 and I put you next to me well first we're gonna I'm gonna do the House rules yeah okay all right well welcome everyone I wanted to go through some House rules for Bloomberg television this is a big honor to be first off in Africa at such an exciting time and to be have been invited by the World Economic Forum to moderate this panel just a couple of things that will help us make it as interesting as it can be first off I would ask the people on the sides if you don't mind to move into the center so we can fill the sort of it does that work with people or and the people at the back if you could move forward sort of we want to fill the center and and fill out from there thank you very much while you're doing that I would remind you would be extremely helpful if you turn off your telephones and I'll actually give you some time to do that as for questions please do ask questions there's nothing worse for a moderator than an audience that doesn't ask questions so please do that but when you do just a couple of things first off please stand when you ask a question identify yourself identify who you're directing your question to because we do have five panelists today and finally and I mean this respectfully please make sure that your question is actually a question we've all been at panels where they've been hijacked by speeches right so enough of that not don't mean to lecture as for your microphones all of you you can be assured your microphones do work this was something that the technical guys asked me to let you know you don't need to worry anyone who wants to use a microphone just assume it's working no need to tap it or do anything like that the structure of this conversation is quite simple we're going to have a conversation amongst the speakers to begin with and then I'm going to bring or they are more than welcome to bring you into the conversation so just let us know or me know that you would like to ask a question and we're gonna make sure that happens and finally you know if it wasn't already clear I wanted to point out that we at Bloomberg television are gonna televise this so you're gonna have to unfortunately tolerate a little TV part at the beginning where I address the camera over there instead of looking at you which would be of course more natural wouldn't it so that's it thank you very much for being here this should be a very interesting panel and I think we'll begin and during which I will introduce of course our our our speakers just choose so you happy with that yes that was me yeah yeah you're happy how can the international community work better with Africans to build the confidence economies and are the current partnerships actually helping an Africa on the rise I'm Ryan Chilicote welcome to Bloomberg's panel at the World Economic Forum in Cape Town and please give a very warm welcome to our distinguished speakers with us today we have Mustafa coach chairman of coach holdings Turkey's largest industrial group and an investor now a direct investor in South Africa Mario Machongo chairman of Millennium BIM Mozambique's largest bank former prime minister of Mozambique Pumsile Mlambo Nutka who runs an educational foundation here called U Mlambo that is focused on teaching principle principles at schools to be better leaders she is also a former vice president of South Africa Jin Hua Chun special representative of the Chinese government here in Africa and former ambassador for China to South Africa a post he gave up just last year and finally on the flank we have the foreign minister of Sweden Mr. Carl built thank you very much all for joining us Pumsile I'm gonna put the first question to you how would you characterize the state of cooperation between let's say South Africa and the international community in terms of helping South Africa and South Africans grow economically well I think South Africa is now at a stage where we don't get a lot of aid type support but it's more opportunities for investment and for business our side of the bargain is to make the environment attractive and to cut the red tape and all the other things that business people complain about and the side of the business is obviously to make meaningful investments especially in the parts of the economy where we need investment manufacturing for instance being one as a country that has a strong natural resource industries would like to see a value addition in in in South Africa and investment in human resource which is always a problem in some aspects in fact in a lot of aspects of our economy so if business is able to couple its investment with investment in human resources that clearly makes the partnership more exciting for us ambassador chong I wanted to ask you first off about I guess Africa's relation China's relationship with Africa trade now at 200 billion dollars that right near the figure yes you'll be well aware that there's a conversation in Africa not only in Africa that perhaps China's role on the continent is inappropriate that it's gone from a helping hand to and an investor to as the central the governor of the central bank of Nigeria just put it as as something of a colonialist what would you say to that of course I cannot agree with the kind of accusation saying that China trade with Africa is kind of colonialist style the reason for some people to criticize this is because they think the structure of that kind of trade by for African countries by selling materials out and buying manufactured goods is bad its colonial style and the reason for that I can quite understand but the result the result 50 years ago and the result of today is total different because in those days wonder in the kind of colonial system you sell your material with such a minimum price like sometimes a six cents a barrel with that kind of exportation the African country can barely feed themselves by exporting but now with the price of over 100 US dollars in a barrel that huge differences that by this kind of exportation you can not only feed yourself but you can also accumulate the capital for your own development particularly you can put money in the infrastructure this is a total different result because every country need to start from some point for its own development the investment the money will not come to Africa for nothing so with change of this kind of raw material for not only your food your clothes your housing but also for the development and for the infrastructure this is some kind of starting point with starting from here we will see a rising Africa so I don't think the trade at the present at this time with this kind of price for both sides is colonialists at all no it is not Mr. Machungu let me ask you at the view for Mozambique home to the biggest natural gas find in a decade