 There are nine elders present, 10, Marcus is coming. Would everyone please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. To the republic which stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. All right, we'll move on to public forum. We have one person for public forum. John Doulson, you wanna come up? My name's John Doulson, I live at 409 New York Avenue. Moved here in 95 and lived at 324 Wisconsin Avenue. I like the area so much, I was renting at the time, so we bought in the Ellis District. And we've noticed the problem of animals getting into garbage since the week we moved here. And I think it's more prevalent along the lake front with the seagulls and garbage is strewn about. I've shared pictures to Mary Lynn and the mayor and others throughout the years. And you can see it yourself when you drive around. One of the problems is that in this area, there are a lot of tenants. And if the garbage is picked through by animals, the next day the renters aren't cleaning up the curb. If you own in this area, obviously the next day or two after garbage day, and if your garbage is picked through, you go through and clean up the mess. And sometimes it's a huge mess. Raccoons get in there, if your shift worker and you're putting your garbage out the day prior, you can do it after five o'clock the day prior. Unfortunately, a lot of them don't abide by that and they put it out three or four in the afternoon and add a couple hours. But through the night, raccoons get it, birds get at it, cats, dogs, whatever. These are long overdue. Our neighboring communities have these garbage canisters. If we want tourism to grow in this area, obviously with our south pier and the marina, we want tourists. But if there's garbage always blown around the streets and you're gonna see more of it now, all the snow melted and there's still garbage in the grass between the sidewalk and the curb, the street sweeper can't get up there. A lot of people haven't gotten out and started raking their lawns yet. But that bulk of that garbage comes from our lack of canisters on garbage day. So that's all I have. And I hope you vote to instill these. There's gonna be cost with that, but we can absorb it either as, we absorb it when you redo our sidewalks in front of our homes or curb and gutter, build it in our tax bill, whatever. But it's a fee or whatever you term it that I'm in favor of because it's going to make Sheboygan better. So thank you for your time. Thank you. Are there any other members from the public wishing to speak? All right, seeing none. We'll move on to 2.1, approval from the minutes from January 14th, 2019 meeting. There's been a motion by Elder Wolf to approve in a second. Any discussion on the minutes from our last meeting? Seeing none. All those in favor, please stay die to approve our minutes. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. All right. Well, we'll jump into items for discussion and we'll turn it over to the gentleman from Public Works. Well, thank you, chairman. David Bebel, director of Public Works with the city of Sheboygan. And I have with me this evening, Jason Blasio, our streets superintendent of streets and sanitation superintendent. We're gonna give you a presentation of kind of where we've come from in the past with our garbage program, some of the challenges that we have and what we're proposing to move forward for the future. So with that, I'm gonna let Jason kind of lead the discussion and we're gonna take team at tonight. And I think the chairman asked if, you know, during the presentation, if you have a question just raise your hand so then we can answer it during the presentation, not that we have to go back after later and backtrack in other words, if that's all right. Thank you. Good evening. Again, my name is Jason with streets and sanitation. So we've been cleaning out our offices and I found a brochure that we had from probably the 1950s when we changed to single can for burnable refuels and non-burnable refuels. So we've been going through changes in sanitation collection for quite some time. So this is just the latest and the newest. So our current trucks are dead to their life and we're going to need to replace these trucks. Regardless if we move to an automated collection system or if we continue collecting manually, manual collection, we're one of two people, one of two communities that are still collecting recyclables and bagged. All the other communities within the state are using a cart to pick up the recycling. So we're looking to convert to an automated cart base for the residential curbside collection and most important to me it improves the worker safety. We'll talk a little bit about the, a lot about the worker safety and the job satisfaction and the convenience for the residents along with the aesthetics. So we have a director Bebel, we have Don and Melissa and Heather at the front. They take the phone calls. We averaged in January and February about 500 calls each month with questions on garbage collection. Myself, David Groves is the streets and sanitation supervisor. He sets the schedule. A lot of the calls that come in, he gets handled and Bruce Matt Storf is the sanitation lead man. He's the one that actually goes out and deals with problems that arise and deals with the constituents with any problems. So we collect about 11,000 tons of garbage and about 3,500 tons of recycling yearly. So material recovery rate is about 24%. So we're diverting 24% from the landfill. That's an underperforming number. When communities move to cart base, they can see between a 10 and 30% increase into those recyclable numbers. This was a picture of one of our sanitation workers took. We've had a couple of people stuck with needles. This is just one of the things they come across with. Unfortunately, in the community, we're coming across more and more sharps that are not being disposed properly. So the workers compensation claims, they lead the lost time, backs, slip trips, falls, spraying ankles, getting in and out of the trucks and then being exposed to these sharps and communal diseases with the current way that we're collecting garbage. So why automated? They have some advantages to move to an automated. Austin, the city of Kenosha are the only two that are bagging our garbages right now. So when we do manually collect, we're in and out of the truck. We're walking in the snow and the ice. We're dealing with the snow piles and we're getting down and picking up the garbage and the recycling as we go. So this is just an example. I know a lot of people, the garbage is there when you put it out in the morning and the garbage is gone when you get home. So you might not have a realistic idea of how we are collecting the garbage. This guy was a great recycler. He was one of our, one bag of garbage, six bags of bottles. That's an outlier. So we're dealing with alleys that aren't plowds. We have trips and falls. We're getting on and off the back of the truck. Lots of times the bags are over stuff. They break open when we pick them up. Sometimes the animals get into them as they're eluding. So this one right here, it was overstuffed. He's