 the largest number of pieces which you know which colors are the most popular whatever and it says huh to answer that question what I would do is take this table and this table and look them up and and so let me do that for you and write some code it's using pandas and kind of all kinds of weird analytical stuff that I have none nothing about it does it does natural language processing too in those bunch of nlp libraries and you know so instead of being able to answer it like if you have a bunch of text that's larger than its context window you know it still knows how to operate it because of large language or sorry nlp libraries so anyway it's uh mind-blowing mind-blowingly cool thank you for sharing that I didn't know is that an advance I just keep that being astonished by how advanced everything is the mistakes it makes is are really fascinating too so it'll make a mistake like oops I forgot you know that this library wouldn't work for that or something like that and it recovers or it sometimes like the data that data I had somebody mislabeled they didn't properly label a column and it figured it out it's like oops that wasn't you know what I was looking for let me let me re rejigger and recalculate this is chat gpt with code interpreter Francia so interesting Chris great to see you too pleasure my wife has been changing jobs so we're taking some vacation time and I'm dealing with some other famous stuff so you're really uh sounds like your microphone's covered or something yeah your volume's really low we can hear you about your volume's really low let me see if I can figure out it sounds like you're in a goldfish bowl no worries thanks maybe is that better yes yes suddenly like way better we got to tell it to use the better microphone I guess ah usually it just does it automatically jitzy worlds so so your wife and something um she was changing jobs so she took a month of huge vacation time off so we did that and between that and summer camp with the kids and some traveling um in fact actually next week I'll be going Wednesday too um in the the icy reaches of um North Alaska whoa is where we're gonna be so it's great I doubt there's gonna be a good enough wi-fi signal to trick to try so we'll see what happens but between that and some family health issues that you know asking me saying f cancer every day you know crap but we're here I don't know if I know anything anything super new and super exciting off because they're my notes the last couple weeks because I'm sure there's one or two fascinating things but um I have gone back to experiment around with some wicked media stuff but I don't think I've got anything too astounding to report there what kind of stuff um I've been writing some custom code to make it a little more uh loom unasked zettle cast and friendly but I don't think I've made the breakthrough I want yet but you know there's some interesting so wiki media or media wiki or wikipedia or um specific to uh well it's so right now it's just a small custom install of the original media wiki I think it's I think it's the bleeding edge version right now um but I'm just doing some like small custom code stuff that I may turn into a plugin to do one or two bits although I have found some fun little loop arounds that don't require any plugins at all which I find fascinating but are not commonly seen or used in many installs so or none that I've seen thus far so we'll see so it's good to see everybody though yeah same here glancing I'm sorry I wasn't able to get together with you when I was three hours away but uh you're muted yeah sorry and I was saying it's really fine I imagine you were very busy I mean with it it was good I had a day on Saturday but it didn't work out like uh my flight was early home on Sunday and there was no early train to get from Zurich back to Geneva early enough to sort of make it all yeah thanks for the ride yeah so how do you find the Geneva Geneva was cool I am on Saturday I went to the old town which I'd never sort of walked through which is beautiful I didn't realize that Geneva was kind of a fortress for the Reformation uh when Martin Lutheran and so forth came in nobody liked the Protestants very much and and Geneva offered them a an actual fortress because it had bastions that had big walls and they celebrate every year a holiday called Les Calade when they basically turned away invaders because their walls were too hard to scale and right next to the central cathedral of St. Peter's there's a first under the cathedral there's a little door with a little sign just a gate on the right hand side here's the main entrance with big Roman columns and then on the right there's this little gate and I'm like I wonder what that is and then I go go downstairs and under the entire cathedral the length of the cathedral and weaving like a rabbit warren is an archaeological museum of what they found under the cathedral and with a tremendous amount of open space like you can see clear across and you're under the entire cathedral and I don't know how they did it whoever did it had a fabulous sense for Jenga for archaeological exhibits and it was lovely so so first I find that and then later I come back and I find that next door there's a a reformation museum where they had two super interesting things one was right up front there's a room with an exhibit of children's art who have survived genocides everything from Nazi persecution to Afghanistan to Syria to whatever else it was really moving and there were some people there were some people interpreting the art talking about it very seriously and really like interesting ways and you were it just felt very too close too close to the action even though it was drawing as well after the fact it was just like wow nobody should be going through any of this stuff and then second down in the bottom sort of in the basement they had a lovely exhibit where they had a couple of historical figures who were talking about slavery in one instance and then that the topics shifted but they hadn't the whole idea was to provoke conversation among visitors and the slavery