 Welcome to Inside Leather History of Fireside Chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe. I'm the host and producer of the chats which are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today I'm sitting down for an interview with Richard Leather. He's the first Mr. Leather Wales and that was in 2016, also the first runner-up to Mr. Leather West 2015. Currently Richard is the president of Leatherman Camry. How are you Richard? I'm good thank you Keith. So how are things in Wales today? Yeah it's all good here. Today's a nice sunny day it's been and yeah looking forward to having a chat this evening. Fantastic. So let's start right at the very beginning. Tell us a little bit about where you're from and you're growing up here. Well I grew up here in Wales closer to Swansea than Cardiff. I grew up and sort of there I sort of grew up with my dad and my brother and two sisters and yeah I sort of really enjoyed my time in a small town called Neith in Sheeran Wales. Did you have any concept about homosexuality or fetish when you were growing up? Well it's one of the questions that I got asked being sort of sort of going in for being a mister was when or what was your first sort of piece of leather or where do you recall sort of that interest into sort of fetish or what have you and I started sort of thinking back to my time as a child around sort of eight or nine in the 80s when growing up and sort of the pop era and there was sort of then the leather ties and sort of the slim leather ties and growing up is what I wanted. I wanted sort of a leather tie and I had a bright pink series leather tie and a grey one. So that's really my first sort of recollection of sort of fetish or leather wear as such and then so going on is when then sort of going into employment and that I've been finished school one of the first things I wanted was to be able to afford to buy really a leather jacket. So I invested my money wisely in buying a leather jacket and that is what I wanted. So from that I think obviously there was really an interest there in leather, not really understood what leather was, bikers and all of that interest sort of growing up but really sort of into being sort of gay or what have you. Well that was later on in life for myself. I didn't sort of come out as being sort of a gay man until really I was 27 so a lot later in sort of sort of life rather than sort of being that sort of early teenage sort of years and that and that is really sort of where then my sort of taking up being sort of gay and thinking well I don't sort of recognise going to the clubs and bars and what have you in Wales when you see the drag queens I really didn't fit into that element and the interest there grew around sort of fetish and leather was where I felt a little bit more comfortable in men being more manly in in their appearance. Let's take a step back tell me how you felt wearing the leather ties. It was the in thing it was what was happening but it really gave sort of that image the sort of confidence and what have you in the school discourse and what have you so really sort of enjoyed wearing really my leather tie at the time. Did you feel excited or definite always just having that first piece of leather and being able to go and buy it was exciting it was really exciting just to go and buy a piece of leather that I owned and it was what I wanted so the feel the touch even at a young age was really sort of yeah really exciting to to be able to own a piece of leather. Tell me what you were thinking and feeling when you acquired your jacket. Oh that I mean the actual sort of thinking well this is what I wanted I wanted a leather jacket I wanted that actual sort of in essence it was more what I felt comfortable in it wasn't sort of seeing other guys bikers and all of that is what I wanted I wanted that look I wanted the feeling and having that on wearing yeah I felt a lot more grown up and sort of feeling yeah I'm much more now becoming a man in essence having sort of bought my my leather jacket as well. Do you still have it? I don't sadly I don't that's one thing I don't have sort of and I would have been sort of definitely have grown out of it by now anyway so. How did you even know about sort of that leather look what was your first introduction to that? Well I think sort of with TV programs and what have you you had the sort of American sort of programs on where you had the police bikers and all of that sort of seeing all of that it's the understanding well I like that look it's something I like is I think what drew sort of me then towards that is something that actual sort of and seeing bikers and that around as well. You said you came out sort of as a leather man at age 27 what was your life prior to that? Before sort of coming out being gay even I mean I was very much straight and going to nightclubs and all of that element but not all gay community really it was all the straight community and sort of date a few girls and and that as well but never really felt comfortable enough to actually commit to to anyone still sort of liked my freedom and been able to be who I am but suddenly that realization is well I don't know if this is really me and then saying to myself well okay is it and looking at guys I know when I was younger going through sort of the catalogue of seeing or magazine seeing guy in underwear and what have you had an attraction and it's that sort of thinking well really is me being an attract or having attraction to men that I was thinking well okay let's go on to explore that side rather than sort of the straight community. How did you come out into the leather scene at age 27? Well it was a little bit later not much later than when I first sort of came out as being gay that I then met a guy and that's where I moved from near Swansea to Cardiff and one evening we just decided to go to visit Bristol and parties in a different sort of gay scene to Swansea or Cardiff something a bit different and there we went for a meal we went to a couple of the gay bars and we just decided to we were going to head on