 Hay, yu spangin kilkwa heatinga na kutapuna sa tumuputu niwa, wa niha kutapuna kwenia wa iwiwa hweyiwa. This is mwna wa ngayika maqожee milya wajinama mwna. Now, k ب ladnisha na famili kini militi tumuputu inuwe nana na parea. Mili famili mnusatawe niwa kilki. Mili famili nama na kutapuna, ndikamu.enez wiki matise hivake didiktubho molemichi na nam inspection ingaweibles, ni wiki na emblemata kapikiek nda k курurnio wa alchohmiz HTML kum ничегоa ki alchohmaticiowa island agua hyge guni kukafi u ozi k자u b Read k wa ni marching Yis dahal kwa b Kazu .. fem teme .. n mere-dyi kwa ganda ... It has gone so bad that many cannot even fend for themselves, that many even end up in the streets and sadly so some even end up dying. It is all about codependency and alcohol addiction in families on this particular conversation on Powatok to empower you and your family that you can be able to hear somebody's story, get to know what somebody else went through and maybe you may find a solution towards your particular problem. Ladies and gentlemen, to help us in this conversation, I am with to my extreme right none other than Agnes Kingori she is a recovering codependent, Karibusana Agnes. It's a pleasure having you and of course next to me is Brenda Ochien. She is a recovery coach Karibusana Brenda and of course this is the best panel. There is none that can talk about this, you will be able to hear their story and my goodness you will be touched. You will be touched, I promise you so, you will be touched. Keep engaging with us. The hashtag is powatokshow at Ram Agukko and at Y254 channel that is the official station handle. Let us know where you are watching us from and I shall sample your feedback a bit later on during this morning conversation. Powatok starts now. Let me start with you Agnes. No, Brenda first. There is a terminology that I have used and then I will come to you Agnes. There is a terminology that I have used that many will not be able to understand if we don't decipher or distinguish or elongate what it means or define it. I mentioned codependency and I want to know what that is all about. What is this thing called codependency? Codependency in a nutshell is people addictions. So if you are codependent, technically it means that there is an addict somewhere. For example, there is somebody who is an addict, that person is addicted to a drug or alcohol or sex or pornography or gambling. That's what he or she is addicted to. And me as a person who is very close to that person, I am addicted to her or him. You love them? I love them too much and I love them the wrong way. In fact, you can't love too much so I am loving them the wrong way. What do you mean by loving somebody? You can love somebody in the wrong way. I love them in such a way that I actually make them continue in their addiction. So for example, if this person is a drug addict, every morning they tell me, oh, suppose it's my son, oh mom, please give me money because I need to go to college. And I know very well this guy never goes to college. But I give him the money anyway. And when he gets the money, he is going to go straight into the bar to the person who sells him drugs. And so he is not going to go to school. I am going to be called. He is not in school. When he comes back I ask him, why weren't you in school? And he will tell me, oh, this and that and the other. Tomorrow morning he will ask me for money again. And you will see him going. That is being a co-dependent. And you are not offering a solution to that particular problem because you love them. Because I love them. And it is driven by fear. Perhaps I am afraid that if I say no, he is going to hate me. If I say no, he will go and go kabisa, he will leave me and I am terrified of being left. Possibly it is very deep rooted. Right from childhood I have abandonment issues. So I cling to things and people. And that is what being co-dependent means. Now, let me come to you Agnes. You have a wonderful, inspiring story. Let's get to know your story from the beginning. I am the eighth born in my family. And as being a big family, eighth born was abandoned somehow. My parents were Christians, but there was a lot of alcohol in the family. So my big brothers and my aunts were actively abusing all kinds of alcohol, drugs. At that age I knew, I didn't know that a bangi could be pranted in a coffee plantation. But in my father's coffee plantation, there was a bangi. And they would put it on top of the roof so that it may dry up so that the seeds may not go back to the plantation, to the coffee plantation. But my father was told. It was encouraged? It was not encouraged. He didn't even know that it was being pranted. It looked like another weed. We call it Mufagi. Mount Kenya. So it smelled almost the same. So whenever my father would ask why are you putting some weed on top of the roof? My brothers and my uncles who were abusing would tell him that so that the seeds may not go back to the to become more troublesome in the coffee plantation. Oh, when you were playing with this man. Yes. And since he was a rich man and a prominent man, he had this picture the neighbor saw nothing could get into that home. But believe me, when my uncle was drunk from my mother's side, my aunts used to drink everything turned inside out. Because they would come with women, men. And I am about 8 years, 10 years I saw two pictures of these grownups and I was not supposed to talk to say anything about it. Don't talk, don't feel, don't cry. And I couldn't report. My father was busy outside and my mother was also a business woman. Most of the time we were left to our uncles and aunts because I'm supposed to obey them I never talked about it. So you saw this happening. I saw. You knew it was wrong. I didn't know. You did not know it was wrong. Did you engage in it? No, I hated it. I hated alcohol, I hated anything. I hated their behavior. I even hated growing up because I said if growing up would mean this then I wouldn't want to grow up. And I was 8 years. So much, much later when I came to Alikapa program that's when I was told that that was the drug abuse