 We're going to start, thank you all for being on time and for coming to this workshop. I'm Nancy Scholls, this is Anne Ferguson, and we're going to tell you a lot that we've learned over the past 23 years of kayaking together about flat water kayaking fundamentals. And a lot of the things we've learned, hopefully you can benefit from because, hi, would you sign in on the thingy there at the door? We've made a lot of mistakes over the years and hopefully by sharing them with you, you won't make the same mistakes. So the first thing we want to talk about, just the show of hands, is anyone here in the market for a boat? Okay, quite a few of you, all right great. Others who didn't put their hand up, I trust you have a boat or maybe you're not here to think about that, but afterwards you might be so inclined. There are several different major categories of recreational kayaks and they break down pretty much by what they're made out of. So there are plastic boats which tend to be indestructible but heavy. So a plus is indestructible, a minus is they tend to be heavy. They are the less expensive boats. Kevlar boats are super lightweight but expensive. Fiberglass boats are gorgeous. They're probably the most beautiful boats but they are more easily damaged and also quite expensive. And then you have inflatables, which you know, not the choice of most people but they're very popular with people who travel. I know a woman who would spend part of every year in Alaska, she volunteered to be a nurse or I think she was actually paid to be a nurse up there and she always took her inflatable kayak on the plane and used it extensively up there. Once you think about your budget and how hard the use is going to be, so for 20 years I paddled a plastic boat and I love the fact that it was indestructible. I could, you know, drag it across the gravel or slam into a submerged rock and not worry at all. And there's a certain peace of mind that comes with, I think we should close that door. There's a certain peace of mind that comes from being able to paddle without worry that you're going to get a hole in your boat. So you have your budget and you have what type of paddling you're going to do. The other things taken into account are length and width. Generally speaking, a wide short boat, so short is nine feet long, ten feet long, wide short boat is going to be stable and it will give you a good turning radius. So you heard the expression, it turns on a dime. So a short kayak, they'll often turn on it, be able to turn on a dime. But they tend to be slow and they can possibly have poor tracking. So tracking is the ability of a boat to go on a straight line. Now my old kiwi, some of you might own kiwis or have paddled kiwis, this is what they look like when you're behind one. For every stroke forward it goes slightly off to the side. So you're putting in a lot of extra distance to go from point A to point B. It doesn't matter if you're just kicking around in a small pond or a marsh looking at the wildlife. But if you're paddling the last eight miles of the Winooski River to Lake Champlain, that's exhausting for each paddle stroke to go slightly off to the side. So after 20 years of that, I got a boat that tracks better. I loved it because that meant that she went slower. And so then I didn't have to go as fast, even if I had a faster boat. And called it the Great Equalizer. Now narrow, long boats, longer boats, are tippier, not as easy to turn on a dime, but they're faster and they track better. So everything is, you have to kind of weigh, what kind of paddling do I want to do and how important is it to me to, and when I say tippier, I don't mean, I mean there are some boats that you get in and you'll like, you know, you'll do an Eskimo roll immediately. They're very tippy. Or have an Eskimo roll. But, you know, when I got in my boat for the first time, my current boat, I was like, whoa, this feels tippy. But then my body, you know, in a couple of minutes, you just adjust to it. Well some of those are like white water. Oh yes, we're talking, this entire presentation is flat water kayaking. Yeah. You know, so white water is another species. Yeah. So a narrow boat and a longer boat is probably a better choice for longer trips or trips on larger bodies of water. Lake Champlain, Cranberry Lake and the Adirondacks, where you are, you know, you may be going miles, you know, miles and miles. You will expend a lot less effort in a more narrow, longer boat. Some desirable features to look for when shopping for a kayak. Adjustable foot braces. Nowadays, any good boat should have a foot brace, one on each side, that comes toward you or goes away from you and they adjust to the leg length of the padlock. You want the braces so that you have a slight bend in your knee. If you have to have your legs out all the way straight and your knees locked to you and get to the brace, that is not the boat for you. You want to be able to have a bend in your knee. And I think manufacturers are getting better in terms of, hey, there's a lot of short women who kayak. We need braces that come closer. Also, comfortable, well-placed carry handles. Even if you're not going to portage, you are going to take the boat off your car and carry it to the put-in. And there are some boats, including my old boat, which have the most uncomfortable carry handles that dig into your palms and practically cut the skin. That boat was so nasty that Ann made these. So we slip it in the existing handle and you have a nice smooth, flat surface in your hand. So when we carry that boat now, we put these on. It handles the manufacturer made. It took me 20 years to finally get it together. But what I do is I just slide it through the handle and this part I just run through here. And you can have the ability to drive the hose through the house? I have a drill. You have a drill, oh, woman. So you sell those. I could. I could. I see a question about braces before you move on. Sure. As far as like braces, I have a classic boat. It was given to me as a gift, but it's great. One of the things that I find really annoying about the braces in it is that they're the adjustable parts of that are really hard to figure out, especially if you're on the water. Okay, good point. So before you get in the boat for the first time, let's say, unless you're a family and a whole bunch of people are going to be using the kayak and the foot braces keep changing with each person. If it's you primarily as the paddler, get in the boat on land. And even before you get in, reach in with your hand and bring it to where you think it's going to be, then get in, test it out. If you have to move it and you can't do it from the seat, which you really should be able to do. Usually there's a pinchy thing at the back. You sort of squeeze and slide forward. See, I can feel like I have to lay on the ground outside of the boat to get it to, and it could be just laying here to grease it up or something. Yeah, it could be that. That's a little bit of just kind of like you say, got stuck in position. But yeah, it's kind of a pain if you're, if it's a family and you're all different leg lengths, you're all using the same boat. And every time you get in, it's in the wrong place. But if most people it's their boat and they get it right once, then you're good forever. There's all different systems that they've made for adjustment that you have to figure out. Then you want to think about storage space. Every boat has a little, a medium, or a lot of storage space. It may not be an issue if you're again, oh, I'm going out for 30 minutes. But if you're going out for the day and you want to bring lunch and you want to bring other toys, binoculars, a jacket, this and that, you have to put that stuff somewhere. So you have options. A good feature to look for in a boat is deck rigging. You know, where they have the, like, bungee cords on the, and you can shove a water bottle or a jacket under those. That's a really nice feature. It's very accessible, especially when the rigging is right in front of you on the deck of the boat. There also are hatches, which are closed, usually for an aft. Those are nice, but when you're in the boat, you cannot get to your own hatch, typically, in your bulkheads. Prevent that. So they're great at helping the boat maintain flotation. But it's, you have to have a companion go up to your forward hatch and what have you. Another thing is, many boats, like my old boat, the only storage space you have is in the cockpit around your legs. You know, you may not want your water bottle constantly flopping onto your leg, but on the other hand, it's right there. It's convenient. So, you want to say anything about that issue? I saw, like, the coolest cockpit cover that was like a slide lock. A hatch cover. A hatch cover. Slide lock that you can easily access when you're on the water. By yourself. Yeah, so there's like, taking the time to check out these details of features are really, really important in getting something that you just exactly want. That is rare, though. If you can get that, you can access the hatch while seated in the boat. That's a really nice feature to have. My current boat, as sexy as it is, it doesn't have a lot of storage. But it's cute. But it's beautiful to look at. Okay, so the other thing is cockpit size. So the cockpit is the area you sit in and my current boat, the very sexy one, fits very close to my body. It's not like, you know, touching me, you know, how people do an Eskimo roll with their hips and no, it's not like that. That's more a whitewater kayak. But it's a smallish area and I love it because I feel when I'm in that boat, I feel like I am one with the water. That boat and I are together. And, however... I've got the world's largest cockpit. You know, I could have guests, truly. A dog. Oh, a dog, a child. Did you want to show them? Yes, but just one thing. She won't be... She got in my boat for a millisecond and leaped out of it. She said, I can't stand it. It's claustrophobic. I got in her boat and I'm like, you know, where are the sides? You know, it's like a big bathtub. But, you know, to each his own. So just to give you a sense of the cockpit cover sizes. So this... That's mine. Okay, so that's... This is you. Right. So this cover covers my entire cockpit. And they're elasticized, right? They stretch. I don't know if you can see the difference. Hers is very big. Yeah. Very big. But we each have what we like. And there's lots of boats out there. So you can find something that fits your preference. The seat. Oh, Dennis. With the covers, I got here late and maybe you discussed more. If you're just going out for a couple hours or whatever and it's not going to rain, you really have no need for a cover. I mean, I don't have a cover. So this is a cockpit cover is specifically for... We use them. You put the boat on the car and you're going to go somewhere. So that's to keep rain out when you're traveling. There's nothing worse than having the boat open. You're driving through a heavy rain. It fills up with water and then you have to lift it off. The rooftop with the water moving and the load shifting and you're both small-ish people. And on top of that, there's like limits of weight on the... Roof racks. Roof racks so that you're not allowed to carry that much. And water's heavy. So keeping the water out means that I follow all the rules. Yeah, that's really the only time we use them is when we're driving somewhere and we're putting the boats on maybe the night before. Maybe it's going to rain overnight, that kind of thing. Put them on. And it also has the added advantage of keeping things out of your boat, which we'll talk more about later. What kinds of things we'll find at