 I'm Jay Fidel. This is Life in the Law. We have Maya Zemeca, and I pronounce that right, Maya? Yes. Oh, good. Yukari Murakami. We have Jen Zelko. And we have Brian Zane. And they are from a combination of agencies we'll go through right now. And it's all about pro bono helping the community, lawyer organizations helping the community. And the biggest one, am I right about this, Maya, is the Legal Aid Society of Hawaii. That's your organization. Tell me what you do for the Legal Aid Society of Hawaii. So my title is Engagement Specialist. And I mean, to be honest with you, we kind of just created that title when I joined on in this new role. So it incorporates a number of different things that I'm doing with the organization. The first thing is that I'm overseeing the court access to justice room and the self-help centers. So those are throughout the states. We have different centers on each island and also the access to justice room on Oahu. And then the other component of what I do is just kind of managing some of our content and writing things from the back end. So not really things that attorneys would write, but some of our scripts and things that we use for education in the organization. So you provide services free to the public, am I right? We do provide services free to the public, yes. But you have to be eligible. Okay, yeah. That was my next question. Who is eligible? Who qualifies for these services? So we have a number of different criteria. I mean, it's mainly based on your income. So if you are below a certain income and have a type of case that we assist with, so we only deal with civil legal issues. So if you have a civil issue that we handle, you're below a certain income, you're probably eligible for our organization to assist you. So those are mainly our clients. But I do want to say we reach more than just people who are eligible for our services. I mean, that's one of the main goals of this access to justice room and the self-help center is that we actually reach a lot of people who are not eligible for legal aid assistance itself. And this program is a partnership between the Hawaii State Bar Association and the judiciary specifically to address some of those gaps. Yeah, well, why don't we distinguish here early on so people don't feel it's they're all different, but they're all similar and how much they overlap, okay? So we have the Legal Aid Society of Hawaii. I consider that the mothership, but I could be wrong. And then we have access to justice, which is really important, and it's a C.J. Mark Wreckton-Wall's favorite program I think he invented today. And he wants everybody to have access to justice, primarily because you have a better society when you have that. And how does that, you know, similar or different than Legal Aid Society? Oh, I mean, I think there's some overlap there, right? Like, I mean, Legal Aid doesn't compass access to justice, right? I mean, like a lot of our, a lot of our clients would not be able to, you know, have these tools in the legal system if it weren't for us assisting them. But then the access to justice room itself, as well as the self-help centers, and we make that distinction because at the access to justice room, our volunteer attorneys are allowed to give out legal advice. But at the self-help center, they just give legal information. So that's just that's the only difference for the name. But with this program, it's the same goal of access to justice, but these people don't have to be income eligible. So that's the main difference there. Okay. So you're an engagement specialist. I love that title. Maybe we should change it here on the show, make you something else, you know, after listening. But so the question is, how can I get your job? What kind of education do I have to have? What kind of interest do I have to get Maya's job? Because it sounds very interesting. It's an exciting job. You know, I hadn't planned to be doing this necessarily. I used to work on the Legal Aid intake line. And before that, I was an AmeriCorps member with our homeless unit. So I actually got to drive around the island on Oahu, going to homeless shelters and delivering legal services to homeless people that way. So I mean, I think I've been really fortunate with my experiences. And our director kind of just like created this position for me earlier this year. So you're not planning to make a million billion in your career then? No. And you're dedicated to community service, aren't you? I can tell. I am. I really like serving the public. I think that to be able to help people, given the tools to better their life in a way that empowers them and helps the community as a whole, I think that's really fulfilling work. I think a lot of our volunteer attorneys agree with that. I mean, I think that's the reason why a lot of them volunteer. If you have volunteer and paid, both, right? Legal Aid Society, our organization, they're paid attorneys. But at the Access to Justice Room and the Self-Help Center, these are volunteer attorneys. So none of them are paid. We are very appreciative of your services, Maya, and the people that work at the Legal Aid Society of Hawaii. Now, Brian, you are a