 Domain's workshop curriculum for your community and so this is interesting and I told folks here that I would take the lead on it because I'm like the, you know, long tooth bearded man sitting around back when I did domain. And so they said, you know, maybe you could be useful for something around here, Jim. And I said yes for the long. Because you haven't said anything in the past two days. I heard that. These people are working. I wasn't muted. I know you weren't. Am I muted right now? Because I don't, I'm kidding. We can hear you. Anyway, I did want to talk a little bit about kind of some of this has been a process and it was interesting to see John Stewart reference it this morning with some of the work he had done with Keegan. And I know that Taylor has some work to talk about that they'll be doing here at St. Norbert's. And there are a bunch of folks who have built curriculum around helping faculty students and staff think through what a domain of one zone is but even more broadly what it means to work on the web through the web with the web. When you're talking about teaching and learning and disciplines. And so one of the things I think went really well early on when we were doing this at the University of Mary Washington is we built a curriculum, which was basically called the UMW or domain of one's own faculty initiative. And so I'm sharing my screen there and you can kind of get a sense of the site. If you're looking to go to it it's fi.umw.domains let me just make sure that's the right URL I think it is no it's fi.umwdomains.com we kind of pulled a fasty there so forgive me. So what this was was it was basically like a six week curriculum. Where we brought in usually a librarian faculty from different disciplines, and at times a student, and we would have these weekly meetings where we would talk about various elements of the web, which I thought was really pretty cool. One of the things you can see and I'll jump to this is you can get a sense from that site fi.umwdomains.com that the curriculum here is built in to the site. So if you look at week one, right, which I think is pretty cool. And this was kind of in the air at the time, a lot of people were talking about the essay by Vannevar Bush I don't always know if I pronounced that right because my pronunciation already has issues but As we may think, which for many folks was the kind of beginning of Engelbart search for this idea of augmentation of human intellect through computers and as a result through the web. And then we talked about stuff like small pieces loosely joined and seven ways to think about the web which we linked to yesterday with John Udell and the interesting thing here is this discussion wasn't about. Here's C panel, like here's your domain like dig in this discussion was about what is the web. What are its roots, and how did those thinkers who started to bring this to bear. Imagine it both, you know historically back in the 50s or 40s and more contemporary and this goes on to deal with issues like if you look at week two. You'll see that there's a whole issue about digital identity and Dana Boyd leads off that discussion talking about, you know questions of how youth and identity through the web are fashioned and forged. And it was actually a really compelling six week intense discussion between various ed techs at UMW Martha bird is Andy rush myself Tim Owens, Mary Taylor who is running the teaching and learning center. And we really spent time working with our faculty and staff to think through what it means to be on the web. And so we would have these readings and people would blog about them you'll see from the site there's also a place where we're aggregating a blog post because that was a thing once and people actually willingly blog when you when you brought them in this stuff. But the other thing that we did is each session was a discussion, and then a focus on one tool that maybe abstracted out some of those notions of identity like domains. So we would talk about the kind of more philosophical implications of digital identity, but then we would dig into what it means to choose a domain, or what it means to think about sub domains and sub directories and structuring space. And so every week, we would really kind of dig in on a topic, both philosophical about the web but then very practical. And this is the way we brought in I think it was over 60 to 70 faculty and you have to send UMW has 200 faculty. So we had a wide range of impact, and we did not focus just on teaching faculty, we focused on administrative faculty, we focused on select students, and we tried to make this a varied group, where this discussion would have real bearings in the intellectual process that everyone was going through with classes and readings and reflection and writing, right? I mean, we were at a university, nothing we were asking them to do seemed odd or strange. So I think in terms, if you are thinking and it comes, I highly recommend it, if you can do this, if you can bring something like this together, I highly recommend creating a structure where you can bring in not only faculty but admin faculty or staff or students who have a real discussion about this and I imagine in the last seven years since 2015, which is the last time we did this on the ground, you know, those discussions have become even more relevant, and you can add more elements like surveillance right like social media platforms and their social media platforms, et cetera. So I wanted to start this discussion off by looking at a very early and I think focused use case of how you build a curriculum to bring your community into discussion around what is the main of one's own, and more importantly attracting out a bit and saying, what is the platform that it represents, namely the web and all of its possibilities and also its concerns. So that was the first one I wanted to lead with at UMW and again it was called the domain of one's own faculty initiative and you can find it at fi.umwdomains.com Jim, just while you've been chatting here, I went ahead and created a thread and discord called domain of one's own workshop curriculum where we have this linked. John Stewart also linked curriculum and materials for most of the early oh you create workshops and learning communities, which have been preserved on Keegan long wheelers site, and that is listed there as well. I also listed one for MSU domains fellows program which if we have time we can chat about in a bit but that one was pretty cool too