alcoholism. That's when it was explained to me. But believe you me I said that I would never drink and I would also not marry a drunkard. That's the promise you made? I promised myself. When you were younger? Yeah. And I made sure. I finished my high school. I didn't drink, I didn't use, I didn't even engage with anybody who used or drank. I was a church person until I got married to one who pleaded for two years that he could never drink. Wait until the day I gave birth it was like a bomb which was pumped. He didn't come home for four days. All the time? All the time. He used to drink but you never knew? He didn't show. He didn't come home drunk. He didn't even show any sign of drinking because I had specifically told him that if ever you would drink you would not stay together. So he played his cards right? Until I get my first born. We will pick up your story from there and I want to hear it from you Brenda. You've heard what you said. Families engaging in drug use and drug abuse it is in their home. What makes it interesting is it is in your home but your own father does not know about it. What makes it also even more interesting is you are married to this person but you don't know that they are addicts or they take alcohol or they take drugs or they abuse drugs. How can we solve such kind of cases in family? Is it possible to detect or is it that we love them too much or so much that we can't even detect such signs? Many times for dependents are in denial. It might be a very subconscious thing. It can be a subconscious thing where you might see the sign, somebody might even mention it but you say no. Not even somebody mentioning it. You might not get that inclin that something is there or something is going on but you just deny it. You say no, it can't be. Later on people might even tell you I thought I saw your boiler here and there and you'll say no, he just does business meetings. Even if it's in a box it's a business meeting. I think that there's some funny things which grow in your farm and just like she's saying he will say probably it is that weed which is growing over there. You don't see. Were it in front of you, you would not see. That's when we started talking about elephants in the room. Can you imagine an elephant in the middle of this room and you can't see it? You never even suspected even a bit about what's going on. Your father never suspected even a bit about what was going on. My father was a Christian that nothing long would go on in a Christian who believed. My mother was a choir person. Even my aunts, the ones who were drinking on any other day, on Saturdays they were in church. How can you think bad about them? And they are the ones who are teaching you catechism. Until I joined the program I was a guy. I had been living in Jinao all this time. Then my husband he knew that if he placed this that a game before I got a child I would leave. And you were strict about it? I was strict about it. I had suffered as a child. So he waited until I got a first born. And he knew as a Christian that we did a very big wedding church wedding but believe me it was drama. What do you mean drama? Because we were not serious. We didn't mean what. It was just for show? Yeah, for show. So it was a big show. So that I may be grounded in that home. I had a good career. So I had good money. I was sharp. He was also sharp So we used to see a brighter future together. That did not happen. But my boys thought that we were the perfect family my first two boys. But towards at one point this drama was added and then the egg broke. We were left shattered. And that was after you gave back to your first child? Now the second one. Now let me push you back again. Let's go back again in time. You said that you suffered as a child because of drugs in the house and drug abuse in the house. How was it? Just in a nutshell and maybe also piece of advice to a parent who is watching you today. Namtotuake is engaged in this thing and they either know or do not know. But let's get your story. How was it for you as a child? Number one, I didn't have anybody to tell what I was seeing, what I was hearing. My parents could not reason to me. You cannot talk about grownups that you are a child in my family. And you used to get a beating. I remember getting beatings until I kind of nabbed. I became nabbed because of even talking about being abused by being beaten by my uncles. So I didn't talk about anything or including when I'm sick I couldn't say I have a stomach ache or a headache. Because if you talk before you get beaten. You get beaten. And that's a mistake most parents make. Or if you cease anything. Imagine you are not supposed to see a drunkard struggling with opposite sex in the compound. You are not supposed to see that's what I was trained. Most parents end up beating their child because of mtutama ongeya. Mtutama onafana makosa. What's your take on that? Very, very damaging. Because that is how abuse can thrive. You can imagine even in the home if a child is being sexually abused and this usually happens by somebody you know very well. It is that house boy, house girl uncle or something. It means that they cannot say. If I am to say, if me as a child I am to say so and so has touched me in a bad way I will be beaten. Because they don't believe you. They prefer not to believe because they don't want to deal with it. Imagine having to confront your brother that you have abused now my child. But should you do it? Yes, absolutely. Even if it means breaking your family into two. Because this person will continue to perpetrate damaging your child. The child is being damaged. And the abused person eventually will become an abuser. So this is becoming a very rotten society. Do you agree with that? I agree because today I work with families who are abused. And this is exactly what I hear from from their homes. Because your child complains about something lakini kama mzazi una kata I've actually seen that happen. And the children always feel afraid. They say, mama mia tani amini she won't believe me. Because that is her brother. Ata amini naji mtoto ake nawini indubu yake