 Industrialisation, CO2-Levers in der Atmosphäre, wir sind ziemlich stabil, aber wir haben nur einen erhöhten Sinn. Unser nächster Speaker, Sebastian Pischl, erklärt uns viele Art und Weise, wie wir diesen colorless und odorless Gas beherrschen. Willkommen zu den Städten, Sebastian. Ja, dann... Hallo, R.C. Freen. Mir hat leider mein... Ich bin zufrieden mit meinem Operating-System, ich habe meine Präsentation ein bisschen korruptiert, so dass es ein bisschen rougher wird als geplant, aber... Damit wird das auch... Ich bin sicher, dass das appropriately chaotisch wird. Also, es geht um den Carbon-Dioxide. Einige Vorträge haben mir so wo... Viele Gespräche haben den Thema Carbon-Dioxide mit Klimat heating, aber auch mit den Coronacrisen. Und ich würde euch mehr über die Hintergrunds- und vielleicht auch über den Bridge zu geben, die für einen Maker interessiert sind, der in der Hardware und den scientifischen Hintergrunds interessiert ist. Ihr könnt hier einen ziemlich großen Device sehen und ein Pictogramm für einen ziemlich kleinen Device. Und ich werde euch zeigen, was sie in Ordnung haben. Warum möchtest du Carbon-Dioxide anyway? Man möchte sich... Man möchte sehen, wie unser Klima sich entwickeln will. Man möchte den Kontroll- und Kontroll-Ambann in Grünhausen, Artificial Ventilation oder Kontroll-Ventilation, man might need to control gas-Levels in the air. Man would probably want to check the exhaust of industrial machines, and in mining you need to check if there are dangerous Carbon-Dioxide-Levels, but also brewing vehicle, CO2, and it can be dangerous if that accumulates in the cellar. Where do we find Carbon-Dioxide in everyday life? We know it in soda. It's the product of all burning processes. It's present in all exhaust. Ist für uns Nerds natürlich wichtig, die wenigsten trinken. A few of us nerds probably drink decaffeinated coffee, but Carbon-Dioxide is used to extract caffeine from coffee beans. We see dry ice in the lower right corner. It's been in the media a lot, because it's needed to cool the mRNA vaccine. It's also needed for pouring drinks, but it's also limited in baking powder. Another place, where Carbon-Dioxide plays a role, is quite massively in our oceans. A large part of Carbon-Dioxide isn't in the atmosphere. It's bound in a balance in our waters. It's partly gaseous Carbon-Dioxide, but also dissolved in waters and in shells, in fact. The fact that we don't see the levels of Carbon-Dioxide in the atmosphere that we would expect to see is because a lot of that is buffered in the oceans. I need to jump a bit ahead in my slides. The humans are interested in not breathing too much Carbon-Dioxide, because you can actually suffer toxic effects from it. Kriege, oder hat man im Endeffekt das gleiche Ergebnis? You would see a similar effect, as you might find in one of these carbonators that you have to create carbonated water in your kitchen. A similar thing happens in the oceans. You essentially get carbonic acid in the ocean and it inverts this balance and it dissolves the seashells. This is going to be a large problem in future, in fact. But what about traffic light? Humans breathe in and breathe out air. That's 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, about 0.5% Carbon-Dioxide and we breathe out 17% Oxygen, several percent of Carbon-Dioxide and water vapor. And of course, as we learned this year, aerosols. So small particles that are suspended in the air, usually small droplets. And the idea is that if a human is infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus while they are exhaling Carbon-Dioxide and the virus und den noch genannten flüchtigen organischen Verbinden why you can use Carbon-Dioxide or some other particles in the air because you can't actually show the virus in the air. But let's get back to the image I showed you in the start. This large instrument is the Mauna Loa Observatorium which is on a mountain in Hawaii in 4000m altitude. And that makes it places in pretty far from sea level and also most clouds that contain water vapor and could therefore make measurings more difficult. The person you see in the upper right corner is Charles Kealing who opened this observatorium in 1953 and was its head for over 50 years. And this curve that you can see here is also called the Kealing curve and it shows the development of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere starting from 1960 all the way to the present day and it's increased by about 100 parts per million. You can see very clearly that there is a yearly cycle and that's the development. And some of you might have noticed this meme on social media where people say I was born at 380 ppm or something and this refers to this curve which