 Today, my program law across the sea is titled Tomodachi Taka. My guest is Joji Kamioka, who is among other things vice president of Hakuo University. Mr. Kamioka and I have been friends for about 40 years. He is committed to ensuring that Hakuo University has a strong international presence and believes that by increasing contacts with other cultures in our interconnected society, we can all grow and develop. It is of utmost importance for students and Mr. Kamioka's mind to develop these skills in this globalized world. He has been instrumental in expanding Hakuo's international initiatives. He welcomes students from other countries and he has programs sending Japanese students of Hakuo to other countries, especially to Hawaii, which he's been doing for many, many years. Although most of my programs deal with law, today we're going to talk a little bit about culture and how culture affects us. And as a lawyer, you can learn a lot from culture. In many ways, being a lawyer, you have to interview your clients and learn things from them in order to help them, in order to defend them, in order to advance their cause. So today, Joji and I, we're old friends, we're Tomodachis. We're going to be talking a little bit about culture and how it affects us. Joji, welcome very much. Good to see you again. Thank you for coming on today. I'm very happy to have this opportunity to participate in your program. But I'm not a lawyer, even though I'm not a judge. That's okay. I hope I'm not imposing on you. Not at all. But we are friends, over 40 years. I know your hair. I still remember. Yeah, curry hair. We've been sending the students to Hawaii since 1976. Why did you do that? What are your feelings about that? What is the reason how it works? I just started in 1974. But at the time for the English major students required to go to Hawaii. At the time, only 50 students. At the time of 1967, only half, 25 students came. Over 45 years ago, nobody goes to abroad. Why is that? Yeah, but at the time, Hawaii is the closest country to know the western culture. That's why we started. Since then, we've been sending the students to Hawaii. Over 3,000 students came. But only short term, like an excursion trip. But our graduate student number is 30,000. This means 110. I mean, 10% of the school students come to Hawaii, to know Hawaii, to learn the mutual culture, understanding, or different cultures. Why is that important? You know, to know the other culture or to know the other religious is very important for them. Over 40 years or 50 years, our dream is going to abroad with Mr. and Mrs. But that over 40 had the money is too late to be learned different culture under 20. When you're young? Yes. I was here on 1969 at the time of my student in Hawaii, 1969. How old were you then? I'm nearly 70 years old. Now? You were about 20 years old then? Yeah, at the time. But I had intensive English course in UH Manoa for 2 months or 3 months. But at the time I just played guitar, like folk music at the time. I had a show in Kick TV for the one hour show for Kezu and Kohou. I was here in Hawaii? Yes. I was learning also Japanese theater no more, but Washington Waikiki singing. So you were not studying English, but you were studying song lyrics? Yeah, song lyrics. Sorry, sorry. But these experiences for me, I get so many good experience. So that's why I asked to the students going to Hawaii. But also, aside from that, we sent in a student an Oxford in England or New York, California, San Berberno or Sacramento, or Indiana states. These are our sister states of our Tochiki prefectures. So we sent in a student IUPUI, but still Hawaii is very popular. Popular place. You know, one thing I noticed when I, you know, you and I have both gone back and forth many times. Yes. When I first came to Hawaii, many times I've been to Japan quite a few times also. Yes. First time I went to Japan, I was a student also. For the Sophia. Sophia University, yeah. And I went to, Sophia is near New Otani Hotel. Right, right. And so one day I was in the New Otani Hotel and I heard this American tourist yelling, Why doesn't anybody speak English here? You know, which tells me, as I think back on it, a lot about both cultures. You know, Americans expecting everybody to speak English. Yeah. But the Japanese didn't grab that education at the time. Only a few Japanese. So what explains that? That was 45 years ago. The people who were working in New Otani already maybe retired. If you're visiting right now, everybody can speak fluent English really. So we studied English very well, especially in the railway station or hotels. Who serve Americans who are coming. We started to speak English very fluent. Did the timers know? No, no. And was there a reason for that? Was there a reason why? I mean, maybe it's presumptuous as an American to say everybody should speak English. Okay, it is presumption, not maybe. It means also American cannot speak French, sometimes German too. Both Japanese for sure. But we find English is a common national language, not Esperanza. At one time that was what everybody was going to think Esperanza was, but English is. So that's why in our country, even in elementary school, we started to learn English. But already 10 years ago, we started learning English at elementary school. It's Korea, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Philippines also. But we are too late, 10 years behind. Those other countries started earlier. They felt it was an advantage to speak English. Maybe we as Americans are very lucky because of that. Those other countries thought we're going to get in, speak English and be able to deal with Americans, mostly Americans. Japan started a little bit later. Some things in Japan seem very formal, how you say things. Customs seem to change slow in Japan. What are some examples? No, we still have some respect for the older peoples or for the women. But in the United States, it's very equal. John is John, Mike