 It's okay because the live stream only the the re-upload will even hear that I don't even think they caught the part about coom so it's fine oh man that was the best comment for 30 seconds that was a pretty good part the coom part yeah all right fine I don't disagree with that you shouldn't because it would be wrong right you remember we like totally played through the whole that alien game that was weird huh like what what are you talking about in terms of like we just played through all of it we completed an entire game in like nine hours but in three streams we're struggling to get through a TV show discussion that wasn't exactly where I was going with it I was just like marveling at the fact that we went through that whole game we didn't really even like it what I what I'm curious about is what brought this to the forefront of your mind at this at this time I was moving things around I saw it I don't know why it's in the recommended for me right now but yeah I was like man yeah we did that yeah that was it that's right we didn't do that that is something we done did do we did do done did it and it wasn't yeah it really wasn't uh yeah it was like a roller coaster that never got very high no it was there was certain little points we were like hey this you know hey that's just for me I'm kind of having fun sort of enjoying myself a little bit and then androids would show up and you're like what why why why are you here why are you here and we never found out why they were here I just don't it's it feels like an obligatory thing with aliens games now I guess is that you just have to fight androids gotta throw in them you just have to in this aliens game you really have to fight androids we can't just I mean we as the developers who you can do whatever we want we we can't just not have androids that's can't do that now there's people in chat now so we can we can pretend as though we can we can address them instead of just the ether or each other hello chat welcome to the EFAP 174 we're gonna try and be fast with this because we're actually a little bit stressed for time and I mean that in this in this in the EFAP sense where it's like we've only got a hundred hours damn as people of or many have pointed out right there are people missing now we did a drinker as you may remember popped in in part one this isn't quite the format for drinker I even we did a talk about arcane the few days after he came on just going over quickly what his favorite sort of parts are and stuff I come to which catch up it is but if you want to hear that it's in there somewhere it's the beginning of one of the catch ups he's done for open bar now so we lost him and you're like whoa where's Fringie brings assuming Fringie thinks that the show starts in 40 minutes from now and it's fair that he does because he was asleep when messages were sent about that would not be in the case you'll see him in 40 minutes or less or more I guess it could be anything where's Jay well Jay doesn't look at discord messages but claims that he does wonderful existence literally we were like right everyone's about ready to go that it's like Jay has gone live on twitch it's like wait what so Jay knows that we're streaming Jay will be here after completing a reaction to someone's video about him and her son it's all right because to be honest with you if there was one part to miss of our discussion out of these four episodes it will probably be episode six I think maybe the first half episode six at least it's probably the lowest stakes part of the four episodes but it's not saying it's not good it's like all right then well where's dooma well unfortunately dooma isn't felt too comfortable coming back on for our cane he's said he's more than happy to come on for a different topic sometime but as many in chat will know he's gotten into many many arguments post stream and there are many many comments that are very not friendly regarding him I wouldn't want to say it's like explicitly a negative response like well I guess you can say negative but like in the sense that there's a lot of comments that are quite constructive in terms of like I think this was the problem with the augmentation blah blah blah but you get a lot of comments that are also just like fucking get rid of him and the sort of thing which was unfortunate we were hoping he'd come back I left it up to him and he said he would rather not this time around because he feels like it would be like like people would overall that the situation would be made worse because a lot of people are very unhappy with him I can already see a lot of people are upset about that and I'm glad I am I yeah yeah I wanted to back yeah I wanted to hear the conversation because there were a lot of people that would go on about how everything's a travesty in the writing and everything like that and it was nice to have a dissenting opinion here and there and it was an interesting conversation it really was I liked episode two of this a lot because of it and yeah we got all you know groanie and grunty about like when repetition started to set in and a lot of things were repeated but that was really all that was annoying about that the conversation was great I loved it so doomer if you're listening if you want to come in we won't say no well and he has the ability to join whenever he wants if he wants yeah right there rashes go neon because you know yeah he had plenty of like barely anyone's referencing any of the good stuff he said or the insightful things he said it was barely just the stupid things it's all right the entirety of the first stream you know yeah um and I you know part of the regret is that I know that there was lots of things you wanted to talk about and so I'm just like you uh I know that the doors open doomer assuming you are listening the door is wide open and with that we really like I hate to rush us but we really do just have to get into it um because yes because oh I guess why do we have to rush time because one because time so there uh yeah um where get yeah carry on yeah we what is our limit is five hours six hours I have to leave in about five and a half hours all right and I think with this one because we really don't want to be like all right as soon as rags leaves we'll just set it to the next e-fap we will probably carry on till the end carry on yes um yeah yeah this will be the last arcane e-fap all right yeah see someone already said not again it's like I know okay three yeah yeah all right so let us begin episode six which opens up on a flashback of a young victor which is possibly my favorite of all of the kids flashbacks it is my favorite flashback as well we get to go to a new place which again one of the things I really like about this show is that you don't get set fatigue you are always going to new places you're exploring new colors it's vibrant and you feel like every every episode sort of takes you to a new place you're always seeing a little bit more of the world there's also not a useless flashback that doesn't do anything it's jam packed and yeah I was just gonna say that happened before the shot opens on some of the most grimy like gross water because the idea is that this is the the water for the lanes or at least the what's it's the under city slash this so many names for this the trenches the lanes the under city it goes by many names and um what it looks like me what a clever fucking visual to have it be that we're seeing the reflection of a child jumping into the water to play in it and it's like this disgusting grimy shit and it's like yeah this is what they grow up in and as you just mentioned silco uh referred to this as we get the city's runoff that's how it works um yeah we follow the all these kids are playing and we follow the water down into uh where victor is playing um noticeably away from the other kids with a little thing that he's put together a little boat he's just off doing his own thing yep and you even have a kid like curious for a second to look at him and be like um wonder who that kid is is it is it implied that that one is sky i think i was about to ask what i'm not 100% sure i don't know i thought that too but i'm not sure is sky a league of legends character no sky is the gill gets um the assistant oh okay i just i didn't remember her name yeah i'm terrible with names jim i don't think you i don't think you are terrible with it nobody's really remembered her name she's we'll talk about that when we get to it um yeah so yeah victor uh this this scene it's just it's funny what i was watching i was like i know what you're telling me and i love it it's like he sets his little boat starts trickling along and he's he's looking at it and he's smiling he's real happy and then it's just going a little too fast and he can't quite keep up with it until he starts really trying and then he falls over in his attempts to keep up with his let's say creation this it's just perfect because i know exactly where we're going with victor just the idea of like his mortal body is restricting him from being able to pursue his mechanical and genius like yeah because the boat just keeps chugging along like out of care in the world doesn't have any defects it doesn't have a hook and leg or anything yep and so yeah he he falls the boat goes off down the stream he follows it until he gets to a little cave and there's a really weird creature in there which um garland uh i've actually got nothing for the for the creature is there anything about that that you can draw from the game or is it because he calls it rio right i've got nothing obviously the only thing i can even think of would be like rex eye but i assume it has nothing to do with no uh rex eye is a well it's a zsi which is a void creature and that's down over in shurima oh yeah that's a void creature right um yeah uh rio and this guy who correct me if i'm wrong have we not seen him since he blew up in episode three i believe so i don't think we've seen him we do we haven't seen him since he blew up he's been referenced but we haven't seen him and yeah so the idea here being that if you're super attentive and recognize everything you'd be like oh he's um hmm okay this is because he i thought he was just guy in background who made shimmer but now it's like guy who he's up to some other stuff and he says um i think he just says did you build this and then um they end up just he's he's very curious man um and it's just the fact that we're getting dialogue at all is just like oh shit okay this is more for him than we expected and he says um why aren't you playing with the other kids does victor say anything to that i can't remember no he just kind of gives him this look yeah like uh i don't know i don't get along why don't you play with the other kids and then i think he just uh comes out of it just like how could you're not playing with the other kids yeah weirdo yeah then he says loneliness is often the byproduct of a gifted mind which it's just one of those it's i like to almost say it's standard it's just like you don't get this and like fucking book a boba fat yes i'm still referencing it we're not done referencing it i don't know whenever we're talking about it i love it it never gets fair to boba fat no had been did look at no we're not so different you and i that was incredible hold on did they actually use that line it wasn't exact it was very close he basically is like we're the same thing we're not so different you and i which by the way a very very slight tangent i know we're happy we're short in time but i my dad and i we went to the theater proper and we saw moonfall and it's the roland emmerich disaster silly movie and it was horrifically wonderful rags there's one and they have a line that almost says that to the context of that roland emmerich has said fuck marvel movies like they're all the same like he's he's just a why is it that all these directors do this right after the movies mauler i want you and definitely fringy but and of course whoever wants to join that movie is the perk it is the roland emmerich movie like he's trying to find his the perfect version of his own movie and this is his apex film because it has everything that roland emmerich it hits all of the check marks we've got uh plans to do a roland emmerich arc because the thing is i'm pretty sure i'm again is like unironically really fun it's like done i would say this movie's this movie's a good e-fap watch too he's honestly his movies are like entertaining they're just not oh absolutely i was i loved watching it in the theater my dad and i knew going in it would be terrible and stupid and that's why we went we did not exist we don't expect high art from roland emmerich i know crazy as that sounds everyone's gonna be like what i know i know he is like a 14 year old who's making movies kind of like zack snider but a little like but different but the same how that makes sense yeah i can follow that he's not as edgy as ack i think no no no oh that's been out for like a two weeks i've completely missed that you know and roland's like your favorite creator you missed moonfall yeah how could you well i guess i know what i'll do for metal's fortune next week because that sounds fun yeah it's it's a it's a movie it is a film there is a nice shot here that someone even in chat was pointing it out that they frame singed so that he clearly acknowledges the um the disability that victor has it's like um coming out of the shadow you're just realizing it which um he's gonna play into more and more things as we go on it's just like stuff that they definitely want you to know is happening but don't care if you miss it which is the kind of shit that i love utilizing the fact they're in a visual medium you really like to see it yeah visual storytelling how about that you tell me what happens now one of your legs is oh i see you you're fucking crap holy shit you're crap you're my god get away from me be gone unclean and like it's gonna be quick it happens all in this episode but the what rio is and what victor sees is like a microcosm of what victor's life's gonna be i'm pretty sure um yeah like rio is this cute awesome natural little thing that's running around being happy and victor feeds it and it's like oh this is great um and then i think singe's commentary on just that interaction is the mutation must survive he's dying i'm attempting to prevent that the mutation must survive it's like i just that language is very important though the uh yeah it must it comes across as somewhat innocuous i think like in the context of i'm attempting to prevent that and it's you know it's dying yeah it you know comes across maybe more uh i guess more of a sympathetic thing that singed is doing than than the mutation must survive might let on and we will get the part two to this scene a little later yeah and then we get one of my favorite scenes in the whole show uh victor is no oh not this time up the scenes right here victor is sitting uh at the place i think we've seen him a couple times kind of like where they end up going just to think um and heimerdinger walks up and he says uh seems just yesterday i stumbled upon an aspiring young scholar from the undercity here ruminating it is steel oasis which i i really like that isn't it's just a thought of steel oasis um like a thieves den uh what is a thieves den exactly oh it's where all the thieves hang out oh that's neat in a den yeah that's their steel oasis fuck it it's fine but uh the the sort of like like why would that be prompted as a as a because it's kind of like just just this is how i met you that it's like a bit of a gap and then i heard your prognosis it's like oh he's talking about it because this guy is dead basically um and he says do you contemplate death and he says only that of friends it's just because heimerdinger's oldest fucking apparently yordles live for a very long time it's like he said earlier he was 307 or something okay yeah he's he's an old man he's not as old as he's he's he's older than bilbo yeah oh damn yeah you're right um and then victor says i suppose your legacy has been well secured what happened to you to show for your life and it's uh there's just a one of prime examples there's lots of them where the car it's not even just a show for us it's not even just for us to dig into the show and and look at subtext for our own enjoyment the characters in the show are aware of subtext like heimerdinger's response to victor saying like you've got a well secured an important legacy good shit is you should be proud of what you've accomplished victor it almost doesn't make sense like if you look at it just uh robotically like that wasn't a response to what victor said it's like well no because heimerdinger's responding to what victor's thinking about yeah what he's implying what he's referencing he's like you're you're secure implies i'm not insinuating the contrast yeah and like heimerdinger's expressions he's just like so sad because he knows exactly what he's thinking about um he says my achievements will be short lived even in your memory and uh i think you see a little butterfly land and then it leaves as heimerdinger says uh those who shine brightest often burn fastest and it's just like super depressing but also uh the best heimerdinger could possibly do and say yeah nothing for it as they would say um and then you get the intro everyone's favorite there's still a lot of split like on the trail yeah there are still there are the people who think that it's bad and then there are the people who are wrong no right calm down the the intro is awesome in if you remove the music visually yeah visually that's gotta count for something it absolutely counts for something i will say that the music is fine it just was it was just out of place in the first episode i think parts of the music are fine yeah um um where are we after mel oh yes jace tells mel that uh victor is actually you know i should be more fair to the scenes pretty good one um she's upset she's annoyed at him because he fucked off uh yeah yeah women don't like that right yeah against that and they even have her like aggression represented in what she's doing like she's moving it more aggressive uh and but it it's just really well done because like it's one of those situations where it's like yeah what are you gonna tell me that make me feel better it's like my friend is dying it's like yeah oh i like how in and i'm glad we're kind of at this scene right after watching a roland emmerich film where characters are where characters are just horrifically simple and stupid and stubborn and every way to draw out drama but in this once he tells her what's happening she's like oh shit you know and then she understands oh good excuse like a normal like a normal human being yeah instead of them drawing out how they're how they need to feel for a certain i don't know directorial whim against all reason so it's really nice to see yeah that was that that was kind of something i was afraid of seeing like oh great are we gonna draw out some really needless drama over this shit because he took off after fucking her yeah okay great but nope she she gets it already she's like stands yeah that's right it's not like yeah well and it's interesting to think about too because uh remember the dynamic right now is that she's kind of a puppet master and so it's like i don't usually care about him and he's annoyed me but then it's like someone's died and it's just like this huge thing for it to deal with in terms of like how do i approach this and then um because i think this is the scene where she goes from trying to strictly be a bit of a puppet master to being like actually this guy there's more of this guy than i realize when he says um when i'm with you nothing feels impossible he's got a lot of investment in me yeah like maybe there's more of this guy than i'm realizing sort of thing and she uh she then even says about like her history that she was exiled from noxious um yeah because you call someone from noxious a noxie a noxian noxian yeah uh fun fact about that by the way uh the thing she's painting there is the immortal bastion which is the huge fortification that the capital city of noxus was built around which is important for the last episode that you know that about the painting technically i mean i say important it's important to us because we care about details but uh it's it's you can tell from the last episode what the painting would probably represent judging from his mother's reaction to it but uh still um then we get a bit a bit of victor looking at that hex core getting all getting real tempted at this point which it's so it's so interesting to think about with victor in this show um especially for people who played the game you're just sort of like waiting for that scene where it's gonna happen right eddy's second out this is gonna happen but they really i feel are aware of that and play with it quite a bit um but thanks to the coffin of the blood and different crazy shit happening from him touching it he concludes something we will get back to that the way they show it like the hex cores like weird stuff all around him like completely enveloping the rest of the shot when we first come to victor in this scene i think that's a really cool way of showing what's going on oh yeah i should i should mention that i will get the screenshot and it's a nice uh it was mentioned before about the way that they um scene transition but obviously mel is sitting there and then he is here which there's a lot to think about with this image and this is partly why people are very invested in victor i would imagine he's going through some stuff um but yeah next up we got uh so yeah there's some weird stuff going on over in silco's henchmen land where a lot of people are missing and doing things and jinx is out of the loop so she goes to the last drop bartender and asks him what's going on and you can tell he first of all he couldn't even see that she'd come in she sneaks into the room very easily i'm not saying that for any other reason than pointing it out i i i it won't be relevant in episode nine at all um but she's also like scary to him um so it's likely that the either that he just is scared of her in general or the fact that he's been told that she needs to not know about what's going on which is that silco is aware of vi and trying to deal with her before powder finds out sort of thing i don't know how widespread the don't let jinx know well i guess the information that vi is out probably wouldn't have been disseminated that much for precisely this reason yeah like some goon might just let slip to jinx and that's exactly what silco doesn't want like i can hear the whistling wind of the lull bed you don't think i'm not on to you ball that's true there is a i figured that's fine for ambience nobody's gonna be too bothered by that but yes you could hear a little wind sounds in the background here in the um you know i've heard that sound before wow step in the way that's funny in the wind uh yeah she just gradually coaxes out that uh the silk is preparing people to get some girls um and then she even baits that she's gonna you know she like attaches a um a thing to his back it's such a like there's a brief mode of like is she actually gonna fucking explode him just like no it's the little it's the little paint one or the yeah hey jim it's a prank bro which we haven't seen since uh she was a kid right i think that vision closed yet another staple of zon is it okay with your accent i can't tell is it zorn or zon zon zon zon okay theo that doesn't help why would no your question is fucking broken because it's an accent thing it's there's loads of well that's well for spelling wise right z a u m z a u m yeah zon yeah americans would say zon but we would say zon zon zon um so uh then we cut to a good old katlyn and vye who um they're both like and dislike this moment so they want to just said steel oasis i get it rags thank you thank you very much i appreciate that hey i don't need to what was that like five minutes that's fine i'm sure they're just catching up i'm sure they're just catching yeah i'm sure they're catching up um so they're at the top of like a cliff side and they need to get to the bottom and uh so katlyn's like oh i don't know how are we gonna do this and vye like very confidently is like i got this shit and jumps and then fucks it up and falls and i like that as like uh she's so confident and yet she can fail but the thing is the fall looks pretty bad looks pretty bad really bad yeah especially when you're dealing with a stab wound yeah like you gotta be careful that we're veering on she should be dead well i mean she doesn't have a mechanical stomach but it is pretty bad true it is pretty bad um yeah it's quite a way down and oof you know um i'm not sure how to how i would tweak this but i'll probably make it so that you don't need this scene really at all yeah if you need her to be out of the picture even further just don't have it be so such an intense fall yeah because all this is communicating other than you know they get down there and vye's kind of in a fucked up state which you can't perform as she normally does is that the structure is unstable and uh that was already achieved with the stab i think so we didn't really need to do it this way but you know that's what happens um it does get across to the structures unstable maybe it's to knock her out so it does do that i think because katlyn now needs to go about her own method because vye can't tell her what to do anymore and so she is forced to ask the locals well yeah it does it does knock vye out of the picture for a little bit so katlyn has to do some stuff herself but uh just with noting someone's watching them it's the firelight yeah that's we do know at least to be that at this point known as the people of the board um and it looks like you see a bunch of a bunch of goon people running around are they are we supposed to think they're fire lights or silk goes goons i think it's still goes goons yeah yeah because fire lights are a little bit more distinct on there those look more yeah yeah they tend to like you know tend to be a bit more coordinated than that i don't think you'd be out here standing around watching them if it was them you know doing whatever they're doing yes um right where are we do you um let me get my coffee right back up it's a vk yeah she's gonna go tell uh wait oh god vlc's frozen it's terrifying oh my goodness gracious i don't know it's all over everybody we tried um all right oh well come back for part four started early one um well while it maybe recovers is that is the next scene right here you can help me out here you have your own vision wait uh yeah the next scene is savika with jinx yes yeah she's saying that yeah so uh savika walks into silco's office with uh power there jinx is waiting for her and she uh drugs her out and puts her in the chair specifically to ask her what the fuck's going on because savika's gonna know considering she was the one that was beaten up by these girls whoever they may be um and there's a moment where she's essentially told that um like savika basically thinks that this is the end for jinx almost because soon as she finds out the sister is there so she's gonna explode and i think she says silco will finally get the message that you'll know better for the cause than you were for your family um which is like damn bro Jesus well so i'm just gonna get a new vision fuck you vlc you want to freeze on me you're gonna restart it or um yeah that's that's the yeah well good um you know let's make sure i frame it right so that people at home don't get a borked screen we don't want that nope uh but yeah this this uh jinx looks like it's gotten to her for a moment but then she's like baiting um i i wonder how much it legitimately was getting to her and how much it was an act to get savika to keep going i uh yeah i think it's one of those moments it's like um black widow in in avengers it probably did it's actually just what i was thinking probably something that did affect her um but she can still use it to her advantage sort of thing yeah um because ultimately it's her stuff right like she'll be thinking about what for so because just said how much truth there is to it and then um realizing wait savika's here and enjoying this fuck you like that sort of thing um the expressions again just top-notch throughout the scene uh and um yeah the choice of words from savika to say that he'll finally get the message she just says in response i think i know how to send the message we see the result up a little bit later there's also a shot that i love hopefully i can get it before we get hit with copyright oh yeah she puts her knife uh through the thing and i was just like wow she stabbed that through it's like well no it's probably one of the bullet holes that uh katlyn put in there and but yeah we for it very quickly zoom into her when she uh savika mentions vai and the knife the knife turns into a like a visual i didn't even notice that that's cool there's a lot of ones like that and obviously she's realizing in the background a lot of things on this lady's mind there's plenty going on in her head but she's still cognizant enough to put it aside and not implode for the moment yeah what we what we know from this now is that she's not only aware it's definitely vai although she's here and so uh and savika seems actually kind of happy about this just because it's acceleration isn't basically get here fucking insane so we can finally move on without her yeah savika's interesting uh she's not really wrong to think that jinx is uh kind of a ticking time bomb in that sense oh totally i could be i could easily see myself fucking hating her if she was on my team and it was my boss that liked her not me yeah because it's preferent it was preferential treatment in a big sense because she is useful but she's also unstable as shit and sometimes shoots up the entire crew yeah yep um and then we get another really good scene and it's with a different character a little character known as marcus yay uh opening with a shot of his daughter in a frame infrowning at his own reflection in the mirror and slamming the sheriff badge onto the table this is storytelling by the way no it's just sometimes you don't even get to appreciate this sort of stuff because everyone's been lulled into liking shit like book above of that so that you you don't even expect this to happen you're just waiting for someone to say something because that's what storytelling is i feel this way i'm angry yes this is how i feel angry because i'm the sheriff i'm going to sometimes i need to remind myself of the things that i want and how i am feeling do you remember reflection ten years ago damn you're stopping me and yeah it's uh it's neat as well because he's clearly really unhappy and then he notices a laugh and then he smiles briefly because it's his daughter like oh the one thing i care about that handful of seconds sums of his character like completely that's exactly who he is right there unfortunately his his daughter's real happy because she's playing games with silco in his house silco fucking terrifying in his house with his daughter with his goons like very bad and this scene is something a lot of people seem to forget when judging marcus as a person uh we'll put a little pin in that that'll be relevant next episode so it will be it says i fucking love silco's dialogue in this scene it is top notch we got issues do you remember so everything he's saying is supposed to pass past a child's brain but it's also supposed to be incredibly threatening and informative how do you do that he says you remember our old friend vi she was about your age when your father uh told me that oh sorry she was about your age when her father went on a long trip and her daddy assured me that she went with him did you imagine that being separated from your father excellent like silco you're all bastard he was always got this look at he's always got this very plain look in his eyes that just says bitch um yeah so like the summary of the scene is silco is like vi is alive you told me she died um and he was like she's safe she's fine and that reflects what marcus was interested in which was just saving a life uh it doesn't matter that she's not dead she's out of the picture and he's like she's literally not out of the picture she's in the lanes and he's like the fuck and um silco basically says vi and katlyn cannot be allowed to resurface do we understand each other so this is as blatant as it's gonna get if those two get back to piltover i kill your daughter no um and yeah there's just loads of language in the scene like um yeah i think he says like let's talk outside and silco just goes can't you see we're playing it's like and then of course the house of like tiles falls apart and he just says accidents happen it's like there's so many lines like that that yeah they'll never know it's okay yeah my child's like the laughing way he says everyone makes mistakes right what's important is that we don't repeat them he's this is why people like silco so much seems like that we don't know one of them coming up this episode uh so anyway he's a good person like make that clear victor discovers the hex core reacts to organic matter though it falls apart soon after it doesn't sustain it means they still need to do more work and um we get into desperation levels here he says i feel my body eroding and uh jay says i'll bring heimerdinger maybe he can figure it out until then we do what's best and it's it was we were watching this um i remember me and fringy were like they're gonna bring heimerdinger heimerdinger is gonna be fucking terrified by this thing and he's gonna suggest destroying it that's what's gonna happen it's gonna happen yeah um just because of how well characterized everybody is at this point uh it jay springs in heimerdinger because he wants to help victor without realizing that this is probably not the kind of thing that heimerdinger is on board with probably the exact opposite of what heimerdinger is on board with yep because this shit's dangerous dude is indeed now um vi takes katelyn to a safe house type thing or it's a house they used to play and live at uh that's that's the implication but considering the area and who we see around it it's like things must have changed compared to what it was because there's loads it's basically like a drug addicts like fucking place now yeah it's all these shimmer people everywhere the lowest of the shimmer addicts yeah this is this is the parts of the world that no one likes to see and it's like hey we're doing a thing you're supposed to do if you want us to believe that shimmer a drug has a really bad effect on a society yeah can you guys show any show that maybe i could reference that does the opposite of that uh let's start with a b it's on the tip of my toes and stop the look of both did you did you sing the theme song there by accident i might have if anyone in chat you may have watched our coverage we were confused all the way up until the beginning of the last episode as to what the fuck spice even was and it's like the biggest thing in the whole show it is this also like all of this conflict everything they tell us why the pikes why like the tuskans were murdered why boba fed so invested in this town and how he's gonna fix it all has to do with spice and they it's not even well done he just goes it's been killing people and we were like oh oh cow that's a great question right we're not that far which spice is so delicious they're eating too much food and exploding oh no explode terrifying um so yeah uh kate is just looking at them and they're kind of monstery at this point uh she's just staying away um and gets into the place but vi is pretty delirious at this point probably from blood loss um she starts seeing running around this place a lot and i feel like it's quite appreciating when an actual stab wound is causing severe damage to a character yeah you don't get that a lot in a lot of shows it's kind of neat um is a fading in and out of complete consciousness here lucidity as they might call it and they have a pretty interesting conversation uh katlyn says it's not going to work if you can't trust each other and she says utopsy does always find a way to screw us um i think katlyn says like oh yes we're you know it's all of your your problems are our fault and uh while vi is looking at like a uh when am i looking for and and it's hallucination hallucination that's it of of powder he says not all of them and that i think is as blatant recognition as you're gonna get the vi feels heavily responsible for what's happened yeah directly says i shouldn't have left you to the powder ghost and katlyn interprets that's being to her related to the brothel scene this is very nicely done um and she's like we're not monsters we're people um i think yeah come over she prompts i think she says something like you know you gotta lean to trust or whatever and then she's like you don't know anything about me and that's when she says i shouldn't have left you actually sees powder um but katlyn says i can tell you've got a good heart and then we hear the echo of that line from vanda all the way back was i episode two or three i can't remember oh you wouldn't three uh two sorry it was yeah it was two before she's gonna turn herself in yeah um so yeah everything's running through vise head right now just just all of the things and um still pretty aggressive with katlyn but katlyn clearly believes in vi right now um moving on though uh heimerdinger demands the destruction of the hextech he's uh he has a flash to um what we assume is rise or someone else anyway destroying i believe that's grand oh really that would be my guess because i remember i mentioned to you that in current law brand was a student of rises who like wants to use the power of the world runes which are the biggest magical artifacts in the setting think infinity stones uh to like do horrible shit and he did like just annihilate a village with them uh in kind of this sort of manner at one point so and you know fire so that's my guess that's true definitely a more fire bit image um i'll see well that because i'm assuming they're just going to develop the fuck out of that as we go on with the show uh it could easily just be a random mage schmuck and it's still fine but yeah it's potential for healing is irrelevant to heimerdinger compared to its potential for destruction uh and this time it doesn't quite work out if you remember back in the first two episodes heimerdinger's demand for destruction basically overrules anything but now victor says that's up for the council to decide because he already knows that heimerdinger's power is lessened at this point um and uh before this scene ends uh he's like i've got to go do something and victor's like what like like literally like what could you have to do right now and we do find out not seconds later that he's basically immediately going to plan the destruction of heimerdinger's career basically yeah and i assume he does this very easily in terms of setting up that plan because he'd already thought about this well there's only a matter of time before he might have to enact something to get rid of get heimerdinger out of the way basically um victor mentions he has a friend to visit as well which i think it's easy to see where that's going considering the starting scene well and when victor pleads with heimerdinger heimerdinger's response is victor something's changed you're different and then goes back to the hex core and it's just like storm no um yeah and then katelyn walks outside the the building and she bumps into this guy um they have a name oh probably i don't know if he's got one i just don't know if they say it and uh i may as well take the time to get the visual when we first met him but this is the thing i don't blame anybody for not remembering him um yeah it took me a moment to remember who it was but this is here and it's something to appreciate that's kind of like how i feel about it it's like i wouldn't blame people for being like yeah and they do you know they give you all the information you need even if you don't remember him it's that he's an old friend and i think he explicitly says uh her old man saved my life i probably owe him more than that or something like that um yeah he and uh this is him and vander in the first episode and then of course he is now here uh this is top notch for representing what shimmer has done this guy is a complete fucking mess this stuff is bad like and yeah to the point where katelyn thinks he's like a threat just from the way he looks look at him look at the gross on his head like fucking hell that's a nose oh oh yeah top left and so uh yeah like uh it's it's so blatant that it's like awful that even i think a little bit later she's like why fucking take shimmer which is a worthwhile question yeah because if this is what it does to you which by the way fucking allegory is for real life drugs hey um what kind of person but willingly inject themselves with addictive substances i don't know jim um do oh yeah okay uh yeah he says um it shimmer makes me it essentially makes you feel more powerful and he says to be like someone and to make other people afraid like he's uh it just it just boosts you up like we saw it we've seen it several times and it's just like the second you've taken one dose it's pretty much you're fucked um yeah you are instantly addicted we saw it with the henchmen in the episode three yes we did uh though i imagine shimmer has changed a little bit since then but it's probably still got that level of property i'd imagine um so he takes it to a little potion seller and potion seller is like hey uh potions are your strongest potions yeah you cannot have my strongest potion unless you trade and don't worry i think everybody agrees with the criticism here she immediately gives up her rifle which is yeah all you need for this scene is for her to offer something like one of her buckles or like the little belt things on her on her arms and stuff and then like to be given a look of like are you fucking kidding me yeah i can't imagine the price is super super high considering where this person is yeah like and she has no idea what this stuff is worth so then you have her offer some bullets maybe and then the woman like somehow gestures she wants the gun or maybe even you have him say like you're gonna have to give her the gun and she could be like you fucking know i can't get and then you could just have his paws and be like yeah because you know i have no problem believing she would do this trade i just need her to have been pushed into it yeah she's not gonna it would show how important the gun is to her it almost seems like oh it's just a gun it it's not worth that it mean that here it is instead of really wanting to hold on to it because it did save vise life earlier yeah this is the thing you represent defending herself yes so she should be hesitant to give it up i do like the idea the other way that the potion seller adds something before handing it over as if to imply that had they stolen it which they could do yeah it wouldn't have worked so but um yeah i just would have liked to get a little bit more prompting because i can believe that she would give up the gun even though because if someone said like what you know she would never give up the gun it's like if it means saving vise life uh that's the interesting conundrum and i think that she would eventually give it up i know what they're going for like oh you know she started out here pointing the gun at little tumor guy like a whole bunch but then she realizes all the chaos and shit down here and now she realizes that you know she can't she doesn't have to you know solve all her problems with violence and so she's going to give up her gun is kind of like a uh representation of that but uh no you're right it was it was kind of immediate for her to just go all right here you go my most prized possession i thought the kind of angle they were trying to play was that was furthering the thing from the first episode of the top side is not knowing how to haggle in the undersea so they can just get overcharged constantly which is a different situation boss because yes but why would a potion seller want a gun you know i i i i i don't know it's valuable there's she could probably trade a gun as a pathway to many other things yeah it's true and it's a good valuable apart from what it is um and yet just something to know i i really like this shot first of all showing that the guy is like just locked into staring at that bottle because it's likely a shimmer variant of some kind and then he like he like sort of goes and like like you know realize like looks away sort of thing if i can get that shot again um there's a better one a little bit later as well but just uh he's looking at it and then he like wakes himself up like uh i'm not i'm not that's fine yeah and as she drags it away they have this shot as well just like look at that fucking guy he is even his eyes glow pink just briefly yeah it's just really nice and subtle to show just how much this has just destroyed his life this this uh this stuff um you have silco to thank for all of that yep so uh next scene marcus uh is going with silco's plan to frame the fire lights which i think is super interesting to think about that he didn't do that up until his family was threatened oh hey it's not jay oh hey not jay i'm okay go give him a second it's f hi f it's boot up he's revving up okay ring glow ring glow you there yes yeah hi don't worry you haven't missed too much we're only halfway through the first episode's coverage at an hour so yeah not a fantastic speed but we're gonna have to keep going we're gonna have to keep going um oh we decided to start a little early because we could uh so yes i i yeah so for those of you in chat i would i was asleep while all of these plants were set in motion i told them that already let them know that you're not to bless see i told you guys this would happen and then i would just clarify that these plants were set in motion while i was you said that you would say it's just clarifying i think i used that exactly i have a little gaslight hell yeah let him drink his first coffee let him boot up it's not it's not cringy's fault chat this time yeah this time um jay also started up a stream um and we've now realized that jay wouldn't have made it even if we hadn't changed the time so jay is a liar jay is canceled and that is that's good it's good that that's happening anyway how much stuff happens like i know the world doesn't stop when i go you know it's not like the world hits pause and revolves around me there's all sorts of things happening which i think is unfair if we were going to pause at any point it should be when for you to sleep all in favor exact yeah oh whoa i'm not sure i don't know free is like well actually that's probably not a good idea uh so yeah like i said i just i think it's interesting that it is now that he's engaging with framing the fire lights which he was clearly against doing an episode four but he's you know it's too much pressure now um and then the first question jace obviously has is like where the fuck were you with all of this how is this only being dealt with now and uh mox says that they've been dealing with the hex gate security so we haven't had time to deal with like undercity terrorism essentially um which is an east just to add that's in the addition to the world building uh that you know verifies what silka was saying about topside leaving them behind because they don't really need the fissures as such anymore because they're a global shipping lane now thanks to the hex gate um and then so this scene is actually the most blatant scene of marcus being a clever boy um he basically tells jace the only way to deal with the firelight problem is to lock up the bridges and we wouldn't want to do that and then jace is like do it and he's like oh are you sure oh when it's like that's exactly what marcus wants he doesn't want silko coming into his house again well that plus the fact that he can snipe off uh katlyn and vi because that's his primary job from silko now so it puts him in the best position he can get that is the best thing he can do right now considering everything but uh there's another interesting interaction where and i think this is the most blatantly shrewd that marcus is being and it might have been picked up where he's like oh um i that that kiriman girl she uh she got someone out of prison either the you know like with your approval anything that i should be helping with and jace like hesitates with what he's doing and he's like uh no we got it covered which is interesting right because does this mean that katlyn did all of that without jace's knowledge and he's covering through is that what we're supposed to gather from this uh it's either that or jace didn't know the extent that this would go to to the point where it's being picked up by the head of the enforcers which makes him think that oh like did she do something that's like legitimately like a fucking big deal because um jace looks shocked when marcus brings it up my assumption is that jace is realizing katlyn forged his signature but that he trusts katlyn so much that he figures that whatever she's doing it for is important wow katlyn should be very very very appreciative of jace 100 yeah because that never actually gets brought up again uh yes jay there needs in season two there needs to be a conversation between jace and katlyn about their them like what what are they to each other at this point what's what's going on what where do they stand not just relationship wise which it isn't going to pan out but it's what jace knows about it and that that conversation needs to take place and it's something that i'm looking forward to seeing well yeah because uh we will we're almost there but like the relationship between jace and katlyn has um dramatically changed since they would have lost spoken to each other and neither of them realize that yet because they've become different people to a degree it's really neat how they've just like they they just grow apart i don't think that's something you particularly see very much when it's not like yeah because they're separate yeah they're separated but they different walks of life and they just end up different people um but yeah so the the bridges are now gonna be closed up uh well they're closed up in the sense that you you have to be inspected before you can cross the bridge that's how it works um which leads us by the way that scene jace is just writing something and we're