places certain ppm levels in certain years. This doesn't look dreadful but if we actually zoom out a bit on the time axis we can see that all the way at the right edge there's a line that is essentially vertical and that's the Kealing curve that I've just shown you. This zigzag line that goes up and down these are measurements taken from ice cores and that's how we can see how carbon dioxide levels changed in the atmosphere over the past 800.000 years. So it has always been changing but at one of the peaks of this curve we actually got industrialisation and the levels went up. This isn't being measured just by this observatorium but also by satellites that watch the atmosphere from space but how does this actually work? So, the crucial element is the sun, of course. Let's get to the topic of spectra scoping. So, the upper left, there is a source of light which is sent through a prism and using a receiver you can serve the spectral components of the source of energy, of light. Depending on how the rainbow pattern is shifted you can look at different colours in this spectrum. So, if you analyse this on the left hand side you have a halogen light source. The light passes through a small grid which is then separating the spectrum and you have a receiver and an amplifier which gives you the spectrum as shown here. If you do the same thing with sunlight you will get approximately this kind of pattern from the physics lessons at school you might remember the black body radiation and this also fits quite well with the sunlight spectrum which is the orange image here in the diagram. So, if you do the same thing at ground level you notice that there are certain gaps in the spectrum. These are caused by absorption in the atmosphere. A lot of this is water vapor and what we are interested in, carbon dioxide is a bit further to the right in the infrared area. So, the rainbow here of the visible light is the near infrared and the far infrared and we are changing amplitudes. So, this is showing here an increased section of the wavelength. So, just the far infrared on the far left you can see wavelength areas which you might know from fiber optics or CD players where the wavelength is a few micrometers and to the right on the x-axis the wavelength is increasing. At the top you can see the CO2 molecule which is a linear molecule similar like three parts on the pyrochain. If you look at them closely they can be energized and start to vibrate in a certain way. So, on the top left is a symmetric oscillation. So, this one does not absorb infrared in so-called Raman spectrum. So, this is something for molecular vibrations spectroscopy which is not so important right now. The interesting thing is the asymmetric oscillation on the top right and this is the high peak at approximately 4.5 micrometers in the diagram below which is quite invisible on the left-hand side. The two oscillations at the bottom they occur when the molecule is looking like a boomerang and this is seen on the right-hand side of the diagram. This is actually quite hard to detect whereas this 4.5 micrometer is relatively easy to detect. So, now let's talk about the sensors. I would like to concentrate on the ones that are most common. Not dispersive infrared sensors. So, non-dispersive here means just a notice version that is emphasized so as basically a white light which hits the probe and it is not sorted by wavelength by being passed through a prism or something like that. A second type of metal oxide-based sensors ist das Schlüsselwort MEMS which is known as MENS micro-mechanik we have engineered micro-systems that means there is manufacturing technology mit denen dann eben so was zuerst wurden Beschleunigungs-Sensoren damit gebaut und die werden eben aus den Methoden verwendet. Wir haben z.B. verschiedene CO2-Sensoren und der dritte ist ein Fotoklustik-Methode das ist im Prinzip dass man diese Schwingung durch einen kurzen Lichtpuls hat und das ist ein Lichtwarnung dass Air durch geht und man kann das hier sehen und mit dem Mikrofon man kann das hier hinsetzen die Konzentration der CO2 ist dann der Lauter der CO2 also ein Infrared ja wir wissen das von den remote-Sensoren leider nicht hier rechts nochmal das Spektrum mit Infrared von den remote-Sensoren leider es ist konzentriert in den red-Spektrum und es ist nicht langweilig und es ist nicht lange genug für uns zu measuren hier so dann ist hier so z.B. ein Teil hier ist ein Teil der broken Präsentation, es sollte hier ein paar mehr Sensoren sein dieses golde ist metallisch ein Proben-Kamera und ein Sensor die meisten die meisten Sensoren sind ziemlich ähnlich zu diesem Teil es ist ein Sampling-Chamber hier habe ich tatsächlich mal von jemandem gefunden diese