 Hello, everyone. Welcome. I'm Carol Hinkle president of triple E. I would love to welcome you to this our second lecture of the spring series who knew. So I'd love to have Michael or landscape our program committee now introduced today's speaker, Michael. Okay. Thank you Carol. Today, we're very pleased and honored to welcome Dr. Benjamin Ola Akhande. Lane College. Dr. Akhande is a prominent economist, educator and global consultant. Before coming to Champlain last year he was the assistant vice chancellor of international programs for Africa and associate director of the Global Health Center. At Washington University, St. Louis. Also in Missouri, Dr. Akhande served as president of Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri, and at Webster University, where he was professor of economics and Dean of the George Herbert Walker School of Business and Technology. Dr. Akhande, a Nigerian American citizen, earned his PhD in economics at the University of Oklahoma. He did his post doctoral studies at Harvard's John F Kennedy School of Government, and at Said Business School at the University of Oxford in England. With his academic posts. Dr. Akhande has been a board member and consultant to many well known corporations and nonprofit institutions in the US and abroad. When Dr. Akhande was selected as president of Champlain College, former colleague Dr. Mark writing the distinguished longtime Chancellor of Washington University offered these thoughts and I quote it. I've known Benjamin for many years and he is a St. Louis treasure, who can creatively tackle the major challenges that now confront colleges and universities. He is an excellent communicator, a consensus builder, and sensitive to all in the community he serves, and quote. Finally, the title of today's lecture will be leading in a post COVID-19 world challenges and opportunities. We thank Sandy us and director of communications and external relations at Champlain for her support. Sandy, who many of you know is with us today, and will assist Dr. Akhande by reading your questions allowed in the q amp a period. In any case, you can type questions into the q amp a window at any time during the lecture. Executive assistant to the president. Now please join me in welcoming President Benjamin Ola Akhande of Champlain College. Thank you. Hello Michael. My introduction. I really appreciate it I, I do consider it an honor to to be here today and I definitely look forward to the opportunity to to be able to speak to you all today it's it's it's indeed truly an honor to be here. I would like to bring put my presentation on on the screen right now and I think we should be able to to move forward on that. Yeah, great. One of the most important and most challenging thing about COVID-19 pandemic is that it, it is an equal opportunity pandemic. The pandemic that that impacted literally every single person on earth. If you lived on earth. You're impacted by COVID. And if you think about that, there are very few ever instances of anything where all of us were impacted. Initially, we didn't really know the provasiveness of this pandemic we didn't understand how negative it will be we we failed to recognize how difficult it will make life for us. And it was, it was sort of like a, like an unexpected right hook that showed up and when we, when it hit us, it knocked us out. We were simply on the on the on the ground trying to recover from this unexpected right hook. And I think in so many instances. Many of us decided that you know what we're just going to stay down. We're going to wait this out. And perhaps maybe in a kick in a couple of months, we'll be back to normal again. And in the case it's been very interesting because from a pervasive perspective. It has essentially continued. It has been one that continues to show us and to give us different avenues of impact on a daily basis and we could have taught perhaps maybe just a couple of weeks ago. That just when we thought okay we had the new vaccines taking place that all of a sudden we got this new variants, variant of this, or this pandemic showing up they call it the South African doing that is more contagious, and perhaps even more deadly. And so it makes the question. What are you doing in the midst of COVID-19, you know, in this on the screen I asked the question what is your business doing but I think the reality is that, what are you doing in the midst of COVID-19. And, and as you think about how we navigate this very interesting pandemic. I think the most important aspect to this is, what are we going to do differently. When this is all said and done. And I think that while we're still standing in the midst of COVID that we're relevant that we're not less of who we are, or we were before COVID that indeed moving forward that we are stronger, that we are more resilient, and that we're, we're ready. And so in my next slide I talk about the fact that I think this is a very important decision process for all of us. And, and I think that one thing that is very clear to us is that whatever future we imagine pre COVID-19. That future isn't what it used to be. But whatever future we envision, you know, and usually part of to COVID-19, it was simply the same of everything. You know the same challenges that we felt from an economic cyclical perspective, the same challenges that we felt from a political perspective. It was, it was pretty much predictable. But because of COVID-19, the future is no longer predictable. And that's hard on us because what it means is that we have to be ready to do something that humans don't like to do on a regular basis. And that is to change. And in fact, I've come to the conclusion that the only person that likes change is a white baby. Because what what changed us to us is that change really just really ruffles us up