 We're back with a breakfast and plus severe care and of course I asked a question before we went on the break If you at any time had been stuck at an airport somewhere in Nigeria, probably because of a delayed flight or canceled flight That is not all we now we have A flights that are not delayed or canceled, but they are moved forward So you're supposed to travel at 10 a.m. And then that morning you get an email from the airline saying the flight is now by 9 a.m It's happened to me and the airline did not refund me. I didn't get my money back But I'm sure I hope our guests this morning will tell me how to get my money back because that money is still hanging Oloomide O'Hunayo is assistant general secretary or secretary general rather of the evasion safety round table He's an evasion sector expert and analyst mr. O'Hunayo. Good morning to you. Thank you very much for your time Thank you for having me. All right Well before we come to you let's quickly just inform our viewers at many of our flights You know being delayed in the country has been a constant fixture in Nigeria's evasion sector Like we said almost every frequent flyer has had a taste of it at most times the travel is left Like I said earlier to bear, you know the consequences of this and there's no form of compensation from neither the airline nor assistance from the the evasion sector Regulators and authorities now the delay comes in different forms like we said But it also quite bizarre the airlines leave earlier than scheduled now That's on a whole different level. The question being asked by all is what are the rights of the passenger amidst all of this? What are the responsibilities of the airlines in all of these? Can the airlines be blamed for any of this in and what's the way forward now? The airline operators of Nigeria has had recently attributed what they say or measures 80% of flight delays and cancellations in Nigeria To factors that are not under the control of the airlines are hoping I guess you You know approval dispute dispute this but he's saying that they are saying through the President of the airline operators of Nigeria Dr. Abdul Munaf Yeah, noosa San Serena He's saying that some of the prevalent causes of delays and cancellations included the unavailability and Rising cost of jet a1 it says 80% of the causes of delays and cancellations are due to factors that are not under the control of Airlines Airlines are operating Nigeria. He says are forced to operate in an environment that is wrote with infrastructure deficiencies that are highly Disruptive to normal shadow reliability and on-time performance. Um, I do agree with the view of the the president of Delay Alright, what are the factors that are responsible for this? Can the airlines take any blame for any of this at all? They have come up with some of the reasons for the delay. They have listed that Manga on us where they talked about the inflation and the evasion for SAGA. They have talked about the currency exchange rates, which means it is impossible for them to assess dollars, yes pairs, for aircraft and for maintenance so that some of the aircraft have to be parked or delayed. They talked about the cost of clearance of evasion equipment when they come into the country, especially when they have an AUG aircraft on ground, and you need to replace something they have already on this express order and you get to Nigeria within 24 hours and it takes another one week for them to clear such equipment out of the airport customs facility. They also talked about the inflationary rates, the presidential movements. They talked about the airport facility, the passenger process and the airport. At times for the early morning flights, there is always that delay at the security police, duty checks and when they have only one lane open and the position would have to go on that queue. I think the most significant one for me is that of the Lagos-Apron. Apron here is where the aircrafts are parked and because of the space, I alluded to both MM1 and GAT, the two terminals we use in Lagos and knowing that Lagos is the hub, they cannot call the aircraft so some aircraft would have to park and wait for other aircrafts to leave the bay before they can go and park and that also contributes to a lot of delay. So once you start the Lagos-Lagos delay, it's just metaphors, it's all the rest and that's what has happened because you find out that the one leaving from Lagos goes to Pujawi, it goes to Enoko or Makodi or whatever and calls back, calls back. All right, Olumire, it never has interfered with your connection. I don't know if you can hear me, but from the last point you're making, it seems like apart from the airlines, the regolith through your authorities also have some constraints that are leading to the delays and flight cancellations. Olumire, are you there? Can you hear me please? All right, it's quite a worrying situation. We'll try our very best to get back to Olumire as soon as possible, but it's made some very important points. We apologize for the quality of the audio there, but it's made some very important and interesting points about, for instance, the size of the apron. Mr. Honayo, please, can you kindly probably disconnect your earpiece and then probably use your device naturally because there seems to be some audio interference so that we can hear you clearly because a lot of what you said was really difficult to make out. So if you can just kindly