about to find out what that is because we have a council meeting where it opens with uh haimedinga saying we have traded honor for prestige um and to return to what we built this place for it's gonna take vigilance and we must hold each other accountable which was i think jace was just waiting for a word to jump on haimedinga because he's like and who holds you accountable and uh so i quite love the character work in this scene haimedinga is just like i'm gonna explain in simple and calm words why we should do a thing that's obviously the right thing and like when jace fucking attacks him haimedinga is like what like he has no fucking clue that this was even a potential he's completely blindsided um and yeah jace says shimmer is rampant attacks the academy square and the hex gates enforces fear the lanes like what the fuck have you done about all of this mister i am leading this place and haimedinga is legit like i have no fucking what what is happening like that would be pretty like stunning like uh yeah because these he's never received these criticisms before he's obviously you know like i like haimedinga a lot but he's obviously been pampered a little bit like nobody's a dick to him because he's nice to everybody uh and he's kind of distance himself from everyone else's affairs yeah he's he's happily just been in in the science uh which uh he's missed the politics which again this was all set in play in the previous two episodes um and yeah so he uh jace like stands up and he's like what's your plan to fix this and haimedinga is like oh i see what this is about your hex tech needs more time which is again just cutting right to it haimedinga knows what's going on now he was a bit confused but now he gets it because he's just looking for that motive um and there's this moment where i think haimedinga goes from here being like oh you're suggesting bullshit i'm gonna deal with it but um and so like i would argue he's aggressive and ready to for the fight that's haimedinga's expression here but then jace starts talking a little bit and um a statement he starts coming out with is you are the true father of piltover and your years of service can never be repaid and the second he starts saying that haimedinga realizes what jace is about to do and uh the expression absolute falling of his face because it's just like uh look at this little guy never stated because this is simultaneously the fact that you would even try that the person who i have helped so much and taught so much and he spoke up for you so much just uh yeah he just never would have seen this coming didn't and his little ears they flopped out as well jace isn't pleased with what he's doing no no no no he's not a fan he's gotta do it yeah because i wanna but he feel like he's gotta because in his mind he thinks that's like the proper thing to do for piltover basically and for victor that sounds a lot about yeah he's not doing this for himself so he wants to help victor and hopefully piltover as well i think victor is like at the front of his mind right now it's like we need this technology to say because this happens right after yeah i feel like that's the statement to sum up all of jace's character for like a huge amount of it is he doesn't wanna but he feels like he's gotta why doesn't heimer say jace is doing crazy shit in his basement so that crazy shit in his basement is precisely why the counselors are on jace's side uh hextech is why they're invested in jace and why they're gonna side with him because they would rather proliferate hextech in all of its possibilities instead of going safe and controlled yeah not to mention this was um this was kind of bouncing off of when they were when they were speaking during the opera and how jace basically said like if you invest in us you get a front row seat to all my cool shit yeah and uh so everyone is already like literally and figuratively invested in jace's work not to mention jace has a very real point that humans cannot wait for progress because they don't live as long as heimerdinger does yeah hextech has weeks maybe yeah months we don't know yeah he doesn't have all this time weeks from the looks of it yeah it's pretty pretty bad already for victor um they don't have there was a time to get things done they can't plan that far ahead they don't have like okay we have a century timeline for this particular project and all of its uses because essentially it's an entire person's lifespan plus when i was young i used to read a lot of yeah go ahead just as someone said and yet neither of them bring up hextech uh heimerdinger explicitly brings it up and then jace says what theo just said which is that we can't wait for progress humans die so it's addressed but i don't even think it needs to be addressed the point here isn't that the council fully understand the nature of the safety of the hextech it's that he's being completely backstabbed right now um and there's not much he can do about it because the council have been bought essentially but go ahead what were you doing there was a old science fiction story i read uh because i've read many when i was young um where a human was converted i forget the name of the story i wish i remembered but there's a part where they have this this crew of different alien species and amongst them there are humans and a human character is talking to one of the aliens and one of this alien species they live for hundreds of years and they say that one of the they think one of the reasons that humans at least in this world had progressed so quickly in terms of technology and things like that whereas his race had taken much much much longer to do it was because the shorter lifespan of humans had encouraged them to be a lot more risky and to try and get things done faster because they knew they didn't have this huge swath of time to just sound like something that went on a mass effect you know the solarians only live for like 30 35 years yeah but you got it you got races like the uh the asari who live for like hundreds and hundreds of years if not thousands of thousands or something so i remember like i remember that being brought up like you know why humans are so you know bold and brash and abrasive and quick and everything is because they don't live long enough so i remember that being a mass effect thing as well uh and i'll get i'll give you one more uh because i've responded to four things from the same chat because it's the goalpost keep fucking moving i'ma doesn't bring up jayce's new invention why he has no reason to bring up the invention beyond saying the technology is untested that's it he can't what is he gonna say like i saw them put a plant on the hex core and it made it become a bigger plant and then it died so yeah there's really not all he can say is i believe that's gonna lead to bad things which is like the point he's making uh the thing is the council is on taking that seriously right now because they want to get the supply lines open the business is thriving etc i have to mention it how's he gonna explain that to the council anyway are they even really gonna listen like as as non scientists yeah i mean this is where i mean it all lines up as far as i can tell yeah yeah absolutely i gotta he can cite examples of magic destroyed cities yes changes nothing you know else destroy cities technology yeah you know else destroy cities armies like i don't think heimerdinger isn't wrong it's just that he's not going to be very compelling and this is what he's been telling the whole time only now they have very tangible results from jayce's inventions that really stand in the way of allowing heimerdinger's mindset to come through um and yeah he says uh it ends with it's time we give our beloved father a well-deserved retirement and he's just like don't do this because um it's obviously not about whether or not he needs a retirement or whether or not his points are just these he's too old to understand it's literally uh well heimerdinger knows they're trying to get rid of him because he's the only thing standing in the way of safety oh well destruction sorry the other the other the other part of safety um but yeah i really like they show each of the counselors some of them are shaking one of them is like it's katlyn's mom who looks really like fucking worried because this is this is big potatoes but they all have the power to do this um so they start committing to it and heimerdinger uh jayce is the last one who uh still hesitates very hesitant to even face his arms it's like uh because he's very well aware he's he just stabbed his mentor in the back and he never did anything wrong to him basically he even looks away from him he turns his head the other side and i think it's important that uh heimerdinger is still blown away that mel would agree and i think this is a moment of like he has to realize that mel is not quite as straightforward as he probably thought yeah um and yeah and he's just seeing everyone else vote him out it's so sad the devastated look on his face as they all like man i didn't think i'd give him a heimerdinger fuck man and don't even think it's only because he's getting voted out he's just like oh man you're probably all gonna destroy yourselves i've seen this all before dude there's so much to it i think that it's the fact that his he is like as he was described the father of piltover he's like the one that created all of this got everyone together focused everybody on the ideas and he's getting removed um and he's watching all these people who i think he would believe just with his like basic understanding of like dare i say humanity that like they wouldn't vote me out he's like i've been with these people for probably decades so yeah it's just it's incredibly stressful environment for him but he's his whole life's flashing before his eyes i'd imagine he's completely blindsided i imagine which is why like even if there was more that could be said in his defense he isn't able to really say it because like what the fuck is happening jace comes in with the final vote which means it's past and he's just fucking gotta go to go to deal with all that um but uh i think it's worth mentioning this is uh this is very fast um in terms of a process what does everyone think about that i think it's uh easy easy to abuse and we've already seen the abuse i know when i watch this the first time i felt like it happened too quick that it's not a huge deal because there is some setup that leads to be like like everyone's got their motivations for it happening that this has been sort of referred to before i just feel like it's suddenly happening like someone just brings it up and everyone votes on it and then you would figure that it would be a process for this you know yeah like i want the father gone you assume that the safeguards to prevent this kind of speed of trial happening though i wonder does piltover have the division of powers i don't know that heimating are ever sort of this is that's where i was going to go with this so i imagine they're kind of a young system in a sense i know the 200 it's like that's not that yeah it's like it is if if like they've not dealt with a lot of these kinds of issues bureaucratically wise or count i imagine this council has been very straightforward for so long that they have rules that they're not even like you know like britain has rules like this in relation to the queen where it's just like why the fuck does she have the power to do this like don't worry she'll never use it it's like yeah but she never because she never does it but what if by nine that's the thing i i can believe that they maybe when they were setting up this council is like well if every other member votes for a council member to be removed then like that's reasonable right that means that something's wrong with that council member this is the right thing to do without realizing it's like yeah but what if they're all politically corrupt and essentially paid off to get rid of them what if it's a it's a thing to get rid of the person i just don't think he ever foresaw that it would be used against him in a really like slimy way because i don't think he foresaw that people could get on the council while not being you know of a similar mind to him in that way because you'd theoretically arrive on the council by standing for what piltover was built for and um as far as i'm saying it's probably something that malin j like mal knew this was an option and then got jace to push it really hard and then like this was all done so quickly and effectively and then the rest of them they're not really voting him out because of what jace has said they they just know that they got a follow along with what jace suggests at this point if they want access to more hextech shit especially with heimerdinger's whole premise being we got to stop the hextech shit um but yeah i think it's it's built really well i'm not sure how i would tweak it to make this maybe more easy to digest in terms of a political system having such a significant change i don't know i'd have to give it some thought um maybe yeah i don't know it would help if we had more time certainly to to drag it out a little bit longer to maybe i don't know yeah i'm not sure off the top of my head it feels quick it feels like it just sort of happens in an instant um but i think in the context of it being galvanized by uh crisis in that sort of way helps smooth things along yeah i think so oh hi j wow how was your stream j it was great yeah i i didn't get to see it i would have but i was yeah we were just doing you fat now so we're too busy yeah yeah i thought we were starting at seven which is yeah well now which is currently half an hour late if that were the truth well if if we were starting at seven i would have ended streaming come on oh okay but because wow that was my plan my plan was to stream for an hour and then come on oh yeah considering i was late anyway i thought i'd spend a little longer wrapping up all right i'm already late i'll just be later this is why people want to kick you this is exactly why well because i'm not here because you're flungus let's say he has to be here got him you missed hymerdinger getting fired how could you no no i don't want to relive that painful memory that's true um all right enough pleasantries we must move on we're already running the only thing that the only thing that would have really improved this scene is if jace looked down at hymerdinger and said okay boomer this show is meant to be able to be consumed by like teenagers and stuff right it was a bit harsh you know i think that's like our rated shit and for me silence i think you agree i think jace should have directly said to hymerdinger hymerdinger i need you out of the way so i can help victor with hextech i think that would have probably improved it then the other characters are like i agree but not for the reasons you may think they just like yeah yeah victor needs our help yeah oh next scene there are many people who claim that the interest of vi and katlyn and katlyn and vi comes from nowhere in episode eight um i'm just taking off my copyright screen there oh she gets to the the uh the old potion and she's flipping out and she grabs her as she's flipping out and they just they just have this little thing it's like oh it's fine don't worry about it moving on and uh great gay we've already had a few of the little bits and bobs it's just you know there's an interest of some kind between them about something anyway moving on so you go uh she sees the name powder and vi on the wall from when they were comparing heights they were younger and she's like who's powder and she says i thought she died she's my sister and she says how do you not know she's alive and then she's like hard to check when i'm in prison she's like well don't you have parents these are all very normal questions but like when you listen to me like oh my god katlyn can you say privilege like these questions are very awkward for for to understand the answers are all really horrible it's like no parents yeah they were killed by enforcers assholes like it all right oh it's like a hurdle um though the potion seems she says why didn't they comply oh god i'm taking a head off i think but uh the potion seems to have done a magic slash fantasy which is heal the wounds just completely it's it's all done now um mechanically shimmer is a fantasy juice that does all kinds of things and i think we've already had it implied it has healing properties um so i'm mostly fine magic yeah magic shaman lady in the shadows might be special yeah he took the shimmer it got him right back on his feet true um so anyway uh they they're really sort of restated that this place is very rickety and uh then they hear noises outside and it's silco oh never the one to make a cool looking entrance sure it's quite a it's almost like a you know like you have hero entrances like such such a villain one where he's holding the the shimmer vials and these the the creatures of this area of people who have just been destroyed by shimmer all surrounding him stuff just like uh he's drunk jesus yes he's already done the slow clap entrance so now it's now for this one he's got a checklist of entrances to do yeah dude um he's so good he's got this covered uh one of the one of the lines he has that i found really interesting he says um candidly i thought you were the prize of your second hand family but jinx is more than i ever imagined i wonder if there's an implication there that he was actually planning something for vi of some kind um because a lot of people talked about this but in the scene with uh in episode three it's interesting that he gives the command to decade to kill them after the explosion like implying maybe that the command previously wasn't killed them it was something else i don't know like there's this thoughts about what was silco's plans exactly and it's just like i'm pretty sure he was gonna kill him you definitely decided to eventually but you know i may have had a contingency of if i can make vi see things my way that'd be a fucking asset to have on hand maybe yeah um also it's probably worth mentioning i don't think we ever mentioned it in uh in the streams but um uh goga mentioned the reason that she's got vi on her face and i was like convinced by it um his prison number was five one six and so five five one for one and then together they make six that's enough of a reason for it to put that tattoo on your cheek i think interesting um and then when she put it on she was like oh my name's vi oh wow think about that another another theory i heard was uh that's the number of people that she lost i don't know if that works uh you have to push it a little to make that work right because you have to you count you have to count powder when her whole thing is getting to powder as soon as she can like uh she didn't confirm powder dead so powder can't count which means we have milo claga vanda a new parents which makes for five mama dad yeah unless you want to say five for v and then one for maybe powders dead she's the one of the other thing but i think the the the five one six thing works just better and i think that was just the right way of trying to be like okay we'll keep the stupid vi tattoo but we'll try and justify it a different way it's kind of like you're eating wanted to say something and then gave up halfway through the food was so delicious like i can't talk right now we're not eating not eating i like i like stuff halfway through my words like hang on let me try again oh my god that's anyway the thing that um like if i was like a fucking writer and i was put that on my desk like the character's name is vi and she has a tattoo um that says vi on her face my immediate thought would be to go okay do people call her vi because of that tattoo well here's the thing like i think this is one of those things they had to well they maybe had to throw together like suddenly on this box they realized maybe they've made a mistake because in the in vi's law in the game her name isn't violet i don't think or at least right that makes sense to me like so the nickname vi probably came from the tattoo right okay yeah to me that would be the best explanation that they could have in the show well i mean i think this is sufficient well the thing the thing about this to me is that right even if her um prison number is that and she's getting a five for the vi and you know right whatever right there she still must be aware that that's her name and that what she's doing is getting a tattoo of her name on her face like that's still gotta be something that she knows is happening so anyway i'll take your silence as agreement i'm just glad they let them get tattoos in prison yeah gotta keep all that creative freedom flowing you know um all right where are we here yeah so uh silka does villain speech uh jinx is walking around she's overhearing this she's not quite sure what's going on vi decides instead of battling these fucking shimmer goons she'll break the um the structure there and she was already pretty rickety and uh just i think it topples forward so they just move forward as in like you know it's toppling to them so they go straight through because then it won't hit them basically the kind of thing you should be able to figure out as a human being that he never do in a lot of movies you know what show they didn't figure that out in book of oba fat stupid droid is chasing them down a really long street they just didn't turn left or right because they were like why would i do that it's stupid no we'll we'll be cornered if we keep going we can't just keep going so it's not like this is different directions does that just put up with that yeah i remember uh when they're getting chased by a guy with a baseball bat and they make a joke specifically about the fact that three of them don't split up because he keeps following them because he's still afraid to go in a different direction i remember bat woman did that too bat woman's chasing this dude and fucking bat mobile dude's on foot and he's just running down the street happens all the time all the time up um people lose 75 percent of their iq whenever they're being chased by anything yeah you prepare that actually you know if i was being chased i'd probably lose some iq because i'm a little bit scared because i'm a little pussy yeah probably i'm a little pussy i mean you're doing like eating noises while you're not eating so yeah um this whole structure is about to fall on silco um i've seen people mention like plot armor that he survives this like it looks as if he knows there's a big eye he looks at it and so he probably would have been like i'm in the center of the eye this is the best i can do yeah he pulls a bus from keaton he does yeah um um like he does move himself so i think he moves himself into the eye to give himself the best chance of survival then we get a little music number because there's destruction everywhere vi and katlyn are climbing back up and um powder pops the flare for lack of a better script of what it is because i'm not even sure um the flare that's what she was told to a light uh back which is always fine do yeah and uh seen it noted that it makes a big blue smoke which is the closest thing i think we get to a connection to jinx's tattoo she's got blue clouds the go down your arm and like torso i think as well i didn't think about that yeah well and i just wonder if that's why that tattoo is there that she's thought about pulling this thing for the whole life basically um yeah uh vi spots it and uh they do a sort of montage of them heading toward it while silco is losing his fucking mind um this is kind of the first time we've ever seen silco do that he's always been calm about things but this time he's actually losing his shit kicking the hell out of these his henchmen but just really strange all of a sudden when he tries to do his usual response for a moment you see him by here he's just sitting down and having a think it's not quite working out though and so he gets up and starts doing a big yell um and i think that what we're supposed to take from this is that this is the most stressed out silco has ever been in his entire life and he can't control himself anymore like he usually does we've got all the pressures of the usual stuff with uh piled over versus zon but now he's like the favorite person in the world might uh think very differently of him if she's able to find out something that he desperately tried to control and has now failed to to the point where he knows i think this is about to fall apart uh yeah lots of things going wrong for silco right now and he's gone not really able to do anything so he's just fucking flipping out because of course he had to like throw together a response in an afternoon because he didn't know that vi was alive and then suddenly she's just in the lanes yeah this is all happening really quickly for him also there's this shot and combined with the music which i can't share uh quite effective yeah it's pretty good yeah i didn't even register the music was wood kid the first time around it was what sorry uh wood kid uh do you remember the person who did the music for that one trailer for assassin's creed revelations that one oh was it that guy that that was a really cool trailer me too i remember that trailer now a lot of good assassin's trailer i like wood kid um but what's also happening at this point is that the the bridges are being sealed and marcus is covering it with all of his men it's just uh we knew this would happen and it's happened um until the sequence ends and yeah seriously silco is fucking up his uh his friendo there curb stomping him yep it's already dead the sequence ends with with powders flair running out and her getting a bit frustrated until she hears her voice being called and um this is the thing gonna be different for everybody at this point in the show but i was so fucking invested in this pretty after the first episodes i was just like oh my god they finally met back up and they everything oh shit i've skipped something actually yeah okay so a couple of things we'll get back to that in a moment right so we get part two of the flashback for victor as a kid um he's clearly collected some of those little like flowery weird things that uh rio eats right to deliver them and he sees rio this is the first shot by the way it's just like this looks like fun yeah um alive it's not exactly well yeah i think would be the way to describe that oh yeah it looks really rough um milking machine well it could be milk it it could also be ejecting uh i want that gecko milk he's he's an interesting fellow that guy well yeah so victor's terrified and yes uh for rio obviously um and is it the when singed walks into victor holding him he repeats that the mutation must survive yeah i thought you understood the mutation and uh yeah it's just like you did this and uh leaves victor would have just thought that meant oh you're gonna save its life yeah not this not doing absolutely anything to keep it to keep it alive which um we then cut to like they very deliberately split this up and i like it quite a bit they pan and the room changes and look how far singed has come with rio he's now in this giant tank just all this experimentation still alive yeah um is an incredibly interesting character given how little time he has in the show yeah and still a little more to go yeah we still got more to go we still got a little bit more to learn about him and uh it's also just well executed because uh especially with victor's first response once the scene begins that's exactly what i've been going through his mind as he came here yeah he was calling you know the second time he went down to singed lair and found rio like that yes completely concluded by his line where he says i understand now and uh this is a cool moment for the game fans too because this is totally normal for the show watchers that singed that's what's what he looks like after the explosion he was in um but for the game it's like oh that's singed and they know that you if you watch the scene knowing it's a reveal you could tell that they did that on purpose yeah it's a dramatic beat when he turns and everything yeah good shit you just like him because he also makes goo no no i like i like that uh in the show we have several different types of scientists essentially no not types of goo just types of scientists like we we try to if it was like we're hitting all of the uh i guess important archetypes that we want for scientists to explore you know these concepts like hymendinger is hyper like socially responsible scientist he's always concerned about let's slow it down let's chill out we need to make sure that this is safe we need to test it we need to we need to steadily march forward even if that means that we're going a little bit slower to make sure that we we're safe and we don't hurt people and then on the other side of the spectrum is singed who is entirely devoted to like science and making progress in science and achieving these things you know beating death essentially he is completely subsumed in in that goal and and not even like there's no doubt in his mind that this is the way that he ought to operate and then if it was like victor and jacer in the middle kind of oscillating between both sides but with different motives in mind uh because like with in the case of victor it's it starts to become more about himself and saving himself whereas i guess with jace it's more so about trying to yeah this is what we've got to do to like save the most people um it's just really cool to have all of those perspectives in the show and explore throughout it um i think sinch is like really great as a method of exploring that i can't wait for more of him i can't wait for more of him i'm super excited to see more essentially with what he's been up to oh yeah show fit since you were um with its attitude towards science being um all of having all of these attitudes towards science explored is pretty relevant to what's going on in the world where we have currently where we have um stuff like i a being i a i being developed which could potentially be very dangerous but we're still developing it anyway i feel like it's a very relevant modern concern that the show is about even though it's literally about magic allegory i mean i would say yeah i guess it because this one's more focused on death i guess life and death like that's kind of what sinch is trying to work on yeah um you might survive and and just how victor has gone from being disgusted to be in like any help uh i suppose i probably should wait for this but i'm just wondering about in the context of stuff cinched says later if the mutation surviving has like how one interprets that well do you want to put it in your back pocket we'll get there yeah i guess so no little lunchbox i don't have a lunchbox loser so silco is looking he sits down in his office and he realizes wait what the fuck he's still mad um jinx has drawn like a bunch of shit with a knife and arrow that points up and he spots that savika has been uh tied up let's say with the word liar he'd scribed on it on your arm yeah which is not good uh for silco that means that obviously silco jinx has found out everything from savika more than likely means all the shit that he just went through was for nothing mm-hmm yep and i think that's the last we see of silco for this episode isn't it it's gonna be next time his second act one point he's yeah he's quite alive that's okay um okay back to what i was jumping ahead to because i fucking love this scene um we've got like jinx is pretty tangled right now this is very much a difficult situation and she already is almost like vice not here for me that fucker and throws the uh the flare she's obviously angry but then via is actually there and like this is the thing she's already a killer she's already kind of a psycho but like i just fully believe that jinx doesn't want to have to deal with any of this i'd like this expression where she sees via it's like one of hope as far as i've considered um representative a bit of like wait me and her that was like the best time of my life yeah and anyway it's just a huge moment because they both come very far and you as a as a viewer like this could go in many ways and uh i think they handle it incredibly well so they she hugs her immediately and it's it's neat in a sense that jinx would be very against that with pretty much anybody else but she's already just let her in completely um yeah so quick and she's already tearing up as well because this uh we got all the context for their um their childhood so this just you know what is being appealed to here with both of them um because all those i guess negative feelings that jinx has been cultivating and dealing with it's hard to like when the person's right there again i guess and like they did show up after you let the flare i don't know it's hard to really deal with that at the same time well not to mention too it was pretty like just from some of her designs how she painted her nails both blue and violet showed like in a subtle manner that she still was really hoping to see her again she was always on her mind um someone just said it's amazing how the ai drew all of this it's almost like humans did it what so the only thing that that makes me think about is i've actually seen some people watched our boba fat coverage and concluded we said that arcane was made by robots um why why why so i can explain this because listening comprehension work on it right go back and listen again what i say is that luke was constructed in audio and visuals completely artificially though if you keep a good eye on him and you listen closely it becomes clear he's robotic then i said a lot of people say that there's no chance of anything like not human ever being able to come close to human and then we immediately say well we've just watched arcane so we know that even if it's not human you can still get to the point which is almost better than human and some people were like yeah but arcane wasn't made by an ai it's like that's not what we're saying that is uh man that is really working comprehension yeah just like listen again and you'll understand our point because for some reason you thought that we thought that this was all made by an ai like no and i'm not saying that's what that chatter is saying it's just the only thing i can think of that they can say that could you imagine finding out like literally the entirety of arcane was made by an ai that was terrifying terrifying and i'd be like please get this ai to make more i'd be right in the corner just shaking back and forth like oh my god it's terrible and ai did that it's like well i guess that's the end of that era and beginning of the new robot god era yeah but the thing is um what at that point right is you want you don't want like disney to own that ai you want anyone to be able to use that ai because disney would have full control like they can they can make a movie at the touch of a button it's amazing but anyone could do that it's just disney owns the button so we're back on this topic again are we yeah please let's let's move on yeah well i'm just gonna say that uh even if this we're all handcrafted i do believe ai will be able to create this shit on their own eventually of course eventually yeah like what we saw with luke was it getting better it is already better than mando season two it's been more a year i i don't see how anybody could not be convinced give it like a hundred years give it a thou like however long you think it takes we're gonna head towards there eventually it depends we could reach some kind of fundamental technological limitation that stops progress right that would be the other possibility i suppose that's that's possible i i guess the thing is is that when we already see now that you've got like artificial intelligence that can like create musical compositions and artwork and it's not like there yet just give it time yeah um i don't know why that you'd assume that it wouldn't be possible with enough time or enough you know continued development very nice that it is yeah so something i like as well is that um when i was watching this i was like just tell you take it to prison that's the first thing you got to get clear straight away you didn't abandon it she literally says that first thing yeah i was taken to prison and uh powder's reaction is marcus and then she goes i don't know like the the fact is that uh jinx would have been told by silco through marcus that by was dead so that means either silco lied or marcus lies some someone's lied basically yeah yeah um and yeah like the the thing is uh powder jinx at really this point i could call her either she's um this is great but things aren't quite like they used to be um like she misses the fuck out of eye and and and it's nice they're reunited but i mean we got a lot of stuff to talk about basically uh to ask are you real first yeah she says are you real which is pretty rough well that implies she she's very well aware of her like mental situation it's like oh she sees all these things and doesn't even know if most of them are actually real building puppets of the dead friends i imagine in like less clear terms this has happened in some form before yeah maybe yeah um yeah and then we get one of my favorite expressions throughout the whole thing this is in response to so the confirmation vibe is real this is real we're here this is happening i'm your sister and then just uh jinx breaking down because uh she says things changed when you left i changed like just with with how she looks when saying this to me it's like she's not happy about where she is right now but she's there and it's kind of hard not to address it what she wants now she realizes that it's closer within her grasp going back to how things were before is farm is closer to being in her grasp than she ever realized it was but she's still realizing it's probably not possible because of um she's voicing that frustration right she never knew it was this possible but it still isn't she's so close now to getting what she wants but she still can't have it yeah it's uh i i i imagine she wonders if it is still possible because uh well just the the fact that it's by the fact that vi exists is alive and cares about it yeah she's got all these things confirmed right now and this is her reaction that i may have been i may have gone too far uh but that confirmation is then damaged significantly um in a moment because vi says we we've we've both done things to uh to survive from what matters is we're together which i think is the closest we'll get to what vi went through in prison um she's probably done some stuff in there that she is not proud of uh from that line and she's killed some silcoons probably yeah yeah probably proud of that way just a just a quick video game thing uh i guess is worth mentioning uh vi calls jinx pow pow here as you know a nickname for powder uh later on in in the video game later down the line for her she starts to call that gun the minigun pow pow oh interesting um it would be nice if that minigun came later though just yes but yeah this in terms of like a juxtaposition of character this is such a soft moment and jinx is totally like this is the nicest and calmest we've ever seen her but then you hear footsteps and i was thinking about this when i was watching it the first time i was like katelin's here um and the problem with katelin being here is several fold you have to understand all the characters in play right now we go with katelin first because she's probably the easiest her perception is i've broken someone out of a prison to help understand how silco is destroying different things and controlling different things related to the fight between piltover and zorn so far i've done really well and made sacrifices for this vi person who i believe is a good person um she's got lots of issues happening and we've just bumped into silco who tried to kill us i feel like at this point we've got enough to work with um and we're kind of like you know are we heading out and then it's like well vi's got to see her sister first her sister who 100 matches the person who's fueled katelin to go on this adventure the person who's killed a bunch of enforcers the person who's been blowing up parts of piltover so katelin is obviously feeling partially betrayed and furious then go over to vi so it was like loves one of these people and fully respects one of these people um having to deal with both of them completely crossing swords and needing to calm the situation down before it gets any worse and then jinx being someone who has incredible issues with abandonment betrayal mistrust lies she's got all this confirmed from from from vi so it's working out but wait savika told her earlier she's not here for jinx she's here for the gemstone and she's working with enforcers or is with an enforcer and this person shows up um and so that's all you really need vi is hanging out with this person savika said she was hanging out with an enforcer and that she's lying to you she's not actually here for you she's here for the stone if enough of the facts from savika line up then uh it's all needs you just need to push jinx slightly over the edge until uh the rest will be done by something that's a part of your psyche right now which is represented perfectly by voices in your head uh she pushes vi off straight away and starts charging the gatling gun um a fucking expression as well she's like she's so fucking ready to kill kailyn already uh which has got to be a little bit a little yeah it's uh i was gonna say uh like a little birdie there just chilling out but uh the crow is stressful at this seed because with every few lines it cuts back to it good like bra just like he's already figured out he's already figured out that something's going wrong row competition oh yeah because the crow was invested in this working out um yeah i'm like no it's not working out far yeah uh vi's just trying to calm her both down and uh what it takes is that one little realization over to turn the fucking gun on vi like yeah she because she starts putting it together she's like you weren't actually here for me you're trying to get that stupid fucking stone flying me yeah and uh and meanwhile while that's happening kailyn is like your sister is jinx and that vi is like no no no no like like like hang on like because it's stop it you're ruining it that's a little bit snowballing out of her control yeah because that realization is fucking terrible jinx has killed lots of kailyn's friends uh meanwhile just the the left of vi jinx is losing her mind uh and they spin around us again with the fucking dead look at that shot man yeah oh jesus that's bad man and yeah she's again milo's here representing something she's weak she's being manipulated she's being lied to can't trust vi doubt um but then vi does a really good job of coming across as very fucking genuine even when she's aimed the gun right at her face she's like um uh she says like no i'm here for you and she even like grabs her arm a little bit and it's just this great moment of because even i was like you can only push this so far the floor i often find and we're gonna get into this big time as this stream goes on with holly quinn type archetypes is that it's an excuse for a writer to do something they do anyway which is when you know i'm like i'm pretty sure two plus two is five and frieze like oh two plus two is three and rags like i can solve this situation it's and then i don't know there's an explosion that happens in rags like actually maths is kind of gay if you think about it and then we all like have a huge fight and it's like why is nobody talking about the thing that would solve the problem everyone's just going nuts and then holly quinn archetypes they're allowed to just do that for free they can just literally talk about anything they want at any time and destroy conversations and create drama great it's just a free pass but um i was actually impressed with this the vi says all of that then puts her hand on powder like this is the best possible argument she can make and jinx really doesn't have anything definitive to work with and so she actually stops she's like i need to think because she's still got the voices in her head telling her she's wrong um this is carnage for a fucking brain she yes if you look at her face she starts hyperventilating as well as vise talking to her about how she can trust her and uh yeah uh i was already sold pretty much at this point that they're doing an incredible job with jinx this is really hard to nail um but i feel that she's reacting very straightforwardly to a lot of what she's been given when you apply the variables of her brain and her sort of main concerns her main insecurities yeah unfortunately look at this fucking these frames yeah it's like um and then she hears something and um i want to say this now so we can get out of the way instead of being like maybe uh we find out next episode that the fire lights were keeping an eye on vi which we saw and uh they decided to attack her once they had confirmed that she's working for silco and they treated her hugging and being connected to jinx as evidence of that that's why they attack now it's not a coincidence okay um because i think a lot of people think it is but a certain character makes clear that this the reason they went for now was because they they believe all of them are working for silco um so one sister started working for silco who's yeah he doesn't know the other yeah well they have a whole conversation with that which we're getting relatively close to i love this action scene it's been great um the katlin's gunning for the gemstone vi is just looking to defend herself from where the fuck is happening and jinx hates these people wants to kill them and she's firing her katlin gun throughout the whole thing pretty much um it's a lot of like quick shots but and you know it's very frantic in pace but there's still enough for you to clearly understand what's going on like a particular sequence i'd refer to with that is uh you know when one of them throws a blob of the crystal thingy at jinx she ducks it shoots it and then like quickly as the person's going past uh slapped a grenade on the back of his uh board and then there's a few quick cuts around as everyone realizes what's happening we get a cut to the fire light leader as he picks up on that and he goes down there and you know saves that person as they're about to well fold their death or whatever they have a lot of moments where jinx jinx is very aware of the environment she picks up like all of the details all the noises they show us several times doing that yeah she shoots through the um the thing we saw them use in episode four to freeze people um and yeah and as he's flying past to just this and it looks fantastic that's really good all that detail um but yeah she attaches the grenade like theo said bobs him up um and the leader does realize yeah lots of little interactions like that in the fight um more importantly i guess for character is that vi is just trying to fight off the biggest one out of all of them but casually sort of keeping an eye on powder in the fight and realizing something a little disturbing which is that she's very much enjoying this yeah as well as fighting fighting flying pasta that's my dream almost tags vi as well during the fight um but this right here is we're gonna get a lot of this in season two i'd imagine mm-hmm i would hope that's gonna be about i'd imagine um yeah and uh this is i think i was trying to point out but this is the thing that jinx doesn't if i'd seen she bites her lip but she's they're also just having loads of fun as well um which is not what vi would what would like to see and it's obviously that uh that that pink glint there in her eyes mm-hmm mm-hmm but yeah katlin's knocked out and kidnapped and the firelight steal the jam stone with it as well um yeah this happens look at that fight doctor guy look at her just touching that shit and then um this is the thing does she have the power to be able to kick a guy like that over it's like i'm i'm i guess if everyone gets these basically supernatural capabilities i i don't i guess that's just part of this world that people can behave like this i think um i think they do work to justify it here and there but uh that jinx yes because it's essentially just superhuman speed being able to just scrawny pull things out and put things on other things and the time that it happens it's just superhuman speed because meanwhile you have a vi is partially exhausted from brawling the fuck out of this one guy like i fully believe that that just happened but with jinx it feels much more like we're relying on a little bit of tune physics yeah well i guess that's what i was about to say we're talking about like an animation how like what are we doing when we're trying to figure out i guess like how uh fast people can move or how heavy things are or how things operate i think the show does a half and half good job of making it grounded but then also like jumping into a bit of craziness with it uh and so like someone's saying we should more justify the jinx i guess so i'm trying to say that joe rogan punches like shotgun blasts and he's five six he's always so like really much he's also huge jack that's like comparing jinx his body to joe rogan jinx is explicitly scrawny like very scrawny yeah i'm just imagining joe rogan in a fucking jinx wake now there's gonna be memes of her face on his body yeah or maybe his face on her body i don't know yeah um but yeah uh jinx gets slashed on her leg by someone getting a shot and and i i just like the fact that she like screams and then in response aims the gun at him charges it up and he just looks fucking terrified like oh god what have i done like i probably shouldn't have just tried to go for that easy strike uh vai gets knocked out because she's distracted by watching jinx yeah watching her like beat the shit out of someone with the mini gun which is kind of fucked up yeah um but uh jinx gets distracted from executing the kill by them picking vai up um and they slam like a staff to the ground and just makes like the smoky bomb shit smoke clears and you get like what feels to be like i don't know the closest you get for jinx being normal to be like vai and then when she realizes she's gone meaning she can't fucking confirm whether or not this shit is all real if she's being lied to or not she just the the the screen all flips out with the scratches and everything she just shouts no loses it oh which yeah uh again i was just fully on board with