dialogue was really really really good and interesting and you know it was Martin Luther King and a few other characters kind of I think Aquinas and a few others just kicking kicking the ball around but in a in a very thoughtful way and I was like okay that's that's above and beyond what a normal museum would be trying to do and then a couple other things just sort of in the exhibit and I'm not a big fan of organized religion but it was pretty impressive what they what they've done with the whole collection you found a 10 million flip subtle custom yes 10 million slips written by the Bavarian royal family or what happened um no it's the um in the late 1800s a bunch of latin scholars decided they wanted to compile a dictionary of every ancient latin word from the beginning of the language to about the sixth century so like the OED effort so it's like OED but on steroids so every coin inscription every graffiti every everything they compiled copies of it and then took them in context you know so and they quit somewhere around which they did linguistically significant versions of things after the sixth century but you you can't include you know some of the late latin writers because it would have doubled the size of the collection so they would take you know tacitus let's say and excerpt paragraphs at a time and they would make copies for each word that appeared in that paragraph and then they put them in boxes so literally there are 10 million slips of paper for every version of every word alphabetically arranged wow and then for the last 100 plus years they have been going word by word and compiling the dictionary in a chronological order of every semantic shade of meaning of every word ever written in latin up until the sixth century and they're slated to finish this project sometime in about 2050 so that they're still actively working at it that is you know stunningly pretty collection that's a but it's you know it's an early it's a it's really it's a super early database on index cards essentially is what it is and then i you know there's other versions of an egyptian language version and i found another one for a coptic language version from the 70s but i haven't written about the coptic one yet so although the coptic one has been digitized and you can find it online which i find fascinating only all these things talk to each other yeah well they're slowly becoming a little more digital i think the the the thesaurus latin i lingua has been they're digitizing it now and so versions of it are you can look it up and find it oh i like that new background on the morning arm because it's talking about a post he wrote about a subtle custom um that with 10 million slips in the bavarian rural families old palace oh interesting yeah now a new background just uh sitting in a different part of the office today but thank you uh all right yeah oh cool this is yeah this is cool what else is up in our space so i i just saw that a samuel left a message for us in july in one of the oh he was hit otherwise we also had like a nice talk early in july and then i have to skip a few so yeah but they have a we have a message he says uh so he's interested in like discussing goblins apparently he's started discussing something in the week interesting which i think is very cool because you know i am a fan of uh goblins as you know democratic euros of course yours are sort of democratic in principle by nature until until dns and the internet are intermediated no but the goblins sort of like a maybe also as an easy to edit link in a communal namespace so it's um so interesting that he is working on that and says also look into formalize how we link different global entity graphs and formalize how well sourced each statement is so i guess the first being very core to what we do already it's got to be often here just cross linking as well and the second maybe close to what a canonical leeway labs right and maybe opening well mine are working on some of that probably more technical uh i don't know about canonical yeah and apparently we do we still have both cars coming cool so that's the relay from from sound thank you i was going to say because it seems relevant to the fellowship the thing i was in janeva for was to facilitate a piece of a day long congress they held to reduce fragmentation in open source and they being the linux foundation was the host of the event so there were a bunch of people from different open source projects there you know they had a python project and an eclipse and a couple others and it was it was really quite interesting one of one of the threats is just what happens to open source which is like as more and more people contribute different projects many of which are just little fly by night things there's confusion about what which one's good which one's bad and when you finally sort of narrowed out and pick a pick a package there's dependencies and a bunch of things that make that make this this sort of chain of security flimsy so how to how to sort of sort that out but then a lawyer spoke and she presented some of the things that are coming downstream from the e you and other places that are dangers to open source and that was pretty like there was a lot of stuff happening on that front so that was really interesting as well and partly it was a community of communities trying to figure out how to talk together when things like this show up that was really i think the the purpose of the meaning so it was good and it was really lovely to be once again in the middle of a bunch of people who are leaning heavily into open source and very knowledgeable about it very cool so um which kind of um i guess a i'm always say um collecting links which kind of links or resources were produced or it can be shared you know about it or i don't know if you've written about it sorry for you pretty much let me find a link that there was certainly a link for the event wherever that went here we go i can share that and then i don't know what other stuff they shared out after thank you and then can i just say how happy i was to see the indictment yesterday