 Hello everybody, E here. Say what you're going to say. It's kind of funny that Matilda is one of my favorite movies and Carrie is my favorite book of his. Yeah, but Matilda is not his. Yeah, but it's the same story. He's like a girl from a really bad home life finds out she has magical powers. It's just one ends badly and one ends well. I honestly never considered that. That's a very good point. Hello everybody, E here. I am here with Dan. Say hello Dan. I already said hello. Just say hello anyways. That's Dan for everybody. Me and Dan are going to be talking about Stephen King's Carrie today. All my viewers know that I am a huge Stephen King fanboy. I only recently found out that Dan has been reading Stephen King without my knowledge. Of course I love this, but I had no idea. So far, how much, what have you read so far of Stephen King's? I did a shame first just because I figured start off with the iconic one. And then I'm working on Dr. Sleep, Carrie, and I feel like... No, I don't think there's actually anything else. What about Pet Cemetery? Yes, I blocked that one from my memory. You blocked that one from my memory? No, I remember it. I feel like, I think it's just because I research a lot of true crime. Like when I'm doing pretty much anything, I'm listening to videos about true crime. So when I listen to that book, I don't think it affected me as much. Because there is a little prologue for the audio book. He was talking about how that book messed him up so bad. And how when he finished writing it, he was like, I cannot believe I just made this. And when I finally finished reading it, I'm like, this isn't actually that bad. But I think that's just because I've read and listened to so much real stuff that's worse than that. Especially because of the zombie element that it didn't affect me as much. Just because of the other stuff that I researched. Right. If you guys hear, recently my son Chris had a bicycle accident. So if you hear any upset noises in the background, you may or may not. That's because right now he's currently dealing with wound care. Shell is taking care of his wounds. I want to go back and talk to Dan more about the true crime aspect. There are several points in this book where Stephen King hops back and forth between fictional nonfiction and what is happening in the book. What I mean by that is there are several quotes from fictional books within this book to try and bring about maybe a sense of realism, a sense of depth to Carrie. How did you feel about those sections of the book? I liked that a lot. I love when stories include more of their universe. Like one of Rainbow Rowell's earlier books, Fangirl, she had the Perry Potter Perry because the main character is a person who writes fan fiction. The Harry Potter parody is called Sign in Snow and she actually goes in depth about that. And I love when stories go in, they add little things like that, like famous movies from there or famous celebrities from there because it just makes it feel a lot more real. And I like that aspect a lot. So it's the depth of the lore that you... It makes it feel like actual people who went through this because there's now more evidence, but you get to really feel, instead of just experiencing it, you get to kind of understand what it was like a little more because you see the aftermath. Got you. Much of our extended family is hyper-religious, much like Margaret White in the book. How did you feel about Margaret's treatment of Carrie? Was that realistic? Was it overblown? How do you feel? Especially, I just watched a case about Eiffard. I always forget the names of these kids and I hate it, but there was a story about a man who formed his own cult within his family and killed his like seven children because their mothers who were also both his step slash adopted and biological daughters, I'm pretty sure, were the mothers of those children. And when they came to take the children away because he wasn't taking care of them properly, he killed them. But I feel like people who don't research true crime might say like, oh, there's no way that Margaret is a realistic kid. But there are people who are like that and it's insane. You never believe it, but there are... She's strangely... I imagine King didn't actually... Not to say that he's bad at researching for his books, but I imagine he didn't do as much research into character sure like that. She was just kind of a scary religious character, but she is extremely accurate for a character who probably wasn't very in-depthly researched. Okay. Here's the reason why I wanted to do this. I got a lot of King knowledge. You got a little bit of King knowledge. You've read a couple of his books. King's mother was hyper-religious. A lot of the stuff that he brought into the book had to do with his own trials being raised ultra-religious. That makes sense. It feels like that. It feels like he has carried experience. That makes sense. Now within our own family, we have the hyper-religious aspect. Not as bad as Margaret. Just very... You do have people like my middle sister who would prefer to pray than to take a child to, let's say, a doctor. You do have those aspects