 A punisher is a thing. It's a stimulus. So a punisher could be, that could be, that, it could be, ah! I mean, any sorts of things you wanted it to be, right? So it's any stimulus, anything that can be done. These lights in a different context should probably be a punisher to me because it's just really intense. Anyway, so a punisher is the stimulus that reduces behavior, right? So punishment is the process, punisher is the stimulus, right? So if we're going to apply a punisher, then you are using positive punishment and you are going to reduce a behavior. It's all I got.