picking it up. Now he's picking up the garbage by hand. This is how you get stuck with a sharp. Right now we do have a limit on the number of bags that you put out. So as you see, there's a lot more garbage than there is recycling. When you move to a cart-based system, you have limited amount of real estate. So it forces you to move into a recycling because you're going to need to recycle to keep your garbage in your bag space. Going on to the next one who I think we have the idea here. So this is Calumet. This is another safety hazard, or not Calumet for itself. It's 14th at this point. So we're collecting on a busy street. I'm waiting for the cars to go by. Currently our ordinances call for us to shovel out a pile so we don't have to climb. This is one of our workers, John Burkhart. He came today. He came to the last meeting also. So you see the kind of stuff that we're dealing with climbing up and down the banks and the cars going by. So it really does put our employees at risk collecting garbage manually. Well, they should have been shoveling out all summer or all winter and keeping a spot. There could be other areas they can collect on this end. But technically we're not supposed to, our employees aren't supposed to be climbing up the snow banks. What's that? The driveway. So the material, Wisconsin material recovery facilities are banning bags. So I went down to waste management. They have our current contract. The way the recycling works is they dump it onto a floor and they load it into conveyor belt. And everything that comes from the city of Sheboygan and the city of Kenosha has to manually be ripped open. A lot of our recyclables are not being recycled because these workers, it's going on the conveyor belt really fast. They're giving it one rip and they're shaking it out in the conveyor belt and there's a shaft that goes down into a dumpster and they're dumping out the recyclables and they're throwing the bags down. If the bags get missed in the spot, they get into the different sorting systems and those bags get tangled up and the machine stops and it slows down their production and it's dangerous. They have to lock everything out, sometimes climb into the machinery to remove the bags. So all the material recycling facilities in the state of Wisconsin are, they do not want recyclables collected in bags for that reason. Some articles that, I know the New York Times article, there was an article in the Sheboygan Press, waste management starting to start refining and charging more for communities. They have a lot of contamination in these bags because it really slows down their process. It's really neat going to see it. They use fiber optics with the plastic, with shooting rays of light and then they'll have clear plastic, have a shot of air, move it out. It's for multicolored plastic. They'll use weight for the cardboard to go up and they'll even using an artificial intelligence where it's scanning missed cans and metal and a suction going down and getting it out of the plastic. So it is a pretty neat facility. They've invested a lot of money into the recycling and the removing of the paper and the plastic. So there are advantages to the carts, again, worker health, worker safety, cleaner collection, increased recycling. And one thing that we get a lot of phone calls and complaints from the citizens is the cost of buying the blue bags. Currently I believe Walmart's the only retailer that's selling the blue bags and they come in a pack of 400, which a lot of people are complaining because they don't need 400 at a time. So that is, it seems kind of trivial, but it is a complaint that we get quite a bit. So these are the gentlemen that are out every day picking up the garbage. According to the center disease controls, picking up garbage is one of the most dangerous municipal jobs and one of the most dangerous jobs in the private industry. So in 2018, in the first 10 days of, there were seven sanitation workers that were killed. The city of Racine had a sanitation worker killed in 2017, working in the streets dangerous. The city of Milwaukee just lost the individual doing potholes, which you have to be out of the truck to do that job, moving to an automated, you're eliminating that person from being outside the truck. Spraying, strains, overexertion, injuries, all happened from getting in and off the truck and the awkward positions for bending over and picking up the trash and the garbage and recycling. So last year we did have one individual stuck with a needle. We had an individual slip off a truck that costs $53,000 in workman's compensation. We are lucky on the slips and the ice and the lower back strains, but those could be more, lots of times there's broken glass in the bags that protrude and when you're picking them up, they catch, mainly it's the guys' shins that get caught in the forearms sometimes, so getting cut is also happens quite frequently. Keeps a cleaner collection, the lids keeps the materials contained, more room for recyclables. It's easier to roll the one bin out and make multiple trips with the bags. It protects against the birds and the rodents and it improves the look of the neighborhoods. So this is current collection. So this is 25th Street in between Superior and Colon Memorial Drive, I stopped. So you look down the road, you can see all the garbage piled out and then the seagulls, as you notice, when they start to pull it out, the cars pretty much don't even phase the wildlife anymore. They're not getting scared. So I tried to find some other communities that collect. This is an alley collection in City of Milwaukee similar to the collection that two individuals were doing in the alley with the snow and the ice. Similar overhead wires, trees, there's all things that we'll have to deal with also on alleys. You notice when the arm collects, it pulls it back and when it tips, it's very low. It's not like your front end system where it's picking up a dumpster and raising it high over it. It's nice and tight next to the side of the vehicle. It's got a short reach and it dumps it right in. So that's one of the advantages again, is that they've designed these vehicles to actually pick up in these tight areas such as alleys. First stop compared to the cart versus the guy having to get out and throw it in. So the cycle time on the arm is between 15 and 20 seconds. As you saw in the video, our guys are really efficient. But then you come across some really big ones where it's all spread out, that may stop them. Which we would have to do is right now everything is based on tonnage. So we'd have to reroute the stops based on the number of stops to get it around 900 stops. So some of the routes would change on the borders to equalize. Kurt. For instance with that is when we have a stop, we do it by resident, but that resident will, let's say it's a two family, it's all in one pile. Now you're gonna have multiple carts at that one stop. So we have to balance it out. So depending upon if there's a lot of multi-family, it may have some of the routes change in those areas. Again, another street that I thought was representative to the city of