 Welcome everybody. I'm excited to see everybody here and I'm excited to have Chris join us today to talk about some interesting ways to ramp up your resources for some projects you might have on the go. A little bit about me and how I got involved with TechSoup. I've been involved in IT one second. I've got some background noise going on. Can you guys be quiet please? The joy of having kids at home and everyone in small condo. Sorry guys. And so I've been involved in IT for over 20 years. And I've been implementing operational systems for everything from nonprofits to small businesses to large organizations and government entities as well. I'm Google Cloud certified so I've been focusing lately on helping nonprofits get on Google for nonprofits as well as Google's G-Speed for nonprofits. And I know Eli presented a great little package there and the one thing kind of missing from there is the fact that Google for nonprofits is actually free, which is a great resource for all the nonprofits that we need to work more efficiently together. And I've been passionate about helping small businesses and nonprofits work more efficiently and implement better systems because I'm also the president of a nonprofit. So I am the president for the One Parent Families Association of Canada and I've been doing that for about a year but I've had a meetup group for that that's ran longer. One of my love for nonprofits and my love for technology led me to find NetSquared here and I saw they were looking for a Toronto organizer so I stepped up and I'm really excited to be here with everybody. And like Eli said, please reach out to me if you have any suggestions or want to become involved or want to present anything, would love to hear from you guys. So I am going to stop talking now so we can pass this on to Chris who's got a great presentation for you guys. And if you have any questions throughout just pop it in the chat and I'll interrupt him and see if we can get that answered. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Sandra. And Eli, thank you for that great introduction. Awesome to see all the amazing packages you could give to nonprofits help them save money make things more efficient. I'm going to get started by sharing my screen right away. Super excited today to talk to everyone about modernizing your workforce. So there's some amazing platforms that exists like Upwork, Top Talent Fiver, that you could really leverage to be more productive both with your work or even personally and actually save money. So really excited for this chat today and hope ever get a lot out of it. Let's start things off with a quote. There are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks where decades happen. I felt like this really encapsulates the last 12 months well where a lot of organizations had maybe a 10 year plan to modernize a workforce to integrate new technologies, but all of a sudden coven 19 happens. The years were consolidated into what few weeks a few months, and you had to rapidly change the way your business operated the way your nonprofit operated to become more modern but also decentralized everyone's working from home. So there's a lot of implications of this and adapting to this key. And a lot of businesses have so right now 53% of companies and nonprofits have moved to more flexible talent. And what does that actually look like so in America, the number of freelancers that existed well from 2015 to 2020. There has been a 20% increase in the freelancers and that's expected to go up to 80 million by 2025. This is a substantial amount of the workforce. So a lot of these freelancers, a lot of them tend to be a bit younger. So in my age group to 25 to 34s, we're looking for more flexibility on where and when to work or choosing which projects to want to work on, on having direct bosses and more flexibility. So this isn't a temporary thing this is a complete shift and to help businesses operate into who the higher and how they hire. So the knowledge and the experience to understand how to leverage this workforce will be critical. Before we dive into anything I want to give a quick intro about who I am. So my name is Chris I'm from Toronto Canada. I'm a graduate from my top business school here, three time founder. I had one successful exit and one's actually current on on a million dollar revenue pace per year, just great. I work 30 businesses across 15 different industries from nonprofits to real estate to private equity media, food and beverage fashion, I've seen a lot of different industries, which allows me to really distill business principles to its core fundamentals. I understand how to apply it amongst any industry. I'm a Canadian delegate for the United Nations. Most recently, I will prior to Kobe you're able to travel. Most recently I was in Madrid to represent the not the private sector for Canada at the COP 25, which is the climate change conference. So today we're going to look for three key things one outsourcing what it actually is it's how do you figure out what task outsource, then it's finding talent and then finally managing that talent. All three of these are critical. The first outsourcing 101 so why should you outsource. How could you decide which role should be outsourced. And how can you answer some of your own tasks. So going from both business and even person outside of business. So this is a quote from a high level executive from a company called Ranger labs it's a technology company they deal