wali zalo na kutoka kutumbu moja ata amini vb. But we need to break this chain. That's why this conversation is very important. We need to break this chain. How can we do it? We do it. Chains are broken from the level usually the co-dependent. Me, the mother, the parent, for example, the parent who is seeing all this happen. Now this child is not going to be a normal child. It might end up be a very silent child. In school there's always that child who never says anything hardly engages in anything. Sometimes they get bullied because what's wrong with you, why don't you ever say anything but they're carrying so much pain with them. And they've been told as Agnes has told us, you may not talk. Some of them have been told the message that they're getting is you should not even have been existing in the first place. So vanishing Veronica. There are people who always just want to disappear into the shadows. There's another one who is going to become a cartoon in order to be able to deal with their pain and the pain mitches and the family even among the siblings. We call them a mascot. He's always going to be hilarious, making people laugh, doing all sorts of the tukos. They want to make others laugh but deep down they're not happy. Deep down they're so sad. Deep down they have a lot of pain. In fact it's like that, when you see the logo of drama there's always a happy face and a sad face. There's a happy face which when you remove there's just tears. Another one will become a scapegoat. Very naughty. You tell him to school he doesn't go to school. He goes somewhere else, plays truant, hooks up with the wrong people. Something like that. But you want to hang out with people in the shanties and such like because you become their hero. You are the Mdosi so you're the hero. Of course you're going to learn to drink, to drug, to do all those things, to hold guns and all that kind of thing. So me as the co-dependent, me as the parent who is the co-dependent the chain breaks at me. The chain does not break at the child. Of course there's a child who's a golden he loves him. His work is now to make the family look normal make the family look successful. So he's going to be an overachiever. The best child you ever saw when I was in school you always had to pull up your socks but we hated it. But this one their socks will be up literally pull up their socks. And they're just hiding the pain that is there hiding it but you see the thing is they can't mask it. I mean they're masking but they cannot get rid of it. Me the co-dependent. I'm bothered and I'm wondering what about the case of parents who take alcohol and they have their child Baba Kuya, Onja Kidovo Onja How negative can that affect a child because you know you're doing it for fun because you're with your fellow brothers, Muna Ketichini and them on Cheshire. Number two, I'm looking at two sets of children the first set of children of a child is the one who is growing around a family where alcohol and drug abuse is existing and they choose to follow a different path like you you said that is not the path I will follow but the second type of a child is the one that will now get into that particular trade or culture of alcohol drug abuse because that's how the family is. You taken that? You see the child who says I'm not going to be like this and really manages to get completely out of it it's about ego strength also it's about even what's happening in the life of this particular child when they're so small this family has 11 children the way life was when the first three were born is not the same when the middle ones were born is not the same as when the last ones were born especially middle children really suffer they are kind of forgotten because the first ones are either left more or left then they are empowered the last ones are posited and loved you Tajipanga in the middle such a person and then there's all this abuse going on don't be don't whatever they will not have ego strength they will not have that confidence because they don't want to shake rock the boat so they will just go with the flow they will just survive from one day to another even that survival is not very sure so it just depends on that and again their children so they would need to be then empowered it would need an outside force or direction to help them come out of that me I had an experience with my children I have four boys they are now married I have grandchildren because of their father drinking he was also using drugs and chewing mirror and God knows what else and he used to have so many women in the town we were living and it was a small town my children started now behaving in a funny way they started steering this alcohol from the cupboard and adding water so they started drinking very early when they were young boys that's how many kids do that was it not in anakaholic environment I would not worry but now what happened later with the father who was a graduate teacher in a very big institution the downfall that's the one now made me understand that this was not the path I would have fallen but gotten into we had to separate for this family to continue otherwise there was a lot of violence between me and him and everybody thought that I am the bad one so anytime we would fight everybody would tell me you are not a good woman you are supposed to behave well that's why your husband is getting annoyed you are supposed to cook well that's why your husband is going out with other women you are supposed to dress well that's why I am the bad one so I did exactly what I was advised and most of the time the advice was always from different sides one is telling me to get out of this abusive family and the other one is telling me that I should work harder most of the time I used to work harder what do you mean work harder doing better waking up to 1am in the morning and watching the windows and they are very big windows going to school to learn how to cook going for the best sarunist wearing much from head to toe thinking that I would police the alcoholic I didn't the fighting were increased until one police told us this is not a marriage