 So, we can start the discussion. So, one specific thing which I would like to hear from you is your thoughts on how this model will work in your college if at all. Every semester you have to prepare new material for questions to tutorial. Yes, questions. So, once the videos, so whatever you have seen as part of the Bodhi tree which is the content, the practice problems that will stay stationary across the years. Because each new batch will watch the same videos all the practice problems and so on. The things that you need to do from semester to semester even the tutorials once you have them ready like this is the problem I want to discuss that also can be reused over the years. The only thing you have to periodically set again and again are the quizzes and the exams. Like basically anything that is being graded mid sem final in tutorial quizzes also these you have to kind of generate. But other than this the rest of the material is to be reused year after year. According to normal institution outside what students feel is that interested students will keep on solving their problems. Others what they do is that they get input from seniors, get the solutions and start continuing with that. That is why see one thing is it depends upon what even here you could always sit in a group or sit with someone else who is doing it and solve it. So, there is so I have not graded in a fact no marks have been assigned to this scoreboard or whatever marks you are getting as part of the online platform we did not assign any marks to them it is but that is it there is a healthy competition still because I do it outside like I give them some whoever does well the top five people I take them out or in general it is like oh I am coming on the top whatever I mean whatever they do it is not going to really affect their grade because grading is strictly based on proctored examinations like people spread out I give them an exam they kind of do it majority 80 percent or 90 percent of their grade is dictated by that. So, even if they cheat there it is not really I mean finally in the transcript they will still get a low grade if they are cheating so it does not quite make the combination of these two different techniques means I want to say that if we deliver the lecture in the traditional way and after delivering the lecture we provide the video to them and those whose over was attended the lecture they are interested and they can provide the they can they can give the quiz and those who were absent in the classroom they can get the guidance from this video. Sure. I mean as an instructor yeah you can do that it is just more load on the instructor but yeah if that is what is going to help the student. I think this is not a matter of load what I strongly believe that the classroom teaching is having the maximum efficiency I just want to give you a very small example suppose instrument have to make a grid of six six column by six rows then what he is doing in the last row either the space is big or the space is low and if he is saying that the instructor is drawing the matrix on the blackboard and in the middle he draw a line and divide the matrix in two part three by three then the matrix is perfectly done. So this is a small example then the students are watching and observing each and everything what is happening. I agree so as I said there is so whatever so whatever you are telling you can also capture it on the video it's not that making all these things suppose I again give you one another a small example I give a statement an optimal solution another statement the optimal solution so it is very difficult to differentiate between them if we are not explaining to the student. So I agree that you are talking about the feedback so it kind of boils down to this you do the traditional classroom setting you are going to well watching many in that combination what you are talking about watching many times is fine because you are whatever you are recording you are putting but the student pays many questions all those things will disappear because you cannot give enough time in that. So that's why I am talking about the combination or the mixture of. But then the question is they are watching they are listening to your lecture here and then ask you are asking them to go back and solve some of the problem I mean I am not ruling it out all I am saying is if that works great in increasing. But I am thinking that those who are present in the class they will definitely do better in this flipping mode and those who are not those who are absent in the classroom they will definitely will not get benefited by the flipping classroom model. Sure I mean if the same content is available on top of it you are coming and doing it's like a combination of both all I am saying is it does increase the load like for me now I have it is not a matter of increasing the load it is a matter of employability of all the teacher's community also. No no no that I do not take so it's so again I think what you have raised is a very valid point. So now with this everything the lectures are online now what is the role of the local instructor I mean it's like are they there or they can we can just get rid of them so that they can directly use this material and do. I think the role of the local comes in the tutorials the face to face as you said is very very important no one can kind of deny the importance. I just again want to give an example how effectively you have delivered the lecture nobody was slipping and everybody was taking the interest and just take an example you make a video of your own lecture and deliver it and see the effectiveness of that video so face to face is having unparalleled I am not denying that in fact that is why I see that is why we are going for a flipped and not like a course array or edX where you just log in you do