 So So I'll call the meeting to order it is 7 o'clock by my wife one of the walls a little fast First thing on the agenda are the minutes of April 3rd 2018 for approval To approve the minutes of April 3rd 2018 with any amendments or changes there, too Second Terry a couple things under number five the catamount License agreement I'm in the first sentence and it appears to repeat license agreement It's talks about and we'll review revisions to the catamount license agreement relative to the conservation easements management plan and license agreement The second license agreement should be deleted. Is there two license agreements we yeah The next sentence read Kate noted that and I'm sorry I forgot my glasses tonight So of course I'm having a little bit trouble reading Kate noted the state is between grant cycles So the town should Front the money And close on the property then apply for the grant with a hope of being and I said being reimbursed And I think it was maybe should say being awarded Reimbursed But we haven't even applied for the grant yet No for the town to be reimbursed the money I get that but don't we first have to be awarded the grant No, she wants the town to front the money to put it up front I get that part and then if the grant comes in we will reimburse her Okay, okay, I guess I see that I mean my first hope is we get the grant Then I hope we get reimbursed I get that piece. I just If I get it, I guess that's fine and then on the next the first sentence in the next paragraph it says there was discussion of having to negotiate with a third party for and I think either the word permitted permitted or Allowed Activities and then the word should be activities Shoot, I just clarify Would say for I would say for town-sponsored activities or town Because it's really for it's not for activities in general It's for things that the town will come up with right any town sponsored or town Recommended activities, right? Well, there were There were two things I picked up on is one is We're talking about the license agreement and also about the management plan by if we're talking about the license agreement We have to be talking about the management plan, too And that's where the you know the phrase is permitted permitted. That's the word or allowed And then activities because there's multiple activities. I think you're thinking of the conservation easement for permitted activities Um, I thought it was the management plan where we'll also discuss what Am I wrong there? Permit And so it would be permitted through your look your regular town procedure But you're not going to be permitted through the easement the easement restricts certain things and doesn't restrict certain things But there's no permitting in place for the easement management plan will also kind of allow certain activities and disallow other activities But there's no real permitting in place the permit as I understood it is through the regular Permit, I didn't mean like a permit where you got this is allowed is more than I'm looking at Maybe that's a better word. So I think I think what you're getting at is that we had a discussion about the fact that If it's a town forest the town shouldn't have to negotiate with another party if it wants to allow certain activities And land whether it's with you know through the management plan the forest man Was the This is also activities in general for instance mountain biking in general or you know, whatever activities are being contemplated whether they'll be allowed or not, you know you know Horses or walking or skiing So it's just not the events, but it's the activities that will happen more on a day-to-day basis also That I think this was referring to Discussing But what word would you like to have in there? Debating no, we're not debating Okay, I did not mean to debate I meant to change the wording there Well, because I think it more accurately reflected are you look what word would you like to put in there? It sounds like a loud Activity to plural Sorry, I got a couple more things under number seven keeping of chickens. I'm in the third line and It mentions residential district So I'm not sure exactly what that means I mean, I know what a residential district is first question is should that say districts because we have more than one residential district in town and We're into a zone or do we only talk about one district in which chickens would be allowed Zone residential districts or I'm not sure I Thought it was just in in lots less than one acre Anywhere in town Maybe we should scratch out then residential district Is that correct you think Rick In the other Question I had is when it continues on to say in a total of six chickens I know we spent a fair amount of time on this did we decide whether it would be six chicken Six female chickens, or I guess the more accurate term six hens all the We definitely agree agreed on hens Okay, I think there's discussion Further on along with the Lynn blevens that to talked about the problem with having just six chickens Right, but I just want to make sure I'm clear on what it was the consensus was whether it was I don't think we had a consensus Okay, I I would have thought it was hens, too So I says I recommend that it's a a total of six hens or six female chickens Also on page two. Oh, sorry. Yes under the sewer allocation The first sentence Ken Bellevue review and I think the word the proposed attachment a should be The proposed should go before attachment a But the bigger questions have to do with the last sentence In the first paragraph Actually the last two sentences in the first paragraph and they they're kind of a very shortened I'm trying to think of the word Agglomeration of more complex issues Bottom line, I guess I'm recommending they be deleted because you know the first one says there is 13,000 gallons per day Capacity for 20 years. That's actually not accurate. There's about 13,000 gallons per day per year For about 20 years for 20 years But then it goes on to talk about and the trend on average is less than That amount and that's talking about a totally different thing that's talking about the amount we allocate So it just ended up I think being confusing not helpful So maybe should be deleted those last two sentences The question I have is you see last several sentences last two in the first paragraph The stars out there is 13,000 and the capacity is needed for that out, too Yes, because we that discussion was so much more of a broad discussion that only picks up little pieces of what actually I think was discussed and Terry you'll be glad to hear that's it for Phase 3 age 4 hearing no other Corrections on those in favor of approving the minutes of April 3rd 2018 say aye aye any opposed no abstentions Going on to public comment Is there anyone in the audience who is to make a any comment anything on the agenda or not on the agenda? See no hands raised we'll move on to the interviews and appointments and tonight We have just one person interviewing for the conservation commission. That's Reed Carr Bob Pascal was withdrawn his application We have the three that we interviewed two weeks ago. So Reed wants you to come up to the Table here, and if you would introduce yourself give us a brief Biographical scratch sketch of Yourself and why you'd like to be on the conservation commission. Thank you Good evening. So my name is Reed Carr Wilson resident born and raised here I was in Williston from 1988 through 2010 spent six years in Washington DC area there after starting a career and recently moved back at the end of 2016 and purchased a condo here in Williston and I'm applying for a conservation commission because I've had a long history of being interested in conservation and I'm interested in helping the town make good decisions To set up future generations to have an even better Williston to live in I Went to school at St. Lawrence University and studied environmental studies in chemistry So I have a bit of a scientific background and perspective But I've also done a lot of work on a volunteer basis through multiple action Committees or groups at the University At my current employer Freddie Mac in McLean, Virginia As well as here in Wilson today, I participate with sustainable Williston and with Transition Town Williston activities meetings events, etc It'll be my introduction Questions from the board Hey, Reed, I'm gonna have two basic questions for you. The first one has to It's kind of the question of how is the town doing and by that I mean There's the town plan that will outline Some of our conservation goals. There's the conservation commission itself Which has you know taken various actions So it's my question is is have you had the opportunity to read the town plan? and Can or attend a conservation commission with Melinda, you know the conservation or the environmental planner and Kind of your your thoughts on how are we doing? Where could we what are we doing right and what could we be doing better? Sure, so I'll try to answer all parts of that. So the first is I have read the town plan not in detail but skimmed and Paid a special attention to areas that seem to be related to the activities that the conservation commission would have either in an advisory role good land stewardship And I've also taken a look at some of the recent activities for the conservation commission the types of Topics that have been on the agenda And the types of recommendations that they've been making Since returning I've been here for about a year and a half And so I'm just getting a feel for kind of how things are going in town especially related to land conservation And I would say Wilson is actually Positioned pretty well the fact that we have so many facets of the comprehensive town plan That speak to the importance of conservation Improving all sorts of things beyond just the ecology of Wilson and the natural habitats that we have But also economic and recreational benefits Okay, good. Thank you. And then my second question Is a question for some reason it ends up falling on my shoulders I asked the other three folks that we interviewed at the last meeting I asked a lot of people to interview with us the same question. It's conflict of interest question and basically I Freddie Mac. I don't really see at least, you know that professional career. They're being much opportunity, but If there were a conflict, how would you recognize it? And what were you what would you do about it? Sure, so As far as recognizing conflict of interest, I would just keep in mind Everything that I have a stake in Whether it's through my primary job. I also work and volunteer as a soccer coach and you know, I'm active throughout the community So I would just keep in mind all the different ways that the topics that are on the agenda might might intertwine with my biases and then as far as how I would Deal with that Because the conservation commission accident advisory role. I don't feel that it it's likely to be a problem We're as important, but I would simply recuse myself from discussion on any topics that I don't feel like it could be objective about Great. Thank you. Good answer further questions If not, we thank you for coming tonight and The next item under our agenda would be hopefully to make a decision on would be the Representative thank you. Yes. Yeah question for people, right? Yeah for four. Okay So we have as we just heard read car John Nittler G Miller and Connie Clavich are Coming that sure Sure, I would like to move that we appoint Read car To the conservation Commission for the current open position, which I think is four years That I don't know There's a suggested motion here that is in our agenda For your term For your term, but it's filling a and then expired term, so we Hear a second to the motion I'll second But I'd like to have that discussion also before well, what's open for discussion sure I'll start off by saying the obvious We have four applicants all four of which I would be happy to appoint We're in a very enviable position from that standpoint But we're also in a very difficult position from that standpoint because there is only one Slot for that's currently open so we I Never like having to choose one over another I think read is is is It actually is down Between two for me read is one, but I thought Shoot John Nutter his his experience his He's been doing it for a long time And in a very direct environmental role in more and sort of an academic setting too You know each candidate has their pluses and minus, but there's a lot of pluses To John I want to put a plug in for it's I think it's gene. He's identified here as G That's actually the second or third time. He's been at least a second second time and that guy has He wants to help and I he's got a lot of experience and I really hope that we find a position where He can do just that he can help for the discussion