 Can I say that? Yeah, you can say that. Bonapasqua. What's that mean? It means Happy Easter in Italian. Jasmine's here. So we have two special guests, the one and only Surya and the one and only Jasmine. I'm not special. I'm just here now. Surya's recovering from Olivia Rodrigo. Is that how you say her name? Okay, I guess we'll start off with Surya then. We'll get to Jasmine in a second. I feel like Jasmine hasn't been around for a while. Yeah. We'll get to Jasmine in a second. How was your week and how was Olivia? Olivia or Rodrigo was fantastic as always. I went to go see her in concert about two years ago. My voice is still kind of shot. And I saw her on Friday at Scotiabank and it was absolutely incredible. It was so empowering. And yeah, I guess some people can say her music is repetitive or whatever, but there's such a deeper message behind it. And it's not only with relationships, it's like with everything in life. So I'm sure you guys know of her. If you don't know of her, go check out her songs. They're amazing. It's a good song, ABCDE. Yeah, that's me. Not Olivia! Driver's license was one of my favorite songs ever created. You know what's funny? I got the notification that I was in the first like 3% of listeners of driver's license. Can you believe that or 10% or something? Cause it came out on TikTok one time and I just looked it up like, what is this? Were you going through a tough time? I have been going through a very tough time. Is that a problem? Oh my God. Wait, are we in the joke? Yeah, there's several jokes I've wanted to make about our friend group. Jasmine, how are you? I'm glad to be back. I know it's been a while. Jasmine? I don't know if... Oh, you go, you go. I don't really know where to start on that. Well, you've been around. So Jasmine and I have known each other for a really long time. We were actually the first people to collaborate with each other, I believe. Yeah, way back in like super early 2018. I think we might have met online like late 2017 or super early 2018. And we were both kind of snooping around the construction situation, doing what we're doing now, but back then. And we even like did a couple of videos together and stuff way back then. And since then I've moved. So I'm not in the Toronto area anymore. I'm in Florida now. And that's a long story in itself. But yeah, some of you guys may recognize me from past podcasts. I've been on a few times, like several months back and I am back again. Oh, I don't even know. I don't know where to start. Okay, so I will, I can't say too much, but I guess like I have to be a little careful with what I say now about Project 2025 a little bit more than, yeah. So I can't go into details, but I have to be a little more cautious about how I talk about things and what kind of videos and pictures I share. So, I don't know, go watch previous videos. We have a lot to talk about. First of all, Jasmine hasn't given a single opinion to you guys about her thoughts on this whole project. Surya's given very minimal, right? You've been on one podcast. Surya's got a lot of opinion. Surya's actually helped me out a lot behind the scenes. I'll send him like a photo. I'm like, Surya, what does this mean? And he's like, Brendan, it's a tree branch. And then Kregas Krega. I still think there's gonna be a whole shop in the mountain and that's what I'm on. Nobody's changing that for me. Are they selling vapes in the mountain? That'd be awesome. I don't vape. Vaping's bad for you. I don't condone vaping. You actually have quit. Do you want to talk about that? No, it's vape. No. No? I stopped vaping. I don't know when. I didn't even count the days because I don't want to make some bullshit excuse. No, that's a success story. Some excuse about, you know, I stopped for this amount of time and then started again. Nope, I have no clue when I stopped. I haven't been vaping for a little while now. I changed to these little nicotine pouches that you put in your mouth. We don't condone that here. No, I'm kidding. But two of those or three of those a day is much better than having my vape in my hand. Literally 24 seven. Well, you have like ADHD too, right? 24 seven, always in my hand. Or if you watch any other stream from what, the last, well, we haven't done a stream in a while, but the last stream I would leave every half an hour where was I going? I was going to vape in the corner. So. Well, that's progress then. Geez, we're working at it. Geez. Everybody's road to quitting looks different. So I guess let's go one by one and describe, let's start with what you think it'll be. Your top three selections for what you think this coaster is gonna be. What we think or what we want. What you think, think, not one. Let's start with Jasmine. Let's do it in this order always. I'll be last always. For reference, Jasmine. Jasmine, you're first. Jasmine's number one. For us. Okay, so my thoughts of this have evolved over time. I fully like when the speculation on this first started like ages ago, I definitely was thinking, oh, we're just gonna get another B&M, especially because of those images that the park put out when they were doing the surveys on like, oh, would you guys like this mountain coaster or this other thing? I thought we were just gonna get another like, you know, B&M of some kind. But since then, I wanna say I'm on the same page as Brendan when it comes to like the manufacturer options. I think it's definitely obviously gonna be launched. We pretty much know that at this point. But I think we very well could be looking at, oh, what was the one that we threw in the other day that threw everyone for a loop? Was it Premier? Premier's the new, the new guy. That actually I have been leaning towards since that little tidbit came out and I know it's gonna make a lot of people mad. But as somebody who's currently in Florida and is a massive fan of Revenge of the Mummy, it gives me hope that we could get a good Premier coaster because there are some really good ones out there. And I do think obviously it's gonna go through the mountain. And again, leaning, if it's gonna be Premier, I am leaning towards that sort of like half dark ride, half poster experience. Well, maybe not half and half because let's be honest, we only have so much space in the mountain. But I do think we're gonna have a little dark ride moment in the mountain and then it's gonna launch out of the mountain and be mostly outdoors. If not Premier, then I obviously am hoping for Zamperilla. Yeah. And then I guess BNM is like a very far third behind because I just don't think that's very likely anymore given the changes that we've seen. But yeah, I'm really hoping for my biggest things that I'm hoping for like at least a small dark ride element, a little like stop and sort of showpiece moment in the mountain, not just like shooting straight through the mountain and not like really utilizing that. And I just want it to be more thrilled than family, but I think it probably will be more likely on the like family thrill side of things. That's where I'm at currently, but it changes often. So ask me again another day. Today's bombshell was a bombshell. Like we won't go into details, but today's bombshell was a bombshell. It was like, it was like STFU. We won't go into detail, we'll mention it like 10 times. Surya. Okay, so yeah, obviously like Jasmine said, my opinion or all of our opinions have been like, you know, literally changing day by day. I still think Zamperla is a possibility just based off of what they said at winter chill out about how, you know, the LSMs and the ride perform flawlessly in most weather conditions, especially in winter time. And that's definitely something that, you know, I think needs to be taken into account, especially out of park like Wonderland and maybe even for winter fest. So I think Zamperla is in. I think Vakoma is also a player because King's Island's getting that family soapbox coast or whatever it's called. The family boomerang and Vakoma has been doing more stuff in North America and a lot of their newer products like in Europe look actually really cool in my opinion. So I think Vakoma is an option. And I guess for the mountain, I guess Premier just based off of like, I don't know, I guess Premier. We already have a Premier attraction ride. So, I mean, you know, so it's not like, like, you know, Cedar fairs worked with Premier in the past before. And if you look at like the flight of fears, even though they're going on 30 years old, they're still used to being built indoors and confined spaces and they can do a lot of the type maneuverings that like a B&M can't, which might be something that they want to look into. Now, if it has nothing to do with the mountain for 2025, but it's still like another part of the park or something, I would say, I would say a B&M wind coaster. I am holding out for a B&M wind coaster going over front gate. Craig, Brandon's having a malfunction. Yeah, okay, first of all. Can't handle it. Don't, don't, don't, I need to recover. Go, go, please go. Seriously. Well, I'm for sure about to get laughed at, but I'm still on team. This place is underneath the car. Yeah, sure, that's what we'll call it. Thank you. I'm on team invert still. Nobody's taking me off that team until there is a piece of track on site that tells me otherwise. And on top of that, we are going to be walking into the mountain and we are going to be seeing a market in the mountain. Otherwise, who makes inverts? B&M makes an invert. Okay, but I, I support you on that. I think I'm the only one. I still think that could be possible. How awesome would it be to market it as coming to the mountain after 45 years? Like that'd be amazing. But I'm about to derail your theory. No, yeah, I am. So there's been a really solid rumor that's coming. I should be making a video before this, but Time Warp and Flight Deck are apparently actually on their way out in the next two years. That's fine. I don't care. To me, that screams, they have an invert flyer or wing on the way over there. Invert, we're getting an invert. I'm telling you, until there's a piece of track that tells me otherwise, it's an invert. And we are going to be walking in the mountain to a restaurant slash food stand slash something sometime soon. I really think though that you're, you have some footing to stand on with the idea of the like market or some kind of walkable something in there, at least even a small portion of it. And I'm sticking to this with you because there's always an exit through the gift shop moment, especially with like highly themed rides. And look at the parks that they supposedly went to look at when considering what next attractions they're adding, right? All of those parks, you always exit through the gift shop. And so the thing that makes most sense in my mind is to exit through a really impressively themed gift shop in the mountain. And it might not be big. It might just be like kind of like on your way out. But I think it's possible. I do think that visit to Universal had a bigger reasoning behind it than Velosa Coaster. I think there's a whole vision. Mine is the 1% of enthusiasts that actually visit this park. I'm telling