Mozambique is in a unique situation where it has to it needs to be very careful to make sure that that resource is actually helpful to the people of Mozambique I know you don't agree with the editorial that Mr. Sunusi wrote don't see China as evil how can you how can you go about now building relationships with international organizations I mean are you worried that you know they're basically interested in your gas and nothing more yes I think that we have discovered a huge amount of gas and we are going to as the geologists say we're going to continue to discover more gas as offshore or inshore in Mozambique but was starting we're not exploding yet but we have a responsibility in Mozambique on building conditions so that we can benefit all of us from these natural resources rotation one very important step that we can really take is really human resource capabilities from the beginning we have to know how to discuss our contracts how to bargain how to take advantage is of these natural resources so we doubt really experts and capable human resource we're going to lose our food there's an issue with the people in Mozambique Mozambique themselves being prepared prepared and I think that we are preparing ourselves in order to make up global a long-term view a prospective view and explained our people what we want to do in Mozambique with this wealth and everybody have to understand everybody have a role to play in the development of Mozambique for entrepreneurs government communities everybody have to know what is our object what are our objectives what steps we are going to do this depend on us doesn't depend on international community or other partners that's depend on us what we're going to do in the future depend on Mozambique people and Mozambique governments mr. coach you just made a pretty sizable investment in the South African economy in the last couple years purchasing a manufacturer from a manufacturer here defy how do you intend to go about helping Africa in South Africa specifically in its development through through your investment first of all I would like to discuss a little bit about the history of our relations as a country and as a company with the sub-Saharan countries which goes back not very late but almost a decade ago before we are very historically strong trade and cultural and political ties with the North African countries but in the last 10 years with the new administration and it would have very proactive Turkish foreign policy Turkish companies have been very very active in sub-Saharan countries Turkish airlines been flying 37 destinations 37 that's very big and the numbers of embassies rose from 8 to 31 in the last three years in such a short short time and the Turkish goods were flowing in and in the areas of construction and infrastructure they were also very very active and the number the trade volume has rose in tenfold from two to twenty billion dollars in the last decade when you look at Chinese figures of course we have a long way to go but when you consider the point where we're coming from the level it's quite impressive and the government is also very very active and helpful for the Turkish companies to do that when we come to our story we had to differentiate our markets because we didn't want to have our export activities our eggs in one basket where we were concentrating very heavily on Europe and once the crisis have started one of our best businesses or core business I would say is appliance business we have decided to tap on South of South Africa and and included defy to our portfolio which was a perfect match and you believe that investing in running in a manufacturing firm here in in South Africa is presumably obviously a way to help South Africa develop as opposed to a lot of nations who are looking at the sub-Saharan Africa or Africa is a whole a lot of people are emphasizing are concentrating on natural resources as it was mentioned before whereas we are very a long-term committed for South Africa's and neighboring nations welfare and growth so we have decided to do an investment in production which is the largest Turkish investment in Africa so far Minister Bill let me ask you you know to be fair and not just beat up on and ask provocative questions of our colleague from from the government of China President Zuma recently said that Western companies need to change the way they do business in Africa and in South Africa do you think you know as an individual that's involved in formulating the European Union's policy on Africa corporations need to think change the way they do business here well that is of course entirely dependent upon the individual businesses and there might be bad ones there might be good ones but in general terms the relationship is course changing both from the governmental point of view and from the private point of view there's sort of individual links between individual European and African countries there's a long history there but essentially it's been to large extent a relationship centered on development aid for fairly long time I mean the European Union provides roughly 70% of all of development aid in the world and the bulk of that I would argue goes to Africa that's still got to be very and Sweden among them being one one of the biggest contributors for a very long time but gradually of course the relationship is changing over to trade investment and I would also add political cooperation on peace and security issues trying to support the building up of integration and cooperation in Africa the African Union absolutely essential to the future of the continent then look at the individual aspects of it I mean just mention one where by Sean's Sweden is fairly heavily engaged in telecommunications I saw the African development banks had estimated that roughly half of the improvement in the growth prospect of Africa during the last few years can be attributed to the mobile telecommunication technologies they're rolling out all over the place they're transforming Africa they're opening up new horizons primarily for the new generation and we have a partnership Sweden Ericsson with roughly 10 African countries rolling out what we call broadband for all and in a couple of years say five years I would think that most of Africa will be covered by mobile band with mobile broadband networks that is a huge issue when it comes to creating new possibilities for economic political social development of of the countries but it requires careful management and that's where the partnership is an important aspect of it Mr. Kursh if I could ask you when you look at and please feel free to jump in on one another without me asking questions when you look at Turkey and what you're doing in Turkey and you look at