around the motion Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye. Hi post and any assumptions so read congratulations, and We'll be in touch with you about the schedule of meetings So we move on to item number five, and that's the Champlain Water District report Jim Faye general manager of CWD and Liz Royer who's our elected representative to CWD and my next door neighbor So I'm Liz Royer and I was appointed in 2016 and elected in 2017 to a three-year term to the board I believe we missed meeting with the select board last year, but I did meet with that conservation Commission in 2017 so I've enjoyed serving on the board and I've enjoyed representing Williston We really have a wide range of backgrounds on the board. I think we really have some good discussions I'm going to be talking a little bit about the budget and Rates and then Jim is going to talk a little bit about some of the capital projects that they're working on right now So overall water sales are level And she a plane water really tries to minimize their rate increases While carrying out the 10-year master plan and trying to make a capital reserve fund contributions as well so for fiscal year 2018 2019 the uniform wholesale water rate is set at $2 16 and a half cents per 1,000 gallons So that represents an increase of 6.5 cents per 1,000 gallons Which is 3.1 percent So if you look at your historical rate increase impact on average family Hand out it's part of your packet You'll see what that translates to and that's approximately four dollars and 27 cents per year Per family using the average amount of water That's just about the same as the nine-year annual average per family, which is four dollars and 15 cents The next hand out is very good. Could you see three point one percent? If you look at the comparative retail water rate handout that you also have You'll see that the total cost for Williston residents are about right in the middle for The municipalities that are served by Champlain Water District So I think that's about where we want to be So overall Champlain Water, they're very proactive about their operations and their maintenance as well as their capital investments And that helps prevent much more expensive repairs and emergencies So currently one of the projects are working on is studying the conditions of 54 miles of their transmission mains And that's again to be proactive with some of their asset management and long-term planning Not great. No, it's Usually The CWD service systems will bill off the volume of the meter. So normally what you're using Domestically that you're paying water on that same volume for the most part is going to be paid for sewer There's some exceptions to that you can put in an irrigation meter as an example and not be billed sewer because it's used outside but Separate if you will Enterprise funds depending upon where you're getting your sewer from but the water meter is probably the tie for volume Absolutely not. No, we're just we're just water this morning At a meeting with a co-chester resident They just started a new storm water utility and he had questions for me on this new bill that he got from us So it's interesting It's it's kind of I guess fortunate that Water and wastewater and storm water at times if you have a storm water utility are billed on the same belt but it does get Confusing for the customer as it's for the most part those are separate Departments and in our case where the wholesaler to 12 municipal water systems and our if you will our wholesale Charge is in Lake in Wilson. It's a component of the water Wilson water department budget so Usually we even though we might be going up 3.1 percent When you look across the 12 systems That has an impact because we're just one item in that larger budget Somewhere between 1 to 2 percent to the retail systems because they all have a markup That you saw sunrise on our last survey, so we're We're the wholesaler to worry about my water in Williston, so Thank you for that So it's now that we've interrupted maybe I'll okay Vas is what are the key you know 3.1 percent seems reasonable I look at you know the budget we just went through But it still is always helpful for me to know what is driving that increase and so what would you? Attribute the increase largely to Like I mentioned that you know sales are level That's interesting. Well, you know, there's a couple different factors there One of which is you know a lot of places do encourage water conservation a lot of fixtures are made to use less water You know there there's a small amount of growth in the county But not not a large amount to kind of you know, it's kind of balances each other out. I guess I would say at this point So beyond that, you know we again like I said, they have to be proactive They have a lot of capital improvements. You have to stay on top of your maintenance In order to prevent those those future or more expensive costs So that you know that that money and that increase has to come from somewhere So unfortunately with the flat sales, it has to be the small rate increase So let me ask the question a little bit differently if you don't mind and it's would it be For instance, are there staff increases that are included in this or their new programs or is this reflecting? Primarily the cost of making water if you will electricity chemicals Those types of cost Primarily the cost of making water. Yes, it's not yeah, so they're not hiring, you know new positions Yeah, the only thing we've we've We've got going Is we we started a succession planning? Probably back in 2014 and What we've tried to do is there's there's four people retiring all of us about okay say an age and a fairly tight four-year window That unfortunately one person out right now on long-term disability and Very fortunately for the other person his wife won the mega bucks. So he left earlier. So We've had a lot of staff Transitioning and at times in the budget if you look specifically at labor It is very difficult to get a year-to-year comparison Because it's not the same number of people there might be some overlap for hiring or some shortages, but for the most part like Liz said it's it's kind of the inflationary increases For the cost of the water itself, okay Thank you heading on to the major capital work For all aware The construction of the tank well as to North tank was completed off Mountain View Road and Originally the town had plans for what was the 350? 350,000 gallon to begin with and it got reduced to 300,000 We we were looking to retire the tank that's on Tower Lane We've been working together on that for some of you. I think have been here Jeff I think and Terry for maybe the last five six years. We've been talking about Wanting to retire that was more or less an elevated storage tank rather than a ground storage So the to paint that particularly the exterior is pretty expensive and unfortunately the way the tank was shaped the interior had a fair amount of ice rubbing on it and Impacted the painting cycle so that particular tank had the shortest painting recoding Of any of our 19 tanks in the system So we were trying to phase that one out and our board through our tank policy has a way of Working with a town that's building new storage to sort of team up so in doing that The larger the tank that you build the the cost per gallon goes down. So we contributed 50% of the tank cost and and the town the town was able to save about 364,000 we lucked into I say lucked into because we never really were too involved in the state revolving fund loan program because there's There were so many other utilities and water departments ahead of us it's sort of a point system Where you've got to have some issues to be able to usually qualify for the money The last few years we've been fortunate that a lot of people are not shovel ready to go We were In the town and CWD worked together and little over 300,000 dollars of savings using the lower 3% interest rate We plan on having the tower lane tank down in June and It's a company we've used once before They took down a tank on water tower hill for us and they sort of start at the top and they they drop the tank Into the shell as they work their way down. This one here is a little bit different because it's on stilts But if I'll let you know Rick when that happens But it'll go down in a day or less. So you don't want to It's these guys have this down to a science so Needless to say I didn't win the the pool for how quickly It was going to come down a water tower hill I Was way off because that one was I think it was a little over somewhere between eight and nine hours I don't remember eight and a half hours Yeah, so there that's what they do they travel over the country taking Tanks down I have to tell you though I'm going to miss that that tower that tower has been well ever since I've been in Willison, right? Yeah The next major project we have a similar tank to the one that was built in North Wilson Road at our plant site Although this one's completely above ground Million gallon it's it's baffled. It's for chlorine disinfection contact The our existing tank Elton about 90 1990 91 Has has really been online Full-time since that point and it's got some maintenance issues that we've got to work on You can't take the tank offline because it's part of regulations to hold water and allow chlorine to disinfect it Before you release the water to the public. So we've we've been kind of delaying Living off this one tank for a while now. We've got two tanks Online and we're working on the second part of that project is is is kind of a buried Concrete basin wet well and our plant that's going to allow us to upgrade some pumps and get a little bit more efficient We work a lot with Our next big Facility project our next piping project that was just approved Again sort of a joint project with the city of South Burlington. They're doing a wastewater upgrade Right off Swift Street on Farrell and we decided if they're going to tear up the road that happens to be the closest of Distance between our two 24 inch diameter high service mains that serve about 90% of our service area in the county So we're going to put a cross tie in there so that if we have water breaks or whatever Willis then most any town we serve there's a lot of looping in the distribution system usually every street So when you have a break you can isolate things and not have very many customers out. Well, we're we're transmission So we've got about 54 miles of pipe In a 70 square mile area and we've been trying to loop for emergencies that if we did have an interruption Or the need for a repair that we've always got a way to loop the water around the county from from a supply point of So that's going to help us tremendously. We expect that will be done by this this fall And one of the last Plan projects these are all been bonded and taken care of and our financial model is I think they're still calling it the double diamond crossover at exit 16 that requires us to go in and Actually lower a pipe that Is sitting in a blasted ledge trench Up that way because there's going to be a lot of new stormwater pipes That are going to be cutting right into the water main so we we've got some work to do up there to To prep that area and get our 16 inch water main out of the construction below the construction impact and we We're not sure maybe 2020 that one will happen. We just got new plans from the state Updated plans from the state that we've got to go through again and make sure that our latest design which might have been our Second time through the project Is is still the design we want to use they they've been tweaking it a little bit trying to move that project forward but I Did hand out Our this year's water quality report That's what's called the consumer confidence report Requirement we do all water systems do that type of report once a year for the most part EPA has allowed us the last few years to do that via a postcard with a with a web address But we we had extra copies that came in early. We're going to try to get this out the middle of Next month rather than waiting to the end of June And I had hard copies. So I thought I'd bring it the other handout that you had mailed Some of you of course I recognize some I don't because I haven't been here in a couple years But just is a little one-pager on what? You know a little some stat stat sheet if you will on Champlain I'm municipality just like a city or town We're called a consolidated water district. So it gets us into that wholesale role of producing water for for multiple municipal water systems any questions Just quick one the work that's going to go on at X16 the lowering of that sounds like a main. Yeah, is the Champlain water district responsible for that cost even though I should say even though it's a V-trans project to yeah, the rules in this particular case, it's