with more business technologies. So just as our success is very much tied to how we use freelancers every day. The cost of savings savings are great but the real value is getting a distributed expertise. I got so many more brains working on a problem that I could never get hiring employees. So two things one the cost savings, but to the distributed expertise. I actually recently worked with a client who was headquartered in Singapore, the CEO was in the Ukraine. Their seat, chief technology officer was in South Africa, the head of product was the United States designer was in Italy, had a workforce crossing entire world. The reason being is because he was just looking for the best talent. So now people who are working previously just competing within your own city now compete globally. So you could find the best talent for the within your price range, making it much more competitive for freelancers, but much more effective for businesses and nonprofits to hire. So how do you decide which roles to outsource. This is a key question to use this I'm going to first walk through an example. Let's say you have a project, and you have a budget allocated towards it let's say it's a $50,000 budget for the year. And it's a fundraising event to throw this event to raise money for your nonprofit. Well, if we were to break that down let's say there's probably more components but just high level, there's money going to people, there's money going to events, the money going to marketing and then money going to admin. Break that down even further, and people you have some bank coordinators you have customer service sales event you have the venue you have food and beverage auction gifts, if it's not donated for the marketing of online offline to measure and report everything to making sure you're reaching your fundraising goals, and then admin you have accounts receivable and payable their software etc. If all these expenses and moving pieces within one thing called a project to eat the budget for. But the thing is within each of these you have a lot of opportunity to outsource and by outsourcing I don't mean completely replace a role. I mean, well that is one option but a second option is to complement a role to make your current employees and team members more efficient and effective. So let's take an example of marketing. So marketing we have online and offline within online marketing let's say we have Instagram Google ads Facebook ads webinars press all these different opportunities there's more. All of a sudden you have the opportunity to find talent to help manage your Instagram your Google ads your Facebook ads, all this talent is easy to find a commodity to get a really good price for high quality. And you could do something as big as high outsource for a marketing manager to manage all the online, manage online and offline or just find a specialist who knows Instagram really well. So let's say we do that let's say we find a specialist who knows Instagram really well. So Instagram has all these tasks, if the design posts to the right captions to organize and schedule posts engage with followers measurement reporting. This is a lot to do for one person. So by hiring extra talent, you don't have to hire a full time employee and all the costs that come with that. You could hire a specialist on the platform like upward which we'll get into later, who could really complement your team to help you allow you to focus on the better move the needle much more but delegate the things that are still necessary to do. And in terms of thinking about costs are saying of course how am I going to save money because I thought I'm paying an additional employee. Well let's say you earn $50 an hour if it were to break it down out. And you hire a freelancer that's worth $20 an hour, hypothetically, one you may think oh I'm spending $20 an hour, but the better way to think about it is actually saving $30 an hour. The reason being is now that hour that you had to do let's say managing that Instagram page, you could reallocate and focus more on tasks that are driving dry progress within your nonprofit or within your personal life. Things that are that are worth $50 now are not tasks that are worth 20. So by spending 20 you get to refocus on things that push or progress you forward and in doing so become more productive and more effective. So now let's go into how you can elsewhere some of your own tasks. So either within your company or yourself. And here there's a framework to use it's a well known framework but I really want to drive it home because of how powerful it actually is. It's called the Heisenhower matrix. Some of you may have already heard of it but it's good walking through. It has two accesses so reporting and not important and how you define important is up to you. So for example in my business I actually define it based on if it's or it could be potentially a revenue driver for one of my businesses or if it's not. And then urgent and not urgent. Does it have to be done today or the next week is there is a time sensitive or not. And with each of these accesses there's a certain quadrant and in that quadrant, it defines tasks differently. So you have the important and urgent tasks. So this is what you actually the focus on what you have to do. They're both add a lot of value to your business and your nonprofit, and they're time sensitive. So for example, let's say you run your nonprofit and you have this fundraising event, and you have a sales