 Employers didn't have a way to reward workers because they couldn't wage control. They couldn't they couldn't pay them more So so they're looking around. Well, how can we reward this good guy over here? Oh, well, we'll buy a health insurance So what we do is we have this evolved psychology that's designed for small group living We transplanted it into this weird modern world where we have bureaucracies and other weird shit that's making decisions for us and very big and very big Yeah, and it's it's evolutionally unnatural video would be a point of blockchain if you see Donald Trump sitting on a live thing going I hate Haiti. You're getting it firsthand from there before that We had like news reporters if you want to hear me get super far out on politics. I have seen a system that works It sounds outrageous to say the only system I've ever seen of leadership that works Pretty well the league and when I say pretty well ten times better than ours is Dr. David bus former Harvard professor University of Austin No, Cookman formerly Zach's dad Joel Salatin author speaker visionary sustainable agriculture and a Bunch of food that was decimated by a bunch of hungry people here So for Ken the camera is not here with the word where I stop so Joel What I don't want to put words in your mouth because you're actually here Joel a lot of times I got to be like, you know what Joel would say but Joel's actually here But Joel thinks that you don't think that we can just deconstruct human life and go If we just replicate the neurons in human brains in computers now we've created a human Is that why I mean and the and the very notion that that is doable or even acceptable Doable that's it then again. They're totally different. Yeah, it's a good or acceptable big one Well, I would say neither. Well, is it doable? No, he's saying no. Wow, okay So hey, I think you will be proven wrong in about 70 years. We'll see That's a good argument one of whatever I can't prove myself 75 When we're both dead you'll I'll get the last Be careful about prophecies I mean I grew up in the 70s when I was in high school I remember very well in science class watching movies that by the late 1980s Farmers would simply sit at a console and Everything would be under a dome Environmentally controlled and farmers would simply be punching a console or making robots do stuff We're now whatever 30 40 years past that, you know, we haven't even begun Paul Ehrlich, I remember debating in college and we use Paul Ehrlich all he was this guru biologist that in the 70s was saying that by 1985 there would be no oil and And no species The guy was a total nutcase. Right. I mean it was group proven grossly And so these these kind of discussions are interesting I gotta go home and make happy earthworms and move cows and and create compost Yeah To me to me, it's almost an irrelevant discussion To say whether in 80 years from that way, what are humans going to be doing? I mean, we've never we've never hit it right in the past Why would we be hitting it right now? Let's let's let's instead instead of instead of wasting time on that let's talk about how this How this hotel could serve locally based sustainably grown Hydrologically encouraging earthworm copulating facilitating food. I knew it all boiled on the main I Dr. Bus is an evolutionary psychologist who says all of life basically boiled down the reproduction of me Life on earth and maybe everywhere not inanimate things. He was sexually reproducing species. Yeah. Yeah of which we are one Yeah, yeah, so there's the same thing apply for Things that are asexual that don't have gender Asexual is a different ballgame. I mean, but they're not very successful average, you know, because they don't produce the variation Yes, the issue we were talking about earlier actually Alex was highlighting that you know, that that's the key is sexual reproducing reproduction produces This incredible variation and then selection can then pick the best variants from that very as genetic variability Yeah, so I guess which is extremely which is extremely it has built in Protections that are extremely non-mechanical. Yes, the term Robots meaning the parameters and the environment can change and it would still survive because there's variability Yeah, yeah one core thing though and we're talking about this in the world view Joel is Christian and Alex is zero religion influences. I mean zero thought of God or anything So he doesn't mind reducing human thought to something you could just break it down If you could break it down enough you could rebuild it in the computer Whereas Joel thinks there's some there's a soul that is not replaceable and somehow Goes through the sperm and egg to the next person Right. It's the spark of life. It's like Yeah, but you don't believe it's not here. Does it just pumps blood? If you don't believe there's any soul, you don't think there's no so let me ask you this just So I want to just play I end up now the day's playing middleman here Which Noel thinks I need to take a stand more and everything But I do have a stand, but it's more interesting. I already know my opinion. So I want to hear other people so Why can't we or will we ever be able to create life? From the first spark if there's no because I think Joel that that's like the spark. It's like we can't take a computer Well, I mean, I mean we can't take something dead and Make it alive Why can't we I mean personally I'm yeah, I mean what is already happening genetic splicing We make we take a piece of chromosome turning into a into life all day So are you saying like non biological system like complete in a computer? Yes, yeah, I just it's a matter of understanding the complexities We're not the computers are powerful enough. Yes, that's exactly once they are well be able to do it Yes, and Joel says they'll never They won't be able to It's an interesting bet. I think I'm gonna win that bet bet in 75 years Check back to the show in the podcast in 75 years We will have that we will see when every knee will bow and every tongue confess There it is. We'll see we'll see you right Craig agrees with y'all Yes, I hate another question is as any human being ever exercise free will That has differentiated from the illusion of free will there's the look that's a very That is one of the most fascinating that is hard Sam Harris wrote a book called free will and makes a strong point That humans have no free will Joel this is one that a Christian Can take both sides because oh yeah, there's Christians that are Calvinist stick free will that say there was a whole group The Calvinist that said If you're born going to hell you going to help yeah, and if you're if you were ordained to be a Christian you are so Which was before the modern age of 80s that was before Determinism so what do you think? Let's I want to hear from you too Well, that was my question I texted the Zach earlier. I was like I gotta ask so let's hear doctor That's my question. Do you think free will me human ever exercise free? Is it real or is it an illusion? I? Think it's an illusion. Okay, you know, I mean I mean this gets back to first Cartesian dualism You know the explain that to those of us. Okay, not up to date on our Cartesian dualism must be the little refining. I was sick that day I know I want everybody's faces everybody This is your five-minute tutorial what explain what is Cartesian dualism just the notion that there are these two Separate causal entities one is the physical causal entities that Alex was talking about and there's this other set that is Not physical that's supernatural. Okay, basically that is mystical Spiritual or whatever that we don't understand the cause enough course We don't understand a lot of the causal mechanisms at all But the notion that there are two separate essences in the world I think is pretty much been debunked by modern science. So so yes, I mean we have a brain It's a physical system and it produces the mind And that's what we have is a physical system. So Does that rule out the possibility that there's some other physical process in the universe that we don't know about no it doesn't I mean there could be and probably is but This notion that there are these two separate Causal systems one the physical and the other the non physical Cartesian yeah, yeah, it's Cartesian dualism and so does that go against almost every core Religious belief is long Christianity. I feel like they all Yeah, it goes against a lot of them. I would say all the major one. He's a big three Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, or even into Even an animist Right animist beliefs. So you think so do you think the reason we do stuff and it appears to be free will Or we can't prove it's not free. Well, it's just the science isn't good enough to explain it yet But one day it will be well. Well, no probabilistically so I mean if you just take humans out of the equation in physics You it's not a totally determine exactly round and motion. Yeah, it's Probabilistic so so I was gonna explain it better than I could but yeah, you can predict probabilistically what electrons will do etc Can you predict deterministically exactly what this electron will do under no you can't But it's actually against Heisenberg's principle, right? So you cannot know the Momentum yeah, and location of any particle at the same time. You cannot want them Yeah, it's one of physics like it's gonna be problem probabilistic, but because we cannot reverse time We cannot prove that it's not probabilistic that is a problem So free will be basically we can never settle this argument because we cannot go back in time and Play this simulation game one more time to see if we