 Digest at the dark and we're back unfiltered and uncensored talk with young alumni of historically black colleges universities Thanks for joining us for another episode on HBC you digest calm and on serious 142 HBC you Howard University's Digital imprint on serious XM satellite radio back in the house with or is the Morganite? Fred brother Katie line brother Katie I should say yeah, yeah driving and ordering food despite bragging about having a microphone in his home Not at home recording live from the road And tiff once again about to get thrown off the show. So I'm not getting thrown off of nowhere. Um, mm I'm gonna leave that alone. Um So we That will hurt my feelings and then I'll be sad. No, that's why I'm not saying anything. You're not getting thrown off anything yet. Um So let's let's start off with um Last week we had a commencement episode but it was it was kind of serious because we talked to owner and say about their experience in advanced degree programs and it was really It was really powerful in the sense to to hear Two hbc grads talk about the process of getting into and surviving Graduate school. Um, so I'm hoping a lot of people got something out of it So I guess we're going to continue the commencement theme and talk about the way That some of these young people are doing teasers for commencement And I don't know if the teasers trailers are what people are referring to the mass But if you get on Twitter YouTube You see these Extended video presentations of folks celebrating their pending graduation. So Last year, I think one of the top ones was a brother from virginia state um Who did like a like a Like a remake of lupes touch the sky And that was that was cool and that was to be expected because virginia state has a you know an elaborate Video production program. So I wasn't surprised by that and I enjoyed it This year ors, um Is the is the brother from fam you? Who has it reminds me a little bit of the far sides old music video um Where he's kind of walking through campus and people are like throwing stuff He changes his outfit and all kinds of stuff as he's walking through campus um what First what's your reaction to the the the young people doing these kind of videos? um, and do you think that it's I obviously think it's helpful, but do you think it it's Hey, great job. We love to see it. Want to see more of them or is it y'all a bordering on the point of doing too much I mean it depends on where you are obviously There's a conservative bone in me. That's like You know, I wouldn't do that personally by the people who would I forget i'm not gonna say who it was but a friend of mine was talking about they wanted to go redo their because they saw They were like I need to go back to school. It wasn't it wasn't a dream It wasn't a part right especially at fam because you know fam has that a very iconic shot that you see a lot with The eternal flame in the lead hall And people people now have like these orange and green like smoke machines They catch the they catch the flame when it's all at night And the sun is clear and it's like the lights are on so it's so it's a lot different than than what was done Even when I was in school and that was only a couple years ago Now I could I could understand the photography because there are a lot of hbc campuses that are picturesque like that So fam you was one eternal flame boy state actually has um, what is that that they got a flame in the middle of campus um You know how it has founders found his library um And and in the yard I mean so there there are some campuses where it's appropriate where you can do an all-out photo shoot And it looks hey, that's great because you know Not only are you looking good as a as a soon-to-be graduate, but the campus just has a great presentation like that But see but video is the next step of that So when you again in his video he starts in front of lee hall Like the it's mr. Fam you so he's greek so he goes through the set He goes past the greek wall Like it encompasses his entire experience. That's a really like Big part it's probably the heart. It's really the heart of fam used campus is mok Which what runs from you know all the way from the the end where the train tracks are all the way down to Where like the paw medals and stuff are so it's a big point of the campus And video was just the next step of that to show like before you may have done a long photo shoot In front of all these different places and put them all together in like one folder Now We're just doing videos and add music and choreography and i'm sure we're only seeing the beginning of this Uh by the time we get to fall graduations and then into next year spring I'm sure we're going to be seeing you know virtual reality stuff stuff like that It's going to continue to to grow And and first of all, let me let me because i'm old the the inclination for most folks out there thinking I hate this. I actually love it because I think it's it's positive Press for the school And it's young people doing positive things. I don't really see any any of the students doing anything. Um You know provocative like they're not cussing you didn't see you didn't see the family criminal justice student one Maybe I might have missed that one. What did I miss? So there was a criminal justice student and i'll find the picture where he was looking at the at the body looking at the day That was interesting because I say I saw on Social media he was defending it saying you know a lot of people if you saw somebody in a lab coat Who wanted to be a doctor you wouldn't criticize that and if you saw somebody who was who wanted to be a judge And they had on the you know a robin and had a gavel you wouldn't criticize that So why are you criticizing me acting out my career ambition of being I guess a forensic Or a homicide investigator. I guess what i'm saying is that but it's still sensationalized is homicide and anyone Obviously within the the black community we are We are affected by You know by high rates of violence in different areas and it's a noble thing to go do that I have friends who are in law enforcement. I just think Taking making your graduation picture something that's going to be a representation of you celebrating You know four to six years of hard work and sacrifice to be leaning over A dead body of another black person just really doesn't sit for well for me personally Now again, you can do what you want to do I just don't want that type of picture coming in my mail saying thank you for my graduation, you know So you thought that one was was bordering on doing too much And of course it came from the the capital doing too much. I love my school though, but I was I was not when I saw it. I said this is a family coming up to student He took classes in the comments. This is probably what it what it is and again I I'm I'm sure he's going to be very successful in his career and It definitely the moment that brought brought some attention his way. I just I'm a little more touchy with with murder and homicide and stuff like that. So for me I just didn't really like the the imagery of it that one kind of pushed the envelope. Yeah