pitch next week to a large potential donor. That's very important and it's very urgent that has to go here and you have to do it. You have tasks like this, but the next quadrant is where a lot of the magic actually happens, the non urgent and important tasks. Here you have to decide and do so schedule it. The reason why this is a lot of where a lot of the magic happens in terms of growth for your nonprofit in terms of growth for your impact and your or your business is because these are the things no one's watching over you to do. So I'm asking you to let's say, for example, find a create a new fundraising strategy to have a stronger nonprofit. You could always do the same, but to grow your impact. These are the tasks you have to do they're more long term tasks not urgent but very important to do. And these you have to schedule and really prioritize it in your day. The third quadrant is the not urgent and non important these tasks to delete. So let's say it's as simple as scrolling through that your social media page throughout the day. You can be doing that because it distracts another time and it doesn't increase. It has no importance to your business and no urgency. You could always book a specific time to do more relaxing things like watch Netflix or Instagram this is just an example, but it shouldn't be part of your day to day work. And finally, which is part of the topic of conversation is delegate. It's not important, but it's urgent. These are the tasks you give give out to freelancers to work on. They're time sensitive. They don't accomplish any big goals specifically. So for example, I know it's bad timing but travel booking scheduling social content. Amazon purchases, replying to every email not every email is important for you to reply to data entry there's so many potential tasks you could outsource. And these goals in the delegate quadrant. So how do you actually use this. What you do is you take this quadrant you take every single task you have to do within your week, let's say it's meetings or work tasks or personal tasks, and you have to put it in one of these four boxes. And you start to realize how much, how much stuff you were doing that wasn't actually important, because if everything's a priority nothing else. The first time I actually implemented this matrix in my own life. I completely ignored anything below that urgent line. And just to see what my work life would be like just by focusing on the tasks that are truly important and never had a more productive week my life. So by delegating and deleting you individually become more productive and more effective as an employee as an individual to maybe it's in your loved ones or yourself and health and wellness or your business and nonprofit. Before we get into the finding those outsourcing one on one before we get to finding talents. Is there any specific questions we could look into. Otherwise we can leave it for the end it's not a problem I can't see the comments unfortunately. I don't see any questions that have come in yet. So I think you're good to keep going. Let me know what we can always say that for the end if you have. Yeah, so high level now that we know what to outsource so you have you figure out within your organization, what should be outsourced. Why it's important to outsource it's not cost it's an actual saving them to how to prioritize your own tasks or some of your own work. But secondly now it's how do you actually find this talent once you know what to outsource how do you find people to do the work. So we're going to go through the overview of Upwork Fiverr and top tells and great platforms. We're going to use upwards an example and how to hire freelancer just to keep it focused and some tips and tricks to find the perfect freelancer. So I have a lot of experience hiring freelancers with the only platform so I'm excited to share a lot of this with you. So the three platforms you have Fiverr Upwork and top tell and the reason I chose these three because there's much more like in Australia there's freelancer.com which is a very big one. But these are the three I want to focus on because they target different types of work. So the things I want to look over is unique selling proposition, the approval process for the freelancers who are you actually hiring the number of job categories and the deal project type. So first is Fiverr it's a very large and they're going to need selling problems job starting at $5. When it comes to the freelancers that they bring on, it's quite lenient you just got to have proof of identity so driver's license and email confirmation is pretty simple. But they have a vast range of job categories from logo creation, graphic design, maybe business plans, etc. But because they have a they're very lean in the approval process the talent pool tends to be a bit weaker or skew towards the top and those who have a large volume work so it's meant for more short term entry level projects. The second is Upwork and this is actually my favorite platform. And on Upwork you could hire the perfect freelancer for all project types. So as we see later in the job description you could choose between entry level work, intermediate work or expert level freelancers based on your budget and based on your job description. The filtering is actually quite strict so they actually get on as a freelancer you go through a filtering process and if your skill set is in high supply, then you probably won't actually get a profile because