 Thank you very much. Mr. Bhattra for setting the tone for this edition of the conclave as well and On that note ladies and gentlemen, we'll get started with our first plenary session of the day This is where our experts will be debating on transit oriented development for Bengaluru So let me again repeat the topic being transit oriented development for Bengaluru But first up before I invite our panelists on the stage We have a video on this topic that we like to play. So let's take a look at the AV, please I've just been informed right now that we do not have the video as yet So we're just going to directly invite our panelists on the stage Let's get started and first up invite our session moderator We have a task. Mr. Amit O'Broy was a national director knowledge systems with Collier's International So if I may please invite to Mr. O'Broy on stage He in fact is an experienced real estate professional and has worked on projects in South Asia Latin America as well as USA Well joining him our next speaker Mr. G Raghavan who's the CEO of Bhartiya city developers private limited Let's let's give her applause going to welcome all our panel members as well He's been leading this large mixed use city development enterprise with focus on value creation through design centric residential Commercial and retail assets our next esteemed speaker ladies and gentlemen architect subaya TS the secretary of II a Founder urban morph urban design think tank as well In fact, he's also the principal architect of subaya design architect And he's also the co-founder of the startup Bioman technologies that has a sustainable technology to manage the wet waste of the city warm welcome Moving on to our next speaker. Mr. Srinivasan Subramanian who's a CEO of SNN builders who comes with more than 30 years of Prolific experience and advertising Communications and marketing as well our next speaker ladies and gentlemen We have it as a CEO and managing director huts global general secretary of CREN country PR head and governing council of Narendra as well We have it as Mr. Sameer Aurora. Please put your hands together to welcome mr. Aurora as well His company huts global a company established in the year 2006 offers real estate consultation and property management services as well Moving on to our next speaker. We have it as the principal architect and managing partner of Venkat Raman Associates mr. Nareesh we nurse him in to please come on stage a Practitioner of over 30 years of experience and architecture as well as urban design Well moving on to our final speaker for the session We have it as mr. Balakrishna Hegde who's the founder and managing director of a chartered housing private limited He's also the past president of Kredi Karnataka and currently the mentor of Kredi Karnataka and executive committee member of Kredi National please put your hands together to welcome all our panel members and we'll get the session started again With mr. Amitobh Roy taking part from here. We're just getting the mics ready Could we have that light turned off, please or at least him? Yeah, perfect. Thank you so much Ladies and gentlemen Welcome to the session and it's a pleasure to have such a distinguished panel here comprising of leading developers of Bangalore an activist An architect who has very strong opinions on the infrastructure in Bangalore And from the real estate sector mr. Sameer and sir yourself, and I'm sorry. We couldn't play your video But let's start with you And let's talk about what people do globally as a best practice and you were mentioning about the Middle East And what are the best practices people do in transit oriented development? Hi, good afternoon everybody Basically the subject is Very interesting in terms of how each of the city should develop in terms of Todd is concerned And I did a bit of a research and found one of the videos which was really interesting Which I found in Albeda in Canada where they talk about specifically on the subject how this could be brought out and if it is brought out really well in terms of You know the connectivity the model no multimodal kind of Transport system and how a complete street should be developed And in this kind of a development. It's very interesting and you know, maybe as we progress I think the other participants also will contribute in terms of specific reference to Bangalore actually Bangalore is One of the most fastest developing Metros as far as real estate is concerned because you know all said and done the price is still Reachable and you know people can afford to have even for two crores a really a luxury apartment in Bangalore So a lot of investments are coming a lot of interest is there and BMR CL on its part is trying to do government Is on its part trying to do but somewhere I think so people have to ensure that you know all the Parties involved should be you know involved in this and then trying to develop a broad system which works really well Thank you, sir. Thank you and Probably over the course of this session. We'll get an opportunity to see the video that you've put together It's ready. Yeah, let's have a look at that. I think we should start on a positive note looking at what the best practices are City Council's For the city of Edmonton a long-term 30-year vision that speaks to things like building a compact city shifting Edmonton's transportation mode and from there we have the transportation master plan and use of the development plan that Will have policies that integrate transportation and land use and develop these land use plans around transit nodes and corridors Transit-oriented development really fits into our vision of the future of Edmonton and that it'll have a major role And how the city is shaped over the future transit-oriented development is about creating density and proximity To some sort of a transit facility be it a LRT station or a premium bus stop The transit stations and the development around transit stations isn't just going to be about housing. We want to make sure that there's Civic facilities it could be a library. It could be a community facility. It could be neighborhood shops and