that we deal with in not everyday life because we don't really have much contact with them anymore, but it's one of those things where you see something that is so extreme, something that feels so overblown that you feel like this can't possibly be true. Now I'm not saying that's how you feel, but many reviews say people aren't this extreme, but yet we know this to be true. It's quite scary how it is true and how you see these things and you think, oh that can't be true, and then you see it in real life and you still think it can't be true, but it is and it's terrifying because in fiction it seems so fictionalized that it can't even be believed because in fiction personally I like to try and believe it. And then you see it in real life and you think, well this is so crazy that it has to be fiction. It goes both ways. It's... the mind can't process it. So it just... either way when you see it you think it has to be the other thing, but you just know what. Yeah, it's like all those posts that say if 2020 was a book, no one would believe... no one would be able to suspend their belief because so much has gone wrong this year. As far as... for those of you who don't know, Dan and Chris, both of my kids have been homeschooled since the beginning. Now, Carrie of course takes place in a high... it opens up in a high school, in a shower room with Carrie being bullied for having her period later than most girls will have their period. How did you feel reading that not having that experience yourself? I know you've had experiences on playgrounds where kids have bullied you, but how did that situation feel not having the experience of public school? It felt believable. It felt just from having friends who have been in public school and I also had a friend who's been in and out of public school and being homeschooled. It felt... even though I haven't had any experiences like that myself, it did feel very realistic and it felt like something that I could have experienced if I was in public school. It's such a real feeling that's written. It almost feels violating. I should not be here watching this poor girl be bullied by her peers when she doesn't even know what's going on because she hasn't educated on what's going on. That's very... you hit the nail on the head for me. That whole scene, the whole opening of this book feels like a violation. That's why I like it because it feels... that's the type of stories I like and that's why I like comic books because you can see in the character. I love stories where it feels like I'm not supposed to be here and I should just leave this character alone, but at the same time you want to know more and that's why you keep reading and it's like, oh, this just keeps getting worse and worse. So you do enjoy... maybe not enjoy... maybe enjoy isn't the right word, but you do have a certain draw to being uncomfortable. Yeah, because it... that's why I go to fiction because there was like a few months where I just had to stop doing true crime. I didn't even realize that I stopped looking into real true crime. I went because that's when I started reading Stephen King's. I had stopped. I think just subconsciously I was going, can't do this anymore. We need something fake so we can't feel this and constantly go, oh my God, that actually happened. That isn't just a story I'm hearing in a video. That actually happened and that's why I like his stuff because I still get the same feeling, but I don't actually have to feel like that because I know it's not real. You don't have the guilt that this thing actually happened. Yeah. That's... go ahead. But to an extent it did because I was watching a video and the guy was talking about how King base carry on two girls that he knew growing up. So there is an extent where I can still feel guilty about that because she was so based on two real people. Right. So that's probably another aspect as to why it feels so real. Another thing, I don't know if you're aware of this. If you don't know, me and Dan don't talk much about Stephen King. I don't talk much about Stephen King in my real life other than when there's a new book out and either I'm bitching about it or I'm ranting or I'm raving about it. But one of the reasons why I wanted to do this is because of course Dan is a newbie. I'm a fanboy. One of the things that I wanted to bring up is the history behind Stephen King's first book, which is carry, which is what we were talking about. Stephen King threw this in the trash. Yeah. He originally threw it in the trash. Tabitha pulled it out and saved it and said continue on. There's a lot of discussion, especially in female circles whether or not Stephen King writes believable female characters, which is funny because all Stephen King fandom, all of us know, anybody who knows Tabitha reads all of these books. She reads all of Joe Hill's books before they're published too. Owen King's, I'm not sure if she works with Naomi at all. Naomi, by the way, is a Unitarian minister. Owen's an author and professor and Joe is an author. I'm not sure about Joe's other professions. How do you feel that King tackled the female species in this book? Extremely well, considering