 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not ex-Muslims should be punished and we're starting right now. With Khalid's opening statement, Khalid is a Muslim, arguing for the affirmative. Thanks for being with us. The floor is all yours, Khalid. Okay, so I'm going to show a presentation. You can all see this, right? So this is my case for executing apostates. Part one, it's going to be three parts. Part one, I'm going to talk about social cohesion and what that is. So the simple reason that they're executing is because they caused a decline of social cohesion. Social cohesion is the social bonds between people that holds society together is basically what society is. John Locke, he stated in his letters of toleration that civilization is built upon these social cohesions and apostasy is an antisocial rejection of these bonds. He actually recommends punishing them to the use of force via public shaming. Now, if these social cohesions are destroyed, then society would collapse. And basically, this is what society would criminalize. This is what crimes basically are. There are things that destroy social cohesion such as stealing adultery, et cetera. And if they don't do this, then their society will collapse. There's an academic paper here from the University of Pennsylvania from last year called Johnny Anomaly. He finds that certain values cause the decline of social cohesion and causes civilization to collapse. By one, number one, the things like the UD was like freedom, equality of sexual stuff. This causes the decline of social cohesion. Number two, there's low social cohesion results in low birth rates, which leads to population decline and eventually the collapse of society. And these are generally what we call liberal values. Part two, what is an apostate exactly? Now at George Mason University, they came out with a survey of apostates called the apostate reports. So what do they value? 57% of them are liberals. As I showed before, these values destroy society and cause low social cohesion. 53% are alcoholics. 57% engage in adultery. 93% stated they are apostates because they value these liberal values more. And this was the main primary factor for their apostasy. So why do they value these specific things? Well, an apostate from society A would value the opposite of what society A values. So someone who's apostates from a liberal society will become a conservative or someone who's apostates from a conservative society will take on liberal values such as premarital sex and drug use, et cetera. So think of religion as a product of evolution. This is what atheists and scientists believe. So all religious values are a product of natural selection and basically their values that are the best at surviving. This explains why every civilization in history independently has these exact same values. Now, apostates reject these values and so they take on the opposite values, values that are the worst at surviving, such as, again, premarital sex and alcoholism. Now, can they have values that aren't those things? No, they can't. There's a recent paper on this. They found when secular committees, even when they understand the benefit of these values, their members refuse to practice it because it's not what they signed up for. And this concludes with what Locke says that these values have no hold on them. So here are some examples of apostates. This one is from Kenya. We tended to be from Somalia. They scammed the Netherlands, became a politician there. Eventually the police exposed them and kicked them out of the country. Then they went to America to continue the scams in a new land. Here's another one. He scammed the British government by providing fake data. Eventually actual scientists debunked him. The government pulled the funding and his organization, which used to scam the government for money, shut down. This one is a dictator of Turkey. He was an apostate dictator. He got rid of the Ottoman Empire, which results in the current instability in the Middle East. He was a notorious homo. He molested his best friend's son. This is in his autobiography, even if he molested their wives and so on. Now, because of the things he did, Turkey has won the lowest possible in the Muslim world, as well as won the highest rates of estates, even though he's gone. This was like 100 years ago. The stuff he did still kind of infect society today. This is another dictator. He was a dictator of Somalia. Under his rule, there were mass prevations, mass executions. He implemented apostate policies to promote it. And now he destroyed one of the most vibrant societies and now, after he's gone, things have gotten a little bit better, but still a lot of his consequences are still there. This is another one. This one claimed that she was being prosecuted for wanting an education, so eventually the Canadian government gave her a ticket to go to Canada. The first thing she did was do drugs, alcohol, had a kid with a random guy, abandoned the guy, then proceeded to create an only-fans account. She currently is not getting any education at all, despite what she said. This is another one, same one as before, another porn star. I don't think I'm going to point out how destructive this stuff is to society. Yes, now here's some examples of reverts. This is Bruno Gironi. He's an astrophysicist. He's an associate scientist at the ESA. He's a world-renowned expert in the theory of galaxy formation, and he's the guy who converted to Islam. This is another one. He's a Japanese professor. Another one, a mathematician. This one guy is from India. He's a professor of literature. Another scholar. And this one is a Taiwanese nanotechnology scientist. She's a National Science Foundation award-winning inventor with over 180 patents. So you can kind of see the difference between the two. This simple reason is for this difference, because stuff apostates believe is that they have the freedom to form any kind of family or identify as any gender, and you free to do anything regardless of the social consequences by promoting promiscuous behavior around sex and marriage. Now, so people, there are people who value hedonistic pleasure as sex and drugs above social order. They'll be attracted to liberal values and promote these things. And indeed the stuff they do value are socially destructive. This is from Patrick Dinen in his book, Why Liberals Are Failed. He says it promotes social destructive values such as the replacement of modesty with hookup culture and the lack of value when it comes to children. And this results in birth rate declines, which is important. I'll get to you later. Now, just to how it does not affect us. So Pierre Ostern came out with a study on demographics. And this is a demographic prediction of based on the birth rates. They find that in European society, their society is basically collapsing due to their liberal values. And that every 100 years, their population will decline by half, whereas the slums will grow by half. And by the year 2020, 2200, over 50% of Europe will be Muslim. This is also called Eric Kaufman. He's another political demographer. He's had similar projections about how in one by the end of the century, 20% of Europe will be Muslim. This is from Rothstein's on the left and Ron Leschengis on the right. The dotted line is the amount of native European babies. So let's see in 1950, there were 38 million European babies aged 0 to 4. Today, it's around 25-28 million. And by the next two centuries, they'll be all the way down to 8 million. Again, due to low birth rates, despite the fact that you can see in the pink line, the population of Europe is increasing, probably due to immigration. And Ron Leschengis states here that this trend will not reverse because the quantity of fertility is too small for this. This even for the advanced stage of the general revolution won't change this. The general revolution means equality between sexes. Nordic countries believe if there's more equality, the birth rates would rise, but empirical evidence shows this isn't true. And a similar thing is happening in the Asian countries in China, Japan, and Korea. And this is from Pew Research. There are more demographic statistics that shows that hate them as declining as a share of the world population only again due to low birth rates. And the reason does not happen for Muslims is because adherence to Islamic values means you will have above replacements of birth rates. And apostates basically want to get rid of this, so Muslims would then face the exact same things Europeans who, for example in Turkey, I showed you, their birth rates were lower because of their history. And thing is Islam has already tried these liberal values such as feminism, pop music, things that apostates want. And this caused the collapse of Baghdad and the end of the golden age. Similar thing happening in the Roman