 David says, I'm looking for a good PDF editor that is free or a one-time payment. My needs are small. And before you say the built-in preview app, that thing sucks. Yeah, it depends on what you want to do. So yeah, my reflection as well as a preview doesn't always get it quite right. At least, so every now and then I will use PDFs pretty much for my taxes. And I've tried to use preview and it doesn't always get it quite right. But you know what does get it right? I mean, how about the people that made PDF? So one recommendation is there's something called Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, which is free. And I've had better results with that. So. That's not really a PDF editor though, right? Like you need to go to the full version. That's why I said, yeah, I don't know if I'm interpreting editor properly, if it's filling out forms. Got it. Then that would be my choice. Because preview has better editing capabilities and markup capabilities. I would probably limit it to markup versus editing, which I think is, I don't consider preview to be a PDF editor, but it does let you do markup on a PDF, which is quite nice. Yeah, so, yeah, so it's not, yeah. So maybe I misinterpreted it. Yeah, it's not quite an editor, but with the free options, you can fill out forms. So that's what you want to do. That would be my recommendation. If you're looking for a PDF editor, then I would say PDF pen is the way to go. Yeah, it is the way that I go. Do you know? But I feel like I had reason to edit some PDFs, actually several times recently, and I wanted to change some text on them, and PDF pen will do it, but even though I use it for this regularly enough to know exactly what I need to do in the software, like I understand the functions of the software to do it, it's still this super janky process. And as soon as I start editing things, the PDF just goes like all wonky, and I'm in an edit mode, even filling out forms, frankly, in PDF pen is like sometimes like, I don't know. It's not, I feel like the people who maintain it, because it's changed hands several times, that it feels to me like the people who maintain it don't use it, or at least don't use it for the purposes that I use it for, because as soon as I do anything in it, even just adding like text to it, like when I travel, we have, you know, our workflows here, right, at Backbeat. One of our workflows still relies on printing out the insertion orders that come in, and I do it because that way I can, there's like a five step process that we do internally to process the order, and I like to be able to, I write the five steps on there, like just one word for each of them, and then I can cross them off, and I know it's all been done. But when I travel, and I was traveling for more of May than I was not traveling, I would do these as a PDF, and so I would use PDF pen to put those five words on there and then just draw lines through them. But as soon as I get like finished with a text box, I click out of it, I'm like not in text edit mode anymore. It's like, or if I wanna go back to a text box and edit it, I have to change modes intentionally, and then tap on it, it's just like, I always feel like the software has no idea what my intention is. And maybe I'm being picky, in fact, I'm definitely being picky. I certainly didn't get enough sleep last night, but I have used this software for years, and it's just clunky to, I feel like I'm always fighting with the interface of the software to get it in the mode that I want, and then it either stays in the mode too long, or it doesn't stay in the mode at all. It's never in the mode that I want it in. Let me put it that way. That's my TLDR on this. I'll give you that. You double click a tool, and it's supposed to stay there, and then it doesn't. Yeah. That's a little frustrating sometimes. Right, it's like, what's going on here? You know, I just highlighted text and I hit the edit button. Don't you think maybe I wanna be in a text mode to like type some things? Like, I don't know, what the heck else would I be doing? You know, like those things. So I would love to find a more, a PDF editor that is more in line with how my brain works, because clearly I haven't been able to adapt to PDFPEN despite 10 years of use, right? There's two versions of it too, though. There's PDFPEN and PDFPEN Pro, and I forget what the difference is between those. I haven't used Pro in a long time. The difference is mostly that you can create PDF forms, but in terms of the editing and those things, I mean, they're effectively the same, at least for what I need to do with them, because I have Pro, but it doesn't, I don't know. Well, remember PDFPEN is available in SetApp. It was, I don't think it is anymore. No, I'd looked. Okay. Really? Because I'm still using it, interesting. Yeah, and I looked at the, so the copy I have, I think I got it from SetApp. That's how I got it. Speaking of SetApp, that's another suggestion. So the nice thing about SetApp, so SetApp is a software subscription service, so you pay monthly, and then you get access to a whole bunch of things, but the thing is they also have a search tool. So you can go and type in PDF and it'll list all of the titles that do something with PDFs. So that's another suggestion. Yeah, I'm looking here. I see Nitro PDF Pro is inside SetApp and is listed as a PDF editor. So I'll try that. Sure. But I'd be curious for anybody out there to share, like what, maybe what I'm experiencing with PDFPEN Pro is just the way PDF editors work. Maybe there's something fundamental to PDFs that there's a limitation and Dave, you're hitting the walls and quit being so unreasonable. Or maybe there's something better. And I would love to know that. They've pulled that though. Shocked. Shocked. Brian Monroe in our Discord chat at live.macgeekub.com says that LibreOffice will edit PDFs. And so I will check that. Barry Kay is advising that we check out PDFExpert. So we will check out that. Yeah, so we've got some options here. And there's one that Barry Kay also mentions about PDFPEN Pro for OCR. And in SetApp, there's one that says that OCR is everything. Was that the mic? Or was the other one? No. Scan an OCR with Prismo. Scan an OCR in the document. Prismo is awesome. Yeah. And then the one I'll mention that because remember a PDF is basically an image of a document. Well, not really though. No, okay. Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Yeah, no, a PDF of OCR it. It can be an image. And if it is then OCR is your friend. But no, most PDFs to make them efficient, they put the text in there and then they embed the character. Only the necessary characters from the font that was chosen are also there to keep it efficient. So if you only have like the word heat, let's say, right? They would only put three characters from that font in there, the P, the E and the T. And that way, it's not embedding all the letters that you're not using from that font. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying and getting it wrong, but yeah. Well, where I was going with that is I've had some success and certainly not with editing the text and that sort of thing using Acorn, which is an image editor. Right. You know, if you need to get a line, like when sometimes I've found using PDF pen, I'll type something in and it'll shift the line in a form down a little bit. When you go back to Acorn and you can put that line back across where it belongs. All right, yeah. I mean, but that's really granular and slow and you're clunky and... Yeah, for sure. It works. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it works, right, right.