 All right, Deborah, what is it, Deboa, you know? Hey, Ron. Hi. Yeah, you were right the first time. It's Deborah. Good. Good. So my question is about altruism and how it got so entrenched. I mean, I know that now it is. And so that makes it really hard to get people to really let go of it in favor of something that's more life-affirming. But how did it get so entrenched in the first place? Seems like people would have been really resistant to accepting a system of morality that says you can't live and be happy. And that even now, when people hear about objectivism and the objectivist ethics, they'd say, oh, there's a system of morality that says I don't have to feel guilty about trying to be happy and take care of myself, but I'm allowed to live and be happy and that it's actually good for me to do that. OK, well, I'm going to drop altruism like a bad habit and go for egoism instead. Like, even now, I'm baffled by the fact that it's so hard to sell that to people. But the fact that it got so entrenched in the first place, it's like as if there were a species of animal or something that they were hell bent on running off a cliff all the time. And that species would not last very long. So what do you think the answer is? I think it makes more sense that it got so entrenched than that it's so difficult today. I can see how it got entrenched. I just don't see why people don't give it up because it's so obviously a failure. And there's an alternative now where there wasn't in the past. So I think it came out of tribal society where it was presented to people as there's no real choice because we have to stick together and the tribe has to survive. And your children depend on the tribe. And you need a sacrifice for the tribe. And it's kind of an aspect of the tribalism collectivism in which we kind of evolved. And as part of that, because we are an animal that requires explanations, why is this happening? Why has that happened? We needed witch doctors, right? Witch doctors was one of the earliest professions I think human beings had because we needed explanations and they came up with these explanations and then they had a very strong incentive to also start guiding our lives and telling us, well, I know how we should live because it's hard because we're not, I don't quite understand how human beings evolved. So human evolution is an interesting science, scientific question because there are lots of different humanoids and Homo sapiens are just one branch that actually landed up dominating. To what extent did the others have free will? Did they have a little bit of free will? Mostly free will, none free. The whole question of when did free will come in and all of that. So imagine going from animal to human suddenly and being completely dependent on your own thinking. Now it didn't happen to one individual, right? It happened over time. And well, we don't know exactly how it happened but it happened somehow. And you're confronted with all this and you don't know. So the witch doctor then hooks up as Iron Man describes it with the Attila, the tribal chief that they basically rule over man for. And most people just go along because they can't imagine an alternative. And it doesn't, nobody really imagines an alternative. Nobody really imagines, you can discover kind of truth or anything outside of the witch doctor until Greece. Until Greece. So then you get this Greek period where suddenly there's this awakening and individualism and heroism. And it's just stunning, right? That they achieved what they achieved and in a sense out of no way, in a deep sense. And then for whatever historical reason and I don't know the history well enough. Amnestyles, Cetillian ethics in particular are not really picked up. And so when Rome rises, there's a search for how to live and what to guide yourself. But there's no clear answers. There's no principles and there's nothing really and it's a very bifurcated society. There's the aristocratic, wealthy. There's the poor, there's slavery. And there's no universal ethics. So yes, the Roman aristocrats have an ethical code that they live by that is not horrible, right? Probably early on becomes more horrible over time but it's probably not pretty good. Maybe even based on some of the Cetillian principles, some idea of pride and honor and things like that. But nobody else in society can and nobody else can afford to. And this is my point about why I understand it back then. What did Hobbes say about human life? Nasty, brutish, short, solitary, something. Nasty, brutish and short. And I went criticizing for saying that. And that's right, as a philosopher that's a horrible thing to say. But that's as a scientist looking out at human beings that's a very accurate thing to say. When he said it in the 17th century, life was nasty, brutish and short. And certainly for poor people in the Roman Empire, life was for the most part nasty, brutish and short. And then comes this religion. Again, we're looking for answers and we're looking for universal answers. And the answer that they give is there is this God and this amazing superhero who died for you so that you could be redeemed and that you could go to heaven and you see him on a cross and he's this magnificent thing that died for you. And isn't that amazing so that you can live? And yes, this life sucks. It's nasty, brutish and short. But there's a heaven and you will get rewarded for your sacrifices and for living for this. And hey, if we poor people all stick together, maybe one day we can overthrow the Romans and maybe help all poor people and they do, right? They basically won't become so decadent and so corrupt and so anti-intellectual, anti-intellectual that ultimately Constantine converts to Christianity. It's the dominant philosophy of the time, I guess. And he doesn't believe it, he's not gonna sacrifice but he wants to hedge it bets just in case there's an afterlife and he picks up the sword and he slaughters people so that doesn't stop him. But for poor people, this is the way to salvation. And then you have 1,000 years of, well, more than 1,000 years, maybe 1,200 years of nasty brutish and short. What else do they have to live for? They have to live for death. Really Christianity has taught them that the purpose of life is to die. And when you die, you get rewarded if you live according to these principles. And those principles are guided by, and then the enlightenment tries to challenge that. Beginnings begins to challenge that, right? There's the pursuit of happiness. There's this idea of individualism, there's