sind verschiedene Sensoren die Leute haben hier gebaut da sieht man tatsächlich die kleinen Weiß die kleinen kleine Weiß das kleine Weiß-Zirkel und ein bisschen links es ist ein Sample und dann haben wir den Infrared-Sensor hier nach links und es ist in einem Gold-Hausen-Unit einmal im Zickzack geschickt und wir haben ein Weiß-Window über es das Gas wird durchgelegt in den Luft dann hast du einen Transmitting-Sensor mit dem Luft der zweite und das ist ein Prototyp-Picture der Sensor ist links unter und ich fürchte ja die ganze Sektion mit den Metalloxid-Sensoren dann kurz frei im Prinzip ist der Metal-Oxide-Sensor also wie der Name schon sagt Metalloxid ein metalloxidischer Halbleiter der auf einer Dünnschicht auf der Fläche kann sich dann verschiedene Differenz von dem Luft und dann kannst du es reagieren zum Beispiel Carbon-Minoxide reagiert zu den Oxygen und dann Carbon-Minoxide zu oxidisieren wenn man so etwas hat wie Stick-Oxy zum Beispiel man hat auch die Casin-Auto-Emissions man hat also Nitrous-Oxides und dann man hat auch eine Reaktion man hat das in der Unter-Picture dieses kleine silbrige Kästchen also ungefähr wir haben etwa 2 oder 3 mm sowohl dieser Sensor drin als eben ein kleiner Microcontroller man kann die Values sehen und es kann kontrolliert werden ich habe auch ein kleiner Heating-Element wenn diese Fläche mit reaktiven Elementen darauf abgelagert haben kleben geblieben sind quasi dann müssen die da ja wieder runter ansonsten hat sich die Leitfähigkeit für den Sensor für den Sensor zu akkommodieren man möchte ja auch und dann in short notice give out different measurements again dann es gibt verschiedene Reaktionen processes and then afterwards you could do new measurements again so good ja dann this is all of the photo acoustic process das ist tatsächlich noch nicht so richtig marktreif ist relativ oder zumindest relativ a small measuring principle with that die Sensors are about as big as a sugar waffle on a small plate you can also think it as an EST module die eben den Sensor so you're combining it with electronics und davon habe ich an zwei Firmen mal gefragt ob i've asked about the status of this about the different prototypes and they're not on the market yet they're just prototypes ja wie gesagt im Prinzip her ist das eben auch dass man ein you have an infrared light source man kann im Prinzip im Labor auch you can also use a photo pulse und schießt an ein Lichtblitz and you're shooting a light onto the gas that you want to test und hat tatsächlich einfach und then you need a really sensitive microphone and then also a loudspeaker so das heißt damit ist das kurzfristig und etwas holprig geworden was ich tatsächlich habe aber ich konnte auch nicht kurzfristig in der short notice zu haben all of these different sensors to build together with one sensor und z.B. aus einer CO2 vom CO2 um have a bit of a measurement situation mal you could have a lighter and then produce something by letting it and have a combustion aber stellt sich raus but in the global pandemic there's different problems and it's not so easy to convince people that CO2 traffic lights are really important right now so it could be another project and then there would be another talk about it and I will go now to questions and answers and I think that we have about 10 minutes left for this ja, haben wir erstmal trotz der technischen thank you anyway from we have the technical issues but thank you anyway ich fange mal an mit we're starting on with the question so would the slides be available for download first question yes I have a lot of material links relevant data sheets and it's really irritating that all of that went up and smoked at least when I compared the presentation but I think I'm not going to have a lot of work in January so ja can you tell us maybe and explain how these sensors are calibrated how this is done how often should it be done that's a great question these IR sensors that use infrared light are an absolute method of measuring so you know all the necessary numbers of the gases involved so all you need is the geometry of the measuring chamber but also unfortunately semiconductors tend to degrade over time and tend to break so you have to calibrate away those parts but the physics don't change these metal oxide sensors are tricky because it's constantly changing and as I showed you the cardio batch zum Beispiel the microcontroller has a calibration algorithm built in and it works as it says in the data sheet by letting it run for 24 hours and it automatically assumes that it gets fresh air with about 400 ppm of carbon dioxide and that's how it calibrates itself and in the background it does a sort of automatic calibration but of course it's not solely