yes and no the usually There used to be a contribution If you move municipal infrastructure But I maybe 10 15 years ago it got modified that if you're in Like the state right away and they require you to move It's it's on the utility to pay for that If you're in your own private right away, and they're widening the highway and you own the easement first They they would contribute in this case After Kind of learning a few things a vast majority maybe 46% of the linear footage that we're putting in Happens to be in the in the federal I 89 corridor. So we are getting Somewhat reimbursed for that. So we and and that was the reason we went out Originally for a certain amount of dollars For that project theme 750,000 dollars a few years back And then the project got appealed and delayed and during that time is when we started going to the federal highway administration and and pushing for relief on it and We were successful there and we ended up repurposing Some of the money that was directed at this particular project For this Feral Street Cross-tie, it's it's a transmission main of course, but it's just in a different a different spot So we repur did a bond vote for a kind of a set of projects that I talked about here the North tank and The plant project and we repurposed third question Repurposed some of the 750 toward Feral Street. So Right now that we're completing everything that we've got bond approval for and as Liz said We we updated a master plan that was going to run out in 2022 Before dick Pratt retired our chief engineer We got a group of us together and we extended the 2002 to 2022 master plan from 2016 to 2026 so we'll probably we may be bonding again, and I don't think it's going to be March of 19 could be March of 20, but there's a there's a couple of projects that are coming up one is a redundant pump station and In another one is that minimum maintenance facility at our site because our present maintenance facility may be Converted to pre-treatment for the plant Treatment process itself But nothing planned immediately Thank you for their questions for Jim or Liz If not, thank you very much. We appreciate your being here So we'll be on to the catamount license agreement Linda and Kate one are probably So two weeks ago, we sent you back with some suggestions for a call of ideas Yes So Our charge the last time was to make a couple of changes to this agreement The yeah, the primary change is on In section 23 the termination Basically, basically the additional period of time removed in that section tightened up So we have inserted this That if the breaching party commences good faith efforts to cure the the alleged non-compliance and such non-compliance cannot be cured Within such 30-day period then upon such date as can be independently documented for completion and that I Hope I have that language, right? I was suggested by new joy and In section 12 Town reserve rights section 12 under C or rather E the final section was stricken and That has been accepted by the other party parties and a Clause was added to section Six that Says if the town wishes to make amendments to the community forest plan That impair reduce or restrict the rights of licensee And then the clause or increase the licensee's cost or liability under this agreement The town and licensee agree to meet and negotiate any such proposed revisions of an amendment to the community forest plan And to amend the terms of this agreement prior to amending the plan to ensure consistency with each other and I believe that Those were the only Well, the only other changes to the agreement Were to Satisfy VLT's Vermont Land Trusts requests and and those were fairly unsubstantive Just I think we talked about this last time I believe so maybe I don't need to repeat that discussion, but just inserting references to the conservation easement various points various sections of this agreement and At this point The other parties have agreed to this agreement as it stands today There's been some comments. I'm sure that you've seen them from around town as well as one of our board members and some of the things that were being shown here tonight and Terry would you like to make any comments? So, yeah, thank you. Thank you, Terry. So just a couple of things. I've done my own and you know as I like to do I've done some of my own Kate I've spent some time talking to the Catamount Outdoor Family Center and I spent a couple hours actually with Jim McCullough as well. So and So Let me summarize them quickly so I don't want to I don't want to write a book or a novel here, but but Some of the things I found out were that we've been negotiating this license with Catamount for Almost a year since last July or before actually before that We've been in negotiation with Catamount which I mean as a board member. I don't remember ever ever closing or having closure of Giving exclusive license to any entity not I'm not saying Catamount's the wrong one now I'm just saying that we never had that discussion Especially exclusive license. There's a lot of things in the contract. I'm not Excited about it, but I'm not saying Not having Catamount there is one of them, but so we've been negotiating this in some way for a year and then in July, I think there was a It's talking with all these parties. There was a memorandum of understanding between the town and The Catamount Outdoor Family Center, which I don't think was ever shared with the board And it's a several-page memorandum of understanding that suggests that the town is going to negotiate This license and I think the interpretation and I'll let the Catamount Outdoor Family Center people Say what their interpretation of that is but their interpretation of this is that The town is going the town is unable to take care of Catamount The town needs Catamount to continue doing what it's doing and that the town will work towards Kind of enabling Catamount to continue what it's doing. That's and I think some of the some of the You know the homeowner or residential feedback we see is along the lines of some of the comments I've made and that is When I read the agreement it looks like We're buying a town forest for Catamount to stand business And I don't think that's the way it was sold when I attended I attended all the early meetings with the town residents And all that where we got commentary and you know and and we had decided I think as a board to go forward and pursue this Right, so I was an impression. Hey, we're getting town forest. It's going to be great We're going to have a study committee which we also did and the study committee was going to come back and make recommendations Well, we've not seen any recommendations. I mean so far from the this committee And a license agreement's been a negotiation for almost a year and there's a memorandum of understanding that wasn't shared with the board So from that perspective, I feel like we haven't been very informed as a board You know from a from the standpoint of how things are working and I think it's also a little Maybe a little From Catamount's perspective. I mean, I think they feel like we We've made this commitment to do something with them and to enable them and now the residents feel like something else is going on Right, the residents don't like it because they weren't informed So as we discussed on the phone over the weekend, I did look back at kind of and created a timeline Presentations in this life order, you know starting in January of 2017 You'll see that both Talk of discussion of the partnership with Had on the board family center the discussion of a license had is all through their multiple times So I just wanted to share that with you So it was at the And I just joined the select board in April of last year, so if it was before that I wouldn't have seen it likely But that was before the discussions as well Wasn't it with the town and I know at the town it was brought up that that was a desire of the McCullis But I think at that point in time You know, we needed to study it as a board So at least in my tenure, we haven't had that discussion and I've been under the impression that we're buying This is a community forest, you know if we're spending six hundred thousand dollars and again, I'm not saying Catamount's the wrong organization What I'm suggesting is the contract maybe should be written more along the lines of we're buying a town forest We'd like catamount to continue operating its programs. They're great programs But the town should have at a minimum equal say if not more say because I mean we're putting in all the funds, right? in catamount No, I'm sorry We're putting between the catamount outdoor family family center and the town the town's putting in all the funds State and federal grants, of course are going in as well the most significant amount of private fund raise, of course And a private committee of citizens, so and again my issue is not with catamount. It's with the way the contracts written the contracts written very strongly It doesn't give us the town as much control as it feels like we should have That's what I want to say and I think so the so break let me just add one more thing on this So in talking with the various constituents, I understand why they want They want to be negotiated with if we do things that impact their their operations because their operations bring in funds that Contribute to maintaining the property and if the margins are thin and I think they set pretty thin margins They don't pay anybody a whole lot of money. I've kind of gone through this with some of the members if we want say for instance, we want to have dog walking and have the property and that impacts their business by I'm gonna get I'm not gonna I'm just gonna throw a number out there just for the purposes of an example of $10,000 Well now their ability to maintain the property goes down by $10,000 in this the way this agreement is written is The town doesn't put in anything. I mean the town puts in zero and it and it seems like that was a condition we put forward I Don't know if it was in the memorandum of understanding, but we put that condition on this Well, that's what I've heard. I'm just telling you we put the condition on it So therefore it's kind of a you know, it's a zero sum game if we Have uses of the property that take away from cannot they need to have some ability either to Get the additional funds to maintain Or not allow that activity to happen because their books won't close right at the end of the day So I think it's a fair thing to do, but it seems like we need a mechanism in the contract You know that does that maybe that you put it. I know you added a clause And I haven't looked at the implications of the clause you just put in but But direct does that make sense? I mean if we have something that takes away a certain amount of time and Fundraising capability for the non-profit shouldn't we have a way to pay for that? I Think the contract does a product provide for that the license are going to rather Maybe I'm mistaken, but I and the other thing is I'm having trouble with them. Maybe it's my memory The I don't recall any memorandum understanding there is can I just speak to that because At the very beginning Near the beginning of this project we talked about creating a memorandum of Understanding as a starting point for negotiating license agreement. We drafted something. I kind of Felt that what we drafted it and then we were Starting on the process of drafting a license agreement. So for me it was kind of a moot point and I you know I kind of dropped it and it was never signed by either party. I mean it started out as a draft just to Mainly just to float ideas, you know between the two of what kind of relationship? It's a very legalized document It's it's it's as much as I could take from a from a document perspective It seems like it was drafted by lawyers not it certainly looked like it but In talking with at least the COFL representative they looked at this as a kind of this is what we're abiding by You know, why is everybody complaining about? Catamount having control because this is what we intended to go do so that's It's interesting difference. Yeah So and I think I mean I think that the intent was there from the start and given that You know, this is something that the McCullis wanted. They wanted to Protect this property Largely because of the recreational asset that it offers and I think that they had that intent from the very start and You know, I I believe that from the very start It was It was stated in a pretty public way this partnership between the town and the Outdoor Center I don't I mean and one other point on that is I Am sure we would not have gotten ranked second in the country out of only seven federal grants if I had not been for what the recreational asset that it is now that the McCullis have built there We also would not