cafes. It's a mixture of residential Employment perhaps some commercial land uses all within good close proximity to public transit So that it's it's a place where people want to go not only to take the bus or to take the train But also to meet and to do their daily Activities so that we're offering choices for people to live and work in places that make transit desirable And that and that provide the efficient form of energy and sustainable transportation. That's it well about across North America And in Europe and in Asia there are a wide variety of cities where most people choose Not to use automobiles most of the time in all these cities We find many neighborhoods where most of the trips that people take during the day are on board or by transit And again people have cars for shopping with heavy items or for weekend trips in Cities where people live and work more closely to one another Public transportation can operate more efficiently and of course, that's what we want We want an efficient city as well as an accessible city by implementing a nodes and port or a concept What we're seeking to achieve is is to locate Extra-density and so doing we're going to be creating certain efficiencies We're going to be creating a ridership for the system itself Which hopefully will certainly Justify its cost. We're going to get less need for vehicle use. We're going to get people walking more We're going to get a more green city out of that So they're going to be a number of benefits that we're going to see out of the TOD development Absolutely, it makes sense economically and we're looking for long-term economic viability for the city Recognizing that the way that we've been developing today is just not going to be viable for the long term We want to make sure what we're doing is in line with what the public is wanting to have for the city They spoke we listened This is really what they want to see for the city for the long term and that's why we're moving in that direction And as markets get stronger and as the Alberta economy gets stronger in the years ahead New development will start to occur So we not only need to have policies to support our transit system But we also need real estate investment to occur in and around those stations the combination of the public's Policies and the private's investments will create the transit oriented development that we desire So for these citizens of Edmonton the payoff is over the longer term That we will transform our city and by that we will become more livable would become more sustainable We'll consume less agricultural land in and around the city And that's what good accessible public transit can do in the long term Thank you, sir. That was quite Informative and I'm sure we've all learned a little bit. Could we dim the lights again, please? So that was quite informative. Thank you so much and it's good to have a best practice And then it was very interesting to read what Bangalore has done, which is one paragraph included in the master plan Which in my opinion, and I'm an outsider. I'm from Gurgaon I'm not a citizen here But to me it seemed like a one paragraph Take the checkbox and make sure that it really does not impact the city. Mr. Narciman would that be a correct assessment? What are your opinions on that? There are multiple views on to do. It's not the panacea that it's rolled out to be Let's understand that anything that is proposed is not immediately Something which has to everybody has to immediately adopt. There is a bunch of Advocates promoting transit-oriented development or the thawedness as you put it. It's called a thawedness movement and There is a another bunch of people who are saying that Is it a smart idea to cram more and more people into smaller and smaller areas or is it better to Create I mean for India. India hasn't built any new cities except one since independence Which is in 1956 which is Chandigarh Is it a smarter idea instead to build a hundred new cities of say three to four million people each rather than trying to Densify the existing cities It all sounds very utopian and very great to say that you know, let's do mixed use The problem is we already are mixed use and the other thing is that we increase the density Unfortunately, I think the density is already too high Right and we're not and you can already see in the case of the Bangalore metro When phase one was opening it was a Mickey Mouse train, right because it only went in one were a little bit Within like two weeks after it's open more than four lakh people are riding the train every day And you cannot even get in I mean now you you have to wait three times in any Central city station just to get into the train, you know three trains have to pass. Otherwise you can't get in So I'm not so hundred percent convinced that transit oriented the transit oriented development is the Is like a it's being touted like some panacea for Indians urban issue But I think we should keep an open mind and look at larger Issues that being said Some of the principles of transit oriented development should be implemented whether you put transit or not The major focus of a city's investment should not go on flyovers Should not go on heavy infrastructure, but rather go on what I call the number 11 mode of transport, which is your own two legs Increased investment in pedestrianization, you know when you go abroad you notice that the richest guy takes the tube Right and so a developed country is a country in which rich ride public transportation and many people walk to work I mean I notice that I have a step counter in my phone with some pedometer kind of app in Bangalore I land up doing 6,000 steps. I went to Italy two weeks back I did 18,000 steps, and I didn't notice any difference at all I mean and instead of going to a gym and working it out. I think it's smarter to walk around and do exercise three the idea that We have I'm we keep referring to stuff in India like saying this is the CBD and that is the suburbia and all that These are all completely outmoded concepts based on fossil fuel Endless fossil fuel availability that you every day you drive to