It's graduation is supposed to be celebrating a moment of success and celebration Leading towards your next next point of your career and there's made it for ways you can show yourself Doing forensics or doing, you know, you can get very creative with it. I thought it was less creative and more For shock value, but again, you know, it had it made an impact. We're talking about it now Um, but I think it shows that students always going to push push the envelope I'm sure if you ask the student 10 years from now He probably have different opinions about it because obviously you you change as you mature as you mature, right Tiff, what do you what do you think about these the commencement trailers? Sorry, I was muted because chewing. Um, as I was saying, um, I guess I'm like And different to it Only because I mean, like if I see something and I'm like damn that was great I can appreciate it, but like I don't really care either way Really? Yeah, I think I think there's two there's two ways I look at it one the artistic well I can say that I would like to see more I guess content Or how I got here Like an interviews interview style thing more so than Just it being on the timeline for likes and shit. I mean likes and stuff. Oh boy. Um, would but would it go viral if it was just like a A stand-up kind of interview with some if I I mean, of course there should be some artistic whatever with it But if I was using it for my purposes to show students that I'm working with them at home I would definitely use something like that But if it's just like You taking a picture and there's and you're just on the yard and you look nice or there's like cool effects on it Okay, but what else can I put with this to make it make sense to somebody that's trying to get where you are But katie, don't you think that that that's the kind of thing like these presentations are the thing that Induce young folks to say oh, I'm gonna check out, you know, that school because it looks like it's live there Actually, no to be perfectly honest No, because that would suggest that a whole bunch of high school students are following you and we know that's not the truth This is purely self-interest. I don't personally hate it though, but it goes viral though Like it's it's yes. I agree. It starts out with followers But enough people share it and then other people get access to it and what I compare it to is This is the same generation if I'm not mistaken that was doing prom proposals Where you would get a whole bunch of people from your high school together and say hey Will you go to prom with me? You know what that wasn't a thing That is starting to become a thing and I I wonder if this is a chicken and egg thing like I do I do believe it is because I mean like I think the first time I saw was towards the back end of my college career So that was in 2012. It's 2019 where people was trickling a lot of these written Ferraris and yes It's the same thing Bro, it's so it's so crazy when I see this stuff I'm like, yo these people's parents like people were really like no one had on nothing designer Wasn't no ferragamo belts in my prom like no Like my prom the best part of my prom was that we had DJ big john aka that better be cranking come and do Like a five minute set with Angie and it's because my we called into the radio station. I remember she was doing the proms I remember. Yeah My high school one of the proms that she came through with DJ big john He did like a five minute go go said then we had like a go-go after party or whatever Interesting But that was like that that was the highlight. It wasn't a window. It wasn't no ferraris pulling up And most you may have had like some ice parents bends that was like the Let me interject this too though, right because I remember I think part of it is how much is this stuff costing So let's just say for the sake of argument You're not paying for a production team, right? How much does it um a dslr camera cost, right? You know 500 dollars and you get to keep it for the rest of your life. So all you need is one person with a First of all, that's from the school of journalism I was gonna say if you if you're at the right school if you're visiting a state or fam you you can get the equipment Exactly. So it's the equipment is almost copy has a recording studio Like I think every student every school that has an art department has a recording studio So it's not like all you need is access to the studio and as a student You get access just because you're a student because they people want they want you to take the classes So they're not going to say no, you can't come in here. So yes, let's do some club stuff inside of The art room Do you think every school could do this like so it makes sense for Howard it like the bigger hbc used to do it But if a school like and this is no shade when I say this like is it If Voorhees a Voorhees student did it do you think we get the same response? I mean they I hate to say it, but they don't have to compete because it's The exposure of a Howard student a family student a Tennessee state student or whatever is going to get it's going to get more eyes quicker If you're from Voorhees, you're going to have to have Some serious weight coming behind you got to have a network, right? Yeah Yeah, and also because I mean again just just the fact of like my freshman class FM Is bigger than like 60 percent of hbc used So even if it just went viral within my freshman class That's thousands of people that's bigger than schools like miles or wily or a list of other schools Who's the entire campus? Doesn't have just what my freshman class has so it's it's different and difficult I wonder if schools should Take the initiative to try to produce these things. So the students are obviously doing on their own and they're very creative And they're doing a good job Because it's going viral, you know media outlets are picking them up Do you think that the school should invest and start trying to do some of these videos? Only for the top students I don't think only for the top students only because you don't know What it took for a student to get to the end point And if you only show the quote top students, you'll miss a student with a story That you really might need to hear Like how much investigate know if you're going to do to find the best story for every graduation Let me tell you how hard that is to do if you put out if you put out a call And how it does put out a call Well, a lot of schools do but the the question is one are students willing to share it To will they will they share if I was on the radio with the president? Well, you you probably bodied your way dude to the radio I did not But the other thing is will they do it will they do it on time? And just because a student may want to share something it's like or said like They may get there and be like well if if I put this out there now What what is that going to sound like, you know two years five years 10 years down the line? So I you know what may be a good idea now Um may not be going going forward So it is it is hard for those students to tell that story and I think that students and