 Welcome, and thanks to all of you that have joined us today either for this live episode or perhaps you're tuning in to a recording, either way thrilled to have you either watching or listening. Today we're going to talk about what does a COO do, and do you need one and we're talking about this with Dean Sheiner, who is serving as the chief operations officer at St. Joseph the worker, and we're excited to have you with us today. Thanks to Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy that got the show going and growing we are on to our 500 plus plus episode. I'm honored to serve alongside Julia as the co host. I'm Jared Ransom, your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group, and Julie and I are both esteemed to have the continued support from our presenting sponsors. For those of you that are watching you can see these on your screen, those of you that are listening. I would like to give a shout out to blimmering American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy nonprofit nerd, your part time controller, the nonprofit nonprofit thought leader, as well as staffing boutique. I mentioned we have over 500 episodes there's actually over 800 video elements. You can find them on Roku YouTube fire TV as well as Vimeo. Plus, we are now streaming on podcast so wherever you listen to your podcast and you stream your favorite podcast, go ahead and queue up the nonprofit show because Dean Sheiner thrilled to have you here this episode will not only go to our video platforms but also that podcast. So welcome my friend I'm glad to have you with me this morning. Thank you Jared I've been looking forward to this all week since you invited me. I'm excited. This is something that you know kind of tongue in cheek you said to me Dean. When do I get to have a guest episode on the show and I said your time's coming you just wait so. So here it is Dean Sheiner chief operations officer at St. Joseph the worker. That is quite a big job. Why don't you tell us a little bit about St. Joseph the worker and your role there. Sure. So St. Joseph the worker has been present here in the Valley for over 34 years our mission is straight and forward we help disadvantaged communities and populations, including homeless. People coming out of substance abuse even come people coming out of prison. Find jobs. It's a hand up strategy to addressing the homeless problem here in Phoenix. Fantastic that is quite a big, quite a big mission. Well as we move into this, you know, let's start off with a very simplistic or is it simplistic question. What exactly is a COO. I have a feeling that our whole conversation is not going to be very simplistic the questions are fairly simple but the answers. So nothing cut in stone. So a COO is just what it says is the chief operations or chief operating officer. The role encompasses responsibility for the day to day workings of any organization where it lives on the work chart really depends on the organization. So in this case here at St. Joseph the worker. I sit on the work chart, along with our chief philanthropy officer reporting directly into our CEO. You're right and there's a lot of talk right now Dean that's it's a big trend about co leadership and so, you know really looking at how do we divide the day to day operations, and everything, you know within the organization so having that COO really, I believe helps to relieve a lot of the pressure of those day to day responsibilities with that CEO. So thank you for that answer and you're right this, they're simple questions they're not necessarily simple answers because every organization, they could they could approach this differently. Let's move into the learning curve and the role as an effective change agent. What has your personal learning curve been in this new role as COO Dean. Oh wow. Great question. And I would say that my experience has been a little bit out of the box frankly. I've never been a COO before. And if you can't tell already, I'm sort of mid later stages of my career. In fact, I had not worked in the nonprofit sector up until about 67 years ago. So, I am on a very steep learning curve and that's a function not only of my prior experience outside of philanthropy and even outside of the social services, but also by the nature of our organization. So, my learning curve as has been, as I said, really steep. I came in here in January, and it was a perfect storm and I say that in a good way it was a perfect storm of events that really had me jump right in. We are an organization that is growing by leaps and bounds our budget has more than doubled over the last year. We and with that comes more programming, more staff and more complexity and to boot our executive director, who is the face of organization had to go on medically for about three months so I really had to immerse myself into everything about the course of the worker, our people, our clients, our programs, our processes, and I wouldn't have been able to do it without a very valuable sidekick at my side could never have done it alone. So, and as far as a change agent goes. I think the instinct for a lot of people when they come into a new role is to like, okay, I'm going to come in and I'm going to do my thing and, you know, I'll have respect for what's in place, but I'm going to change things and do it my way I was hired to bring change to the organization, but my personal style is to be methodical thoughtful, be a good listener and really get my arms around what the organization looks like before I affect change. And now, almost four months in, and thank, and in large part because I have such great colleagues at the leadership level and at the staff level. We are now ready to affect that positive change within the organization. Fantastic. How much does empathy play in this role. A lot. And we are an organization that prides itself on on empathy as a result of the type of work we do and the clientele that we're working with. But putting that aside, I think, to be an effective leader, whether you're the CEO or the chief philanthropy officer or the chief administration or the CEO like myself. You have to be able to put yourself in other people's shoes. You have to be a good listener. You have to understand what every individual skill set is, and what their potential for growth is and expanding that