 Hey everyone, I'm here with Savage Joy. You know her from Real Progressives And we are here to talk about the state of the 2020 Democratic Party primary. Thank you so much for being here Joy Thank you so much for having me. It's It's an honor. It's it's been a long time coming and for those of you who missed that I was actually on Joy's podcast a couple of months ago and I think she might be the sweetest person ever. I absolutely just I want to adopt her So I'm excited to have her on here But before we get to the substance, let me just plug Joy's GoFundMe because she's having medical issues and I really want to just put that out there If you have a couple of bucks to chip in to support her She's another one of those Americans who has insurance, but still has to fight with her insurance companies So if you can consider supporting that I'll also link to my niece's GoFundMe who has a baby in the NICU currently Just whatever we can do to support each other. So Joy, let me just kind of Get a sense of where your head's at in terms of 2020 with Bernie Sanders and everything that's happening Thus far. Do you feel confident in Bernie? Do you think it's going well so far because he's been in I think for about a month now And I know that because I officially had the first donation drawn from my account. I realized that I'm like It's been a month already. So What do you think about the state of the race, do you think he's doing okay? And is it what you expected in terms of the establishment kind of just dog piling on him? I I'm really proud of our campaign so far. I think we're doing a lot of things differently Last time, you know, we could have done some things differently and I think it's because you know Even Bernie himself has acknowledged he never expected, you know even close to how this all blew up He thought he was just gonna get in and kind of bring some progressive ideas to the table and Hopefully get Queen Hillary to kind of move a little left But it ended up blowing up where this time I feel like you really listened to us because he has a lot of people of color on his staff He has a lot of women on his staff He finally shared things about his personal life, which I knew could not have been easy but You know last time we would say, you know He would give speeches on Martin Luther King day and not even share that he marched with Martin Luther King like he was He was scared. He wouldn't look modest or or I'm not sure what it was But I'm like dude, you're like one of two people who can say that. Can you please like say it? Yeah, it's not bragging like it's oh my god. This is amazing You were able to do that. Um, I think a lot of him, uh, you know Feared the anti-semitic pushback sharing his family, you know dying in the Holocaust things like that Um, I have you know many screenshots saved of anti-semitism from Democrats Um, and and it's been just very eye-opening um with the the amount of anti-semitism that especially on twitter, um, so Usually, you know, I think maybe that stopped him as well Um, as far as the establishment and and the hillary supporters and kamala supporters I expected this. I mean, it's it's worse than last time because now he has a name And now they're even more threatened. Yeah, and I know it sounds like kind of cliche They're only picking on us because they're scared, but like seriously that is what it is I mean, they've been attacking in months before you even announced Oh, totally And what I really love is that and I don't know if you get the same sense too But I get the sense that they're really pushing for unilateral disarmament among the so-called bernie bros Because I think that during a primary one of the most important things you can do is comb through the records of the candidates Because that's how you get the sense of how progressive or centrist they are That's how you kind of determine where they stand But when you saw, uh, you know, for example in december david surrota released A piece about beto auroric where he just went through his record and stated facts that was portrayed As a bernie bro basically taking shots preemptively for bernie sanders and us being overly aggressive When we see the aggression all the time beth on twitter beth an alien I think she changed it currently beth standing on counters shout out to her, but she um screencaps a bunch of sexist tweets Sent to her. So it's not like, you know, this is something that's unique to bernie sanders I mean, we deal with it as well. The difference is just that we don't have the establishment reporting on it because That wouldn't really help their narrative. So talking about, you know 2020 and how different it is from 2016 I kind of wanted to get your take on this betto bernie dynamic because I Initially felt like this and I think maybe a lot of other people did too that kamala was Going to kind of be the person who bernie had to beat She was the one who had a lot of support from the donor base and the establishment and media But now it kind of seems like She's being sidelined for betto auroric and I Do you kind of feel like that? And I wanted to know who do you think is his biggest competition? In terms of the establishment like putting aside warren and tulsi and whatnot. Who do you think is his biggest establishment competitor? Well, you know, the interesting thing about kamala was, you know, we were all completely racist and sexist for going with bernie over her And I kept saying you watch as soon as beto announces all those people who called us racist and sexist Will drop it for a white man like in second. So that's exactly what happened um Do I think beto's a threat? In some ways because I think so many people do not take the time to research records They don't Um, which