calibrating itself to carbon dioxide because as I said well I didn't actually state it explicitly but these metal oxide sensors are essentially blind to carbon dioxide they can measure carbon monoxide organic compounds of the kind that we humans breathe out and then they take a different approach or detour to measure carbon dioxide and to they make additional assumptions so there's a lot of estimations involved so you have to check what you are measuring and how exact your measurements are going to be ok, thanks a lot do you think it's a good strategy to distribute a lot of these sensors in different places like public spaces doctor practices to measure the transmission of CO2 viruses well sensors can't lower CO2 levels I think it's more a political question than a technological one I've been thinking a lot about this during the past author and of course in the I've been philosophising with some chaos friends of how you can do that but of course the question is how you would use this and how you would maintain it it's a matter of cost as well and I also heard that some ambitious teachers are installing these carbon dioxide traffic lights in their school and the principle wasn't terribly happy with that and would rather not see them so we need to maintain the infrastructure in the background to fix defects we need to analyse the data which is a lot of work and I'm not sure if that is socially manageable I'm not sure but I'm afraid it's not going to have a huge impact at least not for society at large which of the different sensors is most easy to connect to also an Arduino es gibt auch wenn man tatsächlich so ein Sensor wenn man dieses System sich selbst kann man eigentlich den naked Sensor und measure its analog values aber ich denke nicht dass das der Effekt ist wenn man dieses System bauen möchte ist es ziemlich leicht wenn man weiß was man macht mit einem Arduino Dankeschön wir haben ein bisschen mehr Zeit also wenn Sie Fragen haben Sie können uns fragen mit either IRC oder mit Twitter Fettiverse mit Hashtag IRC 3 1 Richard CSR 3 01 O&E was ist das gefährliche Level von CO2? da könnte ich ich könnte auf dieses Topik auf dieses Subjekt sehen lassen wo ist der Mensch da ist er genau also die Zahlen sind mehrere % 1 % sind 1.000 ppm das sind 1.000 Parts per Millium 1 % 10.000 ppm ich meine 1.000 ppm 10.000 ppm 1.000 ppm 1.000 ppm 1.000 ppm Parts per Millium das ist 25 x 6 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 Das ist, was ich von den Parteien hörte, aber es ist ziemlich schnell, um die Levels zu bekommen. Aber wenn es startet, um gefährlich zu bekommen, muss man wirklich einen Doktor fragen. Ich denke, du bist unruhig, um diese Levels in der täglichen Zeit zu schützen, wo du dich accidentally in eine gefährliche Zone bekommen würdest. Was ist ein guter Sensor für CO2-Maschinen? Das ist die Frage, die ich mit der Experimente ansprechen würde. Ich bin nicht sehr konvinzt, ob alle Sensor-Maschinen eigentlich ihre Promis haben. Ich habe diese Sensor-Maschinen nicht geschafft, meine Hand auf sie zu bekommen, aber ich kann sie nicht wirklich nachdenken. Ich würde sagen, dass die Assumption ist, wenn ein Mensch Infektions-Maschinen, und mit zwei Virus-Maschinen verabschiedet ist. Das betrifft die Volatilogramme, die sie exhalieren. Das ist die erste Assumption, weil viele Menschen, die nicht infektiös sind, aber trotzdem CO2-Maschinen und Menschen exhalieren. Das ist schon mal, wenn man auf diese Infektionsvoraussage möchte, ist das schon mal eine Sache, die man... Das ist die erste Assumption, die man machen muss. Und wie gesagt, die Dataschienen dieser Sensor-Maschinen sind manchmal schon... ...specifiziert, dass sie eigentlich... Die Messerungen können rauf sein, und sie sind nur zu ca. 1.000 Parts per Million. Also, das ist eigentlich ganz gut. Die Carbon-Darkseid-Traffic-Leid ist eine ziemlich gute... ...eine ziemlich gute Art, um das zu zeigen. Man kann das so zeigen, dass es red oder grün ist, aber man kann nicht alle die Farben verwenden. Aber man kann das natürlich nicht von Sensoren, die 10 oder 20 Euro kosten. Also, der beste Sensor ist wahrscheinlich der, den man auf die Hand bekommt. Also, wo sollten dann CO2-Maschinen am besten in den Räumen sein? Wenn du sie in die Dörfer benutzt, wo soll diese Sensoren geplastet werden? Eine andere gute Frage, weil die Assumption ist, dass die Carbon-Darkseid-Konzentration ist equal throughout your room. Carbon-Darkseid ist heavier than the rest of the air, so it tends to gather towards the floor. You have a concentration gradient from lowest ceiling to highest at the floor. But the air you exhale is warm. It's lighter than the rest of the air and goes towards the ceiling. Some of you may have heard of the