 What does a prime contractor have to gain hiring a subcontractor with no certification and no federal experience? They're a good company and they can perform the work. Okay. You know, people, and I'm sure Maria would love to tell you about having good versus bad subcontractors right now. She's having a great old experience this week with subs. Maurice, having someone that performs is more important than having someone a certification. Okay. And that's just the bottom line. I tell you all the time, like, I don't care about your certification if you're not going to show up and you're going to come when you feel like it and not do a good job. So how would they know that I'm going to show up? Like, how would they know? Well, you said, what's the benefit? That's what I'm telling you, right? If some people, okay, some people actually already have negative connotations about working with people that are league with certifications. So if in the past, and that's why I always tell people, do not lead with your certifications. Like, that is my advice all the time. Like, listen, I was on Instagram. Someone asked me, Eric, I'm a woman on business. How can you help me? I go, what business are you in? Like, they're so certification driven, they forgot to tell you their business. Think about how silly that sounds. If you would do that anywhere else, you would be like, people would like laugh you off. Like, what are you talking about? I'm a woman on business. How can you help me? I don't know. I'm like, what do you do for a living? Like, what business are you in? So it means people just automatically lead with certifications. And that is the turnoff for a lot of folks out there. And on one of my podcasts with Emily Harmon, who was the director of Navy Office of Small Business, she says a lot of people already have preconceived notions because, first of all, they assume that these programs are for minorities. So right, you go back to the minority program, like giving a handout, like food stamp, like welfare type stuff. So if people have preconceived notions about this handout program already, and that we're just doing this to, for subsidies and to make numbers, they're already apprehensive about it. So that's how they know, right? They don't know for sure because they never tried you. But again, it's just like all of us out here, right? People have preconceived notions about us without, just by looking at us. So I always tell folks, lead with value. What do you offer? What can you do for me? Right? What is your skill set? What is your expertise? Hey, I've, like my man, Chieftain said, hey, I just did 15 banks jobs. I just performed for 15 banks for Bank of America. And you know how stringent they are. If I could do 15 banks cleaning within a week, I could do your federal building. Oh, and by the way, I happen to be woman owned certified. When I talk, this is exactly what I say. I say, we're a good company first. That happens to be a small business. I'd never lead with, I'm a 8A, I'm a this and that. I never lead with that stuff. I always lead with, oh, your project is over here. We did a similar project to that right over here down the street at this particular, at the Barclays Center. We did something exactly like that same size, same scope. We work with this company. In fact, we've got two referrals. They were so happy with us. They said that we exceeded their expectations. We kicked, but we brought in the windows early. We delivered on time and we didn't charge any extra money. Oh, by the way, and we happen to be a small business. All right, I got it. That's the difference. Okay. That's the difference. So many, if you go in and people will tell you this, you go in and say, oh, I'm an 8A business. Somebody might be like, I'm going to hear a story. They're waiting for you to come. Now, here come a story again. Right? It's like, here come the story. I'm an 8A business. All right, I got it. They might just tune you off, Maurice. And may not hear anything else you say. All right. Just get me just because of the way that you approach them. Like you're basically saying you're supposed to give me, because a lot of people think you're supposed to give them something because they're 8A or women-owned, right? So they're in their brains. They're like, oh, this guy's coming here asking for a handout because he's 8A. I see that. And you don't want them to think that above you. Like, no, no, no. Hey, I've done my market research. I've studied your particular agency. I know what you buy. I know some of the challenges you have. And I think we can help you with some of those challenges. And if being a woman on business helps, you know, we'll throw that into the mix. All right. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. And then, by the way, that's an excellent question because so many people think or they're under the impression that you have to have. We've even had people call Maria that thought that they could not do government contracts unless they had 8A. As crazy as that seems. So I don't know who's teaching folks, but they thought that they could not get a government contract unless they were 8A certified. And by the way, Maurice, I remind everyone out here listening, 23% goes to small businesses. That's not the big piece of the pie. I don't know why people are so infatuated with such a small, like that's not the big piece of the pie. No one ever talks about what about the other 77%? We are so infatuated with the small piece of the pie. That is just crazy. All right. I'll hear you. But that's what it is. By the way, kind of FYI, so I'll tell you something just kind of piggyback off of that. I'll do me just say those p-tax be pushing 8A. Yeah. Just something really that kind of piggyback enough what you just said. I literally, so Saturday, I'll tell you guys the story. And then I'll let Jeffrey ask you a question next. So the 8A company that we're working with up in Boston, we're already been loading them up with work. So they're already getting like high in numbers. And we're wanting to, we're trying to find some other 8As up there. And so Saturday, I was looking, one of my podcast guests, I was reading his profile, and they are a tribal company. And I saw that their tribal company literally connected with small business to do IT Stars 2 contract. So the IT Stars 2 is like 22 billion. And I saw that they did a joint venture with a small firm to do the IT Stars 2. So I, you know, me crazy old Eric just sitting back thinking, I wonder if this guy would do a joint venture with me. So I sent him an email and I said, hey, I work really closely with a company up in Rhode Island that does construction. We're looking to do a joint venture with the 8A. I saw that you did another joint venture with another 8A for IT. Would you do something like that for construction? And I said, by the way, here's my cell phone, you know, call me and anything. So the guy calls me in 10 minutes. And I'm like, hey, you know, it's Saturday, right? He goes, no, I just got your email. I want to call you back. I got it 10 minutes ago. And he was like, absolutely, yes, we would love to do a joint venture. I love joint ventures. He goes, when can we set up a call to talk about it? And he's a tribal 8A. They have $25 million single limit bonding. They have no limit sole source. So they can sole source up to any amount. They could do $100 million in 8A program. They're in their also hub zone. And so when you ask about why do people want to partner with small businesses because they're looking for good companies to work with. He's not coming to me for certifications. He has certifications. He's coming to us because we're a good company. And we can leverage his certifications to grow. And he's got the money, past performance, and something that none of us could even buy. And so that's why I always tell people that you don't need certifications because look, I have no certifications and I can do a joint venture with a tribal LA and have the highest small business certification that even exists on the planet, which is tribal or Alaska native. Nothing trumps that. That's like DUSA Diamond, DUSA Spade, right? That's, hey, you got a stacked deck. So anyone could do it. Anyone of us could do it. Honestly, anyone else could do it. So there you go. Click the join button now to find out about all of the different membership options. You can start off as a fan supporter and move your way all the way up to a GovCon Insider.