have gotten 325,000 from Vermont House and Conservation Board their normal limit for human this municipal project is a hundred and fifty thousand And they only go over that if they consider it a statewide resource So I think there's a big difference between kind of a plain vanilla town forest That and and what is there now and that is why it's attracting federal money. It's attracting more state money. It's attracting Money from businesses and nonprofits and national Foundations, so I don't think we would have been able to purchase this or the town would have been able to purchase this property If it had not been for all the other Successful grant raising that we've been able to do that is purely around what you know the McCullis provide Including, you know, two and a half miles of wheelchair accessible trails One of the only places to go sit skiing in Chinden County including, you know, empowering mountain bike camps for eight-year-old girls I mean, that's a special thing and and people are responding to that and the citizens of Willis and I responding to that so I don't think that we could have made this happen without kind of on a door family center and I might add to that that at a Meeting of VHC be Shortly, I guess before they announced that the town had gotten the grant Who's that that had Gus seal it Gus seal it came out I had left the meeting early He came out he followed me out and he personally thanked, you know, he said I really want to thank the town for You know saving this resource, you know like for protecting this resource So I mean, I think that kind of speaks a lot, you know to Well sounds like you have process we've gone through it sounds like there are two issues that you have one is is the process Definitely the process and the other is the substance that it resulted in The licensing agreement is not up to where you would want it to be Only from a from a town rights perspective And I would say that it needs to be drafted in a way that protects the residents rights We're we're putting in all of the we're putting in the the residents money in here six hundred thousand to start and It just seems like we shouldn't For instance this I don't want to dwell on the dog issue But let's just bring it up as the dog issue and all of us have gotten emails about this from various residents This is the before the license is even signed We've gotten a lot of pushback from the Catamount Outdoor Family Center organization To not allow dogs so you can walk them elsewhere But you know I think as a resident mean me as a resident just as an individual resident Putting six hundred thousand dollars of money into it It seems like we should have some say and immediately we get pushback and not any pushback but pushback from the president of COFC who happens to be my color as well, so You know Jim gave me you know plenty of feedback as well You can go walk your dog at my pond or you know up and down the road or it was anything But at Catamount and that's just one example and that's why I said maybe we can find a better way to write this such that If there are impacts You know we work together to solve them because I don't think the residents would expect Access and things for nothing in fact they don't get it when it comes to the trails themselves, right? You're I think what's a day pass now ten dollars For skiing or biking Right first game is it ten ten dollars, or I don't know what the I don't either. Sorry, but so if it's not it's not for free there And in the event that we do something that causes some impact, and you can't raise the phones Let's make sure we have a mechanism to take care of that and people understand when they want to do things That this is what the cost is. I don't know that's just my thought and from a from a license agreement You know it's written in a way that says My interpretation I'm not an attorney so the smart guys here will have to correct me But my interpretation is we negotiate and if we don't if we if we can't come to an agreement We go to mediation so it seems like immediately have we have an issue that we haven't Come to agreement on this dog issue and again I'm speaking not with the selector but in general with residents pretty pretty tough pushback We will go to mediation and where is that going? I don't think the town should be Subjected to mediation and something like that that seems like a reasonable use for a town forest and you know if it impacts your Income let's Figure out a way to take care of it. That's just so I don't know that was probably a long answer Ted. Sorry so the management study committee has been working really hard on kind of responding to all the citizens concerns about Uses and I know you haven't seen the language yet or I mean it is it is on the town website But the it hasn't been presented to you yet, and it will be in May. I I've probably handed the plan over to Rick so this afternoon So there will be a discussion about all those issues with you and the especially some of the topics that have been grappling And they'll be presenting some suggested solutions to you for your review and approval. So that I think is a very I mean we don't want to get into the dog issue during the license I mean that's kind of a separate kind of probably multiple select board meetings That that all of those issues will be discussed with the management. I would expect we get more public input too You'll make recommendations I'll become public and then we'll get because this is a very small group of people from and if I recall interviewing them all a Great number were residents on that road. I Mean a very large number were close neighbors or people along That road and maybe more than half But anyway, I would think the whole town should chime in because a lot of cases, you know We have maybe 20 people in the audience. There's 9,000 residents good to get Good feedback. So the other thing I'm just confused. I'm still confused about the process because why wouldn't we see The results of this committee before signing an agreement. I don't understand the board to Approve this tonight or sign anything. This is just a preliminary approval of a document So we can keep the process moving because there's many documents that we're gonna have to go through for example at the I'm sorry, but we were told just a couple of weeks ago that we were already late on this, which you know So we changed that I you know, I actually I've been getting a lot more constituent contacts than I usually get on this and I've been talked People stop me on the bike path and talk to me about this which kind of freaks me out that they recognize me Your pictures on your pictures on the website Select board heads out there who are gonna quit their jobs and follow the select board around on their concerts or tour or something That's a grateful dead but the but anyway, I'm actually really surprised at the amount of Contact I'm getting from people saying Two things and one the the dog thing actually is I'm hearing a lot about that But I'm not I'm not interpreting that to mean that it's just about the dogs because I'm getting a follow-up with people saying the same thing that Teresa has been saying that if we have If we're if the town is actually going to be owning this then why You know, it doesn't seem like the town is actually exercising any ownership power When after the contract is signed and it goes through and I'm hearing that from people that I'm kind of surprised to hear that from and I think that the dog issue the pushback that came from that was was perhaps Could have been handled a little differently But in any event I I'm getting the same kind of feedback and And so that made me look at the license agreement again, and I do you know, I'm very much want this project But you know, I was looking at this and you know, it does It's been there the whole time but the you know the first thing that the town here by grants licensee an exclusive right in license to use the property so That's but then the only thing that I see that has been added and it's a it's a big thing I don't want to say only like it's small on but in 12d That the town and licensee shall permit public pedestrian access Which is to find meeting walking hiking running Except when conditions exist, etc I'm assuming that means that that would not be charged for that Is it But my my point is that I'm getting a lot of I'm getting a lot of comments back saying What if we're spending this much money this much of the town's taxpayers money? What are the taxpayers getting for rights out of this other than to allow catamount to continue on? Which is a nice altruistic thing from their perspective, but nothing that impacts them I've even had people say, you know, I don't care if they develop it. I'm fine with it, and I Don't share that view, but I'm hearing a lot of stuff like that And I wanted to bring that to people's attention That it's out there I'm also, you know, again, I'm worried with the Document that's that's coming about the conversations that people have had and the issues that people are trying to work through One of the concerns that I have is that if if it's resolved that okay. Well, we're gonna mediate it I've had lots of unsuccessful mediation Usually that's not the case usually mediation works But it doesn't have to and I I always I always come back to the historical example of the right after World War two and the great powers met and every time the The leaders of the Soviet Union England France and the United States Had an agreement that had something they couldn't have come to an agreement So well, we'll leave it at the secretaries and the foreign ministers. Well, what did that do? You know, I just they those guys took their marching orders from from the head person and it didn't do anything So if if there is not an ultimate tiebreaker in this document somewhere if there's not actual and this is a terrible word to use when we're all talking about, you know, conservation and public use and Collaboration, but if there is not ultimate power somewhere in this document for the town and I don't mean dictatorial power, but I mean where Something would be resolved past mediation or someone would get to make the decision one way or the other then It's it's a you know, it is a potential recipe for disaster because not all of us are going to be alive and working on these projects 50 years from now I 53 so at 103 It's very unlikely that I'm going to be part of it But I mean that's got to have and actually this license doesn't go that far anyway But I mean my point is that it's we've got to have Resolution and that's and I'm hearing I don't know if that would assuage the comments that I'm getting from people I Think it might But even if it doesn't it might be enough anyway If I could just speak to Your comments about how people feel like there's not going to be anything for them The committee Has been discussing integrations of the integration of multiple uses including dogs and horses and disc golf and lots of other things habitat protection, etc. And They're just they're being very thoughtful in their discussions and at this time They have not found A way or have not devised a specific Plan to integrate horses and dogs that doesn't mean that that can never Happen, but it means that yeah on day one You know when the town owns the property people can't go out and do whatever it is they want to do I mean, I think that it may take a long time to figure out how to integrate these uses and I think it would be I mean, I think it'd be irresponsible for Every use, you know for the property to be opened up to all uses on day one without thoughtful consideration of how those uses are going to be all be integrated and So it doesn't mean that That the town is excluding these uses it means that right now They're just there needs to be more time to figure out how it's all going to work I'm also getting a lot way more than I would have expected on this And I think at the end of the day, and I don't want to put words in your mouth But I think we're getting at the same thing is that the end result should be that the town Not the McCulloch's have the right to say what's going on Am I getting that kind of where you guys are coming from? I think you know from just to be responsible to the taxpayers I think that's and that's not getting into I don't want to get into the dog thing either And actually even as a dog owner that is not what I don't want to see going on up there But that has nothing to do with this It's just at the end of the day when the dispute can't be resolved the final thing should belong to the town So just one point to that that the town does have the ultimate authority for ownership and management decisions on the property But according to this licensing agreement the way I'm reading it the colleagues are the ones that are going in the game Well, the McCulloch's have