home in short order in your boat, which you don't want. You still don't want. So the seat, very important. We've strongly recommend that you buy a kayak like you buy a car. If you can, get in it, right? Don't just look at it in a catalog and go, oh, I'll take that one. It's really good. And if you go in a store and think, well, how does that work? They have, they'll just grab two of these, put the boat on these, so it's protecting the bottom, and you can get in. And if you're shopping for a kayak and the store doesn't want to let you in the boat, go to another store. You definitely want to get in. And there used to be, and I think there still are, demo days at places like Lake Champlain and behind the Commodore Inn and Stowe where there was a pond. And you could not only get in the boat, you could get in the boat and on the water. And that's the best thing. And you could try a bunch of different boats in the same day, which is really good. LLB now that they're in Burlington. Yeah, they'll have it. And usually they're around this time of year, like May, at the time when- Where else are they? Where you can do that? So LLB has one on Lake Champlain and there used to be one every year in Stowe put on by Yumiak, I think. Yeah, so it's still there and they're still- Still doing it. So go onto their websites or call them up, say, when is your demo day? It's a great opportunity. So just sit in the seat and think about it. You know, am I comfortable? Does this seat fit me? It's just like a bicycle seat. You wanna be happy when you're in your kayak. And they are, many of them are adjustable. You can adjust the back. You can pull the back, change the angle of it so it's doing this or that or straight up and down. And that, as you pointed out- I wanted to say that about that because my legs aren't that long. And I thought I have to make some braces to put on my foot braces because my legs don't reach them. And I figured out if I tighten the strap for my back it moves my whole body forward so I didn't have to deal with the foot braces not fitting me correctly. I was able to get the boat to fit me just right by adjusting the seat back as opposed to the foot braces because they were on as maxed as far up as possible. Also in terms of color, we tend to buy boats based on oh, I like that color, but also be thinking about visibility. You wanna be sure that other craft, especially if it's a body of water that has motor boats, jet skis, even sailboats, you wanna be sure that they can see you. And you might think, oh, I'm so visible, but you're not. You're really low to the water and especially if you don't have on a bright reflective PFD or jacket, you're invisible to larger craft that are traveling much faster. So you wanna ideally choose a bright colored boat and the colors tend to fade in UV light. So it'll- Store them out of the- Yes, you want to. So before I turn over the floor to Ann to talk about PFDs, I just wanted to make a couple more recommendations about kayak choice. Paddle your friends' boats. Ask your friends if you can take their boats out. We mentioned the demo days. Watch for late season sails. That's if you wanna wait all the way through this season to the end and get a boat on sale. Umiac, they probably still do. Since they rent boats all season, they sell off their fleet each year. So you'd be buying a used boat, but you'd be getting it probably at a steep discount over regular retail brand new boat. Yes, store your boat out of UV light. The same with your bicycle helmet. UV light is damaging to plastic. And I'm not saying that if your boat is left in the sun 24-7 for X years, it's gonna fall apart on you. But it isn't good over time. You'll see the difference. It'll change the color of your boat. And structurally, it's better for it to be stored out of the sun. And then we mentioned we were going to, where's our little readable fabric? We mentioned the cockpit cover keeps things out. The problem with the cockpit cover is it doesn't breathe. So if you get water in your boat, it's not gonna dry out with that over it. But if you take a piece of fabric that sort of looks like this, it can be very lightweight, and drape it over your cockpit. This is a large piece, because it can accommodate, it can even fit over an ounce cockpit. And then run something like this, a bungee cord and a regular piece of rope. You keep it snug enough that spiders, skunks, the neighborhood cats, rodents, et cetera, will not crawl in. I have an ex-colleague who was paddling her boat on Lake Champlain, looked down, and there was a snake in her boat with her. So needless to say, there was a lot of screaming that went on. And I had the experience of loaning my boat to someone, my old boat, fortunately, and not coaching them on the use of the fabric or even the cockpit cover. And when I got the boat back, it reeked of cat pee, which if you know is a very impossible smell to get out of a plastic boat. So for years, that smell lingered, and it got worse. If any water whatsoever got in the boat, the smell of cat pee just wafted up. So keep cats out of your boats. If you learn nothing else today, keep cats out of your boats. Cats will come from miles around. They will, they will, yeah, okay. So now Ann is gonna talk about personal location. PFDs, not PDFs, that's something else. And I call them life jackets, okay? And I'll show you my first one that I had. And it was fashion forward, you know? Bubbly little red one and stuff. It was about as uncomfortable as they can be. Okay, Nancy's been wearing it. So, but you know, they're adjustable and everything, but with the back on it, what I found was that it would keep pushing up. And so like, you know, yeah, exactly. It was like massively uncomfortable. I never wanted to wear it. And the law is that you have to have one in your boat. You don't have to have it on, but there's times that you think, is it a good time to put it on? So I shopped around and it took me forever to find this, but I love this because this is all mesh in the back, or three-fifths mesh, right? And I can wear this even in the hot weather and it is wonderfully comfortable. And that's the one thing you really could start with is flipping the back. It's one point with the MTI. You know, MTI is the manufacturer. Other companies make a partial back as well. I like to have the yellow one for the visibility thing. Nancy has a yellow one. This is Nancy's. Now that she's gone over to wearing my old one, this is the one she had before. And there was a, I mean, she knows how to look sharp, you know, but it's one of those deals. That's it. That's the spot. That's it, right? But didn't you have to put it, it was like really weird? It's a pain in the neck because it goes on, it has to go on over your head. You know what? It's stuck on your head. Yeah, I don't know. And now there's a person, for some reason. So I got quickly tired of a PFD that has to go on over my head. So I started wearing Ann's old one, which as she said, you know, she didn't like it, but I love it. Because it goes on, you know, easy. It has a super easy zip. It's got two accessible pockets. We love pockets. That's a really good feature to have. It's the pocket that you have. And I don't have the issue that she had of, it would do this on her, you know, she'd be like, you know, so. And I would rip it off as soon as I could. The truth is though, they are warm. They are, they're hot on a hot day, but you know, there stays when it is not that warm and you're just like, they're on. Yeah, it does help you on a cool day. Helps you stay comfortable. And it helps you stay dry and on a rainy day. Just keep the sun up, it does. Yes, yeah. And also, you know, you've got to make sure that it's adjustable so that you can wear something thicker underneath and also you can get a nice snug fit for when you are only wearing like a T-shirt or something. So adjust that way. Wear a jacket when you try it on in the store, not just a T-shirt, because it might fit nice on a T-shirt and then you want to wear it over a rain jacket and you're like, oh, now I'm uncomfortable. So definitely make sure you have room for layers with that. I think that's all there, I was going to say. Oh, you were also, oh, go ahead. But no, about life jackets. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. Okay, so yeah, but do try them on and look for it. You know, it's all in the detail, isn't it though? I mean, just look for the features that you want and they are out there and you know, they make different products, it just takes a while to track them all down. So because I have the world's largest cockpit, but I don't want to also have, I don't like the sun on my legs and I don't, you know, when the water is a little rough, I don't want to have be splashed all over. So, and you know, I tried one of these things called a spray skirt that Nancy can wear because she's so long in the torso, but I could never get this to work right because my torso was short that they're designed so that you pull on these straps and they go at an angle like this so that the water, you know, drains right off. It doesn't on me. So, this is a two strap kind. It's like works like suspenders. There's also a single strap kind that I have that I don't like as much. I like the sort of the balance of two and it can cinch here. So it's up to you. You could have it like way high, like above the boobs or you could have it much lower. E.T.B. And it's got this. So here's if you would be the front of the boat there. It's got a built in little arc. So as the water lands on it, whether it's from your paddle or from rain or what have you, it goes off like it's crowned, which is kind of nice. So basically, this is the splash guard that I have and I just love this thing. This is my favorite thing ever. It does have that same curve thing that helps the water drain. But it also has a zipper thing on top. So we put maps in there. So they're right there on top. Easy, you don't have to dig it around or anything for that. And it's a little bit of a challenge to put this thing on. But once it's on, it just, you know, snug fits around the combing of the kayak. But it changes my big honking cockpit into a small cockpit boat. And so I have all the benefits of those without having to be in a boat that's really hard to get in and out of. So I really love this thing. It's called splash guard and I recommend them. This company seals S-E-A-L-S. So they make a cockpit, they'll make cockpit covers for every boat. All you have to do is tell, I think you just tell them what your boat is. Yeah, they're all by size and everything they made are. So this is a seals 4.2. And this is, well, that's different. That's not a splash guard. Splash guard, deck X. That's probably like extra, extra large. But, so Anne is in love with her splash guard. I personally, I am a spray skirt person. There you are, thanks all time. Again, I don't feel claustrophobic in it. I tend to, you know, as people go, I tend to be on the cool side. Someone who's cooler when other people are warmer. So I like being snugged like a cocoon. Not everyone does, yes. Okay, so that's the whole deal with spray skirt versus splash guard. And now I'm gonna talk about paddles. Okay, so we long ago figured out that, you know, you can get the kind that are one long honking paddle or you can get the kind that come apart. We're big fans of the come apart kind because it's, they're easier to transport. They also, you can do what's called feathering where you can have one blade going that way and one going this way when you're paddling in the wind. Okay, so then you can, whichever one is up in the air can go in, so you have less resistance to them. Let's put it together. Oh yeah. So they click into place. I