he's a guy. The shower scene, he handled it very well. And I feel like a lot of authors, not especially, also female writers. Female writers also, I think to a certain extent, it's because they're trying to make up for themselves, but male and female writers both can write extremely unrealistic female characters. It's just like, how do you, usually you can see female characters who are all the same type of character, but in this, he did it very well. It's considering most of the characters are female. You have Carrie, who's just a mess and she's Carrie. And then you have Sue, who is a believable friend character. I can't really remember if she was supposed to be a regular girl or just like kind of... She's part of the popular crowd because she's friends with Chris and all of them. I like the contrast between Chris and Sue and how they're both written well and written on such opposite ends of the spectrum. You have Sue, who the only time she's really been a horrible person was the shower. And then Chris, who's just known for being like that. They're both written very well. One of the things that strikes me so much about this book that really draws out the character is exactly what you said. Sue, Chris, Carrie, even Miss Desjardins, all of them feel like completely different characters. There's a quote from George R. R. Martin. I think Papinopoulos, I can't remember the guy's first name, but he was in an interview. I believe that's the person. I could be completely wrong. I'm sure the comment section will let me know if I am. But there was an interview with George R. R. Martin and the interviewer, I believe it was Papinopoulos said, how do you write such believable female characters? And George said, see, I have this belief that women are just people too. And I feel like that's a major flaw for most male characters because all their female characters read the same. They all have the same struggles. It seems like when a male author tackles a female, a lot of the time it boils down to menstruation, pregnancy, housekeeping, whatever it be. Go ahead. Dating. That kind of thing is like you're trying to find a husband, trying to find a boyfriend. And there's just so much more to people in general than that thing. And I think King succeeds in that area. Now he doesn't always succeed. He's written some terrible female characters. I read The Shining and Pet Cemetery back to back and I thought, what's Sue's wife's name? Sue, Sue. Pet Cemetery. Oh, no. Louis and... Sue. No, it's Louis Creed. Ellie is the Rachel. Rachel is the mother. I noticed a lot of similarities between Rachel and... I forgot her name too. Wendy. Wendy and Rachel. Winifred. Yeah, they are. At least for me, they are so similar to the point where they're almost the exact same character. It almost makes sense because of how the stories are going. But at the same time, it kind of bothers me a little bit because they're so similar. And it's like all the other characters are great. Even Norma. I love Norma. She's not the same as like Mrs. Charter. But that kind of... Because I read them back to back. The day after I finished one, I read the other. And I was like, these characters are extremely similar. That tends to happen with King. You put one down, you pick up another one. Other than that, they are very believable. Because even female writers, I think it's just a psychological thing. Trying to be that perfect woman that's often portrayed. So instead of just writing a character no matter their gender, they write the perfect woman who has everything that they want and personality. And that's a... I think it really pops up in those stupid romance novels. All the female characters are the same. But he writes female characters better than some female authors. Wow. There's a thing. Jillian Flynn who wrote Dark Places, Gone Girl, Sharp Objects. I didn't care too much for Gone Girl. I like Sharp Objects. Okay, I love Dark Places. But one of the things that she said, the whole reason why she started writing was because she wanted to write female characters that were flawed because there were so few flawed female characters. Everybody wanted to write about strong women, positive women. Not just strong women, but positive aspects of women. And she came out swinging, guns blazing, writing about women who were altogether flawed. Another thing, going back to Carrie real quick, we were talking about how Sue is different from Chris. Chris is different from Carrie. Carrie is different from Desjardins. But on top of everything, there is also Margaret White. You have all these different aspects, all these different characters. And when you go back to, you have the sexual liberation of Chris and even to a point, Sue, you have the sexual liberation of those two characters while at the same time you have the closeted mindset of Carrie and her mother and then you have the neutral aspect of Miss Desjardins. It's such a hard name to say. Damn you, King. Miss D. Yeah, Miss D. So I really like the contrast at this point. Once again, if you're listening in and you hear voices in the background, we're doing this in the kitchen and we're a very open family. So if you hear other voices, please