South Africa the new market that you've entered over the last couple of years what similarities do you see and and you see any room for what you're already doing in Turkey that could be useful here in in South Africa that helps you of course but also helps development first of all when you get the demographic there are a lot of parallels it's a emerging market young population dynamic market the legislations and regulations are more functioning properly and when we look at the micro level between coach groups archaic division and DeFi we have a lot of similarities strong market position very good brand awareness very strong sales and after sales service an excellent knowledge of local brands so we that was a perfect fit but of course it also brings its challenges in terms of social development with it and to to to find proper qualified skilled labor force becomes always a challenge not only for us but for also other in that industries I'm sure in that sense we have launched a program in Turkey to develop the vocational schools which are very very important to find the right people develop the right skills for the right industry and I think that would be very instrumental for for South Africans to do something like that if they haven't done it yet and statistic it's proven in Turkey that these graduates of these schools have much better chance to find a proper job than a normal college graduate because after all the college graduate once they start doing business they have to be trained at the beginning whereas here or let's put it this way when you have 10 11% unemployment and when you have difficulties finding a foreman in one of your factories that's a serious problem madam look maybe instead of talking so much about what hasn't worked with what would you like to see in terms of what would be really useful it perhaps in addition to or on the back of that kind of idea in South Africa to move South Africa forward and I would strongly support the idea when investor has a determined training program to enhance its its productivity and its business but hopefully also to train for surplus so that people can also become self-employed using those same skills or for that matter maybe not necessarily work for competition but work in the economy and I think the investment that Mr. Cross is talking about defies one of the homegrown South African companies so for us it is actually exciting if we see some of our technologies I think people of my age group in South Africa may still remember DeFi but right now there's been lots in the markets that we even forget about that brand so hopefully that creates an exciting and opportunity as well so yes a collaboration of investment in manufacturing in infrastructure that comes with training is most welcome I also just want to highlight the the need in in the South African economy for the networking infrastructure the ICT related infrastructure railroad and for that matter we still have possibilities in that and of course say energy which everybody knows about is an area where we've got we've got great needs and all of that infrastructure all of that kind of investment that it has a direct contribution to the performance of our economy it's something that we go around looking for Ambassador Chon I guess I should say I was laughing there because before we got here Mr. Coach was mentioning when you when you when you talked about the brand defy that Mr. Coach was saying that in fact since he's come to South Africa he's been engaged in quite a fight for a market share with Korean and Chinese companies yeah yeah that this is a competitive place for international companies competing with one another and maintaining jobs at a minimum in South Africa I want to Ambassador Chon I wanted to ask you if there's a misperception about China's role here in in Africa and if China is doing things that that aren't just about grabbing resources of course people always try to find some place or something they can cause other people's attention so criticize China becomes sometimes a little bit fashionable yeah yeah and they trying to this just like Mr. Coach said that competition here in this continent sometimes it's fierce I also have heard Chinese companies complain about when they failed in the competition they complain about that I say blame yourself if you fail in the competition but I always I always think this good thing to compete China suffered a lot when we start our own reform and open policy because suddenly we see the flood coming into China from Western country the kind of goods which is better quality lower price and in the first 10 years we see thousands of company and the factory scope bankruptcy millions of works workers lay redundant or simply being go unemployed and the whole society is full of frustration and anxiety about what's happening what are we doing but eventually when these Chinese businessmen start to learn how to become competitive and to compete now every everyone knows what is happening now in China in a lot of fields Chinese goods become cheaper better or up to the market standard so one point in the article published by the governor of Nigerian central bank is that I see this as a bright point is that he called on African people shall we come to compete with the Chinese in manufacturing in every fields yeah that's something very good because our success is out of our competition with with the people who come to work who come to do business in China so I think it's very good for African people to say that now it's time we come to compete with you actually the job when I was ambassador in South Africa is to help the textile industry in South Africa to find out what went wrong here I invite a group of Chinese experts textile industry come to try to diagnose because we we want this kind of competition here if the African textile industry come to compete with China and eventually win the Chinese textile industry I see that's good because when you in some part of the competition you lose you move up to some other area and leave this room to the better one to play here it's a win-win it's a win-win situation we want to create so now I think the big challenge for Chinese company for Chinese people is that how to help Africa to compete with us and to win us in certain area then the job and some of the manufacturer will come into this continent and to make Africa a really coming up economy and the meet the meet the demand of its own people this is what happened in China before we want to repeat this here Adam Nuke I know you don't agree with the view that that it's appropriate to blame China for anything well I think that it's a one-sided argument it's even worse when it comes from the West because I mean who's talking what is this that