel Which is around the platform design stuff Pete so you know the idea is that could we have some kind of what's it mean to have a shared platform So that conversation is going on and then we're kind of trying to deliberately do What's it sociocracy calls a double linking where you have people Like people from across the networks joining each other's network and then using that as the kind of connection So it's like the you know So that's one of the reasons I was joining chico chat Uh Lauren was to try to try to double link a little bit and we've been doing that with you know The region network and other groups as well. Of course everybody's on a different server You know you guys are on what is this matter matter most matter most region checks on discord We're on slack and a bunch of people are mighty You know So it's it's fascinating and then the the other one that we've been playing with that I'd love to to try more is just kind of signing mo use like there's a we have a strategic partnership with you And all it really means is we agree right? We're going to support each other and we know about you we support each other There's no other obligation kind of but it feels like that statement, you know, would be would be useful So anyway, I would love to hear more Ideas for how to actually do that, but I I agree lots that it's really important And I think we can do things and we have some things that are underway Love that um, thank you back to our queue eric lauren matt Yeah, um Yeah, I've been thinking what I wanted to say I um Just a moment. I I wanted to share a video. That's one thing and it started when I looked it up So it's a weird effect. Um, I'll share it now. So this is um A video. It's like a mixture of one part is like a video Uh, my own edit from a video that I made with a illustrator photographer videographer And the second part is a brainstorm sessions, which I also put into a kind of collage Uh, when I was dancing and I was dancing when, um It was like 15 years ago It's also when my project started And I um, I'm kind of thinking like how to approach my life right now I've been having talks with Vincent um And I noticed what he's doing is really close to what I want to do and um And he's moving forward really quickly and I'm for me. I'm going really slow and I'm also dealing with mental health issues. I'm dealing with Trying to find stability trying to find a new place to live So many open loops And I share this video I think because it kind of expresses also how I felt at that time and I still do now It's like dealing with all this complexity There's no Still point. It seems like to have this space where Everything keeps on challenging me and it's kind of my brain but it's also the way that my life is kind of structured around me, it seems and Part of me is saying yeah, just take your time for yourself and it's really difficult for me to do that um because another part of me wants to move forward and um And this video is called light play dark play because it's also expressing this kind of thing in me Like I felt the deepest sense of wonder and the deepest sense of happiness in my life But I've also uh dealt with the most challenging issue somehow um and I think a lot of people in this group have had different levels of crisis and mental health issues and stuff like that in their lives and also related to dealing with this complexity And in two hours, I will start a course on active hope That's like Joanna Macy's work and facing the dark and For me a lot of it is also like just how my um Are the other world issues also affect my inner world issues and how it affects how I believe in the world how I believe in my own life And I'm really like searching really deeply. How do I do this? And how do I step away from this kind of weird dynamics in my life where Yeah, just How do how do I get into a groove that this will evolve and that I can get my money to What I really want to do and not trying to search all the time for this kind of job that I might do next to my projects And it's just way too much all of it um Yeah, there there's plenty more there that I could say But I wanted to be open about it and honest because I also would like to find a place where we could support each other and And find support on that level where it's the deepest and the most difficult Yeah, so yeah, that's my sharing here Um, I'd like us just to go in the silence to hold what you've just given us Which is lovely. I'll bring us back out Thank you, Eric. Um, if anybody would like to offer something back to Eric, there's no Need for that, but um cool Eric, I think that you you're right. A lot of us are on Very parallel quest years and a lot of us have hit lots of road bumps and blocks in our journeys and are trying to wrestle through how to do that and a lot of us could Really use pulling with each other and helping each other through this so Thank you for putting that on the table that way and I think we need to spend more time On the question you just put in front of us like how do we do that for each other? Thank you I do want to offer something back to Eric. Um, and it touches back on something April was talking about earlier When I was 50, I went into a very deep depression I had a wonderful 50th birthday in the next day. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing I just left to 10 years of work that I didn't know where I was where I was going to go and I was depressed for an entire year I lost 40 pounds. I wasn't eating It was really hard people thought I had gotten really sick because I was so skinny and I didn't have any energy to do anything. I you know, I didn't Go out didn't talk to friends And the day after my 51st birthday I woke up and I have this voice that appears in my My life now and then it rarely speaks more than a few words and I can actually physically locate it It's behind and up to the left and And these words came into my head on my fifth the day for my 51st birthday and they said what if I'm actually enough and During that depression I was living with I'm not enough. I can't I don't know what to do with this world I have a bunch of shit. I don't want I don't have a lot of stuff. I do want And it just feels like what the fuck have I done? You