Empire. Roman historians talk of this back in Greece. Plato also talked about how the excess of liberty will cause the demand of tyranny. And other Greek playwrights like Aristophanes, who are two plays on this, Lysus Trotter, and the assembly won't worry basically, mocks these values and say how they will destroy society. And so we have countless examples in history of these liberal values destroying society. Philosopher G. K. Chesterton basically said, do not remove offense unless you know why it's put up there in the first place. So anti-apostate laws are therefore a reason to protect society. And this is again from anomalies paper that ultimately the winners and the evolutionary game of life are those who reproduce the most, not merely those who acquire the most power or resources in a particular mode of time. So it isn't the best interest of movement to continue having anti-apostate laws and not to repeat the mistakes of liberal society or the exact same mistakes we made in the past, like such as in medieval times where we did tolerate these things. And if we tolerate apostates, then they will spread these socially destructive values in a society. Now, you might say that's our oppression or that's disgusting or whatever, but to a reckless driver, a stop sign is oppression. And these are more further readings. Like I said on Eric Kaufman's book, Shall the Religious Inheritance is basically the same thing. Everything I explained here is basically explained in the book. There's more on fertility and this Victorian Qatar where despite them being rich, they don't have low fertility whereas in Europe the explanation for low fertility is more wealth. This isn't true in Qatar and the Middle East. And that's about my presentation. That's it. With that, we're going to kick it over to Apostate Prophet for his opening statement as well. Apostate Prophet is an ex-Muslim and he's arguing that ex-Muslims should not be punished. Thanks so much for being with us. Apostate Prophet as well. The floor is all yours. Thank you so much. Let me set my timer quickly. I keep forgetting that every single time. Okay, first of all, I'm very sorry for everything that you have just heard. Everybody, I really truly feel bad about this. Many people have asked before, I've seen in the comment sections and everywhere else, how is this a debate? How could we possibly debate this? And people think we shouldn't be having this debate and I agree we shouldn't be having this debate. Unfortunately we have this debate and we have to have this debate because the whole question should apostates be executed is often not a question among the circles of people who think like this guy here. They openly say that apostates should be executed as you can see and they do not base this on their own desires and whims. They base this on their ideology, on their own beliefs. Now, there's one thing that needs to be said, which is an irony that needs to be pointed out when it comes to, if you want to come to relying and trusting each other and being open and all that and going toward a healthier future. My opponent here who calls himself Khalid and who has a picture that I don't even know if that's him, agreed with me to have a video conversation in the beginning. Later he changed his mind and only wanted a voice conversation, a voice debate. So far nobody knows what he really looks like. So I am debating an anonymous person who argues that people like me who voiced their opinions should be executed and he's doing this anonymously, which is very, very ironic to me. Now, when it comes to why apostates should be executed and why people like this gentleman here agree on such a thing, I want to go to the sources of this very quickly. Can you see my screen? Okay, fantastic. Now, wait a minute, which screen are you seeing right now? Okay, that's the screen I think. So the order to kill apostates is directly found in the fundamental sources of Islam. For example, one of these is this source in which a person converts to Islam then reverts back to Judaism according to these sources. And these are accepted as extremely authentic next to the Quran. And a Muslim then says, I will not sit down unless you kill him as it is the verdict of Allah and his apostle, Muhammad. So this is a fundamental ruling within the Islamic religion. Next, we have a source that comes directly from Muhammad's mouth, which says the blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshiped by Allah and that I am his apostle cannot be shed except in three cases. In retaliation for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam and leaves the Muslims. So this is directly said by Muhammad himself. It comes from him. I wish our friend had explained where he gets these rulings from that would have been more insightful. Another source that we see here is that Muhammad's very trusted man Ali burns some people and he's a very beloved individual, by the way, in the Muslim community burns some people. And another then comes and says, had I been in his place, I would not have burned them as the prophet said, don't punish anybody with Allah's punishment. Sounds good so far, right? Don't do that. No doubt I would have killed them for the prophet said, if somebody discards his religion, kill him. So this is a ruling that comes directly from the Islamic Islamic sources. Muhammad himself commands the killing of people who leave the religion and embrace disbelief. Now this is a map that you can access very simply online. You just have to look for it, which is why it shouldn't be shocking and this debate should contribute to make it less shocking and surprising to hear that this is actually a ruling within Islam which many Muslims agree with. This is a map that can be easily found on Wikipedia which shows you apostasy laws. Now what this does show is that certain apostasy laws exist in several countries. Some countries are shown here and listed here which do not actively execute apostates and they do not have written laws in the modern sense which say if you leave Islam you will be executed. But what they do have is they have Islamic rulings within their laws. They appeal to those rulings and those rulings contain texts which say that apostates should be executed. And several of these countries repeatedly appeal to those in order to threaten or to punish people who leave Islam. These rulings against apostasy exist in a dozen countries. More countries have rulings. More countries are socially dangerous. If you leave Islam the law may not be able to punish you because they have been westernized gladly but within a society you will be under constant threat. You will be threatened by your family members, by relatives, by friends and by many others. This is a common Islamic practice. In fact if you want to look at numbers by Pew Research made in 2013 we see that a large percentage of the Muslim population which favors the Sharia Islamic law favors stoning for adultery and if you look further many people in many Muslim countries most of the population in Egypt 86% of people who favor Sharia also think that people who leave Islam should be executed. So this is not a fringe opinion, not something strange that some guy named Khalid here simply comes up with. This is actually a very common practice, a very common idea directly found in the fundamental rulings of Islam. Let me quickly get back to my screen. Now our dear friend will talk a lot about why this should be done and why apostates should be executed. He has already done this and I will of course come to the report of some of the things that he said in my report section. What he generally argues is that atheism is bad for a society. Apostasy is bad for a society. People generally argue that leaving Islam makes societies weaker or corrupts them, makes them more full of harm and all that. If we look at the actual statistics in the world we will see that atheism does not have a terrible impact, a destructive impact on society. Apostasy from Islam also doesn't have a destructive impact on society. Now of course according to mental health professionals if you have trauma in your past and you escape from that trauma it is quite normal that you have a reaction to that trauma. This has been known as resentment prior to psychology in philosophy for example mentioned by Nietzsche and many others by Sigmund Freud himself for a long time. Islam is a very oppressive, a very authoritarian religion. If you leave this religion it is quite natural that you have trauma and a severe reaction to the abuse that you faced while you were within this religion. So after you leave it you might try to be free as possible and be as resentful as possible and to take a revenge and then slowly you normalize. It is not true that atheist societies are more destructive and more destroyed. If we want to look at data that we can present directly