 Six o'clock having been reached, I call this meeting of the Amherst Zoning Board of Appeals to Order. My name is Steve Judge as EVA Chair. I want to welcome everyone to this meeting. Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. Additionally, the meeting is recorded and may be viewed via the town of Amherst's YouTube channel and ZBA webpage. In accordance with provisions of Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 48, Article 10, Special Permit Granting Authority of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw, this public meeting has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and mailed to parties at interest. We will begin with a roll call of ZBA members and panel for tonight's meeting. Steve Judge, me, I'm present. Ms. Parks. Here. Mr. Maxfield. Here. Mr. Meadows. Here. Mr. Gilbert. Here. Also attending the public hearing tonight is Maureen Pollock, Planner and Dave Wasiewicz, Senior Building Inspector. Rob Mora, Building Commissioner will be joining us in a little while. The Zoning Board of Appeals is a quasi-judicial body that operates under the authority of Chapter 48 of the General Laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting the health, safety, convenience and general welfare of the inhabitants of the town of Amherst. One of the most important elements of the Amherst Zoning Bylaw is Section 10.38. Specific findings from this section must be made for all of our decisions. All hearings and meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the Board during the hearing, after which the Board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. After the Board has completed its questions, the Board will seek public input. The public speaks with the permission of the chair. If a member of the public wishes to speak, they should so indicate by using the raised hand function on their screen. The chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak. When you are recognized, provide your name and address to the Board for the record. All questions and comments must be addressed to the Board. The Board will normally hold public hearings where information about the project and input from the public is gathered. Followed by public meetings for each. The public meeting portion is when the Board deliberates and is generally not an opportunity for public comment. If the Board feels it has enough information and time, it will decide upon the applications tonight. Each petition heard by the Board is distinct and evaluated on its own merits and the Board is not ruled by precedent. Statutorily for a special permit, the Board has 90 days from the close of hearing to file the decisions. For a variance, the Board has 100 days from the date of filing to file its decision. No decision is final until the written decision is signed by the sitting members of the Board and is filed with the town clerk's office. Once the decision is filed with the town clerk, there is a 20-day appeal period for an aggrieved party to contest the decision with a relevant judicial body in Superior Court. After the appeal period, the permit must be recorded at the Registry of Deeds to take effect. Tonight's agenda, public meeting and a public hearing on ZBA FY2022-11, fairing Sunset LLC, Thomas Reedy Esquire, representing the applicants, requesting a special permit to allow the construction of two apartment buildings and four duplex buildings with a total of 17 residential units, including two affordable units on an approximate 2.04 acre property under Section 3.01, 3.3211, 3.323, 5.10, 6.29, and 10.38 of the zoning law bylaw, located at 164 and 174 Sunset Avenue, Map 11C, Parcels 9 and 299, General Residence RG, and Neighborhood Residence RN Zoning District. The next order of business will be general public comments on matters not before the Board tonight. We will then have an administrative meeting where we will select the election of officers and then other business not anticipated within 48 hours and adjournment. The first order of business is ZBA FY2021, fairing Sunset LLC. Are there any disclosures? We have a long list of new submissions since our last meeting and I'm going to try to identify what they are for the record. New submissions include a cover letter dated May 19th, a new sheet 3 dated May 13th, sheet 4 dated May 13th, sheet 5 dated May 13th, sheet 6 dated May 13th, new L-series drawings sheet L-100, L-300, L-400, L-500, new sheets for building type A, sheet G-1A0, G-1A, A-0-1A, A-1-1A, A-1-2A, A-2-1A, building type B, apartment buildings, seat G sheet G-1-0B, A-1-1B, A-0-2B, A-1-1B, A-1-2B, A-2-1B and a series of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 for building type C, all sheets G and A through C. We also have a new residential redevelopment management summary, a parking management plan, a new interior unit finish samples, a cross-section model, model views submitted May 26th, 2022, fire truck exit circulation plan and a fire truck entry circulation plan. I think those, Maureen, I think that's all the new submissions from the applicant. Staff submissions include the town of Amherst, that was already included in last meetings. There are a new town of Amherst local historic district commission certificate of appropriateness dated May 24th and a new project application report updated of May 26th, 2022. There have been three public comment submissions, one since our last meeting from Connie Gillan at all. I think there's about 57 signatures people signed on to that letter that was dated May 20th, 2022. Are there anything, is there anything else that I missed in terms of submissions? Great. I want to announce what my intention for tonight would be. I don't think it's going to be possible for us to be to fully consider this application tonight, especially with all the recently received site plans, significant changes, progress on the application. I'm not sure about everybody else, but it's been more than we could handle in the last couple of days. That is not through any fault of anybody on this the applicant or the staff. There's just a lot of movement and a lot of amendments to this project and just isn't time to fully review them prior to this meeting. That's the purpose of this meeting is to do that. At the appropriate time, I'm going to ask that this matter be continued until June 23rd. Tonight, I'd like to accomplish a couple of things. I want to make sure to give the applicant a chance to run through the changes that they've suggested, the things that they have responded to the questions that we had. You all have received a series of, I think it's six or seven questions that we submitted to the applicant, and then we have outlined what we'd like to have the applicant respond to those questions. Those include submit for the record, take testimony from the applicant on an overview, a detailed representation. You've got this already in your packets, folks. The last thing I would like to say is last meeting, I asked board members to wait until the end of the whole presentation to ask their questions. I found that that was probably inhibited the ability of people to ask questions just because it went on for, it was a large presentation, a long presentation, and it's just really difficult to remember what you were asking about before an hour ago. So what I'm going to do is, working with Mr. Reedy, I'll take a break at the appropriate time. You can ask questions about the subject that he's covered, and we'll begin again the presentation from the application. Otherwise, we're going to be waiting until the end again, and I think it's just very difficult to have a meaningful discussion at that point. So I think this process has the potential of being really long if we have a lot of questions. A lot of questions are good, but we can make this as short as possible if both the questions and the answers are direct and succinct. So let's try to strive to do that so we can be done with this hearing tonight by 8.30 or quarter to 9. So we can engage in the other business that we have scheduled tonight. So are there any questions from members of the board about how we're going to proceed? Okay. Mr. Reedy, you're presenting for the applicant? Can you hear me okay? I think you're muted. No, you're not. Can you hear me okay now? Now we can. Okay, great. I want to hear you loud and clear. Great. So for the record, Tom Reedy, attorney with Bacon, Wilson, and Amherst here on behalf of the applicant Fearing Sunset in their application for special permits for residential redevelopment for 164 and 174 Sunset Ave in Amherst with me this evening, Barry Roberts, who is the manager of Fearing Sunset, and I expect you to hear from him a little later tonight, Jonathan Salvon, the architect, Andy Bone, landscape architect, and Maureen. I think Phil Henry should be in the audience. He's our civil engineer. We could just let him in. So yeah, Mr. Chair, you read off quite a few submissions, and I give a lot of credit to the development team because as we go through the changes, you'll see that I think they're all improvements. They're all relatively simple, but when you update one sheet, you end up updating all these other sheets associated with it. So that's why we don't just give you the site plan and the landscape plan. We give you every plan that these changes touch on. So that's why it might seem voluminous, but ultimately I think is when you see the changes or hear the changes, you'll realize that they are pretty simple. Not that I'm expecting to get an approval tonight, but just for context, so it's not too overwhelming for everyone. So we were last year and of April, you mentioned that we received the Historical Commission demolition delay waiver so we can actually relocate these houses and move or move the houses and demolish parts of the houses. And then what also we've been doing is really trying to take the heart with the board said what the neighbor said. And so we've, I'd say, redesigned the project and I'll share my screen so you can see. So hopefully, can you see a rendering of an aerial rendering? Okay, good. And so what we did was the original proposal was for 17 units and 59 beds. So that was four two bedrooms, one three bedroom and 12 for four bedrooms. And so Barry had met with the neighbors and we also heard some of the neighbors comments about the number of four bedroom units. And so what we did is we tried to take a look at reducing the number of four bedroom units and making a little bit more of a variety of units within the same footprint because we have that local historic district commission certificate of appropriateness. And so we thought it was important not to change really the footprint of what we're presenting. As the footprint, we're about the same. The only change you'll see to the footprint of the buildings is this one right here. You may recall that in the previous iteration, it was actually, I'll call these segments. This is a segment. This is a segment. It was three segments long. And we've reduced that to two segments. And what that's allowed us to do is being sensitive to another comment was we're we were able to put in a walkway with steps and a little away. I think landscape architects would call it to get back to this area. So if you're in one of these units, you don't have to travel all the way down here to get back to the amenity area. So in addition to that footprint change in this sidewalk change, the new proposal instead of 59 beds is for 53 beds. So it's a lesser amount of beds and 22 units. So while the units increase, the beds decrease because the proposal is for four studios. And those studios, as you'll see when when Jonathan presents are located in effectively revised duplex building. So the footprint of this building and this building right here will each have studios at the bottom. And then we'll have one bedrooms on one side and two bedrooms stacked on the other side. And those are kind of duplicates of each other. So we end up with four studios, four one bedrooms, five two bedrooms, one three bedroom and eight four bedrooms. And so the four bedrooms would be located in this duplex, this duplex, this duplex, and then two of the units in this apartment up here. And so we think that we hope that the board in the neighborhood understands that we're trying to listen to what they're saying to reduce those numbers, the number of four bedrooms. What that also does is because we have 22 units, we now have three affordable units. And frankly, I don't know if it would be a one, a two and a three, two studios and a one, two ones in a studio. We're frankly going through this process of marketing or soon to be going through the process of marketing at one university drive south. And then Barry has 70 university drive and both of them there's a high demand for studios and ones. So, you know, I don't know probably by the next I would assume you're not closing the public hearing probably by the next hearing will have a better sense of what the affordables would be. But just note that previous iteration was two affordable units. This is three affordable units so we increase the affordable units. In addition to that sidewalk change that I talked about back here by adding that now that walkway. What we've also done is in this area here, we've pulled this sidewalk back because what we're doing is saving that public shade tree. And so the if you'll recall the sidewalk went straight across because we had asked to take it down but through discussions with the neighbors and ultimately talking with Barry and understanding you know the importance of this tree as it sort of sets a boundary for this neighborhood. We've redesigned this sidewalk to have it swooped down so that it doesn't impact that tree or minimizes any impact to the tree. And then I'd say two other changes, maybe three other changes. One is the inclusion and Barry will talk about this the inclusion of an onsite management office. And that's going to be located right here and that that manager is dedicated to this site. And so we think that whether it's tenants, tenant lease up tenant complaints, tenant issues, maintenance issues, neighbor issues, etc. That onsite manager will help there still be still will be professional management Barry still going to manage it. And then also we're going to have a resident manager and again Barry will explain that but but what will happen is he has this at 70 University Drive he reduces the rent for a responsible person and they're the first point of contact typically whether they get the first call and call Barry or Barry will get the first call and then call them. You always have somebody you know there at the site. So that's one of the other changes. We've also now have accessible units we have a fully accessible unit and again we're not sure because I think that's going to play on what the affordable units are but we will have one fully accessible unit. And then we're also Jonathan will talk about we'll have some group one accessible units and you'll see there's now a walkway back here leading to these studios which I believe would be group one accessible you'll also see sidewalk here which would be accessible. And then lastly I think what's not shown on this diagram because these renderings just take a long time to create because they're topographically sensitive and I'll go through them so you can see them because I know that that