have different outcome So it will never be prove Alex is a PhD in Not quantum physics, but you know the day. I don't know you're a chemical engineer But he knows who he's talking about it, but I think we can all agree I think everybody here would agree that there is an illusion of free will we all have the illusion That we are deciding at every moment. Oh, okay. I'm gonna decide to do this I'm gonna decide to forego that so we do have the illusion of free will Even if there's free will we have the illusion but he's a thing But if there is only illusion of free will should we be sending people to prison? Let me take a more practical. Yeah, then there's no response. Yeah, you know, see this is that that's that's a fallacy That's a fallacy. Of course, we should because the the act of holding people accountable Accountable for their actions is an environmental Causal force that causes people to be more accountable for their actions So you're saying so by that that says that we will exist as a matter of fact No, no, it's it doesn't say that free will exist It just says there's a causal influence on people's deterministic behavior But let me let me throw a more practical thing for somebody listening. That's not up on their quantum physics Heisenberg Heisenberg principle principle. Yeah, I thought that was breaking bad breaking bad Heisenberg Same guy. So let's say let's here's an example poverty is Is very much related to where you're born Which is outside of your control even if you don't if you believe free will who you're born to your mom if you're born in the inner city or in a very poor part of West Virginia, we can pretty much predict with high accuracy that Much higher chance you're gonna end up in jail or much higher than you're gonna end up in drug with drug addiction alcoholism so should we put people in jail for Selling drugs in inner city because they're a victim of their circumstance. They're a victim of their circumstance Well, well in your opinion, what are your guys? Well, well, so I mean no, it's an interesting question that you raise and I guess my response would be That the decision to sell drugs or take drugs He's talking about my quality. He gets it's determined Okay, so whether it's an environmental Determinant determinant or whether you have a genetic proclivity to that or whether you had parents who beat you or whether you whatever They're a determinant. They're causal factors that created that circumstance. Yes What I'm saying is should you hold people accountable the answer is yes because that creates a set of environmental Circumstances which is one set of causal variables that affects whether people choose to do that or not Yeah, but shouldn't you let's say that's true, but shouldn't you treat people differently? I'll give you an example if you had somebody who's handicapped They can't think through stuff. This is an actual case. I read about I don't remember exactly Was a mother and her handy somewhat handicapped son and but he was like low IQ like 90 IQ Wasn't that smart? She talked her son into helping her kill Her ex-husband or her boyfriend and he did it I feel like justice is you treat him differently because he has an IQ of 90s influenced by the mom You can't see him for the same as a completely cogent person So if we agree on that but if we agree on that you have to agree with that Thank you wrong right then you should agree that people in the inner city who grew up in horrible circumstances Shouldn't go to maximum security prison Happens yeah, and no, I agree. I tell you you have three strikes in California And I just to go on the record. I'm for legalizing all drugs All of now I want to take cocaine blow my brains out. That's my prerogative But we're not gonna have a government welfare program that takes care of me if I'm blowing my brains, right? So there wouldn't be health care for you if you didn't know so do you believe there should be universal health care? No, not at all not government to pay none of the government's Brogdon So who should take care of the elderly in the sick in your opinion? Their families Churches what if they don't have that? What if you have people in poverty and everybody's poverty do you leave them? There's no perfect system this out of a pair of attorney here's the thing I actually fix this I actually feel like if we actually go to your system that you think you're It's like ideal system for you. You will see all these H cases and you would want to create a system to take care of life because we cannot yeah It's called philanthropy. It's called caring. It's called community. It's called all sorts of things that are centralized Our centralized bureaucratic system has has Destroyed what's the difference between by the way on the record? I'm gonna go on record Well, I 100% agree with Joel on this so I've taken a political stance And I'll give you I'm gonna give you a real fax that have been moving over and over it Projects I grew up quite a bit in North Carolina around housing projects Okay, I when I moved in North Carolina We literally moved next door to housing project my bus pickup was in the middle of the housing project And that's how I learned to play basketball all my friends funny. I had two sets of friends I got to know through church like Zach and Rick and these people and then I had these inner city friends that I play basketball with and Those projects Would not they should be burned to the ground and they've done a lot of studies on both sides in New York City when they built These towers my sister my dad's from Harlem. I asked my dad from Harlem and my aunt Who just died at 99 years old? She's been there and she was born in 1917 I think in in Puerto Rico and then came to New York She said when I grew up We were poor, but we didn't know it We had a mom and a dad and she's like we got one pair of clothes a year But we thought everybody did and and then the housing projects came in in the 60s and 70s Which they meant well. Yeah. Yeah, and all sudden you took that away and these things are the work my my sister's husband Works in Harlem and he's like Ty. You have no idea what goes on in this project. He's a painter He's like these are hell holes and people are trapped in it. He doesn't like to talk to people He goes fishing. He's like I work Monday through Friday. He's like, you know, if you guys see get killed This this this so you mean well Yeah, but you ruin everything you can't that's what you what happens with government Right, you give you can't look just at edge cases because what Joel's saying as I agree with if you try to remove All edge cases edge cases being one family that starts with that you end up causing mass poverty for 5,000 other people so somebody has the There's no system war nobody stops to death And take care of the middle of the bill blockchain might be able to do it Well, blockchain makes it all automated and smart contracts and things We're talking about performance driven if there's no as long as there's humans There's people taking kickbacks in the projects. Yeah, I mean is there a good one when there's people and greed And mating which people want status and money. They're stealing from the poor So when you do these governments so we came back to robots making decisions At the end of the day, um, you can't have charity That is based in violence And if you don't pay your taxes see who gets violent So so ultimately all government charity comes at the end of a gun The sheriff They collect taxes. They collect taxes. That's what Joel does. That's what a libertarian So so so so you can't you can't ultimately have charity That that come that is that is that is dependent and predicated on violence it's A force of it I call it if you don't pay your taxes and force and then eventually they start taking things from you And you don't come out of the house. They come yeah, which is I'm saying and if you buy back basically Let's put it this way They're going to come in and take and take my possessions And give it to somebody else That somebody a thousand miles away in an office is determined is more deserving of it Then letting me spend it the way I want to And that's charity Well, he is okay. So let me let me just add a point here here to this because I think what Joel's saying And translated into my uh bizarre language Is that it just something to do with That it violates Are evolved psychology. So we did evolve in small group living Okay And in small group living conflicts arose How did they resolve themselves? Well one is okay You focus on my wife. I'll kill you But the other is there are the village elders Yeah, so this person, you know came on my land and stole my shit And so I appeal to the village elders and those so they confer and then they pass the judge So it's all a very local situation So what we do is we have this uh evolved psychology that's designed for small group living We transplanted into this weird modern world where we have bureaucracies and other weird shit that's making decisions for us and very big and very big Yeah, and it's it's it's evolutionarily unnatural And this is where I agree with you on this issue. You know, it violates our sense of Uh justice so so even things like Uh like welfare Now some people uh This taps different aspects of our evolved morality. Some people say well, I don't want people sponging off my stuff I work hard for my money and these other people are not working and they're just sponging off But that's one it's a reciprocal violation. Okay free rider So we have we have an evolved mechanism against free rider. We don't like that But then there's another set of our evolved psychology that is more altruistic That is yes, it's it's called