 Welcome to Barbell Logic Rewind. Welcome to the Barbell Logic podcast. I am Scott Hamburg, and I have the main kick, Matt Reynolds, here. Of course, we're doing this remotely with our good mics via Zoom. U.S., the best online conferencing tool that I know of. If there is a better one, I'd like to know because I'd use it. You spent a lot of money with Zoom. You wouldn't believe how much money I spent. It would be nice to get a, hey, Zoom, it'd be nice to get a kickback from you guys. But it's great. There is that other video conferencing. There's several, but... Well, Skype is the other one, right? But we have converted completely over from Skype to Zoom, and we love Zoom way more than Skype. Yeah, before we kicked off online great books in a big way, I tested them all, you know, Citrix and GoToMeeting and BlueJeans and all the screen sharing and video conferencing softwares in Zoom. That's the best interface, the most reliability, the best recording interface, blah, blah, blah, blah. Nobody else can touch it. But today we want to kick off what I think is a logical progression from the two stress recovery adaptation episodes that we've released here in late January, early February, where we started to talk about that there are really only three things that you can do during programming. You can increase the intensity, you can increase the volume, or you can change your exercise selection. And there are a lot of things that you can do inside those three things, but all the changes that you can make boil down to one of those three. So we wanted to start what we're gonna call our toolbox series, where we start talking about what are the tools in your toolbox that you can use to address specific programming problems. We're gonna call this a toolbox, MED number one. The problem we want to talk about here is for an early intermediate, we're through with LP, LP is over. So for an early intermediate that needs more stress, one, how do we know they need more stress? And then two, what tools in our little three-part toolbox, intensity, volume, or exercise selection, can we use to address that for the early intermediate? Okay, so first off, let's look at this from sort of the bird's eye macro view. I think that's the first thing you have to look at. And we talked about this in both the SRA podcast that we've done. We know that stress must increase over time. Always. So the bird's eye view is stress has to go up. Now the question is, because this is a toolbox episode, is how do you know that stress actually needs to go up practically today or this week? Right, because the answer isn't just jack the stress all the way up as high as it can go, but the person can't recover from it and it's not necessary and we care about people. So we don't want to just jack it up to the point that they can't recover and it kills them. So even though it has to go up. As a matter of fact, started to speak over you. As a matter of fact, it's actually, it behooves us to increase stress only enough like at that minimum effective dose level in order to get an adaptive response, right? Like if I can add going back to LP, can I get an adaptive strength response by adding 30 or 40 pounds to the barbell, the first few workouts? Yes. Yes. Should I? No, because I'm still gonna get the strength adaptive response by adding five pounds and it will let me stretch out the amount of time that I can continue adding intensity to get an adaptive response from an intensity increase, from that sort of stress increase. So here's the easy explanation. If I deadlift 150, if I'm a kind of starter guy, middle-aged man and I deadlift 150 for a set of five on Monday, I could probably deadlift 180 for a set of five on Wednesday. That's possible. I suspect that's true. And then I might even be able to deadlift 200 or 205 on Friday, but very quickly that stops. And so now I'm at 205 or 210 or 215 and I can no longer add weight and I'm only four or five workouts in, but if I add five pounds per workout, then that takes me over the course of several months and you won't stop at 205 or 210 or 215, you'll stop at 345. Yeah, and 355, whatever, right? So the three questions beautifully address this problem for people in LP, right? The three questions are correct. Am I resting? And am I doing my recovery stuff right? Are the weight jumps appropriate? And what's the other one? I just lost my mind. Are you resting? We need to do the same thing. And eat enough. Yeah, right, yes. But the problem then becomes though in intermediate programming, they still, those three questions still apply, but it's not quite as clear cut what's going on when you answer those three questions. So if you go to an intermediate based programming, almost everyone would tend to move towards a heavy light medium or a Texas method style of programming post novice, right? Not everybody, so we're gonna go right to super advanced. But if you're moving towards, as you get into early intermediate, if you basically have a