to a nightclub again nightclub on a Wednesday evening just didn't think any more than we were going to disco party and parked up the car went us there for a drink and ended back at the club we paid went into the club and as soon when we got through into the bar it wasn't the disco night and my first reaction was I'm in a fetish bar straight away it was a fetish night that they held in the bar once a month that was my first stumble really by accident into the fetish world and it really sort of that first initial reaction was am I safe in this venue that was the first thing what I was concerned on is knowing was I safe so it took me a while just to adjust to the environment had a drink settled myself down with my partner and that realisation that yes we were safe no one had come on to us nor nobody had sort of dragged us off and tied us up even though there were guys tied to benches there were guys in cages and that being played with we were safe we were there and it was that sort of ability to go explore at our own pace and what we were comfortable with and that really got my sort of thoughts is yeah I quite like and feel comfortable I want to be involved in some of this play that's gone on and stirred and observed and tugging a lot of that information of what was happening and seeing then thinking okay I want to go and try some of this myself so back at home as you do behind the closed doors you start to explore some of these sort of areas of fetish and finding what you're comfortable with and yeah it was really from there the journey started really into a life of enjoying the fetish sort of scene but upon walking into that club did you have any idea about this fetish scene did you even know anything about it I must have known something because the first words was this is a fetish event so I think looking at magazines and internet and what have you stumbled across sort of porn or what have you where some of this is and you start to have that realization of what is fetish but never really encountered it in a real life situation that was the first encounter so there I must have understood or had an inclination because the first words were this is a fetish event after you felt a little more comfortable in the menu what fetishes in that situation did you find the most appealing I quite like dumb bondage and that is something that really intrigued me the actual sort of restraint and that ability to just sort of then allow someone else to then have a little bit of control it's not something I'm comfortable in giving other people control it tends to I'm quite sort of a person that likes to just have a little bit of the reins on things and again it challenges you on on that to hand that over to someone else and for me a lot of the time is that I give out rather than and sort of have done to myself but again it's still that exploring some of the sort of enjoyment around bondage and sort of also seeing sort of again the sort of guys being sort of whipped and what have you as well in their intrigue me and also electoral play they were doing and the ability to stimulate a guy with electorals and just put in a pulsation and there was definitely something that sort of interest me and intrigued me and and finding more on sort of the ability to enjoy that play with with someone so in this club conversely if you found things there that you did enjoy and were titillating were there things going on that you found awful off-putting terrifying um well yeah there were guys being um fisted um in the venue and first off that sort of thinking I'm not quite certain on that um element of off-play and um even now um I'm quite wary in going into that play um especially sort of exploring it with someone new and not adverse to sort of um sort of fisting a guy or what have you but again for me is being more um I talk and then I want to enjoy um a sort of fucking a guy um compared to then fisting so I'd keep off um unless they regular um be infested I try not to go into that play um too much what other activities did you find in Bristol within the sort of club in in Bristol they sort of as they ran this on a sort of monthly basis and again it continued on in Bristol to sort of the actual fetish scene um then became two socials and and that as well understanding that they done a social event so got quite involved really in Bristol with the social environment um or with the other fetish guys um separate events that we would go sort of through to and enjoy that social element as well as sort of the play um element um on it and even sort of um on different events that um started sort of springing up across the city then Bristol on one of them we went to was uh done a class and to teach you how to um do bondage and and what have you as well was always um quite interesting seeing a lot of different styles and types of fetish play um into breath control and again the sort of guys in various different fetishes rubber um lycra sportswear um leather um started to start to see some um packs um coming on board as as well in that sort of um period of time um happening in in in Bristol yes what did you what did you discover about yourself in that situation as for me it was really that exploring the actual sort of what I enjoyed um in fetish and the actual sort of reality of well this is really who I am um I'm much more into this play um I like a little bit of variety I like to um try stuff new and um that is really understanding really um exactly the sort of things I was comfortable with and the play that I wanted to get involved um into but also it grew I think there in sort of for myself is wanting to really be much more involved in the LGBT um sort of scene as well um and there it prompted me um to open an LGBT and business secure in Cardiff um I had a sauna and gym and that had that for a short period of time it just didn't really um take off but it was that actual sort of thinking I wanted to give something to um the sort of LGBT community as well so um became a businessman um in the sort of um scene here in Cardiff why did you choose a sauna and gym as