wanna be sure it's feathered though. There you go. You got it feathered? Yeah. All right, so. But what we've learned is that, these are heavy. And you'd think, well, we can wean. But the thing is, is that after a long day of paddling, every bit of weight adds up. So that's when Nancy got this lovely little, what is this, is this fiberglass chance? I think so. Yeah. Or they don't disclose exactly what, for a secret recipe kind of thing. It's a secret recipe. These feather as well, but they weigh like a fraction. A fraction. We don't know if we'll put it together. But look at how sparkly it is, huh? And it's really kind of cool because it does help the visibility in the water. Because of the, I don't know if you can see if the light is gonna catch, but there are vertical, maybe you see the lines, but the sunlight catches that. And you can see the paddle up in the air, which is very nice for visibility. But let's put them both together. And anybody wants to come up afterwards, we encourage you to take the wooden one and then take the other one in your other hand. And it's amazing. And I was for the longest time, I like the aesthetics of wood. And so I didn't want a plastic paddle or a fiberglass paddle, but then I went on that. Then I, 20 years went by, I got older. And we did that eight, last eight miles of the Winooski into Lake Champlain. So I had a nine foot long boat that was like a bathtub and this paddle. And oh my God, when we were finished, I thought I'd have to have an arm transplant. I had my arms, I had to, we've got into Lake Champlain. And I think it was a nice day as I recall. And I like stuck my arms in the water up to the elbow. And I could have, I needed an ice bucket. I mean, like, I just felt like such burning. I said, that's it. I'm getting a new paddle. There you go. I'm getting a new boat. Yeah. And these go with their boat, so nice. We also always have drip rings on the paddles. This just keeps and minimizes the amount of water that after you've dipped your paddle in there and you lift it up, it just drops the water off of there. So it doesn't go in the boat. Do you want to have those when you're paddling? Huh? Or do you want to have those drip rings when you're paddling close to the boat? I don't know. Dennis, I tell you, it depends. She's a dipper. She, her paddles go way in. Mine just barely go in. So I, you know, to have them not, not, you know to fairly far down for me would be fine for her, she probably needs to have them up a little bit so that, you know, she doesn't get the water past them. But, so it depends on, yeah. Your style. The name of the fiber plaster. Well, this, her pad, this is made by Swift and Ann's is made by Werner, W-E-R-N-E-R. And, you know, if you're not sure, if you're like sticking your big toe into kayaking, you don't know if you're going to like it. These are expensive. You know, we've been doing it for decades. So we know we're in it. We should have just done this. Yeah, well. Well, the other thing is, they're delicate. So I mean like close to $300 for the paddle. But then again, this one, when it was new, and you can see. That one, especially right here, that showed it up. So little, little sea creatures. And this one I think it shows it better. Yeah, yeah. Technically, when you have a, excuse me, a wooden paddle, you're supposed to apply varnish. Periodically. Like you would if you had a wooden boat. And I was not very good about maintenance. So you end up having, you know, this sort of thing going on where the wood gets literally eaten away by critters that go out there in the ocean. And also pushing off. Oh, pushing off. Yeah, I mean, this over the years whacked a lot of rocks and, you know, push off. You get in your boat, you're near, you're on the sand or the shore. And the tendency is, you know, to dig the paddle and push. I would never. We don't push off with these. I like get in, I walk in, so I'm floating. Then I put, so I'm like, you know, and I'm particular about my new expensive paddle. Understandably. But this one, you know, if I, you know, people have beater skis, beater bike, this is my beater paddle. These are also, they go according to how tall you are. You know, the taller you are, the longer the paddle and stuff. So make, check your height. Oh, right, can you wince up your boat with that? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, if your boat is wider, you probably want a longer paddle to clear. I went paddling with a woman who was using somebody else's boat because she'd come east from, she'd come to Maine from Michigan. And in Michigan, she has a narrow boat in Maine. She was borrowing somebody's, it was a wider plastic boat. And the entire time, she kept smashing her knuckles. She's like, oh, you know, she just wasn't used to not having more clearance. So yeah, that's definitely a factor, how wide your boat is. Right. Okay, so I think that's it. Now you talk about dry bags? Okay. All right, so dry bags. Oh, one more thing, I'm sorry. There's a third kind of paddle which we didn't mention, which are the plastic ones. Very lightweight. I would say they're really hard to damage, you know? And inexpensive. And inexpensive, so for a lot of great reasons. You know, if you think you're gonna be smashing into rocks or you wanna be able to push off from shore and just dig it in and you don't wanna be prissy with it, get the plastic paddle. You know, especially like a Marshfield reservoir. Oh yeah. If you paddle there, there's tons of submerged rocks. What are you calling this kind of paddle? The mysterious fiberglass paddle? Oh, it's a fiberglass. Yeah, I think it's made of fiberglass, yeah. The mystery material. Okay, so dry bags. So a dry bag is the name given to bags such as these that if you have a canoe, I'm sure you're familiar with them or kayaking. Now this was my first dry bag. And I learned the hard way that while it has a nice feature of being see-through which I highly recommend, it's more in design, it's more like a laundry bag. So, you know, here's the length of my arm and it doesn't reach the bottom. So invariably the thing you want is on the bottom. And there's all this other stuff in between. So you're in the boat trying to, and this is in here with you, taking up a lot of room and the thing you want is on the bottom and you have to pull everything out and the reason it works in terms of keeping your items dry and it is a waterproof bag, I'll give it that. You curl it down to wherever your stuff ends and then you snap it shut. And that's fine. But as I said, the design is not one I favor. I favor more of the duffel bag design where the zipper is like this so that you're not like sticking your arm all the way in it. So they have zippers instead rather than a... Yeah, or whatever. The closure is such that you can get at it this way rather than the laundry bag way or, better yet even, several smaller dry bags so that one has your lunch and maybe another one has your camera and your binoculars and your nap. Or, you know, you give these stuff up. Two or three smaller ones rather than one conquer. And then there's, see, this is a lovely purple see-through. And this is a great size. This works out really, really well. You know, you don't... But I didn't know. Yeah, I actually didn't know. And then this is for like, you know, camera or cell phone or something that, you know, and this has like a rubber zipper thing on top that you just screws it together. Like you'd seal a Ziploc baggie. Yeah, so. Very nice. Yeah. This... I don't know that I use this, this one very much, but I use this just about every time. So this is something I have taken a nylon strap and I have secured it to the dry bag and then ideally you secure it to the inside of the boat so that in the unfortunate event that you capsize, your dry bag doesn't float downstream and your... So your dry bag's floating downstream that way. Your boat's floating downstream that way. And you're over here. Yeah. You're like, ah, there's my paddle. And you're, you know, we have had this happen. So that was a lesson in strap it in if it's not in a hatch and it's something you care about. The other thing that's good is once again, you don't want unfortunate things to happen. But they happen. So it's good to have ID in the dry bag. So if you get separated from it and somebody finds it, they can get it back to you. But you should always have identification. Not necessarily travel with your wallet because you don't want to get your wallet wet, but something that says who you are, what your contact information is in a place that can be kept dry. And a snap. Oh, is a snap. Yes. What else I would say about this? Uh, I think that's it. Okay, girl. All right, so, you know, the season's early, but, you know, we have a hard time waiting. So at this time of the year, what I like to do when I get in the boat is to float it a little bit and rather than put it so that like one end is in this gravel or something and then rocking it out into the water or trying to push it with the non fiberglass type. So I like to wear like those rubber welly boots, you know, and that works out really well because the water is really, really freezing cold. But the rest of the year, I like to wear sandals. And I like to wear ones that don't have a whole lot of Velcro or a detail to them because the Velcro gets sand in it and decreases its hold. We also are big fans of Crocs. These are lovely. You know, because those are particularly good for when we're putting the boats on the car we need to slip off the boats because slip off the shoes because we're climbing on the seats of the vehicle sometimes when you're really short and you need to deal. So, you know, pros and cons for every, every time. Nancy loves these because there's a lot of great support for her but this particular strapping is kind of unpectable. So, but sandals. Yeah, I think that covers that pretty much. Yeah, like with everything involving our boats we have very different preferences and footwear is one of them. But I have come over to the Croc thing. Crocs float too. Oh, nice. Good to know. They float. Yeah, well, yeah. They're, I guess the one thing, the thing that I'm such a big fan of Chaco sandals is, as Anne said, the arch support but these are not gonna come off your feet. If there are many times we're carrying the boat walking through water and, you know, if you step on a rock and your foot twists or something, they, we have, you know, we go to Maine and we do paddling involving current currents and tidal rivers and we have a friend who was with us who I don't know whether he, exactly how it happened but he stepped out. Well, the tide went out and it was really super mucky, super mucky. He stepped in the muck, which is like quick sand and he could not get out. He eventually got his leg out but the sandal is still in Maine. Forever. So I think that wouldn't happen with a Chaco. You know, you'd have to leave your whole body there. But the Chaco sandal would not come off your foot. So your leg would be in Maine. Your leg would be in Maine. So my arms were leg sampling at the end of the Winterski River. Art's foot would be in Maine. Okay, now one of my favorite topics, headwear. Hats. I have spent all these years since we became paddlers 27 years ago, searching for the perfect hat for kayaking because there are so many hats that you wear it and you're like, oh, nope. It's like Goldilocks, you know? Goldilocks was too hot, too cold, too this, too that. So many hats I have purchased and they're in my closet because they were wrong for various reasons. And I usually wear a baseball cap, which is good. It's got some downsides. One is that your ears will sunburn. On a bright day, your ear kind of sticks out of the baseball cap. It's