don't pay it any mind. No, we're at Mind Your Business. Chris is getting ready for bed and Shell is trying her best to stay quiet. Shell, say hi. What's up? What's up? So do you have any more thoughts? Before I ask you any more questions, if you hear what sounds like a vibrator in the background, that's my son brushing his teeth. You didn't have to say that. I didn't have to. But it's still funny. Anyways, do you have anything else that you want to say before I ask you any more questions about Cary, what you liked, what you didn't like? I'd especially like to hear what you didn't like if you didn't like something. I don't want to repeat myself, so I'll just answer as we go. Okay. One of the things that bothers me about the book is the two-act structure. It seems kind of limited. And I think the more I read it, I've read it I think five times by this point. Every single time I have read it, it's meant something completely different to me. I read it as a young man. I read it as a young adult. I read it as a father. I read it again as a father who had dealt with a child that had gone through puberty. And this last time I read it, I read it shortly before you read it, and he gave me a whole other look at things. And that's why I wanted to talk to you about it. The struggles, it's been a long time since I've been a teenager. Been a very long time, and I've never been a female teenager at all whatsoever. I've never had to deal with any of that stuff. When it comes down to that aspect of the book, we already discussed. You said he handled it very well. Do you think there's anything that he got wrong that really affected your suspension of disbelief? I don't think it made me like within reading, but after words I kind of noticed. I know that it is different for everyone because I've read like some people just don't have cramps whatsoever, which I can imagine because I get them super bad. I can't stand up sometimes, but I would have liked if throughout the book, because it does fall. I'm pretty sure it's a short amount of time. I would have liked if Carrie experienced some other symptoms of having her period. So like the physical distress of actually having it? Being sore, having cramps, being tired. That's a good point. I would have liked to experience that and be in her mind. Not only is she experiencing the main part, but she's also experiencing all of the other side effects. I would have liked to see that to see how her mind is going. I don't have to deal with this. I have to deal with all of this other stuff too. I completely understand. I never actually thought about that side of it. It's not really focused on the pain that comes with it, all that stuff. I think there is a slight mention of cramps. I can't actually remember. You can't memorize every word of everything that you read, so I think there might be a slight mention of that. That's a very good point because it just comes on so sudden. I don't want to get too in-depth about your own biological stuff. I don't want to get into that. It seems odd to me that she didn't see it coming. There was no precursor to the pain. There was no painful precursor or anything like that because as a man, all I know is what I hear or what I read and from what I understand is there's pain a day or two before. The reason I brought that up is because it would have made me believe it just a little bit more on top of all the other stuff. Not only is she going through the bullying that's happening and not really believing that Tommy actually wants to take her to the dance, I would have liked it. I am so tired. I'm having to deal with all of my stupid classmates. This guy is asking me out. I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually want to take me out. On top of that, my torso hurts and I feel like I'm dying. I think he would have made it a little believable. That too. I'm sure not everyone has cramps prior, but a few days before that would have been. Maybe she is very lucky. This is true. Then again, we are talking about a fictional character. Did King not put it in there because he didn't realize that that was the case or did he not put it in there because he realizes that some people do not have those issues as badly as others. It all comes down to authorial intention and only King and maybe Tabitha, maybe his kids know. Carrie, I find myself liking Carrie more and more the older I get. When I was younger, I thought I was a little horse shit. I think I gave it two stars and every single time that I've read it, I've given it more stars like 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4. It's the same way with Pet Cemetery. Every single time I read it, it means something different to me. With the last one, my last reread, what really, really struck me was the theme of blood. You have the period, you have the pig, and then you also have the dumping of the pig's blood. And then at the end of the whole thing, what do you have? She stops her mother's heart with her mind. What does the heart do? It pumps blood. While you were reading this for your first time, be completely and utterly honest. No is an acceptable answer. Did any of that stuff click with