is why I'm so adamant, you know constantly posting them everywhere Unfortunately, a lot of them don't read it or they're apologists or well, this was last year. They've changed um Is which is what I heard all day about the creepy joe biden pictures and oh, yeah He said I posted a clip of him saying to hidey hidey camp or whatever her name is that Spread them, you know spread your legs because you're gonna get searched. Yeah Disgusting you have the clip of that because I just heard about it. I didn't see the clip. I put it on twitter Yeah, we're gonna have to um I'll actually I'll just insert it in because this will be post production So I'll just put that in so people can see it. I have not seen the clip Um, and when I read that I was basically mortified and I'm one of these people anyone who knows me personally They know that I am someone who is very adamant about wanting my space personally So when I sit here and I see like joe biden putting his hands On people creepily especially women it makes me cringe just personally because it's like dude That's creepy people don't like it and you can see that he doesn't like he's not very receptive to social cues because if somebody's going like this That's the indication that you need to back the fuck off and he doesn't get it But sorry go ahead. I didn't want to interrupt you. Oh, no I'm seeing the most apologists with him and and especially I personally fear biden the most I do Because I know it's very like oh fuck him. He's not gonna win Honestly, I could see I could see him winning the nom and there's no way in hell. He'll beat trump Um, that that's not gonna happen. He was the one I can guarantee like we're stuck with republicans if he's the nom There's just no way. Um But all of the apologies and people have like, you know, obama nostalgia Yeah, we met obama and for some reason like I don't know why but um for some reason People are like obsessed with joe biden memes. Like I feel like they unconsciously really think those memes are shit. He said Yeah, like the like the obama biden bro memes Yeah, and I don't I never found those like charming at all Like I don't I don't get that but yeah, I I can kind of see where you're coming from. Um I don't know who really is going to be bernie's biggest threat I'm kind of thinking beto only because it seems like the establishment is looking for that perfect anti bernie And ostensibly, you know, he is the anti bernie. He's the centrist with the grassroots support as far as we know Um, the thing about biden and I think you're right about this people view the past With rose colored glasses once you have those nostalgia goggles off I kind of think and this is all speculation We have no idea that he's gonna face plant and that's what a lot of people think as well But it's hard to say because I think that you're right because there are generally or genuinely rather Unlikable people that kind of go the distance. Ted Cruz was second in the republican primary How the hell did that happen? You know what? I mean someone who's just repulsive Hillary clinton someone who's pretty unlikable Went the distance so it's possible that someone unlikable like joe biden who is arguably less Unlikable than someone like Ted Cruz Could go the distance so it's really up in the air Um, but you know the thing that kind of makes me feel a little bit bad for kamala If I if we want to be sympathetic towards someone who is an establishment democrat with a horrible record Is that out of all the establishment candidates and I kind of want to get your take on this She's the one who I would have hoped went further than the other corporate democrats because she's the most tolerable And everyone else rubs me the wrong way So if I had to guess how it would play out, you know, it'd be a progressive and an establishment democrat going head to head in the end And obviously we want bernie to be the progressive but if I had to choose an establishment person it would have been kamala because She just first of all, I think she's the most politically savvy And she's the most malleable out of all the corporate democrats because she at least knows that if she is elected She would have to give progressives at least some policy concessions to get us elected To get reelected. Um, and I just feel like She wouldn't irritate me the most like I see beto talking. He's been in the race for like a week I already yes, I cannot fucking handle the hand things the standing on tables Is so disgusting get your disgusting feet off the tables Joe biden can't even do so out of all of them if I had to pick one Who I had to deal with the longest it'd be kamala here So it actually makes me feel a little bit bad for her that she's kind of being sidelined But I kind of wanted to know who's your Best of the worst I guess I I just I can't beto just I Uh, well first of all he's waving the hands as sexist as fuck because it was with bernie. So it better be with him Um, but he just everything he says and does is just so ridiculous like I may have sent you the picture. I'm not sure but his rally yesterday It was literally Entirely why like oh, I saw the picture with people's faces completely just bored. They looked I they looked so beyond miserable I couldn't like I felt so bad Like people were like zooming in and making memes like half the people were on their phone Half of them look like they were checking their watch. I mean and you know, he's beta himself put that photo up there Yeah, it wasn't something someone else took like that was beta and I'm like if you are the one who put that up I don't want to know what the other photos look like because that's pretty bad And then he films a video of himself getting gas asking for gas money And his wife is a