they don't need you as an add on. And if your portfolio is we'd be still still filter you out. Do you have a vast range of job categories you could get anything on here so I've actually done data work with freelancers here. I've hired a virtual assistant I've hired developers graphic designers, you can really find someone for anything. And it's meant for all project scope so what I like about Upwork is its flexibility based on what you actually need. The final is Top-Tel. Now Top-Tel is really meant for like they're in the beginning they're geared more towards technology companies, but they're starting to expand outside of that. And their key value proposition is they hire the top 3% freelancers. So they have an extremely strict filtering process that starts with a test to make sure you actually have like adequate knowledge on the topic. And they filter you through various interviews and case studies, until they only get the top 3% of talent pool that actually applies. And they filter job categories so it's more like project management, product management development, etc. And it's meant for mid to long term expert level contracts. So the reason I want to bring all three of these up is there's a platform for whatever need you potentially can have. So entry level ones, Top-Tel being those complex team based projects, you could hire an entire team on Top-Tel, and they have Upwork, which is very, very flexible, you can hire freelancers or agencies on it. It has a lot of power to it. So let's go through an example. Just focusing on one to keep it simple. We're going to use Upwork to source and hire talent. There are four steps so identify your need, create your job posting, filter and invite talent and hire. So let's go to identify your need, taking that example from the beginning of my presentation. So I say you're a marketing manager who needs assistance with Instagram, and you're executing on post planning design and schedule your budget for this is around $20 an hour. Great. Now that you know what you need to get done, then you could have a better understanding what your job posting shouldn't tell to then find the perfect person for that job. So that's your job posting. On Upwork, you have to write, you get started to short term or long term project of your title description details, the experience levels talking about the visibility so you can actually make it private to only those you invite. You can make it available to anyone on Upwork. The budget for the project that's based on hourly based on projects, so you actually choose what your budget is, and then you publish it. So a lot of key tips and tricks I want to walk through later on how to actually write a really, really good job description. Once you have it posted, you have to filter and invite talent. So there's, if it's difficult to see I'll explain what you're looking at so you have a filter button, and you can filter based on amount earned so that's basically a derivative of experience level on Upwork, the success score, hourly rates, talent types of agencies or freelancers, English level because it is an international platform, how necessary is it for them to be fluent in English, and the category. So once you have it filtered, you then search and you can invite talent. So here's a list of all potential talent I could have invited to the job based on my job description and based on my filters. And once you find your talent, you go through an interview process and you hire one. You click, all you have to do is click hire talent you decide and you finalize if it's an hourly rate what the hourly rate is, what the weekly limit is, in terms of earnings for them so you could manage your budget, the work description you click higher, and you can manage the talents. So it's really simple and straightforward and intuitive. Now top talent I just wanted to bring this up because not all platforms are like this. And I handhold you because they are more focused on bigger projects more expensive projects. Here you actually talk to one of their experts, they figure out what you need for you, and they, they work with you to hand select talents, this has an average of 24 hours to do so, and they have a perfect fit for you. So you have an intermediary finding the talent for you. One leads to less, less choice, which is actually a good thing because you know what you're getting this quality. And to it actually increases the likelihood of success on the project because you have someone filter. So different platforms have different processes but Upwork seems to be the one common and amongst other platforms. So different tricks on this. This is key because I've done a lot of hiring on Upwork for my own businesses. And the key I found is knowing how to write a post and following these tricks to find the best talent. So the first one is writing a detailed job. First off, Upwork has an algorithm on who your talent with the best fit talent is and that's based on a lot of the keywords in your job description. So ensuring that you're writing a job description as detail oriented is key, but also secondly, higher quality freelancers respect job postings that have more detail because they're putting more time into it and it feels like the process is more serious. So writing a detailed job posting is great you'll you'll be surprised at how many job postings are just very general and simple and it's it causes less talent to want to apply. And two, it's a creative test for each step in the