and and a bunch of a flurry of articles sort of analyzing it and so forth and and just talking about how intelligent it is and how thorough it seems to be and a whole bunch of things done that might actually work so i was i was a non-class my accountability is nice i um my partner was super excited um and i i get it it makes sense but i'm i'm concerned that it's going to not go anywhere um in the sense of what might happen uh delays basically i guess so piece of one of the good analytic pieces i read was basically here are three things or however many things that that smith did to prevent delays including not naming the co-conspirators including two two things that the j6 commission recommended being charges that are not charges because they would be hard to prove um and it would kind of be state of mind hearsay whatever whatever or actual violence um and so those things are not in the document on purpose i think so so i'm and the judge who was randomly assigned to this is a judge who is already convicted and sentenced a whole bunch of j6 protesters and given them stronger sentences than had been recommended it's it's funny it's like the the previous indictment like we needed to burn an indictment just to get canon assigned so that so that we could have another indictment well it's a different it's a different circuit so canon wasn't in the offering for this one um i the the other uh the other interaction uh of the event uh my uh my partner had was that it was supposed to be twitter x uh boycott day oh so i was like oh well so so my my x has finally i think completely failed i'm not off it entirely but uh the combination of the rebrand and the new tweet deck and i think by now like maybe everybody i was connected to is in fact gone i don't know but it seems like all the value has has drained out of it now i'm i'm and and none of the other ones have picked up the value so i don't have a place to go for that urge at this point it's it's kind of frustrating uh like all of us yeah well yeah you you use the opportunity to reins count yourself into your feed reader feed reader i did start going to my feed reader more but it's still like there isn't really something that replaces that conversation place yeah um i'm on blue sky i'm on co co pilot co not co pilot co whatever i think the thing is like it's just everybody has fractured is the problem right so like there's certain people who are on co co host that's what's called there's certain people who are on blue sky there are certain people who are on notes there's certain people who are on threads um with threads being the most annoying because it isn't available on the web yet which is just the worst um i even went back into naster again and did like i feel like every three months i go into naster i'm like huh is anyone on this plot is anyone on here talking about anything other than naster and bitcoin and the answer is no no i left that's hilarious i think it's it's going to be exciting right because um of course with your fragmentation there's like a whether you reach critical mass in the all the sum of all fragmented spaces um and whether each space in each fragment also critical mass i guess my prediction will be that a lot of people will find that you know a community of 10 million like mastone currently and i think mastone is all the favorite which is larger maybe it's good enough for many people in the sense that you know you still find a critical mass of interest and other people will not um not find that maybe until we until everything every fragment joins the federation and and some people and some people may not find it in the in the failure mode even them and like remain in the centralized platforms but uh i think there's a thing that that existed that's gone and and we won't get it back i'm unfortunately i agree with that the same opinion yeah of well oh wait are you talking about a of all messenger peter every every messenger every social network is gone it was a unique flower he's talking about orchid i'm talking about dex actually the bite information exchange final which is the best thing there ever was the well the well and and you said before and after the end of september i mean so communities all mutate and fork and emerge you know and i that's very true and i i i uh i feel like i should be more sad about twitter r.i.p um but but i've also i've you know i've gone through that with a number of platforms um flicker was probably my most favorite but even upcoming back in the day you know that was something that was really special and not even the concept of it exists anymore delicious yeah and then there were two wikis i've poured a lot of energy and two back in the day both of which have gone social text and seed wiki and all my pages right and even wiki's are remain like c2 right you know lamented by many as having lost a lot of their content everything too i think c2 they had a lot i think c2 they locked down right a c2 is up um running the new new just script heavy version which some people didn't like and then like they had a lot of like deletion because of like community issues so to some extent and now i mean you know you can imagine like uh how nice it would be to have like a full version of c2 through time a full version of everything too uh you know as we will have with wikis of the future uh so there's also a whole slew of weather climate information that's come out recently saying this year is not just an anomaly but it's a break in the matrix um and i'm there's an ongoing question to have which is like what will convince people that trump is a felon what will convince people that weather is changing what will convince people that whatever um and i'm i'm curious about your thoughts on on all those things one of one of my answers to this is that so much about this is about identity and i'm really interested in how to lance that boil basically how to how to break through the identity struggle and i can go back into that but i'm i'm curious about the other topics first like yeah go ahead flancing so for me sorry i just wanted to like ask as a flow before