nothing to do with Katamon Adore family center But let me let me can I address that because I mean I I deal with this a lot and I Hope not to be stupid or Condescending maybe but I property is I always Give this lecture to people in my office and they probably roll their eyes just like everybody hears about you But I take pens out of pen holder and I said property is a bundle of rights. That's what property is That's why a a novel is property. It's intellectual property and real estate Dirt is also property. Well, they're very different things. So how come they're both property? Because it property defines your relationship to something it doesn't define the thing itself That's what property is is your ability to control things when you have a license agreement What's happening is the town is going to get title Boom and then the town says great, but I'm going to hand these Specific property rights back to you as my licensee and then I don't have authority over them just like a landlord doesn't have authority over a Apartment anymore because it's it's not really theirs They've given that property right to the person who has now a right to live in it as long as they pay the rent And so the this license agreement so far does give a significant amount of power away And and I'm going to probably differ a little bit with other people on the select word I don't know that that's such a terrible thing in if it's if it's done In a measured way and if there's a way to deal with resolve conflicts and and make sure everybody feels like they have a seat at the table because somebody's got to run it and You know they the cat amount has been running it so heck that might be a great idea if they keep doing that And they're going to need authority to do that So I don't really have a problem with the fact that somebody's going to have to manage it and somebody's going to And a license agreement is as fine as anything else But it doesn't you know the fact that the town has title to the property doesn't mean that the town has a property rights Over whatever it gave away in a license agreement. So I I am you know again. I'm but I don't Again, I'm not in any way advocating some sort of dictatorial power that the town would have But I I do think that this is you know, maybe this could be modified now one other thing real quick. I was I was on the select board when the roundabout at May at the steeple church was Add to bring up the roundabout. Yeah, that was some good times The I was I was genuinely shocked that the I Was hearing that the town was going to take a portion of the of the church's Steps that it was going to take the the gas pumps from the corner store And that school buses wouldn't get past this the and and emergency vehicles fire trucks would not be able to get past the roundabout So we were cutting off that part and people believed that Immediately and and I was thinking yeah, cuz you know, I don't want to sound arrogant. I'm big huge select board member We have two meetings a month and there's a lot of power that comes with that but but that being said I'm not at least not that stupid that that we would do something like that You know, let's just cut that part of the town off. They don't need that Well, how many ambulance calls we even get over there anyway but my point is that that the perception was reality and And this stuff can spread very quickly and I don't know that that's what's happening here I just call it out as something that is that everybody should be aware that you know There is a public education component to all of this And if there's information that's going out there that's not accurate Efforts need to be made So is the two lawyers on this like board? I don't know if there's more than two But do you want to suggest some language to section 24 that would make you feel better? Not tonight. That's right You don't mind I've got three questions. Hopefully quick. I apologize if we talked about them in previous meetings or maybe even tonight Similar to everybody else I Was you know Information I've been receiving caused me to go back and look at this and my first question They're all about the relationship between this license agreement. What I believe is is termed the Catamount Forest Plan and the conservation easement so my first question is is In the in the license agreement under number four It's the first time I believe it's mentioned the catamount forest plan Is that the plan that this group of Folks are working on right now. Yes, sometimes what I call the management plan. It's the catamount forest plan Okay, my next question is is I'm on one of the where-as is The license agreement is the one that reads whereas at the time the property was sold I when this is actually executed to the town It was the mutual understanding of the McCullis and the town that Licensee would continue to operate the recreational center consistent with past practices and Would maintain the property and trail network in a manner consistent with past practices I guess I'm going to ask what does that mean and what I mean by that is Does that mean that it this the license agreement has some sort of can Trump maybe that's you know I'm not a lawyer or so I'm going to use words like can Trump the catamount forest plan or the conservation easements so those two documents are more in a sense Again, my lack of understanding legal issues are more important than in a sense this legal document because they have more power Overusing the power term over what can happen on the land more than this document can is that accurate? There is some Feedback between the management plan and the license agreement because if you know, there's so the management plan is Every ten years and can be changed or renewed in a shorter amount of time But that and the license agreement is an exhibit to the management plan and management plan is also an exhibit to the license agreement But you know, there is some language in here that you know when the management plan has changed And if it affects come outdoors operations that you'll collaborate with come on our door family center on those changes so there is some Instruction to collaborate on that but ultimately the license has to follow the management plan and the license has to follow the easement Okay, great. Thank you. So we've heard about the dog issue. There's the horse issue I personally am in favor of having an annual willison mud bog happen at catamount. So if any of those activities were to be Be added to or activities subtracted from the current practices That would happen through the catamount forest plan and the negotiations that would happen over that and those negotiations can't happen until This guy is executed Is that correct? I mean, I realize there'll be a plan that's developed, but any changes to that plan won't happen until this is Well, we need we need a license. We need the management plan Signed at closing or at least an interim management plan has to be approved by the select board and the easement holders prior to closing Okay, I have closing. Yes. Okay prior to closing. Okay All right, so that has to happen and then this will be signed after Well at closing. Yeah closing. Okay. Okay. All right. That's helpful Okay, thank you So it sounds like we need to revisit Item number 24 Yeah, and that's that's fine, I'll be honest with you I am not going to have substantial input on item number 24. I know there's others Who will have maybe some comments? So I just want to say at this point I'm Good with you know, I'm whatever you're looking for tonight support with moving ahead with this I think it's more than item 24. I think the agreement needs to it needs to be reviewed and and Possibly rewritten in several areas about Exclusive licensee, you know exclusive rights to the property No, no, no, I'm not suggesting That wasn't I was getting it I mean there might be specific provisions in here that you might be able to point to so that they've got at least to some of a direction but I've made a mark up and I sent it to Terry It's from my own business dealings. It's not legal markup. It's more along the T's and C's I don't know if Terry you distributed that to other members I actually received it and there are some items that I think we do need to address. Okay I've already brought it up but with Melinda. So Okay, I don't there's also number items where there may be just a simple misunderstanding could be yeah, but My ultimately there's probably going to be some provisions not everyone's totally happy with I thought I'm envisioning us going back and taking a couple of the most important ones Including the one dispute resolution and there's one or two that Theresa mentioned that I I'd like to try to address But that's that's how I envision this moving forward That makes sense to you guys Specifically did not forward that on because I thought that would violate the open meeting So I wasn't quite sure how to that's why I talked to you. I wasn't quite sure how to do that. So Anyway, I appreciate receiving it and I So we'll be back talking about the license agreement sometime in the near future and the Management plan as well the catamount forest plan Whatever the name of it is. Yes. I mean, it's an important thing, right? We spent quite a bit of time talking about the went to a town vote on the $30,000 we're spending with the Winooski Palli Which is 30 this is 30 years of that 20 I'm sorry 20 years So I just wonder if my contribution at this point will be all that helpful That may my night So I think we move on then Thank you very much Oh I didn't mean it that way. Oh my goodness. Yeah, Patrice would like to say something Can we get public input as well? Have overlays and various measures to protect The forested wildlife and other areas in town should any development occur and it also has a conservation commission Prioritizes and Identifies those areas be wants to protect and reviews any projects that come in so I don't think that there's any threat of This land not being protected Whether it gets partially developed or not this area will be conserved I Wanted to just say a couple of things In case anybody gets the wrong idea because I've been here longer than anybody and have been a part of The catamount since its beginnings There's a trail on my property That is an old logging road that I use for my horse trails now That is called the race trail and it got that name because we used to have The catamount used to have cross-country ski races on our property. We allowed our property to be used As part of his operations at the time. This was early 80s and Then later years when the haunted forest was occurring Several years in a row I contributed hay bales to the setup and Loaded and unloaded personally and donated them and lastly About 15 years ago when there were some complaints about Crossings with this no mobile trail We happily took on the the snowmobile association and reroute Excuse me rerouted The trails on our property entirely so as to So that the cross-country skiers and the catamount would not have to worry about Interference with his users. I only say that to Let people know that I have been a supporter of the catamount not just in word but indeed and and that For the life of me. I don't I can't figure out Why it hasn't been successful? to the point where he has hasn't been able to Make a go of it so to speak Because it seems to me as though it's been very popular and It bothers me that we are as a town Putting up a lot of money Not all of it and I understand they're working very hard to get money from other sources but We're being asked to basically Subsidize the continued use as is based on what was written there With no changes and That those were the choices given to the town to the voters that We either buy this property or else it's going to get developed and I don't think that that portion the forest Portion is would ever be developed because it couldn't be under the current zoning So Given the numbers, I just Don't understand. I would like to know where the price comes from nobody has yet answered my question about the purchase price Where is the appraisal has anybody here seen it and what is the basis for the amount that we're paying and Is anyone prepared to answer that question and also the question of stewardship? What exactly on the ground are we getting does it take to steward this land? What is it exactly that is supposed to be done to? Maintain this as a community forest Is there anyone that can answer those questions and I'm talking actual on the ground activity that is required to Maintain that as a forest or what what a stewardship mean and what is it, you know involved in practice? I have not seen or Read anything anywhere that describes that and lastly the conflicts of interest there these What we're getting off being offered here this package that was brought to the town This seems to be