 And we are live. I'm Anthony Johnson, founder of the 21 convention and 21 studios, posting today's episode of the red man group on 21 live. I believe episode five. My partners in crime today include your, myself, black debilagic Carlos, Donovan Sharp from the Sharp reality, Ryan Stone from Mary Red Pill and Rola Tomasi from the rational male. Ryan and Rola are alumni speakers of the 21 convention. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having us again. Yeah, thanks. Hell, yeah. So what do each of you have going on right now? What's new in life and in work and passion? Rola, can we get it off? Oh, I don't think you can go. Go ahead, Don. Yeah, the show is rolling along really nicely. I'm coming up on 10,000 subscribers. So I'm gonna be, I know that's nothing to you guys, but having done this for a year and a half to me, that's quite an accomplishment. I'm also gonna start taking live calls here within the next month or so. And after that, I feel like the show's gonna take off at that point to be able to interact with a lot of my viewers, you know, get trolls on the line, which is always entertaining. So yeah, doing some good things. Yeah, you're definitely gonna have to deal with the trolls on the line. Oh yeah, listen, I count on it. I count on it. I am still working on book number four right now. I've been doing a lot of research and sort of consulting with other guys right now and everybody knows that I'm doing something that's a little more sort of the red pill and how it interacts with religion right now. And so it's gonna be an interesting book because I can't rely on just my own blog posts or my past work. It's actually something fresh that I have to write. So, and I shouldn't even really say it's all me because I've got, Dalrock is helping me out right now. I wanted to get him as a co-author but he's not ready to come out of his anonymity right now which I understand that's solely cool. And then I've got probably about four or five other guys who are helping me out sort of giving me ideas and saying, hey, what do you think about this? And we're just bouncing ideas off each other like any emails and everything. So that's coming along right now. Just actually did a interview. I don't even really want to call it an interview. It was more like a talk with AJ Cortez yesterday. I heard that yesterday, yeah. Hours, man. And I was like, it's funny because I was like, I'll just go up for an hour with him. We ended up going two hours and then just flew by. And that was really cool because we talked about some old school shit. So we were talking about like physique and just basic nuts and bolts, red pill from an intersexual dynamics perspective and getting into some of my older stuff when I was talking to, we were talking about like the old school rational male stuff. And that was a lot of fun. I think a lot of people really got into that. It's, I've been getting a lot of positive feedback for that on Twitter, which I take as more meaningful than really anything I see on YouTube per se, because people are going to go in there and they're just going to give you shit on YouTube. Yeah, YouTube's fucking free for all. I mean, some of the comments I see in your guys' videos on a daily basis are just like, geez, I have to. I'm going to also be doing a series of, I guess talks with Richard Cooper. And that's probably something else we need to talk about too because we're going to be swapping off hosts, I guess, between us and Rich. Yeah, I think most weeks we'll kind of go, we're going to bounce back and forth back and forth. Back and forth. So I'm going to end up making this a weekly show, but with Rich on his channel, I'm going to be doing a series for the nine iron rules of Tamasi. And those will, those will be made. Oh, that'll be solid. Yeah, they'll be made available for free and everything too. So that's where I'm at. Ryan, Carl. It's kind of cool. Some guy, oh. Yeah, go ahead. Some guy actually asked me for some voiceover work and now there's a YouTube video with one of my posts out there, which is really cool. I'll throw a link out there. I hate the sound of my own voice, but I think that's how it works for everybody. So. I don't, I'm the exception to the rule, Ryan. I love to hear myself talk. You don them and you have a good radio voice. So it's good. Yeah, you do. You have that gift for sure. What are you talking about a radio voice for? Actually, I wanted to mention to you guys that we're dedicating this episode to Jack Murphy and his current legal defense fund. So the number one link underneath this video is to Jack Murphy's defense fund. So click on that, go and pitch into them. Much appreciated. Both he would appreciate it and we would as well. Underneath that link for Jack Murphy, you'll also find show links and guest links to the speakers on this episode. So Carl, Donovan, Ryan, myself and Rolo. Carl, do you have anything to input before we hop into the today's topics? Yeah, we talked about a blog post last week about the diagnostic criteria for oneitis and I actually put them out the last week. So. Yeah, I think I saw that. Yeah, it was kind of difficult to separate oneisis from psychosis because they were really similar. Yeah, I remember too, you had an interesting point on you, I think it was in your dangerous personalities for women post series. You pointed out that oneitis between yourself and a neurotypical woman is different than oneitis with a cluster B or dangerous personality. I don't know if something we'll get into in this show, but it's just something that came to mind right away. Yeah, it's, oneitis works both ways because it makes you disregard anything negative or anything and magnify anything positive. So I went and found the cold Rolo had last week from up in Sinclair. It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it. That pretty much applies to a lot of people. Yeah, not only that, it applies to sex too. It's hard to get a man to understand different things. Like, I heard a joke a long time ago, like God, if there is a God, didn't create man to be able to, like there's not enough blood in the male body to operate the head and the dick at the same time or something to that effect. Yeah, that is absolutely true. Yeah, the saying is some truth. Well, there's one of those things. Good. How are you gonna convince the guy who never got laid that the girl would finally, they need worthy to sleep with him, that she's the devil. You're not, fuck it, girlfriend. And then he'll figure it out. I'm not joking. Every guy here, how many guys here have that story where they really told their friend, they love this girl, they thought she was great, he went and fucked her and then you got pissed off at him and then he told you, what the fuck is your problem? Yeah. Yeah, it's trauma wakes people up 100%. See, when I was 15 years old, man. Jesus. Well, for today's topic, guys, we were talking in private before the show started and then, you know, through DMs and stuff over the past couple of days, we're gonna talk about technology in the sexual marketplace. What a good example that is, that Rollo's discussed and others in the red pill has been the effects of female birth control since it was introduced in the 1960s, how that's massively changed the sexual marketplace over the past couple of decades as a revolutionary technology to introduce into reproduction. We also wanted to then kind of shift into male birth control and that's on the horizon, it looks like at this point, both hormonal as well as gel types being injected. Donovan, do you want to hit off on that? Yeah, the male birth control is interesting, especially, I didn't realize that there was a hormonal male birth control, but I heard of one, I think last week, I think somebody sent me a link to it, and I don't have it in front of me, but I think the way they do it is they reduce the amount of testosterone in your system. So the very compound that makes a man a man, that makes a man sexually attractive to women is exactly going to be what they dial back in order to make him sterile. So yes, male birth control, hormonally, that sounds like it could be a good idea, except for the fact that if you're shooting blanks, it's not gonna make a difference one way or the other because girls aren't gonna wanna fuck, you don't have any testosterone in your system. Now, the vassal gel, I think we were talking about off the air, now that sounds something that's viable, if it doesn't fuck with your hormones, that's perfectly fine. I think that male birth control, guys, listen, this isn't an exaggeration, this is gonna revolutionize the world, because as it stands right now, females and females alone decide which babies are born. That's what it comes down to. If a woman wants to have a kid, she'll have the kid. If she wants to have an abortion, she'll have an abortion. Regardless of whatever marches or protests there are, at the end of the day, women can choose whatever happens to their bodies, irregardless of the consequences. So I think that male birth control gives us men a little bit more control in that we can be choosy about who we impregnate as opposed to women just choosing who they get impregnated by. Rolo, can you talk to us a little bit too about, I mean, not that you were there, but sexual reproduction before the introduction of birth control? Because we're not gonna see that change twice now. No, no, I was gonna say is there's nobody in this chat has lived in an era that hasn't known hormonal birth control for women. And so we grew up, all of us grew up in a time where that's just been the norm and we don't really appreciate just how significant that invention is for women. We have essentially, just like what Donovan was saying, was we put the fate really of the human species in the hands of women. I have probably four or five different posts about women in birth control and just how significant that is. Because I mean, what was it? I think in one of my earliest posts, I was talking about how it's on level with giving women the power of the nuclear button almost. It's a nuclear weapons atomic energy discovery type thing that we're basically handing over to women and giving them a complete and unfettered control of their own hypergamy. And up until that point, up until the sexual revolution, people always think the sexual revolution was just some cultural change that happened in the 60s. But you have to understand what prompted that sexual revolution. That sexual revolution wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for hormonal birth control. And remember that it is unilaterally controlled by women. So I was just talking about this with AJ yesterday when we were talking about how women at a certain age, when they get to, their so-called biological clock is ticking and they wanna lock down a guy. I told AJ this because he was like, he's 29 and he's getting into that age where he's gonna be very, very attractive to women who wanna lock him down because he's a good looking dude. He's got his, he's got his shit together. He's red pill aware. He's ambitious. He's got his business side of things down. And the dude is an actual, a player and a good dude too. And I told him, I said, you're gonna be in a position right now where women are gonna wanna lock you down and they're gonna do that by getting themselves pregnant. And when we look at the statistics of what's happened since the sexual revolution, we've seen a rise in abortion. We've seen, if you look, if you consider birth control as a form of abortion, I mean, then you consider how many pregnancies haven't happened because of the pill. But then on top of that, think about the rise in legal and safe abortion. And since the sexual revolution, we call it a revolution, but like I said, it wouldn't have been possible without a unilateral control over women being the sole proprietors, I guess, of the birthing process. And so you get into situations, just like I was talking about with AJ, where a woman can say, oh, I was on the pill and accidentally I got pregnant. And I was telling him, because I've seen these, I don't know if you guys have seen these, but there are actual forums that are dedicated to women, basically swapping notes and saying, hey, look, here's how I got my man locked down and here's how you can do it too. And it's basically this, it's almost like this red pill aggregate of information for women who want to lock down that guy at a certain time in their lives. And I don't know if you're aware of this as well, but there's a black market out for positive pregnancy tests. Listen, fakeababy.com, they have fake pregnancy tests, fake sonograms, all kinds of stuff, man. None of that is illegal. None of that, I mean, you can buy whatever you want to and you can, in fact, they encourage it. It's almost something that is unbelievable, man. I don't think guys really are aware of that kind of shit. And then you also look at, especially nowadays, now that we know how to freeze eggs, you see women getting into the egg freezing side of things where it's like, they want to say that they're doing it for their career, but they're finally, they're kind of coming clean with it and they're saying, we just can't find the right guys. So now I'm 38 years old and I've frozen my eggs and I'm just going to have them artificially inseminated and then have babies. Which almost never works out like they plan. It's difficult. Well, think about it this way though. We live in an era, again, where we just take sperm banks for granted. We take artificial insemination for granted back. And I can remember talking about this with my mother-in-law. She remembers a time when having a child out of a wedlock, you know, they had to take you and put you away and you'd have the kid and you give it up for abortion or abortion, you give it up for adoption because there was no really legal abortion back then. And it was just something that was just a real social stigma. And today it's like a mark of empowerment. And why is it that? Because we have, since the sexual revolution, we have put that control in both socially and legally and just, you know, really species-wide evolutionarily into the hands of women right now. And it's never, nothing like that has ever happened in this state of, you know, in humankind ever. I gotta tell you guys too, and we'll get to Carl and then I have defended, I can tell you guys off air, I have definitive and have seen definitive evidence repeatedly that women will not only skip the pill, of course, like we talked about in the red pill and then accidentally, quote unquote, get pregnant, they will actually take fertility treatment to increase fertility during the process of starting to skip birth control. They will double down and take pills that increase fertility. So it's the other, the one that go all the way. Carl, did you wanna hop in on this? Well, first of all, if we could take a pill every morning that would get us out of 18 years of child support, how many men would forget that pill? Wouldn't have to pay. I mean, that pill would be next to my toothbrush in the bathroom. No. Secondly, yeah, I was just gonna say that if you look at it, beta box is basically being covered entirely by the state now. A woman can get all these social programs that cover her. The pill, more or less, is a risk transfer mechanism that take, if you wanna have sex, you can have sex without getting pregnant, but it's also a way for women to lock down the alpha. If all the alphas are using vasogel and it can't make women pregnant, women can't satisfy the alpha fuck side of hypergamy and that's going to increase the price of relationships for them. Just like the pill made sex cheap, the vasogel is going to make relationships really expensive and then are the gatekeepers of relationships. Okay. Now, I get what you're saying there, but the thing is is like, and I'm just getting back to the male side