 literate students who can change a world for the better. Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with notable our Jupyter Notebook service. Our DigiMap services deliver high quality mapping data for all stages of education. Future developments include a text and data mining service, working with satellite data and machine learning and smart campus technology. Idina's work with learning technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change a world for the better. Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with notable our Jupyter Notebook service. Our DigiMap services deliver high quality mapping data for all stages of education. Future developments include a text and data mining service, working with satellite data and machine learning and smart campus technology. Idina's work with learning technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change a world for the better. Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with notable our Jupyter Notebook service. Our DigiMap services deliver high quality mapping data for all stages of education. Future developments include a text and data mining service, working with satellite data and machine learning and smart campus technology. Idina's work with learning technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change a world for the better. Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with notable our Jupyter Notebook service. Our DigiMap services deliver high quality mapping data for all stages of education. Future developments include a text and data mining service, working with satellite data and machine learning and smart campus technology. And may I congratulate all of those who made it here on time this morning and we'll give you a big round of applause. I understand Whiskey was had, Haley Ng was very successfully accomplished and I don't think anybody had to go to the hospital afterwards. So we've had a wonderful evening thanks to the Caley Band in Tiviat Hall and from the University of Edinburgh. My name is Mara Ndeepwal and if you are just joining us here for the third day of the conference, it's my privilege to be the first to welcome you to the final and hopefully the most expiring day of ALT's annual conference this year. Yesterday after the morning keynote we had a very special moment and I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who participated. As you can see on the screen, we took our first ever ALT-C community portrait and we hope very much that this will become an annual tradition where we can hopefully chart some of the growth and also the increasing diversity of our community, not just here at the conference but also for all of you joining in online. So thank you again for everyone who participated in the portrait. And I'm hoping that if you did participate, you'll be able to find yourself. I've seen some of the results of that search on Twitter and it looks like we can all spot each other. Wally wasn't spotted yet. Also, we continue to work as hard as we can together with our colleagues from the venue to make this the best conference experience we can possibly deliver for you and thank you for your continued feedback and input. And please do come to the help desk at the reception but we'll continue to be there for you all day. And now, I know that we are slightly depleted in numbers as yet. I think after the gala evening, that is always the case. So hopefully you will be prepared to put your hands together twice as loudly and we can fill this hole for one more morning with a very warm welcome for our coaches. So I'm going to hand over now and welcome back to the stage Melissa Hyten and also give a big shout out to Keith and Louise who will be active later. So good morning to all the coaches. Thank you, Marin. Thank you all for dancing. That was a great night. I was very pleased to see so many people setting and burling and raising the roof with the hoots. So I'm very pleased that everybody who managed to dance last night danced welcome to everyone who is just joining us for the first day today. You missed the dancing, but it seems like there might be moves of foot to make every old conference have a keelie. And so my work here is done. Thank you to everyone who's just arrived. Thank you to everyone who's joining us for just one day. Thank you, of course, to all the people tuning in online. Well done to all the winners of the Learning Technologist of the Year Awards. That was a wonderful ceremony. There were many highly commended. There were runners up. There were winners. Everybody came up and got their prizes. The photographs were taken. It was a lovely celebration. And it is really important to celebrate success in our community. And I think that sometimes if you're celebrated for your success in your institution, that's something that your senior managers should be paying attention to doing. But if you may be feeling a little bit undervalued at home and nobody quite appreciates what you're doing. Remember to put your projects forward into these national awards because we enjoy receiving all of the nominations, hearing about the projects, and we particularly enjoy celebrating success and giving you your awards. So thank you very much for doing that. Everyone who has made it to day three, well done. I'm impressed with the stamina of the people who make it through three days of a big conference like this. I just want to remind you that if you're not rushing off, if you don't have to get an early train and leave Edinburgh, we are having a reception between, so from five till seven this evening, it's hosted at the University of Edinburgh Library. Now that's not actually on your map, I think, in the screen, but it's really not far. So as you headed across to Appleton Tower, you saw George Square Gardens appearing on your right. And the library is just on the other side of those gardens. The enormous basil spence building, big black and white. You won't miss it if you're heading in that direction. Come into the foyer and say that you're going to the reception in the Centre for Research Collections on the fifth floor. If you think you might come, though, please do click through and just let Sondri know that you're coming because we've ordered catering and everything, so it'd be good to know how many people are coming. That'd be a lovely evening. And what's happening is we're bringing stuff out of the University of Edinburgh archives, specifically around ed tech, things that we think you might be interested in seeing, so do come along and have some wine and some nibbles. Of course, as mentioned, we still have the exhibition. We still have all the stands downstairs. There's a certain amount of freebies, all those plastic cups, all that merchandising. They don't want to take that stuff home. So gather it up, take it back for the teams, all your friends. They've got so many nice reusable plastic cups that will be sorted for those. And do talk to the vendors and find out what they're doing because this is for the next year of what you're doing. You might want to be asking those vendors some searching questions, which I think our keynote kind of prompted us to do yesterday. But the exhibitors and our sponsors and our corporate partners are very important to the success of this conference. And every morning we give a chance for a couple of the sponsors to tell us a bit about what they do. And we're going to have two now. So I'm going to invite up again Joe from VVox. Let me just get that for you. You can already say hello to everyone. There we go. I just need to figure out how to click. Fantastic, cool. Yeah, for anyone that I haven't met yet or I haven't been here for the last couple of days, my name's Joe Probert. I'm the Customer Success Manager for Education at VVox. VVox is a student response system used in classrooms primarily for Q&A and live polling. Today we're going to be using it again in its kind of conference sort of situation. So we're going to be using it for Q&A. So asking questions throughout the sessions. All of the chair people will have an iPad with them and they'll be able to see all of the questions coming in. So if you've got questions that you want to ask throughout, you can do that. So in order to get connected, if you haven't been here for the last couple of days, how we do that is on your phone, on the laptop. If you open up a web browser and go to VVox.app and you'll then be asked to join the session and we're using the same meeting ID that we've been using over the last couple of days. And that meeting ID is one, zero, three, two, three, seven, three, nine, one. And again, we've got that meeting ID dotted around the room. So we've got it here on the main stage and also out to the sides as well. Also dotted around the room on the seats is a seat card that's also got the meeting ID on it as well. And on the back is a crossword and we've had quite a few people coming up to a stand with those completed so far. We've still got a few prizes to give away so please do today is your last day to get those completed. If you bring them along to our stand in the exhibition space, yeah, there's a prize for you. Once you're into the session, you'll be able to join the Q&A by clicking the speech bubble icon that you'll see on the home screen. If you click onto that, you'll be able to see all of the questions that have been submitted by other people but you'll also be able to enter your own questions as well. And we've also built into there a feedback survey which you can get to by clicking on the clipboard icon. We've already had quite a few responses to that which is really great. Please do if you haven't already. Do you take the time to go onto that? I think there's about four or five questions so it won't take very long to complete. And now finally, just before I hand back over, we're gonna do another quick word cloud question. So today, we're going to ask you, what is your focus for the upcoming year? You can enter multiple answers. It may be something that your focus may have changed based on some of the sessions that you've been to over the last couple of days but it's really great to just hear from you guys what your kind of focus is for the next, yeah, next year. I can see the creativity is getting a lot of responses there. Do you feel free to put in multiple answers? And once we've got this sort of completed, we'll tweet this out as well so you can grab that. I can see Pong is also getting a lot of responses as well. Oh, my God. That's brilliant, thank you. Yeah, we'll keep that open a little bit longer. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you very much for using the app throughout the conference. I hope it's really brought something to your sessions and yeah, I hope you enjoy using it today. Thank you. Can we have a slide for Adina? Yes, okay. So our next sponsor is Janet Roberts from Adina who and Adina sponsored the Alt Learning Technology Awards this year that you probably saw last night. I'm particularly pleased to be able to welcome Janet. Janet and I share an office and so we share a lot of the thinking about how big organizations work and what it is to be leading technology services in a big organization. I think it's something very nice about University of Edinburgh. It's a luxury actually to work at a big research institution. So as well as having learning and teaching and the research collections that I've mentioned in the library, we also do R&D in learning technology. And when we come up with great services that we're using within Edinburgh University and we think this is a good learning technology service and other people should benefit from this. And most institutions, most learning technologies don't have the luxury then of developing those services and making them available externally. And so it's a real really nice, it's a jewel in the crown really of Edinburgh University to also have Edina working as part of our organization because it means that we are able to develop services, learning technology-led services and make them available to the rest of the sector and to all of you if you would like to use them. And Janet's gonna mention a bit about that. We do have the display stands and James and Nira have been there for the whole of the conference answering questions showing you the services that are on offer. It really is I think quite a nice part of what the sector is about to not just buy services from commercial vendors who have developed these technologies but actually to make sure that some of them come up from within our community. And University of Edinburgh staff and students benefit from the services that Edina developed. And just as an aside, if you're interested in business transformation, digital transformation and organizational change, do have a chat with Janet if you get a chance because she has transformed the organization in which she works and she is a really impressive woman in tech and now that I've embarrassed her, I will ask Janet to come up. Thank you. Well, thank you for that lovely introduction, no pressure. And thank you all as well. It was an absolute pleasure to be part of the awards ceremony last night and the wonderful dinner, thank you for that. So just to talk a little bit about what Edina does in terms of those technology services that we provide, I just want to first put it into the context of not only the way that the university influences us but actually a major strategy that's happening across the whole of the Southeast region of Scotland at the moment, which is a 1.3 billion pound city region deal. Now this is a collaboration between six local authorities, universities, colleges, schools, industry, institutions like the NHS, our charities and social enterprises. And we're coming together with this city region deal, which like many of them, and this reaches as you can see from the map, it's five in the north across the three Lothians and right down to the borders. And as I say, it's a city deal, which is a regeneration program to re-energize the communities and the society we live in. There's a lot of infrastructure commitment within that, of course, lots of new schools and homes and roads, et cetera, being built. But there is a really important component part of it, which is a commitment to drive data-driven innovation. And what this is is this recognition that it's not just the tangible infrastructure we need now for all of our society, it's actually that non-tangible data-driven area that we all need to be engaged with. And how this is translating this ambition, it's around the idea of it's not just our industries that we want to support, create new services, but it's also about helping our local authorities and the people that work in those local authorities be more data literate, be able to provide services that are more efficient for the public that they support, it's about helping the NHS be more efficient in its early interventions as well as the services it helps. And as I say, it's about the charities and social enterprises, the creative industries, the festivals, as well as the fintech area that's so important to this region. So that's the ambition behind it. And of course, the realization is that in order to drive that, what you actually need is everybody to have these data skills that we've been talking about for the last two days of the conference. And for us, it's also, it's not just about our students are in higher education having these data skills, it's actually how do you get those data skills out to the wider public, into your schools, not just further education, also into people who are retraining where they're recognizing their jobs are changing and they're going to need new skills, people returning to work. And actually all of our society just that we're more confident in understanding of data. So what this is meant for Adina is that Digimap flagship, which is the service we've been running for 20 years and supporting students access data and understand how to use it and how to present it spatially has become even more important to us. And last year, we added an additional data set around census data. And this is real life census data from the 2011 census. And it's helping a much wider area of students studying many more subjects to access this data and interrogate and understand socioeconomic data across the whole of the UK. And actually we thought this was such an accessible way to look at data we've introduced it to our school service as well. We've expanded our services into computational notebooks because we recognize that there are many students and academics as well who want to understand how you use data but they don't have the coding skills or understanding how programming works. And by being able to access Jupiter notebooks this has made much easier and those barriers are lowered. And one of the interesting things around this for us as well is we're developing that beyond the university and we're talking to local colleges and say how do you introduce this service and this technology into your vocational skills and the studies that your students are doing going straight into work. And then finally when we looked at the market as well around text to data mining and we did find text and data mining services but they assumed a very high level of competency around data skills already. So what we're doing at the moment is looking to see if we can design a simpler service that helps students understand what the process is and a simple onboarding service so they can start to acquire those skills and then move on to the more complex approaches. And again our ambition with this is that this just won't be for the university but we'll reach out to non-academic market and support businesses, charities and again the public sector to understand how text and data mining works and how that can make a difference to the work that they're involved with. Now obviously as we've heard over the last two days this isn't something that's unique to the southeast of Scotland it's something that all of us and all of you are dealing with and we'd be very, very happy to hear more about what the challenges you face are and what you're doing about this and if we can possibly help you. I have colleagues on the stand outside but please do get in touch and talk to us to see if we can collaborate together. Thank you very much for your time and attention. I wish you a lovely and exciting third day of conference and safe travels home when you leave us. Thank you very much. Now as Janice was just mentioning we have another packed day ahead and there are a couple of highlights in today's program. Please go online and also use your printed guide. If you've been at any of the GUSTA sessions in the last two days I hope very much that you will join us for the final plenary sessions which is GUSTAing all the way and I am assured by Tom Farrelly that today there will be music and singing and definitely lots of waving and getting up and down of seats. So it should be a very, very energetic plenary session. At the end of which we're going to find out where next year's annual conference is going to be. But there's also a few late program changes I wanted to make you aware of. There is a session that's been withdrawn which was due to happen from 11 to 12 in room 211, the emerging design approaches to contextualization and OER as Epistemic Artifact in Interprofessional Learning. That is quite a title. I'm sure we'll find out all about that in the after-conference follow-up. And there's also a change of session chair. Thank you to Al's newest honorary life-maver, Francis Bell, who is now chairing a session from 2 to 3. And now in a moment it is time for this morning's very special keynote. And coming up to introduce today's keynote speaker is our co-chair and since yesterday also Al's vice-chair, Keef Schmeich. Please give Keef a warm welcome. Thank you very much, Marin. Good morning. It's great to see so many people here for the start of day three and a particular well done to all the faces I recognize from the late night photos on Twitter. So it's my privilege to be introducing Olly Bray as the keynote speaker for day three, final day of the all-conference 2019. Olly is a global director connecting play and education at the Lego Foundation. He is an educator with over 20 years experience as an award-winning teacher, a transformative head teacher at King UC High School, and also an educator who has advised government and public sector on use of technology and learning and teaching. Perhaps just as importantly, given where we are, Olly's also an alumni of the University of Edinburgh. He did his postgraduate, sorry, yeah, his first postgraduate in the University of Edinburgh to become a geography teacher and in a postgraduate in educational leadership and management. I was really pleased to hear that I'd be introducing Olly because of the privilege of hearing him speak. Quite a few years ago now, when he came to do the keynote address for a learning and teaching conference at my previous university, and Olly did a very energetic, very enthusiastic