hiring process. So the steps that's like the women to be for is first writing a job posting I would usually always put a sentence like if you're reading this right the word banana in your cover letter something random like that to show that they actually read through it in detail. And then once they apply to the job and they pass that test then I get them test based on the job I was firing for. So for example, at one time I was hiring for a data entry job. And the first job posting was to see if they how well they could do managing Excel files. Once they pass that filter at a second task which was finding leads for me in Canada. It was a very small one that says 10 leads and based on the quality of that I had a final interview video interview with the remaining candidates. I wanted to filter talent and not waste my time video interviewing everyone set a step in each stage in the process that filter people out. Third is to start with a small project and then scale responsibilities. So, every time I hire someone I'd always start hourly, see how they work with me see the quality of their work. And then once they gain my trust, then we work into larger projects and integrate them more into my day to day to allow me to outsource roles with them organization or specific tasks that I have. And finally is to standardize the process. These are tips and tricks I'm sharing with you but I have a certain process that I have with myself that every time this is what I have in a job posting these are the things I want to list. I'm searching for talent. This is how I search this way it's scalable and I can, as my businesses or the nonprofit scale, you could also give this sort of playbook to other employees to leverage. So that's finding talents, it's quite simple on one of these platforms they make it easy for you to do, but there are ways to do it on a more expert level to make sure you find the best talent. And now once you have that talent, the final step is managing it. So let's dive into that. So how do you manage freelancer and how do you keep track of outsource talent. So how do you manage freelancers on these platforms, well, there's a tab called my hires and up work and here this is a list of actual hired people that I've hired in the past, and you can see a list of every single person you've hired before. So let's say I had a similar job that I really like the freelancer worked on it, I could click rehire give them the job posting and it's super simple to actually interact with them. There's also leverage outside technology we're talking about G Suite, there's Excel, and there's also a platform that's called air table that I really love. And there you just, you can do it on any one of these platforms you have a list of all your freelancers, you see what department they're in. That way you can see all right I need a developer. And you can see a list of all the developers you have or I need a accountant to list of all the accounts you've worked with in the past or bookkeeper sorry. And with that you could choose your talent accordingly. That's another way to do it. So I covered some of the price, the dollar amounts here but this is a freelancer I actually worked with and currently working with. And here I could see exactly what the budget is, how much has been been paid, what the tasks are and what she has to still do. And I could see, I could see the progress of the project. And then within the same area there's also messages and files so I could attach all files that are that are necessary for this project so here she's actually just redesigning my logo. And I have a logo design brief that I attached we we message here so I don't actually leave Upwork as a platform. They have a great mobile apps that's where I do all my messaging on it. And that's it. So we went through today outsourcing 101. We looked at finding talents, how to leverage these platforms to do so and then managing talent. Once you've hired them how do you actually manage them and control them on these platforms, and all could be done on for example Upwork it's all done in the platform, and you can leverage outside platforms to to enable this. Thank you for listening. I don't want to give anyone zoom fatigue because I know these presentations could be overwhelming if it's longer than 20 minutes so I'll leave it there open up to any questions. If you have or any problems you're facing we could spend the last few minutes discussing. So the last few minutes discussing any problems you have. Thank you. That was great Chris, and a fun fact I actually met Chris through Upwork because I was looking for some help and that's how we came to know each other so it's a great cool. I was really excited that you mentioned air table and somebody else Eli is mentioning air table as well. I've been, I've checked it out a little bit but it's ever you want to do another presentation on air table for us that would be cool. Yeah, no that'd be super fun. It looks really neat it looks really powerful to I just I haven't had too much time to play with it. It's a more of a visual. It's not as powerful Excel is Excel in terms of numbers and managing financials, but it's really powerful if you're trying to manage projects and if you use to use Excel for that eight tables are great replacement because they have cell options that allow for images or URLs or attachments and it all can really really organized and the filtering is really really strong really powerful. I like to do what managing, for