the West has done which is so superior to the Chinese that you know that they have to be the ones that are criticizing and I'm not saying that there isn't some practices that may you know may not be desirable but also as as governments as regulators in Africa we also have a responsibility to regulate people who do business in our countries so what are the things that we do not accept and why do we allow it so I don't think that it's just I just don't think that it's just as simple as that's that's well well there's something wrong with the Chinese and and therefore we victims why are we victims in our own countries so I just think that it's it's it's more complex than that and I actually find it quite rich when it comes from the West I know you were talking about in Mozambique that Mozambique actually had I guess you could call it manufacturing in the sense of cashew nut processing and it used to be the world's biggest processor of cashew nuts and that somehow as the outside world tried to help Mozambique it destroyed that part of the economy yeah what madam here said it's very crucial and important to stress and agree with her because we need to be ours to have ownership of our policy internal policy and what we want how we want and to whom to what and not to receive duration from outside do that and do that and that one well when we are absorbing outside durations we are losing our personality our own issue what happened with cashew cashew cashew industry in Mozambique just we have pressured to change our policy to defend our industry in Mozambique and what happened is to destroy jobs to destroy industry and to stop the development of cashew. Mozambique was accused of effectively being having protectionist policies and defending its processing. Yes, we have been accused of that but who haven't defended a protected policy so many countries even those who criticize us they have a protected policy before in order to get to have a very developed and so you open up your market and what happened to the your cashew processing we would open market yes we now we open market we are now beginning again to rehabilitate our cashew cashew industry in order to compete again and we did and when you opened it up in the beginning under pressure from outside of Africa where did the cashew processing go well what where did they go we go the cashew process who went to those countries who had really some pleasure to process it like like India for instance. I completely agree with the last two states but African countries have so many internal issues that is a big hurdle in in terms of enhancing trade logistics visa requirements yeah imagine I just read the statistics that 80% of African companies have visa requirements to each other as opposed that number is 30% in Europe so these things have to be overcome before anything else just yesterday was at a business conference of Nigeria and South Africa where they were discussing introducing a visa easing visa restrictions between Africa's two largest economies that that certainly seems surprising to me that there were even visas so you were gonna say yeah to to to make trade much easier in this continent this is very vital I think it's important I think not only the visa of course people talking about visa about the free free flow of people also the infrastructure is very important I was told by my friend the African Union say that the trade in this continent among themselves is only 12% of the whole foreign trade of this continent that means more than 80% of the trade first go to some other place in the world and probably they still come back the infrastructure on this continent is really a serious problem probably that's the heritage from those colonial years because my influence or my place will not go directly to you they first go to London from London to Paris and from Paris to another French controlled place that was the old structure and the old play that make this kind of cost of trade between African countries too big they can afford one does have to wonder if the same 37 flights that exist between Turkey and Africa exist within lot of people come to Istanbul that want to go to commute to Africa and it has become a huge no minister bill now is going to make the same point I mean it's fairly obvious and I think Europe can demonstrate an example what we have gained by integration you mentioned they figured 12% for inter African trade I think you if you take away oil it's going to be 21 roughly slightly better but in Europe it's 65% in Asia is 40% yes and even if we talk it's like Sweden we are a country that build our prosperity upon being successful on the trading side being an open economy and we trade with South Africa and China and Turkey and whatever but primarily we trade as a matter of fact with our close neighbors with the Germans and the Norwegians and other people because the smaller medium-sized enterprises they are more comfortable trading nearby and when they grow then they go into the more far away markets and and here I think there's a huge issue ahead for the leaders of Africa to take away these barriers it's a question of infrastructure need to say ports and railroads and airports and whatever telecommunications again is important but also sheer bureaucracy sheer bureaucracy that is a legacy of past period in the political development of of these countries and here Africa can I mean Europe what might be one example but you can look around the world and see the more integrated you are the more open you are the better is your growth prospect and then of course the additional issue of really making that growth available for all second-day issue well come second I would say not the second day become second first you need to have growth and then you may need to make certain that it reaches everyone the one quick question for any of you you know there's this phrase going around quite popular right now Africa doesn't need a handout it doesn't need a hand up it needs a handshake has the handout hurt Africa and I have spoken with several business people one in private equity another said actually when they were doing charity work here they felt that they were less helpful in what they were trying to do in Africa than when they just pursued profit because profit they said actually is what it creates jobs and needs to happen here but you have to have profit to in order to make philanthropic activity absolutely and if they go hand in hand without realizing profit you cannot do these things or charity work at all I think all aid and not trade is a big problem and countries that different levels of development if you look at the countries in Africa that are in this developed countries and you're only going to focus on trade and not