and vigorous address about what was happening in the school set with technology and what the implications of that would be for further and higher education, particularly students transitioned in. And that resonates very strongly with our themes for this year, particularly around creativity across the curriculum and learning from each other across the various parts of the education sector. I think within schools, within further education, within higher education, community education, we can go far and we're going far in our digital education practice, but we can go further if we work collectively. And the kind of heart of some of our themes for this year is this notion of digital education as a joint project, a joint initiative we can take forward together. So in the spirit of learning from one another across the various parts of the sector, please give it up for Olly Bray. Just going to quickly zip the slides around. It's really great to be here this morning. I was going to start my talk by sitting on the front of the stage, but that's because my legs are tired and I had a lot of whiskey last night. I'm joking. So thanks very much for the introduction. It's always great to be in Edinburgh. Before moving to Denmark, and more about that in a minute, I spent the first 20 years of my professional career working in Scotland. Some of that's been mentioned already, but I did kind of want to give you a little bit of a sensor background because I think that that is important. So as Keith mentioned, I did my teacher training in Edinburgh. I did my undergraduate at the University of Plymouth on the South Coast. I moved to Scotland, horrified my mother because I'm originally from Dorset, but I was going to move 600, 700 miles away, but worked originally for Sports Scotland and then trained to be a geography teacher. My first schools were in Edinburgh as a student, but then I worked the first part of my career in East Lothian. If you don't know Scottish geography, it's the neighbouring local authority to Edinburgh, but lived in Edinburgh for seven great years of my life. If you know a little bit about Scottish education, you know that we had a big education reform a number of years ago. Many would argue that that reform is still ongoing at the moment in terms of lots of different ways, and I was quite involved in that at the start. In an organisation, what was called Learning and Teaching Scotland that then became Education Scotland, the national agency for curriculum design and now also improvement. And at part of that time, I did a piece of work for the Scottish government around their first technologies for learning strategy. And more recently than that, I mean that to me seems like a million years ago now, and as I was wandering the streets of Edinburgh last night, I was thinking, my gosh, that seems like a past life that I was here. You know, first of all as a student and then working in Victoria Key down in government, but I guess kind of more recently, in over the last seven years really, I took a headteacher job at Kinesio High School up in the Scottish Highlands, where developing a digital culture was a big part of my mantra and my mission in terms of transforming the school. I was very, very involved for a period of years with Inverness College at the University of Highlands, I'm very passionate about further education and I'm very passionate about trying to make better links between further education and secondary schooling in terms of that holistic journey all the way from three to 18 and beyond. And until I moved to Denmark, I was very, very involved and I have been very involved for a number of years with BBC Scotland around the Education Advisory Committee. So a bit of a long preamble into the different sort of sectors I guess I've worked on and hopefully bring some of that insight to the conference this morning. But it was time for a change and I had an opportunity last November to relocate and we relocated and we moved to Denmark, we moved to Billund, it's not Copenhagen, this is the Lego house, actually exists, it's about 250 meters from where I live in my apartment at the moment. This is not the venue for the old conference 2020. However, we do run conferences from there in particular, the Lego Idea Conference, but I went and I joined the Lego Foundation and I'll talk a little bit more about the Lego Foundation in a minute and some of the work that we do because I think that that is useful. If you've got a great new idea for a new Lego set, I am not the person to speak to, all right, I do not do that. If you're looking to get a discount on the Star Wars announcement and the new Lego set Star Wars that comes out today, I am not the person to speak to about that. I don't work for Lego Education. I think I've got all of my disclaimers now out of the way. But we will talk a little bit about some of the work that we do in the Lego Foundation because do you think it is relevant? And as I was sort of preparing for this talk, I was looking through the conference themes and I got some advice from some of the chairs of the conference. So I said, what is it you really want me to talk about? And they said, well, you're doing the keynote on the last day. You can pretty much talk about what you want. You know, you've got autonomy there. So I thought I would start off with the fact that I really like cycling. I really like cycling. And if anybody is ever looking for someone to go cycling with, I am your person to do that. But the main reason I mention this is it's a nice introduction, I think, to something I've tried to do all of my career. And that is when I think back to when I learned to ride a bike, this is the sort of bike that I had. It wasn't quite as cool as this. It was a second hand striker that my mum bought from a charity shop. But this is the type of bike that I would have wanted. And the interesting thing about like when I was younger and I was learning to ride a bike is that bikes came with these things here, stabilizers or training wheels or whatever you want to call them. There was an interesting interrelationship, I think, between stabilizers and training wheels and a laster-plast. And the interesting thing about that, of course, was that when you rode a bike with stabilizers on, it was nothing like riding a bike. Because the hardest thing about riding a bike, of course, is the balance, isn't it? The easiest part about riding a bike is moving your legs around, because we're pretty good at that as we walk. You know, it's just changing the angle slightly. The hardest part about riding a bike is the balance. And it's been quite, I don't think for me, you know, moving to Denmark, because, you know, in Denmark, all of the children learn to ride bikes on these things. And increasingly within the UK, you know, we see more and more young children learning to ride balance bikes on these things, where they actually kind of get the balance bit first. And once they've got the balance bit, then they progress onto a bigger bike with pedals. Or if you've not got very much money or if you're clever about it, you buy a bike with pedals to start with and take the pedals off, right? And the kid's balance, then you put the pedals on, right? And eventually, you get the balance and then you do the kind of easy bit after that. And you're probably wondering what the point of this is. And the point of it is, is that what I've tried to do, I think, during my career, is I've always tried to think about things that work well. There's no doubt about it. Millions and millions of children around the world have been taught to ride bikes by using stabilizers. They've just had that torturous time when we've taken the stabilizers off to get to that next part. Yet there's lots of research now and lots of evidence that we can teach children to ride bikes in better ways within the norm of still riding to ride a bike. So my point really, I guess, is that, and the premise of this talk is around, how do we operate within boundaries, within sort of cultural boundaries, within schools, within the system, but how can we do things a little bit differently, right, in order to improve things? And one of my favorite quotes that I often use in conferences is a quote from the superintendent of schools, Chris Kennedy, and he's superintendent in the Vancouver schools. And I just think that this is really, really useful, and I've used this a lot both at conferences, but also working with teachers and school leaders. Is this whole idea of that technology is not gonna make teaching easier, but it is gonna make it different. And in fact, if we're really passionate educators, we know that education's like a really complicated, really, really hard job, and that's actually one of the reasons that we love it. We might hate it, like towards the end of term, and the idea, but one of the reasons that we're in this is because it's complicated, and if it wasn't complicated, we would have figured it out already. So for me, it's about the difference, and how we can think about making things different. And that kind of links quite nicely, I guess, into what we do at the Lego Foundation, because if we look at the Lego Foundation's aims, the Lego Foundation's aims are to redefine play, because a lot of people think that play is just for very, very small children, or that play is just about fun, and it's not about that, and we'll maybe get into some of that later on, but a highly complex thing, and we know that it's really, really important to try and be playful throughout our lives, but also this idea of re-imagining learning. And I was really, really taken to these two aims from the Lego Foundation, because, of course, really, these are about doing things differently. They're re-imagining, and you're re-defining about doing things differently. And I was really super excited, in particular, of this one here about how do we re-imagine learning into what it could be, but still working within the boundaries of the system, if you like. So, I thought I would just kind of, I'm not gonna talk lots and lots about play during this talk, although we'll link back into it, but I was looking at this report just recently, which is a white paper that's been produced by the Lego Foundation, and I'll share the slides, and I'll share all of the links with you in the talk. And I was quite interested in this as I was listening to some of the presentations yesterday when we were talking about online learning, we were talking about MOOCs, and we were talking about spectrums of online practice, if