example, people I do manage my freelancer through your table because it allows me to organize by department and connect other your table so it's a it's a great platform for sure. Hi there so this is Eli. So I've often yes struggled around the job description part. And then I do have been thinking about but haven't really started doing it is, do you sometimes maybe document out some workflows are like with a quick screen capture and make a quick video or how are you basically documenting out the required workflow so someone who's in a different time zone, maybe English isn't their first language is able to sort of follow through your expectations. And it's very professional. And it's very contextual. So, let's take that exact, let's take an example let's say you have a blog, and you want blog post to be posted. That's a specific process there's no creative thinking in there. What you can do I use some great platforms and I could type them in the chat. So I did your video art is actually a Canadian company moves to American one phenomenal screen reporting apps. So all I do is record my process, and then I write out the process. If it's something that I want to standardize and I don't want opinions or creative thinking on. Because of that, I don't need someone who's fluent in English, I don't need someone who's in my time zone, I could send them the project. I could just get it done with the same process. Right. But now let's say you're hiring someone that necessitates more thinking more delivery, maybe it's strategy work, maybe it's marketing work, whatever it is. What all of a sudden now your job description changes your filtering changes. Maybe it is a, let's say you're hiring a virtual assistant, well, you're going to need someone every day to chat with it makes sense for them to be in North America or with close within your time zone. If you're hiring someone's a marketing manager. Copywriting is a big part of that now it's a necessity to hire someone who's fluent in English, where times are still not a factor. So just think through the job you're outsourcing. And then within that job you could figure out, okay, what do I need within these filters, do they have to be within my country to my time zone. Do they have to be fluent in English, or, and do they need me to handle them within the process. So it's really contextual. Well, yeah, thank you I think that's right there are different kinds of work styles. And to this point, I've only done the, here's a very set process thing because it's easy for me just to offload that and say like, here it is, and it had done many times over, bringing someone in to be a more full partner and really like get what you're trying to work with I think it's a struggled with that and I'm curious I'm like optimistic to hear that you've had luck finding partners for that kind of work. Yeah, so I've actually for person I hired a virtual assistant, which seems like a lower entry level role but whoever had one has one knows how important is that they could really execute well because a lot of times they're writing emails for me. If I don't deem it necessary. And, and within that they got to really have strong writing skills have good thinking skills. So what I do there is I give them easy tasks to start with and then I scale up from there as they continue to gain my trust. So I ensure that the tasks in the beginning are more repeatable, systematic like you mentioned. And then I say, Okay, I could trust them there. Let's give them a bit more and then give them an inch of time, as opposed to just give them everything. But then again, Sandra mentioned that she met me and that was actually for a large marketing project. And there she would have to give a lot of trust to me as a potential marketer because she couldn't if you she was hand holding me she's not. She's wasting a lot of money on because I would charge a bit higher. She would waste a lot of money hand holding you should just have to trust within that, then you use other tips and tricks which is better filtering give them some tests, have the final interview at the end and to test for personality. So really, it's contextual but there's ways to do it where you could gain trust from people outside of your organization. Yeah, that's really helpful. Thank you. So if there's any more questions Matthew Linda Alex Laurie happen to answer. I think I'm through the chat. So many volunteer managers in the room because you know this this graduated level of scaling up responsibilities, you know, rings a lot of bells to me given the work that I've done which is always to say like, bring someone in for something that is safe and not time bound like, you know, if it goes wrong, it's okay. And as those people step up and prove they get you, then you give them more and more work until eventually you say like, here take my job I'm retiring. I know I did try to hire some admin staff through, he goes to work as well. And I tried, I tried that approach I tried doing little pieces, or you know, jump before you run, or walk for you run. And it was a good thing I did because it didn't work out. I know, you know, Eli and Sandra and everyone else that that Eisenhower matrix I displayed if you haven't used it like I spent 90 minutes organizing every past for the next month, putting it somewhere on this graph he's a big white board. And then I realized how much stuff I was doing that in half. But again, anything within delete or delegate I just ignored for five