was part of the request. The latest iteration of the plan so Barry met with many of the neighbors many who wrote the letter and if you see from the letter one of the requests from the neighbors was to close this access so not to have Sunset Avenue access. So in the plan set that you have and I can probably flip to it you'll see that there is no longer any access to Sunset Ave from the development everything will come in and out of this Fearing Street entrance and we should have you'll see that there's landscaping so the the pavement will end about here and we've got a we've done a truck turn analysis to ensure that the fire department's largest truck I think it's a 48 foot ladder truck would be able to navigate the site would be able to enter and exit and so we've got landscaping shown here and so while on the rendering you see that it extends all the way out the proposal is not to extend all the way out what that also does is changes the construction entrance so that everything is coming out of Fearing so even for construction those construction vehicles are going to be entering and exiting here we're trying to minimize you know the request of the neighbors minimize the potential traffic but and otherwise to the balance of the neighborhood so you know I think it's I think it's I think we made some really good changes you know the reduction of the four bedroom units the reduction of bedrooms we've also reduced parking by one we had 43 spots we're down to 42 spots and that's because even though there's a car shown here this is hatched out because you'll see that that is providing kind of the access to the sidewalk and the steps to access this amenity space so we think there's better site fluidity if you will and so we've identified the visitor spaces we've identified the compact spaces we've identified the office space for that onsite manager you'll see the serpentine around the tree to save that tree and then you know one of the things I will probably show you so I'll try to back out this this will do a decent job of showing you what what the site this like a section of the site will look like but I think if I flip through you know a lot of credit to Andy bones team for for pulling this together so what they do is they lay it on top of the topography and so you'll see the different you know back here if you'll recall there were those three segments now there's only the two and that's where we were able to add and so here you'll start to see some of the topography so this is at the intersection of fearing and sunset you'll see how the sidewalk now serpentines around that tree we've removed this transformer and we're putting it between these two units and a second one between those back two units so one of the comments last time was take a look at the transformer and so we've moved that out of the way you can see how everything slopes down this is a view from the entrance you can see how it how we enter and then it drops down you can see the arbor varieties and then this is from across the street at a new mass property at their sidewalk looking south into the project these are the units near sunset these are the units right in front of you and you can see the gradation as it drops off you can see behind it the retaining wall if you're following my mouse how it levels out here so that's the retaining wall and you've got those arbor varieties that are blocking it and then this is from the northwest corner of the site looking back so you can see the exposed retaining wall and then the grade change here and then this is an aerial view that dumpster enclosure trash enclosure this is that accessible path back to the amenity space and then this is that other path back to those studio units that are down at this lower level and so those would be I think those group one accessible we also have the stair and we have the the bicycle rack and then this is from ground level at that amenity space looking I mean fearing street on the left you've got the retaining wall here to give you a sense of perspective and then this will be the height of you know from the back the buildings look three stories high but from the front they look two stories high this is from the southerly end of the amenity space you know you've got those UMass towers in the background you see the new sidewalk coming down and connecting back to the amenity space and then just an aerial raised view from about the same area and then you can see probably the you know the heights the peaks of these buildings in relation to the peaks of these buildings so these are obviously a bit higher because just the topography is higher near sunset another aerial of the community garden and in the amenity space of you into the amenity space and I can go back to any of these if anybody has a particular interest here you see on sunset and so you see the hedgerow and you see the gates that we had talked about last time you see the finishes of the building the steps right going into the building and then again this is one just really given the timing and frankly the expense of putting these things together we weren't able to show that this hedge will continue but do know that's that is the proposal that this access will not exist the curb line will go straight across the sidewalk will go straight across we'll have grass here we can probably even fit another street tree here we'll probably end up putting another street tree there and then a couple of other you know rows of hedges and then it would be grasped until you know the balance of this petuminous concrete you know the paving would continue to exist and that would function as the truck turn around again from the amenity space now looking south you can get a sense of the topographical change from the parking lot down into this note that that additional tier that third tier if you will and then again standing by that new sidewalk that we've just added as a result of changing the the building footprint thanks again to you know to Jonathan's work of figuring out how to make that a functional six unit apartment really is what those are going to be and then again from the entrance you get a sense of the topography you know it's probably not as dramatic as many folks would have thought because the site needs to remain relatively level on the interior of the site but you can see you know how the retaining wall will end up coming out of the ground here and then we'll be we'll extend and then just a couple of interior renderings from one of those studios in the new apartments and then on the second floor looking out into that community garden space and these are some of those front units this is the one on the northeast corner you'll see there's no longer a transformer you'll see how the sidewalk meanders down and then comes back out for the protection of that shade tree you'll see the defensible spaces in front of these units you've got the step the little stoop and the bump out and these architectural features are all proposed as part of the project and you've got the parking lot view this is building three so sunset is up here in front of this building you've got that on site office space the office manager or the site manager right here you've got a doorway and I believe this one leads to the upstairs units so we were able to you know through the discussions last time we had talked about okay folks park back here they're going to have to walk all the way around to the front and thinking that wasn't ideal Jonathan was able to work in an internal staircase that he'll talk about when he goes over this building so that folks who park back here can access and actually get to their units because there's a two bedroom flat on the back you know on this in this area here and again the lighting that you see the height of the lighting the downcast lighting the landscaping the the pedestrian lighting you know all of this I mean it's it's painstaking to get through it but it's it's all what is proposed on the plan so I think these are really useful again this won't exist the sidewalk will continue this will be grass and this will be the curb line and likely we can put in another shade tree if if Andy tells me it's okay and then this is inside from the parking lot with all the grades you can see where the fire truck turn around and what we'll end up doing is we'll sign this and stripe this so that it's you know no parking fire lane at the request of the fire department and then another one this is from across the street this is um this is the creamery building across the street again this won't be here but I think you get the sense of what the streets streetscape will be if I'm boring anybody please let me know we've got 30 of these we're almost done this is looking back at the amenity space again community gardens and then this is more ground level looking at that second this is a sixplex this is a sixplex and then this is a duplex and then finally from the from the amenity space looking out and I think what I want to do is just talk a little about interior finishes these are the types of finishes looking at granite countertops white cabinets lvl flooring so it's it's higher end finishes stainless steel appliances except for the washer and dryer those won't be stainless steel we just they kind of take a beating sometimes um and hopefully the balance of the appliances won't so this is while this isn't the floor plan with you know um the finishes super imposed these are the types of finishes that that will be providing um we can talk about the the rent since maybe some of the other answers well let's do you know mr reedy let's I think that was a really good overview and so let's open it up for questions from the board about um if there are any about the overview and the the nature of the changes that you've made since the last meeting and the bedroom mix and everything else I think that's this appropriate time to do that and then we can talk a little bit about the management next we could talk about the management plan and the management of the property of resident manager as well as the professional management then we can go on and talk about tenant selection and other things but this is a good good point for us to talk about um the overall changes made since last time sure I guess I would just start out so you you made a decision that um you thought it was um would attract a certain type of um tenant to increase the number of studios in one and two bedrooms and decrease the um number of four bedroom units um is that was that your goals to try to to um attract single professionals or what was your I don't want to put words in your mouth so I want to let you tell me what your your notion was behind that yeah I think it was you know twofold um one of them is listening to the neighbors comments I think you know Ms. Tobbe had a had a comment about the number of four bedrooms and we heard it from some others and so we said okay is there a way to reduce this because what what we're trying to do is is so housing is a need it's finding the right mixture of housing to get the right tenants in there in the dimensional restrictions that we're under and so it's a kind of a numbers game to find and to make the project you know viable because construction costs now are incredible so it was the neighbor comment plus I mean uh one university drive south is all studios and ones uh 70 university drive has studios one bedrooms two bedrooms and three bedrooms and so it was talking to Barry I think and talking to the neighbors he thought it was good to kind of diversify a bit more and to a certain extent you get some self-regulation when you have studios one and ones and we increased the number of twos and we added studios and ones and so yeah we thought it would help diversify and then we thought it was nicely balanced with the number of four bedrooms um because you know to a certain extent we don't necessarily think all four bedrooms are going to be filled if it's a family there could be a family of three of of four you know two parents two children they may take up three bedrooms and then having an additional space office or otherwise and and better I'll tell you there will likely be undergraduates here and and I think you saw from our our management discussion we're not excluding anybody we're trying to select you know lawfully the the right people and that comes down to management but we thought that given the market conditions given what we heard from the neighbors and in the attempt to try to make it all work I think that's why we went to more studio we got some studios and ones in there are there questions from other board members about the the changes the overall approach um changes made since last meeting were any changes any questions just about what's what you see that's been presented so far mr meadows uh I curious how you're anticipating keeping um let's say visitors and students from southwest out of the parking areas I've noted every time I've gone down fearing street during uh during the semester it is completely parked up and people are looking for spaces have you got a thought on on how you're going to keep those spaces that you're designating for tenants and visitors in in barry I'll ask you to jump in correct me if I'm wrong I think it's just diligent management um you know so we have a parking management system we'll have a sticker system for the residents so they'll be able to to affix that and I think it's probably registration of of visitors you know to a certain extent visitors who are just stopping by for a short period of time is one thing if we see the same visitor over and over and over um you know I I think then and it'll probably I believe it's in the lease and it'll be posted that that those vehicles will be towed and Barry can probably tell you all it takes is you know telling a few times for people to get the message that this is a private parking area um you know we've thought about putting a gate across there and have it access controlled um that we can consider that and I'll I'll have Barry think or talk about that I don't know if that's a you know poses an issue for fire department access or emergency vehicle access or let's say uber or lift access or delivery vehicle access to try to get in there which I suppose that it would so I think it's just diligent management and Barry I don't know if you've got any other comments on on how to deal with that I think what works for us at say Barry just I don't want to interrupt you just give us your name and address for the record Barry Roberts 200 Bay Road Amherst thank you what works at uh 70 University Drive is we everybody that has a vehicle is registered uh we ask them to talk to the office if they're going to have a visitor like some um some of the parents are from overseas and they might come to visit their children at times we've had that and they actually stay with their children for a day or two and they have a have a car or a rental vehicle so with the person being on site excuse me at this project they'll be able to keep an eye out on the parking and um Tom's right you're told once or twice and the word spreads like wildfire so um I think we're able to control that very easily I know one of the things I want to talk about and I want you to kind of talk a little bit more about in the next um segment is the management and the different roles of the the three