you the very first time that you read it? I'm not very good at it, but I just forget. I try to remember little stuff like that and see if it comes up again. It usually doesn't work, usually I just forget. It wasn't overbearing. Blood, blood, blood. Hey, did you remember there's blood in this book? There's blood, but it felt like a little thing. That was great. It was just enough so that it worked, and it wasn't annoying being overhead with it, but it was recognizable without being annoying. It was easy to see the pattern of blood. The theme of blood. The first, I'm just going to go through this real quick. I don't know what the second part is called. Actually, I know what the first part is called. The first part of the book is called blood sport, and I believe the second part of the book is called the prom. I'm trying to flip through this paperback copy, and the pages are sticking together. The second one is prom night. Part one is blood sport. Part two is prom night. Let's go ahead and talk. I brought up the fact that Carrie is standoffish about Tommy. She doesn't know whether or not Tommy actually likes her, but at some point in time, you get a feeling in the book. Now, I didn't get this feeling. Me and Dan completely disagree on what Carrie movies are good. I think, and I get a lot of flack for this, but I think that the movie, the movie Chloe Grace Moretz remake, is better than the Sissy Spacic version. I slightly agree with that. I can understand why, but I think there's, it's also because it's so modern. I feel like there is a certain degree to where this story doesn't work in modern times, especially the names. The names in 2017 or whatever that movie was made, but I don't know how many teenagers do you meet that I named Sue and Carrie? Yeah, I've never met a Carrie or Sue. I get what you're saying there. I do believe that just because of, I guess, just his mindset, because he lived in that time when he was right. For me, it really doesn't feel like it works in modern times. There's another remake. I'd like to see it take place in the time that takes place in the book. There's a preference. No, it is just, I can't think of why I prefer, actually, I don't know why I prefer the Sissy Spacic version, but I just, there's a certain vibe that you get when you watch it that I much prefer, but I just, I don't like the casting. Yeah, I don't either. No, in the most recent, Oh, in the most recent one, okay. See, this is where we disagree. Not so long ago, he's a fine actor. I like Baby Driver or whatever. Chloe Grace Moretz is a fine actor. I like her and what she's in. I'm pretty sure there's other actors that I know in the movie, but they're fine, but I just, all of them together in this movie with this plot and taking place in a modern day setting, it doesn't rub me the right way and I don't feel like it really portrays the themes the same. Okay, fair enough. One of the reasons why I like the new one more than the Sissy Spacic version is because I never believed in the Sissy Spacic version, which I saw the movie before I ever read the book. I didn't believe that Carrie and Tommy had any chemistry. There was no chemistry there. I didn't believe that Tommy actually, it didn't feel like Tommy actually liked her, whereas with the Ansel, whatever the hell his name is, and Chloe Grace Moretz, with them they had actual chemistry. Yeah, I didn't like that, because they were, was it him in the movie? Because she did the fifth wave. I'm pretty sure he was in that movie. I can't remember. I've never seen that one. But I do agree with that. I did feel like to a certain extent that he didn't have a good time with her at the prom. I think my favorite, we haven't mentioned it, my favorite is the one from 2002. Was it? The one with, oh, what's her name? Anna, I can't remember her name. You're talking about the made for TV movie. It was apparently supposed to start a show, too. But I think that one. Let's talk about that real quick. It actually was, James A. Janisse on Kill Count talked about this, but it was supposed to spawn the, the Anna Bettis? What's her name? I can't remember. But the made for TV movie was supposed to spawn a, and we don't talk about the Rage 2 at all. It doesn't exist in the lexicon of Stephen King movies. With the made for TV movie, they got so much right, but they didn't have the production quality for it. They didn't have, they got the ending perfect. They got damn near everything. She destroys the town, all that stuff. But it was so terribly made, and I never, I tried to watch it, but I couldn't, the acting was so, Angela Bettis, I think is her name. It was so, so bad. And if you watch the Kill Count for it, James A. Janisse goes over why it was so bad, but there were certain aspects to it that I did enjoy because they got the destruction of the town right. No matter, no matter if they, no matter if you hate the production quality, they at least tried, and I give them props for that one. But as far as her is Carrie, first off, Carrie is a chubby, acne-ridden teenager in the book. She's supposed to have a, she's supposed to have a makeover. She's supposed, because she's finally, finally actually