volume-ish day and a heavy-ish day, and maybe even a light middle day, give or take, right? Are we starting with those assumptions that we're there and now we need to know if we need to add stress? How do we know? Is that a good question to ask? I think so. So let's talk about how to add stress moving from LP into intermediate. Let's start there. Right. Will that work? Yes. Okay, so we need to add some stress coming out of LP. And we've already talked about, we have three possible things that we can do in the nerve variants on those three things. Three things are exercise selection. I'm gonna take them backwards, volume, and then intensity. So let's look at those three things in that order that I mentioned them. So we heated out on LP. Let's say that it's a man and he stopped for Ease of Math. Three sets of five at 300. He got it. He went to 305 for the next session. Yahtzee, we're not into doing a bunch of resets. So it's time. So what do you do? Exercise selection. At this point, would we consider changing the mix of exercise selection? Right now, he's on the four big list. He's on the squat, the press, the bench press, and the deadlift. Could he benefit from box squats or anything else? Could he benefit from those things? The answer is yes, right? He could. I don't. I don't because it immediately starts to complicate things. Let me clarify that. You don't program that at this point, right? I do not program exercise selection changes coming out of LP and moving into intermediate-based programming. With the one exception of, I will occasionally, as I start to transition somebody into a Texas method type split or a heavy light medium type split, I will occasionally, if I am seeing a form problem, as the weight gets heavy in the squat, specifically the squat, where they're getting loose in the hole or knees are sliding, then I may program a tempo squat. That's the primary thing that I'll program there on the light day, on the Wednesday day. If the Wednesday day is just there to sort of grease the groove and keep the motor patterns correct, then an easy way to make sure that my motor pattern is correct is just to slow it down. So that's not an increase in stress necessarily? Right, you would program that for a remedial purpose to fix form. That's exactly right. But outside of that, I wouldn't change exercise selection moving into intermediate-type programming. I don't do it either, and I agree with everything that you said, but here's why I don't do it. No, let me flip it. Here's why I would do it later for someone. Because their squat's so blasted heavy, I can use a variant, get them a great deal of stress, but the weight is lighter and it doesn't beat them up. Most variants require less weight, and using a variant is normally something that we do to actually get them some work, but do it in a less stressful way. Yeah, or even what I've said is it's something like a tempo lift in any of the movements where a pause lift is very stressful, but it's not stressful on the joints, right? So they're actually, they can recover still quicker from those things, and so it's less weight. It's still a lot of stress. There's still obviously an adaptive response that occurs. There's a hypertrophic response that would occur with that, but in general, here's my argument against exercise selection coming out of LP. If in LP, volume is static and frequency is static, and the only thing that has changed is intensity is going up, up, up, up, up, incremental increases, all at three sets of five on all the lifts other than the deadlift, or just one set of five. Then I think that there is still some stress that can be pushed, both in intensity by going up and bringing the reps down, going up in weight and bringing the reps down to triples and doubles and singles, and also in volume. The thing about three sets of five is it's sort of the middle of the bell curve for both volume and intensity, right? And what I'm gonna try to do in intermediate programming is I'm gonna try to push one of those workouts deeper into the volume piece, right? So I'm not in the middle of the bell curve of three sets of five. I'm at four sets of five, five sets of five, maybe six sets of five, right? I might even get up to sort of like up to 25 to 30 work reps on the volume day. At the same time or in the same week in the same general period, I'm also gonna push the intensity quotient so that I am pushing, I'm increasing stress two different ways in the same week. I'm increasing the stress from volume on Monday. So it's much greater volume and it's a more stressful event on Monday than an LP Monday is at three sets of five. Now I'm doing five sets of five or four sets of five. It's an increased volume from there. Therefore, by its very definition, stress is increased. And on the Friday day, I'm going to, I believe making the bar weight go up is also an increase in stress. It's a different form of an increase in stress, but it is an increase in stress. So I push stress both