it, it forces us to, to get out of our comfort zone it, it simply pushes us to try new things. It makes life unimaginably unimaginably uncomfortable for us. And so when we know this, I think it was put probably better in context through in McKinsey briefing sometime last year, where they talked about the, the five hours. And in the five hours they talked about having a sense of resolve, and that is sort of being comfortable with addressing whatever challenges is in front of you. And also having a sense of resilience, you know, to show that you're, you're not going to go away that you're not going to lay down that you're going to find a way to confront this to find a way out. You know, what are we going to do to cure our sick, what are we going to do to take care of our young, what are we going to do to make sure that we don't continue to lose people to this crazy pandemic. And what are we going to do to make sure that at the end of the day that our businesses have a sense of resilience. And while we're doing all this, how do we return back to normal, because that normalcy is now something that is a constant for us we we've got to find a way not just to be going back to the way we did this but basically do to doing it better. And while we're doing all these things, how can we reimagine a new future for ourselves. How can we find new opportunities for ourselves. And while we're reimagining because we imagine some of the most difficult things to do because when you're reimagining, you're being asked to essentially transform yourself you've been asked to, to try new things and we're saying essentially that that's what the times call for. And if we do it well, if we do it well, you know, the challenge for us is that we're able to not only reimagine but to also reform ourselves to try something better to be better to be stronger. And I think that these are very, very important and very critical things that we need to think about. And I think it's, it's important to ask the question. That, how do we become more relevant in a post COVID world. What does what does relevance means. And I share with you the way I see it. You know, when we're relevant, that means that we'll have an impact. When we're relevant, it means that we're, we're being able to handle the different theories that this challenge brings us when we're relevant. It shows that we're not going to go away. And I think that the way we can remain relevant is to have what I call a cohesive response to the new challenges we face. I mean, when you think about sort of having having that cohesive response, some of the things that that comes to mind is that do we, you know, we understand that cohesive response means that we can't handle the future by ourselves, we need to find partners, we need to lean on others, we need to listen attentively to new ideas. We have to have cohesive responses that we have to be willing to change before we have to co cohesive response mean that we have to be open to the idea of doing things very differently co cohesive response means that we don't have to be leaders all the time sometimes, perhaps, more importantly, this time that we need to be really good followers. And then we would also be finding ways to, to look at pivoting in this very unique period of time, because if we don't do that. And then we become victims of COVID, and then we become the relevant. And so my next slide speaks to the fact that in doing all these things. I think there are a couple of things that I want you all to take a look at. Because when we, when we think about the post COVID competitive landscape, a couple of things have changed for us. And, you know, the first one is that we're going to see what I would characterize as sort of an intense competitive environment. So the proliferation of consumer choices that are going to challenge existing brands, we're going to see people introduce new products, new services that didn't have a chance of existing prior to COVID, all of a sudden show up. I was talking to a friend of mine in St. Louis just the other day. He was telling me that this company has had a remarkable success during COVID and I asked him, I said, Well, what, what are you guys doing? And he said, Well, we've simply shifted our production to healthcare products, because we think that even post COVID, these things are going to be critical. And that our demand is not just here in the United States, we're seeing a significant demand overseas. And this was just a consumer product company less than nine months ago that sort of shifted to to a particular new area. We're going to see what we in economics characterizes flat markets and price in elasticity, because what, what that means essentially is that people are going to be able to charge prices that are probably a little higher than usual, and be able to get away with it. And because they knew that the demand for those products are, are there are necessary. And so we have to be ready for that. And then we're also going to start seeing the emergence of what I would, what I would characterize as, you know, offerings or products that are going to show up literally overnight. And if you thought you had a market position where you were a leader. Yesterday, that could be taken away from you tomorrow, and it could be taken away from you from a company that you've never heard of, or a company that was just established last week. That that's that's the level of competitiveness that we're going to see. And I think the last one I think from a timing perspective is we're going to begin to see emerging competition with capacity to move quickly. And so well, that they will change the game for us literally overnight. This is going to be what I call the new Kobe landscape. And those are kids that did not exist. Those are things that did not matter. Just