know, I'm 50 years old and I don't know where I am I don't know what I'm doing And that little shift of what if I'm enough Allowed me to come back into the world of saying I'm not enough for the whole world, but I'm enough for my life And so I just want to offer to you that you know I see you here and you're enough to be here and you're enough for our lives Thank you Thank you. Ken I'd like to offer an eric. I know we've just met. Um, I'm really happy to meet you and and I will not profess to have the answer but um, this is one of those moments and this is not about My books, but there are so much of what you've talked about was one of the like When I was for the last 25 plus years like been looking around saying Like even the world today, it's not working For a lot of people and it goes beyond. I think systemic. They're clearly systemic injustices and stuff, but it's this It's this whose life are we living Who's and the way that I've put it and this is all spelled out in the introduction Which I'm happy to share with you guys now as a pdf, but whatever um I I term it in I phrase it in terms of script and like each and every one of us is Living a script a life that's been scripted Whether or not we know it and you know one script is not better than the other We all have our scripts and I think it's the kind of like norms and rules and the way we're socialized But it's also I think the promise of the world we're told will live in if we follow these certain rules And I feel like what's happening more and more is as we grow up and we see the younger you go the more you find it of people saying The world I'm inhabiting is not at all the world. I was promised I would I would get to if I followed the rules And now we're in this really interesting Space and we can call it a bardo or the liminal space lots of different things But like it's it's like we're stuck between two branches on two different trees and we're trying to swing from one branch to the other And the tree that we've been on is this old script where more is better Your career is about getting a job and climbing a ladder People are not to be trusted You know there are lots of overlaps and and each of these links with the different superpower that's in the side and I'm looking at this saying we are You and and I think many people in their own ways are recognizing that this old script is really really out broken It's outdated. It's no longer fit for purpose But as Jerry likes to say it has a really long tail So we recognize that we need to get to this new place of writing a new script In which you are the author of your script not someone else not society and each of us is the author of our own script But we're stuck in that we're still filtering a lot of decisions through this old Script and it's still what largely society is stuck in But more and more people are saying I need to write my own script I need to be the author of my own life and and my life needs to fit together differently And it's really hard. I think to be in the early stages of that because there aren't that many examples or data points to To point to But on the one hand, I just want to underscore like you're not you're so not alone in terms of This feeling of frustration and I think a lot a lot of people more every day in their own way I don't mean to say that you're not you're unique but but this sense of saying like we need a new script And each of our scripts on this call will look and feel different And part of what I've put forth in the book is for me It's this notion of a flux mindset which is in distinct contrast to There's the old script and the new script There's the old mindset and the flux mindset There is this it's a holistic shift in how we relate to change but change on many different levels and this notion that it to echo ken and echo dav That it really comes from the inside out And so I also want to applaud you for you're clearly working on this from the inside out And I wish more people were able to do that Thank you. Go ahead. I would argue that my understanding of flux is that Our journey is not the destination. It's a journey You know, it's about the journey not the destination. We can't define the destination to the point where We are inviting disappointment And I'll just add maybe the obvious which is this thing we're doing right now is the journey Which I love Um, so let's go back to the queue for a second. Lauren, Matt, Klaus Hey everybody, April is so nice to see you And uh a big kuku to cappuccino. It's so nice to have you again. It's been a while um And yeah, what an amazing conversation. Eric, thank you so much for just being vulnerable and sharing and that was amazing and on David, it was so nice that you're talking about systems doing and mo use it's so fortuitous because um Next monday, we're going to be trying to design uh mo use for our community to try to increase the Grants that we can get and work together. So we're actually co-designing um mo use next monday Um to to try to do this. We don't know exactly how to do it, but that's kind of the subject and we're going to Work on this together So that's kind of uh it's like kind of a Boring work thing, but it's the doing that kind of leaves the foundation And then uh after that a kiko lab on monday Uh at midnight, which is super late for me. We have you have 13 interns coming in and 10 of them are from texas and We're trying to onboard them and we're not really sure how and so we thought we'd have um a sense making jam and experiment with our kind of uh Um We're just coming in and seeing how we can sense make on the fly around the um because i'm sure that You know since they're from texas they've been kind of traumatized by the recent um storm so we thought we'd have the sense making jams and um around the the The the texas disaster and seeing how how we can come together to um make sense of the situation and also show these um Intern to our more like Who are more like consultants because they're so um competent. They're more competent than we ever imagined So they're actually like phds and they're getting their MBAs so they're It's more than we thought we ever hoped for so we're trying to lead them through that and anyone who wants to come So it's a midnight ct, which