days. It's, it's not going to ruin anything with my work. I said I'm just going to ignore it and see what happens, instead of hiring someone to do it the short term. And like I mentioned, most productive week of my life because I was able to really focus on what matter and figure out what is a priority instead of just doing busy work to confusing progress with motion as I say. So once you could figure out what the delegate to be easier to figure out right now I know who's the first hire that I need to take a lot of these tasks off my plate. Absolutely. I think there's a quote I read, never mistake motion for action. Exactly. That's another version of it for sure. We have a question here from Lori. What about privacy and security issues with data entry, how can this be insured, or I guess what she means is how can you trust somebody. How can you do sensitive data entry for you when you don't know them. Yeah, so let's say you're working with something like it's a great question because it can be very valuable information. If it's something in the past when I've worked with data entry people. I tend to whenever I work with freelancers I tend to work with shared sheets at Google sheets for example. The reason being is you can really manage access to that information. So in the beginning what I always do is create a separate sheet that replicates what they would be seeing but removes a lot of that private information well, and then once they can gain their trust and their talent. Then I usually have them sign a privacy agreement in DA sometimes it's not really binding but it usually has a mentally known they can't take any information. And then from there I give them more access to the sheets but at any point I want I can revoke their access immediately. There are also ways within Google sheets where you could have privacy settings and what people can or can edit can and can copy. There's a lot of things you could do within sheets to help manage privacy for freelancers, which is a big reason why I work with work in it when working with others. I'm mistaken. Upwork has some sort of feature that it's got a screen recording I think so when the, the persons logged in it's recording their screen doing the work for the period they're building you for I think. Yeah, so that's for hourly work only and it's optional. Right, so it's a great point bringing up Sandra so let's say you want data entry work and you're paying hourly. So if you require your freelancer on Upwork to use the Upwork feature and like Sandra said it literally takes a screen capture every 10 minutes to see to show that they're actually working the project they are. So they're building appropriately. But that's also optional like I've worked with clients and I trusted them with the hourly wage they built before. And I mean anything can happen within those 10 minutes to. But yeah it's Lori it's always a concern, but that's why you inch your way into trusting anyone, just like you would an employee. I liked your suggestion there especially if it's a Google sheet. Lockdown like certain cells and stuff so that they can only edit those cells you want them to edit. Yeah, like I did one day and look at all of our revenue they get access to all of our revenue numbers cash numbers everything in one of my businesses, which is sensitive information but I locked all those cells, and only unlock the one column I had him work in every month. So he had specific access. Any other questions. No question to the line said will everyone have the presentation deck afterwards is that a possibility. If anyone does want the presentation deck they can email us or you can either email Chris directly or myself and we can send it to you. We don't by default have everyone's email addresses here. No, but what I can do Chris is if you send Sandra or me the slide deck, I will embed it into the blog post with the video, and then we'll send that link to all the members of the meetup and so we'll be and make sure that people have access to that. Okay, I'll definitely do that. Because a lot of these things sometimes can only be internalized when you look over it again or actually try it. My suggestion to everyone if you're willing to try it go on Upwork hire someone for something super small. Even if it's a task you don't need like design me a logo. I just they see that the process is like you spend $50 doing it, because you can get it for that cheap. You spend the dollars learning saying oh now I could get what I could actually use this. You start trusting people a bit more understanding actually outsource a lot of things I was doing. And to always keep in mind you're not spending money you're saving money because your time is worth more than what you're paying. That's true. All right, I guess that that wraps it up I don't see any other questions coming in. So thank you Chris again for everything that was amazing. And I dropped Chris's email and contact information in the chat earlier, as well as mine. If anyone wants to reach out and feel free to reach out to us if you have any questions or want to get involved. Happy to connect with anyone on LinkedIn as well. And then assume not speak to for you but I assume Chris is happy to connect with you as well. Happy to connect with anyone, ask any questions. I'm here to support the community as Eli said and anyone who's looking to progress individually or within the orgs. Excellent. Thank you guys. Thank you. Lovely, thank you so much y'all. Have a great day. Bye.