those ways, both directions on one of those workouts, it's volume and on one of the workouts, it's intensity. I think it's a simple way to program it, to organize it. So to further clarify the toolbox idea, the variants, typically, I will use them to remediate form or to get them stressed without being their joints up. They can get some useful training stress. Or overload, I mean, I use them for overload too, right? So I'll do like, you know, a three more press or a floor press or a rack pull or something like that to actually put more weight in their hands. And, you know, if I'm going to be completely honest, I'm not entirely sure why that works. And a lot of me thinks it's just psychological. I know why it works. I'll get to it in a minute. We'll get to that in a further future. More than psychological? Yeah. Okay, so yeah, that's fine. So we overload. Yes, you're right. So the general consensus is between you and I and certainly most of our coaches is that we don't add exercise selection changes. We don't make exercise selection changes. Post LP in early intermediate. When you add a new exercise, you almost always end up backing off the intensity. Is it being less stressful anyway? And we're trying to add some stress here. So you would go, and I would go to volume and or intensity. Heuristic. For describing what happens, why we have to periodize at some point, right? So is it optimal? Is it whatever? There are so many arguments about the Texas method, but it demonstrates beautifully the ideas that are necessary to understand and to implement when you get into out of LP. I think that no matter who you are or what you do, you end up undulating the volume and the intensity over some short period. In this case, it's five to seven days for the Texas method when you get out of LP. So in the Texas method, you are, which is for our purposes is illustrative, get to volume day. Now you said that you would go as many as 30 sets. I also want to say that Matt Reynolds. I'm 30 sets, 30 reps. I'm sorry, 30 reps. I also want to say that Matt Reynolds is the guy that recorded the show on Barba Logic called Old Men Texas Method where volume day can be 15 reps. That's exactly right. And then Hamburg is the guy that goes three, five, four, fours. Now we're at 16 reps, six triples. Now we're at 18 reps, four to five sets of four. We're at 20. So I do that, right? And all the way up to 30. So why would we do that? It's because we need that stress. Yeah, because we need the stress. Yeah, because when you start to think about quantifiable metrics, volume and tonnage are not the only metrics to show that stress is increasing, right? Intensity is also one of those things. As a matter of fact, again, coming back to our very most basic foundational principle, we believe that PRs in general, personal records is the single most important metric. And that doesn't mean one rep max. And so if I can continue to push the weight up on Friday, I believe that heavier and heavier weight is not just a performance, but is an actual stressor in and of itself. It is a stress. It is a stress event. If you've ever pulled that one rep max, deadlift, like in a perfectly straight line, you shake, you get to that tibial tuberosity a couple inches below your knee and it stops and you shake back and forth and then it finally breaks above the knee and then eventually slides up the thighs and you're okay. Like that's a very stressful event. However, it's probably not enough work in and of itself to drive the adaptive response we need to increase strength. Right, it's clearly training stress. It's just not a lot of tonnage. It's not an enormous amount of training stress. That's right. So if you go to my Instagram account, here on the, let's see, that's got underscore silver strength. You'll see a full tilt boogie limit attempt at a deadlift. My father-in-law Todd pulls 405 and it's a nine Mississippi lockout. Yeah, and how old is Todd Todd's 54 years old and he pulls 405. So there's 54 year old guy pulling 405 and works real hard. And he and I actually had this talk. I was like, hey, did you just display something you already had and or was that a training stress? He's like, seem stressful to me. I said, hey, let's ask him the next. That's what I said. I said, we'll talk. That was Saturday. I said, let's talk about it Monday. Yeah. Well, he stove up as hell. I mean, he was clearly, he wasn't sore, but he was stiff. He knew his quads knew it. His rump knew it. Like it was clearly a training stressor for him. And it carried out. In fact, him being 54, that attempt, successful attempt by the way, seems to have affected his press. You know, he had a volume day on the press scheduled for Monday. And it should have been a layup for him, but it was not. Yeah. So, you know. There's just residual fatigue left over from this, not just performance from an actual stress, right? So, then why would you have him pull that single? That is the first single he has ever pulled in his career. Oh