 But what are you saying about Achilles Achilles if you were I I get curious about like headshots and video games Sort of with the same concept where if you are Achilles and you're running around Troy or wherever you you know, haven't you haven't gale time, right? Everything's great. Yes running around. I'm so great I'm so great. Look at my meridons aren't they beautiful and you get shot with an arrow But it hits it comes in from the front, right? So like maybe from the top so an arrow comes down and enters your foot from the top And then comes out of the heel on the back side. Does that count? Oh Out of the body did it hit first It hit the it hit the top of the foot and then it went through the heel through the back Must still count. I'm sure they don't say if you're shot through the you know All parts of the body that are included along the way by like a rail gun I think you'd be that's what people would say, right? You shot through all those things Yeah, if it hits your Achilles, yeah, even if it is from the back like if you wish If you was Speared through the ass all the way up into the skull. I think you would still count a big speed through the skull, you know You know, I don't know. I don't know usually people when people say they were shot in something like that Shot in their heart or shot in the head They're always referring to the part in which the projectile hits first and so all right Let's push this to the furthest degree. Okay. Yeah, someone's aiming at you from top down birds I've used they shoot it and enters the head goes through the body through the leg all the way through They liked completely straight and then out the heel at the back end But I think people would say at first he was shot in the head I think I think locally right organ like you said shot in the heart not shot in the chest So isn't it the most fatal thing that gets hit? That's probably true actually are Good good point good point like whatever the most vital super seeds all the other parts Like the bit that kills you what if you shot from the heart up through into the brain? Which you choose to say all vice versa? Searching it forgot a gun inside you Wow What if what if you was shot in the penis and then it went through the heart and then through the head I Think you won't go on the deck because it's the primary weapon They shot in the deck that's yeah, you're not gonna not gonna miss that one Coroner's certificate might be different So if you were just blown up by a nuke, what would you say shot in the head shot on the house like probably just Yeah, it's just eviscerated It hit my everything Which is what collateral should be after I was in six See this is how I know you know you hate women because you didn't specify everybody should feel that way you just said here Well, just the only one we saw go into the death cloud. I Still when covered everyone that probably Yeah, I mean what it would annihilate the buildings do it. Yeah, she didn't annihilate the buildings. You saw it. Yeah Hello, we all probably want to talk about that Two episodes right now, but it's like well, we'll be able to talk about that in like eight hours. Don't worry They could have easily have made that better as well by just showing it to be a cloud But they made sure that you knew how hot this was how destructive was it's got fire They did it once with the with fucking Fallen Kingdom a long time ago and everyone made fun of it I don't know. I knew I remember that wasn't that what that's a difference because in on easily blue Boy or whatever it was were other dinosaurs That was just a normal volcano So the pyroclastic cloud that was rolling down that came from the the you know belts from the earth itself That that's fine. It's normal volcano Mount doom. You have to remember is evil. Oh Evil volcano. This was cold. Oh So it you know in this in the topsy-turvy world those are the rings I'm just gonna be honest. It very well might be really cold. I mean, we've seen fire in this show So it might be I need a crutchie in the topsy-turvy world of rings of power Yeah smirks the name of Lord of the Rings with his crap Well, let's be the shape of the earth changes because of a magic fucking spell. All right, let's let's let's just That's perfectly good Yeah, we can separate our rings of power load the ring surely Legolas what's your elf? I see is like well ever since those assholes made the earth round I can't see nearly as far as I used to Oh We got we got us a new guest on this wonderful new e-fab 207 mr. Mr. Disparu over here on the furthest left who I met I believe on open bar a couple times And talking all kinds of meteor and stuffers time you visited the Maya boat, which is how held together by myself a Doggo and a witch. I was supposed to say witch doctor plague doctor heard. I wouldn't want to offend So hello. Hi Yeah, great to be here. This will be the fourth time that I've ended up watching each episode This time it'll be an even more excruciating detail Four times. I Watch it then I watch it to record then I watch it through to edit Watch it to record the first time Because it's funnier if you know what's coming because you can like you can put things at the start of the video that pay off later on Oh, yeah, I guess so Videos tend to have like a theme joke You can have a lot of those sorts of I hope they don't do thing and then they do it and you go. Oh good What even is the theme of rings of power? What's the theme? That's actually a good question anything that can go wrong will go wrong That's the theme of the writers evil always wins. Okay. You know, I like all the good people are evil like Half-hearts are evil. That's my favorite part of the show I Mean no half-hearts for episode six. I was so looking forward to hearing about the cannibalism and stuff But no no more details. Oh, that's you have to eat the sunshine yellow berries again Yeah, only two hours left of this insane nonsense the heart foot sections were very short I say that as if there's no more seasons on the way Can you imagine if you like went as a group to Tesco or something and they didn't have as many mushrooms as they did last week Better kill the children kill the tall guy. It was his fault But if they go for all five seasons and there's nine episodes a season at around an hour long Have we got 38 hours? more rings of power to look forward to Is my mouth just I thought it was 50 total right so It will be pay I'm basing that off of an idiot So I don't actually know that's true. It's the if it's just five seasons reported It's probably yeah, it's probably just the length of this season times five, right? I don't see why not Mm-hmm in totally like the finale's might be longer. That's what I'm worried about The final and off finale something yeah, cuz I thought they had just Chopped up the because if you have ten episodes of an hour that makes sense eight episodes means each of them are an Hour with change to make up for those two across the eight I was hoping that we just had that not that we're gonna get like a two-hour fucking last episode Jesus yeah, cuz it's not gonna add up through about what an hour and five minutes long unless they're including the credits and stuff Which maybe I could I could actually save us Please So, yeah, I don't actually I'm assuming I don't know who here hasn't man I think you've all met before right cuz and as proof on you both on Friday night tights, right? I've not met rags before. Oh, oh probably not Fringy either, right, but okay Oh Yes, pray I remember Well, I Mean, I think you're probably all relatively familiar with the format here But we're gonna go scene by scene detail by detail and complain Talk about everything. There's this one or two things to praise right guys There is one or two things to praise I'm sure of it. There's one or two things to praise. There's a nice sword I Don't find when they have these big shots of a new manure as they're all set in sale I was just struck by like my god. This show is expensive. And yeah, I just I Don't care what I don't care what's happening. It has Shots the crane horse, you're right. There was a horse on the crane horse crane There's a crane horse I thought it was flying at first and then I noticed it was this it was cured by literally nothing but rope I was seeing myself. Oh, oh But I mean crane horse. It's like episode six. That's the one where all it'll be tough since it stopped talking We can get through five and I was like reminding myself like oh five Can get blown up Nearly half their fleet gets blown up I said I said those barrels were full I said those barrels were full of oil and people kept correct me No, actually, it's wine like that makes it worse not better. Yeah, they're all That's not wine. That's not why you are thick fat. It was it was a big wine Also, why the fuck are they just stacking their warships up with Chardonnay Okay, I need that much oil either though We're going to introduce Pinot Grigio to me to love Yeah, that shit does not look like wine to me, but I don't mind that's like lamp oil to drink something on the way over there Yeah oil Enjoy Yeah Yeah, it's good water is good for you. You can't see water. You can't that won't make you better Yeah, you can't satisfy your thirst with sea water or something yoga said that they do say that it's wine in the show Do they actually say it's wine? Why doesn't it split? What the fuck do they put? When it's on fire I'm pretty sure they call them casks and you ask of wine. I'm not like what? You don't have a cask of oil I suppose because it had because it even had the little the little spouts the little spigots Right Right There's nothing that would stop you from using a little a little spigot cask to well Have any of the way we can all agree. It's retarded. Yes. It's not frigging tea and tea Michael Bay's wine What The what what when he's when he swims back to shore the guy actually says a cask went up as well I can I can believe that their ships randomly explode all the time considering that they leave unattended lit lamps We're labeling all the issues But he lied Call this a chronological breakdown Fights into that episode and it killed me. We're gonna be I'll get us started All right, so we we join back with good old nori and Fucking what's it be not Gandalf Oldman? He's an immediate mean you're man because he begs Different is oh nice. There's there's there's all kinds of things you could take issue I imagine on everything, but I was surprised myself. I was like, let's see how long I can go And like the second this starts the idea is she's like teaching him English or the equivalent Well, I'm already I was like, no, none of this makes sense That's how you teach people English. There's first off. We have subtitles So, you know, he could just look at those if he's confused. Yeah, but that's what you teach You just talk to them and then they pick out the useful words that you then have to explain with more English He's from space. What does he understand? They speak English in space. Have you not seen Star Trek? Yeah, it's worse than that. He it's not just that he doesn't know English He doesn't know the concepts of the words to begin with but the moment she says the word all of the concepts relating to that word Spring into his brain. So he doesn't know what death is when he killed those fireflies He didn't know he'd killed them until she like says the word death Then he understands what death is and then it's like a barrel. I killed those fireflies But the moment someone tells him a word He doesn't understand it and then five seconds later immediately does When he says he says why am I good and the audience is thinking yeah, why are you yeah, why are you good? Nori's like I'm such as like you are a good person. It's like what what do you you have no clue what you're dealing with He fell from space, bro. Like what why are you assuming everything like you could argue? It's like a hopeful thing or whatever, but at the same time, why don't you ask him who he is where he's from lots of normal questions Do you have a name and then she point like she does the me me Jane you Tarzan thing Yeah, where you point and then say the thing But no we don't get a lot of that instead She's like how many you know what a book is and he's like book and then she's like lots of pages written Tell stories or information then he goes. Oh, yeah, totally get it now. Yeah, I know all of those other things And I now know what book is like that's not it She uses words that he probably should have no context I understand with to explain words that he should have no context to understand with Yeah, like the more complex concept is much harder for him than a simple word to understand And yet it's the reverse here for some reason like I Was frustrated watch so it's just like they're gonna put Eddie after this He's just gonna be able to talk completely fluidly in a couple episodes later. All right, that's that's a little bit Yeah, but the stupid people who watch this and think it's good They will see that and they'll go. Oh, he couldn't talk at first and now he could talk a little bit. Wow That's so clever because it makes sense. He wouldn't be able to talk all at once He had to learn how to talk and she's teaching him. Oh my god It makes sense in defenses of it being like no, he knows a lot of English just not all of it It's like he doesn't know death and kill Doesn't know his own name. It's like what what what is it? What is this like contextless? English that he had like oh whatever it's too difficult to Make any they made for themself. There was no reason that yeah, wouldn't be able to talk when he just came down They could have a skipped all of this and all of the problems that came with it makes him more mysterious Makes people wonder if he's evil. They do a lot of that this episode, too I Think I think that's a lot of what they're doing It is just so art who's Sauron and that's the mystery they want to keep going at any cost Even if it's just destroys characters or exactly what they did in wheel of time. Oh, who's the dragon? So they ruin those characters and they're doing the same here and so Fortunately, oh, you know what before we highlight the song rags you you pointed out when we were watching this the fucking true the way she is moving a little You know to call it like the carriage of whatever the way they've got this Set up range to look at where her look at how her arms are and how she's walking It's like God. That's so not efficient compared to like the person in the best position at this point It's probably Gandalf doing the pushing it from the back But she should probably have a bar right that goes across and then she's grabbing it She's grabbing it in a way where her hands don't have anything to catch so to speak So she just through sheer grip. She has to pull this cart instead of there being like a crossbar to push or pull Or or something to stop her hand or something like that. I don't know She's she's just has a grip like iron the custom made and they made it horribly deficient It's custom made isn't you'll cuss when you try to move it What are the most efficient for him to be at the front of the truck and then lift and pull With oh yeah, he probably he's having to push down and If they're doing if all they're doing is lifting that's not too bad Especially because it's on the wheels So I suppose it gives them something to do and he doesn't have to lift while he pushes I'm trying to rationalize this so it makes some level of sense Well, so this was something that I had no I had no expectation of this and I don't think you did either right So that the the Shia Jenny these fuckers are on I had no idea I thought it was gonna take like maybe two days. Maybe it's two weeks. Yeah, the director said it was two weeks When it zooms out on the map I was like me they just went around a whole mountain and that's like a fifth of a third of their journey like what the hell Why I mean notices these little freaking guys walking across the landscape they have filled with perils that apparently they avoided all of it except this time where they just walked themselves into a swab Why I don't like when it zooms out and there's like this Destroyed caravan next to me like oh, that's that last group of people Go head back there to check for bodies for food if you will That's how all the people got in the marsh. Those are just hobbits Your are hard-footed to fell in the swamp. They only seem always right Yes, oh Yeah, and the reason that they look very big in the water is because as we all know whenever you put a Hobbit or a hard foot in the water and you leave it they start to expand as they soak up the water So it looks like a normal-sized person after you leave them in there for a while Yeah, they're just this explains everything panning across this whole map and I Then there's this shot and I legit was like, where are you? What part of middle it that we got into now are they heading to more door? I don't know If you specialize in hiding and camouflage Why would you ever make a campsite in the middle of a beach where there's no cover around you at all? I don't know Because that's that's not what they'd be looking for right if you're looking for harphids hiding You're not gonna be looking for carts with you know where they're partying in the middle of the the open area for So they be scanning the rise and looking around they'd see the cart and they're like no no no that's not them We're looking for harphids hiding in the grass and stuff and this whole thing reeks of Saving budget for the fact that you never see the other hobbits in the entire thing There's about two other ones and that family and there's supposed to be a whole village here They even made them park away from them for basically no reason just so it's that well Which was weird right because they weren't that far ahead of them when they started using a spaceman to move The carriage so why did they fall behind so far that we can't even see them like miles ahead? Several Chopping away their wheels to fuck them up in the night We haven't got we haven't gotten 20 lines chronological everybody Oh, I'm betting you you all at least loved the song especially the part where she said not all who wonder or wander a loss That was a great right? It was fun. I think that's a great reference to a great man if he saw This episode of flim he would he would really enjoy what's been done with his work Absolutely would appreciate Galadriel as a very strong character. He would appreciate nori is a Strong character He would really appreciate Bronwyn is a strong character. Yeah, and and the Queen region is a strong character Yeah, and I think I think she'd really really like that. She'd like he'd quit. I don't know why I said she I'm losing it man She would like home. He'd like Homer the most So, I don't know if I'm just not big brain enough To say this show. Yeah, it's very likely So I get if you wonder you might Get lost, but is the first one wanderers in you're thinking about things Oh, and yeah, it's not all who wonder or wander and wander So how does thinking about things inherently lead to possibly getting lost? I'm not sure Wondering makes more sense Yeah, I think it comes down to they're meant to hide and keep to themselves And so you're not supposed to think about the outside world or get lured into it because that's dangerous You just live in your own little bubble. Don't think about the outside. Don't go off a trail Get curious the tallest barf this all gets snipped or whatever the the fucking Hardfoot proverb was it's um, it works well enough as a statement. It's just the context Thing in this little tune while everything around is incredibly annoying and frustrating and stupid and Everyone do you even know her name? I don't fat one What podge is Was her name brandy He's a brandy Nori is that one Nori's the main one. Oh, no, he's not he's the fat one. Ah poppy So she's nori then that's a good. It's easy to remember because you're like Do you think of a balloon can pop right and she's kind of that's right in shape Yeah, so you're like, oh you're poppy because you can pop like or maybe I need poppies to enjoy this show Here happens. Oh Shit, I forgot about this scene next doesn't the dinner plate people Dinner plate people. Yeah. Yeah, I because I only know meta things about these people they're looking for sauron, right? Well, the show hasn't technically contextualized that yeah, they're giving us much. Yeah, they're just looking at thing and And they look nefarious. Yeah, look at those eyes. They're like And when she looks around to the camera We really want you to make sure this is an evil glance and who uses dinner plates outside of a dinner setting evil people that's who You know what I love it's actually not evil. It's like baby. There's like, no, we're really good I swear that why are you looking that way? Why are you assuming it's Really, it's really prejudice of you At the circus they have the people who balance the dinner plates on the big sticks and these people are dressed like clowns You know you put two and two together this is the traveling circus and they're looking for a tall person Help them out with like, you know, look at the oddities of the world sort of thing Did the tall man fall from the sky is the prophecies foretold or I have something on the top shelf and it has been an age and a Half since I've been able to get it. They even do the they flash like a Memory like a flashback of when he fell and all the fire and stuff as if like just in case No, no, no, that's that's like that's an is this Sauron moment Yeah, that's like the meteor thing being the eye of Sauron. This is Steve's is he Sauron episode? And so like they keep doing those Yeah, I think this is the third time I think they've been doing it and it sort of happens as a few of those across this episode We think oh this guy's we're now supposed to think that he's an evil man And he's not because the next episode is somebody else's is he Sauron turn I'm trying to think like from the perspective of someone who who's never read any of it or even really seen much of the films They would this mystery thing Actually work From that perspective. Is there anything even vaguely intriguing about it given that you already know that well There's only really two answers and two people who can fill those answers I don't know what you guys would have felt about the the actual success of their attempts to intrigue you very confused Yeah There's something that intrigues me like on the still picture you have here Mola See the person holding the dinner plate, right? Yeah, and then and then look at the person's hood that's over them and They're like what is underneath that order today? I've like juking bat ears I Only just noticed as you said it. Wow. That is a strange hood It's like a batman Mola is not familiar with the hood. No, no, I'm not But yeah, I mean that's that's pretty hilarious It looks like it's built into the thing itself like that would take some work You'd have to build in like a little metal hole maybe to keep it up or hard plastic See the because I don't think that's standing up on its own if it's just cloth And maybe if you fold it up enough Good for them I'm gonna opt for that instead of the ears thing that you're going with but then again This is rings of power. Who knows what's going on Could be anything Because they suck But yeah with very little context It's just like so we just don't know who the old man is and these these guys are interested in him That's basically all we have and we don't get anything for the rest of this episode all the next one about this Why does he have blackened fingers? Is this like some crazy smoker that smokes tar or something? I don't know Digging digging through all the dirt looking for looking for goodies and now Could be harvesting like meaty or clay to build new cutlery with It's very it's very rare when you have like meteors and you could make things out of them It's very special. You could sell that stuff. I mean the meteor market is Is very very Yeah, that's uh I don't even have to call it. They're looking for meteors All right, that's out of yeah the dwarves pay extravagant prices for meteor metal Yeah, well or tree metal but we'll come to that. Oh, yes the dark old fingers. I remember When the dark old does to you sometimes to do it to everybody and doesn't do it to everybody all the time either um go over to adar Because the the theme of this episode is a bit of a like we take a step back to go two steps forward in the next episode Okay, but we can't go yet the the war seemed to have started sort of and then it was like Not really. No, we're okay. Hang on a sec and then it's the same like all around middle-earth story wise So this is like Adar is like, oh man I like the sun It's gonna be sad when it's when I kill it. It's like, uh We also tortures his friend there. Oh, yeah, we've all been there I don't know. He does that Well, my only theory as to why he does that is because the half what's was so evil in the previous episode He's like, well, I'm supposed to be the really evil guy So I'm gonna have to make up because he was really nice to his orcs in the last episode Well, the half what's what horrible is that I've got after top. There's Can't let me the most evil There's a particular moment regarding that sort of concept that I can't wait to get to us episode two So the or the side episode two of our coverage, but yeah the you're right That this this does feel like one of those. Um, look how evil he is He's even if he's the boss of orcs you might have thought for a second there that he's not Super evil So he bends his own subjects and they do it happily because I I read that differently. I think the I mean it might be in the case of being way too charitable to the writers of the show Probably is if you're being charitable to them at all. It's way too charitable But um, I know I sort of read that as like this is an attempt to portray his So he this is an attempt to show you what he's about to sacrifice himself So like obviously he is like progenitor orc guy He still has sort of the pull toward the sun. He is much more elvish than the orcs under him are He's almost trying to make them see what it feels like, but obviously it hurts them So they're not really going to appreciate but that's his that's the setup for him then saying when the sun disappears Look, I'm going to kind of miss it But you will not you won't suffer for long because when the sun is gone you will be fine and that's what I'll That's what I mean. I think I I have no idea what they're actually trying to say What their intentions are his pov isn't that I'm going to be evil for the sake of being evil It's the I'm I'm I'm suggesting that this scene exists for that purpose to try and give us more of a sense of like Like he's burning his own men. Oh when from his pov He's like doing some weird thing about the sun You know, it's the same with a lot of like evil leaders like that It is but I don't think it's if I think this is this is literally it's an excuse for them to Sort of foreshadow the plan the dimming of the sun because like the only reason this scene really existed So he can then portentously warn that the sun will no longer be a factor very very soon The sun is going to dim and then you will be fine. Um, I don't I don't think I can read into it at all Be more than enough the fact that he's like the the orc is like And that he can clearly see the skin is starting to sizzle but he keeps doing it. It's like being mean You are kind of just being a jerk Do you look at that old face? Oh Yo, dude You know what the sacrifices I make for you, buddy Why I'm not ever gonna I'm gonna have someone else do this job if you're gonna Burn me. I don't mean I haven't even done anything. I've done everything right. This is uh preemptive punishment. I haven't fucked up yet I just can't stand how Consistent they've been with the orcs in the sunlight because there's so many shots of them in sunlight And they're fine and then they're burning and then they're not and then they're in Overcast and then they don't come out when it's overcast. It's like arc. I'm off it I just hate that again I think I mentioned this in the last one the fact that the only thing you need to do to make your army of orcs Work in the sunlight is just put them in clothes because that works in this universe So just give them hoods and they will be fine and then they can go around rampaging throughout the daylight and they'll be okay because They're supposed to fear the sunlight. They're not supposed to fry in the sunlight So the fear of the sunlight sort of weakens them and it makes them it makes them weaker in a sense They're not supposed to just like literally burn up because if it is just sunburn that they're uniquely vulnerable to Well, yeah, just give them factor 50 and put them in a hood and they'll be fine Army's ready. Go and kill some people in daylight. You gotta have that one orc Per five that has the giant parasol. He's like, yeah, I got you boys You gotta make sure you stay under it. Okay. It's effective and stylish. Yeah They'd be evil. They feel black. They keep hinting as well that all of this is that like run by higher powers So in last episode you had lots to talk about the valar and how you people pray to and stuff But when it comes to the sun in multiple scenes the sun either just goes away the second when they need it to Or just comes out the second that they need it to and that's either The most ridiculous of writing where it's coincidence or they are trying to say that it's deliberate by somebody else The god of the sun Well, I think you actually have to say it's deliberate in order for it not to be ridiculous and they haven't done anything to say It's ridiculous. I mean The sun is it's technically it's it's a god being stewarded around the world by elrond's dad Up in space, but unless yeah, yeah, you're unless you're actually gonna say Unless you are actually gonna say or do something later Which very clearly indicates that there is a higher power battle going on saying between the valar and and sarron Then yeah, it's just going to be contrived Um, and as someone who's not as familiar with all of it I thought it was absurd that he's just casually announcing on top of everything else We're trying to accept that he's just going to destroy the sun. That sounds like a Doctor evil type of thing. Um, and it's really funny. I really watch it. This is it's got that Grew i'm going to steal the moon I'm going to kill the sun and I think yeah, it's the responsibility of the show to contextualize that a little better Like it as someone who you know, it was not Led into this very easily. It just sounds so like oh man. You're evil at you. I'm gonna kill the sun You you watch it's like mr. Boons Yeah Oh fiddlesticks It is running all day long So you know building building a big sun shield thing is actually more Sort of I could believe that more than what they actually do Because I don't even know what the plan to destroy the sun even is or even if it's destroying it Is it blotting it out? Is it sucking it? It's the volcano. Yeah Yeah, they just want to spew ash into the air and that is going to stay forever Which isn't exactly how volcanoes work and uh, block out the sun unless they're trying to say Yeah I didn't even realize that it is Yeah, okay That's why all of this I thought they were active in the volcano because that's where he'll make the one ring And that's that's why he needs that Listen, if you if you put the sword in the key and turn it and make sun going we cannot even Joke about talking about that yet Oh my god, oh Geez nobody thinks Oh But hey, I don't I don't I'm not complaining about trying to get there, right? So next up I see the uh, because this is loads of setup for the big old payoffs where we're heading toward Okay, and this was bizarre Yeah, um this this is the scene where Ron wins the leader now. She that's her dialogue She's like, I know you don't want to be for your leader. It's like so fuck off. What are you doing? It's a very delagrious line Who are you just your life now except it? I'm your leader I I like I When was there ever a sense of like these people believing in the girl who makes stuff with flowers? I don't even When did that happen bollocks? But it's I think it's the last episode is when they the first episode But we see them in the tower and they have that conversation between her Her kid and the old man who goes evil in this episode and he actually raises the point It says who voted you leader and she says you did when you chose to follow me to the tower And if you hadn't done that you'd all be dead. That's It's but they did at least sort of yeah No, but like now when were you leader just like what I decided I was leader. That's what that is Like there was no Decision to make a leader who's a decision to be like oh her plan to go to the tower probably is a good idea Which is it's two different things. Okay It implies that there was no leadership structure in place in the village in the first Which is ridiculous. Of course. They would be who's the man? They have a representative republic that runs the village And they make sure that everyone's dirty and grimy and no one's you know has to go around clean Whenever someone has a bath there's always someone there with a bucket of mud ready before they get out Yay Thank you so much. I'm dirty again. Oh my goodness. I'd have to address because everyone else is it's highlighting Okay, this is the scene that there's a couple memes and virality for forever She always is Yeah, there's a couple repeated extras by the powers of CGI and The the the conversation I saw was basically everyone laughing at that and then lots of accounts quote to me in that and being like That's a that's a tactic used in literally everything even good things. So you guys are all stupid So talk amongst yourself. What do you think of this as a criticism? I'll try and point them out where I can I guess It is a flaw. There's no getting around that like Yeah Yeah, it reminds me one of those things where someone's like Fucking, you know, it's in another thing and it's like What does what does that mean? The the doesn't just mean this is a trick of the Filmmaking to try and hope you think there's more people here than there actually is. That's what it is I mean your mind can't help when you think about how expensive this show is like you didn't you couldn't get enough extras to Just fill out the space Which is I think the thing that makes this The thing that makes this bit more irritating a thing I mean, I wouldn't even side it's like it's not a significant problem But I think the reason you can't say well other shows do the same thing Therefore, it's the same whenever another show does it is that it's unnecessary in this case All you need to do is pull the camera angle down or have it set lower So you don't see as many people but you get the impression of depth Or have fewer people in the crowd because there aren't that many villagers Anyway, and we don't you ever need to see this many villagers later on even in the big fight scene we get to There are not many villagers involved in that fight. So just cut the number of them a bit But cut the number and lower the camera angle and you've solved your problem It's different from say peter jackson's films. We have 10 000 orcs to cgi But you can't say because they cgi 10 000 orcs therefore it's fine for them to cgi in Random beard people in two shots where they don't need to be there I think it's the same guy leave it. They look like the same They do look like the same guy Or maybe that's just the guy in the hood. There's a horrific racism coming out There's a guy in a hood that appears like like I see three of him already. Um, I think what the main this guy Um When you say a hood I'm trying to uh tell who He's he's wearing a hoodie. He looks like you know, he's got a big beard and he's wearing right right there Right, you had him before I don't know, it's so many that are Like if you go through this there's so many I've been sent this there actually is quite a few Oh, wait, yeah, hang on. It's like half the crowd if someone's done the thing already Oh, yeah, there's loads of pictures where they come and so I think the main criticism is about the budget Right, I could excuse this if it's you know, uh, a smaller budget or as an sg1 or something like this Amazon had an insane budget in telling me they couldn't get a hundred extras or something for this shot It's bizarre The defense is that this was all done during the sort of the lockdown times and so they Oh, well, we would have done it, but we just can't but the thing like as has been said It's the camera shot. They had ones that have decided to film it in sort of like ultra wide Um ratio as well because it's definitely not 16 9 Um, and there's so many they don't even bother to change the hats on the people They're literally just picked it's it's not just they copied them. They've copied them the most low way possible There's a triangle of people that's just repeated all over the place. Maybe you know, yeah, you in a slightly different way I think those are the word brothers I think that cracks the criticism perfectly if you would even switch the nature of the triangle they form That would have been something take a hat off have them put like, you know Just a bit more mud on one of their faces to try and make it look a little slightly different But no, you're right. They more mud. Whoa. There's a room They managed to just sort of uh It seems like it's just copy and paste Which is lazy compared to what you can do even in restriction times And this is the thing if so my headpanon is that this village is just full of twins and triplets And that's just the nature of this particular village Lots and lots of essentially just copies of people because in inbred people villages have very very small gene pools Yeah, there you go. I can believe it I mean half the village does look the same from this shot canonically in universe They look the same Yeah, this was what they did and if and if one of your three plots is essentially That I guess three or four plots when your big plots is a you know concerning a village of dirty peasants Probably have some extras, you know Is that is that homo right in the front as well our homo from from the last stream we did Wait a second Why can't they take all the people from new minorities and dress them up as peasants? No one would notice. I don't yeah, this is the thing There are so many solutions to this that I don't understand because even covert restrictions doesn't exactly answer this in terms of like Well, yeah, you don't have to Record them all together if you're pacing them, but you can record different people at different times, right? I don't know surely you yeah, you've got people I mean they could have recorded the same people just dress them in different clothes Give them different hats and put them in different positions and then can put composite the shot together As we mentioned they didn't even do that They actually did that I think there's um, there's a british tv show called countdown Which is what old people in students watch But they would record multiple episodes on the same day and they would have the same audience members in They would just have this box full of different colored jumpers And then in between episode recordings They'd send them away to change the color of their jumper and then have them sit back in different places And then no one would notice the difference. Um Yeah, and that's an option just change the color as was mentioned That was just pointing out homers, but they're rags just to the top right of their head but they're Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That is he's the he's the real here Probably with the same favorite character best developed so far You wouldn't understand if you haven't seen our coverage previously But he's quite a quite an in-depth meaningful character Yeah, fringy pointed out that he looks Staggeringly like Homer to the point of potential copyright infringement And we all agreed with his due to assessment and as a result He's sort of become our our crowd favorite so to speak Yeah, his adventure in these next two episodes I was told about it ahead of time like oh homers. Homer's really gonna go on quite a journey And I was like, oh, well, that's that's at least we got that but we will judge it How good it is Anyway, yeah, she's leader now shut up Um And she says we gotta fight And it's like stand and fight this watch that just you may have a like a just a normal person thought of like Well, well you Leave right good leave and not die probably leave. We are about peasants as an army of orcs, right? Yeah, you're not locked in you have no necessarily like there's no You can just go You guys are all really not prepared for war. Let's put it that way and You know these orcs this army they've already fucked up all your elf like You know watch tower people So Yeah, I don't know. I just I'd like to entertain that thought and then someone speaks up It's waldrick the stinky old man and you're like, oh, maybe which one uh, well, you know, you know the the stinkiest oldest one There you go. Oh, uh That there's down a little bit I got him on screen He was wearing an apron in the first episodes and look like it was wearing nothing else and he just That's right. He does yeah, he was the among the dirtiest and smelliest of the peasants And so he's like I suggest a second option and there I am like, oh, here we go Let's leave and then he says let's swear fealty to the orcs What The options stay in the tower and fight them or swear allegiance to them because then you could do That's it. I guess they don't even use those options themselves. No, they do actually leave So maybe the people would have stayed if she'd said actually this is a better plan This is I think you need you need more you need more like alphas in this this crowd Just one person to just be like you're both insane. Nobody listen to these people. Fuck them Yeah, how come blue dress lady's in charge? I didn't vote for you because she's the only one that has any color She gets to be in charge. That's how it works. Everyone else is dark gray It's a heel of dark gray the brighter your clothes the more Respect and power god bestowed upon her blue So it's a leader color And she dabba dee dabba died all over the townsfolk Exactly so the orcs are at a massive disadvantage if they wanted to run away Just run away while the sun's out because the orcs can't follow you while the sun's out and also being human You know, you can just stay up all night and run during the night as well If you want to you can make double the distance the orcs can and they're not particularly quick It shows that the show sometimes forgets that the orcs can't go into daylight So maybe they were anticipating the show forgetting that the orcs might this time Go into the daylight. I don't know but yet just do anything except maybe hiding in the tower Or just doing something at this point because even when they do enact their weird little plan Half of them just stand around watching So they're not exactly the most proactive group of villagers in the world. No, no, no one to seem to live Remember they all left their village without taking food. What is wrong with people? I mean, can you blame them for not wanting to live in this world? Like what I secretly each one of them wants to die, but they don't think anyone else thinks that and they think they're the only one So I just realized something and I might be skipping the chronology But I was thinking about the tower because we'll talk about why don't they just leave the tower and then I was thinking about Adar's plan. What does he really want? He doesn't necessarily want to kill the people He just wants to get the sword key thingy and then I was like And so why does he want the sword key thingy to put it in the key slot? But the thing is hang on the show actually revealed that Adar didn't know what to do with the key He saw the mural when he went to the tower for the first time and it's like a reveal that it's just real I thought he just The show's basically implying He didn't know what to do with the key because he found out when he went to the tower And so it's after the key, but he doesn't know what to do with it at this point I still don't get how when they're look when they reveal the thing on the wall Why they don't think oh wonder what this is and then look down at the ground and see the big No, no, no one would do that. That would be ridiculous It's like no, that's just that's just a hole. We don't we don't talk about it. It's just there Also, if it's so unperson, why does what if the tower collapsing actually showed the hole In which case that's even more contrived. I don't think I don't know because the the hole with the tower is Next to it. I thought I didn't think it was inside it And also if it was inside it wouldn't the elves have noticed that there was a sinister Yeah, not on that. Yeah, we're not on that. Yeah We're bringing it bringing it back from logic Have that's a good point bringing it back chronologically though. They're leaving at this point in the show No, they're pretty sure but old man in in this scene He already knows that the sword's important and he already knows where the sword is and who has the sword And rather than get the sword and steal it and go away with it and take it to a dar Which would be a logical thing to do because you'd get in his good favor He just sort of randomly calls out to Theo and says come with me and then Theo just sits there like a Moron because that's basically what he is and doesn't do anything. But yeah, why did you not prioritize? Yeah, why did you not prioritize bringing that sword with you? You like basically had it Yeah, and and I thought it was funny because he's like, all right, everybody Let's go and join the orcs. Woo-hoo at this guy the nifias guy. He's like, yeah. Yeah It's like what the fuck? What's wrong with you? You were terrified of them seconds ago But you're like, oh, no. Yeah, this is totally gonna work hundred percent. Waldrig is correct Any enemy of the nifias is a friend of mine. That's probably yeah Yeah, what he's like, come on Theo come on follow me come on and then he doesn't and he just gives up on it and it's like Man, oh, well, I wouldn't want to cause a social, you know faux pas here by I just I just would have thought he put more effort in you know Yeah, the sword at this point in the story is the equivalent of the one ring So this is like a Nazgul looking at Frodo and saying come over here my child No, I have cookie and then Nazgul saying okay fair enough You keep it The very thing that they've been digging up the landscape for however many hundreds of years looking for and uh, yeah We'll just we'll just leave it there And it has the same it has a similar effect on the wielder as the one ring as well It makes them feel powerful It makes them desire it and crave it So he should have always been angry at the kid for stealing it off him in the first place If anything he should be going mental at it Not only did he seem chill with the fact that he had stolen it he like explains Bagley the yeah, we're gonna be joining a sour on But the kid is clearly like what the fuck are you talking about old man? And he's just fine with it like oh, yeah, this kid's probably creeped out has no idea what I'm talking about But whatever it's fine. The plan's working. I guess question Yeah, like waldry pocketing that stupid hill would have made way more sense this whole time But they can't have that happen because we need some other things to happen first. All right, everybody It's gonna be great Fine stuff So far so good and they finally explain why they didn't take food with them to the uh To the watchtower from the villages because when they're told to do a thing they do it instantly is uh They don't collect their food. They just leave. Uh, they're gonna go join the walks. It's like You you're already leaving you do it But you need to like say The orcs will I see a guy holding his sack a guy picked up a sack of stuff I think we're blanket That's wonderful. There is a very decorating small sack there. That could be several potatoes. I don't know Yeah, I guess if you can't go out in the sun you would really appreciate good interior decoration Spend a lot of time indoors Wouldn't that have made a lot more sense if adar's message was join us. We have Provisions and stuff. We're not gonna kill you. We're just trying to find a new land You know one like that Then I could better believe these people but at this point I just find this absurd that half the town's vocal like yes Let's join the orcs. That's a good idea This requires no debate or deliberation or thought whatsoever. This is clearly the right move I think I'm very well written. That's my opinion. I know I'm gonna get roasted for that I think you should reserve judgment until the end Sometimes you got to get some rough setups to get those big amazing character moments and incredible plot payoffs This is true. We are only we're only five hours in there's not really enough plan to expect And I mean, yeah, this could this this could totally be setting up a great fight scene, right? So Let me say that When when we watch this rags, I think you said this and I totally agree whenever like a scene ends and it cuts to This is like an obvious like oh, we're at Newman organ It's such a like But then it's like well, no, there is no place in Middle-Earth right now where I go. Ooh, it's all just Like we're here again Half it's great new but all great fucking whoever it is. It doesn't matter who was like It's like, what do we do it over here? That's fine Yeah, we find out that uh He sealed or is mad because he's like I want to be on the cool people part of this this Thing but like we were almost on the shot of the ships because you can count them and they have at least eight Ships they're preparing for war and then later on they only have four. It's like, oh Three I think the last one in the previous episode was we've got five ships and 500 man Which is I mean you might think not the biggest army to send to guard your queen as you go and invade a brand new continent against Liberate liberate Liberate even yes, absolutely terminology here Not colonizing it. Okay No, although they actually should be but well farazon is clearly Looking to have some benefits of that. Yeah, we'll have trade partners when this is done like Yeah, I guess so this really shows the incompetence of just the production because clearly the writers They thought oh four ships and you know Ignoring the fact that this is numeral they should have a massive army But yeah five ships But then there people who were editing the shot of doing the visual effects is like this doesn't look good enough We need to put more ships in to make it look more impressive And not paying attention to what was written in the script to say they only had five and they throw in like eight Now those who just ships that I mean this is a harbor. This is just where the ships live. They're just there They're like extras, but ships Yeah, think of them as ships and the ship's kids who don't actually go off to war They just play in the shipyard. They run around doing ship things But you're right if we go by the visual of these like sails like so that's one two three four five there and then But if you look at it if it plays out, yeah, that's great If it plays out you even see more there's like more to the left And stuff and this is from the perspective of a ship. And so there's a ship that's right in front of us So it doesn't seem like the count's right unless that explosion took out a lot more than we thought Will they say two ships it took out two ships. Oh rags two could mean anything in numeral Yeah, they even said they're lucky it didn't take up more Yeah, we're lucky it didn't take up more This should raise some hazards about ship design for them in general like why Would we believe that this is every ship numeral has in just this this shot, you know, surely they have more This is the difference. I have more like some will be out doing work or patrolling or being just fishing Yeah Yeah The army but it's only worth it to send Five ships that's how much it's worth Also, they have other cities as well. They should have like a fleet of at least a hundred if not more It's yeah, that sounds excessive But that's the thing because that's not been set up so that you have to assume that numeral has more cities And it should have more cities at this point in its timeline But then in this point in its timeline, it should have cities in middle earth already from which to get the Yeah, not yes, I want to remind you right this was colonized ages ago As far as we know, there's one city on this place I wouldn't consider this excessive at all to have a hundred ships just Showing how huge numeral was when one of the wider shots we had at first like this This is far This is a tiny part of numeral in total from what we saw of the The huge landscape when when we first got here like when they had the bird's eye shot almost of all the islands The if you've got that much space and then presumably as many cities to reflect at and as many docks and stuff is just like, yeah, there should be a lot more ships and This is a people who were born of war, right? Like that that's that's They won a war with the elves and that's what created them. So surely they would have they've got so many disciplines that relate to war That you'd think they Yeah, they are supposed to be the greatest warriors in the world at this point If we get to see how good they are at fighting Born in war most experienced they're all very long lived So most of them would have lived to see or lots of them would have lived to see the war that gave them the island in the first place Um And they're just portrayed in this is just like yeah their entire fighting force is just dweeby teenagers and then it sealed was kind of the worst of the bunch because He's you know, he's not allowed to go on the mission despite the fact he volunteered in the previous episode because He got distracted because he really wants to go to west numeral to find where his family were But in this episode it's now I don't care about that anymore I want to go on this expedition and fuck you for not letting me go with you and I There must have been some development in between those two positions, but there isn't any of it It makes no sense from character motive point of view Well, the worst thing about this chart as well is you actually see the size of the horses in relation to the boat Yes So the stable cannot physically fit in because I'm not even sure you could fit two horses lengthways across the sides of the boat New manure as we learn is the home of the horse lords. So they have extra large horses That's why they have to move them with cranes. Not just the horse lords, right? Time Lord technologies in here. They are TARDIS ships. They are bigger on the inside and all the horses can More like They teleport them in because they got to fit through the doorways It's like this is crazy technology. Nubador is this is great And people were saying maybe there's just multiple levels beneath the water and that's how the boats It's like no because they go up river. So they're like shallow bottom boats as well I was thinking that that they want us to believe these are like double deck of buses underneath them or something of space But I was like, I don't think so I mean if it's a deep river you could have I mean, I imagine this there's quite a lot below the waterline But not enough even when you see it the inside of it later when that they go and do the whole sabotage thing It's still the even then the space looks too big to be contained You know, I've spent quite a lot of time on boats over the last few years There's quite a lot below there's more than you'd think below the waterline But there's not enough on these ships, especially if they are going up anywhere like high upper river Or even in a harbor which tend to be sort of shallow water Anyway, you couldn't fit horses on there and you couldn't fit the people and the store provisions as well If you're taking all three if you pack them in right, you know, you got a you just got to arrange them like Like like horses They're yeah, like they're like tetris blocks or they're a little bit longer than they are wide So you have to just sort of fit them in you got to pack them in That's the thing if you turn them at right angles to each other and then you can lay their bellies Belly to belly but then right angles and then the legs sort of go around themselves And then they actually become much more condensed Yeah, you kind of you lay them on your their side and then you just sort of stack them on top of each other They apparently the horses find us uncomfortable. That's not relevant to tetris It'll make them all the more happy to run at full speed when we get up to the other side of the ocean Yes, I don't have like plastic garden chairs You know when you stick them over each other and the legs to sort of drop down the sides I'm sure there was ways. Numerian horses are special So maybe there was a flat pack option. So we're doing 500 soldiers. How many horses are going? As many as the soldiers they're all As Numerian are Numerian cavalry, they're very talented because they can ride two horses at once. So really You have 500 soldiers. That's a thousand horses. That's how they get that's how they get to middle earth so fast That's how they get to the south one. This horse is under the boats powering the the boats they run on Yeah, literal horse How many knots can this baby get up to slaps hell So yeah, presumably 100 horses in each of the five ships and that's before Tragedy occurs that means that more have to fit God is so impossibly absurd. They did give a shit They actually measure their sailing power and horsepower the damn nation in the earth to do it It makes sense. It makes sense. One horse is equivalent to Oh, I guess one horsepower Been working out To the math of my head the conversion He was all mad because he's not allowed to go into the the fighting portion of the people I guess or he's not even allowed in at all at this point, right? He's not allowed Do you understand? Do you understand there's an incredible joke that could be made here? Do it where we we've been talking about horsepower. They are a sea people Here's the thing. It's only worth explaining because it involves knowing so, you know The latin word for sea is mare m a r e which is mare Which is what a female horse is and we talk about horse and this is seafaring people So there's like it's really it's really something it's something to consider honestly That's where we get like marine and mariner from But it's just something to consider As we move that's right. You try to say it should be mare power. Is this where it's going? No, no, no horse He wants to make a pun, but he hasn't got one yet work on it, right? It's not it's not really a pun It's not it's not really a pun. It's just it's something to think about But yeah, I'm saying you haven't got anything yet. You'll have a pun eventually working on it I mean, maybe I'll have a pun you have a notepad where you write down some of your pun ideas Like and start to sort of workshop them and I probably should whenever something comes to mind I should just write it down for later put a little bullet point is like needs work I think that's uh, I think that that's probably the because I mean Many of the puns are pretty strong if they're right off the bat But think about how great they could be with tweaks and refinements if you write it down Where they passed you and you at the same time two punners exactly doing it full speed Two punners working together. That's right. I was in the joke army. It's called two punners two It's just called two. No, well So, um, yes, Henry sergeant I think it's a seal that wants a particular like area of fine and and the land deals like well, but why Why what why should you I think he even appeals the fact that he's his dad at one point Which is really fucked up in terms of how war ranks should work. Nobody likes nepotism Piece of shit and the thing actually this is one of the small small thing I liked when a land deal is like Uh, you basically like shirked all of your duties and you're an asshole while all the other men here have been like working their whole lives To actually do their jobs. So fuck you and I was like, hey That's true. Instead of actually quitting which is what he wanted to do He purposely sabotaged his own work and got other people fired in the process This guy's an incompetent idiot Why would you want him on the board? His entire story His entire story up to this point doesn't make sense because he was part of the military He was a sailor so he could have been on the ships. Anyway, he's a sailor in training, right? To get kicked out Yeah, he's like, I don't want to do that because I want to go to this land over there in the west or wherever Where I can see and I'm like drawn to it and then the moment this happens He's like, yeah, don't care about that anymore. I want my original job back. It's just yeah Make up your mind. I'm sorry. No, you fucked up like on purpose and you even fucked up your friends careers too Which doesn't have a really Apologized for yeah, it's like that that was an unprecedented move by the captain to do that The unprecedented nonsense move by the captain that for some reason nobody is stopped. Everyone is accepted. That's just the case like okay And I mean you you rise the point like oh, yeah that he hasn't even apologized to his friends I think it's the scene next right where he goes to talks and the first of many scenes where a character's like I'm sorry, but now do something for me Right. Yeah, they immediately ask for the thing that they want like oh, yeah, I'm sorry, but do me a favor It's like oh, so are you really sorry or do you just want something from me? Oh, so you're just a bad person who's really selfish Well, it's just we see it later with gladra when she's like, oh, I'm sorry. I used you now. Help me. It's like Hey, how hey It's I'm sorry. I used you and manipulated you but here. Let me use you and manipulate you. Exactly. Yeah, that seems great That's a great one. Yeah, they're really good at characterizing her in one particular way that I don't even know they're aware of They do it all wrong too. Yeah With him as well. It keeps happening So this these two episodes were really piling on the the conclusions we already had about the dialogue like that I think that's one of the biggest takeaways I've had from this whole season the dialogue right and his hideous Just terrible. Yeah, we we ended up pausing a bunch when we were watching these episodes yesterday Yeah Because there was just you have to you have to figure out the dialogue But not in the sense of oh, it's so multi layered and there's subtext here and it's very meaningful No, no, it's just like what are what the fuck are you saying? Why do you mean drinking seawater? What do you mean? it's uh It's so laden with these bizarre like analogies and parables And and and I mean generally the characters don't even feel like they're talking to one another Like they're talking past each other or they're talking at each other The conversations don't flow naturally because they're not real people Or at the very least like they're not even trying to come across as believable people It's almost like it's like amateur dramatics in that way And so when you see a Shakespeare play properly done at the globe, then it all feels Exactly as it should and you're really you're drawn into it But you see the same play put on by amateur like amdran performers in a local village theater And they're all they're all seem to be they all seem to be very very aware that the lines They're speaking at grand and what they want to convey is the grandiose nature of said lines But they do as you say end up speaking past each other because what they're really focusing on is just delivering the line And not actually what the line is supposed to mean how it's supposed to be conveyed What it's supposed to convey either And it just gives it this this really weird sort of self I don't know. I don't even know how you describe it. It's very self-aware when they're doing it I think I'm saying it It it it comes across as dialogue that you read off of a script Not a thought that you had and then conveyed to somebody It's it's like it's like this is dialogue. This isn't two characters having a conversation This is dialogue in a script for a television show one of the things Anthony Hopkins has said famously on many interviews that that's how he's always done His approach with his movies is that he reads the script reads the script reads the script until he's memorized the entire thing And it's his like it's it's it's things. He's saying as opposed to things. He's reading and saying Like off a script. It's going to be Owning it all as though he's the character saying it and it's just like that's probably not a coincidence considering He's one of the greatest actors I've ever lived so you should probably Approach that yield some good results look into it. Yeah, it's kind of you know how like I'm not trying to so like Um, I think it's often a common thing right where like When when people perform on on a stage that they're meant to sort of sort of till angle themselves towards the audience Like that you never want to have like an active like pointing away from the audience or generally they're meant to be facing towards the audience It's kind of like that effect here, but it doesn't work where it's like every single time they're talking It's like they're very aware that there's an audience Like off to the side that they're trying to communicate everything to yeah, and there's boxes to check Like we've got to have our lofty dialogue that means a lot that people can quote I think that's part of the directing though because the problems with the way one person delivers it are the same across the entire cast everyone talks Like this all the time. Yeah, and so that's not just one person delivering a line when it when it's widespread You're like, okay, you think that sounds because there's normally um Politicians are told to speak like that because it makes people easier to understand and everything So they're not only sort of underestimating their audience and thinking no, this is so Difficult to understand we're going to say it slowly so you appreciate it But they someone said that was dramatic. That's impressive. That will leave an impact on you and I just don't It's too widespread to think the actors did that on their own I mean, it's it's got to be direction. It's yeah, if everybody's doing it. It's got to be direction I don't really know how you deliver a lot of the lines very well like when you say seawater's not gonna I don't know fix you or like They're so proud of that. They repeat it. They do that a lot with all of this stuff. They repeat