not protected. In a stiff wind, this will blow off your head. So I learned early on that a hat with a chin strap was, you don't have to have the chin strap on, but if the wind comes up, you wanna have that ability to have that on. You also want a brim because you don't want your ears to burn and other parts of your anatomy. You also want the brim to be dark. Had many a hat with a light colored brim and the sun reflects off the water. So this is good for that. This has ventilation so you don't get a hot head. It also has a pocket if you need to put your key or your money in there. I haven't tested it yet. I think it floats. I just got it. It hasn't even been worn on the water yet, this particular hat, but I'm hoping this is the one. And it even has, I don't know if you can see it, but there's a slit here and a slit here so you can put your sunglasses and stick the arms of the sunglasses because they're, this is Sunday River, or sun dry, sun, oh no, excuse me. Sunday, so two words, Sunday afternoons. And this particular one is called Charter Hat. I wish it was a brighter color, but it came in only two colors. I think this was the brighter one. The other one was like more brownish. So, what do you think? Nice, nice, nice. With the chin strap. Yeah, even better. Love it, love it. Beautiful. I'd wear it back. I think you're gonna like that. Oh, well this isn't mine. This is another one of hers. Mine's at the home. Is that low? Oh yeah, they're right, it is low. Yeah, no, I have, I wear a hat. I guess I'm like not so driven about some details because I have a rain hat that I love, that, you know, and the rim for some reason is just right so when the wind blows it stays just right like that. And if it does rain, I mean, so I don't know if this is also rainwear or not. I think we'll find out. Okay. So, you know, I have one very versatile. This one. And it's black underneath just like this so that that whole thing with the glare is huge. It really is. This is the same company. Oh, how do you know? This one got retired because, I mean, it's got this nice French foreign legion featured to protect the back of your neck. But, so, of course, you know, you wanna be able to crush your hat to travel with it but then it does, this one doesn't really regain its shape. But anyway, I found that the brim was such that I couldn't hear. Yeah, that's huge, too. You know, it's sort of like cut off my hearing. And, yeah, I mean, they do have the ones that just snap up on the sides too. So you can, it's, the hearing is huge. It really makes a big difference. Well, it takes away from the enjoyment of being outdoors if you don't even know you're outdoors. Exactly. What? So, so I'm hoping that this is the winner. I think so. All right. Stiff brim. Yeah. And then I also have like classic, like straw hats. And I thought, oh, this is it, you know, lightweight, you know, straw, lots of cool air. But the first time I paddled, it was windy and you end up being garaded by the chin strap. It flies off your head because the brim was so wide. It's like, it looked really good. For two seconds before the blue back started choking me. All right. Did I go, oops, cover everything on that? Yeah, I think so. Oh, and a visor. Do you like visors? I do like a visor. Well, just because they're not as hot and they don't squish your hair, it's just so important when you're crying, I think. Oh, so gloves. Gloves. So I'm, we both learned by paddling bare-handed that, oh, it's a recipe to get blisters. Usually right here. Yeah. Because there's a little bit of moisture on the paddle from the water and you're, you know, and boom, blister. So we both found that bicycling gloves work quite nicely. They enable you to grip the paddle. I like this one because it protects me from sunburn on the back of my hand. Most bicycling gloves are open here, but this one isn't. And I'm also a fan of anything with nubs, like gardening gloves, lightweight gardening gloves, which these are not, but at least, but they have nubs. So you can grip and you don't get blisters. And on cold days, I'll wear a fleece glove. And if I'm still not warm enough, I'll wear a fleece glove and then a Gore-Tex overnit. So a mitten over glove. So it keeps me dry and warm. By then I wouldn't be out there. That was my thought. Yeah. Many a time I've worn these and been very happy. I'll just say. My number one thing about gloves is when you shop for them, make sure they haven't put a seam right down there because I got some like that. And you know, I'm wearing, I'm going, these are like, and they did. And I had to check them because the seam was right exactly where you don't want it, you know? Cause that's the spot right in there where you're going to be getting all that friction action that you're trying to protect your hands from. So look for that kind of a detail. If you do get gloves with nubs, don't get gloves with nubs on this side because, you know, every so often you want to, you know, scratch your eye or wipe your nose. I was like, ow, why they put them on both? I guess because then they're reversible. Exactly. But a lot of these come with little nose wiping things. Yeah, a little piece of, yeah, it is. I forget. Which is, it's like a velour. Yeah. Is it not a hidden to have them not be waterproof? They're not waterproof, but I mean. No, by the time, yeah. They're pretty quick dry because they're nylon. But no, in fact, a lot of times when it's really hot and I have them on, I stick them in the water just to get them wet and to cool my hands down. So, yeah. But these, even though I said bisoning gloves, I believe I got these. I believe they were sold as paddling gloves and that's probably why they have a closed back and not an open one. And that's why they're probably blue. Go with the water, I don't know. But, anything else I want to say about gloves? I think that's pretty much it. Oh, another thing nice about fleece gloves, they dry very quickly. All right. Transporting the boats. Oh, transporting the boats. Okay, so, I have my favorite thing in the whole world was something that I just learned, was it last year, the year before? I think, was it the spring of last year? Maybe it was two years ago. But, somebody showed me this and I was in seventh heaven. These are little cradle things that you put on your roof rack, okay? One like this and one like that, all right? And they have felt on me, felt on them. These go on the back roof rack. Then, we have ones that are rubber that go on the front roof rack. Again, holding the boat at an angle like that. So, back and front. Then, you take your, Bathroom rug. Your lovely aqua turquoise, actually. Rubber lined bath mat thing and you put that on the back of your car. Let me know if you want me to hold anything. I think we're doing okay so far. Then, what you do is you put the bow of your boat on the rubber back, little bath mat. That's all you have to do with that. You go to the back end, you slide it, you lift it a little bit and it slides on the felt ones. All the way up onto the car and then you drop the nose down and they sit on the rubber part. I'm in 7-7. Now, I don't know but maybe now with your smaller boat we could get two side by side but we have a different system for Nancy's boat. But, so this is for mine and that's good because mine is the heavier of the two boats. So, this system works really well. The number one thing you always have to remember is to put the straps onto the roof rack before you put the boat on the car. Otherwise, you have to take the boat off the, well maybe not necessarily. So, we also learned, oh, they're both here. This is the old kind we had which will ruin your car and smash your window. Okay? And so that one is not very popular with us now. Because that's middle, middle. Yes, because now we've got Mr. Rubber Guy here that is protecting our car. So, this is that same clampy thing but it is protected with the rubber. So important. So, yeah. The other thing that we learned early on while we were driving down Interstate 89 was that you do have to tie each boat individually. Say you think, I know, let's put both boats up and do one big tie. And then you're driving along the highway and you notice one boat is like wanging over like this and just about to fall off and everything else. So, that was a really good lesson to learn where no, nothing bad happens. I think it's called a teachable moment. It was a teachable moment. I roll those people blowing their horn. I go, ah! What's wrong? Aren't we going fancy? Hi! Hi! Yeah, no, you think they're like, wait for that, you're not sure. They like you're the boat, right? Yeah. So, we learned that the hard way. So, it's really, really worth it to take your time and get your boat well secured. Our friend Duncan, who's a, I don't know what his background is, but he's smarter than a whip. Well, he knows other stuff too. And he told us that if there's a twist in the strap, it won't vibrate. Oh yeah. It won't go, yeah. Otherwise, you know, you're going, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. And then it's a long trip to Maine when you have that going off on and on. So, what we do is we... But did you want to just clarify just one twist? Just one twist. Not a lot of twists. Not a lot of twists. Okay. This won't solve the problem. So, we put this across the crossbar, all right? And hang them down on the back of the car and one down the front of the car. And then we take our friend, the grabby guy. Yeah, because we have a hard time getting the straps over the boat. So, so... So, this is on your... This is on your crossbar right here. So, you open the car doors and stand up and that's easy to get this over the... You put these on first. Over the hardware. Right. And you put the boat up and then you take the little grabby guy. Just one, right? No, you do both. Well, hold them together there. Okay, all right. And you just... And you lift them up and over the boat. Over the bow or over the stern. Yeah. And this extra distance is all you need. Otherwise, you're like... Thrown in, especially if you've got a gale force win and you're like thrown into the boat. And it's blowing back at you. You know, you're there all day. Yeah, exactly. And then I always tie around the bar that's on the car. Not the crossbar. The crossbar that's part of the roof rack. Yes? Yes, so good, okay. So that's how that works. And the other roof rack that we have is one of those like poopy things. It's a jig. It's a jig. Yeah, and it goes like that in an angle. And that works out really well because Nancy's boat is lighter and we can together put it on the car. From the side. And again, the same deal. We put the ties on first and then we use the grabby guide to lift them up and over. And yes, we need to do that but there was something else I wanted to say about that. What? The rug there. What do you do with the rug? The rug is only for like this one. Yeah. Yeah. Put it back in the car. Yeah. We'll take it with you. We've had that happen too. Where you drive off and there goes your carpet. We'll give nothing wrong. But even these little details, I was so thrilled to have a system where you can slide the boat on and you're not wrestling in for. Oh, I know what it was. When we are. Oh yeah, this thing. We wanted to get an Impezza, another Impezza because it has great clearance underneath and yet it's not that high a car but for a couple of reasons we had to move up to a cross trek. And so because of that the roof is just high enough that we were having trouble reaching things. So we have a couple of these. One in the front, one for the four and one for the aft. Yup, so that we can climb up and these are highly portable, easy easy and you know you think really you want to talk with them about the stool. But