idea of happiness, there's idea of success, there's idea of universality, the universality of reason, the universality of maybe there's a more code that's better but they can't quite give up on God yet and they can't give up on Christianity yet. It's still got a grip on them. So they're struggling, they're struggling, but they come close. God, they come close, right? Damn, they come close. And then, you know, I'm not a philosopher but based on my understanding, then comes Immanuel Kant and he basically takes altruism and secularizes it and embetties it in the culture, in the philosophical culture, rips apart all the enlightenment's achievements philosophically, says all of this is wrong. Look at all the mistakes you've made. None of this makes any sense. We assert this altruism as the only moral possibility there is. And until I ran, people now don't have any way to go. They're confronted with religion, has some morality, has some guidance, secularism, there's nothing. You know, the Hegelian, whatever, Marx, nothing. And certainly no alternative morality to Christianity, they all have the same Christian morality, there's nothing. So it's only I ran and there's no real, the enlightenment is dead as an ideology being taught from a moral perspective. So people have absorbed the egoism into their lives so they live somewhat self-interested lives but they're raked with guilt because of the altruism. And to this day, that's where we are. And it's only I ran who suddenly comes around and says, yes, let's complete the enlightenment project. I mean, that was not her goal but that's what she literally does. She completes the enlightenment project and she establishes egoism on proper foundations and explains it and articulates it. And you could make the argument maybe it's too late because the enlightenment spirit has been already sucked out. You could make the argument that no, it's still so entrenched and we haven't made the argument well enough and you can make, I don't know what the answer is about why we can't get through today. But I understand it 2000 years ago much more than I understand it now. Well, I was thinking that the reasons for today, it makes more sense to me now given that it's already entrenched there's all kinds of social pressure and there's the fear of going against the grain and the insecurity that's entrenched in people's minds because they were raised with altruism which says you're no good and other people are what really matter. So like to me actually it makes more sense now than it has then unfortunately, I still don't get it. It seems like people. Yeah, and beyond that think of the art, right? So all the superheroes are there to sacrifice their own happiness for the sake of mankind, right? For the sake of others. I mean, they're no egoistic superheroes and they're never presented as egoistic. They're all playing by some kind of altruistic rules. Our literature is filled with altruistic. So all the models, all the models of behavior are altruistic models of behavior. And the only people who model egoism in life are businessmen and that's rejected, right? That's part of why they hate it. What is that animal behind you? It's a turtle, a painted turtle. Yeah. But what exactly is going on? Because it's moving. Yeah, it's a painted turtle, that's a species. Yeah, yeah. A painted turtle is a species. It's not a painting of a turtle, it's a painted turtle. I'm getting worried. Okay, so now I know it's a turtle in the back. I don't like rats, so it's a... No, it's not a rat. Good. So yes, I think it's drilled into this subconscious. I mean, I know from my upbringing, right? When I was a kid, all the stories, all the songs, all the mythology was around sacrifice, was around sacrificing for the state, or sacrificing for the Jewish people, or sacrificing for fill in the blank, but it was all sacrifice. And to break away from that is very, very, very difficult. And some of us can do it. And most of us, it looks like hands, and it's gonna take a while. And part of why I always emphasize art is, we have to start changing the stories. We have to start telling different stories. And we have to start pointing out the difference in the stories, and what makes the stories different. We have to create new heroes. And for that, we need great artists who can do that, which is not easy. Because you can even interpret David, right? That's David with a leg on Goliath's head. And there's a certain sense in which that's pretty arrogant and self-confident. And, wow, I mean, that's a young kid, and he's just destroyed a giant. That's self-esteem. That's everything we hold. And, but the way most people see it, first of all, they don't like it, partially because of that, right? This is not art today that is shown young people that is explained to young people that is discussed with young people. This is of an era. This was done in the 19th century. This is of an era that it was still more enlightenment, with the heroes when put. But also, when you talk about David, David was willing to sacrifice his life for the sake of the cause. That's the story, rather than the story of heroism and pursuit of values. And it's easy to spin it that way. So... You're on. Is another way to come at Deborah's question to say, hey, life is not easy. It takes a lot of mental effort to thrive as a human, both materially and spiritually. And, you know, collectivism is, it's an easier path. It doesn't require as much mental effort. And the fact that it's already entrenched. Well, that's why it doesn't require so much mental effort. It's already entrenched. You just follow everybody else. You do like everybody else. You're not standing up. It's hard enough. You're right, Davies. It's hard enough just to get your work done and do a good job and earn a living and have a family and have kids and do all the things you need to do in order to thrive. And then you want me to stand up to the culture? You want me to take a completely different course? Yeah, that's rough. That is difficult for them. You're right. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual, would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning, any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, whims or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life and who does not want to give in to today's cult of despair, cynicism and impotence and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist, Broads. All right, before we go on, reminder, please like the show. 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