management functions property management functions you have um but I think that's the place where you can go into more detail about the on-site management um does that answer your question Mr. Meadows I think so Ms. Parks I'll see you had your hand up um were there any pictures that showed the entry uh from Fearing Street you're looking at it okay so where's the parking like a long um oh this okay I got it okay so sunset is Fearing is right down here your back is um there's there's a bunch of condos kind of kitty corner across the street your backs to them and you're looking into this into the site okay so and right now so there's there's parking spaces that go up to like where this guy's standing no the parking space we're not touching the parking spaces okay they're here so you you'll see right here that's where those parking spaces end okay and those are the existing parking spaces and we're not we're not touching we're not removing them we're not touching them okay and how many people can live in a studio apartment I mean under law I think it's up to four because it's a unit um but you know practically I would imagine one maybe two okay that's that's what I had great are there other questions I just want to write down a question for later um okay so next look Mr. Reedy can you talk a little bit about the three roles I think this is new the three roles of management you've got a professional management firm you've got on-site management staff independent of the resident manager who's also on-site so what's the coverage what are the different roles how do you how does this how do you view this and has this been done in other projects before yeah and maybe the best way is I'll put Barry on the spot again uh but this is effectively how he manages um and so Barry maybe just talk about you know you as the professional manager and then the on-site management and then what you've done to get resident managers and just how it all works sure um I'll try to and if you have any questions let me know so the way I see it and the way we handle that 70 university job we have designated a resident that we adjust their rent and they are eyes and ears on the project for us when we're not there or if there's somebody that's locked out of the building and lost their keys or something like that and they contact me I would call them and they would go take care of that uh if there's an issue that they see on-site like a party starting to amp up or something like that they would call me and I wouldn't put them in the danger of addressing that I would go there or one of the other owners would go there so it's worked very well for us since the day we open uh we we have done it that way there is also the same situation that exists here where during working hours five days a week there is a staff person on site and they are processing while they are there they're processing applications uh and also they're there if a tenant has an issue with a washing machine a toilet anything like that they're able to handle that and they know who our subcontractors are and they can call directly to handle that right away also they would be there to address the parking and keep an eye on that so um I kind of think that I function as you know like I told the neighbors when I met with them my phone number is available all the time uh and if I need to go there I will go there I also am notified anytime there is a alarm say a smoke detector goes off they're all monitored I'm notified and I can usually go there if it doesn't address itself fairly quickly I go there and find out what's going on whether it's somebody smoking illegally in the building or they burned a bacon or something like that but it's worked very well at 70 University Drive I think Tom alluded to the fact that that project is about 50% undergraduates and we have not had an issue there I think you could check the police logs uh if you wanted to but we have not had an issue at 70 uh it's a wonderful mix of professionals um we we also have affordable units there um and it just seems to self-regulate very well with with us paying attention to what's going on on the site so if you have any questions I try to answer them so and we've got you would you're proposing to have somebody 40 hours a week nine to five on the property as an employee of the ownership company and then the resident manager uh when they're there on the at nights or on the weekends or would also be a contact person and is the role for essentially the role of the resident manager to replace aside from the administrative functions of tenant selection everything else but in terms of tenant interface just to replace the role of the the onsite manager when the onsite manager is actually at nights and weekends um actually we have a we work with a software system that allows uh at any time for people to put in a complaint like the toilet's not functioning or things like that so I would see the the uh let's call it after hours manager or onsite person as I want somebody to be there to see if a party starting to fire up or something like that or there's uh other problems on the site I don't expect them to feel uh complaints about the toilet not working or things like that I mean if there's water running all over the floor of course I would ask them to go see what's going on and let me know so I can get there and take care of or contact the appropriate subcontract but I you know I'm not expecting to be a maintenance man I'm expecting him to you know let people in with locked doors um he will get to know he or she will get to know everybody on the site and we'll let people in appropriately if necessary thank you you know I think one if I may I think it might be really helpful Mr. Reedy to have a narrative that describes these um these roles a little bit more I mean I I understand your what you've created in the um submissions briefly describes the different roles but I think what Mr. Roberts has gone through makes it much more clear to us how they intend to do that and building upon the experience and that 70 University Drive and what how he's what he's just talked about it'd be very helpful to have that um delineated in the management report the management plan and I think that's something you could do without um I would like to see that in the management plan it'd be great oh I see that Rob Mora has joined us I just want to note but for the record of the building commissioners joined us as well any other questions for from members of the board um so far Mr. Mora uh thank you Mr. Judge I just wanted to mention to the board um related to this discussion that the the zoning bylaw does have a definition of resident manager uh so a resident manager is required in certain situations not overacted by duplexes being one of them uh and it does come with a definition that uh you know just uh read part of it here uh a person qualified and responsible for the implementation of the property management plan and for managing and coordinating maintenance housekeeping and administrative duties so I just wanted the board to be aware of that and and I understand uh Mr. Roberts um you know has a a thorough management plan that involves multiple components but I just wanted you to be aware of the typical resident manager uh requirement uh does carry a definition that sounds like maybe it's not the individual that Mr. Roberts just described but perhaps is covered by the the variety of services that is offered uh being proposed for this site uh thank you thank you Mr. Mora Mr. Rady one of the other questions we asked was a overview of the tenant selection process procedures and ongoing monitoring to ensure a mix of tenants as desired by the applicant and outlined in the management summary can we um can you give us an idea or go through tenant selection process how you try to match the tenants with the neighborhood and everything else that would be very helpful yeah sure and so you know one of the things um to start out with is there there are affordable units and there's a whole separate process for the affordable units there's qualification um by income level and then there's a lottery process and then there's the typical vetting of um you know reference checks credit reports etc but but the affordable units are regulated somewhat differently because it's it's actually under a regulatory agreement with the Department of Housing and Community Development that the municipality of town of Amherst also signs so those are are regulated just a little bit differently and you're not uh as free just to you know find somebody on the street and say hey do you want to live here it's it's a pretty highly regulated tenant selection process so for for market rate and this is the lawyer in me I'm always you know what I always tell clients is be consistent because you you want to be very careful about not discriminating um and so tenant selection as long as you go through the process similarly for for everyone and you're not discriminating based upon real or perceived class then you're going to be okay and so you know and as I put in the narrative um you know tenant selection almost starts with design I it comes down to how you lay something out the quality of finishes that you have because if you kind of design a dump or maintain a dump with all the respective dump owners you're probably going to get tenants who are not going to respect the property and so it's you know part of the process we went through here was to design something that would get folks in here who have the sense of community and respect the property because I think that's probably those intangibles if you will um and so once you get site layout finishes amenity spaces etc then you go to marketing because now you form the place and then you try to figure out okay how do we get the people in here and you don't necessarily post it on the tack boards at UMass I can tell you for one university drive south many folks who have come to 70 university drive I think you know there was the assistant lacrosse coach recently we said you know not me but it was said hey check out one university drive south because it's similar finishes similar managements are tenant type similar respect of the property and so it's how do you advertise and so you know the sit barry sister properties is one of the uh uh departments dot com is another one talk at Tony get get for it mr mr reading we're losing you we're you're um we're getting some break up on your your your um um voice here why don't you go back about um five sentences and maybe we can get you again so you were just you were talking about something beyond uh um amenity selection and quality of of the features okay so as design the place and and fit it out then it's marketing and the marketing is you don't go and stick it up the tack word at UMass you one of my examples was you know I think it's the assistant lacrosse coach at UMass had about the 70 wasn't any occupancy there and so we sent her over to one university drive south at some and those are apartment those uh apartments are wow it's no is anybody else having trouble hearing mr readie yes i'm getting i'm getting lots of i'm getting all yes i'm getting all head shaking yes perhaps uh for the time being maybe you should offer a video or maybe you're using a lot of um I don't I don't know if this is factual but you probably have a lot of um documents that have a lot of um graphics maybe if you could click out of some of them I don't know if that'd be helpful I think that's exactly what's happening got a lot of these them and if all else fails that'd be the um worst-case scenario is the review your computer or I could just call in too how's this is this so far so good okay so far so good oh no I hear it again you know mr readie um I think it's important that we be able to hear your whole sentence and not just every other word um can you why don't you try calling back in and we'll just wait for us we'll just wait for a second um everybody can go grab a glass of water and call and call back in okay mr roberts um while we're waiting for mr readie perhaps uh you've you actually manage lots of units in town lots of rental units perhaps you can talk with us a little bit about your philosophy how you implement tenant selection as well I mean it seems to me that the first cut is price that's determined a lot by amenities by features by the quality of the building material all everything else determines price that's the sort of the first cut yes I would I would suggest holding off until attorney readie comes back just out of respect of making sure that their whole team is is is here well it's a wait a while but I don't see oh he's on attendees Maureen just it just got on there we go hey maureen do you want to make me a panelist how's this perfect okay the old shut off reboot you're coming in loud and clear you can continue good mr readie thank you okay sure um so uh I was saying that the the first step to tenant selection is really project design of finish selection amenity area selection etc and then subsequent to that it's marketing and it's it's not necessarily sticking up on a tack board at UMass you know rooms available units available it's going through different channels apartments.com word of mouth it's working with the university whether it be Tony Maroulas or the athletic department it's working with Amherst college to try to get some of their professors graduate students etc to be occupants and so that's one of the probably the best ways is the marketing of successful tenant selection because you have to be careful with tenant selection not to discriminate based upon who is applying and so if you're able to elicit the right responses then the tenant selection process um you know it does take experience that I'm sure Barry can talk about but then the tenant selection process helps to work itself out and then it's um background checks reference checks ensuring financial adequacy uh and then really Barry using previous management experience you probably get a good read of whether or not folks are going to fit well into the community that is looking to be created and then after tenant selection I'm getting a little bit into management it's it's the lease and we've got a pretty robust lease with some pretty um pretty clear expectations I think it's page five of the lease for disturbance and in noise that lays out all of the different ways some generally some specifically how a tenant could be evicted and if nothing more it really puts the tenant on notice of the behaviors that are expected and then there's needs to be follow through and that kind of all comes in with communication and you know if you look at by way of example you know owner occupied versus non-owner occupied um owner occupied tend to be better managed because there's there's a sense of community and ownership and um you know folks who care about the property are there and they're talking with you know for example the other side of that um duplex owner and I think what Barry has found successful and I'll and I'll stop talking a minute and let him talk about it but it's staying in touch with his tenants and whether it's responding to an issue like a toilet or a lockout um setting expectations and then and then following through to make sure that they know he's not an absentee landlord which is I think where you find a lot of the