lawyer, I can tell. It's a certain, you shouldn't say quah, you know. So tell us what you do for Access to Justice. So I'm a volunteer. I usually, it's always on a Friday. So it seems like law firms, why a Friday? It's just a religious connotation to that. No, I don't think so. For some reason, the law firms take Monday and Wednesday. And then individual volunteers get a crack on Friday. Okay, got it. So what do you do? I'm, you mean at Access to Justice? The answer is yes. Okay. So my background is in criminal defense. So I'm a deputy public defender. I've been a deputy public defender for the last 17 out of the last 18 years. And so I was looking for some way to do an outlet for pro bono work. And because I'm a government attorney, I can't take on additional clients pro bono. That's not something we can do. So the Access to Justice Room was this opportunity for me to do pro bono work, as well as touch a different part of the law. So it's all civil stuff. It's primarily landlord tenant, I would say is the number one thing that people come to the Access to Justice Room for. But it's also, it's also TRO stuff and collections. And it's also, you know, some people get referred and they don't really fall into the category, but they're looking for somebody to talk to. Oh, small claims is the other, is the other, I guess, part of the Access to Justice Room. So some people are just coming there because they're wondering about a certain legal question and they get referred. So we try our best. So you're at the point where they're referred out to other lawyers. Is that what? My understanding is somebody may come to district court with a question and the clerks will say, you know, we have this Access to Justice Room. Would you like to speak to an attorney? And then they are referred to the Access to Justice Room. Okay. And you're there manning the room if I can use the term manning here in this context. Yes. So you put a little time in on Fridays and you know, it strikes me that you ought to be pretty busy with COVID because people don't have jobs or money to pay rent. And landlords, am I right? Landlords are not restricted from going after them right now. Is there some sort of, you know, moratorium now and going after delinquent tenants? Anyway, do they come to you and they ask advice about that? Yeah. There has one, I haven't had too many tenants. I've had more landlords because the landlords who we also serve, they're sometimes stuck and they're they're depending on the rent to pay their mortgage. But you know, the focus is more for the tenant. I mean, I think the accommodation in the law is focused on the tenant rather than the landlord. People who landlords often come to the are seeking help from the Access to Justice Room. Yeah. Very interesting. You're on both sides of it. Okay. Do you have you have a traffic with Maya or or Jen or Yukari? Maya. So this is the first time I'm seeing Maya in person. I've only exchanged emails with her. But like a very nice person. She does look like a very nice person. So the Legal Aid Society, they are the facilitator of the Access to Justice Room. So they staff it with AmeriCorps worker who takes the calls and gets a types up a short summary of what the person is calling about and lines up all the callers for me. And I just called them back. That's right now before when we were able to be in the room physically, they would come through the door. Yeah. But she would do the same thing. She would screen the people that are coming to the room. So are you are you dealing on Zoom with people or just telephone calls or what? Telephone calls. Does it work? Yeah, it's good. In fact, I think that's one of the things that I think we're all learning from this experience is we're probably going to be meeting remotely more, you know, even when we can meet physically because it's just so much more convenient and saves a lot of time and going here and there. So, you know, for our purpose, I think it works Yeah, that's good. I'm remembering my own practice. I started practicing in Hawaii in 1971. And I would say to my my partners and peers, I would say, gee, I got I got six or seven meetings today. When would you have a meeting? There's always the there's always the hello and the goodbye and the social comments you have to make and everything. And the actual payload of the meeting was way less, but it always wound up to be at least an hour. And at the end of a day with six or seven physical meetings, I was exhausted. That was a big day. As time went on, we did it on the telephone. That was way better. And I don't think we're going back to physical meetings. I agree with you that we learned a lot about telephone and about zoom now. So, Jen, let's talk let's talk about you. You live in a big island where there's all kinds of having a show about who who knew at noon today you should watch. It's very interesting. I have a lot of things going on in the big island. People think it's far away, but no, no, no, no, it's very close, actually. So what what do you do for what what is it to help center in the big island? The Helo Self Help Center. And I really appreciate you having us all on this morning, Jay. The Helo Self