her being like ah it sucks because you don't even know if you can trust vai but she's just been kidnapped now so what does that mean it's like i don't know it's yeah more really good expression work is the smoke clears and her face goes back to you know the the more vulnerable expression she had earlier in the scene around vai and then yeah when she's gone just just shit man like um but yeah that's episode six we're at two hours of act too too bad how was that for um the fact that it came out in acts like what was the feeling with this being the end of act two in terms of a cliffhanger um they did a good job of building the hype like i definitely wanted to see what happened next a lot of things gotta are gonna line up a lot of characters and a lot of places i mean i'm really glad that i got to watch it like a minute after this i was gonna say you don't count ranks because you got to watch it whenever you want i meant a theo i think is the only person here maybe das but you had you were literally not allowed to watch anymore until yeah i was just sitting here like counting down the day until the next dot were there weeks between the um yeah it was a week right one week between each act that's not i was a little late to the showing and everything like that by the time i had watched it all the episodes are out well i think uh i wonder if like netflix is gonna actually try and do that with more of that stuff now that it seems like if you want to get people to keep talking about your show that staggered releases is a good way to do it i'd be fine with them releasing it weekly because i would just talk the phone just talk talk with everybody there was a fun element of the discourse yeah um definitely yeah the fresh episode that everybody could talk about all at once at the same time being behind you know and you know it gets talked about for a while instead of a kind of you know the conversation sort of gets stamped out a lot what did you think of the entire show it's pretty good yeah i think it is hard for people to talk about their thoughts on an entire show rather than yeah look how long we talked about boba fair uh yeah i mean we talked about it for long enough that when i we compiled it what i shouldn't say we you you know compile all the episodes into our one it was funny like in the life hours in the live chat so it was like wait so what is this video and someone said freaking compiled all of the videos into ones like what yeah yeah that was yeah that was pretty funny who told you this um anyway we open on episode seven friends really cool with a music video reminds me of infamous oh this to music videos fucking pretty i love it so much it rags what do you think of this music video nice nothing at all okay nothing at all violence from the doggo yes it's nothing yeah well that's fine we'll just we'll just keep going um uh yeah i think it's pretty neat um the quick i guess tonal introduction to who the fire lights are it's just like the compilation i'm back what you're back i'm back yes what do you think of this intro rags um i i'm not a fan it's not i just don't i don't care for it myself um that's it it's it's just uh i just don't care for it it's i don't know it feels too i don't like it too urban and hip hoppy which seems like it just doesn't mix with a lot of the other stuff i don't it's not my thing i just didn't care for it yeah i uh i like the art but i have to agree i i i didn't know what the hell it was doing honestly it kind of reminded me of that that show devil man cry baby where there's like there's this character for like several episodes for some reason he's just like rapping for like two minutes and it leads nowhere and i'm not even sure what the fuck they're doing and it kind of reminded me of that i think it's fairly clear what they're doing with i was gonna say but you i keep talking so you go ahead nah that's that's about it the lyrics like give explicit reference to like what the fire lights are about i'm sure the lyrics are well it's just like the intro lyrics like i i get how the lyrics are part of it but like stylistically i just i it's not my thing i didn't care what is it what does it mean though if like the lyrics are totally appropriate and you just don't like the method by which the lyrics are being conveyed i guess it means that i like the lyrics but i don't like the tone in which it's conveyed i i that's that seems pretty well i guess what i'm saying is like the most appropriate genre to represent the fire lights so considering like well yeah because like i'm not a i'm not too into hip hop and rap and stuff but i can super appreciate this is pretty damn awesome i mean i appreciate it i i i'm not quite sure that i unless it applies to a lot of the music in the show like if we're gonna eat you know if it's like oh it feels too modern it's like well pretty much all of the songs are not like fitting like a victorian era thing like you would hear in Dishonored or something so do we apply the same one to like every single other song that i'd have to i'd have to see the examples individually i don't know what Dishonored is i guess my cross-reference would be uh the club music in um episode what is episode four or five our reintroduction to the undersea uh i think the song is called dirty little animals if that fits i think this fits i really did little animals' lyrics really inform shimmers effect on the world as well i think it's really good because the the lyrics like i mentioned before are kind of similar to playground from episode one in a way but very different in style tone and focus yeah which is indicative of what silco's effect has been i definitely like those visuals though it definitely gives me it reminds me a lot of infamuses uh cutscenes yeah definitely i ground the visuals they're good visuals i'm just did anybody here play infamous or was it just me i played infamous second son but i never played the first one i played the first one when it first came out i have basically no memory of it oh man i i fucking i adore infamous i love that game it's uh i that that game is super cool and super duper underrated barely anybody talks about it when they talk about cool playstation three games game had a great tone it's really leaned into like the comic book sort of a vibe but a little bit darker um it had the binary morality system uh which that aspect of it wasn't great but i did like some of the like storytelling choices that came of of it um yeah that's that's a cool game and it's just nice to be reminded of it every now and then yeah they should they should they should re-release that um like playstation i guess it has to be in playstation five which i don't have but they should really you'll get it eventually give it time give a few decades well they need to do bloodborne first okay can we just haul all releases until they do blood on pc yeah then we can all just get on with our fucking lives just give that game a frame rate like okay right um wait wait wait so uh in chat disco elysium is getting an adaptation from amazon is that true i mean we are we are getting a lot of video game adaptations like the cuphead show just came out like yesterday or like two days ago apparently we're getting a bioshock tv show there's going to be a fallout series on bioshock one's going to be terrible oh wow so we have we have very much entered into that era of video game adaptation it's really funny that a game that a lot of stupid people on the internet shit on for being communist propaganda is getting an ad from amazon wait i mean that game has a great art style um that game has a fucking beautiful art style i i highly recommend that game i mentioned it like a few streets people call bioshock communist propaganda no uh disco elysium okay okay i was i was confused for a second they're like wait this is new i mean someone called someone said that by someone said that ryan was an ardent socialist or so a socialist uh someone who is right i thought you guys would have picked that up it's all about you know getting the value of your own way that would never not be funny so anyway arcane anyway i would press on with after that really cool intro well i i like the opening conversation it's uh again like just taking advantage of the dialogues you've got um katlyn immediately says i knew it was a mistake to trust you and then vi basically just says the same in reverse like fucking trust you either and then she's like well you walked us into two of silco's traps and she says this one isn't silco we'd be dead already if it was and she just goes oh very nice what were you gonna tell me about your lunatic sister i just i just like that katlyn so straightforward at this point she's captured so well she's got nothing to lose sick of it yeah and then uh instead of answering that vi is just like oh yeah what what the fuck's the glowing stone and then katlyn's just like and she's like that's what i thought it's like yeah they both got things to keep for now there's no reason to give the problem is like katlyn didn't make it about the stone at all so it's just like yeah it's kind of true that i was here for more than i'd let on but i mean you know you're prisoner it's kind of hard to argue it's just like yeah okay fine we both thought bit a hundred percent honest um so yeah echo uh is introduced he's back he takes off the the the mask um and you're like oh yeah uh i feel like a lot of people would have guessed that was him at this point because even for the reason alone there's like where's that kid been the kid the white yeah that's he been i for a couple episodes when i when we got this reveal for a couple episodes i've been wondering is he gonna come back where's he because we're running we're running out of episodes here for him to kind of come back where it's what's he been up to now you know without his dad so what's what's happening here where are we get when are we gonna get him he has been here since episode four it's just that he's been messed up so as an avid echo enjoyer there's like slight aspects to his design or motifs of his that let you recognize him like for the first time we see him as the firelight leader he's got his stopwatch swinging around and a spoiler i guess in the game echo has time shenanigans um there's also the red scarf thing he has which he has in the game that was like clue number two and also the the kind of baton thing he has it's not the same one as he has in the game but that's the kind of weapon he uses that was actually what gave it to me i was like pretty sure echo has like a big sticky hits people with it looks rather like right build it's like i'm pretty sure that's echo i'm gonna give him the one he gets from the game because the one he has in the game is like the hand of a clock he stole from a clock tower in piltu neat feel like uh when you think about the fact that he had that clock is like right so there's a really cool example of uh incorporating an element that is more recognizable from like the original source material material ball material and then trying to contextualize it and not not put too much emphasis on it you know a little bit more indeed it is a stick like weapon uh so i meant the clock but the clock is a stick like weapon yeah it's a stick like weapon uh echo believes that vi is basically as evil as powder and um he assumed he just explains that yes like so you're working for silco and i love the from his pov there's plenty to sort of run with on that front but from vise pov that is such a fucking absurd claim she just says fuck you like i love that it's such a straightforward like why would you even suggest that you idiot like i of course i don't work for silco killed vanda like what the hell and it's just like well i don't know what's going on fucking jinx you know another thingy from the game the whatever it is he's keeping the gemstone in like heavily resembles his z drive from the game people don't know what that is yeah the z drive is his time travel device where's the z stand for i don't know xyme xyme damn it just yeah i got xyme travel um yeah he says that he's been following her since she's gotten out and uh he like refers to it as like what the fuck are you doing showing an enforcer around um the lanes like that's a problem and then she's just like you never talked to me at all like you always punch first and then he's like who'd i learn that from and it's like oh my man's demeanor has changed yeah she points that out growing up yeah because he says people change and it's like obviously referring to himself his theory is about vi and of course powder to jinx because dialogue well it's important for these characters as well because those formative years you know that they stand apart especially for echo he was a little youngster he really was and you get a big blast of that when uh she says you never used to stand up to me and then she manages to get i don't know how she got her cuffs off uh but she did yeah uh and obviously like he's and you still block with your face yeah it's like that one gangle up in her personal space and everything like jesus well yeah and and stay on a personal space no it's you stay on a personal space i like that when um i know that's contributing congratulations to the climb oh anyway is that a simpson's thing or plod me more plod me more you know what shackard hear that but you couldn't it came through on ob s we didn't go through on uh discord so shackard hear me clapping you but that's what that's oh i see okay i see i see i i believe you chat don't reveal the truth okay thanks anyway so yeah uh she like takes off the cuffs and uh as he's realizing from the sounds of it dropping he's like shocked because obviously this should be like oh shit we might have to fight and then she just hugs him uh which is which is a nice moment uh because of what we know about them from those earlier episodes which episodes one through three man are they important for just making everything that much more meaningful oh yeah uh where am i going here but yeah uh he's he's trying to maintain the fucking tough demeanor but the thing is she knows she's known him in a time where he was literally like a fucking i even know how old he was at the time i think he's the same age as jinx like overall and i think that's quite important as a moment for his character because like he is just a kid playing at gang boss like even if he's a very calm crime lord yeah kind of uh so yeah and advise like not gonna put up with that bullshit she knows who he is it's like oh good stuff and they you know it didn't even take that long for them to pull off that payoff if you consider the time in episode three compared to this but it's like it becomes that that meaningful uh so back over to singed and victor um and he just has some fucking glorious lines the favorite for me obviously being nature has made us intolerant to change but fortunately we have the ability to change our nature and it's like yeah all the things you can think about what he's referring to with that jesus and uh yeah victor says will it work on plants and said it's just like you'll not hear about the plants i know the look of a doomed man yeah and he says if you take this path they will despise you which is like then game fans just getting their giblets tickled you know i'm making my my giblets just talking about him because just everything he says there's so much to read into it but nothing to like it doesn't go anywhere particularly just yet other than like implied potential roots but he talks like he has a long and storied history like yeah he's been around full of wisdom but like not even evil wisdom just ruthless wisdom just evil wisdom he's the kind of person you'd want to be a sith lord instead of this cartoonish bullshit you get like someone who's like i'm not here because i like pain i'm here because it's the best way to achieve my goals um and yen he says uh love and legacy of the sacrifices we make for progress uh another great line is i really like that in terms of what it says about his priority wow it says exactly what his priorities are but uh just he is completely discarded the notion of like reputation and honor and glory it isn't it's entirely dedicated to science there's a comment about the ends that he believes important there's a contrast there as well with heimerdinger and victor to an extent because of the conversation those two had about legacy specifically yeah i think it was all about legacy well and in a sense heimerdinger maybe even sets up this point from singed being that he didn't disagree with victor and victor said i'll be forgotten and singed is saying sacrifice that and you can live sacrifice what being forgotten like it doesn't even matter you know like the legacy of victor right now doesn't mean a lot compared to being able to extend his life uh at least i think that's his pov and yeah singed actually makes reference to he says the that's why i parted ways with heimerdinger which means those two have a history as well and he takes the vial and says jace will understand yeah which you know you don't even need to know anything third party or any way just like hmm i wonder if that line will become more interesting as more seasons are made then we cut to jace who's doing buff big boy things holy moly he's got a big old body hammer boy hammer lord um yeah he's uh he's making something something something's up but uh mel comes along and she interprets his uh action here as one of essentially coping like why is he why is he so mad what's going on and he's like he's coping yes at first it's like oh because because you know the stress of being a leader the stress of all this stuff happening and then she's like no what is it really and he's like i betrayed my fucking boss and i was like yay they should have been acknowledgement of that good stuff um it's tough it's tough tough flumes i think he says he was his mentor and he betrayed him it's like i like that there's no attempt to you know a shield exactly what the action was he was successful it's all done now there's no point in lying about it it's like yeah i betrayed him and it worked and that sucks um and she says it's your time now jace no more red tape meaning he's essentially replaced timer dinga as they're all council members but one of them gets to be the head of the council and apparently that's him now yep which is kind of amazing considering where he started in this story yeah yeah uh but that hey he's got the he's got the he's got like some of the most insane leverage that yeah you would ever have um like hey i'm the person who put us on the map as a global shipping lane and i'm only just getting started so here have some actual magic yeah no she says in relation to him making more thorough decisions about what's happening next she says i'll stall the council in the meantime try not to lose your nuts holding a nut in your hand and um i saw people there was someone who said that that was like some of the cringiest dialogue in the whole show i really don't feel that way because i think this bell being a little she's being fun but yeah she's also referring to don't lose your resolve like you're on the right path don't think you're not because she's still manipulating him yeah she's literally saying don't lose your fucking conviction all right do not misplace your almonds jace exactly but she says it in a funny jokey kind of way uh which is probably indicative of how relationship is changing with him even even without the manipulation i think it's just kind of good advice because flip-flopping is uh not the greatest of moves yeah it's when you're in a position like this and it's definitely not a good idea when you're trying to do good the joke wasn't good though what joke it was hardly it was it was a joke really it's just a i don't even know yeah i don't even think i wouldn't elevate it to joke level it's more like like she's sitting in her in her chambers oh man he's really gonna love this oh he'd better love this oh my god it's a fucking banger jay's wait i really hope he he drops one of those nuts like she walks in and she sees it pull off like yes yes what if he doesn't and she just like while he's not watching knocks one off hateful oh don't lose your nuts yes he says it too quickly he's like what she goes uh it's uh yeah you drop this it was a thing in the moment it's fine you dropped it he's like oh nothing oh no um we find out that things are getting fucked by the bridge is closing and savika suggests that marcus is rolling on them or flipping and i think because silco does not want it to come across at all as though he's not in complete control of marcus he just says um no he's doing everything i told him to do um because it you know silco can't be sure of marcus he's already said that that's the case he can already tell marcus is waning here um but anyway he's like i gotta go find jinx and explain the fucks going on and savika says um i've got it more in common with cave lice than jinx but i didn't see eye to eye with my old man either and silco just goes and like it's it's such a like hey she just says he's really fucking done right now yeah he's so in a fucking mood and she says she'll come to you when she's ready and he's like all right uh but the the kem baron has scheduled an assembly so that's an unexpected line from savika i think she'll come to you when she's ready like savika um but it's just like i wonder why did you say that what a hmm like i know why she said it but like why like she would the does she have any past experience with wayward children does she have so what why are you offering this insight you know so the the line she says after it is that she'll come to you when she's ready that's what she did with her dad right i mean yeah maybe i if so i can't remember i just no no that is the line she says she'll come to you when she's ready in reference to jinx to silco because she said that's how she used to deal with her dad that oh gotcha gotcha gotcha all right it's it's two fold of like a genuine piece of advice coming from probably a place of compassion and also can you stop thinking about jinx for like five seconds we have business yeah and i think that when you give the show maybe a rewatch as well you can get on the first time around savika is just more than muscle um but she's mostly treated as muscle by everybody um and i i honestly think they're going to elevate her to the leader and in season two is a really good chance of that happening yeah i i mean we're getting to it but her interactions with the mob bosses and i i really like savika uh savika as a character she's kind of one of my favorites so then we got it's like that archetype rough that rough archetype done in a really awesome and interesting way yeah uh so let me get a jinx scene i'm a fan of these scenes and it opens on a shot of a little fly thing a little green fly thing in her workshop um which i think not exactly you know we we'd be planting those flags but it seems like they're in her workshop you see more of them as time goes on as well it's just like sort of a through line happening here interesting another flag yeah done did get planted so what is happening in this scene fly things on her desk this is this is a scene to me that i think a lot of people could be like ew that was just a holly quinn scene and it's like gotta pay more attention all right so this scene is jinx trying to figure out what the fuck just happened and it is entirely chaotic this whole scene is fucking chaos um talking to milo is is giving her all kinds of shitty advice and she's aggressively trying to figure out what the fuck happened um you're saying i didn't lose her they took her and uh i think you hear a whisper saying she's it with an enforcer you saw it remember her name yeah and jinx says she was there for me and then yeah when they say remember her name she's like why would i remember her name she's a stupid top sider and then there's a pause and then she says katlyn she finishes off stapling up her wound and laughing like a maniac also when that's the thing it's like we've got that that is the scene but there's just a little other thing going on in here that i absolutely love yeah i think i know what i think why like might it be the same thing i'm thinking that why i showed you and j specifically this because it's something that i love about this scene so she's um she's got big big old insecurities about being weak that's a there's a big thing for her alongside all the abandonment stuff but this scene we're doing that again um she's got a wound to fucking fix she grabs a little staple gun i'm gonna show it now hang on just uh oh careful for copyright i'm seeing it so she grabs it up loads it god damn it sorry folks this is awkward and scuffed but that's the way i have to do it looks at herself gets it ready it's all angry and flimpy um i don't know just just just saying random words to give a bit of a gap there we go does the first staple and looks at herself in the mirror she's fucking hurt in pain that's that and then you see her look back in frustration at the at the wound like fuck like she looked at herself in pain and then look back annoyed because that's weakness obviously yeah um she does the second one and again in pain like it's hard to ignore the fact that this fucking painful uh put copyright up again and then looks again at the window like like it's the reverse this time like she knows she's in pain and she looks at herself to confirm it like it's like she's constantly aware of how fucking shit she is um and then she gets really frustrated like because this is happening again ignore all the dialogue and the whispers right now just pay attention to the expressions and the the staples next one goes in and she likes this is the kind of face you make when you just struggle into fucking ignore the pain it's fine yeah i'm dealing with this fine and then she does this expression of um oh it's not anything anyway it's just like whatever see like like trying to roll her eyes at the at the at the idea of it getting better at controlling herself um and then this expression straight after it's like she's like losing her mind because what is even happening here you're trying to pretend that it's not painful to come across to yourself as last week are you fucking insane like what the hell is happening yes and so you get these expressions of her just and everything's flipping out and she's like uh what am i even doing and then the last one that one goes in and she's like sighing chilling out that's in the moment of the scene where she remembers it's katlyn and then you get the best one which is she puts the last staple in and fucking cackles it's almost like we're going through a little bit of an arc here like just just laughing at the pain now um she's got a lot going on so the thing that i was gonna it's not as much detail to it as that um the the eye that's covered by the shattered part of the uh mirror is the same eye that's covered that uh silco's messed up eye the same one or at least on the same side if you keep in mind that mirrors reflect the image yeah um i really like how like this is i can't recall the time before this that you could actually make out the words that milo's like ghost voice no i think this is the first time that we hear them properly uh and we hear them again it's still tough to make it out i would say yeah but yeah there are there are words you can get out of it that are questions she's responding to which i think says a lot about her mental state yeah that what that he's getting louder yeah he's louder than he was before and i guess it's like just in case you hadn't noticed she is having conversations with like entities of some sort i feel like a whole throughout the whole show a lot of people watch her scenes and they're like yeah i get it she's nuts but i'm just like there's so much more happening um well it is just the thing this is animation so like all of those expressions were deliberate like very deliberate someone sat there and thought about those and took time to create them multiple people um it's all on purpose and i think knowing that it's all on purpose it's like hmm you know like there's a lot to read into uh all of these disagree on the interpretation that uh whatever this is a small wound instead it seems jeek jinx is almost losing consciousness definitely not losing consciousness in this scene she's getting more active getting more and more into this i mean that doesn't surprise me either she's not going to be like the pain from a staple into your hand is annoying as hell i wouldn't say that's going to make you knock out that's nowhere near enough um it's your pussy it's an open dash on the leg that's got to hurt like a bitch but like the progression is her wanting to not tolerate the fact that hurts and you know like i said she's trying to brush it off that i think she realizes how absurd the situation is that she's trying to lie to she knows it's painful there's no brushing it off either you it doesn't it's like there's nobody here but that's not true it's not that there isn't nobody here that's what's so good about it yes that's why it's working yeah uh yeah because she's got all that going on while thinking about did my my sister's alive first of all holy fuck and she still likes me but does she though because she was with the enforcer and savika said that she was here with the enforcer for the gemstone but she came there for me like oh it's that poor brain of yours yeah if all these people talking down to you try to tell you different things and you see all those conflicting things happening to you it's like i don't know what's real i don't know who's lying who isn't and also i'm hurt and i'm hurting and i'm trying to lie to myself and are they lying to me or are they not i don't know what's she does never she never receives a consistent line of information that is never in doubt like it's always but wait a minute what about that hmm what about this yeah and she has a friendly manifestation of doubt in her subconscious that's always talking to her about all of these doubts she has yeah really nice thanks my love hard disagree she's definitely being shown to nearly pass out at the end of the last staple no she's just relaxing because she's done the job and she's remembered the name these are two things she wanted to do yeah like that the stapling is done yeah she's just relaxing it's not passing out um look at that flying thing up there oh what about Jicks's like motif going in the music which others like discordant violins oh yeah beautiful discord violins yeah discord violins i like discord violins um so yeah uh vi get shown echoes sanctuary and she's like you built all this and he says after vanda silco filled the lanes with shimmer um and everyone who came here was an addict or a victim and they needed somewhere safe to start again which is like oh man echo you're a legend huh you're trying to fix the lanes yourself and he even says like in relation to the mural that uh all the people who they've lost over the years uh the kill count is much more to silco than it is to the enforcers at mural is a really important part of echo's character it's an incredibly significant thing in his material long before the game uh long before the show not long before the game the game whoa now we're getting into the deep lore because like in in the teaser for him when he was showing up he was defending a mural it didn't look exactly like this of course because it's changed um from a weird chem monster thingy uh and the stinger of the whole thing is that in defeating the big thingy attacking him uh he ends up destroying the mural so when this time travel he goes back to do the entire thing again because protecting that mural is like more important than not getting the shit kicked out of him again like multiple times also they're asking them incredibly highly how can i comment on the pain of being stapled i've stapled myself twice in my life by accident really what a great what a great way to be able to dunk on someone fucking painful for sure but let's just say i'll have you know i was wired after stapling myself it's a sharp shooting pain uh and then you'll like get this fucking thing out of me i wound up with a staple through my finger he's no possible way he knows what this feels like i did it twice actually yeah first one was like primary school where i was just stapling paper together just because that's typically what you do and i remember going like staple staple ah it's like what the fuck is happening it's like yep you just stapled a piece of paper to your thumb like nice uh now this is a part of me i'm a cyborg that's great does that leave scars because i have a school station re-scar uh that it's just two really small dots in this i don't think i can see it on my thumb yeah i didn't i didn't keep a scar from mine staple is a deadly weapon i sliced my finger open with a like a tool we were using an art class once and still have that scar me that's fun i sliced my arm open with a box cutter in while in work this sounds like a suicide setup doesn't it but it really wasn't the scar for that looks cool but uh yeah i was just opening boxes and i slit and then i saw blood dripping and i was like wait what and that's how like shallow the wound was i couldn't even feel it um anyway guys you couldn't feel it could you cut your arm off oh my god oh that's annoying yeah another thing he's uh echo says is um if i'd been with you guys that day things might have been different um just like oh man i don't think so you're a little cherub you probably would have been more you might have died i says that so yeah i think if i said you probably would have been a ghost a spooky ghost puppet ghost ball um he shows her the mural in response to her saying i know my sister i can reach her and i think what he's trying to show her is that the people in the mural are dead gone and powered as one of them yeah um yeah and he says uh your sister works with him not because she has to but because she wants to i'm sorry but that's who she is now it's not easy for vi to hear i don't think nope i think it's easy for echo to say she certainly doesn't even consider it um yeah then we get a pretty there's so many good scenes in this uh the we're at the bridge and it would appear that victor has been held and uh jace comes personally and he's like what the fuck are you doing do you know bad it looks for me to set this bridge shit and then have my own partner break it and victor is literally like i like you ordered this like that's it it's not even about apologizing or trying to explain you just like you ordered this why would you do that you dumbass um yeah and he says uh there are people down there hell bent on destroying us and then um he's like yeah i went there for help and he's like help from from the under city the person you went to to help they're dangerous that he just goes i'm from the other city i'm yeah it's like and then he gets up and he's like i'm the fuck out of here now some real cringe posting from jace yeah you're gonna lose thecriber man that's a victor unsubscribed uh yeah great great little moment that's probably gonna make jace think maybe a little harder on it's like damn that's true whoops um you can see how he would have arrived at this point his experience in the city has been getting bombed and attacked like it's easy to really perhaps a prejudice like this i suppose the impact is on his character i think is most clear when like just after he stands there and says i have posted cringe and then looks down at his feet yeah he knows like he knows the cringe no i'm getting ratio is like it's easy to it's easy to fall into traps like that victor quote tweets him and it just sets off a chain reaction he quote tweets him the sanet chief is this you this you this year uh victor was looking at his cane there for a second noticing that yeah the cane there right at the bottom that used to be his cane do you see that he's looking at it oh wait you mean at the near the beginning of the scene at the beginning of the scene yeah he's looking at his uh crotch and then sort of looking at the cane pot you mean that like the handle almost for the yeah wow i think it's thinking about that used to be cane that i would just behold now look at it well that's half of it the other half is probably that he knows that there's shimmer in that right now yeah yeah um but it's it's all it's it's yeah he's working on but the love was there and uh jay says did you get help and he said no he said nature is resistant to this sort of tampering just like hmm that's not what happened in that scene you're a lawyer that'd be really funny but what this all was like so that's actually not what uh sin just did he actually did provide help so that is a plot hole that's what your critiques are like more no yeah i'm melting uh yeah then jay sees um they some some people throw molotov which is just obviously bolstering the um his perspective which is going to get super bolstered in the beginning of the next episode we'll get there um but yeah i really feel like it's this is the point in the show where she's like fuck jace your life sucks right now you've got so many he's probably the most powerful person in this world at least as we know it like within piltover and zon but like that's part of the problem he can make significant changes but he's just not sure which ones to commit to as well as like he was fully invested in this thanks to his relationship with victor who's struggling to like those those two's relationships getting stressed as well and then it's like this whole bridge thing was that even a good idea like i'm not 100 sure and then the stress of what he did to heimerdinger a lot of people like to say that jace is kind of meh um i question is wrong to say that he's got a lot going on i only said that at the beginning wrong people say it what was that you just said jay i said at the beginning not the end jace is a really interesting story of an idealistic person trying to do good true and then we get the i just remember all the villain scene basically all the villains meet up and have a chat yeah i was totally expecting to at least recognize one of them from the game but i was like nope i was expecting a few different people here uh from like either the game or the card game it's just such a prime scene it's like oh we can just put like characters from the game in there like people are gonna like that but i didn't do it they do their own stuff disgusting gross um put it back in the box you get uh they basically make it clear that things are getting fucked up by that bridge situation uh everyone's checked and they go over it's really hard to do trading and um silco is like jinx will take care of it and they're like yeah well what we've heard jinx is fucking off her leash right now and uh you're like you're losing control basically and then their little air conditioning machine stops and it's like oh maybe it's a little too cold in here maybe they want to warm up nice et cetera of them that's nice and then uh savika's fucking around with a tank in the back and starts releasing a gas and they're all stuck oh no and he tosses out some uh some gas masks and they all pop them right on while giving another just silco level quality speech about how he's the one as much as we've heard a lot about how much he destroyed the lanes with shimmer he's the one that apparently made the air much more breathable um he's the one that he's brought it higher than it previously was in many ways and he's frustrated i love the libraries like you've grown complacent and fat like under these good times and he's you've forgotten the powers of left it's uh it's just it reflects a lot of things right a lot of things we're a bunch of people that were helped by a silco are now like you're not good enough he's like how the fuck did you even get here remember that um yeah there's a question of how is silco immune to the to the gas because like even savika puts on a mask all i've got for that is that he's got an infection from the thing from the water i think it's highly important water talks it says you don't recognize it this isn't i don't think this is actually gas this is the air they had to breathe before which i guess you could call that like gas but that seems to be his implication there yeah that's just so co was there at the time that this was the air at the time it could be yeah it could just be that he's used to it um yeah i think i think that's the point uh finn is trying to make when he you know doesn't go for a mask because silco doesn't have a mask yeah it's oh yeah he's he's definitely trying to come across as though this doesn't bother him either but it's clear that he can't handle it collapses and he starts begging with his hands the yeah and silco knows that he's not gonna be able to put up with this for very long and he's just and like the the mask is ready to be taken but finn doesn't want to have to take it yeah uh oh what uh i got robots is that me or that seems to be your buddy seems to be fine on my end yeah uh okay button i might have something's up hello hello hello hello let me check out something now i'm still on the green i don't know i don't know i think no rags is having the thing again oh by rags he's just gonna talk as long as he wants to right does that all the time we'll go to singapore see if that does anything welcome to singapore hey we're back i was okay so that wasn't just me then well no it's not horrible for me oh no oh wait no no it's fine calm down someone in chat said that um silco does eventually breathe from the mask it's like i only i don't even know that he only does that once and it seems more so like a look i can breathe with this you can't because you're on the floor this is nice yeah that's what i assumed um yeah he puts them all in their place and it's a great fucking performance and it's like one of the 10 problems silco's got to solve it's just like a life of silco so good meeting before uh the chat went all tizmy i was curious because i don't think i was i think i was paying attention to all the other things that were happening but our boss man our raiden boss man guy um with the with the mechanical lower jaw does it ever animate does it ever change or does it is it always a static piece of metal when it seems to always be metal also also his name is fin apparently yeah i believe he is also a fan i can't remember who right um i don't think i don't think it moves as an object itself obviously it moves with his jaw right yeah yeah yeah but it all keeps together yeah i was i was curious because in games that's a thing that happens a lot if you have armor skins and what it stretches and bends around the character yeah like it's like it's a piece of flesh elastic yeah yeah um something cool that i don't know if anybody else noticed the before and after of the background in this scene back hit out oh the things are dead plants are with him that's cool that's quick that's really awesome though i think i don't know if it's on the i think on the top left those plants look a lot like uh picture plants and they lure in tiny critters insects and then they get stuck in the sap and then the plant eats them it's a carnivorous plant neat so i don't know if that's uh supposed to mean anything particular but i don't know um something like gas acts very fast it's um we just have to assume that it's directly poisonous more so to like flowers and shit um and it and it just sucks to breathe as well for the people gotta get the right thing on the screen there we go um but yeah silco says we came from a world where there was never enough to go around and that is why we fight uh very annoyed with these people understandably so moving on get to visit new people get off my ass i'm trying to deal with oh why uh mel's little friend is talking to her about some stuff they mentioned um this threat from the under city makes us look vulnerable and then mel says it's too soon jace isn't ready and i assume she's referring to gotta push him a little further before pulling the old let's make weapons card which they're gonna try soon um because jace has been against it for a long time but we're getting there in terms of convincing him and that's what i think mel's goal is but during the scene she's also handed a letter with the noxious symbol on it spooky who knows what that'll do um yeah i actually like this interaction right so this this clearly a kid hands uh katelyn a bowl of water after she's just been had a mass taken off and it binds kind of removed and she uh she like looks at the kid then she like pushes all day frustrated look and hits it out of his head like that's what i'm supposed to do i think because this is rude yeah like because yeah yeah that i could imagine echo just being like oh fucking hell it's just water yeah it's just a matter of vibing like it's chill we're chill let's go have a little walk around stop everyone oh oh moller do you do you like the kids fingernails oh yeah you're right i did i did spot it i didn't think to mention it um wait what about fingernails no i'm curious i'll show it with yeah he's got red and black um dick or yeah they look oh because i guess looking at here i thought it was orange and black like halloween which is that's why i hesitated i was like it might be it could be like a fated out red or an orange i think i think it probably is an orange actually kids just going trick or treat slaps it out of his hand well he's wearing a mask too so yeah he's got oh yeah it's all coming together on halloween uh um but then we get a scene of silco almost like depressingly is setting up his device and it like i always interpreted that as him being like oh i wish jinx would do it for me but okay but it turns out she is not like this no she is here it's like oh shit because he's been looking waiting for him to talk to him for a while she's very aggressive and unhappy right now obviously he's gonna be a little bit worried about dealing with this but it's just so funny that he just dealt with all of his fucking lieutenants being dicks now he's got to do this it's like okay let's do it um so yeah this we can really do to summarize the scene is just silco reassured so that he didn't lie he didn't know and that uh he tells her very explicitly vi is not here for you she's here for the gemstone for sure and that uh we need to finish i think he says we need to finish the weapon in this scene um which does pretty much convince her but there is just i express fully enough this ended up in the uh one of the boba fat videos just the expression change in this bit where uh she's she seems sure of her position and that she's kind of enjoying causing him pain because she's she's certain of what he's done but he does do a really good job of convincing her that she's mistaken which it's so unfortunate because it's like a lot of what he's saying is true a lot of it isn't um and it's just what i added to it yeah his her psyche falling apart because she really doesn't know who to trust um but yeah uh how her face changes here from like almost rage and uh he starts talking about do you remember what happened how i found you i took you in i know what else was and yeah she just drops from anger to just sad and contemplative i guess and they do a fucking excellent job of making it clear that's exactly what's happening all those eyebrow movements and eye movements the little the little blinkies like she's trying to hold back tears yeah with all the blinkies distortion effect from her mind being what it is um yeah she's having a lot of trouble here uh and that's the thing um if you remove vice like who's the next person that gets straight to sort of a jinx's core it's like silco is next up because he's essentially been her dad so she's not um able to stay as confident with this and obviously she's uh she's questioning it and then i think the scene's way of saying she believes silco is that she she does the uh injection but then runs off yeah she's still struggling but she does take what he said to be true essentially which is not good in a sense of as a viewer you're like great now she thinks of i really doesn't care about it but um not enough evidence yet surely so you know maybe something good can still happen yeah i think he says she and the enforcer are back for the stone not for you i am your family not them and i need you now more than ever rives what did you think of jinx at this point like what were you thinking in terms of where she'd be heading where she'd be heading i don't know at this point i'm still at this point i just i don't know i could see it going either way but and and i wouldn't be surprised if it went either way because either way would be pretty well justified she is there definitely struggling to figure out what she wants and what she needs to do yeah it's it's not like i was it's not like for instance i was watching a role in emirate film and i was i was i was i knew in my head everything that would happen just because i just knew what he does and i like you're gonna die you're gonna do that that's gonna come back later to be this that's it that's it and you're just kind of calling it all out and watching it all fall into place eventually but not in like the clever oh they're setting this thing up so this is gonna have is what's more of those eye-rolly kinds of you're just following your formula checklist just following a beat regardless of whether it makes sense to do that yeah but here it's definitely an aspect of we could go multiple ways and both are pretty well informed so uh we just don't know just don't know um so yeah we got a pretty cool scene with katelyn getting introduced to the sanctuary and obviously um she's not quite gonna swallow everything that is being put out there that i could have put that better um about the state of the world because she has a very different perspective for example uh echo is talking about how the silco pays enforcers to hunt us and then katelyn is like that's not true even we know it's like well i mean oh well but of course she's an enforcer so she's like what the fuck she's not aware of any of the corruption um and she says if the enforcers have become more aggressive then the gemstone is why and uh echo says yeah but we can beat silco with the gemstone and she says that's just gonna make things worse she says if you keep this the cycle of violence will never stop the city needs healing more than i ever realized let me help you but sure it's pretty fundamental for the whole show i am oh yeah fundamental for the character as well yeah this is big for for katelyn she's realized very thoroughly now that stuff's going on she's fully out of the sheltered life that she was trying to leave and like yeah she's