we answer fully the question to me one of the interesting side question is how many people do you want to convince because i think for each of these questions i mean the rules we want to convince and the reason for which are different and maybe interesting right yeah exactly and it's funny because the the far right in the us is basically minority majority rule or whatever it's called it's like it's like when a minority manages to hack the rules enough that they can continue to run the table even though they don't constitute a majority of the population in a nominally functional democracy you would say sort of a simple majority or a little bit better than that would be enough to do stuff although i don't know that democracy as we frame it and as we think of it is that healthy or useful a framework anymore i don't know i think that we have overlapping communities of interest and our ability to get stuff done might be about might devolve into negotiations across those kinds of communities it's funny and on some list that i'm on somebody pointed to a snippet from the orville where they're talking to somebody from a different planet and she's describing how all decisions are basically made by by like social media consensus and of course that that's how things work i'll i'll repost the link here in case everybody hasn't seen it but i'm not a i'm not a watcher of the orville but it does have some some nuggets apparently it makes complete sense yeah to me and like the question is which we social networks do we want taking decisions using which methods yeah i i think like it's not even just that right like i think it's not just that it's social networks it's that there needs to be a wider approach right like so i have a friend who runs an organization called the green line in canada uh i sent a talking about things that don't exist anywhere else that's a link to our twitter which has a link to our org but i feel like our org is not as good um as the actual as the feat of stuff on the twitter page but like her central conceit is that if you want to convince people and repair the problems of myths and disinformation you have to engage people like in person at a community level and she runs like sessions at local community centers and uh old age homes uh to specifically talk to people about like news and things that and misinformation pieces um and she does like a lot of community engagement through that news organization which is also like an explicitly activist organization um and so i think like and she's had a lot of good success doing that but the difficulty of course is that it requires two things one it requires a lot in person engagement which is difficult um and has an expense to do and two um it requires that you take an activist stance right because if you're going to go into a place and say hey you're wrong here's what the right like information is people will perceive that as activist and you could argue one way or another but that's how they'll perceive it and so um that's the sort of uh configuration that most informational organizations news organizations will not pay uh it's actually sort of like one of the reasons why i did context center the way i did is because the it's a tool set to give you the tools to have an argument with someone in person to convince them of something because i i don't think you can convince anyone of anything on the internet anymore i think that has become impossible i think you can equip people with the tools to convince them of something offline and that's what we can do on social networks and on the internet but i don't think you can convince someone of climate change or trump being guilty or pretty much anything else on the internet for the most part at least not the majority of people isn't the opposite of what you're saying happening every day that people are being recruited into crazy ass theories by the internet like isn't isn't that actually in force much more than we wish it were but i don't think see i don't think that's the case i think like when you look at misinformation studies right the thing always is that it comes down to people connecting with other people and while you might make a connection over the internet chances are you're going to have that conversation with someone in either an offline space or a near offline space right it's something it's something that you hear at the bar or from your friend or from your buddy and that they got from an email from a person they know um or from like a discord chat which i think of as like a near in person space but the the point is right like it's all building on connections that they have made offline first or offline after i don't think these things spread purely on the web uh maybe you could like there's a good argument to make that they spread on the on like tv right but like i don't think we can go out on any social network and convince anyone who works on the so who is on a social network to disagree with you at any large scale right it's about you have to influence an individual who will go into their community whether that community exists online or not you know maybe it does partially but it's usually based in some sort of in-person context right and you look all the way back to like sort of the original most active online communities being like fandom communities right and these communities all had events that they met in person as well right and i don't necessarily think this is broadly true right there are people who are more internet negative or people who understand internet concepts more like you know this group does who can understand how to like read and parse things and what it means to be like an authentic news source or a true news source that can be convinced but the vast majority of people i don't think that's the case um i love what you're saying and agree with it heavily and i just posted a link into my brain miha sifri who's a friend at least of peter's and mine who's done a whole bunch of sort of progressive political stuff and online community stuff around politics and citizenship has written a bunch of posts in