this shit Tallest milk weird, but I mean that I think that I think we actually might have mentioned this in the last one But actually I would say that's more writing than directing in that case I mean if you can't conceive of a way in which a line would be conveyed properly Yeah And it's well and also if the particular type of line you're referencing is the sort of metaphor or the simile which Every other character from every other background in the show is conveying Um And there's no difference between them. There's no difference in speech pattern or conveyance Then I'd say that that's just that's a problem with the writers who have put those same lines in the mouths of disparate peoples And not just there's only so much you can do as a director if you're given a line like that Which sounds like it should be coming from the mouth of an elf But is in fact in this scene coming from the mouth of a pobbit Uh, there's only so much as a director. You can do to make that seem natural. I don't think you can make some of these seem natural No, I don't yeah, probably not and I mean like you said a lot of the characters sound very similar You've only got a handful of characters who I feel Generally say things that are reflective of them as an individual rather than Something that could just be taken and given to any other character and you wouldn't even notice Like you'd never feel like it was out of place that somebody said anything because everything everybody says feels out of place all the time You know, uh, one of the things I was going to ask about this scene as well is it started to make me think like we consider Uh, uh, Isildur's journey right up until we see him at the end of episode six even All of this is like all the complications he faces are all they all start with him making that retarded decision on the boat Where if he hadn't made that retarded decision on the boat Like even at the time surely he would have been like, oh, it's a couple days till I get my like Let's call it official license to do see things. I can still not do them Right, I'm assuming it's not like you're locked in via contract to do that You can abandon that job or whatever. You still have the qualification So like abandoning it right at the end Just seems like a really dumb move like this. What do you gain? Kind of where I'm at with that says himself that he can take a gap here He says to his father I can just like delay it for a year and it's only this father that says no I won't let you do that. But can you stop power there? He could he just No, I think I think you're right. I don't think he could stop it. I don't see why I don't see why I would Yeah, well, first of all, he shouldn't do it Like elendil seems like the kind of character that would allow his son to make that choice But secondly, he shouldn't be allowed to just his son's a fucking adult surely You don't get I don't think even said you can't do it. I think he just said it's a stupid thing to do well That's that's another good point probably but hey, it's better than fucking sabotaging yourself This is the thing what he did friends. It could have gotten him like put in jail at worst case like he's such a dumb ass I'm still Slightly gobsmacked about how they did that though given that they showed him do the same thing by accident In the a couple of scenes prior with no comeuppance And then they see him do it and it's deemed to be deliberate the second time But he's never been seen doing it before therefore. He must be off the team even though he did it 10 minutes ago Uh, and no one cared that was that was kind of astonishing But I was trying to think about this one is sort of where they're going to take his character because he's got to be in it Of course with the like the entirety of the run of this show and he I assume They're going to attempt to tie him into the seal do we see at the beginning of um Of the fellowship of the ring and so maybe what they're going for here is this sort of this sense of Selfish impulsiveness Uh, this is supposed to sort of this is like the germinal form of the floor that leads him to take the ring Even though actually the ring corrupts him and would have done whatever his flaws But I was sort of thinking about that and is it really even framed that way because he's not really it's not selfishness here Is in like self-motivated selfishness. It's kind of it's almost like wistful Romantic selfishness that he conveys like he like looks starry eyed over at West Numenor and decides he wants to go over there for reasons And then no, no the next grand thing is he wants to go off to Middle Earth Um, but that's not sort of that's not bitter sort of cold calculated selfishness. That's just that's very sort of teenage Wistful selfishness now I kind of I'm wondering whether they are going to try and build that toward the later depiction And if they are going to try whether they have the talent and the answer to that question is no But I'm not sure about the preceding one so Next up we have Oh, yeah, that just sort of ends awkwardly Farazon may be the only one who can stop the the war from happening and so Isildur's daughter is like hey Farazon's son tell him not to He says also why they she was she was introduced five minutes ago. What why did she wear this anti-war sentiment come from? He doesn't like war. All right. We don't even know why None like the way The way she describes it in the after thing is she saw her brother go off to war and that she didn't want him to Die and leave her so that's why she doesn't want him to go Doesn't explain does she care about yeah Okay, so this is the thing I've got criticisms everywhere But like it's just does she care about the the current narrative Which is that there's many people who are about to die if they don't go and save them Not only a family. Oh, okay specifically Is this what I mean Has just been pointed out in terms of just noticing motivation She's like she doesn't she hasn't she earned that scene where she can explain her position on this But no, it's just ah war boo. You're like, okay All right, they even hinted there's no real reason for it. Why is he so anti-war? You think you'd have Well, as was mentioned, I can't remember Does this guy have any reason to oppose the war apart from trying to get into this girl's pants? Like it's funny you say that she had something that I didn't like about this And a lot of people are making fun of the line alone, right? Which is when I speak his ears close up and then she says Yeah, I've got to write that down Speak louder, what does she do before saying that though? She grabs his hands and I was like, are you are you doing like a like do it for me buddy? All right Yeah, I know And in which case I'm just like, what does he think what is his position? There is something weird happening between these two even off-screen. I like disbrew your video where you have their interview That guy was trying his very best to not look down. He's just like Keep on contact keep on contact because she was wearing a very interesting dress I I had to comment on that dress that just a time stamp followed by pause it Yeah, so this shot should be shown in every film class though Exactly all of them should be every second of this show should be to teach people how to do things wrong Okay, there's some nice things, but I need yeah Yeah, uh, so we were complaining. We don't exactly know what her position is What the hell is his position? Again, I only know it because the actors have said so So Like great They've both said that essentially both of them are using each other and he's getting Um, like he approached her not accidentally It's part of the family's plan because of what her family is doing and that the father has been put next to gladrile and so because faris on is kind of Got his like little tendrils all over the island He wants to get someone close to that family so he can manipulate them in the future None of that said in the show. I said it's not said in the show But it also doesn't make sense because the next thing we'll see from him is going deliberately against what faris on wants as his plan In order to further the anti-war aims not like other sounds perspective bint So I don't understand any of this No, well, I don't I need to give what's the personal reason for the son like what what is his What is his character? Who is this guy? Well, the problem is we we haven't had a scene with him That's not just he and her Developing minute chemistry in order to justify them being an early actually at some point. Yeah, we haven't heard them actually Yeah, all their scenes together are weird awkward flirting Kind of and they don't have a scene where they talk to each other and have their Perspectives and they chat about oh have you heard about this elf? Yeah, they're sending five ships. Oh my gosh. That's so Many where are they going to put all the horses? I don't know we could pack those things like fucking sardines But I just in there they talk about that for a while or something there's got to be I don't know who these people are I've got all I've got six hours of content and I barely know who anyone is I thought of another way they could do it a giant net behind the ships and you throw all the horses into it And you just drag them across the sea And you hope they can hope they can breathe underwater. Are you giving them all snorkelers? They'll be fine. There's a special one I'll just strap them to the sides of the boat as armor actual horse on the horse. Oh, yeah um So, oh, yeah, this so halbrad. He's got his forging crest Smith now Like yeah, he's a smith now, which I'm sure everyone else in the guild is thrilled with how did it like how much time has passed That's the first thing I was it was gonna try grab Do we have any idea it could be it could be that it could be the third age by now We don't we don't bother now because this is the thing about I just don't vibe with the timeline at all So am I supposed to believe that when we followed the harfords for that incredible journey? Is that all of the world moving forward in time? Or is that just them as in like when we go to someone else? Have we now move forward two weeks? Is that what's happened with with uh, numinal? Does anyone have a line for that? It can't be because I'm again skipping forwards But they specifically say two days to get to that town and only one day crap passes in the town So they have to be different timelines. Right. They have to be if they want it to make sense God it's so confusing. Um But like so basically I I would hope a decent amount of time has passed to account for all of the things including but not limited to He had to actually complete the presumably the course for getting this crest and owning it He had to It's revealed later that he was given it because he shopped Not galadriel to the queen, which is how the queen knew the galadriel was going to visit her dad I said, that's that's what they tell me. So that's what the queen said. All right So all of these guys that you assaulted and injured and everything and then stole from them I'll make you a part of their group. I don't understand. Yeah Sorry, so we got the crest for an unrelated to forging thing that he did It was in um, it was in the prison sequence when not galadriel somehow managed to get four guards into the cell behind it One in one go and then you see I think I think you see pharas on falls against Not saurons or definitely saurons prison door and then they have a little whispered conversation when he tells her that he knows Where she's going and so in between episodes. That's what justifies the giving of to him of The guild crest Galadriel brings it up when she confronts him Like when they're talking with the queen the queen leaves. She says, you know Oh, that's what I was wondering how the queen way laid me in her bed chambers Implying that I was it was sauron. I mean That worked out incredibly well for galadriel. In fact, it worked out better that way than it would have otherwise because the queen Which she wouldn't known anyway She got thrown into the prison for cell for demanding to see the father So the moment she breaks out of prison, you think she's gonna go to see the father of the father. Yeah That's true. Um But not to mention like I'm just still a little bit baffled like uh, you've completed almost political favor for me Or a bit of security cool and he's like I want to crest for forging. It's like, oh, you have to go complete the course for it I don't I can't just give that to fucking dangerous to just hand it. There's a reason why they was cresting. You don't mean like it's not like Um, it's not the same kind of favor I would expect. This is very strange Just I could see her just being like well, can you forge then go in it? I can't imagine you would have taken that long Especially if that might be what this is because he's like he makes a sword and then shows it to Oh, he's already got it though comes the forge Like yeah, but maybe this allows them to train in the first place because they did say you're not allowed to forge at all Yeah, maybe if I'm being really good faith, maybe I'll just say that she fast-tracked him. He still did the course or whatever Something like that. Nice. All right show. I'm being nice to you. I guess he would imagine that this sort of thing would take years and years Maybe I have no clue because they didn't tell us anything and he decided to fucking try and Like steal it before trying to earn it even though he intended to stay here for the rest of his life at one point He's not he's not a bright lad which one which character is not bright. Sorry, which one? Oh my god. You're right. I should have been more specific I mean whole whole brand Yeah, it's not right Well, he's either not brighter. He's the brightest person in the world and he's just playing dumb all of this will lead to his victory Okay, I'm just anointed how quickly he made that sword. I went from him quenching it to now It's fully polished. It's got in lane gold and everything. I'm like It took weeks Yeah, this took years This taking the decades it took decades centuries What's after millennia It's a big jump. This guy's still alive because he's he's a hearty new minorian All of them are That's real long. It took the rest of the world is just at this point many many d's So Yeah, as rags highlight I just want to make sure we've mentioned again that um You'd think that there would be huge pushback from not only the guild members But also just I don't know guild leaders to be like he fucking broke that guy's arm Hey, he came here. We took care of him. He assaulted people stole from him is in cahoots with that elf We don't like elves here. They steal our jobs. So we don't want anything to do with this Yeah, they steal our jobs stealing someone's job at this point. Yeah, the dude with the broken arm He's not forging right now. He is healing that phase. He's fucking furious. That's going to ruin his career to an extent Make sure you would write a broken arm would fuck your ability to forge for a decent amount of time Absolutely. Oh, yeah, I've only got one. I gotta use the little hammer now. This sucks Exactly I got a jerk off. Well Paul Smith. No, they designed them in for that rags The the forge the the smiths of new minor See for him. Oh, wonderful. And uh, uh, yeah You've got visitors and then they take him to visit somebody Someone's here to visit you, but we're taking you to visit them. It's all right This reminds me I will never stop mentioning it It's one of the best moments in fucking tv show history when beta takes all that effort to turn up to everyone to say You've come to destroy me Instant try instantly get off this shuttle tries the gas like Kenobi That's what we call like an instant classic line. It's just like thank you. Thank you. You turned you against me So Uh, yeah, hold on is is taken to the queen and Galadriel for talking about like plans and stuff And um, I guess he they ask him hey, where are the orcs going and he says, uh Toward the watch tower of austereith and it's like How does he have any clue it could be anything, right? And and even then that information would be months old. It's like, oh, okay, so the tower's destroyed then if Yeah, that's the right. Actually he should assume they've done that already Yep. Yeah, so unless he knew something about that tower specifically Like why they he knows exactly the timeline They get it all out Well, then again, yeah, if he's sarron, he wouldn't know the timeline exactly But then again, I would have thought that it would be subject to pretty significant change when he's not there for that long You know anything could happen, right? Isn't it determined by how long it takes to dig the trench and that's determined by how many people they capture and keep alive, so And also if you if the only way he could know the timeline is by being star on the one thing He wouldn't do is reveal to everybody else that he knows the timeline. That's actually true This is the part that I don't understand. I feel like this show is going to absolutely collapse If they really do reveal this guy with sarron the whole time as opposed to sarron Possesses him at the end or something. I don't know What what they're honestly doing I feel is that sarron at this point in time is legitimately on Potential redemption arc. He's actually wanting to put away all the evil is done And he's not actually up to date with the plan of adar or anything Um, which is stupid beyond belief, but that's what I think they'll be curious about that Character that I think he's he's doing he's doing a sheave palpatine and galadriel is his anakin So he is already evil and he's trying to turn her over to his side See, I think if you write on that saying there's gonna be a lot of questionable decisions throughout this whole season if that's true Yeah, but that scene with him in galadriel where he says yes, I never wanted to go back at you at all that crap And the scene in this episode, but then he says I do and that's what happens for this episode We'll look at yeah, they contradict everything sir only after she came and manipulated him into it He's he's going back for her But his own personal wishes to say that and he talks about I've only wanted to stay here to find peace I just don't want to go back You're luring me back into a life that I wanted to leave behind So everything he's saying is I don't want to do this and she keeps coming back And basically emotionally blackmailing him into going against his own will So that's one of the problems with this the dialogue in the show There is no there's never any ounce of pragmatism from anyone. It's all just Oh the signs. Oh, I had a vision or oh Your emotions and your feelings and oh because I can't stop and I did the shut up Stop does anyone want to do something intelligent instead of let's give ourselves up to the orcs. That's a good idea No, I just do it and it's like what the fuck are you doing? Uh, seriously, we'll get there in that scene But when gladio says her reason for keeping fighting is because she just can't stop Like this that doesn't change anything for me like all of your all these appeals to emotion and It's it's like Let's it's no you have to give me a reason This is a big decision for me and even though in the end I Fuck I don't know. I guess I want to be king for now I guess because of these appeals I don't see the connection between I guess dots don't have any lines between them. I've been connected Back in the day when people being overly emotional not seeing reason the go-to thing to do is just give them a good slap and just like wake up Yeah, pull yourself together woman Oh, so it's always a woman If there are plenty of stupid men in the show Let go of you Actually the film hails Caesar as like a guy do that But he does it too like he doesn't do a woman at the beginning, but then there's another guy's being unreasonable He just slaps the guides like wake up It's like that sing from airplane where it's just a line of people ready to slap them Now We need to bring that practice back for the characters in this show. There are so many people need a good Logic slap everyone just I just you need someone who has this basic intelligence who understands cause and effect He just needs to grab them by the the shirt and just slap them No, damn it Reasons think use your brain use your brain So on the topic of Really shitty dialogue. Uh, this is something I'm uh, we've pointed out too many times myself rags my brain to not feel like This is this is becoming a very real thing. You know, like really shitty choreography can be an indication that the writing may be bad too Or really shitty armor work you might be like because if they didn't care about that Maybe they're not necessarily true. It can be sometimes but there's this thing This is this thing This is thing that's like not necessarily connected at all to whether or not something is well written in in terms of how Dialogue goes and it's just been really interesting to notice Feels to me the shows that land on the good side versus the bad side when it comes to dialogue We'll have characters just Noticing each other and what they're saying versus not noticing each other at all what they're saying now In this show, they've done it plenty of times already But this scene has a really fucking big example Where uh, the queen is like so you big man over here You're gonna be you're gonna be leading all of your men your humans into a big old fun kingdom You're gonna be king, right? And he goes Uh, hmm, you know, I just Wait, what what have you been doing? She's like, wait a minute You did just let me in the guild yesterday Yeah So she's like, wait a bit. Are you like are you like a bit fleamy right now? And then the gladiator's like, oh, uh, my companion is totally fine. Actually. He just uh, he's he's fine and queen regents like Oh, okay. I hope you are ready Nervous. Yeah, yeah And uh, that's not how humans work just at all And I was saying to rice if we were in a cold right now and uh, little bitune is like, yeah Fringy hates mario and sonic. Okay. We are in a call right now We are in a call. There shouldn't be too hard for you to imagine then rags. Keep up So little bitune is like mario and sonic fringy hates it absolutely fucking outright hates it And I'm just like that doesn't match at all with anything. Fringy. Do you actually hate it? And then you go, uh Uh, little bitune is like, no he does Then I go, oh, okay Okay, well that settles that Like nobody talks this way ever nobody I don't know why shows keep doing this It's like to to be like, oh look at that conflict that we can't yet resolve. It's like no It would be resolved right now. This is incredibly important. This is it If you're gonna be rescuing sending hundreds of men across the ocean to a foreign land as a liberating army Installing elf installing their king. That's like a big element to encourage everybody that this is a really important move and stuff the simplest way to like in the case of the queen it's like, okay So do you believe her or do you not and you don't care because it's one of those two And and should be retired on either one because she'll be retarded to believe collateral here with it So obvious that albert doesn't want to do it It's um, it's it's disastrous either way either she's an idiot or she actually doesn't care about this Which is completely contrary to everything that's been established about her up to this point This conversation is not over But like they felt like it was over that didn't want to deal with it anymore They had the drama that they wanted to relegate to the lighter half of the episode So like the conversation just ends before it even began And also just think about what gladiola is doing here. She is taking away this guy's freedom completely like He's gonna do what I say no matter what she's freaking cow. I hate her so much oh You think the old queen region would be doubly skeptical and doubly on the ball if you can be doubly on the ball Because uh, these these are the people that she's just let out of prison yesterday Uh, she she is pinned. She's hinging her entire plan on people that she had imprisoned who broke out of prison And then did exactly the thing they were imprisoned to do To be fair there's another there's more evidence yet now that you you can't trust what they're doing What they're saying because they're they're clearly being shifty and there's something going on Would you as has been said would you as the queen say? Yeah, I'm just gonna accept that that's all good. Surely that would Make you exceptionally doubtful if you weren't already which you should have been In the queen's defense the symbol did vaguely look like mountains from somewhere. So there we are I think that tips the scales quite a bit. It's it's a little bit lame because I mean I don't really expect much from this show But in a better show you got three characters here who all have different objectives that they want to achieve And there's some unresolved issue This is like a really good opportunity for like an interesting scene with a bunch of dialogue laden with subtexts of like these three people kind of trying to Like essentially all of them trying to push for whatever goal they have with the queen being like well I want to actually, you know, like achieve some sort of broader political objective here Um, Galadriel just wanting to go off and do her battle to like resolve her own personal issues And then dude Keep forgetting his name. Um, not being particularly interested. Yeah, yeah At least as far as we can tell not being particularly interested in doing it But maybe being careful to not throw everything off Like maybe he's kind of dials back like his apprehensions to make sure that he's still got a foot in the door It's an opportunity. But like these opportunities keep getting um, they they just keep They they keep letting them slip away Because I don't know what they're doing Yeah, it's kind of uh, kind of crazy honestly The part of the reason I was bringing up the comparison by the way is just because of the counter example, which Uh, rewatching a little bit of house of the d because I'm showing Mr. Mr. Rags it now I'm gonna gonna get him try and get him caught up eventually possibly see what he thinks of it Could be interesting this that way the other who knows in episode two It was it was shocking it was unreal because I had almost forgotten it But I remember oh yeah as it was happening and it's just that opposite direction So one of the characters says How do you how do you feel about situation x and the other character replies? How uh, the situation is happening for very specific reasons For someone else's motivation and then the goes back to the other character who says I didn't ask you that I asked you how you felt It was like whoa You listened to what they said They ignored your question and then you addressed the actual question It's just yeah, I answer my question here. That's why I asked There's there's nothing wrong with the character being evasive indeed Yes, uh, that can be really useful in terms of characterizing somebody or setting the tone of a scene But it's also important that other characters, you know sort of recognize these attempts to I mean Sometimes they don't have to but I mean a lot of the time they should I guess You would imagine that when the writer is coming to write this scene They have a pretty clear understanding that like each of these three characters has some objective that they're after And what should be informing their dialogue like for all of them is how do I best achieve that objective? But like that's not the point of the scene the scene has an objective Which is to essentially establish that there's drama But not resolve it yet because they want to do it later Problem is that that scene just can't play out the way that they want it to I think that's a problem I mean Yeah, I guess that's one of many explanations for why the dialogue is so broken in the show Is because there is an objective for the scene and like whatever that objective is We don't care at all what the characters in that scene actually would want to achieve with these conversations Um, they're entirely secondary I'm not sure maryll even has an objective in this scene Like the only reason she's going abroad is a tree told me so because That's literally around motivation Well, I would agree that the motivation is shallow But even even if that exists like you got to use it, you know, you got to like you got to do something with that The problem is what what a noise means it's tied as well It's not just the pedals I mean it is tied to the vision from the silmaril and then of course you have The prophecy which hasn't really been very well explained. No Prophecy is not anything about it's the prophecy It's supposed to be that um by turning away from the valour and by extension by turning away from the elves Then you're inviting numinal destruction and so having seen the vision of destruction What they are doing is going to try and hopefully in in her mind Rekindle the love of the valour and save numinal So they're going to try and save the life of their city and the pedals is kind of like their the inspiration to go The instigating factor That I think I think the show has tried to say that I don't think that that's a purely law-derived thing It's just that it's I don't know that I would have necessarily understood any of that how I had not already read Because I don't think I don't think that's what the show is saying Like she knows the island's going to be destroyed, but she doesn't know why or what's going to cause it So at first she tries to stay because she thinks that will prevent the disaster No, she tries to send the Galadriel away, right? Yeah, like she she thinks if I go over there it may like backfire on me and cause the disaster So at first a plan is to just get rid of everything and that'll keep us safe And then when the tree petals fall, she's like, okay, we that's a sign that I'm doing the wrong things I've got to do the opposite of that. But I don't think she knows anything about following the elves or There's a larger context here because we know numinor will be destroyed Like we we know the largest story. They're not going to break that canon. I wouldn't think they would no and so by the petals Because the instigating incident for me, which is what causes numinors down for is the queen leaving and letting alfaraz on then Get it all his evil things in and control the government stuff But she's leaving because the pedal is telling this. Oh, it's important that you leave So it's actually the pedals is like a greater god of this universe Telling quit the queen to leave which is causing the destruction of numinor Dude, it's all just it's all poorly explained ambiguous like prophecy Fate destiny god religion stuff And it seems like every decision is based around this very poorly explained element of the universe And there's in it and I just I like I don't know what why you're anyone's doing what anyone's doing just these vagaries of Supernatural things. I can't follow this. There's no connecting lines for me to follow as an audience member The leaves dropping when gladrials leaving. She's like, oh, so we're supposed to fight the war in middle earth then It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that could mean many things If you're taking it literally the the leaves dropping is the god of your place saying no It could just mean keep gladrial here Could be that Here or do we send her with troops or like do I need to go exactly like like I have a whole kingdom run I have no leaves What if the pedals meant that she's doing the right thing and she was doing such a right thing that Like you know all the pedals. I was like, yes, you're doing You're doing so good You're getting the wrong impression. Oh, damn it. It's like, oh, I'm trying to give signs and they just miss Yeah, there's only so many times the tree could say no to me Let me just show up and tell me what to do instead of giving me these vague Guide direction things with tree flowers. It's a god. Okay. What do we need to do? Oh god, just come down and tell me what to do. You can do that sort of as a narrative device There is um, I don't remember where it's from. There is an old sort of parable example of um There's a man and he lives he lives in a city and he gets his fortune told And the fortune tells him that he will die in the city that night And so of course he gets scared shitless and he runs away to his brother's house in the next city Where he is then killed because the city was not specified So like the idea that you can't escape fate But that you're only able to judge your or pre-judge your fate by the available information You can therefore be surprised is something you can do. It's a legitimate dramatic thing But you have to earn the audience's patience and understanding for the payoff then to be worthwhile Otherwise, it just seems irrational to be making because I was going to say that in in your example These avoiding a city and ends up in a city. That's that's something but this is they the pedals left when Galadriel was leaving on a boat So that means we must go to war. It's like wow. That's a jump Yeah, because I yeah, I think the vagueness in this is Deliberous, I think it's part of their whole mystery box thing that oh, we'll just draw them in because nobody's quite understanding What's going on and it also has a side benefit of a lot of people will think it's deep Simply because they don't comprehend what it is. So they think it must be something more there That you just can't comprehend yet But if you keep going you'll definitely find out this really complex plot will reveal itself and then you've got the other side where People will use that and their knowledge of the books to explain things that may not even be in the show But no you just don't understand if you take this bit from this book then and so you you Create this little army of people that will defend the show For things that it hasn't earned or doesn't deserve and probably will never happen You're absolutely right This vagueness is smoking mirrors that idiots use to try and feign, you know greater intelligence and wisdom in When they lack the capacity to achieve it naturally. It's really frustrating It's being invited by the show as well because it does keep throwing in mentions of things like the valar And there's a few names in this episode that he mentions ally for example some of the valar Which well they're only understandable if you've read the books and so they sort of appeal to people who have and say Yeah, so this is all part of the grand design, isn't it? Even though the the entire design has been uprooted and shifted around and the timeline has been fucked And actually there's no guide you can take from that anymore because they can change any of the canon they they choose to So they are inviting that kind of sympathy from a certain sort of class of the audience It's sort of dishonest and a bit shameless, but they are trying and I gather for a couple of people at least they are succeeding So separate to the conversation we're having there's another thing that bothers me here with the queen or what she does From an outside observer All these people just trust elves an elf arrives An elf arrives right and she's like no, we won't do anything for the elf We just trust you then the elf sneaks into her bedroom And now she's committing an entire army to the elf's cause I'd be thinking holy crap this elf just like Mind controlled our queen and the government is completely subverted. What the hell is going on But no one reacts with any logic about what's happening. They're just like, oh, we're going to war. Yes, let's do it I mean we had mentioned that moller and I when we watched these when the soldiers are leaving the city I'm like man, like do you do you you all know why you're going? To do any of you know why you're doing I almost hope they don't this is happening because how depressing if they do Well, I I assume that they don't I don't know what they would say Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. How would you how do you justify this? It's absolutely nonsense I think we hear like passing comments in some scenes are like we're going on the word of a stinky elf and her stinky human Like what what the what the fuck and it's like that guy's right. I mean Yeah, yeah, that's a good And so you've got our our pharrison who's going to be this this incredibly integral character And has been portrayed in the show until this point as much more the voice of the people than the queen is And you do see him at some point in the show going through a crowd of people who are very angry at the fact that they're going to war The missing scene is him addressing those people It's like what does the demagogue do when he's lost the people who he's who support him? How does he win them back around? How does he get public support? Which then explains why the people are so willing to go to war when you see the soldiers actually leave And it fills out his character if you do that It fills out the politics of the world as you do that It fills out numeral's place in the world if you do that and it wouldn't take more than one To do that, but they don't do that They skip it and it's so weird I mean they had they had the scene when the the chicken the guy was talking and was like Don't go to war about all these people complaining about them going to war And then when they leave the entire city is cheering and everyone's on board I'm like, hang on what happened to the people that were objecting that that's a reasonable injection But no, I don't even know why these people are cheering. Yeah They were paid Farazan paid them. He's like, I don't know. I'll just cheer or something I don't know. We'll get another trade partner. That's cool So in conclusion with this line given that I've staked my name upon it I should hope so in reference to him leading men and as a king once they get there Seems to me that she wouldn't even bother being like, oh, he will cool when when it's suggested in this moment that he absolutely will not She is queen region should be like, wait, are you fucking serious? I've been told this whole time you're 100% on board Are you telling me you're not He wouldn't go and then glad to go I raised an army in everything. We got ships ready It's not even like you have doubts even like even if you got a doubt, man I'm committing a lot to like help here. Exactly. So I hate it She's the they often not in character the dialogue never goes the way it probably should judging from what people Because I think you have plenty of room with dialogue You don't have to have like one line in particular out of all lines possible But I just I just hate it when they they just give up There's a part in this episode later where Two questions are asked and they're completely ignored And I'm so tired of it when they really like They're questions that both the characters very much want the answers to Um But like it's it's the way of the right. It's like avoiding concluding that that a drama at this at this point They don't want to do it just yeah, because they're not ready to do it yet So we can carry on from this same Uh, at least I think yeah, he he fucking slaps down his um His whole thing to symbolize that like he's the king or whatever if I'm glad you're I'll be like Jesus fucking christ If the queen sees this This is all going wrong Maybe I could just dress up some random elf guy as a whole brand to be like no, this is him. It's fine We got the king. It's all good. We're going and that that is the only thing that links him to being that king He's got a pouch that he says himself. He's still dead man. They're like, oh, no, you're definitely the king's ridiculous No, it is insane The assumption glad you're doing here. I can't I couldn't believe it. It's like holy crap She assumes rightly so though that this universe will bend itself towards her will regardless of how much sense it does or doesn't make So it seems to be in character You are right about by the way about the whole never kid to me you would hand me over for a guild crest It's kind of funny because if that's seen with pharaohs on he doesn't say if you give me a guild crest I'll tell you where she goes she's going You just said he just tells pharaohs on yeah, so it's just like was he then later like hey You know I helped out with that. Can I have a guild crest now? I can see pharaohs. I'll be like no No, I really don't I I can't just make you a guild but why would you even yeah? I'm not even remotely connected to any of why would you know by prisoner How bad that would make me look if I gave you a guild crest you crazy person Sorry, I mean it just doesn't even seem to make sense and like even from galadriel's perspective She's like why did you crack that deal in the seconds you spoke to pharaohs on like that was quick But it's like no, I'm a very quick deal maker I'm in the deal guild Yeah, and so he's like you've used me and then she went I've convinced him to send armies to save your people you manipulated me really Oh that freaking line She's she's downright abusive In how she is He's like explicit in how much he doesn't want any of this and she's like I've gotten all this for you You're using me I'm taking away your freedom But yeah, I'm taking away your freedom but because the prison I'm putting you in has cushy like nice cushions You should be thanking me for doing it for you. It's like holy crap. This is a slave master telling a slave They should be grateful. I couldn't believe it. I was like She's just so staggeringly unlikable in every way. Mm-hmm They really fucked this up though because it's not just one scene two scenes three scenes. It's every single one It's I don't believe turbo can't I'm gonna shout in the shit at each other about how much they don't get on how much he has to be convinced to move out of the Fucking smith's stable or whatever like they got the the queen could be around the quarter She just she could have just been there like wow, so this is way worse than you guys let on, huh? Presumably the guards are still waiting for him to escort them out. Oh, they would they would never tell anyone anything Okay, they keep it themselves. I'm sure certainly not loyal to the queen Yeah, because they're listening to the future king of man in the southlands or whatever just Today like I don't want anything to do this shit. Fuck this and it's just like wow, that's that's awkward That's fine though. We'll just keep it to ourselves. Don't worry. Don't worry. Little tune. We'll be back momentarily and Just and just sorry like the when you know rags are saying that she's so unlikable I can't I can't believe how truly unlikable it made her like think of that line in episode three Where she's like, who is this mortal who speaks to me as if he has the slightest idea of who I am? I couldn't believe it like Just keep going. Yeah, this this is like I'm taking you free to be grateful. It's like you freaking It's like and you know that like the polar opposite of that is when you have someone like yoda Who's considered the greatest jedi of all time sort of thing and he's pretending to be a fucking idiot in front of Luke and when luke is actually aware of it yoda's like Yeah, I'm pretty awesome actually, but that's okay. Don't worry about it. You can talk to me however you want that sort of vibe where You're like, oh man, this guy's kind of cool versus the one who's like stop talking to me like a normal person I'm better than you like oh, I think you're I think it's just pretty standard, right? Everybody's generally going to take a liking to these cool humble characters who are much more competent intelligent than they let on versus characters who have to constantly declare how great they are But it also it's like you could only behave this way and get away with it If you knew that the person had no other choice but to do what you were saying Because otherwise like you don't need them to like you you don't need to agree with you They will just do it because of who you are So apart from the fact that she's read the script and knows they're going to make that decision You couldn't act like this To anyone because you would just immediately put them off what you're trying to do because she's not clever She's got nothing on him. She just assumes he's going to do it And so she can treat him however she wants and however crap she wants to treat him like because He's basically dominated. She's the protagonist. She is the protagonist So she knows that everybody's going to bend to her whim Which is but again, she this she's a person in a world filled with people with their own goals Yeah, like seriously This is the type of character who you would have built up as the villain to make the audience just crave to see them Defeated because that's what I want. I want to see glad you'll just get what's coming to her and humbled and Defeated in some way and I like that's not what you want for your protagonist. You don't want me rooting for her destruction I wish everything gets in her way and hey, they they did kill her in the latest episodes All right, I'm good Yeah, the credits rolled after it's a six episode Six episodes series in total. This was a weird adaptation, but fine, you know, it's whatever it's done. She's dead now You got a good run Quote a quote Explain why everybody survived that I'm sure they will have them survive. She's going to be walking like, you know covered in cheeto dust It's magic magic Everything it was electricity in it Oh, come on Over to the harvests, which once again, I was like, oh god Keeping that in mind right because there's lots of memes that have been made from what we last talked about It's like it really does come across that way But keeping it all in mind with the fucking dialogue they give us this time around is surprising We have our team who are like moving their way through this forest and it logistically speaking They are in the same forest as the other half foot selection of people They're actually quite close by now because they bump into one directly and it's like, oh, okay It looked like you guys were just on the beach Yeah, yeah, so I just uh, I thought they had no hope in helicatchin up, but they have uh, so good for them. I suppose Now we've got it's so hard So hard to remember the character name. They notice there's footprints for the the wolf bear pig things And how It's miles away from the road. I don't even know And and you know, this this actually really pissed me off because they they Spent a good moment in episode one showing that a wolf was watching him when they went to pick berries and everything And they do nothing With it and if they're trying to say that this is the follow-up from that set up bullcrap piss off They are miles away from that first wolf. There's no way that that wolf tracked them out on time time No, this is a new reintroduction that now they've written into wolves on their travel Which means that scene in that at first episode was completely frigging pointless They would tell you nothing They would tell you that was introducing the wolf the problem is this introduces the wolf so Exactly, this is the introduction So yeah, I agree. What's the point of all of that if you're just going to do it again? Uh, and as you said like it's not like it was the same fucking wolf or anything like he's back Jeremiah the wolf don't get you Um, and yeah, it just shows the competence of the creators of this show And I think uh Rags, did you say um the the way they shoot this is like they all just they just walk toward the footprints directly As though they've been told to go there instead of like it's very They're on the road they're walking around and then We just see nori and fat just arrive there. They're just at the footprints now looking down. Oh, no How did you even know all the way over there? Yeah, you got the road there I'll put it here So there's no reason for them to walk all over here and find these but the the show is just like no They did like oh Okay, they even walked past a set of footprints, which are closer I only just noticed that as it scrolled down It's actually true. Yeah so it's uh Yeah, okay. Well, you know be scared wolves and Let me get the next bit which uh, it was I was so fucking shocked that they did this This is doubling down basically Lady Henry's like Oh being told by this lady. I don't even know who this is his wife, baby something I don't know but she she's like, oh not a good harvest right now Most people because of that tall guy they have and he's like, I don't know What you want me to do about it? And then she's like we should have taken their wheels and left them It's like Like all the implication that these guys are psychopaths. They really wanted to confirm it in this episode It's it's not Can't to leave them to die in the wilderness What is wrong with you? Why would anybody continue to move especially if they're keeping up like you're Evil, I don't know. I am all why do they bother giving us the shock? Expression from Lady Henry if it's normal enough for her to suggest it And on top of it, right? This isn't for an actual crime or anything It's for eerie portents that they're reading and there's like it's our way We can't find food because they they've got a person with him and that's validation enough for them to like kill people There's fewer birds in the woods today must be his fault kill him It's like I'm really I can't think of another show that's done more damage to one of its groups of characters in so shorter space Of time because we've had like maybe 20 minutes of screen time during which the not-hobbits have gone from kind of charming Kind of lovable just vaguely irritating irish gypsies to oh actually they abandoned their sick to oh Actually, they kneecap people they don't like and leave them to walls because the woods scared them I think they were I think they were meant to be comedy relief because you had that whole chair rolling down the hill And it was yeah very sort of 70s kind of comedy kind of stuff And then we've got the in the very next scene as it's just pure evil She's actually talking to the people that she said yeah I think we should go and kill them as if she's their friend as if oh no just tell me what's going on She so too faced It is I mean we are the last episode we were sort of joking about the cannibalism thing But actually on the current trajectory they will be easy each other before the end of the show I think what makes them particularly contemptible is we keep saying oh they're going to kill them It's like it's kind of like they don't even they're just going to leave them to die They're going to sabotage them and leave them in the woods to die like they don't even That's that is the kind of group that they are you know like that is the most accurate interpretation It was a meme interpretation to say that they would eat them, but we're getting there It's just like how are we getting there? That's insane And the it's crazy as well because like these kinds of like this little like group of people It's very reminiscent of the you'd expect them to be the most welcoming the most friendly and chill the most wholesome like Oh, there's this guy But they like the most evil there as we were saying the orcs are competing with them right now to become more evil It's insane I don't know how we got to this point and the other thing that I really don't get Is that they all seemed incredibly sad that uh, you know the they were going to fall behind how sad that's so That's really upset. Oh By luck the spaceman has actually made it so that they can catch up with us Instead of celebrating that even for a second being like oh, it's so good that they won't die now They instead of like we're not getting as much food as usual. We have to kill them. It's like whoa now like what? And so what i'm trying to say is like uh, if someone said like are you being absurd? This is just one person with one criticism is like, yeah, but what else have we had from the half-hearts in this episode? Nothing It's just this lady saying something absolutely crazy the characterizes the half-hearts has just been these insane killers That's all you give no one pushes no one pushes back. It doesn't don't be stupid. We're never gonna do that. Yeah, he just goes That's it You're not supposed to say that out loud. That's yeah, that's probably what it is So let me ask you this who is a kinder leader sardauk or adar Well, that's about Adar mourns they're dead. You know There is that Yeah I guess it was what he was doing to his people Um, yeah, maybe it was burning like don't worry. This will call us over and you'll have strongest skin for it. Trust me Maybe yeah, plus we're out of lotion Adar has not yet advocated killing any of his orcs for Well, yeah, if we're talking which one is the better leader like overall is definitely adar But which one's like the more caring it's like probably adar. I think yeah I'm also going for the guy who doesn't say I don't like you today. So I'm going to kneecap you And it's not just kneecap it's kneecap them in a wolf-infested forest. It's like they It's death. They they they are they're definitely debbing them to death. Yeah I think I think we would all agree them to the balls If you needed like these wheels in order to save your own life and someone takes the wheels away from you They are killing you right? That's fair. Yes. Yeah And then they will write your name down a book and then tell you for the rest of eternity We will wait for you. We will tell lies about how you die And laugh about why you die if it was in a comedic way And if you if you're an idiot, they'll be glad of it as well So you was a yeah, we'll laugh at your horrific demise at the death of bees Death by bees so funny That's been killed from that. Oh, yeah, especially if you're hardfoot and you're little which means bees are like five times The size they normally are Oh a swarm of them stinging you to death Fuck me. That must be a terrible way to die. They're all like, oh What an idiot It's like, thanks guys. I mean we wait for you. Yeah. We wait. Oh, yeah Yeah, that's that's we're very sad So, uh, yeah, the wolves start attacking everyone's panicking and I was saying arrives when we're watching it I was like, so I guess they don't have like anything close to a warrior or a Scoutsman hunter anything among them that could actually like fashion any kind of weapon, right? To the point where they don't not even like cutlery anything Like none of them seem to have any access to any weapons. They are just prey like they're like bunny rabbits, basically It was kind of dumb No sharp stick no gardening tools. No They fear these wolves and they always have they consider like one of their top tier enemies They always bump into it's like make a spear. You'll thank me layer. Okay They punch entries in episode one to guard against the hunters not obviously to fight the hunters off But so they could tell everyone they're about to die. Yeah, that's apparently that's it Salve the horn come out lie down. It's your turn You know, it makes me think of the film willow with the you know race of dwarves They have warriors amongst them as well They have a far more rounded civilization and balance like, you know, society Play orders of magnitude compared to these freaking half-hearts Someone in chat just said was like, oh, they have a strategy. They throw their week at them and then run That's why they're one of the few They're one of the few communities that are glad to have old and weak amongst them. It's it's like It's like when you have like it's like recharging shields over your health bar You could just throw the weak and the elderly at your enemies before it starts to hurt your actual health bar They should have done that in this scene with the wolf chase if you just like picked one of them up and lobbed her at the wall They lobbed her and ran Well, lucky for them the almost to the point of dying It looks like dory's about to try and break off like a branch to use it potentially as a spear, but uh I'm gonna be able to do it. Yeah, I thought it was gonna be the cliche You know, you hold it and then wolf jumps on it. It's yeah She saw the episodes where black elf was he was just pulling things off trees and stabbing orcs with it She's like, oh, I could do that. No, right I'm sure that was the wasn't that the knife tree where he pulled a knife off the tree Wasn't that is not what that was because he was yeah, he yeah, he pulled off It just grows knives. That's the knife tree Knives are beautiful as a species. They just grow in the wild guys guys Sticks are very powerful. He just the guy knew it Well, so powerful she couldn't even break it off and that cost it. Yeah this is I liked how they were gonna say Oh The wolves are chasing us. We need to climb a tree to escape the wolves and then they climb a tree Which is about one foot off the ground In their defense That's like three feet to a hard foot Yeah, look, unfortunately the wolves are twice as tall as they are to us. So really they're still in the black They're still in the red From this shot, right nori's at ground level the woman that they were with she's sitting down like at ground level She knows she's dead. She doesn't care. She's like fuck it. Whatever. It's fine There's plenty of trees to climb comfortable. They actually might be able to you know, get to some level of safety in that tree They're just like nah Yeah, they stop climbing. They have to be they have to have a lot of you have to have a head start in a really good tree This I think I had said this scene reminded me of something from ice age where you have the three critters They like they finally get to them and they sort of stop Together and they slowly all close in Yeah Ice age ice age was fun. I remember that being a fun movie. Yeah. Yeah Good times So What does Gandalf do? He turns up and he's like, I'm gonna get you any ground pounds A famous move from the character mario that he is clearly copied So fucking op the ground pound you could just spam it and it hits all the wolves and it's like Hey, he gets hurt, right? It gives his arm a little fleam and he's like ouchy Small price. Yeah, you can't keep doing it, right? But yeah, really lucky he was here at the time. Geez You could have been torn up. Lucky he wasn't off doing rambling while eating snails or whatever, you know You were pretty close to just having a plot line I know I know this show does this a lot where it's like your your hated character could get eviscerated And there's no reason to follow this plot anymore. But no, we won't let it happen Like elf man. He knew he dies like 10 times in this show. It's not fair I mean, I really like it. It's an awesome character. Wait. Oh his plot. I thought he meant his armor in general Yeah, no all his armor is crap as well, but no the plot armor is ridiculous and we're here Made it Welcome So Context first they are doing a little sparring stuff and the first I think you said it straight away right It's like wait a minute. Are they they're the actual swords? Are they using their actual swords to spy like careful lads and you fucking You might want to you know watch how you fucking kill each other I think there's a couple of shows that do this or even movies and stuff where they Do you remember when we watched trey and they had the wooden swords when they were practicing? It's like hey, see madness you should you you can only practice with Very very sharp the sharpest swords are reserved for practice because If you practice with very very sharp swords, you will really do your best to not get hit Now i'm i'm only that like so i've done a full video breaking this down and it takes an hour to try and cover everything It's i'm not sure how we do that Oh my goodness, but they're practicing in the middle of the street on steps and it's like One they can injure passerbys and two they don't have a barracks or anything to train in. Yeah, so stupid Yeah, this Because it just looks like they just set up randomly and they're even maybe stalls nearby for like merchants They're just like oh you do it. You do this. Okay. That's that's great. I guess my fucking business for the day is shut down That's fine Is uh, you do you guys? Yeah, as you said on the steps as well like what a stupid way to add a variable where you're trying to teach them very specific lessons And those people try to get passes like excuse me. I've got a shop over there just to move All right. No, I'll wait fine. Sure. Yeah swing your swords around Oh boy, yeah, so next to halbrans forge as well just coincidentally. He's there at the sidelines But funny enough, I think this is we actually because yeah, I went through this episode on On Friday night tights as well. So it's like it's all very deja vu, but Here we go again So it opens with his saying because it la deals like oh you could offer your assistance because you know everything It are really good and awesome and the best at everything So you tell my men how to be better, please. I'm just like all righty. There are many ways to kill an orc Really that is an opening train opening sentence from this genius of warfare I thought that was early one. I'm glad you were there to tell me glad you'll thanks We need a heckler in her audience to be like, whoa never thought of that. Wow Was that the only magical ritual? Was that the only person that said outside out loud when they were watching it? Stab them like I I just taken the piss when she said that line and I'm like, what's the best way to kill an orc? Stab them And somehow right those two lines are very close to each other, but there's a little bit of cringe in the middle too Oh, okay one more line which says but for you guys, I'll keep it Strong and simple. She's a yeah Translation you're all retards. So I got to keep it really simple for you You tell us what the advance moves good time to learn about killing orcs This is the time like right as we're about to step on the boats essentially You go off on this weird war across the world Now I guess we might as well tell you about killing orcs or something So if these guys not had any fighting well, they evidently haven't but should they not have had any fighting experience against anyone? Because it's not just orcs that you can kill by stabbing them and twisting like that's pretty much most humanoid creatures You'd think they'd have been training with that basically since they first held a sword This island doesn't seem to have a military These are just people that volunteered to go out of like these were traders and merchants and stuff a few seconds ago The new minority people, you know the greatest worries in all the world the new minorians. Look at how great they are They have to be taught to stab What is happening? Oh, it's so difficult to watch. Yeah, but as as that is the first command she gives but a stab twist gut Basically the most like tier one is good. You may think I thought you were talking It worked right in the show stab twist gut Yes, his name is He's a good guy. He's a good guy. What's funny about that? Like that actually by by the wording gives us a location of the strike in the gut Which just means that's a slow Like a gut wound is a slow death. It wouldn't be an instant kill. It's it's actually one of the worst places to strike I think she means like to gut something but Like I don't know like if you if let's say that you have a sword, right? And it's sharp and pointy and wonderful and you stab someone with it Do you want to twist and gut or do you want to just like pull it out and do that again? The thing like do you want to twist it? The twist and withdrawal of a sword wouldn't do if you're thinking of gut like Throw out all their entrails onto the ground a stab wouldn't and a twist wouldn't do that You'll need a big slice right down their nape. Yeah, exactly Yeah, I it's just all retarded This wouldn't do what you're thinking. You're saying you're doing you're just stabbing them in the gut and they wouldn't die They'd still be by the way sad uh Like stab forward and then pull back and then stab again And then just just fucking have it's a party man. Just keep stabbing until it's dead But it's worse than that because I've only just realized I think this is meant to be like an easter egg callback because that's how she kills the troll at the start When she's on his head twist. Yeah stab twist gut and then the blood flies at the camera This is meant to be a reference And she keeps stabbing him over and over and over again. She yeah, she guts his jaw That's what kills him You're the guts gutted someone's head Um, and I did like that bit where she gutted it by stabbing it through the skull. Oh, yeah That's how you do it. Yeah, by the way, that's where the twisting comes in you stab But then the twist That lets you gut you if you were if you were some Fucking fool and you decided to stab gut twist it would just it wouldn't it wouldn't work It wouldn't work at all. Everything would fall apart It'd be it'd be embarrassing and everyone would laugh at you for for gutting before you twisted. It simply isn't done Something about what about twist gut stab that like Oh, don't we don't even don't even don't even get me started on twisting first Well, uh, so what did you have just like so amma what do we do with that? And she's just like baffled. She's like Stab stab I told you the three words. I don't care if I have armor Stab twist gut, you know how this works. It's very simple. What if york is surrendering? What if they have information stab? stab stab Certain other shows though have been telling us recently that being stabbed through the gut is actually not That big a deal and you can carry on and recover within the space of an episode at most so Is this really even the most effective battle tactic? Given that most people seem to recover from being impaled through the spot I don't know if that's what it's supposed to be because they didn't twist That was it twist and gut they did Vader didn't twist and gut. He just stabbed And that's the lightsaber that we should have done. Yeah Well, we we I think what we talked about all that It's just like if you just keep the lightsaber in for a couple of seconds They will do the rest of the work. Trust me. They will take care of it And the lightsaber quarterizes them. So as we know from this episode Well, the next episode that just magically heals everything if you get through All of it Um, so someone's going to highlight as well. Uh shad you may have thought That maybe she's not gutting it considering she's at shoulder height at this point But they very handily pointed us out here's shoulder height is actually the average man's gut height Right there. See well gut gutting is it's like, uh, it's like a verb to gut something not necessarily to stab in the gut, right? Because you could I thought to gut something is to actually have the guts come out once you've Yeah, you would need a slash all the way down the chest and navel But as we put them open the troll this this is called set