seen the real world that people tried to keep from her and oh man is it fucked and i think when she gives that sort of speech about understanding that the city needs help and that's her only goal you have vi in the background staring at her quite longingly uh i think at first she's kind of with echo in the gosh darn top-siders then as katelyn talks she starts getting a little bit like oh wait hmm and then she has a face where i'm trying to get to it but these things to me are little bits from the show being like yeah what might be going on you just saying am i like what i'd so really like that echoes just not just hands it over it's like oh yeah okay i trust you now because that would already break his character we know it for as of now just like okay you make a good point but i'm coming with you and i hand it over because i don't fully trust you yet yeah it's satisfying because it feels like that's something that he would demand and there's benefits to it um but yeah they're heading over to built over great yay vi is a degree of respect for katelyn now vi doesn't want peace especially not with silco vi wants to kill silco so no she wants everyone to be better off in the undercity she definitely wants to kill silco herself more than likely but she doesn't want if you remember episode two she learned all about like how ultimately a big war is definitely not what we want we just want to get rid of silco so she's very much happy that katelyn's concluded that it's true that everyone here needs help and that should be built over his responsibility to do something about it and then we go over to victor and mel and jace just having a chat about this i guess grenade that was given by silco to marcus to jace with the commentary that it's from the fire lights not the uh not silco's goons and uh i think even victor says like it's um it's like he's like impressed with it even though it's really crude right i can't remember what he says exactly but um it's crude but inspired yeah yeah and then mel is like is this evidence that they could weaponize hextech and victor's like i don't know about that like this is a bit of a this is a bit of a leap i think he even says it's a leap um but of course this is mel is cranking it up uh the pressure from what she's she wants which is to encourage the creation of weapons and she says if we assume the worst and they've made a weapon with a gemstone we need to prepare countermeasures and uh i think victor just like freaking out already just like absolutely not he knows immediately what jace is thinking he's like no no stop it yeah and i think she says heimerdinger's inaction is what brought us here and um if you just keep an eye on victor throughout this scene he starts not talking as much and just fucking frowning because he knows that his input isn't valued essentially which in a sense is partially his own fault he's uh avoided getting involved with any other stuff but he also knows that um this is i think i think he can start to detect a little bit the jace is being manipulated um and he's also worried about what decision he might end up making because uh as she leaves she says the decision is yours to jace and victor's just right there doing this all about the hextech and he's just like yeah and he says uh we're scientists not soldiers hextech is supposed to improve lives not take them improve jace says one of those lines and victor gives one of those responses that i think you like mr more like we don't have a choice but look like there's always a choice yeah he says we may not have a choice there is always a choice true victor absolute shad which he says just after disarming that grenade what did they mean by this do you think uh oh you mean because yeah so probably for the sake of people listening victor accidentally triggers the the grenade and it starts to go off but he disables it right before it explodes um i don't how convenient do we need to explain what that represents when he says there's always a choice disabling the bomb before it explodes you can there are things you can choose to do there's a choice but you feel compelled to do some things uh yeah i like it um really oh yeah so jace says he needs to think about it and he ends up going to his um his home that we saw in the first three episodes and i think he speaks to his mum i can't remember if that's yeah i think he says to i'm worried i have to do something i never thought i would uh and i think the way the shot works oh yeah because this is kind of a montage sequence actually we get a lot of different things happening so echo is leaving the sanctuary with katlyn and vi and victor is carving uh runes into his not only his skin but his um his brace as well which is interesting to think about uh that whatever he's trying to do he wants it to apply to not only his actual body but the uh the metal that's supporting it you know or maybe he doesn't at this point well here's i was thinking he's had that on for so long now he almost subconsciously just imagines it as a part of him i mean well that he probably just doesn't want to etch it into his own skin well does he already put it in his own skin oh okay yeah yeah that's why i assume it was just okay i thought the skin came out i thought he did it in the skin later he um i think it's just a leg for this one he does it for his whole body next time uh or at least he puts on his torso as well anyway yeah he's he's prepping that up and uh i think we see heimerdinger is a little cloak he's getting on a little boat and you're just like oh geez what are you up to mr heimerdinger we haven't seen him since he was fired floats and boats floats and boats and we uh gotta get me some cloaks and boats you didn't see in a lot of these little little flies that's you know a lot get them around intriguing hmm what that means hmm um and then we get the bridge the bridge scene begins with 14 of minutes of the episode still left because a lot of stuff happens on this bridge oh yeah and uh jinx is on it so she's keeping an eye on everything and still figuring out exactly where she stands on this whole vi situation um you might wonder why is she here i imagine that those flies were a form of keeping an eye on people slash being around uh jinx is probably uh managed to find uh echo slash vi slash katelin's little group and she's following them and now she's on the bridge because that's exactly where they're heading and she's um figuring some stuff out doesn't quite know what she's doing about anything just yet meanwhile victor injects his leg with the shimmer that uh singed gave him and jace makes a conclusion and uh i think they give away what it is with showing a little page in his book from when he was a little kid yeah everyone who played the game was like literally yes everyone is desperate to see him hold a fucking hammer if they've played the game like please give him a hammer i want hammer time give it to me rumble isn't in this show hammer zime hammer zime i need hammer zime um but yeah hymening has crossed now he's at the undercity don't exactly nobody's up to just yet wow calling it the undercity just because he's there they call it the under city it's they're weird you know it's always excuses that's what makes it okay is it yeah that's what makes it oh i can use their word now all right victor puts his hand on the core and he goes and then we don't know what's happening and i can pretty much guarantee that everyone who played the game at this point thought that the next time they'd see him he would look entirely different uh but he's very very different yeah not just yet and you also see the the core already having like goopy stuff in between now as well yeah well he's touching it it's like ew why is this looking like that it's gross um be a halfwayish across the bridge vi decides that uh she shouldn't leave the undercity she should uh work on powder see if she can save her she thinks she can break through those two should go and sort out the gemstone going to pilt over um and then uh here in katelyn hug and jinx sees it and it's just it's kind of funny because she says to herself exactly what i would try to tell her to carve it out she says it's just a goodbye hug like yeah it is it is just a goodbye hug they're fine it's chill don't worry about it doesn't mean anything but um i feel like this image summarizes yeah well yeah look about phantom shadow milo is like oh i think you're looking great fucking image yeah i don't know if we've been explicit on it yet but i think it's very clear what milo represents at this point he is a manifestation of every self-doubt she has ever had about anything she thinks because he never believed in her he was always down there once it's always the one who's like you're fall do you jinx everything you're shit stay home and forever it's not that jinx is worried they're lesbians jinx is worried that katelyn has replaced her uh it's specific my sister knows they best not be fucking stink jinx has become a stink better not get more you call this stinks like stings well that's the only fucking outfit she wears she probably smells terrible she just has multiple the same one gosh like homo if the if the water you have to wash things in the undercity is just that uh that that gloopy water and yeah and she walks off and she's like all right then it's fine it's chill she's gone then they're not even they're not even together anymore it's totally fine um so yeah then she walks off they're walking places and they finally get up to the area where the the popo is at and the big old spotlights are spread on him and marcus walks up which is like i don't know if you've just been paying full attention just like oh fuck what's he gonna decide to do yeah uh-oh basically like this is the thing you've got to realize at this point the threat is on his daughter uh what do you do he's in between a rock and a hard place i also undoubtedly i like the way they have um katelyn holding her id kind of neat because i know a lot of people do it that way or they put that one finger behind this stuff just better it's easier to project it i think or at least have a better hold but yeah and she she says which is helpful for her but not for the situation uh i have proof silk is behind it all it's like oh the worst you think you think it's the best thing to say but it's actually the worst thing to say oh no it's one of them dramatic ironies yeah and marcus you know has them pull down their rifles and you're like okay okay because um i actually thought that he would basically be like i'm gonna have to take them in um but i was wrong uh and it's the thing it could have really gone many ways because marcus is a character torn between many different things right now um the detail i enjoy actually we're almost there uh echo shows that they have the gemstone as proof which is not good for jinx that's watching right now because that means they fucking stole it like and that was seemingly all they were there for that's that's here in secures again a milo is getting a little bigger and closer and she's uh doing less to get rid of him so you know that's building up but um yeah what i like about this is echo realizes the gun's coming and his action is to close the gemstone container like that's the one thing he gets to get done before the gunshot comes out i just like because echo is fast but he ain't that fast um yeah and yeah it doesn't surprise me that he had protection uh with what echo gets up to every day yeah he's a busy guy yeah so marcus fighting a lot echo uh intention looked to kill and he pulls the push the gun then on katlyn while grabbing the gemstone and i imagine that he's just he's stressed out probably thinking about how he's gonna have to cover this up but also does he want to kill katlyn cannot uh cure him and that's yeah it's probably not a good idea it's not even well i just think it's more like an action now yeah but that having happened makes vice sprint back yelling for katlyn i heard a gunshot and what does that do for jinx you have milo fucking becoming like this hulking shadow monster that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger it's really creepy it's oh my god i've never looked at it frame by frame like you're doing is like honestly it's fantastic jinx that's it she's she's just too much and then she just says liar it's like oh no liar well it was a little differently than anakin but you know the same sort of situation that means that means worse than anakin anything different than anakin is worse of course that goes without saying perfect um and yeah marcus i think says something like you couldn't just leave it alone um which i think is just standard for he's trying to make this her fault instead of his choice like he glances back across to like the other enforcers there and then in a in a hushed tone i think he's still like concerned about what's going on here it says like just you can just leave it alone dude like because he doesn't want to do this it's very abundantly clear on his face oh yeah we get that well yeah so anyway vise running toward them and then a flock i guess of these little little butterfly things come in it all seems pretty chill warm right up until they land and yeah uh just before they land on one of them lands on marcus's gun the fucking look at his face trying to just bring up the courage to shoot her yeah it's like i'm the cool corrupt man i can do it i can do it i can be the corrupt cool guy but yes all of these are explosives boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom and i already i'm gonna say that i i would say we were great i was very distracted with the the sights on his gun um i've got them up rags commentary go uh you have the you have a front post which is what your eyes will be focused on because of you have depth of field your eyes can really only focus on one sort of layer of thing at once so when you're shooting a gun you have your front post at the tip of the gun and you have the the notches essentially in the back of different configurations but you are focusing on your front sight and you have your rear sights are a little bit blurry and you'll have your target kind of be a little blur it's it doesn't matter it's just one of those like uh why'd they do it that way though is it why did they do it that way back sights are in the front front sights are in the back maybe it's maybe it's symbolic where it's like oh but is he like in a way aiming at himself with his decisions is he bringing about his oh my god it's it's incredible really um yeah we'll get to aiming with the wrong eye uh it depends on which dominant eye you have you're not necessary people aren't necessarily left eye dominant left eye dominant it's it's generally going to be the case but uh plus you don't really have to aim at that distance well also he's um definitely not he's got a bit of a mental he's not even right out he doesn't he doesn't really need to do much aiming she's about a foot away um yeah you don't have to aim at that distance he just point but now all he's doing is that leads us into a criticism that explosion takes off his whole arm meanwhile Caitlyn has a scratch on her leg um a lot of people highlighted this is uh one of the biggest pieces of plot armor so what we have is references we did this before everybody you saw us do it in episode four yeah it was four right where we went super super death so i love that frame uh what do we got to work with here it's like well we know that they do explosions that are like i said if the best we can do is say from the tip of his gun to his shoulder that's the range that's lethal and then outside of that is damaging i would assume trying to get as as autistic as possible here is it's uh to make sure because i think some people feel i'm not dotting my dotting my t's and crossing my eyes yeah uh so that goes off with the gun about a foot away from here which means her head should have been blown off correct it's like well yes if we believe she did not move um we don't see a move but is it possible she did i guess but i don't know it's like what what reaction she really is we have for moving away right i know because how he didn't even really know what that was and of course the face wasn't really facing her so she might not have even seen the face to know when to move away so what i'm so my first goal here is to define are we dealing with a plot hole or contrivance uh i would say contrivance i think because the fact they don't show us what she's doing when this happens then it's on us to be a particular level faith as well we can say i don't i don't know i don't think that she'd have any reason to move so she didn't move so she'll be dead or i guess because of the fact that she survived it means she must have moved everyone scattered and there were explosions going off everywhere so it's hard to like make heads or tails of this but she does end up like positioned differently relative to markers do you mean once we see her again yeah once we see her again in the aftermath um yeah so that's is that because of the force of an explosion or well so this is the thing it's kind of hard to say like if they showed that she hadn't moved at all when the explosion goes off i'd be like it's a hole it's armor the fact they don't show it means that it was like there was there anything she could have done and it's like well yeah move backwards and it's like okay but would she it's like i don't know i don't know that there's much reason for her to do so when she doesn't know what these things are would she have and could she have could she have yes would she have i mean to any i and so there was explosions everywhere and out of all the people who died she didn't i'm not the only person who survived yeah there's like one guy who sort of survives but you know we'll get to that but again it's just showing that kaitlyn had specced into blast resistance that's really all there is because someone would she to avoid being killed yeah she doesn't know what these things are so don't use that excuse yeah just like a split split seconds like oh this is starting to glow and maybe she could have like i don't know hunched over or just threw herself on the ground but i don't know how helpful that is in that little amount of time they start exploding bro they start exploding so she the first one that blows off is the fucking one in her face what is she gonna react to that explosion would have worn her that that was dangerous unless she has jinx reaction speed time then i i don't know even then she'd be then the fire will wake us so i'm willing to concede 100 this is plot armor i just don't know the degree to which it is uh it's a little bit i think it's a lot of plot armor yeah she's already survived one explosion and then she just survives another one this one is yeah this one is probably the biggest in the show as far as i know um well we'll see we'll go forward but um is that is that sell does anyone else anything definitely just survived another explosion and i think the solution for that is literally just one shot of her going and then she ducks and then i'd be like i guess she lucked out in that there was no flies close enough at that point i yeah have the have a make a ticking sound that she hears that's it yeah um something yeah something something like a ticking sound or a visible have um her associate them with jinx in a way that other people won't be able to quickly enough well uh one of them has the the colors like the crayon shit on it i think that would be enough for her to go oh as long as we set up that she knows that but as the said look at the look of these positions when we come back to him he's been blown back in his arms off she's like over there it's just like okay not quite sure how that's happening wait that's actually there's no look at it this actually makes it worse because she's closer to him now is what i mean i don't really get how this ended up yeah how did you get though yeah i don't know i would have had her probably take a bit more damage in the scene as well yeah because she does end up with some shrapnel in her leg but i think we need a little bit more than that to sell the she you know this was a brush with death yeah because it wasn't shrapnel that took off his arm i don't think it would have had to have been like just explosive force or something and then explosive force is generally going to be directed and just out it's it's a very um flimpy sort of there's a couple of things you can tweak to help fix this but yeah as it stands big plot armor uh Caitlyn is still alive everyone uh jinx is on the way uh via guest to Caitlyn first obviously she was ahead but uh bad news right now even between she held on the bridge right which uh i still don't intend to go back to until we've really finished the show um but i think that as well the but yeah she's humming what she was singing when she was a kid the same place the same time and i mean the events this time being she executes an enforcer as she's doing that and she's feeling okay about it oh yeah you just you gotta keep in mind and remember her parents were executed by enforcers so it's like this is something that's going on with her alongside everything else she's not the victim in this scene anymore i mean to fully explain jinx this is like it would take a while she's a very layered character there's so much shit going on with her um yeah yeah here comes a conversation we hear marcus say uh tell my daughter and then he's just dead yep like both impotent to the end wow what a boring character right guys right right right that's the perfect way to finish him off probably is that he's not likeable they are making reference to a video you will see if i've covered the future anyway uh the but you know i like to do this whenever we have a character story end but like yeah that was marcus um what can you say about this in totality it's that he's a he's a man that probably represents more people than any other character in this fucking show to be honest with you just constantly dealing with lots of choices to have to make lots of prejudices and sort of defensiveness that's built up from just life itself and then getting into situations you really just don't know how to deal with um yeah and all throughout he just shows like so much weakness like he he really does seem like he dealt with all of his problems in just the weakest way possible and it got him to this point so he is not a strong one to provide some representation to a particular perspective a lot of people have he was a piece of shit who ruined the life of many people through the decisions he made it's true yes uh we simply understand a lot of the decisions he made were really hard for him to make and he really wanted to be a better person he just yeah he wasn't just um he wasn't just a selfish asshole dick who was doing it you know it there was this more than that you really like him no he was on the cartoon he was an actual villain characters that you don't see much is characters that try and fail to be better yeah like really desperately wish they were a better person but they just they don't have it in them with the situation choosing all the wrong answers because he wanted to stop fully like he put like his badge down probably even what wanted to retire or resign his post but then well so he was in there with his daughter like oh fuck yeah he's in too deep with so many different areas and i think he wanted to be gracing um yeah exactly he wanted to be gracing racing requires a lot of spine she was a very strong character in that regard and it's something that he would always aspire to but couldn't achieve marcus is a is a very real person he wants to be good but that's really hard it's very hard at several stages being good means his daughter dies well like being good means significant loss uh personally and it was just more often than not the choice that he went with was like compromise principles compromise um yeah compromise yourself essentially uh to continue existing and having a life that you've built the life has been built on a shaky ground and not one single time did he feel good about it no he never felt good about it he's very believable as a character and yeah he died and he died before his story was over because yeah people died before their story is over he doesn't get to have like um closure because he dies without getting to finish because his his fucking story in the show is all about all of the things that he didn't do that's what he's constantly concerned with there's all the stuff that he didn't do and he doesn't even get to finish his last words to his daughter like yep um because and this is interesting when you think about that video that we watched about fridging and stuff like that of like unceremonious deaths this is a very unceremonious death um people die unceremoniously remember the most yeah mark this is one of them you also saw good people getting killed having a spine didn't save them i can understand his choice that's kind of the idea that a lot of people will die because they have a spine but that doesn't discourage them from having a spine this conviction mark is having a spine and he died anyway and look at him there when he's one of them like it's all meaningless if you just go with the flow and try to just succeed at the cost of anybody and everyone you could tell his big moment for regret was Grayson's death his decisions for doing what he thought was gonna work out real well for him cost him the life of his mentor i think that looms over him constantly yeah because if you had a way out in that moment if he had a way out he would be out but no he's in with silco now he's stuck here well there there is a way out it's just gonna cost him a ton i guess no clean way out is what i know exactly um and so because of that he just keeps going along with it yeah um yeah just a string of bad choices put him in a in a bad spot because i imagine it only got worse for him because there will have been a window of time where he can leave and like what happens is he's disgraced or you know otherwise yeah like it's not gonna cost his life or his family or it's yeah then he has a family and now he has a family to lose and now he has a job to lose and now he has even more station to lose and silco's more powerful and can access him more consequences broadly on the world as well now marcus was a pretty interesting character he is and it's good to get a marcus character completely you almost forget i exist you almost forget they exist even though i think he's much more common than the rest of them are in terms of real life people yes in terms yeah he's a very he's a very real person that's the reason why greyson is like so exemplary it's because it's like to be a person like that takes a lot of work um you're not you're not born that way i don't think yeah it's uh you gotta earn it um also madden the owl is the one that made this uh little avatar that i'm using right now it's supposed to be inspired by some of the stuff that jinx is going through an arcane in general uh mel you've got one as well right it was like a vandal variant or something mm-hmm yeah yeah okay that makes sense to me i didn't think about it that way look at him trying to sneak off without no don't say that metal we're gonna get banned what the fuck um okay say those things on your own channel metal oh my goodness yeah so uh getting real close now yeah i think some of them could stay alive via um by gets to katlyn and oh yeah they have this like i generally get like i can terminate a vibe with the shot they have here by jinx just getting closer and closer it's just like what are you it's like the music that plays as well it's just like she just represents death at this point um yeah by gets to katlyn and picks her up while jinx finds the uh the gemstone container and she sees them together which with everything else so it's pretty much enough to convince her that yeah so what you told me was all shit got everybody else telling her that this is the case on her team and then she sees this and she's got her brain doing this shit oh no look at her she's sloughing at you i'm taking vye away again oh hey mel wow still in my bag wow uh yeah and so she goes to shoot them uh vye pushes katlyn forward and herself back to dodge the the shots coming in through the center and then nice and slowed down echo comes out of the mist yeah fucking that's a little tiny a little tiny bit of his fucking scene music playing when he shows up he knocks the gatling gun out of her hand on the first strike and in the second strike he gets the uh the the gemstone container off here yep and passes it to them and tells them to go because the reality of this situation is that he is going to fight jinx and they've got to get out of here because i mean he probably is aware there's a chance he won't win this yeah uh before we get into the scene uh the the i've seen people complain that it's out of character for vye to leave here no it's not you know so gotta consider all the variables katlyn now needs medical attention um jinx is losing her fucking mind the point where she's just fired a gun at them and uh vye needs to get this gemstone to pilt over to prevent a war from breaking out and echo is saying to go so you've got a lot to consider um and you can tell that vye doesn't want to leave but she's got a responsibility right now yep just there are a lot of lives at stake of her her leaving right now and thus begins the best scene in the show so um i don't know i feel like i like i said i talk a lot so uh i i feel like passing it over to thea right i'm gonna do it i'm gonna pass it over to you little mid oh shit do you want me to frame my frame no do whatever you want explain it however you want we're going to talk about this for a good 20 minutes no pressure okay this scene uh i don't know if i mentioned yet but yeah uh echo a favorite character of mine from the video game uh we've noted that the uh the stopwatch thing he has is in fact like that's a reference of sorts but we can get into that more later on and uh the stylized thing they do here as like the fight begins is a really strong way of accomplishing a lot of things at once by representing that you know fanservice to the people who understand what's going on from the game perspective and also of implying more of the history that echo and jinx had together uh back when they were really young because yeah it just shows them you know playing a game like they would have when they were kids something like this because powder was a good shot so she would be she'd be doing things like this he has to try and learn how to shoot from doing games like this yeah yeah uh he has to reach her before she lands a paintball on him and then of course constantly like intercutting between that and the present uh it's a really effective way of showing contrast even under the lens of the music which is uh how do i describe it like it's very fun i guess kanya west power sure it's it's very fun the music is having so many doesn't sound like kanya west power sorry i just i don't know the song so i can't um what else to say like how far forward am i good to go because the thing i'm most interested in talking about is the contrast you're welcome to go not okay cool i'm going to do this one at the end i'm going to have a speech the last like fucking 10 minutes or some shit because there's a lot i have to say so i'm letting other people do it too the the most fantastic thing in the scene for me uh from like a writing perspective is the contrast i mentioned because the musical section is really fun it's having a lot of fun and it's indulging in the fact that this is champion combat and we haven't got champion combat anywhere in the show before both of these characters are in the game they look roughly like they do in the game one of them is missing a piece of their equipment from the game but that doesn't really matter uh and yeah they're making a big thing out of it while also showing you flashes of their past to you know allude to that side of things while also uh doing it in a really really visually interesting way with the music going and everything to make it a really cool audio visual experience and then they bring it back when kid echo throws his stopwatch to the ground and it breaks and we rewind back which is alluding to the time travel thing he has going on later on in the game which is that's a really cool way of doing that and i'm glad that they did and the actual fight as things proceed in the show as opposed to in like flashback dreamland is like it's not pleasant it's not it's no they're not having fun with it anymore it is it is a somber quick brutal violent experience where it's very faithfully portrayed as things should be if he gets to her before she can land a shot on him like just look at the difference in their bill he's got a weapon if the fight's over and it is very brutal when he does well there's a reality of if she hits him he's going to die from blood loss and if he gets to her he's going to have to beat her to death yeah exactly he's going to have to beat her to death like that's fucked up considering especially as we've just been shown these were childhood friends and another cool interpretation i just remembered for the uh for the stylized section with the music going is uh well that's what's going on in echo's mind of course because he initiates this by uh starting to swing the stopwatch which i think is to remind jinx because she seems to pick up on that and yeah nods along and gets into stands and everything so he's remembering how things went all those times in the context of trying to plan his moves now like how do i reach this person before i get shot because it's not a splatter of paint this time it's i'm going to die which is it's it's worth starting up as well that she opens with the boy savior referencing his sanctuary and his efforts to try and uh undo what silk has done which obviously those two have been like at each other's throats now for years potentially we don't have the context on that exactly but she sees him as a pitiful attempt to try and improve the like zone and he sees her as just this fucking psychopath that's killed several of his friends and like when she says that to insult him he gets like annoyed but then he's just like this reality that we're in we're about to do the thing we used to do as kids because he's probably thinking about them as kids all the time um and so laughs and i think that uh it can be confusing for people when they first see this scene why the fuck are they smiling and laughing what does what does this have to do with anything and um even she's confused for a second and then she realizes um and she laughs too because yeah what an insane absurd position to be in we're about to play that kids game we used to play with but one of us this time is going to die it's the grim absurdity of it look how far we've come look how different we are even just when they're like about to do it like they are ready to go through with it i don't think it's really fully here because again by the time by the time he has one like he's hair over the head he's stronger he's able to beat her into the ground not quite effort effortlessly it's still like really scuffed and unpleasant on the eyes but he is not ready to go all the way through with it when there's someone who looks like terrified and bloody like underneath him yeah and uh lots of feels from this but specifically the uh the transition from the clock moving back and forth and then she turns into the younger vision of herself um it's like if you're not even seeing this coming at all you're just like oh man because of those first three episodes setting your right up for all this stuff to pay off that much better it's like yeah remember she's powder the mention i always made of the show being willing to indulge in fan service but then always bringing it back to something narratively and totally appropriate this is the scene as well as a later one uh next episode that's always on my mind because they do indulge in the fan service they do give you a bit of of a champion battle and they stylize it and they really play it up as this big event then they bring it back to like the actual reality of the show and they're very aware of what this actually means to everyone involved and that it is not some big spectacular event this sucks it's impressive that the scene can be this fucking good and we you don't even have to include how well it references the game like there's so many people who will watch this enjoy it and understand exactly why it's so meaningful but then people who've played the game are like how did you just incorporate as Echo's fucking ultimate without even mechanically have it work the same way as his actual ultimate you simply referenced it in an incredibly meaningful story telling way what an excellent job specifically what i'm referring to is the fact that as Theo's already brought up he rewinds but he doesn't actually he's just remembering how their games have gone before before starting it up yeah but they frame it like it's a rewind i wonder why they might be doing that it's really fucking cool um but yeah the soundtrack is cut and it's just the raw effects and sounds of the punching and the hitting and it's pretty aggressive for a little bit but then i think they both realize what's happening here that is pretty horrible brief moment there when he just yeah he sees clearly again because he's won and well there's powder and her nose is with her gray eyes like she had that's powder and it's just it's just the worst um i was thoroughly impressed by the scene when i first saw it never thought this was coming yeah it was good shit it's good shit and uh again just with expressions you can tell we might we like expressions over here because there's just so much to talk about what do these expressions mean for instance uh after a little bit of staring she like smiles at him and then releases the grenade what do you think that means probably like appreciating the fact that he actually stopped punching her because she knows that there's still something there for both of them but that the reality is we're on opposite fucking sides here comes the grenade so a small thing of like congrats you win dude yeah you really have grown you've come so far you've become the league of legends she pulls the pin on that grenade uh just with how her mind is and has been recently i think she was okay with the idea of dying now yes and it's probably time for us to talk about that um it's a big explosion when they zoom out uh everyone this is usually the first example i see reference from everybody for plot armor it's the shouldn't both of them be dead um should we get to that now or should we get to it once we find out the fate of both of them feel like it's only after the eights all right maybe uh come back to it when we yeah yeah that makes sense find out what happened to them yep i want to i want to point out as well the rags you were pretty convinced that this meant they were both dead right oh yeah i would at the end of this episode i was convinced that they were both dead yes i think you even said yeah i was convinced i was yeah you said that you were surprised because you would thought there's more story to end with vion jinx but that that's that's a death scene right now i'm like yeah but this show is ready and this show will do that so they're dead i was i was convinced i was like i there wasn't a shadow of a doubt in my mind that they that that they were that were they weren't dead i was convinced of it completely 100 percent i was shocked when i i think uh well wait once i chat is rolling out all the defenses we're not doing that yet gotta wait we'll get there all right we we've got we've got the very same comments to make we'll get there it was not you know has this episode stands we'd simply be speculating on the fact that they've died we wouldn't have anything else on uh on what rag said my thought was echo is definitely not dead we just introduced him and we're definitely but i i think i was like jinx hmm would they really i think there was that thought in my mind but the fact that i was there like hmm would they that's almost like a testament to the show because of it were a lot of other things would be like nah that's just fine she'll be fine especially since they can make you think that way when these are like champions from the exactly exactly there'll be another really strong example of that later on episode nine uh i felt like uh there's too much narrative to do between vi and jinx to kill her i was pretty sure she wasn't gonna die yeah yeah um but that is episode no when i say when we just introduced him it's like we see echo back again full force like as a you know active in the story well dude i happened to follow the school of theo on this one that we're not allowed to kill echo until he at least actually uses his ultimate from the game thus i feel that they're not gonna kill him until that happens oh i didn't know anything about the game so none of that even no of course an aspect of my mind i would be super upset if they had did because the way they use his time travel is very interesting because it's really grounded and they're willing to indulge in the consequences of it yes like i've mentioned before there's a short story for echo that came out around the time of his release of him trying to save one of his friends who got shot by a pilty um and he tries i think somewhere in the vicinity of 80 times 80 separate rewinds but he cannot reach the kid but to in an amount of time that lets him help them before they bleed out so and like that's that's the premise of the comic him just trying over and over and over again but no matter how much time he has it's just not enough and that sounds like an arcane story already doesn't it yep so anyway that'd be we're on to episode eight can you believe it two episodes done in three hours and 40 minutes we're not and it's not the worst you know i'm right um so uh we've got mel as a kid in flashback mode and she says uh she learned from like a source i can't remember what the source is but the war is a failure of statecraft just an interesting quote to add to what we know about mel um and then in mum is there trying to teach us like uh that a lot of people you you're either a fox or a wolf in the year approach with um i guess everything in life and i assume the difference being shrewd and smart versus aggressive and domineering sort of thing and she says you must learn to be both uh which again these scenes just like with everything we know about these characters whenever they get these scenes you're like oh that doesn't form everything that they're all about uh um and yeah she she's already excited to talk about how they're going to be manipulating the new monarch she's like will make her like agreeable but still something that you know people take orders from whatever and that we will be able to blah blah blah and then um in mum is like maybe you could be it and she's like oh shit just uh she's this young and she's already thinking about like political manipulation it's just interesting to think about um but there's a girl who's been captured and in mum asks her what they should do with her and she says uh stripper of all of her like possessions and just send her away and then mum says that if you do that she'll come back one day or like eventually amassing a lot of people for like some form of vengeance um it was better to kill her and for a moment there mel thinks that's not going to be the case until mum pulls out what i actually thought was kind of like uh talon's weapons from the game uh i was wondering is talon noxus do you see someone else uh yeah he's yeah he's noxus he's associated with the dakutu family she chops her fucking head off and says a wolf has no mercy which is interesting yeah it's with the head they do that with uh echo's first reintroduction in episode four as he's falling with the uh the boards i think as well i don't know uh this may be i guess i don't want this to be controversial but mel's mum has a very good point here if we look from a perspective of history uh when the symbol of the old regime exists your problems are never over as a revolutionary or a conquering force so long as what's that there's a there's a surviving air there is a surviving uh you know a royal member the bloodline still exists there you know that's that's that's not good for you if you've usurped them it would seem that six different factions who are royalists have like rallied around them okay cool we beat we beat them back okay they have kid who survived and then you know more factions later down the line have rallied around them and it never stops so long as the old regime exists leave one wolf and the sheep and the bellion in a way that's what you're saying apparently it's a quote well um but yeah just they never they never take a chance not to have a pretty neat shot like this one mel has an opinion on violence that is a very silly which is one that would not be particularly well received and noxious of all places yeah it's not every noxian is like a big punch person who you know the war every all the time it's great uh but noxious is about strength and if you don't have the strength to do well get you like the best result then that's cringe yes but yeah we see the the necklaces and the pool of blood and then it flashes too she's painted it she's having a nightmare when she wakes up so a lot of this weighs on her mind much like a lot of the scenes we end up seeing that are core to these characters they define a lot about how they end up going forward in life which is kind of just how humans work yeah it looks fantastic let me get a shot of that again that's really good trying to get it this is probably like a big uh big key piece of information for telling us a lot about mel we could already glean plenty of it so far but they're just getting the uh that uh that piece of information it's like who interesting this is an important episode for mel mel sneaks up on you uh in the show she goes from being what yeah like a pretty thin secondary character to like oh she's like a full-on character okay i understand yeah i'm just to just see what happens with mel yes whatever it may be whatever it may be um so silco arrives at the bridge and he finds the body of jinx and it's not looking good like there's splats of blood and loads of like i guess dirt and stuff and she's just unconscious so um i guess we'll wait a little longer before we talk about it just a little longer but there's a particular scene you all know i'm waiting for uh and yeah um katelyn is getting taken to a house by vi silco grabs jinx and takes her somewhere so uh jace arrives at the bridge in the morning sees all of the bodies and i just i remember seeing this and being like oh shit this is gonna uh oh he's gonna hammer time hammer time hammer time but yeah like you know less jokely what do you think his reaction is going to be to all of these enforcing corpses it's just like yeah he gets to the bridge yeah it's like blood everywhere it's something i'm glad they actually had him do because that's that's what a human does when they see that's a he does a big old vomito uh maroonies nice that you stopped there while i was puking i realized there's no real reason to do that but uh he does he does spot these on the floor um which it just matches the uh the grenades coloring them butterflies going on quite a journey those butterflies aren't they also that's um in a sense it might be evidence to him of the um the like perversion of piled over tech because they're small but like that's what did it and they were the little butterflies from progress day the worst where we first saw them yeah yep um and yeah mel is not looking happy about this and with everything we know about her at this point it's hard to be sure of exactly what she's thinking and part of it i think is that yes pro making weapons to make piled over stronger and bigger but also look what it's already done this is what weapons do yeah a bit much to think about hmm anyway we're over at katelyn's house now vise delivered here successfully um i really like the katelyn's mum burst the door open and aims a gun right at her it's great stand your ground stand your ground intruder bum bum bum bum um um but yeah uh katelyn goes to speak to her well via waits because they're gonna see about what happens next yeah i don't know yet look for real though just her using a gun just implies to me that's probably it would have been a commonality for that house that the women knows how to fucking use guns and that's why katelyn's probably not only into it but combine that with gracing just a pathway that seems perfectly reasonable for any girl growing up in a household like that um yeah and yeah they um she actually manages to convince her parents to have vi and katelyn listened to on the council because her mum is a council member so we shall see about that yay um next up singed is pulling something out of his face pretty weird gross and i have no idea what it's a what is what is happening there uh it looks like a bit of cloth or something but i think it's uh i think it's just he's just really is refreshing his bandages or renewing his bandages it could be as simple as a bandage on his face that's you know healed into his wound but uh yeah not sure exactly whatever it is it's not pleasant no no he has a bit of a tortured existence um but yeah silco bursts in the room and he's like fucking help jinx is pretty much dead do something and uh i think one of the first things singed says is i must know are you prepared to lose her which is a really great line because silco says she won't die doctor she can't which is another way of saying no i'm not prepared for yeah exactly yeah and so uh he says i understand the possibility and then injects him like i love the fact that it's not none of it's explicit it's all subtext like a different conversation is happening so it's like uh so if you're not prepared to watch her fucking suffer and die i can't do this and you just said you're not so i'm gonna knock you out okay i'll i'll just get to work for all right just take a nap right this isn't gonna be fun to watch and as he's fading into uh being unconscious he hears sinx say i too once had a daughter yeah oh just huh you did interesting very interesting i want to talk more about that at the like after the end well we're genuinely getting close what an adventure this has been yeah we're almost to the scene we're almost to the scene i i want us to see where echo is and i want us to get to that that moment with jinks then we will have all of our tools um yeah what you can see here