billionaire oh Yeah, her dad is like, I don't know who her dad is but her dad is like extremely wealthy I've heard I've heard contradictory things about her dad that he's a billionaire Or he has like 500 million but either way If you have that much money Regardless, if you have more than one million, let's just let's just you know say that You don't need to be asking anyone for gas. That's kind of egregious. I think um, and I get that he wants to be like gas routes, but I'm sorry Pay for it yourself, dude. What are you doing? Exactly. Yeah, he's not sad. He's just not savvy with social media. Go ahead he um Yesterday, I think I sent you this video um a um Some I want to say maybe there were some of the climate kids um, but they went up to him with a Sheet of paper that says I agree not to take any fossil fuel of money During my campaign blah blah blah. He said no, I can't sign that And push it away tells you everything you need to know and when you look at open secrets He's what the he's on the top in terms of oil and gas recipients second Jesus christ after tech cruise Which is absolutely insane for a democrat, but I don't I don't know if that's packs. I don't know if that's individual contributions Um like from the past but either way the fact that he won't sign that pledge It tells me everything I need to know. He's not taking climate change seriously, which to me It doesn't make sense because if you have young kids Um, you think that that should be a priority if you really care about their future But to not take the no oil and gas money pledge. I just it drives me nuts Um, I hate it. So yeah, I'm already sick of veto. I think out of all of the candidates I'm the most sick of him so far Because he's so fake He really is kind of the hillary of this election in terms of I'm the social media mogul fellow kids And he had the dental cleaning thing. It's like who does this Yeah, I was born to be in it. Wow Yeah, no exactly It's not like, you know, you're running because you care about us You're running because you have a dream to be president like Howard Schultz. He talked about Don't let anyone tell you that your dream can't come true and that I can't become president This is my dream. It's not impractical but yet Medicare for all is impractical You know, these people are just They are irritating the shit out of me and we're just a couple of months in so I mean, I really should pace myself better But um, yeah, so In terms of the best of the worst for you Is it also better? Do we have agreement there because I kind of feel like a lot of people feel that way I think, you know, well when that video came out and also There was a a young woman who was a college student and that one came out two days ago um, this one the climate one was yesterday and the young College student two days ago came out Where he came to her college and she said I have two questions to ask She said first of all, what are your individual donations for the 6.1 million? and what is the How many individuals and what is the average donation and he said I'll I'll get that info and she said when and he said I'll I'll get it and then she said, when are you going to have any actual platform besides just a bunch of platitudes and like Uh, he just like walks across the stage Looks this way and like starts just fumbling miserably and gave nothing but like I feel like no dude Yeah, yeah, and let me just give a shout out to her her twitter handle is um, hey, hey, it's leslie j I believe Um, I've retweeted her so and I'm sure joy has to so if you go on our timeline You can find her. Um, she has the most journalistic skills out of anyone. I've ever seen Or at least seen in recent history And these are the types of questions that you've got to be asking the fact that it's so rare that we see this type of question It's honestly mind-boggling because you'd expect this level of pressure and really her kind of setting up the question Explaining it to people around her. That's what journalists should be doing. You know, you've got to educate people And we just don't see that so I feel like candidates would feel more pressure to release full platforms If they did actually get pressured by mainstream media journalists, but we just don't see that and Like when I think of better or work, I don't see the lane That he's carving for himself other than like centrist Bernie because like each candidate kind of brings something unique to the table with bernie I kind of see medicare for all this his main issue, but I mean he has a plethora of issues Um, and then you see like tulsi her lane is foreign policy with uh, andrew yang his lane is Ubi universal basic income. So each candidate kind of has their own thing that they're bringing Um, but with better or work when you think of him and you think of policies He doesn't stand for anything and the only thing we've been learning about is his medicare for everyone Which to be very clear it is not medicare for everyone it still allows people To maintain their private health insurance from their employer and the problem is that this is a centrist think tank proposed uh bill by I think it's center for american progress And what they're trying to do is play cave progressives yet near a tandem exactly They're trying to get us to stop complaining about medicare for all and they're trying to give us something But it's it's awful because People what they're trying to do is they're trying to use this line about oh well people like their insurance That is a mischaracterization. People don't give a shit about their health insurers. They care about keeping their doctors and That's the most important thing Um, so I wanted to kind of get your take um to kind of switch gears here Because you asked