a job and every day you drive back home India naturally has a mixed use philosophy and We should actually encourage that and give it graded zones of quiet as the Distance from the main road increases. I'm not saying allow shops at every street corner But in a clever way that you do not have to take out your car or a motorized vehicle if you want to buy some toothpaste You should be able to walk. They should be convenience stores. Lastly, I would like to make the point that One of the key aspects of the TOD policy is to increase the FSI along the transit line Right to Bangalore. It's now close to four within 150 meters of every station But what about the impact on the infrastructure? Which is there already that water line is not enough the sewage line is not enough and the power is not enough You go and increase an FSI which is 1.5 or 2 to double that right who is And mind you there is no impact fee being charged by the corporation really speaking that extra FSI You should be able to buy it as premium F.A.R. And the premium F.A.R. Should be used to increase the Infrastructure capability of that line along which TOD is done. So there are a lot of gaps curiously This has been going on in India since 1992 is when I first heard TOD name come up in India. This is now 25 years and still it has not made any great impact in any planning policies of Except maybe a little bit in Amdabad and a little bit in Bhopal and a little bit in Nairaipur and Bangalore You can say it's almost non-existent. The station came up and now everybody's calling the area around the station TOD It didn't come up the other way around. So I'd like to you'd Temporary optimism to the others also and look at it on both sides very interesting view on Increasing FSI and making things more compact and therefore the impact on infrastructure In in your opinion if I may summarize in your opinion Therefore, it is better to have a more walkable city of more Friendly city walk to work a sort of concept which probably gels in more with a city like Bangalore Where we are already struggling with the traffic congestions So given that light do you think and what was very interesting about this policy is that it only applies to zone B so do you think that is a We see that government is already pumping a lot of money in mobility infrastructure public mobility infrastructure within the city But now the encouragement of higher FSI is outside So if you're talking about a walkable city a little contrary to what Nareesh was saying there's already so much of money being pumped in and already you're creating infrastructure for people to Adopt public transport. So if you can create developments where you have work walk in work and stay in the same place That kind of infrastructure being developed with the places already where money is being pumped in it will promote You know walking and the pedestrianization better. For example, if you see especially in Bangalore I shouldn't put as a junction if I want to take being having a railway station Bus stand and all those things happening than in vicinity You've seen huge amount of infrastructure coming in a lot of housing and those housing sell fast, right? Why because there's also place to work close by the people can travel to different places and these places have now The real estate price have gone up But only thing that's lacking finally is to interconnect them all with some proper pedestrianization and all things But like he said the things put in first and then people randomly come and build around that whole place because now They have find that people are Locking into that place. So if in the planning stage itself you factor for these things and you know You provide for large pieces of land and second thing is, you know In pulling land together for especially for large builders and I think so having small houses I have small plots in all these prominent locations. You will not definitely have Development that we're looking at even if you give a fair of four or three or four You can never have that kind of development because the plot sizes are so high So it when planning goes in you need to plan such a way that these and one advantage We see of having large developments in a small place is because then you can really track What are the violations small violations done by small plots never get raised and you can never catch them But at least builder does a violation in a thing It's prominently seen and you know, you can at least get them in you will find large open spaces plus all this happening So that promotes You know people to go in for mass transport You'll stop using cars because you can walk down or you can connect to a workplace So there's a lot of thought that we are trying to put in again Especially Bangalore a lot of architects like narration and all of them have been very active in trying to see How we can influence the master plan right now and see if we can make some changes right now It's up for revision. So would one of the challenges Mr. Hegde be the fact that it's only in zone B Is the challenge that land is very fragmented in the city and therefore to even be able to consume that for fsi Given the road width and the setbacks that you have you may not be able to consume the fsi Would that be the reasoning why it's in zone B and Do developers are you enthused by the fact that there is a TOD and therefore a real estate opportunity with that? before that probably TOD of course like Narcimand said and everyone has an opinion on that But in the naturally The TOD concept is already built into our urban space like you look at it Bombay there are three lines central urban Harbor line all develop and most of it is on those three lines and Here around the station you can like Narcimand said you you can probably get everything from Had to a dress to a garment You don't have to go to a supermarket to buy all those things. So TOD. Ness is already there in In our system. You don't have to invent it for somebody has given a name to it. That's it But the problem is the half a sadness That has come into because there is no planning You're talking about a fair and the