is that uh savika's previous arm is on the table and she's tinkering away at a new one um and so like this is just a blatant confirmation that she's the one that actually builds and maintains these arms then i assume um it makes sense it's uh yeah at least maintains yeah not not necessarily like in vents but i don't know who they would argue is the inventor it could be jinx i guess um but i just i think at this point we could assume it's here that was my assumption that jinx made it i think i assume that this is a thing that exists in the world maybe that you can get these things in the world if if you find a skilled enough person man is there is there another jargai right here body mods and it's done really well no that wasn't council scenes was that uh you know body modification and implants like this is something the under cities good at yes we've seen how ingenuity we are and we've seen a couple of examples of them as well including but not limited to finn's jaw as he arrives in this scene and uh i could never tell if that was a body mod or if it was just like tech like jewelry that he's sort of yeah caught on it seems like yeah it kind of does seem like vanity piece it could be a i think it's i think it's both a little column a little column yeah yeah i think he does need a job but you know if you've got money you want to look snazzy and nice yeah yep like because you ain't hiding it so you want to just be like yeah that's right it's freaking amazing and it's ornate and it's golden brass and imagine the conversation you need to have with the person who's given it to you i need a replacement jaw said with no jaw you're right down what he was do is he's done a lot of jaws so he knows exactly he speaks he speaks one jaw he speaks upper jaw he speaks jawless yeah it's a jawless place this world um so is this species is he a jaw he could write it down no he doesn't he's got he doesn't write it down he you know he didn't write it down he forgot to all right and he can't ask for a pen because you know can't really ask for anything don't worry reg no he could be like he could that's not true he could be like the arm in cloverfield paradox oh god we watched that movie yeah that's right that's what you didn't expect one of those references today that was recorded right was it not did we watch that without we're not doing any fat movies or do we just casually watch it i can't remember anymore so long ago i don't want to remember anyway the uh i like this seen a whole bunch because it runs exactly as you'd expect it to in a reasonable way she's tinkering with her arm he walks up and she detects almost immediately through just a couple of lines he has he's like you're trying to convince me to fucking betray silco i'm not stupid this is you this is your play and then he's just like well yeah silco is treating you like shit you're you do basically everything in this operation like what like what is the reason for you to remain loyal to silco why and then i think he just kind of walks off and she's just like because tell me why she accepts the offered light of her cigar thing which uh yeah you know i'm listening definitely that vibe yeah because it's it's the thing for so because she's silco is kind of a twat to her um yeah she's not been having a great time lately uh and the fact is like she felt the same way about vanda that vanda was making the wrong decisions that's why she fucking betrayed him and at this point she's like why don't you just lead or done for someone who's a better leader and at this point fin is basically suggesting himself they do show off so because new sword thing they do it will be relevant soon enough very much uh day of sex human revolution kind of thing isn't it but the difference is she did ask for this yeah she did ask for this she did this yeah um you know all right actually it's total tangent let's press on so uh mel's mum arrives and this is like the first biggest sort of noxus is a thing and this is someone that's arrived from nox it feels much more uh like the world is expanding a little bit more than simply named references this is a person from there and she's got things to talk about uh as i think when i was watching this for free i was just like noxus is just bad news so like i'm not sure what's going to be happening but it ain't going to be good and um yeah i imagine they're going to be they're going to be a way bigger role as this show goes on uh i would assume so i can imagine that's gonna be the case uh and she actually tells mel your brother's gone he crossed the wrong man and i was distracted a mistake i can't take back which is like just for i was just gonna say that's that's like the implications of what there's probably a whole incredibly complicated beautiful story that's happened in noxus already that they're probably considering showing us at this point in episodes of arcane i'd imagine i might be i mean that could be might be relevant what if that was the first three episodes of series two was actually noxus fact story might be relevant to a character we might see but who fucking knows it's all fan speculation based on the presence of birds so you know hey once they understand who slain is they would think that's significant too just for a quick clarification i think that is the symbol of house madada rather than noxious as a whole noxious is probably true i i just associated a noxious symbol yeah just because noxious has a fairly prolific landed aristocracy uh so they have all sorts of noble houses like this um yeah and she she has pleasantries for like five seconds and then she starts saying like your jace has turned his eye to weaponry and your under city has fested and i don't even think there's a matter of like discussing that she's just like you fucker you want my you want weapons don't you like you just want it for for noxious and she says it's a fact weapons cannot be unmade they will be used and i'm going to guide you to the right decision that's what she says which is pretty blatant another nice detail of the expressions i fortunately don't have a timestamp noted down but when she when she hears about her brother being dead you can see like a lower lip quiver it's like oh that's nice little detail yeah like a little bit of quivering yeah mel quiver no shut up yeah i don't have a timestamp i wouldn't need to look at such a whatever remember that being a thing mel mel's mom is a fetish okay okay so anyway uh then we see katelyn and vye having a little chat and uh vye explains that there was a game her and powder used to play when they were younger where they would just keep trying to create monsters to counter the monsters that they were coming up with but sometimes vye would get carried away and create something a bit too scary and so to avoid her crying she would pretend to chase it away and then she says a real monster turned up and i ran away i left her um and of course it fucking frustrates the hell out of me that some people actually point out it's like well no you were taken by marcus idiot remember the events probably it's like that moment of leaving powder that's what cost all of it even if it lasted five seconds that's the major mistake that's how the biggest ramifications you could possibly imagine and uh vye will feel guilty for it for the rest of fucking life i'd imagine but the why it's such great drama is i don't think anybody watches that scene and says wow vye's evil for doing that it's like no she's under a bit of pressure it's just a little bit um yeah just just staring into katelyn's eyes on the bed while discussing all the things to make them who they are just um it's a little little moment of peace like oh a little moment of gay that is shut up jay this is the first like quiet moment they've had a chance to have where one of them hasn't just been stabbed so you know even holding hands there's lots of stuff happening anyway we get a different scene following that very peaceful and calm one and they do it very fucking deliberately vye is kind of doing okay and then boom um yeah so this scene is probably the most disturbing in the entire show uh oh yeah basically jinx is tied down and screaming constantly as different things are injected into her and all she gets told from her mind's perception of the fucking torturous katelyn slash singe telling her it's not gonna get better i'm afraid it will only get yeah it's like oh great thank you cinched and uh all she's seeing while this is happening is her understanding that she is getting wiped out in favor of katelyn and that her chances to get to be with vye again are gone um this is really bad for her psyche to put it lightly you imagine this might be a bit traumatic uh a little bit she's had enough of that already she's a wee bit uh and it's just all pretty pretty terrifying for her too because i don't even think she knows i don't know if she knows who's like what's happening really uh she'd probably only just regain consciousness this is the yeah uh and i would play it but i don't think i need to uh his screams quite um yeah quite a thing uh the actress is doing great but look at some of these stills uh so this is gonna be what a lot of people want to bring up when we finally get to the topic we're almost there because we still haven't seen echo yet um this was not peaceful no no so um yeah that gets the point across pretty well anyway moving right along the hammer dinger i think is next well silco wakes back up oh right and um i think he goes to he puts a knife to cinched i don't remember if they say anything significant though nobody else does i think it's just a matter of silco it's like what you do and cinches like i did it the thing well done i saved her life um but yes heimatinger is making his way through the undercity uh basically just he's shocked at every turn like this is he never knew about all this he never really went and checked he is it's like learning all of this and really knowing it for the first time and yeah which is unique to him but it's like simultaneously so sad in that he's just realizing how much there's so many people to help um and the things were never as good as he thought they were and even sees a little kid doing some scavenging and he's like whoa what are you up to and uh i don't know if he i think he like has a spinning top or something and he's like trying to do like a magic trick of i don't know what about either way he gives it to her it's all really chill and then his mom is like get the fuck away from him yeah they're a little freak and i love how the kid like after she's being pulled away or by mom she's like okay bye yeah important little moment just i wanted to be friends but oh well the homeless person sort of lunges out towards him begging for something and you can see the look in his eyes the reality is i don't have anything to offer this person yeah which i think makes him think about his time as uh you know head of the council as well yeah yeah um so this this and what i really adore about this is that that means what jay said wasn't just a show to get him fired at this point in terms of the meaning to the story it actually sat with him and so he went to inspect and now he's realizing it was all true and that maybe there is some validity to the fact that he's just not a good enough leader at this point if this is the fate for zorn um yeah very fucking depressed ends up uh oh a little guy yeah he's not a lot this is a big day and he gets his boat ready to go back over to pilt over his head um but he spots echo who's below the bridge and he picks up his little little board i think he says like the way these blades are cut isn't as efficient as they could be and he says they're designed for the air and the uh the fissures but actually they are you dick criticizing when you don't even know you didn't say that you did you might have a broken version or uh yeah he definitely probably got the censored cut yeah oh in my cut he called heimerdinger the n word i think that yeah that's in my cut too we have the adult cut i think for you might have the children's one heimer yeah so uh i really like the line where um heimerdinger's like i was trying to offer my assistance but apparently i'm not welcome and the neck of says oh we're having the same day both did it in reverse for the other side just the inverse yeah both like tried to extend a hand across that bridge allegorically speaking and had it slapped away yeah but they both hmm but if they're both offering that hand up to help each to help out the other side and these two want to do that hmm they have a great interaction i really like this interaction i'm very happy i know it's a really cool combo what what can uh because of course the obvious thing what can heimerdinger teach echo with all of his experience but also what are the things that echo has learned in his life uh in the undercity uh scrapping and just trying to get by what can he teach heimerdinger they both have something to offer each other uh in terms of learning more about uh the other society the technology it's uh it's it's a really it's like amidst the sea of pretty uh depressing and grim things happening this is a very nice wholesome little exchange yeah and he echo even knows him actually refers to anything that's kind of slide heimerdinger and he's like not anymore and he's kind of him straight away yeah it's just heimerdinger now it's kind of nice to see echo like not so standoffish all the time he's like oh you're kind of nice we like some yeah uh so that's probably enough for us to now talk about whether or not it was planned or at the end of uh episode seven so here i think it is safe to say that echo probably did something in the intervening time between the cut the wide cut in the explosion for as short as it was that saved his life we'll just do the same system as last time could and would could he move that grenade away from him and uh jinks within the time we saw i think the answer is yes and would he absolutely absolutely he would yes so now we have to believe he pushed it far away enough that he hurt his leg or at least he jumped off the bridge and he hurt his leg when he fell um and that she took a bit of the blast in a significant sort of sense well i don't think he jumped off the bridge because we would have seen that in the in the white card then i suppose you you could argue that yeah so i guess we'll rule that out his leg would must have been hurt by the explosion and same for her and so all we have to imagine is he uh hit the sound that he hit the thing away with his stick or his arm while moving himself away and that she was flat on the ground so she would have been closer yeah and she is obviously we can see that she is in a much worse thing uh not only do i think the then as a writer you get to decide whether or not jinx dies when you have that level of like the grenade is pushed away but they don't make it pleasant for her she's basically on death and she goes through one of the most nightmare procedures ever to use something that has been established to heal i think we are meant to believe that if not for this treatment she would have died yeah is all right i guess the only plot on would make sense should she have died quicker i was like i don't i don't know what that means you don't want to be like i don't know i'd have to say yeah a couple people have been citing that you hear the sound of him knocking it away i don't know that you can confirm that i think you can just say it's a sound it could have come from the grenade it could have come from him hitting it but the fact i feel like it's just more of an inference yeah i think it's reasonable to say that that is the sound of him hitting it away well yeah because because essentially what we're trying to do is so echo is alive so what would have happened that could explain that that's essentially the question that we're we have to ask we're trying to like interpreting good faith i like as well we still got half and half in chat being like that's it and then other people being like no they both died this is ridiculous it's like look at the size of the the uh the grenades like we've given you the best we can uh i suppose we just have to leave it to the to the chat at that point um i'm more i'm yeah the threshold of the suspension of your disbelief is not exactly a thing that is the same for everyone yeah and i'm i'm more convinced of them surviving this blast than i am of katelyn surviving yeah i i agree i think i agree yeah i'm kind of running down through it and explaining it yeah i can see we're not given as clear of a display of the power of these grenades as compared to say the firelight explosion thing because for those we saw the after effects marx is i think um ripped off there was blood and gore everywhere everyone practically everyone else died yes the the big part for the that one is there were a lot of explosions this was one um i i think i can believe more so that somebody might be able to survive one big explosion than they would to survive like a dozen smaller explosions because all you need to do is try to minimize one variable rather than avoid death from like a hundred different angles you know it helps that i know is being extremely fast he's very fast yeah that on top of the fact that jinx looked to be pretty much dead except he brings it back with a serum that i think we're gonna find out in season two can do even more than heal uh yeah well i mean we already found out in this uh and and this season does more than heal what are we referring to you've gone to island do you remember what oh and in the finale there's a thing that happened in the finale okay nearly yeah uh there's a thing that happens where seemingly leveraging what happened she's able to do some some crazy stuff oh no i'm not talking about that i'm talking about resurrections oh oh okay right okay we already know dude we've seen the that's the primary ability to give your abilities i said like so healing is another one and then i guess is poor waiting on my part i almost framed it as though healing's upgrade is resurrection but it's like not necessarily understanding is your fault yes yeah you misunderstood that's fine but uh no i i agree that the misunderstanding stems from your uh are we falling apart i'm just it's all right it's all right you know we'll get over fighting at least it's not about goo there is no fight here man that's just i think i thought we're all in agreement um but anyway let's continue yeah i think so i'm agree you okay with me continue and just make sure wow i said let's continue i just want to make sure it's better to get like you know you don't want to be safe and sorry as they say well i guess one thing that i guess i wanted to bring up really briefly as i there you go see i noticed that um it was only one grenade powder is always seen throwing at least three like all the time and i don't know if she's just doing that out of necessity or it's because she's just a fucking she's nuts so i mean she's not always seen throwing three she attaches one to several people in the show she she threw like several at the start she had she had attached several to the board passing by so i don't know like i just figure like one attaches one to the board passing by an episode i was going to say that's just one that's not three okay well i mean it was just it was just a passing thought really i mean just kind of seemed to me like she kept on using multiple grenades and on multiple occasions to the point where i'm thinking like the lethality is probably just a little questionable or if she just does it because it's fun i mean to throw several um yeah the only time i remember there being three was the first time we see her in episode four but from there it seems to be ones now where are we oh yes mel's mum's having a big old bath um i remember finding out apparently by the way that they removed the guy who's massaging her in certain visions of this i can't remember why i can't remember why this particular regions they they got rid of him um so she's just chilling in general i can't i'd like said i've not got enough maybe someone in chat has more info on that but uh i remember being like what the fuck and i saw the vision it's like yeah he's just gone it's like okay i don't know if he's offensive or something um he's offensive he's got the naked girl in the clothes guys like nap get rid of him he's good or she's she's plot significant you can't remember i'm sure they would have yeah i the whole lot of plot he's got a whole lot of plot they just they just remember but they still have her dialogue there well there's just like there's just like a pg of a shirt that's hovering over her the way to do it the chinese censors what was that one region that like censored spongebob by putting like a really bad j-pig dress of over sandy cheeks was that like turkey or something i don't know well because there was a censored version of spongebob well they they put this really shitty looking purple dress over sandy all the time because she's like wearing a bikini so i figured it's like if it's going to be any regions probably whoever did that so she tells jayce he's basically impotent and the council is going to be a problem and uh they're in a crisis and nobody's acting and she says i want you to succeed if you don't heed advice i fear you'll end up slaughtered with your eyes closed like uh okay so with everything else jace has got going on that's a fun addition hey you have problems and you're not dealing with them so you know you're gonna deal with them before they kill you and i think next scene is uh jace really thinking about this he's holding one of the uh little butterfly wings and i think he says uh we need to act before anyone else is killed and uh we know where his priorities are that's for sure something that's super neat about this is when he says that it seems almost a leap from mel and she looks at him frustrated at first and then again because she realizes her mom's gotten to him the best way to explain it um yeah so they just they have a big discussion because vine cater here as well and they're going to talk about what the plan is and they basically say like we should go in by force it's like that could trigger war uh mel tells jace that could trigger war you don't know it but i do it must be our last resort and uh vise silk is never gonna back down at least i think she said that and uh this they end up concluding they shouldn't uh go to war right i think in this scene they they are against it and vise frustrates that means that silk is not going to be stopped which takes us to uh vibe being all sad and katelyn being all sad because this plan didn't work and so vise got to go back to the lanes and katelyn's like well but but but but what about what about everything and she's like it's fucking didn't work out oil and water and she says but what about us yeah and um this is the thing i mean there's not much to say here other than i know a lot of people have actually complained about this being like well that came out of nowhere um i don't think so like it doesn't have to this reminds me of uh the conversation about spider man where it's like where did the relationship come from it's like there isn't really one yet it's just the beginnings of something something's going on that's all they um there's clearly a connection here there's a bit of a bit of tension a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of touch and bit of a bit of back and forth lots of chemistry and clearly katelyn's just realized that like if vi leaves and she stays that's it for that there's nothing nothing more happens and so she says you know what about us and she's like oil and water it's not happening it was never gonna happen so that oh boy are we about to get we are about to but i just want to clarify like the people who complain that this came out of nowhere was like i'm sorry how much how much is there before a character can just be like hey we uh we got we got something i think are we a thing are we something what do we got what's going on here it's not like they're marrying each other it's just yeah there's just yeah it's the slippery slope smaller we literally get married first they meet and then oh yeah uh it seems fine to me but anyway we get a scene i mean if fringy you sounded excited you want to take yeah uh before we do it though i just saw a super chat going i want to read fringy i've noticed slightly these past few e-fabs that you seem to be taking things a bit seriously when jokes are made and you take it in a serious manner relax friggy you're among friends right are you okay friggy i'm a bit concerned to don't take this as condescension just concerned as all now i'm not sure if this is a meme but like if you're referring to the conversation that we just had about oh mohler no see the the onus is on you for poorly communicating you know that was a meme right or um i really think that's playing into the meme that's really funny if not that is really funny that's a really funny meme tell me that was a meme uh i was just gonna say it's a google google the emote capper and just picture that that is the face me and fringy had when saying everything that we said you just proved it right okay feb it's okay feb you missed that vi gave jace jinx's name um remind me what's what happens as a result of that they now know that jinx is the one behind things very well um anyway uh fringy go right ahead uh so we got we got our our boy victor oh yeah this is the thing where victor gets more training than ray but yeah yeah standing out there in the rain let's go of his crutch and just wants to start going for a bit of a walk at first it's it's a little bit tricky it's not used to it i the emphasis on that first foot step as well oh i love it yeah um it's a little bit hard for him to do that at first he's walking we see that little boat there in the background we pan out he's uh he's he's starting to move a little bit faster oh he's he's moving a bit faster he's right he trips but he's running he's going he's going look at him he's going and he's he's out running the boat he's out running the boat unlike before when he was a little youngster in the boat just escaped him he couldn't keep up with the boat now that is what we like to call symbolism uh out there by accident this is this is what is uh known as symbolism you know we've been talking about throughout the whole show how one of uh i guess the core parts of um victor's journey is the idea that we're progressing forward with technology and science and his body is failing him and he'll die he won't be able to he won't be able to keep up he's he's being left behind but now leveraging this technology um he's finally able to keep up not only keep up but he's starting to outrun the boat he's moving faster than the boat he's ahead of it um that's pretty awesome when you talk about symbolism and uh you know uh set up and pay off in terms of the initial set up with the boat in here now of course it's all deliberate because yeah it was all deliberate and then we see him go back to his lab he's motivated to continue experimenting with it now he's gotten and we are like fresh a lot better so yeah yeah there is there is hope now but hmm like what hope for what what do you what are you hopeful for specifically like oh this tech that we're going to be able to use this technology to improve lives and save people or specifically i can use it for myself and not only he's ran out of shimmer as well um he has ran out of shimmer yeah and the implication i think is that shimmer made the process uh let's go yeah yeah um but uh he is too determined to keep going with it it's too much uh to to turn away from now yes part of his body has been fully converted into something else now and uh this seems to be a goal of let's keep it going yeah obviously the problem for victor is i assume body wide it's not like a particular organ or a limb it's that's going to be the method in which he's going to possibly save himself unfortunately as he's planning to do this it's intercut with scenes of a girl coming to visit him someone who's given him some attention in these other episodes but we you know we just don't know anything about it really um cold sky and uh she happens to catch him during his experiment and uh i guess you know he'd look it to a to a casual observer it looks like he's almost getting sucked into the hex core so she decides to try and pull him out are you winning son yeah and uh it costs a big time yeah it's unclear exactly what's happened we have to wait until season two to really know what all of this means but uh she gets disintegrated and it seems the hex core changes as a result like it's consumed a person or something uh yeah it's pretty rough um and of course it's a hell of a lot for victor to deal with yeah she literally do you think do you think victor would have died if she wouldn't have come around like the core would have absorbed victor instead unclear i guess all we can say right yeah i was speculating i was thinking about this yeah it would seem to me the hex core has fused with victor and nothing else it's rejecting everything else so well because his blood got dropped in it at first that's the first sample that it got and now it's fused to victor and nothing else that's why the plants like died pretty much instantly when it's fused why she got disintegrated when they were anywhere close so it seems it's made a bond with him and nothing else from the looks of things and if we compare to when he did it with shimmer it seemed i don't know what i'm gonna call it a pleasant experience but the leg got converted this he put his hand on it and it converted his hand but not for a lack of incredible pain uh and so it's because he's screaming throughout the whole thing so i assume that's the cost without shimmer uh yeah like shimmer is all shimmer is almost like an anesthetic of sorts yeah i got that image right there she's like he's all dusty now um and i think that people probably want to recognize like is it not incredibly inconvenient for her and in a way for him just that she popped up at this exact moment and it's like well kind of yeah yeah yeah yeah it's not and i've seen the funny enough there's a second complaint that she was fridged and i'm like okay could anybody die is that even possible anymore like no what does it mean for a character to die but also mean nothing to anyone else because like people i've seen the threads where they're like she didn't even get a character is fucking ridiculous like yeah she's not a character she's a person who is interested in victor that's that's his pov of her so i don't think it's bad that we have that pov of her as well she's just a person in this world people don't people just accept this kind of thing happening with characters that they like and then they just um ignore it when it's something that they when it's something new to them they'll ignore it i think because like people no one makes this complaint about fucking uncle ben when it's literally his the purpose of his character is to die to the main character yeah yeah uncle fridged uncle fridged it was like oh batman's parents they never even got to have a character man disgusting so yeah i don't know um we did have a whole eef have about fridging but i still don't even feel like i fully understand exactly what people mean when they're complaining about it because i don't know how it doesn't apply to literally every character ever that ever died that anyone reacted to i remember when that that girl said you can't have characters die off screen that's disrespectful brilliant i do remember that i'm afraid which i wouldn't those were hard times yeah yeah we we catch up with old jc boy he's making something and vye gives him a visit being all like hey pussy do fight and then he's like we voted not to like hey that doesn't matter who fights it's kind of interesting by the way the the forging of um the hammer it's it seems his forge is actually powered by hex crystals as well like um obviously they want to imply that there's a lot of special shit that goes into making hex weapons uh that we use the hex crystals to create the hex crystals yes but you know that's kind of the shape of a hammer would you say it looks a little like it you're gonna give him a hammer i'm outside i'm outside hammer time um yeah well my lo and clag are fridged surely they were as well oh yeah that gets mentioned in the threads as well but they had more characters but still is the thing is it worse or better to have more character or less character when you are fridged i don't know yeah isn't the core of the trope that like if they have no character at all that's fridged in which case yeah the parents would be fridged by like any standard that people i think it's like this i think it's like this mid zone where it's like they get introduced and you meet them but it's just so they can die later yeah like they get an inordinate amount of standard right well remember that fridging is referenced to green lantern had a girlfriend who then got put in a fridge and the the gist of it is that they're not really a character they're a prop who dies to prop up someone else it's like john wick a prop who dies who props up someone else but like i don't know that's a problem like i don't well do i need to have that do i need to have that history to understand that a character would be upset that someone who is important in their life died you know imagine i said to you guys like the big problem with marcus is that we never get to know the daughter apparently we're just supposed to believe he cares about it but i don't know what their relationship is yeah it's just like what are you why are you saying that we don't need to know you do you understand what a father-daughter relationship is like excuse me yeah they just excite me to believe that a father loves his daughter i i think it's ridiculous and this is what i mean like she's a motivation for him and what is her character it's like not much of all she's like she exists to be part of a motivation for him and it's like okay but there's no reason why he wouldn't fucking have a daughter and then of course silka would threaten people he loves like why are we why are we here when you enter into any story you're always going to have some level of expectations or inferences that you pull from the fact that you're a human being who is alive and exists in this planet yep in on this planet oh look in the going you're in a planet you exist in the uh in the crust and it's it's real no wait the crust is what what's the we're on the crust we're not in it you can be in the crust though like if you dig a hole well i'm you can be but we're not generally no but i i mean you can be in the fucking mantle if you well that's what i was about to ask uh you know what's the one below the crust there's the out there's the mantle and there's the mantle then the outer core then the inner core right i believe so there is the soft chewy center yeah it'd probably be real toasty and up in in that little mantle there isn't it like isn't it like hot around the like in the mantle that it is in the core or something i don't know because it's the pressure or i'm not one but maybe i'm not i'm not i'm not saying that this is a fact this is something that i feel like i might vaguely have heard at some point i think uh i'm not stating this the core is like 10 000 degrees right um and and the mantle is not that hot so is it the crust upper mantle mantle outer core inner core okay yeah yeah that sounds about right i don't remember learning about upper and lower mantle though i think it was often uh often um you know just just one big mantle there's no need to distinguish between the upper and lower that's what caused the problems and pilt over in the first place the under city and the over city we don't need any of that in earthy the it's all the core i'm no no it's all the mantle fuck i'm convinced all right anyway moving on so vi points out that jace never even looks into the prison cells and that he wants to act but he doesn't want to go like vigilante mode so she suggests they work together and take out the suppliers of shimmer um even though it wouldn't be sanctioned and uh what's what i like about this scene is when she first arrives he's like very hesitant with her um i think he says i can call security and then when she starts to look at and pick up the gauntlet he like tightens his grip on his hammer it's just uh there's a course he doesn't trust her there's a noise check off his gauntlets doesn't know what's going on here they have so much imagery of him with a hammer before his actual hammer comes along like in different ways well yeah i guess we got check off's hammer too i just keep defaulting to the gauntlets um and yeah so they basically agree uh jace has reached a boiling point and he's going to take a lot of enforcers and vi down to one of the shimmer suppliers areas and knock it out basically feels like he's got to do something yeah and so do people just know where this forge is because i was just a little bit confused how she got here when i can't imagine it's a well-kept secret that it's going to be the forge of the science department so she could probably get it get away there um and yeah uh so we cut to all these shimmer people and all the enforcers break in it's a standard raid they're like a kid manages to press a press a button of like the right redemption he's a pinnick button and it seems that silco has already prepared some elements in case they had to go for a fight and it's basically chem tank people they're all in like these little tanks and they get infused with i guess a variant of shimmer and it makes them real fast and uh very quick before they have to fight jace hey we're gonna get there we're almost there right so they fucking obliterate every enforcer pretty much um the first four people to tend to bring up is wait why didn't they kill him straight away why was he like the last person they kill and it's like i don't know i don't know i ain't got anything for that he was in the center of all that wasn't they're all kind of everywhere the guards first you know like it could the thing is that these these creatures are jumping around all over the place like there's no reason to think that they might have even started with him you know he could could have happened um i would say that this is kind of an example of a thing that you just seen a lot of shows and movies and stuff where like the nameless goons uh the nameless faceless like minions get killed but all of the important speaking named characters live even though in universe in fact in universe it's like jace is incredibly significant right so that should that was the only thing i was gonna try and think about using is like maybe maybe they have special orders for jace i don't know but then they try to kill him anyway so which counters that theory so it's out yeah like this there's really not much you can say as to how this happened he just got lucky quote unquote that he wasn't killed straight away um i mean i'm just under the impression that like you know they took him they they took out the guards that were around the area and then they were focused on taking out the people shooting at them because you know bang bang annoying stop the bang bang you know i think that's a better argument than anything else but still they're like leaping at people look at how fast they're going if that jumped on like on jace no chance he's he's gone they're the ones attacking first jace isn't doing anything yet but they're they're going to kill him it's just take care of a bang bang we're fucking rabid and angry yeah all right i will give you that you can argue that if you're one of these cam tank people and you see this a lot of people one of them's holding a hammer the rest have guns i think it's safe to conclude you probably should go for the gun people first yeah i think that's again giant giant glowing hammer you know i mean yeah i look at that hammer if me and you free we're gonna go kill them all and then you were like we should take out the hammer guy he looks i don't know that hammer's glowing i'd be like i i don't know i but i know what a gun does yeah the guns definitely hurt at a rage um so maybe that's good enough and uh we can leave it there but they do sort of slow down when jace is already one left yeah that's the part that you can't really uh um but then vi gets a fucking badass start to this fight i quite like her throughout all of this jace is the one that i take a couple issues with um yes uh she slides down jace was like able to do this well yeah well we can go through bit by bit like that yeah first of all is her intro and the fucking it looks glorious her first it looks like a good cam tango yeah you can take it fucking frame by frame the impact frames are yeah oh god yeah like every frame of this is amazing boom yeah that's right yeah so that would have hurt if you want to convey force yeah this might be a way to do it yep dead the camera shake afterwards like oh it hasn't even crunched yet and that little slobo of of hair connecting to him and then letting it go again where he just blasts off like yeah it's a detail i noticed when i first like watched that little bit frame by frame the camera takes a second to catch up with it as it flies off yeah it just vanishes in the camera it's like wait by the fuck yeah this little look she gives him of like yeah that's pretty cool huh and then wakes it up and then puts her game face on it's just like yeah there's a little nod in the background like vi a whole bunch and uh we've talked about before but the fact that she has so much she has to fight so hard to win her fights makes it much more entertaining to watch absolutely um but yeah and this is definitely a legal legends coup moment because you're like jay's with his hammer and they're going lids and they're going to fight a bunch of goons together it's like all right i'm ready yep i've got my tissues ready oh no and uh vi does that thing again with her arm i was trying to put it out before i don't know if i've picked up all the examples but when she's about to start of a fight i think she does it a couple times in the middle of a fight as well but it's always the same arm that she's readying up i don't know if there's something maybe wrong with it or if it's a tick but it's just cool that it's consistent that's all yep uh yeah the song is pretty awesome as well i don't know if there's a lot i'm very good which arm is she doing that on the right arm right didn't she break that arm it could be that it you could relate it to when the door fell on it um yeah it could be that yeah that arm's a bit it might have healed funny but it still works man look at this frame yeah there are a few left i the impact frames with jayce's fucking and yeah this is like i don't want to so i fucking love his opening attack be that swing swing yeah he heads him up and smashes into that fucking guy the only problem is like i just see the bones disintegrating well it's just like jayce i didn't know that jayce was such a proficient fight well wait i know that's not my issue with this moment and my issue was on the the camtanker i can believe that he can swing around a hammer my issue with his proficiency with the hammer comes a little bit later um it's just that the cam guy just doesn't do anything he just stands there and gets hit um not perfect but still pretty satisfying to watch then every time we get vii she is kicking absolute ass loads of like just block block block counter block counter sort of stuff and just screaming while she's doing it have real quickly uh the sounds of her ringing her gauntlets just before like just as she starts to run off and then the sound she makes as she's running straight from the game that's her ultimate sound and the sound she makes when charging up her q so you're cooing away saying yes well it's from the thing um it's from the thing a hammer a hammer is like a slow impact weapon so it seems like just plausibly it doesn't really work as well in an actual combat environment as it might you know i feel like it's something they had to include because it's like that in the game and practically speaking it's probably not that great for fast combat i disagree i would i would normally agree with you up until we get the the scene in the next episode but wait what's what's the count to go ahead right but i guess i guess i'm you're sort of i was at first and then he kept going and now i feel like you're mixing things up a a hammer so your issue is what exactly so with the size of the hammer it's very large it's a very slow weapon and i feel like the hammer is going to be dead by the time he's made a hit with it yeah the hammer should weigh a million pounds yeah let's okay huge it is absurd let's make it clear very quickly i'm assuming jay's aware of this maybe not but yes hammer war hammers and hammers are a thing in fights however we're not dealing with that environment he had a choice to make whatever weapon he wanted and he went with a hammer that can turn into what is essentially kind of a rifle um meanwhile vise makes way more sense she's making use of tools meant for something else because they suit her uh he could have made anything and he went with something that to be honest with you is not fantastic uh compared to what he could have made because you know what is literally what is stopping him from making a hextech rifle i mean the thing that going for right is the fact that he well he grew up surrounded by hammers he has to be experienced but i don't think that justifies him using it as a weapon well so this is this here this this sequence where he uh he like he goes block and then hits down block again and then like uses the the handle of the hammer or the pommel um he's like he's having a full-on battle with the the guy who's moving really fast to the blade and it's like wait how you doing this like building hammers doesn't mean you're like is this something people someone trained you to do with hammers yeah like when did you ever need to use these kinds of moves with a giant hammer that's a bit of a question mark yeah that's some sick moves you're doing there buddy like it's great but how why where did you learn this yeah he's a little bit of a gary stew in that regard however i will counter that the hex crystals are making the weapons light as seen in the next episode after she's well she's fighting savika that's why this hammer is not as heavy as it could be right fair enough i think that's fair well yeah because these things would be heavy as fuck if they can do what they can do um you could not lift and so i'm willing to believe the hextech jams especially with the anti-gravity features uh they've been manipulated in some way shape or form so that they can make it so the weapons aren't as heavy um oh we know that yeah all right and see this is the thing about taking fights really slowly this thing he does here i'm totally fine with that's fine i think it's totally makes sense and yeah the shield thing shield boy totally fine but that that one little sequence there where he does like a full-on battle with one of them it's really cool i just don't know that he should be able to do that no he's acting a bit too proficiently a bit too quickly yeah he's a little he's a little bit of a gary stew i gotta say jace is a bit of a gary stew he's super duper smart but he's also super duper handsome he's super duper strong he knows how to fight with a super duper hammer it's like okay hold on a minute just a little too well around it don't you think i'm gonna push back on this i i want to push back a little bit too it is just this part that i find to be like otherwise to be fair it's a part of a part it's not even the whole thing yeah exactly very flawed individual yeah like he yeah yeah i'm not actually he is well i feel like that's that's the end of it right you're already disqualified while you can ever see well i mean well i only say he's right he did say a bit of one just being like i pulled back a little bit and called him a bit of one but he's not he's not terrible or anything like that it's just that he's just a little more well rounded than i think any nerd is expected to be so i think what i was a total nerd what i would say is it is specifically his proficiency at fighting in this scene that i'm not a fan of otherwise i think he's just a character like a well rounded character um i don't i don't think uh yeah like i don't i don't really lean towards any sort of like gary stew or anything like that i just i think that it's fine otherwise mary mary stew stuff the reason that that applies is because it's like the universe folding around to make this character look good rather than them earning their skills themselves right a character like that you can just have characters who are really good at anything everything like if they've if they have a reason to be that way like that's that can happen you have characters who are like really good at shit tons of stuff in loads of different ways um but that's why this is a this is the only issue because this is the only time where it breaks into a skill that he probably shouldn't have and that's the thing if someone said but he's familiar with hammers i'd be like yeah i fight incredibly technically i definitely would have preferred it because i guess you've got a hammer thing for the game but i i feel like jay should be fighting awkwardly but with a really interesting and good weapon that he's created specifically for himself which kind of makes it okay and the sense that he's using it in sort of a clumsy fashion and he's kind of frazzled and worried but it's like a shield and uh something it's it's uh maybe a gun or a rifle or some kind it's something not just i'm going to make a huge hammer i feel like they try oh i feel it as well like that uh they like they went you know they got the go ahead of themselves with the choreography because they do make a point of showing that he gets clipped by a blade which like as compared to vi at least is i think them trying to suggest his unfamiliarity with fighting as well as his expressions throughout but again they just think i would have preferred more of him failing yeah i agree yeah the him i think we're missing his like unexperienced fights i think we never got those we never got his like oh i'm i'm losing ground here fights you know i think the difficulty in terms of fights i think what you find difficult though with like conveying him stumbling is in this fight it's like man that that could seriously hurt or kill you if like we consider a stumble considering who is up against but i feel like that's why we don't get that fight because there's