here by appealing to research we can see that a map of mental health disorders for example brought up by our friend and by many others who argue for apostasy and against atheism shows us that there is no significant difference in terms of mental health between Muslim civilizations and non-Muslim civilizations. In fact Iran for example has a very high percentage of people with mental health disorders. This is a giant misunderstanding on the part of Islamists and Muslims in general who think that mental health problems are a result of a bad life or something like that. It is not true that mental health is simply health. It can go bad, it can go well, it depends on many different factors. Afghanistan is a country that suffers from big mental health problems. Islam doesn't have much to do with this. Many different other factors are involved in this. If we look at, okay I looked at this right now. We can appeal to different research in which we, for example in this research paper if we dive deeper into it we see that in the Islamic society it is very common of people to associate mental health problems with the devil or with the jins which is why Muslims frequently try to blame mental health problems and other problems on invisible beings in order to explain their misery if they have misery. So they are not aware of certain mental health problems. People outside of these societies and atheist societies recognize their mental health problems and deal with them which is why then the Islamists who advocate for Islam and against secular and atheist societies make it look like atheist societies deal more with mental health problems but that is only because these societies happen to recognize their mental health problems while the Muslim community doesn't. In the Muslim community it is very normal to say hey I have a problem but that has to do with jins or you have a problem but that has to do with jinn possession. Now when it comes to violence we have statistics which show us very clearly that in terms of global terrorism the Muslim world is dominant in terms of suffering from terrorism. Muslims often say the greatest victims of terrorism are Muslims themselves but that doesn't change the fact that Muslims are also vastly engaged in terrorist activities. So sorry to rephrase that the vast majority of Muslim activities are done with Islamic motivations by Muslim groups. In fact a research by Davis Brown for example on the influence of religion on interstate armed conflict shows us that this should be somewhere here shows us that for example the Christian religion is associated with a decrease in armed conflicts while Buddhism shows no change and Islam is associated with an increase in global conflicts. The references are right here on screen. This research is just one of many researchers which shows directly that. Just off the top of my head Robert G. Hoiland in his book In God's Path for example very nicely explains that Islam hasn't been a system of peace on the contrary. Islam started out not as a dream but rather as a force that invades the world and massacres populations and Muslims are proud of that in the early phases of Islam and then imposes Islam on societies. This threat to humanity was only stopped by the expansion of Western ideas. If we look at Western ideas in fact to atheist societies Iceland, New Zealand, Denmark populations in which secularism and atheism is very big we see that the most peaceful countries in the world are countries that have nothing to do with Islam. So the idea that Islam would bring us peace seems very much baseless if we look at the statistics here. If you look at the human development index you see that again secular societies, western societies, atheistic societies or some Asian societies are very highly ranked. You will not find a high number of Muslim societies here on the country if you go further down you will find a lot of Muslim countries which kind of works against the whole idea that Islam brings development and peace and happiness and all that. People like Khalid argue that too much freedom is bad. Here is just one example of a research which debunks that whole theory and shows us that there is no such thing as too much freedom. Freedom is related to higher happiness in general which is why for example Finland is more happy than France where you have more happiness than the other country. Here is the example of just that, of just what I just said. So more freedom, more individual rights are related to more liberty. In fact here is another research which I just found quite recently by Damien J. Rock and other researchers which shows that respecting individual liberties is associated with higher GDPs while fewer liberties and much less respect for liberties is associated with a sharp decline in productivity and in GDP which also explains why Muslim countries are very low in terms of productivity while non-Muslim countries, liberal countries are very high. There are many other reasons why I think Islam is a terrible alternative and why ex-Muslims should not be executed but hey I didn't even spend enough time here going into why ex-Muslims should not be executed which is why what I find very funny because our opponent here the Islamist also did not really explain to us why ex-Muslims should be executed. All he did was to say ex-Muslims should be executed and he depicted ex-Muslims as people who are emotional and who cry and then he went into a bunch of talk about why adultery or nudity is bad that's just it, it's just bad or why lower birth rates are bad or why an unstable society, defined unstable, is bad and so on but no explanation ever as to whether it is okay or not to execute upon states well let me ask you a very simple question if it is in the human interest to act for well-being for your own flourishing as found in the ideas of Aristotle for thousands of years, do you think it is better for you do you think you will be happier and you will find more flourishing and well-being in a society if people around you are executed for thinking freely or will you find more happiness if people's individual liberties including your own individual liberties and the liberties of others are respected or in other words should we normalize something like executing upon states in the West as well, should we do the same thing to Muslims and people who convert to Islam I don't think the Muslims would agree that we should do that I don't think any of us would agree, I certainly don't thank you you got to thank you for that opening statement as well a positive profit and we'll let you know folks a major debate going on tonight whether or not Joe Rogan's podcast has done more harm than good in the context of COVID in particular between Destiny and Gavin McGinnis who collide for the first time tonight on modern day debate you don't want to miss it hit that subscribe button and with that we're going to jump into the rebuttal periods now in particular we start with an 8-minute rebuttal this is from Khalid and then we'll go back to apostate prophet and alternate throughout the debate with that thanks so much Khalid the floor is all yours for your rebuttal so let me address it so first he says on that liberal societies are more productive but again here's Patrick Ginnan why liberalism failed liberalism has drawn on free liberal inheritance and resources that once sustained liberalism but which it cannot replace loosening of social bonds family et cetera and so on thing is liberalism is rich because of that because they inherited from pre-colonial monarchies the wealth of Africa but that again is irrelevant next he talks about satisfaction about here's a paper oneness and beliefs are effect on life satisfaction this is from Germany and all the participants here are from in Germany now in Germany the people who are most satisfied with their lives are Muslims the people who are least satisfied are atheists he mentions Nordic countries but this is from the Nordic council can't hear you I don't know if you're speaking we cannot hear you Khalid if you happen to be talking you might have muted your you're not showing as muted on my side in case you accidentally unplugged your microphone or something like that I also will mention folks while we're waiting both of our guests are linked in the description and you can check out plenty more thanks so much Khalid the floor is all yours for the rest of your opening or rebuttal the Nordic council it shows religious people are more happier in Scandinavia the metal analysis on happiness and it shows that again religious people are less depressed he mentions a lot of things but none of those things are really relevant to my topic which is does these values help you survive in the evolutionary game of life he mentions birthless but I already explained how birth rates low birth rates result in the collapse of civilization