a few, a few months ago. And so when I when I when I want to show you. There's a very interesting slide and I'm going to go through this one step by the time and the first step, the first step. We go back one, the first step here is what I call the pre called it America, which is essentially we will live in life. As if there was no problem and we were running our organizations as if there was really no that tomorrow wasn't going to change. We find ourselves in so many positions as where our companies were sort of increasing at an increasing rate every year meant that we could gain delta that we would increase our productivity, increase our deliverables. It was great times. There's this top market in America was was doing great. I think to an extent because we had a significant level of read or deregulation. And, and this will flow in really well. But just like that, everything changed. And so we find ourselves in what I call the second step, which is my next point here, which I call the now, which essentially represents the eye of the storm. And the now is very interesting to us because the now is so unpredictable. The now doesn't really give us any kind of assurance that that there's a real future that's going to be good for us. We find ourselves in the quagmire essentially. And so I characterize this as being in the eye of the storm. And being in the eye of the storm, meaning that there's a there's a definitive level of unpredictability. And so what do you what do you do if you find yourself in the now. There are a couple of options if you're an organization, you just ride the wave and hope to God that everything works out. Or you try to determine your own future your own, your own, your own, your own legacy by by doing something about it. Or do you find partners where you decide you know I can't go at this alone I I need to collaborate with others you know we we characterize as as mergers acquisitions, you know teaming up in a way that will provide strength and capacity for you for a business perspective. But I think that my perspective is that one thing that we can't afford to do is to give up. And so I've introduced the next stage, which I called the second curve. And in this graph, you will notice that in that second curve, that second curve is is transformational that second curve tells you that we're not going to give up that second curve to again about this issue of resiliency transformation capacity in innovation and and how do you get to that second curve. We miss you have to do a couple of things differently. It means you've got to expand your relationships. It means that you've got to embrace new technology. It means that you got to get better at the things that you don't know well. And it means that you've got to look at the possibility of creating a new business model. And if you if you do all these things, and then you, you, you actually position yourself to flourish in a post COVID America. And that's essentially what we want to do and you know the second curve applies not just to organizations and industry. It applies to individuals. Do we learn to enhance and to embrace new technology. Do we do we find ways to to engender and to expand our knowledge base. Do we try new things that may challenge us before but we know it's necessary. I really believe that this particular graph is a very significant depiction of what we need to do. And it is that we need to pay attention to in a post COVID America whether we're individuals, or whether we find ourselves in a position as organizational And then in my in my next graph I, I talk about the chance that one of the things that we need to be asking ourselves is that in the post COVID world. Do we still matter on those things that matter to our customers. Do we do we matter on the things that they consider important. Now, the things that they considered important a year ago is not what they consider important now. Because today what they consider important is they want responsiveness. They want honesty they want candor they want humanity they want flexibility they want trust. They want compassion. They want flexibility. And so those are the things that matter to customers to people now. Maybe they were not on the top list a few months ago but surely they are now they want safety. They want to focus on on medical awareness. And so the question we need to ask ourselves is do we still do we still matter on those things that matter now. And I think that the answer to that question depends on the individuals in terms of what business you're in. And it brings me to to my next slide. I think that this is a very important slide because I think that the way that you, you define whether you matter or not is asking you to ask yourself the question. Am I am I relevant, or am I irrelevant. And let me let me tell you I would answer that question. You know, for me. If, if you're irrelevant. It means that you're, you're, you're losing your customers. You're losing your, you're, you're, you're losing your impact that you are gradually sort of moving yourself into a, what I will call a state of auspice. And if I can use that term. Because one of the things that I've noticed lately probably in the last 10 years for me and trying to visit in my, my friends and loved ones in auspice is that whenever I go visit them. You want to make it a happy moment. You want to make it a very important moment. You want to make it memorable for those that are in auspices so you don't talk about all the bad stuff. All the good stuff. You talk about the happiness that the important occasions that you had 10 years ago and how great things were 30 years ago about how everything worked out. Even maybe last year, because what you don't talk about with somebody in hospice is you don't talk about tomorrow. And so organizations