up and pay off you fucking plebians, right? This is why when she kills the troll and guts the jaw It's like it's just the general act of gutting. Well, that would not be pay off and set up at that point This is how we like we're finally learning like when we first saw the troll fight We're like, wow, that was incredible. How did she know to to twist and gut like that? That's incredible I would have never thought to To execute that maneuver and this is it. This is this exactly now. We're learning how she did it Everyone in the theater clapped and like that's how she learned. Oh, of course. It's a technique It's glad to know like you run about armor before but glad real knows that all the armor And this is actually just like leather or cloth with printed on things to make it look like armor So like doing that on an armor problem It's like it's like orcs for more hammer, right? You just draw the armor on and believe in it This is honestly, I don't know what the problem with the scene is Tolkien wrote all about this Tolkien often would write in in his memoirs. He twist And no, no, no, we want it. Yes stab stab twist gut stab twist gut It's his most famous quote It's on his tombstone if you go to his his grave on his it says James ronald ral token or whatever his name was and then and then when he died and stab twist stab twist gut It was an odd funeral, but he was an unusual man I thought it was funny that after she puts it forward and then pulls it back There's this girl here who's just like blown away. She's like Whoa, I never thought to do that. I've never seen that move before man. Wow See, I thought she was more reacting like I thought she was actually like, can you believe this crazy character? He almost killed Kevin. Kevin, are you okay? Look how cool she looks Shad. She's so cool. Come on She even said come at me. That is something I totally expect her to say By the way, she actually does the twisting. I'm like, yeah, like wow, could you could you do that? If you've stabbed in someone with a tough straight piece of metal Could you turn it 90 degrees? Like that that's got to be that's that's got to be really incredibly strong rags Okay, she's like the strongest person in middle-earth. I think at this point Oh, the twist right might open up a wound a little bit more But it could also get your sword stuck in the target, which is you don't want to do And usually when you land a strike you want to withdraw it as quickly as possible Put your guard back up in case they still follow through an attack And so the act of focusing on twisting every time you land a hit is And what if we change the scene you have to go You can't half-assed it and stop at the twist What if we change the scene so that she's training up? Let's just say a random set of six. So land deals doing six as well But they can hear each other's sort of advice and this it starts bouncing off and she says twist The gut. Yeah stab. Woohoo. And then he's just like he hears that and then he starts telling his guys like You don't want to just stab twist and gut. There's a good chance. You'll actually get your sword stuck And you need to you know, he just brings in all the extra information and offers other alternatives And then she catches that and then she's like an unexperienced And then and then black and full back full back fourth until they maybe give them a fucking fight I'm bored. I want something else to happen make something character related happen if you're gonna have shitty choreography Okay, I have something to offset and I beg you If you are montage montage of basic training and then you don't have to show people all of your shitty choreography Yeah, that's interesting too Is that gladriel is supposed to be like an actual commander of troops with hundreds and hundreds of years of experience at this point The advice that she gives to this unit of Fighters has nothing to do with cohesion And discipline and sticking together and covering each other It's it's just stab gut twist Like oh, thanks. I wouldn't have thought about that It's not something to do with You know like leadership So that their portrayed as being you know naive and they're they're all volunteers So presumably, you know, they've never fought before and they've not done any basic training before and yet Apparently they have all done more than basic training when it comes to horsemanship and formations Right when it comes to that they're fine So which is it that they can't be completely untrained novices or very seasoned experienced and well-drilled people You it has to be one or the other But she's actually anti-formation because she starts saying the things like fight with your feet move around Well, you can't do that in a formation. You've got people on either side Oh, I'm sorry just bro. You've already given it too much charity. She didn't say like move around She says fight with your feet not with your arms not your arms But not your arms Your arms off your arms get way too much attention when it comes to fighting don't even think about your arms really It's all in the thing you should be staring down wacky inflatable. I'm flailing tube man. That's what you should do with your arms This is the strategy that one has to employ, you know, like there are people who can fight without arms like casuaries For example, they use their feet to fight So You can carry on fighting without your legs What about the snake army the snake army is they don't have well, I guess they don't have feet either but Reminds me of they have like Now, I don't know good old Batman begins a lot of people appreciate the the training scene where the main point Raizal ghoul wants to make is just be aware of where you are He doesn't say mind your surroundings because your arms are useless Like he's don't care but he's just like no no no just just just be aware because your opponent's gonna use it to their advantage And you should be doing that too that sort of thing where if she said mind your footing Because that could be the difference between you know victory and loss like nobody's gonna take issue with that But when you say it's all about your legs not your arms. You're just like wait, what? Yeah, look, I would have even if she said fight with your feet as much as your arms I'll be like, yeah, okay. That's fair enough. It's just not your arms Don't neglect your balance, you know, you need you need to you need to keep your balance Don't flail around like a tarred you need to Just little things that might be useful in a five minute lesson not stab twist gut I mean Batman was referenced earlier and then there's got me You have that scene where he's he's tripped up and because he's tripped up That's the opportunity then to say mind your feet Have her have her trip one of these soldiers up and then you can give that lesson relevantly Without detracting from everything else they're supposed to be learning like how to hold a sword Presumably like she could get around them and they can't Get a reach of her because they haven't moved their feet to accommodate yet And then she you know, that's how you can be like see gotta get get them get them a bit more fluid You are correct. They do they do not do that though. And uh, I don't know the curiosities I want to go over this so Elendil's like if anyone can like hit her I think it's a score flesh if anyone can do that on gladrile. They get lieutenant Um score a hit or something. Yeah So, uh, is that like common because what is what rank is lieutenant overall in terms of like how far up is that compared to just sort of soldier Lieutenant is fairly high. I believe is that something you should just give to somebody because they scored a hit Oh, this was my complaint when we watched it was it it's that that lack of a leadership element where if you if you are able To score a hit on me gladrile the mighty The the fair the incredible Then I then this guy is going to promote you to a position where you will be Like commanding troops issuing orders like participating in tactics and many strategies is like well Why because you hit some bitch with a sword? So now that makes you qualified to do those things like calm down It's bad enough. We don't have we don't have any training for you guys anyway I don't even know where the army is don't even ask and we're sending you off to fight And you have to learn about stabbing twisting and gutting And one of you is going to be a lieutenant I'm not it pays better So that's something I can think of better ways to sort of order military affairs and essentially who wins the game of tag And then they could just carry that going because whoever tags the lieutenant can become the lieutenant instead That not sure is there's a really good basis for military organization But it's a basis and then treating rank as well here as like a treat as opposed to Something you are because you've earned it and that's the that's the appropriate level skill you have You know, it's like who wants this Well, one would demonstrate skill, but this turns into one v five where it's just look If she happens to be dealing with someone else when you're absolutely like What she achieves in this scene is just you guys suck and I am great She doesn't actually teach them anything of significance and like focusing on all right Because yeah, you can point out mistakes But then what you should follow up from that is this is how you overcome the mistake All she is is pointing out your mistakes and saying how sucky you guys are and how great I am It's just an ego fest for her. She's the way around it Which I think is quite quick and easy to do is whilst they're doing like the five on one fight You have one of them start sort of naturally giving orders that you stand there You stand there that surround her and then as a result of the movement. He's on the spot planned He's the one who scores the hit and then you you accomplish both things so that you show He's got natural leadership qualities. He also scores the hit so it started It you know meets the criteria set out at the beginning And it makes the fight a little bit more interesting because at least you can see someone learning something from it This isn't the first time we've seen this character. So we've had opportunities to show this stuff Oh, yeah, but he's just like some guy You know and and I wonder is this gonna hurt them by by having them fight against her who's Who's so skilled the universe spends to her will and desires Versus how you're gonna be fighting against orcs Is this the kind of Like is they've never been over there before so for all they know That's the fighting standard. They're going to go and meet as soon as they get to middle earth They don't know she's truly that exceptional. So if they go over and expect that Holy shit, there's so much over there that we've just not trained or prepared for that could be Hitting Like these guys aren't fighting like that elf at all like, oh Yeah Pretty stupid doesn't it's mainly just to show off Yeah, and there's so many things that she could have done that actually would have made sense for the law like say Uh orcs, they don't respond to pain the way that you'd think so you have to go for an instant kill They'll keep fighting even with chopped off limbs or kind of things or or say orcs. They're very single minded creatures They'll always attack you. Yeah They'll attack say down a straight line. So if you move laterally and get around them You can flank them and hit them on the side There's so many things you could do that makes sense But instead she's like you suck. I'm great That like do orcs typically do these like dodgers and everything and there's like a ninja So someone i'm uh showing right now is this is when he first starts attacking her and she's doing the dodgers because she's so fucking cool Look at this strike here for a second there. This is getting me lost. So like didn't he hit her? He's like swinging and shooting up and she only dodges After it lands if you will Hang on on top of that. He's doing exactly what she said She's stabbing it. She's showing him that it doesn't work. So why didn't you tell it to stab? Because that's how you kill orcs not elves. Yeah elves don't work that way. So this is relevant to orc trading This is really it's it's yeah orcs are stab twist gut now orcs Those are twist gut stab. All right and elves are gut stab twist. He needs to gut first. Yeah Yeah, it's it's like you got to know the patterns for every enemy that you're fighting. It's it's very Class she was leading them into making this kind of wonder they should have been Like he's so clever He pokes to the top left and then pulls the sword right back and goes back to like a neutral stance As opposed to just bringing the sword down on her and then she's dead I point out that exactly they don't follow up any strikes with anything from he just has to reset And because what she does is so stupid and they're acting like she's so great But roller i point that out in my uh fight seat or top seat if you just struck down from that position She'd be cut in two but she's acting like i'm so great when no it's because he's acting like a completely new Did you call it on her expression? Look at that like If he'd stop the stomach right at the start she'd be dead because she doesn't dodge enough And then his immediate reaction is to go straight for her face Which would just kill her if she like these are practice swords, right? Or are they just made to look like practice? Are they actually It's surely it's not normal to do like practice fighting like this with real swords Everything though, that's like the real fake sword where real People practice they fucking practice with the real deal the sharp steel Well, yeah, because like what if he actually does hit you like you might be in some serious trouble I mean he does if you blunt a sword and you stab it in someone's face that's going in Like there's no way that's protected Narrowly deflects it and still cuts through her uh her clothing. So it's probably a real sword It's a real And what what happens if like when you hold it up to someone's neck they sneeze and accidentally cut their jugular It's like whoops I was fine because allendials having fun. Okay, and that's all man And look she holds the blunt end of the sword to him and people might say Oh, it's intentional, but later on the fight she holds the sharp end of the sword to someone as well So just goes to show that she's not paying attention to her edge position at all Oh, so it's probably mine, but like she's probably have a head side in like a ponytail. No, it looks cooler if it flows looks Missing as well is painful and he just Well, there was one before where he swung and she like did a little like she she dodges like I feel like if you just swung back you would have got her like if you would just followed it through by swinging again That would have been she look here sharp edge now on him where before it was the blunt edges It's fun. What's that swing? So she can't even see the swing to dodge it So she has no idea if she's about to walk backwards into a blade coming straight at it Have you considered that he has all information? At all times Have you yeah, have you considered this is choreographed poorly and the camera Dude, this guy go in for that hit almost like as a surprise attack as well It's just like damn careful like we really are getting close to kill a girl. Not that that's a problem Yeah, he goes to stab his mate. I'm sure with that one. He doesn't go for her I don't know what he was aiming at then. She didn't move much to dodge. It's like he just aimed at the floor I mean she is so smug throughout all of this You can see why they might end up wanting to kill her if if I were doing anything sport whatever And the person I was playing against wore the expression she wears when she's going through this I think yeah, I am actually going to love this sneak a cue at your face by the end of this game I was really surprised that they actually had him tagging Um, I really didn't expect that when I first saw this that she would get tagged. I was like, oh my god Wow I would have thought maybe that she would allow it to happen on purpose so that she You know gives them some level of hope or something not that it happened against her will They might have been going for that though Maybe Oh, this little elbow sends the guy for like He's gone He's flying Her strength compared to your own guys is to just like swing these wide horizontal swings like that when you're in this melee Like she must have 20 times the strength or something because she's blocking full on strikes with the most gentlest of taps And especially when they don't wear with her face Her strength must be Right, how would you not have that face when you are just a god person compared to everyone else in every regard? Oh, I feel like I'd just be bored all the time Yeah Well, it's just you know, what we learn from Saitama is that if you're like all powerful and nobody can defeat you You just walk you just falls over for no reason. Yeah So and what this guy's aiming for the middle of them. Yeah I uh, I find it really lame when people say that if you slow down every fight soon that they fall apart It's just not He opens his arm He walks into the sword again, how did you do that? You had all that time to prep and you just go Oh god, it's so bad Parable And it feels like it shouldn't be this bad. You should be able to this is like the one sword fight They've probably had to deal with them like that's so much money You know, like well, they said much money The director spoke about it. He said this was really easy because of all the time they'd put into practice We didn't have to use any face doubles or anything. So we filmed it in about a day They actually practice to look that shit Well, ryan johnson said the exact same thing about the throwing fight He said that they nailed it so hard and they're experimenting a bit or whatever Didn't they do it like once he filmed it from multiple angles and they were pretty much good to go Or that he filmed them doing it several several times and it got all because they were just so fucking good at it He knew that they had it even though it's trying to like for a while stimulate You know a wanna Like like when the when the fight starts and you can clearly see all the errors and it's like, yeah, but it's a wanna Like yeah, but the whole point is that you nail the errors. You don't make errors That's the whole fucking point that makes a one or impressive And even Even says it was such an easy film to see that not only didn't not take a day But the scene that comes later between her and hellbrand also took a day So those they seems those as I man, that's not the brag I only spent a day filming that's not a brag because they're so good for me. It only took 11 days to write the script Well, it's it's fine. Do you see that? She almost kills him. What? Yeah, he just dodges the sword. Good on him. Honestly, she would have killed her She knew it. She she's like I have assessed his combat capabilities. He's operating at 76 Maximum potential He will slow at air inertia level b 0.6 She's like a computer a super computer untouchable I just uh I decided to look it up because when you mentioned the one is so the the hallway fight and dead level season one They only had two days to rehearse it and half a day to film it It's like mad and they had a lot less money than you and look how it turned out. Holy fuck He's discipline. They must have had Well, it's just um, what is the When I look at this fight, I'm not even sure what it is that's meant to be really exciting and cool about it Is it that they're fighting in like kind of a bizarre and they're fighting through are they all useless? Because it's not very impressive if they're all supposed to be useless right now Like they're not trained at all, which is the thing that we're trying to figure out. She's amazing You know what she said then she says don't plant roots keep moving. That's what they'll be doing the whole time. They've been Feed a bit firmer and focus on where they're just trying to hit things because they like I don't see the appeal of a fight scene where it's just like abs Ah, okay, so I am just going to keep talking about how much I like the dead of all ones The reason why that everybody likes those so much is particularly because he gets tired like it's really clear that this Forum it's hard Like there's parts where they they all get so exhausted that they have to take like five sexes to catch their breath Like what's really endearing about it is that it is such an uphill battle That he has to work really hard to claim that victory, but here it's effortless It's easy. Is that the point like oh, isn't it cool how like effortless it is to beat all of these people I don't really find anything like particularly enthralling about watching this fight It's just a bunch of idiots flailing around while she's doing all of these weird twirls and these strange like moves I don't get it. I don't I don't know what the I don't know why this is really cool. They want to make it was cool I guess like if you think that she's cool, then this probably was a really fun scene. I guess but You're supposed to come away with a sense of awe about what her capabilities. How amazing she is it's set up everything that she can do in the future So the one yeah The one that came to my mind when I was watching this the first time is sort of it's morpheus training neo In the matrix and you you have that bit where the shipmates go around. I think you said morpheus Morpheus is fighting neo. Yeah, it's it's morphing time. Um, no They go around they go around and they say that morpheus are fighting it This is a really really big and impressive thing But the reason that that's a big and impressive thing is that there's actually two characters that you care about So when morpheus is sort of bigging himself up by showing his skills You're also learning something more about another very important character in neo, which gives you more to invest in If you're just having galadriel besting a load of Non-entities and people will never see again or people whose names you won't ever remember What is the point here? It is just a grand eyes in galadriel. That's the only purpose of this Which the show has done non-stop anyway in every single one of her scenes. So that makes it dramatically unnecessary Why don't you brought up the matrix because um, like why is it so cool? And and great when when at the end of the film neo is like deflecting all of agent myths like attacks with one hand Why is that so cool? It's like well This is like the culmination of a journey that he's had across the film of like getting more competent And getting better and better. And so like that's a really cool payoff. This isn't really a payoff. This is like, um I'm not really sure what I would describe Well, this is an inexperienced trainees and she's like, I'm so amazing. She's rubbing their noses in it It's if anything it's not complimentary at all Because you're right like that they've already established how amazing she is And so if anything this scene is just made to show you how Befunishly incompetent the new minorians are it's like, oh, uh, that's what you want us to think about them Well done because now that I just think they're complete idiots. Good. Good work. Let us Can you imagine if pair right? The but you go first you go first Can you imagine if you were coaching like a football team of five year olds and you were just kicking the ball around them at Speed and you were just this smog little like look how amazing I am You just grab all the time and I tell the one of them cries because of the way That's the scene kind of like um in the south park episode when stan was coaching like the Yeah, the little league hockey team and then they go and play against like a professional hockey team and just get obliterated Yeah It's kind of the vibe of this as well, isn't it because she's there just like taunting them as she effortlessly defeats them That that aren't stand a chance And It's a trope in character writing if you want to make a character hateable you show them in this way You don't do it because you want people to like them But there's an old far show sketch with the hyper competitive dad Who just takes every single sport against his kids massively seriously They play cricket and he beats them by 15 000 runs and he's just he's incredibly proud of himself for doing this But you're supposed to hate him You're not supposed to like him and that's the exactly the like the feeling I get every time I see gladiola on screen just think I really really really cannot stand you and the show seems to love you so much And I don't understand why Well to me it feels like this is you know wish fulfillment from the creators or someone because isn't they're like a producer That looks for a lot like gladiola where they just want, uh, you know Pretend that they are so wonderful and they're better than everyone they got It's a vibe like I guess I just um, I've never really understood the appeal of that I've always I like I thought that we generally agreed that what often makes a character interesting Is their flaws and the journey to sort of overcoming those flaws and becoming a better person Broglin, you know growing to struggle Yeah, I mean struggle and adversity. It's what makes the uh, it's what makes the victory so cathartic It's um the uphill battle. But I mean we underdog stories, right rather than You're just fantastic at everything and nobody else stands a chance. It's like, what are we what are we here to see And I mean, you know, I guess in the case of gladiola can be it's like, well Yeah, it's a fighter. There's not much that she needs to develop on but it's more so her personal journey But I mean, I don't know what Well, then you'll said the first one to score flash He didn't score flash cuts address. He scored. He scored cotton. I guess like close enough You get to me Doesn't seem like It's like you said what is being a lieutenant is uh, because lieutenant is second at captain, right? Is that isn't that the uh, isn't it captain lieutenant? I'm mixing my it's you're you're an officer like you're a one up from just so as a sergeant then lieutenant then captain I uh, I'll just wikipedia. Come on. Help me out. I I presumed that it's the same in middle earth Yeah, so there's captain, then there's lieutenant, uh, or first lieutenant and second lieutenant Um, oh, yeah, so you basically second Uh, like you're nearly a captain. So you you are You're you make decisions like, you know, you make tactical decisions on the battlefield Yeah, he gets it because the fact that he hit her when she was off guard She was fighting three other people like hmm like if anything the most important The most important thing when it comes to deciding who's going to be a lieutenant is their ability to command the people beneath them Rather than their strict fighting capabilities Yeah Like everyone's cheering him like he just did something really impressive and you got you got a cheap shot against an opponent Who's just not facing you. Oh, come on. Yeah, you're right. I'm pretty sure because I'd have to check him But she wasn't fey when he started the attack. She wasn't facing him, right He doesn't flip around or whatever and it's while she's attacking. I just yeah, it's it's bullshit It being like unduly charitable to the writers I think the intended effect might have been to say well, this is this is actually a way of Encouraging brotherhood amongst the new minorians. Oh my god. This one guy has Actually accomplished this and so this makes them look more kindly toward him It's establishing camaraderie between them But even that doesn't work from sort of the show's well-building perspective because these people don't really have any Reason to understand just exactly what beating collagial entails because they've been turning away elven ships And they've never met any of them. So it's not as big a deal as it should be for them to have that reaction to it Um, I like how they store the swords in the scabbards You're right Keep the blades open where people might run into and cut themselves and we the scabbards are right there Just see them and put them away. Wait, what is going on with this guy dagger? Yeah, which where are my eyes fucking with me? What's going on here? Isn't that behind a pillar? Sword behind the pillar Oh Oh, sorry. Yeah, fuck my eyes were really fucking with me for a second there. I thought that was that's the dagger in full or something Yeah, okay. I got you. It's behind. She's never touching off with a little dagger like that. No Anyway, what I wanted to just I just saw it and I was I was fascinated by it because I remember Because going through it nice and slowly you get to see more stuff More is getting all just true When when whole brand does this super cool Kick up the sword to grab it thing. I was immediately thinking like, yeah You wouldn't be able to do that if it were just on the floor, right? Because there's no way a sword's hilt is going to push it up hard enough you to fit a whole foot underneath it so Like how is it that he manages to pull that off and then at first I was like Oh, is it just lucky the sword landed on what begins the steps up to the You know up the way there or something because that's just yeah, that's nice and convenient for that I was like was even more absurd really they show you a like a split second of the floor Look at that. They designed a bit of stone to be that absurdly protruded in order to get his foot underneath Oh, you're right. Yeah, that's pretty funny That's a terrible floor. Look, it's all over the place dude. That is a huge tripping hazard Just how did the stone base and fuck that up so hard? Like Places where that's well, too. Maybe it happened after he put it down. It's we don't know how old it is Who knows what could have had maybe a root grew underneath there Or maybe it was just fucking attracted to the to the gravity Black hole that is the charisma of gladiator. I think that if it gets to that point, you need to get it sorted out Is that sword bending? Uh, I guess the sword bend they do bend a little bit, right? Yeah, they got flexed but also in motion that looks like they can bend as well Just because the perspective like I was looking at some slow motion footage of me cutting water bottles And while the sword is in motion, this straight sword looks like it's curving nearly 90 degrees Oh, yeah, that really got bad during one of those frames that was I don't know if it's because is this it could be cgi from to able to be able to nail that move I can't believe he it's real and he I This is an isolation so you could just practice it until you it's like peter with the pizza. You can just keep practicing it over and over It's not like it's part of a bigger scene Like a small like catching a sword spinning like that is no indication of actual sword skill in any measure It's like I was gonna ask about why they'll make you a lieutenant I'll say if you can flip this sort of like tony hawk and catch it Then I'll make you Lastly, you know rather than practical To show how basic it is in my review I go outside and just throw a sword and spin it in the air and catch it It's so freaking easy, right? But they're acting like wow, you're a master swordsman now It's just so unnecessary and become quite it falls on the ground on a nicely protruded, you know like Bit of like tiling you can kick it and then catch it in your hand because that's going to be real useful When you're in the middle of a massive battle. Yeah, there's lots of protruding rocks When you're even says like I don't think many blacksmith people can do that It's like no if if you're around swords all the time. I guarantee it just Remember will turner and pirates carry any who's obsessed with swords because he loved making them and practicing with them Like the idea that it's like smiths. They know anything about swords. It's like, yeah, maybe yeah The only thing that lets do 24 hours a day seven days a week is smithing and nothing else They never just know to play with the sword That's what I mean like do anything else in their life It doesn't sound absurd to me at all that they would test their own work to see how sharp or efficient it is and then just They would have some level of swordplay knowledge She's goading him into accepting that he's more than the station he says that he wants but Doing it in such a way that doesn't actually conform to the setup because this show doesn't understand Would it just come across as patronizing because he should be like, oh, yes I've the odley smith. Have you even met a smith before glad real you're too proud like would you ever lower yourself to see a smith? Probably not I would like to I I guess Well before we move on let's uh, let's compare this scene with uh to remind ourselves of something good Before a battle was going to happen at helms deep. We had aragorn Who met a guy? I think like hamleth was his name? I forget Young kid He's nervous, you know and and so he doesn't you know, he doesn't show off He doesn't use us as an opportunity to show how amazing is and how how cooly is he offers reassuring words And he says, you know, you've got got something good here You know that don't you know, don't worry. We got this. He's very encouraging. He's he's being a leader He's not trying to show off. It's not about it's not about me. Me. Me aren't I amazing aren't I amazing? Funnily enough, it was a meme created on the lord of the rings memes subreddit The ad it was supposed to be pro rings of power And it shows aragorn doing that with sword and the rink and the sword is rings of power And then he says this is a good show and everyone's like, whoo, yay fun meme everyone's like wait You do understand in context What was happening in that moment, right? He was like trying to provide a sense of hope and the reassurance this kid who's got a sword that's Not exactly fantastic. It's not even close. Actually he's beaten the fuck up. It's like super old but it's Facing near certain death. Yes So it's just like did you mean for your meme to be as accurate as it is? I don't think so But uh, we call them happy accidents Now off to pharazon back to Scheming I said to rags after the scene it feels like uh When you watch house of the dragon, which is very much like trying to focus hard on political intrigue when it comes to fantasy show about different houses and interests and motivations and stuff This is like mcdonald's version where it's just this one guy who has like this very simplistic sort of Point of view that we've only ever heard of like right now Despite the being this many hours into the series um Because like they do this thing where they start talking about things that are a little bit more complicated And he like looks around and everyone just leaves like he has that level of power and it's just like oh That probably would have been neat in like a good show like that he Is an understanding of pharazon's influence, you know But I say his name even from a sense of like I think it was wasn't it last stream When you were here a little platoon I kept asking you what his name was because it took this long for me to remember it It's like you need like it's crazy to be that he's going to be this uh level of an important figure And this is pretty much the first scene where we get to understand something about his character Um, yeah, that sucks. He'll go on to be or he should go on to be like probably the pivotal character. Um And yet I mean even even this scene though is yes The first time we actually hear or see anything really about his character and his motives but even that sort of undercuts itself because The only reason he's telling his son all of this stuff is presumably because he views his son as some kind of protege Um, and it's not the first time that he's sort of shared information with his son in this way If you're a skilled and canny politician And you're trying to bring up your son to be a skilled and canny politician You will know what information to give him and what information not to give him because you should already know What he thinks and what his values are and game of thrones would have done this and house of the dragons would have done this There's no reason for far as I'm not to know that his son doesn't agree with him about the war by this point But if he does know that then he has no reason to be telling him any of this information Really and he should have done something about it before then because this just this almost presents it as though These characters who are father and son and are both supposedly either skilled or aspiring politicians have never met each other Except for maybe one or two occasions in the last however long it's been And so all of this information which should already be known is coming as first time information to Both of them or one of them at least it doesn't make any sense from a character perspective And it makes our our pharisen even seem very naive to be trusting his son with this stuff Given what his son then goes on to do which pharisen should have known he would because it's his son and he's skillful at this No Odd dude that you're reminding me of um, I'm not sure how many people even be aware of what I'm talking about here I'm not sure who's seen what but um Ruth Bolton was someone I actually like kind of vaguely enjoyed in terms of a mind in westeros that was More invested in doing the absolute most pragmatic decisions to get power And like he knows how to manipulate people He knows where his station is and he'll always just he's climbing the ladder nice and slow But he's also a cruel bastard It's killed by his own son. It's like Okay He was like hyper aware of his son's interests and his goals and there's even like an implication that he's like He's aware that you'll try and kill him and then he's just like he's just yeah, he killed him He's like, oh Well, that's not very satisfying It's just like I don't know why you set that up that way until that point He almost guards against that happening as well from what I remember which makes it just seem even more of an out of character Move but the same dynamic the same dynamic should be in play here But isn't because this show It doesn't really it doesn't really understand what game of thrones is it just kind of likes that it happened and it's it's using Sort of the most superficial Aspects of construction that game of thrones deployed and it's just saying that we can do it too Um, it's no you can't this is like sports day for preschool kids compared to you know, the olympics in terms of the quality on show And the reason he's telling his son in the first place is I got the feeling like you can't Compartmentalize the idea stuff because he's like well, you don't need to know this But when he starts to doubt it he tells him the information to convince him But then in the very next scene he's even heard the reasons he's heard the arguments You'd think that would be enough to get him on board and then just goes against it And doesn't actually seem to have a reason why except i'm doing this because of a girl Correct. Yeah. Yeah, and this is insane because it's an act of terrorism He could like he could have been killing people I didn't really check how many people might have been on board the boat And it's insane that he went to that extreme. Where was that? It's treason as well. I mean It was the scene where pharas on finds out that two of the ships are destroyed And then he goes to see his son and he's like so you just happened to be in the area when a huge sabotage happened on our Attempts to you know begin this war. Is that is that what were you doing there? And then he goes I was fishing that's the official story and he's like fishing Really one of them was fishing Then at no point do they explain why the sun's out there He actually gives an excuse for the person he's with but not himself That's what i'm saying. Like it's it's so stupid. They've missed out because that's like that's like interesting To have pharas on figure out his son was the saboteur and then to actually talk to him about it But not, you know, you know, let people know and kick his ass for it verbally, but we didn't get it and hell pharas on has a vested interest in using Things like acts of terrorism to further his own position. So again as a competent political sort of nefarious type What you could have done to sort of to start teasing what he will become I imagine in later episodes and seasons is to look at you've had this act of terrorism He didn't necessarily plan for it, but he's absolutely going to use it for his advantage So you can take that as the opportunity to start locking up his political opponents, for example Or like anyone he knows might not be on his side But to do all of that though You'd probably have needed to actually build out numinal to have other characters that we would recognize as being imprisoned The main overarching problem with numinal is that it's it's it's an empty city It's a shallow place. It looks very pretty There's maybe two people in it who have character and there's a couple of other people who are only there because they need to be for the plot to happen But there's no actual It wouldn't matter if if pharas on actually did a politically savvy thing like you're capitalizing on an act of treachery because What's the consequence on a character level? We don't know anyone. Um, it's it's The problem it's been building up this problem for such a long time by not spending any time or effort building out The actual city it's supposed to you know, be telling us is so important It's it's like so many missed opportunities, but that's one of the big ones Yeah, imagine He learns about his son and he gives up his son in order to curry political favor with people Like he considers that more important Well, he keeps his son on side by arresting Say, I don't know a seal that this probably wouldn't work But just spitballing a sealed of sister Who his son likes and his son goes and confronts him about it and he says otherwise that would have been you Yeah, so these are the lengths to which you have to go and the sacrifices you will have to make I'm getting you off this time and I will not do it again And then he's not seen as being sort of taken aback by it Which he ends up being He just sort of panics or seems to panic and the one scene we get after the explosion When he says oh, maybe we should actually call off the invasion after all which he himself called for him to begin with So yeah, and a sabotage wouldn't at all change his mind when the reasoning is as he's explained in this scene It's also Confusingly fucked after they they do something that I appreciate right telling us his motivation like finally Thank you. And then everything else that follows. You're like wait what? Like Don't understand you get like one second of continuity that it all just gets fucked Yeah, they tried to insinuate that because that happened It meant that the like he'd misjudged the people and he'd actually lost control of them And so he wanted to stay and solidify power before Yeah, and see and I think if he had even half the brain cells that they're trying to argue He does he would have figured out immediately was his son. His son happened to be there And even if he didn't everyone else would have done. Yeah, that's true. No, I think a saboteur did it was like Well, was anyone there? Well, these two people swam out the ocean. Okay. It's one of them So one of them by the way who's frustrated that he didn't get the role he wanted in this war. It's like They both of them have a motive to do that and the other two people who were there And yet the line that's delivered is is it just we suspect at the moment It might have been a passing brigand and then everyone's just moves on. Yep. It's insane that they just Someone made that up. Just a guy A guy just walked in and he was a dick and he exploded half our fleet and that's bad But moving on what what passing brick surely that the question to us then is wait a minute There are brigands around and they've actually got actors to our courts Isn't this an important thing to know that we should be forestalling ourselves against? But apparently not that's just because the show couldn't be asked And as we said in chat, the sea is always right Simple as that If your boat explodes then Well, we want the sea one to this So it's what the sea one has That just went up into the into the boat and was like, I don't like this lamp here I prefer it in the oil The sea always gets water once What a stupid like It's retarded. It is so Get to it Even that if you give them the the most generous of interpretations I think the return they're talking about one of the valar which is sort of the god of the oceans I think that's where it comes from But they never explain any of this and so it just comes across as a crazy comments Yeah, it sounds like a culty comment With it's like anything that happens in the sea was was the correct thing Even if it involves fucking drowning people or destroying ships, you're just like that's uh Interesting The pov like you can use it to justify whatever the hell you want if you're anything you see if it happens like You know, I attacked this boat and I killed everyone bored, but the sea let happened. Therefore. I'm justified Yeah, and it's also I guarantee you go ahead that The first thing that the showrunners would do if you brought up the whole will gladrile jumped into the ocean That would have like been bleat suicide just doing that because there's no issue But well, you know the valar of the sea actually pushed her and the boats together because he knows that's what's needed And they he also made the new minorians meet them at the same time When you go in that I think that's why they keep pushing this whole There's a greater power at work because it literally gives you an excuse for everything no matter what the problem is No matter how stupid it is. It's always a fallback exclusive Well, it needed to happen and so they made it happen I actually made this point quite early on I think in the video I did on episodes one and two That almost is the valar of the sea I think and I'm like uniquely of all of the valar He's very involved in the events of middle earth even into like the second age where most of them have retreated And I used it in the context of yeah her jumping off but also in the raft exploration because it's a way of tying it Into the grander universe that the show wants us to believe exists because it does keep referencing these characters It keeps referencing these concepts. It keeps telling us the valar exists and they have They have will and they have a degree of agency And probably probably at least or these they should be invoking them much more heavily when it does come to something like the destruction of nomenor So like that's your opportunity to start Actually tying these things together tying the sea is always right to or mode because that's where he comes from He's uniquely involved in the events of the world and has very much He has a great sort of determinative capacity So that's when you would do it, but the show hasn't tied any of these things together It just name drops them I think as we said earlier just to trick some people into thinking it respects the law more than it does But it doesn't marry them So they almost operate independently of each other which then creates nonsense like the sea is always right And then later when we hear other things that happened in the sea and certain notable people who died it Well, okay, but the sea was always right. So we can't regret that can't we? Yeah, I think it's literally to create as I've said that an army of people who use the vagueness of the story Which is there deliberately to generate just excuses of oh, you just don't comprehend you can't comprehend this You just don't know enough, but if you were as big-brained as I was then you'd know that actually this story is really deep and complex And it aims to just shut people up by that kind of base attack. Yeah So Another reason so he makes clear it's about getting the The oars forest trade and tribute from the new sort of like kingdom that'll be built on top of the Ruler being added for the men in the southlands, right? That's what's farisons. Like we'll have a great partner. There's a great reason to do all this. They'll owe us That's that's his whole reasoning And this is why I feel like it's completely limited as a political move compared to better shows of better writing. It's like What is farisons understanding? Of the population over there. What does he know about them? How many there are and their likelihood of even surviving how splintered they are this guy and whether or not he can Leave them and unite them Does he know anything about this? Does he know what resources they even have access to as a As a vague group Does he know anything about anything over there? Or is he just like now if we help them, they'll be loyal to us He can't ask that question because that question is very inconvenient because if he does already know this stuff Then why has he not already advocated going and setting up trade in places in middle earth? Which he should have done anyway because in the law he did Like numinora is is intimately involved in in middle earth But yeah, like if he asks any of those questions then he would already have done the thing He's now decided he will do belatedly having opposed it for Virtually the opposite reasons until this point I would like to go and fetch a drink really quick, but uh, oh crags if you're here wine or lamp oil Why not up upon why not both I can make a fireworks display Yeah, you've not got any naked flames drink see light on fire Yeah, I mean all that happens next is that uh, the king is like don't go daughter queen region It'll be dark over there. And she's like Okay, oh this scene I know it's a really small scene this one Irritated me because it's like it's a really really good example of the show's approach to dialogue Like it does nothing with it until it has to do something portentous to move the plot along So like she goes to speak to vegetable king over here And then she's like it was good news We're going because you know, we had the vision and this is going to save numinal But now it's time for us to get very serious again So he just says if you go you will find darkness and then But so one of the things it hasn't done is really explain or show Whether he's been driven to this state by his visions through the planterie that they have That would have been a useful thing to have set up because it explains his current condition But it might also explain why he knows the things that he seems here to know But then also she doesn't ask any questions about it because if he has been seeing visions through the planterie Just as she has and he's come away with this interpretation. This should cause her to stop Yeah You're right. Like that would be a massive red flag for her, but she's like, oh, you're okay. You're fine It's fine. It's okay. Whatever And then it also contradicts what the show has been trying to say what the Greater, you know will is to save numinal because the the pedals of the tree was indicating go go off to sales Help them and now the father has the visions is like, no, you'll find darkness and evil. It's like, all right, then What is the show trying to tell us now? I don't know the show even knows what it's trying to You know, like I don't know what the what it meant to make of all this This whole plot line is it seems to be just the most I don't know is it it might It's tough to well, I mean it's uh Something that became really I think it was when in episode six. We didn't see the hobbits again. It's like We we are not moving very far at all Given how we're not balancing our plots. It feels Uh, we're definitely not balancing them because some plots seem like pretty obviously to the story and then there are other ones that are just sort of um Sort of meandering about elsewhere I'm I'm just I'm persistently baffled by how much time gets wasted in this show for what What at this point we're up to like five hours How much has really been achieved and how much that could have been achieved in in two with more expeditious writing um, not only that What has been achieved is founded on complete Stupidity like oh, yeah to the mark of sarah. It's really a map and we had it here for the whole time And no one bloody bothered to read and all this like the plot that has been you know move forward is just nonsense It is and I think um it especially by episode six that I think um generally it seems to be a mark of a week story when it's it's tied together by like like um Knitting string or something like really thin like an incredibly thin tenuous Connection between two part, you know two pieces of the broader story And like the long the hobbits and or the harfits and the new horse stuff I mean the clearest example to me would be not checking the rag to see that the hill to besword But we'll get to that but like um, you know these incredible coincidences Because I mean think about this whole plot kicked off because when galadriel jumped out of the boat She bumped into another boat in the middle of a massive ocean And then they got bumped into by the new minorians and then that's led to everything that's happened here Like it's incredibly tenuous everything that's built on it And then it gets further propelled by characters making these really bizarre stupid decisions Not really talking to each other um It's uh It's it's so weak And in galadriel's entire story She only ever moves from place to place because of her contrivance every single aspect of it is contrived And she finds the northern fortress where she happens to find the mark of saurom that she saw She goes back and she happens to get told she's going back to valinor So she goes on the ship and she just decides randomly What happens to decide what that symbol means? Happens to decide to jump into the ocean happens to decide what happens to be a raft that picks her up Happens to be katulu's gay fish happens to be new minorians ship Happens to be conversation with elendil in new minor that sent her to a library Where they happen to have the piece of information that makes sense of the symbol Where they happen to have the map which makes sense of the symbol Where they happen to go back and get into an argument with the girl It's just the entire thing is just and this is sort of it's a double problem when you when you're writing a thing like this Because if you are wasting so much of your time doing nothing for large periods Then you don't have enough time to actually build out these events to make them seem less contrived because you can you can sort of modify the effects of Contrivances if you want to you can pad things around them that make them seem at least a little bit more Explicable, but if you're saving it to the last 10 minutes of every hour long episode to actually progress anything that the plot needs to happen Then of course you're going to have to rush things and it's it just it actually it's getting worse as this show goes on I mean episode six will be the the sort of the media so far, but i'm sure episode seven will be worse Well, I think um what what you've highlighted is essentially there is an absence of clear causality that's propelling the plot It's tripod and matt stone the you know, but therefore instead of and and then and then and then and then and then Which is kind of what this story is Yeah, you do not get a strong sense of one thing leads to this thing leads to this thing that it's all Connected in some way as you were saying about gladiola coming out of that boat Jumping out into finding that rafts like all of that has led to the rescue of the the southlands or well rescuer first Which we assume is not her plan from the start So it's just oh, I guess i'm here. I'll have them fight the for the I guess she didn't even meet uh Whole brand then so her her mission was to go back to middle earth Yeah, I suppose. What was it? What exactly was her plan? She wanted to jump back on because she she thought her fight hadn't finished So she was going to jump and swim thousands of miles back without being killed Yeah, the only reason once she gets there It's another contrivance Which is that she happens to bump into the raft which happens to have the guy on it Who happens to be from the southlands who happens to relay the information? She needs to know that that's where the orcs are If you know the mist the mist clears 10 seconds after she's there all of this doesn't happen But that's writing Yeah, her whole motivation is I want to find sarah and I want to kill orcs Yeah, and luckily for her who she bumped into happens to fulfill that goal Kind of nuts and it makes for incredibly satisfying storytelling right guys. Yeah, I'm so glad we didn't what was her original plan That is her original plan up in the water She didn't she she knew she'd get picked up. No. No. No her original plan was to go back to land and start hunting orcs and sarah on again What what we're saying is her bike. Yeah, whatever it doesn't happen, right? She's crazy But uh, I guess yeah, well, she might go back to gilgill hadn't been like listen I've thought about it And I have my armor back also some men also just let me go we'll get to that stuff. I'm not sure she would No, she might not do she might literally just wander around middle earth asking if anyone knows where sarah on is Well in this same episode she says that they couldn't Perceive a difference between they sent me away. I was betrayed by them They sent me away because they couldn't differentiate me from the evil I was hunting So I think she's accepted at this point They can't stand her and she's not going to get anything from her. So I think she'd literally go off on her own gladiator's like, you know, this keeps happening with all the people that I try and hang out with It's like, hmm If you've ever considered there's an x-factor there gladiator. He's like, yes sarah on you're like, right It's everybody else not me um, so we're back with the the half-foot and Gandalf not Gandalf is like healing quote unquote his hand I don't fucking know what he's doing. He's freezing water with his hand in a little pool And then nori is like wow you're freezing your hand. I better grab it um Yeah, like you'd assume if there's a mage next to you that he would understand what he's doing with the magic He went off on his own to be away from everybody So he couldn't injure anybody and she comes along inserts herself Touches his arm and then afterwards when there's a backlash blames him for it and the actors even said themselves Oh, this is where she realized that actually he might be evil and she assumed he was good But no this shows that's actually he's bad after all It's like no this is your problem your fault and you did all of the wrong things and now you're blaming him for it That is what this seems meant to show that he could be evil Like in the middle of cutting down a tree and someone just jumps in the way of the axe and they're like wow you're evil If you ever want this show to get even worse the the deadline break downs at the end Make everything even more of a disastrous of just the actors talking about it. I could imagine Uh somehow at this point, it's like a 95 percent guarantee that uh That the the act is talking about the thing will make it worse not better This is a very odd way to heal a hand as well Yeah, I agree. I agree Don't intuitively connect freezing your hand to healing What's the I think it's more than using the refreshing power of of experiment Like when he came down his fire was cold. And so this is cold. So I imagine that's like the element of his strength or something What was he doing? It doesn't even look like she's trying to drag him out of the water Which by the way horrible idea because you'll just rip off his arm if you understand this As was said it's just like this is a crazy magic man from space. Let him do his thing woman What are you doing? Let the magic man cast his spell. He clearly knows what he's doing He's calm and he's saying the magic words Keep your hands off It was so unfortunate because once again the show was like, yes, nori is indeed dead and we were like, oh, okay and then she wasn't yes Triumphantly it was magic ice, which means it's not cold. It's just nothing During this entire scene she's got a second arm that she does absolutely nothing I'd be like smacking him in the face like wake up you stupid like no no I'm just gonna stand here and pull gently It's like it's dead the way this scene runs like it's just yeah, that's not an arm that she can do Oh, there it goes. She's maybe now using it. Oh, maybe she eventually grabs her old arm with the arm But I'd be like if you try to wake him up like slap him or do something. This is my new arm That was my old arm. I don't want to play with you anymore. Who knows if it's a real arm at this point Oh, they should yeah, see they do flashes of his fiery landing. They really are like hey audience You know, you thought Ada was Sauron. What if it's the wizard man and then they're gonna be like turns out it wasn't either of them Yeah, she said this is like her realization that he's in some kind of trance like state He doesn't care about her and he's not in control of himself. That's what you're supposed to get from this And I can see them doing that more often I think there's a couple of characters. Galadriel is another one of those where they're gonna sort of play around with the The flirtation with darkness sort of aspect with it And if he's just arrived and it's not in full control either of his language or his brain or his magic He is of the same order of being as Sauron is Power corrupts is a fairly simple narrative device you can use and they will claim that that's what talking wanted as well So you can sort of flirt with the idea of steve here becoming You know, well, maybe maybe he'll turn evil even if he isn't Sauron He maybe he has things to learn about what being good actually entails And you you could do interesting things with that It's just that I think they're only doing this again because they want to keep the mystery alive. Is he in fact Sauron? No, he's almost certainly not but Yeah, which we have to run with it because they thought they had that really good idea and that's the only one they've got Yeah, it's like if you take the language thing that um He didn't understand language until she was saying the words But then the concepts that she intended came across into his mind You could do an almost kind of imprinting stage nature Nurture that he came down as a blank slate and his first experiences of what would make him into the person he was They could do that, but I don't I don't think they have the talent It's always interesting being the ones like sitting here and saying well, they could do this This might be good. This might be quite a clever thing to do It almost guarantees they will not do it because that requires That's true rules it out. I always felt it's an indication that we would never any of us in a position of we will hate this no matter What it's like we keep doing like oh, why don't you had your all the things you needed to do this? Why didn't you do that? I would like that, but I won't it's bad It's poorly made Very I think they start with an end goal and try and reach it rather than start with an interesting idea and see how it plays out Yeah, I forgot to characterize people. How do you do that? Do that when you're doing when you focus on other things Yeah Um So yeah, I kind of I find it annoying that that's where this scene is going then that she's gonna be like Oh my god You're probably possibly evil when she has no reason to assume that at all when he's clearly Once this like if you thought for even a second like he must be evil because that was an attempt to hurt me or something It's like so why didn't he just like why would you even he's clearly like wait? What's going on? His method of hurting you was Put his hand in some water that's turning into ice and hope you would grab his hand and then also have your hand He deliberately leaves you What is he might be dangerous? This show is so retarded He approaches it Yeah, I wouldn't be sure if we get that scene like next episode. She's like, I don't trust you anymore You you hit me remember that by the final finale. She's like actually what you did was an accident Oh, like that they're gonna treat that as like a three episode arc or some shit Because she said that he was good and then maybe he wasn't so You could just see one of the writers be like this is what we call character writing Oh, yeah, you You could almost imagine if the writers were wait, they wrote this down on the white board. He smiled A lot of people wonder how we do this. Well, I could see that it does Why do you think that's the voice that the writers have more? Random voice plucked from the ether of voiceless, but I I'm almost sitting. That's the one hundred percent actually Yeah, off she runs now. We're over to the Bourvin elves storyline, which we haven't touched in a while last we saw them was When he was like keep my oath bitch Right, was that the last thing from the last I have a terrible secret. We'll have a piece of it And my god that gets developed real good and I can't wait to talk about some of the cope that was on twitter from this one so Yeah, we open with like hey durin uh from Gil galad he's like so why are you uh, why are you digging so deep lately? What's that about? Seems a little weird seems a little unusual. What's going on there? And then he's like, oh, yeah Well, why are the elves expanding so much? You guys don't usually do that so fast. What's going on there? I was like, hmm And then uh, elrond like interrupts him from saying shit This show was very impressed with itself for getting close to saying the word shit, which I was like, isn't aren't they allowed to say that? I guess they're trying to keep it They're like eyebrow Oh, that could be it They're on Not anymore, baby. He pretty much did say as elrond got in the way Uh, yeah, I know it's basically of saying it and also before and just to point out the horrible dialogue, right? Um, the king Gil galad he says durin. I should like to commend you But then he doesn't go on to commend him and he just ends up asking a question It's like Do they not understand what they're saying in their own dialogue and that they just jump from concept to concept without connection It's so frustrating this writing That's kind of what i'm getting at like like durin then goes on his table rant and uh before we talk about that It was like hang on mate like we got two questions that were asked there Nobody nobody's gonna know and but this scene does indeed end without any reference back to those two questions being asked Yeah, but that's why the table was mentioned It was meant to be like emotional blackmail of the table like look you're offending me and so he puts them This is their