whatever and you get out so that model I personally don't buy into that what I'm talking about is where you do have a face to face discussion the question is what do you cover in this face to face discussion do you repeat the lecture which is also okay with me I'm not saying that's a bad idea or anything I'm saying you can do it also if it improves the effectiveness of the teaching but that is a repetition so if you if you expect them that I've done something you can use this like for example one of the ways I have done it is I give only a simple let's say the sliding window protocol I explain what the sliding window protocol is now I come into the tutorial and say okay you understood the sliding window protocol now what I want to do is maybe instead of it being an act-based system I want to convert it into an act-based system now design such protocol they're all working so together sitting in a group trying to come up with the design they'll have a lot of questions ma'am what will happen if the last packet is dropped what will happen whatever it is so there's a lot of interaction happening and it's a small group it's easy for me to manage so I go about correcting them saying oh no no you didn't think it properly think again whatever so they're learning in the process it's not that there this activity I'm saying given that we have only three hours it's not that they have other courses to do they're not going to spend six hours or seven hours on computer networks how best to utilize the time so what they're learning during that activity where our rest is all pushed out and you're having a face-to-face focus they're also learning in that way that's why I'm talking about the mixture of these two techniques will be more efficient than the traditional or than the flipping mode method no but you are kind of so I'm saying in my flipped classroom model I am not repeating my lecture I'm focusing on using the concept in applying it in a different context so that they can generalize what they've learned across that is also very important I think you were saying in the perspective of ITB I'm talking from the perspective we are thinking in the perspective of the our local engineering colleges where we have to repeat a thing a lot of time sure fine whatever works for you so if the material is there yeah if you think that repeating it is going to drive in the point much more effectively than that's the way to go about it there is nothing stop all I'm saying is some of the advantages like watching many times student space everyone getting to answer a question I think those are also very important as far as learning if you permit me then I want to present a model where we can provide the video to the our to our students those who are motivated and dedicated they can watch the video prior to the lecture delivery attend the lecture then after again watch the video do the quiz and those friends who are absent in the classroom they simply see the video observe it and do the quiz after that we can we can provide them the tough assignments and tough evolution system so my question is I don't know what the motivation levels of an average student is will an app see I think many of us make even I myself included make this fault is that we tend to target the most motivated people I don't think we should target purposefully you should think I am not going to target the most motivated people in the class I want to target the average guy I want to increase the level of learning of the average guy I do not want to increase anyone who is motivated they will do whatever is needed to get the material I'm not going to target so this is something I have been doing in the past off late I have made a conscious effort saying that I'm not going to target whatever I'm going to design is for the average in the class you should target them others will do whatever I mean the motivated will do whatever is needed the less motivated will not do whatever is the average people you need to target whatever it is that if you put more hurdles for them saying you watch this you watch that you do this you do that they are not going to do it so you need to ensure whatever limited time you have to motivate them best whatever works for you I agree thank you regarding the possibility I think it's very much possible from my institute in IT but I'll just like to clarify one thing suppose I take a class today on Mac layer of Envoy network and today evening I think I must say something about the wireless tomorrow so that flexibility I have in a conventional classroom system but in the flip class if I once I make the materials and ready can I alter this for a small module on this so that they can I can add that too so if you're talking about using this platform and the whatever course material is there the instructors can add their own content also as part of the so there will again as I said it's still not done fully the design is there will be a content developer so a given section page will have a content developer portion where the content will come directly from whatever exists in the database and then below it will be an instructor page where you can upload whatever you want so if you want to upload some additional slides or additional reading material or even videos you will have the flexibility to upload your stuff yeah so it's because we do realize the fact that a local instructor you may not be happy with the way I conducted the mac lecture you may want to deliver it in your own fashion or whatever so this is flexible enough that certain things you don't want that is why I said you pull you don't like my mac don't take it you use your you can pull even from if there are multiple offerings you can pull mac from one guy networking layer from another instructor if there are multiple instructor or you add your own stuff so like referring