this is abuse Agnes we live in uniform ya green from head to toe he came drunk he didn't see he came drunk so he couldn't see what I was wearing I wish I knew I would have won nga mbe ni sengenge sengenge ni nga mbe wow now but still on you I want to know your story now Apawali you said that he was pretending to be a good person I got as you thought what made him change his mind what was the trigger and what made you realize that this is not a man I married the duties he started skipping going to class he is a teacher I was always going to the hospital to get sick of we would fight and we would add up both of us not going to work and then the children started feeling him so much so we would always hide under the bed including the maid and I started seeing we say alcoholism is a progressive disease or addiction so he started going down and he went down with us financially socially people stopped coming to my house because they didn't know which state they were fighting sometimes they were fighting other times they were fighting him not wearing proper dressing and God knows what else so if you have visitors does he know that you have visitors did he know that you are not allowed to bring visitors in the house unless they are drinking buddies and if you bring including his own brothers and parents you have to ask for permission and he would go drink and forget that the father was coming to see him my father now that is his father in law his father now I would announce that the father is coming to see the son only to be told that it is a setup they wanted to win his drinking happiness why do you bring visitors I remember one time he chased some women although in our culture having women coming to Sripava was no more but in my house you couldn't they came to bring another day to give birth we were next to the hospital you know they watch that 2 am in the morning they were told this is not a hospital extension you know how much did they get about 10 you know Matatos got finished at around 9 so they said our son is in this school it is from his village not from my village then he comes at 2 am and I tell him the women from your village had come to bring another day to give birth thinking that it is something good I am saying they had to leave at 2 am they went and slept in the outpatient you said that at some point you had to hide under the bed together with your children and your household fear fear I was used to fear so much that I even feared the telephone ringing I would jump and now I wouldn't do anything if I was cooking I would abandon the cooking because of the fear when you know that he is on his way coming even imagine that he would come that fear would overwhelm me and then I would not even suck on the baby the time the baby was young you had a suckling baby at that time all this time I used to have babies you see in an alcoholic environment having babies is the game because there is no more fun in this home so your work is to give babies so at that time they became 3 they ended up 4 Brenda no no you even choked for that I am what's coming in your mind as you're hearing her story I'm looking at a professional I'm looking at somebody who came from a family that had a lot of money and ends up like this and does not have the power is not empowered and within herself doesn't have the power and doesn't know where else you can go to get the power and you know what you were saying earlier asking about this thing of people giving their children going to the bar with their kids and giving children alcohols and people give actually babies alcohol so that they keep quiet and develop tolerance in their bodies for drugs alcohol chemicals basically meaning what meaning even when they grow up and they're trying to drink socially we all go out after this and you want to drink socially you guys are going to go away after 2 beers 3 beers you might even leave the beer there because you have reached the level where it has satisfied you there's certain where you want to feel and you're going to attain it after 2 beers if you're a normal person she'll be happy with 1 beer for me I need 6, 8, 10 in order to reach where you were because the first 4 were just water my body is resistant and now I am going to become an alcoholic because the quantities of alcohol that I need in order to feel what normal people feel is going to be massive the first 4 bottles are just water ya infact I don't even know why you're drinking beer give me gin but you were also at some point addicted yes tell me about that for me I got addicted and I didn't realize that I was getting addicted infact that very tolerance I'm talking about whereas I grew up in a family that they were Christian they never drank alcohol there was once alcohol in the house which was a gift and there was hysteria in that house until we had to get rid of it my environment was completely alcohol free but once I started to drink and to drink socially I never realized that I was getting into problems why? because I never used to mess because what would give you an indicator that you're drinking too much that you're messing I'm drinking I'm falling on the table you're telling me I'm not going out of you again ever you're just an embarrassment people are showing me videos of things I did dancing on the table and all that for me I used to drink and not get like that and people would say isn't it a bit too much or why drinking vodka in the first place and you're a lady ladies drink cherry king fish and things like that and I'm a people pleaser so if you say that I don't want to upset you so I'll drink what you're telling me to drink but when I get home you'll go back to the hard stuff so I'll leave and drink it before I come and you won't even know by the way that I've had something to do because your body or your system adjusted to that hard stuff so by the time I was realizing I have a problem and the only thing that made me really brought me down to earth and say I have a problem is when I contracted TB the doctor told me you cannot drink alcohol and I was suffering so much I had neglected it I was suffering so much it