you, you can ask probably anybody at random and they will say, yes, they'd like to go into the mountain to buy a drink or a food item or even be able to sit in there and eat. But why would we want to go into the mountain to buy a drink? Okay, you know what, save your thought because I drew out a really detailed map. Oh my God, I haven't even gone into it. Oh my God, we haven't even started the podcast yet. Yeah, we literally haven't started. Oh my, what are we even talking about? Do, well, let's start it. Okay. Well good, you see it every two seconds. Project Alpin. Okay. That's a detailed map. This was, I actually put a lot of effort into this. I said nice. Okay, okay. What's the problem? You can't take a compliment. Oh my Lord. Okay, so this is a really detailed map of everything I know so far. So I literally, for anyone out there who's like, Brennan doesn't share his information. It's all right there on the screen for you. So I want you guys to pay attention to this electrical work going on. And in fact, I think Surya would be the best person to talk about this because Surya's actually been my biggest help with this electrical kind of like understanding what could be happening here. Obviously, there's multiple scenarios that could play out. For sure. But why don't you describe what you think is going on? Like you have the old powerhouse. Are you freezing? I'm freezing. There you go. Thank you. Thank you. There's a fan under the table. My God. Relax ladies. All right. Okay, so what am I doing? Okay, describing what is going on with the electrical work. So obviously if you've been watching the construction updates, they've been working on a trench for what? Like a week, week and a half laying down conduit and other types of laying down conduit, laying down electrical lines. And if it was like one or two of that kind of gauge, then you would assume, okay, maybe that's for a small building like a food stand or anything, but all the existing structures in that area are already hooked up to some type of a grid, right? Like Alpine cheesery that uses mostly gas for the appliances. That's already hooked up to water and electrical. So that's not necessary. And the lines are clearly going towards the mountain, towards that new, the new access area, right? So I think, and obviously this is probably, this could very well be a stretch, but if you look at a ride, like anything that uses LSMs like Maverick, Pantheon and anything with a launch, they have a lot of multiple electrical lines feeding those LSMs, feeding the magnets, right? Because it takes a lot of power and it's very well possible that there already is preexisting infrastructure in the mountain that can do some of it. But if you have a longer launch, like let's say a Maverick size launch, that brings you up to 120 kilometers an hour or anything like that or multiple launches, you're gonna need more electricity and you're gonna need power, right? And that's not gonna come in the form as one giant conduit, one giant cable. That's gonna come in the form as multiple lines because you have to feed those to multiple stator motors, in my opinion. Yeah. So they literally are building a power station it looks like. Like it's almost like if you were to look at it, there's a clear, almost like power station forming. Now with that in mind, do you think the station's in the mountain or do you think it's on extreme skyflars plot land? If this is project 2025? Probably in the mountain. And just that power station though, that just, those are pretty much like DC transformers so they take the dial down current that comes in from the grid or whatever, then they amplify it, turn it into DC current, then they send it off through the lines. In fact, it probably could even go to capacitor banks then so they can store it before they actually launch it. Like if you have like 20 capacitors inside the mountain somewhere, each capacitor is gonna need its own individual line and then you store it and then you release all that energy at once to launch whatever you're launching. And that specific power source for those of you who don't know, powered a powered coaster that requires a lot of power. Thunderrun, that was Thunderrun's old station. How do you pronounce it? Jasmine, this is your forte. Underrun? Yeah, how did you pronounce the old one? Oh, our correction wagon? No, is that it? Blower. Oh, Blower Enziant. Yeah. Blower Enziant. I don't know if I'm saying that. What is that? You didn't know that? No, that's the original name of Thunderrun. That one. I don't know why a correction wagon came to mind, but I guess they're all similar. How is it pronounced? But Blower Enziant. And then I could be saying that wrong. Someone correct me if I am, but that's how I've always said it. Blower Enziant. No, what was the theme to? A train. It was a train. Wasn't it a train? Wasn't there a mountain? It was literally just a figure eight coaster. It was smaller than the current Thunderrun. A fake mountain thing built around it? I don't think so. No, no, no. That's so cool. I've never heard of that, hasn't it? No. Great Wheel of China was legendary. Great Wheel of China back. Like a rocky kind of background. Oh, you're talking about the, where was Baron's Curve? Clockwork. It was honestly kind of just on a concrete pad. Like it wasn't very well-themed. I agree. I'm shocked. That is a rare moment. Someone clipped that and posted it. I genuinely didn't know that was the original name of Thunderrun. I thought it was always Thunderrun. Maybe do like a screen share. What? I'm gonna, I pulled up a picture of it, but I don't know how I could show it to you guys. But yes, it was just basically a figure eight. I believe they actually expanded the layout when they moved it into the mountain a little bit. And it was just on a concrete pad with like a fence around it. I didn't know that. Yeah, no. I lost my train of thought there for a second. So you have that. They've moved the Coca-Cola refresh station. Tiny Tom's is getting a much bigger building. Good. And we have shipping and receiving and maintenance tunnel marked on this map. Thunderrun's exit has been permanently redirected or we assume permanently, a lot of work to go into just redirect it for one season. They did a beautiful job. I got to see a little sneak peek. So with all this movement, there's talk that Elpin has nothing to do with 2025. There's talk out there. There's the possibility. Do you ever see Cedar Fair cutting a hole into the mountain? I have a really counter argument to it. People are thinking I'm making an argument that the coaster comes over here, but I have a really good counter argument as to why maybe it doesn't. But I want to ask you guys, do you think that with all this movement and work, the coaster doesn't come over here? Yeah, I guess Jasmine go. There's a possibility. I'm like, I want to say, I'm not quite 50-50. I'm maybe like 30-70 with the 70% that it is related to the coaster and 30% that it could not be related to the coaster because it could either be a full re-theme of that area because we know that Cedar Fair likes to revamp an area when they're doing a new addition. So it could be related to just sort of bringing new life to that area. Maybe some of those buildings needed work and it was just better for them to take them down and do something totally different anyways. Or it could be maybe to do with another future attraction coming. Like sometimes it's about what's best for the budget. If they're bringing in a crew to do a certain type of work or demolition, sometimes it's better to just bundle things together and do certain things all at once even though that may not be relevant until a little farther down the road. I don't know, there's a lot of different things that could go into it. I feel like just because we're seeing all this construction related to this attraction happening right now that it is most likely related to it but there is that 30% in my mind that's like it could be something else. It could be re-themed, could be for the future. We don't know. And it's the same thing with Skyflyer. I'm like, I'm a little less confident that that's related because it's so much farther away but that too could go either way. Like they could be planning for the future and it just budget-wise made more sense to do certain things now at the same time as all this other work. Or it could be that this thing is gonna be massive and span across like three different areas. We don't know. What are your thoughts? I have a really good counter-argument. No, I'm gonna get, I very well could be for inside the mountain, like if they wanted to do something like Dark Coaster at Bush Gardens, Williamsburg for winter fest purposes or something or Zamperla or whatever we said. But a big part of me thinks it actually is gonna go at extreme Skyflyer's plot of land for a major roller coaster. I don't know, I think based off of the mess it, based off of something, I feel like this might be Canada's Wonderland's biggest project. There's a lot of, I've never seen the level of secrecy and protection over Jasmine's, Jasmine's holding it in a laugh. I've never seen the level of like, yeah, like STF, like shut the, shut the, something seems weird about this project that's actually making me be like, ooh, maybe this isn't like, this is either like the biggest investment ever or the biggest family coaster investment ever. I don't know, each day I'm starting to think a wind coaster is more and more plausible again, starting at extreme's plot of land. Look at Jake's thinking that we don't know that the microphone is in the camera. Jake, it's, we weren't very smart in setting up Jasmine into the stream. This is the last minute we're smart. This is our communication with Jasmine. It works. That's my mic. Yeah, what do you think? What was even the question you guys have been talking about? Do you think the coaster's coming into Alpen? The adults are talking. What do you mean? It's supposed to come here. What are you talking about? Do I think it's supposed to come here? And we're supposed to get a market in the mountain. Okay. So the coaster's gonna be built on stilts over Alpen? It's gonna be, yes. Oh my God. Where's Jake when I need him for real? To quote Brendan. A ride manufacturer will do whatever they need to build a ride anywhere. And we got yelled at. If you ask Jake, like Brendan was mad this one time because we were actually like, he just makes things up and then goes along with it. And then if we disagree with it, he gets mad. I wouldn't say that. I would say no. You were arguing. So the argument was that no, that Wonderland wouldn't build a coaster because there's a pathway near it. And I was like, No, no, no, no. Do you remember this now? Jake to confirm that I'm right because you said this to us at least 15,000, 16,000. No. Yes. No, because my argument counter argument, Jasmine, back me up here. She knows I'm right. Would a coaster manufacturer not be able to make anything do it? This is true. Would they not? I mean, they can. They can do anything you want. It's about how much money you're ready to spend. I'm gonna say if you go to Hershey Park, you'll see like Jake, I'm