Sheboygan. This is an older part of Wauwatosa, Narrow Street. With the snow as well, I mean, if the snow banks. So this driver is actually placing the carts back out of the public right away. This one he tries to get over onto the sidewalk but he accidentally topples it. So this was a garbage and recycling week. He's just picking up, I believe the yellow lids I think that's recycling for Wauwatosa. So carts use an automated systems. They typically increase recycling according to the recycling partnership of America between 10 and 30% from leaving bags and going to a cart-based system. So we had a hired Fauth analysis to help us with this. They came up with a couple different options for us. Option one is to maintain the current system. The 6040 split rear load, two-person crew, manually loading, garbage and recycling would be collected weekly. The advantages, it's already in place. There's no transition to a new system. Citizens are already familiar with the process. It's the easiest option. Advantages, it's a left safe method of collecting solid waste and recyclables. Most prone collection method to creating litter least appealing aesthetically requires two employees. Our current program is under performing with the recycling and the recycling bags is an added expense for residents. And as I stated earlier, the material recycling facilities are banning the bags. If we go out to RFP or a bid to collect, to tip, excuse me, to tip, there was gonna be a surcharge on that. Those waste is gonna charge us more because there's gonna be more time involved with them ripping them off. But also I found out after the fact that other counties wanted to bid on our recycling last time that waste management won the bid, but they did not due to the fact that our garbage is recyclable or our garbage is bagged. And those counties that had owned their mercs didn't wanna bid on ours because they didn't wanna deal with the bags. So it's gonna limit who bids for our tipping on the recyclables. Option two would be a city owned trucks and carts, single compartment automated side loading trucks, one person fully automated with carts, weekly collection for garbage, bi-weekly collection for recyclables. We'd look to implement sometime in May or June of 2020. Advantages, again, most important to me is to work our health and safety can reduce the workers' compensation costs. The convenience, due to the standardized carts, it's cleaner collection, increase in recycling, less wildlife interference, reduce exposures to communal diseases for our employees, and a residential satisfaction. Disadvantage, this is a higher truck capital and maintenance cost, the cart capital and maintenance cost of the carts, the storage of the carts. And then we're gonna have to go through and look at the routing and make sure I'll overhead obstacles and trees and alleys and narrow residential streets. So how would we implement it? We'd have four daily garbage routes and two daily recyclable routes. So this is the question that I get the most. So the four garbage trucks, we'll just say route one, two and three and four would go out. And then on one week, routes one and two would get their recycling picked up. The next week's route three and four would get the recycling picked up. A lot of the municipalities, they call it an A-week and a B-week. And you work with your GIS where you type in your address and it tells you what day is your collection and whether you're an A-week and a B-week. And then you go to a map and it shows which weeks they're collected. We would need to purchase seven trucks. That would be one automated truck. The six would be used daily with a budget cost of around $2 million. Thank you, Chairman. Are we gonna get into how we're gonna finance both the garbage trucks and the carts later? Yeah. Very good. Thank you. And the carts are gonna cost just as much or a little bit more than the actual trucks. Between $55 and $57 a cart we'll need about 37,000 carts. So we've been demoing and looking at trucks. We had a manufacturer come in, spend some time with our workers. So the seven trucks we're looking at is a new ways, the brand name, looking to pay for it out of the Motor Vehicle Fund. It's part of the strategic plan. Focus area include the quality of life we feel for public facilities and neighborhood revitalization. So I know a lot of you don't have the privilege to be in a realm, recycle garbage trucks like I do. So we took a video, took a walk around it. They're only this clean and pretty once. They are a little bigger than our current trucks. So the manufacturer came, all of our employees got to get inside and practice with the arm as questions. Then because I thought people would be interested, I put the camera actually on the cart. So I'm watching it on my phone. That's why I'm looking at my phone there. I'm watching the live feed of the video. But the cart goes in to the hopper and then there's a blade that will push that material into the back. So thank you, John. So John was in the, sorry, John was in the truck with the manufacturers seeing how it works. So if there is a large amount of contamination, we can note it so that we know the lead man or I or supervisor can come back and put a oops tag, they call it, you made a mistake. And then if it continues, then we can work within the ordinance as to not pick it up and cite the individual. So the garbage and recycling carts. The cost of the carts would be included in the 2020 capital improvement designated in the capital fund. So 37,000 carts, like I said, they range between 51 and $55. I've been working with the recycling partnership of America. Right now they have a grant for up to $7 per recycling cart. I asked if they'd give me a grant for the garbage carts, they said no. And then we would, there's some other things we'd be eligible for. They have a coastal grant being on the Great Lakes. So I'd be able to apply for additional funds for education and recycling containers for public facilities. So there's 64 gallon and 96-gallon carts. They have a similar footprint. We've got 95, 96 gallon and then a 64 gallon. Talking with cart manufacturers and the recycling partnership, they recommend everybody starts out with a 95 gallon cart and they try it out and see how it works. And then if you need to, then you substitute with the 65 gallon. The reason for that is is people automatically think they want a 65 gallon and you end up like the city of West Des Moines who has 1,064 gallon carts that are 15 years old sitting in the public works yard because everyone ordered them. They got them, decided they wanted the bigger one and then they swapped out. The majority of the people I believe are gonna want a 95 gallon. So if you give everyone a 95 gallon and you substitute out with the 64, at least the 95 one would be a stock and would be able to go out if there is damage. The manufacturer we're looking at is the only one that has a 12 year warranty on the body, 10 years on the lids and the wheels. I'd recommend that you buy the same color body and then you buy different color lids for garbage and recycling. That way you don't have to stock two different colors of