as can be observed in Asian countries and in Europe and I explained how this execution results in if we did not do it then our societies would basically collapse I've gave several examples on Turkey and Somalia as well as in medieval times where these liberal policies resulted in the collapse of civilization and he doesn't really trust in it why should we not do that? it doesn't really make sense because if we did tolerate it then we'd basically collapse that's probably a better rebuttal you got it thank you very much we're going to kick it over to apostate prophet for his rebuttal as well apostate prophet the floor is all yours for your rebuttal now I find it very funny before the debate in the talks he told me that I will probably dismiss certain things as irrelevant which is very ironic he just dismissed basically every much that I said as irrelevant I don't even know what to say it's almost a comedy show here that was my opening statement it wasn't my rebuttal, my rebuttal is coming now I find it very funny that he mentions John Locke and liberal philosophers or pioneers of liberalism in order to make his point John Locke is one of the forerunners of ideas a freer and happier society a liberal society among those we have Mill for example who clearly argues for societies where freedom is upheld where the harm principle is upheld where we do not harm others unless they explicitly harm us or harm others as well and by harm we are not speaking of emotional harm or societal harm or whatever it is but by literal harm so physical harm for example if somebody tries to kill others we stop them because we have a justification for that the line, the collection of philosophers and thinkers even the people who authored the researches that he cites if we put them together into a room and ask them hey guys do you think we should execute apostates they will probably unanimously say are you crazy of course not the whole idea, core idea of liberalism is to establish societies in which people are not ruled by authoritarian, totalitarian states not by certain religions which suppress them because that in history has repeatedly led to revolutions, to societal collapse and that the solution of that to establish a better future lies in letting people live and letting people think and speak freely unless they harm others through their actions directly so that is why I find it very ironic I wish he could present some Muslim researches and some Islamic research which shows us relevant data on why it is good to execute apostates and why apostasy is bad unfortunately there is really no such thing what he does is that he hypothesizes a lot with ideas on why liberal societies have grown and why the West is so good and what would happen if adultery was on the rise for example he doesn't actually appeal to proper data that we have which fact checks which looks directly at the numbers at the reality in front of us I cited the human development index for example which takes many factors into consideration such as the individual liberties the access to work, the access to basic human needs and education and happiness in general the actual data and to rank the Muslim world very low while ranking the liberal world very high and you will find this pattern again in global happiness where again liberal societies are ranked very high in peace where liberal societies are ranked very high and I'm not here just advocating for liberalism I'm merely speaking against the strange idea here that liberalism was the downfall while Islam was the answer obviously the numbers, the statistics are not telling us why liberalism makes for better societies and why Islam is on the decline and you can pick out as many research papers and ideas on these as you want you can ask different professors and different psychologists, different educators who have different theories and ideas on these things the matter of the fact is that if you look at the numbers you will simply find that your whole theory of liberalism destroying societies is a myth the oldest liberal societies that we have the oldest free societies that we have in the west turned themselves around through revolutions through the European miracle and created stable societies that are currently still the most stable the most promising societies that we have he gives examples of societies that were until very recent times still Islamic he gives Turkey as an example I'm sorry, in Turkey in the 1920s there was still a market of slaves in the 1910s, I'm sorry, let me misrepresent that there was still a market of slaves Turkey was the capital of the last Islamic empire in the world Somalia is in a fight of constant a constant fight between Islamism and different ideologies only within the last decades we have had public executions in Somalia where people had their limbs cut off because they rebelled against Islamic authorities these are not examples of societies that are being liberalized or that are liberal that are great examples of liberalism these are societies that go through change societies that are liberal are those that are highly ranked on the human development index and many other maps and statistics that show us that your ideology is a cancer to the world and freedom is not when it comes to justifications for freedom of speech for example we have a lot of research we can cite so many of those by Kent Greenewald which shows us that freedom of speech, a highly cited research shows us that freedom of speech makes for better development, more creativity and advancement of ideas which is lacking in the Muslim world which is why productivity is lacking in the Muslim world happiness is related to more freedom and more perceived freedom he gives an example of Muslims who are more satisfied according to self reports in countries like Germany or Norway for example what he fails to realize is that a declaration of satisfaction is not the same as happiness overall in general if you ask a regular Muslim who is suffering and poor and sick and satisfied because that's what you say that's what you do but if you look at the general standard of living of that Muslim you see that they may be highly sad in trouble, stressed, desperate have no access to proper living standards are really sad at the end and you look at a Swedish person for example who lives lavishly, who is happy who can do whatever they want feel happiness but if you ask them the Swedish person might say I wish I had more while the other person who is at the end of his life might say I am satisfied because that's just what people say I'm sorry that's a self report of how satisfied you are with your miserable or great circumstances it is not a report of your standards of living, of your health of your development, of your happiness of your liberty for yourself of your well-being as said, I mean he cites the American the American Psychological Association which ironically lists on their very own website the fundamental human will to live and the fundamental human will to be well which is again as said an idea that has existed since the time of prior to Aristotle and many of the ancient philosophers people fundamentally essentially want to be well want to be happy they want to flourish you cannot flourish if you are oppressed if you have authority over you controlling every single move that you do and killing your children if they dare to leave Islam that is not how you will receive flourishing that's how you will get flourishing if you are so deluded that you believe this is your ultimate purpose in life and that you must go to heaven and kill everybody else who will possibly prevent that because you are so insecure we will jump into the next rebuttal this is going to be six minutes each Khalid thanks so much the floor is all yours and friendly reminder folks want you to attack the arguments instead of the person and both of our guests are linked in the description go ahead Khalid the floor is all yours has an anomaly stated what matters in the long term is whoever reproduces the most not those who acquire the most wealth in a short period of time so none of you are rebuttal really addressing that the question I'm asking is that is it evolutionary beneficial to tolerate that stuff as in would it benefit us to begin to tolerate that stuff and I'll show you tons of empirical evidence that it does not and this evidence from like last year and that's not a rebuttal it still has a trust main argument you got it we will jump into the next rebuttal six minutes from apostate prophet and then we'll have yet another rebuttal section go ahead apostate prophet the floor is all yours for six minutes that's very funny because we're in the last rebuttal right now so if he wants to die on this hill I think it's a very terrible hill to die on but I find it very funny that he and people like him I've heard it from other Islamists