 Okay, we're back here live in New York City. We are on the street, on the ground, behind us is Manhattan, behind us is the Hilton. This is big data NYC, a lot of big announcements here. I'm John Furrier, the founder of Silicon Angell, my co-host Dave Vellante and our guest Michael Hiskey from Cognitio. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you again. We see you at all the big shows, IOD, all the big, big value shows where there's big business on the line. You guys have some great technology. I want to get your take on, what's going on, what's going on with the I want to get your take on, before getting some of the market stuff, but what's your take on some of the announcements today? A lot of flurry of announcements. Do you think there's going to be a non-stop show of announcements this week? Thanks John, it's great to be here. This show seems to have more announcements than any of the other shows I've seen, and it seems that it hits at a good cycle, right? It sweeps weak, it's kind of when the ratings happen in television, it also seems to be when people are interested in putting out new announcements before the end of the year, new things are happening. At this show more than ever, what I've seen is the BI vendors are really taking hold of the Hadoop community, and that's a net change that's really interesting. Now it could have good points and bad points. Good points is I think that it makes us more client-focused, it makes us more business-focused, whereas traditionally in the past, the Hadoop community has been very technology-focused and interested in the technology for the technology's sake. Well Dave and I always talk about the analytics piece, being the killer app that we've set in the queue, really two years ago, one kind of poopoo-doll app thing that like email was the killer app for the internet, analytics is the killer app for the big data revolution. But more importantly, there's just so much froth going on in the market, but I got to ask you the question because we were talking briefly about it earlier. Are we living in a bubble? I mean, Wall Street Journal had an article about the bubble really on Twitter and some of the social media companies, but big data, of course, in Wikibon is a 50 trillion dollar market, or whatever they... That was billion, John. No, GE had an extra... We're getting there. I think GE, I think the industrial internet's 50 trillion. That's the government debt. I think the GE, GE, we wish. Actually GE thinks it's over trillions of dollars too. But I got to ask you, in this particular market where Hadoop came from as a tech knowledge, no one's ever heard of four years ago, now to now, the way it's impacting, the way Cloudera seems to be pivoting into the data warehouse and space, BI tools. Is it a bubble? You know, I have to say, I think it is, John. If you look at all the technology and history from the cotton gin through the radio and Linux into Hadoop, this has taken hold faster than anything else in the world. But our goal has got to be, how do we prevent this from becoming a bubble? Because the trend is fine, and the trend has been, the trend is your friend, moving in the right direction. But I think the difference has to be, what are people really getting value out of? So what's the definition of a bubble where the market starts feeding on itself and people react more to rumor than actuality? Our job as a community is to try and find a way to make this not a bubble, but a continuing trend. If you look at the market today, if I look at the big data market as the evolution of let's say the business intelligence, data warehousing and database space, it's bigger now than it ever has been before and the most venture capital and the most marketing dollars and the most funds are being poured into it, but I think the least funds are coming out of it in terms of revenue and real projects. That dichotomy, that ratio is further off than it's ever been in the past and that's when you start getting confusion, that's when you get a bubble and you get vendors talking about other vendors things as opposed to about what are our clients doing with this great stuff we're creating? Yeah, we did a study at Wikibon and one of the real frustrations of customers is that they're just not getting their return yet on big data. They're trying to figure out ways, everybody talks about the skill shortages, but it's really the application of the use cases beyond certainly ad serving, there's certainly in Wall Street, there's some good examples, but across the board that for every dollar spent on big data, the return is not 10, 20, 30, it's maybe a single digit still. Now, bubbles oftentimes understate the market potential, but you go through a lot of pain to get to that market potential. And the last major bubble that we went through in the late 90s, early 2000s, proved maybe to be not a small market opportunity, but a lot of shakeouts. So where do you see the most froth right now? Definitely the most froth is in the edges of the space where we're talking about data sciences. So you talk about the big data hype cycle, I want to talk about the data scientist hype cycle because they're rarer than anything and I don't think that there's a few and the few that are doing things. I think there's a lot of them, but the companies that we talk to, they want to have a handful of data scientists and they want to give them interesting tools so that they can be successful. But the key is, because if you think about the market of clients, they're using data scientists, they have business analysts, they're always going to have a higher number of business analysts than data scientists. So how do I take that handful of data scientists and make them successful in a way that they could bake that into business as usual? So everybody's messaging to the data scientist, everybody's talking to the data