where they've got a couple week long seminars to get faculty up to speed with the digital presence. Yeah, I actually would like to look at some of the other iterations I know we've already you know tapped on the door of John Stewart again but if he wants to come and talk a little bit about the stuff they did with Keegan that's great but one of the things that I was interested in is, you know, MSU has a very specific focus for their domains. You know, and when they talk about an SU I mean Michigan State University, they have a very focused vision, and that vision is driven by their their dean Chris Long and I think it's a great video of him talking about you know what domains is and why do it. And for them, it's about preparing the scholars, graduate students and PhD students and folks who are coming into their discipline to think through what it means to share their And to build a kind of basically a life of the mind, virtually connected of what MSU strengths are as an actual research hub. And I really like that they have a very focused kind of frame for what they do. And they have built a curriculum around that for the faculty and the graduate students and the PhD students who are coming up so maybe it's worth talking a little bit about that because it's very powerful. Yeah, I was going to say I mean the link is right there in Discord so feel free to follow along but they call it the Domains Fellows Program, which is an introductory course for faculty who want to establish their web presence and Jim you and I went and sat in on campus with them a couple of years ago and sat in on one of their I think workshops with faculty and so we were able it was a cool moment where we were able to see it in action. You know, but I think faculty walk in the door, not really knowing much about the space but being interested in seeing how it could be helpful for their courses, for example, or their own professional work, you know, and so kind of like the the Coventry Learn Support page breaks down, you know, what is the World Wide Web all the way through installing WordPress and getting core sites up and running I think that's the end goal right is that over the course of six weeks weeks or something you know they've got a really achievable workable solution for core sites going forward but in the beginning you're starting at, you know, the bare bones basics of what Web hosting even is so I really like this is just a cool model to, you know, take faculty in one step at a time. And I think one of the cool things and you'll see it in the UMW curriculum too. I think week six and the UMW or week five and the UMW curriculum one of the things they focus on and I think it's very similar to Michigan State is what kind of online web based realities exist in your scholarly discipline. I think that's for me has been an interesting kind of like development, you know, since we started pushing WordPress in 2005 2006 and we were on Twitter in 2007 and people like I don't know what you know what you ate for lunch like that whole joke. And I think that's forward 15 years later. And I think just about every academic existing in various disciplines has some real investment in online virtual communities wherever they may live you know if it's Facebook or if it's some other space like Slack or, you know, a blogosphere or what like it's no longer like this odd thing that's existing at the margins. It's in some way central to how they're the discourse in their discipline is happening. And I think that's one of the things that I think should be front and center with platforms like the main of one's own for example is this offers another space for your faculty for your administrative faculty for your staff to build some of those spaces where that conversation can happen. And more broadly that's what it should be as a platform for your entire university so I love the curriculum because we like let's have this conversation on the ground with the faculty to give them a sense of why this is important. What are the deep intellectual roots because faculty want to read like they don't want to be told it's great you know you can also buy your shoes there and like you know it's Instagram they want to know why. Right, exactly and I think just like we are currently sitting in this space to and thinking about what's the best way to build a domain of one's own curriculum for admins or how are we talking about WordPress multi site I think a lot of domain of one's own admins are thinking about how they can best talk about this on campus and everybody's got their own strategies and I think if we can bring those to the forefront so everyone can see that you know we're not recreating the wheel. And we can really use and lean on each other to to share those resources and Taylor I know sorry no no and that's why I was great to see John Stewart's example emerge in the in the text today in the chat and discord and to hear more about other people kind of kind of thing because I don't think we live in isolation with it. Exactly, and I think John actually linked to one more as a pitch towards grad students on why it's important to build a personal site about their work and I just took a look at that site it's digitalpresence.oucreate.com, and it's pretty cool. I can share my screen really quick. This is my first time seeing it actually. So I'm literally navigating through it on the fly for the first time but I love that it's just a start button you know to get started into establishing your presence with a website so I think that's that's really cool it looks like they're highlighting community work as well. How to use social media as part of that. And there's some beautiful like really overlapping with this and with Michigan states and you know the idea of a university taking some initiative to understand the value of faculty and admin faculty sharing the work they do and getting it out there and being behind it. It's not only good for the folks it's also good for the university and more broadly the community to know what other people are thinking. Gardner Campbell said it best when he talked about blogging and the work we're doing is like what it starts to expose a platform like at the time you and W blogs or I believe domain of one's own it exposes the life of the mind of the university and I still hold on to that idea I think it is a super powerful way to think about the work we're doing. You know and kind of really undergird some of the power of getting people on campus to think broadly not