issues and so tenant selection is a discrete idea is literally just getting applications and trying to select the tenant but there's a lot more that go into it than just that piece of the process. Mr. Roberts do you want to add to that? Yes I think one of the things that Tom points out that we have to be very careful that we don't discriminate so we set out the expectations about uh you know the financial capability the expected behavior etc but uh you know it it's a slippery slope so you have to be careful and uh we've been fairly we've been successful so far in uh being able to manage it I think as you you start to mention uh Mr. Judge that you know the price determines some uh of the ability of people to be in the project we require for most um if they are an undergraduate student usually they do not have um the wherewithal on their financial statement to show that they can afford an apartment so we require a parent or guardian signature on the lease and and they actually become party to the lease. So one of the one of the things that I found was really positive in the management was the the um the management plan that you have is that you speak about trying to be part of uh you being the applicant not you personally um be part of the neighborhood an appropriate type want to have an appropriate mix of tenants and I'm wondering um a couple of things number one if it's it would be good to know how that works to respond to some of the concerns of the neighbor it would be good to know how well that works and how successful it is in having a mix that's not dominated by just one type of tenant whether they be a student or they be uh seniors or whatever whatever mix you want but that there's a that there is a mix that you speak of in in your your plan that there is a mix and one of the ways to do that is to report the um to the town and on an annual basis the number of students the kind of the the demographic mix of the people living in your in your um development there um is that something that you would be I mean I'd be very interested in learning that I think that helps us as a town in future developments it helps us evaluate whether it's these kind of developments do indeed bring in a mix of an appropriate mix of of of both students and non-students faculty seniors others affordable and affordable units as well and I so I think that would be a really positive thing for to come from this um um proposal and I would like to know whether this is something that you would um agree to as a condition so it would be a report on an annual basis with the number listing that the the um occupations or the the demographics of I don't know what the right word is but of the of the tenants so that we know of course successfully achieving the kind of mix that we wanted in these neighborhoods I don't have a problem doing that as as as far as it's legal to do I mean I think it's like a street list it gives usually the name of the person in their occupation uh so I'm not opposed to supplying any of that information as long as it's legal for me to do so an ideal to Mr. Reedy to tell me what how much I can do and how far I can go you know yeah and I think I mean depending upon what's in the information I think as you've described it Mr. Chair it's probably fine and understanding what the town what the data is that the town is looking for I don't see an issue um having that as a condition Mr. Marder we just does that raise any problems that you can see for the town to try to collect that kind of information and then use it for helping us make decisions about other projects in the future no I do not in fact I actually uh had this conversation with our town attorneys specifically around this question and uh you know we believe that it's appropriate for the board to ask uh through a condition of the permit to have the applicant report on um you know the type of tenants that exist in the the development specifically uh you know those that are undergraduate students and I think if we can craft a condition that gives us you know the ability to work out with Mr. Reedy the specifics of that request uh but knowing that you know we are um you know as part of that uh very much interested in the the number of units that are occupied by students and we would also define what we would like to include what what a student would be uh in that uh in that type of reported so we think that's perfectly a appropriate request good well Maureen let's um let's work on a condition for next meeting to put that into place and you can work with the applicant to make sure that everybody agrees on the language all right um are there any other one of the things that we I think we should cover at this point is we had asked the town I'm going to interrupt Mr. Reedy's presentation one of the things that we did ask the town for was um an assessment about whether we could limit the number of we could impose a limit on the number of students in the uh as a condition of the of the um application um number of students that living in the property and the advice we got from the town attorney is that that is it isn't clear yes or it isn't a clear no but the advice is that it is not it is not warranted it is not um wouldn't be wise for us to try to impose that upon the client the client of the applicant the applicant could may be able to do it if on their own if they felt comfortable that would be their judgment but and if they would agree to a limit that would be something that we could impose but a non-agreed to per se condition that we imposed on the on the applicant without their agreement would raise could raise some real issues that we probably do not want to get into um that was a surprise to me and I but I defer to the judgment of the town attorney um perhaps Mr. Mora you I know you've had the conversation with the town attorney you may want to um expand on that but I that's what I take away from the the warning that we were given by our town attorney yes I think you captured that really well and you know as I think you know indicated by the applicant there's a real concern to be careful not to discriminate against a particular class of potential occupant and the the advice although no legal precedent in this exact question uh the advice is to stay away from these types of conditions that would either limit or prohibit say a student from living in a development to be careful not to inadvertently violate fair housing law state or federal and you know that that again is the town attorney I think giving us uh wise advice and and caution and you know I think puts the emphasis on there's just as much of a concern from the developer or landlord standpoint as it would be from the town uh town standpoint of imposing a condition like that so uh you know with that in mind we we feel like we're we're probably best to do what we always have done is focus on conditions of the permit that will help regulate and and be enforced or enforceable because we feel like a condition such as limiting the the number of students in development would would not effectively be enforceable either by my office or probably not even likely supported by a court if we were to you know go through the time and expensive trying to do that you know at least at that moment this moment that's our the best advice from our town attorney miss parks I'm just wondering if there is an intention to just have one person per bedroom and one person per studio unit um because by increasing the number of units from 17 to 22 if you allow four in each you're actually increasing the possibility of 88 occupancy now from 68 and so I'm just wondering if the intention is to do that if there's a three bedroom is the intention to have three people or is that not going to be a limit and the same thing with the studio yeah so if I could mr chair um yes mr reedy thanks um yes that's the intent but I don't know that we would say that is absolutely going to happen every time um if you've got a family and it's a three bedroom but there's four people you know we run into an issue there if there's a studio and there's a couple maybe there's two people in the studio and so I think we had a similar conversation at one university drive south where and and it's it's not the intent to put four people in a studio so could could four people be in the studio yes but you know what would that be you know parent and baby twins maybe so I be careful about you know and I try to be flipping and I'm just thinking of when conditions are imposed here to them and to say one person in the studio you know I just want to be sensitive to that I hear you and just would say can four unrelated people live in a studio it'd be technically yes but practically problem I mean four unrelated I would I would think we'd be fine with I'd have to think about a bit of condition saying that four unrelated could not live in a studio I mean that's not it's not the intent to to pack folks into here I mean and hopefully that's clear through the balance that every people's that we're doing understand the the questions and thoughts but when you look at the total prop we're looking to that's not the intent and it might just be the order in me that needs to get restrictions yeah mr. Mara I see your hands up you know understanding mr. Reedy's comment I just want to state that the zoning bylaw defines family a number of different ways one specifically is in section 12.173 anyone who wants to follow on with their bylaw a group of individuals I'm sorry 12.172 a group of individuals not to exceed four residing in a dwelling unit so the applicant could agree to a condition of a permit that occupancy is defined by 12.172 for a particular unit size shall not exceed you know more than you know two three whatever the appropriate number is so that in no way would you know create a problem for a group of individuals that are related living there in the examples like mr. Reedy gave so that's just an alternative or an option to address Ms. Park's question and concern about four unrelated individuals living in these smaller units I think this is actually something the board has I know this is something the board has done on permits and requests and that could be enforced through the lease as well correctly that the lease could limit the number of people pursuant to our bylaw to that smaller number than four for a studio apartment yes it could yeah mr. Reedy did you understand what mr. Mora said and and the concerns of Ms. Parks and would that be something we can work on I don't see I don't see the I know it's not your intent to have I I can't believe it's your intent or the intent of the applicant to have four people four unrelated individuals in a studio or one bedroom apartment it can happen with the family we understand that that may be the case but I doubt that that's what you want and I it's probably too much use so can we work on this to use that part of the bylaw to give us more more comfort that we won't have overcrowding in some of these smaller units I take that as a yes yes yeah okay all right Ms. Parks is that solve your problem in this case I think so I just I'm reading the bylaw but um so how tell me how that relates that it's for so for a dwelling you would limit it to a family or related how I guess I'm just wondering about the wording of that mr. Mora I see your hands up help us out here yes so in the definition of family there's there's four options one of them 12.172 a group of unrelated individuals not to exceed four so that's the you know always talked about four unrelated regulation what we would say in a condition of this permit as agreed to by the applicant that for occupancies defined under section 12.172 for studio apartments there shall be no more than whatever number of occupants that you know that number is and that would be a condition of the permit and ensure us that in those unrelated group living situations there'd be no more than let's say it's two I don't I'm not sure what the board is you know good if decide on but whatever that is insert the number to that to that condition and that would be the way we would regulate that and that would be an enforceable condition okay okay so that would be if you were to say two unrelated then you could still have like a family member you could have someone with a child and a roommate still yeah well because under a different section of that family definition you know the group the group may be defined differently so we're looking at specifically 12.172 which is a group of unrelated individuals okay and I think that's what I was I thought I understand your understood your concern to be is that a group of unrelated individuals not those that are related in some other way as defined in the bylaw but a group of unrelated individuals having four in a studio apartment may seem to be too much although may be allowed by law may be too much and this would be an opportunity a way to regulate that with the agreement of the applicant okay would the applicant be agreeable to that Barry wants to talk but I would think so Mr. Roberts what I wanted to say was that when they apply for an apartment they're saying how many people they want to occupy the apartment then we put it in the lease let's say it's a studio apartment and a couple wants to live in that studio then we know and we write into the lease it will be no more than two people occupying this apartment so it's pretty much self-regulating through the application process because we're asking that question who is going to be on the lease who is going to be living in this apartment so and if they start to bring in other people as they live there we learn about and we say you're in violation or at least you can't do this so it can be a condition of the lease we can use it as a condition on the we can impose it as a condition of the application and it can be and you're representing that it will be used as a condition of the lease you can limit the number of people and various limits depending upon the size and the number of bedrooms in a specific apartment correct correct absolutely okay so I think we understand does that I think that addresses the concern you have Ms. Parks okay all right we'll work on that as a condition and reference the that the lease will also address that any other questions regarding tenancy management a tenant selection management the things we've talked about I had one other one other thing that I wanted to raise and one of the things I'm pleased with in this lease is the desire and the I think the very good discussion with the neighborhood and desire to be to add to the neighborhood not to change the character of the neighborhood to recognize that students are part of students undergraduate students are not going to be excluded from this property they're part of life in Amherst they're certainly part of life as you get close to UMass it's just that's just the fact of life and the neighborhood around there has had a number of undergraduate students living either in the the frat house down the road or in some of the non-owner occupied units and also in some of some owner occupied units but it is predominantly a family it's still a predominantly a family neighborhood and the look then it's desirous to maintain that family neighborhood one of the things I'd like to discuss with that with you Mr. Reedy is perhaps in the management plan that you've