Hunzkotte, where actually the stones are leaking Carbon-Darkseid, which then gathers at the floor and has apparently called the death of several dogs. So these two effects where Carbon-Darkseid tends to sink to the floor and warm air tends to rise up. They influence each other. You have these vortices. Then if you open a window to ventilate the room, that also is causing vortices. That means that at the end of the day I don't know. It would be interesting to find out and to measure this, but to do that you'd need a lot of sensors. And then you'd need to take a classroom and place several dozens of sensors strategically throughout the room. Take measurements, show these measurements about time and then you would get a nice diagram. And that would allow you to answer the question. Muss ich auch da sagen, kann ich nicht sicher sagen. And if there is a space where just no mechanical ventilation or air conditioning how can we ventilate such a room most effectively? Also, na ja. Ventilating without access to the outside air is difficult. Gibt es an Beispiel U-Boat? For instance, when you think about submarines or something like that. I'm not an expert on submarines at all. I can only imagine that they... irgendwie so-na-so-na-faltbar. ...that you would use hoses that you can fold up. To know that you have those aluminum spirals which can be extended or maybe something like the pipes used in the Silk Road which you could place in a room and then actually attach a vacuum cleaner and just suck the air through this pipe or pipe in new air. I think this new needs creative hacking approaches because if it wasn't thought of during construction it's going to be difficult. But of course this is an area where it would make sense to have this kind of traffic light that would tell you, alright, where the air has got so bad that you actually need to take a measure now. Gibt es einen Effekt von Pflanzen? Ist es einen Effekt von Pflanzen in Dörfern? Bestimmt. Probabli. Certainly. I saw projects that wanted to test this, but I'm not sure if that actually... if they actually were able to analyze their data, but as far as plants actually bind carbon dioxide and turn it into oxygen, well, there are plants that do that more quickly and more effectively depending on how much light they get. That is another component. Und dann müsste man sich wahrscheinlich so... ...you need to have a jungle in your room? No, that's a good question. I think, I would say find out. Go and find out. That's unfortunately the question that you often have to give when you can't say something more exact. Somebody has to take the first step. Okay, last question. Can you maybe explain in more detail how do you ensure that the sensor is correctly calibrated? I can't really say anything about the cardio badge here. I noticed that the firmware has been reaching a state where the sensor can be read completely over the past month. And it's worth having a look at the page of the cardio badge cardio.ive-events.ccc.de and maybe contacting the team, especially getting in touch if you're interested in developing it further. These are programming tasks that still have to be done. There's a datasheet somewhere that tells you how you need to tell the chip what it's supposed to do. And then it'll do that. Und ich glaube, der Stand der Firmware ist, dass man die ersten Messwerte auskommt. Die Firmware ist nun able to take the first measurements and I would recommend getting in touch with Schneider, who is one of the teamleads who actually made the cardio badge. Der ist, unter anderem, at work with exactly this over the past few weeks. So, there are also other gases with different curves. Is there some kind of concept for fusing sensors to increase the accuracy by using multiple different sensors? So, we have different sensors and they have different curves for the gas detection. Is there a concept for using multiple sensors at the same time to increase the accuracy of the measurements? So, we can have different ones and then compare the different outputs from them. With my research from the manufacturers that they've compared things and then their testing and then they're looking at the measurements results and they're looking at equivalents or estimated CO2. These values are already pretty good that are measured from the actual CO2 sensors. Die Voraussetzung ist natürlich immer, oder die Annahme ist immer, dass es tatsächlich auch Menschen für den CO2-Ansatz ist. People are the ones who are responsible for increasing the CO2 because they're exhaling it. For example, it will be interesting for me to test this personally to see what happens to the sensors. It will get the metal oxide sensors and looking at the CO2 sensors. For