before argue that you know lower birth rates will lead to a destruction of society and will you know dissolve our societies and high birth rates are good for us I mean I didn't even prepare for a discussion on birth rates I just do a very quick google search on research related to birth rates and the benefit and the first thing that I found is that benefits raise economic benefits sorry lower birth rates raise economic benefits that lower birth rates are associated with more developed societies that lower birth rates are a normal regular completely natural healthy result of advancing developing societies which have more access to happier lives to family planning and so on have you heard of the term planning of family planning it's a very normal thing that people who are no longer scared of being oppressed and of dying of from very simple diseases under very simple common circumstances like war that they are more able to plan their lives and they are more able to you know plan on making a certain number of children forming a certain family that is restricted to I don't know two kids or three kids that you can take care of not 12 kids because you expect that four of them or five of them might die very soon in a war or through terrorism or through diseases and so on this is very common I don't know what he thinks and how he imagines reality but when birth rates go lower this does not mean that the society eventually declines because no new babies are born and then the society collapses no it simply means that people make fewer babies and now you might argue that making fewer babies might lead to results of a decrease in workforce in labor force for example in Japan we actually have an example of that and he could argue that a result of lower birth rates might be something like in Japan where people are becoming too advanced birth rates are getting too low and Japan finds fewer and fewer workers for labor which is needed within the country and therefore a country like Japan for example looks for ways to solve this problem through automation or through many other means maybe even through a limited amount of immigration that does not mean and what Japan is not afraid of what is not supported by any amount of research is that because of lower birth rates due to family planning and more comfortable lives the society will eventually not make any babies and everybody will die and society will collapse that is impossible because even if the society would become bad again and would lead to more decline people would end up making more babies due to circumstances health life circumstances becoming lower and less desirable which leads to higher population growth through birth rates higher population growth do not make for better societies if you look at a map of birth rates you will see that the most underdeveloped cultures happen to have the highest birth rates African countries with the lowest standards of living of life have very high birth rates Muslim countries with very low standards of life have higher birth rates even Muslim countries with much better standards of living have lower birth rates this is how it works because birth rates are associated with a general standard of living and with happiness and more as said he brought many other points such as that I don't know that people come to the west and go on only fans and try to make money over only fans or that people have premarital sex or extramarital sex and that this is terrible and that this will lead to societal collapse I mean it is simply very strange to argue and to present data that if everyone becomes an atheist then people will naturally engage in masses of adultery and in selling their dance moves on only fans which will lead to societal collapse it is simply a ridiculous line of reasoning supported by no research at all it might lead to certain instabilities at first every change does including converting to Islam oh nice point right he argued for example that people who leave Islam initially have engaged in certain activities that are destructive and he gave a few names as examples finally enough we have a research I came across one quite recently which says that conversion to Islam is associated with a very high increase in violence and that converts among Muslims are disproportionate in terms of terrorist activity and this is explained by many different theories one of those is if I find it I will immediately cite it one of those is that people who convert to Islam as opposed to people who were always Muslims are more enthusiastic more you know more excited about their religion often more with more enthusiasm with more dedication and very often end up committing crimes in the name of their religion and becoming radical so if you want to talk about how people who change their religions and their world views engage in destructive activities maybe we could come to that and we could talk about why Islamic terrorism is the number one motivator behind terrorism in the world but we could also cite different things to refute all your other points for example from the European Institute for Gender Equality which shows us which gives us statistics you can look this up on the as said the European Institute for Gender Equality that gender equality for example is highly correlated with a high increase in GDP per capita and in development in general child marriage and cousin marriage are very common in the Islamic culture both related with a high decrease in mental health and standard of living and so on we could go forever with this but of course everything is irrelevant to him so what am I going to say we will jump into I actually had a positive profit correct me if I'm wrong as well as Khalid let me know I had another six minute rebuttal from each of you but if you wanted if I was wrong about that let me know in addition one thing we could try is we could jump into the closing statement says we do have a lot of questions for the Q&A already so in my opinion there is not much to discuss here we could just jump to closing statements Khalid are you good with that? Khalid are you there? it's technology it doesn't go well with it you got it you're good with going into the closings yeah alright we'll jump into these closings six minutes each and then we'll jump into your questions folks so thanks so much for sending in your questions into the old live chat and with that Khalid the floor is all yours for your six minute closing I said tons of evidence like Eric Kaufman Rustan et cetera mostly Kaufman in his books so there's already tons of evidence on that Charles Jones also published another paper on the end of economic growth consequences of a declining population so I don't know why you're ignoring the evidence it doesn't seem you have an actual refutation against anything I actually said and I know it wrote the argument that you really trust our issues that's my closing statement you got it we'll jump into AP's closing statement and then right into that Q&A so thanks for your questions folks AP the floor is all yours well that was fantastic I think I don't know some people have mentioned it before but I'm kind of curious if our friend Khalid might be a fake Muslim who is just here to make Islam look bad because that's what's really happening here right now but thank you so much for serving humanity with such a fantastic service here that you have done thank you so much really great what I have done through my rebuttals is to respond to the supposed research that he cited and to appeal to it while appealing to statistics in general and pointing out that the statistics that he found out at the research that he shows are opinion pieces and theories which do not combine very well the way he intends them to combine with with actual statistics that we have and I cited a lot of reasons why a freer society is better including citing research he kind of says I'm not citing evidence or not refuting his evidence which is very weird he simply dismisses everything as irrelevant I don't even know what to say anymore at this point I kind of feel like this is a prank but I mean I guess the message here is very clear the point stands he has not shown us any reason as to why reasonable people in the world to develop advanced people in the world should accept the idea that people who leave the Islamic religion who simply do not believe in Islam anymore who think for themselves should be killed executed, massacred their lives taken literally he didn't give us any reason to make people believe that and today he has certainly not convinced a single soul with that not a single person with that he will not be able to convince people he will not be able to make any good reasons for that outside of appealing to research that doesn't even support his own position the point stands killing people for simply believing in something that you