 December 21st, 2020 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves. Martha Smirsky, Member. Hannah Smith, Member. Steve Everett, Member. Meredith Crandall, Staff. And I will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process. Go ahead, Meredith. Sounds good. I'm going to do something a little different. Let's see if this will work. All right. Can everybody see that? Yes. All right. So this is mostly for people viewing over at ORCA who are looking to figure out how to get onto the meeting. And then also, that's what the slide is up for. So you can access the Zoom meeting through this link. You can call in at this number here. Whoops, backwards. There we go. You can call in this number. And then you have your meeting ID and password. I mean, if you have problems accessing the meeting, please email me. I've got that open while I'm in the meeting. I'll leave this up for a little bit. So please note that if you're having difficulties while accessing the video conferencing features in Zoom, then you can message me through the chat function. Please keep those chats to those procedural, not procedural, but those technology issues because we'd like to keep everything viewable to the public if at all possible. This Zoom meeting is being recorded, as well as streamed live via ORCA media. Turning on your video is optional. All public testimony will be taken verbally. Please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking to reduce background noise. And if you call in via phone, you can use star 6 to mute or unmute if for some reason you don't have that mute button on your phone. If you're interested in speaking on a particular matter, if you call in and didn't say you would like to speak previously, please raise your hand, either physically if you're on your video or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. If you're on the phone, you can press star 9 to do that. We do have two different application representatives on. I don't see any other members of the public right now. Please make sure that you wait to be recognized by the chair before you speak. And when you do, please provide your full name. And if any members of the public come on, in addition to your full name, please make sure you include your address for the record. In the event the public is unable to access this meeting, it will be continued to a time and place certain. And if you're having connectivity issues, try turning off your video or closing other applications on your phone or computer. And if you're having trouble seeing the document screen share, then all files are uploaded to this agenda's and minutes page on the city website. All right. I'm going to hand this back over to the chair. Oh, please note that all votes taken during this meeting will be done by roll call. All righty. There you go. All you Steve. Okay. I was just waiting for the screen to come back up. Do I hear a motion for approval? Can you hear me? Yep. So moved. To approve the agenda. I second it. All in favor of approving the agenda. Speak your names. Martha. Hannah. And Steve. So we can move forward to the first application. For 623 stone cutters way for the hunger mountain co-op. Is Carrie Bradley there. Yeah, good evening. Hi, Carrie Bradley, a general manager of the co-op. Thank you for having me here tonight. Yes, go ahead and describe your application for us. Thank you. Yeah, so we're seeking to build a couple of temporary walls. Outside as a wind block for our customers. Since April, we've been limiting the number of shoppers in the building at any one time. To comply with the. I guess it would be recommended maximum occupancy limits by the state as an essential business. We're not actually bound to those occupancy limits, but we still see a safety benefit to limiting the number of people in the building at once. And so with all the staff and the local vendors that we have here, we're currently limiting the number of customers to 35. And that means that some folks are having to wait outside during the busiest times like today. And as the weather changes, we would like to provide them with some shelter. We've looked at various options and we're thinking something just very simple to protect from wind. And I guess driving rain and snow. So. If you, if you have our sketch, we're looking to use the existing structure that's out there, post and beam structure. That's open now to the right of the front door. So we're going to go ahead and close that with some wood. Paneling and batten that matches the exterior. So this would, that would be the, okay. So this is the sketch shows the two sides that we're looking to. Partially in clothes. And on the east and north side. And then using plexiglass for windows. And then we're going to go ahead and open that up. And then we're going to go ahead and open that up for people to enter. So it's not a lot of protection, but we think it will help for people that are waiting outside. And it's all designed to be temporary to get us through the winter months. That's kind of it. Happy to answer questions. Is the opening on the north elevation, the doorway. Is there a door there? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want people to have to navigate a door. Touching, opening a door. So we'll leave that open. And again, it's pretty modest in terms of the. Shelter that it provides, but it'll be, I think a lot better than nothing. If it, if you have an issue with wind coming through that opening. Yeah. You could, you could do sort of a, a folding. When the wind comes through the door, it would take away from the door and then turn back towards the, towards the east elevation, which would shelter that from the. The northwest. Okay. And again, that, that would just be an option for you. If, if this becomes a wind tunnel because of the opening. Sure. Yeah, that's good. Thank you. Again, it would act just like a, any comments, questions, suggestions regarding the the windscreen? No. No, we're good. Okay. The the window openings, would they have plexiglass in them fixed plexiglass? Yes, exactly. That's what we're thinking. Okay. If nobody has any other comments or suggestions we can go through there as a set of criteria. I'll go ahead and read through them. One for all projects exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings should be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building. Additions to existing buildings shall respect to be compatible with the size, scale, materials detailing and overall character of the primary building and its environs. Additions so not obscure or undermine the essential forming character of the original building. That's acceptable. Number two existing buildings shall be recognized as the changes that create a false sense of these new construction additions and all. There's several other criteria that are not applicable. And then there's one down below which certainly is acceptable. Development shall be designed to respect views of the state house dome. It's not likely from there. Rhythm visual patterns is established by the alterations of solid walls and openings, windows and doors in the facade of a building shall create a rhythm. Proportional architectural detail sense of rhythm and regular spacing of fenestrations shall be considered. Scale and massing shall present a variety of composition that's acceptable. And that was all the criteria and what we can do is for an optional change, I'll just say a removable or hinged two panel screen can be created to protect the north elevation doorway and again compatible with the remaining design. And again, that's an option. You don't have to do it, but if it turns out to be a bit of a wind tunnel, you can put that for protection. All in favor of the application, speak your names. Martha, yes. Anna, yes. And Steve, yes. So the application is approved. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much for coming before the committee and good luck with your project. And hopefully you can get it built while the weather's still this warm. Yeah, yeah. Happy solstice. Yes. Bye-bye. Bye. Hey, good luck. Thank you. Steve? Yes. I don't know if you know that you're going, you're coming in and out with your audio. I'm hearing the same thing with everyone else and I'm not sure why. Okay. You might need to just turn your video off. Okay. Okay. We'll try that and see if that's better. Is that better? So far. I'm not sure why it's breaking up that way. Yeah. We're getting a message that says that your bandwidth is low. I don't know what that means, but that's what it says. I'm not, I'm not sure why because I have, I have very decent Wi-Fi here and I have had all day. I'm not sure why it shrunk at this point. I'll do the best I can. Sure. This is better. Okay. We can go to the next application for the sign at 17 State Street, Greenlight Real Estate. Is there someone from Greenlight who would like to review the application? You're both muted still. Well, John's figuring that out. I'm ready, Mike, as owner of Greenlight Real Estate. John's going to speak the DRC language. I was listening to some of the questions that Kari was being asked. I wasn't sure I'd be able to answer them so I'm glad John's here. I don't know a little work on the iPhone when you log in via Zoom, but try doing the star six on the phone and see if that un-mutes you. Interface, a lot of times down in the bottom left-hand corner of the Zoom window, there is a little microphone button that lets you mute and unmute. Unfortunately, I can't un- Oh, yep, there you go. Thank you there, John. I think you can talk, John. Maybe. Any luck with the audio? It looks like he's un-muted, but maybe there's an issue with accessing the iPhone microphone. Ray, if you're comfortable with it, I can pull up the application package. If you want to just talk about what the sign is in general, I think we can probably at least get through that. I will do my best, yes. Good, you're coming through. Pull to there because I think that's probably the best thing to look at right now. Let me know if you want me to scroll to something else, Ray. No, I think that that does it. I don't exactly know how to describe it. John very eloquently relayed the artistic vision behind it, and I am one to defer to experts. I didn't tinker with it. What I can say right now, the way that that band across the store for a level of that building, it's not attractive, and I'm sure that the owners wouldn't disagree with that statement. Having a sign up there actually does make the building look better. It's a mental sign, and there is some lighting to it. There's power to just be accessible from the inside of the building, punched through the facade. I'm not sure what else to tell you. Thank you. John sent me another image. Let me pull that up. He and I had a conversation about the lighting for this. Can you see this email with this other image? Yes. I had had some conversations with John Miller about whether what they were proposing was internally illuminated sign or not. The fact is that it's not. There's lighting behind these metal letters. It's a halo effect, so it's not going to be really going out so much, because it's that more subtle green light behind it, just so that you can see it in the evening hours, especially in the winter hours. But the letters themselves are going to be solid metal, so that the light doesn't shine through them, just so that all the DRC members know, because I had a fairly long back and forth with John about that, to make sure that it wasn't something that was going to be completely barred by the design view regulations. What color lighting is being displayed? Is the lighting white or green? The lighting would be in green. And would this lighting be there all the time? You're referring to like, is it under the daylight as well as after sun is set? I don't know the answer to that. My first impression was that it would just be when it's dark, not during the daylight. But would it be done all night? Is the intention to have it all throughout the evening? I mean, it could be. I'm thinking of a similar sign across the street, a positive pie. I don't know if there's none all the time. I think that it is. Well, it's not supposed to be. Those lights are supposed to turn off once the business is closed. So once business is shut down, lights are supposed to be turned off. That's some part of the regulations. So the backer for the lettering is the clear-frusted Lexen? I don't know. These are the details that I'm sure John will be able to easily answer. It's that's what's here in this application. Yes. And that's my understanding as well. I don't know what color is