rightly so They may not trust the university to be as creative as they might be um With doing some of this stuff because these students, you know, they they put videos out and do things They don't have to worry about copyright infringement A university has to has to think about that or how much sound are we using and how much of these marks do we want to show and Um, what's the liability of shooting a scene like this on campus? The students aren't really constrained by that if you drop the camera like okay, you drop the camera If we drop it that's a procurement issue You know what I mean so And because it's so much gray area with that why would the students the schools waste time and I think that would um kind of diminish the uh The whole feeling of doing your own video Well that and that's another thing that I want to get into so I want to continue on this track about commencement Because the next thing I want to talk about is if this is what we're going through with videos Wait until these Cross in the stage moments come up And we saw what we saw how it went down last year. So every year I want to see how you guys feel I was going to be this year. I just have to dark. We'll be right back That is at the dark and we're back. Uh, just had a conversation about these uh, pre-commencement trailers online um, and now we want to parlay that into a conversation about Crossing the stage so every year We have to have this dialogue about What students and graduates do when they cross the stage and It delves into areas of like respectability politics and liability and um, all kinds of things that are all legitimate to talk about but I guess the first question I would ask you guys is if the videos Are approaching doing too much What do you guys expect on the stage this year considering last year we had People chest bumping and chancellor Doing a full drum major routine um praise dancing A number of things so what do you do you guys expect it to be On par with last year a little bit more than last year. What do you guys think are going is going to happen? All the way up If they couldn't do more I mean, I'll say this so a lot of schools and we were talking just in the chat earlier today um Because one of the guys in the chat from southern was like y'all have more than one commencement. I'm like, yeah I think that schools like the bigger the bigger schools have more Procedures in place the graduations. I mean the individual commencement ceremonies are shorter So like some schools have two sometimes three even the school like how are they have their like friday thing We actually take your name and stuff and it's saturday y'all just kind of sitting there So I think that there's ways that schools have like the bigger schools kind of have Removed that from the this ceremony possibility I don't think it matters as much as small schools because they don't have a time issue If you only have you know at most 500 graduates You're not going to have a big issue with with time versus a school Like where I graduated from where you got close to a thousand And you're outside in may on a football field with no shade. Right. It's a very different Different thing, but I think students are going to do what they do what they do I mean, obviously the the people who are a part of Greek organizations are going to do their their thing But one thing I noticed is usually men more than women, which is kind of interesting Like you normally see the more outlandish things from from male students You really don't see it from a lot of women students and maybe because they're wearing heels They don't what they want to like fall and really you know go all the way out, but Because I have seen that before People falling heels trying to do something too much on the stage So, but I think I think students are going to find ways to you know do Stuff I wouldn't be probably someone has confetti And I like some confetti off in the middle of the thing or like the little smoke confetti handhelds It's just a matter of time until these things go from graduation pictures onto the stage, right And so Of course, I expected to be over the top But what I would like to see this year is that um schools don't Or really penalize students or graduates who decide to do things. So like remember last year central, um Find a few young men. I think they were actually all alphas, but you know, whatever They find those That's a shot. Okay. I'll respond momentarily They withheld their degrees or something like that and it even though they went viral for what they did in their accomplishments the story itself on the back end central withholding and or um Finding them For for their actions that produced bad press So like this year, I kind of want everybody to be a little bit smarter Is this is this is this central state or central North Carolina central state now, let me Central state now, let me say I'm a meag, baby. When you say central, I mean, right? It's no Carolina central Hey, you know, I don't know nann nothing about sports like that. So I don't know why Because we're gonna be talking about sports in the last segment. Um, even better. Let me say for central state I didn't produce this now. I had a I had a con a conversation with, um For my female hbc president of the year, uh, sinthea jackson hamlin Extraordinary president the sister is sharp Gremlin alumna Now she had an experience where she had a q one year Who was stomping and performing and his foot, you know, the these these stages sometimes that parts of it are all of it Is rented But there are parts of it where there are specific platforms where you have a podium or something else or where a graduate may stand The q was performing. He stomped and his foot went through This part of the staging Okay, so that's so unfortunate now that of course you would expect that from a q alpha bias But what i'm saying is that painted her In her reaction and interpretation to should I let these students go Go all the way off on the stage Because she's thinking it ain't but for the grace of god that when he went through the stage that he didn't cut his leg open Or that they didn't that they didn't fall through it and break his leg Yeah, that's real. So um, and now imagine that happens or the whole stage caught fall down everyone Everyone falls or that happens and you're thinking about something that goes viral You tell him on negative press wait till somebody gets hurt doing something like this And the ambulance has to come in and stop commencement because somebody needs medical attention It only takes one so I understand that the executive view of this like y'all think it's funny until somebody Flips and misses you all operating on the impression that you're going to flip and execute it perfectly And you don't you don't you don't think about those flowers that are standing on the side of the stage if you slip and miss Sisters in heels praise dancing one of them heels goes out Or you trip over a microphone cord Or the other kind of things like and and I get it from an executive standpoint But I also get it from a cultural standpoint because you don't get but so many opportunities to celebrate like