zone be etc. Ideally We are the kings developers of the kings of the cities We decide where to put what? How many apartments how many towers and what is the size and everything is decided by us and Honestly speaking without much of research Then we go and tell Narcimand. Okay. I want 18 towers of 30 Floors and this is the size and everything and builds it Plans it and I build it ideally the other way round The city should Cities should decide as to what to come and where zone be zone a what should be the density What should build outside? What are the things to be commercial retail entertainment residential? Everything has to be predetermined by the city so that there is no sprawl nor a heifers and Irrespective whether it is a toady or the kind of development that we see in Bangalore the circular development It has to be deep redesigned for the entire area. This is where we go wrong Narcimand rightly said about the infrastructure. Yeah, it's not just the fear whether do you have the Infrastructure to take that fear money should have been only pumped in I slightly disagree with you It is not that the money collected from me for the premium fear should be used. It should be pre Put pre invested in that Okay, yes, it should have been pre invested in that area, then you should ask me to build Yeah, correct Both both are in the same page So it is the problem is not the concept problem is the way in which we implement or we don't implement at all as you said you see Half a page or one paragraph of TOD. Let it be any concept Let it be half a page, but have the seriousness and commitment to implement it. We had a 2015 RMP There is nothing Which has happened after 2007 after release of RMP. We have been building according to our limits and fancies Government has been doing flyovers or no flyovers or somebody objects with a cuba, then they cancel it Honestly speaking, I don't know whether fly or good or not any infrastructure should be there because Any government It is not just in flyover that people eat money they eat money in every project flyover has gone some small small things have come There also money will be there Thank you for the very candid views and I hope there are no government for people here but you know what is a little on a very serious note what is a little Saddening is the fact that TOD whether we agree with it Whether transit as such Bangalore needs it really badly right to have a proper transit system Which can't take care of all the congestion We work in this space where we all ask our MNC clients to come in a lot of them say Do I really want to be here where I do three meetings a day and I'm spending five and a half hours in the car commuting? So I think that's a very valid point So the point that a city will endlessly grow is a stupid one We cannot endlessly grow this city. I mean this is a there's a not there is a forget about Whether IT companies want to come and open you know here or not. There is simply not enough water That's all so forget about whether we have connect broadband or connectivity or you're able to zip around in the half an Hour from place to place the city simply does not have water And if you do not understand and I have been telling the government Karnataka has nine other cities Right what stops you taking this money instead of pumping it into flyovers and other useless projects inside the city and building a highway from Bangalore up to be the six lane highway let it go straight up and Develop every other city in Karnataka. It's not Karnataka is a one-state. We're all nice people everywhere Not only in Bangalore, and I think you know Bangalore, Uduk P, Kundaapur, Bhagal Kott, Beether Stop developing Bangalore. I think we and between the architects and the developers and the community we will take care of it I think the government should move its capital to Daavangere and sit or belgam or something like that and leave us alone Then Bangalore will recover. Nothing will happen Companies do not come here because there is don't come here because there is bad traffic They don't come here because there's not enough water They don't come here because there is not too many mosquitoes They come here because Bangalore is the largest critical mass of Scientific and computer talent in the entire planet and nothing you can do about traffic will change that they will come here anyway The point I am trying to say is the government should get out not the companies then will keep coming without any problem That's really interesting sir, and I will tell you I've worked in the planning for a very long while Getting a new city to develop Is is a challenge because you don't get the critical mass for very long M. The bad has been saying that they will be the next financial center is Bombay We've been hearing that for the last 15-20 years. Boston has been saying that they will replace New York But there's a critical mass Unfortunately, we can't change I'm monopolizing the mic, but there are eight locations around Bangalore, you know Nellamangala, Magadhi, Yashwanth, whatever you call it, Devanahalli, Hoskote, Arthi Belay side. Why can't the government take all this money? I want to see somebody proudly say that you know some IBM should say our office isn't Nellamangala downtown CBD They never say that right? They all want to be in Whitefield or someplace and they may be on behind us So I'll take a cue. Why can't these If we do that and each of our Tumkur for instance a smart city if you start pushing Bangalore quality infrastructure into those places many people who are crying right now will quietly go there and the problem will go away Yeah, let them go and do that challenge there At least it's a lesser problem than Bangalore with high real estate values, right? We just and we put a ring ring railway all around and connected back into the center We really need to come inside a lot of whitefield guys today say oh you live in Bangalore Is it will come there once in a while? So I think they should also secede and become the new Republic of Whitefield or something So we'll take a cue on the IBM and the fact that we'll go to North Bangalore What has