of things. I don't think this hormonal thing is gonna go anywhere to be honest with you because the guys are simply not gonna wanna take it because it's gonna make them feel like shit. I wish we had a limitable man on here to talk about how lowering this testosterone, because that's really the side effect of it is lowering testosterone and of course a slight weight gain. Like what guy is gonna go, yeah, I can't wait to get fat and not really wanna have sex by taking this pill to make this sex. Is that every man who attended a woman's march? They don't need male control. They're already there. Beta's are gonna beta. Beta's are gonna beta, man. Beta's are gonna beta. But then take it to the other side of vasogel side where if it's not gonna mess with your hormones and it's gonna be some sort, I think it's a mechanical way of doing it. I know that they like stick something in your nut sack or something like that. It's like, consider how spray foam stops drop from your windows. It does that, but with your stuff. Yeah, so you've got that going on and essentially that's more like a vasectomy that you can sort of turn on and turn off, I guess. But that I think has more legs than anything else. And I think what you're gonna see is, you're gonna see once the feminine imperative becomes a little bit more aware of that and understands what the social impact of that is going to be, I think you're gonna see them trying to limit that and they're gonna try to make it illegal. Because if you look at where we're at when it comes to DNA testing, we have essentially signed over the human species to the female of the race right now, of the species right now. Because if you look at, they can abort whoever they want. They can have pretty much locked down any guy by accidental pregnancies anytime they want. There's no repercussion, no consequences for any kind of birth fraud. And then we have what's called the cult of the child where the woman is always the one who's going to be, I mean, for the most part, unless she's like a drug addict or some criminal or something like that, she's gonna get custody of that kid. The kids are never really in the control of the man, of the father. The father can be anyone that that woman puts on the birthing certificate and trying to make it stick might be one thing, but the other thing is like, the reason that that's a big deal is because it limits doctors from legally making the quote unquote father, the not father, but not the biological father aware of his own cuckoldry. So that's illegal to do in certain countries right now when we're looking at, I think it's in France, but in certain countries, it's illegal to get a DNA test. It's definitely illegal in France, right? Even if you get that, like say you're in the United States and even if you get that, because they're thinking of the best interests of the child all the time, even guys who were outright blatantly cuckolded, they still are financially responsible for that child because it's in the best interests of the child that, you know, he pay child support. And I mean, we're not even talking about the emotional investment a guy might have with a child that he thinks is his in the first place, but you know, birth fraud is something that we just have normalized and taken for granted. And we don't even really, outside of like maybe the MRA circles, I don't really see anybody really talking about this all that much. It's a victimless crime though. It's only the first guys. Yeah, exactly. On the plus side, now here's some good news. I have seen, there has been at least two cases I've seen in the UK recently, past couple years where cuckoldry was, the fraud was actually prosecuted and the mothers went to jail. I can send you guys the links once we get off, but I found these a few weeks ago. I would like to see that. And I think even if that's the case, is that here in the United States? No, that was in the UK. So I've not seen that in America yet. Well, the thing is, is what Black Labelogic was talking about earlier, as far as like a male birth control pill, we, if you're a man, you would never forget to take it. Just like he said, it'd be right next to my, right next to my toothbrush or whatever. Well, the reason for this is simple. It's just like marriage. We, when we have a kid, when we have a child within a marriage we're out of wedlock, guys, we have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Women, on the other hand, have nothing to lose and everything to gain. This is why they accidentally forget to take the pill or they're not as vigilant about it as they should be. Because worst case scenario, as far as they're concerned, okay, so I shit out a kid, but you know, Donovan is gonna be here to support the kid, at least financially for the next 18 years. That'll be an addition. And they don't think about the, they don't think about the emotional repercussions that comes with having a kid out of wedlock or taking the kids away from the father. And of course, because they're female, they're not rational anyway. The only time females are rational is when they are picking up beta bucks, okay? When they pick an alpha fucks, all reason or rationale goes out the door and women shouldn't really use rational or rational thought when thinking about guys to fuck. That's why it's a biological thing. Kids are not conceived out of rational thinking or rational thought. Sea guy, fuck guy, have a kid with guy. Oh my God, what have I done? Well, you don't know, of course you know what you did. Maybe Carl has the exact stat on this, but if I'm not mistaken, I think 80% of births worldwide are not planned. They're just accidental, accidental. Sure. You gotta have, what are the United States, 40, I think it's the United States and the UK, I'm pretty sure 42% of births are out of wedlock today. And what does that tell you? I mean, and that's, That marriage sucks. Statistically, it's gone up since the sexual revolution. Hey, I was gonna say, as far as what Donovan was talking about, I think that you have to, you have to take into consideration the idea that men control like the commitment side of things and women control the sex side of things. And I'm not a big proponent of that. I think that women actually, at certain times of their lives, women can control both sides of that equation. But maybe when they get a little bit older, when they get into their epiphany phase, then they lose, they have progressively less and less control over that. The other thing I think is that even if we had a really, let's just say there's a pill out there or some sort of process that will put birthing right back into the hands of men. And so it, again, increases the value of those commitments and that relationship. Even if you have that, you're still gonna have guys who are alpha and guys who are beta. And the guys who aren't getting sex are gonna be the ones who are going to lower the value of that commodity. So when the thirsty guys are out there and they're like, you know what? I don't care. I'll have sex with you. I'll have a relationship with you. You're gonna see that that's going to sort of... Does that count as consent? Yeah, I was gonna say it's... Oh, there we go. It's gonna lower the market value of what we think is going to be a commitment market, I guess. Yeah, and Rola, your post on this is Keymasters, right? Is the title of it? Yeah, one called Keymasters. I've also got another one called a woman's prerogative or man's prerogative. And it goes into how vasogel will change things from a societal level. And I think you just sort of have to take it with a grain of salt because it's gonna be great for guys who are high value men who are gonna be on it and say, there's no way I'm gonna ever have a kid with you. And then it's gonna put the onus of that relationship back on the woman. So she's going to have to find some way to add more value to commitment value for that guy to actually wanna do that. Because if the guy is a high value alpha male and he can say, hey, I don't ever have to worry about getting a woman pregnant and I don't have to worry about getting locked down. I think also you have to take into consideration how it will affect the birthing rates after that. If certain guys say, I can afford it. So I'm gonna do the process that you're gonna look at things from a socioeconomics standpoint as well. Or is it just gonna be a certain socioeconomic class of guys who are going to be able to do that? Or is it gonna be guys who are just gonna say, you know what, I'm not gonna do that because I'm a real man. You'll see that come up. It'll be like, I'm the real man. So I'm gonna be commitment. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna do all the things that my Tradcon friends tell me I should do to make me a real man. And just real quick, before Ryan jumps in here, that's how they're gonna keep the level, that's how they're gonna keep the playing field on level. They're gonna make male birth control so expensive that only a certain class of men can afford it. Well, female birth control, you can get it for, you know, six bucks down at the local clinic. That's just how it works. Yeah. If you wanna take it a step back even, if you think about it, in the 1940s, we started the eugenics program. We didn't like how it was going. So we threw a bunch of Russians at the problem and shut it down. 20 years later, we started it again, except for this time we didn't put an art student in charge. So what we have now with this birth control, and bear with me here, the scotch is kicking in, but we have an ad hoc, we have an ad hoc crowd-sourced program of eugenics. And it may be working, I don't know. With the birth control bill, and I know it's a really extreme framing, but I kinda wanna just draw attention to the point that it's a big fuckin' deal controlling which direction the species is going. Rolo made an excellent point explicitly in his 21 convention talk, the one that went on YouTube a few weeks ago, that betas, by accepting the birth control pill or watching this go down, and unintentionally, like, progress their own eradication from the species, like eugenics basically. Exactly. Now consider this, in no political lens here, there is no other sphere where people are okay with having an unelected group of people control public policy, other than birth control, which is arguably a eugenics program, crowd-sourced. I think the other thing you have to throw into this mix is the social aspect of things, like since the 70s, hypergamy was something that women wanted to keep secret. They wanted it to be something that only they knew about. You know, we were just talking about, you know, are women calculating or is their decision-making process, is that all based on emotions? Is there some rationality to it or is it all just instinct? And I'm going, if you think I'm going back to a post by Elimitable Man, I am. He was just talking about this on Twitter, not too recently about how there is the instinctual level, which is sort of hindbrain limbic level of dealing with things, and there's the emotional interpretation of that, and then there's the rational interpretation of that. And I really think that when it comes to women's breeding right now, there's, first of all, there's no rationality to that, but there's all over time. It can't be, but this is how we ensure the best genes. There's a hell of a lot of instinct in that. Right, right. That's how you keep the best genes in play is it can't be rational. That instinct is very, very calculating. It's very much designed. I mean, when you're talking about things on the instinctual level, it's what, what is it that about a guy that makes him alpha that a woman says, I'm really hot for that guy? It gets her wet. I mean, literally it's an environmental prompt and it has a biological effect on her. It's the same thing for a guy. We see a hot chick we get a heart on, right? Right. If she sees a hot guy where she wants to have sex with that guy, she's gonna get wet and she's gonna get aroused, right? Well, you're looking at an environmental prompt that is triggering a biological, a biological response. And what happens is that's all based on evolved instinct. So when, you know, I mean, all of it really is to aid in reproduction when you think about it. But when a woman is making a decision and she in the back of her head, she understands that there's very little consequence to me making this decision right now. That's why we see hypergamy going from being something that's secretive to being something that's out in the open. And I've got several posts on how hypergamy is open hypergamy. And what's the next step from that? Now that we can just sort of be out in the open with things and say, hey, yeah, you know what? We only really want the alpha dudes to have sex with but we're happy to have you beta guys help us out with the parental investment and to raise these kids even if it's a genetic evolutionary dead end to you. We're okay with that and we're gonna be upfront and in your face about that. And we're gonna, we're gonna wave our flag about that. And what's the next step after that? The next step after that is open cuckoldry. So it's, it's, we're already there dude. Well, four of the guys that aren't getting with the program. And I will say, instead of taking this as a complaint, how it should not be, there is no reason not to be that guy. Like most people are just opting out anyway. So the top 20% is really more like the top 50% putting a little bit of effort. Yeah. Well, then you, then you have, you go from open hypergamy to open cuckoldry where it's like, yeah, you're gonna play this role and you're gonna like it and we're gonna make it so socially acceptable that you're going to actually find it desirable to be the beta bucks guy and to let some other dude fuck your wife and have kids with them because he has superior genetics over you. Only guy that's gonna accept that shitty deal is a guy who has no other options. And there's plenty of them. I mean, I just did this. I did a segment with Pat Campbell on his radio show and we were talking about the, just the increase in all of these articles. I mean, granted they're on CNN and they're on, you know, Huffington Post and other place, the independent and all that but they're just praising the benefits of having an quote unquote open relationship but that open relationship all it really amounts to is one or two beta guys trying to fight for the affections of one woman who's out on looking for an alpha on Saturday night because she really doesn't want to have anything to do with them other than the resources and the emotional investment that they can contribute to that relationship. And so you're seeing a rise in this push or this effort to make it more socially acceptable these days, I think probably you're gonna, it will end up becoming sort of a designer or new way of having a relationship. So basically it's getting the betas to sign up for their own brainwashing and propaganda. Yeah. I mean, it seems to be working because, you know, you've got not only beta guys almost, there's almost like alpha dudes kind of signing off on this too. Kind of being a part of the gig like, hey guys, yeah you're a real man if you take care of our kids because we're on a blue pill office. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Well, let's back up a second. So we talked about briefly how women will respond to the introduction of male birth control to the SMP. Now what, now we talk and I think Rolo or it might've been Donvin I'm not sure mentioned that how women will respond specifically like they'll take actions to, well like Harrell mentioned like moderate the new value change in relationships and commitment. So what would that look like? What comes to mind for me, for example is Instagram scrubbing. So all of a sudden you pay five bucks and someone's able to like mass delete, you know, thousands of ass pictures on your Instagram that you had throughout your 20s. You guys have any input on that and how women are going to respond? Will there be new movements, kind of trap thought movements or something like that? You mean in number two? Good, good. Well, I just thought there are two things. One is the one you're thinking about erasing their past and the other one is actually building value of some sort or at least appearing. We already see the mechanisms they use with the trap thoughts, the chicks that they party all the way through their 20s and then suddenly they have a religious awakening and they're reborn virgins or whatever they call it and they're traditional and they just want a traditional man. And we're going to see that just to extreme levels. The trap thoughts that whole dynamic right now I really think that that's just women falling into their epiphany phase and trying to get back to doing things the right way and expecting guys to man up and to qualify to them and their new moral imperatives. Yeah, well when they get to be 29 to 31 years old and I think that nowadays because the red pill and the manosphere are a little bit more common or these women know about them, they see that as sort of a niche sexual marketplace. And so combine that with them being in their epiphany phase with trying to appeal to this man up dynamic. It's really, trap thoughts and all that is just really man up. It's just man up in a different way. Quite roll over a very specific question for you. Will, and if it does in what way how will their birth control affect your current graphs for navigating the sexual marketplace? So that could be how could it, how does it affect expand or shrink the epiphany phase and all the surrounding phases? Do you have any foresight into that? Oh, I don't know really. I think that as far as if guy, you mean if guys have the capacity to control their birth? I mean, yeah, so once guys gain that capacity through some form of birth control assuming it isn't a band or something, are we gonna see those graphs change a little bit? 10 years from now, let's say. I think the first thing you'll see is you'll see that women will, won't change their ways because we already have this social initiative that makes them believe that, it's what I call the Fempowerment initiative. It's this social understanding that women should always be on top and women should always, men should always defer to women and we should always empower women. That's why I call it Fempowerment. And I think that in the beginning, they won't even realize that. And the reason I say that is because whenever I talk to women about Vagicill or whenever there's an article and I look in the comment section about it, it's nothing but women going, yeah, finally, now we don't have to worry about this stuff so much. Finally, we're gonna bring the men in on this and it's gonna be on them to do it. And I'm like, you say that now because you think that that's the cool, funny thing to say because it's a hit on guys because it's something that guys would have to do that women all have to do today. But what they're not realizing is they're not realizing that they'll lose control over the birthing process and guys will end up having more of a say in that. I think that you will see, I mean, let's just say for a sake of argument, it's cheap and enough guys can get a hold of it. Like say to the same degree that women can get birth control. I think you will see a drop in birth rates, first of all and women won't know what's going on. And I think that probably for the first couple of generations when this is introduced, like I said, women won't realize what's going on until it's too late because they're all, like I said, they're already trying to get guys to embrace it because they think it's a boon for women. When it's not really a boon for women, it's a boon for men and from a societal level, it takes back a measure of that control that was given to them during the sexual revolution. I think that from a standpoint of sexual market value, I don't think you're gonna change too much as far as where women's sexual market peak is and where men's is simply because technology and the way the society is built right now that still is always gonna take longer for a man to mature than it is for a woman to mature. If there is any change, I would say that maybe women start thinking about long-term, a long-term relationship a little bit earlier because they'll come to the conclusion that once they are in their peak fertility or fertility and their peak sexual market value phase, that that is the time that they really need to consider locking down the highest quality guy that they can because that is when they are at their most marketable. So I think that maybe the epiphany phase might get rolled up a little bit further. It might be like 25 or 26 where we are start thinking about that. But other than that, I don't really see it too much of a change. Perfect, thanks for the analysis. That's kind of what I was thinking too is I might put a little more pressure on them like that. Did you wanna go on a rant, Donovan or Ryan? Yeah, yeah, just real quick, Xaver, shut the fuck up. Like Xaver's in here, no, seriously. Xaver's in here talking about where is a limitable man? He's too controversial, they booted him up. Even after Anthony told this motherfucker, he's welcome back anytime. Well, he would probably, dude, we're not fucking women, man. Like sometimes people are just fucking busy. Like enough of this drama. Well, no, nobody's on the outs with anybody, dude. Like enough with that. My taste on, really not gonna like it when we have Christian McQueen and Wilbur on and me and Rich and everybody else we're talking about. People piss me off. They're like, well, these guys are supposed to be Red Pill directing. Like it's just like the Red Pill Reddit. The Red Pill Reddit is a fucking joke because they're full of dudes like this guy Xaver, who by the way, misspelled his name, right? It's supposed to be Xavier, but I guess he's trying to be fucking different, which is a female attribute more or less. But the Red Pill Reddit roller, and you know this better than anybody, you get more detractors there on Reddit than anywhere else, because they wanna go after the great roller to Massey like this dude, like this fucktard Steve Hoka. This guy is trying to make a career out of just going after you to get notoriety. Dude. He can get in line because the cast is in. Out of here. Listen, if you know so much about the fucking Red Pill starting God damn channel, dude, don't come in here trying to start drama, trying to act like you're more Red Pill than the next time. Dude, dude, shut the fuck up, man. Like get out of here. I'm saying if you're gonna be a Pat Steadman and do this shit, just let us go in private. No, seriously, if you wanna start some drama to build up your page views, give us a heads up you're doing it. I am more than happy to help my fellow man because listen, like, dude, we'll help you out. You know what I mean? Like we'll get, we'll, we'll do some scripted WWE type shit, but don't come in here posturing like you're the super fucking Red Pill guy. Get out of here with that. Life long Hoka maniac. I have no problems playing the heel. Bruh. You know what I mean? All right, I'm glad, I'm just real quick. I'm glad you mentioned that because I have just become aware of this new sort of popularity in what's called YouTube blood sports. Have you guys heard of that? No. Idiot that was fucking over Roosh on that debate. That's a good example of it. Worsky, Andrew Worsky, I think, has a, they've pretty much built a show or built a channel all around YouTube blood sports where they get like head to head with whoever is the polar opposite of like, say for example, Roosh. And they've been doing this with a lot of other people too. They got, I think they did it with Sargon of Akkad and some other dudes too. Oh, Richard Spencer, yeah. Richard Spencer, Sargon of Akkad, yeah. That's YouTube blood sports. How do you fuck up with the bait with the white stuff, premises you fucking moron? Excellent. But see, the thing is, is I hate it. I understand why it's popular because it gives you that rise and it gives you that, you know, that Maury Povich kind of show. Yes. And people are loving on it, but it's all, but you don't learn anything. It's just a shouting match. It's just like, you know, who's gonna tell who to fuck off, basically. For the record, man, listen, I love Maury Povich. I know it's ignorant, low educational programming, but dude, I swear to God, it happens to me every time, every time he holds up that card, when it comes to three-year-old LaMonica or whatever fucking ghetto five, 14 syllable name this, syllable name this mother bugger. Marcus, you are not the father. And he's breakdancing everything. And I was like, oh my God. They got better moves than dancing with the stars. Where did God do it like that? Dude, they're doing spins and everything, man. It's, it's. I don't know, I just don't remember the old Jerry Springer shit too. So I was like, I guess it was free Maury. All right, Anthony, get us back on track. Yeah. So we're supposed to have Carl on next to kind of reserve the spot, but he's actually dealing with some ribs right now. He's smoking up. He'll be back in a second. In the meantime, we could jump into, and I think we should, social media and how that's affected sexual marketplace as well as a technology much more recently than of course birth control. Yeah, Ryan, did you want to hit that? It's female porn. You think about it. What do guys want? They want sex with hot visual chicks. What do girls want? They want validation. Social media to girls is what porn is to guys. Yep. One is taboo, one is not, which is fine. I don't need to watch porn in front of a bunch of people anyway, but just be aware of what it is. Now, and don't pretend like it's something else. You say it's porn, but I've also heard the Instagram social media for women is like world of warcraft for them. They're basically role playing and they're getting all this validation and likes and attention. Oh, yeah. I've heard that too. It's like they say it's, fuck, how did that saying go? Give your highlight reel, but you receive, but nobody sees your blooper reel or something like that? Yeah, something to that. I really would try that. Yeah. Anthony and I, I don't know if we necessarily disagree on this, but I think we have different takes on this. I see pornography as just, you know, that's something that guys do. And I think that your take on that is correct. But then you've got somebody like Hunter who wants to say that, you know, pornography is evil and it's going to ruin your life. And I understand it from that point too, but when you look at it from, you know, why is pornography ubiquitous? Why is it something that's free and easy to get online for guys? You know, I can go and find 20 different, shit, I can go get my cell phone and find, you know, 20 different, you know, hardcore online porn sites that, you know, I can remember when I was, you know, 10 years old, if you got a hustler magazine, that was like, you know, your, your goal, that was Pirate's Gold right there. Easy Rider. I was, I was a bit of a redneck. Easy Rider. Jesus. Exactly. I'm a little young for you guys. That's not, but I actually do have a point. Saver, shut the fuck up. The, swear to God, man. The thing is, is like when it comes to, to that access of it, of porn for, you know, young kids for young boys to get ahold of that. Remember, they've got access to porn that you and I and other adult men have probably never had in their lives. And I think that that actually does something to their brains. I think there is an actual, you know, modeling of the brain because of that. Now that said, I think that the parallel to that is women getting their ego strokes from social media. And so what that has an effect of is it has an effect on modifying women's psyches as well. And so we constantly say, yeah, women's egos are overblown today because of social media and we laugh about that. And that's sort of like a, a, a manosphere maxim right now, but it's really true. And we don't, we don't go and, and, and write these really long articles about how it's, it's artificially inflating women's egos, but we will go and we'll write long articles about how porn is, is detrimental to a man's development. And Rella, you specifically mean that there's a biological component to it. So women are getting, you know, 400 likes on their, on their ass photo. That's like a dopamine hit. They get that fast. They get how many they get. Yeah. Well, cause you have to understand. And again, I think that one of the biggest mistakes that we make societally right now is that we, we founded everything on this goddamn egalitarian equalist. Everybody's the same, you know, gender bullshit. Okay. So if it, and the thing is, it's not even so much about equality and it's not about egalitarianism. It's whatever best suits women and, you know, best unsuits men and so, but we'll call that equality. And that's a good example of that where we'll talk about how, you know, how detrimental pornography is to guys, but we won't go into why it's detrimental for women to get their stroke, you know, their dopamine hit really from social media. And we'll do that because we think that we're all equal. We think that, well, if women are like this, the men must be like this too. And so if it's good for us, then it must be good for men. And that's always the, if it's female correct, then it must be male correct as well. Yeah. And really equality has been replaced with the concept of identical. Like men and women are not equal. They're absolutely symmetrical and a fucking identical across every single metric imaginable. That's where it causes problems. Yeah. When you see that, like the things are equal. It's not that guys think girls are equal, so we don't get away with shit. It's girls think what they're doing is equal for guys, but they, we don't have that same benefit. Like, oh, casual sex is great because we can get it so easy. Why wouldn't guys think so? But guys don't have that same easy access. No, we do not. Yeah. That's the problem with equality is that it's more equal for others. Not only that. That's not from our side. Well, not only that, I agree with Ryan and I'm gonna, I guess I'll just do one last take here because I gotta do another show here at about five minutes, but sleeping around has a very different effect on guys than it does with women. Women think that they can get away with sleeping around and not have any adverse side effects physically, mentally or otherwise. Not that sleeping around doesn't have repercussions for men, but sex is far more emotional for women. This is why women who are sluts, 25% of them at some point end up on some sort of anti-depressant or anti, you know, whatever because females are not designed to be fucking around. Like, that's how that is. With regards to pornography, I would submit this to you guys. Now, I'll tell you something else here. Romantic comedies, rom-coms, that is porn for women. On the back of that, I will say that today in 2018, pornography is a far more accurate description upon what relationships, casual sexual relationships, boyfriend, girlfriend are really like than romantic comedies, okay? Because, again, according to Roland, I agree with you. Men, we are the gatekeepers to relationships. Women are the gatekeepers to sex. Well, anytime we can fire up the old laptop for some chicken, choke and fun, we can get easy access to the visual, you know, the visual access to porn. Ah, you know, I can get all the sexual stimulation I want from porn. It's the same thing with romantic comedies. Women wish that they could run into a John Cusack or a, I don't know, help me out with the rom-com guys or a Hugh Jackman or a Gerard Butler or whatever the case may be. That's what they want relationships to be like, but it can't be that way, so they watch rom-coms. So I think that romantic comedies are every bit as detrimental to females as pornography is to men. I think it warps their sense of reality. And like I said, I think porn is a more accurate depiction of relationships than romantic comedies. So to me, they're both unrealistic, but listen, if you had to pick one or the other, yeah, porn is a little more accurate these days. On that note, guys, it was great being here. I'm gonna run off and do another show and I'll see you guys in a couple of weeks. And thanks for being on the out of it. All right, guys. I'll have to argue with you when you're gone then. The only reason I don't say yes on that is because then it leads into the argument that video games cause school shootings, which I think is ridiculous. I think that lack of sexual attention for men, the guys who shoot up schools just need to get laid. I don't think there's any scientific about that. Oh, I just mean the argument. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, the part that worries me is not that. And when we talk about the Disney fantasy, everybody assumes that means John Cusack makes guys wanna be cocks or whatever. But no, it's not that. It's the other, it's failure guys, beta males, that try and convince them. It's that peer pressure. And that's what's meant by the Disney fantasy. And I really don't want to muddy the waters with that. So that's another reason I'm arguing with you on that point. No problem, no problem at all. Good point, and Saver, shut the fuck up. I'm out guys. See you, Devin. Ryan, I find your lack of pathologizing masculinity disturbing. Obviously men are always to blame for everything and everything's at fault and video games cause shootings. You must not read enough news. And it is true. It is always our fault, but I only say that in the Jocko sense that extreme ownership, treat it like your fault because then you take the steps you need to take to get the best outcome you can. But you are right. I think we added out actually last time we talked about this exact same point. Little bit. Where you suggested that girls need to accept some blame but I'm like, well, you can't make them accept it. So you might as well just work with what you got. Oh yeah, yeah, I agree on that. They will absolutely avoid responsibility for almost everything as long as they can. Even when forced to be a confrontation in reality like law enforcement or the law or something like that. And that's the blue pill part of me that suggests, okay, fine, if you want to be a child, I'll treat you like a child. Like I've got a good one. So we don't even go there, but I just mean in general, my dating, my single life, I guarantee you that this was a big part of it was treating them like children. Where's Carl? Are you back yet? One of you's around yet. I wanna hear about, I wanna see what the fuck he's doing. I know. He's smoking up some ribs. I don't think we're ever gonna see Carl unless it's a ski mask on, but we'll see. I'm back, sorry about that. I may or may accidentally just have spilled an extra of the honey, brown sugar, and butter on my kitchen floor. Oh man, ain't making me hungry. It's early here. Carl, do you wanna hop in back in? Did you remember what you wanted to hit on? Before you hopped off? Yeah, I was going to just hit on risk because back in the day, it used to be a woman would carry pretty much all the risk of fucking someone outside wedlock. Like if a woman got pregnant outside of wedlock, the burden would be on her family. She would be damaged goods, so she'd probably never be able to get a decent husband, if one at all. And then once the pill came around, that kind of removed risk from casual sex because women could predictably have sex now without getting pregnant. However, the men kind of, the risk can't be eliminated. So what would happen if a woman got pregnant now? You have to put other systems in place, and that was child support and paternity laws that said, well, if you screwed her, then you need to pay for the kid. And that has transferred more and more risk onto men. So now men are carrying more or less the entire risk of casual sex bar the pregnancy, which can be avoided if you're willing to have an abortion. So what will happen once you get the male birth control list, that will probably unilaterally remove the risk of pregnancy forever because no man will go and be, I'll remove my vasigel so I can knock you up by accident. It will be a conscious family planning decision that will involve both parties. I don't know, I feel like betas are gonna get suckered into it, or do you wanna go? No, I was gonna say is that I like what you're saying about that, I have these conversations with Dalrock quite a bit where it's we've gone from a nuclear family, sort of planning to have kids to, or marriage was actually an institution that would that foster that to what it's called a child support model right now. We've gone from marriage to a child support model. So it's not, you don't get married to start a family. You get married to support a child. And that's what you're, I think you're kind of talking about when it comes to the systems that developed around that. So I think that once you see the male birth control come around, assuming it does, remember the systems that are in control right now are going to see to it that it is, if it comes out around at all, it's very, very limited. But let's just say it's freely available to every guy who ever wanted to do it. You'll see new systems that will spring up around that. And I think probably what we were talking about before where it's this encouragement of the men to refine their masculine roots. They'll be like the trad top thing where they're gonna say, hey, we need you guys to man up and be the old school, old social contract guys that we need to be fathers of our kids right now because you're now in control of the birthing. Just if not more so than just as much as women are. And I think it'll, I think it'll bring some balance back to it in some ways, but I really think that women aren't going to want to lose that power dynamic. So they're gonna fight it tooth and nail. Yeah. And one of the first things that came to mind Rolo, and this is open to everyone, is that will be a social convention if it even doesn't get banned or something like that or prohibitively expensive. So I think the social convention that women will use on betas is that it's like prenups, right? Why do you want to prenup? Don't you love me? Don't you trust me? Why do you need vasigil? Why do you need male growth control? Don't you trust me to take the pill? Don't you love me? If things, I think we're gonna see a lot of social conventions like that leveraged against guys who are currently using it or want to use it or the girlfriends or whatever they have going on. Yeah. Maybe even beyond. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know if you guys have thoughts on that but it'd be a comparison between the future use of male birth control versus prenups right now for guys interested in marriage and going down that route. Cause that's one of the first things that comes up I think a lot of times for guys. Well, from my perspective it's just a matter of no matter how good your risk management systems become there's always gonna be some dumb fucker who doesn't use them. So you're always gonna have that one blue pill guy who is like, of course I love you darling let me go and hit you raw for a couple of days while you're in your most fertile part of your cycle I you'll tell me if you get pregnant but then once there guys know they should be getting a prenup before they get married guys know that they probably shouldn't get married at all. Anyone who does at this point it's like someone who starts smoking in 2018 everyone knows is a bad fucking idea and it will kill you but you still have people who start smoking. You're always gonna have that one aviot. There's a manipulation thing about and it's the fucking it's the weirdest thing like once you see it, I've seen hundreds of field reports the guys that fall for the same tricks and I get it and I put that in my post that I was talking about the YouTube channel attached to it with the manipulation techniques. Shame is a very, very strong motivator for guys to act against their best interests. We're like a real man wouldn't do this a real man wouldn't do that. And if you're right, if Vasigel does end up not working and this is gonna be 10 years from now it's gonna be because girls are shaming guys into the things that are important to them and you're not a man is like a strong one. Same as the stuff you were saying there. You just can't, it's the hardest thing to accept but you kind of have to be a bit of a dick to stand fast when people are trying to talk you into something of best interests. And I know, yeah, a lot of I'm turning into Rola here with like a bit of a rant but I know a lot of guys. Thanks. Jesus. I want people to get their money's worth. Well, no, I agree it's not a bad thing. I'm not saying that Rola at all. But yeah, it's you have to accept and a lot of the beta guys say girls like assholes but they got to like internalize that you have to be a bit of an asshole because if you do something that's 100% you and peripherally however much percent to the other person you're gonna be a dick sometimes and they're gonna get mad because you're not doing what they want you to do. So you just have to accept it. Drink a scotch, have a sandwich, drink a coffee. Like, yeah, a real man went, well, I guess I'm not a real man then and then just do what you want anyway. You may not be a real man for that two minutes but you'll get over it and you'll get what you want and everybody will win. And I would say out of all these talks I know we're talking a lot about this is the system this is that if you can pragmatically take a course of action out of it, I would say that keep all this in mind and then do what the fuck you want to do anyway. My latest gamble with women is actually that I'm a professional asshole and it seems to be very similar to what you're saying. Yeah, then there's no argument to have. You're an asshole. Okay, and what do they got after that? I think one thing that we should probably also cover here is that when and if the fantasy of male birth control comes around, I think you're going to see women become more concerned for their long-term welfare right now. Right now, yeah. Well, because I mean, what are we seeing right now? We're seeing the rise of the trad tot type thing and usually that's around their epiphany phase. And like I was saying before that epiphany phase might get pushed up a little bit more but as things stand right now we're seeing women wanting to get married later and later and they're putting off pregnancy till later and later. And what are they saying when they get there? They're saying, where are the good guys at? Where are the nice guys at? How come there's no more real gentlemen anymore? How come I can't find a guy who isn't an alcoholic and who isn't an asshole or who isn't living with his mom or who isn't, there's this bullet point list of prerequisites for that guy. I think you're going to see those prerequisites kind of diminish a little bit more. We're also seeing, again, we're in a point where we're looking at a society that has been all about, you know, pro-feminine, pro-female, femme-powerment. And what that is doing is that's creating the impression amongst women that they can forestall and put off, you know, getting into a long-term relationship further and further and further because they think that they can live like a guy. They can put everything off and enjoy the benefit. And we talk about how we masculinize women all the time. This is part of it where we want to say that a woman can be and live a similar kind of life to a guy. So if that means freezing her eggs, if that means waiting till she's 38 before she even wants to have kids, you know, nobody ever tells them that it's more and more difficult for them to even conceive much less, you know, carry a baby to term the older and older they get. But they just can't, you know, they can't accept that because once again, it's because men and women are supposed to be equal. We're supposed to be functional equals. And if that means we have to freeze eggs or if that means we have to put out hormonal birth control or if that means we're gonna have some abortions until Mr. Fred comes along, then that's what they're going to do. Yeah, I wanted to pick up before we move into a slightly different topic, social media technology and how that's affected the SMP. We're talking about birth control and how that's affecting the sexual marketplace. That's medical technology or biological technology. So how is Tinder and Bumble and all these different programs and online dating? How is that affected the SMP? Just in recent, you know, 10, 15 years it's been going on more frequently. Tinder did to sex, what Uber did to cabs. Pretty much, I wish I had like an eloquent, yeah, but no, this was pretty much it. I mean, what does Tinder do? Tinder facilitates hypergamy, that's what it does. It's- The one next to the end without having to go to the bar and buy drinks. It is an app that facilitates hypergamy. That's all it is. And I think that there's some really interesting things that have come out of the Tinder generation and really the online dating generation. Carl can speak to this probably better than I can because of his book, Gendernomics and he knows a whole lot more about what data closing might think where I have all the stats of things that have been happening socially because we can track these things. Another book, I don't know if you guys are aware of it there's this great book and it came out, I think in 2006 or 2007 and it was called A Billion Wicked Thoughts. And it was again, really sort of the first dataclysm where they're tracking the porn use of people and seeing what they prefer and tracking sort of a mixture of tracking online dating profiles and things like that to really get a better grasp on what the, really I think what constitutes hypergamy right now. Tinder is really just in my opinion it's a research tool. It's a data collection tool to figure out how maybe unfortunately how women's sexuality really works. Rola, would you say that Tinder and anything like it is a digital hypergamy filter? Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's, I get into these conversations with pickup artists, like hardcore pickup artists guys on my comment threads. And these are the guys who say looks don't matter at all. It's all about game. It's all about creating a feeling. It's all about making yourself the association with that feeling. And while I do agree with that to an extent I'm never going to say looks don't count and looks aren't some sort of benefit to a guy or can't be in some way. I don't think it's all about game. I think it's a lot about game but I think that looks also play a part of that. And I think we see just how important those looks are when we diminish the arousal and the attraction process to just the physical. And that's what we sort of did that with, remember hot or not. We're rating people. We sort of started it with that and hot or not really became, was really, it was really the dating, I should say Tinder is really the dating part of hot or not. It's, yeah, would you go and have sex with this person? That's really all Tinder is, is it's a filter for sure, for hypergamy. And I think, again, I think Carl can speak better to this but according to OKCupid or maybe it's Tinder too but women rate men like 80 plus percent of men as unattractive and that's just flipping by on Tinder or them declining likes or whatever when it comes to OKCupid. But I think maybe Carl knows. Well, women rate women on a perfect bell curve. The normal distribution. This is what you'd assume because most women are somewhere between a four and a six and you have very few ones and you have very few 10s. Now women rate men in a way where something like 72% of men are rated as below average. So the distribution looks very weird. So that also explains why there's such a discrepancy between supply and demand in this actual marketplace because for the alpha guys, you have, if you go by OKCupid stats, I think it's the top 72% of women are going after the top 18% of men and the bottom 72% of men are going after the bottom 40 some percent of women. So you have an equal number of men and women on each side because of the birth rates but you just have market preferences. It's like if you had two vodkas on the market, you have one that's 500 a bottle and one that's $50 a bottle and you have a market to buy one bottle of the big one. You have a case of the big one and a container of the last one and everyone wants to buy the expensive one. But what I wanted to add to it was, I think the major thing is with the Industrial Revolution you innovated on production, you could produce a lot more. And with the internet. Yeah, it's from labor. Yeah, exactly. You could invest capital and you wouldn't need as much labor. But the major thing that the internet did was it changed distribution. The biggest company in the world now, if I remember correctly, is Amazon. And what Amazon does, they don't actually own anything. All they do is they sit there as a middleman and they're like, OK, Ryan wants to buy a book. Rallo has a book. We'll connect these two and we'll take a little part of it. And that's what Tinder and OKCupid and all the dating websites you're doing, they're opening up a larger area to people and they're saving people the trouble of having to get off the couch. And if you start to look at what's available on different dating websites and for different data men, it's kind of a sad market because on one hand you have the chick who's like 5'1 and 510 pounds, has eight kids by 11 different dads, no job, no education, and assists in welfare programs. Or it's the corporate battle ax who may or may not be hot but has a personality that would make living with Joseph Stalin seem preferable. I hear what you're saying. And like I had this conversation with AJ yesterday about how women sort of price themselves out of the sexual marketplace where the guy has to meet all of this unrealistic criteria and a lot of that criteria is based around what they perceive their own value to be. So if a woman is a six and all of her girlfriends keep telling her she's an eight and she keeps getting as fat as she could be, she could go put an ass shot on Instagram and everybody's gonna say, you go girl so hot, la, la, la, and there's a billion different positive strokes for that girl on any number of different social media. What's that gonna do? Again, like we were talking about it's going to affect her own self worth. It's going to inflate her ego. We talk about that all the time and I don't think we're really covering anything that people don't already know but we need to think what is the repercussions of that and the repercussion is that guys that might end up being a pretty good match for that girl are never gonna get a chance with her because she thinks that she's so far above that person. And so what happens is then they find themselves 36, 37 years old, 38 years old and they're spinsters and I don't know if you guys know this but statistically if a woman is single past the age of like 34 or 35 she is statistically going to be single. She's gonna be a never married woman for the rest of her life. Self-inflicted prison. I've met one of these. I had a dinner and it was my old lady and she had a coworker. This girl was the first like Hillary supporting Midwestern girl I've ever met and I thought it was a joke. I'm like, holy fuck you Americans got is so bad. Holy fuck. She sat there and she gave me this great speech about you know the difference between misogyny and sexism is one is benevolent and one is evil. So I'm like, so if it's like whether I would for your benefit I want you to be sockless in the bedroom or in the kitchen and she's like whatever started shitting on me tried to bring my girl on a girl's night out. I was like, holy fuck. And I will say that you are right is that if you're single past a certain age but I don't think it's like a statistic thing like, well it's out of her hands. I think there's a wiring change that happens and that she gets angry because she's not getting what she's told she deserves and then she starts self-sabotaging and it's tough. I have no other words than for the guys who are 35 and above like my brother's there and he's hitting it with the 20 year old. It's awesome. He loves bumble with whatever. But for those guys when they try to date age appropriate girls the reason why there's so many dating over 30 dating over 35 kind of groups around there they have so much frustration is because they're picking these people that are self-sabotagingly damaged. And I would say that's it's not so much the reason that younger girls look better or whatever. It's that they're just not such giant cunts. And I'd say that's a huge thing. And if I have any advice for the three girls that are actually watching this podcast just calm the fuck down. Seriously. But anyways, yeah, so fucks over. I was talking to AJ yesterday and I guess he has a client. I mean, I think he might be for because he's a trainer. He's a personal trainer. He's got a client of a woman who I think is like 35 or 36 years old and she has those common complaints. So like, I can't find the right guy or how come, how are she wants to shame guys for the guys her age for wanting to go for so much younger. And even in, I think it was in dataclasm as well, Carl. The common age that men say women are at their hottest is always no matter what age of the guy is always like right around 22, 23 years old. Whereas for women it's sort of distributed as five to seven years older than what they themselves happen to be at that time. And so you're looking at really a physical, evolved dynamic. Men want younger, hotter, tighter. That's just how we evolved and that's just how things are. Of course, women wanna say, well, that's because they've been trained that way or it's because society or advertising has created these unrealistic beauty standards and everything. Like this is the same woman who just put on a shit ton of makeup and dyed her hair and did everything humanly possible to make herself look younger. Why? Because that's what guys find attractive. But yet we're supposed to be speechless or dumbfounded because we can't figure out why men wanna be with younger guys. Well, they know that but they just wanna, they wanna shame guys because they know that I think really they understand the predicament that they're in. But this girl was talking to AJ saying, how come I can't find this? And he's trying to explain to her, well, the guys that you wanna get with, you passed on them or you never gave, either you didn't give those guys a chance or you were too preoccupied with something else when you were in your party years and here you are. And statistically, you're probably not gonna find a guy. I mean, I hope you do but you're statistically not gonna find that guy. And I think one of the biggest mistakes that women make right now is really we teach them, again, like I was saying, we teach them to think like men and to believe that what attracts, what makes a man attractive is what ought to make a woman attractive. So if a man has a good looks and he has status and he has money and he has maturity and he's a good judge of character and he has all of these bullet points that we say are the prerequisites for women. Women think that that's what would make them attractive. So if they're professional, if they have a really good career, if they do all the things that hit the same buttons or the same bullet points for men, they think that men ought to be attracted to them. And it's entirely two different things. And this, once again, goes back to considering that men and women are functional equals and we live in some sort of egalitarian utopia. We do not, we live in an evolved, we are evolved to be complimentary to one another. And when you build yourself up and you make yourself into a more perfect man as a woman, now imagine AJ trying to tell this woman, well, what you really need to do is you need to become more feminine and you really need to be more submissive and you really need to be more, have a better outlook and you really basically need to change your life. Because what he's saying is you lived your life the wrong way and you need to go back and start over from scratch and try to be some money that is the polar opposite of what you think makes a strong independent woman for you. Well, this might be interesting as well, maybe Carl has some input on it, but the older woman is, the less plastic her brain is. And that's true for men and women. So I wonder if there's any relevance there that you really can't by that point. It's very difficult to, as you get older, it's difficult to change your mind and change your personality. Never mind the accumulated trauma and damage from, you know, slotting it up on Tinder for 15 years or whatever it was. Is Tinder even 15 years old yet? No, but they will be in the future. These girls, I mean, it's like psychological collapse incoming for a whole generation of women. For all the consequences of their delusions, they're gonna hit them in the face at 35, 38 years old, and that's coming. Well, there's one of these things you can, I can't remember the exact statistical term for it, but it's essentially about certain criteria and how they shape populations. Like if you imagine that you have 100 men and 100 women and 50 men, 50 women get married at 20 and then 50% of those people divorce. Then you have 75 in each population, but that population changed from 50, from 25, let's say you have 50 people in there who could make a long-term relationship work and 50 who couldn't. The older you get and the more people pair up, the more of the people who can make a long-term relationship work will pair off and what you're left with when you hit the third or fourth divorce bracket is basically people who nobody can stand to live with. And it's the same thing with women who remain single into 35 or 40 because they probably had high school boyfriends, they've had college boyfriends, et cetera, but for some reason they've elected to not make those relationships work because there's no woman who's like 35 and has never had a boyfriend unless there is something seriously wrong with her. So all these women have had their chance, but the grass is greener on the other side perspective. My value is so high that I will never, that you are simply not good enough for me. Yeah, the other thing is that the women who are actually married and get into that situation, then they have social media build their egos up and inflates their SMV, what they think is their SMV. Inflates that to such a degree that they get suckered into what Dalrot calls divorce porn where it's these movies and these stories that convince a woman that the grass is greener, like you were saying, that they would just divorce their husband, they could have exciting fun alpha sex like they used to have back when they were in their party years and it encourages women to detonate their families and to not give a shit about it and to go off and do their own thing. Fives of quiet desperation, man. It's so sad and that thing. I get really kind of pissed off, especially women when it comes to their, they constantly trot out this, the same story about how it's these guys who just wanna leave their wives and find trophy wives and start all over again. I'm like, you're only talking about that. I mean, that goes back to the apex fallacy. You're only talking about the apex SMV men who can do that. I would say probably 95, 98% of guys don't go the trophy wife route. But I would say that if you look at the divorce statistics and you look and see that it's 70, and I think it's actually more than that now, but it's at least 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Why is that? Is it because all those guys are just horrible, horrible assholes or is it that they just simply wanna get back to that alpha fucks? Like I talk about in preventive medicine, there is this alpha re-interest phase right before a woman sort of really realistically self-evaluates her sexual market value and says, can I really opt out of this marriage and find another hotter guy that I can get with and start something new with? And I think there's an entire divorce porn industry that has sprung up around that to encourage women to do that. It's on Netflix. I think you showed it to me. I didn't even know it was there till you pointed it out. I was like, holy fuck. I could not believe the amount of like monetization around of destroying families. I was like, holy. Divorces, it's an industrial complex is what it is. And it'll never change because there's too much money wrapped up in it. And it'll never be demonetized. Lucky to. Well, since Rolo did a shameless plug up his book there, I'm gonna do one of mine. I actually wrote a chapter for gendernomics called The Reflexivity of Sexual Market Value. And that was actually one of Soros's finance concept. And then my Twitter feed is probably going to be filled with people who accused me of being in league with George Soros now. But a very valid point that when you have either an increase in share value or a decline in share value, that movement is reinforced because let's say a stock drops 5% in value. That might be a realistic drop that's reflected in market fundamentals. But then you start triggering people's stop losses and then suddenly it drops another 5%. And then that triggers a new round of stop losses and more automatic selling. So in the end, the stock may be down 40% on what was a really no true fundamental value. And the same can work the other way because when people say, oh, that stock just jumped 10%. I'll get on board now before it goes another 10 or another 20. And what happens with women's sexual market value is that if they think of themselves as a six, they're realistically probably a four or a five. Then they have their 100,000 data boys following them on Instagram, complimenting how great their ass looks. That brings them to think they're a seven. Then they have guys popping up on their Tinder profiles. That brings them two and eight. And all the while this is the market that gives them a false sense of popularity that's not reflected in the fundamental value. And what happens is you get boom and bust cycles. So women live on a boom cycle from about, let's say they're 13 to be realistic when the 14, 15 and 16 year old guys start hitting on them. Then their value increases and increases and increases until they hit about 26, 27. And at that point, a woman is statistically the most overvalued she's ever going to be in her life. And at that point, you figure out that she's been Kodak and suddenly digital photography kicks in and her stock collapses. I wanna move the conversation forward to our final technological discussion today, guys. Let's talk about advanced sex robots that will probably be hitting the market at some point in the next five, 10, 15 years. And not just advanced, but probably at some point less and less expensive. I got like most technologies that get better and cheaper every time. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about how that's gonna affect the S&P and what women, how men will respond to that introduction and how women will respond to that introduction in the marketplace. Well, I think we're already seeing that right now. Wasn't there a story, I think it might've been about a French brothel right now that's like featuring these sex, German sex or German sex dolls or something. And there's a class action lawsuit because they're, because they're raping them, you know, they're raping these dolls. Oh my God. Yeah, I was reading that going, you know what? I wish I could say I was surprised by that, but I'm not surprised by that at all. Well, if you're gonna, yeah, if you're gonna market yourself as a series of holes, don't be surprised when man engineers are better series of holes. Exactly. And really what does that do? Really when you look at prostitution and you look at escorts and you look at the sex dolls market or even really look at porn that you would pay for, I guess, I don't know why you would. But if you look at all that really, what is that doing? That's just impacting the market value of women as a commodity, their sexuality as a commodity. And so of course, you know, they want to be able to limit the man's sexuality. I mean, that's what we, I shouldn't say this, I'm gonna quote this from Harteast. The goal of feminism is maximally unrestricting women's sexuality while maximally restricting men's sexuality. And if you don't believe that, go look up that story that we were just talking about, about these women wanting to stop men from having sex with dolls because they think that it's tantamount to rape. That's right there is like, first of all, it's not. And the second of all, why is it so pressing that you have to start a class action lawsuit to do that? Because the goal of feminism is to maximally restrict men's sexuality. And I think even Dr. Jordan Peterson was talking about this. He said that in the future, any sexual expression by men will be a criminal offense. So only a woman will be allowed to be sexual and the guy will have to be the one who responds or does not respond, which again goes back to the fact that we're not all equal, but we're pretending that we're all equal. And because if we are, then we can have Sadie Hawkins world and we can just expect men to be women and to be the passive person, the passive party in all sexual relationships. Now, Rola, you tell me with my eugenics reference earlier, is it so hyperbolic? If you put that in context with what you just said, I don't think it is. No, I don't think so. I think that from, I mean, really what is eugenics? I mean, let's even if you just break that down. I mean, people don't like that word because it's like the Nazis tried to do eugenics, but really what are women doing right now? They are in control of a very broad eugenics program. That's what, I mean, because they are the ones who decide, and that's what hypergamy is all about. It's about women controlling where the species is going to go genetically. And that's why hypergamy is really what we built our social order around. Anything that can benefit women. And I mean, when we think about this way, when we started giving women the vote and we started giving women more femme powerment and we started unfettering hypergamy and we started making them more strong independent women, what did they do with that? Did they take that and start trying to cure cancer? Did they take all that great opportunity to go and advance the human species? No, what they did was they advanced hypergamy that much more. That's why we're at where we are right now because we've built a social structure. And that's why I always call this the feminine primary social order because we've built an entire social structure around satisfying hypergamy for the most amount of women irrespective of what those women's real sexual market value would be. So any woman can have access to a hot guy or should have access to a hot guy which is why we're seeing this me too thing come up or we're seeing a enthusiastic consent come up. That's also another article I read was about I think it's in Sweden and there is a guy who is proposing legislature that says only consensual sex is if it's not enthusiastic consent, then it is rape basically. And I said exactly that this is where this enthusiastic consent appeal was going to go. And of course all feminists said, no, no, it's not like that. It's gray areas sex. It's the sex we have, but we don't really wanna have. And that's why I wrote that article about transactional sex and versus validational sex. And that really was prompted by the enthusiastic consent thing because I knew that this was coming and sure as shit not even a month later or maybe one month later Sweden has this law that says if it's not enthusiastic consent, it is rape. In marriage, if she's not into it and if she's just giving you starfish sex you just raped her. It's illegal to be bad in bed but the fuck world are we living in now? So rape is not the default for sex basically in Sweden less than until she's, yeah, that's insane. We had the convention, the 21 convention in Sweden not seven, eight years ago. That's fucking nuts. I fucked a girl and I was there. Maybe I shouldn't even say that. What's gonna happen is there's gonna be some chick or some feminist is gonna hear me tweet this or she's gonna hear this, hear me say this and she's gonna go, well, it's not that bad. It hasn't got to that point right now. There's no legislature against that yet. Yet in the United States. And it's not like it's something that's happening left and right. But the fact is that it's there and it's part of our operative environment right now. So even if it's not necessarily a law in the United States it looks like it's going to become one in Sweden and that's the test benefit for all this kind of stuff. I remember when the yes means yes thing came out in the UC campuses or I think it was only in the California UC campuses where yes means yes. So a woman has to say yes to this, yes to this, yes to this, yes to this. Now I was talking to Dalrock about that and Dalrock said, this is going to spread to be our common conversation about sexual consent. And I go, yeah, probably is. And then sure enough, that's one of the reasons why we have these real ambiguous ideas of what sexual misconduct is right now because of the Me Too movement. There's a lot of money that's wrapped up in popularizing that idea. Now what's gonna happen when enthusiastic consent becomes the popular idea, you know, where we and how we're gonna legislate for that? Well, Sweden's already showing us how that's gonna, how that's possible and how it's gonna happen. One that to, I wasn't trying to thought on that, brain fart, damn it. Well, I mean, It's something important too. Oh yeah, there's no boost that I had. Last time I did. Well, I wanted to say that even people who disagree with you, men and women both, right? They can't deny or they will deny but it's just fucking stupid that the total direction in the West right now is towards what you're talking about. So yeah, we don't have the legislation yet, but give it a year, give it two years, give it three years or whatever. Everything's set up for that to happen, whether or not it does, you know, tomorrow or a year from now or five years from now. And I think that's kind of important to keep in mind that we're set up. If you look at all this push for like sex positivity and we have like, we don't wanna shame women for their sexuality, right? We wanna unleash the furry women, right? We want to have, we wanna have slut marches and we want to say, you know, still not asking for it even though I'm dressed up in lingerie and everything else, you know? We want to normalize that as part of just women, everyday women, just being able to walk around with their boobs hanging out, you know? And yet we're gonna expect men to have control over themselves and not to be aroused by that or not to even really look at that or just to, you know, nod your head and go, you know, business as usual, right? But yeah, it's whatever, you know? But I mean, think about it this way, like why is it that we can have that but yet prostitution is still illegal? Why in most, I'm not in my state, but in most places prostitution is supposed to be illegal if it's not, then it's, you know, sort of under the table kind of thing. Why is that illegal? Why is using escorts illegal? You know, but yet we can still do, but it's okay to do sugar daddying. It's okay to do the sugaring or seeking arrangements kind of thing. It's okay for that, but it's not okay to do prostitution. Why? Because one is a direct means for men to access sex, whereas those other ways are ways that they would have to qualify themselves and still put the control of that sexual act into, it puts it in the hands of men rather than in women. That's why rape is such a big deal. Maybe we was just reading another article saying, do men rape because it's a power thing? Because if you say that it's not, women will scream up one and wallow down the other about how, oh, it's a power thing. It's men wanting to hurt women. You know, it's a reproductive strategy. I'm sorry, but that's really the nuts and bolts of it. Why has rape been such a thing ever since the dawn of humanity? It's because men taking into control, you know, in the most direct way that they can, the course of their own genetics. Yeah, very much like a cook holding. And yeah, exactly. It's again, it's cuckolding for that rape is basically cuckolding for women. It's such an old cliche. Like you ever heard that where if a girl gets raped and they go to the cops? No, you go talk to your brothers and they'll sort it out. So it's not even a female only thing. Like everybody kind of, everybody's on board. To the point where it's at the, it's the, I guess it's a Boston thing where it's like, yeah, go talk to your brothers. They'll sort it out. And I don't kind of rambling here, but yeah, you get where I'm going with this, right? Yeah, well, it's take the justice into your own hands. And that's another thing I've been talking about where it's like women making the, my last post, I was saying that, you know, women have developed such a sense of false security when it comes to guys like, it pushes them into acting out or being hostile with the assurances that there's gonna be some guys around them to take care of them and to make sure that if it escalates to being a physical confrontation, that they're gonna be okay. My boyfriend will kick your ass. Yeah, yeah, let's, let's you and him fight. That's what that rolls down to. But again, like the, one more thing, just the prostitution side of things, really what's, what is, what is a flesh light or a sex bot or, you know, they may get more and more real, what is that solving? What problem is that solving for men that women don't want to be solved for them? It's the sexuality because they know that that is their only real true agency over men. So they need to be able to control that. They need to be able to control it with everything from birth control, like we've been talking about to abortion, to limiting men's access to even, you know, fuck dolls. Speaking of fuck dolls, I wanted to get back on that. Let's do it all. Yes, and then we need to happen some questions after that too, I think. So, but final point on this guys, well, hang on a second here. So let's assume that there's initial pushback to sex but robots, like we're seeing in different countries and things like that. I think that's pretty par for the course and that should be expected. I think though in a long enough time span, three years, five years, 10 years, whatever it takes, I think you will see cheap, advanced, inexpensive sex robots hitting the market. It's gonna break through kind of like porn. Porn is, you know, super hot, you can get 4K ultra HD porn for free at this point, right, all over the internet. So let's assume that happens. How is the average 25 year old or 30 year old or 35 year old woman gonna respond to that when the reality of that hits her in the face, the men are opting out like the sexivist from the S&P on a new level? Well, I kind of see this as to perspective. One is as a substitute product, that women are such a pain in the ass to deal with that I'm a sex bot is never going to be able to replace a woman, but if it replaces a woman at 10% of the cost of a woman, then a lot of guys are gonna go for them just because it's cheaper and easier. They're already 10% equals. Well, you know, very few people think that McDonald's is the best food in the world, but it's cheap and it's everywhere. Well, I also need to consider, you know, we're talking about the dropout generation is like we wanna say that these lost boys or these broken boys are just gonna sit in front of the TV and play World of Warcraft and jerk off and smoke pot and then order pizza or something and they're just gonna be self-contained. They're gonna be the Hikiko Mori kids in, you know, in Japan, but they still have sexual needs. How do you sell a sex bot above like, say, free online porn? It's like, what makes that experience that much better? So you got the real thing. You got sex with a woman that you're gonna have to solve a lot of problems for to do that. Then you've got, maybe you can buy a woman. I mean, you look at McDonald's right now. I think that's, I'm not saying that they all do this. Of course, I know that there's very indigrees of McTow. But, I mean, part of that, I talk to guys all the time who say, I use escorts, you know, I save up my money and I live the way I want to. And whenever I feel like the need to go out and have human contact, I go to Amsterdam or I'll go to, you know, to, I'll go to Mounthouse, Nevada, which is only a few, 20 minutes away. I'll go to sugardaddies.com or sugardaddies.com. Yeah, I got an introduction just for like a small plug to Amsterdam. Oh my God, I went there in January. It's like Disneyland minus the consumerism. Every adult male should go. Bring your girlfriend, bring your wife. It's a fucking hoot. I mean, I'm in Amsterdam at least once a year. But yeah, I mean, it's just saying, what's the threshold there for that guy? I mean, whether you have to sort of decide, you know, if it's a McTow guy, or if it's like, I mean, I know, like, I don't mean to put you on the spot here, Anthony, but I know that you use seeking arrangements sometime. I mean, is that anything like, I mean, he's already used it all the time. I'm Orlando's number one salt daddy, is actually what my term is, salt daddy, no sugar daddy. No, I mean, and so, so what's the, I mean, do you think, I mean, we should ask you, do you think that it's easier to do that than it is to like, to run game? Cause what's the point of learning game if you're just going to use, you're just going to use why even bother with that? Well, I don't, so what I'm doing is I don't pay them. I'm using game to get access to better looking women. The women on seeking arrangement honestly look better than Tinder. It's not a huge bump, but it's a significant bump. So that's why I use it. And it's fun. It's, I'm not gonna lie, it's kind of a rush. You're, it's like navigating this like foreign kind of Tinder that's very different. Interesting. But is that different? Like, is that different from like, say sugar daddy, like women who got in sugar, and they have like arrangements where they've got, is that different or is that? It's different because I go to the alpha route. So I don't pay them. And the reason they keep, so they fuck me usually more than once. And the reason they fuck me more than once that getting paid is cause they like me. So, and usually that's a parent through phone a little bit and then they meet me. And then it's like, whoa, they don't really need the money probably. They have other guys, they're gonna, they can and will go bang and then get paid instead of arrangements. Salt daddy is just like they call me is actually a term. They're using the service. And then that, you know, you're doing this to bang girls for free. And they have needs like every other girl, they have alpha needs, just like they have beta needs and they're gonna be optimizing itself. So that's almost like them trying to solve their own unique like sexual strategy, just like guys do. Like guys, if I, we were just talking about dudes who would, you know, just simply opt for pornography, you know, jerk off and then go back to whatever it is that they were doing. You know, sugar baby is easy. But for women, there's two sides of that. There's the guy that they don't want to use their sexuality to transactionally. And then there's the guy that they want to have sex with validation. Yep. And I am, I'm hacking that kind of process in a very explicit way. And it's a lot of fun kind of figuring it out and navigating it and goofing around on it. And I'm not saying it's risk-free, but it's pretty fun and guys should try it. So, okay. Do we have any questions coming up here? Yeah, let's get into that. Yeah. Brian, let me keep an eye on the chat too, right? I think I'll see you in there sometime. I've been on and off. Yeah, guys, for those of you watching, feel free to ask questions and we'll dig into them. We have some time left. I know Sam Bota is in there. Yay. Hi, Sam. Yep. Reminder too, guys, that the Jack Murphy link is at the top of this video description underneath the video. Jack Murphy is a confirmed speaker at this point. We're close talks for him speaking this year at the convention. And he has gone through a lot of shit for his views and his blog and his life. He got docs and all kinds of major problems. So, check out that link. Read about what Jack Murphy has going on and pitch into his legal defense fund. It's very much appreciated. Super chat he sent on YouTube. Go to 21 Studios, you're supporting that. But at this point or for this show dedicating it to Jack Murphy. Well, if I can throw in a novel observation before we go to the question round. I think part of the reason why feminists and some women hate porn so much, it raises the bar for them. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, you touched that one. I hear that, I hear what you're saying, Carl, I'll be brief, I promise. I hear women say that all the time and I've got a post that I've had up for a long time called Women's Physical Standards when it comes to guys. But part of that post is how pornography sort of puts the lie to that idea that it is creating guys who have these unrealistic standards. Because if you go and you read that, there's this book, like I said, called A Billion Wicked Thoughts. And in that, it sort of breaks down the porn watching habits of guys. And while it's true that most of those guys are looking for young, hot, tight women, there's also women who are skinny, women who are fat, black women, Asian women. I mean, you just run down to all the different niches of porn that have come up just in the decade or maybe two decades span of online pornography. And it sort of just shows you that it's not just one type, it's not just this big giant tits with blonde hair and blue eyes and the Jenna Jamison model. It's like everything from amateur porn all the way up to midget porn, you know? Yeah, that's what I was referring to. The physical standards thing, it's very clear in dataclysm and in A Billion Wicked Thoughts and a lot of other research. What I was referring to is performance-wise. Because one thing, no, because one thing, you can talk about the acts that porn stars and amateur porn stars, et cetera, do on screen. Those are, yeah, that's one thing, but they're all enthusiastic, they're all into it. And that's what the guys like. And I think that's what the guys go for. Have you guys heard the saying that a good blow job is 90% enthusiasm and 10% technique? I think that equates to sex, 100%. And really, when you hear that, oh, this puts unrealistic standards, it puts unrealistic standards for a guy that doesn't make them tingle. You get them to tingle and they will put the enthusiasm in and the only difference being great sex and bad sex is enthusiasm. Hey guys, speaking of questions, I put a few in the group chat here. We have privately, so I posted three of them there. And also, for those of you watching the live stream, we have a Facebook group for the 21 convention and 21 studios where we discuss a lot of these issues and speakers participate, such as Richard Cooper and Alan Roger Curry and guys like that. The name of the Facebook group is called Becoming the Ideal Men. Do you go to Facebook, type that up, check it out, Becoming the Ideal Men. As far as questions, Rollo, Ryan, Carl, do you wanna hit these that I put in there? Yeah, let's do those. I have to head out like in another 20 minutes. Okay, so first question was a discussion or a chat about the Maryland shooter and how he was love sick, that teen narrative, but love sick teen narrative. I saw you, I think, tweet about this, Rollo. Yeah, I did. I actually, I think I dug it up or somebody tweeted it to me, but there's a series of girls who are very upset that they were even using the term love sick because there's this presumption amongst, and I'm just gonna say a younger set, there's this presumption that boys should be able to just handle the rejection of women and handle the reject, well, let's just say girls. Teenage boys should be able to handle the rejection of teenage girls. And to take no for an answer and to not go shoot up the school as an emotional outburst because of that. Really what we've seen, and today we have the march against the shooters or whatever the new hashtag march is today, but we've seen two shootings and what do those two shootings have in common? They have the commonality is that they're with, they were these kind of loser kids who were experiencing rejection from an ex-girlfriend. And even Nicholas Cruz was the same way. You can go and you just look up Nicholas Cruz's girlfriend or ex-girlfriend and you will see the chat and the, yeah, the IMs that she had or he had with her and with her new boyfriend and how he was gonna kill the new boyfriend. And that was him acting out. And so the same thing happened with this new kid and I wanna say was it in DC? I think it was in DC. And it's exactly the same motive. And I posted this when I first heard about the shooting I said, you will see that this kid will have come from a single mother parent or a weak father, an absent father or a single mother as his parent and he will be reacting to being, having been rejected by a girlfriend. And sure enough, it was 100% right of that. And I said, now here's what's gonna happen. They're going to turn this around or the narrative is gonna turn this around and they're gonna make it about how we're teaching these boys through patriarchal masculinity to be these killers, to solve their problems with a gun. When in fact, it's the reason that they, the reason that they're solving a problem with a gun is because they don't know how to handle rejection because they are so bereft of masculine influence in their lives. And so again, like what I said about Nicholas Cruz, I said, this is a kid who's come from the participation trophy generation who doesn't know how to deal with defeat who doesn't know how to deal with rejection and embraces his emotional side and acts out like a petulant girl only he does it with a handgun. And because they can't say anything about the officer that shot him and preventing a probably a larger tragedy than it was, they can't go that route. So the route that they're gonna go is they're gonna say, they're gonna blame it all on toxic masculinity and they're gonna say that's the reason he did that when in fact, it's exactly the opposite because you don't see school shooters coming from well-adjusted man in the family, traditional conventional masculine, raised in that environment. You don't see that happen. You're seeing these losers doing that. So yeah, when they are love sick, they get love sick because these same kids believe in the emotional side of things. They believe that the best way to be a boy is to be a good human I should say is to emote and to be more like a girl. And so they lash out like this. Well, there's also, and I'd like to maybe get some input on this for another question. There's also like zero recognition or almost zero recognition for the I believe school resource officer who intervened in this recent shooting and stopped it, who I believe was a man. And so he's doing his job, but he actually did it unlike in Parkland. And this requires an element of masculinity. Law enforcement is a very physical job and that's an excellent example of it that will absolutely not be recognized. Well, and then the thing about this kid is when the reason that they have such a problem with the term love sick is because it goes back to what I call the soulmate myth and oneitis. And you're talking about a kid who had obviously had oneitis for this girl. And I have dealt with so, so many guys, both young and old, but primarily younger guys who believe in the soulmate myth. And they've been taught this from the time they were five years old to think that there's only one person for them and that if they lose that person, they can't live without that person. And in some cases, literally. Now, everybody knows the story of my brother-in-law who hung himself because he had oneitis, because he had, he went and offed himself. He didn't off anybody else, but he killed himself because he literally could not live without his wife who was gonna divorce him. Well, what kind of pisses me off about the whole narrative is for 30 goddamn years, they've been saying men need to externalize their emotions. They need to stop locking everything in. And the school shooters, they're men externalizing their emotions because they've never been told to control them and put them towards productive ends. But every guy who has a father figure or who has been in the military like Ryan, you have moments where you wanna punch someone the fuck out, but some other man tells you, listen, yes, I realize you wanna beat the shit out of him right now, but if you cool down for about five minutes, we'll go have a beer and you'll get over it and you won't feel like going to jail over that asshole in two days. And that's what these boys are lacking, facing failure, being told by a man that it'll be okay, it feels crushing now, but you'll get over it. Speaking of that, Ryan, do you wanna put on that? I was just gonna do the three answers, but if you wanna do your thing first, please do. No, I just wanted to move on to the third question, actually. It seemed like a bit of a segue off of Carl was saying, so another question from a live viewer was, is the best PUA mindset similar as a red to a red pill mindset or is it different? All right, well, I'll lead on that one. For the PUA thing, that's fairly easy. I would say PUA is to red pill, what crawling is to walking. I think it's a good start. It's a tool for the toolbox. It's not, they're not equivalent. It's just an elevation up. Back to the first question, it was exactly as Carl was saying, like you need, and it's not even so much a dad. I would say a dad is the easiest way to have it, but you need a masculine figure to teach you how to accept failure. And like I said, I never had it in the same way. My parents got divorced when I was five. My stepdad was fairly brutish and I rebelled against the family by not being him, which I'm sure most guys have that same story. My dad was alpha and I taught him that I would never treat a girl the way he treated my mom, even though my mom stuck with him for 20 years. But the military was a good experience and that other guys showed me when I failed how to accept it with some light humor and move on from it. Now that's the big problem with the school shootings is that nobody's there for them for that. And it's not there for them and like we need hugs. We don't need hugs. We need a fucking kick in the ass. Like just fuck, relax, she dumped you. She's gonna fuck some other dude, relax, you'll get over it. There's gonna be at least six other girls in the next two years, trust me. It's interesting you say that, Ryan, and I think Roland met when I jumped in on this. In the state of Florida, for example, I believe a lot of money was just in a bill signed by the governor is now gonna be put into schools in a number of ways. And one of those ways by the millions is like mental health stuff. So basically counseling for these kids in school and things like that. Fuck that. But all that shit that was gonna be blue pill, it's gonna make the problem fucking worse at best. We got a couple guys that are actually, since they've got red pills with their wives, they've gone on to get their marriage counseling certificates because they wanna pass it on and they realize like, holy fuck, is this what they're teaching people? Like what the fuck are you doing? And they teach the worst examples. They're throwing money, good money after bad to solve a problem that has been created by the feminine primary social order right now. I mean, look at how we teach our boys. Look at how many, look, I just bought this book. It was called The Fall of Boys or something like that. And it's by Dr. Warren Farrell, who I have sort of mixed feelings about these days. But I think this is a great book because it's got a lot of the statistics and the research. He definitely does this homework whenever he does a book. But we look at just for the past four or five generations and I've been talking about this a lot, even in my own, my third book and Positive Masculinity about how we have such a feminine primary teaching and education system these days where it's like, we don't even have any male teachers anymore. I mean, really in the United States. I didn't realize that was the last generation to have that. 77% of all teachers in public education or even up into the college level are women. And the men that are there, maybe they're a coach or maybe they're a math teacher or something like that. But primarily it is women that are teaching generation after generation of these kids. Again, that sort of goes back to what we're talking about how now we have given women the capacity to control hypergamy with birth control and all that that we were talking about earlier. And then what happens then we give our children over to women and say, here's the women or here's the children that you have been responsible for. And now you're going to take that the step further and you're going to be the village that teaches the kid. You're going to be the collective and it's just going to be women who are going to teach boys and girls as if they're equals once again. But yet, but really they're going to prefer teaching styles that are pro-feminine. They're going to teach our boys as if they are defective girls. And when you just look at just the complex nature of our education system and how we teach boys as if they are girls, it's no shock when we have a kid who we want to call lovesick goes off and shoots people or shoots the girls. I think the girl died as well by the way because he can't deal with that rejection. Well, how is he supposed to? Because we think that any form of conventional masculinity is misogyny. We think it's toxic, any kind of masculinity whatsoever is toxic. Well, not just that. They assume it's also innate. Like he should just automatically know. They don't realize that things are learned. It's like there needs to be somebody telling him how to deal with this stuff. What are they going to do in Florida? They're going to throw a shit ton of money at mental health because it's a problem that has been created by the same people who are throwing money to try to solve that problem once again. And almost all of those mental health professionals, so to speak, are going to be effective until thinking that causes the problem or contributes to it. It's not going to solve anything. It's not going to solve a damn thing because we