any other books anything yeah whatever you want yeah so the platform is flexible enough to provide this feature by the way these features are coming up they are not there as part of the system ma'am one more question like regarding the tutorial classes suppose we have some courses four credit courses three theory one tutorial and the basically the tutorials are assigned to the research scholars so how the student the instructor and the research scholar how they could be linked up I mean so that you can have efficient output for that so if the face to face as I said is very important so you should have somewhere where the instructor I'm assuming is the most capable of the lot so the face to face some portion of it the instructor has to have without it I think the quality is going to go down the way you could involve the research scholars is by some of the problems so not so this is also something I've done is if there's a very well-defined problem I pose the problem people start working in groups and this kind of well-defined problems where the solution is already known the research scholar already knows this is like a practice you know maybe many of you the gate placements or whatever you do a lot of practice problems for you to master such that you do well in your exams so the research scholars can run that kind of so for example you may choose within this to hide away all the quizzes like don't expose the quizzes that are there as part of the content take the quizzes give it to the research scholars who kind of learn all the solutions they understand the solutions let them all sit together in a group let the students start solving the problems and he will go around correcting saying okay you didn't get it right you got it right whatever let them discuss and kind of solve some such if the content is not a clarification or something which is very well defined you can make use of research scholars to conduct some of these tutorials where they're basically solving practice problems thank you ma'am one one question ma'am basically ma'am I feel this technique is beneficial for the average students but for my students there is one problem because we are affiliated on technical university they're one pattern for the examination I simply feel I provide some application of some topics and I put that application question in the exam in the internal exam and whole class walk out because they said this is the out of course because in the previous questions there is no any question on the application of this kind of thing right ma'am but means the students are focused on the university questions what the pattern of the university and they are focusing on those only things so that they got the better marks is there any possibility in course where in the Stanford they offering quidges they offering the examination after the course so that they got the certificate from the Stanford so if is there any possibility from the IITB that they offering the certification for a particular examination after the course so that students is motivated to get attended those classes or those those type of the things so that they got the knowledge as well as the certificate for the writing their resume so I think it's good for the IITB to do for our students also sure I think what you have raised is a very valid point which came up even in the first thing even professor Fatik had commented on it so as long as the syllabus and the students an average student like unlike what you are saying an average student is interested in getting good grade in that particular thing that is what motivates him rest of it the love for the subject and all is a secondary concern for them now he needs a good grade in which case he has to prepare according to that particular syllabus examination pattern of that particular university so that I think is a given I think you have to work when you're working around all this you have to work towards that now current system is such that if you want to do like this let me tell if you want to use the current system in that particular thing there are I wouldn't rule it out but it's a not a very good fit but that said some of the things you can do is you could use let's say these meet whatever one thing is if that's what I also mentioned everyone is if you share with me your syllabus so some concepts are covered if there are additional concepts as part of your syllabus that are not covered if you share with me over time I'm going to prepare the material for those as well and add it on so that is one but the kind of questions I ask maybe are very different from the kind of questions that they see as part of the university exam maybe the tutorial sessions or whatever should be such that they learn the concepts see once you understand it it's you know it's a less of a problem to answer the kind of question so let's say you go through this material I I mean you should correct me if I'm wrong but my feeling is if you understood this maybe it is easier for the students to answer your university problems with some practice I'm not saying practice is important they do not interested to give more effort they are interested to less effort ma'am okay fine so the point I'm making is you can use this material according to the so whatever concept has to be covered as part of your syllabus let's say all that is there which anyway is kind of what you're going to teach in the classroom setting the same syllabus I'm going to cover as ma'am basically problem is this our students said sir so the problem is this ma'am because we are simply doing effort we are put the students motivate the students to do some efforts for this course this course is beneficial for you the company asked the question from this course but they said only two days enough for us so as I said those cases you really cannot do much that's why