need need based transfer Okay, you're we run through a hard time in your life I'm going to help you the village is going to help you because when you're running through a hard time We're going to help you and there's a kind of uh, what's called indirect reciprocity There are different terms for it. Um, and so but different political groups Highlight one or the other aspect of our evolved psychology Yeah, so democratic liberal and I'll tell you this to throw that out You know another thing people do most politics is personality types It's personality people gravitate towards being a republican or conservative. They are of one type They'd probably have a lower open They've done studies on this and the hexaco score lower openness to new experience Lower agreeableness lower forgiveness and that's so part of the thing that's good about america Do you have these parties that bring out both sides the part that wants justice? Hey, you work for your money I'm not going to give you and then you I call it the father and the mother instinct So to me republicans and this to sound a little gender sexist, whatever Republicans are more the father side you fall your trip the dad says life's tough, you know But you also need a mother that goes like let me come cry on my shoulder So a lot of the democratic principles are nurturing. It's like look You know donald trump came in and cut meals and wheels a lot of people are like Okay, the republicans are like, why should we have to help me on wheels and there's a part of me that's like Elders should be taken care of by their kids, but there's also a part of me That's like do we have to cut that couldn't we cut a little bit of military thing? We have to start with meals on wheels So I honestly think we literally spend our life arguing over our personality types just like you say right right We're a little more aggressive. So we're like Be your military. Well, we might do tolerate a little bit of welfare if they wouldn't call it cherry because if I say I'm going to give your money to that guy. That's not me being charitable, right? so Right, right. You can't really But I bet you you should Let's see. Let's see just a I'm sorry to reiterate my point here. So the ache Impair of way they have a food sharing system to try okay. Yeah, so Hunting okay, you think well the the good hunter man gets a bigger share of the meat They don't right okay The good hunter all the hunt the meat from the hunt gets pooled and there are central distributing systems And they distribute it basically based on family size and need okay, not true of gathering This is the interesting thing hunting is a high variance resource Gathering is not gathering is based on the how much effort you put in Okay, so there's what I gather. I'm going to keep for me and my family So you're saying gathering tribes are different than hunting. No no no ache or both. Okay, okay What I'm saying, but the commodities are the meat resources So if you're a hunter you're going to be successful one week. You're not in two you go two weeks with no meat Okay, that's why they pool it so high variance resources they pool And and share communally Low variance resources that are dependent on your own personal labor That's you keep for yourself and your family And so and so that so that would be in our society with the parallel be like Entrepreneurs who kind of got lucky like it's like it's literally a murderous like that system You hit more than one billion dollar a year like revenue You should have to give it up higher more because Didn't work so much harder that he's worth 70 billion But you can also play the devil that kid he works smarter. So it's now mud But it doesn't matter you can say the same thing about the hunter It's actually all of nutrient density of what you bring in so Gatters bring like berries versus meat, which is very nutrient density dense So he's not saying it's that he's not saying it's he's saying it's the variability Sometimes you're gonna be a hunter and then walks by you're blind. Yeah, you but what I'm saying is that you Capture big fray Occasionally that is like Hitting billion dollars. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you can't replicate that thing But so that has to be tax And if it is like normal labor, right, right, right the footnote to this though is that the good hunters Benefit another way better status two ways. Yeah status. Okay, so so one is Wait, I'm just going back to me And so in it all Okay, so so all of a sudden good hunter Takes it takes a piece of the we are going to tax you but you get all of the No, so the good hunter takes a prime rib and gives it and says bring this to my mistress before I go back and distribute it centrally Uh, so first of all, so we're good Okay, good hunters have more mistresses and second There's competition to keep the good hunters in the group And so other people are motivated to take good care of the children of the good hunters So they take the splinters out. They make sure they're well fed, etc So that they don't leave to go to another group exactly kids So they don't direct off good presbyterians and become methodists. There you go. Hunters are our lead American go to Canada Yeah, that's exactly right. They're just not Doesn't get directly a bigger chunk of the meat, but there are other indirect benefits But the thing that I would say just speaking to Joel too on top of that is if you just do a mental experiment What if you switched it To let's say let's just take one thing you got rid of Universal oh you got rid of welfare So the question would would inter cities which or or real world places would they get worse than they are now It can either stay the same get worse or get better. That's the only three logical I mean, how can it get better? How can interesting how can it get worse? You know, that's fine. How can it get better? How can it be because there's no health care? Let's say let's say let's do well in there because health care. Let's do welfare. You get rid of welfare I People respond to rewards and one thing that that warm Charlie Munger says be aware of perverse incentives. So for example They're paying per child that people have people going to have more kids right if you get more welfare That is What I would introduce and I totally agree with that You know, absolutely people are but one of the things that is critical that people don't Take into consideration is the point I raised just a second ago, which is the variance In inner cities In and the projects what you have is high variance and resources Okay Partly due to drugs or whatever So you have some people driving around and in the rules is yeah in other people You know building McDonald's When you have high variance and resources and what that creates is in male psychology I'm going to do the risk taking To gain because I'm going to get the high resource. That's why then prime. Yeah by male So this this is the fact saying so he said well poverty causes x well causes x in different In ways in male brains and female brains cause male brains to take the risks The women aren't taking the risks or at least not as much in those circumstances So I think the variance in resources is a critical part of the causal explanation for these things But if you give there's not enough money It's you look at the math. You can't just take all the money if you can't take all the money from bill gates It doesn't it doesn't help if you gave every penny yet Let's say it's let's take bezels hundred billion dollars And there's 300 Bezos jeff you give a hundred billion To 330 million people how many how much dollars is that? Yeah You do the bath right now if you take if you take u.s. Welfare And give it to every person in the u.s It's thousands of dollars. It's a lot of money. It's it's you know, it's 25 000 dollars per person in the u.s Our current expenditure And where does it go? Wait, I would like to begin one person. I was ahead. Yeah Every american you you take the budget Divide it by the number of americans And it's like 25 000 dollars per person. I mean it's way up. Can't be GDP of the united states is 45 000 dollars ahead Pretty sure, but okay. I'm gonna look this up because the entire gdp of the united states is maybe it's not 25 But it's yeah, it's big few thousand. I believe it's big. Okay. All right. Let me inject one other thing We're we're taking a contextual, you know a multithreaded context And and trying to strip out one little One little issue welfare, okay In holistic thinking You you can never you can never strip out from a context one known thread because everything relates to everything and so you can't you can't just Deal with with one are you with me? Yeah, so I would just like to inject the fact that in most of the In in most inner city, especially crumbling inner city situations Detroit being the number one example, perhaps st. Louis being number two st. Louis has lost 50 000 in population every 10 years since 1950 Okay, so if you go to st. Louis today, you will find um Fully excavated expressways that are now grass fields Or they they've got actually community gardens on on ramps that were excavated for expressways that they abandoned because the You know rust belt, okay Here's my deal You can't just look at this as a single issue thing if Let's take the extreme example of the single model four in a food desert. I mean In my term food desert is a is a big deal. Okay. Yeah, most of those are in very crumbling areas I mean baltimore has 200 000 acres in the city st. Louis has more than that. Detroit has I don't know like two million in the city of detroit if you If if the single model four who had an entrepreneur who came to a knowledge society