sure you see, they build coasters on top of each other over there. Quite literally. Exactly. So they can build roller coasters on stilts over Alpen. What's the problem? Okay, but your counter argument was making me sound crazy for thinking that they could build a coaster anywhere. You're, yes. You're just crazy. My thoughts, oh, my counter argument because I can't give my thoughts. My counter argument is essentially, let's say Wonderland needed to get track into the mountain. I've made this counter argument since the beginning. They have to carry track sideways on that telecarrier, right? So when a telecarrier is carrying a track segment, they have to bring it in sideways. Now the only alternative to that is if a flat bed were to arrive with track and it were to just go right into the park, into the mountain through shipping and receiving. So that's the only counter argument that would demolish my complete argument, which makes sense, because they rushed the shipping and receiving maintenance dock. They didn't do that for Yukon though, did they? No, they just- Is Yukon built in a mountain? Yeah, but I'm saying they never brought a piece with a telecarrier, they did. No, I'm saying from a flat bed directly into the park. It was always flat bed to storage, offload onto storage. Yeah, they would bring in storage. If you remember, they would bring three pieces of track a day into the park before opening. They would bring whatever fit on that flat bed. Yeah, but no, they would only bring three pieces a day. At most, if you're lucky, you got three pieces. Yeah, I do too. We were good friends with the truck drivers. There's photos of me hanging off the track. Do you remember laughing at you guys from the inside, come on. Being what? I feel like they're there. When I was on video. Oh, we weren't hanging out yet? No, because you're trying to run to ride rides. We wouldn't have been hanging out with Surya yet at the time. I didn't get broken up. Oh my goodness, I just realized how deep that was. So the counter argument would be that that third tunnel is for track pieces to go inside because it's a pretty wide cut. So there's three arguments to it. It's either to carry track pieces in, which I think shipping and receiving was rushed for that. So think about shipping and receiving. That was the first thing they built to get things into the mountain, right? Secondly, let's say, okay, third tunnel, it's not for bringing track pieces in. What else could it be for? Well, there's the option that it is wide enough for a two-person cedar train to go in and out, especially if they're able to widen it to the right a little more, which they are. They can widen it a couple feet. They have up until the end of Thunder Runs. Pissing off Jacob, it's working. Did they already pour concrete in that tunnel though? Nope. It's the only tunnel that has zero work done to it. Just a little gravel stone so the tires don't slip going in. Or the ride's coming out of it in just one way. And then it's heading back a different way. I think I talked about that. We have a whole side for that. What I want to go into now, the misconception with how much space is in the mountain. So let's say that you spread. What is that word? Something that I think was a thing maybe five, six, seven years ago. It used to be funny. What does it mean? People that like YouTube Shorts, I have no... It's like a YouTube Short kind of person thing to like. But nonetheless, the space in the mountain. So I drew up a really rough draft, guys. This is not fully accurate. But I can guarantee you that this is a really good representation as to the area that Wonderland has to work with. Now imagine you're in the basement where these two tunnels all go down to, okay? You have a really big red section in the middle of this workable space that Guardian's drop track takes up. It is impossible for the coaster to go through it, over it, but it can only go around it. And it is really hard for it to go around it. But I wanted to show you guys because I want to show you how hard it would be to fit elements and a station in here, if that makes sense. So if you were to visualize launch tunnel number one being utilized as a launch and an Imelman coming out of the top of the mountain, how? Because you have to remember that Guardian's station's right there above the tunnel, right? So it can't launch and come up right away as soon as it exits the tunnel, right? It has to go past Guardian's station, which then brings it closer to, like you have to remember, it has to line up perfectly straight too. It can't do a turn and then come up if it's launching and it's an intense coaster. So that's why I drew this. I wanted you guys to visualize, if it were to enter the mountain, what kind of stuff would it be doing? Jasmine, what do you think? Based off of the really artistic and professional drawing that are- That is not the word I'd use to describe that. Yeah, you're like full blown CAD markup here. I think it's more likely, again, this is also my bias because I want a little dark ride section in here, not gonna have the station in the mountain. I think logistics-wise, just like you said, it would be really difficult. They would have to do a lot of major work to make sure that there's space for it in there. And it's also not the most sensible thing when you look at logistics of how the crowd flows through the park. There's already a lot of sort of, it's what I'm looking for, where everyone funnels into one smaller pathway around the mountain. So crowd flow-wise, I think we would have mayhem if the station is in or around the mountain just because of the way traffic moves around the park. So I think it's likely to be somewhere else if we are using sky flyer, sky rider, I keep saying it wrong. But if we are using that plot of land, to me, that's the one that makes the most sense for a station. Because, again, just the way crowds move, there's room for, sorry, my dog is totally trying to get in this stream right now. There's totally room for crowd to flow around there and there's room for a station, there's room for a queue. All of that stuff you have to take into consideration. And I just feel like it would be wild if they could fit all that into the mountain and have the coaster partially go through it. So I would like to see station somewhere else and what space we do have in the mountain used towards theming and having some kind of little dark ride element. And, yes, Benny is trying to make an appearance so we'll just introduce him. Hi, say hi, everybody. This is Benny. Oh, he's so cute. And now we're gonna not have him take over the stream. That's enough. Seria, what do you think about spacing in the mountain? I mean, there is a lot of space in there. There's also a lot of obstacles in there. So it really depends, in my opinion, on the model of ride. Okay, let's just say, if it's a B&M wing coaster, which I don't think a B&M wing coaster, I don't think a wing train is going in there, but if it is a wing train, there's only really one place it can go and that's just straight up. Because right when it enters, it needs to go up. So I don't think that's gonna happen. I don't think B&M's trains can handle that. No offense to B&M. If it's a smaller ride, like a Zamperla or Premiere or Vekoma or literally anything else than a 20-foot wide wing train, I think there is, you know, depending, provided it's going a little bit slower, so you're not flying in the mountain at 120 kilometers an hour because then you really can't do much other than go straight. Can we just mute the people that are spamming these weird words? Yeah, I'm working, I don't want you to worry. If, oh my leg just hurts. Chad's going rogue. If, you know, let's say the ride starts in the mountain or it's going a little bit slower, maybe 40, 50 kilometers an hour going around some like S-curves or something. I think there is quite a bit of things that can be done. Again, depending on how wide the ride vehicles are and how wide the track is. So I think it really just depends on what model of ride it is, but if you are, you know, again, not going super fast, I think you can weave around most of the obstacles if it's planned out properly. Except Guardians Drop Track, that big center red blob, that is immovable and you can't go through it. You've seen that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like they've done tours in the mountain. So can I ask Maria, does that mean that your theory is somewhat aligned with Krega and that the queue would be in the mountain? I, I mean, like most of Guardians queue was built to be in the mountain. I don't know why they don't use that extended part, but yeah, I think there's possibility that the queue could be in the mountain. I think it would be really cool. It'd be kind of like, well, I've never been to Universal or Disney, but it would be more like that, right? Like how they do a more indoor thing. And then they could do like- I could see like, again, going back to the mummy, that queue is sort of stacked. Like there's a part where you go upstairs and so they're able to use more space vertically like that. I could, I could see it being possible. Yeah, so from my understanding, why I don't think a station and a queue line would be in the mountain is the reason they don't use the extended queue on Guardian anymore is flooding issues. That sounds like the mountain. The mountain is a really bad infrastructure, hopefully the park doesn't sense it. It's a really bad infrastructure. It's caution- Okay, you're trading people from like what, 50, 60 years ago? That's true. It's not their fault. That's kind of like my grandfather. Well, can we, can we ask him some questions? I have no, if we can. Okay. I know. It floods, it's got a lot of dust. There's not good air ventilation. There's a lot of structural and infrastructure issues with the mountain. So housing, emergency exits, all this jazz just seems like a nightmare. And I think that's where, I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm not saying it's not possible. But I think extreme sky flyer, like the hydraulic line. We're gonna get to that in a second. So we'll talk about that. We won't talk about that yet. But even still, think about a high thrill ride. Like, I mean... Well, you're not blasting in there at 100 plus kilometers an hour. That's for sure, not hitting something. So when people are really excited about this second launch, if it's a second launch, you do have very little options once you enter this space. And many of us who have, I can't say what, but if you know what I'm referencing right now. I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. I was completely blown up for the last five minutes. Can we mute our mics for a second? Oh, I got scared for a second. I have. So now, with what you know, picture a big high thrill coaster maneuvering. It would have to be something that's, you need a mic. It would have to be something that's like, if it were to be shoved in there, and I'm not saying it is a possibility, but it would have to be something like... It's good wording. Like Maverick, like something like that that can whip you around in that sort