example, when we have a graph looking at the measurement camera, you can measure it both at the same time. For sensor fusion itself, it could work on it. There are certainly experiments, but I don't know of anything official right now. Okay, ihr könnt uns ... Okay, you can ask us a few more questions. We have a few more questions using IRC, which is linked below. Or using Twitter-Federa, using the hashtag rc31, rc30ne. Is it possible to build a CO2 on a large scale using satellites? Ja, es wird gemacht. Ja, es wird nachgezählt, aber ich glaube schon so zwei Dutzend, mindestens ... There are at least two satellites that are already doing this right now. They have various different types of measurement systems on board. Of course, this is already being done. In so falscher Farben, die CO2-Konzentration ... They are looking at the CO2 concentration on the Earth. Da der CO2 ein sehr richtiger Gas ist ... So CO2 is an important gas for greenhouse emissions and climate change. Do you know perhaps, which processes are responsible for most CO2? Nein. Unfortunatly, ich kann nicht sagen, es ist nicht genau meine Art. Ich habe auch überrascht, dass die, dass z.B. die Mietproduktion hat, eine Influenz, und mehr als ich erwartet habe. Aber ... Das ist so veganer oder vegetarischer ... Wenn man an veganen oder vegetarischen Optionen sieht, könnte es möglich sein, zu reduzieren CO2, aber natürlich auch andere Themen. Was eben auch Kür nennenswärterweise ausschreiten und auch ... Es gibt verschiedene Klimagassen. Methane ist sehr wichtig. Und ... Man kann das mit verschiedenen Measuringstättern, im Prinzip ... Man kann auch das ... Es gibt natürlich auch Global Warming und Climate Change. Und es gibt verschiedene Gassen, die relevant sind, all so schlecht wie andere. Ich glaube, CO2 gehört ... Man kann sich auf die CO2-Aquivalenz schauen. Wie viele Tonnen von Gas X haben die gleichen Effekte wie die CO2 in der Atmosphäre. Und für jedes Gas wird es anders. Was ist dein Background genau? Wie handelst du dich mit CO2 und Measuringstättern? Eigentlich ... war ich ... ich war neugierig in einem letzten Sommer über diese verschiedenen CO2-Traffic-Lades. Und dann begann ich dann, um zu schauen, wie diese Dinge funktionieren. Das ist sehr komisch. Mein Background ... Ich habe eine Diplomatik und eine Chemistik. Ich habe auch eine analytische Chemistik. Und auch die Background-Anregung und Spektrometry, auch eingeworfen. Und dann ist es immer zusammen in der gleichen Studie. Aber das hat ... Das ist warum das mich interessiert. Ich habe mir gedacht, was haben die Manufacturers schon gemacht und was haben sie mit Measuring. Und wie bekommen die Resultate? Und es gibt so viele CO2-Traffic-Lades ... in terms of industrial sensors, they are more precise. Und die wird wahrscheinlich ein Maker nicht mal eben. But you can't buy them if they are so expensive. And then there is no value, if you can't buy these CO2-Traffic-Lades. And then there is no value, if you can't buy these CO2-Traffic-Lades. Okay, so ... working at the gearing curve in the future, we would have to live with a higher level of CO2 in the atmosphere. So, can you say anything about this, what we would be like with, say, about 500 ppm CO2? Okay, so, we would have to live with a higher level of CO2 in the atmosphere. I can't say ... Atmosphären, Umweltswissenschaften, das ist noch mal so ein ganz anderer ... It's a different subject area to study the atmosphere. To say exactly what the results would be and what would happen with this measurement. It's really hard to say. It's really hard to say. Also, in the conference program here, that there's a couple of presentations that are about this. So, those are the right people to ask this question. Okay. Let's just do the answer publicly. What exactly do you want our audience to do? Stay curious. And you can build things. Bother your politicians. I have political anecdotes myself. It's a very difficult topic. For science and technology, you have different methods. You have different methods. And technology, you have different methodologies. You have data. You have an answer. And one lesson from this year. This science and engineers. Data scientists. They have all of this research done. They have done the answers. They have passed on. And they are doing it. That means, these political components. Unfortunately isn't there. And from that I would say, if you actually engage in this topic, disturb you and you want to be active, und du kannst es in diese Richtung machen. Okay, okay. Und siehst, was deine eigene Kapazität und was du konvinzt. Was du die Motivation brauchst. Du kannst andere Menschen inspirieren. Und vielleicht wird es ein Kaskade-Effekt. Also, einfach, einfach. Okay, got it.