bodies, just stock two different colors of lid. Someone's garbage lid breaks and you bring them a garbage lid. If their body breaks and you just have one body and you don't have to have a black body or a green body or whatever colors that we decide. This is Toder that we've been looking at with their manufacturing, their rotary mold. So they were a Rubbermaid company. So there's Rubbermaid tubs and then Sterilite which is the harder plastic. This would be like a Rubbermaid tub. The other major manufacturer is a little more brittle. It's like the Sterilite tub. They have a tenure warranty. Because of the manufacturing process with this, this is one of the carts where you can use recyclable material and it doesn't necessarily affect the quality or the warranty. So it's a 12 year warranty on the body whether it's 50% recycling down to no recycling or some of the other manufacturers we get in the higher recycling content and then the quality isn't there in the warranty. So as we talked earlier, basically our routes are broken down by structures. There's 15,000, I have a hard time reading, about 15,000 structures in the city, but 18,397 residents. That's due to the single family versus duplex, three family and a four family. So we would have to change our routes because of the time it takes for the arm to go in and out to route them based on household versus structure. We've already identified about 387 stops. It would be a challenge for the new trucks. A lot of it's doing the backing down an alley with one individual and then collecting one side and then pulling out, then pulling in and then backing out on coming traffic. There's probably gonna be a few more stops that we're gonna add to this, but the vast majority of them are gonna be able to be picked up from the curb side or from the alley with the automated arm. So we have a couple of different ways that we can address these problem areas. One is called semi-automated collection and that's where you put a flipper on the back and the worker does move the cart to the back, flips the garbage in, and then puts the cart off to the side and moves on. The other way we can do it is two individuals could take the spare truck out so you have a spotter or they park the truck and they move all the cans to it and dump them in in some of those tight areas. Long term, parks is collected manually. We have a smaller park truck. I think when that park truck is at the end of its life, we look at buying a smaller automated truck that can get into those alleys and do a three point turn and go up and down and then that truck would be used for the, it's probably gonna be, it's 380 stops now, I'd say probably 500 weekly stops and then that truck would be used for picking up park garbage and for some of these challenging spots when that truck, when that park truck's at the end of its useful life. So I admit that there are some areas that are gonna be challenging but I think we'll be able to handle it with 18,000 stops. Three to 500 isn't a large amount to deal with on a weekly basis. Option three would be to contract and then it would be pretty much similar to the option two, one person. Talking with consultants, they recommend that the city still purchase the carts and the reason for that is, is if you change vendors and they own the carts, then you're gonna have to manage them picking up their carts and with the new contractor delivering the new carts where we own the carts, we own that process and we have a little bit more control over it. Some of the risks of private, after the first five year term, lots of times you're seeing the competitive price and it goes up quite a bit. When the cities get rid of their employees and the equipment, it's hard for them to get back into it. You also go from a service, managing a service to overseeing a contract. So today our garbage men tagged the resident, she had paint out and it wasn't done properly, the garbage men tagged it, left it there and the lead men gets involved, he goes, explains what she did wrong and he ends up taking it and actually went into her basement and took like six bags of the paint, which normally we don't do and I can tell you a contractor isn't gonna go that far and do that. Lots of times we get the calls, we'll put a helper truck out in Clement weather where we have mandatory safety meetings. So instead of the four trucks, we'll put a helper truck out and that truck will get 25% of all the other routes. So your garbage is normally, your garbage guy is usually there at 11 o'clock every day so you don't put your garbage out to 1030. There's a helper truck and your garbage man comes by at nine o'clock. We get the phone call, he didn't pick mine up, we missed it. We all know that we did not pick the one up but we go back to make you guys look good and we go back and we pick it up and that's the kind of service you do get with the city provided garbage collection. Kohler is the most recent contract that went out in our area. They came back at $11.70 for garbage and recycling. So that's guaranteed for the first one to two years and then it will go up in years three to five with the CPI and then they have surcharges for fuel and other things that can add to cost of collection. So we had option one, which was keep going, option two would be for us to continue or to get into the automated side loading collection with carts and bins and option three would be to contract it out. So the Fauth analysis, which is hard to read in here was about $9.08 to continue going on. $9.43 for us to go in with bi-weekly collection for the recycling and weekly collection for the garbage and then option three, $10.41 was based on 2018 data talking with a local hauler. It wasn't a bid or wasn't a competitive bid prices. So they basically came out down to $6 per household to pick up and then adding the cart cost on to it. And that's how they got to the $10.41. So yep. Chairman, Jason, something that you and I talked about just so we understand is that this bid for the contractor included picking up the recycling every week where we're proposing picking it up every other week. So there might be a slight difference in the $10.41 because of the added service. There could be, you look at the Kohler one, which is the most recent and that's at $11. Talking with the consultants, he doesn't think the $6, they could do it any lower than that. And like I said earlier, a lot of these manufacturers or excuse me, they're not manufacturers hauling will come in at a low price. And then after your end is when the price increased dramatically. Right now, waste is our tipping. They do a lot of commercial pickup. They do not do a lot of residential pickup in the city. Advanced is the main one and they're pretty much the only player. When you get into Harder's is in the western part of the state, Johns is more southeastern Wisconsin and Waste Republic and has not moved up into this area very much either. So we're pretty much going to be relying on one hauler in the Schwoigen area. So if we went forth, we'd purchase the trucks, we'll roll out an inflammation plan in 2019. In January of 2020, we would purchase the carts and then