give any aid that could be difficult but too much aid with no prospect for trade is definitely a you know a big problem so again I just don't think that it's a black it's a black and answer but it's important for us to grow our economies at the back of genuine entrepreneurs because aid is not going to give us that and interestingly I just point out to let you go that the that Great Britain just canceled its aid to South Africa I'm not sure it was a huge amount of aid right it was something like 30 million pounds but the the foreign secretary of the United Kingdom said something to the effect of well South Africa isn't the today isn't the South Africa that it was 70s or 80s yeah you were gonna say yes I was saying that really it's very important to to to beat up infrastructure in our country and to reshape our regional is the corporation institutions so that we can face together and external partners why why why this is necessary because the creation of small-medium enterprises which really collaborate on building a new economy which really take advantages of the emerging economies developing our countries taking advantage of what are producing now for instance medium small and medium enterprises they are very important to spread out at the net worth of industrial relations in our country and so that the ad value of our processing is remains in our country because we have only big anchor big industries and without small and medium enterprise and the intermediate intermediate consumption we come from abroad and we're not going going to have good good good advantage and using our raw materials in our countries that's why I think that in regional level we have to build our view on how to build up me a small major enterprise do that means to build a medium medium class which is very important for the stability of countries for stability of business and for stability of our macroeconomic policies to recap I think perhaps three clear takeaways from this conversation is that perhaps we shouldn't be talking about how international entities or overseas entities can help Africans grow perhaps the conversation should be about how Africans within this very large continent can help one another to grow together that that should be the focus the second that Africans as you were pointing out need to define how they're going to their policies and how they're going to interact with with other markets and be a China be it the European Union and finally that you know maybe the West has no role here or anyone any entity outside of Africa in dictating how that development should happen those are three pretty obvious takeaways I guess from that conversation perhaps now we bring in the audience that I'd ask you to please do ask questions stand up identify yourself please ma'am and and ask your question just tell us who it who it's for good afternoon my name is Lord as Kaposso Fernandez I'm coming from Angola I'm a lawyer my question goes straight to Mr. Song of China my view of global partnerships on discussions we are having it's more related with the most important thing for a success of any organization who is human capital so if human capital has not success I don't think anything has a success because people makes a difference so I agree with the sentence that partnerships now are more shaking hands so my point with China is how China is thinking on on the experience of transferring now how on training people from the country you where you are investing why am I asking this when we see China coming and we are we are we agree that we believe on global partnerships and we we want certain and all the countries coming to Africa and invest but you have to trust people from the country we're coming into to be fair okay so my question was was already done what how you're gonna do to transfer knowledge to nationals from the countries thank you can I instead of bringing too many Chinese is for our country everybody has to do that not just the Chinese I understand the question is yeah you have a reason to to complain Angola become a particular case actually what I saw in Angola not same in South Africa because the things happened quite differently here you know when you say China often think which part of China you mean do you mean Chinese government or Chinese business you know sometimes they are not the same but the government's got a monolithic yeah we always try to encourage Chinese company do things according to the local laws and the customer and the benefit them did you sometimes you when you are a businessman what you care most it's not what God come told me to do is something which brings me the biggest the profit when they can have a choice finding the local people to fill in the post or finding the Chinese to do it they always find the most economical one of course for them to find the Chinese guys coming to work for them could be easy to communicate easy to do probably even pay less than the local people it's not the Chinese only the Chinese government's regulation but also the local government regulation that kind of thing not happening in South Africa because the immigration rules and the laws here is very strict I went to one of the facts you call the hyacinth they employed 3,000 local workers working on the sampling line to produce TV electric white electric appliance and supply the whole African continent so Chinese government that need to work together with the hosting country to enforce their immigration law to let the all these industry to provide the equal opportunities for the local labor market but the one challenge that can they provide a qualified labor force this is one challenge sometimes we go too extreme on one side the business want to have all the employees be Chinese but here on the other side the local NGOs community societies want to have all the laborers to be their own people that's it's quite difficult that's something that you were talking about as an issue in most yeah sometimes we can do the trainee side by side working with a skilled Chinese worker that's something we can try we encourage that I think both government Chinese government African government need to do more to exploit the most healthy way to exploit and to develop the local skilled labor force and to face the challenge in the future so even if Mozambique wanted to have its own labor force do all the work in the gas fields to extract the gas could it do that with the with the labor force of Mozambique be able to do that at the moment we can do that of course we can do that because we don't have a level for training is experts to to work in very very capital intensive specialized and the very capital intensive work it's very difficult sir good right over here in the middle sir go ahead can I go