really? Yeah. Because there's value in the PR. There's value in the stress and in the in and intensity stress. This intensity cannot be the only metric used to show that we are increasing stress. Cannot be the only metric. Intensity cannot be, but it is a metric. And it must be one of the metrics. But also volume must be used as well and tonnage slash tonnage, the combination of the two to also show that we're increasing stress. But if you use only volume or only tonnage and never intensity, I think you're also leaving a major piece of the puzzle out. And so in order to increase stress at its foundational level, once you're post LP, I believe that both over time, volume can be used to drive stress and intensity can be used to drive stress. But in general, both must be used to drive stress. Let's do a little mental experiment here. Let's just program in our minds for our man who did a 300 for three sets of five and that was the end of LP. Let's just add volume for this man. So let's just go volume only. We're gonna take a little weight off the bar. We're gonna take him. Was it 305? Is that what you said? I just said 300 for math. Okay. Is it 300? Let's take 10% off, which is traditional. Let's say 275 for easy numbers. So we'll put him at 275 and have him squat for four sets of five. Okay. So his tonnage was 4,500. Now we're gonna go to 20 reps at 275. So now this guy's tonnage is 5,500 in a session. Now let's just have him LP at 275 for four sets of five. Sure. How far is he gonna get? I think he's gonna get 300 for four sets of five. I think he's gonna get 295, 290, 295, 300, maybe even 305 for four sets of five at some point. Just running kind of an LP with that increased volume. Sure. And I actually don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. But meanwhile, you've got the man to 305 for four sets of five. Like he can't get to 500 or 350. Or he can't get to 350. He can't get to 350. He can't get to 335. I mean, probably not. No, I don't think he's gonna do that on four sets of five. Okay. So then we'll just add another set of five at that point and back it off 10% again. So let's say he gets to 310. So we back it off to 285 and have him go to five fives. Sure. You could, but obviously the point that you're making is where does it end? At some point you hit the wall, right? Is it at seven sets of five? Is it at eight sets of five? At some point you can't keep adding volume in order to get a strength adaptation. And you don't get, you just don't get the weight on the bar. So we're just doing a little mental experiment here. And we know this is true from the results. Thousands and thousands and thousands of people who have done strong lives, which starts them on an LP of five fives. We know that that doesn't work. So they do LP, which is good. And they do get stronger. I don't think I've ever seen anybody get to 300 on five fives of strong lifts. I know they're out there, but I hadn't seen them. There's young kids or 18 and 20-year-old kids that have done it for sure. And what's your experience? We have lots of people who come over from strong lifts. Listen, there are, I love strong lifts. As a matter of fact, the vast majority, 99.9% of all programs are worse than strong lifts. Like strong lifts is better than them, right? Oh, right. Strong lifts is great. And they make progress. In my experience, they make progress for about six weeks on strong lifts, maybe two months. Whereas on LP, you often make progress for three to four months. So it basically doubles the time that you're able to make progress because the volume piece of strong lifts is too much. And the intensity piece of strong lifts is too little. Let's continue the volume mental game here. So we talked about five fives. Now let's talk about reps, because we've just been talking about fives. Yeah, which I've done this, by the way, what you're about to explain, I've actually done this with both with barbell movements and with accessory movements. So instead of three sets of five, what if we did three sets of six? Well, if you did three sets of eight or 10 or 12. Well, but what if you incrementally increased it? What if you just went three sets of five? So let's say you've got 275, the guy's doing three sets of five. We know he can do three sets of five at 275 because he did three sets of five at 300, right? So he does three sets of five at 275. And so then the next time he does it, he does three sets of six. And then three sets of seven. Or maybe he does a set of six or two sets of six and a set of five. But overall, the total rep count continues to increase. And then he eventually gets to 275 and he does three sets of eight. Right. Let's say he gets to four sets of eight. And then you add five pounds to the bar and you peel some reps off and then you run back up again. Sure. It works for a little bit, doesn't it? Absolutely does. It's a way to increase volume and tonnage. If PR, personal records, personal bests or the goal, you can get them by