just about oh we're going to blog for an assignment it's going to be graded but no these tools are changing the way we communicate and interact online more broadly. And we need to take that seriously as universities you know to be relevant and also interesting right like I think it's important. So with that I know we you know have a couple examples just you know that we're sort of working through and it looks like more still being added to the chat but it might be a good opportunity to chat about the domains camp for St. Norbert. Yeah so I'm going to talk about this because this is a conversation we've been having with the folks at St. Norbert about something they want to build and then you know hopefully is useful to the greater domains community in that they could kind of pick up and run with it. To be perfectly honest I as as putting sessions together I was like we really should highlight this and some of it I'm hoping that if you have more questions on it that we can probably you can probably direct those to Annika and she can kind of talk you know field those with the with the team here at St. Norbert because I'm kind of they're kind of partnering with us at reclaim and I'll be building it and working with them but a lot of the vision here is kind of something that they they've laid out actually so just want to make that clear because I think it is a kind of a cool vision so they St. Norbert wants to build a domains camp is what is what the current name for it and essentially starting out from the concepts of digital identity and ownership and what that means on the web essentially going through connecting those ideas to domain of one's own and connecting to what is domain of one's own to how do you do stuff with domain of one's own so kind of going that full stack of like let's talk about why you would want to do something like this. Let's talk about what the tools are and what they mean and how that's an answer for the why right of identity and ownership. And then let's do it like let's let's make an account let's make a WordPress site if you've not done that before. And so the idea is that it would be sort of module based. And so basically the kind of draft version of the kind of draft version of this right now would includes seven modules and the modules are of varying lengths to be perfectly honest, but and some of this is still kind of changing the evolving but like I said starting with digital identity and ownership, talking about, you know, having folks create an account and talking about the basics of just installing WordPress and doing that in a group setting, alongside other people. So one of the main ideas behind the domains camp is that it would be synchronous, but flexible so essentially, I know St. Norbert is really excited about delivering this in a synchronous probably mostly in person way. But the idea here is because these are all built into modules, is that if another school pick this up and said we're, we're not going to do it that way that it would be flexible enough that you could take sort of the curriculum here, and do with it what you want. So, the idea being, you know, may I could totally see some folks breaking out the modules around identity, and maybe what is lamp, and making that like discussions that happen maybe in a different space, and maybe having the getting started with your account stuff is more asynchronous, or you could flip that right like I think there's a lot of flexibility there. So, but the idea of them being modules is that you can kind of pick and choose what you want out of them. One of the things that comes to mind when you talk about this, and it goes back to discussions we had around documentation. And it is actually a kind of relevant thing is like we hear there's been work like this at Muhlenberg Tierney talks about the stuff they've done at Grinnell. We hear John and Keegan been doing great stuff at OU, and obviously the earlier stuff at UMW and there's more to follow I don't even think we mentioned Muhlenberg yet. But the idea here is like, and we've heard about this from documentation I know I'm taking a long time to build up but bear with me. We actually like if we could do this in a modular way in some version of a github like you know where I'm going with this, like we're thinking about with documentation so that we can both have people quickly fork it, take it, customize it, but then share back their changes. And that's that's that sharing back that we always run into issues with would be a really interesting way to think about and I know this is already where you're probably going with domains camp to get a curriculum like that easily accessible and forkable and customizable like documentation for a whole community who might want to grab it to go. Yeah, you know honestly this is kind of talking about this live this isn't something that we've talked about a lot but as you're saying that we because we've talked a lot in the community like in community chats around documentation and how can we make this a group thing we're all doing it how do we combine our efforts. Github comes up a lot in that conversation and the thing I always say with there is like look I love that stuff as much as anybody but no one on earth saying get is approachable is correct. So how do you marry those efforts right in a way that is approachable for new admins and people who maybe have already used get. So what I'm thinking though is like I think maybe this could be a really good test case for that maybe maybe we make the domains camp. The source of it right like the content stuff, maybe that's in a GitHub repository or something like it, and then we can use this to explore how do people propose changes to it and how does that work. This starting from here where we're only talking about seven modules is probably a very approachable place to start and we can learn with the community and like okay this does not work for people. This does and it will inform the design of the content and from the beginning yeah like we want this to be shareable. We want this to be you know customizable but also ability to share share back some of those changes so other people can say oh that was cool. Yeah one of the things that that is always tricky about these like workshops of people and they make them in WordPress right often or like the content and of course right it's about the web it should be of the web. I get that but what's not real easy with WordPress based things for this is if you're an individual who wants to take the and they say like yep it's Creative Commons come and use it for whatever. If you're if you're an ed tech at an institution looking at that like your best bet is to just like click on web pages and copy paste stuff. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but unless you're given a WordPress login and then you go like export stuff. It's actually not that straightforward right so so but starting with hey this is a GitHub repository with the probably markdown files is probably how I would do this. And this is how you can use them starting there and people knowing that OK at the worst case if I download a zip of this I have the stuff and I can start from this point even if I don't want to deal with GitHub. I don't know if anyone out there remembers this epic in my core fields career but for a while my core field was talking about the smallest federated wiki and that inspired. You know it's by a bunch of people and I think he was playing with a tool and we had used some version of that doc you wiki to actually try and create documentation early on for domain of one zone that could be shareable seamlessly and media wiki used to use similar technology like Transclusion to pull a part of another article into this article so you could have the content in modules in one place but then pull it in to make a whole series of different and that was using Transclusion which I think is a more general abstract application for how you can pull content from one side to another seamlessly. And I think you know returning to some of these questions around not only the curriculum which I think you're right it's it's manageable and we can think it through but then say OK what did we learn from that and how can we do better with documentation in that regard would be a really a really great kind of push for this kind of because you know curriculum is a particular form of sharing but people are going to want to customize it because everybody's community is different. It will be not I mean it'll be a great starting place but there's going to be things as simple as like all our screenshots don't look like that right like that's that's the to me that's like the first thing that happens when people have the built in documentation with domain of one zone is it state you screenshots which is about as good as we can do or not include screenshots right so so to have that be the first thing a lot of the stuff that I'm hoping to do with domains camp is kind of. It's weird because one of the things I'm still kind of working out with the folks at St. Orbert of what's the best way to do this is its curriculum but some of it I need to be I think needs to be kind of forward facing to like talking me Taylor not in my voice right more as a generic voice to the participant through the. The facilitator right because it's not like we're coming on campus to do all your your curriculums this is something that you're supposed to be able to pick up and use yeah with your faculty. So some of it is in the voice of of me saying this would be a good time to explore the C panel file manager and some of it is going to be more direct right to the the participant so I think as of right now we're probably thinking mostly as a curriculum that would be sort of red and interpreted and delivered but you know but some of that will be you know direct. Here's a video I made that you can have your folks look at to explain this particular concept and that is those are different voices right those were those are two different audiences one is for a teacher and one is for a. I'm going to calm student but I mean student of the curriculum not not on the on your campus student that's not that students I think a benefit from this to I just mean it could be for students faculty or staff. They're all students were all students of the web really. It's interesting because in the conversation I can see that Jackie and Ed and even Matt are excited about this but mentions of SCORM which kind of gives me a little bit of whiplash and shocks I'm sorry Jackie and Ed if when I hear SCORM my head bounces my eyes glaze over and my head. Tricky it is true and can tink tink can API again I mean I do think APIs provide a vast resource. I do think that you know when you're talking to the I'll use myself as the average Ed tech you know it assumes a lot of kind of knowledge and infrastructure to get access to that but that's something I think as a community we can build together so I appreciate you all. Yeah it is real Jackie and I appreciate you all throwing in there but I think you know we have certain tools right now that can get us a little bit far and to Matt's point like putting it in to get hub playing around with that and seeing where it leads would be. A really good outcome not only of having a curriculum that other folks can use which I love that St. Orbitz is doing that but then thinking through how can that be a model for sharing resources more generally whether it's curriculum documentation you know. Templates for sites etc it goes on and on and I think that's what we need to build so I know we're running. Basically down to about a minute or two left so any last points before we wrap up this session and move on to our next session which will feature John Stuart talking about next generation tools am I right with that or am I wrong hold on let me make sure I'm not yeah next session is with John Stuart and he's going to kind of share some of the work. That he's been the things he's been working on to make informed decisions around deprovisioning and we're showing that with the intent that you know maybe these are tools we can bring to the wider reclaim community if they'd be useful and yeah so that'll be a few minutes. And I just have to say quick Matt Davis wrote in the chat I'd love to think through the process of building open documentation through GitHub. And I think that in and of itself would be huge because we think about that for support documentation templates for domain one zone in general and how that's that's been a challenge so. Yeah that's a generous discussion I think we need to you know push on and I love that we have reclaim ed tech and GitHub to maybe I mean in discord to maybe like build that out and like yeah. Harness some of that so we can keep it going because that's always the issue is just keeping it going and having those conversations being able to update it yeah. Anyway, all right we are wrapping up here and we will see you in the next session thanks everyone.