that, right Yeah, and I'm from I'll say this um Because it's really tough to legislate this right right how many people if let's say 500 graduate You have 500 graduates. How many of them are coming to the graduation practice? Where these guidelines are clearly stated Only the only the only the kids that care about the corn come to the practice. You must not you must not I'm with them more. You didn't go to practice. You all show up. You don't go to more. You don't go to practice You don't you don't get your degree. That's true. I didn't that was a thing. I didn't know that was a thing for some schools You got to get that card so you could get your degree at that. Yep. Yeah, I got that card Otherwise you gotta wait for it to come in the mail. Yeah That's tough. Well, I mean first of all cop and we ain't giving degrees a day of anyway. We don't have um Our um administration. This isn't big enough to print that many of that first. Oh, no, you're bad mouthing copping I love copping to death, but it just ain't happening with the five people that send that off Is copping one of those schools where they perform at the commencement? Yes, but we are um Some reason it's mostly christian Is right, so it's more a lot more praise dancing than you see the greeks Um, you know doing stuff and we don't have a deep band so you won't have any of our majors going crazy It's really just the it's really just that church feel like every time some every time you have a cop in graduation It's just like oh my god. I'm free. I'm free It's funny because you don't see every school do that. So however, I can't have you out There was a proposal one stage with the university presidents and the provost that I saw a couple years ago That's doing too much Now that's holding up the program. Yeah Um, I don't I don't like that. See that that's something that probably should have been booed because now you're holding up Everything like I I enjoy black love. I support it But a proposal a good proposal should take a good at least six or seven minutes So the commencement carry going hold on because video didn't go viral The commencement carried on they walked right past them. They kept handing out. Um, while he was proposing they kept they kept calling names Yeah, but I mean That's black excellence Indeed indeed it is they kept the program going while he proposed it to his girl Yeah, that's true. But um to my logic point these kids do pay a graduation fee And so part of that gives them a sense of entitlement that I'm going to do what I want since I paid to be on this stage Along with paying the tuition and I pay for the degree, right? Um, so it's only so much stopping them that you can do And then you're right It's going to take for somebody to get hurt before it to be like all right real awakening. We can't continue this So let me let me give two notes on this one every school doesn't do it You don't see people performing at fisk. You don't see people performing at hampton Um, they just have I guess a culture where it's like, yeah, you can try it. You might get tackled off this stage I'm not hard to throw that walker at you But they're you know, when you mostly see it at um the public's And that's and that's hey, that's that's part of the culture But they do have to mitigate the the the risk associated with it. Um and the the coverage of it because again It can easily become a story like oh great graduation was three hours long Which by the way the trustees are not here for Every time we have these stories What you don't see is the is the trustees hauling the president and the provost into a meeting like How are y'all going to shorten this ceremony because we as always said we're not sitting out here For three and a half hours in the sun like this every time And you got people in the audience falling out And getting high and leaving because they don't want to sit through it all that time Jared were you were you at Morgan when that that initial kind of uh where people got him and left? Well, no, but so yeah, people are here to give them leave every year. We have we have graduate walk off the field, but That's a Morgan tradition. But um, but no, you know, initially obviously Morgan always had their graduation with graduate school and undergrad together And I think after 2014 there was a big Stir from undergraduate students and from the board like we have to separate this like the school has gotten too big Like you can't be giving out 50 doctorates Yeah, and doing the doing the hooding and all that stuff reading the whole title of the dissertation Right. Yeah the dissertation beat six paragraphs long and it was just crazy and I remember They tried to separate it one year And it was a big fuss and the graduate students like called the baltimore sun and all this stuff And then eventually I guess Morgan just said we'll take the bad press or whatever And now it actually full it actually now have two separate ceremony and what a grad they have a grad school on friday and undergrad on saturday, but Morgan's approaching what's going to happen like I say like sam you they have Two separate Commencements on the same day They have like different schools at different times one in the morning one in the afternoon And I feel like schools like Morgan like ant like fam are going to be moving to a model where like these pwis For graduations on thursday friday saturday and sunday like u.h. Has like four graduations Because there's no way to make it possible to do a full commencement with 2000 3000 4000 graduates and that's the that's the level in which we're going to so I think saying students have a certain Saying that the katie's point students have a certain level of like oh, I earned this You did but they have to make it feasible as well for people because Quite frankly these schools are getting so big that there's no way to efficiently confer 500 600 plus degrees at one point at two o'clock in the middle of the summer Do you think if schools went to a formula where they always Broke the graduation out so let's say you start the ceremony You have your main commencement speaker and then you break out to individual colleges and schools That you would have as many people performing because it's In my mind and I might be wrong I can't recall Being at too many commencements where it was broken out and people still back flipped on the stage Like they do that when you have the main audience of the football field Like if you're a huge stadium if you got the whole huge stadium watching that's one thing But if you got the whole Hill field house watching that's something else But but how but howard is howard is brilliant because they have that friday ceremony I was about to say like howard had I mean saying the same thing with spellmen Like spellmen has spellmen graduations like four days Because you get down and they have howard is the entire week Yeah, so like so how does that work where they do it the whole week for people who don't know Say that again. How does that work so for people? They have each individual school and or college has their own ceremony where your name is called so Not commencement, but graduation ceremonies