increasing the sets and you can get them by increasing the reps. But it is my experience that you don't get much, that you can't really even get a 10%. You can't even get 10% on your three by five out of doing either of those. So if the guy ends up at 300, we're not gonna drop him back a little bit, add a four by five or add, you know, maybe a three by six, three by seven, three by eight and then get him to 305 or 310 or 315. It just doesn't happen. Now, the person is probably stronger. If you could do 300 for three by five and then later you can do it for four by five, you're clearly a stronger part of your person. But then that's the end of the road by that methodology. So now what will we do to add stress to this person? Well, let's stop and then let's, in order to be fair and sort of be bipartisan in this, the same is true for intensity. If we do the same thing and we only drive intensity and so we go three sets of five and then we go two sets of five and then we go one set of five and then we go two sets of three or one set of three and then a double or a couple of doubles. And then like, if you're coming in on two to three times a week and all you're doing is hitting one heavy set of one or two or three and the intensity will continue to go up over the course of, you know, I don't know, a month, whatever. At some point that stops as well. You can't just come in and just hit a single. Well, just hit a double, just hit a triple. Well, there are people that do that, you know, the famously chalet, right? Sure, but what was the deal with chalet? He's already brutally strong. The guy was already an 800 pound deadlift. He weighed 350 pounds. There are people out there screaming. PEDs too, there are people out there. And clearly PEDs, right, which is fine. But the point is, is that we always want to try to talk about the middle of the bell curve when it comes to population, right? I think that sometimes some people will complain via email to us or whatever. But what about the outlier? You know, like, of course, man, there are always outliers but that makes for a poor conversation when you have several hundred thousand people listening to a podcast and 99% or 95% or 96%, this will work for them. Spending an enormous amount of time talking about the outlier, that doesn't help anybody. As a matter of fact, it will actually hurt more people that it will help because some people think they're the outlier. And what we know is that if you only drive volume, it will only last a short period of time. You can't keep getting stronger, only drive volume. And if you only drive intensity, if you only drive intensity, especially at the sake of volume, if you continue to peel off volume just to drive intensity, that will only last a short amount of time. By the way, there are times for both of those in the time as I'm going closer and closer to a competitive performance to a meet, I will be pulling off volume and I will increase intensity. But it's only about two to four weeks worth of training time. And that's in order to completely dissipate fatigue and allow somebody to hit PRs at a competition. And then most often, immediately after that competition, I'm going to drive the volume quotient as much as I can and I'm gonna keep intensity down. And a lot of that is just because the person is sort of beat up and they're tired of chasing numbers and let's just get volume and hypertrophy and let your joints rest a little bit and do that for three or four weeks before we start to bring intensity back in. But for most people, for post-novice people, for early intermediate people, for intermediate people, we, you and I, and most of us will continue to drive stress and increase stress via increases in both volume and intensity and not usually in the same workout, although that will come with advanced training. In the beginning, it will be a volume will drive in stress with a volume workout and will drive stress with an intensity workout. And HLM and all styles of HLM will tend to do the same thing. So again, those template-based programs are all very, very similar. People will say Texas Method, they'll say HLM, they'll say whatever other program. Yeah, they're all the same thing. You've got some volume, you've got some intensity in there and you can call it whatever the heck you want, but there's really no way around increasing the volume sum and increasing the intensity sum and you can't do it in the same session. You can't do it in the same session. You can try if you want and we've tried it with people, we've tried it with ourselves. You can try it if you want, but you can't do it very long, but we can titrate the volume on on Monday for the old man, Texas Method, 15 reps, four by four, 16 reps, 15 reps, 18 reps, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You can titrate the volume on and then you can also titrate the intensity on. If you do it carefully, you don't smoke the guy, right? You don't grind into powder and you can get week after