that find themselves in a state of auspice are simply talking about their past. Because either they're not willing to or they believe that perhaps the tomorrow is not going to be a good one so they're stuck in the past. And it's important that we don't find ourselves in that situation that we think about a buoyant future that we we dare to to challenge ourselves about the day after tomorrow that we don't give up. And because when you become irrelevant. It means that you're just not there anymore. That you're not thinking about beyond today anymore that you've essentially given up. It brings me to my next slide. I think it's a very important one. And I think that we all need to participate in the process of auditing our relevance. And in order to not relevance it means that we've got to identify the most important and urgent issues and opportunities to our clients and to and to assert what has changed. And I think when we when we do an all of a relevance audit, it means that we need to gauge how effective our lives our product our services help serve issues that are important to the people that we serve to the to the clients that we have. And in doing an audit relevance that we, we seek to find opportunities to create blue ocean, which is basically between, you know, trying to figure out where do we go next. Where do we go next where we are able to create a competitive landscape between our organization and the competition. Blue ocean moves you forward blue oceans enables you to do things that you've never done before blue blue ocean is not about copying somebody's best practice blue ocean is essentially creating your own next practice, what does not exist. And so I really believe that auditing relevance is an important practical consistent practice that we all need to do in our respective place in our respective work. I think that we would we need to ask ourselves a question. How will we accelerate a push to relevance in a postcode 19 world. I think it begins with Alvin strategy. And that is that our capacity to reenter to be ready to go to be ready to deal with a new normal the challenges that we face to know that status quo is not acceptable. I mean status quo for me could be a very comfortable place. But nothing happens in that place to be ready to challenge ourselves even more, more so than ever. And so that brings me to my next, my next slide. I said. Hello, we're just trying to figure out what's going on there. My next that basically says that to be relevant in a in a post COVID era, you've got to do a couple of things well. One, you've got to understand and appreciate that the future belongs to those that are change ready. Those that are willing to become just like a baby and be willing to to change and to change often, if necessary. Secondly, to understand that the best opportunities are visible but not seen. And that you've got to not expect to those opportunities that present itself may not be may not be as as visible as you think. And sometimes I think about the fact that, you know, when you're looking to find those opportunities you got to sometimes create them. And I think the third point I was making here is that the future isn't a place that we're going that the future is a place that we will create. And the fourth point is that this is the best time in our lives to identify our next practice. Now you will, you will notice I didn't say identify it. The best practice because best practice means it's already been done. It means that we'll just copy what somebody else has done. It's that having the courage and the audacity to do what nobody else has ever done before. And it's not easy. It's quite challenging. But I think in the times that we find ourselves we need more creative endeavors. We need, we need more pioneers. We need more people that are willing to say I'm going to try something here to solve a problem to create opportunity to rise above the element. And then the last point I want to make on this slide is that for us to be able to do all these things I think it's important that we develop the capacity to see around corner. Well, you got to have the courage to even look. You have to have the strength and capacity to, to face up with what's around that corner because usually what's around that corner something different something new, something scary something challenging. But then by developing the capacity and the willingness to constantly look around the corner. You're not scared of what you see and whatever that corner presents to you. You, you, you find a way to meet it adds on, not to turn around and run away from it, not to hide from it, but to find a way to solve it. And I think that's what is going to be required of us in in a post coded world. And then my next slide I think speaks to something very important. And that is that, and I said this earlier on, we've got to find partners. We've got to find what needs to be done by ourselves. And, and I think for us as champagne what we're saying to you is that as you think about your next step, whether it's going back to school, whether it's a business proposition, whether it's re re re looking at your business plan. If anyone wants to help you meet those needs. We want to do it as co creators. We believe that we have the diversity of perspective to be able to help you in whatever way that you need to be assisted, and that we can essentially do it together. So I'm going to try to think about one of the ways where the opportunities where Champlain College can become a co creator with you. I end with this. I think that the future. Our future is going to depend on our ability to to collaborate with each other is going to depend on our capacity to embrace new people in our communities. It's going to depend on our willingness to work with people that we probably didn't know last