conference On a scholarship sponsorship because somebody sponsored and said Here's a here's an up-and-comer. You know, we're gonna we're gonna sponsor three Minority single moms from Detroit to come to the knowledge society entrepreneurial conference Okay, and she comes and she drinks the kool-aid I mean goes home and says man, I'm gonna start a food business in my Precinct so she goes to a vacant lot And she puts in a garden and she gets some chickens and rabbits and she starts making You know pot pies in her apartment And selling them to the people in the in the complex city government starts like within 30 minutes She's going to have 10 bureaucrats knocking on her door saying This isn't zoned commercial You've got to have a fire extinguisher Licensed on the wall. You've got to have handicapped parking handicapped access bathrooms has a plan You know approved electrical a fire code approved The fact is that freedom and liberty Enable Way more people than taking The few extreme Examples of of who doesn't get helped in freedom and liberty And trying to create a bureaucracy To be a security net for every conceivable extreme in the issue It it's not perfection or or horrendous it's It's it's weighing the risk benefit of two imperfect systems And I would suggest that the that in in aggregate The the falling through the cracks element of people in a freedom-based system Is going to be less And people will be more affirmed and empowered in that system overall than a bureaucratic system that centralized Trying to make sure that not a single portion falls through the cracks and and going back to the blockchain Blockchain will solve a lot of this stuff People less people will fall through the cracks. There's other ways Big government. Look, this is where Joe you will like cryptocurrency because you're learning about it as you said Cryptocurrency hates centralized stuff. Yeah, right. It blames most problems on centralized, which maybe is an extreme thing But I wrote a tweet today that kind of hit me in the shower as I study history Basically, we follow crazy people When I read from a personality standpoint from what I've learned from you doctor bus like Adolf Hitler is a classic narcissist and probably psychotic and probably Machiavellian Stalin was extremely Machiavellian You know that mousey dung. Have you ever read about mousey dung killed the most people of our time way more than hitler 50 to 100 million people way more. So he may be the most narcissistic person You don't even have to know what narcissism is. I read his there's this new anthology of him. It's a biography Probably the most narcissistic human to walk this planet So what happens in centralized power because he got centralized he like ran all over china And then you have Stalin run all of us. Well, it was a ussr all of what we call russia and then hitler All of germany and central powers There's huge problems And one of them is just the people who want to control are the worst people And I think the same thing happens even in the us It's the worst are rising to the top. I mean no offense to Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or obama. They're not the best people There could be a lot better people. I'm not saying who the worst or the best I guarantee you the last election. I don't know when I heard more people say We have 330 million American citizens. Yeah, and this is the best we can only to really be yes I meet people that are sharper, but the problem is in a centralized It's selects for certain traits. For example, who's the best campaign person? Why do you want somebody who's good at campaigning? That's completely separate than who's good at Debates even debates. That's like debates bring out people that are great at debating Not necessarily being great president Yeah So this is what I was saying the blockchain might be the answer to every conversation we're having Where it will just remove that whole thing Like you impact that what how will that so it'll give you a practical thing. This this is a just a simple not a complicated Right now Unfortunately a lot of people don't go to vote, right? So democracy works when a large number of people vote what percentage people actually go to the polls I mean to the to the voting station. Do you know it was hard what I thought it would be other things like We'll have 25 to up to 50 percent I was gonna say 35 before I thought yes, so let's say It's like 35 good 35 is not good Yeah, no, that's 35 not you'll get more accurate when you have more I think what if it was as easy as everybody in america votes By going on their iphone It's completely high. It's highly secure. It's unmanipulated that you can't manipulate It'll be almost impossible because everybody could see the transactions on an open ledger and everybody votes Now you might say that does it matter that much? Well, maybe not in america, but it matters in a lot of countries in the world Where idiom mean or putin? How many times has putin won in in russia? He wins it. How long has he been president for? Putin's always Suggesting as a blockchain type system. Yeah, because pooms is the chief. He gets everybody decentralized Everybody in russia who has a phone no human can in fact and you can't go to a station where there can be people watching And uh, it's just anonymous and everybody feels that way people gonna vote So maybe not as much better for the bush is low much. It's almost impossible Maybe even rewarding like even welfare or all these things. Yes It's a guys You know how many people are getting collecting social security on a uncle social security number has been dead for 30 years Right this kind of thing happens all the time. I mean just think about Money if you had a whole bunch of money in your bank account and you told anyone in your neighborhood Here's three rules to get the money if you have a runny nose If you you know, haven't had a job for a month and well people gonna figure out how to get that money They're gonna put they're gonna put something on their nose that makes it. Yeah, that's another one Yeah, have a kid and people just gonna start doing that people would be wonder rewards This is the free will thing if you ever wanted to argue free will or it isn't a free will This is called free riders free riders patients to be free riders when it's to our advantage Yes, but we could eliminate all that then you could go deeper with it For example, I mean this is if you want to hear me get super far out on politics I have seen a system that works It sounds outrageous to say the only system I've ever seen of leadership that works Pretty well the league and want to say pretty well 10 times better than ours is how they used to do it in the bible or How the homage still do it you can't want to be a pastor It's impossible to become a leader of an homage community It's impossible if you have from your childhood Aspired to be the pastor that runs the community the bishop first. So this is how they do They have a nomination all the adults male and female vote for who they want to nominate Okay So in the homage community nobody wants to nominate you they'll never vote for you if you're like campaigning They don't value that right, but even if they did if you could convince all the homage To vote for you because you're a smooth talker So they vote you're not and they usually nominate four to six people They literally take straws put it in the middle or a hat and they pick one out That's how you should have leaders. That's why like in israel everybody goes into the army If you want good police officers, here's the there is zero solution to our current police system Of if you think there's police brutality the only simple solution Is you have a blockchain application That literally selects who has to be a policeman for two years That's like it's part of it's like a draft and then you'll get some nice To yourself mean professional professional people who live their lives With authority and who do you think now applies to get the authority? Yeah, people who think applies for the police department ain't normal people There's a few one out of ten. It's a TSA But i'm just at politics It should be we should be run by people that don't want to be politicians because they're that that's what What did what's his name say? I do wc fields. I do not want to be part of any club that will have me as a member That's wc field it's a gradual march Yeah, so what happens is if I study history General custer was one of those narcissistic people. Oh, yeah in history and he led people don't realize custer Last stand was a disaster for america that caused the Native american wars we went to war against that it was it's all these bad things about america um You go through history even george washington not to be controversial I know some people here. I love george washington george washington. Nope He had his slaves and I just read the story of onah judge who She ran away. He moved to a fruit. He when he's president went to a free those free And she ran away and he hunted her down So well whiskey rebellion Was the first time american troops were used against american citizens Right in george washington's day. It was because The far the western farmers in pennsylvania figured out how to take apple nutrition To philadelphia via brandy Washington george washington had the biggest um brewery the biggest Still were distilled. Thank you distiller. That's what I was looking for. Um in america at the time at the time And he didn't like all that brandy coming in from western pennsylvania But you know in a day before refrigeration that was the only way To to to get apple nutrition In a in a bouncy ox cart To philadelphia for a week. You couldn't send apples. They'd all been bruised and mush So you made brandy and you could send bottles and preserve the nutrition in bottles But washington didn't like the competition and he thought they were making that in the run around him So let's go remember this absolute power Corrupts absolutely every time and so what i'm saying is all these questions to me are common sense If we make absolute power around universal health care Yay, it's gonna something's gonna get corrupt up there First of all as far as I know obama care Forced people to buy insurance from a private company There's zero chance. There's not some corruption. Imagine getting that contract With obama, there's no way if that was on the blockchain But or even donald's what was the thing in portorico? There's one company the small firm in wisconsin got the rights to rebuild all portorico for like Hundreds of millions. Yeah, I mean they revoked that but yeah, they were revoked because he got out right boy. Trust that Look, i'm a businessman I'm a businessman if i'm friends with obama And he and I got a health care company and obama's like hey, i'm gonna do a health care thing i'm gonna be like Man, i've seen you in a while I happen to have i told you we should buy a great company Look, they couldn't even get a website up. They built the work. Remember that website? 