you like, and I was thinking, well, it's really, really interesting, because there's something about spectrums of online practice, which actually are also very, very similar to spectrums of play, where we've got kind of like free play at one end, where it's completely the child's choice. I guess you could just think about that in terms of just like stuff that's on the internet that people kind of find and they kind of learn from, all the way through to the other end of the continuum where we're talking about like real structure and real instruction, that kind of didactic approach to using technology. Yeah, for me, and in the Lego Foundation, we think the most powerful part is where you get the balance between that child agency, and that intervention from the adult to really make the kind of learning happen, and the messages that I was getting certainly from the presentations that I was attending to yesterday is that actually in terms of online environments, online learning environments, again, you want that notion of learner agency in there, but also there needs to be some sort of structure, there needs to be some kind of guiding, there needs to be some kind of coaching that goes on with there as well. So it really got me interesting to thinking about the parallels between this. Another interesting link between play and technology is as we've been working at the International School of Billund, for example, and thinking about our work about learning through play in schools, particularly in the formal school setting, we've drawn on a lot of the research and a lot of the learning from technology-rich environments and some of the learning that comes from that to really get the parent body on board around things, because it's thinking about things in a different way, and I think that there are some interesting parallels in the literature around that. So that's a useful aside, which maybe links to you and resonates with you. So let's just talk a little bit about the Lego Foundation and how that works, because I think that is useful, and it maybe will save questions later. So this is Lego, and underneath Lego, we've got various different Lego brands, for example, Lego Education, the Lego House, I showed you that nice picture of that earlier, the brands that are associated with Lego Lands and the Lego Land Discovery Centers, we've got the Lego Store online and the retail stores as part of it. And you may or may not know, but Lego is still owned by a family, a Danish family, you know, a very well-off Danish family, but also like a really passionate Danish family, the Kurt Christian family that are really, really keen in terms of doing social good in the world, and are absolutely passionate about children, both in Denmark, but globally as well. So the Lego group itself, all of that kind of Lego stuff in there is owned by two people, it's owned by Kurtby, which is the family's holding company, they own 75% of the Lego group, and then the Lego Foundation owns 25% of the Lego group. And the mission of the Lego Foundation I've mentioned already is to redefine play and to reimagine learning. And what happens with that is that 25% of the profits that would come from the Lego group would come to us for philanthropic use around that. Now that's pretty huge if you think about it, you know, you sometimes see announcements from big companies that they will donate 1% of their profits for philanthropic goods. So in terms of a corporation around this, it's a really big investment from the Kurt Christian family to try and do sort of social good around the world. And in terms of what I do there is I work on the collecting, playing globe education program. And I guess the bits that would be relevant to this conference is the partnerships that I manage at the moment. One is to do with the International School of Billings, which is an international school in Denmark. One is the work that we do with the MIT Media Lab, which is particularly around the lifelong kindergarten and the personal robotics group. So if you, and many of you would be familiar with the Scratch programming language, it's our ongoing work with Scratch and how we do that with Professor Mitch Resnick and Cynthia Brazil in parallel and personal robotics. And also our work on what we call the pedagogy of play with Harvard Graduate School of Education and how we link that into schools and develop resources. So working with two university partners and the schools. And some of the things that we're thinking about, and again I thought that this might be useful for this conference, when we think about our pedagogy of playwork, is we're doing a lot of thinking around at the moment what are the paradoxes? You know, the paradoxes between playing schools or play and schools within the formal system. And again, I think this is quite useful because I think that we could learn a lot from this and its contribution to the field in terms of technology and technology integration as well. But there's some nice things in there. So play is timeless, but school is timetabled. So how do you get more playful schools? How do you exist within the system? Plays can be pretty chaotic, but school tends to be orderly. How can we get more playfulness into the system? How do we, you know, work around the edges around that? Play can sometimes be risky, but schools need to be safe. So how do we get more risk and that kind of risk-taking culture in there? How do we make that work? Play tends to be child-led, school tends to be adult-led. How do we get those kind of sweet spots, you know, in the middle of that graph that I was talking a little bit about earlier? So that's some of the things that we were doing. And as I was sort of talking yesterday about some of the things I might talk about, somebody did say to me, yes, well, it is a technology conference, Oly, so you should probably talk a little bit about technology as well in terms of what you're doing there. So I thought I would make a statement about technology. So I do think technology is important, first of all. And it's obviously important for lots and lots of reasons. And these reasons are reasons that I don't need to talk to you guys about because you work, obviously, extensively, you know, in this field, you know, at different areas. And we know, obviously, and we're very aware of all of these huge technology drivers that are going to impact on young people, that are going to impact on our universities. But there are kind of other things that I think we need to think about here in terms of how we position some of these large technology drivers, particularly in education, particularly in school education. So we're doing a bit of thinking around this at the moment. So there's a lot of talk and there's a lot of rhetoric around AI in education. You've probably heard a lot about that. I'm really, really pleased to be in an audience where probably many people in this room could actually tell me what AI is in machine learning is and it's not just being used to sell a product or a service, which is what tends to happen quite a lot. And there's lots of people that are obviously out there saying that AI will solve education. And of course, as a lot of people are talking about these things is what they mean is that we can actually use AI to generate really, really successful learning practices that we've had for the last 100 years. You know, it's not really thinking about how we can redefine and how we can transform learning. And I mention it because I think that we need to, in terms of education, really get away from this term AI in education and we need to play with the narrative a little bit more. Because for me, it's really about what is education like in the era of AI? And I think that that links in quite nicely to some of the themes from yesterday morning's keynote, which is really talking about the ethics of AI around that. And we're not doing enough at the moment with working with young people around the ethics of AI or the ethics of data in terms of how that works. And we've got some interesting work at the moment with the Media Lab, which is looking at that. But it's not just the narrative when we're thinking about obviously technology in schools or colleges or universities. There's lots and lots of challenges out there, whether that is time, whether that's children, young people, families, adult learners, whether it's the curriculum, whether it's driving results, whether it's a research output that needs to be produced. It is hugely challenging times. And the more I've thought about this and the more I've listened over the last two days is that if we really want to solve some of these problems, for me it comes down to this whole idea of people, the people that make this happen, the pedagogy behind it, but also the leadership. And I think that that word leadership has been available at this conference for the last two days, but maybe not in the sense that we really need it, need it, need it in. We're all technology leaders in this field and we all play our certain part in the system, but one of the interesting things that seem to be coming out of the morning keynote yesterday over coffee and over lunchtime is that we might be technology leaders, but we're not always the technology decision makers or institutes in terms of making that work. So how do we really help the decision makers also be technology leaders? That's a really important question I think that we need to go over. And I'm gonna give you an example about this and I think it's a bit of a controversial example, but we do need to be very, very careful when we talk about devices in schools, for example, where sometimes the purchasing of a large amount of devices in schools is made by one person or two people, yet the people that they're buying these devices from exists within a framework and the people that sell those devices in that framework sell two or three or four different devices from different manufacturers. And one of the increasing challenges that I think that we see across the whole of the UK, in fact, the whole of Western Europe is that people are seduced into buying a device from a manufacturer that sells three of different devices from three different manufacturers and the device that that person ends up making a decision about is the one where the people get the most sales royalties on it. Because that's the truth, that is the truth around something and it's not because of the pedagogical reasons behind it a lot of the time. It's because that this person can sell you three different devices, some might be cheaper, some might be more appropriate, but they're really pushing the one because they know that they will take more sales royalties out of that. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair there, but I do think that that is a real kind of ethical challenge that we have, and that's why we need good technology leadership. Maybe to sort of be a bit more lighted heart about it, it's then really thinking about, what are the appropriate tools that we want to use? I always like, oops, example, when she talks about the triple E3 framework, it says, well, if you wanted to put a picture on the wall, then you'd probably use a hammer. Like you could use a chainsaw, but it wouldn't be an appropriate tool to do it. And I think it's quite a good example of things and we do need to be a little bit careful of some of these things and we do need to be a little bit careful, of course, that sometimes people increasingly are buying these new tools, maybe they're a little bit shiny, but we're still using them to do the same things. And online conferences and meetings are great examples of that. So we do need to be taping and step back and need to be thinking a little bit more about, how are we making sure that we're making the right purchasing decisions for the children that we've got in front of us, for the context that we've got in front of us, like I'm massively worried about cloud computing in East Africa. Yeah, but these are the devices that are being sold in East Africa at the moment a lot of the time, but the infrastructure requirements aren't there. So we really need to think about some of these things and we cannot get seduced into the nice and shiny things that are there just because they're nice and shiny and try and retrofit them into education. We've really got to be thinking that and that's why we need the strong leadership linked into the good teaching and linked into the good pedagogy. So moving sort of slightly sideways around some of these things, I guess it's important to reflect on what we're trying to do. I think we all know this, we're within education, we're not getting too philosophical about it or too in-depth about it. We're trying to make sure that young people have got a good balance, obviously, between the skills and knowledge. Both are important. People that argue that one is more important than the other don't really understand education a lot of the time in terms of making that work. I don't believe there's a difference between academic and vocational, right? It's in the middle. We need to get beyond these arguments and we need to lose that historical rhetoric, I think, of the past. But we do need to think about what are the skills that young people are gonna need for the future? And again, there's no shortage of national and international advice and lead tables which tell us what skills may or may not be appropriate in the past. But actually, if you look at all of these skills, they kind of all say the same things, they're examples of holistic skills. But the important point with all of this, of course, it's making sure that we firmly root the importance of these holistic skills within our context. And that needs to be within our local context, in terms of local employability and local social need, and that needs to be within national context and then eventually international context as well. And so often, many of these skills frameworks are built the other way around. They're built within international context and then only the local context is thought about in the last moment, which is why we don't get the buy-in from teachers and it doesn't ultimately go on to impact on the young people. But I do suppose if we're thinking about developing skills in these different ways, then I believe any way that you develop skills through engaging and immersive experiences, it's one of the reasons I've always been a massive fan as a head teacher in outdoor learning. It's also one of the reasons why I've also been a huge advocate for digital technology and play-based approaches because I do think that if we can combine the outdoors digital technology, play-based approaches, we can create these kind of wonderful engaging and immersive experiences. And slightly tongue-in-cheek that if we're really thinking about trying to create these kind of immersive experiences, it's not just being told about things. It's not just being told about stuff all the time. And we need to be careful not to create digital online learning environments which are just telling people stuff. It needs to be two-way and it needs to be interactive. And it probably would come as no surprise to you that one of the ways that I think that we can do this from a pedagogical point of view is that we can think about the characteristics of play. Within the LEGO Foundation, these are some of our beliefs around the characteristics of play is that a playful experience is something which is meaningful, it's joyful. That word came across yesterday right at the start of the keynote. I love that, that whole notion of joy, the joy in learning, so important. Socially interactive, actively engaging and iterative where young people can prototype and they can reinvent things. And even though I'm using this in the context of playful learning experiences, if I was in school or when I work with teachers at the International School of Billings, we often sort of say, the characteristics of playful experiences. But do you know what? These are also the characteristics of an excellent lesson. Now, you might not get all five of these things in your lesson at any one time and it may work as a bit of a continuum where you've got a little bit more of one thing and a little bit less of another thing. But actually, if you're working towards an excellent lesson, this gives you a pretty interesting framework to work towards. How are you making it meaningful for the students? How are they walking away with that kind of joyful feeling of hard fun that goes with it? How are they able to iterate on their learning to improve? Are they socially interactive? Are they actively engaged? So let's just go back to Lego a second here and a bit of history. So Lego comes from two Danish words which basically means play well. And here's another history lesson for you. This is the Christensen family. So we've got all at the top there, the founder of the company, got Godfrey in the middle and we've got Kel at the bottom. Kel is now in his early 70s. He's still actually involved in the company. There's a big event in Denmark tomorrow which Kel is heading up for sort of Lego employees which is why we need to sort of rush off tonight. And the fourth generation is now very, very involved in the company and the fifth generation which are six girls are also starting to get involved and they rage between the ages of seven and the age of 14. Lego started off not making plastic toys but making wooden toys. One of the best-selling wooden toys was this duck. And what I thought we would do just because I've been trying to emphasize the importance of playing that playful experience to those five characteristics is I thought that we would have a go at a playful experience so that we can imagine what that's like. And this has got two purposes really. One, I think it's important. And secondly, it'll give you something to play with the rest of the talk if you don't like what I'm saying. So we're gonna hand out some little bags to you now and you're not to open your bag until I tell you to. This is the first exercise in what it feels like. Yeah, there's a lot of rattling there. Okay, if you've got one, kind of hold it up and shake it in an annoying fashion. That's good so we can see who's not got one. Okay, just about there. Just about there at the back. Okay, shake it towards someone. That's good. Okay, so this is what we're gonna do. First of all, the health and safety briefing. In a minute, we're gonna open these bags. Do not open it too enthusiastically unless the person next to you is wearing glasses. All right, try and control how this goes. Okay, so when I say go in a minute, I am gonna give you 40 seconds. And in that 40 seconds, you are gonna make a duck. Five, four, three, two, one, go. 10 seconds, two, one, okay, hold up your duck. Come and have a look at some of these. Some of these are quite interesting. That's good, yeah. Great, have a little look to the person to your left and your right. Okay, great, so loads of good things there and an interesting activity. And I suspect if we had a chance and we put all of our ducks on the stage, we would end up with a picture a little bit like this. All of the things that you've built are obviously a duck to you and many people would recognize them as a duck as well. But let's just have a little think about what happened around that. Lots of things, probably. So first of all, I mentioned already, there was probably was that whole kind of business of a bit of self-regulation at the start. I mean, you could see people as soon as they got their bag, desperate to open it. They were sort of shaking that around things, wanting to sort of try and make that work. There was definitely a bit of symbolic representation. Now, I turned the slide off at the front, there was, where's the picture? Where's the picture? How am I gonna make a duck? It's not as if nobody's ever seen a duck before. But again, calling that out from the back of your head, what does it look like to make a duck, sort of pulling that in? There was obviously some fine motor skills. Some of you needed to improve your fine motor skills. I noticed that from the hitting of Lego bricks off this wonderful historic floor that we've got here. There was definitely a bit of visualization that was going on. There was that kind of inner motivation where I said, right, you've got 10 seconds left here. You could see the speed and you could see the kind of pace really starting to move up. Again, there was more kind of self-regulation there, particularly as you looked around and you realized the person to your right stuck, looked a lot like you looked like duck than yours and the person to your left stuck was still on the floor trying to pick it up. But again, you kind of pulled this together. I would like to say that there was a little bit then of in terms of like ideation going on, and after you had a quick look around the room or look over your shoulder, you started to iterate on your duck to sort of try and make it better. In school, we call that cheating. In business, we call that