I said it's probably not a good fit but that said point to make is professor Fatak was also mentioning he is in talk with the university university grants commission and other things to kind of change go away from that model so then it'll happen it's a matter of a few years so we do we don't want that kind of a road like explain the OSI protocol stack I mean what it's like there is really nothing to explain there it's it's a so those kind of questions shouldn't be asked so there is so we as a we are you know we are at the very beginning stage of using technology for effective education only a few years is going to bring the clarity there are efforts on multiple directions one is to change that kind of syllabus type of a thing where this kind of road the other as you mentioned is also where IIT be some of the questions maybe if you're following this material the question paper can also be set based on this material bias and passed on to the individual or even the grading like some portion maybe 30% or 40% I think he told opposite like maybe he said only 20% from the local and 80% is coming from but I feel that was a too much of a but I think maybe 60% should come from there 40% should come from here whatever it is so some system has to be worked out to solve that particular problem what is that system I think many efforts are going on in that direction I think some clarity will emerge in a few years time yes even some of the technical universities are going to make this compulsory in recent few years that the at least four courses in engineering degree must be conducted in blended MOOCs mode the same mode that you are discussing so definitely the engineering colleges or the department different departments are only concerned with that whether they need to select the databases or the data extractors if they are having a good instructor for the databases then definitely they need to select the data extractors just only this is the matter okay yeah so there is effort in this direction so hopefully things will become clearer soon the platform that you are using over here so if I how I can incorporate my own lectures that means I want to capture my own videos so how can you use your platform to do that so that is what I'm saying which I had mentioned the this is an additional feature so this is a growing platform but we do want to add the feature that as an instructor when you log in you have a syllabus right based on the syllabus so you will see a content developer what are all the concepts it comes as a playlist you select I want these these these concepts you pull them you you kind of have a late organizes itself into a the first content sheet that you're seeing now on top of it if you want to add for a given concept you want to add something else of your own in that concept page itself you'll have an area which is an instructor area where you can add whatever you want like pdf slides even videos or if you want to add additional concepts which are not there as part of it you can create additional concepts and add these are all features that are not I mean they will come in later versions we are all working towards them this is the issue which is faced by most of engineering so the problem is so whatever we thought so it is assessed only by using assignments so whatever the assignments we are given only very few of the students will be working on that so the remaining students will photocopy will make the photocopy of that and submitting it to the student staff yeah so how to avoid this because we cannot able to create 70 or 100 set of questions to give it to the each and every individual that are students so how to avoid this we face similar problem at IIT Bombay so it's not like these people are whole here then so it's so copying is a big issue even here so earlier I personally used to give home assignments because I feel I felt you know the kind of questions you can ask in an exam setting there is a time pressure right you can't have an exam to some extent we have open-ended exams also so if we don't have three hours we will say okay so we have put the TS six hours seven hours you take you finish the exam and go but ideally you want to go even further like give them one week's time to solve some problem or whatever but the moment you make it a home assignment as you said it's like a good a good number don't copy but there's a good number that copy as well so how to tackle it I stopped giving homeworks just because of this particular problem but then the problem becomes that over the years they also have a very good database they have answers question papers of the past 10 years they know whatever so you cannot really repeat a particular question because you know but then this is what I reasoned out if there is a student who had sat and solved the last 10 year question papers maybe he deserves the grade he gets I mean if he was putting the effort understood the problems and done everything it's I'm I'm talking about the kind of problems we set are not the like the kind of questions those are easy to maybe doesn't challenge them or whatever but if you are setting problems which are relatively tricky and they're not kind of straight forward like some of the problems you have seen as part of the platform if those kind of problems the student actually went through understood all the problems for the past 10 years solve them and is able to reproduce it and get a good grade I think he deserves the grade so the point I'm making is so we have a question bank apart from whatever is exposed there are a bunch of other questions we keep modifying them over the years also so we take it we twist we change some parameter we add one additional thing blah blah and we try not to for the repeat questions to the extent possible but sometimes questions do get repeated the idea there is again there's a