25 million dollars 25 website and then crash. I could build that myself. Yes We could build this for a product how much in a website like that thousand dollars. Yes Seven thousand Centralized power is a disaster but but but real again in context Why did we have a dysfunctional? Uh a dysfunctional health care system is because everybody's junk food No, no you back up you back start backing up backing up man. What you find is The wage controls that f dr put in As all part of the new interventionist new deal employers didn't have a way to reward workers because they couldn't Wage control they couldn't they couldn't pay them more. So so they're looking around How can we reward this good guy over here? Oh, well, we'll buy a health insurance right and so so the whole idea of an employer Of a worker being entitled to health insurance. There was employer Was a man an artificially manipulated context created by manipulation of frankland dollar or what i call him roosevelt ski Nice communists You know if that's at that time, well, they go out ethanol the most harebrained idea to save the planet Yeah, well the main thing destroying the soul is corn how it's grown now It's like no to even no till corn is a nightmare But they're plowing up the brazilian rainforest the argentina pompous all this stuff to grow ethanol Which then to save the plant so it's like let's destroy the planet two steps and then bring it back one step But here that was centralized though. Yeah, here. Yeah, here again. I don't have a problem philosophically with ethanol You know if it's part of a of a holistic multi-speciated, you know system The problem is that when you have government subsidies to go out and build a you know 100 million dollar Plant You that that infrastructure then Dominates the decision-making The whole decision-making Yeah freedom Of of however far out in a radius it has to go from that plant To feed that plant so our our infrastructure determines what we do. It doesn't matter whether we need ethanol whether it Is valuable whether it destroys the soil or anything by gum We built that 300 million dollar facility and we're going to make sure that keeps going and and and that's why our our Our single-use industrial scale infrastructure Comes back to haunt us because it's not retrofitable and we become emotionally and economically dependent on it and it then controls our decision-making for The next you know foreseeable. Yeah, I mean all these things but a but a backyard a backyard ethanol facility where a guy's you know got four or five acres and he's That's wonderful. That that should be part of a of a you know multi-dimensional Plowing up two million acres of pump with one guy on a huge tractor No, no, but that that I'm telling you you'll like this Alex the end of the day Everything comes down to money. Unfortunately for people that money. It's like if you sniff all the way back through Like whiskey revolution war It's like you always end up sniffing right to a pile of dollar bills. It's like, okay That I could sometimes smell them here. Yeah, so I know I do like that. You're not red or blue, but you're green Appreciate that. I'm libertarian. Is that what you would know? I mean, it's joy. You've had an influence on me I'm probably not green environmentalists, but green. I mean, you're green money In other words, green the money you might be red. What color is crypto currency? Yeah It's transparent digital Like Joel and I are gonna make a decision of our own free will To stand up and walk out of this room and the rest of it I'll be you're gonna have to sit here and wait till your neurons bump up with this No, this is a once-in-a-lifetime conversation. I know we need to have some red bull for you Red bull will alter your neurons Oh, yeah, I'm or would lift your spirits. There you go. Oh, no, I didn't say in a short order We would do that. I'm just oh, you're just saying at some point. I thought you were saying enough of this nonsense conversation I am I need more dr. David bus because dr. David bus sometimes forgets how smart he is and just said stuff as if we're also He's like the dualistic And I see him like stop because no one's responding and we're like, but we don't know exactly what that means That's exactly what I think about what I think about the coexistence of physical and even him when he's giving his I literally I'm going to use this updates going for like, yeah, you know I'm not a rational psychology. I think it was a friend. No, but the best part is he was trying We weren't getting his point. So he was making it with the same terms he did before we still wasn't getting it He was like no the variants We're all like that still doesn't prove the point because we don't understand you So he said the same thing twice Yeah, that's not the way to explain something people aren't there Okay We need the only thing that would make this better Zach. We need Ben Shapiro And Mike and and Michael knows and you're a slim ball But here's somebody in the spirit of Fairness right here who would be somebody that is a good representing the democratic side You got to always have all sides. No mark. No more. Oh, no, no, no, no, no more So, uh Rome, who do you think makes the great Michael knows book and you'll find some suggestions. So dr. Busch would you say you Are more republican or democrat? Uh, neither actually, okay, the material Well, I Because you have to be one of these famous Whoa Definitely not communist Although have you ever read Karl Marx? I'm telling you Karl Marx is one of the most intelligent He that guy I can see why communism took over half of the world you read it and you're kind of like Hmm It is kind of exploitation of labor. I hire people to work for me Then they get paid less than they're worth to me if I can get an employee who does marketing and makes me a million dollars And he only wants 50 grand I'm like, yay I mean, honestly, that's I'm just trying to be fair. So when he says there's an exploitation of labor I mean it becomes semantics and then Joe, I'm gonna tell you something. I want I want to steer this I want to hear your your smart people's opinion The honest solution which probably will never happen will be a return to small village life Uh, you were talking you called it. What did you call it small group living? So one thing I heard from Joel which When I was there at 19 and I've now lived out Cities cause a lot of problems now to be fair cities cause a lot of increase in creativity and there's a lot of good things out of it, but Centralization of people causes a lot of problems too. Whether it's how we grow food people are you want a reason This common sense is gone It's because when you're detached from like simple things like I grow my own food When there's half the kids in their city do not really know that yogurt comes from cows. I promise you that When you get that detached from reality, it makes sense that you're detached from lots of realities And so common sense as I see as an entrepreneur I just realized like if you want to make a million dollars a year now There's so many tools. It's basically like a series of probably about 300 common sense decisions What am I good at? Okay, I'm gonna build. What do people want like and I see people detached from that This old guy older guy came to my house. He's probably like 65 or 70. He's like I made an app I retired. I made an app. I need your opinion And so I looked at app. It was probably the worst idea. It was like solving a problem No one cared about it's like underwater basket weaving app Okay, and I was like, did you put a lot of money in building this? He's like put my entire life savings of one million dollars. I told him you just lost all your money So that's a detachment from common sense a simple farm kid I feel like who grew up connected had to you know, okay the barn door fell off the house I gotta get hinges. They can do like the sequential logical stuff Okay, I need that the barn's half a mile away. So let me make a list for myself So I walk there do this all that's lost It's just I'm telling you Joel. It's lost. It doesn't matter if I hire somebody I have somebody working for me who has an ivy league degree They make the worst decisions by far of anyone I've hired And phd some higher it's like it's no Relevance you're a smart phd, but it's uncorrelated. I you have a