presented as take it or leave it as it's being presented and There's no consideration for How land has been protected in the past and in and in the recent past Use it going with the town bylaws as they are and why As a select board I feel it's important and it's part of your fiduciary duty To use our tax dollars wisely When this property can be protected without having to go through this process and still maintain programming since the uses That are currently underway Have been decided that they want to be continued and if that's the case Then what is it the town gains? The people in town specifically that's why I'm that's why I'm asking What exactly are we getting that we don't already have now? so Whether in writing or if somebody can address these questions now I I really would like to know and is is that going to happen? When you're a letter you asked the two questions that you just raised a short while ago and staff will get back to you Get the answers to those two questions The process that we've been going through when I think the select board believes that we're getting a town for us, which we don't have right now and a way to keep Things happening in Williston that are currently happening, but You may or not agree with that If I understand Your question it has to do with the 75 percent. It's in the part of town where it's owned Has to remain open space But if for instance the McCullis were to sell it to a developer I'm just hypothetically talking Would there be a chance that the land would remain open or would it be a Be owned by Whoever owns it now and it would be the excuse of use of the homeowners association or something along those lines I guess I'm just I want to make sure I understand if if the McCullis went a different route and You know as opposed to selling the land to the town What guarantees would we have that public access as it currently exists or could it increase? What guarantees would we have that that would happen and I'm not asking that necessarily view patrice I'm just sort of asking that based on you know the question you you asked Maybe we should ask if Terry we could add that to the list of things that we get back because that's part of zoning Right that should be part of You mean this whole 25 75% When a developer has for it 400 acres round numbers Say 300 of those have to be conserved in some way in this particular district Are the 300 acres that are conserved are they part of the developer who purchased it the 400 So they have exclusive rights to the property unless they give a license So if a developer bought the 400 acres, I think patrice what they're saying is that the develop whoever bought the property would have that Right to exclude others exclude others or make it. I think many of us True that is accurate. Yeah, not the same right if the town owns it It would depend on the proper licensing language We're working working on that one though, we're working on that one Yes, just to identify yourself please We're long about the resident and vice president of the catamount outdoor family center I won't take a lot of your time I guess what I would Put the thought out there for the moment To me I would ask us all to slow down Think about where we want this thing to go What is the vision? What are the facts behind it, right? I think there's a lot of information out there and beliefs and a lot of feedback or hearing come from I would say Uninformed viewpoints right in some sense I would love to throw a yellow flag at this point because I think we have been operating in good faith They're well over here to follow the spirit of what the funding was and what we told this What was the spirit of this partnership going forwards what I think is happening in this? I feel like the outdoor center, which is a distinct entity from the McCullis is being made out to be the billet When indeed what we're really looking for is a partnership with the town and I think Ted you said it best People's perception is their reality and unless we alter that perception we will have this problem forever, right? This will not resolve itself no matter what committees we have or whatever So I would ask us to really step back Think about what are we trying to accomplish here a line on that goal and start moving that direction because I don't think We're headed that way. That's my fear what we're trying to accomplish seems to be what was presented to us as what Jim Acon wants and What everybody else might their idea of what we're trying to accomplish is totally right there's there's It's not the same picture for everybody so I think there's more of a Why discussion that needs to happen to figure out what it is that people imagine that we're we're getting here and Not just what we're told we're gonna get so anyway I would appreciate to know where the numbers come from and where they're going in The so-called stewardship of this property and what it what it actually means on the ground because I Haven't seen that anywhere What actually gets done and what has been done and what is supposed to get done in the future Besides what was listed in my sense agreement, which That information so yes So thank you. I think we'll move on into the stormwater loan policy amendment and I believe James Scherard is going to talk about that Okay, we have some people from metal ridge here tonight. Yes, I Can I'll cue this up it was I have in your packet a letter from the metal ridge community association They're they're gearing up for the first phase of their stormwater improvement project and as part of our Velment requirements to get the administrative permit. They need to have a Yes, thank you Part part of it is getting the development agreement in place and Requires a financial security piece So part of that is 10% of the project cost This is going to be funded through a town loan We found the request the association made was to ask the board to waive that provision in the ordinance What they'd be faced with is coming up with that 10% so approximately $40,000 before they can get there the administrative permit from the town. We checked with the town attorney And the bylaws do not give the board the authority to waive that financial security requirement so as staff we took a look at this and Apostle pathway forward is to amend the stormwater loan policy. We have some red line language before you tonight So what we would do with that proposed amendment would allow the town to Move from the stormwater fund that security amount of the 10% into the town's escrow account that money would That would meet the requirement to receive the Development agreement to get the administrative permit to be in construction. Just like what would approve that? Movement of funds along the same time that the loan was approved that money would move into the escrow account It would sit there if the projects needed that money it's sitting there It's kind of a safety cushion if more funds are needed to complete the work if we get towards the end of construction They find they need $5,000 more at that point the town can move that money from the escrow The association can pay the $5,000 at that time that great tactic those funds or Gola into their existing loan agreement Are the same terms and conditions? So this is a way by changing town policy Mechanically to allow this to take place without putting a burden on the association to get those those funds right now I checked with staff and you know, we have a number of projects out there And this is the largest project. I believe in James correct me if I'm wrong with any of this here So it's unlikely we'd see another request of of this magnitude in funds to move We generally have the finances to there's enough cash flow. Essentially what would happen here is this money Start construction and say May or June with the money in escrow It sits there until constructions finished money moves back to S from escrow back on a store modern funds If any other famous need to be taken out of that say $5,000 it would be Rolled into their loan and then that would be paid back over time as well Open up the questions because there's a lot of pieces here So I guess I'm confused because we've approved a hundred percent loan policy, right? Basically, so what's them the mechanics of we the money's not available? at the time this with me as part of our development bylaws for Any type of development of financial security is required so this would be 10% of the project costs essentially it's If someone were not to be able to complete the project there's some funds sitting there that could be used to complete the projects So this is to meet that development bylaw that a 10% has to be has to put in an addition My understanding is this is for brand new projects only in other words It would not apply and I you can correct me if I'm wrong It would not apply to existing projects where you're doing renovation work to the But if we've approved a hundred percent loans is it because the loan money isn't available up front or This technically won't be alone It's money that's set aside temporarily Once the and let's say everything goes fine and the money isn't needed then it goes right back into the storm water front It's not part of the line If for some reason you needed that to finish something they'll use that to finish it up and it's all part of your loan And this is the same thing here It's the same concept. They want to make sure that the entire project gets done and And you don't know what you get into when you build these same with building your house You may have a gas line that has to be moved that you didn't contemplate that you didn't know Same thing with us there could be something that comes up and they want to flush fund in there So that they can are able to deal with it So, yes, it's a hundred percent finance, but there's always a portion of it that's held back Instead of a finance portion being held back. It has to be cash It's part of it. It's because of the way our statute and stuff are written. You have to have that Bond escrow up front make that. Sorry make other sense Two questions The first and I like this idea. I think it's good the first is the Stormwater escrow revenue fund would that be a new fund that's created specifically for this purpose? I believe we move right into our escrow account. We have our guest so we have we have an escrow account We're all these type monies go into okay, okay, and then my other question is is it's it's related But it's not about using This fund to pay the development review fee that you need to not fee, but escrow that you need to pay If a if a stormwater project were to have cost overrun go over budget Would our loan program? I assume it would but I just want to hear confirmation would pay for those cost overruns They could increase their loan amount to exactly the question. I wanted to know Cover those cost overruns because you know and that doesn't would not affect I'm going to tack on to that it would not affect I know this is the largest one so but it doesn't affect the overall funding scheme mechanism We already have in place for everybody Okay, yeah, I like that answer Because then I'm sure Bruce says is well aware of the potential for these project or you I'm sorry As are you as are we to have cost overruns? Okay? Our hope is that there won't be because there is I sure hope so built into each Estimate but you never know I just want to go back one more time because this one is a I knew whole new thing That's why it's required. Let mostly other places don't have that Thank you And you'll see in the request letter had an eight hundred thousand dollar number I checked with planning and we can split that project in the two development agreements I only they're building two ponds this year and another pond and Down the road here. So by splitting it. You don't have to move 80,000 over We just need the bid just worth you today. I think so we'll know what the final Oh Please identify yourself for the for the game Appreciate that the Question is Because we kind of arrived or the chicken and the egg kind of question If We're not able to apply for the loan until we know our construction costs are we're going to be the beds are going to be opened Tomorrow so we're going to know we don't we don't have to our loan papers everything in place just yet But my understanding is that we don't get a permit Until the escrow by the condition of the permit is having escrow in the account So we can't get a loan You know, I just want to be able to get construction going as soon as possible so Is it possible to how are we going to work that mechanism that we can satisfy the escrow requirement or obtain the permit So we can get construction going Or can we Did I miss something in that though? I thought you said you had estimates So you had a you had a rough sense of what it was you were going to need to do this Did I did I miss