are all week And then saturday is the grand commencement on the yard And so you don't see people Like turning up and well people be turned on the yard, but they're not performing on the yard If you're gonna perform you're gonna perform at your seat Yeah, your name. Oh, yeah, or the day before whenever your ceremony is when your name is called Yeah, your name's not called at howard on saturday when you have Unless you're like, uh, I think doctorate or something like that where your name is called at the commencement Undergraduate through masters or whatever. I know masters is I think commits me to but yeah, no bachelors See they got to do something because and here's the other reason like more and more of these hbc's are getting, um In my mind higher profile speakers, right So you we've always gotten like legislators and stuff like that now you're starting to get like celebrities at some of these campuses And so I think that you run the risk if you are Running too long sometimes the speaker likes to stay and watch it But if y'all start going too long, what you're gonna have is the speaker leaving They're gonna say i'm not i'm not sitting through all of this i'm not staying for pictures I'm not staying for autographs and you miss a moment and it's actually may be missing an opportunity to network because you haven't Run the program as efficiently as you could have So I don't know if it if it matters to the students. I don't know if it if it should matter Um, but it's something that those things and the the reaction of the trustees That's that is not even to mention the reaction of the media which you know if they come in to cover it They only have a certain amount of time to grab interviews pictures and sound before they have to go back and cut a story on So they can't sit out there for hours and hours and hours so I don't I don't I don't know what the line is between execution and expression And I think it almost has to rest with every campus Reading the temperature of what your students going to do if you're fam you and you know, they're going back flip You probably should break it out If you're talladega And you don't have that concern you probably you know proceed as as you normally would And if you copy, you know, you keep you keep on praise dancing because that I mean As long as they're not falling out. I mean, it's okay. They eventually get across the stage, right? Yours wasn't too long, right Katie? No, I wasn't no longer than my high school graduation. See and it's Yeah, and I everybody know everybody so we just having fun. We weren't even paying attention what was going on on stage You weren't even paying attention I ain't gonna lie to you And this is why copper continues to to suffer In his reputation against morgan Um, okay. No, no, well Don't go there because I knew what you used to say. Um, here we go When we come back, uh, we're going to talk about some new coaches at morgan, uh, namely and howard, um, and the new culture of Bringing in high profile assistants and former nba players to run hbcu basketball programs the dodgers have to dark. We'll be right back Dodgers have to dark and we're back, um People throwing shade about new coaches tiffany not weighing in. Um, not a sports fan So we have had a big run on in some notable names being hired at hbcu basketball programs in recent years So the two most recent kenny blakley, uh A blank knee. Let me let me i'm sorry a dc product who played uh for duke university was an assistant um A lot of lot of big time programs harvard, uh Delaware a number of programs. He's he's coming to howard And then you have, uh, kevin brottis who's a maryland university of maryland assistant Um, going to lead up the bears basketball program Um, this is on the heels of wan dixon, uh, former university of maryland standout guard bottom one city product One of national title with maryland He's now running the program at coppin. This is On the heels of kenny anderson Going to fisk Jarvis haze getting an assistant coaching job at morehouse So you you know, you have a lot of former mba players a lot of high caliber Um college assistants finding their way to hbcu's Mostly in basketball, but you're starting to see it in football as well Don't forget lindsay hunter mississippi lindsay hunter, you know mississippi valley um Todd day at philander smith college. So there's a lot a lot of them. Um, Darryl armstrong used to be a clark Atlanta So, uh, joy and i think george lynch, uh, who was an mba a long time mba role player took his place She she was down there as an assistant as well at clark Atlanta. So you have all of these This pipeline which i'm going to talk about from the mba to the to the to the hbcu ranks But first of all, let me ask you guys so it Obviously, I would imagine this would be positive for the hbcu's for the name recognition of the name exposure alone um Since all of us have a new coach coming in Um, what do you guys think about one these these new coaches? And two the prospects that it presents for hbcu's to to get further on the map in their city in their region as a basketball product Hey katie, i'm gonna start with you because you actually you're in proximity to copping and wand dixon is like a like a hero in baltimore um So what I mean first having gone through it was a tough year Um expected, you know for wand in his first year What is your reaction to him running the program and the prospects of copping returning to glory? um I'm a little indifferent right because I don't think name recognition means you can recruit I am praying for his success as I want copping to be successful But honestly, I think they were just trying to attract students to the school And i'm not sure that wand dixon was that answer um And now I can you can say that for all of the um hbcu's that have hired You know former nba athletes of college high profile college assistants Can you recruit because see a lot of my problem with baltimore in general with the mirlan sports Network in general is that a lot of the top talent leaves mirlan um So my question is how do you keep the kevin de rance? From leaving mirlan How do you keep cudd mellow anthony in the state of mirlan even if they don't go to hbcu's? How are you keeping them here? And then once you get those those that tear that caliber of athlete to the mirlan schools Then how do you get their their teammates that were really good as well to come to your schools? Because that's what you're aiming for you know for a fact if you ain't getting espn Sponsorship, then you ain't gonna ever get a High-profile college athlete But you can definitely get that second tier student who just wants to go to school and play basketball It's how you recruit that how do you recruit that student? It's so interesting because you are so right every time I watch college basketball outside of the hbcu games it's I mean villanova temple syracuse north carolina I mean, it's it's nothing to hear somebody from from washington dc from prince george's county You know oxenhill maryland baltimore maryland. I mean you hear these guys that are starting for these power five conferences All over the mid-atlantic and it's