ahead I would you and you may go ahead yes I'm the miss of finance from from wonder and mine actually was just saying agree with what they have said and I agree with the emphasis on infrastructure and we'll be talking about it in the next generation because this is something that is very very expensive but within the Africa there are some small thing that we can do that really can facilitate how we trade and one of them is what we learned one that anybody from any country in Africa does not need a visa to come to one right now and anybody coming from East African region does not need a work permit and that has allowed the workers to come and start working the next day because you had a problem of the lower skills that you could not get anywhere so easily and by just removing that that blockage it helped really in terms of contributing to economic growth and be fair your question and my question is how how why can't we do is do this in Africa in a static in East Africa in a course and other places why can't we just start with the basics the non-tariff barriers the visas the work permits if we just started with those on other things can answer why Africa can't do it you're looking at me I'm guessing coach doesn't want to answer that well I know because the South Africa sometimes right law wrong has been accused of being the elephant in the room as far as that is concerned but at the same time we do have we host the largest number of Africans who are not South Africans in our country people find a way of getting to South Africa and I think we have been asking ourselves and about an orderly facilitated mechanism to attract skilled people make it easy to to come in and at the same time also address the issue of brain drain because there is also a challenge that we face in Southern Africa where South Africa can easily cream the top skills of many of our countries in the region because they may be some aspects of our economy that are much more attractive than other countries something that you also don't want so I see I see Mr. Bill shaking his head over there yeah but I mean I do agree that we definitely need to move forward to implement the non-tariff barriers and the agreements that we already have but somehow we just don't get to implement them Mr. Bill what I was shaking my head because we've had exactly the same discussion in Europe particularly when it came to the enlargement with the new countries of these two hundred million people and there was the fear that there's going to be a brain drain and indeed it happened a lot of people moved from say Poland or Latvia or whatever and they went to Sweden and the UK and whatever but that's the first phase of it the second phase is them acquiring skills that they didn't have before and moving back and then sort of contributing to the development of their own countries so I think the overall experience that we have is that yes they tend to move away for a while but it is to the benefit of the development of the countries themselves in the long run as a matter of fact critically important please sir stand up and go ahead my name is Peter Draper I'm Vice-Chair of the Forums Trade Council South African question goes to Ambassador Zhong I'm really flattered concerns China's special economic zones program for Africa so I'm wondering firstly what is the strategic thinking behind it secondly what are the mechanics how would they work how do they work these special economic zones and then thirdly a request can you transfer that knowledge to South Africa where we have been trying for years to establish special economic zones that really haven't got off the ground thank you very much for the question the strategy I sometimes I doubt about that that is such a strategy for China to develop some kind of things that we plan to set up this kind of special economic zones in Africa because personally I'm sometimes not totally agree with that you know when China set up that special economic zone it's because China is a quite isolated economic entity during the time when we start our open land the reform policy that is it's totally as isolated from the outside economic world but we were very cautious that we don't want to open the door immediately to open to the probably economic flood come into China to do to actually destroy this destroy us so we'll be cautious to open a small window there that you try whether we can get ourselves used to the economic order of the outside world that's the meaning that's the reason we set up this economic zone but when we come to this continent I sometimes I joke to people here is an open there you don't even have the roof why do you want to open that window on the on the wall because it's a total almost economic free zone here in this continent so the market is much mature here much more than our Chinese period in when we start our reform but eventually I think probably it isn't not totally the same story with what we have in China suspect a special economic zone is some kind of industry asset it is not for the open policy on one side but it's provide some kind of service provide the facility need to set up their industry in one particular area you put money concentrated in one place develop this place for more industry to move into this place not on policy side but on the service side I think that's good that probably proved to be successful we have few I visited in Nigeria in in Ethiopia it's on the brink of going up so that's something we encourage you to try but we are not quite sure whether it can work out or not please thank you I'm a global shaper from Cairo's hub well there is a consensus that building entrepreneurship and small enterprises is a focal point for starting a homegrown development in Africa but the biggest challenge is that oftentimes entrepreneurs and small enterprises are faced by risk and the risk is the oxygen investment but we there is nothing who is guaranteeing for those who might face failure to come back and join the market so my question for the panelists don't you think it is really a big room for cooperation between partnership between the international community and investment community with Africa to build a room or a pool for to guarantee and take the burden of risk from those who are coming new to the market which coach I think here the the important thing is that the private sector has to work very much hand-in-hand with NGOs and garments together in order to build something and if you really want to develop a skilled labor work they should not be only left to the garments but private sector has to be completely involved in that because they know what the requirements are for what industry for what kind of labor skill work so they have to design this system together with the