it's just one of those details that you see other people too. You're like, oh yeah, they have one too. But they're just the handiest little things to deal with getting the boats. Just be sure if you're gonna use something like that that you don't put it on uneven ground. Because then you're standing on it and it's rocking and you're holding the boat. Whoa, not safe. Right. So can I mention the other use for this? No you can, go. Okay. Yes. So we also are addicted to picking up trash and we like to leave a body of water or put in cleaner than we found it. So we tend to bring shawls bags, like used shawls bags and have this grabber in one of our boats or on the decking. And so we found before that there's so much trash that you can't reach with your hand because it's on shore but just a little out of your reach but with this. Yeah. Or we can get the cans in or you see in the bottom of a lake or something. Yeah, and it's a game, you know. It's kind of like, oh, I think I can get that styrofoam cup. Yeah. And the plastic chair. Yeah, one time Ann took those green plastic chairs that people have on their lawns and decks. One of them was in Peach and Pond and got it tied it onto the back of the boat. Hold it out of there. What was that? You guys need to do a video, you're just too good. Well, no, the decking. I just stuck it under the decking but then we were at Peach and then this guy comes out and says, what the hell you got there? And I was like, we got this chair and he says, let me have it, I'll deal with it. Yeah, he put it with his own trash, which was really nice. Yeah, he took care of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We also have, you know, if you climb under your front of your car, there's those metal hooks that they use if they have to tow your car. And so these things hook onto that. So you climb under there and you look on that. And this, you put through your handle to hold your car and to hold your boat right in front of the car. Did they actually do anything? This is the coolest thing, huh? Oh my God. Sorry, got it right. Here, let's double dutch. Okay. All right, so then you make it tight enough and then you cinch it down. I'll pull up that, right? And then it just releases. It makes a great sound. Yeah, then you can just release it like that. And then. These are called. I think a few went into, for online searches, I don't know, kayak straps? Or. Max. Kayak bow line, kayak stern line. Toolies, they're toolies that make this particular one. T-H-U-L-E. Car rack systems. Yeah. So. Toolies makes a lot of, and this is a toolie strap too. Yep. So we use this on the bow and I try to actually run the strap down on the side of the car rather than the front so it's not in my field of vision when I'm driving because that gets super annoying really fast. And then we tie down the back of the stern as well with a nylon rope like this. And then we take this with us because say for example, Nancy wants to go another seven miles and I'm done. I'm like, you know, yeah, here you go ahead and we'll tie my boat to yours and like that. So we have not done a towing operation. It is good. It's nice to have something. It is good to have a. Exactly. To tie up. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so it's always good to have like a little nylon rope or something in your boat. For anchoring purposes. Yeah. The other thing that you didn't mention these. Oh yeah, okay. Well that's because I'm like so in moments. But if you don't have a system, if you don't have a roof rack, these things, it's kind of bent out now, but it goes flat like that and it can sit on your roof. And some people actually just put these on the roof, put the kayak on top and run the straps over the boat and in through a couple of windows and back out around the other way. And it works great. Yeah, whatever works. It's very inexpensive. And again, if you're not sure that this is your future, it's a cheap way to get into kayaking and not do the whole J rack and which are not cheap. They're not, but you know, the other thing is do check it periodically as you travel to make sure it hasn't loosened up. The strap tightness. The other thing is like Nancy mentioned before, we sometimes load up the boats the night before, but one thing we found out is that we do like to run the straps inside the car. But if it rains, then they're like wicking each other's. By that she means the straps have ends after you tie it up, right? There's leftover. We put the leftover inside the car window, shut the door. But if it rains, it wicks the rain into your car. And if you've loaded your car for vacation and then you've put the boats on and the straps in and it rains, all that water is going onto whatever, you know, the strap is sitting on top of. So we learned that if we put the boats on, we leave the leftover outside the car until the next day when we're still locked the doors, but you leave the excess outside of the car, not inside. Just in case it rains. Yeah, speaking of which of you guys in this whole strapping car access, did you ever make a certain insecurity of your boat? Yes. And so what we do is we take our bike racks. A bike lock. Bike locks, also known our bike locks. Cable, a bike cable lock. And run them through our handles. Which, you know, because it provides enough of a pain in the duty to show somebody down and say, you know, this. If we lock the two kayak bow ends or stern ends together, it's true that the boats aren't locked to the car. But it's going to be, it's going to make it hard to steal a kayak. It's going to be a security deterrent. Exactly. But a lot of those, a lot of them have a couple screws. Right. They just don't screw the screws. Don't tell the bad people in the world. The other thing is there are, as much as we love our boats, there are boats that are so much more desirable than ours. They're so much more expensive. And if somebody was going to go to the trouble of stealing a kayak off the roof of a car, they're going to look for a more expensive boat than ours. One thing you can do is put the boats on your handles and in some way grind off the hexes or drill out the screw turning part so that they can't do that. And whenever you want to get it out, you just drill the screw. I don't see me doing that. We're more trusting. Yeah. And you know what, that's why we didn't get the million dollar boats. We could have. All right. So now we're up to, as if we haven't talked about enough things to bring, additional important items to consider bringing. So sunscreen. If you've ever gotten a sunburn while paddling, you know how easily it can happen. It can happen in 15 minutes. I burn easily. So I wear a high number. I always put it on before I go. I always bring it with me because they say we apply, especially if you've been swimming or get wet. And I learned the hard way, put it in a baggie in addition to being in a dry bag. Because we once were paddling in the Adirondacks. We were looking for a place to have lunch. We pulled off on a sandbar. And it was a sandbar. So I'm like, oh, well, I want something to sit on. So I took that dry bag. And there was stuff at one end, and I thought. And I took, flattened it out a little bit. And I sat on it. There was a sunscreen in there. It wasn't, yeah. It wasn't in a baggie. And it got all over everything in the bag. So another thing I learned the hard way. Sun glasses, very important to protect your eyes while kayaking from the sun glare off the water. And I always wear a pair that has a croaky. Because there are times when you want to take them off. And let's say a big wave came up, and you just got them all wet. And you're like, OK, that's not helping me. I got to take them off. And you want to be able to just drop them so that they still stay on you as opposed to, I want to take them off where I put them. Unless that hat works out with its little holes there. I'll have to get back to you on that. All right. Lots of water. I think that is a common mistake. That people don't realize how thirsty they will get. It is exercise. You are out in the weather. And even if the sun isn't out, just wind against your skin is causing evaporation. So you need to drink regularly. A snack, even if you think, oh, I'm not going to be out long. I don't need to bring food. It's always good to have a snack. If you come back from a hike, a bike ride, or a paddling trip with your snack not eaten, that's a good thing. It's never a good sign if you come back from a trip having eaten everything. Because you're like, oh, I probably could have brought more. And I was rationing myself at the end. A map. Somebody mentioned Green River Reservoir. We were chatting earlier about it. So there's a gorgeous map of Green River Reservoir. It's free. And it's really very accurate. We've paddled in a lot of places where the map is worthless. So this map of Green River is very good. And Green River is one of the very few places in Vermont where it's quiet water paddling. It's a very large body of water. And it only allows canoes, kayaks, no motorboats. It's fantastic. For its part of the recreation. Most shoreline of undeveloped in the state, too. Yes. Like an 18 mile. Yes. It's very irregular. It's fun to kind of explore. It's got this long finger at the way you go way up here, the northern end. The River Dam. To the River Dam. Yes. Really. And sometimes in high water, you can even go up a quarter of there. You go there soon. There are some places in Vermont that are great to go early in the year, like by that. I mean, early in the spring season, like right now, would be a great time assuming the ice is off. Is the ice off? Ponds? Yes. It's mostly. Place. So it's a very reservoir. How about North Montpelier Pond? People don't know. North Montpelier Pond is a fantastic place to paddle early in the season. Because you can go up these channels that just go and go and go. It's a little bit tricky. And sometimes you start up when you're like, oh, it's a dead end. Oh, that's a dead end. And there's some brush. There's some brush. But later on in the year, the water level drops. Things grow in. Forget it. You can't go up. But at this time of year, early spring, you can go really far up. And then you're going against the current. It's not that strong current. But when you turn around, it's like, woo! You know, you ride all the way back. Really good maps are waterproof. And this is probably my favorite paddling map. It's the Adirondack paddlers map. So we go to the Adirondacks every year for a week. And this map is so, let's hold it up, is so amazingly helpful. We go, we currently rent a place that is, where is our place? Simon. Yeah, it's over here. So we rent a place on Simon Pond. And the Adirondacks is just, it's such a paddler's playground, especially the St. Regis canoe area. Is that on the other side? Yep. No seagulls. So this area of the Adirondacks is St. Regis canoe wilderness, is what it's called. And you can just paddle from pond to pond. You go through channels. You can do, like I think they have a trip, the seven caries. You know, there's these little spits of land that you just walk your boat over and get in another pond. You don't even necessarily need to put those handles on them. Oh, right. It's such short, short little carries. And it's just, if you're looking for like Nirvana, paddling Nirvana, not too far away like the boundary waters in Minnesota, the St. Regis canoe wilderness is a wonderful place to go. And I don't know, driving time from here, you have to take the ferry, of course, or probably a little faster on the ferry. Three hours, three and a half hours, something like that. But I just love the Adirondacks. And anybody, if you're looking for recommendations of places to paddle in the