opposed to another business we only had one um sauna um here in the city and it wasn't always where people wanted to to go so exploring um just felt and doing sort of speaking with other sort of venues and and that around the UK at the saunas was felt that it was something to branch out into um I think the combination of the balls just wasn't sort of um the right concept um at the time um but again it was the sort of um ability to offer something different you said it only lasted a short time yes so again um I was still working full time my partner time was running the business um but again sort of finances and all of that um if you've got sort of little coming in a lot going out is that balancing with the business and the right we decided then um to sort of move on and sort of do um something um completely unrelated then what did you ultimately do so um as I said I was continued working uh I do now is doing the same job I've been in so similar same employer um for 20 years um and that so my partner then went more into um back into his um sort of stream of work in being a engineer so went back into engineering um and that so is where then things went on from from there tell us how your journey in the leather community continued so for me it then in Bristol continued um picking back up um there in being involved in the scene uh and that in in Bristol and with it is being sort of involved with sort of a little bit with Leather West um at the time they um created the group a few guys um and we had nothing in Wales Wales there'd never been any sort of fetish or leather or anything like that club or scene at all it here in Wales everything was um geared in in Bristol and compared I mean Bristol's only what 45 minutes away um by car um sort of from Cardiff it's quite easy to um get a car or the people and head over yes so we would quite regularly just journey over to to Bristol and start again involved in the um scene then being sort of um going to Darklands in Antwerp and what have you with uh Leather West um being on their stand and talking about sort of leather um sort of fetish and what have you then they sort of um done a Mr Leather West um competition and I was thinking do I stand for it do I not decided um to actually enter into the uh Mr Leather West um competition and on the evening there was five contestants and um I then became the first um runner up um of that actual competition over that period of time um 2015 into 2016 um it became knowledge um here in the UK that the practices really of Leather West wasn't fully sort of um what we really knew and understood that the title of Mr Leather UK they had gone and trademarked it back in 2013 and um with that they started to say that they had ownership of this title and it was being run in London um and that and this became sort of that title uh a period time really where um it caused a lot of um upset and actually sort of the groups just didn't like um and want to be associated really with Leather West at all so with it again in the build up we had events sort of starting then um in Cardiff um as Leather social started and with that we decided that we wanted to do a lot more here in Cardiff um be in the capital of Wales um there'd been nothing most of the guys that would head over to Bristol were here um in Wales out of the five guys that entered into Mr Leather West um the actual four of them were here from here in south Wales um so with that there was a core of um Leather fetish guys um really here in in in Wales and we number of us decided at the time we wanted to do a lot more um and the Leather social grew we started then to go into the pride parade um here in Cardiff and that started attracting a lot more people into the um city and wanting events so from that natural venue the Eagle bar in Cardiff they decided um that they wanted a Mr Leather Wales um in 2016 and I wasn't really going to enter into the competition and on the actual weekend they were holding it I was at um a wedding um up in Yorkshire um about four and a half hour drive away from Cardiff and we were asked by the um husband of um our friend who um sort of was getting married he asked if we would stay on the Sunday because he had a surprise for his partner and they were um an helicopter was going to land in a hotel to take them off on their honeymoon so we waited until lunch time just after lunch for all of this to happen and whereas time was getting sort of tight and we were thinking okay we're head back home but we my partner and I at the time we discussed on the way back we had Leathers with us and we decided to call into the services change into our Leathers and head to the actual social event um that was happening and the Mr Leather Wales competition when I was there the proprietor who I knew quite well from my days of um having the LGBT business and that I knew quite well and the socials and all of that just came on to me and said well Rich why don't you um stand for Mr Leather Wales so I am then I decided okay give me the application form and just filled it out briefly and handed it in and there was five of us who sort of then stood for Mr Leather Wales in 2016 and with it I always had this passion I wanted to do something here in Wales with the Leather Fetish community so I didn't really think much of it um I went through the competition and then the sort of time for the results to be announced and there on that night being announced the winner um the first Mr Leather Wales so for me it was then okay what do I do I've got a title what does that mean my desire I want to see more happen so over that year um it challenged me um in many different ways um being in work um I wasn't really out in work so in the August of 2016 I led um at the front of Cardiff Pride and I was thinking well if you can do that why aren't you the same in work and decided to actually be open and honest about my sexuality to my work colleagues and became then the um in early 2017 the actual sort of LGBT staff network lead for for Wales for my organisation and again grew um the biggest staff organisation for our sort of