is what time is that? Uh pacific three p.m. Six p.m um eastern is three p.m. Three p.m. california time and uh i'll try to uh um post my zoom In uh, that's what that's where it's uh taking place So we're not we're not spending like hours and hours planning This we're just going to go in and do sense making on the fly. So Did you say this is tomorrow lauren? No, no, no, this is next monday and that is the Thank you for clarifying Uh thursday monday the eighth so midnight uh ct six p.m So it's like at the night it's our usual call but at the end When it's it basically after work for the texas people Because they they're normal people who work like regular jobs. So Thank you This is our cue and i'll point out that we're 15 minutes from the top from the half hour and several of us have to bounce to a Different call to do some some planning and some work for ogm But if you're interested in the organization of ogm in the structure of it, you can join those calls Just let me know and i'll add you to the steering group Uh conversations we have regular calls Tuesdays at the old time at 7 a.m. Pacific which is a little early for some people but but we're busy trying to figure out how to Put the handrails in place around ogm and how to get us structured as a As an entity and all of those kinds of things and you're welcome to join us on those calls Uh, so let's come and we're not going to make it through all these people because we don't have enough time But matt claus scott Um, I guess i'll i'll try to be really as efficient as i can I got thousands of things on my brain and I guess that's what these what Going later in the in the process. Um, the first thing is um, I'll put it in the chat, but I've been reading the inheritance project project Writing from the Atlantic It's really about Black history and how we've we it doesn't exist and it needs to be written And so the inheritance project is doing some pretty amazing things Also in the same Atlantic art magazine that really introduced the inheritance project there was something about There was an article about how we We We somehow let go of the idea of a nervous breakdown And a nervous breakdown is when you when you reach your limit, right? When you reached the end of your nerves and you need to let them rest and you need to go away and We sort of professionalized it into well, you have to get a gotta go see your doctor and you got to go get your pills versus, you know, sometimes You know, sometimes eric You just need to take a break a pause and rest and allow your nerves to Rebuild and there's been a lot of evidence in the article about people who Have done amazing things after they've given them themselves a chance to regenerate and I love this idea of You know, sort of regeneration Not only as a concept for For the earth but for all of us and I think that there's a process of regeneration I'd also love to comment, you know, april on this this the paradigm of You know the old and and the new and the swinging from sort of past scripts into Future scripts. I I want to make sure I'm kind of fitting into You know the comment about how intelligent are and and why some of our paleo Paleolithic ancestors were that sometimes it's also about swinging to branches that used to exist that we have since let go of and we didn't realize that we were giving up, you know, things of beauty and so how do we Regeneration is not just about the creation of the new but sometimes it's about Rebuilding the things that we've given up on I was down in florida in the intercoastal driving a boat and You run into sandbars if you're not careful They pop up all over the place and if you're an idiot you just kind of turn your motor on and you try to go forward And all you do is get yourself further into the muck sometimes it's just about stepping back and You know kind of recalibrating where you are and where you want to go So I'd sort of leave that there on some very practical levels. I'm trying to build Some og me type things into a corporate client. It's proving difficult on two regards one is Getting them to to sort of see the value of the complexity of what we're we're trying to build And to trust that you can't just prototype aspects, but you really have to Think systemically and build systemically even if you're testing and learning Related to that as on the other side is you know and A couple of people on this call as I was like I'd love to introduce some of this thinking into that world and I was Caught off guard and surprised but now Humbled by the fact that people were like Not sure I actually want to have that conversation. I'm not sure they're the ones Who should benefit from the value of what we're creating here and I found that to be Maybe that's a shorthand of what what was said, but I found that to be a really both wise and provocative kind of stance And still trying to process what that what that looks like And out of that conversation there was sort of this Notion that vincent brought up that I've been ruminating on which is if you want to decentralize power You have to centralize coordination And I think that's to me what ogm is Attempting to do is what is the operating system and the the The ability to do to have interoperability Enable kind of these decentralized Sovereign entities to come together in ways that actually Amplify, you know amplify value and allow all of us to take our experiences and you know, create what's next So that's my um, those are my thoughts. Um, and thanks for your time Um, thanks matt so I was just typing in the chat. Let's go and we're not going to make it through everybody claus scott craig yeah, I know so many things I've posted a link to A conversation that happened yesterday from berkeley. They have the edible schoolyard project which The most amazing thing about it is that it took place It is the history of of how black farmers have been systematically disenfranchised by a white system And it's heartbreaking to listen to but it's also uh, uh, something that Like for cherry was saying earlier challenges white The white class, you know land owners and Existing power structures. So to have these students Um, do this research project is really An amazing conversation that would have been impossible not too