collaboration, obviously. And at the end of it, when we said, right, stop there, there was that little bit of sort of self-assessment. Oh yeah, my duck's definitely better than yours. Yeah, yours looks like a deer. That looks like a deer. And then there was still that kind of like iteration and things that were going on. So there's like loads of stuff going on in here. And we could actually sort of talk about this kind of like very sort of short process to try and capitulate what we mean by kind of playful learning. But it's a short exercise to do it. And you can keep your ducks and keep your ducks and put that on your desk and take it apart and see if you can build it in different ways. And just remind yourself that sometimes that doing these little simple things can be incredibly playful in nature and how do we pull these back into our practice? And when I think about what makes a good Lego duck, and when I think about what makes the activity good, and there's a lot of different times, is I always come back to what makes it kind of powerful. And I think, well, probably within the activity there, it was suitable for the size of the audience in terms of what it was. We could have done it with a bigger audience, we could have done it with a smaller audience as well. And it involved hopefully some appropriate pedagogy. I wouldn't say the pedagogy was good necessarily, but some appropriate pedagogy. But at the same time, the activity was interesting and engaging for the context that we were doing it in. If I'd have asked you to build a duck and that activity was going to take an hour, that probably wouldn't have been appropriate. But for the context it was in, it seemed to work kind of quite well. And if I go back to then to my kind of characteristics of play and I think through it, then it did have a lot of these things in it. Like there was meaning for you, because you all know what a duck is in terms of doing that. And it was meaning because it was culturally set within the conference and the task that we were doing in it. I think it was joyful in nature. I don't know whether it was tears or laughter that I heard, but there were people seem to kind of enjoy the task or the challenge of doing the task. It was socially interactive, perhaps socially interactive in different ways, sometimes in terms of dialogue, sometimes in terms of looking at other people, in terms of sharing all of these different things that we've had here, certainly actively engaging. And I'm pretty sure that there was nobody in the room that just put the six blocks together and said, I've made a duck. It was definitely iterative in nature. And indeed, as you look around the room now, and you can continue to do this, there are still people that have been iterative in nature. There are still people that are working on their ducks still trying to improve these ducks. And what I kind of wanted to do for the last little bit of a talk was maybe to kind of unpack two of these characteristics a little bit more. We won't have time to unpack all of them. But actually, what do we mean by some of these things? What do we mean by actively engaging? And I'm thinking about here, obviously, in the context of play. And I guess the idea here would be to think about how can we then translate this to learning environments or online learning environments or classroom learning environments if you operate in there as well. So we'll unpack actively engaging and then we'll also unpack iterative because that will give us an interesting opportunity to talk about creativity. Then we'll sum up and then there'll be a bit of time for questions at the end. So that sound right as a plan? Yeah? And if that doesn't sound right as a plan, you can try and build a reindeer or you can try and build a frog or whatever you want with the LEGO bricks that you've got in front of you. So a couple of things that I guess around actively engaging pedagogies at the moment. One of the things that I wanted to kind of give a bit of a shout out for and this is related to learning through play in schools, but we've just done a piece of research with the Australian Council of Education Research around this report on learning through play in schools. And what we've done is we've taken the five characteristics of play and we've tried to cross match them to existing evidence-based practice. So which of, in terms of evidence-based practice, which of the practices, the established practices out there that would tend to be more playful in nature. And this is the kind of list of things that we've got here. Active learning, collaborative learning, cooperative learning, et cetera, et cetera. I'm not gonna go through the list. But the reason that I mention it and the reason I think it's relevant to this conference is because the next piece of research that we're gonna be doing on here is we're gonna be taking this report and we're gonna be thinking about if we put a technology layer over that, how can technology contribute to these types of actively engaging teaching and learning pedagogies so that we're developing learning through play with technology, if that makes sense. Because at the moment, there's not a body of research that really pulls that together in one place. We've got isolated examples of it, but not a body of research that pulls that together in one place. The interesting thing for me, I think about all of these types of practice here, to go back to my picture inside the Lego house that I used at the start of the slide show, is that for me, they link into one of the academics, famous academics that was mentioned in yesterday's keynote, which was Seymour Pappet, in the context of teaching logo back in the 1960s, one of the early pioneers of artificial intelligence. And Pappet had this great kind of phrase that the best learning activities for students, and I guess he was really talking about offline, but I think he would now talk about online as well and things would change, is there are activities that have got a low floor and they've got a high ceiling. So activities that are accessible to all, but different students at different places within their learning journey can climb those steps, either quicker or slower than others, in order to progress with their learning. And the whole concept of, of course, having the high ceiling is this whole idea about open-ended learning activity. So the learning just doesn't stop. Now that's a real challenge for us, if we think about online education, because quite often, online education and formal education systems come to an end. We talk a lot about, yeah, lifelong learning. Yeah, but actually, we don't, and we talk about the skills that are there to develop lifelong learning, but quite often, actually, the courses come to an end, the year group within the school comes to an end, and everything has a bit of a kind of hard stop. So thinking about how are we not just giving the kids the skills, but how are we designing learning activities that have got this high ceiling in order for them to progress. Mitresnik, again, from the media lab, who's one of the, who interestingly now has got the title, Legate Papa, Professor of Play, or Professor of Learning Research, added to this metaphor around the whole notion of we've got a low floor, we've got a high ceiling, but we also need wide walls. And that's about choice, and that's about personalization. And he does make a distinction between the difference between choice and also personalization, because quite often, we can give students a lot of choices, but that doesn't mean it's personalized to the learner thinking about that. And again, various other people have eviterated with this over the years around windows, ramps, and ladders, and all of these terms are linked to accessibility and how we work. So I guess as we're thinking about designing these online, playful learning environments, keeping this idea of low floors, high ceilings, wide walls in mind is a really, really important thing about what we do. Otherwise, we're really just reinventing the past, but in a digital way. And then we've got kind of iterative, and we've done lots of iterative activities this morning, but iterative in terms of how do we try things out? So how do we imagine something? How do we then go and create something just like we did this morning? How do we play with it to sort of get it work? How do we make it look a bit more like a duck? How do we kind of share our knowledge and feelings around that? How do we reflect on it? How do we reimagine it? How do we get on with it? There's kind of these big iterative loops that go around in circles, and circles, and circles. And iteration gives us a great opportunity to talk a little bit about creativity, and that's what we'll just do for the last a few minutes of the talk. So second part of audience participation, who believes that children are more creative than adults? I don't, by the way, but I like to put my hand up to see if people will just copy me. So I don't. Now, I might be wrong about that, but my personal belief is I don't, but I just like to put my hand up to see, all right? And you probably think into yourself, well, children must be more creative than adults because I've seen this TED talk which has been viewed several million times. And in this TED talk, there's definitely a piece of research which is quoted in there from Head Start in the UK, which also references NASA, by George Land, which suggests that when children are five years old, they're 98% creative, right? And when they're an adult, they're 2% creative. Now, I've got, obviously, you know, as academics, it's very easy to think about, well, actually how on earth was this measured in the first place? And secondly, you know, and secondly, the interesting thing about this, and one of the researchers at the Lego Foundation, Dr. Louis Spokur, she was tasked to kind of go out and try and find this research. And she is careful to use the term that the research doesn't exist, but what she will say is that she can find no evidence of it existing. And in fact, when she spoke to the people from, this isn't Ken Robinson's fault, by the way, you know, he was probably informed that it did exist or he was using it or it's quoted from somewhere else. But when she spoke to the people from NASA about it, they described it as an urban myth. So it's interesting, you know, it's interesting around that. And I'm not saying for a moment that young people aren't more creative. I don't believe that. And the reason that I don't believe that is partly because