of aspect. Otherwise, you can't be whipped around by many other rides designs. There is the possibility to do some tighter outs. You know, like that, but otherwise, you can't really be whipped around in that crammed of an area. It's not that big of a space as much as you'd like to believe it is. You gotta remember, it's a frame and paper mache. And there's not much space outside the frame. I think it really depends on how fast you're going like in there. Like if it's a launch, you're not gonna launch and start doing all these twists and turns in there. I don't think there's enough room. But if it's just a straight section of track, that's the launch inside the mountain and then it launches you out of the mountain, then you can go as fast as you want and do whatever you want then, right? When you're in open space. Yeah. Anyone curious about Wonder Mountain's Guardians transfer track section removed and not being reinstalled with the ride testing? Remove the rest of the ride too while you're at it. Am I inserting thoughts? We can be hopeful. Who would miss it? Let's be honest. Oh, I'm not saying it's being removed. Think about it though. No, I'm wishing that it's being removed. I'm not saying it is. I'm just putting it out there. Why is that? Gideon doesn't have a transfer in the mountain, does it? It doesn't. It has two. Not everyone knows about that, too. It has one upstairs. It has one downstairs. They never showed us that on the tours. Really? No, they didn't. There's a whole video online where Peter takes a university, I think, or an American coaster group. It's one of the two, and you can see it. Yes, Ryan is true. There can always be more holes added. Well, we just saw three appear out of nowhere, so. Well, the third one came out of nowhere. I remember being in Discord and I'm flying and I'm like, why? That digger looks like it's in the mountain. And then I'm like, it's in the mountain. But I'm trying to think of how to word this. There's 100% work going on in the mountain that we're not aware of. Yeah, you wouldn't even be able to see it at all. It'd be on the basement floor. The basement basement, yeah. Which I think I have a shot for you guys. Oh, you show them, Brendan. Guardian construction. I remember this. Ooh! Do you know they started construction on Guardian at the end of the day? Jared, you have someone you can reach out to about that. Also, I don't think your account's banned from the Discord. Yeah, I think you have. But Jake, you don't have to delete his. Oh, OK, I thought Jake deleted it. Mountain construction. Everyone thought this picture was real. This was 2025. Oh, my God, this stirrup. No, oh, my goodness. This is Guardian being built. And what you're looking at right now is the Guardian's drop track main footer right there. I actually learned a new term. It's called a case on, isn't it? Case on, yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a good term. The sonotube when it's in the ground, then it's a case on. Yeah, yeah. That's someone in construction taught me that. So yeah, that is the main footing for that. But what I want to show you guys is I'm going to move Patreon chat for a second. All right. What you're looking at. So do you know when I'm talking about Guardian's drop track wall? Do you see Thunder Runs staircase right there? Do you see Thunder Runs exit everyone? It's behind the excavator up in the air a little bit. And you see that little thin sliver of concrete wall that's about to be built upward? Well, that's a wall that goes to the ceiling, essentially. It goes up and over. So the third tunnel, by the way, is just behind the excavator just off to the left of that little ramp built into the wall there, Thunder Runs exit. So imagine how is Wonderland going to get from tunnel number one, which is behind us in this photo, essentially, through a wall to tunnel three? It's almost impossible, right? It's literally impossible. So it's got to do maneuvers. It has two options, which, again, we'll go back to those. It's got to it has one of two pathways to travel. Now, coasters do have switch tracks now. So it can use switch tracks to utilize a way in and out. And obviously, the PLC system, right? Is that the right way? PLC, yeah. PLC? Oh my god. What's it stand for, Brendan? Yeah, Craig, what does it stand for? I don't know. I'm not an enthusiast. I don't run an enthusiast- Wait, wait, wait, let me. Pneumatic? Is it programmable or pneumatic? Programmable. Launch control, no? Logic. Controller. All logic controller. Programmable. That's what I said. Yeah, that's what you said. I hear LC and I think Clark. It's made up of a series of computers, relays, pneumatics, and hydraulics. A vertical launch could work, but you have to remember Guardian is in the way, guys. Look at the tunnel, maintenance tunnel one, maintenance tunnel one, launch tunnel one. Look, Guardian is literally in the way. The only benefit this has is the footings for Guardian in that stationary and turnout do not go to the basement. It's built on the slab. So it has the ability to go under, but it is heading right for a place that it cannot pass through. So like Surya said, it has only one option to go up. Align Guardian's track design with the path that this coaster would have to go up. And there's no option to go up, right? It would have to, like, couldn't it launch vertically in the middle of Thunder Run? But it's still, I mean, it could do, like, again, a coaster manufacturer. No, because in the middle of Thunder Run is Herman. Yeah. They wouldn't get rid of Herman. Yeah. The mountain is brighter on the inside. But yeah, I have to be really careful here. See, that's a cool thing. Volcano, the blast coaster relocated. You know, when that ride opened, when Kings Dominion built that ride, that mountain was never designed for that ride. It was for another attraction. I can't remember what, but it was like the Lazy River boat attraction. I don't know. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, if anyone knows the name of the original ride, please let me know. But Volcano was never designed for that ride, so they completely retrofitted everything to build that. I didn't know that. A really good question to ask you guys right now is. Smurf Mountain. Yes, Smurf Mountain. Look up Smurf Mountain. It was really cool. A really good question to ask you guys right now is, you've heard me talk about a change of plans. Kari, you have to keep your mouth shut here. Lots of cabin quiet, anyway. No, he has to keep his mouth shut. I also ask you and Jasmine, do you think there was a big change of plans that's moved everything around? Yeah, Jasmine, you. I think so. I mean, the way things have happened so quickly, and I just, there's been a few hints that kind of lean towards that. I think it's very, very possible, especially with sky flyers not coming down so quickly and without an announcement happening until it was done. I think that kind of makes me lean, like, yes. There were some last-minute decisions, some kind of expansion of this project, or addition onto the project, or something that would. Because normally they would let you know, like, oh, this is this ride's last season. Oh my god, Skyrider? What was the stand-up one? Skyrider. All the names are jumbled up in my head right now. But we had, like, everybody had their, like, last ride moment on that. There was no such forward notice for this. Like, like you guys said, we just kind of all woke up one day and there's holes in the mountain, and, like, they're taking a ride down. Like, Grace kind of had to, it seemed like she had to play catch-up with what was happening on social media rather than being ahead of it, which tells me that there was some quick decisions going on. I guess the one thing we can confirm is that Skyrider, Skyflyer, oh my goodness, Skyflyer was a last-minute removal. Can you vouch for that? I can vouch for that. Skyflyer was not planned to get removed in the, not yet. It was a last-minute decision. The park did wish that they could have done last rides. So we can confirm that. And you'll learn that at a later date. Documentary. Oh. So do you think this is last-minute? I lost my train of thought there for the last minute. Again, I personally can't say for 100%. But what I can say is, when people say, these things are set in stone, nothing is set in stone. The perfect example actually did happen to Wonderland with Valravn. There was markings on the ground that they had everything ready to go. And it's been documented. There are old YouTube videos, random videos, like by the water park. That path was already slated to be moved in 2015, guys. 2015, it was supposed to open in 2016. And in 2015, you know, Cedar Fair is like, no, we can't, we can't go to Wonderland. It has to go to Cedar Point because they just did the renovations on the hotel. They lost the Golden Ticket Award for best amusement park in the world. I went to Europa Park, so they needed to do something. And they thought building Valravn or whatever was going to be called at Wonderland there would have been the ideal thing. So that right there is proof that even within months of breaking ground, things can change. And not just small things, like $30 million investments can change like that. And it's not like another company stealing it from us. It's within Cedar Fair. So they have the right to last minute say, hey, you know what, no, no, no, no, Wonderland doesn't get that, or Kings Dominion doesn't get that, or whatever. They can move things wherever they want within the company whenever they want. So yeah, I think it's very possible that last minute changes have been made. Yeah. I think the original plan was to obviously have a wing coaster station in international show place. And it would turn into that maintenance tunnel one and launch up out of the mound and do a really small Kings Dominion layout. I think we're really lucky. I think we were going to get a really small wing coaster. Like that was powerful, but like a quick little two train. I honestly think they were thinking two trains. And I think there was a budget increase because Cedar Fair has a really big plan for Wonderland that I've been saying for years. And I think that they're finally finding their identity in terms of bringing almost like the history back to Wonderland. And we saw all the survey. The entire park's been surveyed at this point, essentially. Like it's been surveyed. So there's obviously some sort of like massive plan. We know that Wonderland's working on a splash works expansion behind the scenes. They admitted that themselves at the ACE event. And it's crazy that it was so, it looks like it was so last minute. Again, what looks last minute to last can be the change of plans happened a year ago, right? These surveys could have been, it's a third party company that does these surveys, by the way, it's not Wonderland. So these surveys could have been, for all we know, could have been whipped up years ago, like a year ago and uploaded to an automatic upload. And the park just forgot to like, you know. So that survey went out. It could also be two. It could also be two that like, oftentimes when it comes to long-term