was so badly gone and I'm like yeah yeah yeah swa upon a stack of bibles I will not drink alcohol and they gave me the medication and I spent two days not drinking alcohol I felt as though my spirit was leaving my body I was dying I came to realize I cannot I cannot do it without alcohol if I do it without alcohol I'm I'm literally dying it was so hard but even the way I physically felt my body was giving me grief and then in the morning demons would arrive in the name of hallucinations you were seeing things I see things and hear voices eventually I would hear voices even in broad daylight I'm hearing music which nobody else can hear auditory hallucinations I tried to do something with myself go and look for work all over Kenyatta Avenue I'm seeing giraffes great big giraffes with teeth so I would the illusions those are trees actually but me I'm seeing giraffes so around about that time I thought okay I think I have a problem you're seeing giraffes that's a whole new label what when you see somebody like a human being I used to see many human beings with green eyes and distorted eyes and they were always looking at me malevolently I don't know how come I'm the only one who sees these people in town and all over I even saw some I went to try and I saw others but I guess they didn't really look like that those were still illusions they were just normal people but that's what I would see I would see things that are not there or that are distorted my perception was distorted I was always afraid and eventually I became house-ridden because I couldn't go out because of that I was scared of red buildings I would get panic an actual panic attack if I saw a red building the funny thing is that this red building I've been seeing it all along I even used to jog and pass this red building whether a car is coming or a bus I won't move I'm just frozen because I've seen a red building I have no idea why a red building I guess that's also something very deep inside my unconscious mind you just have no idea why it's carrying you it's just carrying you it's just carrying me very very much at some point I even acquired I became a journalist and I had to go to to get my pass was it renew it was it in Jogo house or where all I know is that when I got there I couldn't get inside the building because the building is made of brick so I tried I tried I couldn't so up to today it has never been renewed this is many years later and that was the end of that that was the end of it I never wrote again not professionally I haven't stopped watching news because I didn't want to see other people's stories my colleague's stories and that's how bad it can be let me come to you again still about the addiction part how did it affect your family even eating habits as the alcoholic continued drinking and getting himself into a mess the whole family started adjusting so we could eat very quickly and go to bed we could not even sit on the table on the dining table because we never knew at what point the fighting would start and he used to say that is the women I hang around with are the ones making me behave badly so I dropped all my friends including the church members he stopped going to church too I had to stop actually what used to happen is the minute we used to stay less than 10 minutes from the church I used to go to but he would wait until 10 minutes before service time and then he would say that he wants soup ox tail soup and it has to be boiled for an hour he used to say that he is my god and without him I cannot live and I believed and in fact I went and told my religious reader and he said oh obey him your pastor told you that your husband is your god I told him that I don't come to church because my husband says that I have to adhere to him and what did your your church leaders say he didn't advise anything number one the good thing about him is that when he is not drunk he is a saint he is the one who will take the boys to the church give the biggest of atole and he would go on for a month or even more until the next now drinking beach and he would come wasted and god knows what nobody and oh being beaten all over and even having bandages so I couldn't marry the two people the one who is not drinking and behaving like a father and a good man teacher and professional and this other person who has all of a sudden without notice drunk we were supposed to go somewhere maybe sometimes it's Christmas time or festive time or even a birthday and he would appear the opposite so there was a lot of confusion I couldn't keep promises I remember one day the grand mother his own grand mother had invited us we were supposed to travel and we used to have a car he went to get the car checked and he came after four days without the car what happened to the car he forgot he left it at the garage and he went drinking and he forgot that we were supposed to go somewhere and because he is a man he asked kweni where are you going where are you going I told him but you promised your grand mother we will go and the children were all set and those days we used to borrow sweaters from the neighbor those are the days even the hard bags they used to rotate in the neighborhood so I have done all that I have given the maid go home leave your children they all said waiting to go to the man to come without a car after four days after four days you can imagine the feeling as a mother I have to explain to these boys why we are not going to the grand mother and I have to write to them because I want to protect this man I also want to protect our name we are married remember our name and there is the society seeds his name is my shame in fact I remember I used to get a stomach ache when he has a hangover he is the one who is having a hangover but it is kind of the pain is transferred to me because I am the wife I want to take a break we will be back and then we will get to know more about your stories wow guys keep engaging with us the hashtag is part of the show at Ramaguko and that Y254 channel is where you can be able to engage with us in this particular conversation tell us what you think about alcohol and