disconnect your earpiece and then just use your audio device normally, that may help. Can you hear me, sir? I can hear you very well. Okay, yes. So before we lost the connection with you, you were making a very, very interesting point. So I'd like you to just go via it again. Okay, I said the most vulnerable for me was one that they wanted to do with the apron, where the aircraft are parked. Legos being the hub of domestic travel, almost all the airlines use Legos, they don't start in Legos, they have almost half of their flight into Legos and because Legos is the hub, they spring from Legos to Buja from a Buja continue to order 60. So once the one in Legos is delayed, which is the hub, it cascades into the rest of the schedule for the day. And the hub for Legos, the two terminals used are the MM2 and the G80. Those two terminals have completely serially abiding apron and not being big enough to contain aircraft for service, especially for the early morning departures that they all live about. That's seven o'clock and I think that's an area they need to address. Is that we work on expanding the apron or we spray the flight departure time so that if you lose your whole slot of departure, the next LLM would take it and you would have to leave. I think that's also what we have with adjusting and reducing this delay. Like I said, in all of these, for the passenger, myself and every other person all we want to do is get to the airport and take a flight. So whatever problem that is within the industry, it's for the industry players including the LLM themselves to sit down and resolve with the government so they can stop the delays. Looking at this whole issue of the size of the apron and all that and please, there's some breeze blowing your way. Probably that's interfering with the sound, but if you can maybe turn it off. But this issue of the apron, we here, we know that the federal government has embarked on massive reconstruction and renovation even building new terminals across the country. We all know what was happening probably in a place like Podhakot where for months, if not years, because of the renovation of the Podhakot Airport, we had to use a canopy. You know, canopy. It's been reconstructed. We can see what's happening. What's happened at Mutala Muhammad Airport. We have a new terminal there in, you know, we look at the Abuja Airport. The tarmac was renovated or reconstructed. With all these constructions and reconstructions going on, why are we having these technical issues? You've talked about the size of the apron, for instance, at the airport. Why were the aprons on the canopy? We have canopy at the stage there where you are renovating. Now they are keeping it in the rain. But anyway, you remember that canopy was a bastard for us. That means that the airport was deemed the worst airport terminal in the world. Because of that canopy, it was a very bad image. It didn't go from that canopy situation. And I'm happy you've raised it again to our consciousness to see why we should know that a vision is not domestic. A vision is global and the whole world is watching and seeing what you are doing. Looking at what you have analyzed, I think a major problem is our inability to follow the master plan of the airport. When you do not follow the master plan of the airport, you run into this kind of problem, or into all of this problem, and find yourself there at that demolishing, rearranging, or reassessing, rebuilding, and costing you more money, and also not improving. If you look at the new terminal at the International Airport today, they are going to demolish the AIB headquarters there at the airport. And some of the facilities at the International Airport as such today, all the major airlines have refused to move into that new terminal because of the size of the apron. The aircrafts cannot use that apron. The airport is small, so they've not been able to go there. So it's only small airlines of our airpiece that are operating from there. But the bigger ones, the British Airways, have refused to move into the new terminal, seeing that the airport is small. Beautiful terminal for the passengers. For the passengers to get into the terminal, that is so beautiful. Then the aircrafts must be able to park safely and comfortably for the airline crew, the aircraft asset itself, and for the passengers. So that's the big situation, that terminal is not being used. So I think we need to go back to the airport plan and follow it religiously. So we don't get ourselves into this last minute. Repair, demolition, and reactivation, and certification of them. Very interesting. One wonders how we can have a whole ministry in some countries. You have just one department for aviation. A whole ministry for aviation, and this kind of mistake will happen. I don't know how that happens. But how should these issues of flight delays and cancellations rescheduling that negatively affects the passengers be resolved? In times past, we've had passengers having no choice according to them but to resolve to destroying airline equipment. There's a recent case of max air where some passengers went after their staff. The staff, I think, may have managed to have escaped, but the computer reservation systems did not escape. So how can these be resolved? What remedy, what options do passengers have in such a situation? Well, your question is two to one now. Our advantage is not to destroy the property or attack personnel