 One thing to imagine and it's one thing to live it like there are just so many things that can go wrong with like food because it has to be the bar for it is so high and cool stuff. Thank you. Thanks for Vanessa for hopping on from a omsom. Is it omsom? Yeah, it's omsom. You got it omsom. I, you know what? I completely fell in love with your brand even more after knowing the meaning of omsom. Can you tell me a little bit more about the meaning of omsom? It's such a smart name. Thank you. Yeah, it's actually, it's really funny. Omsom is based on a Vietnamese word omsom. And it's a phrase that means basically noisy, rambunctious or loud. And it's actually kind of a critical word. It's like what our parents would use to scold us when Kim and I were being like just rosses kids, like, you know, making a lot of noise in the back of the car and them being like, be quiet. They'd be like, oh, you're so omsom. And we kind of were like, oh, we love that energy. Like we kind of want to reclaim that word and make it our own because there's this model minority stereotype of Asian-Americans being kind of like quiet or docile. And we were like, that's not us. We're omsom and we're proud of that. And let's like have our brand energy really be based on that life experience of ours. It's such a it's such a unique experience that is I personally feel is very true to our roots. Like I I'm an Asian. My family's like that. We have a big family as well. So every time we come together, it feels like that that energy is like it's super. But yes, you miss it. You're like, oh, all these people just yelling around the place. And it's just like, it's all just yelling. Like people just yelling all the time. That reminds me of that. So which is really cool. It's such a nostalgic feeling and moment in my life that I'm like, wow, it reminds me of that. And then knowing the fact that you do, you have a consumer product that does Asian food, bring it back to our own table. I'm like, wow, what what better name can you find? Some out of that. Thank you. Yeah, so yeah, thank you. And by the way, thanks so much for for hopping on this interview. I know you're super busy. I when I first like I was telling you earlier when I saw your brand, I'm like, oh my goodness, I must meet Vanessa. Because like I was sharing with you, there's a lot of people that are when they're in the food space is very like traditional food space. And it's such a fragmented world where there's also the tech world of food that's brewing, but it's such a disconnected world. So I want to be able to kind of learn from you, connect with you and see what you're doing and how you're growing your brand. Because we have some of our audience, they are building their own brand as well, hot sauces, barbecue sauces. Bison, right? So kind of wanted to know how you guys started. I know your brand is still super young and you're not in the food space before you're super young yourself, you and your sister created this brand. Can you tell me a little bit more about like what was the inspiration behind this brand, aside from the name, of course? Yeah, oh, absolutely. So I mean, Omsom was really born out of my experiences, my sisters, my seniors, my sisters, my co-founder. It was born, it was born out of our experiences going to like the mainstream grocery store, your whole foods, your Kroger, whatever. Going into store and looking at this like sad selection of jars and bottles that were designated, you know, the Asian food products. And we're like, that has nothing to do with us. Like we knew that like we did not feel represented by those products or we didn't feel like they were did right by us. And as time went on, we saw, you know, as adults, this the shelf still looks the same and yet appetite and excitement about Asian food had just blown up. And we were like, well, nobody is being delighted by those products. It doesn't honor and celebrate the communities and cuisines that are being represented. So we really started Omsom from that place of wanting to create a brand that educated on the multitudes within Asian America that put the community front and center in everything that they did. And we thought we were kind of the right people to do that. So I quit my job in management consulting at Bain. My sister was working for VCs and startups. She quit her job and we got together to start Omsom. And that was that was a little over two years ago. It's insane. You guys kind of started this throughout COVID. Yes. Yeah, we launched in May of 2020, which is like one year ago. Yeah. Do you find it as being at the right time at the right place? Is did COVID play any role in how you guys structured or built the business? Yeah, well, I think we were we were lucky. I mean, we had always planned to launch direct to consumer, which was great. So on our own e-commerce website, there were tons of challenges related to it from like logistic supply chain standpoint. And of course, we were really scared about launching like, I don't know if you remember May of 2020, but like, nobody knew what tomorrow would bring, right? Like we were like, will we see, will we be allowed to go outside? Like people were like literally hunkered down in their apartments. And we felt a lot of fear. We were like, well, maybe people don't have the mental capacity to learn about a new brand. Maybe people are just so overwhelmed right now that like this is going to totally fall flat. And ultimately, we just decided, you know what, like we built, we put so much heart and soul into this brand. It's