planning, like when they're making five year to 10 year plans, they could have like plan A, plan B, plan C, depending on what their budget ends up totaling out to. Cause, you know, they might have to go get approval for a loan. They might have to get approval from the, you know, bigwigs up top of Cedar Fair slash now also Six Flags. So it could be that like you said, we were originally looking at a certain type of coaster, a wing coaster that was slated here to go through this part of the mountain and whatever. And maybe they were like, okay, well, then if we get this budget, then we look at this size coaster, this type of layout, this type of whatever. And then if we get a bigger budget, then we look at this option, whatever. So like you said, these things are very likely planned out in advance, but which of the options they go with might not have been solidified until they solidify their budget. And then things can move quickly. Yeah. Which brings me to how last minute this project, if it did change, very, very last minute, which manufacturers would be open with not many projects on their conveyor belt to be able to whip up a last minute design for Wonderland. Speculation. For me or her? Oh, um, that's not me saying anything guys, don't worry. Speculation, it's a speculation channel. For me or her? I don't know, like that's tough. It also depends on the size of team of any one manufacturer. Like you might think they're too busy, but maybe they're not, I don't know. That's true. So I should have added this slide in. Okay, so we're gonna open up a whole can of words, but I do wanna say with an account or argument to the Premier, because you guys, it's too late. I put the video out, it's too late. I put the Premier video out, it's too late. Can't take it back. Oh, we're all like, oh, it's Premier. Well. The argument, you know, Premier, blah, blah, too late. They went with an American manufacturer that doesn't have many projects that could be blah, blah, blah, but the counter argument is when Wonderland did that with a wing coaster in mind, they still went to other manufacturers and had other designs whipped up. That is a confirmed process that every park does. When they want a project, they approach as many manufacturers as possible, price-wise, design-wise, and all that. They don't just go up to B&M and they're like, well, we want this. They might have done that for a little while there. Yes. It seemed like it. Like, I mean, for a dive coaster, they're not going to Intune and being like, can you build us one of those tiny little things? You know, fun fact that Millennium Force was supposed to be B&M. I had heard that rumor. Was it from you? Yeah. Yeah, B&M said they wouldn't go over 300 fare. They wouldn't go over 90 miles an hour. Can you imagine a B&M back then that tall? B&M giga, yeah, because their tallest was Apollo's chariot. What the problems they're having now, what problem? Oh my god, think about that, though, for a second. What the problems they're having with today's technology, can you imagine back then? Honestly, probably would have worked better. I think that's why they didn't do it. No, it sucks. So what was I saying? OK, Kregas, take a little break. You know this, Krega, sorry. What was I saying? What was I saying? What conference? I lost my train of thought. Oh, manufacturers. So yes, Wonderland would have had other manufacturers planned. But again, the whole idea was a blast coaster coming out of the top of the mountain. So. Well, that was one of the ideas. That was one of the ideas. That's true. So. We think that's possible. We just, you know, they're not going to drill a hole in the top of the mountain yet. What if it's on the side of the mountain? That makes more sense. I think anything is going to ruin that mountain. And I think that's what I think that might have been one of their thought processes. It really is, though. It really is. The front of it's cute and all, but the back of it's like me. Let's get to I think I did already about the other manufacturers and oh, Kings Dominion. So let's say, let's say Wonderland still is going to work with BNM on this project. OK, let's say that. Let's say maybe the bridge isn't as burned as the rumblings are hearing out there. I think that could be a whole podcast episode, actually. Really? Yeah. There's a lot I want to say on that. Really? Yeah. OK, maybe we can hold it until next week. But we'll touch on it a little bit. So Kings Dominion, I don't know if you've seen the construction update as of yesterday. I have not. They have so many footings done, poured for that tiny little wing coaster. So just keep in mind, too, with Kings Dominion, they have a different calendar than they do. They open a month and a half earlier than us. They do. It's a small coaster, though. Yukon didn't even have this. Do we know it's a small coaster, for sure? Yeah, yeah, the blueprints, like the actual city blueprints leaked. I think, what was the question again? BNM, something about BNM. Would I ask? Why are they starting so early? Yeah, why is Kings Dominion starting so early? Thank you. Probably because they don't want to fall behind. That's what I would have to guess. They don't want to fall behind. And their season is quite a bit different than ours, right? Once they go to full-time operations, they won't be able to do any work. And if you think about it, I don't know when full-time starts for them. It may start late earlier than us. But let's say they go full-time at the end of May, or mid-May, right? Then you have to stop doing construction. So from May to Labor Day, you can't do anything in the park. And then you're only limited to weekends. Wait, why? Because it's all behind a construction wall. Wait. Is it? Yeah. If anybody thinks I want to go vape, that's so disappointing. I quit vaping. I didn't lie. You actually didn't lie. I went pee. Oh, OK. What the hell? Where is the construction? Is it at the mountains old area? It's near the Bobsled and the IA305 and all that. It's in a field. It's not in the way of anything. They have construction walls up everywhere blocking it. They have teasers on the wall. Yeah, they can work around the clock. This is early for a small wing coaster. Isn't it just two trains as well? I have no idea. It's two trains, right, guys? Is that manufacturer that they're working with? BNM. So I had a theory. Oh, no. Never mind. I'll hold my thought. So BNM has a lot of projects right now, right? And it's five coasters max that Clearmont factory can work on? I think Clearmont can do four. But I'm pretty sure they have fabrication somewhere else too. OK. So let's say that BNM is rushing this project. That's why you see, because Wonderland will then be up next, because it is a month and a half later, that would explain the really early construction at King's Dominion. So how much? Well, I guess if it's a small one, they don't need to worry about manufacturing track, like a lot of track. What other projects do they have for 2025? What else are they manufacturing for? I don't know 2025. I'm the wrong person to ask about that. But I know they have definitely over four right now in their portfolio that are being finished. But a lot of their track is done being manufactured, I believe, like Penguin Track, the Busch Gardens, Invert, Family Invert. The good thing with those are, though, it's not like, OK, it's not like a gig, a coaster. It's not like a hyper coaster. Like these rides aren't 5,000 feet long. They don't have 150 plus track segments, right? What if Wonderland really went with a two-seater sit-down BNM launch coaster? That would be extremely disappointing. You would find that. No, no, no, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. So out of all the BNM launch coasters, Thunderbird is my favorite, or a BNM launch. I've done the four in North America. I think Thunderbird is the best, because it has the launch. And Thunderbird is only five, right? And it's a shorter ride. Holiday World specifically wanted it shorter, like, because it's a smaller park, right? And in fact, on their media day, at the Hollywood nights, they specifically said they had the option to do eight trains. However, that would require a lot more power to launch it, but they could still do it. And Holiday World said, no, they acknowledged that they don't get that long of a crowd, so it's unnecessary. Wonderland, however, you know, we pull in four and a half million attendants a year, so yeah, the ride would be cool, I think, but it would be extremely disappointing to see them purposely go with a lower capacity ride when BNM has proven that they could do, like, gatekeeper-sized trains, that they could do full capacity rides the way that Wonderland would want it. So that's where my disappointment came from. So wait, Penguin Trek, the BNM sit down, can't do eight cars? No, I'm, I don't know how many cars that they can probably do as many cars as they want, but I'm saying, why would Wonderland want five, like a five-car train, when they could do more? But wait, wasn't the argument against, like, I... No, you said, how does that make you feel if Wonderland gets like a small, the two... Oh, but I didn't, like, it could be how many cars do they want it to be, but... Oh, I thought I should have said five. You're saying BNM sit down versus a BNM wing, or whatever. Like, what if they go with a BNM sit down? That's launched? Yeah. What's wrong with that? No, nothing. I think I would take that over with. Because those trains were gorgeous. And they can just hide in new ones, yeah. But again, I'm just presenting a lot of ideas. Because I, am I the only one? Chat, chat. Guys, I need your help here. Because this is a theory I've been running just for the last, like, couple of days. Why is King's Dominion... So I actually thought technology was breaking there. Why is King's Dominion rushing their coaster? Because that's rushing, in my opinion. Am I wrong? Is it not rushing? Help me out here. What if they go back to being all year around and they want something that can run. Oh, that perks the last part that's ever going back to the whole year. They don't make any money. They have better rides than we do. And they still make no money. No, but even for one month earlier than us, this is really early for that scale of a coaster. Why are you so quiet? Did something happen? Can you guys hear us? I think chat's talking to each other there. Oh, okay. It could also just be if there are other projects that are other parts. This doesn't mean Wonderland, but yeah. I do find it really early for a small scale launched wing coaster. Someone said, oh, I guess it's going to set something about I-305. I-305 is getting a re-seam by the looks of it. Not to a tiger like people thought to a cheater or something. What is it? A jaguar, a jaguar. People figured out the theme is a jaguar. What are those cats? Because that's what's on the mural. I mean, hey, it's cool. It's better than Thunder Striker. Let's go right there. I think you were making fun of Yukon Striker. Thunder Striker. What's Thunder Striker? It's a garbage. Forms it. Yeah. She'll be coming around the mountain when she comes. So, yeah, I just wanted to show