bigger bank you keep repeating questions maybe over five years span or whatever it is and the idea is if someone has done due diligence by doing all that then fine he deserves the grade because he's that's the practice he's put in it's okay what's your view about open book assignments in the classroom that is we do it periodically just because whatever we ask they cannot solve by looking at their notes so the kind of questions we set it's an open book exam so it's not like you see and you can copy and you are done so you have to apply what the notes only help them so the reason why we do open book exams is a lot of times you don't want them to recollect the fact because you can google and get the fact it's not that if they forget the fact it's it shouldn't penalize them in the solving the thing so the facts and all they can get from the thing but they have to use the facts and applying in a different context and solving that only their thinking will help so that's why we allow open book so all our exams are majority of the teachers do open book exams here but that's a function of how you set the question paper of course you say explain osa protocol stack then open book go and do hello ma'am i think our primary objective is whether this flip model will be applicable to our college or not if it is applicable then we can customize as per our own infrastructure if i think it has a black box of this model as a flip model what is about your observation that should be as input so that the output will be on and the ground reality of most of the engineering colleges i think i my all of my learned friend will share me when a student entered in the college by the virtue of the view and vision of the management as well as the parent they enter not in engineering college but they entered in an employment exchange and they have to stay three years for after that they start preparation for the placement that is the final objective and that the death of the equation second is infrastructure i think to implement all these things we need a smart classroom and i don't know how many private colleges can have the ability because it is not in the hand of the coordinator whether i can implement in my in my college is smart classroom and apart from that the bandwidth of the internet on wi-fi that is also not in my hand and i think that is applicable to all the coordinators sitting over here so what is your objective as an input if i think it has a black box testing what are the inputs for this model and by that way we can think about whether it can be implemented in our college whether we have been able to put those input with the management and the other faculty members thank you this is my question so one is from the students where you said the their focus is on placement and what it is it is true even here the in fact that is one of the biggest problems we face motivating students in fact it is probably worse here i don't know i mean maybe we feel it's worse because once they clear je and come here especially in csc department they're all burnt out i mean they have slogged for like maybe five years spending so much amount of effort and time that once they come here they think that's it they've achieved whatever they need to achieve in life from here on it's just let's enjoy so many of them are not focused on education as such they are not interested i wouldn't say there are definitely good number who are interested but a bulk are not interested in studies anymore and not only that their job placement is guaranteed so the itb tag means they'll get a job pretty good job they learn much more than their teachers so that is also kind of assured so there is no incentive for them and then they get into all these festivals and moody indigo tech fest blah blah so that it looks good on the resume that they were this event manager blah and all and finally there in fact it's more severe in other departments like mechanical and all because all of them also migrate to the software or to the finance companies so given this their motivation for studies is definitely low in fact that is something we struggle with in terms of motivating all these experiments are just to keep them motivated so on now what can one do to keep them motivated i think more than itb at least in other engineering colleges i feel is that especially in csc other departments i think is a much more difficult problem to solve is if you can through whatever you are providing if you are providing some employability skills like you're saying you do this this needs a lot of revisions it's not like if the course content is like this but as i said computer networks if you're teaching some concepts are important but i think a lot more portion of it should be on what does it mean to be a network system administrator or some such kind of employability kind of a skills if you're inculcating and later if you see that the companies are asking that or if they have done this then for example if they say they did this from iitb whatever and that certification he was talking about and they got it then and the company values that then it's like there is incentive for them to do it as well as the company also is everything is related to employability finally so you should work towards building a system that focuses on that and that as i said just answering his question you need to work that ecosystem regarding your second question as to what infrastructure is needed at your end to kind of facilitate it i mean there are many solutions first of all there is no expectation other than a server which potentially is running in your thing and a local area network which i presume most colleges probably have which is 100 mbps local area network with a decent server servers typically kind of cost maybe a lack or something like that i think that's more or less what i'm not