his sub-stack pub about this but the whole you know deep canvassing just says hey take take 45 minutes instead of five minutes to leaf let leaflet somebody and then move on slow down and listen and ask ask some questions and engage and it turns out that deep canvassing changes opinions more than just like whipping on by and that is and deep canvassing is just the lightest of little things that you know compared to what you were just talking about which is actual engagement and participation and so i'm i'm a huge fan of doing this and i one of my secret wishes is that when biden started his administration that he had created a new volunteer core of people who will respond to requests from towns in trouble in the u.s and go in with open mind and and like bag of tricks and see how they might help to try to fix the problems that people are doing without imposing solutions on them without coming in and saying you're wrong we know better but rather listening and helping people fix stuff and i think that would make a huge dent in the world not that all these problems are easily fixable i'm i'm in portland and there were two articles in the new york times in the last three days about what a what a crappy mess fentanyl and homelessness have made of portland really bad articles uh deep good articles but made our heart take boy if you'd only had that idea when britain started colonialism yeah yeah exactly this would be so much better you know what uh timing is everything i've been thinking lately too and reading in fits and spurts and i tentatively calling it the rhesus peanut butter um theory that we have too long taken like the idea of critical thinking and laminated on top of it some other identity related thing that has made history go askew usually on the order of hundreds to thousands of years so the first one is the idea of scholasticism in the late middle ages in through the renaissance where we took critical thinking and kind of the idea of the older ancient wisdom and the great conversation and laminated religious particularly christianity on top of it and the christianity made the critical thinking going in a specific direction um and then the last hundred and fifty or so years and you can see it really well i've just reread um the great conversation which is the opening book of mortimer adler and hutchins um britannica series of books and in it hutchins and the first thing very specifically pushes the idea that you can only have a democracy if you have critical thinkers and you can't have one without the other which i'm not sure is necessarily the case he tries to make the argument but i think looking back on it now it kind of fall short and he's doing it and writing it at a time in the 1950s amidst red scares and other issues where we're fighting against communism and the communist you know marx marx's book actually appears at the tail end of their series of 54 books um but we're now doing that same type of political identity either on top of our critical thinking or a lot of people i think as part of your identity peace jerry are actively vitiating against critical thinking and that's their identity and that becomes a much much harder thing to fight against is you know if you're indoctrinated and i was almost a month ago i saw there's a new documentary out i'll pull up the name in a minute on the dugger family and how they ended up where they are and a lot of it comes from the education they were given and they literally were indoctrinated at the baby level you know they have this thing called blanket training and if it's a baby you step outside of the blanket to get the toy you want to play with they literally beat you down to force you back onto the blanket and not go get that thing you want which is why all of the kids in that family seem like they're so pretty and perfect and happy because they literally from the time they were babies to now have been held in the dark and in such a structured society that they can't it's very hard to escape it and when all your family and friends and connections are there it's even it seems even more impossible for you to pick up and leave that environment and go somewhere else you just it's not something you do because that's your role um but those things like all playing together and slowly starting to piece something together that touches on your identity piece but i haven't i haven't gotten a hundred percent of it yeah i mean i think the irony is right like talking of people whose identities are just disagreeing like how easy it is to fall into that because you're talking about a book that pigeons co-authored and now i'd say that is the identity he has fallen into all right abstract contrarianism is virtue i see uh you are here let's talk about the go links since we got sj online please yeah um i'm also very hey i'm also very interested in the go links and i'm glad you put this here because i've been looking at these a bunch and the idea of like uh essentially of this i think is really useful i think the other i think the sort of missing it it's interesting to me because they i guess there's not really a standard here there's a bunch of these um there's a bunch of things that i've been reading up on for these but i don't i don't see uh i don't see anyone who's like proposed a standard way of doing them or a format beyond the idea that's like there's a go in the url i'm curious if there is one and what people are are like thinking about here i can feel in some of the context from like of course my people go links and also as they are in using um google where they originated in some way variation but i'm interested in samuels thoughts first well i wrote down some of my thoughts on that on the page on meta i think that um companies named the idea there's a good version of go links in some of the zanidu proposals and there's a decent implementation of them in some of the early wikis so really the there's some kind of convergent there's conversion evolution of the idea from people who are implementing it in a very large scale namespace with a bunch of transfusions and redirects and where