year, or probably we never really. We've never really gotten to know them, but we've got to trust our instincts and to be open to the idea of partnership and collaboration. I, I, I end with this very interesting story. When I moved to San Luis in the summer of 2000. I was coming from Texas, West Texas. And we lived in Texas probably about, about 10 years before that, and made a lot of friends and sort of essentially we could say at that time that my kin folks lived in Texas because a lot of my family members and moved to Texas as well. And I remember moving to San Luis, and the big city of San Luis and with the gateway arch and the Mississippi. And I was told back then that Benjamin one of the key questions that people are going to constantly ask you in San Luis is what school did you go to. Tell me that be very careful because that question is not as obvious as you think it is because when they asked you what school you attended they're not talking about what university you attended. They're not talking about where you got your degree. They're asking you what high school did you go to. Because that question is very material to try to figure out whether you're from here. And so I was prepared. And so the first time, really within weeks of moving to San Luis. I was at a function. And somebody walked up to me and said, you know, Benjamin is, you know, it's good to meet you sit down what what school did you go to Benjamin. And I said, Well, I'm not from here I, I just got here but I got here as quick as I could. And he said, Hey guys for us and we and he laughed and he laughed and he said, Well, yeah, you know, Benjamin up. Great. And he said, you know, what I'm actually asking you is by asking you that question I could figure out whether you're from here. And most importantly, what part of the community you live. You're broken down into different suburbs. And so if you say you live in town and country that means that basically that there's a good possibility that your, your home is somewhere in the neighborhood of about, you know, about $750,000 to about $20 million. And if you say you live in the do it means that it's probably probably equally Yorkton. And if you need to live in works of growth, I mean they could essentially sort of place you based on where you live. And so what I did was I devised a method to, to ask the question before being asked. And whatever answer they gave me, I would then say to them, I just got here. And I'm glad I'm here. And I want to make a difference while I'm here. And I'll do my best to earn that 20 years later. I, I, I go to San Luis and I was able to visit the other day and somebody walked out to me, complete stranger. And he said, you know, you don't sound good. He said, what, what, what, so what ice cream did you go to? And I said, why don't you go to high school here? And he said, well, if you had gone to high school, you know, Benjamin, what high school would you have attended? And I never heard that one before. And I said, really? You want me to sort of take a guess what high school I would have guessed? And I said, well, you know, if I'd gone to high school, I would have attended Mary Institute Country Day, which is one of the top schools, high schools in the San Luis area. It's a private day school. And he said, Benjamin, how did you come up with that? I said, did you, do you live in Ladoo? I said, well, I, I did what I was there in San Luis, but I'm no longer here. I live in Vermont now. And he said, well, how did you come up with Mary Institute Country Day? I said, well, I came up with Mary Institute Country Day because three of my daughters went to school there. They graduated from there. I was on their board of trustees for six years. I enjoyed watching their football team. I raised the very best of that institution. And I paid tuition for what was close to about 12 years. Private school tuition. And it was a laughing moment. And then we just used that to move on and talk about other things and the other things that we had in common and the opportunities that lay ahead for us. And also gave me an opportunity to talk a little bit about my new home in Burlington, Vermont. When we seek to think about the future, I asked that if opportunity doesn't knock that we actually build a door, enable that opportunity to find that knock so that we can open that door and welcome those opportunities. I am, I am glad I had this opportunity to visit with you on this afternoon. But I welcome your questions and your comments. Thank you so much for having me. Michael, are we ready for questions? Yes, we are standing. Okay, terrific. Well, I appreciate that looks like we do have some some questions and please do add your questions to the Q&A. Thank you so much for your question. President Khande comes from Jan, who is pointing out that that many of the folks in the audience are retirees and wondering how you would recommend auditing relevance for those folks. I think the way to audit relevance is to think about how this pandemic has changed your life. Perhaps it's because I think for a lot of retirees and my, you know, my mom is almost 90 and my dad passed away in September he was 94. What COVID did for them is that it really reduced their mobility, and it reduced their access access to their kids access to their grandkids access to their friends, and it became it became a very lonely existence for them. For retirees, I would, I would think about the fact that this is probably a good opportunity to stop thinking about a new hobby, and, and how we might want to do something completely different than you haven't done before and maybe that that hobby I think for for me would be, would be trying something that you've never done before and it was it's just like trying to introduce for the concept of gaming, and, and the mobility