believe no longer believing in something that you believe in is destructive to society is undesirable, is contrary to the human will to live is contrary to the human will to flourish is contrary to a functioning better society a society where everybody is forced to think the same is as the research says as the statistics, as all the data says not a good way to lead to create a society a society where everyone is forced to think the same thing is not a healthy society, it is a stupid society, a destroyed society, a society that is not promising, that is not healthy that is not happy, that is not developed we don't have any evidence for such a society that is actually developed that is actually advanced and happy that creates so many wonderful things in the world, societies where people are free to do whatever they want to speak freely, to think freely are those who create the internet that you access your debate with and that you argue on your debate with societies where people can think freely are societies that influence the world through new ideas that amaze everybody that captivate people that people spend their whole time with so freedom is what will bring you well-being freedom is in alignment with the ideas of the social thinkers what will make societies happier in the long run, what will make societies not go to new revolutions to new societal collapse to new shootings in the street to new oppressions to bloodbaths in the street, Islam is what does exactly that Islam invaded the world and oppressed the world and massacred populations for over a thousand and four hundred years it is so good that that has stopped the hands of the western world and at the hands of ex-Muslims and many others who reformed Muslim societies from within and that will continue and I'm happy to say that most people in the world who recognize their will to live and their will to be flourish are with me on this one and I hope the Islamists could look within themselves and also recognize that they are really doing something terribly wrong by being deluded with ideas of going to heaven and having sex with virgins and therefore killing people who will prevent that from happening thank you so much you gotta thank you very much for those closing statements gentlemen and wanna let you know folks we're gonna jump into the Q&A as mentioned before our guests are linked in the description that includes if you're listening via the podcast modern day debate is on podcast so you can find us on every major podcast app and wanna let you know as mentioned our guests are linked in the description box for the podcast episode as well so jumping into these questions thanks so much we're looking for substantive questions so if it's just a personal attack on the person we're not going to read it Muhammad Hakim thanks so much for your question says graphic design is my passion good for you Muhammad as well as Akku says beautiful representation brother that was for I think that was for you Khalid at the very start Darth Hore says for Khalid how could you have faith if it is the result of compulsion which I believe the Quran explicitly forbids the thing is I talked about natural selection and that certain things survive and other things do not so those who have faith are naturally have it naturally have those values will survive for those that do not won't and I've already shown like tons of evidence in my power presentation on how this is actually true and all the statistical data to go along with it you got it and there is a poll in the live chat right now asking what position you most identify with folks if you haven't seen this as of right now atheism is leading with 37% Christianity is at 27% and Islam is at 21% as well as other which is at 16% curious and want to let you know if you happen to be Muslim we definitely want to give you a chance to make your case recording in progress we in the past do want to say in the past I don't think we've done it as good of a job enough in terms of getting Muslim guests on the show and so we do want to let you know if you're a Muslim debater and you want to come on email me at modernaidabateatgmail.com this one coming in from SilverLTC says AP would you like the establishment of a new caliphate so the world can see how terrible it is buyer beware man would I would I want the establishment of a new caliphate just for the world to see how terrible it is no I don't think if I was a little bit psychopathic I guess if I had such tendencies that didn't value human life much I would say yeah okay that's actually a very good example to show to the world how messed up Islam is but I don't think it's worth it we already have enough examples if you simply want to look at the examples we don't need more examples we need less Islam not more you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from stop scamming man says question for Khalid in your estimation what should be done to an apostate in an Islamic state who also claims he or she was a minor when they left the faith um probably jail gotcha and thank you very much for this question coming in from Nikhil Sanka says for Kenny I'm not sure who Kenny is supposed to be but they say do atheists have the same rights in Muslim countries as Muslims do in secular countries it's probably for Khalid go ahead Khalid for Kenny yeah generally there's a there's a system in the Ottoman Empire called the Dimni system where as long as they paid the taxes they'd be fine and as long as they don't cause destroy social cohesion gotcha sure this one will get us demonetized for life Zagros Asken says would Khalid kill AP himself if he saw him or leave it up to the government probably the government okay thank you this one coming in from stop scamming man says question to AP do you think Saudi Arabia and Turkey will be majority non-religious by the year 2100 um good question 2100 the number to foresee the numbers are rising very rapidly in Turkey many Muslim authorities government authorities and politicians have pointed out that there is a concerning rise in atheism in Saudi Arabia we had religious authorities who have made explanations on that and said that we should do whatever necessary to prevent the current rise of atheism it is happening I'm not sure if they will be majority Muslim I generally think that within the 200 years Islam will largely lose its grip on society it's happening right now I would hope that people leave Islam by 2050 together you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from Selver LTC strikes again says Khalid are you aware of the parable of the prodigal son if apostates are killed you are condemning them to hellfire with no chance of returning Khalid hello yes we're still here I don't really determine that you determine that based on how you behave and how you live your life you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from stop scamming man says question to Khalid in an ideal caliphate what do you think should become of a minor who openly leaves Islam and never comes back I think you answered that you said prison inspiring philosophy strikes he says question for Khalid by your logic should the US execute Christian apostates that convert to Islam for going against the current societal order in the US they already do that in a sense for example I think there was this one named Marion Petron from France who basically did that and got punished by the government you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from Mohammed Hakeem says for Khalid do you really have a PhD and if you claim that Muslims are the happiest in the non Muslim countries are you happy in the super liberal United States to me you seem really unhappy I'm yelling computer science and no I'm not you're not happy no okay and they asked if you have a PhD yeah and computer science oh I see gotcha thank you interesting as well as Don Fulman appreciate your support says thanks thank you all we need more Muslim debates perfect I couldn't agree more if you're a Muslim and you want to debate email me at modernatobateatgmail.com Amy Newman says after show after the debate and question for Khalid what would it take to change your mind that these countries should not execute apostates it would have to benefit us somehow you got it and this one coming in from stop scamming man says question to Khalid if Islam is true and a person can end up in hell forever why have children much less lots of them with each kid question to Khalid if Islam is true and a person can end up in hell forever why have children much less many of them with each kid comes a higher risk of one being damned to hell forever because you could raise them to be proper you got it this one coming in from do you appreciate your question Dave Gar says there will be no evolutionary pressures to change in a monoculture the calling hypothesis of Khalid is both biologically and