names are the they are they're the meat and and both of those are interesting edge cases in the company everyone is using the same tools and talking to one another in a in a platform for collaboration everyone's already using the same platform so it's like it's like you're instrumenting a browser or you're instrumenting the web and i i think that's how we should approach it there should be a flavor of this we've we've some weird reason despite mozilla still being around and and very large and having a lot of this in their spirit we've stopped thinking of browsers or phone or we've stopped thinking of the persistent interfaces that people use to get other things you know the nested layers as a place to do substantive work so instead of people the a lot of the things that have been built on the web have made that increasingly opaque no one even thinks about dns anymore no one knows how to update their like the order in which you check various dns servers it's just supposed to work and then if at some point that broke people would freak out people are doing the same thing with domain resolution which early on was not imagined to be a business where squatting could get in the way it was just like someone has to do the thing to allow it the natural redirection to happen but now it doesn't for the primary way that domain registration is glossing everyone's mind is an annoying expense which if you forget about means you will lose everything so we should that that's what goal links as a as a concept i think should be and if we can capture the spirit of wanting there to be these links everywhere you know a domain name system is a type of this uh the implementation on multi-headed wiki farms is a type of this cross like cross wiki naming is a very explicit type where there's a shorthand if you want to force the matter to say exactly which resolver you want to resolve your goal and we don't i don't know of another universe that has this so maybe something constructive we can do is gather other very specific examples that have been coded up in some tool and say this is the thing we mean and then we need to share just like it's good that goal link has a name and maybe we should have made more of the name before someone founded a company with the name which is really annoying maybe collectively we can just buy that company and or file an appropriate generics lawsuit so they have to change the name but the same is true for the cascade a cascade the cascade sequence the order in which you want things to resolve so if we can if we can socialize a name for that that will also help a lot of people realize why it's important and start building into things i especially want that thing as a means of search so i can say i want to do the search for this thing but search these domains in this order because i know them i trust them or i have experience and context with them and i mean that would be a great way to just end squatting every browser had a little cascade and it was understood that one of the things you customize is your cascade if you are commonly using a registrar that's full of sweaters you would just start subscribing to the unsquat me list now it would have to be something that you trust to not be redirecting you to scam sites great sounds sounds like fun and then and then it wouldn't matter the thing that people right now have to pay for because it's encoded in i can't policy wouldn't matter i also think that this could potentially like be useful for right we're seeing a variety of alternative url schemes that are limited import because of because they exist outside of traditional dns right so we've got like torrent urls onion urls hyper urls and other uh gemini is the other one um hyper is the system that used to be called dat and it's like a torrent style decentralized hyper protocol what from hyper core protocol yeah from hyper core protocol um i think at this point it's a pretty dead project because i think all of the developers involved got hired by blue sky blue sky yeah um and blue sky does oh well i guess it's not a dead project there seems to be people still working on it i'm not sure how mainline these people are but um yeah i'd say yeah i mean it's but it's an interesting concept right that i think like it but it's limited by this problem um gemini is another one go ahead valencian sorry no no sorry i think when i think about just you want to forget something um well i guess um that being that one interesting aspect uh to me of goblins is maybe precisely how non-sophisticated they can be while still adding a lot of value so to some extent um so the experience i have with goblins i have two experiences with goblins actually it's pretty great but the largest one being the one at google of course at google not everybody's with goblins but there's a big fraction of the community that actually it sort of like becomes sometimes part of organizations where people use goblins so people in the sense of create goblins and then all the rest of the organization get the value by using the goblins and then they start creating goblins so they have this sort of like a vital within human groups um maybe aspect just because they are useful and once you agree on what a going is so i always just call them like cognitive artifacts like i guess many things can be from a such just because in principle i think a going that is when i tell you a word or a phrase we agree that we are we mean resolve the phrase in this system and go where wherever it tells you right that is the spirit of fit and it's suffice right and to some extent it's the same spirit of the wiki right when you're in a wiki community you can say um oh i'm working on page x or i'm working on x for for short later and that just is the minimum like coordination point right so so in this sense you know like just a database of any sort even the simplest database i think gets a lot of the of the benefits to a community for as long as they can agree on what the resolution route is so that's for me to for me why they are like this notion of dns for example or maybe using the ns for these seems like