staff network for our organisation here in Wales myself and a colleague of mine and that really sort of helped me sort of on sort of my journey really being and doing stuff in Wales but then there was as I said there was no club or nothing here um I'd been involved with the bike and scene as well with my partner at the time the gay bike and scene in in the UK I decided then I wanted to start a leather fetish club here so I sat down talked her over with a couple of the other guys and decided it was the right thing really to do so I started the actual Leatherman come comeery and with that in 20 late 2016 2017 is where we seen the birth of the actual sort of Leather fetish club and with that then all over the period of time go into different events across the UK and into Europe is then the understanding that there are other clubs out there there are other leather fetish clubs who are part of the ECMC the European Confederation of Motorcycle Clubs so explore started to explore during my title year the other clubs touring the both the UK and into Europe as a a mister and then serve the desire to take the club into being something connected to something bigger a bigger family of our leather fetish community so with that it started the actual application process to become a full member club of the ECMC tell us more about that how how do you do that so first off you have to state to the actual organization that you are a club that you have members you have the constitution and that you are holding events you're operational so you the sort of at the time when the other guys went to their AGM event it was held that that year in Amsterdam declared that we are a club in here in Wales we started it we have members we have a constitution and then sort of over that year is you then constantly through trying to build the actual club and then you need to apply for probationary membership as a club so I went and to Paris to the AGM in Paris and presented the club to the members the member clubs of the ECMC and with it so just showcasing what we had done and during that year as a club we made a big stand that you're against a backlash that we had here in Wales where we had a pride event tell us that we weren't welcome as leather and fetish men after their pride and we have to remind them that what pride was about and the support that we gained across the world really was astronomical and even we had a member of our parliament our UK parliament stand up in the the chamber in Westminster to say that this had happened in his constituency and that he was supportive of us being involved in pride and what pride was truly about and I never dreamt at all that we would have that influence even within the UK parliament as a group when we started but then from that we went on then in Italy in 2019 to then apply for full membership so you continue on and you apply for full membership it goes to the clubs of the ECMC to then vote you in to be a full member club as well and yeah I'm pleased to say as you can see we are now full members of the ECMC and we sort of have now gone on to support other clubs Leathermen of Scotland to come into the ECMC and we work very closely with them so it's good to that we are seeing really clubs leather fetish clubs starting to come back really here in the UK and for a long time we were starting seeing sort of clubs closed older guys in the clubs the clubs were dying and out but we are starting to see the change we now have sort of four sort of ECMC member clubs and we are working with other groups in the UK to become members of the ECMC and also as a sort of smaller groups to think about where they are when they are meeting is being sort of a true member club not just an events organisation we have in the UK from numerous cities where they just have event organisations are not truly a member club and this is where we are wanting to really bring back that sort of essence of belonging to something actually sort of being able to enjoy the fellowship and friendship that we have as being sort of part of a actual leather fetish club what do you think has caused this resurgence I think some of it is that we have very segregated groups I think in the especially here in the UK we have a lot the sort of we have the leather groups we have those who are into their rubber with rubber groups we have the pups who are in pups groups we don't have them actually really integrated with each other very few events where they actually sort of combine some of these events and some of these older clubs I think for some of the younger community members of our community I think they see us as being old they're not relevant they're not up to date and don't attract to them and therefore I think sometimes the happy scene has actually sort of been much more attractive to the actual sort of younger element I think it's sometimes the play element and sometimes the costing as well around it and I think that is sort of for us to have I think a much I would like to see some of these groups come together and work together a little more in holding events that are for everyone in fetish and not just sort of okay the leather guys have theirs the pups have their events and the rubber guys have theirs that we actually work together to bring about an all fetish event that allows everyone to come together and enjoy whatever fetish they're into what is your current membership so currently we have around 50 members to the club so we're not a big club we don't expect to be being what three million adults in in Wales we don't expect to have a big club here we're not gone out for that we just want to be sort of a community that work together and actually support one another and have events that we can actually sort of go out to in our leather or fetish where we want to be able to give people that ability to come out in in their fetish are you succeeding in being able to do that we are we have started different events here in Cardiff we've gone into Swansea as well our second city here in Wales and again it's that sort of bit by bit growing the club and seeing new