not time for it it's like um an opponent where these are highly lethal enemies um yeah maybe they should have depowered them a little bit and made them more less real fast yeah easily go away with enforcers all the enforcers who are trained right trained to be able to be you know to some extent be able to defend themselves i just want to voice a pet peeve as well which is that i fucking despise the giant war hammers like real war hammers real war hammers are like these they're like the size of normal hammers because that's the kind of thing that you could wield right well it's the size of a little hammer that you put nails into the wall or like yeah that's literally how big they are that's a real damage to i'll get you i'll get you picture uh i thought that there was someone like a wedge hammer right like a sludge hammer sized like you know like you have those in combat i think those are only made out of wood okay all right because the reason you don't design hammers what a war hammer is just the fucking service area is so widely spread that it's hard for it to cause that much damage unless you're crushing them against something right because essentially you know a blade isn't going to do much against plate armor right so oh okay i see it's going to do it you just want something it's going to do a hard impact against the plate is the point of a war hammer i'm pretty sure i did watch shads video on this i must just be completely misremembering like i thought that uh that the war hammers were like maces or you know like this is a this is a mace and a war hammer egg so i was pulling up the picture okay right i see yeah i think is it here's the thing right i used to think those little war hammers look really lame and that i don't understand why i hit way in fiction you know they make them much bigger because you know i don't look cool but then i think about like man being hit with one of those would fucking hurt oh yeah like yeah absolutely i can't imagine someone being able to hit me with one something with some like massive unwieldy fucking thing like jace has so like i would just move out of the way is this they're getting ready to swing so it was like now aesthetically i i way prefer the small hammers and i would like to see them represented in media because i think it's the one form of historical weapon that we never actually see adapted faithfully like history is the war hammer we see jace use that little war hammer i think it would look cool i think i think that size would look cool i i he could well he could use it in tandem with a shield which i imagine jace would really want because he's never fought before so and he's not an idiot so it's like i should have something to protect myself because i know i'm not a fighter so i should make something that's defensive like for free imagine him like like hitting someone like real hard with that you know they're fucking done like that something of that size man because no because you know the small the small like point of impact focused on you know that little area is gonna is gonna focus the energy way harder onto once all right which is sure but i mean if we're in like an animated world where we have like we can do really crazy cool shit with this hammer you know what i mean and he does have a fantasy shield or i guess a sci-fi shield and do you remember the the blue shit the hammer does as well it is not a real hammer it is like it appears to be discharging some kind of shock that is here beneath the armor and that's true yeah it it gets a huge huge pass because it is a magic hammer i would say it's you know an aesthetic preference that i have for historically accurate war hammers like it is an aesthetic preference of mine i'll just have to get a pass because it's on those impact right yeah i'm not saying this i'm not saying this is a hole because it is a magic hammer right like yeah on the impact frames of the hits within like that very first one you can see it shatters the entire the man's entire fucking skeleton like it's just it's just obliterates it not essentially um as the scene progresses it's just like i love the combat from vi it's really satisfying to watch it looks like we're taking ages to get right just all these hits that come in and uh yeah she has to dodge each one and some of them are really close calls and then just slip in the counters where she can um using the gauntlets as shields a lot of the time i think i just i find her combat so much more satisfying than jayce's and i think it's literally just because i fully believe that vi is more than ready for this um yeah and the gauntlets give her the variable she needs to be able to take on these guys um but yeah just look at this sequence yeah this one's really cool i'm glorious oh yeah this one yeah jay doesn't want to see it jay that that's fine jay it's jay's pin yeah and yeah just the it's like a wall cover x-rays you see the skeleton oh no yeah boom um and yeah then you get a proper a guma moment a game kuma jayce activates his uh ranged weapon let's i guess you could call it a gun uh primary attack and i think rags this was the time where you were like is this from the game yeah this is what he does in the game yes it is yeah uh yeah it's great and they fucking undercut it those bastards you're enjoying why jayce uses big old kum weapon and he's even like yeah he's super into it and then suddenly as he's firing and firing he ends up shooting a kid blows the whole clean through it's the kids that press the button by the way i figured it was um trying to think of you stupid kid from what i remember because i know people are critical of this i think they said um uh what an idiot kid for being there what what what i mean like yeah fuck that kid yeah there's i don't have much to say about that probably when the kids uh it's it's he's it probably wasn't the kid's full decision to be there he's probably sit there like a picture running around trying to avoid yeah like there's a lot of reason he could end up there what which i was evil this is where i'm saying i'm trying to remember criticism of this i'm doing what i can i know another one but we won't get to it until the beginning of the next episode but um i guess we'll just we'll just carry on unless anyone else has got anything uh obviously that puts a big dampener on this whole scene which for a moment they was kind of like jace was getting not only you know getting rid of this shimmer stopping these horrible monsters but vengeance and justice for all those enforcers that were killed but killing a kid that's that's that doesn't kind of a downer yeah and then uh one thing go ahead either of you go ahead jay well i always appreciate it about the scene right from the beginning is that it's presented um with the perspective of the people who are being raided in mind just as much of the perspective of the enforcers it's not it's it's you get the sense of oh these guys are coming in here to kill those other guys right and all the um all the fucking or all the the impact that comes with that from the perspective of both people there it's not just yeah fuck them up let's go until you sort of get lost in the action with jace and uh vye and then again as soon as you get lost in the action you get a rude reminder hey maybe let's not get lost in the action because killing people doesn't actually that cool yeah yeah very again do you carry it away dipshit comes across again as mature storytelling you don't want to just ignore the parts that are not working for you with your vibe like go away other parts um yeah vye doesn't take this that badly jace is having loads of trouble and i think the point is just that this is kind of normal for vye like well yeah that's it that's another victim of all of this bullshit and i think she said well that conversation i think happens i can't remember if it's the end of this episode or the beginning of the next one but um it's the end of this episode now it's uh it's pretty much it well yeah because the other thing is that after seeing that he's killed the kid and that that is a direct result of all the stuff that he's decided to do i think looks up and sees loads of kids they've all surrendered and they're all but like there's so many and that this is gonna keep happening if he continues that's just the price um which is a lot to bear yeah jace is quite a a lot of character to him jace was just a scientist yeah yeah i just wanted to do his little sign stuff so like yeah and i was like no no you're the head of everything do stuff oh okay and then kaila just naked blue a hole in kid whoo yes go finally god quality content please like took us this fucking long yeah she's probably having a big old think about all of the everything they do it very artistically the whole thing um then we get and i remember when i first saw it i was like that was so fucking cool and well done uh just the she uh comes out of the shower and she sees that the the monkey image from jinx has been drawn into the mirror and uh as she's realizing that we have a shot with a i guess the the mist in the background is clearing up and there she is yeah yep how awesome does that look it looks amazing like you can barely see her as it is in your she's only just now becoming visible like the viewer can only see her just as katlyn does so it's like oh shit i don't know where and it's a bit worrying because the last time we saw her was almost dying going fucking nuts getting resurrected and only thinking about how much katlyn has destroyed her chances of yep being back with five she's got a big old hate boner for katlyn now and that it's not the only boner that was in this scene it's episode eight yay it's from the last fucking episode can you believe it god damn what are you doing here oh my goodness all right today we're doing wow incredible and i don't see why i wouldn't just continue straight away so let's do it so yeah i think we open with uh the jace and the vi having a little chat about this and vi posts a little bit of cringe she says you didn't have a choice and he knew what he was signing up for and i i think even jace is like oh right uh damn yeah uh bitty it's both statements it's like of course the whole point of him feeling like this is that he had the choice and he made the choice this is the result of the choice and then he signed up for it it's result yeah the fucking child they don't know what they're doing he's kind up to get shot by that well yeah if it was an adult that'd be one thing but but i like it because yeah vi's only goal here is to get him back on track we need to keep you know beating the fuck out of silco um he has like a great line where he says um the next parents to get a message like i i don't even i don't even know where to send it like because that's something you would have dealt with topside potentially what does he even do when when kids are killed in and stuff here like what does he even and he just says do we leave him here and uh she says he doesn't even know what to do what happens next uh she says you've always been a part of this you just never looked it in the eye and it's like yeah her frustration comes from the fact that this is common it's once again a lot of the counselors have no idea that any of this even happens yeah you are always part of this like you're part of the system and this is a systemic problem yeah yeah you can choose not to acknowledge it if you want but i think it's part of why she's so frustrated like this is your reaction it's like you don't even know and of course when they first talked he had no idea what happens in the prison either and how fucking annoying is that yep especially when he's part of the group that's making all the important decisions every important decision yeah pretty much um but yeah she makes it clear she ain't stopping here and then there's just a great like take those off like and then just for a second you're like oh shit because uh yeah he doesn't want it he wants to wind this down but she isn't stopping um this is the thing when i was watching this scene i was like as much as i wouldn't be against having an action seat of viva's jayson everything like just for the cool factor i don't think it matches jace right now to fight her no way no way very pleased that all of the you know energy just deflated out of him he just walks off she's a full on brawler she's full on ready to fight every last person there is but he has just experienced how much he does not want to do violence not to mention i'm pretty sure he's aware that he wouldn't really stand a chance against vye anyway no i don't know a lot of enforcers man you know there's a chance faster than bullets and i imagine he knows his hammer better than she knows those gauntlets uh in terms of their powers she can roll better than him but you know if he activates the shield and it catches her off guard then one good hit to her i imagine the hammer would maybe be able to smash those gauntlets i think the hammer kills her on impact if it's like a proper yeah even if it hits her gauntlets it doesn't matter i don't think he stops the fight because he thinks he'll lose i think he just doesn't want to kill her uh yeah yeah yeah no there's a criticism putting that on the list of why he wouldn't do that there's a criticism people highlight here of is he seriously just leaving two gemstones to her um the fact is this is what this scene's about he's gonna have to kill her if he wants them back yeah and it doesn't want to so he's not ready to do that there's a rough realization he's dealt with the fact that he's killed someone a kid rather uh there's just a lot going on in his head he knows that he's giving those up that's the big reason why he wants you to drop them they are very powerful but the thing is he's just not willing to kill her i'm not sure people would be citing as a problem that's the decision he's made i thought that so what i would say is uh zorn having the gemstone is a big reason why all this drama is happening in the first place and he's giving up two right there and it's just like the only response to that that works that is is just the fact that he's not willing to kill her there's nothing else he can do yeah if it was silcoe there with the gauntlets on that would be different but and he probably can recognize that yeah but she's not like evil so that helps yeah yeah um we also see in the in the in the white shot shimmer is apparently made with some weird goopy stuff that's hanging from the ceiling looks kind of gross oh i don't know if you've you've seen that he said he said goopy all right there's a difference between yeah no there's like a almost like a hard thingy i i do yeah it's like pumping it's like purple yeah it's like gross and that's i guess that's where they produce the shimmer with which is gross it's like a little sack of something i don't know what that is exactly but it is it is pumping whatever it is um yeah via smashes it much to the chagrin of silcoe who is about to discover this and honestly if you only watch this show from silcoe scenes he is just constantly having to deal with new problems he's just like look kid to me right now this is happening too like okay breaking up me i was like when will this villain get a break exactly what a good guy i wish he would get his break i'm sure he's breaking the next episode yes um he says it's been a while since topside got this bold and um they're like yeah we need like marcus was fucking useful and then he's like we can always buy another just a kind of proactive thinking though in the background the lady from the the evil council is like nah do something about the fact that my son died and that's where the second criticism i've seen comes in with oh how convenient or inconvenient i don't even know that the kid happened to be her kid um i don't know what difference i don't know i don't know i don't know why i don't know why so they've taken a huge loss consequential regardless yeah like i don't really see that i mean one could argue that that happening fuels her to make a decision in the coming scene um but i don't know that it's unfair that they would be critical of silco regardless of it being her son that died yeah just so close could we make the argument we make the argument that um because a lot of named characters just bump into each other like you know echo and heimerdinger right there's no reason that they would have met each other specifically rather than anyone else that the world is made to feel quite small because of all these interpersonal links that are ultimately just coincidences those that's the problem with trying to categorize them i've brought this up before but just they seem to me to be events rather than conveniences or inconveniences there's no nobody really strictly benefits or doesn't benefit from these things happening they are things that happen i don't you know yeah but i mean for me echo echo meeting heimerdinger was like man it just makes the world feel smaller well um they're both traveling and they're both aiming to be on the main bridge and that's what they both were when they met like it's there's there's some pieces there that connect them i suppose that's true you're right uh because echo says he's waiting there because he can't figure out how to get back without being like very vulnerable while doing it and then if he's you know i just assume he's waiting maybe on the leg or contacts something like that but i mean we could have made more reason for them to have bumped into each other i don't disagree with that people are pointing out something that i was thinking about why would the mob boss's kid be working in the factory i was about to point that out yeah so that's actually where i think kid is there's a more interesting conversation to be had as compared to whether or not he was killed um i don't know i don't know he doesn't depends what he was doing there yeah maybe he's like an oversteer of some sorts well no i mean there's other kids i wouldn't just that he was there to just keep an eye on stuff just just just have a look gain experience maybe she literally wants him to gain work experience or something right maybe i'm trying to tough love him well literally so literally he could be there under her orders talk to him learn the business just get around have a look around whatever fine just hang out with that's what we're doing we're shimmer people we're doing shimmer and you know what if you see people slacken off fucking tell him to not slack off i could have been press the button he doesn't have to just be like some kind of mining personnel or some like you're imagining the worst job ever it didn't have to be the worst job ever could it just as someone just said maybe he's just the alarm boy it's like maybe oh my god they're coming maybe maybe he was doing some like mining and this parent like thinks that yeah that'll teach him like to be a man or whatever right yeah i don't see why that isn't an impossibility it's like it's purely reasonable that could happen uh and so and besides we we get a fucking banger line from silco once again as a result of all this uh she's complaining she's like you're gonna fucking do anything about them killing my son you little masters and silco says uh we all mourn the loss of your son at least we have the solace of him dying for the cause rather than some petty personal dispute as so often occurs is this fantastic line because it's not like you could if you fucking dumb ass you can interpret that as him being like nice it's like isn't it great that you're so died for a reason but it's like it's a threat he's basically just said shut the fuck up you if you try and like do anything like if you do anything over this as a result of your like petty insecurities about the fact that this is all my fault it's like you're gonna be the one that fucking dies and the oh it's just we all mourn the loss of your son the way he delivers it like i don't actually give a fuck like so why even bring it up also very important someone just said in chat i am a trungos so i thought that was important to point out is it trungos watching efapa trungos that's heaven right there i know right that's on sandpicks in discord sandpicks in discord efap chat sandpicks in discord no i mean oh god uh i'm i'm going to go to discord efap chat efap chat right now you can do that bye better not be lying to me goodbye get the chick pig rumbo the chick pig rumbo uh how long the efap chat is currently full of hi jay hi so the the scene closes with him basically being like savika help with the body and then walks off and all of them there are just like hmm that that silco hmm what a gloom but we'll see about that we're getting uh victor's having a day um he's he's he's having a day he's he's holding the fucking glasses of sky and a damn face flashes at it uh oh the intellect i don't even know what that is uh where are you creepy flash oh yeah that just like that's helpful for him uh oh sure i didn't even notice that oh boy really really doing bad and this i think would be something we'll end up citing as the seasons go on of really the first time that victor's endeavor has cost him significantly would you say that this magic this hex crystal would you say that it objectifies women and yes it turned into like a mist in a way but i still think that's fair yeah um and he starts reading all of her notes and there's several notes in there about victor specifically and it's very sad because he fucking killed her kind of you know if there's anything else anybody wants to say i can move on to the next scene it's not and it's tragic it's uh it was it was rough to see it is a tragedy he does eventually pick up his stool and go to just like i hesitate to say destroy the hex core because i don't know if that would destroy it but he goes to hit it uh but then he stops and then the hex core like zaps him and he goes unconscious i don't know if we're supposed to gather from that that the hex core will not allow him to destroy it anymore because they they're connected yeah i think the uh i think the hex core is kind of created a bit of sentience at this point because like yeah he walks away but then the hex core is all like yeah bitch it's what i thought just zaps him yeah this is one of them threads that uh we don't have enough answers of by the end of the season so what we can say really is we will find out whatever that's supposed to mean ultimately um moving on now he has to like real context for the things heimating i was talking about so i just mentioned oh yeah that's and it's i'm imagining only the beginning uh yeah so mel's pissed at his mom because she's pretty sure that she convinced jace to do the flooming and uh then his mom gives her a bit more info the man who killed your brother does not believe the score is settled and she says uh uh mel says i only wanted to protect the city from people like you i can't believe you'd use this city to cover your own ass she says arse not even ass is great she's more british um and then her mom advises her let the war unfold we need that weapon then you can come home so uh we've already got one of our several in this nice city nice we got several big choices for certain characters to make this episode as is tradition for climaxes and stories mel has got welcoming back to her home on the table now if she can get the weapons created um then we go back to victor in such a sad sad scene he's got he's got her ashes and he just says uh i'm sorry i don't know where you would have preferred i'm sorry and just drops him in yep love that line yeah just trying to pay a little bit respect as best as he can i guess a little pause like trying to think what the fuck else am i supposed to say yeah not a situation he wanted to find himself in uh but yeah we get a parallel he looks over the edge much like a certain jay sted and he comes very close step like a certain jay sted am i interrupting yeah i don't think back to back um it's like poetry right and this is where we get this is honestly like a really hopeful scene uh jay says like the weapons are too much i'm going to destroy the hammer and then he's like no no destroy the hex core like we need to stop this has gone way too far he says well in the pursuit of the line did you want to say no no go ahead he's victor says in the pursuit of great we failed to do good we have to make it right mm-hmm that's pretty uh emblematic of the entire science like subplot of this whole show that's great um and yeah this is the thing it's not just he's not just angry at jay's anymore for things jay's has done he is now just as salty with sky's been fucking executed which uh we don't see the repercussions of in terms of other people recognizing it and i think we just have to assume that it hasn't become public knowledge just yet because she would have just disappeared quote unquote i don't know i imagine that comes yeah yeah imagine it comes up next season but yes uh what are you saying das oh well i was just saying that like the uh the line in which you know you need to destroy the hex core was basically done like subtle in a more subtle means because victor says you've got to destroy it and jace looks over at the hammer and he thinks that victor is referring to the hammer and then victor corrects him and says no no no the hex core you have to destroy that thing because i can't and i just i just like how he's just assuming that he means destroy the hammer and they're both he agrees but i think both of them are back on the same wavelength after having been divided for a while yeah they're both gone on just a little gesture kind of just kind of shows it you know both gone on separate journeys and they're back to where they kind of were after both of them had some big dramas that neither are aware of really yeah um they both flew close to the sun and both got burned in like different ways so um i love this scene too it's a silco one uh his forget so he's dealing with a lot we've been over this he's always dealing with a lot he sees like one of my favorite scenes i just this one's like oh man i was i was my eyes were glued to the screen for this savika pulls up a chair for fin she even brushes it off for him and he just brazenly comes in without an appointment obviously a silco doesn't like react with shock just curiosity like what is that world is what now yeah like really okay and he has an eye on savika too um and i think he asks a question to weird looking lady brisa's yo with him are you uh and i think the way i watched the scene he's looking at her but i always wondered if that question's meant for savika not her yeah i think that's what i got that he's that he's asking savika more than anyone because of course those two are betraying him he doesn't give a fuck about those two savika betraying him's important though um and he says what bore us through those old times was loyalty and i now share seats with parasites like oh seven is andre ryan moment oh yeah so yeah does that i think fin is like um this is the day you die and savika raises up a blade pretty cool visuals for that as well try and fetch them but uh swipes flash and it's not quite clear who's dead but like yeah narrative wise i was like i don't think they would kill silco here um but you know it's not like it's impossible for this show to do something like that and uh the great detail is just that he's panting he does not know if he was going to live through that swipe or not yeah he was talking a really big game about loyalty but at the end of the day couldn't be sure i mean savika betrayed vanda so yeah he's she's a pretty uh two-faced bitch you know even if like high confidence in savika that's still a blade swiping really close to you oh yeah and yet look at how the blade just sleeps slips out here as well just looks awesome i like how he doesn't actually want to die that's you know that's neat how the idea of dying well he well he puts on he like he puts on a big face right puts on a big face that doesn't feel like the correct idea he puts on a big blade i'm scared it's time to put on my just second let me put on my big face for this it's an important occasion but um you know he doesn't act he um he's he actually does still get affected by the prospect of dying because that's something that he doesn't want i like that that seems you know it seems like a character dude it's got shit to live for this fucking image it's so great like as he's talking she's raising the blades like but yeah even from that shot it's like oh unclear but i guess she could have i'm pretty yeah and like and i like as well that they reveal that silco is alive by having his cup slice falling down showing that he's okay and panting yeah it's fucking great because he was not sure that savika wouldn't tell him and the the most interesting part as far as i'm considered i don't think she was sure yeah she looked really unsure she had the moment to act and she wasn't really sure about it you just tell in her face but um yeah loyalty came through and uh i think he says something like uh i can't read the line no i was actually talking about the girl's son you know he's like that would have been the price i was going to have your son killed for this but i guess we're ahead we're already ahead of this yeah yeah yeah we're ahead on that account this is like oh my gosh get out can you say anything that's not cool i don't think so talking about killing children is cool though he's pretty good at it uh were you tempted and she said not for that weird or something like that implying that yeah i mean if the right guy comes along it's a good line because it tells you everything she's about like i'm gonna follow number one if i don't think you're the best person for zorn then i'm not gonna keep following you that's why i didn't follow vanda yeah um basically get your shit yeah oh then we got i think metal's favorite scene and so now i'm gonna make him describe it fine i'll do it so uh as you seen before we get to this i guess it's like a wall at the at the water or something it's not a bridge it's a wall thingy i see it gets like a little little little letter with the hammer symbol it's like oh shit that's like jay's thing like that's that's the his house symbol i think it was if i remember correctly yeah the symbol of house talus yeah talus exactly so they they meet up up there and they basically they want to talk about how they could come to terms uh and i think silco i'm not sure about the the order anymore but you can correct me on that if you want to um i think silco says like oh you you attack my my facility and then you want to want to trade that's kind of weak uh so why would you do that uh and he basically says okay i want free trade free access just one thing quickly i was gonna point access right at the beginning it's just like look at the posture difference oh yeah hanging over a bit and i think the first thing uh i can't remember whose line is this is it silco's or jay's is one of them says um i was reminded of what brought us together the threats beyond our walls and it's just a obviously the place they're at all these cannons aimed out to the rest of the world yeah i i think that was jay's i think that was jay's yeah jay's is that yeah the the implication being they're meeting here because this place represents the border between piltover and zorn versus the rest of the world yeah yeah but go ahead uh so yeah the silco basically says okay i want free trade and free access to the hextech gates and i want my free nation of zorn so they want to be independent from uh piltover uh and then jay's basically says okay but you have to stop with shimmer and he's like halfway there already because they destroyed the one facility i guess yeah uh and jinx and silco doesn't like that part because he immediately goes to protect her it's like oh she was working for me so you can have me instead and then jay's just says the line we can't make a deal with the snake it then cut off its head we need someone to be responsible which is another great line yeah and he also says we all have we all have our shitty parts to play get me jinx and you get your nation of zorn and then he just leaves yeah jay's chat has opened this scene pretty hardcore actually jay's is such a mega shed and it's so great because silco's slightly upset sorry yeah it's like i notice how he's all he's he's kept his eyes locked on jay's this whole time like he's in control but the moment that jay's asks for jinx his eyes start to divert to the side a few times like get shifty like oh yeah absolutely right she was actually under my orders yeah because he's not in control this scene now because it's like it showed a weakness and it's like whoa because he arrived here all confidence like oh look he did one attack and now he's he's cucking out and wants to do some little trade what a what a dingus and as many would want us to point out the choice he's just being given is vanda's choice yep yes yes it's just super interesting because uh normally the protagonist gets the choice at the end here with the antagonist giving the choice because does he does uh just jay's explicitly says like oh i just want to save you because you wouldn't win this war we wouldn't massacre you well yeah there's a really cool interaction where he was like you play you tip your hand you you showed like the fact that we're meeting after you do your attack shows that like you don't have the balls to go through with it and then jay says like uh no i'm worried that i'm going to absolutely obliterate you yeah and like i even silk was kind of surprised by that response just like absolutely okay that's so great because he's right he only used two hextech weapons well look how effective they are yeah exactly in the last time they did it now they've got even super duper tech um yeah they might have shimmer but that won't be enough to uh destroy or take over it build over there's a small interaction here as well oh yeah there you go uh that's actually fair jace knows the name jinx thanks to vai um anyway he goes to pull out his demands i think and jace doesn't flinch and uh you know like because it could be a gun or whatever and i i think uh silk was actually impressed and he doesn't like plants the paper against his coat he doesn't really wait for him to get his hand out he just goes blank yeah i just think these two i'm just like i think the silco noticing he's not quite useless this jace guy he's yeah yeah uh it's really really good scene it's really cool because uh it's the silco's always had all the power and all the conversations and he gets exactly what he wants almost immediately at the cost of something he loves it's like wow yeah and and and just it's it's actually a pretty straightforward deal and it's reasonable yeah it's heavily reasonable it's just it's the one thing that he really doesn't want to give up get me the terrorist who attacked my city and i'll give you all the stuff you want especially when thinking deal four zone it's amazing deal like they could get off with basically everything for one person but fortunately the person is jinx and the silco is not gonna gonna give her away i think we don't know quite yet what decision he's gonna make he's just really upset about this though yeah which lines up with everything we've seen so far and um it's especially awkward because she did all of that to impress him back in episode four yeah and now look it's his unwell we'll get to that yeah i just love that line with us we can't make a deal with this snake and then cut off its head and then immediately following up with we all have our shitty parts to play it's like damn you're right i think i think this scene is like a testament to how far jacers come like as a character yeah after all of this fumbling around trying to figure out what the hell he wants to do like with all of this energy and potential no idea how and where to throw it i'm competing voices as well now like his voice is a lot louder in his own head he's figured out what he thinks is right yeah exactly which i think is a larger theme in the show maybe in terms of you know personal identification someone said silco is not thanos here that's true he's much better than thanos is that really an o statement like thanos is pretty good in like by one movie but uh in one movie yeah and then in the second movie where is a fucking clown just a giant clown yeah like a very much a clown in that film people say just shots fired that should be controversial shots fired was that ever i'm actually kind of surprise people don't agree with that i i oh he said he said i met not as good as sacrificing his daughter true oh that's much better at doing that oh i see okay that's true yeah yeah yeah he did then we had a scene of heimadinger seeing the sanctuary and being thoroughly impressed specifically that it's so amazing what you can all do in such little time and then he's like yeah well when your life depends on it uh there's a lot of stuff you get done which is kind of interesting to think about with everything that's happened with heimadinger he's got such wonder on his face and it just makes me happy that heimadinger is now in a position where he can help some people who really need it while also making up for maybe a lot of mistakes he's made in terms of not taking care of the undercity as part of piltover yeah i i hope to see more of that in a certain next season yeah uh okay and it's cancelled no yeah no start the line in response to talking about the form is quite important as well as there's something like you can't just give people what they need to survive you have to let them live as well yeah give them what they need to live hmm good shit which is part of the more you know expressive side of what you can do with science and uh ingenuity and then we get a lot of people's pick for best scene in the show uh yeah this is a strong one this is also one of my favorites silco has everything he wants now everything he's tried to get since as early as he could probably remember it's all on the table he just has to and what do i what do i lose but problems yeah yeah um and he says a thousand times i've imagined this moment the boy didn't even haggle and what do i lose but problems it all makes sense now it all makes sense now brother echo said the same thing as a kid remember that um what about jace yeah jace didn't haggle yeah oh right yeah yeah um and yeah and you gradually realize he's at a statue dedicated to vanda jace's character involvement is that he does not learn to haggle yes just say it it all makes sense now brother is there anything so undoing as a daughter literally fucking that is referenced like everywhere related to arcane that line yeah just so important to the entire season yep he should have just said bitches be trifling what's pretty great about this scene as well is that at this point in time you're not quite sure what decision is going to make yeah um but it's just really there's nobody around you know this is like the most the clearest expression of how he feels about um about something's pretty cool to his character well pretty cool pretty much at his core um yeah it's really great and then but this shot is by the way before they reveal it you see this shot you can just make her out yeah yeah oh yeah a little bit of hair could also be fringy that's what a fucking great shot it's a really great shot look at him yeah because fucking silk goes had his thing like throughout the entire season of you have to stop at nothing like that's what power is and that's how you get what you want there is a base amount of like you need to be willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals and of course he has been willing to sacrifice things with his until now into the end of the city but nothing quite so personal to him what's his echo under under thing he's never had to like give up something that he personally cares about or at least it doesn't seem that way not on this level at least pause one out for vanda to yeah yeah as a gesture of yeah like i get it now as someone said it's interestingly allowed that statue to even exist respect for a fallen brother so i think he's got a lot of mixed feelings about vanda yeah plus it would make him look really really bad it would make him look bad to us it to a certain extent yeah because there's still people who like vanda vanda was still like a lot of vanda and tass down his statue i would still say like vanda whether or not he became the lie that silco is going to tell it's like he would still have represented the the beginnings of you know saving the under city yep yeah jinx is in a bad way um and so seeing her here and look at these eyes she's already thinking like jesus christ silco is gonna give me up um for reference abandoning me she's basically at critical she doesn't know what to trust at all in any way shape or form anymore plus she's got she's shimmer boosted and she's just gone through like the worst torment she's probably ever had in her life she wants answers now um and so that's why she's gotten katlyn already and this is why she's with silco um she's in a bad way but we'll come back to that but now we've got a big ol fight scene pick fight scene they have like uh there's two little little guards outside a little tank tank bros and i think savika spots something through the door that implies they've been beaten up and so she's already getting ready for like something bad is about to happen yeah there's like a blood splatter i think um you notice is it first and then she basically tells everybody to get the fuck out so she and vi can have their final fight it's funny to me by the way like there's memes about how they constantly have fights throughout the season it's like it's twice two fights i guess it can feel like more i don't know uh so i guess this will be one of them moments of just showing some of the cool bits in the fight this the track is pretty awesome yeah it's um and they they're pretty rough they rip the fuck into each other it's a really violent fight a violent fight yeah i like the first grab she gets and her and throws her also ruined savika during the throw is like what the fuck is happening what magic bullshit is this a weight uh in the middle as well when vi takes off one of her fucking gloves to go and get a drink while savika catches her breath i love that part i also love the um flings the glass at savika yeah savika's just like fucking fuck off annoying um yeah they don't show us a lot of the fight it's a lot a lot of it's from the outside and then uh yeah vi just looking to have a break which is really fun to put in fights yeah because it's fights are exhausting if you didn't know like this you move a lot it hit it kind of hearts the hearts yeah and look she does the thing with her arm again they mom yeah uh like that i don't know yeah uh i'll try to get the shot here it is i think copyright makes this awkward but yeah it just it really does come across as like don't do that you don't need to do that this is a fest fight come on um and i love the the yell vi does before flipping the pool table because it's probably pretty heavy she's like screaming right out of it's like again look at these fucking frames awesome as hell we saw savika's blade but there it is swish god that's a surprise and a half i guess yeah yeah look on my face throughout the entire little bit um yeah uh savika kind of beats her ass at this point because she keeps going to try and block these like big old blasts uh yeah and it just starts to just pull up more with the juicy juice well this this spends savika's power when she does each of these moves and then she has to okay yeah she even lands one of the the sword thing on one of the gauntlets and it's like burning her and she screams again it's just like yeah be hurt it's a fight rounds of quits is woo um yeah and savika stabs the blade right through the gauntlet and it fucks with the uh power core i guess of it and suddenly it's really heavy yep and uh yeah if i don't know that this sword even like necessarily makes it a completely uneven fight but i just lose this because she she doesn't know what the fuck's happening so she's caught completely off guard she doesn't know how to block this thing or when she should counter yeah it's not the usual fight um and then we get a little chat from an old friend because vi's about to be fucking wasted and while yeah savika's repowering the arms she's putting in uh more shimmer that's a interesting design change by the way because she does that then you are after the shimmer tank thingy on the first one gets shot off yeah this one has like the god element and stuff so you wonder if she did that because it can't be shot off as easily this time around and i guess it lets her regulate the income of shimmer yeah like it goes in when she puts the thingies in it rather than just pumpkin whenever it feels like it when she was charging the arm it seemed to like affect her body in a bit i don't think she wanted that to happen anymore so she came up with a better method something a little less contact heavy to her actual body someone said why doesn't she see a glimpse of vanda playing the guitar at his porch it's like a fucking game uh oh yeah vanda says your god needs work i wish i could say it gets easier but i'd be lying he still needs you they all do get back up yeah more than enough to get it back up just get back up and just a reminder of how much band is awesome only three episodes you got him before you know yeah and really it's like two and a half left a good impact what can you say um but yeah she gets back into the fight and she fucking wrecks savika with um like an energy fieldy move that bounces her up for a second and it gives her a chance to grab the arm and pull it so hard that it just rips at the seam which would be at a body no she had that energy field move she had no idea i don't think she had any idea she had it you look at the look on her face like what the fuck but then she just capitalizes on it's like nope roll with it she's in the air she's defenseless destroy the game well and uh it's not just that but i think that it's more than reasonable for this it looks to be like if you were mining and there was some kind of uh collapse that this is what designed to prevent this collapse from killing you yeah reactive and you bring your ultimate cover yourself from something above yes yeah yeah something like that looks together well yeah and that's the thing we've seen it with jayce's hammer there was a similar power so i it's not hard for me to believe that that was something that was in the gauntlet it is a part of jaysa's design he doesn't want to make weapons he really does want to help with weapons allowing allowing the shield to come out of something as like an emergency thing like yeah dude that's what jayce would do that's the thing with humans man we took the nuke just a standard tool and we turned that into a weapon good job like wait what was it what was it full before like oh you know purely decorative purely decorative um yeah i just like as well that something's gotta give is the uh is the phrase but if you pull really hard where is it gonna rip on this line and it's like probably where savika's arm connects to savika's shoulder that's gonna be the weakest point look at that fucking face from vai too damn yep she yanks it off gives her a good gut punch and throws her into a into the wall and it's it's an interesting moment because savika's not dead she's definitely not killed her but this is i've won like the fight is over i won and um she screams so why does she do that oh sorry i just means how like i i figure it's just i don't know she's just overwhelmed as shit that stuff's actually going right for her i guess it doesn't look like a particularly happy scream so it's really tough to tell what's going on through her head i mean you got better insight than me go for it my take would be that combined with all the normal pressures this was actually something of a goal she's had since savika and many betrayed vanda this is like representative of some form of justice for vanda for which she has received none so far yeah justice this this is a big bit of closure right here there's been gunning for what seven years is yeah oh um yeah the you know i don't know if you've talked enough about vibe but i like her quite a bit he does a good ass yeah man does she have to work to get those things to happen that she wants to happen and it's not even seconds later she's like silco because he's the he's the last one she's got a fucking obliterate and she goes to pick up the uh the second gauntlet and look at what they do with this framing and yeah it's just safe to assume that drinks would have wanted to collect by as well she probably watched the fight um and she says bravo sess knocks her the fuck out and i've seen two criticisms one okay how did jinx get in that place without vye realizing um i mean she's a little bit distracted i'm trying to beat the hell out of that one you know it's such a fucking frustrating question it's like man if only was there anything else going on and is jinx capable of sneaking up on people anyway and does she have any variables right now that make her fast no yes well that's like uh yes to all of them yes yeah none of them is like battering to me yeah just battering um and then the second criticism wow vye doesn't even react to the sound of uh powder talking she's tired i just said they're like we're talking about her like a second it's just yeah the woman is fucking barely awake like can you chill someone in chat just wrote vye didn't place awards well y'all are gonna have to finish it up because i need to go damn we go so close so get close but you're gonna have to round out the end because i have to be on my way for tonight who's your favorite character that's probably jace um but there's a lot of uncommon pick by the way it should not be he should be a top tier pick i i i like jace a lot but um i think there is a reason why is a less common pick um not not for lack of being a great character but more given the competition i'm i was i'm tormenting jason silco um it's tough to say wow so uh on the basis of who's the most popular and least popular where does jinx sit for you um not too interested uh she's very well written just not something i have much of an interest in in terms of like a character i guess that just doesn't quite do it for me but he's very well written in in i guess short terms do you think that in the mold of characters like i just to say the harley quinn archetype feels like it's a little bit too reductive but in that mold how do you think that she compares to like other characters in that mold i can't think of any that are better i mean she would be at the top i assume