we would start in May. I did talk with actually waste management. They did recommend that you start in June and not May. They said it's sometimes when you start in between Memorial Day and the, or excuse me, July is when they recommend the first full month without a holiday. I'm screwing that up, I'm sorry. June 1st, they said wait till after Memorial Day so you have a full month of June before the fourth of July holiday. So lots of times if you start in early May and then you have a holiday, people are learning the new schedule and everything gets shifted by a day. So the trucks do take about nine to 10 months. So that's why we buy the trucks this year. The carts take six to eight week lead time. So you'd be able to purchase the carts in January of 2020 and have them here in enough time. So the option costing again. So funding for the garbage and the recycling carts, we can borrow at about a 3% 10 year. It's $171,000 in finance charges. No upfront cost to the citizens. You pay it back over 10 years. Disadvantages, it impacts the bond rating. The tax increase for all the citizens not participating in the service, such as small businesses and apartment complexes more than four units. And it will limit other projects by limiting the money available for other public works projects. Recycling fee option, a $4 a month recycling fee to citizens would come out to about $833,000 annually. A minimal cost. It doesn't add to the borrowing debt. It doesn't impact the bond rating. It increases the city operation capacity. The disadvantage, additional monthly fee and a two and a half year payback. So the Wisconsin Journal, Sentinel went through and listed a lot of the Southeastern Wisconsin garbage and recycling fees. If you combine the $5 fee with the $4 fee, we'd come out to $108. We'd be on the lower end of the monthly fees. We also look at all those fees and as the numbers go up, there's not any more public service. It's all private as those fees go up. The average was 170 when you averaged out all those communities of annual fee for garbage and recycling. So the department, the city puts out a survey too. I forgot to mention asking for feedback from the citizens. In the last two years, there's been quite a few responses from the citizens asking for carts. So both the citizens and department, public works believe that Shiboyan should move away from manually collection and move to a cart-based system. The department recommends implementing the $4 monthly household fee. Yes, yeah, questions or? Chairman, Darrell, I had some discussions with you a few days ago about your funding options for both the carts and the trucks. And I believe you told me you were looking into a lease program on the carts along with the grant funds that Jason talked about. Have you got any more information on that? And you were saying something about we would get a more favorable rate because of being a municipality? Yes, what you've identified is correct. I think Jason alluded to the fact that the capitalized costs associated with the trucks because the city anticipated this discussion point. I think five of the trucks are included in the 2019 budget. We would look toward the fund balance within the motor vehicle fund for the remaining number of trucks, again, seven, which includes one spare. For the carts themselves, worked with the finance director, Halverson, worked with Mr. Bebel and others, looking at what other funds within the city we could tap as an advance to pay for the capital costs associated with the carts. The concern, of course, is that as we go through our 2019 and 2020 borrowing, even though we have additional funds available in our general fund and even our debt service fund, both of those funds are looked at by Moody's when the city goes out for our borrowing. So if we were to take a sizable amount, in addition to the large amount that was transferred in 2018 for the city hall project, my concern is that could harm or negatively affect our very good credit rating. So Jason did mention to the cart manufacturer that we were looking at all options to unwrite the costs, the capital costs of the carts. The companies that manufacture carts do work with leasing or investment companies and was able to get a couple different proposals as you alluded to, because we're a public entity, they're able to take advantage that it is a public intended use, the manufacturer and ultimate use of the carts. And so we're able to take advantage with roughly a 4% interest rate if we're looking at a lease period of 10 years. So 10 years and then we would purchase the carts for a dollar or 50 cents, something nominal. So the calculations that Jason put together and presented to the public works committee, the interest rate is a little bit higher. I think he had 3% versus 4% that he was using on his calculations, but the $4 would be close to covering the actual cost. The advantage of going the leasing route is that we would not have to report that as debt to Moody's. So it would not appear as if it's an additional $2 million of outstanding debt. So again, every little bit helps as it pertains to trying to retain our again, very favorable credit rating. Just to follow up, if I may, and then on the garbage trucks, the plan for that is to take that out of the, take the majority of that out of the motor vehicle. Is that correct? Yes, as part of the analysis performed by city staff, we asked them to go through the process of looking at like a five year projection. So again, tapping the fund balance within the motor vehicle fund, also looking at possibly reducing the amount of help that fund receives on the last, I think three or four years, it's been roughly a million dollars that you've allowed. Million dollars of annual new issue debt to help pay for some of the more significant needs and priorities that public works have placed on those vehicles, but starting as early as next year, reduce it to as low as a quarter of a million dollars. Again, Mr. Bebo and staff looked at those projections, including an increase in the charges for services to the different departments. I may get this wrong. I think it's been 15 years since there's been an increase in the actual charges. Again, this includes staffing costs. So the hope is to sort of right size that budget, reduce the overall debt that we incur and in essence transfer this fund. But we think even with the use of fund balance for the remaining purchase of the necessary vehicles for this project, it would be a sustainable financial plan for the Motor Vehicles Fund. So we currently have about roughly the two million dollars in the Motor Vehicle Fund. For 2019, roughly 1.1 million, 1.2, excuse me, 1.2 million is already slated to be included as borrowed funds. We will receive some revenues from trading in our existing trucks, roughly 150 to 275. So that will help. And again, the remaining, we would tap that fund balance for the remaining capitalized costs of these seven new trucks. So in your opinion, Darrell, you're happy with the financing structure we've come up with for both the carts and the trucks? Yes, I am. Thank you. Todd? Thank you, Chair. I apologize for my