Help Center opened in 2012. And the last report I saw, which was out of 2018, this particular self-help center had helped almost 6,000 people, which, you know, obviously it's over that now. An interesting comment, because I don't want to repeat everything Bryant said, a lot of it is the same. The legal, the legal aid does help facilitate the self-help centers across the islands. But one of the interesting things that I've seen during COVID-19 and having to to pivot to really change to do these telephone calls instead of in person, for a place like the big island where you've got long distances where people have to drive in from Puna or other areas. And there are a lot of transportation issues. I really think the the telephone calls have opened up access to many folks who were not able to use it before. I think that's one of the big lessons. I think we would probably want to continue at least having this as an option. And then I also think, you know, the self-help center is run by, for instance, here in Hilo by our East Hawaii attorneys, East Hawaii bar members. I think it does allow people to be in their office or at their home instead of having to drive to the courthouse, you know, which takes quite a bit of time. You may be talking about half an hour. I think it's easier to volunteer now. Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. That's true. You can do it at home. Makes a lot easier on everybody. Yes. Yeah. So do you ever run into a situation, you or Bryant where, you know, you're in a quote room, whether the room be a room somewhere else or a room in your in your living room or your office at home, where somebody says, you know, thanks for your, you know, directing me and appropriate websites or legal resources and all that. But I need help, Jen. I need a lawyer to work with me every day and to help help me fashion strategies that that are dynamic that change because the other side of this controversy, if you will, is changing all the time. They're beating me up. I need to be able to call you any time of day like I really like a real lawyer, you know, out there in the practicing community who I pay big bucks to, but you're not available. What do you say to that person? Gee, I haven't had that particular comment. I think a lot of times we've either answered the phone or talked with someone who was in very much crisis and they're very upset. Maybe the other side is represented by an attorney. But I think as you kind of talk through it and because you're listening to them and a lot of it, you know, it's legal information for the self help center. We discuss the differences between access to justice centers and legal self help, but it can be very confusing. I think when someone is in crisis, you're trying to tell them, you know, for them to go online themselves and find the forms can be very difficult. So I've only had folks that are really thankful, actually very grateful, especially right now there are a lot of landlord tending cases happening. We also can provide them information like the county has funds available through CARES funding to help tenants. And I think a lot of people don't know about those resources or they're so overwhelmed. They just they can't think about it. So we were able to provide those those kinds of information. We're able to provide them information about mediation programs that are available for free. I think I think it's a big help for someone in crisis. So people are generally very thankful. What's your level of gratification on this? Actually, I it's my favorite part about being an attorney. No joke. I think it's something that most of us, you know, really feel afterwards very good about. I think we're able to use our skills to really help people. And especially right now, I think people could use all the help they can get. Yeah, yeah, big heart. Brian, do you have a big heart also? Was that for me? You have a big heart also? Are you of gratification, you know, psychic benefit, if you will, from helping people outside your normal your normal practice? You know, I'm really fortunate that in my paid job and in my volunteer job, I help people who would otherwise not have access to an attorney. And that is quite gratifying. Yeah. And so I'm quite fortunate that that those are the people that I work with. Yeah, that's great. That's a good reason to do it. I mean, among others. So let's let's turn to you, Yukari. You are on, let me get this right. You're on Maui. Yes. And you're with the Legal Aid Society on Maui. So what traffic do you have with Jen and Maya and Brian? This is my first time meeting Jen and Brian, actually. But Maya, I've worked with her a lot since I helped with the Southern Center of Maui. So I work with Maya with coordinating volunteers and something like this, setting up the Zoom things. Well, that's the big leverage from all the access to judgment of Legal Aid Society, the help centers. It's the leverage of volunteers. We know about that in Think Tech because most of our most of our people are volunteers. They're volunteer citizen journalists. And they get gratification too. It's not exactly the same, but it's similar. Anyway, Yukari, you're here to introduce our mystery