you guys some Wonder Mountain. So there is an electrical room in the mountain, and this was it being built for Wonder Mountain's Guardian. And then the Wonder Mountain Guardian construction for big parts of the ride. So if you look closely, it's just the footing for the drop track that's down there and the walls to protect the ride area from the rest of the mountain. I have learned that they have to insulate ride sections in that mountain. So when they build a ride section, they have to close it off to the mountain because the mountain is not actually a protected space. There are weather that gets in there. There's all sorts of animals and stuff that get in there. Little enthusiasts running around. Little enthusiasts running around. Yeah. So, yeah. Personally, see somebody climb that mountain that should not have climbed that mountain. On TikTok? In front of my face. Remember the guy? Were you with us? He lost his phone. Oh, yeah. And they got kicked out. Yeah, and he climbed up the mountain. Yeah. I don't remember. So he climbed onto the mountain and then up the path. Oh my God. Security came. He literally, he climbed up the mountain. I wish I was joking. I posted on TikTok, actually. You guys can go watch the video. Yeah, go find us. But yeah, I just wanted to show you guys that. Now let's talk about the really confusing, what the Leviathan is going on with this layout. What could they possibly do for a layout? Did you measure the distances between extreme, like the most, I guess, eastern end of extremes plot to the mountain one way? But it wouldn't be a straight launch section. No, no, no. I just want to know distance. Because if it's 3,000 feet one way and the coaster has to go there in back, that's over 6,000 feet long. I can't see Wonderland doing anything like that. You want me to measure it right now? OK, podcast. Take a chill pill for a sec. I think I had measured it. Let me see if I can pull it up. Or maybe, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, let John measure it so he doesn't. No, it's OK. They can still hear us. They can see us in everything. They don't even know what I'm doing right now. We're just on Google Maps, and we're going to do quick measuring using Google Maps measuring tool. OK, so for example, I think this is where the station's going, because you brought up that point. Why would they remove those specific things? Yeah, to here or to the middle? Do it to the middle. From the sky flyer to the tunnel. 200 meters. It's like 215. OK, let's just say if it's 250, that's less than 1,000 feet one way. That's it? Oh, yeah, it's definitely possible then. Yeah, so would you say it's impossible to go to Alpen? 300 meters. Let's say it's right at the bottom is 1,000 feet. Now it's 1,300 feet one way. That's a straight line, though. Yeah, obviously we do maneuver. OK, yeah, you add an extra 1,000 feet minimum for maneuvers. That's actually pretty short, then. That's only 3,000 feet. So with that measurement, it's very possible, then, yeah. Look how excited Saria is getting. I have to see the. Yeah, I thought it would be more. I'm hoping it's a little more than just 3,000 feet. I'm a bad engineer. My distances are way off. I'm just looking at my screenshots that I took of the measurements. So from the edge of the mountain to by the fly, it was like 115 meters. And from that same edge of the mountain to Sky Flyers plot, it was like 215. And then I had compared that to both Velocicoster and Guardians of the Galaxy. And it was comparable to both. Yeah. I do think with recent interactions and stuff that this is going to be Wonderland's premier kind of like. It doesn't mean it's going to be better than Leviathan. But you know how they said Snoopy's Racing Railway was kind of like really important to them? I feel like this project is Wonderland's baby based off of, hold on one second, hold on one second. Can I mute ourselves for a second? Lip readers in the chat. Are there lip readers in the chat? That'd be scary. They're trying. I'm in a lot of trouble if there's lip readers in the chat. Because, OK, someone's like, why are you muting? Because some things are not allowed to be said, trust me. Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out how to word this then. I'll just say this. How do I word this? Well, there's a lot of reasons why, like we were saying earlier of the last minute ride removal, it's seeming like Grace is playing catch-up with certain things when it comes to announcing them publicly. To me, that's clues that this is something they're keeping quiet until they absolutely have to talk about it to the public. Yeah. They definitely are keeping a close eye on everything. And yeah. So in terms of direction and flow, no, I love him. He's a good guy. I like him. Don't worry. Don't worry. I like him. Don't worry. Your guys are right. We know nothing. Don't worry about it. There's nothing to lip read here. Yes. No, he's a good guy, trust me. So with the Black Coaster layout, you have the option of heading into the mountain and blasting out the top and heading back. So Black is one option. Oh, my God. Then with the measurements we just did, that's like 1,500 feet. Yeah, it's a really small coast. Terrible. But very in line with what's, let's say, Premier, right? Is that a little Helix? Oh, I did ignore the actual elements. Ignore the actual elements. That's a question mark, isn't it? It was a question mark. Blue is another area. That's not a layout, by the way. Blue is another area the coaster could head out to. And then green is like the crazy, because I originally was like, OK, how does this coaster get back? You know what I mean? Thinking of multiple options. They're not going to send this thing right in front of the mountain. Absolutely not. That'd be so stupid. I would kill everything. You could front gate it. So you're not too crazy of an idea there with the green line. Yeah, the green line takes it back down the other. So it kind of hugs international street. That'd actually be really cool. Getting kind of close to Leviathan there. You know, it's claiming it's territory. Oh, yeah, I am. Leviathan, I was wondering. Getting close to the garbage. I don't see Yukon anywhere. No, I think Wonderland had a short coaster planned to fit in with our pretty big expansion plan. I think Wonderland's star expansion plan was supposed to be the GCI and Whitewater Canyon, truthfully. I think that was Wonderland's big, like. Like the Zambezi Zingers? Yeah, like with that massive themed area. I think that was Wonderland's next big thing. And the wing coaster was a good coaster, but still filler until then, which sounds weird to say, because normally the little coasters are the filler and the big coasters aren't. But the two operation launched wing coaster seemed like filler to me. Well, and they are going theming heavy. So if that was not going to be as much of a whole themed area, not telling as much of a story, then yes, the family option that is a big themed area would have been a bigger deal to them. But it kind of seems like somebody showed up and dropped a bomb on them, like, we're going to do that. But huge. Pink Mountain. What are your thoughts so far? I know you're at H.D.'s making you lost. Yeah, I feel bad. I can always tell when we rant too much, Craig gets lost because he has, like, ADHD, right? OK, Leo, where do you think this coaster could go? Back. How do you think it's going to travel back once it gets into the mount? Because I'll say this. I'll say this. Jasmine, back me up here. OK, you guys want to hear about some of our secrets? Jasmine, would you say it's pretty confident that we're pretty confident at this point, and Serena and Craig, that this coaster is in the mountain and going to be in the mountain? If I were to make an educated guess, I would say the mountain on the inside right now probably looks kind of similar to that photo of Wonder Mountain's Guardian construction we were looking at. That's just my guess. That photo was from 2014 of Guardian's floating water to Guardian's drop track. Well, that was a great way to avoid that. Jasmine's the jake. Was there a drop track? Listen, I'm just throwing out guesses here. I don't know anything. I can't look at the camera right now. I'm going to make it go away. I'm just saying, I think there's hella construction going on in there more than what we might know. And how fast they're moving? Like, we've got three tunnels in, like, two days. Come on. Yeah, there's definitely stuff going on in the mountain. Prediction speculation channel. And the coaster is 100% going in the mountain based off of our prediction here, speculation. We all just think and assume. We're all making guesses, just bottom line. Just so everyone's clear, we are speculating. We are just looking at what we have seen so far and making educated guesses based on that. But I don't think they're making three tunnels and then not doing anything inside the mountain. That's all I'm saying. No, that's yeah. And Guardian is a good ride. Fly the drone into the mountain. I can tell you my drone wouldn't make it halfway through the park before losing reception and falling out of the sky. Or battery. Every 10 minutes, it's like, oh, I want to go charge the drone. Oh, my god. Just bring a car battery with you. There's a reason I bought a drone with, like, but yeah. So again, the path of travel is really confusing. But there is a storyline forming. Now that the mountain in amusement insiders and friends and stuff's prediction is going to be used for the coaster. And OK, Surya, this is where you shine, I think. So recent discoveries. Hydraulic line heading towards the skyjacks that would lift the riders up and down on extreme skyflyer. It's been exposed. It's not been exposed. And it's furthest thing. It's exposed right here in this large footing's location. I want you to comment on what you talked to me about why they would need to remove these footings because of another reason they could keep them technically and then explain why they might be exposing a section of the hydraulic line. Well, I mean, they could have just very well buried the footing if it wasn't in a place of importance, especially for a footing like this, like how deep it was and how massive it was. That costs quite a bit of money. What did I explain to you? About the footing? Yeah, so you were saying, like, if it was, for example, a flat ride or even just a coaster support, it could have used that footing. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if that was for, like, because parks reuse footings all the time, right? Like, not reuse them in the sense where, oh, you know, I'm just going to re-pour, like, just put a whole new column on it and then everything's there. But no, they refurbished. They retrofit the footing. The best example of that is at Busch Gardens Williamsburg with Big Bad Wolf that used the same original footing holes that used some of the same original concrete. So they very well could have reused those footings or just buried them if it wasn't in a place of importance. And let's just say you were going to put something there, like a station or even a lift hill or something that required, you know, different specifications, then, yeah, you would want to remove that. You said lift hill. I don't like that. You don't like that? I don't like lift hill. No, we don't like lift hills? No, we haven't after those. We do. Launch lift. Yeah, so that was a really good observation. Now, the hydraulic line, why would they hydrovac? Keywords, hydrovacs. So hydrovac is pretty much a giant vacuum cleaner in a pressure washer. They use the pressure washer to blast away any dirt, gravel, or sediment, and then they suck it up to remove it. But that form of excavation is done for very sensitive areas. And when you need to do precise excavating without damaging the soil around it or without damaging a specific utility as in the hydraulic line, right? Because if you go in there with an excavator, you're just going to rip everything out. However, hydrovac, the water is pressurized strong enough to blast away the soil, but keep everything else intact. And again, it's to access precise points wherever they want to access of that certain utility. Yeah. So if they've exposed a section of the hydraulic line. Now, the only weird thing is it's not the end of the hydraulic line. It's a specific section. What could that be for? Like, I'm curious. I didn't actually get to ask you this yet. I honestly have no idea. Because here's the thing, right? If you were going to completely get rid of it, you would just go in there with a backhoe, attach a chain to it, and just rip it all out. What do you call me? An excavator. You go in there with an excavator and you just rip it out, right? And that's the end of it. I think being cold in excavator is worse. Those are big. The only thing I can think of that they want to do it this way if they were going to remove it is because there is hydraulic fluid left in the line and they can't risk ripping it open. But even then, you could still just directly vac that out of the line. So at the end of it, right? At the end, yeah. Or at any point. And it depends where the line actually goes to, where the central pump is for the line, and stuff like that, and what the importance is of that. To be honest, I have no idea what any hydraulics would do on a modern-day launch coaster. Really? Yeah, in terms of ride function, everything's electrical now. Oh, dang. Or pneumatic. So that's a little confusing. That is very confusing. If they choose to keep that for an existing project, it's also weird because that hydraulic line is probably pushing 30 years old. So with where they cut this at the very edge of the product, could they cut it there and cap it off? They could cut it there and do whatever they want there. They could put a pump there. They could put a couple there to make it go somewhere else. OK, so that could be one of the options. Because if they were going to expose it to vacuum it out, they would have done it at the end, right? Yeah, they would have done it at any point and just ripped it out. They would have ripped it out, to be honest. They wouldn't use a HydroVac. That's for sure now that I think about it. Because that's for very precise. You'll see those on streets and stuff when they're installing fiber optics, or they can't cut any lines. So I just wanted to expose that. Because to me, now this is very speculative. But I drew this black line because there seemed to be a very distinct, almost straight section here. I don't know if it's because it's just visually appealing with the two footings dug up. But it just looks like there's an evident plan with that. I don't know. But that's a huge reach. Again, it is very weird that they would dig up the footings to not use that section of land. And you're the one who brought this up, Brendan, and when Wonderland buried the dolphin pool? Yes. All the concrete walls and stuff still exist there. Yeah. I was thinking that, too, that they don't just do extra work for no reason. It's expensive work. It's very expensive work for that type of concrete. There's a lot of places in parks. Like at King's Island, the original bat from 1972 or whenever it was built, 1979, those original footings are still there in that vacant plot of land. They're like, someday we might need it. What the hell is going on in chat? You guys are here to watch roller coaster stuff. What in the furry is going on in chat? Honestly, god. Craig is like one of the straightest people I know. He did disappoint. But outside of that, that's pretty much what we wanted to address. I do think, based off of you come flying with me quite often now, both of you come flying more. You've been doing a lot of other things. Like, what? Important thing. Yeah, Brendan. I have no life. Things seem to be about to heat up. Do they not? On extreme sky flyers, Potterland? I mean, it's always been kind of heated up, right? Like, since they removed the towers? Yeah. Like, there hasn't been a day where it hasn't been active. Yeah, and the blueprints guy is out now. The blueprints were out this day. He's actually blocked. I blocked the blueprints with the black line. Well, in case you can see it, the black line? I don't know. I promised Wonderland I would never post blueprints again. But yeah, so I'm excited. A lot of people are upset by my Zamperla video about it being a family coaster. I really hope not. So Jasmine, what do you think about the whole theories behind Zamperla? Well, which one specifically? We're running a few now. So like, the whole thing with Zamperla is they announced on a podcast that they had like three coaster projects for 2025. Two kiddie coasters and a family thrill coaster. And that they're most excited about that family thrill coaster. And they think that it'll get worldwide attention when announced and it's outside the USA. I mean, that kind of seems like a very potential fit. And these days, too, like keep in mind, a lot of coasters can be considered family thrill that are on people's top lists. Like, there's the idea of a family thrill coaster has come a long way, I think. So I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing that they labeled it that way. And if they are hinting at it being Wonderland, I think it's possible. It's very possible. Does Jake pull girls? No, he doesn't. Jake wishes. Love you, Jake. But I, you know, OK, the fact that Zamperla went from something like redesigning Dragster, building those gorgeous trains, like in my opinion, not too many companies. I don't think B&M could have done a better job, if I'm being honest, to then going back to something like this seems like a setback, in my opinion, for Zam. Not a setback, not a setback, but I don't know. It's just, it's frustrating. It's very frustrating. I can get into a whole rant about it, but I'm not going to. Again, like. See where you're coming from, though. Because it would be pretty annoying if we now have three rides in the mountain, the only three rides that interact with the mountain, and they're all family. Like, not a one of them is a true thrill coaster. That would be like, really? I think the problem is with a family thrill ride, is people will be bored of it in a year and a half, two years. The families? I think, well, in the summer, it's 75% teenagers in the lines for the big rides. Like, even Guardian, that's a family ride, and it's mostly teenagers in that line. Actually, I shouldn't say that. I don't really ride Guardian. Ooh, one second. Can someone help me? I ask questions on my story, and I forgot to look them up. But there's a way for me to look at that, right? Good start. What did you do? I posted a story a bit ago with questions for the podcast. They're not here. I'm just going to keep talking about them. Or Jasmine, if you have anything you want to add to that. I do want to say, again, just going back to the family thrill thing. Guardians of the Galaxy is considered a family thrill ride, and it's a lot of people up there in their tops. Hagrid's has been considered a family thrill ride, and a lot of people love, love, love that coaster. So it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be boring, or it has to be something like on Wonder Mountain's Guardians level. But I don't lose all hope if it still is considered a family thrill coaster. So when Brendan first said that, my first thought actually was like Hagrid's are Guardians of the Galaxy, or what's the other one? The Tron. The only thing, though, I have with that is look at the parks it's at. Most parks receive 17 million people annually. They're Disney and Universal. That's an international destination. I can't see Wonderland. I mean Tron, I wouldn't consider Tron a great ride. Tron is way too short for the amount of time it took, but that's a different rent. But I see your point there, but I just think if it's being hyped up by the manufacturers, like this is going to get worldwide attention, then I don't think we're looking at a boring family thrill ride. I think we could be looking at something that still would interest a wide range of people and be impressive in its own way. When they say that can garner worldwide attention, or a park, I think actually Blackpool Pleasure Beach may also be a contender, because they're a park president or whatever was teasing something pretty major because they have a ride that's shutting down. That's true. They're competing against that park that just built Hyperic. Yeah, that's true. So they might actually be going for a hike record, or regaining the hike record, because they had it in the first place for the year. I'm going to answer only really good questions from here, just because obviously, are you 100% sure that the station is an extreme Skyrifier's plot of land? No, but a very strong inkling. I think it's in the mountain. It is hard to say there's nothing 100%, but I mean, we can mostly, with a fair bit of assurance, say that it's either at Skyfly or over the mountain. They're not going to build it at Wakewater Canyon or Speed City. Would a Big Bear mountain cli- oh, sorry, Jasmine. What? Do you think extreme Skyrifier's plot of land is the station? Oh, I didn't know that I was going to answer the question. I also think it's most likely. But again, this is with my own bias that I would like to see the space we do have in the mountain used towards it, like having a dark portion of the ride. Would a Big Bear mountain clone match up with what you imagined the budget for 2025 is? I suppose a Big Bear mountain. Dallywood's new launch coaster. No idea. I think that's above our budget, but I don't know, Wonderland's kind of making me really think hard now about this budget. I've never seen. I think with the amount of money they spent on Dragster, I don't think we're going to get something like that. They didn't spend a lot of money on Dragster. They didn't say how much they spent. Early numbers, wasn't it around like? The trains alone were like $5,000,000, $6,000,000. Yeah, but like, Cedar Forest spends usually like $30 million a year on a thing. So it's like within line. That's true. Yeah. Sorry, I just read something. Oh, more questions. Thank you. I'm Instagram, Uncapable. What's a Zamperla energy storm? What? No more flat rides. That sounds like a flat ride. It sounds like a flat ride. Can I bring a guest