like what how did How did he get out of first of all, how did he get out of maryland like so that nobody goes to maryland apparently And that's fine. I'm with that. I hope maryland fails but I mean the university of maryland that is but it is to say If you can't keep those guys at the university of maryland Then the honorable mention the second team all counties the third team all counties Can we honestly keep those guys too? I think maryland ruined the culture though. So people believe in the basketball and stay to maryland in general maryland That as well But don't forget maryland's top two players right now from from from maryland jaylin smith is from bolsomore He went to mouse st. Joe's anthony cowan went. He went to st. John. He's from pg. So They do they do all the way. They do have some local boys every once in a while playing for the turps um And they had and they have their recruiting class is pretty deep. They've done a decent job You can go back to to nick fowls went when when uh, tertiary first got there or whatever, but saying I mean maryland is not a very big state So I think I think to have the idea that kids who are from like no one did it No one ever did it better than john thompson jr. Old man john thompson getting reggie louis getting david win gate I mean even going down to tide water and getting la la's old morning getting alan iverson alan iverson uh victor page like I mean when you so when you look at we look at the the history of what Georgetown has done You know, they were probably the best at getting the best people from dc from bolsomore and from the subsequent You know kind of kind of region. I think it's difficult now with these national countries I mean, don't forget marquel force and i'm not kicking a draft. He's from of marlboro Mike You know and he went to university of washington So, you know, what it shows is that there really isn't there really isn't an apparatus to do this But even going back to where hbcu's are I think that where hbcu's can do best is really Doing better at getting those players who instead of going to sienna or vermont or new hamster or lafayette I mean, there are tons of local talent Who end up going to these same kind of scs style schools? Go to st francis And they don't go to hbcu and I just think that it'd be right. Yeah, William and mary like So we look at it like they're on the same exact level as us. They're both You know, they're not going to get they're not going to get a at large bid They have to win the conference tournament type schools and they're still not coming to our institutions Even though we can probably offer just as good or a better package It's starting it requires me to find that it's starting to turn a little bit But to katie's point and to yours it comes down to the recruiting And I I guess the question would be and tyven you got to get in on the conversation here How much of the recruiting is based on the relationship you can develop with the person who's recruiting you Versus in the nature of of athletics. It's how much do you appear on television? How good are your facilities? How live is your game day experience? So knowing that there's two areas that an athlete may focus on What are you as a recruiter? How do you how do you sell them on what you know could be deficits in their eyes? Am I answering first? Yes um So this isn't something that I actually have experience in because But you recruit students who are choosing from different campuses and there are different reasons for why They are choosing so when you when you know what those reasons are. How do you still make this sell? um, I don't focus on where it is The campus may lack if that makes sense I'm going to tell you everything that's great about the campus first and explain to you why you belong here Now is everything perfect? No, you shouldn't think that it's perfect But will you get to where you say that you want to be? highly likely so I don't try to sell um On an athletic dream because honestly I that's not my strong area. I don't do that. Um But you know, that's that's what I focus on and I'm talking to the parents too Because it's not just a student especially if you know, the parent is involved and all faster and all that And I think that's where the conversation gets a little murky for the student athlete because all of these kids have a pipe Not a pipe dream but have a dream of me of going pro And so the question is how do I get my how do you get me enough exposure where I'm getting looked at? by pro teams Even though like the college system doesn't seem to be built towards the second and third tier guy going to the leagues Like you might get a g league spot But you might be g league forever or you might get those overseas spots But you don't necessarily need to go to college to get those overseas spots as long as you can play on a professional level so I don't know to that point I just I think about how that is what uh some of these Student athletes they want they do want to go pro however they can go pro, right? But then I started to think about how much better are we than PWIs if we just we know a student wants to go pro and that they'll do whatever to go pro But they may not necessarily be the best student That that they can be they just want to go pro and want to have A chance and the only thing that we might do or that some people do um in terms of recruiting our student athletes is Sell them that dream even though they are a terrible student You're selling them a dream. They can't perform. They have not performed But you're selling them a dream. You see that's why the campus That's why I think what what president Fredericka Howard said about hiring Blake me was so poignant because He makes it very very clear that Howard is not going to recruit students who don't meet their academic needs, right? They're very very clear about that and they are unapologetic about We will we will be more comfortable losing games in some ways It's more than a game. Yeah, and that's that's a big thing. I think I think that really is my attitude So when I said I really can't relate to the question the first time because it's more than a game But that's hard to do though because let me tell you why that's hard because or is your folks are on the on the bison express That's the fundraising mechanism for Howard athletics. They respect Howard's academic profile. They get it At the same time they want to win Because when you win, that's how you get corporate sponsorships. That's how you get people in the stands That's how you get people talking about you. That's how you get media coverage So there are a lot of things that revolve around athletics. So I but there's one thing when I talk about Jared And that's that's what what's the number one issue? HBCU sports. It's not it's not the student athletes It's not the quality of product. It is sustainability. We have coaching carousels I mean I can't see I can think of maybe one or two programs in the last couple of years That have had the same coach same ad and have won Now there have been like, I mean nickleberry was at was at Howard for forever. He didn't win anything So, I mean we have