talking about you don't need really smartphones for all the students if you have great maybe you can do something more but it's not needed for some of these things so the infrastructure and and naturally a good connection from the server to maybe the iitb such that any updates so this so what i'm talking about is maybe i should clarify there are two ways of going about it one is we run the server and all of you are kind of logging into it that is not a scalable model it's especially with so many colleges so many other pipes have to be really the other thing is to distribute it where you run your own servers where the servers are kind of managed by us where we push the content there and you are running locally on the 100 the bandwidth for your server to our server should be decent but many of these things are not dynamic also lot of once the content is in place it's just a static and it's only some things that go there is no real-time guarantees or all those things are not essential if i'm pushing maybe i can take even two days to push all my content into your thing before the start of the it's not that it has to happen within a minute so all these infrastructure issues i'm not i'm saying they can be tackled it's not like a stumbling block as when it comes to implementing them so we feel a distributed architecture where each college hosts a local server which is connected in turn to a good local area network which the students can access and this server in turn is connected to itb through a decent connection by decent i mean we're not talking it's not for 50 kbps connection but at least one mbps quad-hour connection we can manage myself Miral de Burma from NIT Agartala there i have a small quote is actually this is the nice concept for in our college also so how we can implement this so problem is a little rules regulation in our college like undergraged quotes the attendance is mandatory 70 percent and for teachers also need to conduct three plus one like three tutorials lectures and one tutorials and so the internet connections also there are problems like how we can access from itb the to implement this flip model so that so so everything is stored locally on your thing only the updates over time will come from itb otherwise the server which is hosting all the content is on your own machine on your local area network and you're pulling content from the server from your own server so it shouldn't cause any issues you're saying in your institute lectures are compulsory face-to-face yourself yes yes yeah i mean yeah that if the institute policy is like that then you have to change the policy that say demonstrate the advantage of this model and convince the management to change the policy such that yeah yeah even here we had to take the permission of the dean and everything to do go for this model good morning your model is good we are working self-financing colleges under Anna University Chennai in our institutes already the instructor suggested to go for the valuation nb accreditation and affiliation and the department activities works and the students attendance monitoring already we have a heavy workload in the meantime and the recording in the course contents is very difficult suppose if we recorded the videos if the video is a poor quality or having some noises the students is not interested to view the videos so that is my that is my opinion don't take it as a negative opinion and and if the video is not having a good quality the students are not interested to view the videos and also in our self-financing institutions are mainly focusing on the first the placement activities the second is mainly focusing on producing the good results in that scenario the institute suggested to the instructors keep on practicing the previous year questions papers by writing the continuous assessment writing tests like internal tests and classroom tests these kind of activities only continue continuously done in our self-financing institutions so in that situations if we are implementing this type of flipped model maybe it may be success suppose if it fails in our institute the respective faculty may send outside to the institution so so this is my opinion okay so regarding your first question of video well the idea was for I mean if you want to create your own videos most welcome but the idea is for you to use the videos I have created within your college because as I said some I mean why reproduce something I mean if something is already out there you might as well leverage it and use it but if you are keen on creating something for enhancement or add on to it fine because as I said this video creation is like writing a textbook not all people like you follow someone's textbook it's just like that instead of you following some textbook of some person you are following the multimedia textbook created by me some it's equivalent of it that way I don't see any distinction between what you are doing so that way in fact your load is reduced in the sense that you don't have to prepare that much for your delivery anymore you can focus that time on some of the practice problems or whatever so on so forth now the regarding the second question as I said it depends upon the goals of your institute these may not align with the goals I think others also had pointed it out either you convince the people to give it a shot and see how it is or if they are not convinced then nothing much can be done it has certain advantages it will relieve you of preparing for the lectures that time you can spend on whatever designing appropriate questions spending time with the students solving those practice problems or whatever it is so that way it can help but whether I mean yeah I'm not responsible if you're out of job you make the call yourself whether you want to convince the management or not yeah I think we should break