Adirondacks, talk to us, because we'd be happy to make many recommendations of places. So the thing we like to do is this is an unusual size. But we like to, whatever size the map is, slip it into, fold it to where the appropriate place is, slip it in a gallon-sized baggie, seal it, and then slip another gallon-sized baggie going the other way and seal it. So if you've got a paper map, you can put it under your rigging, your decking. And you can read the map. And it's waterproof. And you can get all kinds of water from waves and rain and sliding down the paddle. And your map isn't going to fall apart on you in the middle of the trip. Which is why this is so good for my splash guard, because it has that zipper pocket that you just put it right in, and it's right there. And this is waterproof, but we still put it in a baggie. Because, you know, I don't want to bet how we are. It was a costly map, and I don't want to test its waterproofness. All right, other things. Let's see, additional items. OK, map, rain jacket, or just wind jacket. And I particularly like to wear one that's waterproof, because if you paddle in Vermont with any frequency, you're probably going to get wet. And a nice feature to outdoor gear is the pit zip, where you can open up the area under your armpits and get cool down, get air, without getting rain. And better quality outdoor jackets almost always have that feature of a pit zip, which is really a nice thing to have. I like to bring a bandana, because I don't like that French foreign legion thing on the hat anymore, so I usually bring a bandana for my neck, because it tends to burn, even if I have sunscreen on it. And then the other thing about additional items is layers. It might get cooler, so maybe you want to have another layer in your hatch, or just have that flexibility of being able to take something off, put something on, because weather conditions change. And have them in the car, too, right? You know, we have some extra stuff in the car. On these other things, these other items, we went over everything but this one little, oh, bring the toilet paper, bring it in a bag. Take the used stuff home with you. In another bag, which is inside this bag, so that your used toilet paper doesn't come in contact with your clean toilet paper. And it doesn't get left behind for somebody else to have to get grossed out by. Very important to practice leave no trace, which is the principle of leave only footprints, take only photographs. So even though you think, oh, isn't that a pretty rock? Don't those berries look good? I mean, ultimately leave no trace is about really leaving the environment the way you find it and try to make minimal impact. And really seriously leave no trace people. You know, pack out poop. I mean, I've seen a demonstration of how to poop and pack it out with you. So ideally, you're not crossing that bridge. But invariably, if you drink enough water, you have to pee. And then you just, you know, take your toilet paper with you. All right. Optional, you want to talk about that? You should also mention something for sunscreen, though. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she does, too. Nice, huh, yeah? When I held up this earlier, I would like to mention that little carabiners are very helpful, these little jobbies that you can use to attach things to things. And so this is a dermatone for the lips. I have it on the outside of the dry bag. But the PFD pocket is great for a little, you know, because lips, thank you. That's a good point. Lips sunburn very easily. You want to talk about, you know, it's me here. Do you want to talk about a nice option or do you want me to do that? Oh, well, I'll tell you about this one thing. I went to like a, I don't know, yard sale or something and got these very, very fun. Binoculars for like a quarter. And I have regular binoculars, but these are like so much better because they're nothing fancy. You don't have to worry about like, you know, oh my God, I've got to take the covers off. I've got to, you know what I mean? This is the case. This is the alternative. Right, you know, by the time she gets this out and all the covers out, you know, that bird is in Milwaukee, you know what I mean? But me, I'm like, okay, and there it is. Right, these are heavy, not a good choice for kayaking. Cheap little binos are the best for kayaking, in my opinion. Or they have the kind where you can sort of wear a sort of a harnessy thing and your binocs stay right here. So, you know, they're at the ready when you see the critter. That's right. That is, those are really, that's a good thing to have. Yeah, all right. Bringing extra shoes and socks and dry clothes in the car, you know, is always a smart idea, I don't know. Even if it's not about capsizing, but if you go paddling, you're coming back with wet feet. And it's always nice to be able to, we bring towels, have towels in, sometimes in the dry bag, but always in the car, so you can dry your feet off and maybe put on alternative footwear, nice dry footwear when you get back, which is really nice. Bugs, bugs get bad. And I remember one time, I remember we were in Grotton. Oh my God. And she had to get in the car because only one of us had gloves for tying the straps on the, for the boats. And that was me. Because the black flies were so bad. They were like so bad and only one person could be out and so be mindful of flood protection. Yeah, and the nice thing about paddling and black flies season is that they don't bother you once you're on the water. It's getting, getting in and getting out that you're vulnerable. They don't seem to fly out onto the pond. They're like right around. One of my favorite things in the world to have in the boat is a sponge. Yeah, it's on the floor. There you are. I was looking for it. The green one. It's a, not that you don't know what a sponge looks like, but we do like to bring show and tell to show and tell, you know? So this is like the easiest thing in the world, you know? And you get that little bit of water and you're like, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. That's all it takes. It's just, you know, so have a sponge in there. Also, if you happen to, as we sometimes do, paddle is sort of, you know, we do a lot of exploring and we don't know until we get there that, gosh, if we'd known it was gonna be like this, we wouldn't have come. Like the Rock River in, where is that, near St. Albans? Yes, in Albans. So that's a tough area to begin with because there's a lot of blue-green algae and a lot of phosphorus that comes into, well, we knew that was true of St. Albans Bay and Miss Escoy Bay. We thought, oh, but what about this Rock River? So we got there and we were kind of like, we'd already gotten that far and there were four of us. So we thought, well, let's go, but it was kind of putting into a muddy Mississippi. And we paddled and we finished and when we got out, we really was good to have sponges to clean the boats outside before we wanted to lift them on the car. Yeah, they misnamed that one. Yeah, they did. So do you guys travel with a sponge instead of, I don't know what they're called. Oh, the Bilge Pump. Yeah. We do not use a Bilge Pump. Don't get that much water in the boats. And you don't have a drain on your body there and you hear you talk about that. So we do the, hold it upside down. One person goes low and the other person goes to switch, like a teeter-totter, until all the water's out. Yeah. That's our... We have kids and that's a whole different whole. That's to be honest with you. I mean, just because they love to play in them and fill them in water and then it's clean, but you can see this one being good for draining out those last pieces. Yeah, definitely. And that's what kids are good at too. Yeah, right? Some boats have a cup holder. That's a nice feature. Some boats have and Anne's has it. The coolest thing. Everyone loves this. It's got, it's a little paddle holder. So there's like two little, there's a elastic strap that goes along the side of my boat. And then there's a little hook up here so that I can put my paddle right next to my boat and run the little strap around it. And so, you know, sometimes when you're getting in and you're getting out and you're dealing with, you know, your stuff and your items and you don't want to drop your paddle. And, you know, this just holds the paddle while you're dealing with everything else. It's a really nice feature. My boat doesn't have it. I wish it did. You know, I should probably talk about getting it. Okay, just want to say a couple more things about, some people have wheels for portaging. You've probably seen those where they put one end of the boat on the wheels and they pull the other end. And if you're portaging quite a distance, it's really nice and they collapse and they go in your car. We've borrowed them, but never purchased our own. Mostly we just, each of us carries the boat. I think that's for like people that are camping in their boats and going for like days and have like tons of stuff and, you know, they- It's good to be a couple too even if there's two of you and they're not the right, they're not the same size. Because when you're carrying two boats and one's short and one's long, it's funky. Yeah, it is. And that's all of your things. And most of you take the opportunity to say thank you and we'll need to go, but we've had a really great time. I wish you could say it to the rest. Okay. Good job. Don't forget to fill out your eval. No, I didn't. I'll put it all over here. Okay, great. So, let's see, just other things. Camera, we didn't specifically mention it, but that's a nice thing to consider bringing. Cell phone, some people want those. An extra paddle, if you're really prepared, an extra paddle, because sometimes that's mostly for whitewater is, you know, you can lose a paddle going down a river. There's something called a paddle leash, L-E-A-S-H, which is different from a paddle holder. It's more like an old fashioned kind of telephone cord. You see people with them and they're just paddling along, but it's like a little cord that's attached in there. So, insect repellent, we didn't mention, but you should, some people like that. And our mantra is, comfort reigns supreme. So, if your boat, your carry handles, your paddle, your PFD, your sandals are not comfortable, you will not use them. And what's the point of having all the stuff, buying it if you're not gonna use it? You wanna be comfortable. So, I wanna talk about getting in and out of the boat, because that seems to be like a challenge for a lot of people. And I had a vision last summer. And what it was, was thinking about getting, like out of a chair, compared to standing up when you're sitting on the ground. Now you notice that it's not that hard to get out of a chair. But it's kind of challenging sometimes, especially if you're in some little small boat, to get all the way up to a standing position from basically sitting on the ground. So, my idea was, well, we've been doing this a while, and that is to float your boat a little bit, go out into the water a little bit, and then hold on to the combing, and climb in, and lower your bottom down. And the same thing, when you're coming back in, when you're getting done, is instead of going up to the shore, crashing into the gravel or whatever, and then trying to pull yourself up. And I mean, a lot of people have trouble with this, and it's the reason that a lot of people stop kayaking. And it's too bad, because there's other ways of doing things. So, part of that is to think about not bringing your boat all the way in, but bring it out still like a foot, or a foot and a half in the water, and then you can step into the water, and you are