drug addiction has affected your family how deep rooted is it in your home and what are the possible solutions that you've managed to come up with so far are you still struggling with it what is the way forward today we are talking about this particular conversation and of course be part of of this particular show my name is Ramaguko at Ramaguko is where you can be able to find me on all my social media handles we are taking a break we will be back in a bit after this I want us to find out what solution did you guys come up with and are you still together for you when it comes to the addiction how did you solve it I can see you working with the with the crutch is that as a result of addiction how did it affect you in the long term and do you still have the employment women are affected what of the people in Umbani what is there all of you let's take a break we will be back in a bit this is part of why 254 imagine that's why we are back thank you so much for being part of this morning conversation this is power talk it's all about understanding how diverse alcoholism and drug addiction can be especially in a family ladies and gentlemen the hashtag is power talk show at Ramaguko and that's why 254 channel that's where you can be able to engage with us head over to our Facebook page and drop in your comments on the comments section on that particular page and we shall sample your feedback a bit later on during this particular program I am with Agnes Kingori a recovering co-dependent and Brenda O'Ching who is a recovery coach giving us their story but now before we went on that break Agnes you said it was so bad that now you have to take the blame not air your dirty lillian in the public but then of the day people blame you now let me touch on that particular aspect here because women are always the ones who are being told that if your husband is cheating on you you are the problem if your husband is drinking you are the problem if the husband cannot stay at home you are the problem in fact I got those musicians even from the church my own church and from my parents I was told that I am not a good mother I don't cook well I don't take care of the children so what I did I increased in doing good hoping they will change hoping that he would change he would look at my side he would stop going out with other women the problem initially was going with other women then it came to finances then it came to the corrupts of the even our careers both of us so you lost your career I also lost my career because of the depressions now let's talk about about that particular aspect here but before I come to you because I want to know how it affected you now personally Brenda you said you became addicted to it how did you family handle such kind of a case and how are they receiving you they didn't know fortunately I didn't live with them I lived with an elder sister she was a workaholic she didn't even see it coming because just as Agnes is saying an alcoholic is very two faced so many times she would see this over me they are very hard worker I do things in extreme so when I really clean and when I really do whatever I was working in the entertainment industry sometimes I'd be around at home but other times I'd go and do a show and have lots of money so she didn't really see it she probably thinks because I had a late show last night you're tired kumbe kwa ground the difference kwa ground the difference kumbe had snuck out at the break of dawn at 6 o'clock to go into Gigi and get more alcohol because the demons are even a carpet the ones that have flowers I would see dragons and things on them you know how we see those things in movies I thought movies only exaggerate things kumbe the movies are saying the real thing you see a dragon in the carpet and they are looking at you malevolently the only thing that's going to cure that and turn the ants are walking tashitari tashitari alis nations ants are walking all over me only thing that will cure that is a drink so the guy even he used to call me names the guy at the Gigi because I'm knocking his door at 6am I would even have knocked earlier except it was dark I need a drink and I wouldn't drink it there I would take the stuff and go and sneak back into the house drink it become steady even be able to shower otherwise I wouldn't shower for 4 days even be able to shower make breakfast so who does my sister see the very nice younger sister who always has everything in order but you wouldn't shower for 4 days I'll put on the heater I'll put one finger in the shower see you there and then wash here only here hygiene is not an issue ah ah no what would be your piece of advice to that family that is watching you today that is struggling with their child or their husband or their wife that is an addict of course your piece of advice to even people who work and live with an addict how would you prefer at the handle such a person first I'll tell you open your eyes I'll tell every family that open your eyes because in this country addiction and drinking is just so real open your eyes to the signs that are there you may be able to arrest it early if you already have an alcoholic I mean the day to help that alcoholic is today and the way we do there's something called an intervention this is a carefully planned procedure we have an alcoholic in the family there's no need of me the mother nagging and nagging she's telling you how it is to go I will nag this person he will drink I will beat this person he will drink I will lock him out he will drink I will pray for him while I'm doing that he's in the bar which doctor he will drink because a co-dependent is always trying to control and the thing is I'm powerless over this person when you get into recovery you will learn that you are powerless over another human being I cannot control another human being so this is what I must do I must look for an intervention try and make an intervention for this alcoholic carefully plan things I must choose these people who are going to do this intervention very carefully maybe somebody from the church somebody he respects and likes not that person