scientist, what I think is more important is how are we gonna get the skills the data scientists have and use it for something we can bake into the business. All the things we talk about are very technocentric and when in the end of the day, it has to be about what adds value to the businesses that are using the technology and it's not so much about sentiment analysis, it's not even about dark data, it has very little to do with social media. It has to do with the limitation of BI in past years, there's always been that it only tells me about things inside the four walls of my company. Big data lets me go outside, big data lets me pull in external data that I could do something interesting with and that's really the goal. The goal of big data has to be what can I do that is interesting and a net gain for my business and that's when this will become a trend and not a bubble. So you hear so much about data driven organizations, right, we've all heard that term but companies really aren't organized to be data driven. I think when you talk to practitioners, business people, everybody's data driven, I don't know anybody who says, I don't look at the data, I just go gut feel. Nobody does that. I like to shoot from the hip. But the reality is, and of course gut feel is still pretty good if you got that gut feel DNA but everybody looks at data. The issue that I see, I wonder if you can comment on this is that organizations are not organized, they don't have processes around being data driven, they don't have ways to bring together external data sets, they don't have a way to easily analyze them, they don't have a way to put them in the hands of business users who can make decisions closer to the customer. There's still that traditional BI line up, let's build a data model and wait. I think that's exactly right and it's the same old problem we've had for years. People don't know what they don't know. So they're presented with solutions and alternatives but what I've seen a lot of clients create before we've spoken to them about what they could do with predictive analytics and how they can use more advanced algorithms in their business is they came up with a hypothesis and then built a system to prove that hypothesis. And as you could tell, that's gonna give them the same old answers over and over again. So to your point, I think they are still shooting from the hip, they're just getting data to support that hip shot that they're already doing. What we're trying to find with our clients is we're trying to show them what they could do if they use an in-memory platform so that they can make decisions in real time. So they could do a train of thought analysis. Now that kind of turns thrown around a lot and it really doesn't mean anything to a lot of people. But what you have to think about is how can I get a business analyst, a set of interesting stuff that they can work through in real time and then bring that back to the business? Because in the end of the day, the people who have that contextual awareness will understand what they can do with it. Other than that, it's just been data for data's sake and that's why the business intelligence market has plateaued. Certainly the market's growing in terms of people buying more tools and what they could do with it. But what you- A lot of maintenance going on there. A lot of maintenance. But what you can do with your BI tool, the visualizations can continue to get better and better. But it's plateaued in terms of functionality and now you have to go and do advanced math. Now the real work starts. Well, that comment you made about what I would call data bias, right? I'm going to put forth the hypothesis. I'm going to go find data that supports that. That's such a common example. We did a Cube gig at MIT recently this summer. Some smart people there. Some smart people, they put forth the premise that look, organizations need a chief data officer and it should be separate from the IT function. It was sort of an interesting premise and we've been testing that with a lot of organizations and there's a lot of headwind there. People say, well, no, that's the job of the CIO or you really don't need a CDO, maybe in some industries. But it's really about information quality. What are you seeing, again, organizationally in terms of companies that are doing the right things in terms of becoming data driven? What do you see there? You know, that's a great question. I had a long conversation with Mark Ruskino who I think is probably the father of the chief data officer over at Gartner. He's talked about that a lot in his work and the real interesting part of that is that it needs to be a digital business executive in that order. So it can't sit in the CIO's office regardless of how, you know, business school savvy the CIO's have gotten and it can't sit in the technology office because it's still always going to be about speeds and feeds. But the area that's really excelled is in the financial markets and a lot of that is because they're concerned about privacy and they've backed into what you're doing with the government. So we've worked with some clients to make sure that a HIPAA approved solution is available and what we found with them is that they're more interested in having the HIPAA approval in place, having the data privacy, but they're more interested in what can they provide back to their patients. Everybody's trying to be more patient centric but so far that's been a lot of words. We're gonna be a more patient centric organization. Some of our clients that are actually doing that are pulling in data from all different sources and they find out interesting things in terms of how the clients pay, what the patients would like to do, et cetera. And they're finding out answers to those things in real time that they could never do in the past. And some of those companies are actually quite