me when I was on your show who was my number two or who should bernie um Have as his running mate and I've thought long and hard about this and there has been times where I came to a conclusion And I'm like all right I'm set and then I wavered on that multiple times and it's to the point where I'm ready to just kind of throw my hands up and say I have no fucking idea. Um Do you have a sense of who you think he should choose and who is your number two in this race? um my number two would be talsy, um, of course because she's the You know Because she's the only one running who actually stood with bernie first of all. Um So she'd be my number two. Um as far as my vp choice. It has been from day one Miss nina That to me that is dream team. Yeah 100 can fire people up except those two. I mean that would oh my god um So and if talsy's you know secretary of state or or you know another position or whatever cool. That's fine. I would love that. Yeah Yeah, as far as talsy is vp Will I vote for it? Yes, um, am I excited about it? I mean she's worrying me with some of her things She refused to answer if she's a capitalist or socialist She said I don't like labels and they asked her again and she said yeah, like I said, I don't like labels That bothered me the next day. She was in a photo with andrew yang. I don't know why but it made me uneasy um It also concerns me because a lot of the pictures from her rallies are only half full There's a lot of pairs And how did she not hit the 65 thousand dollars yet? That's concerning because I mean it's been like Maybe two months. I mean it's been well over a month um, so That that concerns me. I also have the concern that she will take some votes away from burning I mean, yeah, I am worried about that too. Um, to be honest, um Although I as kind of the primary has progressed I do kind of feel like progressives are consolidating their votes around burning. So I'm I'm less worried about that now Um, but I tend to agree with you. I think that my number two is also tulsi um And I've kind of gone back and forth, but I like the And again, I'm gonna waver on this again but I think that just right now I'm feeling like burning tulsi will be a good ticket because if you get that combination of economic populism and A peaceful foreign policy plan. I think that would be great Bernie and elizabeth warren would be good. But the problem is I don't like the idea of taking two senators Who um, would otherwise be allies to a progressive agenda? out, um So that is kind of a hard pill to swallow also after seeing her waiver on medicare for all in a really explicit way well, I shouldn't say it's explicit because I think that if you're not savvy you can kind of See that she gave herself some plausible deniability But for you and I who have been in you know, the grind for medicare for all three years now It's clear she wouldn't support it. So it's like I don't know it's tough I I wanted to get your take on yang because I'm moving away from andrew yang more and more every single day And I really did like You know, um, this idea of universal basic income and I do like it. I still do like it But what I'm learning more and more is that there are a lot of libertarians Contradictory so that support this and it's because they support it in lieu of social safety net programs. So my goal Was to ask andrew yang, you know, is this supplementary because I mean, if you if you just do $1,000 universal basic income Well 30 years from now a thousand dollars isn't going to be meant The same it's not going to be as much, you know with inflation So if we do away with social safety net programs because republicans are going to make the case that we have ubi We could be in a worse situation and furthermore He has some really weird libertarian tendencies like an automatic sunset clause on laws So it's like well if you pass ubi, you're sunsetting your own accomplishment So I want to ask him about these things and he agreed to come on my show But he canceled and then I see on twitter that he's going on ben chip hero show Yes, and I'm like dude. What the fuck your base is progressive. It's not pepe's so So I'm moving away from him and I kind of feel like Everything is starting to crystallize as we get closer like I'm gravitating more. I mean towards tulsi But still remaining very firmly in the bernie camp, but I do think it's important for her To really state clear her positions on certain things. Um the green new deal being one of them Um, but I mean, you know, it's I think somebody said and I can't remember this might have been a video I watched from Maybe it was a rally from rebel hq with emma viglin who does great work um Somebody said had asked a bernie supporter Who's your number two or who's your top two candidates and they said bernie and bernie And I really that resonated with me so much because Yeah There's no there's no one like bernie except nina and the reason why I'm Disinclined from saying nina's my you know my firm number two is because I don't think that she would want it But the dream team ticket, you know, I'm gonna keep the hope alive as much as I can because seeing bernie and nina on a ticket It would honestly be just a dream come true. Um And that sounds corny as hell. I admit that but um, I would cry I would cry and I don't cry very often that would probably make me cry Because she would be amazing and you just know that just like politically to get things done She would be whipping up votes really well She'd be giving speeches that would bring people out to protest for policies Which is something that bernie sanders wants and I just think that there would be such a good duo. It'd be great um So, yeah, that's that's kind of It's hard to work this through and I