long ago um I'm we're starting a new project. Um With the business climate leaders. I've been member of the citizen climate lobby Which is a political organization that is developing citizen lobbies lobbyists. We have over 200 000 members and I'm the second leader after culture here. I just put a link in And the remarkable thing about this organization is that we we are divided into sectors where you have retired executives basically leading these various sectors and what I keep noticing is that The focus of business Is now shifting to where there is an acceptance that soil that that that carbon sequestration is a must Right, so the the science has advanced the acceptance of science Has advanced to the points that yes, where there is too much carbon in the atmosphere. It has to come out but all of these conversations that you see in the electric in the energy sector in the Conservatives sectors and so on is focused on mechanical ways of removing carbon out of the atmosphere billion dollar investments To to to do that And there is an an avoidance of talking about soil or photosynthesis as I define it It's the only practical ready to go to scale method to actually do that. So so that's that's I'm sorry. I'm sort of on this mission now to to To create a conversation within ccl and bcl, you know, just got green lighted to do that to to Take awareness to the physics the laws of physics here that mean we got to do photosynthesis Then I'm you know one one other project that's coming to fruition. I've been working in the mr. Sierra Club for some time these are long-term projects with me six months to get there but What what ken was posting something yesterday about the other side of the hill movie there there is um There is a method now to where you screen the documentary that has a specific focus point and then create a panel discussion about this So we have done this several times now this to kiss the ground and I have another one coming up with the kiss the ground here Where we have the president of the Sierra Club Engaged the two directors of the film plus the founder of the organization And we are addressing the 3.7 million members of the Sierra Club To understand why we are focusing on rich and with the agriculture and what they can do uh for as eaters to To engage and to support the development of these markets Um, and so the the other side of the hill is also a wonderful little documentary that could be used to stimulate a conversation about rural community development You know and to bring in members of congress to have very specific local community level discussions about what our needs to make this work So if if anyone is interested in doing this kind of thing i'm i'm happy to support them I love that class. Thank you We're pretty close to the time when I know I have to bounce and I'm torn here part of me says Let's leave the the call open and let whoever wants to be host I'll pass host privileges The other part of me just says we're not going to make it through everybody every call We should just wrap our call now any strong feelings one way or the other Raise your hand if you want to if you really want to stay on the call and continue the conversation That's good. So why don't we Just take a moment. I'm going to put what I have as the queue left with so apologies to scott craig george dug ingrid and me We and by the way my heuristic here from an early recommendation on the ojm calls is I'd go from the bottom up on my grid because as people join the call late Because at the beginning I was starting from the top and I was always getting the same few early early early risers So if you're late in the process because you were early to the call, which is a weird penalty for For being eager to be in the call, but I can mix this up And if you really want to go or go earlier have to drop off just ping me or dm me or whatever and I'll make sure you're in the queue So that you know, there's no reason to worry about it. And it's not that I have a personal animosity toward anybody here I'm very grateful for everybody who's on the call Anyone have a last word for this call just in the spirit of wrapping this call Just it's so great to hear from all of you and I wish I could have heard more from those people who spoke and even more from those who didn't so scott I'm with you on that scott that you want to jump in On my update this week was going to be very very short. I'll follow up on my flipping my screen to black and white So I have flipped my phone screen to black and white to make it less attractive And the rest of the real world more attractive because of the color And it's working for you. It sounds like I am using my phone one and a half to two hours less per day damn The power of color the allure of shiny objects We are at heart just frogs monkeys Monkeys monkeys more of all monkeys have like lots more going on than frogs. I think Um Yeah, according to the frogs That's true. Let's do the frog lobby says to the opposite Very I know we need to wrap up. You didn't tell him who we who we spoke with this morning Oh, that's right. Well, we didn't we didn't actually get to speak with her, but we were on a call with jane goodall Who was who was is 87 And was so lucid and so on and at the beginning gave this beautiful sort of opening journey into The topic which included, you know, she started working on chimpanzees and realized that their habitats were going to be destroyed because the people right next door Had Out of desperation were busy eating up that habitat unless we solved their problems There were going to be no more chimps anyway. So she's got a whole bunch of other initiatives, but she was wonderful Thank you for reminding me april Can highly recommend jane goodall and her her organization is called roots and shoots Roots and shoots. There's the jane goodall institute, which is for organizations and sort of the macro piece But roots and shoots is for primarily children anywhere from preschool all the way up to the age of 28 post university And there are thousands and thousands of chapters You should meet I'm not meeting because I have to bounce So let's uh, let's wrap the call and thank you so much everybody for being here. This is terrific. Really appreciate all of you