philosophically Khalid what are your thoughts it's something we already see Eric Kaufman has already written a book on this where he goes much more deeper into it you got it Karel saw you send in a super chat but I didn't see a question attached let me know in the normal chat if you want me to ask a question because I didn't see it there in the super chat XXWLZXX says is this debate still on when is it starting you might want to refresh your page and Jess Schneider thanks for your question T-Jump versus Darth versus Godless Girl video premiere tomorrow hope you can make it sounds juicy we miss Darth and we miss Godless Girl as well let's see Tom was on last night in case you didn't know folks that was a juicy debate Islam versus atheism in case you missed it this one coming in from do you appreciate your question SWGG says AP you have been equating recently quote apostasy law in Islam to the ongoing Muslim genocide in China do you believe that apostasy law and Judaism is the same as the Jewish holocaust can you hear me was that for me they said you have been equating quote apostasy law in Islam to the ongoing Muslim genocide in China do you believe that apostasy law and Judaism is the same as the Jewish holocaust apostasy law and Judaism was I mean completely different things I usually I have recently simply said that if you support executing people for leaving Islam then and you think people have no right to oppose that and to you know to complain about that then why do you keep complaining about a genocide in China for example which I am against by the way that's all I said I don't understand how that connects to the rest of the question you got it and thank you very much for this question coming in from D Bodro let me know if I pronounced it right says what does Khalid think of slavery based on red belt huh I said it's based on red belt and epic gotcha and thought in a sense they already exist kind of like a weight slavery and places like Amazon etc so on it's not something that something that will exist in society in one form or another so he's saying slavery is good and this is an actual Muslim who exists on twitter by the name of Khalid 10 billion IQ or something like that there's not a prank guys for Khan Almas says Khalid would you marry a person who has six years of being on the planet no that's not really how it works but I know what the question is about gotcha and thank you very much for your question Sean MACD says if an idea is true why is death threat necessary Khalid why not just persuade them versus the reason and logic stupidity because some people are emotional when it comes to these things think about America like what the liberals even if you show the facts they're still going to deny it emotionally this one coming in from do appreciate your question CEO Vash M says for a posate prophet do you think the west would be able to achieve all that economic development without slaughtering people robbing and enslaving them for the past 200 years of liberal western history I don't know what enslaving refers to most of the western world that not engage in slavery in the last 200 years or anything or even prior to that most of the western world gave up practices like that very long ago served them existed to a certain extent which is not equated to slavery which is a completely different system within a society and its own citizens and residents colonization of course which we nowadays consider which we nowadays regret I think did contribute to enrichment of western civilizations of course it's part of it is it therefore right and justifiable I don't think it is to the great extent I don't think it is which does not change the fact that we regret certain things that happened in the west but the Islamic side does not regret those things that said to the actual question do I think that the success of the west is largely due to these things no I don't think the west has been has had a very great work discipline for a very long time now for centuries now which caused the change in Europe and its miracle this one coming in from mush says you seem to constantly speak about killing an Islam apostate prophet namely being the only thing that happens in Islam you don't accept any justification for killing that we give what I don't understand the question what I think they're saying like this is like totally putting it in an inverse way maybe they're saying or do you think that there's ever a way in which killing is justified of course I mean in self defense it is definitely justified if you if you see somebody you know at the brink of killing somebody else and you know that their cause is unjustified if you see that somebody is being sexually assaulted I think it's completely justified to do that if terrorists plague your country and threaten to kill more people it's okay to kill them if it's absolutely necessary you know by law enforcement but no killing people for their opinions is certainly as we have demonstrated today not something that is justifiable it's horrible this one coming in from xx WLZ xx says Japan South Korea Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong were all colonized and now they are developed societies what is the Islamic world's excuse oh you have tons of rich ones in the Gulf so it's not a real question even in oil countries there's also Brunei which is also an oil country California is a gold country so that contributes to the riches in California yeah does it make the point that countries can use their resources to enrich themselves that's not an argument against ideals sure but that's not the point of the question here but whatever this one coming in from Karels says Khalid what should happen to you if you left Islam same thing as I said but I would do something that stupid this one coming in from do want to make sure that I've gotten all the questions let's see this one coming in from comment warrior the Jesus Christ follower says question to AP what is your favorite Muslim country my favorite Muslim country I'm not sure I've always wanted to visit Egypt I always wanted to go to Saudi Arabia just to see the environments and very nice places that were taken by the Islamists I don't think there's really any country that I admire maybe Kazakhstan or something like that Memo Lee says Islam means peace people like Khalid are poisoning the well this is a shame and Khalid will give each of you a chance to respond what's the question I think they're saying that that actually Islam is a peaceful religion and that you're making it look dangerous when it isn't actually dangerous no I'm just talking about a controversial topic without really holding back and there is an empirical evidence to back up my reasoning I even started an entire book it's not really my argument but if you want a more academic insight into it you can read every cosmic book my response is Islam does not mean peace Islam literally means submission that's a misconception Islam literally stands for submission it mainly shares the root of the word peace with submission Islam is also not a religion of peace and even if Islam did claim to mean peace just because you call yourself peaceful that doesn't mean you are actually peaceful in your practice as a sustainable religion this is coming in from ex dronin sorry that you retracted your question I don't know what it was but let me know if you think of it Andrew Henry says question to Khalid does the Taliban enforce Sharia properly far as I've seen yes with the exception of some political relationships you got it and last question that's coming in right now another question says AP's argument came down to echo or eco and technology advancements I think they mean economic Islam led in these categories for 1300 years 13 times longer than the US has now that China looks to lead will your argument change to communism being better than liberalism AP I think that's a terrible objection first off to my opening speech and also my bottles it was not at all restricted to economic and technological advancements I talked very very lengthily about mental health creativity human development index which includes many different factors about standards of living happiness self-report happiness and so on when it comes to the rest of the question Islam led these in for over 1300 years I'm not sure what you're talking about you may be referring to a rise of Islamic research for Islam within the first centuries of Islam which Muslims keep appealing to as the golden ages after that Islam was not unique Islam adopted these developments from previously existing cultures which it conquered and did not add anything did not add much to it after that the Islamic achievements are very old just because you were good at some point in development in research that does not mean everyone else was therefore terrible and it's just completely contrary to what