I noticed that other political commentators like kyle kulinsky are kind of wavering back and forth to as between their number two be at elizabeth warren Or uh tulsi gabbert because it's tough. There's nobody who's close to bernie in terms of that record Which is really really important and it's kind of it's almost unfair Because how often does a candidate come along that has like A 50 year record of just being on the right side of history. That's hard to compete against It's it's so tough. You know what? I mean, so it's almost unfair for them to even be in the same Uh comparisons because bernie really has been just you know, he's been in the um In the fight forever. So, yeah, um I don't know. I know that you wanted to also talk about some of these mirrors from the establishment Um, oh you wanted to know what I think of yang. Oh, yeah. Yeah Um, I had douche on for the fourth time last night. I love him Um, and we were talking about Yang and you know, I posted I kept shit to myself for like a while and then yesterday I posted some of the screenshots. I've gotten from yang supporters on my bernie post Antisemitic racist um Memes with guns pointing at you like straightforward. Um You know, uh Like one of them is like, um, we're we're just giving you Back the money the jews stole from you Things like this and I found an article where yang says and I can send you all this too. Um Where he says They asked him about his alt-right following richard spencer. Yeah huge supporter Um and a bunch of a bunch of trump supporters have gone to yang. Yeah, I've noticed that too Yeah, they asked him about it and he said it's so funny to me. I really wish I could just jump up and down and laugh What does that mean? That's it's actually alarming Well contrast that with tulsi when david duke said something about her nice Like he likes her. I don't know what he said, but she immediately it was like No, I condemn you. You're a racist. Your white supremacy is disgusting. I'm american symbol So, I mean contrast that with richard spencer coming and it's not like Automatically. Oh, well this right wing person endorsed you. They could have nefarious motivations for that So it doesn't automatically make them bad. It's just how they respond yang is kind of just Um, I don't want to say encouraging it. I'm not sure what the right word is but he's joking about it Which is pretty gross and yeah, so I posted. Um, it seems like it's always the ones who's put yang gang Hashtag. Yeah, um, they're doing it. Um, and I shouldn't say all it's just the ones I've encountered So I put on on yang's post yesterday. He he tweeted Um, I think yang gang 2020 would be a great movie or something and I I put, you know unfortunately a lot of the people that use that hashtag are extremely ugly and come on our burning pages and Put, um memes of him being decapitated I have a meme someone put on my page of bernie's head Like a dude holding his head with andrew's face on it. That's so fucked up Yeah, like it's psycho And you know, I'm just getting attacked. We want white separate. We don't want, you know integration We need to take back our money that people are taking from us things like that. It's actually They're reaffirming what I'm saying in those comments. Like it's really ugly. It's gross and Andrew's policy on his website has some really, um Trump-like things on it that are just there's a lot of really weird policies Yeah, like no circumcision, which is just freaking weird. Well, I give I that with that one. I'm fine with the choice But don't like Why is he like so obsessed with everyone? You know, like everyone else is like it's just bizarre Um, but the one that sticks out to me the most and I can't think of how it's working exactly But it's immigration and some of his stuff on it is very disturbing And the way he says it at the top is You want, um, you want to stay here work for it exclamation point and I'm like Wow, that's a really fucked up way to word that. Yeah So yeah, he has over 70 Ideas on his platform You've never been in politics a day in your life You're not gonna get 70 things accomplished. Can we just narrow it down? I mean when trump announced Millions of people were like i'm not voting for a rich businessman who's never had any political experience, but yang 2020 Well, which is it? Yeah. Yeah, I know and I'm with you there. Um, I forgot what I was gonna say Um, oh, I wanted to ask you about a particular tweet that he put out And it was so vague and it could be interpreted in you know, a really insignificant banal way or it could be harmful He said something about Americans are becoming the underdogs on their own land And so I quote tweeted that and I asked what do you mean by this because it really could be something that's innocent Or it could be something that is very nefarious So you can't just put these types of things out there and not clarify Especially if you're somehow cultivating this right wing following, which is weird, which is one of the reasons why I don't like People who come from the business world I want you to have a career in politics You know, I want you to have a record that I can look to because that's really the only way that you can gauge what type of President or politician they'd be if you come from the business world. That's really different Especially the private sector, you know, it's someone like for me. I'm a democratic socialist and not a social democrat Like I'm anti capitalist. Um I don't I don't find that valuable, you know to come from that world. So I mean look I will say this. I like the idea of universal basic income and I do support it But I think now is the time for him to clarify Does this mean universal basic income exclusively into his credit? He does