provided some kind of statement about an aspirational goal to keep that to continue that in more a more fulsome language something that talks about wanting to wanting to try to achieve a mix of students and seniors and faculty members and everything else and some and wanting to report to the town and at some point having a number that is aspirational not locking you in not limiting you but something in the nature of 33% is to see if that makes sense as a goal that you will look towards to see if that works with the neighborhood and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to limit you to that because I don't think that's going to work from a host of legal perspectives but I think it would be interesting if we could work out something that talks as you're aspirational and that you can look at this and see if it works with the neighborhood readjust as it goes down the road and I'm not trying to I'm not I understand the desire not to lock into something but I also think it's important to talk about and to put on paper sort of the philosophy that we've all talked about here in these last two meetings and if I if I could respond to that Mr. Chair I don't think we have any problem with identifying it as as an aspirational goal I would be very hesitant to put any number in there aspirational or not these are public records you know and the legal mind to me says wait a second if it says 33% does that then become a quota and is somebody going to have an issue with that so you know if you look at the first paragraph to our management summary maybe we can expand on that a little bit with some more goals for the neighborhood. So what I will do I've I didn't successfully draft something up so I don't have it prepared tonight I will submit that for the record and it's something that you can take a look at and submit it and all members of the board will get a copy of it they can look at it for the next meeting but and it is something that can be negotiated over the next you can look at you can suggest changes over the next a couple of weeks and we can review those suggestions at the next meeting that would make sense my goal here is to have some kind of a statement that looks towards not not changing the neighborhood recognizing the current kind of mix in the neighborhood and continuing that mix through this new development. Sure. All right good enough any other questions on tenancy management how about we review review the lease provisions regarding noise and disturbances described on page five of the lease and further detailed in the additional tenant management document. So if we go to the lease on page five you have to bear with me for a second and with all the other members of the board as we go through the large number of papers to find the lease here we go okay. Mr. Moore can you walk us through some of the concerns that we had about I think this was raised I'm not sure who raised this before but or maybe Maureen you can help us with the review of the lease provisions regarding noise and disturbances. What was the issue here? Mr. Jones. Yes. Yeah I think I had a specific question if the applicants willing to address in the additional information submitted you know the applicant emphasizes that in you know in illegal noise or nuisance violation constitutes a breach of lease and I thought it would be really helpful because you know I understand the realities of that you know we deal with this a lot and I thought it would be really helpful to get into the record perhaps by Mr. Roberts you know what really happens or what what is the expectation here because the plan doesn't really describe you know what will occur when a breach of lease is determined you know I can't imagine that you know one noise disturbance one gathering although technically a breach of lease will result in a seven-day notice and you know eviction process that's indicated in the enforcement provisions of this lease as well so I think it's just you know what what does the the applicant you know how does the applicant kind of approach these types of situations and what would we expect? Harry I think go ahead and just explain how it happens. Usually and I have I'm going to be perfectly honest with you receive noise complaints before my first call is to the tenant and say you're having a I have a noise complaint I want it you know to be changed the behavior to be changed right now my second call usually is to Mr. Laramie who was the liaison officer for the town and tell him that I've received the complaint and that I will be calling the tenant and visiting the site and then if it escalates past there we will give the tenant a warning and then if they don't like if it happens again then we're on to the seven-day notice and ask them to leave. So does that get do those notices get reported to the town currently Mr. Roberts or Mr. Reedy or do they get I think every Monday morning you can read the report of noise complaints etc etc that is has been filed and it is by address so if it raises comes through the level of the police visit the site then it becomes a noise complaint I believe I believe that's the criteria but as far as me calling in and I usually speak with Mr. Laramie and say I realize there might be a call from a neighbor but I want you to know that I'm headed there or if I spoke with the tenant and asked him to control his behavior so I don't know maybe Mr. Moore knows when it ticks off that it gets recorded that there was a noise complaint I'm not familiar with that Mr. Maury do you know yeah I think any police response is recorded you know it's going to be in the discretion of the officer responding whether or not it's a violation of the noise and nuisance by-law and that you know that gets addressed and written into the report by the officer so that's you know it really is case by case discretion of the officer to make that decision and is so if the management company handle it's on its own and doesn't involve the police the town doesn't know wouldn't know otherwise know about it is that right we wouldn't know about it and I'm curious maybe for Mr. Roberts you know how are these these complaints that he receives are these recorded are these you know kept throughout the duration of the tenancy and you know are those records that are available if ever needed and I'm asking that because I'm wondering if we work our way to a condition here on the permit you know having to do with you know what Mr. Roberts just outlined you know by a third response related to a news and nuisance complaint a written warning is generated by a fourth response the applicant exercises their enforcement provisions for the seven-day you know removal as described in their lease and I'm just curious you know I'd like to see that get more formalized into writing more reliable for us to be able to expect what would happen when we receive a complaint obviously we want to keep track of any issues with any individual or any a visual partner unit so we do to keep an internal log so that we can say you know just not relying on our memory of date and time and the issue so that we record that so that if it becomes a pattern that we can we have the backup to be able to say this is why we're giving you a seven-day notice would that be something that you could share on an annual basis with the town perhaps take off the names in a some way to protect privacy but is that something that you could on an annual basis compile and provide to the town that wouldn't be a problem would it Mr. Roberts I don't have a problem with it as long as Mr. Reedy says it's not in violation of that you know I just have to be careful yeah no I understand I'm not asking you to put yourself in legal jeopardy Mr. Mora oops you're muted I think in addition to that you know with a regular reporting or that part of the report I suppose that we've already started to ask for for other information that I'd like to see a condition that that written log be available upon request you know in enforcement response by our code enforcement officer you know in the in the situation where they are formal complaints that are registered with APD those are provided to us and and you know if we had you know multiple violations that were recorded it would be useful for us to understand if the owner had additional non-recorded you know instances that would help us decide where where the next step is for trying to make improvements with the either that occupancy or the property agreeable to the applicant Mr. Reedy Mr. Roberts okay yeah all right Maureen we want to work on that condition great I think we've shipped A, B, C, D and E of the and lastly is parking is the last issue I know that's been some changes Mr. Reedy on parking we had some questions about EV access and other things can you run through that for us that would be that'd be helpful sure so 42 total parking I'm sorry I had one I had one I you know I hate to do this to you but I had one question on the lease just a second I outlined it and it deals with parking so that's great all right that's my question is about parking go ahead sure so 42 total parking spaces and this is a kind of a system that worked at 70 University Drive studios ones in two bedrooms will have one space for each of those designated so that's 13 spaces three and four bedroom units two spaces designated for each of those so that's 18 spaces we've got an office space for the onsite manager and then there are three ADA accessible spaces those are not those are just ADA accessible spaces they are not attributable to tenants or visitors they're just ADA spaces and then we've got seven a visitor and what I've called ride sharing spaces and so really and I think what we want to do is probably designate one of those visitor spaces as a ride sharing space and so the idea is an uber or a lift pulls into the site and this will be part of kind of that that occupancy package that a tenant gets so that they're not traveling off site onto sunset ab that so uber is not picking them up in front of in front of the units at sunset ab but the uber or lift can pull into the site and so that would probably leave let's say six visitor spaces and one ride sharing space I think is what makes sense there in in Barry can talk about the parking management system I you know the stickers and I think he mentioned it before with the visitors being identified to the office staff and then we would make this EV ready so we would run the conduit we're not proposing an EV charging stations at this time we did receive some of that information I think Mr Meadows is the one who might have sent it to Ms Pollock about the availability of funds and so I have an email into DEP and Eversource for these programs because they're first come first served so I don't even know if there's any funds still available to offset the cost of these charging stations so what we'll do is we'll at least we're fine with the condition of running the conduit and I think what we would appreciate as a condition is we'll explore um but at least at this time I just don't know what sort of funding mechanism is there to offset the costs of those charging stations one of the questions I had is will the will the parking spaces be assigned to an individual will each parking space have a number and be assigned to an individual unit or will kind of be come one come all and you you just have a space and as long as you got a sticker you can play you can be any place in the in the parking lot I think the latter but I'll ask other for the Barry Barry how do you see this that's how we work at its 70 we just make sure that everybody that's parking there has a sticker and you know it's first come first serve and of course if you have a a tenant who has a handicapped a vehicle handicapped labeled vehicle one of those ADA compliant spaces would be made available to them I'm I would be some way that that would you must be able to work that out some way in the lease or to the agreement that that would be the appropriate place for them to park right yeah and I would have to look just at the leg out of you know can we say you know reserved for so-and-so um or does it have to remain open you know if we if we can I think we would um but if we can't then we'll try to think of another mechanism okay um I know Mr. Meadows you had some concerns about the EV system do you have any other questions about that or how the build up no I think the answer was was reasonable if there's if there are funds available would you commit to to installing because I I know that you can't get the funds if you just you're you're going to have an expense to run the conduit in anyway if you put up the charging station then you're eligible for funds if you don't put it up then you're you've just spent money for conduit that is not going to be useful so the question is would you commit to going ahead if there are funds available I think um likely yes I'd want to because I think there's some if you're accepting funds there's an accessibility portion of this as well and so I just don't know how that may change the layout so you you have our for what it's worth good faith effort that if we can make it work we'll certainly make it work and Barry I don't know if you have anything to add to that I think you've said it right it seems to me Mr. Meadows that market forces are going to we're going to really demand that this is something that's provided so I think if there is a condition that says you will make a good faith effort to do this you've met the you haven't been locked in if you can't get the funds or the market doesn't develop you've met your concerns I think about a good faith effort that they're really going to try to explore for those funds and will and if they get them or the market forces force them to they will put in the charging stations does that meet your what you were concerned about Mr. Meadows yes it does okay so Maureen will work on something that has language with the requiring a good faith effort on the part of the applicant Mr. Mora will you have your hand up just if the board would be comfortable with that condition stating that minor adjustments to the layout as Mr. Reedie stated there would be you know an accessible aisle that would or clearances that would be needed to be maintained for that charging station space so possibly could shift or even eliminate a parking space to accommodate that so I'm just wondering if you know to save the board in the applicant time of resubmitting for any amendment in the future that you know we would handle minor adjustments to accommodate a charging station I'm comfortable with that I don't need another meeting for something that would be just implementing our desire so whatever kind of language we need to put into place on that let's do that great other questions about anything this is a good opportunity for us to ask questions about this before we go to public comment Mr. Chair do you want to see any of the floor plans so I don't know if you want Jonathan to present because there were a couple of changes yeah I think that'd be good yep because I've reviewed them all especially the studio apartments and the access to studio apartments and the one of the things you asked Jonathan to highlight is the bike path the bike storage areas because I know there was a concern about that you didn't add additional outdoor ones but you said there's