phd because you were smart It's not the other way the phd didn't make it. It is because people are protected So your survival does not depend on making good decisions anymore Therefore you've been making terrible decisions on your life and you somehow are here still here. You have not died Yes, therefore you just never learn how to make good decisions because discernment is like a muscle Yeah, the service has to be extra. Yeah, I didn't like You know this time I was I did a speech in canary islands brought me over to do a speech and it was it was shortly after the election And of course if you remember in the election, this is the Trump Hillary election If you remember the the map of the us and the red and blue I mean the map looks almost red The blue is On the west it's totally coastal. Yeah, and it's totally urban when they when they did it by whatever by county or precinct, you know blue is is completely urban and respectively work And so at this conference It was all about living sustainably and they had you know cities that have that have put in No motorized vehicles for three days, you know, and it was very interesting But but but for sure all of the the big wheels that were speaking they were extoll they were windelberry you know extolling the virtues of the agrarian mind and and and farmers and indigenous wisdom and people that work the earth and how how Whatever Common sense of gold they are Versus monsanto and the scientists in the lab are you with me? Okay, so this this was a demeanor This was a lot like a you know a kind of threat, you know through the comp. Okay, so No, for the record, I didn't vote for Trump. Okay, I don't vote for already any I was a libertarian which I which I've done for many many many elections So anyway So we're having dinner And they start I mean, I'm the only american at this table And you know, there's canary islands. There's got netherlands france All and they just start How can you even how can you even go back to america? Yeah, and they just start just haranguing on the election and trump, you know Under how these people could be so stupid and all this So I just let this conversation run for a while and I asked him I said, you know a thread of this conference all of you guys have been saying how People that are close to the land and on the land and farm, you know how how How they're better stewards. They have more understanding. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. So have you seen that map of the election? Yeah, I said Where's the trump votes? It's in rural america We're the farmers And they just You messed up their conversation. I did I did and they hated me. They I mean he was asked to leave the canary island Yeah, I mean it was persona non grata The passport It's no good. It was just silence and they just Changed the subject and that was it removed you from agenda. It was it. It was it They couldn't they couldn't come to grips with their own Well, they've been had and they knew it. You know, Zach just says liberals. That's how Zach explains that. Yeah But anyway, I mean, well, you know Well, you did or not and and and uh It I just but do you think Gary Johnson wasn't the libertarian guy? Did you wasn't he's somewhat of a Income pope too. I don't remember What's that or something? Yeah He was certainly not the best. That's what I'm saying. Look libertarians to centralized too. They got they have a Party, right? So parties attract people that want to be like it's almost like non It's almost ironic. I want to be the centralized leader of a non centralized movement It's libertarian of all of them should start by randomly picking somebody Or not randomly but picking out of a pool. Yeah, well, we just we just don't have it in our psyche. I think Blockchain anyway, uh blockchain gonna change all this I'm telling you and this is better than AI. It's not artificial. I'm telling it. It's like Human eye by the way, you know what I believe? No What we need is a new AI. Yes, it's agrarian intelligence. Yeah, okay more Joel listen to this Yeah, I know Or maybe intelligence we could have we have we have no collaborative intelligence is the one I bet I bet everything I don't think it's going to be cyborg machines It's going to be if you could connect all seven billion people together It will be more powerful than any super computer. It's going to come out 100 years There's no way eight off Hitler would have come to power if everybody in the world voted There's no way Germans got tricked into the whole world with Anyway, thought for a bus. I have a question for you Enough of me. I already know what I think This is why I don't take too many stands because then I say too much and I don't listen to other smart people So see I think you were going to say something different by what you were the threat you started which was that the um group intelligence was um Rater than individual brilliance. It is Okay, I thought that's the path That's what he says. It's actually that's the blockchain. Yes. He tells me all the time I still kind of like you In 75 years All the money I had 75 years It ties right on on this and I've changed my view on it Well, I used to think okay, it's the brilliant individual innovator But when you go back in the history of science and the history of ideas, you realize that these brilliant innovators Yeah, they took a slightly larger step than the others But that design space would have been discovered regardless Yes That's what we're doing is we're exploring design space I don't think it's brilliant. I think it's courage More than anything else. Basically you have the balls to kind of like transcend a given Construct of things so everybody thinks one way. We just dare to think different. Yeah, yeah, you know Yeah, yeah, or that or that There's a conflict this this other notion that that when you have I mean it's the Darwinian process Kind of what you described what you do with your ass like say you have 50 different variants 500 variants and see which ones work, right? Okay, so when you have Five million five billion people producing variants. See which ones work. That's going to produce a more intelligent Senate submissions potentially or sure Then it is not more than a single brilliant innovative scientists You know come you so but but with the caveat that there are these brilliant innovative scientists That do make a larger leap than most other people But they also caused a lot of trouble to people read enough history. They caused trouble Yes, they caused big trouble. Why is innovators? Both of them are ways to to move forward So having a lot of people making a lot of mistakes to find the winners is one approach to win Also having one person literally sitting down and figuring something out and making a big leap forward is another solution Sometimes a works sometimes b works both of them can work. Yeah, but the thing about this practical application oj Simpson case or um You know this recent case that was so controversial in san francisco Where this woman was killed by an illegal immigrant. What was his names? Her name is kate stoneman. Yeah, kate. It was like there was a hashtags about this one You needed more people than 12 jury. You should have 100,000 people vote on that You would have got the right answer you got the right answer 12 people can be manipulated by lord You cannot manipulate 100,000 a million people in 48 countries So that I guarantee you would have got the right thing you would have displayed that on somebody's phone You watch the thing you watch the evidence on both sides. That's on the blockchain. The oj Simpson jury was manipulated. Absolutely. I'm shocked Okay, I was like let me say I'm holding you out of one of the board Yeah, I know Personally some of the attorneys and they told me they're Can tell you from inside or information one of the You know that there was a famous whispering oj Simpson to one of his lawyers Do you know what the the lawyer said? I know he said I told you He said on day one. I know we're gonna get it. I know how to make you innocent Of course the payment of money you'd be innocent my friend Now blockchain would have made it fair You cannot have 12 jurors It's the right they had the right idea in the 1700s or whatever when we came up with the constitutional or even pre American idea of the jury But they didn't have technology so you could only practically have 12 people now We have zero constraints on that have 50,000 smart people Get watch a five minute clip and vote globally guarantee you you'll get more justice Do you know any justice? I agree with you but also the fact that people the jurors are Influenced by shit that they shouldn't be influenced by so they think eyewitness testimony is more reliable than vna You know and eyewitness that's most like the worst the most unreliable that so yeah But 50,000 people, you know the old saying it's like you could fool People all time you have to all the people all time Common sense kicks in at high number high numbers is a beast By the way, if you believe in american democracy, you really believe what i'm saying It's the underpinning of america. You cannot have a centralized king Nothing that's max of that concerned about um, you know, they said an informed elector Is the is the bedrock so you're not concerned that you democratize so that you got 300 million But well about 300 million, but 200 million whatever voting You're not concerned that That they're not informed enough Well, first of all the media is the worst what you got a decent you got a deconstruction have centralized media That that doesn't work cvs cnn all these things. They're easy to manipulate. I promise you i'm telling you this as somebody Who doesn't