people come on board and again on the our sort of club website we sort of show a film called the lives of a Leatherman and that came about because of a student who was from studying here in Cardiff was in Europe spoke to and Kate I'll stumble across really the Mr Leather Europe at the time Joor King and had a conversation with him about sort of leather and fetish and in his studies he needed to create a film about something and it was an idea for him to actually then create and sort of and do an interview about the leather community so for that was a real sort of ability to showcase really what a life of Leatherman is we had a younger lad coming into sort of the fetish scene we had we know as Daddy Ian here in the UK from Manchester talk about his experience as an older leather guy and what that meant to him and the changes that he'd seen all over the period of time and myself as a Mr what does that mean where does it all come from and bit by bit is we've started to see the community here in Cardiff grow we're now seeing we have a vibrant puppy community here we have a rubber community is just starting to take off here and our clubbers started to sort of appear here for our rubber sort of friends as well and also we started to sort of see our events are becoming much more popular and then they were much more attendance at our social events in Cardiff and again sort of working to actually sort of branch out to everyone really of all ages and that is what is I quite enjoy is seeing that we do have people attending of all ages and they if they have leather if they don't have leather they welcome to the social and again for me is the importance really of our attraction is do we only welcome people in if they've got certain leather or again do they look in a certain way and myself I just sort of went on the route of anyone is welcome if you've got leather or not you're welcome to our social and we had one guy who came to the social for at least a year or more did never never ever wore leather at all we turned up one day at the social and he just completely surprised us in wearing some biker leather at the had actually been able to afford to buy and turned up with his bag changed in the venue then unchanged and walked back to Gays Basso and over the period of time we suddenly started seeing that he would he had a bit more leather and then he would sort of walk through then out of the venue in a little bit of leather to the point of now he gets on the bus full leathers comes to the actual sort of social walks through Cardiff back home in his full leathers and is that nurturing as well of people like that to explore really what they are feeling comfortable in as well and it gives me the great pleasure when I've been able to see members of our community who are into rubber or into sort of leather or actually explore that being able to come and ask us the questions and have the advice and on what have you as well when we were preparing for this interview you mentioned that there's been some difficulty among the various factions in the UK would you tell us a little bit about that please so as I said I mean the actual sort of title of Mr Leather UK that argument and discussion really has not gone away only quite recently have we started to have that conversation again here in the UK about the actual title and the name of that title we don't see it really from Wales we have our own Mr we don't see Mr Leather UK really represents our people here in Wales speaking with our friends of Leatherman Scotland they were feeling the same it just didn't represent them either so the organising company that owns the title of Mr Leather UK went out for consultation a public consultation on the actual title and as clubs we wanted to have a discussion with the organising company and on it we made our point very clear that from Wales we wouldn't get involved in the title of Mr Leather UK Scotland as I said we're feeling the same as us we see it more a title of Mr Leather England when we've looked at the history of the people who have won Mr Leather UK actually they've represented England quite a lot of the time it has been held in England London Bristol Birmingham it really hasn't come from that so we are sort of still this sort of point of okay we haven't fully stepped back but at the moment we said at this time we won't be getting involved and again for Ireland being part of the United Kingdom is the same thing we can never and I mean I may be wrong but I can't see someone from Ireland actually wearing a Mr Leather UK sash I think from Northern Ireland they sort of look to the Republic of Ireland and do a lot with them down in Dublin and with Leatherman of Ireland and again we think that they would want to wear Mr Leather Ireland sash rather than someone from Northern Ireland wearing a Mr Leather UK and it's the same a little bit pure in Wales we do have people especially in West Wales and North Wales would be unlikely to want to wear a Mr Leather UK sash they will be very happy in wearing a Mr Leather Wales because that is who they represent that is where their heart is and that is what we are seeing here at the moment here in the UK is that the sort of title of Mr Leather UK we think should really be known as Mr Leather England and also we have as I said previously we have a lot of organisations that do events and they aren't got any membership to them at all and there's a still a lot of discussion around that what we have found is some of these companies have gone ahead and trademarked certain titles here in the UK so for us in Wales we can't really run a Mr Puppy Wales because the word Mr Puppy is trademarked here and that really to me is what are we trying to sort of gain from trademarking titles who really owns a title we've always declared the ownership of Mr Leather Wales it's not the Eagle it's not Leatherman Cymru it is the actual Leather community themselves they're the people that select the person that they feel should be their ambassador and therefore I think that is where really the title should be and continue to be no matter