a really challenging time, but people need a little bit of joy. They need a sense of home. They need a sense of togetherness. And we feel like our brand and our products and cooking at home is going to bring that to them. So we ultimately decided to launch despite all the challenges and kind of the opaqueness of it all. And did it did it serve you guys well? Did you feel like that it has helped or not really? Oh, my gosh, I mean, our first year, I mean, a lot of things have played into kind of our journey so far. But our first year has been really beyond anything we could have imagined. We've sold out seven times the first time in the first 72 hours, which was like just beyond we had no idea was really going to going to hit that quickly. But we're so lucky for our brand and our story to resonate with people. It's like been so meaningful just to see like the Asian American community reach out to us, tell us what how what we're doing, what it means to them. And also getting our being being able to tell our story and all these different platforms and different, you know, press outlets. It's been it's been cool like being like, yeah, we're two Vietnamese American sisters, we're young female founders, and this is who we are and we're unapologetic and we're loud and proud. That is so cool when you said that you you sold out seven times because at the end of the day, when when you're not a CBG owner, like you you wonder like, why the hell would you sell out? Like, how does that even work? Right? Like, can you tell me a little bit more about that? And obviously, there's going to be you guys have a limited batch run and obviously production issues and so on so forth. Like, share with us a little bit more behind the scenes of of of how what was the logic? What was the thesis when you went about and what has happened? And kind of what you learned from that or like some of the pitfalls or crazy stories, even. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, I mean, like it's so funny because like food operations and like management of a food business, like you think you know what you're getting into. You're like, oh, there will always be these headaches. And like it's one thing to imagine and it's one thing to live it. Like there are just so many things that can go wrong with like food because it has to be the bar for it is so high and we have such and like our commitment to cultural integrity and quality is so high. But and that complicates things, right? Like our sourcing of ingredients is really complex because, for example, another Asian food brand might be like, OK, I have five products, you know, a Korean one, a Japanese one, Chinese one, whatever. And I'm going to source one kind of chili from China and put it all of them. They're all different amounts of spicy, so I'll just change that. And that'll be that they have to source one one type of chili at Omson because we're so committed to cultural integrity. We actually have a really high bar on different things. So one is we work with who we call taste makers. So these are acclaimed chefs from each of these cuisines where all these backgrounds are from these countries who actually work closely with us to develop the products themselves. And they have such a high bar because they work in restaurants. So they're like this better taste like I just made it in my kitchen. And that's why our products kind of have like that restaurant quality flavor. And then in terms of sourcing, we have to source, you know, for with the chili example, we source like five different kinds of chili because we have a chili from Thailand. We have two types of chili from China. We have a type of chili from Korea. And that's just like the way that we approach things is like the flavors need to be spot on, or at least they need to be really made with that intention and that care. So that's amazing. But then on the other side of that is it just makes things more complex. And, you know, if something kind of falls through, it's not like we can just pull any chili from like wherever and substitute it. Right. Like that's that's usually kind of what causes some of the stockouts or like just supply chain delays and stuff from covid. I you know, I had this open a whole kind of worms. I'm like, how the hell did you even manage to do this? Because first of all, I'm not sure if everyone knows like so to input a let's say container to let's say Vancouver, where I where I live, it used to be like a 40 feet high cube, maybe like three, four thousand dollars. Now, twelve hundred dollars, twelve, twelve thousand dollars times three times four. And on top of that, logistical timelines, three, four months, you have to book the container before you even have things to actually put on the container. That's just what I'm seeing. I kind of imagine for you guys, is that the same issue? Oh, 100 percent. We're seeing things like that across the board with our with our packaging, for example. So this is an example of what our product products looks like. Like this film, which is like the outside of the pouch, like the lead time on that like went like three acts over the course of covid at certain points. So we would like plan. We'd be like, OK, we'll take X number of weeks to come in. And then like next month, it went from like it went from like six weeks to like 10 weeks, and we're like, OK, well, we're planning on having it now. But now we have to wait four weeks for it to arrive for whatever reason. So yeah, oh, absolutely stuff like that happens all the time. It's insane. You