you know political intrigue moment that he's completely outplayed them by making them feel guilty So they forget the question that was asked I don't even know that well he had a question too that he I guess he didn't care for the answer for We've moved on I guess we're not going to answer either of the size questions because of this table thing which I have some criticisms of this whole table thing This might be the one time in the episode where we jump forward while addressing this because we need that one extra bit of information Okay, we do we do yep So for those who have no idea what i'm talking about durin is like This table is made of stone that is so rare that whenever we find it us dwarves We only ever use it for tombs and uh monuments like it's very sacred it grows He's a like it grows deep or only grows at certain Elevations Yeah, certain depths so If he's correct if that's true. He's implying that they must have grave robbed is the impression I got I know that's the impression I got as well It's like well, you know the stuff only grows in the places the dwarves are essentially so if you guys have it Goodness Yeah, it seems uniquely difficult to steal gravestones from because you have to get into their minds to find it That was actually something I was thinking about after it finished the episode It's just like how do you even it's not like they just pitched on some hills and left alone It's like stealing from dwarves is going to be real tough Uh, is it easier or harder than stealing a dragon egg? Oh, I don't even Okay, depends on the dragon I suppose so suppose so um But yeah, uh, I guess conclusion one if this is true And Gil-galad is entertaining it as true and knows it's true and is apologizing then that just makes the elves twats Like that's the that's one line of interpretation or conclusion I guess to make because nothing's really confirmed in that regard, but we already know the elves are twats, but yeah they are kind of It would just be like to know that as a truth. It's like, yeah, we grave rob sometimes in order to take stone We like it's like rough man But lucky durin's taken this so well if that's true. Okay. Yeah Second interpretation is the Gil-galad does not know whether or not that's true He has no idea where this stone is from and so he's just saying like man that That sucks. I'm sorry about that. You can you can have the table Which I think is the likely one that the writers want us to feel is the case He has no idea where this table's from. He's willing to Concede to durin that that's the case a little bit A little bit spineless, I think from Gil-galad, which is how he's been characterized so fast or whatever But just to be like is that the case? Yeah, you know, there's nothing about where this table came from You can't find out where it came from. He's just going to concede immediately that they did something pretty horrible because This guy is how many thousands of years old. He was probably around when they got the table He probably knows exactly where they got it. I was there when the rock was formed in the crust of the earth So I think Gil-galad is actually old enough to have seen the world become round actually. He's like he's that old He's there from the let me tell you things changed And so When we find out the actual, you know truth about this table Ruins everything because that means okay. Where did the table actually come from? It's much more likely that Gil-galad knows where it comes from and that this, you know, little trick during his playing wouldn't work at all It's just Yeah, when he asked the question, do you know where this comes from? It was a massive bluff and Gil-galad because he's got yeah the market down the road And because it just turns out to be a piece of rock So it didn't even really make sense to play that way in the first place The the least they could have done is gone. Well, it's a rare rock that we know you can't get access to Yeah, um Because that is the bonus piece of information, right? We find out later this this isn't at all what Durin said it is It for all we know it's just a random fucking rock that can be found in many places in which case What a gamble from Durin because If they knew he was lying That really looks bad for him that he would have Like guilted all these people on this on a subject It's pretty sensitive and very serious to accuse like the elves of grave robbing dwarves. Yeah on what essentially is a diplomatic Meeting too. Yep And why did he do this because he's I don't know He felt pretty smug about it when Elrond points out. I was like, oh, you lie, didn't you? And he's like, yep Is he just wanted to screw with them and No, he was to hide the myth rule But that turned like in literally three minutes later it turns completely pointless So the entire scene was redundant I mean You say hide the myth rule as if it was so hard to say like why are you mining so deep? It's like well We've been we're looking for horror where we're we mine. We're looking for horror We're looking for gold and jewels and shit It wouldn't be not it's like he could have just said we like gold you twat. What do you think? Mining is it's what we do The culture shame us No, he's dead. He makes up this huge lie that could have cost him a shit ton more I thought it was really yeah, absolutely It's it's a really ball it is not a safe lie at all This is a ballsy lie To talk about the table this way and essentially insinuating that it was stolen from them when you have no idea what this table Is from really how the elves got it how long they've had it. You don't know That's a ballsy lie You're like one of those you're like one of those pastors who predicts the end of the world You know he's like, you know what? I appreciate the audacity of you to make a prediction that the world will end on a particular date You're staking a lot. You're staking a lot on this one. Uh, this one guess of yours in a way. I kind of respect that the 2012 kind of Sorry guy the people the people who said about 2012 right there was a shit ton of them and then they were like Well, maybe next time. Well, I guess how many of you remember y2k I was alive then Yeah This also implies the dwarves or durin is basically trying to claim all ownership of a type of rock That anyone could really find if they dig deep enough or anything like that And what if the elves just found it that digs like, you know, we like this stone too You're saying we can't get the stone if we can find it ourselves The dwarves suddenly own this type of rocket. No one else is allowed to touch it Yeah, unless durin was about to double down and be like it's only found in our minds Wow, I don't know. I didn't know that it's a special It's a terrible lie if you're gonna give lying lessons This is not how you lie You have a you have a lot to lose and you have a table to gain Potentially if everything works out perfectly you get a table so next scene This one's particularly frustrating too. Do you know, I do this a lot I've said but um this opens with basically a gill glad being like you've been lying to me Elrond then everyone's like no you've been lying to me king and I was like Hey everybody What am I dealing with now? What is this? Basically, um There's this line Elrond delivers here. Actually, I hope I can get the subtitle for it. It was fucking blew my mind Elrond is annoyed at the king because he claims That uh, he went to durin in like aid of friendship Meanwhile you king Like like like your goal was for sending me there was the it was it was much more tangible and it was easy referring to the or And I'm just like did this show forget what happened in episode one and two You wonder if they legitimately forgot the entire like behind the scenes job Of Elrond during that whole durin Elrond plot. It's it it legit seems like they just forgot Yeah, because the only thing that links in from gill glad and keller brimbo is one line that said You know durin's been a bit suspicious recently It's like he's avoiding me and that entire thing was their master plan to get Elrond to discover mithril. It was It means they had to know of knowing about mithril before he even said to give Well, yeah, but they didn't they did know about it before sending him Oh, yeah, they definitely knew about it in a general sense. We'll get to that because that's very soon from here But what i'm getting at is the elrond is like man, we need to you know build this thing faster Huh, how do we do it and then I was like, well have you tried dwarves and then keller brimbo was like, huh? He's like now we're recanting this story as though It's not true that he went to the dwarves himself with a proposition He's changed the story too I went to them with friendship in mind and you were there for the awe It's like no neither of those things are true You were there to get workers you liar He's so full of crap Elrond each eye could I just like I legit was curious if they've forgotten So yeah, he said I went to think that this was a secret master plan right from the start that they Knew exactly every single move elrond was gonna make and so manipulated him really So yeah, I think that's what they're going for so from the start They only sent him there to reconnect so they could send him back and get him to discover mithril, but they didn't even They didn't get the dwarves it was elrond. Yeah. Yeah, what if elrond just didn't suggest the dwarves He was like, well, we could you know get some other elves from up there and help me out We could get this done And it's also I mean, it's not just the mithril they need because they do genuinely need the workers to build the forge at Eregion which you then see being built, but it's sort of it seems like it's unintentionally Making elrond. I think it's having elrond tells more lies than it realizes. It's having him tell because So you've got this one But then, you know, of course he gets to see durin and he tells durin that he's there because 20 years is too long To be away even for an elf And then he comes back here and then the meeting after this one he'll say I lied I didn't come for friendship. I came for ambition But the ambition was other peoples But he but durin already knows that they had a plan and that they needed to build The forge and that they needed workers to do that because that's the deal he presented to him over dinner So elrond is sort of I came for I came for friendship But also for workers But I didn't actually mean it when I said that I came either for friendship or for workers I came for the other thing depending on what the requirements of this specific scene happen to be And it makes no sense I think maybe elrond is just shockingly easy to manipulate But he manipulates other people he manipulates durin at multiple times every time durin pushes back on anything That's the irony. I'm your friend. That's the thing is like, oh the manipulator is easily manipulated. Ah It's not at all what they were going for but I mean if you're a bad writer You are you're given results that you're not intending to Oh, no, it's safe to say all the irony in the show is unintended. Definitely. Yeah Yeah, I I was immediately Incredibly frustrated. I went to kaza doom with a proposal of friendship while you were there for the awe Like you don't remember what happened elrond. You're making this shut up. You were you were there for It was never about friendship. It was never there He was so awful He turned up you with building a tower He was trying to bank on his friendship to get the proposal in place and then you realized Oh, I guess I have been away for a few decades and you've taken that personally Like I don't think good thing. Deezer was there to really smooth things along shockingly well Yeah Else's wouldn't happen at all so, um This felt like such a non sequitur to me when he explains his issue with the king and how he feels he's a lied The king just goes. Hmm Okay, have you heard of the high elves? Recite a story for me now When he says are you familiar with the song of the roots of he's a field gear or something like that? It could be anything. I just started laughing because it sounds like such a like You tell someone your big issue with them that you sit down this bit of size that just have you heard of blah blah blah You just like what no, we're not we're not doing whatever that is. Okay. We're talking about something very specific right now uh But hey, I mean why not right? Let's tell a story Oh This is so fucking weird I thought that maybe this would be directly from Tolkien's writing so that I'd have to take the hard stance of being like this seems pretty retarded not gonna lie No, it's completely invented and it is still that retarded so it's It's oh god The short version is there was like an elven knight and a balrog And they were right next to a tree and they the elven knight put all of his good into the tree The balrog put all his evil into the tree Do you know why wait the the tree had a hidden sumerill deep inside it Uh, there's just another sumerill suddenly and the sumerill are really significant as they're the you know origin of the sumerillian Um and stuff That's why the book is named after him and they cause so many issues and everything and now they're just saying Oh, yeah, there's another one. Sure. Okay. Yep um Because why does the balrog not just hit the elf? All right. Yeah, you don't understand metaphor It's a it's a general concept of some sort of a struggle between two opposing forces. It's not like A literal. I fucking hope so right? I hope so It's literal. It is literal though. It's definitely what is happening is it's super metaphorical Are you sure you know you know how elves are with their stories? They don't get boggled in the nitty-gritty of tactics and strategy It's you know how I know you're wrong because if we describe the events of this show you'd be like that must be metaphor You're being sarcastic for the context of the show is that this is the literal explanation of mithril and mithril can only exist If this story is real if it's metaphorical and so is the mithril and the mithril's also it's metaphor magic Of course So there's good evil tree evil real lightning the silmaril and then a lightning strike hits the tree and that makes mithril a thing Here's how I'm even gonna begin to understand And holy crap they they managed to ruin mithril mithril now has evil components in it because the king's explanation Of the ore is that it is pure and light as good and strong and unyielding as evil That's awful Because good is not strong or unyielding The king to think evil is strong unyielding he's like oh, okay, he's a villain It is so remarkable How much this fucks up in past present and future at the same time In the space of about 30 seconds because if it's supposed to tie into The lord of the rings films that means that frodo who has the mithril vest is literally wearing the light of the silmarils In which case no one can actually touch him or get anywhere near him because the light of the silmarils Basically burns orcs to death So no one can touch him It's like orcs can walk out in moonlight right because it's not like it's sunlight, but it's bouncing off something They did it in the really thick oily wine and now it doesn't shine as much The show it does it screws up every because the show There is so much like magic light in mithril that it can save the elves who are now suddenly all about to die because the tree has The light is that thing about the and then plot I'd have no idea about oh our souls will wither to nothing because the light of the valar We need these rocks Or that came from this tree that got struck by lightning in this fight against good and evil And that there's a silmaril somewhere involved and i'm just like what the fuck is happening Are you No one still knows what the silmarils are so like that makes no sense, you know just from within the the shows universe Well, uh, the celebrim board does he mentioned him Oh, no, what i'm saying is that the the show doesn't the show has not set up for the audience what silmarils are So like people then know they exist, but the show hasn't explained what they are why they matter what their importance is Um, they're sort of retroactively being thrown in here is well They have the light of the valar in them and well the light of the valar is leaving the elves And so we need to get the mithril because that has the light of the silmarils in it to save ourselves Um, which is say what the light of the valar is No does actually like explain what that is or is it just supposed to be like oh That's a thing that they need they need the light of the valar Yeah, it's one of those lore things that it's it's claiming It's throwing it in as a name in order again to trick people into thinking that it respects the law more than it does Like the elves have the light of the valar in them at this point in history But the light of the valar very slowly and gradually leaves them and that's what you see The elves in the peter jackson films have sort of come to the end of their time in middle earth because The light of the the light of the elves has faded and they all have to leave and go back to valar nor because they've been Allowed back in to to live essentially unless they choose to sacrifice their immortality as arwin I think does So that that's sort of it's the background kind of to that But it's a perverted form of the background to that because that's that's complete horseshit like none of this Works it doesn't make any sense because like okay, let's say let's take the show's explanation of it Mithril has the light of the valar in them because it has the light of the silmaril in it Not that the show is established that the silmarils have the light of the valar in them really Why not? How much mithril does it take then? I mean does can elvren just give his little piece of mithril to people Oh, he's gone. All right. Well enough of that It did say saturate in the light But the thing I was wondering do you think this is like a rights issue due to the fact that They actually can't say anything about the the silmarils or what happened or any legitimate thing Because there's something similar really in which they don't own so they had to make up just a bs fake a reason To put them in so that they could then describe them in their sort of fake new mythology because then they're not breaking the rights They were definitely proud of this. I thought this was really cool And hang on what were you saying before you disconnected? Sorry, yeah Um, so if you need more mithril than just the piece that elvren has could you not just say to the door Say look, we're dying. Can we just come and you know, just do a pill and grimage to your cave Go through it for a bit and then we're fine again Um by tying the light of the elves to the mithril in this way It invites all of these really basic mechanical questions that the show won't be interested in answering The way I think it's going is that they'll say well The elves need to forge the rings of power because the rings have mithril in them And they will use the rings as the way to stop the elves from dying and that I think is where they will go with it Which is oh my goodness. That's my read of it so far Ah, because it's it seems very arbitrary that suddenly What episode five or something all the elves are dying because a tree has fungus growing on it. I was like, where did that come from? What? Hey, it was set up in episode one with a gulief. Come on. Oh, it made no sense Yeah, but it was the connection. Why does like scum on a tree mean the elves are now dying? That's just reasons. God the evil is growing because the light is fading Yeah, because it's not it's well It's not even as if the light is fading like it was a A product that was being used up because they thought it was war that was causing it So it was almost like an evil influence can destroy their light rather than them Using it up as they kind of live but to the mithril He did say we need you to with mine as much as possible because we have to saturate every single elf Yes, so that implies you could need a lot like you're gonna have to mine all of it Never mind that the interesting question is to how you saturate people in stone But you know, just the light from the stone is Yes, just sit but that's the point then why not just go on a pilgrimage and walk through the caves Just open up a cave that's a mithril walk through it. Yeah, you're fine. Yeah, why not? And then you take front of the dwarves. It's all fine. And then the other thing is okay Well, they know that their light is fading and that means they will die However, it's established in this show that they can just choose to go back to valinor anytime they want And valinor still has its own light there. So why don't they just say well, fuck it then? We're leaving and we're going back to valinor the king can determine that the king sent you back in the last episode So None of this makes any sense and the show hasn't thought it through But that reason there is also why durin's Decision to help makes no sense at all because when it's given the proposition And it's that the elves who are annoying little know-it-all, you know You're idiots, right? It's like this will force them to leave middle earth and it's all there for the humans and dwarves You can't have it all that would be like I thought durin'd be like that's a great thing. All right, sweet off you go See you later. Huge. Not only that it proved all of his theories right that they were only in it for the all Exactly. So the reason to helping out Not even there in actual fact He could be insulted enough to not help and on top of that say they couldn't even go back to valinor All right, it's not like they're suddenly gonna be wiped out It just means they lose their immortality and from durin's perspective I thought he would be like oh, so that just makes them on an even playing field to everyone else And makes them actually fair. I think he'd be okay with that as well They can still have babies and their race continue and everything just means that they're not immortal anymore And everyone's yeah, it's massively useful to the dwarves the dwarves can demand anything in return for Yeah Well, see durin was ruined for that, but I'm hoping his dad will you know put more of a fight on this one. Yeah Incharacter fight Gilgillad does say to alrond that if we leave every other race will fall to evil essentially Which is supposed to be durin's motivation Although i'm not sure he's ever told about that, but I would think that durin and everyone they're not gonna believe that What we know elves to just survive Oh, who who do you think you are kind of thing the arrogance One of the things there's like i'm pretty sure you're trying to steal this thing for me and they're like no I'm just here as a friend. By the way, can I have that thing? You know like no and you go Oh, well, if you don't give it to me the world will die. You know like oh really? Oh my goodness. I better give it to you Then I don't want the world to die Oh, what a coincidence. Why didn't you tell me this from the beginning? So there's there's too much of it to sort of really go into but I mean anyone who is is interested go Into the Silmarillion and I think it's basically about chapter six onwards Um is the alternative to this so essentially from chapter six onward of the Silmarillion contains all of the content All of the material all of these epic epic stories And the sacrifices and the betrayals and and the rich myth and world building That this show has just replaced with there was a tree and there was some lightning ergo mithril ergo cool Just go and read that bit or listen to it on audible is a really good version And just see like sort of the extent of the desecration that this Redone version actually amounts to because you're you're basically getting rid of the equivalent of Romeo and Juliet with vampires werewolves satan balrogs demons Um collapsing cities massive betrayals three no two further kinslayings of elves against elves The murder of elvish kings by dwarves the massacre of dwarves by elves all of this has been reduced to lightning tree mithril Which is why sort of people who kind of like talking get quite pissed off about this kind of thing Do people who like oxygen get pissed off by this sort of thing? Oh Not not counting all the reasons other reasons to be pissed off by this kind of thing Back to the books back to the books back to the books that was apparently their Slogan without the entire thing um It was really annoying as he basically just says mithril, but without saying it and then elrond's like hmm. Hmm. So durin was right Which is like probably shouldn't have said that mate. Like Is he already in play around us is really dumb? But it's okay. All right. We're gonna give him a chance like he was too rash He can still rescue it. You can be like, oh durin was just right that you guys clearly have an ulterior motive. That's all Yeah, just durin have this thing. I'll never tell you where it is Like what what what what? No, don't say that so He was okay for a moment there and then gil glas says You know like so you admit it. There is an all That elrond's response here could just be like, huh? No, i'm saying the durin was right that you guys are after something Instead, he says I only admit that I have a secret, but I'll keep it It's not a good idea. You could have just this is wong in uh In multi-use matters. Yeah, pretty much. You've already you've you've said too much already. You you fucked it up I just like I hate it and it's like, yeah Well, it gets the door open doesn't it and now the secret's gonna come tumbling out soon enough Yep And then uh, and then something funny happens that happens in these shows everyone's so well where the king's all upset You just wanders off Then elrond's following him and it's because he wants to tell him about this goo tree And it's like why don't you Why don't you like act like real people where elrond will be like hello? What's happening? Where we going? He's just walking real slowly to this tree. Take that I hate that in conversations when one of the characters leaves and you don't know if I'm supposed to follow you or is our conversation over are you? I you mad at me. I guess Are we are we not friends now? What if gil glad turned around and elrond wasn't there? Elrond's sitting at the table just waiting. He went to pee I think Is like, yeah, I guess I'll just sit here and fucking mope No, I don't even get this tree bit though because this is where they send like they stand under it when Galadriel originally gets sent off But they say they sent her off because the tree was getting destroyed in the first place Yeah, so every single person that stood on that tree apparently didn't notice that just black goo and mold was growing All over the thing to begin with nobody had a good look. It was only gil glad Or maybe some people noticed they were like, oh, that's just the tree. That's normal Some trees look like that. It's the goo tree. It's fine. It's the goo tree. Yeah, this is right But like if this is mine, of course, no, this is evil goo. No, no, definitely not exactly a minus is not that Oh, no, not at all, of course And so the thing that I felt that was pretty funny here is like the just direct confirmation This is already something we figured but gil glad basically just says that uh, you know, we saw this evil goo Before galadriel had left and we thought if she fucked off That would make the goo fuck off, but it but it only got faster. I just be sitting like What was the logic there, mate? Like what? You you thought getting rid of galadriel would get rid of the goo because as he said in episode one If the if the evil isn't being like hunted and attacked then it won't Accidentally be encouraged or something Which is just retarded logic. It's like if we do nothing about evil's growth that'll stop it from growing further. It's like you What? No, I I will defend them on this one right because if galadriel return you've all you've all met galadriel, right? So if she returns and you suddenly your tree descends into evil and you're like well that bitch has just turned up It's definitely her fault. We better send her off. It's like I'm fully behind that idea They thought she was so evil that she could corrupt the entire elven race and she needed to be set away He may still be right because she didn't leave. She's still around. She's just a little bit further away Yeah, we need to send her up even further We need to kill galadriel. The audience is a audience surrogate tree like this is the wilting of the audience every time she's on screen I too want to leave But this is one of those things though when he concludes that you're just with him. You're like you just hate galadriel, don't you? It's fair. You can just say it like But then he's like yeah It's okay. We all fucking hate her Separate to the lodge like the the meme logic right which is all which is fun But gilgill adds actual belief is that it is war that's causing the spread of evil So I was gonna get galadriel to go away So the elves will be strong enough to wage war to stop the evil and it's like but hang on Your intention is to wage war anyway And it isn't that the thing that he was thinking was making evil grow but then he admits that no no no We need the elves to fight back. It's like, what are you doing mate? What are you thinking? Listen, he's having trouble. He's getting old maybe Such a weird choice to the goo tree Yeah, it's like this it's like tendrils infecting it It's not because when we talk about the light of the valar and a lot of this stuff doesn't seem to have like a physical like appearance to it It's kind of spoken almost as if it's symbolic But this is a very real infection like you could reach on it and pull these things off the tree Yeah, and it's coming from somewhere very physical Yeah, I I guess it it's it's hard to know the state of Kind of everything the state of everything in terms of the politics and where things are in time and place and distance But stuff like this when it leans so heavily into it and you just can't really follow What means what? And wouldn't the elves feel like this because they said this is an external representation of what's happening to us Surely they should feel different Can like the the damage that that tree's had to it they should feel weaker or something by this point It's the thing because I think the light of the valar isn't supposed to be just this this thing that shines on you externally or from an external source Because I think the sun has the light of the valar in it as well when the sun is created from sort of the remains of One of the trees But it's actually the the elves are imbued with the light of the valar because of creation And so it's a natural thing the further they are from valar nor they lose the light from inside themselves It's not a thing that they're bathed in from outside and you can't replicate that by bathing them in it from the outside Though they find it very beautiful And I think this is sort of a side effect of what happens when the show Is forced or either either is forced or chooses to do away with a lot of this sort of law world building stuff Is that The more of that they do away with the more they have to create for themselves and the more they have to rely on their Own imaginations and their own imaginations don't function particularly well They're not especially broad or deep and so the reason a lot of this doesn't make sense even without reference to the law It just doesn't make sense in universe is because we are relying on the writers to give us this stuff And they haven't thought about any of it. So it's hard. Yeah, I don't even know if it makes sense I don't have information to work with I'm just sort of like Just like accepting the things that I'm told without being able to it's like, well, I guess that's okay That's the way it works then or okay. This is happening now. I guess With gilgallad and he sees this I'll be like, oh man You're gonna need to get like a gardener in here to tell you what the fuck's going on Your trees clearly got wrought and he goes no, this is the light of the elder fade. I was like, is it? You sure you sure you're so worth getting this tested as this ever happened It's woodworm That's what it turns out to be in a gilgallad would be like, oh shit, uh, okay Sorry, so we're gonna cut the tree down. He's like Separate to all that as well It is direct proof that like some type of really bad evil is still present in middle earth very likely sauron You know, it's direct proof glad you was right all along And their intent to try and fix it is to not I don't know that evil Think about if you're in gilgallad's position and glad drill is going on about sauron And your tree has got all this stuff on it Like could you draw a connection between her suggesting sauron is still out there and This happening to the tree Because these seem completely independent from one another You know, I would agree you're right if outside of the context of like lord of the rings and the concept of evil and stuff and that and that this is like Like evil has a corrupting influence and it's caused by some really bad entity and everything And so the fact that this tree is falling to corruption In the context of the world seems to be an indication that Something morgoth related bad is happening in the world and you might want to do something to fix it Yeah, I mean when the trees in valinor Decade and were killed according to this shows telling That was because of the actual existence of and presence of morgoth That they didn't die just because somebody suggested morgoth might be there They died because he was there and so the elves with that experience Would look at these two options and say well, which is the most probable Is it that galadriel is simply mentioning the prospect of sauron that's causing the trees to get depressed? Or is it that maybe sauron is actually there somewhere given their past experience? There's only really one conclusion that's reasonable to draw well I don't know. I think it's all very poorly explained. Yeah I'm just like, I don't know is the fucking other fucking tree spirits peeved. Like, I don't know Maybe maybe this is a Even real Right More your suggestion in on friday night time. So it's just a really excited orc is up the tree Yeah, you can interpret whatever he might be doing, uh, just yeah Um, so yeah, gill glad like right then Um, oh wait, so are we gonna say something? No, I'm just gonna say it's either like the walk up the tree or it's an ent that's having to sit there listening to girl galad's speeches And it's just getting very miserable Met galadriel Um, so yeah, he's like so did the dwarves find the ore then and elrond's like look Some oaths may hold little weight to some people, but to me my soul is bound to it I don't intend to let mine slip away Which has now become kind of an interesting thought because that means that elrond really does believe Gil guy is telling the truth and the the end of the world is nigh However, he doesn't want to break his word that he would tell anybody about mithril Do you mean like we almost flip around now to like elrond? You probably should tell me if you truly believe what he's saying, which does sound a little bit absurd Very least you could just go up to him and say hey man, the world's gonna end. Can I tell him like, you know That is the obvious plan b that never comes up this never does No, no character ever suggests this Because if the world's gonna end i'm sure that he would be like, you know what if the world is gonna end that yeah You know what i'm okay with you telling people it's chill and to clarify that does happen But not before something else, which we are almost at and this is the thing that everyone got mad at discussing online as well, so Yeah, why aren't they focusing on the fact of the world's ending? That was like my whole thing if uh if Because elrond seems to be completely believing it so at this point you should just be like Oh, shit. I'm gonna have to break my oath right because i'd be retarded not to at this point, but The only question he's being asked He's answering anyway by saying like if I said have you eaten a burger recently? Like well, I would answer you but answering that would break my oath that I wasn't going to tell anyone about what I did Like, okay, so you ate the burger then so Yeah, even if they have extra information about the myth If the answer was no, yeah, if the answer was no, then you'd just say no like what you It's exactly the fact that you never say you didn't like my thrill. Yeah, that doesn't make sense Elrond all but admits it because the line was like Jordan was right and then he like the king says then you admit the doors Did find it and he says I admit only this I promised during to never reveal his people's secrets You just revealed it then you freaking moron Yeah, you're right So he's already broken the oath there, but he's gonna break it again in a sec before he decides that he will break it so Great, um Anyway over to uh little scene in the I don't know. It's like a full tavern for the Or maybe it's in a ship. I can't tell whatever in numinal where He sealed all comes up to his his his friends that he got fired And the friend accuses him pretty quickly of like you're only here because I got promoted and you want to use me to try and get onto Yeah, like we haven't they haven't talked since the alley, right? I don't think so This is the thing. It's like oh, this could be a good moment Approved that that's not the case because his friends clearly upset at him still clearly very paranoid about his actions And he totally should be But like the show takes seconds to basically be like yes, that is true. It's like really You suck man And then yeah the thought comes to your mind of just like what is the seal door done to rectify his huge mistake In totality has he actually tried to appeal the decision to get those two fired for no reason at all? Because that would have been a really decent way to get him back in their good graces, right? I think it's this scene where he goes. Well, I didn't think they'd fire you and I'm still thinking Yeah, I don't know why they did fire in the first place. So it seems perfectly reasonable from his position That's true. Uh, but at the same time it's like as he did anything as a result of it I'm assuming not Um, but it is hilarious nobody understands why this happened and It just it did and you realize like well, it's because we need a conflict between these two Pretty much for this scene and a couple scenes extra It goes back into the characters don't talk how characters would talk. This is all left. So This just isn't how people would behave if a situation like this came up The situation shouldn't be happening Exactly. Yeah, this should have been resolved earlier. This should the thing should have happened What's the point of this arc though with this character on what purpose does it serve? What's the goal with it? Literally nothing comes from this scene at all potentially because Whoa, I mean you end up being able to join the the You know army as a stable hand is doesn't it? No, because he doesn't help him. No, no, yeah No, that's later on. Oh, you're right. This is essentially him saying i'm not gonna. Oh, yeah He basically gets allowed to be put onto the ship by being caught out as a reward for saving the guy Yeah The ship just exploded. We were almost we're almost there. We're almost to that thing It's incredibly fortunate That that was able to Happen when it did Yeah Just to nick a time on this scene I honestly think it's just because they've done nothing with him and they think well We need to have him as a character characters need to have people around them and they need to do stuff So that's just fuck it. They have some friends. He has friends now We're telling you this now in this moment. He has some friends and they don't like him at the moment, but it'll be fine later One might say that they valued conflict over consistency here They wanted to just have something go on to make people interested, but they couldn't figure out how to do it properly So they just did it Full-headedly Because yeah, um, there's actually something I like here Which is that if you ignore literally everything else when He's like you can punch me and then you can get me on the team, right? He does punch him twice And then he's like so I'm on the team and he's like no Why the hell would I promote someone who's like an idiot saboteur of a very important ship that got several of his crewmates in danger, too Like obviously not I was just like hey good. Excellent. Good job, man He shouldn't hire this guy. He's crazy um There's also the angle um, I think you uh highlighted it Rags with how like how bad does it look that that your first move as a lieutenant after you got ranked up was to bring in your Disgraced friend and promote him. That's right. That's what I mentioned Isn't that interesting you fight you get this promotion and the first thing you do is you bring your friend back Hmm nepotism as your first line of order. I don't know. Maybe uh, maybe maybe I was uh Not wise to promote someone on such Frivolous qualifications Also, I don't think a lieutenant has the authority to recruit or tonight even have the authority to determine who's under his command So the show seems like a decision that would be beyond him Like that seems like a decision that would be made by somebody above captain Well, I mean an army would have actual, you know recruitment officers and things and Chartered training and then after the training is completed Then you'd have perhaps a captain assign, you know the divisions under whose command and things and yeah, so Well, generally the way it works, right? Is it like those decisions are made because it's um Because there's captain is the highest rank of like commissioned officers, right? And then above that you've got like generals and kernels and whatnot And they'll make a lot of they'll make decisions maybe about personnel But like you just get your people and they're the people that you're in charge of and also it's only been what a day And he's just here make he's he has the capacity to make these decisions. No way So there's a reason they put this scene right before the next one because this gives us the motive for a field door to be somewhere We're about to find out what that's gonna be Mara's odd son sneaks onto a ship We're finally here everybody so this was a moment of just like I was like What could he be up to and uh, do you remember in parts of carabin where A whole ship is disabled at least temporarily by the rudder chain being disconnected Like they they just ground Lack of a better word a ship because they've done something very specific and it's difficult to repair straight away Like couldn't have been something clever like that like cutting up several things that are important That can be repaired and the whole ship doesn't have to be compromised Yeah, like he pulls the rigging off of a thing or he like something clever I suppose something you could do stealthily. Yeah, like they all wake up the next morning and they're like, oh, shit Where's the steering wheel? I don't have one either or he he He puts a he swims under the boat and jams the Appstand or something or puts a thing on the chain so they can't pull up the anchor something So I thought his intention was was to blow up the entire fleet because he doesn't want I think it might be I think it might be if it was something like that they could go well. They'll just go tomorrow then Which Yeah, we I'll summarize it quickly then so like he goes he grabs a lantern goes down into the lower deck and then Opens up the the casks which oil or wine whatever it is He intends to set that alight and then that'll explode the ships and he's hoping to I think He nails two As a result of this but he was hoping to get more I think that's what the case is but as he's doing it He hears a cough And he realizes that a seal door is hiding down here and then his seal door um I guess tries to prevent him from burning it and in so actually happens to cause it to happen essentially And uh because his cloak is on fire You know, I'll I'll wait for that actually and they and um, and then they both jump out Just in a nick of time a seal door saves him and then when it's uh elendil questions them the story is Parazon's son was out fishing the seal door was just he just happened by and he saved him from an exploding ship Because that was just happening. I'm afraid And then as we said earlier, they conclude a saboteur of some kind a brigand was was doing it Dofton not you too. Yeah, so Have at it everybody. There are so many things to criticize about this. I don't know where to begin All right, let's begin with him sneaking on the boat. It's insane that there's no one guarding it Like where where is anyone on patrol? The ships don't have shields because no one would be foolish enough to attack Why have a bodyguard when no one would ever try is no point So, yeah, good. Good shot. It would be funny. I could imagine the brighter that that a character was like Why would we have a guard where no one in duped or would ever want to attack those ships? That doesn't make sense Um, I don't know Maybe they would Maybe someone would what's kind of the point isn't it that from this they conclude that there are people in numinal who aren't happy with the war thing And it's like you already knew that Something that you know. In fact, it this is a pretty unconventional like uncommon occurrence I would say anything you default that there's going to be people who hate the idea of going to war And who knows what someone might do the fact that they're not even one person per boat like absurd whatever So I feel like I should pause it to you rags. You spoke of it so much so frustratedly the lantern situation all right, so What you know ships are made out of wood And wood is flammable and that's not good. We don't want that burning that ship. That would be bad so maybe It's not a good idea to leave unattended lit fire lanterns just hanging around On the same deck next to your barrel supply of exploding Flaming whatever this stuff is And it it's a wonder that your ships aren't just constantly exploding by negligence Imagine it like can you imagine being on the seas and like oh there's a wave comes by and it knocks the thing off or Or a spark falls on the ground and the whole thing just explodes Must happen all the time half of their the losses of this fleet are just explosions just those explosions That's why they believe the story straight away that they spontaneously exploded Right Just happens all the time Yeah, now the actor did say for this He doesn't think his character the actor does say he doesn't think his character would have Made them explode if he hadn't found the other guy and he thinks it was only their fire made him Yeah, this is from the actor himself. He says if it wasn't for finding the guy in that fight He wouldn't have thrown the lantern, but that provoked him into doing something So what was he there for well, no He said he thought he would have been like so nervous and just thought about it And sat there all night and not had the guts to do it before he left He actually opens up the keggo to spill the the exploding tea and tea juice. I'm sorry, but He is when he hears the cough He's literally about to throw the lantern and he stops because he hears the cough Even if we put that Exactly would the point of this scene be if that interpretation is correct. What's the point? Like what is the point of this scene? What are you trying to achieve? Uh, do you mean like a character standpoint because You get him to get on to the boat and then he was just going to Stand there all night and not do anything I think he intended to He's gonna sit down in the oil. He had just spilled all over This is the thing. He's making this shit up because that that wasn't in the show. There's no like No, he's he's he's so ready to do it. He's pretty fast too. He gets all this ready And it's just the coughing of his seal door that's like, oh fuck someone might be on this ship Which then highlights the next issue Motherfucker, you didn't check you didn't look around to make sure you're not killing anyone What the hell's wrong with you? Say hello Jesus Christ He is either a psychopathic murderer or one of the most incredibly stupid morons in existence. It's Either way, it's horrible. Yeah, um, and then of course you think Wait a minute You would have made all that ruckus coming down the the steps He turned on these lights, which his seal door would more than likely have been made aware of So his seal door doesn't want to be seen here. He's a stowaway So the last thing he needs to fucking do is cough, right? And the reason I'm saying all this Is fucking hell that was lucky The one guy who never wants to be seen or heard has no choice but to cough because of some situation He's in or whatever and that's what alerts this guy that saves the seal door's life and in turn saves his own life Well, I guess he would have been fine if not for all the and gets a silder Say yeah, which it allows a silder to do the thing that allows him to get to little earth and hang on Wait a second. He was about to throw the lantern on this tea and tea juice and this is not a slow burn, right? It's an instant explosion Very slow burn. What are you talking about? So this is the thing we have to believe that he didn't know that's how that works I was in the list of complaints that As a music I was gonna say like if his intention was to destroy all the fleet is so funny because he wouldn't have gotten past ship One you just killed himself Is right next to him as he's breaking open these barrels He would have heard the liquid pour out and at no point thought what on earth is happening here Like you didn't question it. You just said he valued his stowaway in us that much However, a cough just escaped through. This is what I mean. It's so poorly done And it's a surprise when he gets revealed like oh, you're breaking open the west kinds. It's like, yeah, you've just heard him do it What did you think was happening? Can we as I don't know if anyone else highlight this just man Imagine he had attacked a different ship first or the esildur stowed away on a different ship So many things have to come together to just have this Because we have the odds we have the odds there. There was a one in five chance of him Going on this ship one in five and then and then you have to factor it Yeah, that he copped it just the worst moment. I don't know We both have to get the one out of five That word that's true. That's well, I guess if you frank. Well, no wait, hold on. Sorry. You've confused me now It's a one in five chance of sildur getting on this ship and there's a one in five chance Of the other person choosing the same ship But the first person can choose any ship So it's over the first person exactly Yeah, the first person Like there's nothing that it is a one in five chance that the ship that he chose to board was the one that he was on Yes, which was already yeah, which is already assuming the one in five chance that a sildur chose that ship Why no because he could have chosen anyone. Why are you doubling it up? He could have chosen any Because it's because it's different people choosing the same ship Each person has five ships that she's from No, because the first role is an independent role. Second one is contingent. I don't know why you I don't know why you're saying this Like that sildur could have picked he could have picked any ship It doesn't the point is that it's a coincidence that he that uh, the other guy went on the ship that he was on That's the coincidence. No, you're saying that it's twice over Yeah, because he had to be on the ship before you see it before the other guy Yeah, we know that ship on which to go to yes The coincidence is that he The coincidence was that he chose the ship that a sildur was on It has nothing to do with the choice that a sildur made of which ship he got on There were five ships. There was a one in five chance that he I'm I'm I don't know why we're doing I'm like I baffled It's a 2d5 role you're gonna make here Is that I don't know it isn't because like whichever ship he chooses doesn't affect any role whatsoever Because the role only even begins to occur when he actually exists on a ship So No No because it guys i'm scared. What's happening situation didn't even occur until he existed on a ship The first one like the only role is the one that's contingent on the first one Yeah, so it could be anything but the but a role being contingent on a first role means two roles have been played No, because it's like it's it's a bit disingenuous to even call it a first role like it's only once he existed in a place Yeah, so Using the same thing The significance of that scene is the fact that sildur is there in the first place Which means it relies on a contrivance a role of the dice for him to get there Otherwise the second role is pointless So we all we so to lay it out No, sorry, no, I want to actually settle it All right, so let's back up So I think what I said first is there was a one in five chance That are the guy with the the lantern bumps into a sildur That's true. There was a one in five chance because it was five ships. That's it That's the coincidence that he chose the ship that a sildur was on There's no coincidence or anything in terms of odds with a sildur choosing any ship The point is that he chose the one ship out of the five That uh that a sildur was on that's it. Why are we saying that there's all Yeah, I I agree with that part. I don't I I Isn't this also it's reliant on the one of the five that a sildur chose to hide on being this one As well because they needed to both choose And no, they needed to both choose the same ship. Yeah, they needed to choose the same ship No, only one person needed to choose the ship that a sildur was on because only that ship is relevant But it's still Because he chose to be on it But yeah, but he didn't matter which ship he chose Well May I just for a second? I'm gonna I'm gonna collapse this whole thing through some wombo logic If his sildur had chosen the secondary ship that blew up, he would have died as well as this guy dying, right? Yes, because two ships. Yeah, because those two ships would have been burned down the same way because he's a fucking idiot And would have thrown the lantern anyway, which blown himself up and the second ship Unless a sildur picked one of the ships that survived. No, of course. That's what I'm saying It's like so there is an element of what he chose Creates the ultimate result, right of what he sealed or chose on what this guy chose Oh, I get what you mean like in terms of if uh, if he had chosen a different ship, he would have just blown himself up He will he either would have he either would have blown up about that meeting or what's more likely That he would have chosen a ship where nothing would have happened for a sildur And instead he would have had this guy blowing himself up and a sildur would still be a stowaway Sure, but that's sildur. What a massive one in five chance of him Happening to be on the ship that I thought that's what we were talking about. Yeah, that's one of the odds That he bumped into a sildur. It's one in five. That is the odds It is one in five There were five ships and that was the one that he was on but just just as clarification I assume if this satisfies everybody if we broaden it out to the entire scene The odds of us reaching the ending of this scene includes a shit ton of variables. Is that what the Yeah Okay It's really good writing I'm curious to you one and it's not even location. It's timing. When you have two actions Yeah, the timing was that a one out of fives that lead to a conclusion. Is that one out of five times one out of five Is how you figure that out? Yes. Yeah, okay. It's one in 25, isn't it? Yeah I have just I can't remember if I was ever taught this or if I'm Remembering I I think it's one in 25 Yeah, probabilities multiply because if it was if there was four ships and they both had to randomly choose the same one It'd be one in 16, right? Hmm. I legitimately am not like a math person. So Um, but yeah, because you could argue, you know, the guards not being there is another element of just like What are the odds of that? It's like, I guess it's not impossible But we can't really construct odds for that in the same way we can for choosing a ship So I understand why we want to isolate these uh Didn't think I think it's actually more Unlikely that he just happened to cough at the exact right moment. Absolutely. Yeah, this I agree I would say I'd say it's less likely because I guess what's what's strange about it Is that you would think that a silder is now in a position where he is actively listening for people coming So he would do his best to not I said all of this at the time Oh You were really good, thank you for doing that thing you did a good job Uh It's so good. It just needed to be said twice. It really did So Little tussle they have is hilarious because the first thought I think you even said it out loud rack So I already knew what was gonna happen because I'd seen when we were rewatching this Uh, you were like so that lanterns going in the fucking oil then Like close because you'd actually I'd forgive anybody for thinking that is what actually happens But it drops it smashes and it sets his little his little cloak on fire It doesn't get into the oil Which um unfortunate now if you were him Would you do that? I just showed it on the screen. You toss your cloak directly into it You had two directions you could throw it in toward the fire Don't go away from the fire You chose very wisely And the best part is like you've already thrown it over you can you it didn't land in the fire Grab it. Just do it back if he pulled on the back of it the non-fire part right now. Look at it. Yep We'd be okay, but they just leave it. Let's guess what You're too weird at the very moment. Uh grab that which is right there two steps away or run And hopefully make it far enough away from the ship that you don't explode The thing is by them running that implies that they know it will explode right Which is the guy knew he was committing suicide when he was about to throw it at them Can I just let this this for inconsistency? This is one of the worst ones It is so like you why are you so bad at writing this? It didn't have to be this way at all Not even close Which for trailers of like ships exploding is we can make them explode. Oh, well then again I've said if you watch this show with trailers in mind, you can see it all makes sense So another thing I have to talk about actually Oh, let's remember farra's on sun's motivation here. It's to stop the war from happening Is he too stupid to know what this could actually do? There's several possible results One of them is you're unsuccessful to the degree that you only destroy maybe one or two or even three ships And that just cripples new manor's attempts at actually supplying aid to another place That's that's really bad. You just put them in a worse position is what I'm saying But um another outcome Could be that you actually kill a bunch of people You're exploding five ships in a dock. In fact, I would say you've guaranteed killed someone You'll be unlikely if there's zero people surrounding all of these ships. You don't even check if we saw Yeah, I mean crane horses because we've already seen crane horses being put on Yes This one No, I think this one was mysteriously vacant of horse. I was about to say there's no way they would show us horses in here What is there? Because you can flat pack horses though. You can just put all of them on one ship Oh, yeah, that is the stable pacman like that is the stable, but there's only saddles. There's no horses You know for a fact they wouldn't have had the balls to blow up all those horses Well, you know what that's good because if there's a jerk blow up all those horses because like what what's your problem? My dude Top of war, but what was his plan if they were horses in here? Was he just gonna be like, well I'm sorry. It was just gonna stand him in the eyes and say sorry horses. You gotta go see you Oh, that'd be fucked up It'd be terrible You could have the ship that he's walking slowly through the ship and he sees all the horses looking at him in the Lamp light and it reflects off. Yeah And then play sad piano music and then he just smiles villainously Refuse to accept the shows, you know Demonstrate like the belief that there was no other person on this ship when the guy didn't even check It's probably some other guy below decker and the captain's quarters or something like that. Probably He's dead now Even if there was nobody on there, he didn't know that so exactly exactly he didn't He didn't know it's it's so so this guy's like one of the worst people of the show I feel like this is worth talking about because we've had a lot of media recently where like people don't understand the nature of like moral culpability with characters Like it may well be that it ends up that the actions that they took didn't actually get anybody killed or injured But if they could have and they all like they just didn't even know that they were putting anybody in danger and didn't care Says something about them Is really like oh nobody got killed. It's like yeah, somebody could have been that's what matters exactly Absolutely when you're studying this in sort of philosophy, it's called moral luck The example is usually given if you're driving while you're drunk and you get home Are you doing anything better or worse? And if you're driving while drunk and you hit someone and the question is is there a what to what extent does morality of The morality of an action depend upon the actual consequence of that action So luck how much does luck determine moral that the morality of an action is this the question sort of at stake? And it's a really interesting one sort of delve into because in some examples you can quite clearly say well at least You would conventionally say well, okay, you did a bad thing, but nothing bad came of it so actually Our instinctive reaction is to say that that was not as morally bad as if something bad had come of it But the second order and Yeah, more interesting racially. Yeah, you could you have the knowledge to say well I guess you didn't do anything Bad in that sense, but you're still completely morally responsible for that Irresponsible choice you made inclusion this this guy's a piece of shit in many ways Absolutely, I have to watch you going forward And this isn't a character who's some stupid idiot Uh, like stable boy or peasant, you know, like you you're the son of this this political vizier This this very supposedly educated and smart character and you are Apparently wealthy in your nobility. I I expect a little bit better from you, especially given what your father's trying to teach you This wasn't very wise this maneuver here That would have been a story though If the son uses the lessons his father gave him to further a goal that his father was against That would be a story you see that'd be up Well, I guess what's um The reality is that the purpose of this scene and blowing up these two ships will later find out was just to get a solder on the Expedition that was the purpose. Yeah from the writing standpoint. That's all Just to finish off what I was talking about with the other possible consequences Even think about if he blew up one ship that might just galvanize the war effort Might be the people like there are people who're trying to stop us from going. Yeah Saboteurs They're standing in front of they're standing in the way of our you know, what our politics has decided What are what our queen is what we're banding together to do they're trying to kill us to prevent us from helping these other people How fucked up is that we really need to go? It's not a sure thing but doing this is gonna advance the cause that you have And we we're probably I'm curious if we'll get another scene with him discussing or thinking about any of this Because this scene as you just pointed out its only purpose is to get a seal door onto these ships and it's like I think we don't forget about it. We're done. We're done with it. Yeah, this is finished I think I think this is all done. It served the purpose that it was meant to serve And as far as I I think that at least this element of it the ship explosion I doubt it will come up again I doubt Faris on will ever ever learn of it or he'll or the or the sun will tell anybody It served its purpose. It's done. It's Between I imagine if he'd gone to a sealed of sister though, that would be a very Advantages play wouldn't it? I actually I knew I know and he met you two days ago But I just blew up a load of ships for you darling. So maybe You might just think you're insane, but you can try that would be if they did that They'd have to build up some sort of obsession he has with her for him to Do that which were you're right because that tells us a lot about him He needs to have existed because he has done that at her bidding and he's not innately an anti-war person She's persuaded him to go and speak to his father to try and stop the war and his father said now So he's gone to blow up the ships to stop the war But the impetus to the action came from his interaction with her to begin with So he already needs to be obsessed in order to justify the action. He's just taken I think we got to work way harder to get to move him from Into exploding ships in the harbor. Yeah. No, well, so that's actually the fundamental issue here I think is the I don't think the show at all is justified him doing this There's so many reasons to say that he shouldn't and then there's all the craziness of the actual scene And then Farazon and Elendil equally don't put the pieces together Fuck that. They both would they both figure out exactly what happened here And you think big investigation. How many other conspirators are there? Are they in our ranks? Are they ready to sabotage us at any point in our journey or when we make landfall in middle earth? This is a big deal. Two of our ships just got exploded out of our five There are way too many variables at play like for him to for him to commit to this course of action Considering how much of it is outside of his control in terms of controlling The direction everything goes in like I feel like there's got to be better ideas than blowing up the ships Like it's got to be a better way Well, I guess that takes us to I guess like is the point of this character, right? He's sort of meant to be like in the political sphere, right? So he's probably gonna Have a life in politics. You'd think that he would try to I don't know like I guess I guess like maybe You know what? I'm not I don't really care about this character. I'm not that interested How they could have written him But also, I mean just to emphasize again how insane it is that