who is going to nag him and tell him it's okay for your husband to beat you maybe his best friend who has even been asking me what's going on somebody he respects about 4 to 6 people and then we are going to plan this thing that now we are going to do an intervention on this person this person is in denial denial comes with addiction the same way fever comes with malaria it's not because he's a bad person that he's in denial that's just part of the disease so now we are going to tell this person that he needs help and the way we are going to bring him to the point where he accepts he needs help is that we are going to convene a location a place a specific day and then we are going to call this person and in a very calm and loving manner but very assertive manner we are going to tell him you have a problem and each one of us is going to tell him why we think he has a problem and when does rehab come in play rehab will come after this after this person has come to the place where he agrees that he has a problem then we'll stay and we will already have done our research again I will tell families do your research don't just go to the nearest rehab or one you have heard about unfortunately many rehabs today are just businesses they don't care about you they don't care whether your person gets better or not infact if he relapses the better because that means that they will bring you back and they will come back again a good rehab has good counselors trained counselors and people who really care people who have a passion for helping but what if the addict doesn't want to go for rehab oh yes so during this intervention we will have planned each of us is going to give him a consequence me as the mother if you are not going to rehab please move out of my house today because I am done with your drama what if they say ok what if they go go all this time the problem has been I've been shielding him from the consequences go you want them to learn from the consequences go alright I'll come back to that let me come to you Agnes your story all this time I've been hearing about your husband let me hear about you how did this affect you and how did it change your life everything it changed everything because that person went that decent person left the person who beds every day washes his body every day left because if your husband is not bathing why should you bathe and you are sleeping in the same bed who will know now who is not bathing so I stopped my hygiene my health my eating behaviors they all changed and I became very thin and the person who puts on oil and is not going anywhere because of the dryness dryness of the skin that's who I became then my second born was 2 years and we had fought for quite some time he decided that because he goes to the bar and the women snatch him I should be taking him to the bar so I decided to be going to watch on him so women snatch they steal they used to steal him that's what he used to say also they take his money and everything else no him the person the man so he demanded that I go become his watchman we go home together I don't understand it you cannot understand it because you are not in the womb and you can also understand because you are not living in an alcoholic but anything could go wow so I kept him company and I'm staying there until 4 o'clock in the morning and I'm taking tea which he used to finish at 10 o'clock in the evening so I would take water and sodas but being there the whole night at some point you were not tempted to drink at some point I didn't until one day I would go to the toilet come back I had left the soda there on the table only to drink it and it had something another taste that was there of me I started drinking there I didn't know what I was putting in that soda and I remember the next two months I would take myself to the bar and it bring ask for a soda ask for a alcohol your drink was piked someone put something in it did you know who did it and what was putting my husband was there so he was supposed to take care of me he said that I get so bald after 1am I became so bored and nagging that we should go home so to keep me to keep then my voice I could not raise my voice together with other drunkards who after some drinks they started raising their voices I didn't know why they kept on raising their voices so he wanted that drama and he got it but now again after 2 years he didn't like again the drama he started okay let me first forward as you tell us what made him not like the drama first forward tell me now how what was the worst level the lowest point that you got to but started that part where he didn't like you after 2 years the lowest the lowest was we had to separate and I had to go with the boys okay I had to leave the boys I went alone to I came to Nairobi and stayed in a company house I used to work with post office telecom and then after 1 year I was told by the family to pick the children the other boys and I had to obey again I picked them that time already he had already married another woman with 2 3 children so he was him he was okay I was the one who was on the wrong according to your in-laws according to him my in-laws were good my mother in law was a good woman God bless her soul in my internal peace she used to care for me but she didn't have the voice everybody was saying ah you even used to boast that you had the good job a lot of money let's see what you become they were laughing at me my in-laws including my own brothers and sisters it's like they were feeling jealous that I had cried the ladder so fast then I'm falling like they enjoyed it but you became an addict when he put some alcohol in my soda I don't know what else from there either what I used to do or what the other people used to do to me because all what I know is that by that time the company was going down and I think I went down with it we never by that time I had done accounting CPA one and I had moved from my office to an accounting office in the same company and I used to be there the one preparing the final accounts and the drama was the the companies there never used to demand yearly report so