support medicare for all So not, you know, doing away with all social safety net programs But the reason why this idea of ubi is catching on with a lot of libertarians is because they think that that's a way to Do away with the other social safety net programs, which I am a hundred percent against Um, right because it would be worse off, you know $1,000 a month sounds great if you just want to like game and like, you know, just go out to dinner You know and have that a little bit of cushion, but it's not an end all be all You know what I mean? Like we need winning more So, yeah, um, I'm glad that you're kind of on the same page there because I'm getting more and more irritated with him as the election goes on because um, you know, he has some good ideas so Talk about policy. Don't be the meme president. Um, you know, and it's fine if you want a shitpost. That's fine but like, I don't know it's just I don't know. He's just he's just irritating me and it's been a couple months since so by the time we're like a year in I'm gonna be like fuck andrew yang, but no, I know his supporters will come after me, but that's cool Um, well his he came out the other day and said he insists on four million per year If he is president, so you're talking 16 million dollars. That's what he wants That's what he's that's so weird Why are you even thinking about that you weirdo? but yeah Also what you said, you know when you look at studies in like finland and things where they did try ubi They did take other programs away and I feel like for us. It's like cool. We already have an income So yeah, thousand dollars a month brand. That's awesome. But you're getting you know If you're getting a thousand dollars on disability and you have food stamps and stuff on and um, you know social security on top of it things like that will buy You just lost. Yeah Yeah scary because a lot of people who are disabled and elderly are already living in poverty So you take 12,000 dollars and you're like, yes 12,000 free dollars But that's a very privileged way For us to be excited about it when there are people who are just going to be destitute If yeah, yeah, and if we're going to talk about the idea of ubi We now really do have to clarify Um, is this ubi and that's it or is this something that will supplement other programs? Because if it's the former I don't support that at all You know and and to people who will get pissed because whenever I criticize candidates There's always people who will at me on twitter and be like mike you attacked this person Um, I have been critical of every single candidate. Um, and that includes bernie sanders because you know, unlike other people Yeah, we're not a cult of personality We can be objective and say look you've got to improve and if you truly do support someone like andrew yang Or even bernie you can't just pretend like they're perfect because no candidate is perfect. So by bringing up these criticisms You increase the odds that they will listen and then improve So like I was accused of attacking bernie sanders Or somebody said I keep attacking him on the issue of reparations But it's not like i'm attacking him the reason why I feel the need to vocalize whatever criticisms I have with bernie is because he's like the one or two politicians that do listen, you know what? I mean, so I think that people need to be less closed-minded and stop being so Um, I guess tribalistic whenever they hear their team being attacked and whatnot because we can't be like Santeress neoliberals who are just playing team politics or republicans We can't like we've got to practice what we preach, you know in a way. Um, so yeah Yeah Well, everybody anybody who watches our shows know that we love us some bernie. So if we criticize him It's in a healthy way. It's not saying Bernie like no, it's not if we criticize him It's because it's tough love look dude. You're pissing us off Sometimes I want to grab his shoulders and shake him But I love him You know what it is. It's like if you told me Hey, mike, you've got a booger on your nose Clean your nose I would be like, thank you I'm not going to be like, oh you attacked me because you just helped me, you know what I mean? Like that's the way that I view it and the way that we should view it probably not the best analogy But you know, you know, I think people get the point um Because yeah, and and like it was the same with tulsi people said that oh well You're attacking tulsi when I released a video that um, I was critical of her They're saying, you know, you were attacking tulsi because you just want to help bernie But I had to explain No, no, no, I'm not about breaking down progressives. I'm about building them up because there's a very good possibility that in the event Bernie or tulsi win the nomination Um, they're gonna team up, you know, that could be a duo. So we need to make sure that they improve We don't know, you know what I mean? And it's the same with elizabeth ward. She has Basically pissed me off to no extent. Um, I'm trying not to be overly critical because she does have a good record But at the same time, you know, it it is frustrating, you know to see her kind of capitulate on a lot of issues So, yeah Long story short on this issue to wrap up the the um discussion about andrew yang um, don't Recoil at the sound of criticism just kind of embrace it and try to get your candidate to improve if you really do like You know, andrew yang for me personally. He is going down in my book lately and I'm not the only progressive. Um, No Yeah, it's a lot of people who are seeing his posts about White deaths and how white deaths are Increasing too much. He had a tweet that said white Twice in it. So I'm kind of like what is Yeah, it's just you