of gaming to, and to travel around the world to see places that you've been able to even imagine that you would have a chance to visit. And it's also a chance for, for, for making the best of the zoom in. I remember when I first got to Champlain, and I was trying to introduce myself in this community, and the challenge for me was, how do I do that. When I can't meet people face to face. And so we came up with the concept of wine and cheese via zoom. And what we would have wine and cheese via zoom and what we would do is we're actually will send a bottle of wine to my guest, and we sometimes it was even chilled. And, and then at six o'clock when the, when the call starts we would go on zoom and we will start out by by pouring the wine into them into the glass and then we would toast each other to start the conversation and we have some wonderful discussions. And we would tell stories. And I grew up in the African tradition of storytelling, because we did not have access to television all the time because there was no electricity. We didn't have access to movies. And so we just told, we told stories. And I, and that's where your imagination is challenged. And I think, you know, you retire this is a chance for you to to reconnect by telling some wonderful stories to the next generation stories that have happy endings and stories that don't have happy and this but they have messages, and which you can extract takeaways from the stories. I think this this is the time for you to share your wisdom with the next generation to, to let us know the things that we should remember. The things that we need to learn from our from our past. And I think that our, our older generation, they, they could be a remarkable opportunity for us to be able to do that in the midst of this cold. And then to, to stay healthy by by making sure that even though you may not be able to go out as much but to be able to walk around the house more and to walk around the yard more and to, to do this regular exercises. I think those are very important that will keep us vibrant and keep us engaged. Thank you. Another question. So this is how, how does some of this apply to Champlain and specifically what changes do you envision at Champlain College post pandemic. You know, for us, what we did post pandemic is that we, we, we introduced one of the key aspects called flex hybrid. And for us, the flex hybrid was our way of enabling our students to be able to, to do two things to be able to come back face to face or to come back through, through a virtual reality very similar to this. And what that does is it provided duality of options for not just our students, but also our faculty. And we made it happen in real time, where faculty is able to teach from their respective homes, or they can teach from their classes in an empty class. And I think that flex hybrid for us was an important pivot moment, but what it also did for us is that it positioned us for, for the future post COVID, because I think that in the future post COVID, the ability to be able to go to school in so many formats is going to be important, and to do it in a way that is as real as being there is also very critical. And that's one of the key important aspects for us. Secondly, we took very seriously the notion of, of safety and health, not just for our students, faculty and staff, but for our community. And so we put in a very stringent COVID response strategy that then laid out what we consider responsible living that that pretty encouraged our students to be good citizens of this community. Secondly, we also made sure that we had a very significant regiment of testing, weekly testing that ensure that if you are on campus and you are attending classes on campus that we, we demanded and we requested that you test every week. And that allowed us to be able to monitor possible spread of the pandemic. And I think it really turned out for us because we were able to have some of the lowest positivity rate. It was, it was also good because it was our positivity rate was lower than Vermont. And Vermont was one of the, one of the best states in the country when it came to positivity rates. And so I think from, from, from Champlain's perspective, that was that was our response that turned out pretty, pretty effectively. I think that the lessons from that is for us not to take anything from granted for us to work out those challenges that life present us. We may not have it, we may not have a choice what cards were dealt. But what we have a choice in is how we play it. And we played it for the safety of our faculty staff and students over the safety of our community. And that was very important to us. And I think for us, we're also looking out for isolation for our students we want to make sure from a mental health perspective that we paid attention to them. Because you know this generation is, is very interactive generation but when they're, when there's, when they, when they're isolated. And that's when really bad things happen. And so how do we make sure that we don't isolate them that we keep them fully engaged. And, and I think that's been one of the big, big challenges and opportunities for us in this, in this crisis. I have another question that has come up in, in the Q&A which is, as colleges and universities reimagine themselves to adapt to COVID-19 by increasing remote instruction. Do we foresee that the more personal aspects of the college experience, such as living and interacting with fellow students could be diminished or lost. So you've touched on some of that but maybe you can expand on that a little bit. And finally, I don't think the personal touch is diminished. It's just delayed. So what do we do in the meantime. And how do we use this, this crisis as a way to find other means of engaging each other and