hitting puberty, she's supposed to be, like, start, like, looking better and more mature, and that's why it's gonna, it would be extremely hard unless you did like a Chris Evans beating himself up for Captain America type scenario. Right, right. It would be extremely hard to portray that same makeover, and I think that's why they did, they portrayed Sissy Spacey the same way with the baggy clothes and the long hair and fireface to hide it as much, so maybe it's like a little more believable. I do like, what were we talking about? I'm trying to get off, trying to try to talk to her. Oh, sorry. I got, I got, I went off on my own tangent and completely left you behind. We were, I, you had mentioned the, the, the mate, you said you did like the TV movie for some reason. Do you remember what you were gonna say? I think it's just because it's, I wouldn't say higher production, definitely not. Sissy's one, but I just, it portrays the same themes as the book, but it adds more and the one thing that I really don't like about it is the heart stopping. I feel like that's a wonderful scene to portray in a book because you can let yourself imagine it, but the even, there's no way to portray that well on screen. The zooming in the heart, even if it's good special effects, it's gonna look silly and just watching her crumple to the ground without having to zoom in is like, wait, what just happened? That's a good point. I do like how she died in the first movie and how the way she mimics the statue she made. Right, right. That's a very cool, that the iconography there is, still my favorite ending is the book because Carrie literally dies in Sue's arms. I got goosebumps just thinking about it. That is a fantastically moving scene to have those two come back together. You started with that, once again you have that theme of blood, but you also have that theme of you start off with this enemy victim kind of scenario and then by the end of it Sue has come around and Sue is really the only person other than maybe Carrie throughout the book who changes. Mr. Jardin is the same what's her nuts? Chris Hargensen is the same Tommy Tommy is just Tommy if anything you know what's funny, if anything I think the men and the boys in this book are the are the lacking ones. They're the ones who are the most playing or antagonistic. I can't believe I'm sure I've done because I'm not at that good name but I cannot believe that within hearing her name three times in a row she'll call her Carly or whatever he calls her I can't believe that. It happens all the time. I've done it to people unfortunately I will be completely honest with you I'm terrible with names some of my longtime viewers won't believe this but that's why I am so adamant learning my viewers names and my friends names is because I'm so bad at it that I've trained myself I have called some longtime friends some of everything I don't know why this is the case but it just happens but with the principle I do feel that the principle and you bring up the name thing is a little bit over the top for his character his whole character feels over the top in modern times but back then they had no respect for women they had no respect for girls he was just there trying to calm down the situation calm down the woman that's freaking out because she's a woman that's freaking out exactly men don't cry there's no crying in baseball going back to the ending real quick I've always loved the comeuppance that Chris and Tommy get at the end I love that part I love the destruction of the town I guess I probably should put a spoiler warning at the head of this podcast but the one of the most striking things I feel like I said is the destruction of a town by a young woman who only ever wanted to fit in destroying the place that she called home feels like a perfect ending to me and that's why the original first I don't care too much for the Sissy Spasic version simply because I think the only good part of that movie is Sissy Spasic's performance but I don't think she was a good carry I know that sounds contradictory but I don't think she did a good performance but not a good performance as Carrie would be a good performance I never believed that Carrie was someone who would have been bullied now that's just my own opinion I know everybody gets bullied no matter what shape no matter what what your your deal is perfect no matter what your deal is everybody gets bullied I remember when I went to school even the popular kids we used to make fun of the popular kids off to the side when they weren't picking on us so with that one and again with the Chloe Grace Moretz I don't believe that she was ever I don't believe that she ever would have been bullied I understand that it's a movie but she is just too much of a picture perfect person to believe that's why I don't like her I mean her performance was fine but she did good she did good I don't know why I find the scene where she's lifting up her bed and putting it down in that one makes me laugh it feels very no I know why actually it's her hand reaching out and the face she's making something about Chloe Grace Moretz's face this is going to sound horrible I'm sorry but