have to at this time Um, I really think people have to be careful with their words. Um, yeah, especially so donald trump is president Don't leave anything out for debate. You know, you have to clarify your stance because I think that Um We're in this political climate that's so incredibly toxic that people will weaponize anything and use it So he you know, if you are not meaning that in any nefarious way If you're not trying to pander to like alt right fuck heads, then just clarify It's as simple as that and he hasn't so he's gone down in my book pretty substantially Um, I wanted to get your take on booty judge because he's someone who I initially was a little bit surprised by but um After hearing his answer on medicare for all Um at the cnn town hall totally dismissed him Um, and I wanted to know because people seem to disagree with that take and it was received really well So what is your take on that? You know, this is very interesting. I can't I of course I love the fact that he's lgbtq, but I do not do identity politics. Oh, totally That would be like a an added bonus Yeah, 100 i agree with you. Yeah So but as far as he goes, I don't know if you knew this but people are telling me He was actually a bernie volunteer like bernie valent. Um You know big bernie supporter wrote a paper on him in college. I heard that That like that's kind of cool. I mean But I'm with you as far as the medicare for all thing. I was like, yeah, I don't know if you're taking this far enough Yeah, I Yeah you okay, I and I really am trying to be hypersensitive to all of these bullshit buzzwords because it's hard to keep up They're creating new buzzwords. So if you notice They know that we want medicare for all So what are these centrists proposing? Beto auroric proposed medicare for everyone Pete booty judge proposed medicare for everyone who wants it. It's like, okay Shut the fuck up. Tell me medicare for all. Just make that be your answer And you know one thing one point that I made on um the elizabeth warrentown hall video I did is that we're at this stage now to where if a candidate truly supports medicare for all They're educating people about this policy before they implement it like bernie sanders You know, he answered a question about people keeping their insurance if they have employees He says look, you're gonna keep your doctor. That's really what people care about But the difference will be you get a medicare card now instead of a blue cross blue shield now What that tells me is bernie sanders will fight for medicare for all because he's setting up He's setting the stage for it to be implemented because he's educating people But if you're talking about oh, well, we have to do this. There are many paths to medicare for all You're not gonna implement it. I just think that it's it's evident to me, you know and a lot of people They think that progressives are being overly aggressive in calling this out and that we're just looking for any and everything To attack someone who's not named bernie, but you really have to understand that politicians use Doublespeak Pretty much constantly and if you don't try to decipher what they really mean Then I feel like you're setting yourself up for another obama where you vote enthusiastically for someone and then you get disappointed I don't know how you feel about that if you were an obama Supporter or not back in the day. I voted for him twice, but I'll tell you it me too It a lot of people, you know, I we were duped, you know, 100 I but that was when I was a lot less politically educated as well Um, so, you know, bernie woke me up, you know in so many ways But yeah, I mean warren I I would really have to hold my nose to vote For her if she was bernie's vp I I absolutely cannot Her like I can't you know that I cannot stand her and it cracks me up See that, you know, I just oh god um But yeah, I mean It's gonna be a real clusterfuck, but also don't you get that people? Like a lot of my viewers My newer viewers they're like Well, what if someone says the the nominee they do the what about ism and we cannot fall into that because it's so dangerous So do you get those like you say never biden, but what if he's the nominee? Do you want to trump? Yeah, um, I haven't gotten that yet, but I'm sure that it will come like as the primary heats up and gets more uglier But it's like I think I wish people would understand that during a primary Things can get ugly. Um, I mean look at the republican primary in 2016 Donald trump trashed everyone and they trashed him in return and he won So things can get ugly in a primary people need to stop freaking out about that But really I kind of find this whole Don't attack progressive or don't attack democrats thing disingenuous I think it's just kind of a way to get us to shut up And you know, because we have a really strong I think the strongest case ever to be made for bernie Among the left so they have to figure out a reason some way to get us to be quiet And that's kind of the way that I view it. So I just I don't buy um This idea that oh well, you know, what about this? What about that? I I'm just not I'm not down for that yet. Let's let's let's fight right now And then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, you know what I mean like either way Whoever wins the nomination They can't do what hillary clinton did last time They've got to make sure that they secure the left But what she did was she never secured the left and then she tried to win over centrists and moderate republicans And that didn't go very well. So People need to understand that the left will not be placated. We've waited so long We thought obama was the person who would implement, you know Substantial change and we didn't get that