what we did. In, in, in Jack Champlain is one of our faculty members, Dr. Nareen Hall, created this concept called in space that allowed us to, to be able to interact and navigate in, in space in sort of an expanded or advanced to zoom experience where you, you can walk into a room, walk into a classroom, look to the left and look to the right and see who's sitting next to you in class and look up front and see your teacher and be able to move around in the classroom. That's that that the crisis led to that invention for, and I think that's critical. And I think that how do we use this crisis as a moment in time to invent to recreate to reimagine to be resilient. You know that's that's what we've started to do so yeah I think that interaction is delayed, but it's not completely out of the picture. And we've got to find a way to find other means to be able to engage each other in the meantime. And I think that's going to demand a level of creativity for all of us. Great, there's a question about whether Champlain has had more international or more very distant students during the pandemic. We can talk about some of our study abroad programs of course that the pandemic has. Sure, I think one of the things that COVID is done is basically essentially close the borders. Because people can't travel across borders like they used to maybe even the Canadian border which is just really next door has been shut down. And so, how do we continue to engage and provide experiences where we have to do it through virtuality. We've done our campuses in Montreal and campuses in Dublin. I've had to experience that, but that that has not kept us from being able to deliver really, really good curriculum and really good outcomes. And so we, we basically paused, you know, sort of that international aspect there because because of health regulations and so forth and so on. I think moving forward. I do make sure that our institution continues to have relevance and international engagement post COVID. Well, it means that we got to understand that maybe we're not going to be able to have this face to face for some time. So we need to find other avenues for you for us to use this as a pivot moment. And to be creative and innovative and at the same time. And I think that's essentially what's going on right now with all of us, all our educational institutions that have had international students attend our schools. This is a question and a comment I think together but it's, have we not adopted an embrace change already the way our children are educated now educated as just one example. The consistency of change. We've embraced change because we've had to. We've had no choices when they when they cut when they close down the schools and said the kids will go to school online. There's no choice. And when you embrace tree when there's no choice, it's even more challenging. But that's essentially what has happened. You know, so what do we, what do we need to do differently. I think that we need to become, you know, so open the valve for change and be welcome and welcome that possibility, because that's going to be a constant that's going to be a consistency for us moving forward. Change is going to continue to show up on a regular basis for us, and we have to be prepared and ready to to embrace it to confront it. So this question is what future is available in liberal arts programs. And I know, you know, we have a really unique approach to liberal arts and general education through our core program that you can talk about. You know, for us. We're, we're, we are an institution as a professional schools but that's a real appreciation for liberal arts. I think the future for liberal arts program. We are developing curriculum that are not singly focused on one area. I think the future for us is we're looking at sort of creating what we call an interdisciplinary array of programs where the majors that we will create moving into the future. The ones that we're creating even now are programs that allow our students to be able to do different things as life moves on. They're not just confined to a specific area. And I think the liberal arts is going to have to borrow that page as well be because what what you graduate in today may be maybe absolutely tomorrow. So the best way to do it is to make sure that you, you pick a program that has a variety area of outlets and opportunities and so as life changes, you can change with it. And we're having to go back to school. And so our perspective is to, is to look at that discipline of curriculum creation that is that is sort of transitional. And, and what we're doing is that we're already creating programs that reflect that. You know, for, for instance, we just announced just a few weeks ago, they a new program called apps development. Apps development is essentially we're saying that moving into the future apps are going to be doing nearly everything for us. And so how do we prepare for that future. How can we be empowered to create that future. And I think that's, that's going to be the real challenge for us moving forward. And that's why the creation of these concepts. And these, these perspectives will, will enable our students committee, degrees to be to be relevant way way way into the future. And I think that's, that's actually necessary. And then those, those, those regular skill sets, the ability to communicate the ability to to lead others. The ability to, to, to articulate a position and to get others to listen and consequently to buy in, you know, the ability to embrace others that may look different than you. They may have an accent that may not be from your neighborhood. They may not be from Vermont. I have to say that you guys were the most challenging situations for me as president of Champlain. Over the last six or seven months, eight