guys are not only a sourcing company, a direct to consumer company, but just the company as well. It's insane when you talked about sourcing ingredients from different parts of the world, doesn't mean you have to travel to those places or do you have already have connections within those places where you can actually draw from? We have not. Well, definitely with covid, we couldn't really do much traveling, although we would have loved to. There were times where we did pre covid, mostly actually around the country, meeting folks like in California, where they import a lot of this stuff. And and at times, I literally had my parents go because it would be like a Vietnamese supplier that only spoke Vietnamese. So like I'd be like, hey, I know you're going to California to see like our grandparent, our grandparents like want to do me a quick favor and drive an hour to Pasadena and talk to this person for me. Like we've had all kinds of things like that happen just to to bring this to life. And we wouldn't we wouldn't compromise. So we had to really bend over backwards on some of it. But yeah, we we at times will source ten different versions of the same ingredient and taste them all alongside our taste makers to really pick the best one. And and yeah, that's and we've done tastings with our parents as well, like blind taste tests. It's really fun, though, it's the product development is hard, but it's really fun. I can imagine even the sourcing and I think like what makes you guys so special and me so gravitated towards your brand is because it you guys are so authentic. And every part of your journey is such a good story to tell. Even for you guys, when, you know, the borders open up, you guys can travel around the world just to source your ingredients. That was such a great content. Oh my gosh, amazing. That was so cool, right? Getting spices and the flavors in, like, for example, India. That would be so cool. That would be so cool. Yeah, so I'm super stoked to to continue your journey on that. Now, when you guys are creating this, I know that you guys raised a bunch of funding for this as well. You guys are still in your seed round or have you guys raised your series? Yeah, we're in our seed round and we are a really small team still. Right now we are five full time about to be six full time. But when we launched and even for six months after launch, we were still three people, myself, my sister and our marketing director. So, yeah, we've been kind of like slowly growing the team. But in general, we've been really just thoughtful about it. And we really just first and foremost want to center our community in everything that we do. And that's like something that we definitely layer on to thinking about fundraising is like, OK, do we have the right investors that are really going to allow us to prioritize our community? So, for example, over 50 percent of our cap table is comprised of either BIPOC, LGBTQIA or a female founder or female investors. And that was a lot of work because, you know, a lot of the big checks don't come from people. All these backgrounds, they come from, to be frank, white men and older white men. And so we really kind of went out of our way to make sure that we had a table that a cap table that was representative of the future that we want to see. Is raising funding part of your strategy to like that's your growth? This is what you want to do. Take on VC capital and just continue to grow like that. And no, it's a really great question. And obviously, everybody has their own approach. But I I think that in general, like I really value optionality, like I value investors and them giving us a perspective. But I also think at the end of the day, like, you know, I definitely want to we Kim and I still want to be in control of what we're building because, again, we care about the Asian American community. We don't really want to hand that over to, you know, somebody else. So that's definitely a big part of it for us. And then in terms of the strategy long term, like I just think, you know, for a food business, too, like you see a lot of food businesses that not like a software, like a delivery or, you know, something like delivery app. That's a little bit different. It's ultimately software at the end of the day is the product. For us at the end of the day, product, the product is food. And so I just think I've seen brands just like raise too much and then feel like so much pressure to grow so quickly. And then it ruins their company culture. And I think it just puts it puts a lot of pressure on what could have been great companies. And so we're being very diligent and thoughtful about that. I love that. That's and that's precisely why I asked that question, because I feel like you guys are so authentic. You're so authentic. And I think that's that's what will make you guys super successful. I think I'm so fun. I I'm very inspired. So thank you. Thanks for that. Thank you. Yeah, of course. I when I'm thinking about creating a brand like yours, I just feel like there's going to be a and really big need of capital, especially when we're talking about the production of such a big, like how many what's your M.O.Q. What's your minimum order quantity that you need to create for each? Yeah, so it has actually it's it's going to increase. But I mean, when we started, it was pretty reasonable. Like some that's that's quite a bit. And then the reason why I ask you that question is because for someone who's just starting out, they don't they're not raising capital