the two people swimming away from the burning boats are not prime suspects Is that they just I can't believe it's like Their excuse is bulldozer has a motive as silder is the one who was being told he can't go that he has to stay here He was disgraced from the the the navy when they kicked around The idea that he's To right they both he does yeah Well, and they were both there and they both had the means of that they were in that area at the time that happened Yeah, it's uh Motive means opportunity. You got them all three. I mean, it's just like What do you think is likely that they were just out for a late night swim in the harbor? Yes, they were the ones who were responsible for this Yeah On friday night time something goes as is responsible someone questions like what you really just out here, you know fishing and then they're like We were having sex You were rocking the boat so to speak And so what what's so what happens after that is they swim they swim up to the uh To the to the harbor and his dad's just like looks at him like oh, yeah He saved my life It's like some mutual agreement. I guess they've come to that they're gonna like apparently there must be between themselves Must have been telepathy I guess I guess I have a problem with it. Still they're not telling What like that? I guess What is it about him right? Yeah, he sees that this is a position that can advantage him So he's gonna seize it. He's gonna seize that opportunity Like if he'd just gone I just this guy exploded boats and I've just stopped and caught a criminal for you Surely that's I guess Maybe the guy would say like oh well, I mean, yeah, but he was trying to stall away on the ship You know so by both of them keeping it to themselves. I I don't know. Maybe that's the logic That's the thing You know what issue has to say it just was that no I wasn't I saw you sneak aboard and you were trying to do Something bad and I stopped you I was you know, just looking at the boats reminiscing wishing that I could go with there The navy saw this guy being suspicious and stopping everyone else. Yeah Well, I mean it's at the end of the day what we can say is that he didn't take the L here He wanted to he saw a way that this could benefit him and advance his goals And he took it which is his biggest problem throughout the whole series That's like his main flaw. He doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself and what he wants out of life Well, well, I mean and rags his point is very true here as well because there's a Terroristic psychopath. He tried to just sabotage that the fleet right and this user doesn't turn him in Because it can serve his own purposes like wow that makes him look so bad. Yeah, there's a couple of things. I mean, so I don't From the perspective of the characters involved. So let's say Isildur did choose to try and dump him in and he said well, okay, but you were stowing away I I guess but then again, whether Isildur would have known this but nevertheless, I'll run with it Um, the problem there is of course that you know Isildur His reputation versus the reputation of the son of one of the leading politicians in the country is much less likely to be believed I think that's a very very hasty Pace wish to make that calculation, but That's at least a counter-argument against him trying to dob in Farazan's son That could be a threat that the son tells Isildur Yeah, but that's um that would have yeah, and that would have required maybe one extra scene But the problem the problem with them not the well, sorry words the problem with them doing it the way they did it Is that you've established kind of a a bond of loyalty And or at least a bond of debt between them which can't ever be fulfilled because you're about to separate these guys off And so there won't ever be a payoff from this exchange because Isildur is about to fuck off to Middle Earth And Farazan's son whose name I still don't remember is going to be staying in Numenos There's no opportunity for any actual consequence of this Like on the spot alliance to emerge and it's just a very peculiar decision It's kind of what I guess we already concluded that it served its purpose. It's going to get him Uh, a foot in the door to get back into the guard and like go on the voyage. That's it That was the only purpose I guess other than maybe like some thinly veiled purpose in the follow-up scene where they have like a debate about Whether or not they're going to go But I mean they do end up going Uh, so it's kind of Kind of feels like a retread of things that we talked that we talked about in the previous episode anyway debating whether or not they should go to Middle Earth Oh, this is another question that they did ask the actors Why did Isildur not do it and the guy that went to blow up the ship literally just said I guess he's not a snitch So I don't think they even have a reason for themselves That's all that they've got he's not a snitch I guess he's not a snitch. So it's like he made it on the spot. I guess that's true. I guess He's not even like like Isildur has a character. He would not snitch on someone else. He would not is like I guess He's not a snitch. I learned that today I mean, I don't know what he seems to me like the kind of guy who would screw over basically anybody if he thinks It would advantage him I mean look at what happened to his friends because of him trying to Like he's not above duplicity No, eventually they'll have to set him up to be an especially duplicitous character At least somebody uniquely vulnerable to the corruptions of the one ring when we eventually get to that point So like that would be a way of starting starting him down that journey But they don't take that just also the level of understanding that actors apparently have of their role with these days Just We did a whole load of speculation on actual Viable answers for this and I was curious as a result of that ignoring the fucking input from the actors Rags were you suggesting it is out of character for him or that it was immoral that he did it? And that's just a part of his character now um It's kind of tough to say because we don't get much um, but It's certainly I feel it's an immoral thing. Um, I think I agree I I think that especially if if you're in the position of a silber who seems to want things to go Well for numinor Not giving up the saboteur when you don't know the extent of the plot Yeah, you know if there's corroborators is very very he goes free now. You're responsible. Exactly He goes free. We don't know what he's going to try and do again We don't know if there's any more people and if the concern was not being believed if his silber just told his father Hey, yo like that like I know it's my word against his but father listen I I saw him try to blow up the ship. I was barely able to stop him. You know, I'll come clean I was going away on the ship. I wanted to go despite, you know, all the protests I'll I'll admit to that How how well would have reflected on him if he owned up to the fact? It's like I was stowing away Yeah, I was doing that like if he if for the first time in his life He actually just took the L and just admitted it that is a mistake Well, I was said Why would you what it We needed that scene where he goes I'm telling everybody what you did and then you can you'd have to characterize far as on suns as a piece of shit But he'd be like i'm telling them if you do that I'll tell them what you did and then he goes what stowing away and then he goes no that you blew it up And then he could be like, you know pause for a thought and then he's like that would never and then it's like the Disgraced son who's desperate to become a part of this war trying to stop everyone else from going I can sell that in a heartbeat that sort of thing The reason they couldn't have that scene is because they wanted the boats to explode And so on a burning ship you could have had that but to get that impressive explosion They they would have been like well if it took that long to for it to set on fire Then you could have stopped it. So they literally couldn't have a Oh well Oh, yeah, they're saying it's really pointless by the way. That's the You get the whole like oh things are brigand which I guess I had far as I'm gonna figure this out in heartbeat Absolutely. No no chance. He knows exactly what just happened after the conversation you have with this son What the fuck is this son doing there like yeah, okay, you totally just it was just yeah, sure And then And they say that we could have lost all of our ships. It's like Oh Mad really your your ship. It's that typhoid thing. No not the typhoid the bomb is a tlj We have one of them blows up and it destroys the two decks to it. Mad. Remember that. Remember that Oh, it's already a classic I can see it now Yeah, you don't you don't expect like sailing ships to be what we would describe as like Volatility chain reactive Like you blow up one and then the others explode around them. I don't know man. That I mean Fireballs out then the fire has to somehow drop through a hole in the top deck of the next ship To where there is other kerosene or oil or wine Whatever it is already lying on the floor because I guess it's leaked from Another barrel or someone else has opened it already Like the number of events that have to come to being or to come into alignment in order for this to happen To have a chain reactive event. It's not unbelievable that a ship could explode Fire in that era was sort of a mainstay fear But the idea of the chain reaction requires a lot of assumptions to be made There there is actually historical precedent for chain reaction the spanish tried to invade um england at one point This was during the reign of elizabeth Yeah, and and they sent out like like ships on fire to the spanish fleet and set the whole thing on fire because of a chain One ship's got on fire. They were too close which caught another ship on fire and stuff Yes, but that's that's got the that's got the gunpowder consideration to play. Um, yes. Yes. Yes the exploding Yeah, you're right as opposed to exploiting wine Like with an exploit. Yeah, well Why even have the second ship explode if you're a writer Right the only reason to have the second ship explode is so it looks better for the trailer Yeah Well something that we later see as well as despite two ships being blown up It doesn't seem to substantially impinges nothing Uh, that their goals. So it's like, okay Yeah, you think that if your army you packed on those ships like sardines You just lost 40 of your ships and Assumably all of the cargo and provisions and storage space that came along with those ships I guess we're still gonna go along and do it No, I figured that when you say that we have five ships and 500 men that you're not just screwing around and taking superfluous ships I figured that you need those ships one of the ships is 200 The other ship is 200 and the third ship has the rest of the 100 and the other two ships There those are backup ships the backup ships that we're gonna In case you have them explode you know how ships are you know how these new minority ships are they do just explode So you gotta you gotta bring spares I would not want to be on a new marine ship No, this is scary guys. Oh by the way Like we're only two-thirds of the way into this episode We are and we have four and a half hours into the stream. Excellent. And this isn't the worst episode. No, this is the one I had less to say No, you know, I'm not sure I'll make it through the next one because I only have it like so much time left guys I'll stick as long as I can Yeah, of course I appreciate everybody's video for this log even. Yeah, this is obviously it's not really limits set. That's how it kind of Yeah, and far as on you know says like this is kind of evidence that things might not be quite right You know a kingdom should be led not dragged I'm just like everyone seems pretty in favor We've had like like like a strong amount of support One guy who he should have figured out was actually his son who blew the shit up Um, but yeah, like this basically this gives them pause for thought Which actually in in fairness to this plot line pushes them to believe that uh, it's gonna be we really need to get Whole brand on our team I think Galadriel actually mentions that at one point like it might be him Saying that he's willing to go might turn the tide on whether or not they actually go through with this traveling to Middle-Earth which Why I hope this is wrong like everything about it We've already seen actually there's a lot of public support against no There's a lot of public support against the war. I mean you have those scenes of far as I'm yeah I know and shouting against him far as on the cheerleader for the war. He's explained his reasons for wanting to go there Why is he the first person to be reluctant to go now? That something aberrant has happened like he should if anything he should be the person saying We shouldn't give into terrorists that sort of thing, right? Yeah, well finding any excuse because his reasons for wanting to go to war are not honorable to begin with He should be the last person who's trying to agitate against going now because of this minor setback It makes him look like a weirdly inconsistent coward And then the idea that a guy again who's been in prison yesterday should now be the only person who decides Whether we go to war or not is just compounding the problem that we identified right at the beginning Which is that all of this is hinging on the actions and beliefs of the least likely people in this entire kingdom To actually be placed in this position of responsibility Agree Um, but yeah, and then glad you was like our enemy grows stronger every day We cannot wait which I thought was really funny because by her own logic. She's been what going for like a whole more than a hundred years So uh What's a few more days galadriel chill out jesus we've got a whole city to sort out gosh never ends about you Uh Yeah, I think so just to clarify. I think this is the case, right? They went from five to three. That's the idea Yeah, yeah, we have this wide shot here of the two blown up. It looks like we got one two three four You're right But of course we saw way more than that earlier anyway, so I just I just don't get it I really don't understand presumably they have more than five right Yeah, they only decided to bring five for some reason Yeah, they set five out of their total to go to war and then two of them were blown up and it's like Okay, so we moved two from our stock into the war ones, right? It's like no Oh, okay, crazy We don't have we of all the countries that probably have expansive navies It's all right. I I am lost because those ships aren't there for a luxury of they're going to war. They're they're Logistically so like we have to replace them correct and the show just hand waves it Don't worry about it. It's only it's only 40 percent of our fleet And it's not even as if they're worried about sort of defensive concerns Or anything because we've basically shown that they don't have an army because the moment they needed one They had to just recruit from random people in the street. That's weird So it's not like they're constantly fighting people and it's like well, no, we we can't spare these because they're needed for other people So, uh, we then just opened a seat. I was so fucking blindsided by this Uh, kella brimble is handing elrond back mithril Good good secret the elrond But the like the thrust of this scene, however It doesn't address that he just says like sorry. I didn't tell you about the whole world ending thing And he was like, yeah, it's probably you probably should have told me that he's like, oh, I wanted to don't worry about it And then um kella brimble was like, yeah, so anyway the mithril. Yep. It's our salvation. I've tested it It's amazing. It can saturate every last elf with light. It's really the only thing that's gonna save all of us I'm just like, how did you have you been testing this this rock? Like did you get did you do all of that with elrond's mithril? Really did you have a When did all this happen? Unless of course, yeah, he's been testing mithril that he has But I don't think that makes any sense. Does it? No, that's elrond with a mithril one Yeah I don't think it makes any sense. And so we might have happened. Yeah, we're stuck at elrond. Just passed him them So elrond was like, I will not give, uh Gil galad the or I will give it to kella brimble though and you can do whatever you want with it Well, the weird thing about the oath is I I won't tell you about it There was never an oath about the bit of mithril that you got given That was the stupidest Elrond threw it to everybody. He was like, is this mithril? He goes, don't know what it is. It could be anything I can't tell you You just handed me those. I don't know it was weird I don't think it has anything to do with anything else Um, but yeah, there's this fucking sometimes you wonder he's like, that's so hilarious Elrond is like, so I must break my oath to save my people. It's like broken already What are you talking about? What would have been I guess something that just occurred to me is cella brimble is that kella brimble is like this master legendary craftsman It would have been really interesting to have a scene where he is introduced to mithril and he realizes like, oh Shit, like this is amazing having him say it. There would have been there would have been a lot of weight behind kella brimble Saying these things about this incredible material that even he in all of his Years hasn't seen anything like But like again that whole scene about the testing and him being shown it. It just wasn't it wasn't in The time that time was way better spent doing other things. He skipped it. I need it. He skipped it And yeah, so in response to elrond saying that he says your father was once asked why he must do a thing that he didn't want to do And and and he said because he was the only one that could do it Which doesn't really address elrond's issue at all Well, yeah, it goes back to conversations try to use emotional appeals and flowery pros in order to convince people of things Instead of just being practical with them and saying reason a reason b reason c Yeah, it's the same thing as like, I don't know if I wanted to go save somebody who's On a raft out there in the ocean But I don't know I can even do it. I might kill myself and the response is well, the c is always right The c is always right then just be like does that are you saying you're saying I should kill myself? Or that they deserve to die if they die or the what do you where are you going with this? It's been like elrond. You are the only person that can break your oath It's like I know that that's in anyone break your oath but yourself elrond He's like, no, I I guess not Um, but anyway, yeah, you just like you're just waiting for them to just be like We'll just explain to this doer in the situation. Well, you're gonna do and if he's like, I don't care. I hope you will die. It's like, well Well, you've got a bit of a question. I'm I yeah, then I suppose Maybe I'm gonna break my promise. You're a dick And then we get to the I'm sorry. I manipulated you know, I would like to manipulate you see Oh my goodness About this thing is that it doesn't go on forever that it does eventually end and this hellish torment can cease And you'd be you'd be forgiven for thinking it never ended, but it did eventually end It does go on a while I love having two characters that I actively do not like talking to each other in their own self-righteous Fucking ways about how wonderful they are. It's I I just don't what a What a useless pair of losers Taking a valuable screen time Basically says that he doesn't want to do the stuff she wants him to because everyone will eventually find out what he is Who he is what he's done and Oh, he can't be handling that And he's done such horrible horrible horrible things and then she's like, well Sometimes to find the light. We must touch the dog I hate that philosophy so much. Basically. Yeah, uh, you have to be able to do some good sometimes and justify the means It's like, holy crap. I mean I didn't even get that. I didn't even know what the front is supposed to mean I I think that's a fair interpretation. I just I when I know what evil is because I've seen darkness Or I've been around evil. So I'm aware of what goodness is What do you what are you actually saying? Yeah, because if she says you have to do a little bit of evil to know What doing good is I'd be like, what the fuck? Okay Yeah, then uh, he's like, what do you know of darkness? Who did you lose and she's like my brother? He goes, what happened because there's a pause It's kind of funny. She just goes he was killed And then it's like it's like he was killed by death Um, eventually says, you know, sarah did it and then he's like, why do you keep fighting? She's like because I cannot stop I just break that down. It's like her reason is basically Because because because I can't stop is no reason and so she literally is the air Because it's like Infantile moron She's actually she's actually asked if it's revenge that's motivating her and she says no Um, but revenge is the only thing that can explain The fact that she can't stop But yeah, what else would it be a denial to me? Well, I mean the threat of the end of the world, right? Not even well She could have said that there's a lot of justified reasons that she could say like, you know I don't want anyone to experience the pain of loss like I have Seeing, you know, the battle that they're fighting morgoth or a brother I think that could have worked or you know, we can't let evil spread There's so many easy answers and she just says because and it's like, oh Because I can't stop because me me me because me Yeah, I'm not trying to save the shire or the world or our kingdom Or just to stop evil. They're evil creatures. They hurt people all the time. They take things from people I want to stop the evil. It could have just been that For me that is such an obvious easy answer It feels like the writers are intentionally trying to make her the worst character possible You know what had been really neat is if Galadriel was like a lot of elves and was a fucking racist And then she went eventually went to numinor and got there and spent time with them They're like actually these are they're they're kind of nice, you know, they've been nice to me And I I see a I see a kindness in man that I've never known before and they you know I I thought all the elves are I want to save men too It's something that shows that she's grown and learned something or changed for the better I'm so I'm still sticking to this idea that what they are trying to do is introduce darkness to her because the darkness in her Is the thing saran exploits and they'll have this Uh, they'll have the moment where that you know, they get close over the course of multiple seasons And then immediately a saran is revealed to be himself He does that join me and together we can rule the galaxy as husband and wife moment And then she'll do that I'm not like you and he'll say you are just like me And then she'll say no, I'm not and then they'll go and fight and all the rest of that I'm sure you wrap that up. I think that with episode six I think they've wrapped that up and it's done and it'll never be a problem for her again I think this show thinks that it solved that issue I don't know I always got the sort of impression from sick one the fuck it will get to six But I mean I got the impression that they were still going to carry on doing that But that doesn't even this scene doesn't help even that interpretation though because But if you're wanting to give saran something to manipulate about her then having her admit to the To revenge revenge being a base motive introduces a flaw to her character But also a fear she has and also something for him to exploit whereas if she says It's not revenge well then a why the hell she's still clinging on to a dead brother's dagger and then What exactly does saran have to go on from just because just because isn't something you can work with as a manipulator It's actually it's it's kind of remarkable achievement and that this scene is actually obfuscatory rather than revelatory It does nothing. It actually does less. She's just blood thirsty. Is that what they're going for? Well, they kind of say that in the next episode That I actually only found peace when I was killing people next to you Even in this I don't think they actually understand their own motivation But well, I don't think they even understand the conversation because when hellbrands asking her why are you doing this? He's supposed to have like It's supposed to be like a battle of wills and he's the one which is That's his retort to her when he's just asking why you even doing this to me And she projects her own emotions onto him. She's like, well, I can't find peace here So you definitely won't be able to find peace here You've got to come with me and do the thing that I want you to ever have peace in the first place Yeah, she's awful. She even says you'll find peace in no other way apart from across the sea It's like holy crap, which is a horrible influence. It's like wow, but the show doesn't know that yet Everything that hellbrand does from this point onwards is all Galadriel's fault because if he just wanted to stay in Numanor He's wanted to grill make swords and everything. Yeah, just wanted to grill in Numanor grill some solids And I don't think they know that that's what they're about to do in the story And because if they do that at such a monumental moment that it should Go all throughout history. It should have been in the original trilogy and everything She should feel so much different than how she actually feels at the moment This actually destroys the entire future of lord of the rings in this one conversation And I don't think they even understand. I started a war in a foreign land for personal reasons. No biggie The only other interpretation Which is not one the show invites, but is the only one that's halfway sensible Is that Sauron already has these aspirations and he's been trying to manipulate her into sort of Committing to them on his behalf So like this is this is the excuse that he will give but she's not actually prompting. She's not providing the impetus To action he's been trying to manufacture this setup from the beginning That's the only one that I think would make any kind of sense and fit in with the story Is we know what happens much later on like it fits very well with like anything he's actually He's he's not done anything to facilitate that really other than just go. I don't want to I think I know I have a feeling that the story is just I think that's a missed opportunity as opposed to Something they're working against I think they just haven't thought to do it and that's going to be one of those instances where You've got this one missed opportunity that compounds itself over subsequent episodes and seasons And that's that's incompetence of a different sort. I don't think I would be really surprised if in the end It turned out that Galadriel had provided Sauron with the impetus to be evil again. I don't I can't imagine. Well, maybe I don't think so But it's just I think I think that it will be Coincidentally her fault, but she will be morally in the clear and it will not be a mark against her character the show will just say it was Kind of a secondary side effect of her doing this that has nothing to do with her Moral standing or responsibility so that they think they could get the best of both The thing is this scene though really establishes that Sauron here Doesn't want to be bad again. He doesn't want to go back to that life He doesn't want to return to that world that place And it's all Galadriel's selfishness here. That's pushing him back into that. I I agree with disbrew I think this is actually setting up that He will become Sauron and do all the bad things because you know the lord of the rings truly into stuff And it's now Galadriel's fault. Thanks to this scene. It's unbelievable I think I agree with rags that that will that may well be the consequence But it won't the story won't impugn Galadriel for it No, of course the the story thinks Galadriel is faultless, but well I think that's what rags was saying was that uh that he thinks that that's how it will play out But the show will not treat it as being Her fault it was something that happened and it stemmed from her decisions But it was not a direct consequence Of the of her decision and not something that should reflect badly on her I think that isn't it tragic that while you were being exactly you inadvertently did this thing Yeah, yeah, it'll match Gilgala's comment that in trying to stop evil. They accidentally emboldened it Anything I get I don't know we haven't set up that if she would have done nothing things would have been fine So it's hard to sympathize with that It this wasn't like a one-off line in one conversation that he had like even when they first arrived He's like, can you not just let me have peace? I like it here. I just want the peace He's repeated it time and time again and that she comes here and I hate how she apologizes And then just doesn't care about her own apology and goes to get that's what really piss me off I'm sorry that you don't agree with me. It's just it's god that's right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I use you I need to use you now though, please Like yeah, it doesn't now that we've now that we've settled that I do need to use you It doesn't stop there by the way. Yeah, we also have um another part of this conversation that drew me nuts When she recants the episode one event and says My men mutinied me It's like no, they didn't In fact, you mutinied the king. You fucking took your own orders. You were like, no fuck it I get to do whatever I want and they were like, no, we are months over our Orders were going back If anything, you're the crazy rogue, but she remembers the events as she was mutinied. It's amazing Yeah, she's the victim. It's like But like that to me. I think the writers would tell me like, well, no, they did mute me I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, you it's too late You've written it so that she has recontextualized events to sell herself as more of a victim than she actually was She's a piece of shit. It's too late. You've already ruined it And she has no idea why gilgill had sent her away at all. Like that was a reward for coming back Worse, she could have thought, well, they didn't want to send me off to go back up the air againer But she agreed to it So this whole idea that anyone thought she was as evil as sarron No point in episode one and two was that even suggested You know, it's funny as well as if she did manage to swim all the way back to shore Then she climbs like wherever she needs to go to get directly to gilgill out She's standing there like incredibly wet covered in mud like these crazy eyes or like red veins in them She's like, why did you send me away? It just goes is your fucking nuts? That's why I figured you would have figured that out by now But yeah, she just continues to be the most awful person Again her and her and gen walters kind of competing with each other every week Every week Oh, yeah, I can outdo you with this Have you watched the new episode yet or I have not no I have Neither of I It's uh, because I mean for this I I actually held off on watching these two episodes until I only had two hours before I wanted to go to sleep to get up for this. I just I can't be asked and it's the same for shihoke It's just like, oh shit. We got to talk about it. Yep. All right. Better get caught up That's a great sign In this one, so you got a lot to This show though, I mean if you're right in your interpretation and that the Galadriel is responsible for sarah and becoming evil again It does clearly answer the question of who is worse Galadriel or shihoke because the worst shihoke does is is being incredibly narcissistic And and self-centered whereas in this case Galadriel is according to your interpretation in any way. She is actually bringing back the evil If she knows you're doing that destroy the world No, but narcissists never do know that that's a the full consequence. Oh sure But what I'm suggesting is that shihoke is almost equally narcissistic But she doesn't have willed ending consequences as a result of it actions, which to be fair She probably could she's in the mcu, which if she does anything wrong step in the right place and she does end the world True, but we're going back to that moral luck question earlier is is the action morally bad just because of the results that it has Yeah, I actually was it made worse by if someone went out like a friend went out drunk driving and didn't hit someone I would condemn them like crazy for doing that And best-case scenario with Galadriel. She is knowingly destroying hella brand's life. Yeah, exactly Hella brand is like I want I want peace. I want, you know Tranquility and she's like no you need a you'll only find peace doing what I say Which is so self-serving and so narcissistic and she has no guarantee That that would actually give him peace because as I give it her peace It's bull crap that she says she found peace that way and so it is all manipulation And at at his expense and so she is happy to ruin someone's life to serve her own ends And I haven't seen gen do something that extreme yet. So Yes I'm happy to concede Galadriel's worse I just find it funny because the two new shows coming out with female leads are just they're both horrible people I was just gonna ask quickly so like on on this subject of um of sarah and who's manipulating who So I I'm finding your argument distressingly compelling The thing that's holding me back from it is a I refuse to believe the writers because it ever conceptualized sarah on as being good But now I've said that they almost certainly could the only other thing I'm thinking about what they're doing with the orcs I think I'm there. There is that. Yeah. Um, I think there's different reasons for that though The the thing that's holding me back The otherwise and the thing sort of in the show itself is you have those lines You have that exchange with him where he's explaining to her Exactly how he is manipulating her he gives her lessons on manipulation So if he's having agency in manipulating people and the and the show is giving very sort of over references to his manipulative nature How does that square with the idea that he is the purely innocent party in this that's being manipulated by Galadriel? Because the writers are so incompetent that they can't execute it I like if they try and say that this was sarah and manipulating her the whole time I'll say bull crap what you showed was not that at all It might have been your intent But this is where I would play death of the author card because you did not have the competence to play it off You have shown Galadriel manipulating him and it would be like they were so desperate to try and um throw people off the scent of sarah's manipulation that they now Have not betrayed him doing any manipulation or and there's no sign at all No, yeah, they've done an awful job of setting up that this guy is I don't know what how he's going to work to just if they do the thing of like i'm sarah On by the way lolulululululululululu i'll be like wow That's it really But if they have like I don't know a big old shadow appears around him and then absorbs into him He goes oh, i'm sarah now. I'll be like right that makes a little bit more sense. I guess Because I I don't think they've set him up as sarah on at all up to this point Yeah, because I don't really think he's been manipulating her at all He's kind of been begging it There have been times where he's manipulated other people, like Farazon to get what he wanted, but if you say that he's literally come from being Sauron, then I don't think getting like a guild crest or whatever is that big of a deal, and it's like he's trying to find pieces on the road to redemption. He wants to be redeemed and wants to change his ways. I think you can you have like the odd like lie or whatever along the way. It's not like because even in the in the alleyway, yes, he did batter them, but only after he was pushed to a point where he couldn't really resist. So he fell into his old ways. He was trying to tell them, please just leave me alone. Or the entire thing has been him going, I don't want to do this, please don't make me do this because I know where I'll end up. Rather than this reading his manipulating of other people occasionally is just evidence of his latent evil, but nevertheless, the thing he's trying to overcome. Yes, I think that especially when you've been that bad, doing something like lying, you'd probably consider yourself not to be like that's a big step up for you on the. Because, yeah, if it's going to be that he's actually evil, Sauron is manipulating Galadriel to do what he wants. How does this scene, you can't explain this scene, like his lines where he says, I don't want to go back to what I was doing. I swore to never return there. Why is he saying that? Because all that's doing is trying to convince Galadriel to not go and fight, but that's what he wants. I'm assuming you're suggesting she could have at any point been like, okay, I understand, then leaves. Yeah. And he'd be like, oh, fuck my whole plan. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. He only goes after she's told him that he will not find peace, which is what he said what he was here for. So he kind of goes with everything's like, well, okay, if she says I'm not going to find peace here, my only chance at it is with you over there. And then that's what drags him back into his old ways. But if he could actually be right that he could get peace here, then she's the one that caused all of it. I'm aware that I'm now sounding like I'm doing a lot of work on the part of the writers. But the line in the prison, which I think is the most instructive one when he's teaching her about what manipulation is. And he says, what was it? He says something like you show people their fears. And and she says, and you exploit it. And he says, no, I think he says you give it to them. I think that's what he says. Give you the weapon to fight it or something. And then you master it. It was it was analogy of the one ring. Give them the thing that they want. And you make sure you have ability to have mastery over that thing. And you will master them. So what is he doing in this scene then when he's talking about when he's talking to Gladriel about his refusal to go, he's established that what she fears is peace. He is giving her peace. He is establishing himself as the tool which can be used against her. He is the very thing that she refuses to accept could exist. That's what he's presenting as. But that makes him integral to her plans, because then you get to the point where they go to the Queen's Council. And it's his word against everybody. His word is the one on which everything in the future then hinges, because he's established this position of trust and influence, precisely by portraying himself as being against the thing that he secretly wants to happen and therefore playing up on Gladriel's fears of peace, which is what he's showing to her. I'm now aware that that sounds way too nuanced for the writers, but that would be how I'm seeing this. He's denied that at every single step of the way. My point is, he would deny it. That's the key to the manipulation. No, because she said, you're the king. I need you. Then he could be like, yep, and go along. If he just said yes right from the start, then how would he have got? We'd still be in exactly the same place as we are now. If he true, because if this was Sauron's master plan, that means Sauron really does want Gladriel to go off on this war to potentially either spread war, corrupt or whatever, set himself up as the leader in the Southlands, everything. He could have done a lot of things to help that goal more than what he's done. In fact, he's tried to work against it at every point. He could have just said, oh, you're right, I am the king. I don't really, but maybe with you. That's what I mean. If this was supposed to be his master plan, that he manipulated Gladriel to do that, he has been actively working against it at every point. And his own actions of support is his own story. Yes, he lied to somebody to get what he wanted, which could be slipping back into his old ways, but that was only to get a guilt crest because he wants to forge and forging gave him peace. So his actions, which don't really event like she doesn't care whether he was forging or not at the end of the day. So his actions back up his own sort of internal desires rather than some hidden narrative. And they might try and say there was one, but I don't think they've actually. Yeah, I would call bullcrap. I'll be like, all right, where was he actually subtly manipulating the thing to achieve this result of Mount Doom exploding and all that bullcrap and everything when if you actually just what he's doing is constantly trying to do the opposite. And it's like, well, he's either the worst, you know, person to orchestrate his plads or they're full of crap, you know? Yeah, I think the defense about this is this is from the same people that said that Gil-galad and Calibriam Boar's master plan to find Mithril was to say, Jiren's back in a little bit weird, hasn't he? And then you're supposed to find out that's an intricate plan to get our runs to do exactly what they wanted. So it could, yeah, they could just come out and say it and hope everyone believes them. Yeah, you make a convincing case. I think maybe you just exposed that I have a misplaced basic element of faith left over that the writers will not completely be fucked in the future. It's a really shit scene. It does not help her at all. It makes everyone incredibly confused as to what the fuck whole brand is going to be up to in the coming episodes, but we'll get more on that as time goes on. We now cut to, you know, you remember all the first hour of this stream where we talked about how a bunch of people decided to swear fealty to orcs? We're going to catch up with them now, see what they're up to. So, they're led by, what was Oldman's name again? I don't know. When, uh, Wodalg, Hodalg? Oh, Waldrig. Waldrig. Hodalg, close enough. Yeah, so they turn up and, uh, this is funny because of the actually like, lift us up, lift us up. And, uh, like, I, I pledge my undying service to you, Lord Sauron. It was such a moment of, um, at least to me anyway, that he like frowns at him and you're like, oh, this is going to be like a weird move from him, right? To imply, is he, is he Sauron? In the next episode, he's like, I'm not Sauron. They're really enjoying making people think that Hulbred isn't Sauron, I guess, because it's all such nonsense, right? Like trying to bait that it's not Gandalf or Adar, or whoever else. When it's just like, was that the whole point of this show? Just to be like, which one's Sauron? Which one? I mean, Adar would just, he would have just told his orcs he was Sauron, right? Well, he's not though, right? So he's, well, I mean, if, if the show was trying to say, if the show was baiting, which one is actually Sauron, why wouldn't Adar have just told his, why wouldn't he be going by that name to his own orcs? Well, they very deftly would have said Sauron goes by many names. Oh, oh, he goes by many names. All Adar is one of them. Oh, okay. Well, that's, okay. All right then. I go by one name. Well, yeah, fair enough. Well, he doesn't. So that was enough for everyone to go. That could be Sauron, but yeah. And it's kind of baffling because he's like, you know, he like grabs him by the throat and pushes him over and he's like, are you not Sauron? Okay, fine. I'll, whoever you are, I'm loyal to you, I guess. I just kind of found it. It's like, one of those genuine human moments in this whole show was Waldrick just being like, dude, I don't, if you're not, so that's fine. I didn't mean to call you or whatever. I'm saying I'm your slave. Okay. It should be okay. Are you, are you chill? Like, what's, what's going on? I didn't mean to upset you. Like, I don't know. You wanted my allegiance? You got it. All right. Here I am. Let's go, let's go, I don't know, build infrastructure or something. So then something awkward happens. Ada, like, you got to, the only bond is blood and you've got to draw blood and they give him Waldrick a knife and they suggest he's got to do something to kid here or teen guy here. What did everybody think was happening here exactly? That he wanted Waldrick to kill this guy in order to show that he really was loyal. Yeah, that's what I got from it. Yep. Do you think it's worth if he just cut him and was like, there you go, I drew blood? Would Ada be like, uh, I'm not a man, buddy? Yeah. I mean, if it's blood, you said blood, not like death or killing or, you know, you said blood, I'm going about what you said. I might not look it, but I'm a bit of stickler for, you know, protocol here. It's not really the spirit of what I was saying, Waldrick. I want you to kill him. And then Waldrick's like, well, maybe you should have been more specific. Hey, we should kill one of the old, old ones that can't fight good. Why would we kill the young, super healthy guy again? Ada's like, it's about the point, about the message. It's not, it's not about old or young. I am not an Uruk that is loved. So, uh, yeah, I guess he does it because we don't see this kid again. So Rip, he was, uh, he was your favorite character, right? And somebody, somebody's favorite character here, I think was that guy. He's Fringis, yeah. Yeah, Fringis. Sorry about that. I'll save him. He's a better actor than the main team guy is. So possible miscasting. I think also that more, more reasonable explanation. Wouldn't it be funny if the most common conclusion is the only one that was well cast with Disa? She's all right. She's kind of fun. We like her. It's like, oh, well, I mean, just everybody else. There's a lot of wooden acting in this, unfortunately. There is no more than they don't even have ends here. So go back to the watchtower and, uh, and they're practicing some archery, um, firing arrows into a wooden door, which if you're going to, if you're going to be proud, I imagine that if, if you're spending all this time and effort sharpening arrows, making the arrowheads, getting them all nice for this battle, you're practicing from 20 feet away by shooting at a hard wooden door. Like, I don't know, man. I feel like you're going to lose a lot of your arrows doing that. Get like a, some straw to shoot into. Right. I'm sure there are plenty. They must have loads. Remember, they have all that food. So I'm sure they had plenty of warfare resources too. The elves wouldn't have taken that when they left the watchtower. They would have left all of their, uh, warfare weapons there, right? So it's a good, it's good that you're practicing at such short range at an object that will clearly damage many of these arrows, therefore not being able to use them against torques. This is a, this is a sound strategy. And he gives them a little, uh, pep talk, I think. Or rather, no, they're like talking about why the elf is, uh, is here, I think. And he's like, cause you guys hate us. And it turns out that we are pretty evil, I guess. Um, cause yeah, he said that whenever we had a knife to sharp, you would, you would come down on us. And the elf guy was like, yeah, well, among every, among the knives, I heard whispers and I learned to trust some of those whispers or something like that. Never been like, he just said a, he just been up front and said, yeah, but in our defense, we are racist. I, well they're both like, both teams have loads of racism in it. It's just like, yeah, well, whatever. Like if he said like, why are you here? You hate all of us. So he was like, I don't know, man. I mean, how could you did just go swear filthy to orcs? So maybe we were, that's the fight. Well, that comes up and it's the best, the best part of this fucking conversation. It's like, why would you trust us? Half of us left. He goes, but half of you stayed. I mean, he's not wrong. He's like, he's the last half fork kind of guy. I mean, his entire instruction on archery was aim higher. So I don't think he's good at advice to begin with. He's tangling up those metaphors. It's just like, oh, he's, in this moment, he's a personification of the whole show. It's just like tangling up shit and trying to come across as an intelligent and insightful. Also, the forgetful aspect of kids gripe is that the elves have been watching the humans too closely, but apparently not closely enough that they spotted huge tunnels, burned down forests, soup towels. All of these massive world shifting things the orcs have been doing for the last however long it's been. Sure, but they did notice the whispers among the knives. Yeah, see? It's like you, it's like you ignored that because you're bad faith thing. He clearly said something about whispers and knives. He definitely did, but I then I'd question why he's listening so intently to the cutlery draw and not actually opening his eyes. What did his alfie see? Now, it's just so painfully boring. He's like, I do not care. Let him die. Get rid of him. Like, just to, you know he said he was a half, a glass half full kind of guy. If the whole conversation is about whether or not the men are worth saving, that his like counter to them as a collective is that half of this whole fucked off, if the counter is half state, he's like, I know that. That was implicit in my statement of half left. I'm saying it's really bad that half left, okay? And he'd probably be like, oh yeah, no, I agree. That's pretty bad actually. He should have been a bit more explanatory with him focusing on the, you know, the optimist side and that sort of thing is like, do you think, you know, another people, you know, half of you would have stayed to fight or something like that? Or I mean, something to try and turn it around the narrative. This reveals how much of a low opinion he really had of the humans that is impressed that half state is like, I thought only one or two of you are gonna say, I thought you're all gonna be going over the evil, but half state, I've been pressed. Oh, I believe it. He can just say something very opaquely about having, you know, higher loves than whatever it is that, you know, the base loyalty, for example, but at least you could do it a slightly more subtle hinting at his relationship with whatever his woman's name is, as opposed to the really overt and tedious and very cringy flirting they do later. Oh yeah, you often forget that they just have a relationship, these two like love each other. It's something you legitimately forget because it's so poorly. Five hours in, you must have had plenty of content to understand their relationship at this point. That is true, I have a lot of context for why they like each other, how they met, what they see in each other, just so much, it's a very thoroughly explored relationship. And so, so relatable. EO is like, hey bro, check out my cool, cool hilt. And Alfman's like, oh my God, what a hilt. I've seen this before and then like moves 10 steps to the left. Oh my God, this fucking scene. You know, the bigger thing that was funnier to me was the fact that him walking over to it and fiddling around with some vines, the whole town are like, oh my God, what have you done? Hey, that guy fiddling with vines? Hey, Gary, check out this guy. The old fiddling with some vines is like, yeah, that's what they do. It's the Simpsons meme where Grandpa Simpsons sits on a stump, starts talking, and then Milhouse goes, look everyone, an old man is talking. They all just run over. That's a good reference. That's a good reference. The same thing, they're all just fascinated by the fact that he's pulled away something that's always been there. It's just, and then, yeah. No one's noticed it. The elves in the hundreds of years they've been here, him personally here for 79 years, never noticed that there was this creepy ass fucking carved wall right here in the courtyard that signaled the doom of the world. It's hard to miss, you know, but I guess you can't catch them all, I suppose. I'm glad you got the whispers among the knives. That was important. I was just being that writer's from. We need the next thing to happen. So what can we have him do? Where has he seen this before? I don't know. Right next to him? Just stick it on the wall there? That's good enough. Who the fuck wrote this? It's staggeringly contrived. It's even more baffling when you find out what it means. Oh, gosh. It's like, I thought that this was gonna be like maybe a dark doorway entrance to a tunnel that leads to the bowels of Mount Doom that Sauron set up previous end, and the elves found it and built their tower to block off and protect it and make sure no one could find it. And holy crap, could I have not have been more wrong? I was just gonna say, like, that errant thought you're having about the potential storyline these writers are gonna come up with is so much better. Than what they come up with. It's dead. It's a key to open a spillway. And it's like, why would Sauron make this evil mural for like a very functional kind of mechanic of a dam? So you know for a fact that if Sauron had a toaster, it would be red and black. You would have hordes. It's just how things work, Shad. It's always been. Like, it's not like at this point that they don't know what they've got because Arinder knows it's a key. So the first question would be, well, where's the lock? And the lock is right at their feet as they are standing here. There's a big hole that would fit a sword. And they're both like, oh, just nobody looked down. Otherwise we're in trouble and we'll destroy your entire story. Should we put like a rock in there or something? Is it sand or gravel? We had hundreds of years to deal with this problem. Yep. They could have plugged it with something and that would fuck up the entire plan, but that's fine to worry about it. I'm sure the chances of the key going into this hole are so small that we don't even have to bother with any sort of defensive questions. But when you find out what the key actually does, it turns out you don't even really need the sword to do that to open the spillway. Just hit it with a couple of solid hammers and you've got the job done. And what's weird is like Adar, he actually seems to know that's what the purpose of the key is because he says what's his guy named to do it. And then it's like you didn't even need the key, you didn't even need to go to all the trouble. The elves abandoned the tower, no one was there and you chasing the humans to like, no, you could have just walked to the dam and opened it up at your leisure. It's so stupid. To leave the tower and not, you know, not... What was that thing where you spiked the cannons essentially with this e-hole? Feel like before we left, by the way, we never got any, the elves never came back to investigate what happens to all the elves. No, I don't. It's so stupid. They totally, they just left. None of them care that all of them had been killed. It's just like, what do you... None of the elves at home mention it. We're building a tower right now, go away. Also, that's all, think of that as a big old next time on Evefab sort of thing because that's going to be all episode six. And unfortunately, we're still, we still got like 10 minutes of this episode left, so we're not going to be able to cover the other one tonight. All right, I'm sorry, Chad. You know this happens. Having seen episode six, I now know to book Monday off work. Yeah. Blossoms into problems. We think, oh, five. It wasn't that, it wasn't that meaty. And then you start looking into it and you're like, fucking hell. It really was just rife with issues every scene. There hasn't been one scene where we can just say, yeah, that was good. Well, so... You think back, Rags, for anyone, we first covered the show like episode one. It went pretty fast. Fairly fast. Those first two episodes were a bit of an anomaly in terms of emptiness. I think that what's happened is that the longer the show's gone on, the more time it's had to fuck up. That's basically, the story has expanded, more characters are thrown in, more factions. The decisions are made. A lot of complexity is starting to, things are all coming together. Because I think we said it. For as little was achieved in those first two episodes, there was definitely a lot of breaches anyway, but now they've managed to establish more and breach, like the inconsistencies have just piled on to where the show is pretty terrible, I would say, at this point. Absolutely. I don't think it would be worth praising in it, and there's a lot to criticize about it. Again, it's worth mentioning, for the people who don't watch the show and watch our coverage of it instead, or anyone's here, this is pretty atrocious, and the worst episode is the one we have not covered yet. No, yeah, because episode six is, is man, holy shit. That's the way to sum it up, yeah. For glad real. So we have, yeah, the little chat between LadyGill and Elfman, and so they're going to talk, and he says to her, your son has what the enemy leader needs to take over the world and become a god, basically. And she takes this information really casually. She's like. It just goes, it just follows. Theo's been, I mean, that, that's Theo, you know. Yeah, Theo's gotten cool enough at something, he always gets us, boys will be boys. We all know him. I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case. I always knew that Theo would be the death of the world. It annoys me that. Teenage boys, am I right? She doesn't have every question on her mind. Like, where the hell did Theo get this thing from? In which case, Theo should probably mention to everybody, I got it from Waldrig. He actually is the one that had this in his barn, and he's very much loyal to Sauron. So better be careful with that guy. I mean, it's a bit late now. He's already gone, but whatever. Secondly. But if you see him in the future, hanging around after a battle or something, maybe we should stop him and run out. Stab him in his face over and over again. Maybe just put that in the baby pot. Oh, sorry. Well, that stab twist got the face. With men, it's got twist stab. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, that's works. It's it's it's complicated formula. The order is important. She said she'd keep it simple. This wasn't simple. This is difficult. So yeah, she doesn't question the whole become a god pot. She's just like, Yeah, we better stop that from happening. It's like, yeah. Okay, fine. I guess there's no curiosity as to how it'll all happen or why they definitely believe this is true. She just she's like, yeah, sure. And then of course, just like the nature of the fact that the enemy leader of this army of demon things is after an item your son happens to have. Takes us so well. Just I just don't get it. And by the way, this might actually be consistent. You remember her reaction to that whole village being annihilated was like, Oh yeah, right. So this point is like, is it the actress? Is it the directing? Is it the script? Maybe it's all of them. All of the above. What are they supposed to say? The conclusion they draw is, well, we have to hide this thing. It doesn't seem to make a very much of an effort to hide it. I think it just keeps it in his pocket. But I'm sort of thinking watching it's like, you know, if you've lost your car keys, just just in your front room, you've lost your car keys and how it can take hours to find them down that particular part of the sofa that they've fallen down. You've got an entire world you could take that thing to. You've got ample time to escape. It's only one. There are no copies. Just give it to your fastest runner and tell them to run away. And Sauron or Ada is basically fucked for the foreseeable because it's going to take him a long time to find it and even longer time to find it than it's already taken. Yeah, that's if Ada doesn't realize that he could just break open the dam whenever he wants with a couple of strong hammers. Yeah. But if, yeah, if they really wanted to get rid of it and they actually had it even shorter time, there's a really, really deep dam like you're right next to that, you know, just throw it in the middle of that thing, swim out a bit, drop it and holy crap, no one would ever find it again. They actually say at one point, give it to the Numenorean so they can drop it in the ocean. Well, you've got something kind of similar to that. It's right next to you. It's effectively, you know that scene, holy fuck. You could just go out into a forest and dig a hole and bury it and nobody would find it. Yeah, because there's no, there's no tracker on this thing of any kind, right? It's not even like the ring where the people are drawn to anyway. It seems to be, it seems to be that it is an object that you need to see to know that it exists. And if that's the case, no different than anything. Oh, it's no different. Like, yeah, exactly. So like in that case, just go out into the forest, dig a really deep hole and bury it. Even like before you do that, encase it in concrete color of different, like put it in a brick, put it in some wall. Yeah, just do something other than just fucking around. Like in this little fort, you have so many options. For the stakes, what they are, yeah, you should probably be like one person needs to, your only job is to hide them. And remember, when you do bury it, if you decide to bury it in the rag, make sure you like unfurl it and check that it's in there first before you bury it. You wouldn't want to, you wouldn't want to accidentally place it. I don't understand. Why would you say that? Any person would obviously do that. Why would you mention that? That seems weird. Yeah, you're saying you wouldn't be able to tell instantly just by the weight. Well, I mean, maybe that's the thing, right? You would tell by the weight and shape of it. So I don't even need to open this. I know with like absolute certainty that this is not a tomahawk. I will snake the fate of the world on my certainty. I'm so sure. Yeah, I'm so sure that I will. Well, you could possibly be referencing. But what could we put? Well, I mean, we're not referencing. We're just floating some ideas. Just hypothetically, if that was to be a thing. Hypothetically. You should be watching out for. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, that's good to keep in mind. I don't think any of these characters are going to make a mistake like that. That seems responsible. No, obviously. I know. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. You need guilt? Exactly. It would be obvious. How retarded, astronomically stupid would you honestly have to be to not be out of no instantly? Yeah, I think you guys should have more faith in the writers. They're not stupid. Yeah. You know, the consequences of mistaking a tomahawk for a hilt in this case could entail an option of a massive volcano, for instance. But I mean, that's just one of many. The apocalypse, the apocalypse in 3,000 years of misery. Yay. All rest on your certainty of the shape and weight of the hilt. So then the purpose of the scene comes before the characters in it again. This is something I want to work backwards of. I don't typically do it, but I'd like to do it for this scene, just in general. The end of this scene is Bromwin saying something like, you know, it's pretty much over. They've won. This tower will fall. And then she has like a look. And when I was watching the rags, we both hadn't seen the next episode yet. It was like, oh, so they're going to topple the tower on purpose to try and use it as like a weapon. And immediately we were like, I don't know if that was... First of all, how are you going to set that up? And secondly, like, how's that even going to work? That seems pretty unreliable. You know, just all the normal thoughts. But I guess we'll put them to one side. All the thoughts are going to rise. Oh my God. Yeah. What was it about that? I did not pick up on that. Like, you know, this tower will fall. I thought it was just them saying, you know, being overtaken. Like defeated in battle, you know. That's what I think that's what she is saying. They're trying to be clever writers. She has the realization. I think you're pointing it out. I think the writers are actually foreshadowing that point it out. And it just makes it more stupid. Yes, it really does. But the point I want to make is they wanted to get her to say that line to then very cleverly be like, I will fall, but not in the way that you think. How do we get her to say that line? It's like, well, we needed to despair a little bit, right? So let's have the conversation go that way. And man, they went insane. This is a lady who like constantly is the leader and the hopeful person and will take you through everything. La, la, la. In this conversation, what he explains, like, oh, yeah, we've got this, so we've got this, this, this, this. This is our reason for this situation. She just like 180s her personality to the point where she's like, we're all destined to be horrible, horrible people. We joined Borgoth as a bunch of us as a left. We're not going to be able to beat them. It's all over. We've lost. We're dead. And even Elford's like, dude, come down. What the hell? Where did this come from? She is a lot. Is it that time? She walks out into the public square, just us declaring that we're all fucked. We're just dead. It's like, what the? Just a reminder, we did not elect you as our leader. Don't listen to her. You didn't even elect her. It's fine because you get to wear blue. It doesn't mean you're better than us. To do this in public in front of the people, you are the reason they're still here. And now you walk out into the crowd and say, yeah, maybe I was wrong. Maybe we are all just dicks. And so let's just give up. No. Like I said, I'm almost certain they assassinated her character in order to have a line they thought was clever. But she was like, they're going to topple our tower. You say they assassinated her character. I do. I'm claiming that. And I'm sticking to it. She had something of a character. She said, you didn't have a character. Oh, my question was going to be, can you, can you kill a dead thing? You can kill vampires, right? They're dead. Oh, they're undead. Yes, you can kill an undead. And that brings in, oh, then she's undead. So much fine text on the bottom of that one. We're not even going to have this getting started about. I actually don't think she's inconsistent. If we take it as a, you know, she is kind of, because like the fact that she's so caring about getting everybody to safety and stuff, but then she'll simultaneously not give a shit when people die in the other village. It's like, that's already pretty bad. Yeah. And it just like, it seems to come out of nowhere. This character who's really big on, we got to do this, got to do that. I've got a plan. You do this. All of a sudden, no, the hell is doomed, all the logs. Yeah. They broke her again, is what I'd say then. But they break everybody all the time, so whatever. I mean, they'll break her back in. I don't know if you could, I don't fucking know. Which takes us to the realization that the table thing was indeed a lie. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah. That's dumb. I explained why. And so Elrond is trying to get the thing that he wants to say. Out. And Euron says, enough with the quail sauce. Give me the meat and give me it raw. I can't believe that. That's a great line, boys. That's a great line. They must have known when they wrote it. Elrond, give me that meat raw, Elrond. I mean, it makes everybody think of stuff in particular. That's fine, dude. I prefer my meat raw. I could excuse a couple of naive people that might not have such dirty minds and everything. But that's great. It ain't about dirty minds. It's just through a lot of people before I had no one. No one said, you do realize what it sounds like, right? Factor when he was, you know, he was thinking it when he was saying it. He's like, oh, this is just like, this is like a come on. He forgets on the stone to announce it. You've got, I'm rock hard for your raw meat. Elrond. Enough with the quail sauce. I don't even know what that means. I know, that's just stupid, but there's already enough, like, quail sauce is kitchen between these two. And then he comes out with that line on toughest. I think in this, in this analogy, give me the sauce with your raw meat, Elrond. Quail sauce is lube in this analogy, I'm sure. Oh, okay. He's like lubed up enough. Now give me the raw meat. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to harvest only the slipperiest of quails. So, yeah, then Elrond says, seriously, Elrond is actually brain dead. He says, I thought I came for friendship, but I came for the mithril. It's like, what? No, no, you didn't. You thought you were coming for a proposition to get the mining job done. Then you were told they have a secret thing you should probably try and find. You did, because you eavesdropped on them. And then you said, I promise not to tell anyone. And then you did. You're just a bad person. You're having trouble figuring it out. I don't know. And honestly, like, Durin's response here should be like, you scumbag. You lied to me the whole time. You lied to my face. And you think, I'm just going to let it go. And that's what they do. He just like, Durin doesn't even blink at this. Yeah, it's really annoying, because this was the foundation of all of this stuff even being able to get this far in the season. It was like, I don't even believe you are. Because remember on the elevator ride, where he's like, ah, there it is, a proposition. That's why you're actually here. And then he's like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, we're totally friends. But he's telling him now, right now, like, I thought it was for friendship, but it really wasn't. It was for the very thing you thought that I was secretly coming up here to do that you made you hate me and the elves. Like, oh. Hey, never. He doesn't explain it. So he doesn't explain that Calibur and Gil-Galad were manipulating him. And that's what he means. So all Durin should think is that actually he was knowingly manipulating him from the start. So he actually has a decent excuse to use. But for some reason just no one takes it that way. Durin knows because, you know, he's read the script with one of the other conversations where it's always not bothered. And this is the thing that I find beyond frustrating as well. It's like, we've got all the truth out there. So what's Elrong going to do to convince him? He's like, well, you see, you need to save my entire race by providing that material. Durin accepts that 100%. He doesn't for a second go, wow, that's pretty convenient, isn't it? You can justify all of this by saying that if I don't give it to you, you all die. How do you know that? It's a fucking, the mineral. I don't even know how to classify it exactly. But how do you know that this thing is saving your whole race? He's like, trust me, bro. I have sources. My mind flashes back to the scene in an episode. I've already forgotten which one it was for. Where's the one? He goes down into the mines of Moria. He finds out that they know about the Mithril. And Durin comes as he's sneaking around the tunnels and he makes him swear on the sacred rock thing and on his mother's life and on everything else that he will tell no one about any of this and that he was in fact just here for friendship. And Elrond says all of this. But the show took time out of its day to make this clear. And there's no payoff for any of this. It doesn't remember what it did. Elrond doesn't seem to remember what he did. And he doesn't understand what's happened to him. And Durin doesn't care about the thing that he insisted Elrond swore on to begin with. So apparently you don't remember something that completely sets that up perfectly. In episode two, Elrond swears that if he loses the stone breaking challenge, he'll be banned from Old Dwarvenlands forever. And then he wasn't. So there you go. Nothing means anything is the whole point, right? Nothing means anything. The value of promises in this world are... Wow. Well Durin's just an absolute pushover. Like everyone can do anything they want with him. And he just, he can talk a bit of a big game but he just, he gives up eventually every time. Doesn't mean any of this stuff. And it's really annoying because like, you know that if he did have a spine, he could probably rise to being the best character pretty quickly. But oh well. Yeah, and I thought it was funny that these two were like joking and laughing and trying to get all this stuff done. They're like, all right, let's go back. Let's get this Mithril sorted out. We're gonna do it. I'd like it. I thought it was hilarious. There's just this shot of Gilgalad watching them from above where he's just like, my whole fucking world is about to be destroyed. These just, these fuckers are just laughing. Sort of this Mithril thing. It's like, Jesus Christ. He just looks disappointed. I think he was hoping that they got up to some other thing. You know, there was meat being mentioned and it's like, yeah, oh, come on. I gave him Gilgalad. What are your elf eyes here? Elf ears here. He's like, I think you're talking about, I don't know. I must, I can't quite hear him. Well, maybe he's just like reveling in the fact that this is an insane world. We thought we were about to all die, but luckily the dwarves like found the exact thing we need. Five minutes ago, they found the thing we need. Always, always just standing up there thinking, I really fucking like that table. Yeah. And he just found out that he was lying. So he's like, wow, what a dick, but I'm not going to say anything to me, the Mithril. Plus we had elves bring it back. I had to send elves to bring it back manually with ropes around their necks, with just ropes around their necks. That's not going to be, that's not comfortable now. Think about what it, think about what it's like 100 miles down the road. You're going to be fucked up, mate. No. Hang on. They give it, give me the meat, give me raw light, right? I was just thinking, how could that have slipped in? And I was reminded one time when like, like I had a friend who was trying to write a story and it was like, what's a good way to write a story? And I just wanted to mess with him because I knew he wouldn't know the context I said, you could start it with it was a dark and stormy night. It was like, oh, that's great. And he writes that down. And I'm wondering, like, you know, there was a writer's like, all right, we want to do it to like, you know, get upset. What could I say? And someone just was best because they know that they have no idea. Yeah. What about this line? Now we got the subtext and the writer's like, that's great. They put it in and it was just. The writer's like, do people eat raw meat? Like, yeah, they actually prefer it raw a lot of the time. Yeah. Dwarfs don't have to cook their meat. If they do, it's just for flavor. They can eat it. They can eat it raw and that's fine. Yeah. So Halbrand clearly the many raw meat. They're just slathered in dirt all the time. They probably live in caves. And so for those who don't know the context, it's been considered that it was a dark and stormy night is the worst beginning to any story ever written. And so. Yeah. Saying it was a bright and sunny day is actually the best way to start a story. Oh, yes, indeed. So Halbrand's considering it. He's like, why do what do I do? And the way this is sold is that it was like almost like a coin flip. It came so close, but he decided, yes, he will go. And they skip to literally him on his horse and the war's about to go off and start when they told us that his decision to become king and lead his men is going to be something he needs to speak on and like the council to convince new manure to really go through with the war. And we didn't see any of that. Nope. We totally lost an opportunity to get his perspective explained to other people as to why he made this decision, why he kept it under wraps, maybe what he was afraid of, maybe what he stands to gain from this, his acceptance of his duty, any of that stuff could have had that, could have had other characters reacting to it, could have had the Numenoreans reactions to this being told to him, hey, now we have a man, not an elf, who has a legitimate royal claim to a throne in the Southlands that we're trying to... All that, nah, don't need it. We got boats to sail, bitches. I don't even know that they recognized that was a missed opportunity as a writer. They probably like, no, why would anyone want to see that as boring? I don't think so. They just wanted to skip to the... I just wanted to skip to it. He decided it and so they're sailing. Well, yeah, and that's what we see, this shot. So they got... Is it three ships in total that really truly is it? Yeah, three. And I don't see why they would have reduced the overall amount of people who are heading for this war. So that means they just pack to the five people's, or five ships worth of people onto three ships, right? Oh, I thought they just have to cut 200 people. Yeah, I thought they'd go down to 300. I just can't believe that. You started up this war effort, you have 500 volunteers and then you're just like, well, two ships got blown up so you can't come now. And it's like... Well, they said they had more than 500. You wouldn't have charged for 500 for a reason, right? I thought, yeah, I thought they actually did filter them. In theory, even with 500, I was questioning... And we know they have more ships, but they're not willing to spear though. I guess the city's like, no, we need it for transport and trade and you just can't. You had 500 men and you're sending your queen regent aboard to a foreign continent. I thought even with 500 men, that was a bit of a risk, but now you're going to send it with potentially only 300 men untrained, as we've now seen, with no idea what they're doing or what they're up against. And you're sending your ruler on that ship, which might just combust at any moment. So... Might have new men more. And in the terms of the size of medieval armies, right, I would, I think, the very bare minimum for this expeditionary kind of force would be 5,000. And I'm not kidding. And like a full-size army would be minimum 10,000, 20,000 is where you get to the... All right, now you're at it. We don't know how many orcs there are. You've no idea the size of the force you're going against. Absolutely right. Yep, this is... Because this is not billed as a recon team. We're going to do some reconnaissance and scouting. We'll bring some ships over. They'll disperse. We'll come pick them up in three months or whatever after they give a look around. They're supposed to blend in and lay low. No, this is like a fighting... This is cavalry. And also, right, it would not be out of the ordinary for the Orcs army to be in numbers of 100,000 strong. They have no idea... They have no clue. No idea. Imagine going to war against a foe that could be anywhere from 100 men to 100,000. You have no clue. Because remember, it's not even the numbers of the Orcs. It's the existence of the Orcs that is alleged. Yeah, it's not even the numbers, you're right. They have no proof of anything. The opening monologue in episode one, Galadriel tells us that Sauron is there and he's been biding his time and he's been gathering his forces. And like she knows... Well, the monologue would have us believe she knows that there are walks and there are a lot of them and they've been gathering their forces for hundreds, if not thousands of years. So she's the one advising the queen to go to Númenor. She's the only person who can realistically say this is the kind of force we might expect to come up against. Like she's the only one who has any foreknowledge of this at all. She's apparently fine with them sending 300 men and a queen to go and meet potentially thousands of Orcs, which... I mean that bit makes sense for Galadriel because at the start of episode one she was going to take on the same amount of people with like seven elves. So this is a step up for her. I was about to say, you know for a fact that she would. She would annihilate all of Mordor's forces just to honor her. Yeah. I'm actually half expecting it to quell Mount Doom with the sheer coldness of it. She'll throw a sword into Mount Doom but that'll be the arc. She'll be like, I'm a warrior but I will sacrifice my warriorness. Then she looks at the screen and she goes, that's why you don't see me doing it in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. And then I did it to close Mount Doom forever but then it woke back up I guess at some point. I don't know, shut up, leave me alone, I'm awesome. That'll be the end. And yeah, as everyone keeps saying, it's just like there's a little bit of a horse problem. If you want us to believe that you've got 300 men on there on those three ships like, okay, how are you getting 300 horses across there? Yeah, like 300 men is a stretch, 300 horses is like piss off, not a chance. If you've got, you've had to crane the horses onto the ship. Are there cranes on the other side to get them off? Yes. They just chuck them. Cranes, they just chuck away. They make a slide or something. A catapult for the horse. Well, it's catapult. Why not? Well, I can't believe they put horses on cranes. I thought it was flying when I first saw it. I'm like, what the fuck is that horse? I noticed a little roach. Thirsting, flashing to my mind was Jurassic Park when they feed the cow to the raptors. So, yeah, the official word is that Elendil did approve of Isildur coming onto these ships. And so everyone's like, wow, that is an episode. And then he's like, no, I earned it. And if anyone, this is where I mean, like if you're just one of these guys who's on this ship and you go, oh, how did he earn it? What did he do? Like, is there been a fight or something? What's going on? He'll go, well, apparently someone was fishing and the ship's exploded and he almost died, but Isildur jumped in the water and saved him. And you just be like, what? What do you mean? So that's all we have to do. Oh, well, not even that. Just what an absurd scenario. Who blew these things up? And why to go a brigand? Oh, okay, whatever. Okay, all right. And Elendil knows he did all this. It's like, that's what he told him. Right. And if it is such a prestigious act to be worthy of like a reward like this of a military position, why do they put him as the stable hand, which seems to be universally renowned as sort of the insulting position? It's weird because it shouldn't be. Oh, yeah, you're stable hand. It's weird because that shouldn't be. It's annoying that they would all be like, hey, you're on a loser role. It's like a role that's necessary to that. Yeah, I don't say stable hand. And he ends up being in the Queen's Honor Guard next episode. Yep, yep. You're okay. Okay, they don't care. Stable hand could be an incredibly important position. He could be the one who is in charge of the horse crane or the horse slidler. He's the one who has to put it up. So actually an honorable position for him to be in because without him, they're not getting those animals off the ship. Yeah, would the horse catapult even be built without him? I don't think so. Oh, good point. And how crap does the armor look? It looks so shit, Shad. And the helmet's not master outfits. The outfits are just... It's so crap. It's so crap. Unbelievably so. And what is it made out of like foam paper? I really don't like a lead deal specifically. And the people posted pictures of comparing the way he looks here and how he looks in the prologue of Lord of the Rings. It's like, it's fucking... Night and day doesn't cover it. Yeah. It's the sun versus the abyss. It's like, why? Oh. The creators, honestly, I think it's awesome. The creators are like, look at our great job we did, guys. Can none of you even see? Are you all blind? The answer is yes. I could help you out on that one. And speaking of Arba, guess who has theirs back somehow? The magic of everything. I don't know. Who could it be? Ladriel. Oh, wow, you found it. Oh, my God. You hit it, finally washed up on shore somehow. He washed up on the shore. Sorry. The only explanation. The only explanation, too. The Numenoreans who hate elves had a specifically set of elven armor, a set aside that's perfectly tailored to her size and proportions that happens to also have the symbol of the guy who made the Silmarils on it, the person that she hates. But okay, sure. Well, someone just said that's different armor. It's like, we weren't actually suggesting that her real similar armor washed up on shore. Trust me, that's not what we're suggesting. Obviously, it's got made. It's just why, why in the world would this have been made? And I just, the Smiths like her enough, even though the Smiths are all the people that were at the Elves of Horrible parade festival, whatever the fuck, get together. It's just funny. How could one could have made it? Yeah, Halbrand did it in a couple of hours, probably. So the thing is, clearly, no one would have, they hate elves. They wouldn't make elven armor, so they must have had it just lying around. And it's like, okay, then why are they keeping elving armor and if they hate it so much? Well, what she did was Galadriel said, I need some armor. And they're like, okay, fine. And that was that. They said, why can't you make it yourself? And she says, because I cannot. Well, because that's a lowly position that she wouldn't want to associate with. Yeah, the fucking queen gave her some bullshit or whatever. They're like to make her armor. They gave her the normal armor, and then she's like, I would like not to wear paper, please. And then they're like, okay, we'll give you steel, I guess, if this is weirdo. She would have to very accurately convey what her armor looked like to these guys. And they're like, so do you want this random male to be sticking out between the shoulder and the chest piece? And she's like, oh, absolutely. It looks cool, right? Absolutely. It's like this is part of its design. The metal hair, this armor hair. Oh, do you think it's what they're going for? Or are you just meaning? I don't know. I really don't. Is it the third guy with the best expression? One of them, like everyone's impressed and amazed. I know. One guy, what she walked past, he does not give a damn that she's even there at all. He just looks so bored. And they've got it, the angle of the sun hitting them at the same time as they're looking, like as if she's giving off the light. It's like, why? This is so... Also, the bridge bridge is pretty bad here, I will say. The show loves Galadriel so much, and they're having it like everyone is just like getting mesmerized. Wow, look at her. It's amazing. It's come off incredible. She just makes me hate her more. Yeah. It's someone indistinguishable from humans unless you can see her ears. Pretty much, yeah. Especially because she's tiny. It's like she probably passed for like a... Look, that guy there in the back, the tallest one. He does not care at all. He's like, what is this? Is this the bitch that's going to get us killed? It is, isn't it? This is her. Okay, all right. And so, after nearly six hours of breaking down more rings of power at the point where they're leaving the harbor to go to war from Numanor, which you'd be forgiven for thinking, that's what was happening at the end of the last episode. But nope. But Halbrand's going with... Yeah. So that took an episode. Halbrand was given specifically different colored armor because of great reasons. He's given man armor, okay? Main character armor. Her armor doesn't look terrible, at least. Oh, it still looks pretty bad. Not as bad as the white one. You're right. It's so... It's compared to them. This shit is fire compared to them. Yeah, in comparison. Awful, awful. They have a scale obsession, I think. They do. The scale mail is awful. Which is like, okay, it's fine, but take it easy. Not everything has to be... You can have it, but it doesn't have to be everything. Well, they're so obsessed with the scale that they even have it printed on the queen's undershirt. Yeah, that was... That's awkward. It couldn't have just been clothed. Just have it be a clothed shirt. Do they expect her to actually go into combat? They could fucking calm down. Just give her a nice, regal-looking, bright, a new menor color. The blue shirt underneath it all. Something. It'd be fine. Some sort of padded, like in, you know, arming doublet underneath. Problem solved. I'd say do they actually expect her to go into combat? I mean, she is about to be attacked by a volcano, so anything could happen. They really need to do that. I'll do the paper problem is gonna be really bad against a volcano. She attacks, works, and kills a bunch of them. I was ready for it. Yes. Oh, yeah. I thought she was gonna lead the army when they charged the village. Yeah, it... Because you know... You know, they wanted... That episode is so bad. This episode was so bad. It's all so bad. Like, they're still amazed. Oh, she's shaking his hand. Yeah, we're gonna do it, guys. Yeah, let's go save the world. And in that shot, you got to see kind of all the guys on board and the size of the ship. And it's like, is there what, maybe 20 men? I know, right? And it's like so 80 or below, I guess. Boats and stoes, boats and stoes. At this point to get everybody in, they'd have to have, like, the lifeboats on the side just row it along with them, or they trade out who's in those every so often because they just don't have a room. They're probably the column window seats. The people underneath would have to be stacked side by side, like the slave ships of, you know... Oh, yeah. Hardies. There might be some mariners in the chat who'll disagree with me, but I'm sort of questioning the wisdom about trying to sail your way out of an enclosed harbor. You got to be very skilled. Because that thought came to my mind as well. Where's the wind coming from? They're backed up high on the walls behind them. There isn't going to be wind in the harbor. They've got a really big fan. That's why the others can built like that. A really big fan. They've got the entire town together and blow. That's why they needed to get the approval of the people to go to war because they need the blow power of... I'm just thinking of, you go in and out of these arches every time a ship has to come and go from the harbor, which is like amazing defensively. But you think the 99.999% of the time we're not under siege, man, this is going to be... How many boats have we ruined? Just bumping into the sides of the canyon and hitting the bridges. I guess they're really good at it, supposedly. So... That's cool. Yeah, couple. Yeah, rowing would have been the way that they did it. Also, like, you saw the bridge in perspective before. And I was like, those boats even get to fit through those arches because barely... You saw them go in originally when they entered. They came in and they were lowering the sails as they did it, but it's almost like the sails are designed with the bridge in mind. Because they have the Tism sails where they're sort of in like these two sections like that. So in their curve. So that's supposed to fit, I think, in kind of inside neat... That's bizarre. Because also on the size of ships, these are pretty small. You're telling us our Numenorans have no bigger ships than these and it's because they just... So they can't get out of the third biggest. Oh, we can't fit it through the bridge. Yeah. They're just gonna trap it in the harbor forever. They built the bridge before they remembered to get the boats out of the harbor. So they're just there now. They're just party barges. They just got converted into restaurants and things or something. Just to get from one side of the harbor to the other. They can never leave. That's episode five. Only three left. What a man. Really good. Really good. I mean, this show is so bad. Like going through it again. We found a lot of stuff in addition to all the things I thought was bad in this episode. It just gets worse. This is incredible. Yeah, pretty remarkable. Yeah. And it is pretty good work on their part because it's so little happen. It's just like, wow, you've got millions of issues and you don't even make much of anything take place. Not the same thing I would say for the next episode, of course. It's really interesting to summarize the first five hours of the show versus the sixth hour because you'd be like, wait, what? It's like, yeah, that's that's what happened. But yeah, since we're at the six hours, we figure that we will now move into super chats and then end the stream at a quote unquote reasonable time and instead pick up coverage of the next episode as early as tomorrow. Crazy kids and chat since we're trying to get this all done in one but failed probably, which I suppose is a good thing to a lot of people anyway. But I will say since we're at the sort of like the halfway mark or not halfway, but we're at a break part of sorts that I would offer any of the guests if they wish to leave at this point because you have been here for good six hours. Reasonable if you need to, you know, do life things completely up to you. And I will be one of those people. Unfortunately, I've been a duck out, guys, and it has been tremendously fun. No problemo at all. Thank you so much for hanging out. I'm hanging out good, sir, before you leave. Hell, everybody, where they can find you and what you're up to. Well, well, well, I'm up to something pretty cool at the moment, guys. I got a graphic novel that's available if anyone's wanting to check that out. You know, I think I really enjoy it. It's a graphic. I don't know. I've loved comic books my whole life. And so having, you know, being part of making one is pretty awesome. And also making one that's just top tier. Like if you see some of the art that Marvel and DC are doing, it's such garbage. There's been people sharing the art of a recent Robin. Robin, you know, Batman Robin comic. It is unbelievable cringe. And then I get to look at this art by that Mike has done for me in this graphic novel. It's like, holy crap. It's so cool. So it's pretty cool. If you throw me a link, I can get it in the description. Yeah. Goes back up. Absolutely. So yeah, check that out if everyone interested, that we're selling the hard cover for the price of a soft cover. So it's a good deal. But if you're wanting as well, you can get something special and get the leather bound. I'm doing leather bound for the graphic novel and the second edition version of the novel as well. And they are all good. Beautiful. And then of course you've got Night's Watch, right? Yeah. Night's Watch is just exploding. It's going great. And we're doing in-depth reviews and everything. So you can check me out there. And of course, Shadiversity looking at all the medieval stuff. And so I've already reviewed the weapons and armor and rings of power and the gradual fight scene. Oh, it's so bad. We've been. It's fun to review. We've been, that's not the word, is it? I was about to say spoiled with bad content. It's more so we've been attacked with bad content. I don't know. Is there anything blighted, cursed? Blighted maybe, yeah. Isolated. Subjected to. But hey, we're nearing the end. There's a light at the end of this tunnel in terms of She-Hulk and rings of power coming to an end. And once House of Dragon ends as well, it'll just be Andor who's chilling out on his own. That's what's going to happen eventually. Oh yeah. I might need to take a break after rings of power and House of Dragon. It's been full on. And hey, it's good. I'm not complaining. But oh, I need to take a break. I think afterwards. Yeah, we've doubled up. But you've had episodes. We're going to have to take a week off here and there. What is this time of the year? It's going to happen. But yeah, man, thank you so much for joining us. Legendary as always. And if I don't catch you on tomorrow's one, I will obviously see you with Gary for House of the Dragon. All right, guys. This has been awesome. I'll catch up. See you, dude. You're catching up. Bye-bye. Well, well. I assume a little too soon, you're going to be hanging out with the whole thing, I think, right? Is that what you said? Yeah. Unlike Chad, I don't have a life. So yes. No, I don't. Unless I'm intruding on your private chat. I'm absolutely not. Well, I mean, several of these may very well be to you. Who knows? And Disbrew, how are you doing? Yeah. I need to head out because if I'm back here again tomorrow, then I've got a video to start and finish. Sorry for cursing you in such a way, but I very much appreciate your company. It's been great. I did enjoy the story. Like, this episode will be really fast. We'll fly through this one and get straight to the big one. It's like, wow, okay. I never thought six hours on that episode. It just takes a little bit longer. But yeah, before you go, of course, since you're a brand new guest, nobody even knows what's going on here in the Leaf. I'll tell everybody about what it is you get up to. Disbrew on YouTube. I tend to focus. Like, I kind of do think it's sort of spoiled by bad content because I think bad ones make the best reviews and the best videos. And I think they're by far the most interesting to talk about. You get something that's really good. And I'm like, yeah, okay, that's good. I think you should watch it. I don't want to spoil it for you though. So that's not really what you can talk about. So on live streams, I think good content makes better live streams because everyone talk about it. You know what it's there. But for videos, I would rather just rip something apart and when it comes to that, She-Hulk, especially, I've had some of the most fun times making videos for She-Hulk. Oh yeah, dude. It's rapid fire disaster. Like they fit more into three minutes of the start than last episode. Was it safe to say your life has probably been strange for the past, let's say, month or two-ish because your name has come up a lot more than usual for me than it has ever before. And it's like you've got all these TV shows to cover at once. And I keep seeing you on loads of different streams. Do you happen to go outside and breathe oxygen or is that not a thing? Not the last couple of months. Oxygen is indoors, Mahler. Checkmate. Prove it. Yeah, gotcha. But yeah, my channel has exploded. I think in February, I had 2.8k subs and now I'm at like 87. Excellent job, man. I have no idea what's been happening. It's kind of been a roller... Well, not a rollercoaster ride because it's just been an insane upward thing. But yeah, all these streams that I used to just watch, I've been on. Like Friday Night Titans, I've watched for years. And it's been kind of a surreal journey, especially last few months. Yeah, man. That's one of the things that's really cool about Rings of Power, She-Hulking, and the others coming out is that a bunch of new creators can now come out as a result of being passionate enough to sort of be like, okay, this is shit, by the way. I'd like to talk about why. Well, it's one of the opportunities you get with all this sort of stuff. But yeah, it's... I only started reviewing stuff because I was really into Wheel of Time. I've read the books over like decades, and Amazon came along and just annihilated that. And so that's sort of everything else. Yes, I genuinely think that was a trial run for this. A lot of the marketing was the same. A lot of the kind of the mystery box. Oh, guess who's the dragon? Guess who's Sauron? Have been the same way through. I think they did see that as their little mini project. Well, now here you are reviewing incredible shows every night, every day, even possibly. Yeah, like I said, I don't know whether to apologize or whatnot, but it'll be lovely to see you tomorrow as well to talk about the other episode. Oh yeah, I will definitely be back. Hey, anything that gets me to see Galadriel get hit by a fiery cloud of ash from a volcano? Well, that wouldn't happen. That's absurd. Why would that happen? That would never happen. That would be where would that come from? They wouldn't just invent a volcano to do that. That'd be crazy. Can you imagine, though, if they did just... They led everyone on? Oh, no, we're doing this in five seasons and then just end it halfway through the first... That's how you get in. This was the plan from the start. Yeah, this was the story we wanted to tell, yeah. So that would be one hell of a twist. We call it subversive. A lot of you guys really liked that and we experimented with it. What are you trying to get? I mean, if they pulled that on this one, I think that people would genuinely cheer. So it might be the first one that people actually like. Well, I mean, if we're being completely honest, if it was announced tomorrow, no more episodes are coming out, all the reactions be from us. Certainly from us a lot would be like, okay. All right, then. Yeah, that's awesome. Nothing been heard, nothing gained. Yeah, like, okay. And this will be remembered by no one. What a shame. Bye. That's my favorite thing about it. It is the case of at this point, you're just kind of seeing how much money they're willing to throw away knowingly. Because at first, like a billion dollars, we could make something amazing. But then the reception that this has got and what they've ended up with, they now know what they're going to get for future seasons. And I don't see how they can turn this around unless they just get rid of so many of the people that made it. And so it's going to be how much money, especially how much good money they're willing to burn. Just keeps going and going and going. Yeah, because Wheel of Time's got season three. And season two isn't even out. And I think they're doing the same thing with that. So they're not beyond just throwing away piles of cash. How much, can they keep that going forever, Wheel of Time? Have they gone up to adapt or they can just keep going? There's so many books. Yeah, they could do it for like 14 seasons if they wanted to. Sorry, Wheel of Time fan. Yeah, well, the first season, because in this they were like, oh, well, you know, we've chosen something where we think we're just filling in the gaps. But Wheel of Time is literally specifically written down word for word, action for action. And they, after the episode two, didn't entirely different thing. Not unrelated to the books in every single way, changed the magic system, changed everything about it. So the whole idea that, oh no, if this was detailed down in a book somewhere at Holkins, they would have followed it. No, no way. Well, good luck, of course, with that as well. Covering season three of Wheel of Time. Because you said you got started with Wheel of Time, right? So I imagine that you'll definitely be covering that. Oh yeah, I'm not. I, like, even if what, if the only person that sees those videos is me, I'm still gonna do them. That's, I am heavily into Wheel of Time. Oh yeah, I assume the same as for Rings of Power. We've got five years of that, at least. It could be a gap, yeah, who knows. Well, yeah, if they, well, if considering they're moving countries now and the studio isn't built, it's probably gonna be a two-year gap between seasons. So this could go on for 10 years. Oh. 10 years of Rings of Power. 10 years until we're allowed to let it be forgotten. Imagine that, chat. It's 2032 and the season, the series finale for the Rings of Power is crawling out of Joseph Fritzel's basement, sort of wondering where the beatings have gone and why they've stopped. Oh, that's gonna be a really strange experience. We're all gonna be, like, old men by then in 10 years. Finally, we put Rings of Power to rest. At that point, there's, like, 30 viewers and 26 of them are reviewing it negatively. That's probably She-Hawks' current situation. Yeah, I think so. I get that impression. But I do like this, that one Twitter account for She-Hawks. It's just, like, the most rabid defender. Oh, yeah. Dude, deep down. Like, there's just one person holding the line. They've put out some hyper cringe, haven't they? They're desperate. Oh, what an account. Good luck to them, I guess, that if you want to revolve your personality around just the She-Hulk of all things, you go right ahead. All the things to defend. That's where you've pitched your tent. That's the hill you're dying on is She-Hulk. Priorities. Yeah, man. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Six hours, six hours is still a long time. It's not 12, but normal shows actually do run. I don't know if you've heard about this. There are some podcasts that go for an hour. You hear about this? It's a myth as far as I'm concerned. They exist. They whisper on the wind. I can't imagine that. Only podcasting for an hour. Yeah, why would you have a podcast that's just intro? What's the point? That's our intro, yeah. Seems weird. I didn't cover anything. Well, yeah, so thank you very much. And I suppose we shall see you tomorrow. Ah, yeah. Pleasure to be on. Cheers for inviting me. Thank you so much. Thank you for watching. Yeah. Toodless. Catch you, dude. Which leaves. Oh, go ahead. I will say I'm drawing and I drew over my sketching layer. I drew it on the same layer. So all that work is gone. I have to redo it. I'm sorry. I'm feeling pretty sad about it. I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, I'm not happy about that. Well, you learned something new, which is, I don't know, don't have a lapse that causes you to do that. So there's not really anything I can do to account for that. Yeah. What was the lesson here? You just have to be angry. The lesson is just, yeah, a little bit, because it's kind of nothing. It's like, you got to do it again. Yes. Could you have learned from it? Not really. It's kind of worthless. So I mean, I guess I got, because as Chat may have, because it hasn't been acknowledged yet, cassowary for Halloween. Gary. That's, that's the, that's the, yeah. I see a little platoon. You don't have anything scary. Where's your little horns or something? That's what you got to do. Oh, yeah. I've been meaning to actually ask the guy who does the channel art. I need to actually, yeah, get him to put some horns on me or something. You've got plenty of time. So it's not, not a. You just started October is true. It is, yeah. I know. We take it very seriously here at EFAT. It's very important. Halloween is a thing to be taken seriously. It's a very fun festival. But the Valentine I ask him about time it's done. It could well be Halloween itself. And then what I've got like two days to use it. So no, I should actually get on that. And next year. Yeah. True. It will be reused. We get mileage out of ours. That's for sure. A pumpkin head or something. Which people would know from seeing our avatars on Karen EFAT movies, which is out by the way, who did not know it released today before the stream. And you'll be getting an EFAT movies per week until the final week of Halloween. We get to think final destiny. Be excited because you should because if it's out, that means that things went well because Final Destination 2 is still getting pushed back with copyrights and nightmare. The latest one was weird. It didn't get clipped for like two days. And the message I got was it has been manually reviewed and they have found a six second clip that is like enough to block it worldwide. And I was just like, okay, you seem a little obsessed at this point. So yeah, for anybody who sees maybe a little bit of an obsessive protection of copyright on any of these films, that's why. But hopefully. Anyway, I'm going to start reading these super chats then. Well, all right. All right, the first one of the night is, I love you all. This is a threat. All right. I love you. I love you. And you got like a knife in his hand. Yeah. Gladriel told me she loved me. I feel like that would be a threat. Dark comedy idea. The vegan cannibal. He only eats vegetables. Oh no. I get it. He only eats vegans. No, vegetables. A vegan cannibal only eats vegans. Vegan cannibal only eats vegetables, as they said. That wouldn't be very sporting. No, because carrots can't run away. Yeah, I suppose it's no less sporting than just plants eating. Invite random film talk. I'm not sure who that is. But who knows? Maybe one day. Oh, I gotta take a look. Fuck Mary kill Angel season four phase four and Jaws four. I mean, we got to kill phase four. The worst one. Okay. And that's how this usually makes some sense. Out of all three, I guess we'll keep still season four. There's some stuff in it. That's actually pretty good for season five. All right. Yeah, that's kind of the nature of it. You can't have season five without season four. So I guess Jaws four will be the one that gets fucked. I have no idea what that means, but there you go. Man, at the time when I was watching that, I really didn't see how it could be saved. I really didn't. I thought it was doomed. No one can. So like what happened to Karen's kids? No parents, no uncle, no other relatives? The film just forgets they exist. No one doesn't care about them. They don't matter. It's not a very good movie. You could say that. I haven't seen it by the way. I haven't seen it yet. I just woke up and pretty much did this. I haven't seen it either, yeah. I'm going to watch it while I'm at dinner. I think the people were pretty happy with it, as was I. It was a fun one. The land it came out well. It was a fun movie. Man, I learned a lot. I think that we may not have even watched it. Oh, yeah. It's basically, yeah, just on a whim from Jay Longbone. Loads of appreciation for Jay Longbone, because it's in the video where she suggests it and we all go, yeah, sure, okay. Never would have happened. Simply struck gold. Have a nice general conference, Shad? Hope he did, or whatever. I don't know. All right. Shad, imagine when training in episode five, she said, control is more important than strength. A hard strike means nothing if it can't hit. It took me two minutes. I would be stronger than... Like discounting arms when it comes to fighting, yes. Her arms are pretty overrated. You see, Sarn would have paid attention to his arms in that fight. I mean, yeah. The top comment on the Karen, you've probably was right now, by the way, is that extended comment, trying to figure out how much effort Karen would have gone to to get confederate soap. Well, it probably isn't easily stumbled across, is it? No, it's just funny. You specifically have to, yeah. Well, when she goes on Amazon, it's like soap. Oh, wait, sorry, confederate soap. That's her. Let me go to Amazon and look that up. Confed soap. And now you're on a watch list. Yeah. Yeah, it's just normal soap. It's as if the word confederate was never involved. I'll put confederate flag soap. And if you want to know the context to this, you can go watch the Karen EFAT movies. Trust me, I'll love it. What's the Chinese version of Amazon called this? Is it Alibaba? I think we'll use that once. You can find all kinds of weird stuff on there. Probably on there, then. Or eBay. Which? Ligatory She-Hulk's Feet Super Chat. Yum. All right. To you, I suppose. She has large green feet. That is true. Hey, Molly, did you like Matosis's God of War 4 video? I think I did when it came out, yeah. I can't remember if I agree with everything on. I feel like I often disagree a lot on... I feel like that people are way too harsh to the mechanics in that game, but especially when comparing it to the original trilogy as if there are no problems with the original trilogy's ones for the design choices they have made. The help maybe explain what I'm trying to say is that people highlight a lot of restrictions that happen as a result of the choices they made in God of War 4 as if that's not the case for literally every mechanical system that whenever you choose to do anything that you've given yourself things that are difficult to overcome. One of the most common things that everything has to face when it's like an action game of third-person nature of some kind is camera. Camera's like one of the first main ones that fucking gets in the way. I already played three quarters right now of God of War 1. The camera's been an asshole in almost the whole game. And it was different in small ways, but sometimes in ways that we really didn't need to be, like where they chose to aim it. Camera's difficult. I think Matthew Matosis talked about it in his most recent video about context sensitive buttons that one of the difficulties of transitioning from a 2D to 3D game is that just by virtue of how much complexity that adds, it just makes things more challenging. And one of them is cameras get more difficult in 3D because like in a 2D space, it's always from the side. Wow. Generally, it's from the side or it's from the top with a really clear view of what's in front of you. You can see clearly what's in front of you and behind of you when there's no input to control the camera. It's always going to show you everything that you need to see or the mechanics will at the very least be built around this limited space. But then when you throw the camera in, it's like, oh, well, I guess the challenge with something like God of War is that I haven't played enough of four, but I imagine that the old games used the face buttons for combos, whereas the new game, it's kind of hard to have face buttons serve as like the way to do combos and attacks because the finger you need to use the face buttons is always going to be the same one that you use to control the camera. And so like any point where you need to move the camera is a moment when you're not fully in control of attacks. That's the reality though, right? That's almost the binary. Either the game has control of the camera and so you can focus on fighting, but that means the camera doesn't always go where you would personally choose for it to go or you can give the player full control, but then they need a third finger or a third. Well, or you just have to account for that. You just have to account for it. It's the reason why in the PS3 360 generation the triggers became way more prominent in games. Yeah, yeah, because like a shooter does that, right? You move, you aim your camera. Shooter. And then you have your attack buttons of most of the time, shoulder. Yeah, exactly. Whereas, because I mean, there was a trend, you know, use Ratchet and Clank as an example. I remember in the old games, you pressed the circle button to shoot, but then Deadlock changed it to, you can use circle, but you also can use the shoulder buttons. And obviously the reason why they did that is because that game was combat heavy and it just made more sense to use the shoulder buttons and it's just like the more that games move towards that combat heavy focus. Because you see an older, like Crash Bandicoot has a fixed camera. You don't control the camera. It does the fixed camera in the same way that 2D platformers do essentially the difficulty is that in a 3D space, judging depth is tricky. Right, yeah. Because it's kind of why you need a lot of visual cues. That's why Crash 4 had like a highlighted circle beneath you so that there was like absolutely no confusion as to where you are. But the fact that it even needs that kind of says something about navigating a 3D space. It was a part that... Think of just, I'll remove most of the context, try and make it as simple as possible because it would be so much easier if I could draw it. But I think it's just four straight platforms that go one in front of another in front of another in front of another and you just have to jump across them. And the camera is behind Kratos, obviously. And as you move across them, it follows him. It's exactly, let's say, three meters behind him. And it just follows him across all of them easy, but this is God of War 1 now. And then you need to go back. And so they haven't made it so the camera does like a 360 or 180 flip so that now it's behind you on the other side so you can jump. It just backs up as you head toward the camera. You understand what I mean? Yeah, I know what you mean. I fucking hate that. I absolutely hate it. Yeah, that sucks. There's not enough space. I can't feel in control of the platforms at all. I just have to kind of hope and pray that I am remembering it right. Well, it's one of the challenges of making games. How much control should be afforded to the player versus how much should be entirely in the hands of the developer in terms of what you can see or do? They'll have several segments where they go bird's eye and I think they just want to not go bird's eye because it's not as, dare I say, cinematic. It's more gamey. There might be a few factors, cinematic resources, maybe bird's eye is a bit too intensive because it's too much that you can see. It could be the reason why God of War would tuck the camera in so close is probably because they wanted to pump the visuals up. Yeah, I'm almost saying that is a huge motivation for it. But that's, I guess, what I mean. I just consider it a really dull take to be like, because of the fact you have to control the camera, it means that you could split focus on the camera and attacks and that's what ruins the whole system for God of War 4 and it's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a little bit more complicated than that, right? Well, there are benefits, too. Something that's different. Yeah, that's the benefit of every presentation. Exactly. And that's what I was trying to say is that any mechanical system you choose, there are going to be drawbacks and points of praise for why they chose and how well they executed. But yeah, the first three, because there was another one where the camera was set to think of a map that is a half a donut and you are on the left edge, enemy on the right edge and you're coming to meet in the center. But wherever you are, the camera will horizontally have you as you're moving through the donut aimed, let's say always aimed with a donut would have been split. This is, I feel like this is going to be so hard to understand because... Yeah, I don't think I follow. Donut. You got that, right? Ring donut. Ring donut. Think of that as a map. So all of that is walk on a ball. Now it's a 2D space. Think of it that way. You can't go in the middle. Okay, Captain. Yeah, but you can go in a big circle. Now cut horizontally in half and remove the top half. Now you got it like a U, right? Okay, yeah. A U spawn at the top of the left side. Enemy spawns at the top of the right side. All right. The camera, think of the object of the camera existing on the bottom end of the donut, but it points up to where the donut would have been cut in half. But it sits on its y-axis, sorry, x-axis to wherever you are. Which one is x? X is a cross. Okay. It sits in, it'll always be lined up to where you are at the time. And so hopefully that translates. If you come down to the center of that half donut as the character and the enemy is coming down also, he might just be off. I can't see him necessarily because the camera isn't zoomed out enough. It's too close to me and he's just outside of it. And so he might have a big ranged attack and it just hits me off camera. And I'm just like, oh, well, great. And it's like, yeah, well, it's your mistake for not, you know, and then they do the thing. This thing that I fucking despise. Oh, great. The focus system doesn't work on this enemy. Yeah, well, don't use it. Yeah. Like if, um, if the game glitches and like, you know, guns just don't work on one random enemy, you have to use grenades instead in this moment because the boss is glitched and the response is just, yeah, don't use a gun. Easy. And it's like, what if I don't have grenades at that point in the game? It's like, yeah, well, what if I rely on focus for my combat and it's like, and it's supposed to work? It's like, yeah, well. Can't really complain about it. That's the other thing. I wish people would just be more willing to be like, yep, that's not a good thing. But that's there. Unfortunate. We can get people really defensive. Like, nah, or offensive. Like a game discussion. Maybe we'll have some more of them as, uh, once Callisto protocol on the Dead Space remake come out or the Resonable 4 remake. Resonable 4 remake is next. That space was all right considering, um, it was so it was kind of close on over your shoulder. If it's close and over your shoulder, then it's harder to have it be Tizmy. Uh, but yeah, the further away you get from a character, then that's where he starts to have the problems more and more. What do you mean? Also be argued, though, that the further you get away, the more clarity you have in general. Oh yeah, that's what part I'm confused. Funnily enough, I mod my Dead Space to push the camera away for the back. So I don't know what you mean. Um, if your camera is in terms of like clipping against environments and stuff, the closer that your camera is to like a first person view, the less likely it will be that you're going to get clipping issues because it's closer into where your character is. But as you pull the camera back, there's more and more opportunities. It increases the distance where obstacles can exist between the character and your camera. Um, that's one aspect. Yeah, but obviously there's the whole idea is it gives you a shit ton of benefits by having the camera for the back. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and then obviously you'd have like adaptive cameras that move with the location or they'll blur out the walls that you end up putting between you and the camera that you can still see you. That is something that happens in games. One thing I've never understood. Mario put silhouettes on walls that were between you and the camera just to let you know where your character is. And it's like, I wish all games had that at the lowest level. Mario's been doing that for ages. Yeah, Mario's been doing that for a long time. I'm not expecting everybody to be able to do the perfect system ever, but can you at least do that? Just that instead of the Dark Souls one where the camera shoves itself up right in between your ass and the wall and just goes It's just like, yeah, that's great. That's real great. I'm glad. I wonder if it is just a matter of, um, because I'm pretty sure everybody knows this, but like Super Mario 64's development went like this. They spent a year figuring out how to make Mario fun to control in 3D. Then they started building levels. I don't know how many games are being made where you are like fundamentally working on like that core and trying to streamline it, trying to figure it out and basically make it like as good as it can possibly be. And then from there, you start building content. I'm not sure if they still do that for like the new Mario games. Maybe not, but I can imagine like in Odyssey that they spent a long time just making Mario fun to control and figuring out how to make sure that he could interact with the space and then, you know, start building levels and start figuring out what you need to do. Not all geometry is made the same, Morley. Good thing I didn't say that it was. I remember he specifically said that all geometry was the same. A big bit, Morley, really bungled that one. You shouldn't have said that. I regret saying that. I held my tongue because I knew that someone in chat would point out how stupid that was that luckily they did. And I can now say I'm sorry for saying all geometry is made the same. That was my bad. Irax. Hello. As Little Platoon read, the 1967 essay by Roland Barthas called The Death of the Author. I have, yes, I believe, I haven't read it for a long time, but I have read it before. Are we at the death of the author part of the evening? Well, no, this is, I'm guessing they're just curious to ask you that anyway, because of the... Yeah. No, I was genuinely, I was apologised that I was basically, I didn't paste myself properly last time, so I was about a bottle of whiskey in by the time we got to Death of the Author. I was just kind of interested in sort of your guys take on how strictly you apply that term. Yeah, we're absolute on it. Extremists, we're crazy people, but most people, I'd say, push it to like 90%. They'll let slip in, I think the most valued, most intelligent, most in touch artists that have the best takes, they'll be like, no, their take is gold, and they should be considered like almost canon. And then you have people, like I said, who are like Twin Perfect, who are like just absolute, whatever artist says, whatever about their work, that is the truth, which is... And that is, that's just not true. Nobody holds that perspective. To be fair, he might. He actually like, he might be insane enough to... No, I don't believe it. Well, so, but... I don't believe... How do you deal with a person who will bite those bullets without realizing what they mean? Because all you need to do is just find the one example where they'll change their mind. Well, we did with the George Lucas one, and then he like went back on it in his discord. He was like, no, that's a stupid example now. And it's like, oh, okay. I guess it's just that there will always... I think that you'll always believe... It's kind of like the same as when somebody says, no, there's no such thing as good or bad, like, and then they'll always default, like you default to it at some stage, because everybody to some extent believes in death of the author. I don't know what it means to engage with... Because if you don't, then what is the point of even watching the media? Just watch the interviews or the things where the author explains what it's about, and then you got it. Because when you say it's zero percent, like a hundred percent, or zero percent death of the author, it's like, what is the point of the work? Just ask the author what they think about any given topic. Like, and then that's it. You got it. And I wouldn't look to hurt anyone's feelings, but I think if you really dug on this, like dug deep on this concept, you can't choose anything other than zero or 100. Pretty much. I don't know what the middle ground looks like, really. No, I don't. Because if the breach is something they say casually, versus something that is in the book, those two things are always going to be, like, what is the halfway point of those? A leaflet that comes with the book, maybe? It's like, is that can it? See, well, I know that there's no definitive middle point. My instinct is to go for middle point, though, with anything like death of the author, because I know it's a wishy-washy liberal position to take, but I have to have a couple of those. But my fear with anything to do with death of the author is, you know, this comes from a particular school. It's actually born of critical theory, death of the author. I mean, it comes from Bartow in the 60s, is developed as a concept, as we now know it today, by I think directly by Foucault and by Derrida as well, who has quite a lot to say on death of the author. You can trace it, it's roots back to, it goes back to sort of cancer aesthetics, but Oscar Wilde sort of popularizes it in the 1800s, because it's an outgrowth, at least as I understand it anyway, death of the author is this outgrowth of this concept of aesthetic autonomism. And that's the idea, as Oscar Wilde put it, and he put it like this for legal reasons, that you cannot judge the author of a work by the moral content of that work. In other words, that's sort of the groundwork that separates out moral content of work from moral intent of author. Oscar Wilde sort of does this for quite practical or pragmatic reasons, because he had to do it to try and stave off lawsuits. But it's developed sort of in the 60s, and my issue with it taken to literally, or taken to a great extent is that I'd argue that's sort of where we are at the moment, that the problem we have with so much art at the moment is precisely that. We have abandoned any conception of authorial intent. Rings of Power is quite a good example of this. I mean, if you were to say, well, Tolkien quite clearly said and thought and believed this about the world, and this quite clearly impacts how he writes, and therefore the moral underpinning of the Lord of the Rings, you would then turn to Rings of Power and you'd say, well, that's quite clearly contrary to authorial intent, which I think is at least a sustainable position to take. The problem if you're going for 100% death of the author is that you can't really criticize bastardizations of the work. You can't really draw a distinction between interpretation and the work itself because the work exists independently in the mind of any reader. But then how we can judge objectively artistic merit based on artistic intent, which I think has to come into the question of artistic merit. What I would say is that I think that the goal I would have is to try and separate them into two different discussions, like where you could have the discussion about authorial intent or questions of what or not have been factored into an adaptation or when choosing to do a follow-up to a story. I think that all those questions, I think it's a conversation that's worth having. I just think that when the conversation gets merged with a discussion about a story's merits internally, that you can just end up in some murky area where it's kind of hard to work through disagreements on those types of things. So I find it's easier to try and make them two different discussions, basically. Yeah, and obviously we went over it last night, but there's so many problems to have to deal with, including we're not limited to, if the author provides a contradictory statement about the state of being in the world or any particular item or thing in general, which statements to be taken as true. You have that problem quite sort of uniquely, I think, with Tolkien, the question of, it sort of verges into questions of canonicity in that sense. I mean, Tolkien wrote multiple versions of multiple myths. Many characters have multiple names, multiple lineages, and then the job is to decide, and it is up to the reader to a degree, or in this case, I think it's up to Christopher Tolkien primarily to decide which of these are canonical and which of these are apocryphal or which of these are sort of ersatz versions of what Tolkien wrote. But I don't think that really answers the question of whether or not the intent, the moral intent behind it, can be completely separated out from the work of art. That's why I was sort of saying, I'm sort of instinctively minded toward the middle ground, because I think we should bear it in mind. It's the old sort of critical approach to the pre-1940s, really, which takes the meaning, the moral purpose of the author, much more strictly than we've come to take it today. George Orwell wrote this essay called, I think it's the Frontiers of Art and Propaganda, which sort of sketching out part of the difference in approaches sort of pre and post-1940. And he sort of celebrates the idea that new criticism as it was emerging in the 40s is much more focused on reader. It's an understanding of the political inspirations of author, but not reducing works to the author's sort of moral and political opinion. I'm sort of with Orwell in that it's a kind of, it's a bit of a paradox, but I think it's a sustainable paradox. I think you can hold the middle ground on death of the author. I don't think you should ignore it, because ignoring it leads you to the place we're now in, but I don't think you should hold too strictly to it because that denies the validity of artistic interpretation. So my sort of stubborn middle ground, undefined, ill-defined, sorry, though it is, would be have regard to, but don't be restrained by. I would argue Rings of Power isn't a result of ignoring talking, it's completely fucking up talking, because they've clearly got some stuff in there correct. Like they've actually got, it's almost more frustrating, is that they actually line up some things, even if they're... No, well, what are we talking about here? I mean, I think superficially, yes, they use some of the correct names, but if you're talking about... I mean, the Sauron argument from earlier is kind of the useful example. Let's sort of say for the sake of argument, we don't know it yet, but for the sake of argument, that Disbru and Shad were right, and the Galadriel is going to turn Sauron evil by her own manipulations. Now, you can say there's a superficial alignment with Tolkien, and that both of these people existed in his works, and they have the same names. But my point would be, if you understand what Tolkien was getting at about the fundamental nature of evil, which is really what he is writing about, that completely... That's not just sort of... That's not a fucking up of Tolkien. That is a betrayal of Tolkien. I think you can say that's a betrayal precisely because you have adherence to the moral intent behind the Lord of the Rings. Sorry, so I'm saying that you were in... So that it's death of the author that links to that, that the Amazon writers would probably employ it, and thus that gives them the power to make such a horribly bad, unfaithful lack of accuracy adaptation. I would consider those things disconnected. I don't think they would deploy it. I think that that's the pervasive attitude toward art is death of the author. It's not that they would consciously sit there and say, well, I am using death of the author as a defense for fucking up Tolkien. You know, like 411 Thunder or anything like that, where Taika Waititi says, I'll ruin your mythos in a minute, maybe? I would probably agree with you if you said death of the author is a way that Taika Waititi might be using as a way to just fuck up the thing he's adapting, even including things that are part of a continuity. I would probably agree with that one. Not quite with Rings of Power. I think that they would all claim when making it that they're like, no, we love Tolkien. We're adapting his work. It's just some stuff that needs to be updated. I don't know that I would say that death of the author, I get the impression with some recent media that you are kind of expected to view it and consider it in relation to like the broader landscape or the statements of the creators rather than taking it for its own thing. Like I could imagine that a lot of the ways that people watch, like for instance, I'm not sure that anybody could actually tell you what like the theme of Thor Love and Thunder was without referencing interviews or anything. Same with Doctor Strange. What was it? Knives out, right? Like a lot of people's praise of knife outs is like word for word, just the Ryan Johnson's explanation behind the motive of making that film and like the structure that he wanted to do. I get the impression that like death of the author might actually be less prevalent now than it may have been a while ago where like people will be very quick to reference statements that are made about a film by its writers or directors. So was it that's a cop out you know the writers don't care about Tolkien? That's not actually like... I don't actually know that. I don't know that, yeah. I can't know that necessarily. Even from looking at their work, I can't know that. Yeah, they could just be bad at making TV shows. They might love Tolkien, but they're just bad at their jobs. And remember, we can have people who love the same work for completely different reasons and think that they respect it when they do completely different things. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, well, then you're sort of veering into the complete subjectivity of death of the author itself in that one. Just picking up on what Fringy finished there. I think there's a difference between something that's being created now and the adaptation of something which predates it or pre-exists it. I think you probably right in the sense that if it is a modern production which makes absolutely zero fucking sense, but so the director comes out afterwards or the writer comes out afterwards and say, well, I intended this about it and the film only makes sense with that reference. And yeah, you're probably right. For that new creation, it sort of subsists on the application of death of the author. I'm talking about adaptation, I think, probably more than the creation of brand new works. And we are in a world of interminable and unending sequels and prequels and adaptations and re-imaginings. But when you get to the point where you're saying, well, of course, I adore and I respect Tolkien, but I'm updating him for a modern audience. Well, I would think I would classify that in some sense killing the author in the act. And that's the verb form. I guess maybe that's a different... Because in my mind, I don't know, like whenever I see the thing where it's like, we got to adapt it, we got to update it for a modern audience. I don't know if I would say that that's death of the author or rather something else. I don't know if I... What do you do when you kill the source as opposed to the writer of the source? Like when you don't care about the original... Because the principle of death of the author would be like the authorial intent is not something that should be factoring into... I guess I could see how they're somewhat related in that you're essentially saying, I'm not taking into account the authorial intent and what I'm making. But I guess the thing is, I imagine a lot of people would counter as, well, no, I am. I'm just updating, you know? I'm taking what they meant and I'm updating it to modern audiences, which I mean, to some extent, that might just be like an impossible statement, right? How do you... How do you substantively change it without changing it? You know? If someone remade... It's kind of circular. You are changing it by virtue of making changes to the material. Yeah, and if someone made a new hope today by necessity, it would have to be different than when it was made back then for just all kinds of reasons, technology, notwithstanding, there's lots of other things. But when they come to the scene where Han is going to shoot Greedo, if they engage with death of the author, then Han will shoot first. Yes. And so that creates a bit of a problem, I think, for the people who value death of the author because it takes, it like respects the stories, because it creates a tangle. Because that's an example of when death of the author is actually damaging. And I saw someone say, I don't believe in death of the author, except when the author is wrong about the content. So you do... Wait, so you do believe in death of the author then? That's what death of the author pretty much engages in. It's like we're going with the source. If we're checking the author's statements against the source to see if they're right, and we'll only believe them if they are, then the source is all that matters. All point of death of the author is that you can disagree with the authorial... Yep. ...like the claims created. That's like the point of death of the author. So for instance, if the... I don't know, someone said like, yeah, the theme of my story was about love lost, you know? It's like, well, no, it seems like the theme based on the story that you've told is actually about, like, I don't know, the dangers of unchecked power or something. And then you have all of the references to support it. You just say to the author, okay, you say that, but like, I just fundamentally disagree. They've written... Two people in chat just said the author is never wrong. Two different people said that. So is George correct? Did Greedo shoot first? The author is never wrong. What does that mean? Well, yeah, I'm sure nobody actually agrees with that, right? It's the thing you say. So like if from... So if Zack Snyder said like, yeah, the main star of Man of Steel was Green Lantern, it's like, ah, we'll see. He's never wrong. So Clark Kent is actually, I don't know, Hal Jordan. And it wasn't a blue suit. It was a green suit. It was, because he said so. They just said yes. Greedo shot first. That's... Ah, all right. Yeah. I'm not Green Lantern. No, you don't. You don't believe that. There will be an example that you disagree with. How many lights are there on? I'm sorry. Han shot first. That is Ken and Greedo didn't shoot first. Fuck it. Zack Snyder isn't an author. So when you say death of the author, you're referring to the creator of like a creative work. Specifically a death. So it does include directors and screenwriters and artists. I don't know why. One of our prime examples was James Gunn. James Gunn about Suicide Squad. He is a director and a writer. So that's what we're referring to as a death of the author. And you know this as well. Like if you're disagreeing with that, I got to quote Andy Defrain. You're being obtuse. You're being very... Han didn't kill someone in cold blood. The whole idea is that Han knew he was there to kill him. So Han took the first shot because he's that fucking cunning. We didn't need to edit him awkwardly with his head jutting out to the side, dodging a shot to then shoot him. God, that was awful. It's terrible. Han shot first. Han shot first, yeah. And that's the thing. Han shot first is death of the author as I would call it a primary example that everyone engages in. But I can understand the prepidation with engaging with it because I would never associate rings of power as a consequence of death of the author. But I guess I understand someone believing that that could be the result because it's not quite how I associate them. I guess I could see in the sense of maybe the conclusion that comes from the perspective of death of the author is... Because we're trying to lay it out when we talk about it. It's like you can talk about the respectfulness and faithfulness of an adaptation. We just think that it should be a different discussion from its merits as its own thing. Maybe if you fully subscribe to death of the author, you start to completely disregard that. But I guess that's a choice at the end of the day, right? Like that's going to be your subjective value judgments about what matters to you and a story. And maybe faithfulness doesn't matter that much to you. I don't know that you could argue that somebody is more or less correct for having that perspective. Yeah? Sorry. No, go ahead. I mean, if there's a solid distinction to be drawn between death of the author and disagreeing with the author. So if you take like the Han Greedo example... Okay, so we know what the original author's... The author's original intent was, sorry. The author decided to update the depiction of his intent. We can disagree with whether that was the right choice. But we are still disagreeing with very much a living actor. And I mean, a living actor not in the sense of George Lucas is alive, but also creating the works that we are arguing over. So that you can disagree with his choice in that regard. And you can say, I think, aesthetically, even for writing reasons, for all other reasons, this was the better. The original version was better. I don't know that that's necessarily engaging in death of the author in quite so strict a way as to... Well, to help out the discussion would be on what canonically happened in the story of Star Wars. Did Han Greedo shoot first? If you ask George Lucas, the author, he will tell you Greedo shot first. Or I'm not even sure if you'll say that today, but for the sake of the argument, let's say he's still saying that. And many... I was about to say we. Many of the fans would say no, George, Han shot first. It doesn't matter if you released your definitive edition, your ultimate edition, which usually supersedes in terms of canon. I mean, it's up to the creator what thing remains canon, right? The IP holder. So you can say, like, I don't care what you have to say about what is canon, which is kind of the attitude we have with Disney Star Wars. A lot of people, but, you know, we've been over how, like, defining canon, it's going to have very little meaning outside of your own head canon. If you say it's only what I think happened. But yeah, that is a case where we say, nah, you're good. You're good, George. And have your ideas will have ours. The difference is George changed his mind. It's like, yeah, that's the thing. If the scene remained the same and there was no additional version released, he could say that and it wouldn't change what happens in there. And so that would be a case of just he's describing events wrong, but he's still the author. That's why it creates problems. Then there's sort of a subordinate question there is to, you know, the question of death of the author and sort of the ongoing authorial interest in a work. So like, I don't think to say that George Lucas changed his mind about what he would have done with the original version of Star Wars does not change the fact the original version of Star Wars is what it was. And there's the sort of the lowly sound of his original intent. I don't think that you could say, well, because he changed his mind on this and we don't agree that the fact there are contradictory versions of events means that authorial intent doesn't come into play. The original work of art stands and the intent that's behind it is still, it's still imbued with the intent that was behind it. And yeah, I'm still sort of very clumsily sketching up this sort of middle ground that I claim that I hold without being able to define it, but that's a consideration. Someone asked me, by the way, how do I define canon then? Basically, I think it's derived from property rights, right? That's where I'm getting it from. Yeah, the owner. And I've admitted that there's problems with that because as soon as your IP sort of protection runs out, how is canon defined then? It's like, I don't think there's any meaningful way to define it at that point. Is Winnie the Pooh blood and honey? Exactly. And if someone said, it's very meaningful to say whatever your head canon is, like, no, no, of course, you can run with head canon. I was just trying to find anything to appeal to this more definitive and less subjective. And I think probably rights is the place you could get. I think I've often said, I just can't treat solo as canon. I just can't do it. That's not like a conscious choice. I just don't believe it. But I mean, it's canon. It is. At least it's canon right now under Disney's ownership of Star Wars. And when someone says, like in the future of the Jurassic Park series, were they escaping fire locusts or something? You're just like, no. No, but on the other hand, they are. And they did and they were. I guess my problem with the full, the wholesale acceptance of death of the author is simply that it is, I cannot see away any check or balance, which stops that leading purely into the realms of subjective interpretation without reference to any objective standard. I mean, it was developed along the lines of, it's subjectivism sort of writ large. That's the school of thought it emerged in. It is part of critical theory. It is a subjectivist idea. And I'm saying, but it's born of objective roots or at least attempts at objective roots. So like this middle ground I'm trying to stake is between the old fashioned aesthetic autonomism and the critical theory developed death of the author, which I don't know that you necessarily have to go down that. But if you are going to go 100% death of the author, I think then you have to explain how you make any objective judgment about the quality of the work of art or the intent of the work of art or the message of the work of art. I think that you can, I think that, well, I guess, like let's say that we have a story that was written by, as far as we can tell, that there is no known author. It's just a story that was written by Bill, no last name. And there's no references at all to like his political perspective or his moral framework or anything. And then all that we have to go off of in terms of judging, I guess, the moral of the story is... What's in the story? Yeah, like, how do we do that? Or rather, is that impossible because we don't know who he is or what he believed in? I think the answer to that would be, no, it's entirely possible to pull meaning from a story that has no... I mean, I feel like we could just point to examples of fables that exist that we don't know who invented them. We don't know who came up with them. How do we derive the morals from them? It's like, well, just from what's in the story. But then you're deriving the author's intent, though, aren't you, by doing that? Um, well, I mean, let's put it this way. I can look at a film and not know anything about what the author actually believes and I can still make judgments about what they probably intended based on what's in the story. Yeah, exactly. What happens if I watch the Suicide Squad and I conclude the intent with Polkadot, man, and then I get told by the author I was wrong about the intent? So if he was dead and was unable to tell me that, would I have just been wrong about his intent the whole time? Without knowing. I'm not sure I quite follow. Sorry, quite follow. If we derive intent almost from the assessment of the stories, like even if there's no reference to this person outside of this one work, but what if it turned out Bill was risen from the grave and he was like your interpretation of every one of my intents of the story is actually wrong. So what was I holding onto at that point, just wrong interpretations or intentions? Arguably. Or the projection of your own intent onto events that you're witnessing. Well, just to clarify, in that world, you'd have no way to be able to tell, right? I thought, sorry, I thought you said if he came back from the dead and told me... No, if he didn't, sorry. Before he comes back from the dead, you'd not have any way of telling. Oh, no, no, no, that's fine. You wouldn't have any way of saying for sure what the intent was. I mean, that is a matter of ultimately subjective interpretation, but not all subjective interpretation is equivalently founded or well supported in argument. That's Douglas Adams' thing on opinions, isn't it? Not all opinions are equivalently worthwhile. They're not all as well supported by the evidence or the argument. You would have to look through and you could say, based on the available evidence of the story in front of me, these are the values that seem to come through. This is the value system that I think emerges from that. Therefore, these are what I would take the author's political or moral suppositions to be. But that would be my best guess. But that's still referring back to something, isn't it? That's still referring back to the question of authorial intent, even if he's dead literally and can't correct you. Well, I mean, maybe this might be an interesting hype. Like, let's say, you know, tortoise in the hair. What is the moral of tortoise in the hair? It's like, well, I think it's safe to say that the point of it is slow and steady wins the race. That's like the point of that story. What if your boy Aesop said, no, the point of it was, I don't know, it was like a critique of postmodernism or something. I don't know. It's just like, what does that mean? Like, if that's what he said, that it's meaning is totally different from like, what is in the story? Like, what am I meant to do with that, you know? Well, I mean, the fact that not every presupposition is contained within the story doesn't mean that that story contradicts the author's intent. So like, tortoise in the hair doesn't leave room for. Oh, well, well, what if, maybe, what if we use like, let's do a better example. We'll use that story, but he says, no, the moral of the story is slow and steady doesn't win the race. It is like the antonym of what the point is. It's the total opposite. What does that mean to us? I think the same response holds. I mean, there's only a certain amount of room contained within the story for any authorial intent and opinion to be added to it. What you could do, of course, is to go back to Esop's time and look at the state of affairs in which he lived, the politics of the city state in which he lived, any particularly notable events that he might be parabbling, if that's a word. Animal farms are quite a good example of that. Animal farm is ostensibly a children's story. And you can interpret it strictly as a children's story, but you can also look at the time in which Orwell was writing and the things he wrote alongside it, which give you some indication of the type of parable he was telling and the targets that parable was aimed at. Well, it sounds like what you're leading towards is essentially, now, this might not be what you think, that basically having an awareness of an authorial intent and then judging what the story is helps you figure out whether it's good or bad. I wouldn't necessarily say good or bad. I mean, you could say if Stephanie Meyer had written 1984, I would probably say, no, that's not a very good book because she can't write. But that's making an aesthetic judgment as opposed to arguing whether the intent behind the book is relevant or not. I'm curious, would it be correct to say you, not confused, but like you kind of reject, at least impartial in part, death of the author because of the fact that in assessment of the story, you're always going to have authorial intent involved. It's not just not possible to remove them. To a degree, yeah. I don't think the Lord of the Rings... Going to elaborate because it's going to be a bonus question. So if that's true, but we did talk just a little bit earlier that I could have come to conclusions on intents and then the author comes back to life and he's like, boo, no, you've got all them wrong, it's these. And I asked like, what was I holding at that point? I guess a better question is, was I not engaging in death of the author at that point then? Because all the intentions I had drawn had nothing to do with the author's intent. Would it then not be possible? It depends on how the impressions you have were formed, wouldn't it? I mean, if you're trying to say... If you're going back and you're trying to understand the context in which the work was written and the messages that it might then be conveying that are relevant to that context, you might be wrong, but you're still referential. I mean, you are still referring back to your imagined version of the author's intent. But the fact that you might be wrong about the author's intent doesn't mean that you weren't making a sincere attempt to refer to the author's intent. In that case, I've almost constructed an author in my head about his intentions with the story and thus it can't be considered death of the author still. Yeah, yeah. I think, well, yes, in two ways. I mean, yes, in the sense that you are referring to the author and you're only going based on the best available information. And all we can do is paint the picture using that best available information. But secondly, because whether we're right or wrong about how we interpret a work of art, my ultimate position is that that work of art could not come to be without expressing some element of authorial intent. The reason the story exists in the first place is because the author carries into it into the telling of it certain presuppositions, and they are usually presuppositions and prejudices as opposed to in the traditional meaning of prejudices. I have a question. You know about the monkey typewriter thing? Like if you put a million monkeys as a typewriter or something after it, or a monkey at a typewriter after a certain amount of time will create like the best novel ever. Give it an hour and produce rings of power. This is true. Well, yeah. How do we apply death of the author in that case, where it is literally just a monkey typing a bunch of like random letters, and then they just happen to create a brilliant story? They don't even need the monkey. It would be the same at that point. It's the same question I asked. The ghost author at that point, you would imagine them in your head. Well, sure, but I like the monkey example. So let's go with the monkey. I'm just saying it would be the same answer. He's already answered that technically. Right. Okay. I mean, there might be a subtle variation with the monkey. Well, the variation I guess would be is your knowledge of the fact that no one wrote it. It was an algorithm from, well, not even an algorithm, sorry. It's monkeys. Yeah. I mean, in that sense, it becomes a bit more like, I don't know, take like modern art, for example, like the most egregious example of modern art, where someone just decides, or actually, or even the mistaken modern art works. So someone drops their sunglasses in the corner of an art gallery and everybody thinks it's an exhibition. And so they go and take photographs of it and they think this is a really profound thing. That's an act of pure subjectivism in art, but there is no authorial intent behind it because there is no author to have intent behind that. That was a pure accident. Modern art often doesn't have intent behind it. Quite often, well, besides saying, I want everybody else subjectively to fully load this thing that I've sat on the ground with meaning, with import, with purple, with all the rest of it. But even then, there's an element of authorial intent there, which is just pure exploitation and laziness. But my problem with death of the author, I think, is that it can too often lead to pure subjectivism of the modern art variety, which means that you can look at anything and you can say, well, there's no need to refer back to the moral impetus that gave rise to its creation. All we need to do is just to say, well, I think this about it and that's good enough for me. I find that interesting though, because you've said you've been a fan of our work for some time, right? We tend not to do that. We don't do that. Well, I don't know that you... Well, this was part of the reason that it was so interesting last time and I was sort of regretful I wasn't in a fixed state to have the conversation. The interesting thing about it is that obviously you guys are big on, at least fairly big on objectivity and judging our aesthetics, at least, by an artistic technique, by objective standards. And the thing I was really interested in was that you should take essentially a subjectivist standard like death of the author and how that can be married. And I think it probably can be married, but how will you choose to marry that to the idea that you can make objective judgments about the work of art in general? Because of course you can make objective judgments about technique, irrespective of author, of authorial intent, or at least I think you can. But broader questions are the worth of a work of art. My suggestion, I guess, would be the... Maybe we are just operating slightly on cross purposes as terms of what we define death of the author as being. Oh yeah, because we clearly, like all the cast today, I think Disbru even has said in other streams that like, you know, he's sort of alluded to it there that he doesn't like covering things positively because he's nowhere near as entertaining. And his metric for what is the worst content versus best is how entertained he is. So the most boring will be the zeros out of 10, which isn't lined up with us at all. However, myself, Shad, disagree on loads of things. We disagree, but all six of us came to almost identical conclusions on rings of power. Kind of interesting, right? Like those foundations being, having these really important differences, and yet we all come out with similar results. Definitely. But then there is more to a work of art than authorial intent. So like you could be, you could fundamentally disagree on whether authorial intent is even important when you're discussing anything to do with Tolkien. But you could still look at it on terms that have nothing to do with authorial intent and make judgments on its quality of writing. Like, do events logically follow? Do character decisions follow from the information we have about them? Yeah. It does most of exist. Because none of that really has to do with... That's, I guess that's at the heart of it is like, as long as everybody in a conversation can agree on what framework they're using, whether or not that means that we're referencing authorial intent, then you can have a discussion where everybody kind of under... Because ultimately, I guess the most important part of the, of this process is that everybody understands what everybody else is saying. And so that there's like no points of confusion. And ideally, whenever there's disagreement, you're disagreeing on something that can be resolved by just going over the material in the story or the framework that's relevant to the type of discussion you're having, rather than getting stuck, essentially. Because we can't even agree on like a fundamental framework. The reason why I don't think it's like, I don't think that it's worthless to discuss authorial intent at all. I mean... No, yeah, we didn't... Like, I don't know if you watched our Halo coverage, but I mean, it's kind of hard for me to not talk about what I think that they intended and what I know that they intended based on their interviews. Because of course, that kind of pisses me off. Like, it's normal. I think it's like topical to talk about. It's just always important to try and not get those conversations confused, I think. If we can expand author to include the actors as well, as in the characters they're portraying on screen, is a work of art and that they are defining that work almost. So when the actor says, like, oh, he was clearly hesitating, he wasn't sure he'd do it and he probably... Like, he wouldn't have, if not for the fight he has with the seal door. We can all be like, fuck that, that's not in the actual show, you've made that up. Oh, yeah, but I wouldn't... I think I would reject the suggestion you can include actors as authors in this, in that way, or at least in a strict way. Like, actors are performers and they are performing things that have been written before them. He could have performed that, right? That could have been something he actually portrayed. He could have gone to throw, pulled it back and then heard the cough that that could have been something that he didn't, or rather, they didn't include that cut if that cut is in there. And then, of course, the question would just extend then because it sounds like, you're like, yeah, that's being rejected, but if let's say he was correct though, he'll be like, oh, well, yeah, I guess he's on board, but whether or not we're disregarding his opinion isn't actually in focus or not, we're just listening to him as a source for what is in the actual stuff and then we verify it. And that's kind of how I would treat the author. Let's in this case say, the director or writer or whatever of that episode of Rings of Power, they say, yes, he was hesitant and he wouldn't have done it if not for the fight with the sealed door. We'd again be like, no, that's wrong. That's the, you didn't portray that at all. That's not in there. I'm sorry, Mr. Director. True, no, but I'd agree with that, but that's because they're not portraying clearly stated authorial intent. Then again, what you're criticizing isn't authorial intent and whether that's relevant. It's simply assuming that it's relevant and you're saying is this what is depicted on screen, but you can't make that judgment without reference to. In that case, if they said, if the creators said he was thinking about not doing it, he didn't go through with, you know, he opted for going through with it. And that's not something that had crossed our minds at all. We thought he was just 100% on board with it the whole time. I probably would entertain that because there's no way to disprove it. And if there's ones like, but I wouldn't care to include much of it in an assessment because it's so up in the air, there's so few references. Like if they said, for example, he was actually a Skrull that turned into Bronwyn for that scene where she says, oh, we're all going to die. And then the Skrull left seconds after that and she was put back. I mean, there's nothing necessarily, I didn't think Skrulls were in this universe, but you know, it's just like that. You know, like technically speaking, there's nothing stopping that from being impossible, but I would still reject that even if the author says it and it doesn't conflict with anything in the show. Necessarily. Yes. And I think I'd reject it too, but I'd still deny it. I wouldn't deny that the intent existed, but I would reject that it hits the show. And that's the thing, I think Fringy was kind of mentioning it. It was like, we do value what the author has to say, but it'll obviously come under a microscope, just like everyone else's opinions. And that's kind of how we want to employ death of the author. That if we have, you, Fringy, and James Gunn talking about Polka Dot Man, I'm going to disregard his first out of the three of you, let's say testimony or whatever, as to what the idea is with Polka Dot Man, because his is so far away from it, even though he's the fucking creator. You know what I mean? Like that's where I use it. However, he could have had the most accurate and insightful one that actually points out things that everyone missed. And I should be like, oh shit, he's the most valuable one. And then someone could be like, well, duh, he's the creator. I'd be like, well, yeah, I mean, it doesn't always work that way. Yeah, I think I'd broadly agree with that approach, but again, all I stress is that that is still referential and that is still making reference to authorial intent. That's a judgment on the validity or the worth of the authorial intent. But that's about it really. But I don't think we basically do probably agree. It's just, it's more of a... I'd say we definitely seem to agree in practice because we've really ever come across disagreements in the conclusions of any one scene. Yeah, exactly. But there's going to be ones out there that may happen that are blurry enough and then you would have, you'd maybe opt for whatever the author has said is the correct answer, but we would say it's ambiguous. And even if the author says, no, it's X, not Y. I think, didn't Destiny say like, what would you do if Christopher Nolan said that the spinning top does drop at the end? We just ran out of film, we couldn't cut it or whatever. And it was just, I think we just said, now reject it, not in the film. It's not in the film. It just isn't. And so anything that exists beyond that, it's just like... I'm not even a fan of that ending. Trying to factor that in. What, of the where it does actually drop or... I think I remember not being a fan of it because it didn't make sense, but I could be wrong. I'd have to go back and watch it. Wow, I'm curious about Inception and how well it holds up. Oh, well, Inception holds up, yeah. Yeah, because I think I mentioned it before on stream. I'm not sure that the kick scene at the end makes any sense at all. I think they got it backwards. If I understand kicks and how they work in that film, I'm pretty sure they got it backwards. Because if you remember the whole point of like... The whole point of their heist was that they were so... They were so... Fuck. Sedated that they couldn't kill themselves. They'd go to limbo, but they killed themselves to get out of each successive dream state when the whole point of the kick was that it comes from the level above, not the level below. That the kick above will wake you up from that dream. I'm pretty sure it doesn't make any sense, but you know... I feel like any one of... If ever we were to do a Nolan for Eva movies, that might be one where like this bro, I'd need to watch it before we do Eva movies for it, just because with every last word of every character's like dialogue, you need to take it in to make sure you catch all of the craziness. Yeah. Sorry, all of the great writing. I didn't mean to say craziness. Let's look down. It's all of the great writing across all of his films. Exactly. All of his films and characters. Including Yes. That one too. I'm glad we've included all of them. There you go. There's our death of the author part two. I'm sure there'll be a part three tomorrow, so I'm not sure. The money laundering rings of power possibly cannot confirm the people do wonder where all the money went exactly. It's like, I don't know. Not to the script. I'll tell you that. All of the actors. Just watch two towers. Every character struggles to survive and every clip of Galadriel and rings of power shows her not even struggling. Yeah, she's amazing. I'm trying to think of... Does she struggle at all in the last episode, the latest one? She does some like stupid, super awesome moves, right? Where she like falls off her horse, then does some... I don't think she struggles at all. Yeah, she hangs off the side of her horse to dodge incoming projectiles, and then she's just amazing, even from the side of her horse. Even, yeah, even when she's faced with an exploding volcano, she just stands there and lets it come out of... Because there's a tempest inside of her. Oh yeah, there's no problems, indigestion. That volcano better watch out. Cyberpunk Edge Runners is by the same studio who did visions. It gets very contrived, bad dialogue, but fun characters. Four out of ten would be generous. Oh my. Had lots of recommendations. I think that's the first, the more critical super jam we've had of it. I still haven't watched it yet, but I've heard recommendations from mostly everybody at this point. The new cool kid on the block. Apparently. Provided lies in that game. Wings quote of the day. Thanks for the two dollars and fifty cents, that he thanks the account, which is, Wiggs hopes my family dies. Which for, well, that might be true, but... What could be the automobile crash one, right? Yeah, automobile wreck. All right, sorry, I got it wrong. Automobile wreck. Maybe he does wish your family was dead. I don't know. I don't know what it is, automobile wreck, that he said that instead of a car crash. Yeah, I've heard car wreck. I've never heard automobile wreck. I've never heard automobile wreck. It's a rare combo. He's bringing it back, Mahler. Bonus. No, I've never drunk milk so fresh, it felt like someone's tits in my mouth. Why would... He's such a character. He's such a, such a character. He is a character. Apparently this talk of bringing in Harrison Ford is a recast Thunderbolt Ross in MCU. There's all sorts of things wrong with this, if it's true. I heard about that. I don't even know how I feel about it. He's, he's... I think William Hitt was great as Thunderbolt Ross. It's just that he doesn't have... He like simultaneously is not a prominent but also prominent role in that he's filled up with so many times technically. But at the same time, he has very little screen time. So, I don't like Rody, but I guess he wouldn't recast him now. Well, now Rody's getting his movie. Armor Wars is going to be a movie now instead of a TV show. Oh, I saw that. Well, I think it's because Blade's collapsed, right? What? Dude, I really want to see what it would have been because it sounded fucking horribly bad. I mean, it's kind of a... When you find out it's like Blade was going to be... Well, it almost certainly will be PG-13. It's like, right, Marvel. Man, are we sure Deadpool is going to be guaranteed? And even if it's guaranteed an R rating, what about... What limitations are going to be put on them? Like in terms of what they cannot or cannot do. I don't know. It's the sludge pipe. I don't know if anything escapes. We'll see. Guardians 3 will be the one, right? They'll really test it. Yeah. Hello, EFAP. Devil Fruit of the Week is the super, super fruit which enables the user's body to gain characteristics of a steel blade. Characteristics of a steel blade? A super, super fruit? An exchange you can't swim. It's that one again. What characteristics? Because if I'm just going to be rigid... What is it? Is it like T1000 or...? What's it called again? Suba, suba fruit. Suba, suba. Let's see. Makes the user's body smooth and slippery, which in turn makes most attacks and objects slide off their body, protecting the user from harm in most situations. If one is overweight in any way, they will become slim by having the excess fat slip off. What? How does that slip off? Fat is inside. It slips out or it just comes out of your butt. Oh, no. Someone said you can basically change any part into blades. So if we go best faith assumption here and it's T1000 powers, in exchange for not being able to swim, and I guess everything else stays the same, you can just temporarily turn your fingers into a knife, your whole arm into a big knife. I guess, but I don't know when that will be really useful to do. I mean, yeah, I'd probably just keep a pocket knife on me and then I can still swim, I guess. Yeah, I always have a knife on me. And if I'm doing kitchen stuff and I have kitchen knives, I never need them outside of. Yeah, I just, I don't know when that would be useful. I'd have to be able to hang on to the more fruit. And then if it comes up, I guess I'll eat it. But I need blade hands. Maybe, I don't know. I just feel like we have tools for all the things that I would turn my arms into. Yeah, I'm trying to think of even a scenario where I'd need it and it's just, I think so. Uh, Disperu and Shad? Give me the meat and give it to me raw. Nice. Oh, yes. Just like Kyla's ferrets. Hale EFAP, also Hyrax. Hello. Virgin red letter media who reviewed some parts of old track versus Chad Lawrunner who reviewed all episodes of old track, searched how many episodes there even are of old track, a lot as far as I know. He has a bunch. Um, well, that makes sense. I mean, I wouldn't, I mean, we haven't reviewed all of Star Wars, you know, the, you know, different channels do different things. I think, um, you've seen their, their coverage of their favorite TNG episodes of old time or something, right? RLM? Yes. I haven't. I decided to avoid those ones because I feel like I really should watch those episodes, not watch reviews of them beforehand. Yeah, it's fair. They're quite coveted, those, those pieces of content. Hey, it's been on my mind, but the last Super Chat catch-up has strained my curiosity. What's the beef with Bojack Horseman? Yes. If you do watch edge runners, it, it's bad. It's not better than arcane. The beef with Bojack Horseman? No beef as far as I know. There's no beef. We just say it's not good. Compared to the acclaim that it tends to receive. Yeah. I think it has a lot of prestige that it shouldn't necessarily have. It only get into the prestige that it has. No, I don't think so either. Obviously, I used to think that, but my opinion changed on a rewatch. Hey, Shad. This week I mastered sword fighting. It's stab, twist, gut. It's so easy. It makes your channel look like a joke. Also, I'm all tempest. Jesus Christ. This guy's all tempest. And he has swords apparently. That's a lot. That's a lot of tempest. That is terrifying. Don't kill anyone, all right? Bad. Please don't kill anyone. But it's cool that you mastered swordmanship. That's all you really need. Disbrew. I knew it was only a matter of time. I mean, yeah, especially if the networks involved me. I mean, both disbrew and little platoon, I was able to sort of start conversations with thanks to open bar. Neat when crossovers happen. You can start cross pollinating. Little platoon is back. Perfect fit on EFAB. I think I don't know if you checked the comments. You got quite a few compliments last stream. Congratulations. Thank you, pollen. Very much. Oh, no. If you had to pick a single storytelling trope to discuss in depth, which would you pick? I have intense desire to destroy veganism. Hi, Mola. Really? Is that a storytelling trope? So this almost sounded to me like the question of like, you're stuck on a desert island. You're only allowed to talk about one, you know, like, like you've got to choose the one that you can get the most mileage out of almost any storytelling trope. I almost just want to go for a really broad one so then I can talk about all the components and stuff. Yeah, I'd have to really sort of see a list, honestly, to make sure. Just go for the good guy's win so that I can talk about everything, basically. It's not even untrue. Like, it is fun to watch films. I mean, Fringy had this about like two years ago now. I was about to say recently. Film called, well, I almost hesitate to say it now because like I'm implying what the result of it is. Let's just say a film with a very conventional story and then it like takes a pivot on exactly what kind of way it's telling it. And then the end, every component is in place for it to be like, woohoo, we did it. But the main character just fucking breaks down and accepts the fact that their life sucks and that they were victorious way too late. Yeah, it was an interesting film. Yeah, and I really appreciated the ending and it could almost say it's like, yeah, because it's a more raw, it's a raw meat ending and they gave it to me. Yeah, yeah. Like there was a- There was no quail sauce. There was no quail sauce. Emotionally easier option that they could have taken and they chose to take the more honest one. Yeah, and I appreciate it when they do that in Storyland. Story, especially when it's like, I was going to say almost a surprise because but I think that's drawn out from the trope. I assume if I'm allowed to call that a trope, it's just like I was expecting it to be the normal like, yay, we did it. But I was like, oh, oh, wow. Wow, they went there. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, maybe that's my legitimate answer and it allows me to talk about all kinds of things for ages. Who's next? I don't know. Maybe something regarding characters just being stupid because it has such broad swaths of consequences and it manifests in so many ways. But I'm not really sure if I'm asked off the top of my head but yeah, the just general stupidity of people in stories so that plots can happen. I really have a disdain for that and I hate it. I like the idea that modern writing is its own trope now. Maybe. Yeah. What exactly was the question? If you had to pick a single storytelling trope to discuss in depth, which would you pick? In depth, so it could be good or bad. Like it could be positive or negative. Storytelling trope. I mean, I do find the whole active and passive character thing pretty interesting as well as that characters must change. I find that these are perspectives that are worth evaluating more so than just accepting wholesale as like active is always better than passive or characters must change. They can't be static. I think that these are commonly accepted essentially limitations on the possible stories that you can tell. So I think that it's worth examining that more thoroughly to maybe hone in on a conclusion which I think is more fair, which is active characters are generally a better choice to make and characters in a story generally should have arcs but these are not requirements. Your story is not made worse for not doing these things. Necessarily. Yeah, basically, not necessarily. Maybe the hero's journey though. That's like a nice big one that you can talk about. A chonker. This is such a yeah. All right. Anti. Well, I don't have a character type to choose, but I'd go for anti-heroes. I like anti-heroes as an idea. I think that that's a trope. Yeah. Okay. I'll pick anti-heroes just because you can do so much that's brilliant with them and almost nobody does them well. So that's sort of broad enough to go on with. I've started working on my first video explaining why every single YouTuber except you guys are wrong about a certain video game franchise. Advice? What franchise? What are we right about that everyone else is wrong about? Are we talking about infinite? Bioshock? I have no plenty of people who don't like Bioshock infinite. Yeah, lots of people don't. So, hmm. Yeah, I don't think that we are right about no one else's. Doxels? I don't think so. Amnesia Reapers? Pretty sure. I don't fucking know. Would anyone like that? Compylosivus 2. Losivus 1. I don't think I would take was that. All right. Well, you know, I'd be curious to, as for advice, you know, just the usual stuff. Stay passionate. Stay on the stuff that you really, really care about. And then, you know, double check at your references right and maybe give a redraft to that script Aruni. Hmm. I'm not sure how you're going to format it. If it's about how everybody is wrong, I guess you're going to try and break it up into topics. Well, you could pick a few like very big name creators and pick five, for example, and identify an aspect each of them has picked out and contradict it. But don't like overdo that. Don't do pick too many. But let's say like a series of counter essays, as opposed to a big sort of flailing one. I'm so happy the writers of the show killed off Galadriel with the pyroglastic flow of the eruption. Yeah, it was really cool of them to do that. This is how we know they're listening to the fans. Anyone who put it in, who bedded from the beginning that she died in pyroclastic flow from a volcano, you win the pool. You did it. I don't know how you knew, but that's one hell of a guess. E-Hulk is awful. Now that this is out of the way, I want E-Hulk set on my face. I want Hulk, I see so bad. Anyways, James Bond arc with the UK lads when? That could happen at some point. It would be cool to get me as the Welsh one, drinker as the Scottish one, as is the English one, and then we'll have to find an Irish one. And that would mean that's good. That means it's a good thing. How that works. Veganism, oh yeah. Love listening to EFAP ripping crap entertainment little platoon. When can we expect part two looking forward to it? I'm assuming that's rings of power. Um, yeah. Well, hopefully next weekend. Tentatively though next weekend, because it was my birthday week this week. And so I thought I'll take a couple of days off. And then those couple of days off, I ended up doing Andor. And then Andor became longer than I thought it was going to be. But that's almost done. It might be out tomorrow. Assuming that's out tomorrow, if I can get two and a half hours of video done in a week. Hopefully next weekend. But given the last one took a week to get past Amazon, maybe two weeks time, but within the next fortnight, hopefully. Great. The plan is to grab Helios like the little clown boy he is. That's something I'll be doing. Not too long ago, go down until I get to God of War 3. You know Helios? Is he like, am I like, what's with my memory right now? I always, I partially remembered him as Apollo. And then I was like, no, he's Helios. So is Apollo a Greek God? Or am I just messed up? Yeah, Apollo is a Greek God. So who's Helios? On God. Isn't Helios, um, well, yeah. Cause uh, Helios, that's yeah. Cause like in Deus Ex you got Helios and Icarus and Daedalus and all that. Apollo is a descendant of Helios. Oh, Apollo is Roman God. Is he? No, no, it was Greek. If you've seen Helios is Roman. Okay, now I'm getting, I'm pretty sure Helios is Greek. Helios is also Greek. Helios is the sun. We are a heliocentric heliocentric system. I don't know what the Roman sun god is. I'm bigger on the Greeks than the Romans. On many ways. Uh, Mercury would be the equivalent of a Roman, is it? Uh, Apollo had no direct Roman equivalent. Because yeah, later Roman poets often referred to him as Phoebus. Is it safe to say? Well, cause I was just, you know, when God of War 3 starts, you have Zeus Poseidon, Hades, Hermes and Helios, I think. I'm curious about that choice. Uh, is it just me or is Apollo more well known than Helios? Apollo seems to be more well known. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm curious why they made the choice. Or maybe it doesn't, maybe there's a reason I'm missing. I might, Apollo's chariot draws Helios about the sky. Cause Helios is using a chariot I think in that game as well. Apollo is truth, Helios is light. Well, it's all good, it's all good. We'll, we'll uh, if you- Apollo has lots of things. He's one of those gods that covers a lot of different bases. He's hogging up all of the names of things. Music, medicine, the sun. Yeah, like, Eve, you know, things, and then you just got, yeah, you're the water guy. Sorry, buddy. Well, I guess water's pretty all-encompassing. Water's pretty great. They all have such- I'm just considering water's pretty good. They do, they do, their names are really good. Really cool names. And then someone could be like, well, maybe the names are just cool because you're associated with them. And then you're like, I don't know, I think they're just cool actually. They're cool names. Like, you know, there's no- If they were a god that was as badass as Poseidon Zeus and Hades, and he was just called Flemp, it wouldn't- Like that- Yeah. We wouldn't go off Flemp, man. What a cool name Flemp is. It's like, no. The great Titan of the sky, Dookie Dookie. You're like, I don't know, man. That's cat. We just call you Double D. But yeah, just, uh, these are- They're as strong as fuck names. They're really cool. I like them a lot. And it's cool that God of War takes so much advantage of just being like, Hey, they're cool. You're killing these guys. You're like, yeah. Pretty cool. That's why I'm building up my expectations and excitement for finally fighting Thor and Odin. Gonna be so cool. Please be good. A lot of people in chat, for even saying that we could be heading Velocifus II situation, I was like, oh my God, why? Why would you even temp fate? Wait, with what? Sorry? With what? With Ragnarok. Um, why is that the expectation that people would have? Terrifying. Why would we even entertain the idea, like I said? Uh, is it because like, because I think Cory Barlog is producer. He's not directing. He's working on something else. But he said cringe things, right? Uh, what, him or like other people who are working on it? I could have sworn people have been saying even Cory Barlog's been saying, I don't know. I guess we'll find out. Well, like bring stuff about the game or just what in general? Possibly, I haven't gotten anything more specific. I was kind of hoping maybe chat will enlighten me. Did say cringe things. Yeah, because well, like is there an example that might be something that gets you worried? Because I mean, you know, you could just have cringe that's totally separate from that work, right? Kratos and Toxic Masculinity. Yeah, but it's gonna be a hot D situation guys where they say it and then you watch the show and you're like, that's fine that you said that. You keep that to yourself though. He said civil war is the worst of all. Damn you, Cory. I guess it's something that's probably worth. I think it often gets lost in the discussion about the story. The last of us too was like not a good video game. And so like if God of War is at least mechanically as good as what the first game and like it kind of can't be a last of us two situation. Yeah, which is kind of nuts because my main and we'll see if this holds true when I play them, but my main appreciation of God of War three is like a, I would probably want to say a 70 30 split of mechanics story while my appreciation of God of War 2018 is probably a 60 40 split of story to mechanics. If not a 70 30 split of story to mechanics. Right. So really it does hinge a lot on the story. Yeah. So if Ragnarok has a really shit story, poorly done characters, but like mechanics that are even slightly better than 2018, I wonder if that'll even be able to stem my hatred at all. I don't know. Because yeah, you're right. So the last of us two gameplay wise, like I wonder if it was just because of how bad the story was that it started to really not have an ability to hide how much I don't like the mechanics in the world of the last of us. But I think that's totally it was hard to look for things to say. Yeah, like for instance, I mean, I guess like I want it with theunch. Well, I kind of felt because uncharted 4 at the beginning is quite slow. It has the problem that a lot of modern games have where like the replay value is significantly compromised by how how much the narrative dictates the sort of gameplay scenarios that are presented in the game. But I mean, as long as you're enjoying a story in a video game, I think people can put up with a lot. Whereas yeah, if like this, if the story isn't delivering and you're just left with the mechanics, it's kind of, uh, yeah, nothing to hide behind in a sense. Octake creators should have stayed down and they come up with a new protagonist. He wasn't dead. At the end of God of War three, they do they confirm he's not dead. He's gone. The blood side. I don't think that's gonna happen. He's too iconic. I don't even this is the thing. If someone said, well, you should have killed him at the end of God of War three, then you shouldn't have brought him back. I should be like, if we knew they were going to do what they did in 2018 with him, I would absolutely agree we shouldn't kill him. Because, uh, Right. I fucking I love where they're taking him from there, but I'm curious how we're gonna shake it out. I don't even know at this point, there's this talk of prophecy, right, that you'll be, there's loads of references to sons killing their fathers in 2018. And, um, and there's even this, there's a bit of that prophecy sees on a wall where it looks like he dies in favor of Atreus in some way shape or form. Um, Joel was iconic, too. Joel was iconic. That's true. Well, no, remember he wasn't a beloved. Yeah, he wasn't beloved. So it's fine. Kratos is beloved, of course. Of course. He kind of is, which is funny because I'm pretty sure Cosmodel right now his argument was he's not beloved. He kills people. He's brutal. He's like, that's not going to stop someone from being beloved by you. Um, anyway, you got all that stuff happening. There's what if, like Kratos is killed in the end of Ragnarok, but he ends up in like the Egyptian underworld. You know, because he's escaped the underworld in every fucking realm at this point. You can't, that's considered one of his greatest achievements is that when he was killed, he was so angry, climbed back out of hell in the Greek world. So it is really funny. It's too angry to die. That's like Kratos. Um, so yeah, if he was to be killed, it really would probably confuse the fans. You'd be like, I'm not sure how that happened. It's like, yeah, it just sort of did. Wish to be fair, you die all the time if you play the game. Uh, all these bad content like the Hobbits and the show ruined R.R. Tolkien's books, it's time to reboot it. Lord of the Rings, The Ring Awakens by Abrams and J.J. We Trust. You imagine The Ring Awakens. I could believe that too. Oh, I do believe it. Yeah, fuck me. It's gonna be so cool. Too much British. I feel like I'm watching Top Gear. What? It was only three Brits. What? What? How did it feel to be like three Brits and two Australians rags? How are you feeling over there? You're feeling great. Oh, there you go. Feeling really, really great. He's not feeling colonized or anything. It's fine. No, he's not. A little pumpkin? He's not really not. He's not really not. He's having a great time. He's not really not. He's not really not. He's not really not. He's not really not. It'd be fun to play a Treyas and the sixth god of war and it's like, I want to play Kratos in the Egyptian pantheon. I'm sorry. I deserve it. You have to give me it. Legally, you're required. But not like a Moon Knight shit version of the Egyptian pantheon but a right proper actual Egyptian pantheon. I mean, the big difference with the Greek era and the Norse era is it looked like they took it way more seriously. Like they actually tried to stay accurate at least to some a much higher degree of how the Norse mythology shakes out. There's a lot of things that they obviously fuck with a lot of it too to fit in their own OC but like, you know, it works. The Greek one, they just do whatever the hell they want and then they randomly reference like things from Greek mythology which is fine. Again, you can do that. The differing results, of course. It's like the third god of war was like super cinematic. It was everybody get ready. Fucking destroy Mount Olympus, buddy. Here it goes. Yes, your son has returned. I bring he yelled so much. I like that. But like, dude, I fucking love Zeus's opening monologue in that game. Like, there's a lot of cool lines in those games that talks about like the erection of Zeus never gets old. It's really funny. Yeah. No, when he shows, they show the cutscene of him shouting Aries like four times in the first game that it was funny when he streaming it. Zeus, Zeus. And it's so interesting to watch him younger and so aggravated angry and fucking killing everything in his path. And then you go to the 2018 one where he's this like clearly aged guy who's just like, fuck, I've been angry for so long. It's just hard being angry all the time. Where are we? Glad to see Shad, Disparu and Little Platoon. Shad and Disparu, aren't you exhausted after Friday night tithes? Dude, this is the thing. The people who are like circuitry around all the different streams, myself included, but like Shad's one of them, Disparu has been on like a stream every day. It's like, it does get ridiculous sometimes to even keep track of all the streams you're supposed to be on. Good for them. I'm glad, I'm really glad that Shad agreed to be on. I was expecting he'd be like, bro, I got your Friday night tithes and then hot D following day. If we get him tomorrow, that would be pretty neat too. But yeah, it was really cool to have Little Platoon back and Disparu. Real cool. Time to be back, any time. Mega pints all around. Hell yeah. Oh, I mean, I could use some mega pints after all that. Also, isn't the whole reason these people are being watched by the elves because of the blood oaths to Morgoth? So yeah, why not try to tempt them to turncoat and join the bad guys? Or you mean like on the part of the orcs? Like why not tempt them to try and turn? I mean, I guess they did, right? They gave them a chance. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose they did. I took out half of them. Yeah. And they didn't even really try that hard. They were just like, they do it. They really didn't. All right. All right. It was just this elf came back. This elf came back and said, yeah, if you go to him and you no, it was just a guy suggesting it. Yeah. I knew that was going to happen. I was going to call it out and then I was like, nah, it'll be fine. As a Norse pagan myself, I hard disagree that they're faithful to the mythology in God of War 2018. Pagan detected opinion discarded. It's funny because I said like I had like qualifications all over what I said. I was like to some degree and then I was like, but they fuck with it and you're allowed to do that. Like, do you really take from what I said that they were just faithful? Like with no context added? It's like, come on. Give me some benefit of the doubt. Even I haven't read Norse mythology, but I'm pretty sure Kratos isn't in it. It's okay. I'm not mad. I'm not mad at all that the Greek universe exists side by side with Norse and that I'm simultaneously being told it's not faithful. It's like, I know. I'm aware. It's okay. But when they have all those murals and the stories and Jormungand is going to have a climactic battle with Thor that is adjacent to Ragnarok, so like clearly they're working with events from the from the law where the Greek one, I don't think they gave a shit. They couldn't they were just using the characters and even then they were fucking with the characteristics. Well, yeah, that was just a playground, basically. But the Greek pantheon kind of is that. So there is no one established Greek canon in terms of its pantheon. Hesiod's version is vastly different in this version. I'm sure Disney will buy the rights to the Greek mythology anytime soon. I'm really like I don't suggest that. I'm really curious if they're actually going to explain what it even like, because that's actually arguably an issue. Like how does Kratos get from the Greek pantheon to the Norse one? What is the nature of that? You say that because I remember from the the raising Kratos thing where apparently people produces Sony were like, I don't really understand. Like he put on a backpack and like just walked to like Norse mythology and apparently Corey like, well, he doesn't have a backpack, but yeah, basically. Yeah, he just I my theory has always been they don't like, they're not overt about it because that might be answered at some point. They just need to figure it out because that's a tough one. Because what you need to do is make it so that it's distant and secret enough that no one else has used it, but it's still accessible by Kratos. Well, it's just maybe another place in the world in each place. It's always going to be difficult to reconcile, especially. Because there's I believe the most powerful entities of the Norse and Greek universes would probably be interesting because I think Mimir was like aware of the Greek gods. Just like, so this is so how does that work? What's what's going on there? You know, happens when they because God of War is probably never going to end. Like God of War is one of Sony's most successful. I'd be happy for it to go on forever if it stays entertaining. Oh, it's just that it's just going to be more variables because they have said that Ragnarok is the end of the Norse saga, which means that next up is probably Egypt. And it's like, yeah, how are you going to factor in Egypt as well being a part of part of this world? If it's Egypt and it releases on PC, I might actually get it. I'm I'm I'm big into Egypt stuff. And I need to be in a release on PC at some stage. I would hesitate. Just make sure it's the kind of game that you have any interest in, though, because they're God of War's combat is very specific. I was really ranting to rags last night about so I don't think I'm not opposed to the concept of like third person action sort of stuff. It just so happens. I don't play really any of it at the moment. But I think it's more coincidental than anything. Yeah, fair enough. Do you intend to tackle the lotus eaters commentary on Snyderverse? Praise from the other political aisle of bad media may require inspection as well. I've been critical of many of Sargon's media takes. You'll find disagreements all the time. And now I can eat fat movies that may release some year that we've got cook into the background. But one day, one day they'll come out one day. They're there. Yeah, praising the Snyderverse movies. Look, I would just I just you go right ahead. Don't you? You're it is you are. You have the right. You have the right. You do. That is that is one of the author I happily see die. Jesus. Metaphorically, obviously. I just survived minecraft and minecraft, he means. Yeah, like if you were playing minecraft, as Zack Snyder, you'd push him into like a little death hole or whatever they have in those games. Yeah, it's it's fun to do that with your friends. It's not Sargon. It's someone else who works for him. In that case, that's fine. You know, it's fine either way, but it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Let him be wrong. Mola, Rags, Fringy, Shand, Disperu, the little platoon. What a lineup today, everybody. Good to see all these fine gents destroying rings of power together. Oh yeah, we got a great group for this. Yeah, it did a pretty good job about it. Oh yeah, we don't enjoy this show much. We're not not too keen on it. My brother still somehow likes this Gabbo. He just started a YouTube and his first video is on it. If anyone has a free moment to roast him, I'd appreciate it. His channel name. I'm not going to do that. Here's his channel show. Listen, OK, it's fine. We don't need to we don't need to be like, hey, go get him. It's like, Jesus, no, no, no, no. I don't know why, but for some reason, I always thought Sauron was an elf, lol. I thought he was too. I was not one of his many ever bizarre. Yeah, so when you never really thought about it, he's Anatar, I think, and he comes as an elf to the elves when he wants to convince him to to create the rings of power in the first place. So he can he can present as one up until the point at which Numenor is destroyed. And then we'll see him in season two, three, four or five or five. Yeah, he'll probably be played by a celebrity. But yeah, Numenor gets destroyed. He gets struck by lightning and drowned, and then he has to lose his ability to take fair forms ever again. Man, I hate getting struck by lightning. I know it's a bit of a if you're a tree, though, when that happens and people have been plowing good and evil into you and you have a Silmorelle in the center of you. And well, Galadriel's favorite wine is Pinot Glycerin. Nitroglycerin. Is that because of the explosive wine, I guess? Yes. They packed a lot of it on the ships just for her. Like, it's understood that she is a terrible alcoholic. And it's the only way to keep it from attacking other people from going into a rampage. If she gets upset, she will single-handedly destroy all of Numenor. Unstoppable, the plot demands that she succeed. So they have to boost up. She sways drunkenly, saying, Oh, she'll love me or despair and despair even. Give her that explosive elven shit so she doesn't fly off the handle. The short story Platoon was talking about was probably the appointment in Samara. Very short read, but it's nice. Hi rags. Hello. I don't know, but perhaps yet. On this episode of Rings of Power, Mount Doom finally gets the origin story it deserves. Yeah, which by the way, I think it was messaging either it was either shadow disproved this one, I realized pissed me off a little bit more and I think it was because of the fact that that's Mount Doom. Like, it's like, get away, get away. You know this, don't you? And it's like, I do. I do know what Mount Doom is, and look at what you're doing to him. Touching it. You got only your fingerprints on it. You got your Cheetos lady fingers all over Mount Doom. It's like licking the bar to like, is mine? No, not not dooms crying. Reach out his little little little volcano arms like, help me. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All your stock versus Brienne sparsene is the pinnacle. It is right. I remember that being okay. That was season eight as well. So right. I wouldn't call it a pinnacle. Right. But hey, it would be cool to see Shad give an assessment of that. Maybe it's not as bad as I think, or rather it's better than I think it is. I don't know. Oh my god. Lord Longbong of Milchington Abbey, is there any good chance of a Kongfap, of Peter Jackson's long Kong, when there's less going on? It'd be a movie fap for the ages. Yes. Oh yeah. Hello ragsies, screeches for the good boy. Oh, hello. Yeah, it'll have to be later because October is just so busy. Cannot be this month, probably not next month. But who knows after that, you know? We're just slamming through them. Busy, busy. House of the Dragon is mid. Maybe. I'm going to wait until it's done before I'm going to want to try and tackle that. I would also like to refrain from talking about it in more detail until rags is now caught up. Yeah. Because now you're unfortunately in a position where it could be spoiled for you. Oh my goodness. And I actually care about it being spoiled. I was about to say it can always be spoiled though because of the fact that it's going to be three seasons and the full story is already out in book form and some other forms. So I'll just not look up stuff. Yeah, I was going to say it's kind of standard. There's that's the same thing for a lot of adaptations, but in the sense of me trying to talk about the show, though, I'd rather wait until you put up like I said. Yeah, yeah. Willem Blackwood skipped the second step on old Bracken. That's how you know he's not yet a master. Still killed old Bracken, but not an orc. Does that mean anything to you guys? No. I'm not following that. I'm lost. Sorry. You Galadriel tanks a power clastic flow to the face like a Chad and she'll survive the bestest, most badass girl boss ever. I have a feeling that we won't see why or how that's possible that we'll just get the aftermath immediately. Yeah, she'll just be dirty. Everyone will be walking around crying and screaming and we're like, Oh God, this is terrible. And but it'll have settled. It won't be any more like giant cloud. She'll still be beautiful, but dirty, a little bit dirty. One little patch of mud and that's it. Maybe a beauty scar, you know, not anything disfiguring or prominent, but like a permanent down below, you know. Oh, it definitely won't be permanent. No stab, twist, gut. Galadriel teaches the Numenoreans the combo of how to beat the soda Popinski and punch out. Oh, I hope it works. Oh, because they might have to fight soda at some point. Galadriel's line, stab, twist, gut is more ignorant than the one from Mask of Zorro, pointy and goes into the other man. That line is meant to show ignorance. His is trying to imply intelligence. That's actually a great point. You remember when the experienced Zorro is teaching the up and coming one and he's like, do you know how to use that? And he says pointy and goes into the other man, which that's true. It's just obviously more complicated. And it's like that. That's a great foundation. His is stabbed to his gut, which as you heard today, there is some issues with him as a line. The sea is always right and wet and irritating and it gets everywhere. Yeah, it's very true. I say that about the ocean all the time. I wish I was born in the desert. That's it, that the Numenoreans and the only people to whom the line, I grew up surrounded by water would actually be relevant because they were. Well, and yet I haven't heard that yet. But to be fair, Boba Fett did grow up surrounded by water. I just don't know why he told anyone that. There's a time and a place. Yeah, what benefit was there to saying that? I don't know that he even knew. He was just like, well, sometimes I just like to talk. I heard someone mention it, water, you know, kind of reminisce. Yeah, no water. That takes me back. Oh, yes. The good old days off topic, but watching 205 and thought y'all might be interested to know that an Italian artist sold his immaterial statue, low sono for several thousand dollars back in twenty twenty one. His immaterial statue. So I assume like the way you're not. Please don't tell me that it's immaterial. That's not real. I assume that's what they mean. Oh, no, looking at images. Oh, what images? That's the great question is how are you looking at images of it? And it's like, exactly. Mad. I mean, yeah, this is apparently it. But to be fair. Oh, you see the statue? Oh, it's not what I thought it looks like at all. Come on. I think that one actually might be the number one example. I wish we had had it where it's like, this is really test of the limits, isn't it? You buy the statue and it's like, yes, but it makes you feel, doesn't it? It's like fine, fine, fine. What a neat statue you have there. And just like the person who like, organizes the entire gallery is just crying in the background. The destruction of art. Just reading the subhead, despite lacking any physical form, artist Salvatore Garrao, I think that's right, said that the immaterial sculpture titles Lusono, meaning I am, very much existed in its nothingness. Yes, I agree with that statement. Aliens need to stick to pizza and submachine guns. They shouldn't be dabbling about in this fucking art. They haven't made anything good since about the third century, so that's probably true. Next up, please explain reasons why you believe Hallbrandt equals Sauron. But I do feel bad because there's a lot of people out there and I think, I think Dev is one of them. There's a couple of others I've spoken to where they're like, what Hallbrandt is not Sauron, even to the point of assuming that not Gandalf is Sauron. So I have the unique benefit of number one, being told by people who've been told, by people who've been told, by people who've been told the story, and it's lined up fully up to this point that he is Sauron. I mean, I was told that very early on. And so then you just keep a lookout for how they could build the story to be that and match it, like, you know, times that by their incompetent writing that we've seen. And things are slotting more into place in terms of how you'd expect them to tell the story. And then there's a couple of references that are kind of undeniable, right? Like when he fights the dudes, that scene is definitely portrayed in a way to be like, ooh, that was a little bit, it wasn't like a heroic type fun character defending himself from those assholes. It was more like, you went a bit far and you hurt them more than you needed to, buddy. Like, what does that mean? We had this with, what's his name? Pennyworth in Batwoman, remember? Where he killed someone which he didn't need to. And the show was like, ooh, yeah. But we never did anything for that. Yeah, breaks her neck. I don't think that went anywhere. She's cleaning, she'll never tell everyone. Oh yeah, it was never at all mentioned in any way whatsoever. So you got that. That woman is the shield that's even worse than Rings of Power, so. He's super interesting in forge and shit. You got a, which, you know, just matches the whole makes the rings part. You got a, he's got like a lot of awareness of all the shit that's going on in the Southlands. You've got his lines about how, in order to like control people, you need to find out what they fear, give them the ability to master it and then master that, which as was said earlier, that kind of just describes the one ring. There's a lot of things going on and knowing that he's Sauron from the other thing is just how it's directed the conversation. But don't worry. Don't feel like you've missed something. It's just bad. So like, you know, when it's revealed, it's not like we're going to be like, told you so. It's just, this is something I was told so. So Galadriel can't feel or smell out all evil. Great. What? What's that going to do? All right. I mean, fair enough. I can't. I was going to say after I expand my dog, the trope is accurate. I was about to say, yeah, dogs. Definitely they bought the evil things. Yeah. I'm a zombie dog though. Zombie dogs and individual basis. I'm assuming more of your gas mask means that you're the least able to do this. Well, it filters out bad things. I can, I can change the filters to filter in whatever I want. You know, so if I filter in the smell of evil, I'll be able to do that. Fair enough. Very specific filter setting. Oh yeah, they're great. That might be trying to corrupt you by giving you a mask that has that specifically as a filter setting. They're actually, oh, there's Mithril in the... Did Halbron to make your mask? Yeah. They're strong and unyielding is evil. Yes. Really weird that he said that, but yes. Very strange. Hey, uh, hey, Gilglad. Why did you say evil was strong? He's like, huh? No, no, no, no. I meant both of them were strong, both. Good and evil. No, sorry, good. Good is strong. I don't support it, of course, but I mean, we got to face the facts here. We're pragmatic sort of. Undeniable. No, we're not. Yeah, they're just like, but you agree that good gives up where evil doesn't? He's like... No. So about that table. Oh, yeah. Is, yeah, there would be the evil one in that because he's lying. Yeah, yeah, and Gilglad's a cuck. Uh, Halbrant's smithing scene is BS. That hammer is twisting the metals to a bad curve. That blade is going to be bent. No, he's the sword master. You're not. He made something that the smith man was like, whoa. Wow. You must be wrong, persons commenting, because I was shown in the show that you made something amazing. In the lore, no one can see the rings unless they are ring bearers. Really? You can't even see it. That's only true of the three elven rings, I think. Oh, okay. Because if they were 20, the elves make three in secret, and I think those are the three, Naya, Nenya, and the other one that I don't remember the name of. Those ones are invisible unless one is a ring bearer themselves or wearing the one ring, but Sauron doesn't actually know that those have been made. All right. I'm three hours behind, but if you guys have talked about the 10 out of 10 IGN rating, just remember they also gave the last of us two 10 out of 10, so I don't know if it's really weird that much. I think it's a lot of things 10 out of 10. Yeah. IGN is, I'm certain that they were financially compensated. Maybe. I think that's... Yeah, I'm not even... I wouldn't even... What I was thinking about when you said that was more so that they make these reviews, not necessarily because they have direct communication and they are paid off, more so that they know it's more beneficial. There is an understanding. Yeah, more beneficial. I think it's a very, very well understood from both sides, back and forth, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, nod, nod about what they do. You could also look at the writing credits in season two and see if any former IGN employees are on them. It would be funny if that was the case. The theme for rings of power is plot twist, MacGuffin, and it's not a MacGuffin, but instead a more underwhelming MacGuffin. Sauron's sword is just a key. Mithril is just magic lightning, but the mark of Sauron is a map. You say these things as if they're not much stupider than that. Like, Sauron's sword is just a key. It's like, yeah, there's a lot more that's really dumb about that, actually, in terms of what it does specifically. The key, the keyhole, what it does. We'll have so much to talk about next time. Oh my god. That's the sound of forgiveness, Elrond, explosions, and then silence. They take the explosive wine when they go to battle, or is just what they drink normally? Do they explode if they burp or fart near a flame? So first off, yes, obviously. Two, I have no idea. I thought that was like lamp oil or something. I would not have guessed it was wine because it looked so thick. I think the argument was describing them as being in casks made people think it was wine, but that ultimately you could store theoretically lots of things in a cask. You don't have to store that wine. Absolutely. And it came out pretty thick. It looked thick. Yeah, if it's an oil meant for burning, then having it with a spigot makes sense if you just want to put a little bit in a lamp or a torch or something like that. You don't want to dip a bucket down air because it'd get all over your hands. And now it's just messy and icky. The dirt sticks to it. But it's the ethanol. It's the ethanol content in wine that burns, isn't it? I'm sure wine, no wine, even undiluted wine that we drink today, does not have a high enough ethanol content to actually. Yeah, I don't think it's... I've never thought of wine as that flammable. Yeah, but... Yeah, I don't think wine is flammable. I think there's some really hard liquors that might be. Like vodka would... Most spirits would be flammable, right? I actually don't know. Depending on how much it's cut with something else, but it has to have a high ethanol content. So it has to have a high percentage, like ABV percentage, I think. So people are saying oil doesn't explode. Idiot, we saw it explode. So it must explode. It exploded. Whatever, that's why... That's the source of the confusion. If it just burned the ship down, then it could be all sorts of things. But the fact that it was explosive... Yeah, I mean... That depends on the thing it's in and the air pressure within the thing it's in. It's like... Same thing with the Mount Doom thing we'll come on to whenever we get to the next episode is that would the water have the effect that it has? No. I think the explosion... Not quite, yes, but no. Well, so to be fair, sorry. My exasperation there was because it's magical bullshit too, right? It's not just a normal volcano. But yeah, I see what you mean. I think it's now. Well, I mean, the light... What was Fring was referencing, right? There's weather effects inside the pyroclastic flow. It's like... Oh, I think that does happen, though. I mean, like... Electricity? Because, yeah, because you've got... Well, it's not electricity generated by the thing, but it's charged particles within the pyroclastic flow. So I think you do actually, in real volcanic eruptions, you will see lightning because there are charged particles within the pyroclastic flow, which then arc the energy between themselves. So I think that does actually happen in real life, that you can see artistic depictions. And I think photographic depictions as well of real-life volcanic eruptions, where you will see lightning in them, either generated from within the pyroclastic flow, or because of the interaction between that flow and the clouds above them, which have charged particles in them. Well, that sounds really cool. I know. How are they alive? If you add that on too? Yeah, I think it's supposed to have 3,000 degrees Celsius in there, so they should be dead. Yeah, because it's just like, adding even, I don't know, all right, fine, yeah. She'll be fine. She'll be a little dirty. She'll have to take a bath, but it'll be fine. The theme for rings of pala is... Oh, wait, I read that one already. Wine explodes. Oh, yeah, well, they could have been just C4 in storage there as well. I think that was around that time, right? They would have had that technology. It's a new anore. It's like Saruman's gunpowder stuff. It's a fire of Orthanc or something. That Luminor had their own. They just did not follow proper safety protocol in its storage. And that leads to accidents where they drank it to make them more angry and fierce in combat. They try to grab Sauron or kill him by grabbing him and burping into a candle. I could get him to do it. Who's more unlikable? Rings of Power, Galadriel or Kate Kane? So I have it. Probably Rings of Power, Galadriel, because there's something funny about Kate Kane. Yeah, this is something about Kate Kane I enjoy. I wouldn't be upset seeing her again. I kind of want to see Kate Kane again. Galadriel makes me sigh every time I see her. I'm like, no. Because both of them try so hard, but I don't know. I guess Kate Kane just fails in such a funny way that it's just more entertaining and it makes me smile. I miss her. Since they are forcing the Galadriel hull brand thing, is it possible they change it so that her daughter, Calibrian, is the product of her and Sauron? I feel like they would never do that. Area things have happened, I suppose. And, you know, all bets are off as it goes on, I think. They're probably going to get more brazen with their Beaches of Lords, they go. Jus'l Karen and I'm seriously pissed they didn't address what happened to her kids. Kyle and Sarah, legit, the two best characters. Sorry, dude. Nobody cares about- Can't help you. I cannot help you. No one can help you. I know lots of people are asking for Long Kong, but I'd love to see you guys do Godzilla versus Kong. A movie that manages to be horrible and stupid despite having five writers. I don't know if in this day and age you can say despite having five writers, yeah. If anything, five writers is more for a film. Well, TV shows tend to have a good chunk of writers, I guess with a film, usually, if there's more than two, it's usually like, ooh, that's a lot of hands in the kitchen. Bumping into each other here. A little bit. It's just very often when you find out that a film is cataclysmic, you look at how many people wrote it, it's like, oh. It's what I've been meaning for ages to go through and try and do a little short-term study thing. What's the average size of a writing team these days compared to even the 1990s or the 1980s? Because it does genuinely seem to be that the more you have, the worse it gets. If you compare, say, 2001, a space odyssey, has Arthur Clarke and Stanley Kubrick working together, so there's two of them, you compare it to a modern film which has anywhere between four and 12 writers on it. And the quality is evidently so much worse, but it's so reliably so much worse that you wonder why it is that they have these workshops as opposed to trying to find individual sort of creative people to hem the whole thing from start to finish. He's expressing her Mordor guilt. I was going to be a lot more for the next episode. They're getting on the boat was embarrassing to watch. Oh, yeah, when she's getting the armor. Yes, yes, it was horrible. It's horrible. I don't know why they made such a huge deal out of it. It makes you think bad things. It's like, when we watched it, we were both thinking the same thing, just indulgent. Yeah. Take a dark soul's power, stamina and its recharge rate, ability to drink orange juice and recover health fast, eye frames at will, or learnable sorcery. Learnable sorcery. So we can knock out temporary eye frames because I feel like sorcery might just be able to cover those sorts of things. But if we say that it's sorcery, except being able to go temporarily invisible, invincible, recovering health fast is pretty cool. But does that just mean healing fast, not healing? Depends how that manifests. Is it just recovering from cuts and wounds, or is it like your body is just constantly regenerating and replacing itself? Does that lead to immortality? That was specifically, you have to drink orange juice and you recover health fast. Very strange. I'm not exactly sure how that works, but I feel like- I guess it's fine because orange juice is always available. It's not, yeah, it's not that. I'm curious mechanically how it rolls out. But yeah, I think if I were deciding just based on what it says here, I'd go with the sorcery, yeah. Yeah. Is there any different answers? Let me know. I'll just give you a chance. Even though I'm more of a Christmas person, I'm definitely looking forward to your final destination arc. Happy early Halloween. You should. It's going to be funny. Those movies are very funny, especially the fourth one. I'm looking forward to that one coming out. I am very excited to see these come out. This is why you lock your layers, Fringy. Lesson learned, lol. Fringy says you are 100% right, and I should have known that, and I'm a bad man. Fringy just typed it out, yeah. Yeah. My master, Maulrod the Great bids thee welcome, who has authority to treat with thee. Amazon, I have a token I was bidden to show thee, and then it's one star rating. Wasn't that the Malfur Sauron thing, I think, but that wasn't in the theatrical cut, was it? It wasn't, and shit man, the part where he shows the shirt and Marion Pippin start saying, no, and they start crying, and Gandalf is like, be quiet. Be quiet, silence. Don't say anything. It's so interesting, because yeah, they could so accidentally give vital information in the case that this shirt was just taken and not Frodo. Like Gandalf holding out hope, and he says it in such a way that implies that he's still fighting the fact that he's like, oh shit, is Frodo actually dead? Imagine the amount of sort of import that that scene has, the cut scenes from the theatrical version of the Lord of the Rings, versus the included scenes in Rings of Power. Even a short scene like that just has so much more, or Saruman's death, although to be fair, Saruman's death scene actually really does detract from the theatrical version by not being there, because it's the only one that- I think it's incredibly important that scene. Yeah, I mean, you can't explain otherwise how they got the Pallantry from Isengard without that, but just the idea that a few, well, a couple of minutes of cut scene from Jackson's films just outmatches anything, even the most important scenes in Rings of Power is a pretty good comparison to see how far it's sunk. Wait, someone in chat said, I hate that scene so much. Oh, this R on the scene? You hate it? Why? What? What weirdo freak. Hey, don't call him that until he has bad reasoning. Then we can say it, okay? No, I'm hedging my bets. I'm curious. Saruman doesn't die in the theatrical? Technically not, yeah. Do they make any reference to Saruman being dead in the theatrical one? No, you don't see it. I think there's a reference to the sort of the situation being resolved, but it's not mentioned that he dies in the theatrical version from what I remember, but it's been a year since I last seen the theatrical version. It doesn't fit his character. I don't know if Saruman's character, this is only seen in the movie. I guess if you should say it doesn't fit his book character, maybe? No, it does. Quite accurately. Maybe Saruman's scene, maybe? But even that fits his character reasonably well. In that case, yeah, I'm not sure. All right then. Watching Hot D in Noderotic Streams makes me want to watch Game of Thrones. Worth it even just for the first few seasons? Hi Rags, what's a good first pistol? Okay, right before you answer that. Like, should I watch Game of Thrones? It's like the first answer is, you could go as far as season four, but then like, do you really want to do that? Watch, because that's the... Four seasons is a lot to be invested and enjoy. And then just to be like, well, now stop. Even though there are still good scenes in and among season five, six, even seven, I think. I'm not sure about eight, maybe, in the first two episodes, but... Yeah, so it's really hard for me to recommend Game of Thrones at all. It's really difficult. And I'm not even sure I've decided yet, but as for Hot D, not going to recommend that until either the end of season one, and I can figure out a way to do it because it's good enough, or I'm going to wait until all three seasons are out. I've been very definitive about this. How good it is does not define whether or not I'm going to be recommending it just yet. That Aragorn's character, not the mouth of Sauron? You think Aragorn is out of character in the mouth of Sauron scene? The scene with the mouth of Sauron is holding up Frodo's shit. You think he's out of character for Aragorn going to kill him? Everyone's saying it, apparently. How do you guys feel? I never considered it bad. The mouth of Sauron's evil. And he's talking about how they tortured Frodo before they killed him. Yeah, I don't know. I don't... Look at how he stopped Theoden from killing Grima. So I thought that was a weird choice, actually, into two towers when he stops him from killing Grima. And it has serious consequences, him doing that. It does, but there's a difference because the whole sort of setup to the Grima scene is that they realize that Grima is not sort of the originator of the evil in that scenario. Grima is the person they're actually appealing to. Theoden does appeal to Grima. Oh, no, wait. No, you're talking about in the two towers, right? Yeah, well, in the same sense, I guess, because Grima isn't the big bad in that scenario. Grima is as much manipulated by Saruman as Theoden has been, in a way. And that's why you get in the deleted scene in Britain of the King, they appeal to Grima's sort of better nature against Saruman Theoden tells him to calm down. So that's part of Grima's own sort of aborted redemption arc. The mouth of Sauron is simply that. He is the mouth of Sauron. He's a horrible monster person. Yeah. In fact, I don't even know what species he's supposed to be. He's not cooperating in a... Yeah, he's odd. There's probably an element too of Grima was begging for his life on the ground, helpless as, you know. And so that might have, you know, and as like an actual like a man, clearly mortal creature that isn't some magic bullshit, then, you know, there is probably that element of, you know, you probably shouldn't kill him. It would be, no, it's not. I mean, I assume the logic is that he's almost like a messenger and you shouldn't kill the messenger, but I imagine everyone doesn't feel that way about awkward messages. I think we've broken the spell. He's helpless and he can't hurt us anymore. So to kill him here... No, no, I'm talking back about the mouth of Sauron again. Oh, I assume that he's virtually an enemy commander, combatant who is like, I guess, evil in some different sort of way, who still represents some kind of a threat operating in a more, I guess, official capacity. Also apply a variable of Aragorn's mental state. He's not exactly chuffed with the news. Yeah, I think that is a totally fair... I definitely don't see it as out of character. Seems very upset. I don't either. But it's interesting to hear the perspective. Anti-whitism ruined Lord of the Rings. I don't know about that, did it? I think it's shit writing. I mean, I'm guessing they, hopefully, they mean rings of power. Not Lord of the Rings. They've just said Lord of the Rings. I assume so. Oh, sorry, I skipped over the question. Rags what pistol? What did you say was a good first pistol? That was the other question. Oh, I'd probably go with... There's plenty of good choices to make, honestly. A lot of it will be determined by how it fits in your hand. So for that, I can't really make much of a recommendation, but there's plenty of pistols that are A-okay. It's kind of like buying cars. Like a vast majority of them will probably be just A-okay. I have, I like Glock's myself. I like their simplicity. I like the way they look. I think they're easy to shoot. So that's certainly an option that you could go with. You can get plenty of police trade-ins that are pretty cheap. If you need something on a budget, I hear high points are not that at all, especially as a cheapo starter pistol to get you into just the basics of gun safety and things of that nature. Knowing, you know, having one to own and maybe any, you know, considerations that come along with, you know, the possession of a firearm. Oh, do as someone who shot a Desert Eagle, like the full thing, not the 357 version, but the 50 AE, do not get a Desert Eagle. That is excessive. It's fun to be like, wow, this is nuts, but you will, no, don't get a Desert Eagle. Don't get a Desert Eagle. Even if they can shoot through anything, of course, don't get a Desert Eagle. Hey, Mulder, have you seen Don't Hug Me? I'm scared TV show yet, since you're from British lands. I'd like to hear your opinion on the show. I have not seen it, but I've heard a couple of people asking about it. I'm surprised it's gotten to that level, even of just people discussing it at all, because it's like a parody satirey thing, or rather an adult version of a kid's program, like a bunch of Muppets. They're talking about maths and things, but everything's just a bit off and creepy, and then more of it, things happen, I think, as the show progresses. That's kind of a fun idea. I'm pretty sure it started just like a casual, quick YouTube video that was like an idea. Like a full, that could be wrong about all of that, by the way. I'd have to check the wiki, but yeah. You're bringing $5 for defending the honor of probability and combinatorics? Combinatorics? All right, well, yeah, I do my best. I mean, I'm not sure exactly what the conclusion of all of that even was, because I had missed like the opening of it, and so I came in just listening to like, percentages, fractions, whee, wham, I wasn't sure. I think, as is so often the case, the conclusion was it was shit writing. That, we can all agree. Author is never wrong, then TLJ was flawless. I don't think, I don't think, yeah, to be fair a little bit too, I think you say that if the author says the work is awesome, that it is. I don't think that that's how it works, even though Ryan would probably say his work is awesome. He did say that none of the criticisms hold up. Yeah. Then he's wrong. Ah, man, he's very wrong. Very wrong. Has anyone asked thoughts on and or? It was refreshing to not have any fights in an episode, but I'm disappointed to see people call it boring and bad. Disappointed to see people call it boring too. I want to leave people alone on the boring one. Everyone's entitled to find anything boring, whatever. I'm disappointed in it. What I'm disappointed in is suggesting that there needs to be more things that connect it to Star Wars, and that if it didn't have Star Wars on it, it wouldn't be anywhere near as washed as it is. Okay, that's fine. If you wanted to say, for example, Cloverfield Lane, 10 Cloverfield Lane, nobody would have seen it if it wasn't connected in the Cloverfield universe or something. I'd be like, well, it doesn't change how good the film is up until if you discount, because I guess that's a part of the film to a degree as well. But I guess what I'm suggesting is like, if there were more X-wings, more lightsabers, more ray guns, I said ray guns and blasters, if there were more of those, then it would be more Star Wars-y, and that would be better. And it's just like, guys, I thought we just spent the last million years talking about how much they involve random Star Wars shit to just keep you involved. Like, that's what those other shows were. And I'm not suggesting an outright ban on Star Wars items in a Star Wars show. Just bring in what should be there. Yeah, I mean, we know we're going to get them even from the trailer. You see Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers and Deathtroopers, I think, well, in the trailer. But you're going to get that stuff. But if you're suggesting that it can't be Star Wars, unless it has those things all the time, then you're sort of arguing for exactly what we've had up until this point in the Disney era. It's just memberberry shit constraining the universe. The reason I like Andor is because it expands it believably. I've never looked at Andor and thought, this doesn't look or resemble Star, look like or resemble Star Wars in any way. I think it actually, to the extent it's good, it actually adds depth and layers to the Star Wars universe in quite a Star Wars-y way. My problems with Andor, to the extent I have them, have been largely to do with the writing. Like, a lot of the payoffs in episode three don't actually stem from the buildup in episodes one and two, which I think is something that's legitimate to criticize. I think it's been a pleasant surprise so far in that it's been quite mature and adult and it doesn't treat its audience as though they're idiots, which is a good start. And you can't complain about the bad writing and the formulaic nature of Marvel products, for example, and then criticize the show just because it doesn't exhibit the same traits, which I think a lot of people have been doing with Andor. I just think there is an action every five minutes. Well, okay, but are you happy with phase four? No. Maybe then you should give it a chance. And to clarify, there are plenty of criticisms for Andor that involve consistency and character criticisms and just general even talking about pacing to more detail than simply iron board. But yeah, I've just been seeing a decent chunk in several videos being like, what is this show? It feels like a show they just made. And then they said, by the way, this isn't the Star Wars universe. Which is fine. They add a lot and it's like... That's fine. It's you're allowed to have that perspective, sure. Easy. We talked about this before with superhero stuff, right? And we were like, like it sounds absolutely ridiculous. Like you could never make the father in the superhero universe. I was like, you could though. You just like, you're just so far away from it as a thing that you think it's almost impossible. It's like, but just having like a famous superheroes reach that age and Professor X is like, I can start referencing Logan. It's like, we're already getting close. Just go down. It's like, yeah, but it has to have action. It's like, does it? And you could still have flashbacks if you really need it. And you can tie them in to how this character at this age is losing memories and losing control of their brain. And it can still be very allegorical. It's just like, those are the experiments I really want to see. Even if they're bad, it'd be cool to see them. As opposed to like failing the same way, which is what phase four feels like to an extent. And or, yeah, you know, I would say that the sentiment for EFAP so far is that we're impressed because we never expected Disney to come out with this. We thought they were stuck in a particular sort of mode. And to be fair, this doesn't actually mean that they're not stuck in that mode because this was created before that main mode was solidified. So they could still be in that mode. But for now, we get a whole season of not that yet. It seems to have escaped that. Yeah, and it seems that most, if not, everybody agrees. Okay, yeah, it's not like, it's not like Kenobi or Boba Fett. Okay, well, at least we're on that. But yeah, the main criticism we've seen for everybody is that it's boring. It's very boring. The only way to really get an answer on that is to... I think, because like I had it on Friday Night Tights, I was like, I'm not going to be able to... I can't talk you out of finding it boring. That's impossible. The way I would have to do it is to get you to tell me which scenes have nothing happening in it. And then I would have to see if I could argue what we were learning in the scene and what was important in the scene and then see if you agree or disagree. There's a couple, but I mean, that's bloat rather than boredom. So there's a few unnecessary sort of introductions of people Andor knows and has seen before in his daily life. I'm thinking the... So either the second or the third guy who turns up in the street in episode one, I think, to whom Andor owes money. He has the alien friend as well. We never see those characters again. I don't think it adds anything new to the dynamic. We already understand this about Andor. He is in debt and the sort of... There's a net tightening around him, but principally from below as well as above. So you have the investigation by the police above him. But you also have this declining charity amongst the people below him. And he's running out of options. He's running out of other people's charity. We've had that, we had that two or three times before we got that scene. And that wasn't very long, but it was there and it didn't need to be. And it introduced another character who we'll never see again and took up time that could have been better spent, I think, developing some of the more important characters who were... There aren't many of them, but there were a couple who are underdeveloped in the first three episodes, chiefly Tim. And you could have spent a bit more time with him and less time re-emphasizing a point that's already been made. So there's a couple of little bits of bloat, but I wouldn't sort of criticize it any more than that. Those scenes do serve a purpose in showing how Andor treats people he owes money in different ways depending on the relationship and what they're willing to do for him. And they could also turn up in episode five or whatever. That's true. No, I see that point. I think my point is that we've already established that thing about Andor's character would be my only... It's not even a very strong criticism. It's just like if you were going to try and economize anywhere, I would have economized on that because it's already been established. We've seen two or three other people to whom he owes money. And we've already seen how he deals with different people differently depending on who they are and how much he owes. We don't necessarily need the fourth and the fifth person. And that sort of... I think that can give the impression that it's taking longer than it really is to get to its point. So I'm not saying that's a massive flaw. I'm just saying that that's something which, if you want to avoid the accusation of boredom, maybe you would economize on that area. Well, the funny thing is that seniors, I and a couple of people in the Friday Night Tech Stream, we did find the show boring. We're saying that they liked that scene because of the funny alien thing. So we just stand here. You remember that scene, right? So, yeah, as someone in chat mentioned, it's just like, yeah, you just have to find out which scenes they found boring and how they define sort of... Because that's the thing. Boring is useless. It's the underlying stuff that you can actually get into and dig into and figure out what... Because different people find different things boring, right? Like, there's someone out there who said Dark Strange 2 was boring throughout. And I just be like, you found it boring. Okay, sure. It's possible, I guess, because if you just overloaded in action and nonsense magic and stuff, you're just sitting there like, I don't care. You know, it's possible. You just have to dig a bit. But, yeah, even from EFAP's point of view, there are plenty of criticisms for the show. I just didn't want to see that as the main criticism. It is a bit reminiscent of Bly. Not quite the same thing, because I think Bly is heads and toes... Heads and shoulders, sorry, ahead of Andor. But at the same time, there was a lot we were getting interested in scenes-wise. And it's like, oh, people find this boring? It's like, I wouldn't even have might have given it quite a few more episodes before trying to rip into it for anything in any way, just to see exactly where they were trying to go with everything. Because one of the things I think is really true, YMS felt this way about movies, I think, that you haven't really, really consumed it until you see it more than once in terms of, have you really gotten everything? And you could say the same for seeing a season of TV to go back and see what they were... What may have seemed innocuous is now very meaningful, because you know what it was leading to, sort of thing. It's possible. But at the same time, amen, if everyone finds it boring, I guess it was kind of boring, at least in that metric, and that has to be... You have to come to a point where it has to be accepted to some degree, that a lot of people just find it boring. What I will say is there will be consequences to that reaction. It'll tell Disney stuff, especially if the message from Kenobi wasn't that it... You know, like, if they were like, people didn't find Kenobi boring, they just thought it wasn't very well-executed in a couple of ways, and they're like, ah, so you want more Kenobi, we just need to fix up maybe the action. Because they don't want more Andor, they're finding that boring. That's the worst thing is boring. You know, it's possible this could have really bad results if everyone's like, eh, fuck Andor. And when it could be the one chance to be like, this is a better direction, Disney. This is a better direction. Will there be an EFAT Mini for Andor? So the problem I'm having is I have literally got no time to make them. But I might try and make them so that they're all... It's a Hill House style. They all just release as one big video. And they're a lot less lower editing style. So that you can at least get our coverage of it in that format. But because I don't think I can release them as individual minis right now. The Halloween arc is still not ready to go. And it's releasing. So I got loads of other stuff to do. You know, our works, Halloweeny times. Anyway, any of you guys checked out Resident Alien, really good character development. Resident Alien. I've heard about that. That's Alan Tudyk. I've never heard of it myself. So I don't... I think it's a show on sci-fi though. So, you know, make of that what you will. You guys seen Shin Godzilla? I might have. I can't remember if that's the one I've seen. I don't think I have seen it. Well, all right then. Bring me favorite Trios of Horror episodes. Man, five is really good. That's the one with the running joke of Willie getting axed in the back. Dude, I would actually go as far as saying seasons like three or four up to like season 10 or something. Just all of them. Yeah, there were a lot of good Treehouse of Horrors. I'm a big fan of that one though in particular. That's a really good one. Everyone the gremlins on the side of the bus? Yeah, that's a good one. And then Otto, there's a gremlin on the side of the bus in a small manner. Hey, no problemo, Bart. Dude, I'll take care of it. Smash the season. You're looking kills a man because the bus is a gremlin. And then like he manages to just softly roll into a ditch and then a car explodes. You have to include that one part right before it explodes. He just goes. And then just blows up. Oh, man. They were 3C. This is, see, this is consistent with my character. My favorite collection tapes of any Simpsons with the Treehouse of Horror ones. I treasured those ones the most. Treehouse of Horror was, that was always one of the things I really enjoyed in the Simpsons. Like Treehouse of Horror was so much fun. I remember, I want to see if I can find it. The tape, I see it in my head. I think it was the family, but it was the Addams family or something. It was like a collection. Yeah, I remember that one. I think I had the Hell one. Do you remember that one? Heaven and Hell? It was like Heaven and Hell. Yeah, that was one of my favorite tapes as well. It had a really good selection on it. It had Prima the Heretic, which is a really great episode. Yeah, so they, yeah, they are the Addams family. Or at least, no, wait, I'm not sure, actually. Or the Munsters. Because Maggie's like an alien. Oh, it could be the Munsters. Yeah, actually, that might be it. Anyway, that tape had Treehouse of Horror 5, 6, 7, and 12. Interesting collection. Dicks was a really good one. I think that's the one that had when the billboards and stuff came to life, right? Which one did you say, sorry? I think six billboards when they came to life. Yeah, it's got, in this halloween themed anthology, advertising icons go berserk in attack of the 50 foot eyesores. Grantskeeper Willie invades the children's dreams. That's a fucking great one as well. And Homer enters a 3D world of computer animation. Yeah, that one's great too. Oh dude, the one with Willie that smarch weather. And then what was it? Do not touch, do not touch Willie. Good advice. And then he turns up the thermostat. And then Willie catches on fire. God, please help me. Willie, please. Mr. Van Houten has the floor. And then, oh shit, I can't remember what he even says, but it's really funny that the thing that Van Houten is like complaining about. Oh my God. I'm getting nostalgia heavy from this fucking tape. So the final one, Dress of Horror 12, Hex in the City, a gypsy kisses Homer bringing misery to everyone he loves. I remember that because Marge like grows a beard, Bart's neck goes all flimpy. Lisa, does Lisa turn into an animal, some kind? I can't remember, but the second one is when Pierce Brosnan is Hal in their house and he falls in love with Marge. And do you know what I associate that fucking episode, that specific individual episode's event, like, because there's three stories per one, right? I remember when that one starts, I have a distinct feeling of, oh no, the tape is coming to the end. So weird. That's right. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, and then the last one is the Harry Potter type one, WizKids. Bart and Lisa are students of the school for wizards where they try to foil the evil lord Monty Mort. Monty Mort. Oh, that was a good tape. That's a good one. All right, anyway, where were we? Dude, I wouldn't be surprised if I have us do like a, just being you watch Simpsons in midi format someday. That would be pretty great. Maybe like one per week or something. That would be fun. It would be easy to edit and talk about. Why not? A little platoon, did you know that England is your city? No. England is my city. What it says? He said it. I did not know that. No, but now I do. So thank you. Also, I see Fringy change his profile pic to a blue bird, embracing your bird heritage, I see. That's my Halloween. I'm cassowary. That's very scary. Yes, it is scary. Yeah, I thought it would be a fun. I hadn't organized ahead of time foolishly, stupidly. Do they all have red eyes or just yours in particular is particularly? They have kind of like brownish eyes, but I decided to push up the the red a little bit. But yeah, they do kind of have brownish eyes. Moller, although I do love Rhapsody of Fire, Epica has become my favorite symphonic metal band. Also, X files is to me as Buffy is to you. Everyone should have an equivalent of what Buffy is to me. That's good to have, you know. And I never saw X files other than a couple of episodes, but I'd like to, as far as I know, that shows pretty cool. As for Epica, maybe I'll try and listen to some of it. Thanks for the suggestion. You qualified it by saying the Greek games were less so. It's absolutely the other way around. Neither exactly faithful. There's no fucking way that you could consider the Greek games more faithful than Norse ones. You'd be insane. What universe where they just say like, This is Pandora's temple. Pandora's box is in it. The gods want you to kill Ares because he's destroying Athens for some reason. That's just happening. Meanwhile, the amount of lore, the sheer amount of lore in Norse, the Norse version, where all the different things you can read and pick up. Now, it's not to say that they didn't completely change the events to match what they wanted to adapt, but it would be absolutely insane to say the Greek games are more faithful when they'd like what they use from the Greek stuff, at least in the first, no, I'd probably say all three of them. The most they do is just reference what we're familiar with, which is like Zeus by his lightning bolts. He talks a lot of people, I think. Somebody does. Pandora's box was just given to some dude. Well, the thing is, because Kratos isn't exclusively made up, right? There's some things that he's vaguely based on, as far as I know. I didn't know that. It's like an equivalent that begins with C instead of K. Someone in chat might know. It sounds as though, as someone who's not partial to either Greek or Norse, it's like just by playing the games, you can tell which one they delve deeper into to try and sort of match or form the game around. And again, I don't blame them for that. They can do whatever they want. Or they can adapt it just as much or just as little as they want. Can you get varying results? Like a way Titi did it. Quicked out. He did. Yeah, that's a... He sure did. He just didn't. He didn't give a shit, did he? No, he didn't. Doesn't seem like he did. That's a shame. Man, though I will say, in a certain sense, it was a good thing that he did that video where he's making insulting the visual effects artist work because it's like just reminds people, like, yeah, this system of making films is really bad. Where even the director is there criticizing work that they didn't even have enough time to do. And you got Kratus, C-R-A-T-U-S is the... He's like some people saying he's an enforcer for Zeus. So again, this is what I mean. It's like loads has been heavily edited. And then there's not much reference to the events in the Greek world, even in the trilogy. Meanwhile, one game in the Norse one. This is the thing, they've changed their approach. Everyone can tell this from the original trilogy to the new game. And it's neat, it's different, but... Like, to say it's the least faithful would be the Norse one. I just go as far as saying it seems almost impossible, if not hilarious, as a statement. Things like a lie or a carp in a seeding. Yeah, I'd be happy to concede neither a faithful in the strictest sense, but we know which one is more faithful. Little platoon sounds really, really gay, or just really British. Is there a difference really? No. Unclear. We'll have to get our scientists on it. Ask again later. God of War, Assassin's Creed, Dante's Inferno. I've experienced these games only in their punished forms on PSP. Konnichiwa, Ragsu. Oh, hello. Give me an Assassin's Creed for PSP. Give me an Assassin's Creed for PS Vita. Ah, that might be one thing. Was it good? I'm assuming... I have no idea. I have no clue. It was probably good for PlayStation Vita, which is an interesting sort of standard. Well, because Killzone Mercenary I liked. That was like a portable Killzone game. But I like that for as its own thing, more so than just like, well, for PlayStation Vita game, yeah. It's kind of the same with the Uncharted game on PS Vita. It's like, yeah, it's cool for a portable game. It wouldn't have been hard to say. It should have been wine, but it was some fire water. Easy intrigue plot that would have better led to the next story beat. Why could it just be oil? Isn't fire water whiskey? Why not just make it oil? It's like liquor, yeah. Oil used for the lanterns and for war purposes or whatever, I don't know. It didn't even need to have it at all. He could have just started setting fire to the... Yeah, that's true. They made a wood. They just made a wood. You don't need to explode them. He could have just started a fire in the lower deck. Yeah, that would have been cool in the trailer, though. Maybe he... Maybe as an accident, the smoke wakes up Isildur, and Isildur waking up distracts the Saboteur, who maybe bumps his head as he's trying to escape and haste now that he's starting to panic, something like that, and Isildur has to rescue him. Did you play Age of Mythology? No. Is that the Age of Empire's expansion? I'm not sure. It might be. Age of Mythology. It is Age of Mythology, at least in 2002. I don't know. It looks like it's its own thing. Developed by Ensemble Studios, published by Microsoft Game Studios. Well, Ensemble made Age of Empires, so... It's in the Age of Empire series Wiki, so I don't know if it's like a spiritual side step from that series, or if it's technically a part of the series. I'm just not sure. It sounds vaguely familiar, but I couldn't place it. Yeah, it says... Yeah, it looks like it might not technically be one, but it is one, in essence. Hi, Rags. Hello. Did you like SCP-3000? Look at SCP-2764. 2764? That's what it says. And... I have to double check. SCP-3000 was all right. Yeah, I think I liked. I did like SCP-3000. Yeah, I did like it. I thought it was a really neat idea that was presented in a decent way. I'd have to look up 2764, though. I haven't read this one. Any Age of Mythology has Greek, Norse, and Egyptian all in one game. Sounds cool. By the way, I was just thinking... Surely the adaptation for both the Greek and the Norse would actually just be considered nil, because we're just going to kill every god in both pantheons. So I'm going to assume that's not a part of their lore. Yeah. But at the same time, there's clearly way more present in the Norse games, but they'll even have like, you know, the story of when Thor and like a giant from Jotunheim fucking fight, and you know, for whatever reason, that's completely disconnected from the events in the actual game. And I would assume, I'd have to check, because they don't have any reason to contradict what I'd imagine is in the actual Norse myths are accurate, or at least to a degree, because it's through translation. Which is another thing I heard, by the way, that translating the Norse myths is like complicated, and there's several different things you can read in terms of exactly what events transpired, which goes the same for Greek too. Hence why they're considered myths, right, as opposed to... How does someone get to find some myth? I have no idea, in this area. I don't know. It probably depends on, you know, who you ask in the time periods, but this definition says a traditional story, especially when concerning the early history of a people, or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events. And the second definition is a widely held, but false belief or idea. Alright. Superhero vision of the father. Everything the same, but he's also now actually pretty dangerous as his mental powers and physical power can lash out. Yeah, that's why the Logan reference is coming in, yeah. Obviously, Professor X's deterioration has a significant effect, both before the events of that movie and in it. Hi, people. Please check Wunderfrau 1917, The Trailer, an EFAP meme starring the EFAP crew. Oh, do we need to say that for a meme episode? Possibly. Take the title of a song you've heard and add, In My Ass. Well, I'll keep chat busy until the end of the stream, I'd imagine. I was thinking Twilight My Ass. In Twilight In My Ass. One of my favorite songs is Emerald Swords, so. That's not good. You don't want to have those in your ass. No, not good at all. Summer Night in Sausalito, In My Ass. Muse, Supermassive Black Hole, In My Ass. Yeah. She's in my pants, in my ass. Oh, uprising in my ass. What's wrong with the application? For example, the Disney song title, Someday My Prince Will Come. Someday My Prince Will Come from Snow White. Yeah. Did you mon? Someday My Prince Will Come in My Ass. The Snow White, yeah, she likes it. Yeah, you can tell. You can tell by looking at her. Assuming she's 18 and a consenting adult, of course. I don't know what the fucking. So Digimon of the Day is Palmon. P-A-Lmon. Oh, this is one I remember. Yeah, this is the one who turns into the cactus. And then the cactus turns into a fairy. I don't know. You do. I don't know. At least the fairy is vaguely flora themed. Yeah, you have the weird plant thing here. Then it turns into a cactus with boxing gloves. Then that turns into a somewhat plant themed fairy creature. That's evolution, folks. Yes. Unfortunately, don't have the money to qualify this. That's about how it's more faithful to Greek than Norse. I mean, the fact that you introduce yourself as familiar more so with Norse mythology probably explains why you think they're more. They're more caring when it comes to Greek. I'd imagine anyone who's super familiar with Greek would find the first three God of War games to be insulting when really they just haven't fun with Greek and Norse. But they clearly read up on their Norse when they made God of War 2018 compared to reading up on their Greek. Because it comes across God of War 1 as more so a game that you could have made with any group of friends coming up with and they're aware, the awareness of the gods. Then, you know, because the thing is they contradict themselves, man. Like all the gods look completely different in the first game compared to the third one. They changed their minds as they went on. Exactly what they were going to do. And of course, Kratos killing them all for revenge. I don't think that's in any of the myths as well as... Because this is the thing, I'd have to go read them all. But like I said, I'm just going from a cursory glance. Pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more effort related to the law of Norse than there is of Greek. Which would imply to me, naturally, intrinsically almost, that the accuracy is going to be more so present with the Norse. But I suppose if I was adapting Tolkien's work and you compared mine with Rings of Power and all mine was, was just like a forest and Gandalf's in it. And then he's just walking around and that's it. That's my whole story. You might consider mine more accurate than Rings of Power. Because there's less to get wrong. But I don't think what they did with the Greek era would be considered accurate. I don't even think it would be considered close. But maybe this... Maybe I'm completely wrong about that. I'd have to go look at Reddit threads to see what the experts say. Familiar with both? Just don't have the money? Then don't you worry about it. Nor problem. Greatress will continue to butcher the gods until he reaches his ultimate form, Pontius Pilate, where he will lose against Jesus' Respawn. Hi, Fringy. Fringy would have said hi. He's a little bit busy. Yeah, he's busy. Versus matchup. Mario vs Kirby games only. I think Kirby wins that, right? It's unfortunate that during this question, Fringy is unfortunately tending to something and he's away. Well, we can chat about something until he comes back, I'm sure. But my guess would be Kirby. Kirby is like incredibly resilient and possibly a supernatural alien creature that potentially lovecraftian from what I've heard from lore. Or is it that Kirby just battles lovecraftian enemies? Not quite that Kirby is in any way lovecraftian. But Mario's quite killable in all of his iterations. Kirby is too, but at the same time Kirby just seems like it's it's hard to kill Kirby, it seems. But don't worry. What was the question, sorry? I missed it. Who wins? Mario vs Kirby games only. Kirby wins from what I understand. Kirby destroyer of will. Something like that. Ooh, Kirby beat Karl Marx in the games? Is that in the first one? I look, I'm not an expert on Kirby lore. Hmm. Well, that, that, that is it. We caught up with the Superchance for the days, obviously. Which means. Oh, hey, what happened? All right. Um, I was going to say that, that's just we're probably going to wrap it up there because now we're going to need to be able to eat food, go to sleep, and then go back to streaming and talking about rings of power. Because that's what it is. Oh, another one came in saying fleams. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Um, yeah. What in these brains a little bit melty? Well, lost, like you got any plug, plug your channel. Yes, I'm actually even doing. Oh, well, if I have time between now and going to bed, I need to finish off my hour long and all video, which will hopefully be out tomorrow. Um, I'm just filling in like little expression shots and stuff, but that will theoretically be out before you've up tomorrow. And then it's back to rings of power. I'll have recovered. Maybe probably not. I hope the same goes for all of us. Another one just popped in saying name one media where no one has managed to properly criticize it and, uh, and it gets unfair criticism or unditive praise, nothing in the middle. Um, my brain isn't working very well at the moment. So I'm struggling. My head keeps going to overrated stuff. But then I'm like, well, that's not good. Same. Inception once at endgame. Hey, he's right there. And we're right here. You're right here. We share his opinions on that movie. That fine, fine film. Someone said ukulele, right? And it's like, I don't think many people are saying that game was a masterpiece. Most people are saying it was shit. Sonic the hedgehog under overrated. Well, that's, so we're looking for something that either people say is a masterpiece or terrible when the reality is it's in the bill. Maybe, um, maybe the last of us. There are people, there's a lot of masterpiece ratings. And then there are plenty of people who would say it's absolutely terrible. Maybe that's the one. We will go with that. But now perhaps there will be better answers as time goes on. Yeah, maybe. All right. Well, yeah. So, um, the plan right now is that you'll get this. EFAP will probably release on Monday, I think. And then the one that we're going to be making live tomorrow will probably come out the following Saturday and that there won't be another EFAP then because we've already doubled up like twice. So we'll just instead actually have a day where we can do other things in life instead. And the Wednesday that's coming up, we'll still try and spend to do some form of catching up. If you don't see it live, it's because it's offline instead. It'll just be dependent on different factors. And then, yeah, so that I think that will make sense. And then it'll be tight, but as soon as we're done on EFAP, it might have to get cut off early so that I can go on to the hot D discussion portion. But I'm hoping we'll be done by then because that will be two hours ago tomorrow. That's what my limit would be. So we would still, it'll be a seven hour stream at maximum. We should be able to get through the episode right. There is, I feel, a logistical limit on how long we could actually go, right? I'm pretty sure we will be able to back out that far, so we should be okay. They said Christmas havis Halloween pick one. We asked you this when you were on the previous one, right? I think your answer, little platoon, was you're a Christmas person for the sort of events, but the media, you'd be Halloween person. Yeah, Halloween has better films. Christmas is a nicer festival. We should have asked Disbrew. If I can ask him tomorrow, I'll try it when I remember, if I remember. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, and then of course, so other than that, you got your, there's the schedule for the EFAP Halloween movies arc is in the end of the Karen and Final Destination trailer, I'll tell you. And there's going to be a mini that's going to come out in the middle of all of it. I don't know if you remember it, Rags Free, the Now You See Me thing. Yeah, I remember that. That is finally going to go out, because it's at a suitable time. Oh wow. So yeah, you'll be getting this weird 17 minute, I think it is, or 11 minutes mini that's pretty highly edited. It's the most highly edited mini you'll ever see, I think out of all of them, but it was pretty funny and it happened in between recording movies. So you got that to enjoy. And then yeah, we've got just loads of other stuff that we'll be doing as well. So, is Jay Longbone in it? She is. Well, I think she won heads in it. I think that's the one that... Is YMS in it for that? It doesn't matter, you'll find out. So yeah, Fringy Rags, is there anything you guys wanted to mention? No, I don't think so. Man, new video is real close to being done, but I just... I'm still... There's just a few things I want to finish up with it. So I can't give you a date, but it's real close to being done. Is it worth mentioning for them to not set their expectations to a video like Endgame? It's pitiful polemics, right? Pitiful polemics, a little smaller video, so it's probably close to like 10 minutes. It's a topic focus. The big critique, I'm working on it, but it's not... You're not getting it soon. It's... Same goes for my next one as well. As for this one, it's more so just that I'm happy that every time I think that there might be an opportunity to like spend more time on it to get a better joke, or I don't know, just make it better. But I'm seizing each of those opportunities, it just means that it keeps getting delayed. And for this one, right for the end, I've decided to do something that might take way longer than I think it will take, so... But I like the idea, so yeah. It's soon, but I can't say when. Sorry. Is that it then? Is it real? Just making sure everything's been said that was meant to be said if it's good? I think so. I think so. Last one. I think one more Super Chat came in, yeah. What about extraordinary gentleman e-fat movies? If you mean the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? That's been recorded, right? We did record that, or did we watch it casually? I'm sure we did. I'm trying to remove it. It was part of our little arc, yeah, we talked about it. I didn't drink or was on it, too. Yeah. Well, if it was recorded, you'll get it one day, but that's not being worked on right now. So I promise when that'll ever happen. Yeah, I'd rather not promise anything. There'll be more clarity about the nature of a lot of different productions. Once a lot of things are set in motion, the first big milestone for me is going to be the end of December, where I get my new setup. What I'm looking forward to. Now I'm still on my scuffed setup, as one might refer to it. And did you play any Legacy of Cain? No, I did not. Nope, I have not. Not me, though. All right, and with that, I bid you all adieu. We play Sleeps now, and you all can sleep, too, if you want to. We'll be back soon enough to cover the next episode of the Ring of the Lord of the Power of the Rings. How exciting. I can't wait to see what happens next. Bye, everybody. Bye.