programs that are extremely mediocre that have you know, that have Really really really good, you know sustaining of Of executives and of coaches, but I think the biggest issue that affects all these schools from copping to Morgan to any I mean even Sam We look at these schools We cannot keep people there. And I think the issue is that coaches come and they do well hbcu They leave immediately or coaches come they do terribly and they can't get a job anywhere else So they stay and get stuck looking at like norfolk state football. So when you When you when you talk about kind of where things are Um in the grand scheme, it's like, you know, we don't have We don't have coaches stay for a long time I mean even I know broadway has retired and he's he's comfortable in retirement But there was even some talked about when broadway retired at at ant that There was some contract disputes and it wasn't it didn't tell me it was a clean break And I think that's probably our biggest issue with recruiting even go back to katie's point is that It's very difficult to recruit if you have no faith that your coach has recruited you He's got to be there when you're you know, by the time you leave And you just see and you see howards top the top the leading scorer meaq player of the year It's transferring but it's interesting because lavel modan has been in central for it for a number of years And he's always up for a job Um, and yet he still brings in enough talent that he's competitive in the meaq where he's winning it So I would to your point. Yes. I think I would like to see and I think a lot of us would like to see Lifers we would like to see a return of like big house gains Um, you know at talmadge hill like, you know like guys that come to an hbc We're gonna be there for 20 years and you can but it doesn't be that long I mean leahole came to morgan one one one of seven meaq championship and was gone the next year I mean it literally it literally is like we don't when's the last time we had a big name hire even even look at london How long did london last london lasted two years? I mean It's I just don't think that there's a way to be sustainable if it doesn't help the coaching But I think that there's such a Such a money driver trying to get a big name that it may be better for coaches I mean for schools to find somebody to build with them Who wants to be at the program for a while and stay like a la velmo versus the carousel that we see In many ways and unfortunately, you know, we don't have the money to pay these people to get them to stay But even schools like florida state I mean like jimbo fisher was making tons of money at florida state and leads for texas a&m for even more money So it's always going to be an arms race. It's never going to be good enough But if we could have a bit more stability, I think that we'd see more results I think part of it is you if the benchmark now Is can you make the nc double a tournament and can you possibly upset somebody? That's a that's a high benchmark every year You don't see what that did for him though, bro. I mean and I think that if we return to a thing where Our benchmark of success is not did we make the nc double a's? But did we beat our arch rival? Like did you yes, you want to be competitive? Obviously you want to win the conference and all that But there was a time where if you win the ci double a if you're morgan your goal was to beat buoy Like that major season your goal is to beat coppin And if we go if we go if we go 14 and 14, yeah, okay, we didn't do so well, but we beat coppin though You know, if you're north kalana central we we got we got to be we got to be a&t We got to be winston I think for the smaller schools or the the smaller schools. I think the benchmarks would be the one your um Your conference tournament, right? I think that that should be your goal every season Because there's no way you're beating Zion Williamson. You're not and that's and that's what i'm saying like if you just focus on If you and it's not to say like we should settle for mediocrity. That's not what i'm saying But it is to say that if unless we're going to be like a gun zaga Or one of those schools where they consciously say it is time to commit to athletics and you start pouring money into it And your alumni start pouring money into it Which we know we can't afford which we're not going to do then we have to get we have to get realistic and say okay then the best thing that we could do is Really focus intensely On our arch rivals our in-state and intercity rivals and try to make that The most poppin product that we can Because right now if you don't if you look at howard versus morgan in anything. It's a popular game It ain't it ain't the talk it ain't the talk of the beltway Because because because because they don't put any they don't put any power. I mean the other they had the howard morgan game during spring break point year like I mean, it's It's ridiculous how and again I'm I try to be not to be too critical of me at leadership, but Even the howard morgan football game The coppin morgan basketball game Even with some even with ant played central I mean in basketball like they this year was over like ant spring break. I think like They have not done a good job of really capitalizing. I mean when when texas plays Oklahoma It's a game no matter how bad both no matter how bad they are and then and that's how coppin versus morgan is And that's probably how norfolk versus virginia state is And it should be how howard versus morgan is but they're not I do they're not like that I do want to ask this though or at least throw this little caveat out there Because you mentioned me at leadership, right? Isn't isn't david wilson sitting on a high high position in the hcda He just got he just got put him to a board this year Um, and he and he also and he also was the the chair of the president's committee other meaq So he's the he's the head president On the meaq as well. And so now it's incumbent upon the morgan state university president to At least inject some life into the meaq sports He trying to But see it sounds so simple, but 95% of the problem is that you have You have a very very wide Breath of schools and regions even in the meaq Even in the swac now. I think the swac is a better job And especially in football. I mean they have though. They have two classics in dallas. They have Obviously magic city in birmingham. I mean they do a really good job, but again, most of those are run by the individual schools so But one thing I do think the meaq could do better again is to create more opportunities with some of those inter Um, inter area schools, but even more so It's again to find a way To create some sustainability within the within the process because the fact of the matter is the meaq will always be The baby to the ci w a so basketball wise No one is ever going to go to norfolk for the ci w for the meaq tournament Ever it's never going to be what what charlotte is and what boltsmore will become but What the meaq can do is they can do a bit more in terms of football which we all know makes more money And um, I think you know, hopefully