the body of evidence has also changed, but partly because I think we get confused in our words. And giving an example about this is that when I was younger, I used to have a tree house. And I had great plans for this tree house. I wanted it, for example, to have a ladder going up to it, which it eventually did. But I also wanted it to have a pole that came down electricity in a swimming pool. And not only are there some very obvious health and safety concerns, right, with my plan of doing this, but actually, you know, as a child, my mum might have said, oh, Ollie's really, really creative. But actually, I wasn't that creative at all. What I was, of course, is I had a good sense of imagination. And if we look at the research, like over the last decade in particular, what we do know now, of course, is that creativity is not the same as imagination. And sometimes we get those words like confused, and sometimes we use those terms interchangeably. And of course, if we really want young people, or if we really want students to be creative, again, it comes back to that term, how do you become creative in context? If we're gonna produce creative products and creative services and creative solutions, it's got to be useful for someone. Right, it's got to be useful for someone. So what we know now, what the research says now, is that really, if we want to be creative, then we're gonna, or if we want to encourage the creative process, we need that kind of combination of originality, and we need appropriateness. We need it to converge somewhere in the middle. And there are lots of different examples of this, and we could spend time looking at this, but we need to sort of try and merge the two together. So the second question, children learn more flexibly than adults. Do you agree or disagree? I'm putting my hand up to agree. Of course, I could be lying now. What do we think? So I do agree with this one around this. There's lots of evidence to suggest that this might be true. It's why the first 1,000 years of child development is really, really important, because as young people are growing up, they learn stuff incredibly quickly. We had that lovely example yesterday with Instagram at the front about how a young person is learning and soaking up that information straight away. What's my point? Well, my point here is that if we really want young people or learners to be creative, then probably what we need is we need children and adults working together in co-creative teams. And by this, I don't just mean working together, I also mean learning together. So in terms of developing the skill of creativity, like within our schools and within our classrooms and universities, the challenge here might be this question. So in your class or school, how often the children and adults learn together? Now you can replace that within your college or university. How often do learners and teachers or lecturers learn together or work on something new? And my answer to this is that this probably doesn't happen a lot. I meet a lot of teachers and I meet a lot of lecturers and a lot of professors that say, I learn a lot from my students, but very rarely do they say, I learn a lot with my students. They might learn a lot from them, in terms of who they are, but actually learning with them is something that we don't do very often. Yet, very, very important in terms of developing the creative process, it's really important that adults and children are learning together. So what am I saying here? Just kind of want to sum up this part because I do think it's important. I'll just be careful what I say here to make sure I get my kind of wording right. So I think it would be fair to say that children are not the creative geniuses, are not creative geniuses, but we've got a huge amount to learn from them. And we must be, as adults or responsible adults, be really, really careful not to communicate that the highest form of learning is expertise. That said, adults are certainly not creative failures, and we should be careful not to shame one another for knowledge and expertise, which is needed to bring these ideas into reality, which is the important part. And that leads us, of course, to the next question, which is around, well, how do we teach creativity? And again, coming back to Seymour Pappert, and all of the things he says is that we invite children to create new things. We invite children to build new things. And there's loads and loads of examples of this, and we do a lot of work around this. One of the examples that we do quite often is just using these kind of like household objects, little electric motors. Pappert was obsessed with electric motors and vibrations. A lot of these ideas come from that and pens and different workshops for adults and also for children as well. And the whole idea behind this is that you kind of build a unique machine, and this unique machine kind of creates this unique pattern. And there's something about that which is incredibly meaningful for the young person as part of it because they've been part of it. And there's obviously no Lego that's involved in any of this here. But there are other things where we could use Lego or other bits and pieces. This is an activity called Sky Parade. I was working on this workshop down in South Africa with these South African teachers, and we were building and iterating and kind of making these cable cars that sort of come out from nowhere. And you can see the different designs that we've got here and that feeling of joy and excitement on different people's faces as they came up and one catches up with the other. And we've got one here which is not quite as successful. A different one and a different design. But this idea of making things and kind of creating things. And then we do a lot of thinking again with our partners at MIT around kind of scratch, visual programming language, and how do we take the concept of Lego blocks and put that into the digital realm. So making things, a lot of work around, well, it's not just about following instructions, but how can we actually get kids to start with the basics, that kind of low floor, and then iterate on their own designs to solve new problems in terms of robotics but actually really trying to get kids to create, to make. And I had this kind of massive concern at the moment that a lot of education products that come out of there are really all about solving puzzles rather than about kids working on projects. And there's nothing wrong with solving a puzzle, but I kind of think that the skills associated with solving one puzzle can kind of be transferred to the other, but solving a problem, a real problem, problems are different and how do we get more of that into our learning and our teaching? And the things that I've talked about there are obviously these kind of like robotics, making tinkering, creative coding, pulling these things together. But again, it's for me, it's about working together and making things work in these kind of collective teams. And I'm just gonna slip through these, I thought I'd deleted them, but I hadn't. So for me, the thing that kind of binds all of those activities together and playfulness and the use of technology is this word curious. And I'm passionate about this word and the reason I'm passionate about this word is because I believe that if we can really develop curious people, then curious people tend to be playful in nature. And I think that we can really use these to sort of try and tackle some of the problems that we've got. And I guess sort of my final remark would be is that in terms of developing curious people, we also cannot forget that as educators, wherever we work within the system, very, very young children to older lifelong learners, that we can't forget that we're in the business of developing people or we're in the business of developing curious people. And my key kind of takeaways from the talk would really be around, if we're really trying to develop people, we need to go back and we really need to understand what do these people need? What do people need? What are we trying to do? Local context, national context, international context, not the other way around a lot of the time, because need is very much a local and it's very much a personal thing. Then we need to understand, well, what are the skills, that we need in order to help with this? Again, we talk about creativity, but creativity can mean so many different things of different people, depending on the local context. The creativity skills that you need in East Africa are very different to the creativity skills, for example, that you might need in Edinburgh. So what is the actual skill, we need to unpack the skill, it can't just be these kind of hollow words. And then we need to understand how to develop the skill to suit the need. So the unpacking has got to be around the need and it's got to be around the skill and then we need to think about how we link both of the things together. And if we get that, and if we've got curious people, then I honestly believe, honestly believe that we can move the whole system forward. And we can move the whole system forward by encouraging teachers and lecturers to think about looking inwards, looking outwards, and looking forwards, being curious all the time, developing practice, developing pedagogies, developing technology solutions in order to meet these learner outcomes. So I've talked a lot there. I've talked about some, been a bit of a journey in terms of some of the work we've done in the Lego Foundation and how that links into play and how it links into technology. And hopefully there might be some takeaways for some people to take away in terms of context. Certainly hopefully there's some things to think about. I personally don't think I've been talking about very much than this. And I like to use this slide, particularly in Edinburgh. It's also very useful in Denmark when it rains a lot. Because I don't think, I think a lot of what I've hopefully been talking about over the last little while really has been an awful lot of common sense. But I think that sometimes in our jobs we forget about the common sense because we get burdened with all of the other pressures that come in. And sometimes it's just a case of being able to step back and to think to ourselves, right, what are we actually trying to do in terms of developing people? What do people need? What are the skills they're gonna need for the need and how do two of these things come together? And how can we do that in a curious and