guest. Can you tell us in rough terms, why is he our mystery guest and why is he need to be introduced? Okay, so we're honoring our mystery guest is Ben Jamina Cole. He has been over the past year. Ben has signed up for more shifts at the Maui Self-Centered Health Center than anyone else. So we're honoring him today for our pro bono celebration. Ben would often stop by the Southwest Center if he was at the courthouse when we were meeting in person and take up, taking shifts and spontaneously if the center is for staff. For every pro-sale litigant he assisted, Ben would take the time to listen with care no matter how long it took. Both the pro-sale litigants and those who work with Ben alike have expressed admiration, appreciation for not only his legal expertise, but also the way he is able to deliver legal services in a manner that is compassionate and with dignity. I've had pro-sale litigants when I was meeting in person to specifically ask, can I meet with Ben because I've met with him before, he knows my situation, I would like to work with him again. So he's a very easy person to work with. A little about Ben, he is a graduate of Richardson Law School, graduate 1987. When he's not volunteering at the self health center, he works at his own private practice, Benjamin Acoba, attorney at law. He also serves a legal counsel for the Maui Filipino Chamber of Commerce, advocate for the Christ the King Church Council, and co-chair of the worship ministry electors committee. He is also a member of the Knights of the Columbus, an organization that prides itself on putting faith into action. He has illustrated that he truly loves these principles. This year alone, Ben has held hundreds of those in need who have come to the self health center and has improved indispensable and increasing access to justice for those without legal representation. So we'd like to honor Ben today and say thank you, Ben, for all your hours of hard work volunteering with us, and he couldn't be with us today, so that's why I am in his, it's the best. Thank you for coming down and telling us about it. I should mention that, and we have a slide on this, I should mention that October 9th is the the judiciary's celebration of pro bono and volunteer organizations providing access to judgment, access to justice, and providing these self-help centers, providing, you know, the legal aid society program as well. And so everybody's going to be there, except there means on Zoom. It's another there. But this is a big deal because the CJ will be there and, you know, make various awards, including to Ben Acobe, and it'll be a celebration of all those volunteers who make all these programs happen. And, you know, to me, I think they're critical, just one word from me about this is, I feel that the, you know, we have to have a social a social network, a social programs like this to help people in times of need. And this is a time of need. So it's very important that we celebrate the people involved. It's not only the volunteers, you guys, it's you. Thank you for showing up today. Thank you for being involved. I know you're not, none of you was going to make a million billion. I know that. On the other hand, we envy you all for the benefits you provide and the benefits you have. So let's talk about some of the other connections. We have some more slides for Maya to explain, right? Let's let her explain the ones that we haven't covered yet, Maya. More slides. Yes, slides about, let's see, there was one in Kona. You can talk about that. And there was one in Kawhi. You can talk about that. Sure. Yeah. So I mean, we have, we have two more self-help centers. And so we don't, we don't have anyone here from Kona today. We don't have anyone here from Kawhi today, but we still want to recognize those centers because they still, they still offer a lot of people assistance. So for the Kona self-help center, I mean, this one is only open once a week. It's only open on Wednesdays from 11am to 1pm. The other one centers here, like the access to justice room where Bryant volunteers, that's open three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. Maui and Hilo, they're both open twice a week. So Kona only has this one slot a week, but they still manage to help a lot of people. I mean, we're still helping, I want to say between 35 and 55 people a month right now, just with that one spot a week. Kawhi also, Kawhi, I would say is our slowest center, but that's just because, you know, Kawhi is smaller. We have less attorneys available who are volunteering there, but we still manage to help between 10 and 20 people a month on Kawhi as well. So there are rules in the judiciary, isn't it that lawyers are supposed to provide pro bono services? How does that work and how does that, you know, relate to your various programs? So I don't think that there is a requirement for them to provide it every year. You can correct me if I'm wrong on this because I'm not an attorney, but I do think that there are some incentives that we set out to try to make it an attractive option for people. For one thing, we do have a training program that all of our attorneys go through. It's on the Legal Aid