been your experience and what have you done in your Bhartya city? Okay, thank you. I feel pretty odd to be sitting in this Panel because we are building I represent Bhartya city, which is will be a 25 million square feet Well contained mixed-use city in north Bangalore And what we're really doing is it completely transport non-oriented a transport non-dependent City that we're building Sorry with a little small touch of arrogance I should say that when all of the panel members were talking about an Utopian situation of walking to work and cycling to work. There's exactly what we are doing although in a very very Microscale Compared to the overall requirements. So what we have done is a few things one is first of all the whole city People will be able to walk from one place to another. We made sure that the Walking pathways are well laid out and well maintained and they'll be so maintained Throughout the life of the city because we've got that taken out of the individual asset classes so that that never gets compromised and Every one of the walking tracks Walking paths does have another cycling track, which also Covers the entire length and breadth of the city so you can actually Cycle to work and it is not a concept. It is the reality and in addition to that What we've also done is to provide a few places where? Cycles are parked so you can actually take cycle from one part of the city and Write another part of the city and leave it there and go to work Although that system is still in the in the treating travel stage It's not been fully developed, but it's it's there and people do Cycle many of our customers when they come they cycle sometime I take a cycle and go around the city and Apart from all that, you know the usual stuff of planning the traffic so that there are no congestion points. There is no Breakage point and things like that. We have developed the city in a way that People are able to move around very very smoothly and that will be the case for all the time not only Different asset classes within the Barthia city as well as within the city in terms of the in terms of the traffic within the individual assets that we have done something like that so Really speaking eventually there'll be about 150,000 people who will either live there or work there or visit the city one way or the other with about 6,000 homes from about Five or six million square feet of IT space retail space Hospitality school hospital everything will be there now when I think of transport oriented development of which I know very little I should confess What I can think of is basically seamlessness if Although I do agree that we should really work hard to decluster the cities But I look at it as two phases one is all the conversation that we're having here to reach the government and then them really getting on to doing something It's a decade-long program. Even if they say yes to it today So there is a here now situation and there is a metro there is metro and further development and so on and so forth I think if we can put the energy in making it seamless Which is to say there are lots of catchment areas from which people have to reach the metro stations And if one can think about privatizing and enabling satellite transport systems then there can be a seamless usage So also the development of I mean people don't stop life just because they're going to go into a metro and go by train I mean if you look at any other city You can buy a newspaper like you were saying you can buy a lot of things on the way You can pick up a copper coffee and it's not an ordeal to to continue to live Well, you're actually transporting yourself from work to home or home to work So there is a certain amount of design thinking that needs to go into the lives of people to make it as seamless and smooth as possible So I think while it's going to be a long time before Bangalore city is going to be decongested It is true that people in Whitefield and people in Richmond Town are not going to be friends for a long time They're going to visit once in vacation days and things like that. It's true But having said this there is a here and now situation. I feel that if you look at seamlessness of Transportation so that actually existing infrastructure is better leveraged better used it will be quite a quite a quite a boom That's what I think Thank you, and I must say it's very well designed your Bhartya city Taking on some it from Seamlessness, would you like to talk about your experience in Munich? I'm at the first thing I would like to say is I've really felt at home here with the stalwarts Because it's only at home that I keep quite for so long till the end. You know, we're in front of my wife Okay jokes part And with your regards, I would like to differ a little bit some of these cities like New York parts of Canada Middle East are very highly advertised on the term Todd But if you if you look at some of the real developed countries in Europe, obviously the densities are lower But if you look at Munich from any place to any place in the suburb to the middle parts of the city the last mile connectivity is is Absolutely not more than 20 steps of walking. There are common card systems whether you take the tertiary Satellite system the bus the smaller train or the metro or a public one and That I think essentially Invigorates and vitalites the whole whole city builds a whole vibrant environment. I personally think the The CBD has to remain the CBD the growth has to be higher in here It should not be 150 meters. It should be a minimum of 500 meters to 800 meters because and As you said, it has to be a walkable city because walking Bicycling which is the key factor to the growth of any of it and the pedestrian movement as long as these three are built You're not only building a decongested city. You're building a healthy society and I think that's that's extremely important Right now. They've done the silk boat to the care program work on the metro is starting It will take a few years and that's one of the Biggest corridors that's being built up But if you look at the dense junctions around say something like a