coming. The coloring is coming from the lighting, LED lighting itself rather than any background. Correct. That's my understanding as well. Is that coloring changeable or is that coloring fixed? I assumed that that coloring was fixed. I didn't have any intention of changing it. I was just wondering if it was going to be sort of a bright neon-ish green, or if it was a more subtle green that blended with the. It's not. It would be more subtle. It's not going to be bright neon green. That's not the look we're going for. Okay. Good. It was hard to tell from the from the mock-up. Do any committee members have any comments, questions or suggestions? Now, I have some problem if this is intended to be on all the time. As Meredith pointed out, I think that it would need to be shut off when the business is closed. If there's regulatory limits on the lighting, and so if the committee feels like we need to, we can make that clear as a condition of the permit, just so that it's right up front. I think that that would make me more comfortable. Okay. It would only be on during the dark and when the business is in business, or is open for business. I would also request, if possible, that a dimmer switch be placed on it so the level of lighting can be controlled. Again, if that's possible. Yeah. I mean, I would assume that in today's day that dimmable LEDs, yeah, I know dimmable LEDs, because we have them at our house. Yes, that's pretty common. Okay, so again, it sounds like the only conditions would be that the lighting would only be on when it's dark and when the business is open. And then again, the second suggestion would be that the light control be on a dimmable control, so that the light levels can be controlled as needed. Does that sound okay for the committee members? It does. Yes. Okay. And based on that, I can again, Hannah, did you have anything to add? No, nothing to add. Okay, then I can go through the criteria again for this project, for all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alteration shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building and other properties in the district. Additions shall be comparable, compatible with the size scale materials detailing an overall character of the primary building. Additions shall not obscure or undermine the essential form and character of the building. Those are acceptable. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of time, place, and use. Any changes, they create a false sense of historical development, such as adding conjectural features or architectural elements from old other buildings shall not be undertaken. New construction, alterations and additions shall be of their own time. That's acceptable. Signage. When removing a sign, an evidence of the sign's installation must be removed to the greatest extent practicable, which I'm assuming would be the case here with the original sign. So any penetrations into the facade that are holding the original built sign on would be patched before the new sign would be placed. Outdoor lighting fixtures, the structural design outdoor lighting fixture shall be compatible with the architectural design and function of the building and compatible with the neighborhood. With the conditions, that's acceptable. And then there is a specific set of criteria for signs. Size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and materials of exterior designs shall be compatible with the building and structures on the site and surrounding properties. Acceptable. Signing shall respect the original sign placement and sign bands and historic structures. Acceptable. If the building has multiple tenants, there'll be consistency in placement and size among all signs. Acceptable. It's recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries, or in this case it's centered over a window and with the columns. That's acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials on the building. Acceptable. Any fasteners, is the facade of that wood frame or is that any masonry? I think it's actual. It looks like it's metal to me. Okay. One criteria refers to mortar joints in masonry buildings, so that's not applicable here. Sign design, color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate. And that's acceptable. Sign support structures shall be compatible with the building architecture and must not be overly complex or dominant. That's acceptable. Lighting fixtures for signs on facades shall not conflict with or damage the building's architectural integrity. That's acceptable. Lighting fixtures for signs mounted on all building facades shall be designed with appropriate housing shielding, photometrics to ensure there is appropriate lighting levels and illumination that focuses on the sign panels exclusively. And again, that would be acceptable with a dimmer control. And again, based on the lighting being on during darkness and during business hours and a dimmer control, based on those two additions to the criteria, do I hear approval by the committee members by speaking your names? This is Martha. I approve with the conditions. Did you approve? Yes, Hannah approves. Okay. And Steve approves. So it's accepted. Applications accepted with the two conditions. And thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for your time tonight and thanks for bearing with our technical difficulties. I appreciate it. Thank you, Ray. Thank you for pursuing them. Thank you. You're welcome. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Have a good evening. You too. And I'm not sure if we have enough. Do we have enough members for the minutes? We do. Okay. Okay. I'll make a motion to accept the minutes as written. Okay. Do I hear a second? I will second that. Okay. All in favor of approving the minutes, speak your names. Is this Martha? I say yes. Hannah says yes. And Steve says yes. So the minutes are approved. Does anyone have any other business? Not for me. Nope. Nothing here. Okay. Then do I hear a motion to adjourn? I move that we adjourn. I'll second that. All in favor, speak your names. Martha, Hannah, and Steve. So the meeting is adjourned and we'll see you again on January the 4th. Yes. Merry Christmas to you both. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Happy Solstice. Happy Holidays. Happy Holidays. Thanks, everyone. Bye-bye. Take care.