I thought that there were estimates already out there So you have a rough sense of what this is going to be We will know tomorrow. Okay, we open So and then if I understand this correctly from you folks We approve of this wording tonight then based on The conservative estimate you can set aside what's needed and you should be able to move forward It said that we haven't actually Physically applied for the loan yet. We have documents or our attorney is having reviewed right now With the town's attorney for this for this long document I think what I was getting was that though if they had a valid estimate that they could use This is the one that we would like to go with Then the town can then set aside what it needs to In anticipation of you completing the rest of what you need to do to move forward I'm sure we can work that out. That's just Probably all happen one night Allen will get all the financing in place And that will give you the ability for the zoning minister to sign off on the administrative permit to give the go ahead to the contractor Paper shuffling at its best Further questions for Eric. I'm sorry just a procedural question I see there's a motion in here and I just want to check This is not something where we have to have any sort of a public hearing it because it's a policy we can It's at our whim to modify it whenever we please I mean if the board feels uncomfortable we can certainly wait because this issue will be coming back fairly soon This is provided that meta-reach can you know if it's come in okay, and they can all get all the other paperwork in place It's just for them. It'd be nice to have Some certainty that no I get that and um because normally I would like to invoke the two week rule But um, I think tonight could be if you will an exception. I mean I've read through this I think I understand it pretty clear. I'm definitely in favor of it. So I don't know if there would be any Comments I would receive that would sway me Otherwise Chair entertain a motion. I would indeed I'd move to amend the stormwater loan program policy is presented Discussion of the motion Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All right. Any opposed Congratulations Now you get a big loan All right So I'll ask then we'll move on to the stormwater program update and this time james sure I will Talk to us I haven't been here for a while Thanks for having us See you all um We've prepared a stormwater update for the select board. Um, it touches upon a number of more important Aspects that we're dealing with in the stormwater program and um, I'm going to run through them Normally, I like to summarize, but this has a lot of detail in it. So I'm going to follow up pretty closely and then I'm happy to take the questions afterwards brief update on grants went back as far as 2015 and since then the stormwater program has obtained around $1,000,000 in grants which has a facilitated or is in the process of facilitating $1.6 million with the projects. Um You can also see this in more detail on table one, which is on um page three A significant portion of these grants about 610,000 Are directly applicable to the allenbrook floor restoration plan. You were just discussing Meadow ridge meadow ridge is a recipient of one of those grants that's listed in here So again, that 610,000 grant award is helping to facilitate about $1.2 million of project costs. So That's what we're bringing into the town to help move forward The allenbrook floor restoration plan. It's a good segue into the next section here The allenbrook floor restoration plan includes more than just residential projects It includes schools and commercial projects as well However, the town is most involved as you are well aware In the residential projects because we will in fact be taking them over once they're completed So this allenbrook update doesn't include what's going on with those The commercial and schools although i'm happy to touch upon that if you'd like specifically with the residential projects A little bit confusing, but there are 18 neighborhoods and 17 permits That's because the meadow run slash forest run neighborhoods are all under one storm water permit So these numbers i'm about to list off are actually with regards to storm water permits Sure So You initially said 610,000 of grants, which is great Congratulations. Great for the town Is that commercial plus residential that number? No, we have a policy That only allows us to apply for grants for the residential portion of the allenbrook floor restoration plan So yeah, all of those grant funds for the allenbrook floor restoration plan are for residential Would the grant program even allow a commercial entity to apply for I'm not sure if I have a definitive answer for you. My knee jerk is no It needs to be a municipal project And the reason that we're kind of making this work is because while they are private They're in good faith transitioning to municipal. So but I can't speak definitively on that So of the residential projects for the allenbrook floor restoration plan One neighborhood has completed all of its construction and town staff has submitted for incorporation documents to the state That means we've said pay state they met everything they needed to Can we incorporate them into our overall permit? Four neighborhoods have achieved substantial completion. We're basically just working on the final paperwork To allow us to ask the state to incorporate those neighborhoods Seven neighborhoods are slated for some either complete or partial construction over the 2018 2019 calendar years I say partial because metal ridge is approaching this in the two phases As we're kind of calling it phase one of these two ponds and phase two is the second so Um And then five neighborhoods have not yet, you know move forward with Any sort of grant funding to the town's knowledge or begun the bid slash construction process of their own accord Which they're perfectly willing to do I will amend that Of those five willis in commons is one of those While they still have technically not received a grant The town staff has submitted another grant today for the willis in commons neighborhood Hoping that we can get 50 match for that project as well. We won't find out for a number of months, but uh, the paperwork's been submitted James, I'm sorry. Can I interrupt for sure? Please explain and I get a bit confused with how the grant process Works and what I mean by that is an application is submitted But it sounds like it's submitted with a specific project It's submitted for a specific project Once the town receives the grant and that money comes into the town Is how is that money allocated and what I mean by that is is that money allocated only to that specific project? Or does it go into a fund where? It can be allocated to multiple projects if you does that make sense Yep, uh, we do have a policy addressing this and I thought we did yep And what it does is the select board has agreed on percentages that each neighborhood is Eligible to receive and that was based on Yes, okay. Yeah construction cost and and other factors. So we Go ahead and actually have I'll just use willis in commons as a potential theoretical example Let's say they get a grant for a hundred thousand dollars To cover their their hundred thousand dollar project even though there's fifty thousand dollars of free money from the state That fifty thousand dollar grant we still require willis in commons to pay the full hundred thousand up front So in the short term that individual that individual neighborhood sees no benefit from the grant whatsoever In the long term as each of these residential properties begins to hand their systems over to the town They're awarded their percent. So I happen to know Uh, metal ridge is about 27 percent. So of all the grants we received and right now, it's about 1.2 million Um for the alhambra florist ration plan Metta ridge will see we'll we'll receive 27 percent of that As long as it doesn't exceed the construction costs. So isn't it 27 percent of half of that? Of the 610,000 great. Yep. These can get a little confusing when we're talking about A hundred thousand dollar project being awarded and getting fifty thousand dollar grant. Absolutely So the the 27 percent are of the the free money we get from the state And that was really important because we need to have an equitable way to do this We can't just get a grant for willis in commons and say well, you guys are a little better off, but a turtle crossing isn't So that was how we chose to move forward. Great. Thank you Touching upon the last portion. I'll discuss with the florist ration plan here in the memorandum is The town of wilson was originally responsible for two projects of their own Uh, we'll call the town hall fields and may han farm Town staff state staff from various agencies and the engineering firm representing us Took multiple site walks up to may han farm and as it turns out it is not a suitable location for stormwater controls So that is Basically off the table for a potential site It doesn't mean the town's off the hook for meeting our florist ration plan, but that site's no longer in a consideration The town hall fields, which is right behind us the solar fields There is a proposed design that we are in the very final stages It'll be done by this june to receive 100 design plan for that project Now during the design process we did come up Against a number of wetland Restrictions that made the project difficult to implement at best We received word from the wetlands program that perhaps at a future time as we continue to move through The alberg floor restoration plan it could be permittable, but at that at this current time they weren't too happy about That wetland impacts So while we will have 100 plans for the town hall fields and it is a potential That we are in a little bit of limbo with if that will end up being implemented I will say there currently is a draft journal permit for from the wetlands department out for comment That expands what stormwater projects It can be put into wetlands and wetland buffers So that may actually open up an avenue for us to implement this project. It may not but there's a lot of Balls we're juggling right now in the stormwater world And I go ahead and move on to a brief chat about loans unless there are any questions How is allenbrook doing? Is it getting better? Yeah, so a great question I'll just be nerdy for a second the tmdl is flow based So basically we're building on these ponds that are acting as bathtubs where we can capture the water or let them Slow it down and let that flow exit out over a certain period of time But ultimately we are in compliance with our tmdl if the aquatic biota comes back up to health aquatic biota Let's just call them fishies because that's what they are. There are other things, but we'll use that for today We have been told we are holding more or less steady With the potential for very gradual improvements in allenbrook So many of the state staff have experience expressed Optimism that we are on track to meeting our tmdl with that said we're only on track if we Meet and implement these controls that we're proposing to So again, we're in an optimistic place, but still have work to do James You may want to touch briefly on the matter run Situation I'd love to it's it's two sections down. I can I can touch on that now if you'd like Okay So certainly so just a brief talk about the the loans that we have Provided as of today. There's only one storm water loan out And being utilized and that's for the south bridge neighborhood for 115 thousand dollars Um, I believe they've already submitted the first payment So we're doing well Call it revenue I don't think so and We have had a number of neighborhoods express interest in loans And such as metta ridge are actively in the process of our legal counsel and their counsel pulling together this documentation With all that said between now and perhaps november of 2019 We may need to loan out another 870 thousand And we've crunched the numbers or rather jennifer's crunched the numbers and we are on track to be able to handle the likely influx of loans Um, if I were to guess that would probably be on the higher side But it's a potential that we could have to loan out about that amount um Moving on to meadow run and again just as a brief refresher metta run and forest run share a a storm water permit Uh, but they're two separate neighborhoods. They have two separate hoas Industrial avenue mountain view Yep, very close Yep, you got it um alanbrook actually borders This property and that ended up being an issue for what we're calling the metta run whitewater circle pond So there was a brand new pond proposed to address the storm water runoff in the area and while preliminary Reaching out in a preliminary fashion to act 250 wetlands and various other state