small. I don't want you to think this is all, you know, Anthem and the largest blue crosses in the world. Some of them are actually quite small organizations that are providing an analytical information service to the healthcare industry and data is in the DNA of their business. A lot of them are startups, a lot of them are funded by some other project, but all of them are trying to take some problem that they know exists, some challenge and apply data to it. And I think to those people, the market is owned. Well, we're talking about bubble before and one of the other signs of a bubble is disruption. And we think where the biggest disruption is is not necessarily in the IT space but it's in the practitioner space, the people who apply big data technologies, disrupting, you know, small guys, disrupting large healthcare organizations. Do you buy that premise? Well, first of all, I love that. Being a small company like we are, I love to hear about the small companies upsetting the big guys. You know, I spent 10 years at IBM and now I'm at a small startup like atmosphere and that gives me a lot of fun, a lot of drive. But those companies have always been the holders of the information, holders of the innovation rather. And that innovation happens in small groups. Since the ancient Roman time, innovation happens in small groups of people that are able to make decisions quickly and act in real time. So those organizations are really at the cutting edge and we're trying to provide a platform for them to do that that they could use in the cloud where they could use some advanced technology just for this reason. Mike, I got to ask you, since you brought up the innovation question, obviously it's packed house across the street there at the Strata conference. I mean, literally I was just looking at some photos, Dave, it's like cattle car. It is tied in there. And it's tough to get a lot of noise. It keeps a lot of, you know, a lot of tightness there. But there's a lot of startups in there. But some are saying that this just, you got to be fully funded. There's a series A crunch in the venture community. It's a weird market for startups because you can get started at very low cost, but now the threshold for essentially that series A or B round to grow is significant. And this market being complex in the enterprise is also a challenge. So what's your take on the startup, the capital markets? Because the innovation still is early. We still got some ways to go, but what's your take on the startup VC scene, venture capital or just the capital markets in general? The company seemed to be copying each other, right? So the startups are doing something interesting. And if you could make, you know, Andreessen or one of the other big firms believe you're doing something interesting, you're able to grow with that. And that's a lot of firms copying each other. But it's kind of like copying Elvis. Why do people when they impersonate Elvis impersonate the old fat Elvis instead of the young cool Elvis? What they haven't found in all cases is what's the essence of what makes that interesting? What's the coolness factor? Because the big picture of we're a big data analytics company is necessary, but not sufficient. So there's a lot of money out there in the marketplace. There's a lot of great ideas. There's a lot of really smart people from MIT and other firms, other educational institutions that have been brought into the market. And I love the stuff that they're doing. But to really grow, it's got to be the core innovation. Where is that essence, that mark that's going to make it run? And there's so many companies out there that have dozens of million in the bank that are pouring money into this market. It certainly makes the Stratoconference very expensive to be a sponsor of. But are they really changing how businesses are using big data? Or are they just being the old fat Elvis and copying what other companies have done? It's hard to copy the original Elvis. I mean, it's one, you've got to be young. Oh, this was cool, 56. I didn't think it would move. That's the haircut. At least no three chords, right? Yeah. The hip movement. I knew a lot about it was the hip movement. Yeah, I mean, the hip movement is key. So I mean, again, that is the case here. But again, the stakes are high. So talk about, again, your view on the market opportunity. I mean, there are a lot of dollars available. What's your take on the relative total available market with TAM? There is. This is the year that I think the market's really going to start to capitalize on that. So some of the surveys I've read have said 8% of companies have a Hadoop cluster in production. I think this next rolling 12 months is when that's going to really shoot out. So what I'm interested in is the $50 billion, Wikibon market. What I'm interested in is what percentage of that is going to get monetized in the next 12 months? And I think this next 12 months versus the last 12 months is going to see a huge growth in that. Well, we really appreciate you coming on the queue and sharing your insight. We saw you at the IBM event. Again, great start-up, great company growth there. Thanks for participating in our crowd chat. I think you got one of the crowd captain awards for our new crowd chat open source. You're very social. Crowd source, original content. Thank you for your contribution. You've been a great, great contributor. They appreciate it. Thanks. Glad to have it. We're here live inside the queue. We are at Big Data NYC, the hashtag Big Data NYC. A lot of big announcements. Cloudera, Hortonworks, Wendisco, MapR, Hognitio, Platfora, HP, Splunk, Microsoft, you name it. All the actions are happening. All new companies, clear story. We're here inside the cube, right across the street from the Hilton Stratoconference and Duke World. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break.