of the airline because at the point of doing that, you have turned the table and that becomes a civil case. You cannot be prosecuted for the civil disturbance, destruction or even the drilling to lead to a personnel. So I would not advise any form of violence. Normally there's a process. If that process fails, there are two options. You write to the NCA to seek redress. The Consumer Protection Council also is there for you to write to. And you also have the issue of taking the accent of your lawyer to take the briquettes. You see, we call it the poor judicial process in the country. They just really want to test the potential of the judiciary. And if we do that, if we are patient to do that, you find that the airlines will also sit up, but then they see the concurrent judgments coming in from the lane passengers and the amounts that have been asked to pay. But by and large, going to your question, looking at what are they trying to do to be done, let me go to the, they are fines in place and penalties. But what it says is that if it's two to three hours late, you serve snacks. And if it's late at night and they cannot go back, you'll provide accommodation for them overnight, which is the one that the domestic airlines always run from. Whether you see that passengers are sleeping at the terminal at the airport. Then if you can, if the flight is four to three, four hours, then the passenger has a right to seek reform for his ticket or ask for the ticket to be scheduled to another seat of his church without paying any penalty. Now, where does it go to step in? That is the national official authority. For me, I don't like them finding the airlines before payments, before they're responsible to the passengers. I want them to first stand on the passengers being paid or given a new ticket or refunded them. It is when the airlines refuse to do this, then they come in with the fine. Then they have to give them hard with the fine. It's not a fine. I want them to now use to take the money away and pay to those passengers. That's what I want to see now. So the passengers will not just lose them. Now, the airline is not paid there. You now find them and they'll get their money. So if they refuse to pay as a certain time, then they're going to come in there, find them. And after finding them, pay the passengers. What is due to them? Again, I would advise that we begin to work on how to improve the financial process at the domestic airport. Not importantly, that of legals, because due to this apron size that is causing delay and some of the passengers that actually come down at the terminal and burst where the aircraft is, we need to make that faster. Again, if you look at the security clearance to get into the patrolling in the morning, there's always a long queue. I think MM2 should do something about expanding that security clearance for passenger points. So we can have about two or three points and that can improve the flow of passengers without delay. Then the airlines most importantly, we have asked them to go into alliance. This alliance means that if I have a flight and I have an issue, I can easily ask my passengers to board the next Abuja flight rather than sit down and wait for a flight. That's not appropriate. But this alliance, they've launched the Sping Alliance about four of them. Up to today, I am not sure how effective they've been able to use that alliance to take this pain of passengers. I know that now, before I start flying, that can do that deal with Ibon Air. But if one of the flights is delayed, they put them on Ibon Air. These airlines have to work together because they know they have good departure timing. So if you don't have a good departure timing, you won't be able to work well in an alliance. And lastly, I think the NCAA should make it as a point of duty to publish every month flight statistics. This includes the delay cancellation, published for everybody to see. Maybe if you all see that passengers begin to see flights that are delayed, the one that has more delay and they don't buy them, everybody will sit up. I think that's also very important to have. All right. I wish you had more time to go into all of the details as far as the rights of the passengers are concerned. I mean, we've suffered. I think I've lost track of how much airlines are owing me from, you know, especially the ones that bring the flight forward. And then you have to rush from international terminal to domestic terminal because you booked the flight the same day. So all I learned was not to book my connecting flight the same day when coming back to the country because you might miss it. You know, it's a sad situation. Thank you so much for your time. Mr. Lumidu Ohunaya, we are grateful to have you every single time. Your expert analysis, as always, is highly appreciated. Thank you for having me. All right. And that's the size of our package. Quite interesting conversations you've had this morning. We'll be back tomorrow with more on the breakfast, but please remember that you can follow us on social media platforms, PlusCVAfrica on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and, of course, on YouTube, you can follow us. And follow us also at PlusCVAfrica, Lifestyle on YouTube for engaging content from our programs. My name is Kofi Bartels from myself. And on behalf of the entire team, we have the cameraman, the production crew, and the producer, Osare, we'll return tomorrow. Good morning.