agencies This wasn't flagged during the earlier stages When because there's an old act 250 permit there we had that had to be dug up and looked at and it triggered a flood flood plane review And the state came back to us and said they don't think they can permit the pond because If alanbrook chose to migrate towards the pond They were they would worry that the the existence of that infrastructure would have us Armor the bank of alanbrook and not allow its natural migration so Bruce horror the dr. Paul works and myself had a lot of back and forth with the state even going up to condition commissioner bowdecker of dc um Proposing a number of ideas the most extreme being that if Alanbrook did choose to migrate next year or 20 years from now or 40 years from now We would at the dime of the town remove the pond and not You know reinforce The brook above and beyond whatever the hoa had to do to protect their condos The state did not go for it. So currently that pond is not Um Permittable and we even informed the town the hoa that we're not going to require they do that We still believe they've met the requirements of their efa. I know I'm throwing a lot of lingo out there But it's engineering feasibility analysis. It's whichever it's what every neighborhood went through to make sure they're doing the maximum extent practical We're telling me to run they did do the maximum extent practical if they got this design They paid for it. We did every step of the way until we just had to turn around so Um With that said that's another project that uh will not be implemented doesn't mean we're not going to meet our tmdl But uh could eventually in the future mean that the town of wilson needs to do a little bit more But that's where we stand on that particular system Lastly and I think we're calling it table two on the memorandum and jennifer really did help pull this together She pulled it together. Um, it it walks through the different categories that the storm water funds Is likely to see as far as a cash flow over the next few years a quick question so sure on that Meta run since you can't implement the storm water pond And there's a certain share of tmdl right that they were going to fix or repair or Help meet that goal Um So You don't know whether Eventually we'll have to make that up with some or we will it's it's unclear It's unclear. So we have till 2026 to meet this requirement It is completely possible that the controls we will build and that the residents will build That the you know commercial Estallagements will build could address the tmdl and it's possible in 2024 the state comes and says The aquatic biota is great. You've met your requirements. You don't need to do anything more as part of this frp in which case Great news It's also possible that as we get closer and closer to that deadline if aquatic biota is not being met The state will come back to us and say you still haven't met it. You're going to have to do more In which case we're going to have to If we haven't implemented the town hall fields that may become Our go-to and we may need to look through a variety of other locations in the town of The town funded then stormwater leverage any fees on this Meta runner no no Thank you for asking to to clarify. We've informed metal run that they have done their due diligence And they are building a very small stormwater control in a different section of their Hoa, but yeah, they are not going to be personally held responsible for a future fix a brief update on the cash flow which Gets back to a little bit about the loan discussion is As of june 2019 we're expected to have a stormwater fund balance of 1.4 million Of this balance. We've allocated it to a number of different projects About 330,000 to the allenbrook floor restoration plan Almost 200,000 to watershed improvement projects And I can tell you what that is if you'd like 115,000 is already out to south ridge in the form of a loan which leaves roughly 780,000 to be immediately available For loans now, I know I said we may need upwards of 870,000 For loans and we only have 780,000 But even within there some wiggle room. We may get a little more revenue from This stormwater program, and we may need a little less loans out there So we are pretty confident we're close to being right where we need to be And that's the stormwater update Questions Great well done as always. Yes Thank you Thank you very much I guess the bottom line is is I'm optimistic and told I'm told I shouldn't be optimistic Okay Moving on to manager's report All right, first off I had hoped to have your quarterly report for you. I do not have that ready yet I will have that before your next meeting Finance report There isn't much to comment on other than what we've said in prior months The areas where we've been ahead Or under budget continue to be under budget such as the police department And Overall things In good shape in other words, we seem to be pretty much on target Any update on staffing because we heard I think last time that he was making progress the chief We had another is no news He's had some difficulty With the administrative assistant for example, he had hired someone and that person major personal Issue the way they had to move out west and So he had to kind of start over again And he's continuing to look at police officer candidates Yeah, the other problem is even if we hired someone there's not a lot of openings in the academy So we're going to have to do some juggling even if we do hire someone but anyway, he's he's really working So finance report I don't have anything really major to report Things are pretty much on target as I said The One item I wanted to just briefly touch on is we did have a major water loss that occurred We are pursuing legal action against the property owner because in our view due to their negligence this Water loss would have been found a whole lot sooner than it was We became aware of it and I think it was early january And it wasn't until the end of march that we found The leak and And they had bypassed they had created their own connection To one section of the building that is still being used and we weren't aware of it because they they didn't get the proper permits and the water that was Coming into the building through the leak was going to the basement of the unoccupied section of the building and it was a A dirt floor so part of it was dissipating through the dirt and part of it I guess there was an opening in the sewage system and it was going down the sewer drain And so it was a combination of things That the property owner did wrong And uh, so we're we're going after them to see if we get at least some of the money back for both the loss of the water And there's sewer charges as well And it was a lot I can't say in here what what what property owner or? um It's it's the um, I believe it's the building that's on the corner of um route 2a and the Zephyr road. Yes. Zephyr. That's it. It used to be a restaurant Used to be a Thai restaurant honey Thai Oh, yes, okay. Yeah When I first moved here it was a pizza place. Yeah, it used to be a great Italian restaurant It was a fabulous Italian restaurant way back. It was a hotel when I first moved to town So anyway, it's that building and uh over how long the period does I'm trying to envision What 9.2 million gallons of water looks like or what area that occupies Remember that the other side of it that's being used is lines of the body. That's a totally separate tiny little ballet store And that's the store that had the illicit connection So our water tank holds at 600,000 I think he said it's 450 or 450 The new one was 600,000 was okay. It was going to be 650 then and they decreased it. Okay 15 times that water tank in that little building It's almost unfathomable It was noticed by the water district They noticed that our overall usage suddenly was up higher And so we we spent a lot of time going around town. We did find one little leak involving a fire hydrant, but that didn't account for the volume And so they just kept at it and eventually narrowed it down And found it but they didn't suspect that because the business in back had water so We just had no way of knowing that they had had their illicit connection that bypassed the The system that was feeding meter was seeing this and it was basically Anyway, so this um, I don't know if you remember in attachment a Ken picked up that there was an increase in sewage flows over the past year and I wonder if this is somewhat Attributed to that also because you mentioned it was being lost down the sewer system Yeah, there was we did notice an increase in the sewer use could be due to it was only during this limited time period Which is from january to march Okay, that wouldn't have covered the period that ken was talking about And I'm sure the cold had something to do with it, you know the cold temperatures Uh, I think the only other thing I wanted to comment on is The it's not on my written report is before tonight's meeting. I met with the winewski valley park district Yeah, and it was a good meeting The they have expressed an interest in continuing discussions about the funding formula Despite the town's vote and I certainly encourage that and explain the rationale of why we were concerned about the funding formula as it is they also expressed an interest in moving forward with the What we've been called the jaco property And I explained that we are interested in moving forward with that as well But we're preoccupied at the moment with another large property And as soon as we get that a little bit of distance Um On that then we can move forward So we had a good meeting and they seem to appreciate The input that I provided and and I hope to continue that conversation as we move forward And I guess I'll just also mention the noise ordinance update. We did receive some additional information From the gun club. They've been very responsive in getting us this information It seems to contradict the information that I have however I've just recently gave it to um Eric to uh look through and and just see What it's trying to make sense of it and then we'll have to have a continuing conversation Thanks I just noticed one thing on the breakfast pancake breakfast survey results that says Fixed the flagpole. Is that in our budget for this year to do that? I believe it is Yeah, yeah, we cut it out Are you making? Yeah, right Any other business to take up tonight? Just two real quick things. Um, I saw word john zikoni with the transportation board sent out a letter and I just was hoping the town would be providing feedback on the It has to do with um aircrafts We all should have gotten an email about the helicopter. Yeah, we did my camera was it was about aircraft It's about changing the rules. I guess they're getting lots of requests for things like um private heliports And oh, yes. Yeah, I sent that over to the planning office for their input great enough said the other thing I wanted to bring up is that letter that kim colman set out Actually, I thought that letter was very helpful. It added a perspective that I really did not I don't want to say I did not consider. I remember asking, you know This is a lot to do in a short amount of time But the way she expressed how these Things take time Was just very helpful to me. My question about kim is she also on the conservation commission? Is that the same kim colman? Okay same person. Yeah, so she's the one who passes me on the mountain bike races Okay, good. Thank you. I have a very little thing I've had a couple of people say something to me about the fact that the Book sale for in the fourth of july is going to be short and whatever and they're very upset So they're just they were like just said please bring it up to the slide board meeting I said I would they said this is like they look forward to it and they buy a lot of books and they were Very much happened. The problem is that the school is going to essentially be closed because the whole instruction Won't be a place in the school for the book sale So the proposal is to use the library as a very modified book sale Yeah, it's we're very disappointed That we're in this situation. Is there any way like we can't use the armory or stuff anymore We've checked in that the the armory doesn't have as much room as you might think And this is a really stupid question, but some like a space like up here wouldn't be available It would be but it's not really ideal for that Is there any way? I mean I I'm only Diary of the mind, but could a tent, you know one of these festival type tents or anything very costly Yeah But I I know that the library board and the library staff have Mentioned, you know, they talked to me about all those different options. So they've considered all these things and yeah, okay Yeah, of course they have yeah Yeah Any other business If not We're sure Thank you all