basically going from sitting on a chair rather than sitting on the ground. The other thing that makes paddling so much more pleasant, is working on your physical fitness level before you go, you know? Like, strong living bone builder classes, and just general fitness, so that you'll have more fun that way, you know? But the whole thing about getting in and out, there's, that seems to be a big challenge. The Achilles heel of most kayakers. We've seen more people cap size, they have an entirely dry trip, then they cap size as they're getting out, and they're soaking wet, or they cap size before they start. And, you know, a lot of people feel like they can't do it by themselves, and it's fine to help each other out. I think helping each other is like the ideal thing in this world. But, you know, to be able to do things a little bit more independently, and, you know, smoothly without falling down is good. It's damn good, you know? Yeah. A couple. I'm wondering if there's anything on the market that can help a body elevate. Oh, like a little, uh, uh, uh. No, yeah. Uh-uh. You're right. I know it's terrifying. Sure, yeah. No, I don't know, I mean, I've thought about that. Well, it's crying out to be developed. Yeah. There's a market for it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you mean like those chairs that people can buy in their home that the seat pushes you up? Yeah. For a kayak, you mean? Yeah, for a kayak. It's like he said, it's a tire jack. Sure. Yeah, a little jack. Well, now that the baby boomers are at the point in life where we are, your aunt's right, it's crying out for an adventure. Dennis, I'm waiting for you to bring it to the world. Dennis, bring it to market. There, we guarantee, we know people in Vermont will be your customers. So a couple of additional tips. Some of these fall into the category of safety. So go with a friend and tell someone else, so the two of you are going, tell someone else your destination and your expected return time. Watch the forecast. So we're very big fans of paddling in the rain. It's really fun, especially if you've got your rain jacket and your rain hat and your spray guard or spray skirt and you're just like, you're going along, you're one with nature, it's not a problem. It is outstanding. Nobody else is out there. It really is lovely. We had a sighting of 13 looms on Peach and Pawn because it was drizzling and they were out having a time and we were the only ones on the water. Yeah, other people don't tend to paddle in the rain and it's really good for seeing wildlife, we find. But we don't like to paddle in the lightning. You know, it's huge. It's a big, scary, hairy deal. And if there is any lightning around, get out of the water. Get out, get out, get out. As fast as you can. I've never seen Anne. It was like, boom. I was terrified, I was like, no, I've never seen you paddle so quickly. Fear will do us. Another tip, put weight in the stern of the boat rather than the bow, the aft, right, the back. And because the bow should be, the boat should be level or the bow should be elevated a little bit. You don't wanna put weight in the bow and you're gonna, you know, that's impeding your progress. And another thing we've learned because, you know, trial, sort of experiencing it etiquette, avoid fishermen. We've sometimes, somebody's standing on shore or in their boat and they've got a line in the water and you don't realize the line, you don't see it and you kind of go between them and their bobber and not, you don't get popular that way. And some fishermen I think are a little bit too territorial. It's like they're out there, they claim the whole pond. You know, that's a bit excessive. But by and large, try to give a fisherman a wide berth. We don't wanna be chatty, chatty, super loud, you know, because they wanna, they want it quiet if they're trying to fish. So just be considerate of fishermen and they'll appreciate it. So recommended paddling locations where we have had particularly a wonderful experiences. Sometimes it's a bit of a drive but we usually find it's worth it. Pollen pond, as in Pollen the country, is up near the Canadian border. I think it's in Morgan. It's like one minute into Canada. Well, it's in Vermont. Yes, but it's close. Yeah, it's very close to the border. Lovely, lovely pond. It has a rock necklace around it. So there's countless places where you just go, oh wow, what an awesome place to stop. Like big, flat rocks where you can easily get out of your boat and have a picnic or sun yourself or swim from that spot. Very little development. A few cabins but not much, very nice. Little Avril, also up there, you know, it's a drive. Not to be confused with Big Avril which is its next door neighbor. Little Avril has minimal development. It has a white or white sand beach. It on a stretch that is owned by the Nature Conservancy. So it's perfectly fine to pull over there and swim from that beach and have a picnic and it's just stunning. And you are in your boat and you look up at Brusso Mountain. And I recommend a combo platter where you paddle at Little Avril and then go to Brusso Mountain. It's a short drive away and it's a 30 minute hike to the top. I mean, not long at all. And then you can look down on where you just paddled. And I'm told in the fall it's like, or were we there when we saw them? I think I was told that it's a hawk migration area. So you can go in the fall and watch the hawks soaring by. Very cool. Brusso, B-R-O-U-S-S-E-A-U. Brusso. Peach and Pond is closer to home, about 45 minutes from here. A lovely place, lots of loons, irregular shorelines. So lots to explore. Caspian Lake in Greensboro. Very nice place to paddle. Norton. Norton Pond, especially if so. Norton has one letter L, right? It's like a letter L and the long side goes parallel to the road and it's not very interesting, but the other part of the L goes away from the road and is a very regular shoreline and interesting wildlife sightings in there. Dead Creek is over by Addison County. Fantastic place for wildlife and feeling this remoteness. It is, however, a wind tunnel. Every single time we've gone there, the winds comes forcefully from the south or from the north because we tried going back up and it's like whoosh. And so if you go there and it is about a 90-minute drive to get there, right? Just be prepared that you might have a lot of wind. The Moscow end of Waterbury Reservoir. We'll have to close the window and get caught. As opposed to, you can put in at Blush Hill, you can put in at Little River State Park and you can put in at the Moscow end, which is the five mile per hour or lower that's like the limit, which is nice for quiet water paddling. We also like to do bike-boat-combo trips. If you're also a bicyclist, when we did the last eight miles of the Winooski River, we went first to Lake Champlain and left our bicycles. Then we drove back, put the boats in by that last dam on the Winooski and which was it in the town of Winooski, I think? I think so, yeah. And then we paddled the eight miles and then biked back primarily on the bike path and a little bit on quiet roads. So that was great, that was a nice trip. The Lamoille Valley Rail Trail also offers that possibility because the Lamoille River runs next to the Lamoille Valley Rail Trail. So much of the time you're biking along looking at the river, I haven't done it yet, but I've often thought that stretch from Johnson to Jefferson, Jeffersonville, is a 10-mile stretch and maybe someday we'll do that. We'll paddle it and bike it. Research. The Barton River and the Black River in Newport also offer the possibility of bike paddle combos and you end up in the South Bay of Lake Memphormegog which is kind of cool place. And we have a collection of books we can recommend. These two are ones that I find particularly, they're the Quiet Waters books for Vermont and New Hampshire. This is, so they're different editions. One is newer than the other but they have different bodies of water in them. You have to be careful though to read between the lines because sometimes they'll say a turn of phrase and you're like, okay, so that means it's bad in the full of algae. Like you'll say, oh, best paddle in the early spring. You're like, okay, that means it's full of algae. If you go any time later than the end of May. So they're different little ways to like, you figure out how to read it. Sometimes the directions are a little off. Yeah, we've made lots in there about, you know, things that we've seen there or what changes we would make and the directions. There's also the Appalachian Mountain Club puts out river guides. So this is the river guide for New Hampshire and Vermont. This is the one from Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Most of the time we're pond paddling, not river paddling because rivers are difficult. The water level varies a lot. Sometimes you have enough to paddle. Other times you're going to be scraping bottom. Sometimes depending on the varying water level you're going to have rapids or not. That's not going to happen on a pond. Also, if you're a Connecticut river paddler you want to go on a wide body of water in a straight line, this is your place, Connecticut river. And there are lots of places on the Connecticut where you can camp and you can do like, okay, we're going to, you know, again, that would work with a bike, point A to point B, bike back to the car. And this is a more recent one, Nature Conservancy. Have you seen them stretch on the Connecticut with the bikes? With the bikes? Yeah. We did the very top, the very beginning of the Connecticut river in Vermont, down 10 miles or so. There's a little white water based in. There's a lot of Connecticut pretty much like a lake. Yeah, it's pretty state. We prefer skinnier bodies of water. Skinnier rivers, more irregular, places to like poke around in. Like what's around the corner, that kind of thing. The Clyde River, I remember that was really interesting, nature-wise. You know, I almost wanted to see wildlife. Clyde Mountain Park in the Black. As far as the current of the river though. No, that wasn't, yeah, it's not remarkable at all. You could go upstream or downstream. It's not like, whoa, I'm really... Except the very, very north part that time. Remember, there was a little bit of... Yeah, you wouldn't, different. And it was shallower up. So just a brief little thing about the Connecticut. So last summer, we rented Rudyard Kipling's house. So Rudyard Kipling, the author of Jungle Book and Captain's Courageous, lived in Vermont for four years and wrote those books while he lived in Vermont. And his house is now preserved by the Landmark Trust and you can rent it. And that's how they make their money. So I thought, what a hoot. Let's get a group of people and rent Rudyard Kipling's house. And, you know, it'll be so like weird. And so we got eight people and we rented for the minimum amount of nights, which was three nights, and divvied the costs, which made it very affordable. And we thought, okay, we're gonna kayak and we're gonna bike and we're gonna hike and do all the stuff. So we thought, well, where can we kayak? Connecticut River, because it's in Dumberston. That's the Connecticut River, it's right there. And so we thought, and we'll bike back. We'll do one of those combo platters. So we put in at Brattleboro and we bike down to Vernon, paddle down to Vernon and then we bike back. But as, of course, you're paddling down to Vernon, what's there but the nuclear power plant. And so there's, you start into, and that's, thank God, what told us we're getting near the end because we're all like ready at that point. And you see this big, I'd never seen it before. This big cube is right on the water. I'm