then who wants to actually and run that actual competition so there's still a lot of debate and discussion going on around some of the actual sort of organisation and that of different titles here in the UK. Do you think you'll succeed with the Mr Leather England shift? We hope so we are still working with it and with different groups London Leatherman, Manchester Leatherman, Leatherman South there's also a group in Leeds and a group in Birmingham that are starting to sort of develop there and we're hoping that is where they truly will see that really England need their own title yes I'd be happy if they wanted to be still known as Mr Leather UK but the actual sort of underneath that what it represents really are the Leather guys fetish guys in England rather than from the other countries or that make up the United Kingdom Where do you see Leatherman Camry in about five to ten years? So for me is where I want to see it go and grow is being able to meet really sort of all fetish really across both sort of the gay lesbian trans and all of that I mean for me I'd go back to sort of Swansea pride in 2019 as a group Leatherman Camry we were in the parade we had a stand at the actual sort of pride event and myself and my partner we were walking around I had my leathers full leathers and that on and just stumbled across a health stand that were there at the event and I went through hats as I said and I also in were on the lead for our staff network here in Wales so started to engage and talk to a group of trans men on one of the stands and got to find out that they were actually boot plaques oh and for me it was that thinking why do I not know about you they were from West Wales and and that I hadn't heard or knew about them at all they'd never been to any of our events and they never knew anything about us they knew nothing about the fetish and leather community within the LGBT sort of network or on sort of community at all and realizing that they were going to straight events straight fetish events in Swansea and south Wales and from that is that ability to have that discussion about the different events through Darklands in Antwerp and knowing there they just had boot black Europe competition that year and was able to share some of that with the the two guys from Downing West Wales and talking to and some of you may have already seen Alastair was one of the actual surf guys that was on the stand and sharing really about boot black and I'd seen it around in different events in London and across in Europe but not here in Wales and from that is where then Alastair went to Darklands and became boot black Europe and that for me is where I want to see the club grow in people understanding what our community here in Wales we have what interest people have the ability to come and fellowship and enjoy the social element of things and see and that grow people being who they want to be and the freedom to be able to do what they want to do here in Wales we're very restricted on play in LGBT venues and bars and what have you we are not allowed to do any of that we can't have that in our bars and therefore we don't have a safe environment for people to really play in and that is something really I want to see happen the change happen that we can have safe spaces here in Wales where people can come and actually explore their fetish like I did when I stumbled across the bar in Bristol and see in the play and knowing it's a safe environment to be able to explore and understand really and have the knowledge passed on to me on what is safe play how to play correctly that is what I want to be able to see happen here and working with Eagle Bar to see what we can do in the future in being able to offer really some form of safe space for people to actually come and explore really their fetish in an environment that they feel comfortable in and are able to actually then explore it how about a private dungeon space yeah it could well be is sort of having like I know in London they do have that compared to other major cities in the UK we seem to be quite a way back here in Wales on the ability to allow that to happen and it is that challenging of our local authority to be able to offer some of these spaces so it could well be a private dungeon space we have tried events in different venues I think people like the social element as well as the play element so trying to get that balance really or an environment that people feel comfortable in that they can explore and that is I think having it in a bar maybe a better environment but again I'd say a dungeon space could well be that perfect sort of opportunity to hold something in what advice can you afford people who are new to the community I think for me is do not be put off really by how harsh some of the actual sort of look of things are when you first encounter it go and explore for yourself don't be put off but to play safe gain the advice from those who are doing this play learn from them I think is a real sort of key element on some of this is there's a vast amount of knowledge that lots of people have who are willing to share that with you and get go and explore and enjoy the life freely or fetish how do you want to be remembered by your community for me is what I want to be remembered for is yeah when he stood up on that stage as Mr Leather Wales competition and he said he wanted to see the change and leave a legacy or fetish here in Wales that is what I'd love them to remember me by what's the biggest misconception about you I think for me a lot of people find me quiet and that really I don't get involved in things I may be a little bit standoffish as far as what they may see but if they really get to know me then they'll see a completely different side to myself yeah I may be someone who is a perfectionist and want things done right but I got a true heart behind it in wanting to see the best for our community and wanted to really be something that will last for years and years to come Richard Leather thank you for an amazing year for Inside Leather History a fireside chat thank you Doug