we would delay reports for 3 years because we are busy drinking all of us in the office and that was the game everyday now when the money started going down the marriage started going down we separated and it went with all the properties you lost everything everything including the mabatis on the roof he sent somebody to remove the mabatis on the roof wait wait you are saying that he came and picked everything from now when I left my matrimonio home everything was invested in his father's home so I had to live without anything including the boys I didn't live with the boys I went alone wow and within 3 years there was nothing we had so different so both of us became poor poor me but now why did you remain with the children doesn't he also in our culture the children belongs to the woman not the man especially now having another woman the pressure will be on push these boys away so that they may not demand the land the inheritance but now there is nothing to inherit his father's oh his father's okay branda I am told time is not on our side so I want us to bring this conversation to a close but let me get to hear your story as we finalized what would be your piece of advice to those who are watching you today when it comes to codependency and addiction in families I will tell people who have addicts in their families that you're the person who is going to help this addict and before you're going to help that addict you're going to have to help yourself you have to snap out of the codependency it's not something you just remove like a dress it is something which is a process just like the addict is going to go through a 12 steps program when he's in rehab or on step on up to step 12 in order for him to really get out of addiction you, me, the codependent I have to also go through the same thing he will go to AA eventually I need to go to codependence anonymous I need to go to Alanon I need to be taught to unlearn during all those years that this person was an addict the ways of being, the patterns of thinking of behaving of feeling which are dysfunctional which make me a codependent I have to unlearn them like peeling an onion bit by bit it's a process but it is possible still it is possible it will be possible for me to let go like I'm saying whatever his consequences it will be possible for me actually to let go and tell him I'm not giving him money because I know that this is what you're going to do and the fear well, faith is going to come where the fear was there will not be fear when my activities change his will change when he realizes eh, mum's not there anymore eh, she's not going to come and protect me anymore he's going to change they are very intelligent what was your lowest point throughout this period the lowest point I remember I got was one day when I had gone to my sister's house because I had moved out I used to blame her that she was not making me drink and then I was living somewhere else and she was having a party I came, she was having a party, I swore I wouldn't drink, I drank it I don't know what I drank but the next morning I tried to go to work and I was working for ambassador and I was leaving the house without a skirt the watchman had to tell me ma madam hojawa hojaba skat I go back, I struggle, I struggle I come back, he's standing on my way again I want the skirt but I want the petticoat on top and he's always telling me go to the hospital and I'm abusing but eventually I went to the hospital I was given a stopper because I was refusing to listen to anything and yet my pressure was up and you know they gave me a stopper which is an injection which just completely slowed it because they had to admit me I don't know whether eventually because I was fidgeting as they did it I don't know whether that is eventually what messed up my leg but when I got soba eventually my right leg was kaput my right hip which at some point had healed but now it's just kaput again all over again it's terrible I walk like Akiwete Kapsa that is the present I got from alcoholism it left something it has to give you something when I was in rehab I was so smug people have dents and bottomed me I was just fine kumbe this one was going Agnes I want us to wrap it up give us a final word to kimaliza imaneno la labdakamu okunajambu maybe you can give to that person who is watching you today recovery is possible for both the families and the alcoholic addict himself when we separated I went to a church and heard a priest saying that there is a program that is called dependency koda we call it koda and also alanon this is for families of alcoholic addict I was persuaded by this religious person to join this program one way to realize I needed the three programs including the Alcoholics Anonymous program and when I joined remember we had separated it took me it took my husband 10 years to believe that this very good program for my wife and my children have now started jumping and feeling good about themselves can help me and he joined and he recovered he recovered he passed on after 5 years but he passed when he was in recovery that is a plus wow thank you so much for coming ladies I really appreciate your presence and I wish you the best in everything that you are doing even as we are advocating for people to know more about these things because from this conversation women are really affected from alcohol and drug abuse and I have so many questions that I need to know but we will continue this conversation another day but thank you so much Brenda for coming and of course thank you so much Agnes it's a pleasure and the hashtag is a power talk show on Twitter at Ram Aguko and at Y2F4 channel that presents to the end of this show of this conversation right here on power talk my name is Ram Aguko it's been a pleasure being with you from the beginning and I hope you have learned something and I hope you are going to change I know that you are going to look into your family and find out how you can be able to solve the issue of drug abuse and addiction and alcoholism on behalf of everybody that ensured this show was a success thank you so much this is power talk