is Mark, something like that. I astonished because in Japan, we speak for the older peoples very polite. But in English, not like that. But I astonished on the TV show where President Clinton crossed the leg. When he's being interviewed? The audience came to ask the question. The audience also crossed the leg. What's wrong with that? That is, oh, should be respect. The attitude must be modest. Or may I ask a question? But he asking all the President, I'll ask a question like that. So a little too open, a little too formal. Too open, but... From a Japanese viewpoint. Japanese viewpoint, both first. May I ask a question? If I'm American lawyer, I'm meeting a Japanese client. Should not cross the legs. Go across my legs. That is a cultural difference. So that's why so many Japanese students after visiting the excursion trip to Hawaii, Americans drivers very rude. They didn't follow the rule. They turn to the light easily with a red light. But that is your state law or American law. When you after stop, nobody, no car coming, then easily to... It's okay to turn right. But in Japan, no. So that's why our student is Japanese driver is very good. American, bad. They cannot understand the rule. But that is a point of view. Japanese standard is different for the American standard. And that's what they would write after some sort of evaluation or something of their trip. And they were very surprised because people are not following the Japanese traffic rules. Yes, yes. That is a difference. But also beer is very cheap. Why beer is very cheap? They say. Okay, so let's say if I am a... If you are my client from Japan, what do I think? If you come to a stop and you won't turn, that I will know. I will know that because in Japan, you cannot turn right on the light. So maybe that's what they're imposing their own cultural values and laws on America. Is that... That's true. What happened? For you or for both? Both things. So mutual cultural understanding is very important to know each other. Not about the religious. I don't know why most of them don't eat pork or something like that. So these things are part of the culture. In Japan, you might not understand it. But we started some business for the meal for the... What do you call it? Muslims' product to make or serve for the restaurant. How do you call it? Do you have students from all over the world? Yes, sometimes from Malaysia. They are Muslims. And so sometimes when you are in Japan, you have to learn about these other cultures in order to bring them into your school. Is this hard for Japanese? Is this a hard thing for Japanese to learn? I remember when I was a student, sometimes they would point at me, Gaijin. And sometimes I think because I didn't know what I was doing, I wasn't following the rules, the formal rule. So that's why we have a system for the exchange program. Exchange student from Indiana State or Bergen from Norway. This student is a very good student to know the different cultures. Does it help? Yes, it helps. And so your students at the end... Good influence for our students, Japanese students. That's why we started the exchange program. We send it to more than 40 students to send it to Australia in Brisbane, Griff's University. We send it to 40 students for one year course, tuition free. But Griff's University is sending only two students. I don't know why, but we get so many influence. How do I say? One Australian teacher asking to the additional class. Let's take a break. And then we're going to add one to ask you about that. We'll take a break right now. Thank you. A veteran, my victory was finding the strength to be a champion. 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Well, we are back with Georgie Kamioka, vice president of Hakuo University. We've been talking about cultural differences that sometimes make a difference when you're just meeting people, and especially when you're a lawyer, when you represent them. When I went to Japan over 40 years ago, there were a number of students from America coming to learn about Japan. I don't think there were so many Japanese going to America at that time, but things have increased, and we're starting to learn more and more about each other. Learning about our cultures is important. Georgie, when we took our break, you were talking about a experience you had at your school with an Australian teacher. Oh, yes. One Australian teacher is asking me to do the additional class. Because he's not a full-time teacher. So Georgie, please, I need the money. I'd like to do additional class. But you know, in Japan, the class is from Monday to Friday. Saturday is like an additional, or what you call like a substance, or some courses for the teachers. Like a special course. Only Saturday. So finally, I just put an intensive course for him for Saturday. So after the payment, he complained, Georgie, I worked at Saturday. Saturday must be twice the price in Australia. Right. Is that right? I don't know. Saturday and Sunday is Christianities or I should not do work. So I worked for Saturday. Please give me double. Yeah, so finally I owe. That's the way in Australia. Do you remember in Australia, in Sydney, in the Olympics? Yeah. Saturday and Sunday, good restaurants are closed. Because of the payment, which is double. So good one, closed. Only the people who watch the Olympic Games, Saturday, Sunday, go to the hamburger shop, fried chicken only. These things happen, still. So you learn something yourself. From another culture. From another culture. Christianities, Sunday, especially, go to church. Don't work. Saturday too. But Japan too. Japan, Saturday and Sunday, not working. I mean, no school. But we started the class in some elementary or junior high school. Not all. Started to study on Saturday. Before, Saturday and Sunday, no school. But like a United States, but change. That is for some program for the education system. You and I, over the years, we met many times. We talked very