website, and once they go through that program, they earn some CLE credits. So that's continuing legal services credits for them that I know they need those. And then also afterwards, when they do actually volunteer for the center or the AJR, they have the option of converting some of their CLE credits into ethics credits. So those are some of the incentives that we try to give attorneys to try to encourage them to volunteer. Yeah, Jen, you're shaking your head because you want to add something to that. Yeah, actually just to add, Maya is correct. Although not required, we do report on our yearly bar registration, how many hours of pro bono that we provide. And there are those certain incentives about getting the training and volunteering a certain amount of times because we are required to get those CLEs. But I also think for a lot of us, we live in very small communities and people obviously need help. And so I think just wanting to kind of build a better community, better quality of life, I think this is a necessary thing to do. And I think we all feel that way. Yeah, you know, Brian, I'd like to ask you sort of a public policy question. Are these programs adequate for the demand for the needs in the community? Are they getting enough funding? Are they getting enough volunteers? If you were a legislator, what would you look at to improve them? What bills should the legislature consider? I'll tell you what I've seen. Right now, I think for the most part, for the most part, and Maya probably could comment on this, the times slots are filled. Occasionally, they might be half a day not filled on Friday because you're just going to get a volunteer here and there. But usually the law firms will staff the Monday and Wednesdays pretty good. They'll cover it. As far as the traffic flow, some days there's more than the space available. So at a minimum, we try to do four in a two hour shift because each person gets a maximum half an hour. Occasionally, there is people that are turned away, but not always. So right now, I think the way it's set up, the hours it's set up, and with the people that are volunteered, it probably is, at least on Oahu, it probably is adequate. And I can't come in on the funding of it. But from what I've seen, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. There's always a staff person helping it along. Maya, would you add anything to that? What would you like to see happen to make these programs work better to facilitate the process and the reach of the programs? Well, what Bryant said is definitely true here on Oahu. I will say some of the neighbor islands, we wish that we were as well staffed as we are on Oahu. So we want more volunteer attorneys, especially places like Maui. That's one reason we wanted to honor Ben Acob today because he is someone who tries to take on extra shifts because we, a lot of the times, even the day of the center being open that day, we don't have attorneys covering the whole time that we're open. So Ben really saved the day, a lot of times for us. Other places, Hilo does have some difficulty. I know Jen can speak to this too, but Hilo, sometimes we have difficulty staffing up our center. I mean, it would be a dream if we could be open more than twice a week. But right now, we just don't have the capacity to do that just with manpower. Okay, Jen, your name has been mentioned. What would you like to Maya? Yeah, you know, I think Maya is correct. I think one of the differences, unfortunately, we don't have the larger law firms, you know, on a neighbor island where you can have, you know, maybe 20, 30 attorneys staff. So here we really rely on our bar members. And there are folks like Ben really that are constantly stepping up and they really are the reason that we've been able to stay open. I think on a lot of these days, the legal aid has been fabulous about reaching out, especially even last minute. Do we have any other volunteers? One of my thoughts really is with being able to take the phone calls, you could have folks on different islands helping out with the overflow. I think that was one of the things that was talked about. Yeah, well, yeah, with phone calls and Zoom and the like, you know, it doesn't matter what island you're on. So if you have a surplus, I shouldn't say a surplus, but if you have available lawyers in one island that can service people on other islands, then there's really no downside to that. We're almost out of time. So, Kari, I know this is terribly unfair, but I'd like you to have the last word here. I'd like to summarize what you've learned today, what you want to leave with the people. Oh, thank you, everyone, for and Brian DeGene working so hard at the South Health Centers on Access Justice Centers. Thank you, Jay, for having us opportunity to talk about South Health Center, the Access Justice Center. It's an important mission for all of us to be able to provide legal information, legal advice to those in need who may not be able to afford it. So thank you very much for this opportunity. And thank you to all you guys. Thank you, Kari. Thank you, Jen. Thank you, Brian. And thank you, Maya, for coming down. Appreciate it. A little hot to all of you.