who is not, and is one of them, past member to attend the pre-season day? No, I don't think so. I really hope not. I don't think so, but there was one year you could. Do you remember that? Yeah, it was terrible. It was busier than opening day. After the construction is over, do you think the third tunnel will be patched up? Yeah, if it's not meant for the ride, yeah, it'll be patched up. I think they're going to put the same paper mache that they put all around it. Paper mache? Paper mache. I mean, it could be left as an egress, like an emergency exit option, but it would be themed, I would think, at least, so that it doesn't look like a hole in the mountain. Well, all these questions are questions like we obviously can't answer or don't know. Is Mach out of the question to Mach? Is Mach out of the question for 2025? Nothing's out of the equation. Yes. Craig has said yes. Anything is possible. Do you guys have any good questions before we wrap this up? We went 30 minutes over. Sirius is probably cursing my name right now. Do you think it could be a dueling coaster, like West Coast Racers? No? No, definitely not. We don't have space for even one, let alone two. Jasmine? A dueling coaster? Not like, I mean, I would love to see it, but don't think so. Does that count as two rides? Yeah. Depends who you ask. No, no, not two credits, not that. I mean, two rides for Wonderland, like they would have 20, 21 instead of 20 if they added a dueling coaster. Yeah, right? They're different layouts, I think so. Who's Throw Seekers United? I thought you timed them out earlier. Big cheese. Throw Seekers United. No, I don't think so. I don't think he was one of them. He was. I would love a Grislye. If we had a 10-meter marrow fighter, I'd be back. Will they add another pizza pizza? I think we have enough pizza pizzas. What do you think the places for Kingswood are? The places for Kingswood. I know Tiny Tom's has not been removed. I would have a mental breakdown. Donk. That's all I wanted to do. You can have it back. Oh, did you actually want to say something? No, I just wanted to hit you with it. Yeah, Tiny Tom's is not going anywhere. Tiny Tom's is. They better not be. It's renovated to a bigger building by the looks of it. It's right next to the Sprite game. Tiny Tom's bigger. Make more Tiny Tom's. I mean, it's such a popular thing. It would make sense that they have two walk-ups. Have you seen the line-up during Winterfest and Haunt for that thing? Could you imagine if they put that on the dining plan? Were you nuts? Yeah, look down. Be disappointed. He lost a lot of weight. Thank you. Not after the Tiny Tom's gets put on the meal plan. Is Wonderland going to announce this coaster in August? Yes, it is not beneficial to Wonderland to announce a coaster in April. Oh, yeah, they would announce it so early. They're going to tease us for several months. They never do it at the beginning of the year, though. They announce their capital with the sale of season passes, right, to get people excited to buy. No, what? No. What about season passes? I want them to put up things all over the park again so people have to get all. Remember last year with you, or a few years ago with Yukon staying, they just put up a date. Nobody knew what was going on. They just left the random tarp over things. And people would just walk by it and be speculating. It was just nice to hear normal people speculate about this stuff. I want that. That's it. They're not going to do that. That's all. That's why I don't think they're going to announce it right in April. There are rumblings that this is going to be their busiest season ever for a market. You know when I was at Olivia, three people came up to me and asked me about Wonderland season passes. Are you serious? Can you attach a little Wonderland info sign on you? Like just a little like. I literally sat there. And Josh was getting upset, and I literally sat there for 30 seconds explaining to them how the season passes. I feel like you enjoy that, though. I feel like out of anyone to go up to and ask Wonderland related content, you'd be like. I could stand there for an hour and talk to them. Yeah, we know. Like if I ever actually have a question, you're the first person I reach out to. I like Wonderland. There's nothing wrong with it. It's the same reason you like cars. It's the same reason people like music obsess over. Everyone's got that one thing that they're passionate about. Cars, Wonderland. I mean, at the end of the day, Kale, I think I said this to you a bit ago. You were having a really bad day, and you were upset about your passion for Wonderland. And I explained it to you. I said, the reason people like cars is because of how they work. They're cool, right? The sounds, the way they work, how fast they can go. When you really break it down about coasters, guys, it's literally the same thing. It is. No, it was right. I'm not talking about that. Really bring it down. A coaster and how it works and how fast it goes. That adrenaline, it's the same thing. Literally, the reason you like cars is the same way someone can like a coaster. It's the same similarities. I literally, like when Behemoth was testing, like, yeah, I was just standing there just listening to that roar. It's the same way I stand on the side of Jane and watch cars drive by. Exactly. I mean, watch people try and drive cars. It goes room. It goes rumble. Yeah, watch people try and drive cars. It has cool mechanical bits. It has cool mechanical bits. There's a lot of similarities. Now can you put nylon wheels on cars? Can you go into a parking lot and do donuts and cause such a catastrophe that the whole world needs to know? I think Surya did that one time. Julian in the comments also said airplanes, too. Yeah. There's also an overlap between like the public transit people and the coaster people. There's a lot of overlaps between these things. Trains, so trains, like train spotters and stuff, like I guess plane spotters, but trains is a big thing, right? Yep. We're all nerds in similar ways. Let's be honest. Do you know the Cedar Fair? Why someone come in? What's the Cedar Fair lore? The Cedar Fair lore. We have lore. I do think Wonderland's. Oh, I don't know. Oh, Wonderland might have an IP land eventually. Don't say anything. But remember the conversation? Don't say anything. What do you mean, don't say anything? The IP land. IP is like a brand that they work with. So I'm saying that Wonderland might actually have an IP themed area. The Thunder Run kind of is like a subway train. It's a train ride. They were to re-themed Thunder Run. They should re-theme it to a one to a, yeah, the TTC. That'd be cool. Can you imagine the TTC ride in the mountain? You're going to get stabbed on Thunder Run. Perfect. Oh my goodness. Good night, Jake. You're back tomorrow. Yay. Who said he's back tomorrow? Jake said he's back tomorrow. I controlled Jake. So I'm telling him he's back tomorrow, which means he'll be back tomorrow. Yeah, you tell him. Jake, I want you to always remember this. Hydraulics will always be superior. But yeah. More power the better. I think that's all we have to say. We were going to touch on something. We had plans to touch on something. Because there's been like, there's been, there's been Honestly, not even worth it. Yes. Actually, yeah, we won't mention it. Not even the time of day. Yeah. Don't worry. We're good. We're keeping an eye on things. Everyone just has to. We all do our best. We'll do the lightsabers and call it an afternoon. Anyways. I hope everybody enjoyed the podcast. Jasmine was an absolute blast to have you here. A long time, no see. And that's all I have for everybody. Thank you. Want to be back. He's here to stir things up. Well, that's what Jake does. Jasmine's back. Jasmine and I, yeah, I've known Jasmine for ever. And Surya. And then you too, even. Oh my god. I've watched you grow up. Even we were friends before we started hanging out with Surya. Yeah. I wanted to be your friend so bad. I was so pathetic. When I look back at it, I was so pathetic. I used to go up to him and I'd be like, oh, can I hang out with you for the day? And you were nice. You were like, yeah, you can. But I could always tell that I didn't like riding rides. And I would always try and pick Surya's mind. And I would go to him for help even. And Surya was like, I'm just here to ride rides. Because he didn't know me that well. And then over the years, I think it was when you needed help. And I was there for you. I remember the day. We were at the park and I got very unfortunate news. I remember it because they all went to go ride behemoth. And Brendan's like, oh, are you here by yourself? You're usually here with at the time, whatever, my significant other. And I told them all, yeah, you know what? I don't think I'm going to ride behemoth. And Brendan looked at me like shocked because when have I ever turned down a ride? And then they caught off and I'm like, oh no, I need Jesus. Oh, yeah. No, we met early 2018. I remember because we, there was the whole like, everyone thought we were beefing. And even you and I thought we were beefing. And then we got to talking. And it was like, there was no beef. Not at all. As soon as I realized that your audience thought I was like. But we were both making separate construction and update videos is what was happening. And then his audience was like, you're stealing his content. And people that were watching my videos were like, Emma, you're doing the same thing she's doing. And then eventually I came in the Discord, your Discord, because I didn't have one. I came in your Discord and I was like, hey, so we're making similar videos. And we just became friends. And we even filmed a video together at one point. Yeah. It's the rest of his history. I remember we started hanging out every day. And then, oh, it was so sad. I remember when you were moving away, you were just starting to become really close friends, too. And then you moved away. Yeah. And then to be honest, I got super sad when Craig and Surya and everybody else started coming into the picture, because I just felt like I was missing on so much. So it's nice to be able to virtually be together again. Yeah. Surya. It's been a very interesting experience. Yeah, the early days. Oh, those are good times. Honestly, I wouldn't trade it for the end of the week. You know what, here? OK, as bad as something may seem, you honestly need that to make you the person that you're meant to be. I really hope that's true. That's deep. But you know what, though, you are literally one of the nicest people ever, genuinely. You are very misunderstood. And that's not directed anywhere at all. But even I've misunderstood you. You are a really nice person, so don't ever change that. Thank you. OK, I've been around enough crying people for the last little while, so can we like? Craig is not a nice person. No, I'm sick of this shit. Craig is like, you've been a pain in my butt over the years. That's why I'm still here. Yeah. I think we're going to wrap up the podcast right now. Yeah. So thank you so much, guys, for joining us. And we'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.