enough room interior interior room for bike storage so that would be helpful all right your name and address for the record sir uh Jonathan Salvin funeral architects and Craig has a his hand up I don't know if he wants to ask his questions before I dive in well one of the questions was for you Jonathan so I can wait until you talk but I it wasn't about layout it was more uh I noticed as you indicated last time you were you were talking about using an air to air system yeah um and I don't see any pads or placement of where those would go uh in the in any of the sets of plans that we have been given we well sorry sorry go ahead is there did I miss it or no um we we were somewhat scrambling to uh to update some of the drawings but the intent isn't actually not to pad mount them but to building mount them on um they're kind of like little shelves that'd be up about 18 inches off the ground uh and they would be in the in those enclosed fence areas behind the the building in each of the I'll go to the general location you're talking about dark receipt punch there yes if if we go that approach um but to give you a little bit more robust kind of answer this is the last time we had talked briefly a little bit about whether uh you know a ground source uh you know approach would be appropriate here and we're not necessarily precluding that um what we want to do is as new construction and predominantly apartments well not probably at least 50% apartments now um actually we are more apartment buildings than than duplexes uh we're going to work with our curse raider to try to hit the the most efficient and most cost effective in the form of rebates and if we can if we can make that work with a with a ground source we can eliminate this need for the for the outdoor condenser but that's that that work is a little bit downstream of where we are with the development at least on the architectural and building system side but if we do have them they'll be in those enclosed areas and I can try to highlight that as as I walk through is that does it help okay great thank you yep Tom if you could bring up those images those drawings I don't know if you want to because I don't know that folks want to hear my choppy voice again so if you've got no if you can bring them up I'll talk to them I'm totally glad oh yeah Jonathan if you could do it I think it'd be better if you could share your screen if I give give me one minute uh and I will do that and if I get choppy then we'll we'll we'll have to uh get creative here um one if you get choppy we'll have to go old school and actually pull out pieces of paper and look at them all together yes we'll have to look at them all together and go through it it's one of the disadvantages of zoom life is that would be easier if we were all in the same room to do this so so what I'm going to to do is I'm going to so this will be a little choppy and a difference it's I'm only going to bring up one set at a time so to to reduce the possibility that I'll make myself but choppy so there'll be a little pause while I have to put one PDF away and bring another one up um and make sure everyone can see this can you see uh drawing sheets okay and we hear you very good so I'm going to start with the the type a building um and just to kind of refresh everyone's uh memory back to the beginning of tom's presentation um that now consists of three buildings one here at the corner of fearing and sunset uh one kind of in the middle on the front row and then uh one building uh in the back row um in the southwest uh corner I'm keeping my orientation straight in my head um this this unit type didn't really change much but I just for consistency I'm going to walk through it um again this is just a quick view doesn't have all the pretty landscaping that that handy bones drawings have um but this is a view a typical uh type a duplex unit again this is two four bedroom units I'm going to skip the really tiny ones and try to zoom in a little bit here uh is that big enough let let folks know let feel free to tell me bigger or smaller that works for me okay so on the left here this is the the basement level um which kind of contains the the mud room a laundry space well it's a mud room for the the folks that are on the fearing on the sunset um side of the parcel um but really just a laundry room more access to the garden space in the back for the um for the folks who are on the parking lot side um but here is one of those each under each unit there's a larger area of unfinished space um and this is obviously going to have some building utilities in it but it could also be bike storage it's a really good place for bike storage um so each unit will have access to um and this goes throughout all our building types now they will all have some access to indoor bike storage and obviously storage for the other things of life um moving up to the first floor level so along fearing street uh you know you would have a front door front door along sunset um either entering here or here off our porches uh an open living dining kitchen space a full bathroom at this level access down and access up from this location i'm now going to scroll down and hopefully not make people sick as things move um and again as duplex as the duplex units are designed there are four bedroom units on either side so there's a large bedroom with a walk-in closets um a second bathroom and then three smaller bedroom spaces each with with their own combination of closets and both sides are really mirror images of each other the units themselves are offset so that we can develop the architectural character that that we were working with uh when we were meeting with the um local store district oops i'm sorry that's popping back and forth um so this is the the front elevation so on sunset this faces sunset uh and on the the back row this faces the parking lot each unit has its own uh entry uh the duplexes again working with the local store commission are set up about 30 inches from from the grade or at least the first floor set up 30 inches from grade uh to kind of replicates um that sort of traditional uh single family home historic home uh kind of proportion you know how the house building sit on their on their land um this is the right side that kind of shows the the land tapering away uh with our grade this is the rear elevation so for the folks on sunset um this is their back door which would have a you know the ability to kind of function as a mud room as you walk in as well and then lastly uh here on the is the left side of the building and then so i'm gonna i'm gonna stop sharing for a moment open up my next one oh i'm sorry before you leave i had i had one quick question yep yep i have one quick question so does this have two full these units the the duplex units have two full baths including a shower is that what i see a shower on the first floor yes that is correct all right so you have a bathroom upstairs and a bathroom downstairs full both full baths okay and i've done a number of iterations yes i just wanted to check on that the downstairs one will have a shower as we're currently configuring it and then there's a there's a bathtub shown on the on the the second floor all right thank you and i'm gonna apologize we might have a slight interruption my my 10 year old just came back from track and i can hear him so give me one moment to let him know i'm home uh but that he needs to be quiet one moment hello there we go good my apologies my wife's working till nine tonight so i'm doing lots of juggling and uh lots of uh things at one time okay so all right the only question i had on that that's building type a thank you yep i'm gonna stop sharing that one members on building type a all right good enough now oops now i gotta open up my other one give me um moments miss parks has a question oh miss parks i didn't see i'm sorry it's okay i just have a quick question about the the walkout space in the basement could that potentially become a living room i know it couldn't be a bedroom but yes uh that way i'd be a question for for for buried it wasn't the intent to develop more space you know there is a certain uh balance between the amount of space we finish and the affordability of of the the units um if you get too large uh they they become more complicated one moment benjamin this is a medium okay okay hey look go let's go microwave it have that can you help me microwave it uh best laid plans um so what is the ceiling height downstairs is it eight foot yeah i mean we want to we don't want to feel um unpleasant when you're using it for the laundry which will be the which will be down there in these uh so it will have an eight foot ceiling and then the mud room laundry area will have a finished ceiling i don't think we would finish those those other spaces with the ceiling um it'll depend on where we put the insulation and this you know some of the other details that we're still working through does that answer the question yes okay yeah sorry thank you other questions or should i move on to the next building type because no other questions you can move on okay let's see sharing that one um should be seeing building type b let me know if you're not and were there many what were the changes in type b so so b b previously was that what tom described is that three day wide unit and so it's it's this is basically a complete redesign of that we started the a type footprint um and instead of having a duplex units for bedroom duplex units we went which are essentially like townhouses we went to a sort of a flat approach and thus the building became a small apartment building and so we have two of these both in that that back area that faces the parking lot um and there's an example of one of them as tom alluded as apartment buildings we have to the ground floor units have to be accessible and ground floor in this case has is defined as within three feet of of grade so the the first floor units are what are called group one accessible um and so there's there's that that ramp is kind of tucked in there that this building has a very slope low slope pathway in lieu of a you know a steeper steep a steeper ramp okay so moving into the details um so instead of as was in the type a building a basement with it with the laundry in the in a mud room we actually have two units in the basement two studios so there's a studio here and a studio here um they're off accessed off a common entry call and the other kind of big change when we went from duplexes to an apartment building we went from each unit having its own stair to a common stair that serves all the units um and so as I said there's the studio at each each side of the uh the floor plate uh again um each with their own laundry in the unit and open uh living dining in this case sleeping space uh moving up to the and is there is there um a secondary egress out of the studio the secondary egress uh is is up the stair so one way is okay so you go out the door out the stairs oh got it okay and then just one door yep all right okay thank you um and then moving up to the first floor level we have a on the the right hand side here we have a two bedroom unit um and the two bedroom unit is similar in layout to the the former b um uh but everything got it kind of reworked and and and redone um so it's got an open living dining kitchen space uh a restroom a bathroom full bathroom um and two bedrooms one larger than the other uh and and laundry facility within the unit itself on the opposite side of the hall we have a slightly smaller unit which is the one bedroom unit um but still with its own laundry uh a bathroom and the open living kitchen dining space and then if we move upstairs it's really a mirror image of what we just saw on the floor below on the right side there is a two bedroom unit and on the the the left side the one bedroom unit now to the elevations I'll zoom in a little bit really the elevations are strikingly similar to the starting point of that that type a building um we did instead of having kind of an inset porch for one unit both units have kind of a projecting porch um but otherwise the the general appearance will be very similar to uh the the type a buildings in their detail so that's that's our front elevation all right the right side the rear which now has a common entry points and I if I moved a little too fast some of these will have a slight ramp uh down at that that lower level to count for the grade while our grade drops off a lot it's especially you know well these are only in the back but it's not quite a full floor but it's close to it so we'll have a small six foot ramp you know all likelihood interior to the building for those studio spaces or studio apartments okay thank you very much and then all right right so a side elevation I think that's it for this building let me just make sure I haven't lost the page okay the do folks have a question on this building type miss parks um do you just um can I get the square footage of the studios sure they they vary a little bit in size and we have some flexibilities since they don't take up that whole floor floor plate space um oh and I didn't I neglected to point out the the bike storage spaces but if you can see this this area plan well enough you can see the the bike storage at the back so we have a little little flexibility here to make these bigger if we if we choose to with the small studio is uh three hundred and seventy five square feet and the large studio is five hundred and fifteen square feet thank you yeah uh Dylan have you seen oh Mr. Maxwell Mr. Maxwell I'm muting probably help uh there you go thank you the uh on the ground floor one that that one on the right there the bike storage utility yep what's the uh what's the reason for that design how it goes in narrowly and then expands out like that um it was mostly just the the way it ended up kind of getting laid out and trying to keep the toilet cores close to where the toilet cores are on the the floors above they don't quite stack um but it would be possible to have another configuration where either maybe this laundry was backed up to the kitchen for example you're you're looking wondering could we not get something that was a bit more irregular in shape yeah just yeah in this case it was mostly that the bike storage and utility space was the the space that was left over after kind of laying out a relatively um efficient unit okay so it was the unit came first and then then the bike storage just left left over that's not because it needed to accommodate the layout of the utilities no okay thank you oh good other questions or should I move on go on to the next one I don't see any other questions I'm gonna stop sharing that one and then in the background here open our third one and now you get to hear my cap in addition to my kids okay so building type C from the exterior is is very similar and and partly from the interior is very similar to what we looked at last time the big the big changes are really um prior to this the the townhouse style units which faced sunset only had access out towards sunset and so we have reworked this so that there's now the ability for those stairs to go down to that ground level and access the parking um from the back and we have only one of these as we did last time right here in the southeast corner of the site any about the on-site management