a pretty good like match and you could imagine for example like uh you know it's an either like a text entries to redirect to like all the providers or whatever you know or like just settlements all agree that if they don't find a goal link in the local database they look one level up for example or something so that seems quite to go quite well with the the the simple spirit of the thing now of course that is the protocol to to negotiate how we define how do we resolve goblins sounds great and to some extent has a lot of it's like a in short i i find it to be a fascinating maybe a you know a micro problem that's sort of like generalizes to how do i agree on the definition of truth which is the core to you know how do you convince groups you know like we were discussing just before Samuel John as well and defining a goal link being you know very the same shape as that so tldr yes and i think it's the protocol for this is an interesting idea but maybe part of the power is how little you need to boost up a goaling system and i don't know if a if you if any of you have experience using like something i go links in communities i'm not so like this group is the first time i ever heard about go links i think it's an interesting idea i also think like it's an opportunity especially if like part of the process of creating go links can include like archiving and go link maintainers can do regular resolution and decide to resolve an archive or not seems really useful right yeah your spot on i think it like it is to some extent a great minimum system that essentially it gives you label links and that means to some extent links people care about and from then on you can build a lot of experiences that will enrich and like sort of latch on to the fact that people are creating goal links for links they care about so presumably they also want to archive them yes etc sorry peter um direct answer to your question flancy and i back in the olden days i used to use inner wiki links and so i the the ones that i used i was using use mod at the time and i the thing i remember is that you'd end up having you'd kind of share you'd download somebody's map of you know abbreviations to urls so if you weren't using the right map you were kind of screwed but so they end up kind of being a map sharing thing sister sites has actually got some similarity to to go links now i think about interway into wiki links where you have the same page name as on another wiki and you know that there's automatic connections that get made completely separately if i think about go links i wonder if it would be interesting kind of compare and contrast the go link resolution with the kind of the syndication federation and protocols that get used in nostre or or master on really i i mean there is like a class of just sharing a link is like an activity i think that is special and you can totally build go links on top of these the same as you can build like an agora page from like nodes or like both you know the longer form ones or whatever as long as they have a title yes so yeah to some extent these are all the same shape yeah and honestly for a federation protocol i will personally i personally in my mind default activity power nowadays even though i have written zero activity power but you know it just seems like the right default i do think like though the activity pub aside sort of the the piece that makes sense from nostre is this idea of like relays which activity pubs sort of has but not really whereas nostre is more like organized around them but because it solves for the problem that is that is with activity pub which is like you need to pay all of these individual servers and get all of their information separately as opposed to like there could be people who act as utilities i mean this gets back of course to the question do you want name resolvers in your system because that's basically what it would be doing uh not the relays but the activity pub like in theory and a resolvers system and the relays to i i guess the relays to are essentially name resolvers but not really it's sort of a different concept i think that might be a useful concept and i i agree with you like the person who was mentioning nostre earlier sorry i'm switching back and forth so i'm not always catching this talking um but like the idea of relays on nostre is really interesting as part of the protocol kind of ssb too right yeah i mean very used ss yeah secure scuttlebutt is like a really interesting thing but i think it is kneecapped by being too tied to blockchain whereas nostre i think is somewhat is more separate from blockchain in a way that frees up its utility and flexibility it's a an ironic thing to say about nostre but i agree with you so um i get this a good moment to mention maybe this but it's very uh not really but he he wrote um probably most very uh next week so i wrote up this agora for the finish of the link this link agora i and it's right it's it's actually running like uh it has a few bugs so you know still like uh it's partly mentioned only but it has two core things already one is like go links and these are uh of course in the agora as as if you remember um if you write a if you tag a link with go in any page in a massive wiki for example uh in one of the massive wikis that are already here and then you go uh the name of the page where that goal link is written it will just redirect to the link and so essentially just leaving it this here as an internet so uh because you know if you want to experiment i i would add the title if you want to experiment with go links as a community and i really feel like the kind of idea i'm a convert i don't know if it is it comes across clearly with the go links but like i feel like is the kind of thing that is one thing to discuss in the abstract it's another thing to be part of the community of any size that agrees to use go links together for as an experiment and sees the reaction in in friction when it comes to to sharing or you know to do and and how this intent as you as as you pointed out stands in for potentially a lot of other sharing