garments and also NGOs will also play a very important role and when you came with your investment and bought DeFi did people say oh money's coming in that's fantastic or did you did you said well there was a little bit of concern that this guy's gonna come in and start firing people there was a lot of skepticism at the beginning new mover coming from Turkey and acquiring a big chunk of asset here and they didn't know whether we're gonna shut down as plants or layoff people and the unions were very hesitant and the workers were very fidgety but in a very very short time we really comfort them and thanks God we didn't shut down in plants within layoff any people quite the contrary in two of the plants we have introduced state-of-the-art technologies that we had in built new production lines and now producing a very efficient water and energy efficient products that are sold at affordable prices please yes please okay thank you mr. chair and my name is table crazy I'm from the Soto working for private sector foundation of the Soto and my question they will be directed to Mr. Machungo and in most of our countries here in Africa you will find that before some of the development initiatives can be implemented one will find that there are some consultations made at national level from various stakeholders so regrettably most of those initiatives do not yield the results as per the original specification so in the case of Mozambique particularly on gas exploration one would be interested to know the key features in your consultation processes you know to look after you know to ensure that there will be a win-win situation thank you before I go to your question I want to rise one thing that really we have to take serious is the problem of of developing SMEs in our country and why we have this investor when they come to our countries they really will not this is not easy in some circumstances for you see in Mozambique to find a local people prepared to partner with them because they don't have capital they don't have a spec experience and so on but it's not wrong to see things like that we have an not tangible capital that can be used by foreigners to engage local entrepreneurs with them what is the knowledge of culture the knowledge of institutions to know how the government or the laws operated in Mozambique it's very important to make this partnership work it's very important I will present my own experience the Portuguese partner when they come to Mozambique to build up the new startup operation banking in Mozambique they said we want only 50 percent of shares they're remaining to Mozambique partners but we said but was a big part of the don't have capital they will they will they have capital they don't realize that they have capital because I will not work in Mozambique because I don't know the situation in Mozambique I don't know their culture of Mozambique I don't know the institution of Mozambique I need you to in the boards in order to help me to develop my business that's very important to take is it that's an account that in doing these people are going to learn this is the kind of partnership cutting on the train ship train ship to train ship and for instance we began in Mozambique with in this bank with more than 60 percent of employees were Portuguese now we had only five percent because the majority would train it at job and now the bank is ruled by Mozambicans okay please I'm Rajesh from United Force for us company in agribusiness we have been participating in rural Africa especially for agriculture and we think that we think that probably agriculture would be one of the most solution for the for the Africa because it can help in the unemployment youth unemployment because of the land and water resources which is unfortunately we have not touched the subject I'd like to know or if someone from the panel could answer that what you have been thinking up should take Africa this question further to utilize the water resources land resources and build on the agriculture which can solve not only the African problem it can also solve our food security issue the question is concisely question is how we should able to take it further to concrete actions anybody want to make one concrete suggestion about how economic development could be fostered no I be asked one aspect of it that you mentioned in water management issues hasn't been touched upon they are very different in different parts of the African continent but but in some parts of Africa they are of course extremely political and extremely sensitive let's go to the other end of Africa the entire Nile which goes from the heart of Africa to the Mediterranean and of course the Nile is the source of life for X numbers of countries and the management of that particular water is an extremely political important issue but as we now see both numerous schemes to use it for hydropower which is essentially a good thing and we have massive investments coming in in terms of agribusiness there's got to be a short one not necessarily shortage but there's going to be the need to expand food production and I remember figure that 60% of the land available for cultivation in the word as of yet is in Africa and we see investments coming in from India Gulf countries and whatever then the competition for these water resources got to be more fierce and there will be the need for more political agreement between states and how to manage that the Congo river is another example which is a huge in terms of water resources extremely important to have agreements and how to manage that both in terms of the power availability and in terms of the water for agricultural production but Africa is rich both in land and in water but it needs to be managed please we only have a few more minutes so if you can ask the question quickly that would be fantastic so we can have a few questions yeah my name is Philip Kiriro farmer from Kenya the president of the Eastern African Farmers Federation my issue can you hold the microphone a little bit closer my question goes to Machego on land Mozambique has become a fertile destination for foreign and direct investments in agriculture so my question is one what are the incentives in your opening remarks you also said that when you actually seek partnership and investments you negotiate with the people and you are clear on benefits how do you see what what have you negotiated with the people as regards that process of foreign direct investment in agriculture that has actually led to land acquisition finally how do you see that process benefiting or contributing to a national full security the long-term and especially in developing a domestic agricultural sector that can sustain long-term production and sustainable