like i can't no one that i can think of comes close to that unless i'm just forgetting one for some reason i assume she's the best roby's holly quinn oh no uh the fact that she got three movies and it's basically yeah in three movies we know practically nothing matters it's so hard to it's it's so hard to see like they they always try to characterize harley quinn as like oh this this this really poor soul and everything but she's like oh look how she deals so quirky but it's like it's when when we try to i don't know what it is about harley quinn i mean she's funny and all in like the batman animated series and stuff but i don't know man when they try to really characterize her i have trouble believing that she's gone from a doctor to a crazy person just by talking to joker i just i don't know it that's a difficult one yeah that if you were to write the scenes that drive her to you know fall in love with them and simultaneously kind of lose her mind and stuff it's like yeah that'd be tough to write that someone should do it well yeah you know like i really like i really liked the way they did it in suicide no where it's just like where it's just like yeah she fell in love with him like yeah you know you know the way yeah that happens that's just you know that's what happened shut up what do you mean that doesn't make any sense you're a bad person uh so i i guess if that's done i'll go ahead and i'll leave well i'll when we see you again i might ask you just some basic end of show questions just so people get answered you know like favorite scene favorite episode if you have any of those like you know just standard normal questions but until then we sure yeah absolutely i will see all of you later bye later on later on the episode boy good boy and it's funny as well he is like this is it now though i think the all we get is like scenes the piltover council talking and the final scene uh this like the main thing we get so you have good ol jay says my recent unsanctioned activities have taught me that we are not fit to rule those in our undercity they are right not to trust us mel was right victor and i have one final proposal peace and they're already like um we do cut back and forth to these two big scenes so i'm not sure how we should go about this maybe we should take it with that scene first in its entirety up until like right at the end and then uh and then just go from the yeah so the council scene makes sense first right up until listen point yes yes uh yeah okay um i'm trying to remember they they propose sovereignty and peace and they're all like and then we get a i think is the next time we return to this the shot of mel putting down a family ring and then saying i agree with councillor talus's proposal and i think what we're supposed to gather from that is that if she starts the train we can get the rest of them on board yeah and uh yeah this is huge for mel because this is the decision between her house and what if she's wanted a whole life or the violence that the war will bring um and she ends up choosing to go with peace with jace's side and i think we're probably in the clear for saying nothing more until yes yeah that's probably it i think jace specifically says he made a deal with uh silicone right yep i think he said that yes i'm out about it yeah they're very heads well look at the fucking tecno union leader look at him he's just they're not happening fuck you jace eat shit uh which would bring us to the beginning of the big old lost scene so what's really cool and i i planted a flag for this in the beginning of the first episode when good old uh vye wakes up the first thing she sees is the uh i think you knew the name of it as well right theo this device that's what she calls it yeah she's jade jinx's own version is she's made one and it's just like it's so quick and you don't have to think anything of that at all but if you remember it then yeah she really liked it she made her own just a neat detail um and so yeah uh we don't really know what's going on vye's tied up and jinx is doing evil villain speech in the background while walking around um and she says that they're in uh the same area that vanda was killed that's like just where they are right now um and she says silco thinks he made jinx with all of his ranting um excise your doubts become what they fear like everything was the same that's when vanda left him but he didn't make jinx you did which um is is true if you look at the events unfortunately as they unfolded that one arguably small and arguably wise decision by made has had such drastic repercussions that have brought us all the way here it's why episode three is super like hyper impactful yeah that one scene um and she says i never meant to leave you and uh as she's like panickingly looking around trying to find where jinx is because she keeps like the voice keeps coming from different areas she says um i always heard you shadows in the street prickles on my neck your voice pushing me picking me up when uh which is when all the colors were black you're the reason i'm still alive there's uh there's a lot to think about good stuff and then you get the uh i think this was a part of like this is the climax of the trailer for the show but she says are we still sisters vise says nothing's gonna change that it's easy to say easier said than uh how fucking creepy jinx is in this scene compared to before yeah yeah the glowing purple eyes like good boy um yeah she reveals that uh silk goes tied up here and she says he took everything from us he stabbed vander here in the back like he would do to me um and uh he says you'd abandon me when you knew the truth uh so yeah this is just everything that she's been dealing with throughout the season jinx she has no fucking answers that she can believe and uh i think then she basically says like it's gonna be up to you will i be sitting in which chair and uh you got a chair that has jinx written on it and it's like made of metal and it's all spindly and then the powder chair is just wooden and dare i say very normal looking it's just like i feel like all her little sparkly powder bombs over there next on the table just felt very deliberate that they did the chairs that way because you know powders a little more chill than jinx you know a little bit a little bit um yeah and she's also got like places set for vander milo and clagger and uh and she says oh there's one more person and uh said i um i gave your girlfriend a little visit and uh this is the thing this is you know it's gonna be different for everybody but she turns up with a fucking platter and uh like yeah for for a moment there it's because like it's katelyn you can't kill you wouldn't kill katelyn she'd be like she'd fight a gun like once um yeah then she lifts it up and uh she said the exact same reaction is vye i was just like no no no what's in the box um yeah she says i'm not that crazy this is like i don't know jinx i don't know i think you are i think you are crazy all she does is lift it up and it's a cupcake with the uh the gym on top of it it's like um jeez i'm not that crazy yeah for me it was like for me it was like a what what they they would but they would they would right but wouldn't they i i i have pretty much the same reaction like oh no no no and jinx is genuinely fascinated by how much vye is terrified as well she's like hey man really is getting to you right they even flash a picture of yeah they flashed a picture oh man i love how the silka wouldn't have given a shit either way he just been like okay he was just witnessing this like a cringe cringe i'm the important one what uh who's katelyn nobody cares i would have totally got the head on i would have totally got the head on there i'm just imagining silka going cringe like what um pops the thing off you are cringe now jinx has very simple math here does vye care more about me or katelyn i think an easy way to prove that is that i'll offer to be powder if she just kills katelyn oh that's simple there's hands over the gun she's like kill her just to prove that witch hell if i just like no no and she's like mmm that's pretty fucking annoying and proof that i'm not valued as much as katelyn huh and she puts the gun on katelyn herself it's just like a matter of like god it's so much more complicated than that why do you think that like just oh yeah just kill her and everything will be great this like no um but yes i think uh silko starts uh wibble wobbling and so jinx is like all right what do you have to say about all of this and like the first thing he says is she's lying she's absolutely lying she's not going to be fucking her name is jinx oh yeah because he believes in jinx he's fucking done with powder powder powder shit and he says uh the top side has offered me everything in exchange for you but they can all burn everyone betrays us they'll never understand it's only us you are my daughter i'll never forsake you so now there's a lot to think about yeah all that uh all that talking about how he betrayed her and all of a sudden she's like oh man that's really sweet yeah he also makes the very good point of like i'll be with you a day before she realizes that things have changed yeah that you're not that girl anymore milo starts talking so she shoots him a little teddy bear vision i guess or whatever it is uh and it makes a glass fall over and smash in such a way that it can be used as a cutting item right next to katlyn pretty convenient uh ultimately well we're about to get to how much that leads to so as she's talking to silko and definitely getting some feels look at it she's already breaking apart when he's explaining how much he should be given a chance and stuff um i think the fact that she shoots milo just quickly like that's that says a lot she's she's had enough yes she's i'm making the decisions now shut the fuck up um she hears her gun being prepped i think or at least the really look at her expression like i'm trying to figure stuff out katlyn like seriously give me a minute yeah and then silko just looks very like oh shit because something's gonna happen here mm it's very unclear because anything really could happen what it's kind of interesting is he doesn't seem at all caring about his own welfare right now all he's all that matters to him right now is whether or not uh powder or jinx is convinced whether or not she's powder and that seems to be the only thing that matters to him right now it's the closest to desperate i think we've seen him his expression immediately when uh kate pulls the gun on uh jinx uh fuck yeah jinx tries to draw it to shoot uh katlyn but katlyn shoots around here before she can even pull the trigger and i think the idea is supposed to be that katlyn's saying i will be faster than you so don't um which is interesting considering you do typically have to spool before you can fire and she's got a pistol which is just instant and she's a very good shot with it but uh jinx does take that as proof i won't be able to shoot you before you shoot me fine um and she's like a little little goofily does like a head button down and then i think vi realizes what's about to happen because she then like frowns and uh she does a fast shimmer move and uh grabs the the gun and knocks it into katlyn so really katlyn temporarily breaking out really doesn't have any kind of effect on anything um she goes back to being in that position straight away so down she goes because i was a little annoyed with the glass i was like really like okay last can do that i i can believe that i guess but certainly not that quickly and just gosh that's a lucky lucky wombo um but she goes to kill katlyn and then vi starts pleading with her and does something that's probably not wise she says no yeah uh damage powder remember who you are and then yeah she says but you have a silco in the background being like no shut the fuck up no it's like uh oh no everyone appears to her well yeah let's let's get a look at these pictures shall we already it's just like no it's not helping to picture these people all right yeah vi just doesn't understand that the past is not a place of refuge for jinx yeah i think it's a really good way of doing this because how could she know that well yeah and um we talked about in a different call but it was just recently that we had vi picturing vanda and compare that to this yeah jesus oh god oh so you might notice that vanda's pictured as kind of a wolf a little bit so yeah we did talk about um that in the first stream right the uh the connection to warwick yeah but um that feels like another old fit like they knew what they were doing but yeah so just it's perfectly in line with vi to think that appealing to these people would help but it's a fucking disaster on jinx's end yeah um and yeah silco managed to get at the gun that she put down just earlier when uh obviously all the the big dramas were happening and uh he gets his chance while she's just getting absolutely fucking told to shreds in her own braid but the part that i absolutely love is he grabs the gun and we've seen her do this before as well with how this gun works because i fucking don't know how it works but i know that before firing it you do a little little twink thing tink tink sound a little thing pops out and that sound is obviously something that she's gonna be pretty familiar with it shows him it does the thing and then we cut right into her and she looks up because that's the sound she knows she knows her gun's about to be fired and so just reacts grabs the gatling gun and shoots silco which is a decision so i mean you know fundamentally in that moment you have to decide let silco kill vile kill silco you gotta choose between well doesn't she just swing around under like shots and yeah silco fires one shot off yeah yeah you miss it you're in the shoulder i think graze it's a shoulder um yeah i mean silco silco was probably very discheesed that uh vile was causing jink to hurt in that way and she didn't even realize this this expression of just that's it yeah that's about that um and yeah a lot of people get upset by this in terms of just no silco yeah she she immediately regrets the decision quote unquote but i don't know that she regrets that vile's life was saved you know it's it's a very complicated thing i'm a jiggle happening here yeah i've i've saved one but i just lost the other of my family i i don't think she i'm not meant to do that yeah she just kind of did it on reflex because that's what she is she is just as impulsive as vi at this point but to a much more crazy degree um yeah and then we get another line that's constantly referenced silco says i never would have given them to you uh you to them not for anything don't cry you're perfect i don't even care that he's dying so like that's gonna make sure she's okay concern is to make sure that she's okay yeah there's so much to say about his choice to say this last uh if we go with he wants his plan to be enacted i don't because a lot of people argue that that might be his primary motivation i don't think it is because he doesn't even mention it i think his primary motivation is letting her know he loved her yeah yeah and clarifying in no uncertain terms when there's kind of no reason to lie at this point this is like no uh yeah you're my daughter um and i love you just the way that you are which is pretty significant for jinx because like a whole issue that she's been grappling with for the series um is the idea that she is like deeply deeply flawed um like she is the way you know well i mean she is but like you know everybody keeps telling her that like silco even for better or for worse i think it's important to specify silco completely validated her as as exactly who she was yeah which is something that she has received from nobody else uh not even like so i want powder not jinx yeah but she's not and wow actually i'm jumping down a little bit yeah we're almost there uh just going again the fucking expression in this moment too look at those eyes there's so much feeling in those eyes um but yeah that's that's it for silco i don't know if is it now the time to talk about silco as a whole since that is the end of his story sounds good to me what a fun and fantastic character yeah absolutely awesome villain um i think he's my favorite character um yeah i would i would say that vye comes vye comes in as a close second i like a lot wow it's just so fucking good my second is probably victor um hey we're close to being able to talk about that or our listings give it a bit specifically about silco it's just a wonderfully complete story it's absolutely phenomenal his dialogue is top-notch this guy comes across as completely in control of all of the horrible elements of his own empire that have all seemed to be an aid of one particular goal that isn't at all evil the goal itself it's just that he's so ruthless and he's decided early on in life that the only way to achieve said goal is to not have any limits about it which um hey only to them is it reflects lines from a certain i want to get a message to theo and fringy specifically without saying anything else to anyone else so a certain blue person that should be enough mr manhattan uh she the blue person i thought it was pretty funny says um if you want to win a war you must serve no master but your ambition i think is something that she says he's got a lot of really good lines but silco would have liked her quite a bit um he's yeah he just spends the whole fucking season being the mega chad and then right at the end he gets the exact same situation that he killed vander for there's it's nothing but meaningful it's amazing his big criticism of vander was giving it up to the enforcers and choosing his family over the zorn like over zorn's independence over zorns just making a deal with them at all it's fucking disgusting how could you that is like he gets everything he could ever want on a platter exchanged for the daughter and vander gives himself up wasn't why and silco gives himself up for jinx or at least gives up zorn for jinx silco had no frame of reference for that criticism he was leveling before but he gets it now he gets it now he that's the really important thing like well it's a different experience can inform like how well you're able to interpret a message or some sort of lesson it's easier i don't want to say easy but it's easier to say from the outside you should have given up your family or whatever else you should have made some great personal sacrifice for the cause but when it's when it's you and i don't know it's a little bit more difficult like people have guessed nebula and yandu as my mystery blue person no it's not barvel don't worry about it you don't need to know who it is uh i'm worried about it yes dr ben hatton there you go um but yeah i said that like five minutes no you did you said like dr womb hatton you said some weird account i even said oh nobody left that's sad and then nobody acknowledged me that's different no fuck you yeah idiot doctor and mister two different titles they don't care i'm one i'm doctor assist um but yeah he's gone his light has faded his watch is ended and um he's fucking completely broken and then soon after that she uh he's in a different state yeah and then she makes a decision just look at that expression this is information i get from looking at these faces i'm like i don't understand exactly what she's feeling right now you don't have to say nothing we got you yep you've got the the spooky uh mental damage whispers going in the background just quietly so much on her plate she was probably fucking wrong about silco that's what that is i made a mistake there jesus christ he was probably the best person for me in terms of accepts me for who i am and then vi is like uh hello are you and then they just have this shot where she's just thinking and breathing and it's like um you uh what's going on i remember this point in the seat i was just like good god anything could happen right now yeah i don't know oh jeez um makes a decision oh yeah i guess very important she makes a very important decision regarding silco i think it's worth mentioning as well that um the connection of vanda sees himself in vi and gives her the advice he believes is needed uh that he would have wanted when he was younger and silco does that exact same shit with jinx to the point where his calling her perfect i'm pretty sure is simply commenting on what he would have liked to have heard when he was trying so hard when he was so young uh so much of growing and nurturing their respective children relates to them as people as well it's like maybe they can turn out better um but yes uh her kill count right now is staggering um for people that she's killed in a sense both of her fathers uh as a result of her actions the two of her childhood best friends and she is there is no powder anymore like this is this is the big big moment that's obviously made clear by her choosing to sit in the jinx chair um there's just a matter of coming to terms with a lot of that is uh she says i thought maybe you could love me like you used to even though i'm different but you changed to ears to the new us a little pause before she says even like different in the even though i'm different the look on her face like it's she's not all too commonly like enormously lucid about what she's become there's a couple of times for the first time and she says like she says to buy an episode six things changed when you left i changed and then this time like it's a really subtle kind of thing to just tell you she is not pleased with how she's ended up and the the thing that's making her so lucid is the idea of wanting to go back to how things were before right and realizing how that just wouldn't work anymore and she wouldn't situation isn't even here that's the problem yeah yeah this is uh i'm really glad that this is what happened because it just feels more honest to me you know how like a lot of things do that i know you're in there deep down this is more recognition of um you're right unfortunately when you go on a certain track in life and then you have all of these experiences and you do these things you end up in a place where it's like um no actually no she's jinx she could form she form a new better person but she's never going to be exactly who she was before yeah i mean well yeah but she could but she can't she can't undo the show has several episodes beginning with what i would refer to as possibly like core memories core experiences for people that's to find them going forward and like i think the show is arguing it's like you can't just undo them like that's no you can't just undo them with an appeal to like hey come on we can be a family again it's like what does that mean like the the person you're talking to is not the person that you know um it's it's over there is no like appeal that you can make that can just reverse years of your life in terms of how that forges you as an individual people don't change speeches don't undo that yeah there is no speech that you can give that's gonna yeah undo that this actually from visepov i she doesn't have anything to work with she hasn't seen this person in so long and jinx has gone through a lot of very formative experiences without her everything she appeals to is years old and tied to an extremely traumatic memory i mean that's the thing for virus to struggle throughout this whole show she's just unaware there's so much she's missed out on it even reflects hardcore with echo because echo's just like are you crazy like with a lot of the things you're saying it's like you have no idea what's happened um i love this shot as well by the way yeah that shots my favorite with the line over the top of it um and yeah the game fans again it's like is she about to fucking ulti she has she's about to ulti the council god damn so yeah super stylized looks fucking amazing and it seems that vi knows what she's about to do and she feels bad about it katlyn is distraught to say the least because her mom's up there yep um also jinx screams like hell when she's firing that thing i would imagine it may be related that it's painful to fire as well the energy but i imagine it's because she's not exactly happy about doing this i think that's a lot of rage in this she just she just kind of lost yet another father and now she's just like fuck the world well and this was silco's design this is the thing we're almost to the end of the events of the show and so we can just talk about things in general but um yeah we got a flash of heimerdinger and echo uh happily working away and discussing stuff while the camera shows us a clock in the foreground that's just satisfying to see um and as they show this each council member is voting yes to the piece we see silco sorry singed is holding a uh locket with what we presume to be is now lost daughter and uh it could end up being that that's a rihanna as as has been mentioned before that's the precise same hairstyle it is and we get a very quick shot of what has to be warwick yeah look at him up yeah look at him up yeah that's what i had missed earlier that's gonna be big hype it's just so quick now people will be excited to see warwick i'd be excited uh yeah and um we see the uh mel's mum checks out the painting that theo was mentioning earlier but it's like scribbled apart sort of like paint has been splashed over it very much paste it with yellow gold i wonder what that could mean is uh gold is evil no it's a color that one would associate with pilto no gold is evil she's saying that nox is evil no pilto was like green i don't know what you've been fully green oh my bad um but yeah you know these these are all as far as i'm concerned just a flash of a couple of images of don't leave once you hit the credit sorry we'll be back there's lots of stuff to do here uh yeah the next one as well there's this this shot and um a friend of mine unironically got confused the jinx was trying to blow up the moon um and that would have been confusing that would have been very confusing yes uh like oh no she's shooting at the council oh no how are we good he said that when he first finished this show he was he was absolutely lost at this point and so the scene wasn't really working for him because he was pretty sure that it's stupid to try and blow up the moon it's such a like absurd cartoony thing like jinx's final part of the moon it kind of looks like it's flying to the moon yeah i know it's super stylistic at that point but um yeah this probably best represents the way these two feel about this event not great and yeah just to fade into katlyn's mom as well well yeah who also votes for peace which as this is progressing it's getting gradually more and more sad that basically the entire council have voted yes uh like all happy it's like yay we did it the rocket's almost prepared and uh yeah we just you know it's gotta be mentioned that uh they show mel's back light up yeah right here and it looks like she's noticed something right before the rocket hits so i don't know what they're trying to tell us with that but we'll find out next time because this is the last thing you see before it's over yeah such a cool ass shot you're so good yeah and that's our king we finished the season with an ulti how cool is that mel's not for no reason mel's gonna be a support character and she'll ulti will be to make everybody in the room be unable to drop below one hp hey will you trim the mirror please no you just wait for it wait for it to happen wait hold on no hold on that already exists i was about to say i think that does exist right that's that's kindred's ult yeah gosh theos what are you a shitty lul expert cheese uh yeah i don't know yeah um so roll credits good shit now what music in that last scene i can only hoping for from that cliffhanger is my first question right well i'm gonna make a guess and say jace cannot die he might even have a shielding thingy on something because he's been putting shielding thingies on of all this tech maybe he might add have one on him who knows my guess reality is that everyone dies except jace victor and mel i'm guessing that's what they'll do and then victor might get very badly hurt that's probably what they'll do yeah what we would like them to do because it's been discussed in different calls but uh came up with this scenario which i would like to describe the uh the scenario with fucking teeth okay season two opens with a brutally injured victor crawling out of that room covered in blood yeah everyone in there's dead they've been torn to shreds jace goodbye and mel goodbye there's no way they do this but that would be the balls on them for doing that you know and he crawls his way i want that to do i want that i want that crawls his way to the hex core because that's the level of desperation he needs to get him to use the hex core again to save him oh i mean we could we could actually see him use the hex core on um jace and then mel and then like the power is out or anything and he can't revive the rest that could be how they live um i don't know i wouldn't want to say that there's no way for them to do it that would like not like the idea that they keep the three of those alive and i can't be happy with that is like it'll depend it'll really depend on how they execute it because they have dropped a seed in there something's going on with mel i don't know what it is if it's as simple as no she just has a reflective back and the rocket reflected okay just imagining through the window boing back out well yeah that's the thing right if it's like uh how can they execute that's like there's a lot of different things they could do it we'll have to see what they do when they do it i just don't know um i yeah i don't know what we're in for but um hopefully we don't get this uh this show's normal track record with explosions and plot armor well yeah because you know what would be the worst when rolls in there is if it opens up and the you know the rooms is rubble everywhere there's clearly all of the bodies are just on the ground with bits of mud on their faces and then mel is like jason's just standing there yeah well jace is carrying her and victor out of the room and then she's like what about the others and he goes they're all dead it's like yeah okay yeah all right that's that's what i expect god i really hope you don't have to roll that flip at the start of the day of the rk season two discussion if they did that it's not like season two can't still be amazing it's just well it's like it's just like well i guess we have to take explosions in this show seriously then because like you know three is the pattern um and that's the only reason why i would happily have victor survive is that his augments already there's an implication there maybe that he's got something that's gonna make him persist but i would i would go as far as probably tearing some some shit off of him uh in a very violent way because of just you gotta you gotta make it feel like it actually has weight to toss a hextech rocket inside that room you know um so anyway it's time for us to open up into all kinds of discussions um may i start with what i believe to be the theme of this terrible show yeah go for it uh funnily enough so it's been mentioned and then we're finally here uh it's it's the same thing as the last of us two a lot of people have already noticed this and that's not a problem at all lots of stories do the same theme um to because there's so many ways to explore it but the funny thing i guess is a connection is that there's lots of pieces in this that really do remind you of the last of us two um a lot of people can pay the deaths of vanda and joel and what it means to the other characters and stuff and it's just like man one of them has a lot of a lot of respect and reverence the other one doesn't i wonder what the difference is wonder why people hate one and love the other i wonder why the idea of elastivus three is a fucking nightmare but the idea of arcane season two is a desperate thing ever was now i would also want to go as far as saying that uh there's more than there's always loads of themes you can pull out of a thing i just mean the broadest one that i think the show is aiming for uh which is covered in the last of us two as well the simplest way to put it um i've talked about this a couple of you guys but uh i think the theo you made it the shortest possible which would be violence begets violence the point the show would be making isn't necessarily to say that violence is good or bad or even specific elements of all the different things that can happen as a result just that this it's the cycle and i would go as far as saying katelin says it explicitly in episode seven i think um essentially the inequality of zorn and pilt over that's how it starts and then that causes more and more tension until somebody makes some kind of mistake it didn't even have to be necessarily a mistake but whatever it is requires retribution from the other party and then that just creates more and more responses from different people who get caught in crossfires and get more involved until it gets higher and higher and then start losing lives and then more lives and there's just fury from basically everybody involved you see that from basically the opening scene the prologue is like the best representation of what this show is entirely about um get the like a guilt written vander looking at well looking to adopt uh powder and vie because their parents were killed in a war that he led now it may have been that they would they volunteered to help and stuff but it's still it's still he feels like he actually talks about this one episode one or two that whatever happens is to and as a result of your um the people you lead it's on you um which is i think just a direct reference to all the shit that he's done in his life and so yeah like he feels responsible for their deaths and sees that the the fight against pilt over all it did was destroy powder and vise lives at least to some degree he's adopting them his attempt at making their lives better um and you could just see that his face we're going over like he drops his weapons in and instead looks after people so like as a result of how bad the war's gotten i feel like that covers the whole show at that point in microcosm but um the show's story broadly i would argue is that uh we go from that early all the way up to that final scene is just the violence getting more and more and more out of control as the show goes on um we go all the way back and then like the first thing vise doing when we meet her in the in episode one after the first scene is that she wants to jump at the opportunity basically to steal from pilt over and the justification is they're better off than us done like it's a pretty simple math um and all she's got is resentment for for pilt over um and that event leads to an explosion and hurts a whole bunch of people's lives in significant ways to the point where the enforcers need to have retribution they have to have someone to pay for that crime it can't just be left undone in any way and it starts to lead to the inspections and the abuse and people are getting hurt as a result of vise choice to do that and she only understands thanks to vanda that that it's it's really on her she's the one that made that decision and she makes a very adult decision considering her age in terms of giving herself up unfortunately that prompts a different character silco been over this how fucking good he is so like he's got his own perspective on how this is all working and it's all started with again the inequalities between dawn and pilt over um and it's prompted by vanda's decision to try and make her life better which is basically all he's intending to do as a result of what happened to their parents by giving himself up and that just leads to even more people getting killed there's like all these different lines getting crossed with all these different interests from different people and uh getting that deal with the enforcers makes silco decide it's time to fucking kill him and take over as the leader of zorn and produce shimmer to like a wide level with the specific intention of shimmer being something they can eventually manipulate into something that can be weaponized against pilt over it's almost like zorn has shimmer while pilt over has hextech it's just that obviously shimmer is so much less controlled and chaotic while hextech even though it is chaotic to some degree as well as the goal of trying to make it as um straightforward it feels much more like a i don't know just just the representatives of each area as well um and that uh you know that's only happening all that shit with silco because vanda tried to kill him why did he try to kill him because silco believed that you should do absolutely anything you can to win the war which is the opposite of what vanda wants to believe in but it it leads to that climax in episode three it's what fucking fucks everything up it's the violence it's everywhere and it's bleeding into everybody we have vanda and gracing in the first three episodes that are perfectly like representative of each side of this fight only looking to calm everything down because they know how bad everything can get even the the older characters the more wiser ones both of them get fucking killed in episode three which i think is very deliberate the the reasonable sides of both zone and pilled over and are dead so everything's just going to get worse it's worth adding to that real quick uh the episode is called the base violence necessary for change which is also kind of i want to say a message coming out of either the show or that episode um in that like some these problems like this i guess vanda and grayson they aren't changing anything the status quo is remaining as it is and a lot of people are not pleased with that zone is still a place of like destitution and uh poverty and you know it's a mess well pilled over continues to prosper very true um so then as a result of all of these different things happening we have that one crystallized event of generating jinks from powder it's all the violence i think just that scene gets created by it from all these different people getting all involved all of them base motivation is retribution for wrongs done to them by someone else and um jinx then goes on to kill so many people and just blundering away through how a mind is just out of control um trying to figure out who even is meanwhile jace having been fueled by uh everything that's happening as well as taking the life of a kid working tirelessly to engage peace and mel having been solely interested in raising like her own station as well as that of built over as like a global power um ends up denying essentially anoxian heritage by uh deciding that peace is the better choice because remember war is a failure of statecraft as she believes um and it's at that moment that jinx destroys the entire council an event that i think previously almost certainly wow not almost certainly will certainly bring about war war is happening now yeah like there's no way there's no stopping it now really yeah and like where that wasn't where that was like a really good chess move for for zon like that would be great progress like nice in terms of just a strategic thing in terms of actually a war happening like right now it's just tragedies explicitly not not even just because it's destroying the attempt to bring peace but now that we've gotten to know so many people in that room and their intentions and how much they've worked to get everything better so it's like and like where does it all run back to like obviously the the the cycles being from all the way back to that prologue it all leads to jinx and that final decision and like what's that going to lead to it's like way more violence pilt over is going to war absolutely it's going to be loads of people going to die as a result of this like it's absolute fucking carnage and it's precisely what so many characters were trying to stop and so many characters end up stopping in like how many examples do we have of people committing to violence and then realizing they shouldn't have very soon after it's uh it's interesting to think about as a as a phenomenon right it's like well we don't want war like we don't want people to die it's like yes we all agree on that yet the council getting blown up it's like well war's happening it's like but wait people don't want more it's like yeah it's not just don't work like that you know like it's like that we're talking about societies it's it's it's people who feel that they've been wrong because they have been wrong but then there's also like we're wrong doing preceded that what were people's intentions it's like well ultimately violence begets violence um yeah it's it's when someone like mentioned oh this starts with her stealing the hex crystal and it's like yeah but why does she do that to impress silco why does she do that because she's seen as weak potentially why does she feel like she might be it's like she's got massive insecurities created by that event at the end of that event at the end of episode three is the is where everything comes from basically for a lot of people yeah um and that is this is why i love it so much that very small decision from vi to leave temporarily like how could she possibly have known that that is what leads directly to all those people getting obliterated in the council she's like you can't yeah no how could you possibly foresee something like that happening and maybe there's an irony there in that she's leaving the situation because she's becoming violent with powder and she's like it's better that i not be here but like that's what leads to it all um it was it was a pretty reasonable decision it's like oh let me just totally is just let me have a breather i'll go get her in like a minute or two maybe five but then yeah all the other stuff happens it's like damn uh but yeah jinx created by all kinds of factors but as she says vice the one that made jinx it's like it's that one decision in that one moment that's really the biggest contributing factor of course her desire to basically just take lives without really caring about it you can imagine that's something that would have happened because of her upbringing with silco we've talked about how that would be something that she might find beneficial mentally because of how much the deaths of weight on her head and then of course just being nurtured by silco is gonna make her probably a lot more villainous than she may have been but it's that one moment um and of course like it's it's it's not even just that level of her upbringing you have to consider Piltova's damage to powder's parents powder being told by vai almost every day of her life that like Piltova suck and they they get all the stuff we don't fuck them we can even beat them up who cares and like how excited she was when she was younger at the thought of going to war with Piltova like that would have just been nurtured as well is it like what silco is going to tell her to calm down is like no he's going to tell her that that's probably where we're heading and that would be good um yeah you know she's she's brought up by like drug dealers and thugs and a boss that wants her to create a weapon that can destroy the entire council like it's it's all because of that one moment um and she would value zon over basically everything else she's already got that hatred of enforcers that's throughout all the the stuff that she does and that's just seven years which is a very long time especially at that age so yeah i i just see jinx as the complete result of all of the violent action in basically all of the story from as early or even earlier than the prologue um and it's just a matter of like this is what happens and i just love that we have the characters on all over the story that have all these different views on how much you should commit to the violence keeping people safe alive happy but also defending yourself and having justified it like you know vise a fucking crazy brawler person who fights everybody at the first chance that she gets able to but she's still someone who sees the value in not reacting that way several times um it may be your first impulse to beat up everything but she's learned a lot from vander and so she really does try to commit a little bit better to not hitting everything she sees but there's always going to be that impulse it's going to be your first yeah and uh so why does jinx pull that trigger uh is a question that some people need answering i suppose here and there on the interwebs and i don't even know where to begin the list is quite enormous in terms of all the reasons she might have to pull it you could start with the easy one being that it was always it was it was the plans designed by silco it was the one thing he wanted and he kept asking her to do and told her it's the most important thing ever as well as um that line that plays when she's about to pull it from him saying we'll show them when he first held it i think that's that's a huge motivation but then there's also she hates the mood there's all the baggage she's had forever in relation to piltover and its relationship to zorn um piltover caused basically i think she would see them as the root cause of all of the shit in her life has gone wrong yeah which isn't hard to do uh because of just all of the the horrors that have happened in zorn as being the i don't know the the black sheep of that area nobody nobody in piltover seems to really care about them that much fully illustrated by heimending his journey uh to mention they were willing to uh keep everybody's independence away until she was brought in from them so they basically want her arrested and put away for god knows how long maybe even forever or executed either way so uh she's already they want her arrested or killed and uh she ain't all about that life so uh there's another reason one um i think to a certain degree she wants to do it um the just the amount of pressure on her whole life as well as her insecurities about power this is the biggest fucking move that anyone has ever done in the history of both areas is the most strongest thing the biggest amount of damage and have major repercussions there may not be much in terms of insecurity about her abilities anymore i think there's a large aspect of bridge burning to it in that she wants to make sure that there is absolutely no way back and that vi hates her which i think interesting thought season two is gonna have to do a lot of addressing for that relationship uh yeah oh yeah and based on that teaser it would seem that we are gonna be going in the direction that we ought to uh now and so uh after your coming back in a box i think it is right yeah bring us back a little just quickly to the holly quinn stuff the reason i hate holly quinn but adore jinx as a character is the the difference is just understanding them with qualitative writing obviously but um yeah not only it's literally a fucking crazy crazy crazy person but i feel like i understand every decision she makes and how much she's struggling with everything that's happened to her holly quinn i have no idea what she's gonna do or say in any scene she's in i'm just like all right she's here now oh she's got a hammer yeah i don't know yeah well it wasn't used i'm walking left and right oh ho ho we use sharyl as an example for sharyl from archer as the example is like hey you know when you it's fucking the laziest shit ever is when rice is just say oh the character is crazy that's why they do random shit with for no reason it's like that's not actually um how crazy people work crazy people still have consistent patterns of behavior they're just not based on what we would consider to be like reality right um or that you know that there's some some fundamental it's some fundamental difference between them and a person who we generally consider to be rational it's not that they are well fucking dice well i mean it's it's like for reference in economics one talks about like rational agents like in the economy like rational doesn't mean that you're making like the most optimal decisions it means that you're operating based on on on like the belief that you are acting in your interests whatever they may be um i feel like i just think about that when it comes to like you know just people in general people act in their interests or people act in what they believe to be their interests um including jinx it's just that her interests are confused and misaligned but like it's all thoroughly explained and a lot of it's done subtly just yeah like i i feel like um there's there's there's no reason to look at the decisions she makes and go oh why would she do that it's like no i no i think i know why she would do that never feels arbitrary to me that she has so much uh inability to decide on who's telling the truth and what she should do next because she's been so thoroughly betrayed and damaged and this is the thing you'd be like whoa whoa do you sound like you think she's like a kind of a good person or something it's like no she's a horrible person um it's just a very very bad person they thoroughly understand how she got there which uh is what we often need for our antagonists which is essentially what she is um she's an antagonist yeah or at least she will be now uh in the next season for sure but i really hope the next season's doing i they gotta they gotta commit to it and i feel i feel like there's reason to believe that they will because they committed to a lot of the unconventional difficult storytelling decisions um we saw that in episode three we saw that in the finale and throughout two there were a lot of other instances where they could have done the safe conventional choice narratively but they decided to commit to what would happen really just gives me a bit more confidence um yeah i think that they earned all of the um all of your moments the cracking i think that but just for example obviously the end of that episode six where he's just just like the the idea of being with vi and maybe that there was more to her life than what she definitely committed to and then like like embracing that for a moment and then realizing like well but i mean i can't really do that it's not really possible and then the next thought being wait a minute is vi lying was i was just not even real because of katlyn and stuff and just having all of that going through your head considering all of her trauma and everything she believes just like i can't imagine any brain sustaining that for very long yep and she's been struggling like her struggle i think throughout the season is how the hell