candidly about many, many things. What? What does it all mean? What are your thoughts? What is the interrelationship of cultures? Where are we going? What can we learn from one another? Good questions. Because we should know each culture. After that, we should go to another places for the goal. Because after the World War, we believe Japanese government and also we believe we follow the American style. Like a former Prime Minister Koizumi followed the Americans. Scrub and build, scrub and build. Try it again. This system is not so adjusted for our society. What does that mean? Do you remember the Ronald Reagan? He started as a salesman and started to the TV station or radio station. After that, MC and become an actor. And then become some unions. Changing jobs. And then go to the governor for the California, running for the president. We don't respect so many occupation changing. Japanese culture. Japanese culture. It should be only one way to straight 40 years, 50 years. I can give you the metal like that. So in the United States, that is changing. And one more step is Adomaiya things. So that's why at the time it was Ronald Reagan's funeral. I was in Wisconsin. Even in the airport, flux is like half flux. Right, half mass, yeah. And then also when I check in hotels, the boy is proud. This is time for our proud president, Reagan, that's the way he explained. So I astonished. We Japanese don't respect these guys. So the viewpoint, because he had so many jobs. Changing. It's as a time is in Japan, our government sending to the good friend like former minister Nakasuna just attending. But in the funeral, so many big shots from Europe. Except Japan. Japan is changing the occupation is not respectable. So can Japan learn from that? What can we learn? After that, we find is changing the occupation is not a shame. Like American way, try it again. This is mainly bashful thing is if it fails, not standing up again. Japan viewpoint was what before? Before is one occupation should not change. When police must be go to police. So if I'm a lawyer and I know you are Japanese who have changed different occupation, maybe I can sense something wrong. Culturally. Now we have influences from American society. Still also like your president now, not so popular, but he had experienced three times bankrupt. After three times bankrupt, still is working. That is American way. Before. Keep trying. Keep fighting. Like trying. So the other cultures, I suppose. What about Japanese? What do Japanese, do they have the same feeling? No, young generation is changing. But before, I am what I am because of you. Thank you for helping the others like that. I'm still keep on this occupation like that. That is a Japanese way. But now changing affected from so many things from the United States. Is that good? I think it's good. Good. What are the good and what is the bad? Good? I don't know. Try it again. Let me try it again. That is the way. But now our problem is after retired. 65 years or nearly 70 years. What shall we do? In Japan or your country didn't tell after the retire. We don't have any plan. Sometimes women had so many hobbies or take a children or take a grand daughter, something like that. But men, nothing to do in Japan. So many retired people only strolling the department store. Two hours. And then go to the library just sitting down. That's an older generation. Do you think the younger generation is changing? Might be. Might be changing. Is Japan becoming more diverse? Because I think a lot of what we've talked about, Japan was not diverse. And that's why they spoke Japanese all the time. They didn't speak other languages. Are things changing in Japan? We must expect for the immigrant from other countries. Now our government is thinking to become a society with other nationalities, different cultures, living together like the United States. This is time because our population is going to increase. So this is time to helping people from other countries to help. Is that really happening? So it means after 50 years, after 100 years, this is Hawaii is our example. So from a Japanese point of view, in Japan, after 100 years, it becomes like Hawaii. Really? Yes. Each nationality has each culture, but living together, speaking one language, this is a destination. It's Hawaii, I suppose. That's what you think the future of Japan. Well, that will mean also that sometimes there will be misunderstanding. Oh, really? Different cultures. Living together. They don't trust each other, maybe, or it's harder to make a contract. That's true, because I learned, I didn't learn the word in like a duck. Duck is only duck. It means like Donald. Different words have different meanings. Yes, different meanings. A lot. There's so many tell-offs after that. After the tell-offs. A lot. But we didn't learn the name of the a lot, like that. So you're beginning to learn a new vocabulary, even in Japan. Yes, that's true. Let me ask you one final question. What can we in America learn from Japan? What do you think we can... Modest. Only modest. But it should keep friendly. Yeah, our society is just helping each other with neighbors before. Right now, getting weak. In Japan. Yes, like that. Because even though my neighbors, we didn't know each other. Only right next door, as we know. But not involving for some societies, programs. Communities. Communities. Starting to change. Change in Japan. And modesty. Modesty is something that's built into the culture in Japan. We don't... We don't... In Japan, we don't talk about all our accomplishments. We don't know much about for the volunteers. But in the United States, so many people at the volunteer. Volunteer. For the Saturday and Sunday. We just started to begin. Japan can learn about that. Yes. That's true. That's true. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Joji. It was nice to see you again after all these years being together. Thank you very much. Thank you. See you. Thank you.