agriculture yeah in agriculture foreign direct investment in agriculture in agriculture we can see in which products you want to develop we want to invest in foodstuffs in sugarcane or in forestry and what in which kind because if we take for instance sugarcane we can take two possibilities one is to rely on the local people to grow sugarcane by themselves and supply your factory but we have to train them to grow better the sugarcane to supply supply of that's because you we have land in Mozambique of course but if you want million of hectares of lands well of land you have talked to people because people are there we have our own law of land land law we have our own law land law and it's important to talk with communities to make community to understand what we are going to do and what is their role in your project and I want to I don't want to talk about fiscal incentives on something like that but these incentive that you have to engage people local people in your project and to make local people to to be in peace with you when you're in your project as provider of raw materials or as workers of your project okay but beside as I told you beside that we have I don't know if I understood well your patient but beside that we have fiscal incentives this is a quick question for ambassador shown on the back of the issue of foreign direct investment I mean you know I guess the trade relationship between China and Africa couldn't grow much more than certainly can't grow at the pace that it already has right over the last decade something like 12-fold it's right well what's the future hold is it going to continue to grow and his foreign direct investment going to be a bigger part of it I guess it's like you were saying it's easy to beat up on the Chinese but but maybe actually some of that money that's been pouring in is it going to continue to pour in I'm not quite sure actually this kind of questions can only be answered by the market themselves you have all your wish you have one you want this you want that but sometimes the fact and not to be not so ideal like what you think even for the trade I think 200 billions big enough but is that a potential yes but could there be anything now you export to Africa then they move the assembly line into African continent then the trade figure will reduce the direct investment will be bigger so that could be changed from time to time it all total depends on how the Chinese economy itself will transform into next stage become a question march there and also African size African side what kind of economy they are going to grow into the next 10 20 years please sir is your microphone thank you very much my name is Mohammed Foufana a global shipper from Liberia my question goes to madame I during your deliberation there was a statement please on the floor by the one I read that Africa do need and out we need and shake now in so doing you also budget by saying we need a train entrepreneurs so train entrepreneurs my concern is what is the best mechanism or what are those recommendation a suggestion that can be put the flow of African leaders to sustain the trend of entrepreneurs for economic growth in Africa thank you I'm not an expert in the training of entrepreneurs but I think in a generic sense one of the shortcomings of our education system has been that we've prepared a lot of our students to seek work not to create work and to become entrepreneurs so in addition to the training that we provide to people post school so that they can enter into identifiable businesses there's just the psyche of what we prepare people to do while they are still at the at the lower grades so for me that I think is where the biggest shortcoming is let's prepare our young people to seek to be employers to seek to create job to seek to be entrepreneurs and I think as parents certainly of my generation we thought that it was safer for people to first have a recognizable profession be a doctor be a lawyer and in all of that and I just think that's just it's just not the answer that we need right now and we need to influence the education system to work like that as well we've just got a couple more minutes I want to ask you this has been a very heady conversation we've been talking for an hour you each get 20 seconds the last thing that you would like to say mr. coach 20 seconds what needs to be remembered what would you like to leave the audience with well I think as much as foreign investors have a great responsibility in enhanced enhancing trade in Africa I think the bilateral relations really have to be put in in order that's the most important issue in my opinion the countries in Africa with themselves within mr. Machado the message I said that the real Africa is booming now it's changing now it's time to accommodate all partners emerging economy partners and the traditional partners and to make a trade balance so that you can have a better results on both corporations on both sides I just like that the people that invest in Africa our partners in business ensure that as we grow as they invest in the in the in the growing growing Africa we also address issues of extreme poverty at the same time because I think that it's quite problematic that we are growing but we're seeing extreme poverty persisting and in particular we also invest in women Junhua yeah I think a little about the ladies question to me that to transfer know how to Africa sometimes we ask about how do you become so successful tell me the know how and sometimes probably we emphasize too much on our success forget or ignoring what we have experienced just make people think that Chinese success so easily come with just blink of your finger but actually I can tell you that during the whole process of Chinese reform and open and become so successful full of sweat tears sometimes a little bit of blood it's hard it's really hard and now it's a chance for Africa to come forward to become icing but in the whole process we can share a lot of lessons we learn very hard in our own success and the reform but be prepared there might be some kind of hardship minister built accepting myself you've got the final word on the policy level I would say integration integration integration go for the what is the success of China it ended policies of isolation opened up to the world and integrated with the global economy that's sort of the bottom line also China so integration integration integration that will make Africa much stronger and that would be to the benefit of the entire world all right well let's thank our guests Mustafa coach to my right Mario Machongo Pumsile Lambo Nutka madam Nutka thank you Jinhua Chun Carl Bilt please let's all put our hands together and thank our speakers today thank you very much