week after week of these weekly PRs. Real quick, as I think an important point that needs to be made here is we often talk about as we're trying to make changes to these variables that during LP, frequency and volume is the same and intensity keeps going up, right? And so we know that stress goes up. We can, in order to increase stress, we can keep volume the same and drive up intensity and then we know that stress goes up. We can keep intensity the same and we can drive up volume and we know that stress goes up. We can increase both volume and intensity at the same time but how long can you actually do that, right? Like really, really quick, that sort of bonks and we know that stress will go up if that's the case. After that, as you start to get into later intermediate sort of programming, that volume and intensity almost always have an inverse relationship. As one goes up, the other one has to come down because you can't just keep adding weight to the bar and adding sets or reps to the bar or frequency. You can't do that except what we're actually doing in this early intermediate phase is we're actually increasing volume on one day and increasing intensity on the other day. So we in fact are increasing both and certainly the intensity day has a reduced volume and the volume day has a reduced intensity but we are still driving stress primarily via volume on one day and intensity on the other. And so we sort of do get to do that in this early intermediate training and you don't get to do that as much when you get to other training methodologies as you get further down the line that becomes more and more difficult. You can't, once you squat 600 pounds for one, you can't squat 600 pounds for two, 600 pounds for three by three and six, you know, or six, you can't keep going up on both. So you've pulled in the sevens, right? Back in the day when you were a better athlete, you know, when you were a younger man, sure, Matt. I'm 40 now, by the way. This is the first podcast I've ever recorded as a 40 year old. In the last half of your life. Don't say that. How many minutes? I'm living a 90. How many times a year, how many times a year could you pull 700? Yeah, that's a good question. Four. Or that's more than I would have guessed. Yeah, probably four times. But I mean, I was a pretty good. And really, this is the other thing is that you may be really honest. No lie to me. You know who the best athletes, the freakiest dudes are that I've ever encountered in my life, strong men. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's not even close, dude. Think about this. How many power lifters on earth, power lifters that are not also strong men, how many power lifters on the planet can deadlift over 800 pounds? If you had to guess. On the planet, a 1200, I don't know 100 of them. I would say 40. I don't know. 40 people right now could deadlift 800 pounds. How many could deadlift 900 pounds that are power lifters and not strong men? Three. Two. Right. How many strong men in the world's strongest man can deadlift over 900 pounds? All of them. All of them. Yeah. All of them. In the summer when the crazy, you know, donkey barb, you know, but. Yeah, yeah, but almost every one of them can deadlift 900 pounds on a regular barb. Now they use straps and they can hitch and I realize that makes it. But the point is this, something has occurred with those guys. Also, those guys have massive frames on them, right? We've talked about this before. You think about like Thor Bjornsson. Super, super. Brian Shaw. These guys are 6'7", 6'8", 6'9", 4'40", 4'55". Like that is, that's like, you know, Old Testament biblical Goliath size. Like you're like, that can't even be a real thing. Yeah. So the reason I mention that is because when you're competing for strong men, you actually, what I found is you can compete far more often because the movements and the exercise changes to change per, the events change every time you do a competition, right? It's not like powerlifting where you're just squatting, bench pressing and deadlifting. There is always some sort of deadlift almost every time. There's some sort of deadlift. There's some sort of overhead event. It's axle or log or something. And there is always some sort of loading event, right? It's usually stones, but maybe it's sandbags or whatever. And so you have to tend to train that deadlift. You learn how to train the deadlift with an enormous amount of intensity and an enormous amount of frequency. And what you do is you pull up the volume as you need to, right? So you get your volume from frequency, from lifting. You think about like lifting a 400 pound or 440 pound stone and that's a deadlift, guys. I mean, that's, if you don't think that's, as a matter of fact, that might be the most taxing thing you could possibly do on your back. That's a deficit deadlift. Your knuckles are against the ground. Your hands are on the ground, right? And it's not on your back foot either. That's right. And so sort