Sarjapur road Which probably is one of the highest density in three kilometers anywhere in the country Not just in Bangalore, but anywhere in the country now until or unless you pre-plan the last mile connectivity The the traffic and the issues will continue for a rapid system also and which is where as you rightly said it gets Overloaded and that has to be planned today. So I think those would be the key factors that will need to get in You have a project in Bangalore where we before this meeting We had a small huddle and you were talking about the experiences What can be done under whether TOD or simple transportation or otherwise to make it more much We don't have larger Projects like a Barthia city where itself sustained with everything But we do have some of the projects which are closer to those areas But basically what as Naresh said basically but first we should Put the people on bus and then decide where to drive it We do the other way around now first we drive and then take the bus along and then pick up people on the way Okay, let's now form a committee and then do everything first They should involve all the parties involved as I said if you want to develop the Toadness to come in to play. It's as Naresh said it's pretty difficult In terms of CBD is concerned because most of the land is taken away anyway because India's Population itself is 20% more than and can consist of 20% of the world's population and we have only 5% land available So it's pretty difficult. Maybe try to develop the periphery where you know Maybe the connectivity could happen and then come with some kind of a no transit System over there where you can develop that and then come up with the Solution around in and around the periphery as Naresh said that it's not necessary Everything has to happen only in Yashwantpur or Malaysia or more else where it is I think we need to plan that for doing that I think all the parties involved should be involved and then we should take it forward It's a thank you so much at Sapna had promised at the start of this Conference, we'll throw it open to the audience for hard question to the panelists Sure, please Okay, actually Many of you have heard of her when I hear this to the debate and I have been part of two or three already Many of you have heard of this Eagle song called Hotel California, right? And there is a line in that which says you can check out anytime, but you can never leave So many of these to the developments tend to create and to paraphrase that line It says you can check out anytime, but you never have to leave So to do is you put it in a more colorful way. It sounds like that Curiously, I was invited to a TOD conference because by surprise I found out that I had created the biggest TOD Development in India without my own knowledge right, which was a unusual project which all of you know called Brigade Gateway, which is in the northwest part of Bangalore and But it was not as Unknown to me as all that because we had prior knowledge that the metro was going to come there and in 2004 when we planned it We came up with this idea called, you know, most developers add a office building next to an apartment and call it mixed use That is not mixed use So what I when we worked with the developer That is Brigade group. We told them let's come up with a new concept in India called mixed up mixed use right, let's mix up the mix you so What you are talking about the Bhartiya city really the precursor it is the largest single development inside the city of Bangalore Brigade Gateway and in 2004, right? It was conceptualized in 2003 or 2004 and it was conceptualized as housing It was conceptualized as a shopping. It was conceptualized as office building It had a five-star hotel. It has a school. It has a hospital It has even a club and it has really lots of up and it has a beautiful lake Which is actually only sewage water recycle, which nobody knows but it but really speaking and it's actually almost It foresaw By intuition, I wouldn't say completely bad design. It's all it's almost very low discharge It almost has no impact on the I mean of course it consumes electricity, but it has no great impact and we find that actually Creating a part. There is no policy in the government which allows mixed use clearly except by taking a commercial conversion and then diverting part of that line part of the This thing the funniest part of the Brigade Gateway is that it has six thousand car parking slots and You would think that with this policy where the government says for every 500 square feet or 50 square meter You need to provide a parking 30% of that car park is unoccupied because nobody needs to go anywhere I think the guys are sold off their cars also Right, so I am looking forward to a situation if a TOD like policy is invented that Bangalow comes up with a Maximum car parking norm and not a minimum car parking one because in London is a classic example of where TODness is embedded in the city and the tallest building in Europe the shard which is 14 million square feet, you know how many parking it has it has three parking slots That's it because the railway station is below it and it has three parking for one for emergency vehicle One for the garbage vehicle and one random vehicle. I think for the CEO or something. That's it And can you believe that we are looking I'm looking forward to a city in Bangalore Where the commercial buildings have no parking because nobody should bring their car Discourage people to bring cars to such a place. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much Really look forward to a time when we can have no parking me and my wife are both working and We always find that I work in one part of the town and she works in the other part of town So I wonder how TOD works for us. We've changed three times our house and on all three occasions It's either I work in the North Pole. She works in the South Pole So those are challenges if you always have we'll keep proposing we'll open it up to the audience I think we should have some hard questions there anyone please We've got one question. Yeah, please For the benefit of all I'll stand and ask my name is Murali Ranayur and I represent a company called Real Docs Which is into legal documentation space in the realty sector It was wonderful listening to you all with you know up and down experience talk about Something which looked to me like Utopia The reason being we have reached a level in Bangalore Where I think there has been a lot of haphazard developments and then like the gentleman saying Husband works in one area why it works in another area even if you had to invent these TODs How could this really translate into a reality because we are already into it But the city may be constructing a wonderful city out there well-planned, but then we exist outside of it Hoping that somebody gets an employment inside the city the other person's lose outside. So I don't know how one can you know Literally integrate this what would be interesting would be to know How has any other city of this nature ever implemented any such plan? Where development has happened haphazard it There's been problems. He said is there a model which can be emulated here Which has already been done elsewhere if the panel has some answers. It would be interesting Navi Mumbai which was originally thought of actually it is the first TOD development of India and The how it has developed. I think it's reasonably successful, right? To some extent powai in Bombay is reasonably successful the amdabad experiment is starting to show results You can see that the amdabad is a similar problem to Bangalore It's a radial city and it has a bus rapid transit rather than a metro But the it is starting your what is happening is that the corridors are being designated as premium Affair the parking has been reduced on all those corridors and it is start and you can already see along the river Front and all that you can see that the changes are happening, but it's still early days. You can't nobody has a I mean on one side. I was just telling him that you know somebody told me yesterday that TOD is promoted by Train metro rail and bus companies to sell more trains and buses. It's also may be true never know My my view is that if you look at the number of people living in Congested cities as it is now While we talk about transport oriented development as a future thing I think the bigger problem is exactly the kind of thing that you are talking about in terms of where we are already now I think the transport oriented development as a concept if it is limited to the future And it's not picking at the current set of problems at very very micro levels They're going to keep the people who are living in the existing cities millions of them in misery for a very long time I think the TOD has to have a bifocal viewpoint about Making lives easier for people who are already stuck in the situation making the situation more efficient Do whatever that is got to be done if it's a if it's a road crossing I think it's absolutely useless if you don't have an escalator on it People in India are not used to climbing up that was such a very high You know better stay in crossing. They won't they won't do it So unless we think about it micro level and make life easier and more efficient for the existing people TOD the fruits of it are going to be seen by the next generation We'd really worry about today and then while we are at it plan for tomorrow As a short-term solution like we can see we were a part of for Toyota Abilities challenge recently to see how the metro stations currently that are planned in within the city to be made more You know pedestrian friendly so what we realized is most of the developers or people who are doing developments and commercial and all those things You only think of what is happening within your property. You know, there's a metro station coming by How can how can you think of partnering with the government and say okay? You have some money of yours your CSR or you can partner and say you can sponsor You know some escalators like this the footpaths Can you park and sub in partner with having cycle stands? Can you partner with you know ride-sharing apps and say okay? We'll give you space to park your bicycles in our place. We'd give you space to Park your cars in this place or the car pulling or the bike pulling kind of services So if you partner with my metro partner with government and say we'll be a part of it There's value addition to your own property as well the pedestrians You know pedestrianization cycling walking all this will improve if you see for example even yes There are huge developments which are almost about 21 floors surrounding the metro station But none of them have thought of investing on the footpaths surrounding the metro station You cannot once you get off the metro you can't get your property You have to again probably take a car or you will take an Uber to land your way to your property Which is just about 500 meters from your place So as builders I feel as an immediate step there are already centers you already have your property Can you work with local residents when we are trying as an experiment in Marathali station now? See if you can work around at least say 200 meters or 500 meters around your own properties and see how you can partner with the government If you expect government to do everything it will never happen And we'll just keep having talks and nothing will progress So if you can extend that way that would be the first step to see how we can improve these station access to pedestrians and Coming specifically to your question Whether it is to be or creating cities around Bangalore any concept is fine Bangalore has already grown half as early so there is I don't think there is any one concept would work here Maybe each pocket will have to work out a different concept like you see micro level Bhartya is there gateway is there But it has to be replicated in the entire bangalore not in pockets But everything should be linked together and we have to probably we had to we can find a new concept We have brains here a committee with the nurse in many others can be can be used To to create a concept for Bangalore, which is already grown that