voice. So I'll try to keep it real short, but we know better. I want to compliment everybody on a really good job. Public Works has been working on this for quite a few years. Again, we did bring in the fourth group and did a study which gave Public Works a lot of direction and gave us a lot of information. There's only certain projects that come to a city of municipality that touch everybody in some way, shape, or form, and this is one of them. I know as an older for many years that this is one of them that has had a positive effect that our constituents continue to ask, when is this going to get implemented and when are we going to do it? So I agree as it was discussed in the very beginning, even though there is a cost, the benefits definitely outweigh what that's going to be and it's going to be a learning curve. I think the Public Works has done a great job also working with Darryl and his team on financing options, looking at leasing versus purchasing versus outsourcing and doing what we're doing today is in my opinion, not an option. We've had the best of all areas. We have such a great team that make it very difficult for us to look at some of the new changes, but as far as safety and quality and moving forward, we really need to get to an automated process. So in my opinion, I recommend this and I think that the city needs to move forward on this and the sooner the better. Thank you. I also, my two years on the council have heard nothing but complaints about current garbage pickup situation and I'm looking forward to this type of a system which certainly is necessary. The Seagulls do get out to the far west side of town too and we see them every Tuesday when they arrive. There are a number of issues concerning placement of carts, concerning lost carts and how do we charge people for them and those kinds of things. I'm assuming that Public Works will continue to work on those issues if we do decide to go forward or if you've already done some planning and some of those things. Yeah, yes and we have a full implementation plan as part of probably the next big initiative that we're gonna be working on once we get a decision and if this is the direction we want ahead, that's gonna be what we're gonna be working on is information education program as Alderman Wolfe mentioned, this affects everyone in the community so we really need to get the message right and we need to get that out to everybody. So we're gonna be looking at multiple different ways, neighborhood meetings with the neighborhood associations, outreaching with some of the rental properties and the landlord associations as well as just the residents themselves and giving that type of information, where to place the cart, what day you're going to do it and so forth. Yeah, that will be a big program that will be forthcoming. Anyone have any other questions for Public Works, Mary-Lynn? Just a question, are we saving any labor costs? Well, obviously not half, but. There is some labor costs that is saving so we're going from eight operators to six operators and what the proposal is is that we would reduce the staff through attrition or through retirements and looking at our budgets by 2020, we anticipate to have those openings available just would not be backfilled with additional personnel. So anyone else, Jim? Chairman, I know I'm anticipating phone calls from my constituents when this program is rolled out in the Sheboygan Press and I guess the question that I'm going to get is we already have the $5 garbage fee per month. Why are you gonna be charging me another $4 a month? How would you suggest I answer that? I think we'll be developing a position paper on that definitely and get all that type of information but one of the benefits of the fee is that now we have the carts, that's an added cost so we have to pay for it one way. So one way was, well, we could just send you a bill for the cart which you know it's gonna be about $100 per resident or and that doesn't even include like we were talking some of the capital costs of the truck replacement and so forth. So the fee structure, kind of what it does is it kind of also mirrors what we're doing for motor vehicles that it's starting to become like an enterprise fund where the direct cost of the program will be attributable to the program. So the $4 fee will go for the recycling carts as well as the two recycling trucks and will be tracked in the budget as such. And then if I could just follow up on that, the $4 fee, how long do you anticipate it'll be $4? Is it gonna go down? Is it gonna go up? And what's gonna be the contributing factor to maybe going up or down? We have a contract that's due for our transfer and tipping that ends this year. So that will be a five year contract again. So depending upon that contract and we're anticipating probably right as of today recycling is free to the city. So in other words, a ton of recyclables costs $0. The trend in the industry is there's now gonna be a fee for recyclables. Partly because of the contamination issue as well as now with the markets in China not buying much of the recyclable material, the markets just aren't there. So based on that contract, the opportunity would be is when that five years expires and we go out for a re-up or another contract or RFP and if those costs would raise significantly then that would mirror probably the opportunity then with the recycling or garbage fee, we'd have to look at it and say, okay, these are what the bids are. We may have to increase that at that point. Thanks. All right, anyone else, Marilyn? I do intend to support all three of the resolutions and I won't be talking, but there are just a couple of things that I wanted to mention. One of the things that finally did sell me on this is the fact that our residents don't have to purchase the carts outright. I think the recycle fee is it's just one of those. If you get a little tiny bit every month, it's not as hard as sending in your, what the IRS wants from you for your taxes and that sort of thing. I loved the videos of the guys picking up the garbage. Dancers, they're like dancers. It was poetic, it was great, I'm serious. I was as riveted this time as I was the first time I watched the video and I do appreciate their strength and agility and hard work. So that's all good. I do know that there are seagulls around and they peck bags apart. As I drive around, though, there are many, many, many, many, many more bags that are not pecked apart by seagulls. That being said, I still think there's a compelling reason to use the carts. Here's my issue and observation. Tim and I spend a little time in Milwaukee from time to time that has the carts and it's in an old neighborhood with narrow sidewalks and you don't walk. You pick your way around the carts that will stay out for a day or two days or three days or there's some that just seem to always be there. I represent constituents in the old part of the city where there aren't garages. Tim and I will actually have to build another garage to fit these two honkers in or I'm gonna have to start parking my car. We have a modest garage. We don't have a three car garage and a big