so it's getting longer and longer overdue And we're not going to take no for an answer and the new left isn't going to go away And I just I don't think that they've grappled with that fact yet Like they don't see all of the signs like aoc is a sign, you know And what happened with her winning there's signs that There's a new left rising and a new status quo that will take over one day It's just a matter of how fast there's no question about whether or not it will happen Because it what it will happen, you know So yeah, I Go ahead On aoc, you know, I've interviewed her in the past and I see a lot of change in her Like since you've interviewed her Yeah, and I'm not necessarily in a good way. Um, I still support her. I still love her but Um, do you really think she's gonna endorse bernie? Um, I don't know. I think that if she does it will be before new york Um, I hope she does But I basically Have set my expectations so low after 2016 that I Was not expecting anyone to endorse bernie including rokhana, but he did So my expectations are so low. I am planning for Complete actually I'm not planning for disappointment because they're low. So I'm like I'm planning for my expectations to be met But I think that it's likely she will endorse bernie sanders if I if I had to guess Um, and I'm not writing this down Don't quote me later because I am terrible at predictions if I had to guess though I say she probably will but it won't be until it's like the new york primary Um, but I kind of I do notice what you're talking about and I think that a lot of other people feel the same way and the way that I view this is um She is trying to Minimize attacks I guess and I'm trying to be empathetic because I do know that she's basically the target for the right wing So maybe she doesn't want to piss off Democrats too and the establishment anymore because then she has more people against her I don't know but I I do agree with you. Um, I think that her response to ilhan was disappointing I do think that her um response to venezuela is disappointing But I think that she's gotten in um She's learned a little bit after I think it was the interview she did with pbs about um israel palestine where she said I'm not an expert You know after that, I think she became a little bit more reluctant to speak out on foreign policy um And people are pissed off within the establishment that she's still working with justice democrats Which is why maybe she doesn't want to be you know Perceived as being too overly in one camp. But yeah, I do see what you're talking about and I've kind of I've tempered my expectations about politicians and I've just tried to set the bar of Do they still support the policies that I want and if they do then I'm okay with that? Um, but I do see where you're coming from and where others are coming from You know, I know progressive voice said something on twitter that oh, this is whack when she Was excited about hillary responding or something like that and I you know, I've been kind of seeing that You know, I try to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening. But yeah, I I do I tend to agree with you there Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I'm I'm nervous. But as far as rogos, I've interviewed him three times So and the every single time I've interviewed him He has said run bernie run and this goes back to 2017. I mean, so I knew he was hyping I knew he was going to endorse him. Well, when I saw he was a chair. I was like Flipping I was so happy because he is one of the people that I stand by he is one of the very few That I I adore. He has been so kind and so amazing Um, and he actually asked me to come on my show last time, which was just awesome Yeah, so he's he's down with grass roots. He's down with People who are you know, just activists with a camera just trying to make a change Yeah, and that's what I love about him and there's to her credit. Tulsi is also the same way like she hasn't come on my show yet But I've I've you know talked to her and she's like, yeah, I'd love to come down Or come on your show, you know, um, it's just her staff that is um ghosting me right now So we'll talk about that later. But um, yeah I'm right there with you Yeah, it's like, okay. Come on. Um, but anyways, so it is it's been about 50 minutes before we go Can you please tell everyone where we can find your show? Um, how we can support the show patreon and whatnot Sure, absolutely first. Thank you so much for having me online. Thank you for coming on I want to say really quick that mic is like The the show the independent media I watched religiously through, you know, bernie's campaign and everything He is the reason I was inspired to start savage joy. So this is not bad. No No, when I say this is an honor like I'm not bullshitting you like I my knees are shaking Oh, thank you. You're so sweet Um, but um, if you guys want to check out my show, it's savage joy on real progressives Um, I have about 300 episodes on youtube on real progressives that you can follow Twitter is savage joy marie one Um, and yeah, our facebook is where we get a lot of traffic. We have like 122 000 followers on the The facebook page. That's where our videos tend to premiere Um, so yeah, check us out. We have a lot of good Topics that we touch on it's not just all bernie Yeah, really and in-depth conversations and yeah, I I love the um real progressives and her show So please check it out and thank you so much for coming on joy. It's been so much fun I'm always down to shoot the shit with you. Um, it's a blast. So thank you so much Mike is a total loser. So don't hit the subscribe button, okay? And whatever you do folks do not hit the notification bell either Mike treats me so unfairly