whatever when she is overacting using her face she just feels so silly to me she looks like a comic book character like the old comic book characters where their faces are all wonky in the bedroom scene when she's lifting up her bed she just looks so dumb that I can't see that's where personal preference comes in because I loved all of that I thought she did a fantastic job but once again one of those things is just preference with people have called me a troll thinking that I hate on certain Stephen King content just to get views beyond silly because if anything I would want to bring in the Stephen King fans not piss them off but there is a bit of solidarity when you do come across someone who dislikes the same kind of thing that you do and I think that's where the beginning of the book fits in where Sue is friends with these girls that are just absolutely terrible, horrible people especially Chris Hargenson and Chris is best friend I can ever remember her name I don't remember all the little lackeys that she had or any of them and I know they're portrayed very well in all of the movies in fact the shitty side characters are good in all of them but that's one of the things that strikes me so much about the book is the ability for someone to change there's a story arc here but the major story arc I feel is in Sue Sue Snell's character is the major story arc and while Carrie might be the main character the most compelling character in the book for me is Sue because she is the one who is trying to enact change throughout the entire thing whereas Ms. Desjardins even though she is sticking up for Carrie she even slaps Carrie like stop overreacting all this stuff I can't understand that freak out sometimes it's just the best way to do it is a physical reaction because it's a difference I can see that I think it's still kind of an overreaction but back then there was capital punishment or corporal punishment I can't remember what it's called I think capital punishment is death so it's corporal punishment is a physical like a beating of some kind but back then was the norm I used to spank kids all the time but I think on a final note what I want to leave off on is I find this book fascinating because every single time I read it it gets better and that's not always the case with Stephen King books that there are quite a few that get better upon a second reading Lisa's story was better a second time Bag of Bones was better a second time so on and so forth some utter garbage in the Stephen King lexicon out of the books that you have read this is where I want to end this out of the books that you have read which one so far is your least favorite oh my I've only read like four yeah but that cemetery and the shining haven't finished haven't finished Doctor Sleep so out of those three or is the reason why you haven't finished Doctor Sleep is because he's not as good as his other stuff actually I think I'm like because the other stuff I like it I like seeing Danny as an adult but it's just not as compelling as I thought it would be I thought it would be much more interesting to see him as an adult and having the same issues as his father both the parallel with that and having the shining and having Abra and the other stuff that's happening my favorite part so far are the true not honestly when we're not with them I'm kind of bored they are very well written scenes like the scene where the old woman dies and he talks to um what's home I'm definitely going to have spoiler warnings for several things that's alright go ahead I forgot his name spoiler warnings the end spoiler warning for Doctor Sleep we're about to talk a little bit about Doctor Sleep before we end the episode um the scene where my favorite scene so far that isn't what the true not is when he's with the old woman and she takes forever to like die and he talks to the guy from the hotel and tries to name uh not Horster Wint you talking about the bartender Grady oh hang on Dick Halloran that's my favorite scene so far but other than that when it's on Abra or Danny oh no the library mine seems really good too but other than that if it's not the true not true not I'm kind of bored like it's good well one of the major complaints and we're going to save this for an actual maybe Shining Doctor Sleep episode once you once you finish that uh one of one of the most striking things about Doctor Sleep and it is a complaint from a lot of the fans that the movie took care of was the feeling that Abra was overpowered and that the true not were not good villains yes I understand yeah okay before you say anything else I'm actually going to end the episode here because we don't want to go into too much for the other books thank you for joining us uh I don't know what I'm going to call this uh this Stephen King podcast Peek Peek Peek Peek King Cast Yeah Peek Peek Cast No the E Cast but no I want to put Dan in here too I don't even know where I'm going to upload this Lowercase K, uppercase E and G King Cast Anyways so thanks for joining us until next time I have been E, you have been Dan say goodbye no exactly but until next time I'll talk to you guys later bye bye my hair went off