even like Politics that much I know exactly how They get an article to the top. There's seo manipulation of google So when you type in things things get in the top they phrase things insert. I'll give you the perfect example This is uh, this is something where I think they did trump wrong. Okay. I'm not a trump supporter or hater This is the most ridiculous thing Trump gets elected a month later I read this article and i'm like wow, this is crazy. It said largest Resignation of state department heads in history So i'm like, oh my gosh all these smart people the state department are like we're not gonna handle So I click on the article first paragraph's like two people Two out of five or something or four out of five people He fired three of them one of them was like it was his time to resign because of the a No, that's that's but if you only read the top So what you have to do is you cannot have a fair Modern um media cannot be what we have now. It has to be lots of people paid a little bit Not one person paid a lot because one person paid a lot. We'll figure out how to get paid more absolute power Corrupts absolutely and our media are not you can't that's why I like politics I feel like I can't actually know what's going on Does donald trump lay in bed all they say oh one guy said he says he lays in bed all day and watches six hours of the news Other people are a lot reliable sources are like the demands of hard-working duties and entrepreneurs What am I supposed to believe? I have to fly to the white house the criticism of donald trump though some of that you don't need to Get it from the media. It comes from him. You make your own decisions based on You I mean not I mean you know Based on his own, but twitter everybody says it's bad that donald trump has twitter. I think it's good It's decentralized. He just says what he wants to says you can vote you can read it and go I like this guy or I don't like it. Why do we need an intermediary? I'm totally with donald trump on him being able to use and let him post outlandish things Then you can decide whether you agree with his outlandish things. That's actually twitter is example of blockchain It's an ugly old version. So what is the definition of blockchain? So the new point of little like 1.0 would be like twitter everybody gets an account and donald trump can just tweet for himself So if you want to know what donald trump believes if he says, I think haiti is a shithole. That's his tweet We don't have to hear secondhand. It's probably accurate if donald trump says it and he Reaffirms it on tv on a video video would be a point of blockchain if you see donald trump sitting there on a live thing going I hate haiti You're getting it firsthand from them before that we had like news reporters journalists by the way are one of the most Correlated with psychopathy journalists highly related to psychopathic mental diseases CEO So 3.0 So 3.0 will be a new system a newer system for example You know how they say like sources Said donald trump lays in bed all day those sources will kind of be able to be anonymous But not necessarily so what'll happen is somebody will go on their phone. Who's an aide to donald trump? They'll say Donald trump is sleeping all day They'll press submit But there's 30 other aides Who also see that message come through And 29 of them go bullshit. He does not So the blockchain verifies that that first person's lying None of us are there with donald trump, right? But if 29 of his aides anonymously can say that other one is bullshit, then we discard it. It's not news So it's verification. So it's a way of increasing the accuracy of the information Yes, which you know is the most important thing to realize the way In a way, that's hard to hack You would have to you would have to go pay off all 29 aides, which we know is hard If you start slipping 100 bucks to one of them, maybe you can keep them quiet If I go and try to pay we know What is that the cartel effect? You know then economics So whenever you have a cartel if the cartel's too big someone will Cheat so someone will take it and go. Hey, I just got paid a hundred. I tried to slip me a thousand bucks So by me having to corrupt that system of 30 aides having to verify a piece of information I'd have to pay off 30 which becomes very hard Now imagine there's a five. Here's a blockchain application 200 years ago, you're like Bob shot Alex shot Joel for no reason. There's no cameras Alex is very convincing Joel is dead. Nobody's in the room How do we know if Alex is convincing with a great lawyer? He walks free. But what if there's video cameras everywhere? That's what changes things video cameras. Now we see Alex stand up over Joel. There's audio I hate you boom Right, that's why it goes to jail. That's blockchain 1.0 with a video camera. Okay. Yeah, but what if it's better? We know videos aren't everywhere But what if blockchains everywhere? Everywhere police brutality. Well, but you know these cameras on Rodney King got beat the next day still That's because it was 1.0 blockchain and so what they said was you didn't see what happened before That's how that's how the whole dump. That was the big thing They were saying the guy was on pcp before we turned the cameras off He was throwing us all around all this stuff But imagine was 24 seven A way to verify that couldn't be corrupted that any of those for example any of those policemen could submit anonymously Dude, we're all lying So anonymously, but verifiably but verifiably because other people have to it's complicated But that's how the blockchains everybody's uh So the person so the person so one person cannot vote many times So that's everybody blockchains One idea is that it's hard to get So hard to gain the whole Had a girl systems that are hard to gain. Okay. I like it. Oh, it's powerful Like I said, just think of it as that analogy. It's a stupid analogy But it kind of gets but it is also dumb and blunt So when you put smart contracts in place, they don't depend on somebody making a gray shake It just the hammer drops. So there's yeah, there's a smart imagine justice that says if it's proven that you murdered somebody Automatically, you're dying. Yeah You're just so so for example, it doesn't make mistakes. So that would stop murder more If you knew Yeah, murder that's why I advise people against murdering Uh Technology there's about a 70 solve rate Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow a highest solve rate of any crime Dr. David bus wrote a book called the murder next story. He is actually a world expert on murder He didn't write from his personal experience. I don't think that's that's important to clarify You don't have a lot of anecdotal experience So when the first time I murdered somebody or the anecdotal experience, I want to keep under wraps for now I don't want to get a subjective to blockchain Do you think the world can ever go back to small groups because evolutionary mismatch Is basically the problem with dating love marriage business depression Almost everything that humans don't like Are this evolutionary mismatch? Yeah. No, it's a great question. Yeah. I don't know I think that there's some ways in which we do create a small group living in modern urban context, so The effective group that we live in is not the the millions or thousands but our neighborhood and whatever But I agree. I mean, I think the mismatch is a huge problem mismatches What do you think are the biggest mismatches that you had to fix one? Uh, and Joel will probably relate to this Um low activity level Okay, people don't get out and Expand energy A lack of lack of sitting in chairs or at a desk. Yeah, they're not out. I mean, I think of how our ancestors Live, okay, they hunted they gathered they were outdoors all the time active Exposure to sunlight Living in groups people that they trusted Okay, kin groups uh as as well as uh non kin groups that they trusted that over time you learned to rely on Because they were trustworthy. This is an issue that came up in your conference trustworthiness So so uh and then and then food Is another mismatch, you know, we're eating shit that you know is not good for us And and jules been trying to correct that so those are the four that I would I did what about depression Let's talk about that for a second. Do you think we're depressed? Somewhat because we've created this world that makes us more likely to be depressed. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely I think those four things just to start with so there there are depressions psychotherapies now that try to Uh, uh, narrow the mismatches so increase activity level increase exposure to sunlight Hang out with people that care about you and you care about Uh, physically. Yeah, physically not not on Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because that's the that's the worst thing and I'll give you one more comment today So and I hear this, uh, there's this a perfect couple Okay, it's like they have two they're two successful academics They have two beautiful kids and they post all their happy pictures on facebook of their two beautiful kids They're getting divorced now and everyone's shocked and I kept trying to tell people They're what they post on facebook is not what their lives are actually like, you know, it's bullshit You know and and long behold it is but people think oh if only I could have that Yeah, and and this is an issue that I think came up in the conference today In a slightly different context and we do with this with mates Okay, we have a small amount of information about potential mates and we interpolate positive values In the blank spaces where we lack information So I don't know how emotionally stable is Britain and how dependable how whatever But we when we fall in love with them, we get attracted to them We think they have positive values on all those characteristics The more we get to know we realize no Yeah, they don't actually they're much lower on this set of things. So we create this weird idealized Um set of uh beliefs about what people are and what they should be But if there was in a smaller group, let's say you grew up in a smaller town You knew everybody from childhood. You knew that that was a dependable person from a good family So you had better inf- see it all comes down to information. Yes And in the modern world Information gets manipulated. It's easy to manipulate. I would suggest even that there's another another element And that is scale Scale isn't everything but scale Scale is something scale does change dynamics of a group of your ability to know Of so you're saying when it is groups too big you just say don't know you're asking you're asking devon You know, can we go back to small villages? All right. Well, I would argue that's That's probably not likely. Okay, but I would go the other end and say Do we I'll pause it. We're not going to go back to small villages But then I would ask Do we have to have a los angeles the size of los angeles? Right. I mean, is there some is there some middle ground? Okay, can we not have the art museums and the and the Ball teams and whatever, you know else debating societies and theater Can we not have that with a city that's half the size of LA? If half the population moved to Oklahoma and Nebraska, I mean, I'm just so do you think it'd be better in virginia, for example was its own country It was on country Could it be let's say it was possible with technology and you could self-regulate There was a simple self-regulation would the word that'd be an example of smaller scale Yeah, 330 million people North Carolina when I lived there was like eight or 10 virgin is probably 10 15 million Yeah, I think if we took if we took 90 percent of what we've Irrigated to the federal level And went back to the state with that level of autonomous control I think it would be very very different now You're agreeing with what I said at the beginning that my guess in a hundred years is you won't have the same borders There won't be a big united state. Did you know this that right now there are 33 states? With active secession Yeah, california has one. Yeah, it was in the news. Yeah, I say we partition off san francisco It's its own place Texas will be first Texas already There's texas and there's awesome. Those are two different That's right. I think it is the san francisco. Are you Austin san francisco? Now you're back to kind of the whole james dale davidson thing the sovereign individual if you read that book I haven't he was the founder of the national taxpayers union Um, and he wrote a book. Oh, this has got some age on now probably 25 years ago. It was one of the first big Epiphany prophetic books that I read the sovereign individual and he talked about the rise and fall of the of the nation state Yeah, and how the nation state is a very artificial human construct that tribalism Is the historic norm. Yeah, everything bad. You know why everything bad in germany was after auto von bis mark May germany come together and then these guys went to war in 1914 war war one Seven two-thirds people were killed or maimed Then 15 years there germany went after and it was a nightmare. You know when my grandma was parents was young There was no germany There was pomerania prussia There was bohi meravia There was my grandma's parents remember when there's no germany and for that there was the huns Yeah, that was a different time What do you think should question another controversial thing would the world be the income tax as we know it is new Yeah, 150 years ago. There's no income tax. Should there be an income tax alex Do you have an opinion? Yes why Because of externalities so the fact that I make an income Comes at the at a little bit of cost That the environment and infrastructure around me Provides to me So I kind of pay back. So like your employees drive to work on a road. They destroy the road a little bit Yeah, so I pay in So that the roads are paved so that they the infrastructure exists For me to make that is there a better way to do that though than income tax for example Tolls on the roads. So if your employees don't drive Why do you have to pay that? Or like the Amish they don't use schools at all And they don't use social security, but they still have to pay it and they gladly do it But it doesn't seem very fair because it's not just use of infrastructure. It's also Things like you know taking care of orphan kids So they're not using that That's not a big thing anymore. I mean don't Not a lot of orphanages Alexis back orphan Kids with bad families being taken care of orphanages are definitely on the decline They they were bigger a lot. We have we have foster care. Foster care. Okay, so That's not exactly use of infrastructure It's investing In the future of humanity so that they can produce They can have output in the future, but that's not the question should have been centralized in washington dc As opposed to a boy san francisco's city government is a lot more The way the founders envisioned it and the way that it worked up until 1914 Was the reason for the us census Was to get a census of the states because we are the united states of america. It's not a democracy. It's a republic That's why i never used the word democracy. You should never vote for anybody who uses the word democracy It's a republic And it's the united states of america. So the powers not specifically given to the federal government were Given we're by default given to the states and so so the states you're saying states were allocated A federal a federal amount per capita that could be collected However, the state wanted to do it if they wanted to do it with with property tax If they wanted to do it with income tax if they wanted to do it with capital gains tax It didn't matter You know they could do it with sales tax. Yeah, you think that that prisons worked I don't know. I'm I'm not a big uh, I'm not convinced of the empirical evidence on rehabilitation Really for most people especially high on psychopathy. So you're saying either there's nothing that'll fix people. Um, I think for for uh, I mean it depends on the nature of the crime Uh for highest psychopaths, um, who are violent You do want to put them away. I think uh to protect innocent victims. So you're saying it's not rehabilitation It's just it's renewable. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, it's like an assault. Yeah, where do they get the king? But that's a lot of the they get it back or legs. I mean It's where I would agree with Joel on the on the drug issue A lot of people get get locked up for, you know, long jail sentences for drug crimes You know, and I I think that's absurd. Yeah, um, you know Uh waste of taxpayers money doesn't do any good Look at the rapper that just meat mill just got so here meat mill Has broken parole three times He's a rapper and one of them was for popping a wheelie in on a motorcycle in harlem The second one is for breaking up a fight which the police said Was justified that he broke up but he got involved in the altercation and the third was turning himself into rehab For drug use. I say 25 years max, you know, no But I'm saying you got like two and a half years of prison. Yeah, that's weird. Which is just like, yeah But he's on probation for like 10 years Yeah, he's on probation for 10 years or something to do as a teenager and then the more you're on probation Anything you do Right violates the probation. Yeah. Well, that's the other thing is the thing that I've learned with corresponding with all these prisoners Is how many hurdles we put in front of them when they do get out If they serve our service and they get out They can't they can't have this job that dog. They can't live within a mile of a school. They can't I mean Or they can't be around individuals Yeah, yeah or children. I mean you can name your thing and My lens we hear a lot about punishment. But can we hear about forgiveness? What's the law? It's a recipe to fail. It is it is and and this poor guy. I mean he he's he's got family in georgia That's ready to bring him he wants to he's ready to farm He's read, you know, everything 10 times. I mean, he's a real Real brain. I mean he was a us airways pilot. He's a sharp guy and and he He can't he can't get to where he has family and support But he's not unique. This is everybody. They just arbitrarily he's not from north carolina I mean he that's not where he has people now His his people are in georgia and he's being georgia where he's got, you know, family sent him to north carolina Yeah, yeah, that's where he was originally arrested But but that in 17 years that Whatever his friends community. I mean his marriage broke down, you know There's nothing there that they should they should send you to wherever You have support right I don't care where it is. So on that note, I'm gonna send myself to bed. Yeah, but I think most of us are gonna follow it. It's been Fantastic. Ty. Thank you so much for organizing it. Yeah. No, thank you guys. It's an amazing event. Yeah. Yes. Yeah People have time is undefeated and it's 2 36 in the morning and everybody's slowly fading Alex says was extremely talkative at the beginning Slowly the number of words per minute has gone to about a one per hour orphanages and Two more hours. No red bull. I'm good. You're liking it that much. Thanks for being involved