this hopefully I mean it'd be cool if they could do You know more classic opportunity even if they did it one year or so have a nt play central in charlotte I don't know. I don't know. I want that but that'd be nice for a year You know to have instead of morgan playing up at hughes have it at m&t There's something they could do to make some money and generate some interest in some buzz In the city it would have helped when you know the mayor was still a morgan state graduate We want to we want to give a arrest in peace So her candidacy. Oh my god and her chief of staff actually was a howard graduate but um But you know, it's it's unfortunate, you know, kind of how that played out, but I think that there's more that can be done But people have to be creative and let's let's face it like there is not a lot of interest right now With seeing hbcu sports on the grander scheme, which is why we're on esb in three basically and so I think that if they can find ways to Generate some more buzz. I mean a nt is a great example of a school that has a lot of buzz right now, but You know, we need to do more and and push for more and uh, but But I think we got a we got a good example in if you look at morhouse, for example morhouse is in the dirt for a while and now they're riding they're riding They're riding high because the last two years they got like 20 wins They've had like 20 22 game winning streaks when they part when they play clark atlanta. It's the talk of atlanta Like no matter what clark atlanta is doing like if it's morhouse ca you like that's that's on 11 alive Like that's in the ajc They're talking about it, right? So You know, I There's a model for it, you know, there it can be done. You just a few years ago. Didn't um morhouse send somebody to the san diego charges Uh probably I mean, I mean that doesn't do with that. I mean does not forget morgan Morgan and howard had a huge game This is probably two years ago three years ago where they played on espion on third on Thursday night under the lights Nobody involves more They didn't know him was there, but it didn't have actually didn't have pretty good views on tv but I just think that again you have to create an environment people will go on want to do these games I mean morgan played delaware state of the lights one year It was like maybe 2012 or 2013. No one came, of course But I mean, I think that you have to create an environment people want to go And if and if it's going to be better to have morgan play howard in dc, which obviously we know it is Then then do that then me act make up your mind and make a decision I mean, do you know how bad it looks on tv to see? You know some of these stadiums empty You have to find other ways to get people to go I mean, we all know like sami does great with getting people on the stands But a school like norfolk state has a has the biggest stadium in the me act 30 thousand seats Or you acknowledge that morgan, you know, some stadiums just are literally not physically set up right for example at morgan Our cameras our our skybox is over the home side So when you look at the camera view it always looks at the you're shooting at you're shooting at the empty away side When the home side is full So the other thing that um That the schools can do is kind of like follow the army navy model because you notice that stadium is always always play exactly It's because they force the students to go Now grand, it's a little murky when you talk about you ain't gonna make morgan copping Howard students go nowhere the moment you say you can incentivize them going you could We don't even film campers on friday. We're not going to no games like literally after class It's cleared out on thursday nights Like like i mean we have to be totally real like again every what fam you can do What a and t can do is a very different thing than what morgan can do because of this the the demographics of the school And i think is i think it's not it's not it's not smart to to look at them and to create Initiatives for them are the same way and leadership from the meag office looks like We have to create different incentives We've created from program for different campuses because the the conference is so unique It's not the same well part of it is also have a winning culture too on campus For example, you mentioned fam you and a and t they get good crowds because when you're winning The guys and the girls consider that a place to be like everybody's going to be there So let me walk in there and make sure i show face Morgan if you if you if you walk into a morgan game is like okay. Well I mean i just walked out the refagger. I ain't got nothing else to do I mean so it's not it's not it's not a place to be It's not a place to be seen so you don't you don't invest in it We're gonna give um We're actually about to wrap this up because it's I like that we had a sports talk for a solid 23 minutes tip um You uh, you didn't you didn't want it. You didn't want to participate in this conversation So you're gonna have 45 seconds to to rant about you against sports I just want to say that throughout all of this I just So many variations of maryland accents Let's wrap this up. Thank you guys. That's good night. Oh my oh my goodness I am from my area who is in exile here in texas. I need more love. She's so mad. My god She's so not she asked for me not for the sports talk Anyway, so this is this is a really great conversation because again sports is the is the thing that that will get you the most eyeballs In the most butts and seats on the campus during any given any point in an academic year So it's not something you can You know just say oh it don't matter or you know what it is Is what it's going to be like you got to keep having this dialogue Especially about who runs these programs because they do shape The revenue in the face of what a lot of people think about our institution. So Brothers I really appreciate it morgan Or is the morgan I thank you so much been a long time. You're finally out of school. Um Katie I love you dearly. Um my brother my brother despite, uh, tuning in live from your car. Um Nobody knew that though I had it on mute the entire ride back from the subway, which was delicious subway. Please sponsor this podcast um timony, um About to be thrown off the show. Uh, at least you made it through. Um, then you were Not being thrown off the show actually In essence, you threw yourself off for the last 20 minutes Because you talked about something that you know, I don't necessarily want to talk about and you know My personal feelings around sports. We gotta get over that sir recruitment and enrollment We gotta get over that sport stuff sir No, please don't qualify. Don't bring me no bad news. None of that None of it We appreciate it another uh wonderful episode of digest after dark again Thank you for all for listening hbc digest.com and on series 142 xm radio the howler university radio network We'll be back. Uh, what hopefully next week What it's today thursday or today tuesday never mind you you about to be thrown off. So we'll we'll see Next time that just after dark. Thanks for listening. Peace