months is the loneliness that that COVID has created and the inability to be able to meet anybody to be able to get to know people. For someone like myself to basically build my career on engaging people. Whether it was when I was in Oklahoma when I was in Texas or when I was in Missouri. That's been a challenge for me personally, because we've all been isolated. And in a community that is really seeking to embrace diversity inclusion. It's, it was, it was sort of an missed opportunity. How do we do that better? How do we bring people that are new to this community? How do we find a way to embrace them? I think those would be for the challenging questions and things that we need to think about. That actually leads into another question that was asked in reimagining higher education institutions during COVID. How can we ensure that students from historically marginalized and economically disadvantaged backgrounds are fully and fairly included. First of all, you got to give them the opportunity to be here. How do you ensure that you recruit them? Because I think what we have here is that, you know, Vermont is, is a unique state. And so with very little diversity, I think, and so how do you convince people to come here? Because it's just not getting there as sufficient. It's feeling that you're welcome here. We are actually willing to listen to you that they are not going to come to any conclusion and that you would be embraced with all the mightiness and beauty of this place. I think this is this community is a beautiful place. It's a wonderful place with so many attractions. And I think that we need to make an extra effort to try to welcome students there from very diverse backgrounds by being a warm place, by being a place that embraces them. And I really believe that's going to be the best way to do that. It's not going to be easy. No, it's going to be challenging. Yes, but I think it's actually doable. There is a question have more students from afar enrolled in at Champlain to study in your programs online. Have more students from afar enrolled at Champlain to study in your programs online. And I'm thinking maybe this is, you know, Champlain College online where students are from really all over the world. The answer to that question is yes, we've seen an increase in students coming to come into Champlain from far distances. And in essence, that was the reason for the creation of Champlain College online to give us a chance to have a reach that is way beyond Burlington. And we've been very successful at that. But most importantly, we've continually created new programs certificate badges that reflect what the market needs. One of the key aspects of the pandemic is just the recession that followed. And there's so many people lost their jobs. And so our Champlain College online has been an opportunity for students to the adult students to basically re engage to come back to classes to to pick up certificates to to pick up courses that essentially positions them for for future success. And we've seen we've seen that number gradually rise over over a period of time over the last six or seven months. And I think to an extent, the reason for that is because of the economic changes but more importantly, our ability to have our faculty and staff and leadership to have our Champlain College online to be responsive to the changing marketplace. I think I saw to them because they, they recognize the importance of pivoting of changing in the midst of of COVID. The last question I have here and again I encourage folks to put their questions into the Q&A is what is the level of learning during remote learning as a as compared to active engagement. So back to that, Howard, our students experiencing remote learning. Well, you know, I think you have to look at two generations there. The younger generation, the 18 and 22 years, they're very comfortable with, with being able to navigate internet and to navigate simulations and games and because that's we brought them up in that environment for them. Wi-Fi is an oxygen that they need without it, they can't, they can't survive, and they've learned to live with it. And, and so they're, they're navigating this, this moment uniquely. I think the challenge for them is that they were able to simply step away from it, step away from this. So for them it was a, it was an escape, but now it's become reality. And now the escape is to be able to move from that, that virtuality to, to what used to be their day to day. And how do we make sure that we balance that? How do we make sure that that, that they don't find themselves confined or isolated, that there's a new balance of sorts. And I think that we're also trying to, trying to find new and creative ways of teaching and learning and, and making it sure so that it's not, it's not just from eight o'clock to five o'clock that it's a continuous process throughout, throughout the day. And, and, and the ability to be engaged anytime, anywhere, any place. I think that's interesting. I think that's creative. And I think that's, we'll see more and more of that as, as, as we move forward in the post COVID America. Thank you. And those are the questions that we have, unless anybody has any other questions they would like to raise. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Condi. This was wonderful to be able to see past the end of this. We're all looking forward to that. I want to wish you and all the viewers a very, very happy Valentine's Day. Thank you so much, which in every one of you guys are very happy Valentine's Day and eat lots of cookies and give out some candies and give out some virtual hugs to all those that you love and, and so I thank you all for the opportunity to be with you this afternoon. Thank you for having me and God bless. Thank you. Thank you.