like, oh my God, that must be the reactor. And buoy things are going to say, don't keep out, keep out, do not, do not come over here. So of course, one of our friends has to ignore it and go over there and then you hear it like within seconds of her entry. This big booming voice, you are in restricted waters. Get out, get out. I mean, it's kind of like, I think it had already been shut down. But clearly they've got people paid to watch the Connecticut River and lest you come inside one of these buoys. It also was not the tidiest river, you know? I mean, we could still be there cleaning it. The takeout was particularly with organic debris like branches and stuff and other plastics and things that just was one of the less pleasant places we paddled. So we mentioned the St. Regis canoe, oh, other places in the Adirondacks, the Weller Pond, Cranberry Lake, Great Paddling, New Hampshire, Grafton Pond, fabulous place. Have you been there? Yeah, yeah, I loved it. Go to any of these places, try to go during the week because they're all more. Where did she say New Hampshire, I'm sorry? Grafton, like the cheese, G-R-A-F-T-O-N, Grafton Pond, Weller Pond is in the Adirondacks, not far from Tupper Lake. We learned about Grafton from this book. So that's, you know. Well, I think I first learned about it from, Oh, did you hear about it so much? When I was remounting the club. Yeah, okay. Also East Inlet of the First Connecticut Lake, which is in New Hampshire. Oh my goodness, that is like above the Connecticut Lakes. It's like 10 minutes into Canada. It is amazing up there, where we saw the biggest moose with the big rack come out of the water with all the grasses and stuff. Oh, stunning. And just one, I have many recommendations for Massachusetts, but one that's outstanding is on Cape Cod, the Bass River in Dennis Port. Fantastic. Oh, that was fun. You can paddle to the ocean and it was just lovely paddling. And one recommendation in Maine, we have many, many, but just because of time constraints, the back river in Booth Bay. Oh, that was so much fun. Is brackish and lots of great places to paddle on the back river. And then you can use it for a road and just get in your boat and go on exploring. Oh, and also Cape Corpus. I really love Cape Corpus. So, you know, we need to make sure there's time. Yes, yes, yes. So we'll stop. We have other things to talk about that were related to technique, but those can, we can put that aside and take questions from anyone. Who was Cape Corpus, Maine? Yeah, near Kenny Bunkport. Kenny Bunkport. Near the bush compound. Anybody questions? Yeah. So I came to the class because I went to Kayak once, with my friends, and I loved it just being on this nice quiet lake and floating around. So I had no idea what to get so my friend said, oh, they're having someone sail at Walmart. Yeah, sure. So I'm like, what do I get? That's why I came. Now, this is intriguing. This looks like fun. But if I don't want to do anything big and I don't want to fall out, I don't want to get too long, I need to be able to carry it, put it on myself, what would you recommend? Where to go? Okay, so we mentioned earlier, and this is a really, really good thing to do if you can do it, if you can pull it off. And we tried doing it one time, which was to say to as many people as possible, let's all meet at Riceville and everybody bring their kayaks and so everyone's trying each other's. And I really wish that that had... We did it. Yeah, but there weren't that many. I wanted a lot. Well, we could do it again. Yeah, because that's a really great way to say, okay, I feel really comfortable in this boat. This one's not for me. You know what I mean? That type of experience. So, right, try your friends, go to the demo days, but definitely, unfortunately, the plastic boat, if you're kind of new to kayaking, is a good choice, but they are heavy. And it can be hard. Some people work that out by flipping the seats down and shoving it in the hatch and letting it extend into the front seat, you know, kind of thing. Other people have a pickup truck and it's easiest to slide in a pickup truck and flip the hatch up. If you have to get it on a roof, again, that rug thing, you know, lift one end up to the rug, go to the back, push it up. That works well. Another option is to go to like Groton, to the Groton State Park, Boulder Beach, because they've got a ton of kayaks there that you can rent them just so you can like experience that for the day. You get a better sense of like, okay, this is a good boat for me. This one isn't, and you can actually experience it rather than just. Or Elmore, Elmore or Waterbury, Little River State Park has boat, a lot of places have. They do, but I found that Groton had more variety. Yeah, Dan. Probably maybe 10, 15 years ago, I don't know my first kayak. I didn't know anything about it. I just went down to EMS, down to 11, and I'm here with this 14 foot kayak plastic boat, which is very heavy, you know. And I said, it's discovered, not long after that, I wanted to smell a boat. But it also depends how much you're gonna do. Whether you're just gonna do a trip for an hour, just going out for an hour or whatever. I mean, you're covering the Goats back room, which is nice, you know. Yeah, if you're going out for an hour, you don't need a 14 foot boat. Right, or you know, you don't like a boat. And if you go out on a lake, where the winds are not gonna be heavy, so you don't need a really heavy boat. Stay with the boat. Yeah. It is, it is so dependent upon who you are and what you want, what's your goal. Nancy, what are you, I mean, I know there's human limitations to the inflatable ones, but just if you wanna, like, is it worth the money to just get one and try it out if you just wanna be on the lake and be, you know, not adventurous, but just like to be in the water. Is it, are they hard to paddle because they're so light? Well, we've only paddled inflatables once. We were, remember that time in Costa Rica? Yes. And, you know, we were tourists and these guys were, you know, brought in a whole bunch of them and blew them up. And all we tourists got in and we were going down this river in Costa Rica. That was my only experience. I thought it worked fine. You know, I didn't have any, I didn't have any negative. They don't blow all over the place because they're so light. Isn't that a double? Isn't that a tandem? Were we both in a tandem or two of us? That may be, that may be. What I mostly remember from that was unbelievable. They, these guys were in a river kayaks which are short and really turn on the dime. Like it's hard if you're not an experienced river kayaker to paddle a river kayak in a straight line because they're so, it's like, it does a 360, whether you breathe and it, oh. So anyway, these guys were, these guys were all on river kayaks. They were masterful and I've never, I've seen lots of people do an Eskimo roll. They did it this way. Yeah, not this way. They did like somersaults in the boats. I know. And they come right up. They're like, well, they were like, you know, killing time, waiting for us to have our snack or whatever. They're out there playing in this river. And I don't even know if they did it backwards, but they definitely did it forwards. And we were all like, whoa, I've never seen that before. They were really strong. And they served, they carried these watermelons which they served us. They, you know, sliced them up really expertly. And I remember afterwards, you know how we skip rocks? They skipped the watermelon rides. That's, I was like, whoa. I mean, I don't, that's not very lead no trace, right? It would be some trace. What are those? I don't know. But that was crazy. He was like, whoa. Okay, other questions. Other questions. Where would be a good place for the water to look for relatively inexpensive entry-level kayak? You know, I got mine. What happened for me was I had this other boat. And, you know, I'm paddling along going, it was kind of wet where I'm sitting, you know? And I had a little spray skirt thing. And I looked down there, full of water. So, you know, my boat leaked. So, and it was time for it to go by by. So we were staying at this place in the Adirondacks and they had these old town looms. And I was like, you know, try this. Cause you could, you know, that's what they were there for. And I was like, I really like this boat. It was only like 300 bucks or something like that. It wasn't like a big expense, but I'm finding it's like my favorite boat so far. You know, because it fits me well. I can store stuff easily. I, you know, it goes right tracks really nicely. And just, there's like a lot of reasons. But in times of store, in terms of stores, ski rack in Burlington, I think has kayaks. Well, this was a little sporting goods place up in Morseville that I finally tracked it down. But they have quite a number of boats there too. And Dick's Sporting Goods, Umiac or Umiac, depending on. When I went on their site, they didn't list everything, they were very expensive. You can get cheaper ones at Dick's. Laterally. Yeah. Yeah. And one more too. And there's also used, like you can go on computer and find it like used in New Hampshire. Yeah. I'll tell you what they have. Like Craigslist or something. Yes. Yes. Or, and you could put something on, seeking kayak, you know, see. I'm relatively new in the area. And I was driving into Barry down, I don't know, what is it, 62 or something? And I know it's a big, huge building on the left and a sign called Kayak and so on. Oh, that would have been Tigersons, right? No, he's right. Now the Archery, Armenial Archery. Right across from Tigersons. Oh, okay. So is that a retail thing? But if you're new, do you live in Montpelier? Yes. So do you know about Front Porch Forum? Yes. Fantastic. I would put a post on Front Porch Forum that what you were seeking. People constantly put on that they're selling. You know, so maybe you could say, this is what I'm looking for and maybe somebody has one they're willing to sell you. And what's the length of your boat? Oh, this is the coolest thing. We have a shed that's 10 by 10. And I thought, okay, I can't get a boat that's longer than 10 feet. But then I forgot about the high-cost. Yes. So then I could get a boat. So now we, I think mine's 11 feet, one inch or something. So the way that we store them is I created slings that hang from the ceiling of the shed. And so one, it goes at this angle and the other goes at this angle. Yep, yep. One feet. Gotta love, John. So we didn't have to cut a hole in the side of the shed. So that length at 10 foot would be a good length. Yeah, like say mine's 11, one and yeah. It's called, it's, there's a, so there's this really short kayaks are like sort of a sport kayak. Then there's like a recreational class which is slightly longer, like in the neighborhood of a 12 footer. And that kind of combines the nice features of the sea kayaks, which are the 14, the 17 foot. It combines that, it gets the tracking, but yet it's an easy turning radius like a sport kayak. So that recreational class, I think is probably the best for most people. We are, we are about out of time. We appreciate your patience. We are happy to take additional questions if you wanna come up and talk to us one-on-one. But for those who after two hours are saturated and wanna get the hell out of here, we wanna end on time. And when we do wanna encourage folks to fill out the evaluation. Oh yes, which you can just leave on the table. No, you don't have to say nice things about us. I know, we get the big bucks for doing this. Oh yeah, yeah. So there's a box of pens if you don't have a pen. And we hope to see you out on the water. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much.