office as well yes that's the other major change right yes yes I think last time we may have I've done many iterations but I believe the last the last one we presented had two apartments down at this level now we're one apartment in the management space the stairs as they came down took a lot of of the space that had prior been put towards one of those units so if I've moved into here enough each stair that will make more sense from above comes down to this level one of them acts as a kind of or connects to a shared entry that allows you access to the two bedroom apartment that that is down at this level with again that open living dining space two bedrooms one larger than the other restroom or bathroom full bathroom over here again a laundry space um and then on this side on the left side of the page we have that on-site management office it has access to its own entrance that's that's separate from the the the more private entrances to the to the tenant spaces but this would still be a kind of a common space that all tenants could access because this is the the access to the bike storage which is in this area folks can see my cursor moving up a level um really at this level and the level above the the the units are really unchanged I do believe I I may have I do believe I mirrored the building from the last time you saw at the three bedroom I believe was on this side on the right side the last time um but as I was developing that that um that the two bedroom unit in the basement and the management office really made sense to flip the building as the stair configuration was more efficient to the layout that was working on the the lower level so these are these are essentially unchanged from their their unchanged except that they they flipped and the stairs go all the way down um again the open living dining and kitchen space this is now the three bedroom unit on the left hand side of the page then the very similar layouts the the four bedroom units to the right and then if you move up again one more page there's that three bedroom second floor with a large bedroom and a walk-in closet a bath and two smaller bedrooms and then the two four bedroom uh units which while they vary a little bit haven't varied since the last time you've seen them with a large bedroom um in one of two different locations and then three smaller bedrooms around great thank you Jonathan um any questions regarding layouts from board members all right I will thank you very much Jonathan not at all thank you for your presentation yeah um Mr. Reedy is there anything else involving changes that you want to make or are there other questions we have from the board um before we go to public comment right um I have a landscaping question but is that we'll wait that till next week or no no you can do it right now next week go ahead yep um simply the arbor vidy that we discussed last meeting um as not being pollinators and I I I did check with someone who is deeply involved with pollinators and it seems as though holly bushes would be a better idea than they are providing along the that wall they prevent a good barrier same time they are attractive easily maintained and uh are good pollinators um do you want me to yep go ahead introduce yourself first I well I got it um so my name is Andrew Bowen I'm uh landscape architect and principal of place alliance um and the landscape architect on the project um the the diversification of of plant material in this project is pretty intensive when you look at the um when you look at the plant list so we were looking for um early season pollinators mid season uh and even late season um and also looking at climate adaptation as well one of the issues with the holly bush is that um it's very susceptible to burn in the summer um where the more um um a more a more rugged plant um specifically when we're looking for this heavy screening through this area uh would be the arbor vidy um and I you know I think I'm I'm comfortable with the fact that we have so much um other plant material in here um that that provides that habitat and that pollinator capacity um throughout the year and I guess I that the plants that are laid out in the plant or the plants you intend to plant what are the examples of pollinators and and how that you have sure um so through through the different plant materials we the broken down into tree species and those tree species provide um a variety of flowering capacity um at different times of the year um so everything from uh the simplest thing of an American redbud to go to dogwood to the American sweetcomb those are all all very early season um pollinators then we move into the shrubs the fragrance sumac the nine bark um the hydrangea uh ink berry holly these are all very very um flower producing through producing um plant materials and then into the ground covers and perennials um you know we have butterfly weed uh berry um the different fresh fescues and grasses are used for for the edible pieces of their uh their flowering heads um we have black eyed season little blue stem all of these have you know the ability for foraging um pollination food cover um to kind of list those um from there one of the conditions that we always apply is that the landscaping has to be maintained for the design and one of the one of the attractive things of this um application is the is the really intense landscaping that is there and that would be you would be required to maintain that that good order so that's great great mr meadows um do you have anything else you wanted to comment on that I just wanted to make sure we understood what the other pollinators were now I I understand uh and I understand I appreciate the effort to get a lot of other pollinators in there I think it's it's very valuable to have them in there but they are providing take up a lot of room they are not particularly attractive they and they could be replaced with holly bushes that that uh I've got holly around the house here never had any problem with burn on it um so I would rather see those replaced with the pollinator than have them stay as they are all right I I would like to move to um public comment oh I think Maureen Dillon had oh Dillon I'm sorry mr maxfield yeah I just wanted to ask um that went from two affordable units to three what um which types of units were going to be all the uh the affordable ones it's a great question so um we'll have that for you next time it'll either be a studio a one and a two or two studios and a one or um one studio and two one so of those three we just have to do a little bit more research to find out really what the what the demand is now we had said before between twos and fours twos were much preferred as you heard I didn't say anything about threes and fours because those just there's really no demand in the affordable community for those so let us get our house in order a little bit more and then we'll come back with our suggestion mr reedy you'll be working with oh I'm sorry Dillon go ahead oh yeah I was gonna follow up with that um I don't know maybe if it was in there and I've missed it in the submissions but I have the rent for the estimated rent for the four bedroom what's the the estimated rent for the studios the ones the twos the threes you do you have that in front of you yeah so studios so market rate because affordable is going to be completely different affordable is like for studios 700 for ones like eight to 900 and for twos maybe like 11 to 1200 that's affordables for market rate studios 1500 to 2050 um for one bedroom 1600 to 2100 for two bedrooms 2200 to 3000 uh and three bedrooms 3000 to 3900 and then four bedrooms 3700 to 4500 I think Ms. Pollock did a great job in the project application report I think she called those out too got it yeah those are my questions thank you and of course you am I right that you will work with the agencies to determine what that demand is for affordable housing as opposed to just making them available on your own judgment right yeah and and so it's a it's a pretty I'll say onerous but I use that as politely as I can it's a pretty onerous process that you have to go through in order to get actually get these approved so yeah we'll work with probably s e b housing who we've worked with for one university drive south um and then gale flood uh one of our team members she is certified in affordable housing so she really has her finger finger on the pulse talks to amherst housing authority talks to greenfield housing authority so it'll be a well informed decision great all right if there's no other questions from members of the board I'd like to open this up to public comment members of the public if you wish to comment please raise your hand if you will when you get recognized identify yourself by your name and address for the record try to keep your comments to about three minutes um and we'll see who and we welcome your we open up the um the meeting to the public at this time I'll just give people just give them a minute they've been very patient going through the process we have one it looks like Dorothy Pam go ahead Dorothy I want to count Dorothy Pam 229 Amity Street speaking as a private citizen I do want to to thank the applicant for all of the changes that have been made um I am also very heartened by the discussion about the lease and some of the conditions that Rob Mora has been mentioning and I have one more condition to suggest um which is to put in the lease that you can't use the basement as a living space I mean I'm sure there's a better way to word it but um you know because there's some people say I don't care I'll sleep in a sleeping bag but but that should that should be in the lease that you cannot um use that as a living space um I would also add a comment about the Arba Vides I had a big hedge of them that where they all died they need a lot of sunshine and um I don't see that space having quite that much sunshine and I I agree my holly bushes which I have at the front of my house are doing beautifully but they also really do provide a really good barrier um I think that the the rents are very very high the the market rents are exceedingly high um I think the fortibles um for the one bedroom the eight to nine hundred that's that's actually pretty good um I think perhaps a studio at least a small studio should be a little bit less if it's but you probably I I mean I think you you can't you can't put all the affordables in the same place can you um don't they have to be sprinkled around or um yeah Maureen says yes um so there seems like an awful lot of thought and care about the way that the people the residents will move about the lot um the only thing I would add to Mr. Robert's comment about how well his tenants at 70 University behave they don't have a big common green they have really almost no outside recreation space and this has been looks like a wonderful layout for a family apartment complex but there's got to be and I guess he'll have to really be really strong in enforcing it to keep the students from thinking they can party in that beautiful space because that would be really destructive of the whole concept as far as I'm concerned but I look forward to seeing it forward I think it'll be great thank you thank you miss Pam um Mr. Rosenthal please identify yourself and set your name for the record address thank you sir my name is Ken Rosenthal I live at 53 Sunset Avenue I want to first go ahead Mr. Rosenthal I want to first thank Barry Roberts for the time he spent with the neighbors who really appreciate his being there I've known Barry Roberts for decades and I know he will you're not Mr. Rosenthal you're not muted so um but we're not hearing you I we can hear you fine Steve can you can you hear me now sir let's see if there's we can hear nobody else it wants to be Steve can you hear Steve can you hear me you can't hear me we can hear you we can you can't hear us okay am I am I able to proceed let's wait for Steve uh for the now can you hear me we hear you do you hear me so I'm saying marine marine you take over running this until I can get my sound up not running it but identifying um who who should talk my sound going again well I guess you can't hear me I'm going to text Steve hold on everyone I'd be glad to come I'd be glad to speak later on after you've got this resolved that sounds good thank you Ken there we go can you hear us now I can hear you okay all right Ken proceed can you hear can you hear me Mr. Chair yes I'm sorry to do that to everybody all right thank you what I was saying is um I've known Barry Roberts for decades and Barry does what he says he's going to do and I think we really appreciate as neighbors having had a chance to meet with him but I'm speaking to you now as a former member and Chair of the Zoning Board of Appeals which I was some decades ago and it's been my pleasure or maybe displeasure to wander around town and see some of the consequences of things we thought we did well that turned out not to be so well because we may not have been specific about what what we expected the developers to do so it's wonderful to hear the aspirations of what Barry and and Mr. Reedy say they're going to do but I think you need to be specific in the conditions and I'm going to make some suggestions about that and I will try to be as free as I can for one thing we appreciate the importance and he agrees with us the importance of having this development include workforce people people who are year-round residents of Amherst senior citizens perhaps as well as young families and young faculty members at the university this is his aspiration and this is what Mr. Reedy has said but now I think you need to include as conditions some of the things Barry Roberts has said he's going to do for instance we know that he speaks with the office of off-campus housing Sally Lenowski at the University of Massachusetts and I would hope that you would put as a condition that the owners of this property who will be somebody other than Barry Roberts decades from now will also seek to have their their tenants come from the the workforce and therefore they will they will end year-round so therefore that he's that the owner be required to speak periodically with the University of Massachusetts graduate departments and off-campus housing the Chamber of Commerce and the people in town hall who are responsible for for human resources so that we can encourage policemen firemen other people who work in town for the town and in the business establishments to to reside here the requirement that not that he succeed in doing this but that he seek their help in getting his tenants I know that you talked about the possibility of limiting the number of unrelated individuals in studio apartments to two I think that same number two should apply to one bedroom apartments because they have the same effect as studio apartment so there should be a limit there of no more than two unrelated individuals I I hope that the landscape which is so beautiful in the in the drawings really developed that way but I think you need to have some minimum requirements for what goes in initially for instance there should be a minimum caliber of the trees that are installed from the beginning so that we don't have to wait 10 or 20 or 40 years for those trees to mature so I I I go to the professionals to know what the minimum caliber should