of, I know that's a long roundabout answer to your question, but the answer is in general, like if, and I was almost always competing when I did strongman, I also competed in powerlifting. I probably actually pulled over 700 pounds on a normal barbell four times a year. And I would do, you know, about five strongman competitions during the summer. And I would do about two powerlifting meets during the year. So I'd compete about maybe seven times. And, you know, that's what it would look like, but it's not that often. Yeah, so you can't do it very often. You know, so Todd, if you go see him on Instagram there, he pulls 405 there. Listen, 405 ain't 700, but it's his 700. There's no question about it. And I think that he gets to pull that three or four times a year. That was gonna say, when do you think the next time is that he'll pull 405 or over? I won't have him pull another single attempt for months and months and months. Yeah, so probably June, right? I was thinking August. Right, okay, summer. And, you know, and the reason I programmed him to pull 405 is because he needed to do that. I think he's the happiest guy. Like if you see right at the end of that video, he's the happiest guy in the universe, you know? But he might have been better off to actually do 375 for five that day. Yeah, probably not. Right, probably not. But he needed 405. How long has he trained at your house? He's trained there for several years. Like for two and a half years, he's been my training partner. And this is the first time you've ever let him hit a single. Like, you know what, that's okay. It's time. It's time to hit the single. And we've programmed it a week out. And we've talked about this before, but clearly some value there. And he learned some things about himself that he wouldn't have otherwise learned having not done that. So that's important. So we've talked about how to add stress via volume and intensity. Let's, before we wrap up the show, let's talk exercise selection for a second, right? Cause there is, especially if we're using the toolbox, can we increase stress via exercise selection? Yes, we mentioned that. Do we tend to do it post novice and going into intermediate? No, right? And we'll do an entire episode coming up on a toolbox about how we do use exercise selection to increase stress. But it actually works the same way with volume and intensity. With exercise selection, just as a teaser, you can do overload partial movements which drive the stress via intensity increases, like a rack pull and a floor press and a board press. And you can do variants that increase range of motion or increase time under tension and decrease the weight. And those effectively add stress via increased volume. That's really what volume is, time under tension, right? And so things like tempos or pauses or deficit versions of something. And so you can increase stress those ways too. And we do that, we love those. We just don't tend to do it until they get into more later intermediate programming. Is that fair to say? Yes, it is. So to clarify all that, I'm not sure that we did as good a job clarifying that as I would like. We talked about how you can drive strength increases for a very short time by just moving volume up. And we also talked about how you can drive strength increases for a very short time by just moving the intensity up. So just like a three by five is sort of in the middle of the bell curve of the volume intensity continuum that gets us good results in LP, varying both the volume and the intensity gives us a happy medium between those two stressors. And if we do that over a short time horizon, in this case for an earlier intermediate, it'd be a week we can get increases in strength, both volume PRs and intensity PRs for weeks and weeks and weeks. So in this case, our minimum effective dose is actually two things. It's increasing the volume and it's increasing the intensity. We can't do them on the same day for an intermediate early intermediate. So we have to do it over the course of a five day training cycle Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. You can call this program. You could write that out and put percentages in there and save it as an Excel spreadsheet and you could call it anything you want. But our experience shows us that that is the best way to get ongoing strength gains and more weight on the barbell for the early intermediate athlete. I think we'll call that one a wrap. Go to atbarbell logic and follow us there on Instagram. You can see all kinds of client PRs and announcements of new material that go out. It's not just podcasts, it's also a blog post and papers and YouTube videos. And so if you go on Instagram and subscribe there, you'll get to see when those things come out. And like I said, those PR videos are always fun. Give us a five star review. So there is another barbell logic podcast. We'll be recording some more today. And coming in here, here are all of these. Hope you see them. Thank you.