skill set so you really have to learn a lot about what drives other people. And for me personally, that's been my go to, in addition to what I said earlier about having great partners, I really had to leverage the empathy that I think I bring to the table to be successful. I have a lot of articles, white papers blog post right now about leadership and empathy and how empathy is probably the largest characteristic, greatest characteristic that so many of our leaders, as you just said, regardless of your title regardless of your role is really you know, a great characteristic trait in in that leadership so thank you, thank you for touching on that. How have you been embraced because I understand this is truly the first time that this organization over 30 years 33 years for St. Joseph the worker. So this is the first time that the org chart has introduced that COO. How has this look like by way of a view coming in being embraced for this first time opportunity. The most important thing for me and I shared this with our CEO and our consultant to hired me the most important thing for me to do when I stepped into this role was to establish trust and credibility. I recognize that I absolutely had to earn it. It is not a rubber stamp that I'm going to walk in here with a title and a resume and people are all of a sudden going to trust me. That goes for any organization, but it's even more so given our organization in the in terms of the nature of the work that we do. We have a lot of staff members who have had life experiences so quite frankly, you know trust has an issue, especially when we have a leader who's been running the organization for 10 years, and has been the rainmaker. And when you compound that that our CEO had to go on medical leave you can just see the challenges that I face and again, I've been outsider. I've never been a CEO before if somebody looked at my resume. I was working in banking six years ago I wasn't even living in Phoenix 10 years ago. So, truth be told, I was not embraced initially. And I, it was hard. I mean, I, I really tried to not take it personally, but I'm human and I did a little bit. I stayed the course and I recognize that this was not about me personally it's about the organization and how I have to evolve and integrate myself into everything St. Joseph the worker and I can honestly say that now four months and I've actually turned the corner. And I didn't do it by myself, but I feel that I am now being embraced and it feels really good. My goal is to make this organization the best place possible to work and I think our staff for buying into that. Fantastic. You know, I, you're right anytime a leader comes in at any position but especially in those leadership the executive leadership office, some people refer to it as the C suite right. I think that it insights a little bit of fear fear of the unknown fear of change fear of new staff fear of is my job, you know, secure what does that look like. We've seen it happen during you know some people call it the great resignation others are calling it the great reshuffle and and really looking at okay when a new leadership comes into place. Right, that change the dynamics of our organization so I think you spoke to that so perfectly eloquently and let's not forget Kobe right I mean, I'll have PTSD. And I don't use that term lightly, but I think a lot of people do have PTSD from Kobe in terms of what the what the work environment looks like going forward. And I played into it as well. Great, you know, great point because we're not quite in the endemic stage of this but you know we're still having to navigate, you know, just really everything with the global health crisis. Thank you for bringing that to the to the front as well. What about the long term impacts of having and using a CEO effectively within your organization. What might we see, you know, over years because again this isn't, this isn't overnight you would just share that you've been here, you know, four months working with this organization, and you're just starting to turn some corners really and establishing some roots, some rapport, some trust. So what will these long term impacts mean for this organization. It's evolving Jared. Honestly, this was an organization that was really run as a family very successfully and to the credit of our CEO to the credit of our consultant who helped hire me and to the credit of the board. They recognize that there was a need for this role. So, what the organization laid out for my role is great as a start, but I think we all have to be flexible and about what the role of the CEO always going to be within this organization has I envision it. As we talked about, we are growing by leaps and bounds we are at the nexus of a lot of trends that are going on increase in homelessness, increase in government funding to help us fix this problem. There's a shortage of employees out there so, so we are right in the in the sweet spot of all these things are going on and I think the COO is going to be integral to figure out how we sustain our model, but configure it for the future. And it's, it's going to be changing every minute but as long as the leadership and the board understands that it's not set in stone with the COO is going to look like you're going forward, we're going to be successful. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so important and you know really as you look at everything that happens within an organization, the board are fiduciary agents and they work so closely with the CEO. The leadership team is really responsible for the day to day operations that happen within the offices within the programming within the fundraising department. There's a lot of moving pieces to this. You touched a little bit about how it's an evolution and I'm curious Dean if the evolution also means that the COO perhaps is air apparent meaning does this like innately bake in some succession planning. So the CEO COO, excuse me, is a very has very important input into the succession plan. However, that doesn't mean this CEO has a red carpet to the CEO role. Not at all. And again, I discussed earlier about how the CEO, CEO role is going to evolve here. So it, it doesn't necessarily mean I or any other COO has a leg up. I mean you can think of countless organizations where you know the head of