to define herself and who exactly she is because she's caught between a couple of different identities each like leaning on a particular individual for support like uh going into the past as powder with vi and then chinks with silco but in both ways she's really hedging her bets with a specific individual and who they're telling her she is and i think this last bit was a big statement of no i think i know who i am now i'm the person who makes things go wrong yeah a jinx which is just what milo told her over and over again no need for milo to be whispering it in her ear anymore now but she just knows it herself and um in relation to the what i think is the main theme uh just the the lyrics of that song again from the opening which is i'm not even sure what the name of the song is but um dear friend across the river my hands are cold and bare dear friend across the river i'll take what you can spare i ask of you a penny my fortune it will be i ask you without envy we raise no mighty towers our homes are built of stone so come across the river and find the world below which it's the it's the summary of everything that happens in this what caused everything to happen in this was the disparity of living in in both of these areas that's where everything comes down to piled over skyrockets the undercity falls apart every time but there's all people down there and then they start to uh feel certain ways about certain things so i mean we we we were far into the story to begin on the repercussions of a war that happened you know but then we're just talking about what are the results of that it's just never fucking ends and with the end of this season it's like yeah that's that ain't stopping yeah no resolution this time i think things are only gonna get worse for a little while now yep because there's a lot of bad in the future like i think jinx still has a way to fall there's warwick who's that's not a pleasant story um i guess spoiler warning maybe but who knows a lot of vise friends or old friends may very well end up turning on her because of where she ends up yeah which is a really interesting choice now uh given all the history that we've got and i was like to re-mention just uh there are a lot more themes you can pull out of this thing i just think that's the main one they're getting for what we like to talk about what this show is trying to say about fathers um which yeah there's definitely plenty to draw out there i think progress is another fairly easy one that's tied in with the the irreversible of violence whether or not uh violence is the price of progress and whatnot yeah just all the themes about science and scientific progress uh progress in general i guess yeah yeah to tie back further rather than violence being the price of progress being the price of progress change um so is there even reason to but i kind of wanted because we always do but what would be the number you'd give the show if you were forced to a gunpoint eight nine point five uh i think i'm sitting like an eight point five i think that's where i was gonna say eight eight point five i'm not sure yeah yeah yeah yeah i want to say nine based on my enjoyment yeah uh it may have been obvious to an eye maybe from the get go but um it's easily one of my favorite shows at this point i was very impressed yeah i want more very god yeah uh for what you wish for no that's a fine wish i want more of this i don't want more of whatever they might end up giving us bad which could be bad but uh yeah you know i think there's course for optimism though i think so yeah standard pessimism they're getting more than a year to work on the next the next season won't come out until 2023 well i think all we've been told is not 2022 so i guess yeah 2023 the earliest that's fine take your time it seems like they already have an idea for the season two that that was like definitely something they were aware of as an option when they're making this show uh and they might well have already started thinking about what they want to do um and i think that there was enough uh instances of like man you you know what you're doing when it comes to writing characters that uh i think there's yeah i i it would it would be baffling if it was considerably worse if we've got the same people behind it yeah imagine that article just fucking arcane writers replaced all of my disney if like riot like removed and replaced the entire writing thing i'd be like i almost don't want to watch season two now that's like i know there's a big naughty you're not allowed to do that uh your your vlc is running better okay uh well who's everybody's favorite character yeah let's should we should we do the quick version first then we can talk about it just go left to right oh yeah okay yeah there you are i didn't hear what you actually agreed on i had left right something else to know okay so if it's me jinx silco jinx silco silco oh you broke yeah silco you broke and from what i've seen the two most popular picks a favorite character is silco and jinx yeah that makes sense that makes a lot of sense i do have sort of a caveat though like silco is like the character i enjoy most on like a intellectual level i guess i want kind of a less wanky word for it but that is the the level right whereas emotional investment i'm more interested in vye so um so i i think that my favorite is not who's who's who's everybody's second favorite character i'll go first this time my second favorite character is victor i think second favorite is violet all right jinx said by right right yeah well i was like that they're both my favorites on different levels um silco and vye well wait are we are we discounting silco and vye or or is it just your whatever your second i'm just asking who's people's second favorite is right yeah well so my second would be silco then victor oh fine i guess i wasn't allowed i looked up on my screen for some reason that's it's fine it's okay i'm not even here it was victor right dive who knows who knows it was victor yes it was victor yeah and yeah silco for me who is everybody's third favorite character we go right to left to get i've actually yeah right to left ah this is difficult uh victor jace yeah mine's victor heyland i'm sad that i've not had any appreciation for it yet third favorite is jace my third favorite would be jinx and i assume we don't need to go further than that no that's that's about good enough who of the main characters like main including i guess secondary characters as well would be the lowest on your list i say the lowest because worst feels like a bad way to describe it i don't think you can say there's a bad main character i guess that's what i i mean does echo count yeah echo counts but i i totally disagree with that yeah for what little time i don't know who to pick because well honestly honestly it's just because like yeah he gets the least time i know the least about him i feel based on the amount of time i have to know him so i guess he's my lowest pick i still hate you if it weren't him if it weren't him it would be jace that's that's fine i guess well what what's the acceptable answer right what i'm gonna i'm gonna say they're all so good i think the uh the most acceptable answer will be my answer which is marcus i think that's probably no actually i think i changed my mind on marcus over time i think uh i think i have a lot more appreciation for him now for me it is very but grudgingly i'm a dinger how was that how was that more accepted how is that i don't agree because i like echo in the game so you know i really like the character and they did him a lot of justice in the show i think i would go with mel personally see i think i uh i'm not sure like i i don't think i could go with her right now i'm like yeah but it's my opinion not yours so fuck off i'm just saying i'm just thinking i'm thinking i actually don't know now i don't know either because i asked the question and i don't know uh like choosing between the lot of invention i'm just like but i like them all like yeah i like them all too i was like what about sin just like this is awesome what do you mean i fuck a big sin is awesome it's to cinch even like is he because we said main right i'm like i'm uh what qualifies there so cinched counts because he's champion i guess so little screen no no no actually no sorry sorry jay i'm gonna have to because cinched is one of the most important characters in the show i was about to say is emperor palpatine not main because he's not on screen very much yeah like i suppose a lot of what happens in this show is because of cinched he invented shimmer he invented shimmer he saved jinx and made her and that was like definitely bleeding into like the ending there um there's a lot of victor yeah uh which then results in the change which then is gonna result in decisions made by him and jace probably yeah like cinched is incredibly important like he's plot important but i'm not sure no i i think i think i'm not sure how it's being plot significant counts for i would say that it's pretty important when we think about who our important characters are how dare you because like um palpatine is i mean he's significant to the universe right well but i feel that the reason that we qualify him as a main is because he's so thoroughly characterised in the few scenes that he has in uh yeah kind of like kind of like uh cinched i just i really like cinched that's all that's um well i want to um i kind of want to a poll where we uh where we rank all the characters from best to worst um we can do that with straw because of the audience i'm curious jay because you said katlin was your third favourite why yeah that's an unconventional choice um i i found her very compelling right from uh episode four um i found her like just journey to be interesting um right from well because i i found her to be like the more interesting hero architect right of um the more i talk i talked to you about this way more coherently when we actually first watched that episode do you remember what i said too bad so sad do you remember what i said no i just i'm looking for those words again uh well jay finds that hot that's not all of it that's not all of it i suppose um something that factors into my choices is like layers and i feel like all of the characters in the show are hot i think even cinched even climating it um i think we're what's informing my choices is layers i think i think katlin is pretty straightforward not that that's a problem but i don't know that i would consider it as difficult to nail that as a character like her as a character as opposed to say like jinx jinx is really difficult to write well because there's so many variables that you have to account for um it's kind of the same with jace as well i think uh oh you're right what's wrong i thought i thought everybody was silent like wait a minute am i like and anything to say like i guess um can you repeat what i should be okay so what i was gonna say was that the reason why i like i i think when i was saying like jinx is third it's like i think i do oscillate with her like between like first second and third like uh but but ultimately what all three of those characters have that i really like is they're incredibly layered um whereas i think katlin she's kind of in the same category as jace it's like you've executed on this character pretty well um but she's pretty straightforward um yeah it's not super complicated uh which isn't a problem um i just think i i find it really impressive to create a character like silco more so than i think it is to create someone like katlin yeah because katlin's kind of a character that we've seen many times over we've seen a lot of katlin that's what we say right um sorry go on just wait just clarify keep going but just is that everybody have i got that list right is there anybody else oh all right is this a list of every character in the one that that was a question is the way calling me oh okay um uh where is uh where's uh wait is vander on there oh yeah he is yeah um i feel like someone's missing yeah where's katelyn katelyn yeah is that it um i'm pretty sure there's someone else that i feel like is not on that i can't see jace okay where's jericho where's yeah yeah where's jericho let's see that boy hey can i take back my first answer where is the first fish man oh yeah that's jericho yeah yeah wait is this is this um is this a is this like a poll where people can rank them in their own order or is it gonna be their favorite no vote for the least good character were you gonna do a a best one as well well we already know what our votes are in terms of best right true what i think is actually gonna be what's what are you saying that oh have you noticed have you noticed what i've done for how long hasn't been like that for about half the stream i've had to be a bit most people wouldn't have seen that in fact because i've had to click into the discord to make it happen jay speak for a while i'm not sure hello um this is what happens when i talk now i set this up i thought you know funny if i just set this up halfway through the stream so i did oh boy well all right i think the poll's ready then uh you just get this going here because we need to we need a fucking answer on this jesus uh okay how do i do this share need more i wait to forget that i have this on and then join like a serious discord call that i actually need to be taken seriously yeah you're on like a work meeting with some kind of multinational network and you got to come follow up does this does this link quick let's hurry the least good character the least good character that's an interesting one least good is is a different question to least favorite okay hey the link the link works by the way excellent all right here it comes people in chat here i go oh boy get ready to click because if you don't click it you won't be able to share your opinion that's what's most wouldn't want that would you feel like i feel like jinx might wipe up because of her like harley quinnis i feel like that's probably pissed a few people off jinx is like the most popular pick for like that but i feel like i feel like she also might be one of the most popular picks for the worst i feel like she might be polarizing yeah maybe i feel like she might have a popular i feel like she might have a more popular hate club than any of the other characters do i don't think so oh my god i'm so sorry about the current results the uh uh oh what are we looking at this oh no hey kaitlyn there though kaitlyn's what the hell is kaitlyn doing that she's uh what i can't believe how many people have voted for jericho though yeah what hey moron this was for the least favorite character i was about to ask the people who read the thing i think jericho is the best character i've ever been offended i think everyone is sorry last train right everyone thinks he's best characters and they didn't read the title yeah i i actually do wonder how much no title reading has got on here jericho stop it yeah victor is the other way maybe that everyone thought it was vote for fucking i don't know why i don't know how to make sense of this anymore yeah i can't interpret this day i don't know why is jericho in second place i already told you what this poll is seriously as an answer like maybe yeah how did jericho win do we just have to like remove him and just look at the results as a result i think we have to remove him yeah i just well i don't mean like actually make a new straw but we just have to assume ignore all of his vote well that's not really how you do data is it who would vote for who would they vote for if not jericho it's all the people vote for Jeremy screw this up it was a joke yeah i like the idea they're like i was just following the rules what never trust never trust stream chat to do no joke you know it was a bad idea yeah i'm just shocked because they're surely they're going with surely if they're playing along with the joke it would yeah it would be to not be zero votes yeah they're just very simple people you see jericho you click jericho disgusting that's what i have to say about that vander is the least unpopular least hated character i think it's really hard to hate vander yes he's really cool he's a pretty wonderful lad i'm actually rewriting this thing by the way yes because we have to we these are not clean results the oh they have been they have been jinxed you can't have this oh like jinxed from arcane who's that no um uh just a character something like a nude man just gonna say it well is it think about it and that one i'm gonna have to unpin my previous one now look at what you've made me do chat look at it yeah good good job god dangus is i have not included the legend this time around oh so yeah thanks for that clearly you couldn't be trusted yeah so you got to do it again reality is often disappointing wait remove the pin there we go all right everybody look we've got a new new new guy worst character worst no not worst favorite he's good oh there's a graph echo is wiping up well now that we've removed the cringe it would seem we know who all the votes to jericho would have gone we have got that answer wow yeah i guess sorry gee oh man yeah oh katlin katlin coming in they're hot yeah wow looks like we have some bigots on our hands wait a minute yeah why is vander and victor just like us and bless him exactly i think it's i think it's hard to hate victor or vander i think it was hard to hate you know heimer digger but it was hard to hide still go to one person because like it's like i do i genuinely wonder oh if you've you forgot mark one or you didn't forget marker system there is um i wonder i how many people who are voting are like legit yeah fuck this character and how many of them like oh if i have to choose one i think it's more than that that the jericho results okay i i refuse to be that charitable yeah i believe uh believe echo has been booted wow bad opinions even though he has the coolest scene in the show oh that's that's a good thing you know what was everybody's favorite scene from uh i was gonna say left to right right left i don't even know anymore what should we do from the center oh from the center is the six of us yes and that's why i found that funny to say oh i get the joke now um but the echo versus powder scene about it gross jinx yeah oh it's both well you know because wow yeah actually i might might and the bit of it really the really hits home for me is the echo versus powder part like that's you know like that's that's what it comes to mind as it's primarily that for me uh well so we'll do it jay me dash metal frame you that's the best way to do it i guess i don't even know um it's definitely not the best way but it's the way we're gonna do it yes uh i think my favorite scene is the finale literally the last scene in in whole just because i think all about what all of it means and why it's happening and then everyone involved and the song the song is fucking fantabulous though uh the echo jinx fight is it scores incredibly high uh absolutely no doubt das is tuned oh i would i would have to give it to um when vi confronts powder and calls are jinx and everything it's basically the end of episode three i've got to give it to that i love that that's an even explanation it's just like yep yep yeah to the end of episode three that's that's all you need to know uh metal oh it's me i mean i've already said it earlier but i my favorite scene is the one where jace and silica are talking and coming to quote unquote terms why do you feel that it means more to you than the other scenes that have been mentioned it's just uh just the thing where they give the antagonist the choice that normally the protagonist gets i really like that uh then jace just being super confident after everything he's went through and realized that the best the best choice is to do the whole peace thing and give him what he wants for pretty much very little and basically being a chad going into space like oh yeah if we do this you all will be annihilated and it's going to be bad for you somebody said oh and the one where silica kisses jinx was very moving wow uh i guess i guess i'm done okay were you not i'm i'm fucking done now well see the problem is most people don't say i am done now at the end of this sentence is i usually just have to go i know no but it was a meme from waiting for the meme to go through um well carry on i think the meme the meme is dead now yeah yeah yeah no i just uh and silica coming in like super confident and i get go because like oh look at this week piece of shit he just attacked me and now he's coming around he must be haven't doubted he's gonna win this but then he's basically just like no i want jinx and so it was like uh no yeah that's the end there you go uh huh uh huh well that's four different scenes anybody who chooses a scene that's been mentioned for their favorite that would be cringe uh for you next yes super cringe yeah my favorite is uh echo versus jinx on that cringe fine i own that scene i made it myself yep you can't just put your little chair in the corner and say it's yours uh dear jesus man um i don't remember him either the finale either the finale the finale of episode three or echo versus jinx and i can't decide your triple cringe yeah that's hyper cringe you gotta pick there's a gun to your head right now yeah i was gonna go outside don't worry i don't have a hat probably the finale you do you have a big mask against the hat right that's not a hat i'd have to ask brags you can have a hat it's very picky about those sorts of things but um wait which sorry which what did you say uh the finale episode nine probably that uh what reason does it outplay the others the character worked with jinx and the final decision she makes i think i think just working with the character in that scene is really really interesting yeah um and just as the culmination of her arc like a round of applause from me and the fact that they chose to fucking end off on a cliffhanger which is you know kind of bold yeah and that's fine with me as well because this we got such a big meal uh the idea that yeah but you didn't know what happened to people in that room it's like i'll find out i've still gotten plenty to to eat and it's just certainly a season's worth i guess uh i'll be eating stories more so echo i'm afraid the oh has lost that's definitive right there that's proof actually that he is the queen on the second hold on no i need someone's voted for victor and vanda now those are god well three people have voted for victor and vanda the horror yeah horror how often do you see good opinions come out of chat that's all chat get him you gotta take that well i mean victor and vanda are the least voted for options so i'd say that's a good opinion coming out chat and then silco is next another very good opinion coming from chat but then yin jinx and katey is a great opinion coming from chat who well yeah that's true no fuck that just remind jave this favorite character had to go for number two for least favorites like yeah chat a ridiculous it must be injected into space so i'm like saying above above her is hymerdinger it was like man imagine not liking hymerdinger who doesn't like hymerdinger point to the person exactly why nobody's saying that they don't like echo if they're all just saying that that he's oh i'm sure that someone is like echo yeah i want to see interest is anyone here who voted genuinely dislike the character you voted for and if so who did you vote for well that kyle said me i don't like hymer how can you not like hymer hymer could have been better used though i would need to see you like you like him you're more of a yes you just like mal i cheated when i thought echo died oh my god what's so many different opinions in chat right now they're everywhere i'm met on echo well you can't even spell his fucking name wow yeah i learned how you spell it correctly yesterday and i'm gonna act really hymer about it wait why did you think it was spelled like the way that it's normally spelled and then you found out i'm not gonna lie yes i did well look that's okay we all make mistakes i don't what matters is that we don't repeat them right that sounds like a that sounds like a silco line was a silco line that's probably what it sounds like it then i'm a good judge of these things you have a silco line detector and my silco died patty jenkins in the form of a pop figure huh wow why i can't wait to pick that up so i'm just gonna send you that if you have a pure book someone would send you also that's number two apparently so there's only one more that was chosen like i guess first as a choice well you know how many of these do you think they're actually manufacturing i i have no idea seven patty pops i didn't know that this was a thing vinyl funko pops for directors specifically there's a ryan johnson there's a pike jenkins surely there's like a jj abrams and a ryan johnson i'm interested to do is a poll of who the best one is do you think we should allow multiple answers or just one no one one let's go with one i'm a multiple it seems fair oh you can mean you can do one of each no one make them commit one one make them commit this seems to be more passionate on the one side so i'm gonna go with them yeah fine they i'm sorry jade they just wanted it more i feel like this is not going to be a contest honestly i shout it louder okay that makes me right uh who do you think is going to win then because i'm not sure i'm going to say silco silco is going to win he's he's going to win silco's hands down he's going to win yeah especially because we've spent what three consecutive nine hour podcasts giving him a time bath more out of i don't know what i'm like every time every time we showed up in a scene we're like yeah those words last time that he would uh he was our favorite and i saw a lot of people in shadow so umaduba oh yeah i called him umaduba umaduba yeah yeah look at that yeah already umaduba's you know do the right he's got himself five votes you know wow umaduba look at him umaduba umaduba i wonder if that spelling is actually influenced for people to pick him probably has yeah well he's he's voted above vi right now i think you're lying chat look i love umaduba but to be fair i basically like vi is so low well well is she anybody's favorite everybody likes her a lot but uh is would she be anybody's favorite i said she's my second silco silco is the character that i think is the most like the biggest achievement in terms of writing craft and then um i think it's probably jinx yeah we get a lot of robotting right now i'm getting a lot of robots i don't hear any robots uh no well it was a brief robot but we're good now yeah look at him run away with this one yeah yeah it's definitely one but uh it's interesting because it's like it's between silco and jinx victor and vander the next sort of tia down competition even uh kaitlyn is very and echo actually surprised to see jay solo i think it's neat that jay voted for kaitlyn though i actually did not vote for i voted for silco oh there's one vote for echo too so i could have voted for echo the sympathy vote yeah nobody give a coke to our character nobody's favorite is savika which makes sense it's fine that doesn't surprise me but you know he's a backstabbing cunt oh my god you can't say that he literally just said that you're fucking moron i think it's interesting that jinx has managed to score this high with a lot of people um yeah i think they must have it is that is a hard character to nail dare i say i would say so yeah i think it's hard to write characters that don't properly process well what they are feeling that's something i have a lot of admiration for as well in terms of writing that very human experience of having a lot of feelings bouncing around inside of you you don't really know what the hell to do with and the show really knocks out of the park with jinx in that regard um but yeah the uh the jay score um i've seen that reflected in a lot of the subreddit discussions for arcane where he's just not popular there at all people like jay says meh i don't think he is not mad no i think he's very well written and goes for a very important set of events but uh there's something about him that people just don't find him as compelling um i'm not entirely sure what it is maybe he's less complex than the other characters it is interesting because he is out of all the complex characters i'd say jace is low on the list um but i feel like it's traditionally complex though that's the thing he's still good but then you got like you got silco and jinx my god are they complex as shit they're very fascinating you don't get a whole lot of people like silco and jinx so i think a lot of people are like damn they finally did it they did this character archetype that i could get behind dude and i haven't seen much of it we're there i think jace is a kind of fairly unique character uh archetype in that regard though because like i described him he's a character who's very idealistic and has a lot of energy and a lot of like drive to do good but he's got all sorts of voices pulling him in different directions and he doesn't know how best to use that the the power of the wields but i think we can argue that we've seen characters like that before many times same with katelyn i don't know like who this isn't even a meaning it seems like reality it's real it's just kind of like a and we've got these pictures as well um that's just raw sewage this isn't what is happening here that's that's bokeh boba fat this is my thing just amazing that's just raw sewage what the fuck well you just hate bigot but the other one is uh your arcane despite a few structural flows i'm guessing the overall quality of this is the absolute best we've seen in a long time well thank you yeah she she should be happy ol vai is representative of the show it's not exactly like for those who've been through all three of these streams we think pretty highly of the show yeah yeah we don't typically find that that often exactly i would say so far that it is the best show that we've seen since breaking bad oh it has to do with why pull it's not why yeah uh i was i would rate dad is like well i mean it was okay what the fuck you guys will talk about yeah i think you're high is better than this even if i like this more you're a flyer fuck yeah you are a flyer um flyer yeah i think i think that's probably it that's over silco is the clear winner with katelyn going in last yikes hoggy where someone voted for savika yeah the speaker's gotten two votes um the pissy votes because we mentioned her yeah yeah but they singed as below savika now it's like damn well they're even well yeah yeah it's being because i don't know well probably because he's below it gotta work on that yeah but he's not actually no he is he's literally below her can you see that yeah and then you go down and he's there so he's below her in the sense of below her what we're talking about literally below her i i just think that's a fail literally below hi mabuba is above both of them um i don't know these results i guess makes sense they line up i think that makes sense it's pretty i like how it's how well vanda typically scores and he's only in three yep he's such how do you just like vanda how do you dislike him he's a good heimer and he left a strong impression on everyone um molla another question for the guest where does this show rank among your all-time favorite stories second favorite oh schnizzle what's your first friggin bed oh fair enough all right um i come back to it a lot more than i since you were first should we to match the order then go metal and then me and then bring you doj that's that makes sense this is really stupid i have no fucking clue well literally whoever wants to go down from my enthusiasm so fuck you uh i'll just go next i think it's like second after bligh well all right um i know it's in my top five i can't be certain it's in my top three but it's close but it ain't my number one it probably isn't my number two but it probably fits in my guess your number one's buffy the yeah buffy and angel was a package two um i think is bligh i very much love that fucking story uh and then yeah this show it's then in the running it could be it's competing with other things um but hey like if we get another set of seasons that are as good as this one and they tie into each other like significantly and stuff it could get its way into being number one i don't mean it's pretty fucking impressive for one season absolutely bligh doesn't have enough fight scenes true that is very true it's also not scary yeah i didn't find this scary it was it was missus they said it was horror it was really just girls kissing yeah which is kind of scary but it's scary to some horrible i mean uh yeah of course it's not horror all right who's left i'm not i'm not really i don't know i don't know i can rate my favorite stories you know well you got no choice to chatter us yeah i'll fuck i guess it's definitely i don't know wow all right do you want to go first fringy i still need to think well so for me i uh i don't think i often like pick a favorite for anything uh there's usually like this big group of things that i value uh sitting up there when i think about my favorite stories it's like again it's always gonna be this big vague group of well i guess not big it's it's i guess it's a reasonably small list of like super duper favorites but it's it's um it's high up um but i guess you know like if you were to ask me well what world do you prefer the world where arcane exists and the simpsons doesn't or the one where the simpsons exists in arcane doesn't it's like that's easy for me in terms of choosing the simpsons because i value it really highly but the problem is it's like well do you value it's the highly is a narrative or do you value it highly for its comedy and there are a lot of shows i value highly for their comedy not strictly their narrative um so it's a bit hard for me to figure out where exactly it would sit in terms of my favorites i really really do like it though okay um shit uh it is it is definitely in top five it's certainly in top three i think probably gonna just die with the three one instead of the five one then well i'm working out my head as i go shut the fuck up i was doing a process of elimination as i latest simpsons 20 years are pretty garbage though i do you got like like a solid eight or nine seasons there of gold i don't know how are you gonna look past that and also the 20 seasons aren't garbage this is just not true there's like a lot of good seasons of simpsons that follow they're just not as good as even as the golden age even the new stuff even the very new stuff it's seen a bit of a revival and it's not as it's certainly not bad at least the stuff of it that i've seen the very new ones which isn't much to be fair but probably scores third place still better than like oh boy it's kind of new animated comedies that come in here so what third place Theo said third place not bad not sure it might be second it's like tied with disco elysium well so that was something that was in my brain as well as like what about like movies and video games these all slot in when i'm thinking about favorite stories i was trying to pull from everything i was just thinking about serious to be honest i think we can make it easier by saying just consider tv shows that's not easy just considering tv shows yeah uh does anime still count i'll fucking know that's tv shows yeah why did you have to ask that secondly but anime is disqualified so that's not fair i don't fucking know people have weird uh fucking you know classifications so it's second place then all right um i think it's something i need to because i mean for instance when i think about angel i think that was one i had to sit with for a while before i was ready to be like oh boy that show i think it's the same here it's like i think i want to sit with it for a while before i start making the decision it's very fresh yeah well and that's the thing we've probably missed uh praises and criticisms um obviously the comment section should be able to take care of it as well as maybe the subreddit um though this isn't the end of talking about arcane because that video has to be covered it is so tis of me um i imagine that video will make me really angry is that right it will you and rags specifically because rags is very much likes marcus marcus is i nearly said one of my favorites but i can't say that because then i'd be including everyone but yeah he's really good i know me um these are pretty good memes by the way i like all these yeah long kong we watched long kong was called the book of bogat third episode seven for a bit there yeah yeah we can't fit arcane into this podcast like maybe if we do multiple episodes oh yeah we actually i think a lot of people in chat now are asking theo what is your first with that anime qualifier no allowed to know it's the monogatari series okay i've never heard that yeah don't watch it oh theo does why not people who don't understand it to watch it right that's what it is i'm sure of it i'm actually really curious what's worth of a map though i just don't want people to watch it it's just onto me it's like it's my favorite show don't watch it look what you've been in enough internet arguments okay okay are you worried that we're gonna say it's shit well partially yes i don't want to deal with that okay all right um oh it's springy i don't know if you've seen this before definitely an arcane meme it's still loading for me it takes me a little while oh you're gonna have to click it as well because it's a bit of text where i can read it out i guess oh uh yeah i guess i was coming first in this mario kart oh my god look at it it's a whole thing it's a whole meme look at all these drawings oh my god actually a front for friggy's goo lab uh to which uh what's the situation in the lanes who's just someone else want to raid the uh i think it's a vicar is the purple then so i silk goes dead both cities devolved into chaos pizzi he was quite a useful asset despite everything we secured all the necessary data about shimmer it uses and it's uses and long tims if it's long tim effects i'm afraid that's useless to me now get rid of it and then i'm entering e fap was that 142 172 172 all right it's the consistency after careful examination i've concluded it's not viscous enough to be classified as goo this is the thing i've been working on though it looks much more promising and i think there's a lot of great that's a sack right that is that was a tease of the sack when he came out that's really good i'm making that sack just go ahead and do it goo everybody oh yeah that was uh it's a good meme it's a good baby good shit seriously that was really cool who i've made it um it's uh this isn't even okay but it's what i just want to show because i got it recently i grew up surrounded by carby no it is wonderful yeah the coins in the helmet as well yeah there's a good one at least curvy beams have been awesome you're really good it's not worth it curvy don't try and gain his abilities you're getting dumber he'll learn how do you stick and that's his ability i think i keep forgetting to show this on the stream i think we've have we only shown this on um in calls we've ever shown this on stream i think we might have yeah we should yeah well throw it up there this is something really neat we've talked a little about all the costume design throughout our kmb and fucking great um but having the letters most associated with them in their clothing it's just like that's really cool uh that's just uh that's just that's our direction right there it's characters line it's fantastic it's people with an idea you didn't have to do this but you did that's cool i like that you will learn rifle add stick i think the quote is he says i will take rifle add stick and i will go to destroy the gun train i need the stick oh and yes and there was this one i met it it came in and regrettably could not make it into last of the um boba fat recordings but um an important meme sad the rags isn't here to appreciate it oh you've got to save that for rags i couldn't show it i gotta show him yeah there's a lot of pride in freeing stands there he's like this is this is i'm so proud of the cream but it's not cream it's goo it's my goo you know not having a good day something i thought of that would be really fun i like the idea i want to uh i always talk about i want to dabble in in in video game making and i remember the other day i was like i feel like there's got to be an idea of a video game where you play as me trying to like make goo and like you're trying to produce do for what you know like you got to go through the experimentation phase and then you got to you know start doing like distribution manufacturing your tycoon nail it up yeah like yeah fringies goo tycoon or something like that um i like that as a concept so it's kind of like it's like factorial except you're making goo uh yeah like yeah it's it's all it's goo and other yeah associated adjacent um substances yeah call it tygoons tygoon that's a good name say yeah don't get damn he's got the gas mask already um yeah i don't know what the other what because this thing i just want to make sure we've covered all the things we wanted to say and then maybe have some like summary things about arcane but um is there anything you guys are thinking of or do you feel you know what we've we've exhausted the topic of arcane we really have yeah i would say there's nothing more to be said i that it was good those are my notes please write more yeah 100 yeah well needless to say when arcane season 2 comes out we'll be watching it as it releases we won't be waiting oh yeah we will that's for sure we will give it big thumb up bum to see what's going on uh all the production elements just just top-notch it's not even just the writing which is always nice um oh the fucking animation holy shit production elements the animation in service of the writing and to you know make this a really strong audio visual experience and to complement what's going on in the writing room there's a lot of communication back and forth it feels like between all of the people who worked on this someone said i still don't like arcane it would be weird if everyone liked it so it's good that there's well max i say to that relax i used to be in a position of like outright affirming something that is universally loved and super popular so you know more people could dislike it that'd be cool yeah it makes it easier for us to like it when it's not as popular well i wonder what the one-star reviews of arcane say i've seen what arcane critics say i've seen it it's not it's not good you don't need any more of it well i'm just gonna have a look and i will share anything if i if i so the studio is french right i couldn't tell from how good the show is there's something there that needs resolving they're friends they have them he's like super pleased he finished watching it he's like i wonder who made that looks up useful to teach productions his face just falls how could this be french i'm sorry because you're shitting on the french yeah what are they gonna do surrender it's not even been 20 minutes yet so um that's arcane season one eef out coverage three full episodes and yes they are full episodes all right i won't be here in anything else you long guides you long yeah looms um and i think we're probably going to end there specifically because i don't have a lot of time left today unfortunately and um i'm very close to getting something completed okay chat yeah again something i mean close when this day will happen i was just gonna say that the super chats from this stream and the previous one it'll just be an arcane catch-up i imagine next wednesday um or the coming wednesday i should say the uh but like so you got nothing nothing's coming out sunday anymore right boba fed's dead fucking it's done and we can finally get back on things that aren't boba fed okay can we go now i don't know i'm referencing there some show or movie it's fine oh i think it's newt from aliens they're dead okay can i go now yeah anyway um so this will be re-uploaded on the sunday and then wednesday you get the stream and then saturday we'll be doing another efap of some kind i'm not i'm so sure which one i'll even be yet but at the end of that efap i will tell you what the video is because it's that close to being done and it'll likely be done by then um finally am i right it's been a while uh we i just been working on it for for for all of the things um and i didn't even tell anybody what it was yet freeing on the other hand told everybody what what he's working on fool i didn't that was my mistake it's coming all right i'm working on it it's i'm working on it every day it'll be done eventually but um it's okay to tell people what you're working on release no it's not okay it's literally evil uh the the release i'm working on a lego star wars video fuck you evil release date for the video is is pretty much intended to be uh the fourth of march and there's not really anything that should stop me from doing that so um oh boy but i i rudely prevented theo from saying something additionally to what he was saying you may now continue i just uh someone in the chat mentioned they wanted to uh uh or each of us to answer the question of favorite song in the show i don't know if we have time for that but uh finale song for me yeah finale song yeah finale that's great i really like the song when it's uh vayan and um and he's in chase fighting those people i really like that one i don't like the um the bridge fight drinks and echo song that one's really good too yeah the dynasties and dystopia oh uh das i'm having trouble with that one i don't know that song there's a couple of good ones well i would yeah then i'd have to go ahead and go with snakes the uh the one where uh by and uh jay sir battle on the dudes mm-hmm good one i mean it works with it it definitely works with what it is and then of course i it's either that or goodbye because it's like oh after the end of episode three it's stung um but yeah is that is that it is that it have we done it oh i got of course you all super chat smaller i shall get to them we're gonna get to the lot of them and it's gonna be real sexy trust me give me that big ol sexy trust uh though i was just thinking there are no more of those types of questions are they like um favorite thing that thinged i think we went through them all right i find that um favorite episode is a boring question because it's just like i don't even know that anybody here has a easy answer for that other than choosing which episode has their favorite scenes in it yeah i'm gonna say most often it will just be i pick the episode that has my favorite scene like yes um favorite hair of a character i mean we're talking like favorite character design that might be uh i think it might be i think uh i was i was i i think i am uh i really like mel's character design but i also like jinx's character design as well i think that it's an improvement on the video game that's that's for sure massively uh silk guy is a pretty cool character design as well especially with his coat hymen dinga yeah um the the i'm just gonna start listening to them all look at ironically jericho he's pretty cool looking yes he is the techno union guy hell yeah i wonder if there's just a pile of gears on the floor at the beginning of season two it's like oh no there he is no you hear a vague like winding down noise you guys missed when mel's mum said that mel's mel weakened her was pretty huge for both the characters that's true we did we did miss that we did actually miss that my bad and it was amongst all the other yeah it's it's hard for us to record everything honestly and there's gonna be people out there who like can't wait for them to get to that scene then we don't even mention it and they're like oh listen for 20 hours and you guys don't even apologize for that but um i guess if we can talk briefly about it it's uh mel probably never got that answer from here before in her entire life the reason is is you made me look weak because mel didn't have the balls to kill their political enemies we're needed i couldn't fucking no no she didn't say that she says because you weakened me like she couldn't stand the look in her eyes whenever it was told whenever it was time to do things that were necessary to do well that yeah but so she didn't say she looked me so yeah but the idea is that whenever people needed to be killed which is the right thing to do i from her pov she would just judge her and be like hmm and then that would make a question whether or not she's doing the right thing um which is bad for her as a leader yeah you're no you're right that that tariff is like the parental look it's another take on the whole family thing that the show is i'd say she lost her nuts she was struggling to do the things she saw as necessary because of her daughter makes you think um you guys also missed it when savika said vander had his chance yep that didn't happen right before she lasered all of vander's embryos it's a weird scene but you know um and um the medically relevant also no wait no i got nothing there was a joke growing there but it's gone unless anybody has anything else we will end there uh yeah is there anything else i'll i'll do metal's forge tomorrow what is it on that's happening uh i'm gonna be talking about smiling friends hey haven't anyone on it's talking no it's just just me sorry well i mean anything to promote smiling friends i see it as a worthwhile endeavor yeah the friend someone said to me that that joke was dumb you're wrong that's it's one of my favorite jokes in that show and i got a lot of favorite jokes well the reticent's man is the best joke like he bought on oh someone's a favorite actor damn it so i'm assuming they're saying favorite performance for acting from all of the people in uh jinx it's gonna be jinx for me yeah no especially if you get to include powder yeah yeah i'm gonna have to go with that one too but man it's a fucking great selection of performances it's a tough hill of climb that kind of character and she nailed it uh but yeah all right that's we'll we'll stop there like so i'll collect them all up and put them into a big thing we're gonna do them all on wednesday thank you all for joining us for this wonderful little journey and uh go watch arcane i guess if you haven't you may as well at this point we've gone through all of this even having watched all of this and having the whole thing spoil yeah why not yeah why not um yeah thank you so much and we will see you next time goodbye bye