to start their own sauce company. A lot of them, they're just making it from their home. I'm just wondering, like, what can they learn from from you? What can they take away from something that you have learned? Maybe a pitfall that you've made that you wish you hadn't made to begin with? Hmm. Wow. So many so many mistakes and incredible learnings along the way. You know, I would just say that I would say that there is no one right way or one right journey to build a company. And I think there's a lot of what I see is like founders comparing themselves to other founders and being like, well, they raise this much or they grew this quickly. And there are so many factors that play into it. And the outcome can look the same for a lot of companies, and they can take really different routes there. So for some companies, like raising anything beyond a family and friends around doesn't make sense for other companies. You know, it might make a lot more sense, depending on the product or the brand or the go to market strategy. And I think that making sure to understand like what makes your product different, what makes your strategy different than others and therefore why you're going to make the decisions that you're going to make, whether whether pertains to manufacturing or capitalization or marketing, hiring, for example, all these decisions should come to like one core strategy. And it'll be very different for every brand. It will make that it'll different strategies will make sense depending on the founders, depending on the product. So, you know, I would say, you know, definitely learn from other people, but don't compare yourself and pull back the layers instead of just like looking at like, well, they're at this milestone. I'm at this milestone. Really try to understand, well, why are they at that milestone and why are you here and like, what does that mean for your next step? I just see a lot of founders get down to themselves or make decisions from a place of comparison, as opposed to from a place of really deeply understanding who they are first. Like, what is who is their brand? What is their product and what mean does it meet and who is it serving? Like, you really got to understand that deeply. And then the decisions become a lot easier. I love that. I love that because I think like part of your background allows you to really understand the importance of that. It might seem like a very simple journey to be able to find yourself and to be able to be so confident to own that and to actually put in like all your dollars under your own thinking and your who you are. But then it is actually very, very, very difficult to to to find that. But to be able to stress the importance of that is super important because it leads your marketing, it leads your culture, it leads basically how you raise your business is totally on point on that. Do you want to share some of your playbooks that you found successful on how you first launched, like specifically direct to consumer? Is there a playbook that you can share with us that you're like, hey, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's so many learnings that we've had. And I think one of the things that I I think or I get a lot of questions about in general is like, OK, there are so many brands out there. How do I cut through the noise? Like that that's the number one challenge for a brand that's young and just putting themselves out into the world. And I think there's a couple of things that I think are extremely important. So the first is really understanding who you exist for and being very clear and relentless about that because it's very enticing as a founder to be like, well, if I just am for more people, then there's more heads that could buy my product, which equals more sales, which equals better, more successful company. But when you're first starting out, it is so important to be speaking to an audience clearly that is has a limited scope because then you'll if you don't do that, you'll never be able to hit that kind of like critical mass of like chatter about your brand. You'll just get diluted and spread out. There will be a voice here, a voice here, but it'll never be compounding. So I think it's extremely important to be diligent about understanding who you exist for to start and then think about how can I best serve this audience? What are their values? What do they need? And people say like, I know people talk about this a lot, but I think for consumer brands, it does feel hard because you feel like you're just like limiting yourself. But I think to start, you're actually shooting yourself in the foot because if you exist for everybody, you really exist for nobody. And some of the best brands have done this really well. Like, you know, RX Bar is, I think, a really great example of a brand that really focused on the CrossFit community, got that community to love RX Bar, really stand it. And then they could halo out with that community as their brand anchor. So, you know, that's why I mean, for us, it's it's been a no-brainer from day one, like we exist for Asian Americans and we speak to them directly and we make our products with them in mind. But that's not to say that non-Asians don't love Omsom. They do. In fact, they might even love us more because they see that, you know, the Asian community also really enjoys Omsom's products. So that's definitely core to how we think about things. Yeah, that's so cool. I love that. And this is exactly what I preach all the time to. It's in the way it's like kind