hopefully playful way? So, thanks very much. Is this on? This seems not to be working. Ollie, thank you very much indeed. That was a great keynote and great start to day three. There's a lot of love for your keynote and a lot of enthusiasm for what you were saying both on Twitter and in VVox. What I think I'll do is we'll just go to the floor just now and see if anyone has a first question. We've got Sheila down here. Thank you very much, Ollie. That was a great keynote. And I'm so happy I have a duck. I think it's really interesting about play but as you were talking, what was going through my head was questions of power and power dynamics and actually how people, quite a lot of people are scared of play. So how do you think we can start to make those cultural changes around people not being scared of play? And I was thinking particularly in more online environments when we're thinking more about individual things and I think there's just a lack of play and curiosity and creativity because we have these bigger things coming in and it's just like you go through tick, tick, tick. Just wondering if you had any thoughts on that. So I don't know if I've got the answer to that but maybe two statements which might be useful. One of the things is that in terms of education systems we're sat in a country at the moment that's possibly got the license for the most playful education system in the world other than New Zealand in many ways. The license to play within formal education within Scottish schools is incredibly powerful. Helped by the fact that the quite recent announcement from the nickel surgeon around the fact that the willingness to enshrine the UN Convention of Human of Child Rights into law which includes the right to play and of course the child is defined from zero to 18 which is a really useful thing as well. And I guess the other thing is that we spend a lot of time as a Lego Foundation this is maybe a criticism of some of what we do. Working with countries that aren't as playful we're trying to build up a bit of momentum at the moment for actually going out and working within countries and with the context where the system and the structures are in place to see whether we can meet in the middle somewhere. So I'm not sure I'm really answering your question but there's a commitment there to do things. The other thing I think about online environments is if we went back to that slide that I showed showing the continuum of play and I was trying to link that into the continuum of online environments is I think that at the moment and I think we're seeing a change in this but I think in a lot of online environments people have been very, very obsessed with the term gamification like over time and although I'm not saying that there's not a time and a place for gamification just like there is a time and a place for games within play, you know, play is more than that. So if we've kind of got that gamification bit right-ish you know, in some online environments how do we now work towards the other spectrums and the continuance to make that work? So I'm not really sure I've answered your question but I do think there's a place in terms of policy and linking policy together and I do think there's a place in terms of well, you know, we've already got a bit of this in online environments but it's a narrow view of what play is. How do we now work around the edges to make that better in a more open-ended way? Great, thank you. We have a number of questions on VBOX as well. I wonder if we can really take the way or is it? Yes, the middle one, which would be something that I think a number of us might be thinking about. Do you think our education systems format us in a way that make us not use our natural creativity? Yeah, I think that's true and it kind of maybe links into the first question for us is that I do, the more and more I've thought about this and I've been doing a lot of thinking about this certainly over the last five years and the more and more I've read on it and the more I've become absorbed in it since it's joined the LEGO Foundation is there's definitely something in that co-creation between the child and the adult coming together to make and to create things but quite often I think within schools and sometimes I've been further in higher education settings, there's that power dynamic so it still is all about the knowledge transfer rather than about actually making new things and making that work. So from that point of view I do think that the system can stifle creativity in terms of making that work and I also think that certainly within schools is that there's not always the time and space for things to be creative because quite often if we think about the creative process the creative process is always associated with a huge amount of failure whereas quite often in schools failure is associated with the wrong thing, we're doing the wrong thing so we gear a lot of education in schools towards success which translates to spoon feeding which is not helpful for the creative process and I think we've got some major challenges ahead as PISA 2021 starts to assess creative thinking as part of their thing we've got some major challenges ahead of what that might look like, can you actually assess creativity or creative thinking via a standardized test? Are we then standardizing creativity? I mean these are some big questions that we need to kind of really wrestle with I think in the next couple of years. Great, thank you very much. We'll go back to the floor, are there any questions? One at the very back there and if you could say who you are and where you're joining us from, that would be great. John Traxler from the University of Wolverhampton I wonder when I listen to talks that infrastructure and resources and material issues are presented as barriers and wonder actually if you get beyond those what you reach are barriers in terms of culture so in hearing what you're saying I'm worrying about our words and concepts like innovation, risk taking, play and so on problematic in some cultures inherently even after you've removed any barriers in terms of material assets. Yeah it's a great question and I think there are two points there the first is that if we remove the challenges of resources you know there will be some institutions here that are very well resourced we always want more but there will be some institutions here that are very well resourced and there will be some institutions that aren't but even when these institutions are very well resourced they may be not using that resource to really encourage collaboration between learners and teachers, teachers and teachers in terms of improving practice around that so I do think that we need to work on both of these things in parallel is I don't think that we should become too obsessed with the resourcing we should always keep focusing on that culture first because the resourcing actually if you look at it historically we'll always get there but then when it gets there if the culture's not there you're actually not moving things forward. Thank you John. When we take another question from V-Vox I'm reading it out mainly for the benefit of colleagues that might be watching online could we take Jilly's question how does learning with the class mesh with having clear learning outcomes under somewhat assessment driven education structure? So some of the work that we've been doing around the pedagogy of play as I say has been designed to look at what the playful learning environments within the formal school setting and by formal school setting we mean settings where learning outcomes have to be met so everything that happens within the confines of the system so we think it's possible we've done some work on this in an international school in Denmark we've done some work on this in three very very different schools in the Johannesburg area of South Africa and next week we're kicking off the third stage of the research in three different schools in Boston in the US and I'm telling more of a story here and our idea behind that is that what we're trying to do is trying to kind of create a meta model of what learning through play looks like within the formal setting and to give people the tools to be able to kind of recognize that because once you've got the tools to be able to recognize that within your cultural setting then you can start to think about how does that link into learning outcomes and how can it link into assessment around that as well and I do agree around the assessment question there's a massive amount of evidence sorry there's a massive lack of evidence at the moment and a big gap in the field about learning through play and assessment nearly all of the research literature when we talk about play and assessment is very obsessed with like game metrics particularly in the digital contracts rather than looking at the spectrum of play making that work so I think that's a gap in the field at the moment, yep. Thank you, thank you Ollie we're just a bit on time so with apologies colleagues we didn't have the questions addressed I think the number of questions has probably testament to how engaged people found the keynot so thank you very much we'll give a final thank you to Ollie please Idina's work with Learning Technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change our world for the better Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with multiple or Jupyter Notebook servers Our DigiMap services deliver high-quality mapping data for all stages of education Future developments include a Text and Data Mining Service working with Satellite Data and Machine Learning and Smart Campus Technology Idina's work with Learning Technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change our world for the better Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with multiple or Jupyter Notebook servers Our DigiMap services deliver high-quality mapping data for all stages of education Future developments include a Text and Data Mining Service working with Satellite Data and Machine Learning and Smart Campus Technology Idina's work with Learning Technologies helps to develop skilled data literate students who can change our world for the better Teachers and students can develop and share coding skills with multiple or Jupyter Notebook servers Our DigiMap services deliver high-quality mapping data for all stages of education Future developments include a Text and Data Mining Service working with Satellite Data and Machine Learning and Smart Campus Technology