heavily But the problem is nobody is thinking about it if there is will there certainly is a way even today Bangalore Can be brought back to its old glory even small things like you see if you go to Delhi I'm not talking about the macro level. I'm talking about certain small things which are being undone We had roundabouts or circles what we call in Bangalore, which used to give very smooth the traffic movement Even till recently there were some no roundabouts, but still some crossroads without any signal It was having a smooth crack traffic law, but I see that there is a sudden Multiplication of signals everywhere whether this traffic is there or not There is signals and your hold-up traffic number one your wasting time number two your wasting fuel number three You are adding to the road rage. There are small small things which can be done Reintroduced some roundabouts not in every place many places in Delhi There are roundabouts till today. No signals traffic movement is very smooth to Signal cycles three minutes. It's many many places on Sundays We just simply wait and everybody every every other road is empty and everybody is tempted to Violate jump the signal. So these are certain things which can be done at the micro level and at macro level There should be some thought with a nice group of People like Narsimhan and others who will bring out a new concept or a multiple concept Which is mixture of all the existing concepts Yes, sir, please We hand over the mic to the gentleman then okay, so my apologies sir Okay, last question sure See basically, you know the builders like you guys need to work with the format I don't understand one thing in the in Bangalore majority of the IT crowd is in Whitefield or Sarjapur or Outer Ring Road But it's still metro is planned on the Kanakpura Road or you know initially which is in the old Bangalore So I would say like until and unless the quality of the system Won't improve in that case is difficult, you know You can implement, but it's still you know you guys need to work with the government. So this is Aman from Agrawal reality. Thank you Okay, thank you, sir, and See as I think many of us have also spoken government never see as Intellectuals you have one set of ideas of how the city should work and the government does the exact opposite because they have other Intentions of doing it. It's not that they didn't know that Whitefield needs for a metro first But they had other ideas. So I think as a group we should see with what is provided. How can we work best in that system? I'm sure now where metro is coming up There are a lot of developers who bought land and doing a lot of stuff Can those developers work together and see how can we better utilize those stations, right? Can you create at least the last mile connected between your developments and those metro stations coming up is what developers should think All of us want to do good to the city fine But can you come together forget your competition between your builders and say all our properties? Can we come together and do the best thing? Can you put loop systems of you know last mile connectivity with all electric rickshaws or buses or autos? Whatever that can give you a last mile connectivity and all your properties will increase but we don't think of that We only think okay government has not done this what can we do about it? I think it should be we have to be proactive in most of things they will do exactly what should not be done Right like Bangalore you see the TOD is put as a concept if government of India's policy says TOD should be there But if you see today's BDA's master plan that's announced. It's exactly opposite. It's it's TOD is promoted such a big way Non-motorized transport is provided by the way and government wants to put flyovers so that will always happen So we should see how we can work with the government and see when they are working We should be even more tactical and say how we can make best use of what they've already given to our system I'm on great question, and I'll sum it up very quickly. I know we are running short of time So as as Amit said he and his wife in Gurgaon work at the opposite ends I and my wife work together on Sajapur road good advantages every time she tells me to go to hell I start driving there, you know, it's it's already held there But I would sum it up with one line, and I think that's becoming extremely crucial From the question that emanates from here You know everybody in terms of a customer and a client will ask for a beautiful place I think it's the Responsibility of the real estate fraternity Whether it's builders whether it's developers or whether it's anyone else connected with real estate to make that place beautiful and work with the government and Todd in various parts needs to be taken up to to set up the transit systems to make the place nice It will ultimately lead to better salability and that's very visible from the statistics of wherever it has been implemented I was just about to say that to sum up I think we've had a fantastic session The cities are extremely complex. They are the layers of intricacies that are built into it There's not just one policy, but we have to make our cities more livable whether it's TOD or any other policy that we put in and Work together as a group as a community and work with the government to make sure our cities are much better So thank you everyone. It was a pleasure being on this panel. Thank you so much Much I'm gonna request all of you to please remain on the stage And if I may please invite Mr. Santosh Kumar from Supreme Industries to please come on stage to present the token of Gratitude to all of our speakers for the fantastic insights that they've shared and also the valuable presence with us this afternoon And meanwhile, let's keep that applause going to thank all of our speakers ladies and gentlemen for all those individual inputs as well And for giving a beautiful head start to the conclave Well, thank you very much if you can all come together for a group photograph as well all the panel members They please come together for a group photograph, please