look at fathers and we look at conventionally masculine men as evil. And we look at fathers as superfluous. They're nice to have around, but they're not necessary to a child's development because a woman can do everything. Because remember, women are strong and independent and they're equal to men. We're all equals, right? We're not going to talk about the blank slate or any of that kind of stuff. We're all equals and they should just know that. That should just be part of being a boy is to know how to toughen up, right? But then if we have a man teach them to toughen up or kick them in the ass as Ryan was saying, then he's an asshole for that. And the only time we bring men into the conversation is we go, where's this kid's father? We've got another kid that killed some people at it. It killed his girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, whatever. Killed some other kids. And we go, where's the dad? They're happy to have him as a scapegoat, but he's not necessary for any other part of that? I don't think so. Where were you 10 years ago to ask where the fuck he was, essentially? Oh, and then anyways, I just want to tell you as far as the pickup artistry goes, I think PUA is a necessary part of every guy's development in the Red Pill. I think that I look at PUA and really game. I don't know if these guys want to, I don't know if they're even doing this now, but are we separating PUA from game? I mean, because I think, when I think of pickup artistry, I think of game, and when I think of game, I think of that as the practice of the Red Pill. On our side, well, I think that this does, I haven't seen them separating it. Yeah, are they trying to separate game from pickup artist game? Is there like something different? Yes, but only in like a fake it till you make it sense. I'll leave it there and let you guys take over. But one of the things that came to mind when I heard this question and heard Ryan talking about it is I've had a long history in the pickup artist community, just being involved with them in a number of ways. And I can tell you definitively, and you guys know this, but it needs to be voiced, the Red Pill community and that movement on Reddit and the surrounding blogs, the very concept of masculinity in a conventional sense is taken way more seriously by like everyone. In the PUA community, that topic is barely even mentioned or discussed. And that to me, it's a huge fucking difference. The mindset and the movement and the community and the interactions and then books and media and things like that. Well, because I look at the guys from RSD right now and you and I have had this conversation several times before. And I see these guys really leaning over into like the power of positive thinking kind of sales pitch mentality right now. And I always ask, are they even still doing game? Are they still doing infield stuff? Are they still going out and showing techniques and all this? Because it seems to me like there's been a separation between what I would call traditional conventional game and what pickup artists are selling and pitching as, yeah. Is it PUA game and then there's some other game or is it just game? Because when I think of PUA, depending on who I'm thinking of, and when I think of PUA, I think of Nick Krausser. I think of Tom Terraro. I think of Goldman. I think of Christian McQueen. These are the guys that I think have really good game and they incorporate red pill awareness into their game. And I think that if you're going to do pickup artistry, I think you need to have a full and complete education when it comes to that. You need to be red pill aware and understand why what you are doing is working. Because I think too many PUA guys get in there and they go, okay, I just wanna know, how can I get a girlfriend? Or how can I get into a pants? Or how can I get more girls? And then you go, okay, I'll show you this X, Y, and Z and you learn these techniques and you learn this script and everything. And it's just, you know, they commit it to memory and it's not really become who they are, but they'll do that, they'll get a girl and they'll go, all right, cool, I'm done. Thanks, man, you know, I'll go off it. And they get themselves into trouble because they're not red pill aware. And I always say that game is the practice. Well, red pill is the theory and one informs the other. So game informs red pill and red pill informs game. I can tell you guys some insider information that it's not super common, but it's common enough that it happens and I hear about it from former speakers and stuff like that, that a student or a client will buy a bootcamp, like an RST type bootcamp for a weekend or whatever, he'll have some success, he'll learn how to get numbers and get makeouts and he'll actually, in the rare cases, banging a girl on that weekend and then he'll end up fucking dating her against the advice of whatever coach it is, like, you know, screaming at them, like, dude, you need to not do that. And it's absolutely, no, man, I got it. Thanks for the weekend, it was fucking great. And then of course, they end up back as clients when the red pill or something else, you know, six months later, when they get fucked over or worse. They get themselves into trouble. Yeah, they get themselves into trouble. But it literally happens in the middle of a bootcamp. That good? Well, I was gonna say, I'd like to think of it, you can understand game and not be red pill. You can't be red pill and not understand game. Because if you know the theory, you might not necessarily be able to apply it as well as someone who does what a lot of guys do and spend two, three years of their lives doing approaches 40 hours a week. But if you're a red pill, you understand the underlying dynamics. So it's a matter of applying something you've already been trained to do. That's like being someone who's a university trained in engineering. Hey guys, I got a role. I got a guy I got to talk to here. So I'm gonna head out and you'll put all the links in the bottom, I presume. Oh, they're already there. Yep, thanks for having me. All right guys, I'll see you next week. See you then, appreciate you being on. Yep, I don't know Ryan either. No, but I had one more thing I wanted to hit on, ref the conversation between Raul and Ryan and that was women are incredibly binary thinkers. Now, what I mean by that is, I've noticed with self improvement that most guys, even if we disagree with the direction a guy has decided to improve himself in, we can appreciate the effort and the progress he's made. Women can't appreciate a guy improving himself because in their mind, he's either in or he's out. So for them, if he transitions from out to being in, they can't think of him as being out. But if he goes from in to being out, they can't think of him as ever being in. And it's incredibly interesting when you see it because that's where you get the, he should just get it perspective because women don't see men who do not get it. They assume every guy gets it because they can't see anyone who doesn't. And if he doesn't, then he's just a girl with a penis, basically. Well, Rallo is kind of saying that women have girlfriends and boyfriends. If you're not fucking earlier, you're a girlfriend. But yeah, I don't go, I would go, I don't know if it's further, but I would add to that that I don't even think most women, maybe all women in some sense or in some deep sense, they really don't even believe the concept that a man can change from like beta to alpha. Like that perception change for them is nonsensical. Like absolutely does not happen. Well, it's a brilliant thing I've noticed and not to give away too much, but I've worked with a lot of different IT departments around different countries. And the funniest frickin' thing you, because a lot of the guys' staff, IT departments, they're typically overweight, underdressed, under-trained and have no game. And what you notice is if they try to talk to a woman in the cafeteria, she won't give them the time of day. The second her computer doesn't turn on, she's in their office and she's speaking their language. They will immediately adapt to the guy's frequency when they need him to fix something for her. But they would never do that if they don't need him. Yeah, oh, if there's something to gain from it, people learn real fuckin' past. Yeah, well, all of a sudden, betas are real friendly and real useful. Oh yeah, betas everywhere. Transactional. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I think it's like a rule of said, yeah, it's literally like the least amount of sexual currency you can give to get the achieved outcome. Sometimes it's just a smile and a little bit of leg. Sometimes it's even less than that. Sometimes it's just being pleasant. Oh yeah, there's a post by Roycy on Chateau Hartiste. He talks about how they control betas by giving out the minimum amount of sex possible, or as you're saying, sexuality, even just being friendly I think can pull that off in some cases. And I've seen that for sure. Any amount of ego validation. Well, the most extreme story I know of is a guy who, this was a guy, he went from his house to a girl's house at three o'clock in the morning to fix her computer. I'm sure he fixed it too. I'm sure it was working. I got a mute, I'm gonna laugh a bit, fuck. Yeah, but the best part about the story is while when he fixed it, he noticed that the reason why it broke involved a webcam show she was doing for another guy. Yeah, those are great. You can use your iPhone for that and other girls on FaceTime. I mean, in theory, I would never do that with a woman. Like, there's no way, you know. It's frustrating as fuck. Anybody who knows IT is like, I am not helping you fix your computer because you're fucking gonna kill my brain. Jesus. With that said gentlemen, unless there's any closing remarks, I think we should wind down the show. Anything you two wanted to input before I wind down for the day? It's been about two hours now. I'll go, I have a blog post. No, I have a blog post coming this week that I think will be a very interesting blog post. It deals with one of the differences between groups in the red pill that we talked about last podcast. Okay, cool. I look forward to it. I think I retweet every single blog post here is so I will be retweeting it like usual. Yeah, reading is not retweeting Anthony. Yeah. What? Reading is not retweeting or what is it? Retweeting is not reading. Oh, I agree. I read almost all of them, but I retweet them no matter what and I'll read 90% of them. So it will be read. It will be read. I love your blog, Carl. It's one of the best in the red pill. Yours and Rollo's by far. Good thanks. Yeah, it took me a while to actually learn to read it properly. So yeah, I'll give it credit where it's due. It's smarter than me, so. And the only thing I'll add to this is I know some of the feedback I've been getting is it's very, like a lot of our conversations are, well, this is the way it is. And it's kind of got a feeling of helplessness infecting some people. The one thing I would like to impart on people when they're reading this or listening to this is like, understand this is more just us discussing and working out the rules of the game. Once you have the rules, it's a very easy way ahead. Like you min-max your physical game, learn your pickup artist game. Like you get this stuff down and you realize when we talk about these guys that are losing in the SMV that all you have to do is be not that guy and you can succeed. So if you take nothing else from these podcasts, and I think we're in, what's number five now, four? Five. Five, yeah. If you take nothing else from this, you're learning about what are the winning and losing behaviors in your life. And I would really suggest that you take these and adapt them to your life so you don't do stupid things that self-sabotage you because that's the biggest problem that any guy who has ever come on my side of the fence anyway, with the married or the normal red pill has talked about with their failures. It's 90% self-sabotaging behaviors. So if you just stop stepping on your own dick, it's amazing what you've been accomplished. It's actually... I had that exact experience at a very, that's super deep level, but when I was in college, when I was still going on approaching, I couldn't quite get laid consistently yet. I've been laid like once or twice at that point. I was getting a couple of girls, and there came a point where I was like, man, the only thing at this point, I've been going off like a year at that point. It's like the only thing that's stopping me from banging girls, like same that way after same that way, it's me. Like these girls are not the fucking problem. The environment, it's not great, but it's not the problem. I'm shooting myself in the foot and these girls wanna fuck me. And when that clicked for me. Yeah, exactly. And when that clicked for me on a deep level, that's when I started getting laid consistently. And I'm not like some fucking guru, but that was the point where it came together for me internally. And it was awesome. You kinda are though. I don't mean to like throw blow smoke up your ass, but the bar for like the top 20% has just dropped so much that the littlest bit of effort, and you just jump into it. You're like, you're a top 10% male by default almost, which is good for you. I don't wanna mitigate any effort you put into it, but yeah, it's how easy it can be. No, I'm looking forward to it. Like I've made some serious mistakes in my life, but I'm about to be 30. I'm gonna have no debt, an awesome company. You know, I have a long history of banging girls all over the place. I have good game with it. And I don't have an STDs or any children either. So it's like, I have a great, I have a great, you know, simple shit, like no drug problems, no children. If you had a choice, which one would you take? Which one would you take? A permanent STD or a permanent eight year old sport? A permanent what? A child support or an STD for 18 years? Oh God, that's a good question, that's a good question. Because 18 years, the technology might exist if the West doesn't collapse to fix the STD. So I don't know, that's a good question. That's a good point. I would take the STD because there's no chance technology will make honor killings and or child support payments to go away. So yeah, probably the STD. Yeah, it's a good question. It's a good question because it highlights, it's a thought experiment that highlights the issue. Like, what's more, you know, what's a bigger fucking problem for your life and both are huge. So if you want to look at it this way, in either case, you have to give something to a girl and might as well be something she did. Oh my God, oh my God. Wait, syphilis you can cure, right? I'm thinking like type two herpes or hepatitis. I don't want to give the gift that keeps on given, like Jesus, I'm not a monster. Okay. With that said gentlemen, our discussion of syphilis, type two herpes and you know, child support. I'm gonna wind down, appreciate both of you coming on as well as Donovan and Rollo who just signed off recently. Links to all these guys, Sideskies are in the video description along with the Jack Murphy link. That's the, this show episode is dedicated to Jack Murphy and his legal fund. Pitch into that, check out, you know, Black Labelogic's blog, Ryan's Twitter, his posts on Reddit. And you can follow my Twitter and stuff and Rollo and all them as well. Thanks for tuning the show guys. Appreciate the super chats. Appreciate you pitching in to Jack Murphy. Appreciate you guys tuning in live and chatting and asking questions. Very much appreciated. Ryan and Carl, thank you very much for signing on again with the Redman Group in 21 Live. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Cool. Stay on guys, I'm gonna close the live stream. See you guys.