of cliche when it comes down to it because everyone sees the same thing. But I feel like it's the more that you're in the game and the more businesses and different projects that you you touch. And the more people you talk about, it seems like this is like truly the the secret in a sense. But it's much harder. And yeah, like in execution, I find that people really find resistance to it because they really feel like they're limiting their brand. Totally. It's like flipping it on its feet kind of like it's just reversing. So which is really interesting. When you're doing direct to consumer, I do have a really big question is like, how do you figure out the unit economics? It's it's one of the biggest difficulty to figure out. Do you guys run ads on Facebook? Like, do you have to figure out your average order value, like your CPL and all those numbers? Is that something that's top of mind for you guys? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, you know, I given my background in management consulting, like I really live and breathe numbers. And I think I think the strongest businesses are run by leaders. That well, not not fully. I think there's many different types of really impactful leaders. But I think in terms of like decision making and steering the ship, I really advocate for an approach that starts with kind of a foundational understanding of the numbers and the analytics and layers on a very high high EQ, highly empathetic view of the customer and and bringing marrying those two is really how we make our decisions. So to your point, unit economics is a super important kind of field of metrics that we pay a lot of attention to. So, yeah, with my background in management consulting, I would say I really prioritize that. So, yeah, we definitely have a view of like our costs for each unit broken down across like labor, across ingredients, across packaging, you know, if you add on shipping and fulfillment, how much is that? And for us, most of our growth has been actually completely organic. So 90 percent of our growth to date has really been from word of mouth and from press, which has been so amazing to see. But we have played around a little bit with some other kind of more performance marketing areas. But we are actually hiring right now a director of growth. So that'll start to scale up more, which is super exciting. Hopefully we find the right person. But yeah, lots, lots of learnings in terms of analytics and unit economics every every month at Omson. There's just like a whole new kind of flood of data that we get to play with. Totally. It's really cool. Was PR and organic your strategy right from the get go? Yeah, absolutely. So that's what I mean by don't look at other brands because, you know, one brand might be like, well, my growth isn't 90 percent organic, but maybe they were so focused on ads and that was their strategy. Right. So and same with us, like we could say the same. Like, oh, we haven't, you know, figured out X, Y, Z in terms of performance. It's like, yeah, well, you weren't focused on that. You were focused on organic marketing. So for us, we always felt like that was just the least risky way of launching because like it doesn't cost as much, basically. So we just launched in a lean way, like we launched with no ad spend. And in fact, we were in we didn't touch ads for like probably like six to eight months into our journey. And we just really focused on telling our story, telling our story, not like just once on our meet us page on our website, but every single day we tell our story through our social through the interviews we do with press. We just like to show up as we are and talk about the things we care about and hopefully create space for dialogues that are important as it relates to the Asian American community and Asian culture. It's you know, what's really crazy is that what are you what you're sharing with me is so wise and it's like you have such a good business document, which is so cool to see in such a young founder yourself. I'm like really blown away by by that level of of of clarity you have because it doesn't come easy for sure. So congratulations on that. And I mean, there's so many questions that I want to continue asking, but I know your time is short. So I'm super thankful already for you being here. Any plugs? How can we find you? How can we follow you? What do we want to do? What if we want to be part of the conversation? How is how can we best support you? Thank you. I appreciate that, Wilson. Yeah, well, you can find us in a couple of different places. So our website is on some dot com, which is O M S O M dot com. And there you'll find kind of the little universe that we've created. And if you want to even go deeper, you can find us on Instagram at omson. And really, this is where you'll kind of get to feel the heart and soul of like who we are and what we care about and and how we show up as a brand. We have an incredible newsletter run by my sister. Every week she sends out her weekly newsletter called The Shout. And it is literally just like a deep dive into Asian culture. Sometimes it's just like funny stuff like memes. Sometimes it's like these are important topics and issues we need to talk about. I really recommend reading that. And then me personally, you can follow me at Instagram at Vanessa T. Fam and my DMs are open if you have questions. Thank you. Thank you so much. I definitely a super big honor. Thank you. Thank you, Vanessa. Yeah, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Wilson.