driveway. We just don't run an alley. I have no idea where we're gonna put these suckers. It's really, it's gonna be interesting. But people need to understand that yes, it's not nice to see pecked apart garbage bags. It's also really not nice to see these unsightly carts out all day. If you're lucky it's just all day and if you're not lucky it's... And we're gonna have in my district houses where people don't have a place to put them. We do have a garage and I can park my car on the street. But there are lots and lots of people in my district that don't have garages. And they, it's just, they don't have driveways. They're just old apartments or old houses that before we did those kinds of things. So I do appreciate the fact that we're doing the media presentation. I think we're trading one inconvenience for another. And I expect to get a fair number of phone calls. But the other thing is people get used to stuff. You know, you just get used to it. So to me it is not, it's not a decisional factor that they look ugly and they're gonna be on the sidewalk and we're not gonna be able to walk around like we used to because people will get used to it and will enforce things and so forth. So I just, and I only say all of this in this long speech is to say this is no panacea. This is no wonderful way that we are improving our community. I think we're being smarter. I think worker safety is very important. But I think we're all gonna be getting quite a few phone calls. And it's gonna start to make the packed apart bags look not so bad after all. So we'll see. We'll see. I understand that first couple of months is there's gonna be some heartburn with it and it's gonna be a learning curve. But it is the industry standard and it's the way most of the state has gone. Todd. Thank you, Chair. Jason, how many garbage bags can fit in a 96 gallon container? I took, I brought them over in my pickup truck but I took them out. But I bought packing peanuts which are pretty light and fluffy and I was getting six sitting on top of each other just like that for a volume. But you can get six, seven cart bags into them. And the reason I bring that up is even when you watch the video, correct me if I'm wrong, but the majority of the homes would have four, five, six, or eight bags. And very little recycling. So the concept is obviously we want our constituents to recycle more which helps us with our cost. It also helps them to put more materials into the second container which is also cheaper for us theoretically. And then it means that the five or six bags of refuge would fit into the one container versus piled up on the inside a garage or on the side of a house. Correct. Thank you. Gene? Yes, one comment that I'd like to make is that first of all, thank Jason and David for their efforts in this. They've really done a good job. I think this is just the beginning. This is just the start. We're gonna have some more work. Dave and Jason are gonna have more work and they know that. And I think that their leadership will bring us through on this. And I think we're gonna have to make there's gonna be some ordinance changes that are gonna probably have to go along with this. But I think this is the way to go. I mean, even if we didn't, even if we went and tried to go with the bag system, we would have to do something different with our recyclables anyways. There's no way we could stay with it from what everything we've been indicated. There's no way we could stay with the current bag system with our recyclables. So we would end up with a cart for just our recyclables. Well, now we're halfway there already anyways. Why don't we complete the job? And I guess that's all my comments. Any other questions for the folks at Public Works? All right, seeing none. Thank you gentlemen. We'll jump into item 3.1, arrow number 2381819 by the City Clerk submitting a communication from Alderperson Boarding, boron regarding publishing in the New York Times dated March 16th, 2019 with the headline as cost rockets more cities stop recycling. I'll turn it over to Alderperson Boron. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope you've had a chance to read the article. I'm just gonna read a couple of things just to give you the flavor. And as the chairman mentioned, the article is as cost skyrocket more US cities stop recycling. With China no longer accepting use plastic and paper communities are facing steep collection bills, forcing them to end their programs or burn or bury more waste. Recycling for decades and almost reflective effort by American households and businesses to reduce waste and help the environment is collapsing in many parts of the country. Philadelphia is now burning about half of its 1.5 million residents recycling material and incinerator that converts it to energy. And then there was another community down in Florida, Central Florida, Deltona faced with the reality that despite their best efforts to recycle their curbside program was not working and suspended it. I guess my question, David, and this article was in the New York Times. The one yesterday was in the Sheboygan Press and a few days earlier it was in the Milwaukee Journal. One of the mayors was quoted as saying that one of the mayors was quoted as saying recycling is a luxury that we no longer can afford. And I guess what worries me a little bit, David and Jason, is this renewal of this contract that's coming up. Can you just give us a flavor of how everything that's going on in the worldwide recycling market is gonna affect us over the next three, four, five years? It's definitely changing in its market rate, its market based. So right now there's really not a lot of market for it. So what the companies have done is they're stockpiling it and unfortunately they're running out of room to stockpile it until the market gets better. We're always gonna have some form of recycling. The industry has invested literally billions of dollars to manage recyclable materials. So it's just not like they're gonna turn a switch off and say, oh, we're out of the business. Will it be more costly for us? Yes, but it won't be as costly as garbage. So it still should be a savings. However, it won't be as great as a savings as we've been used to. As I mentioned earlier, right, as of today we're paying $0 per ton for our recyclables. If it goes up to $15 or even $20, it's still less expensive than the $47 a ton for garbage. So it is a cost. We know there's gonna be challenges with it, but I still think that we're gonna be recycling in this country one way or the other. There are some materials where, such as aluminum, that there is a direct advantage to recycling aluminum because it is much cheaper to recycle aluminum versus virgin material. Other materials, however, that's not the case. And so some division decisions will be made on a longer term basis on, does it make sense to recycle some of this material or not? So that will be the key. And there's a lot of legislation in place right now that would need to be changed in order just to start banning materials or getting out of recycling completely. And then if that would be the case, I think then you'd have the industries and the lobbyists coming at them saying, hey, we just invested billions of dollars on the premise that this is the law. This has to be managed in a certain way and now you're changing it. So I think it's not a matter of, you know, a snapshot in time as today. It's gonna take, as it took to get recycling in place to where it is today, it took us about 25 years. It's not gonna go away that quickly. It's gonna take some time if it would be changed and go away over time. Mr. Mayor. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I had a conversation with Jason and you know, I read some articles about many of the communities are going back to dual stream recycling so that the products that end up being recycled are more virgin and cleaner and Jason went and checked with some of the companies in the area and he said, Mike, they're not gonna make that change to that for the foreseeable future. They've invested so much in the dual stream recycling MRFs, the material recovery facilities that that's not gonna happen for a long time. But he also said that if they do do that, then all we have to do is put on another recycling two trucks and we can go and we can pick up recycling twice, you know, one time it would be for the paper and cardboard and the next time it would be for the cans and bottles. So we can adapt to that if that's the way they go in the future, but it's not something he feels we're gonna see in the near future at all. Any other discussion on this item? Seeing none, I believe the correct motion would be to file. Is there such motion? There's been a motion in a second. Any more discussion on 3.1? Seeing none, all those in favor of filing this, please state aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. All right, jumping into 3.2, RC number 284-1819 by the Public Works Committee to whom referred was resolution number 192-1819 by Elder Persons Wolfe and Sorenson, authorizing the appropriate city officials entering into contract with Sun graphics media for the creation of materials for public education and outreach related to the automated garbage and recycling program. Elder Persson Wolfe. Thank you, Chair. I'd first like to make a motion to approve, but then I'd like Mr. Beable to kind of explain a little bit about this portion of it. All right, there's been a motion. Is there a second? There's been a motion and a second. David? Sure, what this portion would be is we'd work with Sun graphics to develop our information education program that we are anticipating with this process. As we all mentioned earlier, this is gonna impact everybody in the community. So we wanna make sure we get that information out correctly, get the right message to the right audience as well. So it's gonna be a little bit tailored for each audience. You know, like I mentioned, we have the rental units, the audiences with the landlords versus the neighborhood associations and so forth. So that's part of the process that we're looking to go over with this. Again, it's a work in progress. We have some material from forth as well. Now it's a matter of packaging that and putting it together in a comprehensive program so we can get that message out. Marcus? Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. I'd first like to say that I am 100% in favor of the garbage collection proposal to move to automated trucks as well as the great work that Sun graphics does. However, in committee, it came to my attention that Sun graphics was proposed to get this contract without competitive bidding. And that's just unacceptable. We are here to be good stewards of the public's tax dollars. And this is a very rare occasion where I feel that we're not being those good stewards. While Sun graphics might be the right company, they're probably going to do a great job for us without getting competitive bids. I think we may be overpaying. And with that, I cannot vote in favor of this without a competitive bid. Thank you. On that subject, typically for professional services, our department does not go out for competitive bids. When we go out for such as I'll use engineering companies as well, we'll negotiate and get proposals based upon a standard hours of work or a scope of work, look at deliverables. So on professional service contracts, we typically don't go out for bids. Now construction projects, yes we do, are for purchases of equipment for example. I understand completely that it's sole sourced. From a department's perspective, we just had a relationship with Sun graphics on some other projects. They worked with the county, for instance, on some of the bike and wreck, as well as their stormwater management. So that's partly why we reached out to them. We looked at their hourly rates and some of the professional services that they provide. We felt it was part of the industry standard. So, but I do understand your concern and we're cognizant of price as well and we don't want to be overpaying for this material as well. And we felt that at least for what was proposed was within that framework. Jim. Thank you Chairman. Just a technicality, isn't this Sun graphics thing on the agenda tomorrow night for public works? That's for a budget transfer. For the transfer. But that we actually have money within the garbage and recycling account that we're gonna probably, the recommendation tomorrow night is just to file that because the money won't have to be transferred. It's within our garbage and recycling as we are today. Okay, thank you. Okay, any more discussion on this item? Seeing none, there's been a motion and a second. All those in favor of approving this and sending it to the council for a recommendation of approval, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Aye. Chair votes aye. That one's approved. Okay, moving along 3.3 RC number 289, 1819 by the public works committee to whom was referred by resolution number 198, 19 by older persons, Wolf and Sorensen expressing the sense of the council that transitioning to an automated garbage and recycling collection program is the best interest in the city. There's been a motion to approve in a second. Any more discussion on this one? All right, seeing none. All those in favor of approving this with a recommendation to the council, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. Thank you. Moving along 3.4 RC number 290, 1819 by the public works committee to whom was referred by resolution number 191, 1819 by older persons, Sorensen and Wolf authorizing the department of public works to purchase seven new way auto carts, automated garbage and recycling collection trucks. There's been a motion and a second by older person, Boren, any discussion on this item? All right, seeing no more discussion. All those in favor of approving this resolution, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved. All right, seeing that we have agenda, the exhaust of the agenda, is there a motion to adjourn the meeting? There's been a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor of adjourning, please state aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? We are adjourned at 7.15. Thank you everyone for coming tonight.