programming or the chief financial officer becomes the CEO. So it really depends on the organization, it really depends on the job performance of the CEO COO, how readily the COO takes to the mission, how staff takes to the COO how the board takes to the COO. So nothing is set in stone. So that that really is an open, an open question sure the COO is, you know, is in the mix, but it's not a feta complete that that's COO graduates the CEO the CEO could stay on board for another 1520 years. And as you said, you know the CEO really has a lot of insight and conversation into the succession conversation. I think you know this I am a huge advocate for professional interim succession leaders that could be an interim CEO, COO, whichever role that looks like. I think that actually also is an advantage to perhaps the COO or another leader, because it gives them the true ability to step into the role without kind of like playing a substitute teacher in that space if you will. So, so I've always been a huge advocate of interim succession leaders. And I think, you know, as we look at succession planning, I hope, honestly Dean, that it's not just the CEO that's considering their succession right it's really kind of at all of the leaders throughout the org chart. And that's you know what we talked about first is what is a COO and where do they sit on the org chart. And so really look at succession planning, I think, holistically through the organization is probably best. Another input you can have into that decision making the better. And one other thing I, the beauty of having an outsourced piece to this, in terms of the input is that that person brings a level of objectivity to the table that might not be as present if you have somebody who's totally immersed into the operations there's a little bit of a separation, which could be helpful. I agree I call that truth to power. Right, and we're able because I've served in this role in several capacities with several different agencies throughout the nation in fact, and really working in that space of truth to power because I'm not so worried about my job security. I'm able to pull back pull back the curtains show some of the dust bunnies that have been hanging around and they need to be swept out right so looking, looking at some of that. I would like if you are willing Dean to throw you a curveball because again if any of you joined us in the green room chatter Dean is in fact a fanatic when it comes to baseball, but my curveball. I know you're going to hit a home run so no pressure here but I know you can. It really goes back to what you stated. Six years ago, you were in the banking business. 10 years ago you did not live in the community in which you're serving as a COO. What insight and suggestions would you give to other professionals like yourself that are looking to intentionally move career into the not for not for profit sector to serve in a capacity of leadership like this because I hear this quite a bit you know and I hear individuals saying, is this relatable or my skill sets you know are they going to be welcomed in the nonprofit sector. What insight would you provide. Sure. So, the first is to know yourself and get your arms around your capacity for risk at the stage of life where you're considering this. Because you need to be honest with yourself about whether or not you have the stomach. Mid career to change, you also have to be honest with yourself, whether or not you have the skills to transition to this new career that you have outlined for yourself. Once you've gotten over those couple of not obstacles but steps. I think that you have to be very open to networking, building relationships, and having conviction to know like this is the goal and this is what I want to do. You may have spent the first 30 years of your career, most of which relying on yourself, but now you are in a position where you will do best by by being open to getting the help from others in terms of introductions, even hiring a coach, even participating in leadership seminars, which may seem rudimentary to you like why am I doing this I've been in the work workforce for 30 years. But you need to be open to that. And then, again, not everybody may be as fortunate as I was but to have the support of friends and family goes a long way to making this happen. And you know what, like in baseball, you need a little luck. Great advice, great advice. I knew you would hit it out of the park and again this is, this is a common question that I personally have heard, you know, quite quite a bit of individuals wanting to transition into being of service, you know, in this way. I'm so glad to have you here to talk about your COO experience serving for St. Joseph the worker so Dean Shiner. Thank you so very much. If any of you are interested in contacting Dean, learning more about St. Joseph the worker. Please take note of his email here as well as the web address for St. Joseph the worker. So it's D Shiner, S C I in ERT at SJW jobs.org it's a mouthful. I mean, thank you. It's fantastic. I get the great pleasure of working so closely with you day in and day out, living here in the community and working so closely, you know, on this mission as well so grateful, grateful to have you. Thank you, Jared and thank you for all those who tuned in. Absolutely, we had quite a bit. Julia Patrick's and joining some enjoying excuse me sometime in California. We all deserve a little R and R and I hope that she's having a fantastic time. Welcome, your nonprofit nerd. Again, we are honored to have the continued support of our presenting sponsors. They are blooming American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy nonprofit nerd, your part time controller the nonprofit atlas nonprofit thought as well as staffing boutique so thank you and please do check out those companies because they are here to help you move the needle with your mission so check them out. They're fantastic companies. We had a great opportunity to work with several of them with many organizations, and I've got to see their good work put put into action so Dean, thank you again and to all of you that joined us live or watching this recording grateful to have you here. I'm Jared ransom the nonprofit nerd and please join us back here tomorrow. Until then, stay well, so you can do well.