be but it perhaps should be 6 inches or 7 inches or so again I I appreciate very much what Barry Roberts is going to do and I think we have to put into your conditions those kinds of things that you expect future owners who are not Barry Roberts do just as well and I thank you for listening to me tonight thank you thank you Mr. Lowenthal anybody else wish to comment okay I thank everybody for their comments we'll go this gives just an opportunity for the applicant to respond if they so choose and after that for us to either ask any further questions discuss any kind of conditions and have generally have a discussion about the project and so Mr. Reed and Mr. Roberts go ahead and then we will move on to other questions from the board out subsequent to that sure thanks Barry I'll just go first and maybe I'll still all your thunder I mean as far as the first comment condition about not using the basement as living space I I don't see that as an issue I guess I would say in the family context if they wanted to use it as a living space you know if we're talking about unrelated if we're doing some differentiation if we're talking about unrelated individuals not using that as a living space the families you know I don't I don't know what living space is something more than storage in those duplexes you know I don't know if they have a playroom for their kids down there so that would be I think conceptually we're okay with it I think some differentiation would be good and as far as Mr. Rosenthal's comments you know a condition that we have those conversations with the folks that he mentioned I don't see an issue with that it's it's probably good practice first blush I think that second you know no more than two unrelated in studios and one bedrooms is probably okay as well and then the landscaping it's it's as per plan and you've got all the different dimensions on the plan and we think that those are you know as far as the volume of plants we have and the cost of the plants I think you'll see uh and I can always ask Andy to to support me here correct me if I'm wrong I mean those are some pretty good size plants to start with so yeah and Andy those renderings that we showed at the beginning you know is after what age of growth do you think those are yeah so there's a little bit of a variety in that but we're trying to show what it'll look like about five years out but the tree planting and size of the tree planting that's proposed to go in there is some variety in that sizing and that's because of the actual landscape market right now trying to find the actual material to to plant because of everything that's gone on with COVID so we try to give a little bit of a flexible room in that but even the minimum size of the trees to go in will be no shorter than somewhere between 12 and 14 feet tall for the shade trees if you get a really nice two and a half inch caliper tree it can be upwards of 20 feet um so we're trying to show the renderings um not at maturity and maturity it will be highly maintained fully filled out beds um and hedges um and trees that'll be upwards of you know 40 45 50 feet tall um in the parking areas along the the tree line in the amenity space okay thank you all right um this is an opportunity for members of the board to ask any other questions to comment about conditions and generally to discuss um this before we move to continue this public hearing until a later date so this is our opportunity let's take a few minutes to do that and then we can move to the other business the um administrative meeting we have after um discussion here well it looks like we don't have a lot of other things that need to be discussed i think we've had a pretty actually i think we've had a pretty robust discussion uh and then good participation from most members of the of the board and some members of the public so at this point um i would move that we continue this public hearing until is it june 23rd maureen the third i think that's correct i believe so let me just double check mr meadows oh you're muted and you're still muted i'm out of the country from june 18th until july uh third june 18th to july do they not have internet where you're where you'll be i could i might be able to it's possible i can't say for sure i'm going to columbia well i don't know if it's much going to be much worse than mr reedy's internet was there for a while so um can can everybody else make the 23rd i really hate to negotiate these dates at the public meeting but let's and if this date doesn't work and there's another date quickly thereafter that does work we can deal with that at the next meeting that we next public meeting and move it again but i think this would be the best that we and that is another month away if you can get on mr meadows that would be great um and i'd like to try to move it to them but i don't and i'd like to rely upon your efforts to to call in for that night if you could i shall make make every effort to do that and let us know if it doesn't work um can see what we can do but let's try to shoot for that i think everybody else is available that time miss pan miss pan tammy you said yes how about mr gilbert yeah i believe so and mr maxill yep we'll shoot for that all right so i move that we continue the meeting i'll i'll take a motion that we continue the meeting the public hearing the public hearings exactly thank you for the correction public hearing until june 23rd i have a at six o'clock at six o'clock mr maxill moves is there a second that again this park's second some motion any discussion requires a vote i chair votes i miss parks hi mr maxill hi mr meadows hi mr gilbert hi right motion passes um so the hearing will reconvene june 23rd thank you all for your work the next order of business is um election of officers for the zba um the three officers provided for in our um bylaws chair vice chair and clerk um how we'll handle this is to um receive nominations from the floor the vote will occur on the uh the selection this is a majority vote this you need three to pass not four um and only full members can vote but it's only full members are on the panel tonight so that works out self-selecting so um i think we should vote for chair and then vice chair and then secretary and then clerk are there any nominations on the floor for chair mr maxill our first question is uh you're not you're not leaving us steve are you not right now right now so if there's someday we can ever actually get together again that's what i'd like to that would be much better well uh that's okay right now the week no unless anybody had a uh coup plan for tonight i'm gonna go ahead and nominate steve as chair second are there any other nominations from the floor if not uh the vote occurs on uh steve judge as chair of the zba all needs a roll call vote i'll vote for myself miss parks hi mr maxill hi mr meadows hi mr gilbert hi all right for the next office of officer is uh vice chair are there nominations from the floor for vice chair or or it doesn't even have to you can nominate yourself to are the volunteers not just nominations from the floor if you're foolish enough to nominate yourself mr maxill i actually want to ask a uh question here because john we do lose you next month am i right about that you're gonna stick with us till the end of this um application and then and then you're gone uh it's unclear i applied for a planning board vacancy so we're contingent on how that turns out interesting um well uh given that we might be losing john soon figure might might as well give him the shot here if we wanted to stick with that uh that three month structure of vice chair uh do we do we all like that style i i don't mean to just ram that through do we all like the idea of three month terms of vice chair you know i think that has it's not provided for in the rules in a way it could be done and i'm not opposed to that being done the way it could be done is just a gentleman's agreement that after three months you resign your position as vice chair and reelect somebody else but right now the the rules just provide for um a term during your term so it could that could certainly be accomplished um through an extra legal extra legal uh process by um a gentleman's or gentleman's agreement but i i think it's fine if people would like to do that uh and all have the experience of being vice chair and clerk for a while i guess i guess them i oh sorry i don't want to dominate you go ahead tammy i'm just gonna say i like that idea and uh i nominate either dylan or craig to take on the vice chairmanship so that would be dylan i know they'd do it be the next vice to be the current vice all right we got one nomination for dylan and or meadows but meadows said no so maxfield is on the line for this unless unless gilbert can be unless gilbert can be a maxfield i would love to i would be i know he wants it all right okay so we have one do we have two all right it looks like we have a nominate we have one nomination for vice chair i like the idea of alternating every three months and we'll rely upon your good um good graces to do that um are there any other nominations if not the vote occurs chair votes aye miss parks aye mr maxfield aye mr meadows aye mr gilbert aye and now we have the uh the clerks the role um clerk is the last officer are there any is there anybody who wants to fill this role what is it clerk description of the role yeah i was just gonna i was just going to get that role get that description out because i think the unfortunately named role of clerk the clerk shall be a member of the board and shall in the absence of staff assistant and submit to the review by the chair supervise all the clerical work of the board including reviewing all correspondence of the board sending all notices required by law preparing rules and orders of the board reviewing all applications for compliance with the rules of the board keeping dockets and minutes of the board's proceedings compiling all required records maintaining necessary files and indices if the clerk and staff assistant are absent the chair should appoint an acting clerk it seems to me that the role of the clerk that this is that this is sort of legacy language in the days when we didn't have um the capable staff that we currently have assigned to us as the zba these are the kind of responsibilities that marine has handled well for a lot of this is what marine handles well for us on a day-to-day basis and then working with rob and others and dave we really have most of this cover i guess this is kind of the role of the clerk would be to i would guess every now and then check in with marine and see that everything's working out all right and if there's any she needs any help or if there's anything that needs to be done um check in with it but i think most of this is being handled i think satisfactorily by the staff currently so my view of this is that it's kind of honorific role and um i'd like to see somebody who's labored long and hard at this board have this so miss parks um you're do you're do a title if you want one sure and you don't have to take it we can just we can force it on on mr gilbert because he's going to be gone anyway that's a point it's yeah exactly i one of my least favorite things is taking meeting minutes and every time i turn around i'm in a position it's taking minutes again so sure you don't have to you do not have to can we nominate davor rob for this because unfortunately we can't they have to be a member of the board and they have to be a full member okay craig craig are you are you excited about this opportunity no no john would you like uh uh something to add to your resume i mean you can give it to me i'll take it already got covid like what's the odds you're gonna actually have to take minutes like i think we're in you're not you're not taking minutes the thing is if you if you take this now it's something you're not going to get over in the planning board because you're they're not going to give you this roll right away so put this on your put this on your resume right now and hell you might even have to stay with us for another turn yeah sure i mean okay take it all right you got it okay so um that seems to me there's no other climbing not anybody climbing for a nomination to that position so the vote occurs on mr gilbert being our clerk chair votes aye parks aye parks readily votes aye mr maxfield aye mr meadows aye you skated away without doing it and mr gilbert yeah let's go all right we've elected officers all right um i think it's great mr maxfield i think it's a great idea to alternate every three months i i really like that it gives people an opportunity and i know that uh in the next meeting i've talked to marina about trying to have other people take an opportunity to chair um an application and so she's going to make sure that each of you um get an opportunity in the near future to to chair but take an application run it's all the way through his chair in those cases you know i think it's a good opportunity for also for an associate member to sit on the board i perhaps will step off and let other people run but we'll work that through each of the the applications that come up but um we'll do this so that everybody has the opportunity if god not god forbid but in the case because i hope it happens that i'll be on vacation someday and we'll be able to lead a meeting so um that would be handy for all of you all right so the next meeting is june 9th june 9th and you're talking to people about setting up other people to chair those applications taking those applications and sharing them right boring okay yeah so i'll send each of you an email to see if you um would like to care those um three um one of the applications there's three applications total one is related to a proposed flag lot one is a variance which i think we wanted steve to handle that one because variances sometimes are just so unique and then the other one is a proposed duplex on a property that um currently has i believe a single family home so it'd be a single family home plus a duplex on the property would be the proposal so i'll send dylan and tammy and you know particularly to see if um you would have any preference or interest to do that uh chair that though either of those applications great so any other business um administrative business that members want to bring up at this point all right so i i think the next thing to do is um open up for public comment on any matter that was not before the board tonight and we have two attendees no hands raised no hands raised from panelists all right now there is no other business with no thing else on the agenda nor the business it's not even nine o'clock um so over the next month i'm sure you'll be getting more information from the applicant on this prior thing uh the prior application that we were discussing keep in touch with staff on that and um mr gilbert i hope you hear from the planning board that they're full because we we don't want to lose you i wish you bad luck with that no i i don't need that all right so do i have a motion to adjourn don't give you a motion or moved all right i hear a second the motion is not debatable chair votes aye miss parks aye mr maxfield aye mr meadows aye and not for long with us mr gilbert potentially i will give you an eye for the short term however all right thank you all we'll talk