we are arguing for here we are talking about liberalism as an example compared to Islam there is no barrier in front of Islam today no barrier in front of liberalism today and we see very well how these fare against each other you got it go ahead Farnan Badal he's a historian and he stated that in his book a history of civilization that Islam did add on to it for like 500 years so that's a lie you got it and thank you very much for your question this one coming in from Alawid L. Henry this one coming in from I can't tell what their name is this is a different language they say for Khalid if your parents left Islam should they be killed hmm I'd have to think about it next up XWLDXX says according to Ronald F. Engelhardt Islamic societies are disproportionately less happy than other societies especially European ones Khalid I cited anomalies that short term gains don't matter what matters is those who we produced most and they're the ones who win the game of life you got it and this one coming in from do appreciate your question not a verse says Khalid we understand that Islam relies upon the fear factor of executing apostates for its existence but with that inhumanity aside why are you in the west unhappily so why not live in a Muslim country and make it work yeah that's what I would do I'm already doing that oh you already I thought you lived in the United States no I do but I'm working towards it Alawid says question for Khalid if Islam was so friendly to creative people and science why now does it seem to stifle the same things it doesn't I should like a whole bunch of professors who contribute a lot like Jackie Ying you got it and let's see any last oh we do have more questions this one coming in from XXWLZ XX says if birth rates are so important why did Ayatollah Khomeini institute massive birth control that dropped the birth rate from 8.1 to 2.0 within a generation can you repeat it it goes from 8.1 to 2 right yep they said it went from 8.1 to 2.0 okay so that would be a mistake that would be a bad thing gotcha this one coming in from Soyobush M Siavush says AP in the US A. Martinez got 15 years of jail for burning an LGBT flag do you think people should have a right to oppose same sex marriage without such consequences of course they should be able to oppose but I think that is as far as I remember that it's a huge misrepresentation of what actually happened that is from a few years ago where a repeated offender who was in prison before actually took a flag that did not belong to him and burned it in front of a place and was then accused of arson and of disrupting the peace and then as a repeated offender received a sentence which is still ongoing so that's a huge misrepresentation nobody gets 15 years in jail or anything like that for simply burning an LGBT flag that belongs to themselves this one coming in from Pewdieu says Khalid do you consider bin Laden to be a terrorist or a martyr you can look at there's a newspaper that talks about how he was a freedom fighter against the soviet union so you can look at that this one from mush says he didn't respond to the question he didn't respond to the question so mush says it is true that Islam was spread by the sword initially apostate prophet just like any other major community however today that is not the case so why is Islam growing Islam is not growing today especially not by conversion not new people are not becoming Muslims Islam's growth according to Pew research which is a research that is ironically often cited by Muslims is to 99.7% due to birth rates and young age and only to 0.3% due to conversion people are not converting to Islam in masses that is a huge myth which I have demonstrated and which many others have demonstrated before you can simply find that by a simple search for scholarly articles or on google for maps Islam did spread at the beginning uniquely through war through massacre you are referring to other religions Christianity for example did spread in its history through war but did not initially do so Islam did this one coming in from do you appreciate your question mush says for both by the year 2050 so in other words 28 years from now Islam is predicted to be the largest world view or belief or religion out there what are your thoughts on this that is just called natural selection what was the question sorry what was the question for the year 2050 so in about 28 years Islam is predicted to be the greatest or largest world religion what are your thoughts on this I think if that was true that would be very disappointing I would be disappointed in humanity but the research is actually that according to current predictions to current growth rates based on three different scenarios it is supposed to be the largest in 2050 or later which does not take several factors into consideration including the facts that we have a a very large rapidly increasing growth of people who leave Islam which was not included in the actual research and which is emerging now so I would think that there's a lot to contest about that research we'll see you got it this one coming in from Charlotte says Khalid you're fine with killing apostates but you'd have to think about it if it were your actual family careful your spine is leaving your body what's the question exactly I think they're accusing you of being soft for hesitating about killing your own parents if they left the Islamic faith I probably just educate them a lot and if not then yes they're saying they recognize that they're acknowledging that and they're saying you're getting soft they're saying you should be having them put to death by the state well I guess that is the truth this one from education that don't work oh then you would okay long nights youtube says Khalid does the full extent of the laws of Islam apply to your family as well we often see how much Biblical law bends when it comes to family this is kind of like the last question the other full extent the other full extent C of Bush M says AP in US Monica Mears and her adult son were jailed for incest isn't that against freedom you as an incest supporter should understand I never supported incest this is a completely idiotic misrepresentation of what I actually said in the past I was specifically talking about how a certain case of grown adults who engage in an activity where they cannot harm others such as not engaging in reproduction or where it's impossible would not be directly harmful to anybody which is what I said I never advocated for incest or anything like that that is ridiculous I don't know of that case in America I'm not saying every country has the perfect laws so it's kind of a strange thing to bring certain laws from certain western countries as an example to kind of ask me so what about this but if you want to ask me whether I think incest should be legalized or made illegal it is not something that I have extensively thought about so not something that I have really an opinion on Gotcha, I think one last question WOM says what if we create a machine which allows humans to communicate with animals and they consent for sex doesn't that make it moral leaving behind the claim it's filthy and all where did that come from but go ahead AP I think they're sorry I missed the question I think they're saying there's a machine that allowed animals to communicate and to say yes to a human request to have sex with it would you be okay with it then would I be okay with it then that's a very strange hypothetical question so we do reject bestiality hypothetically because because we think it is first off not only a non consensual interaction it is also a directly harmful one to the human and to the animal even if there was a consent involved somehow I still don't think that would be justifiable because I'm sorry to say it is given the weird example we also don't take the consent of young humans as acceptable just because they seemingly give us a consent because we take into consideration that their consent is not equal to the consent of a matured adult with a developed human brain they do not know about the consequences of something so I don't think that would be a justification you got it and thank you very much for your question Ryan Beecham says does not agreeing an apostasy killing mean that a person is a weak Muslim Khalid in a sense they just aren't very educated on the actual pragmatic reasons this one coming in from Daniel Zachariah says Khalid where does the sun set yeah I heard this before about it it's just nonsense questions if you want you could go to Faris channel and check it out you got it this one coming in from Xx WLZXX says how does Khalid respond to the fact that Islamic societies but typically Saudi Arabia have some of the highest rates of incest in the world where is the evidence for this this one coming in from stop scamming man says question to Khalid as is detailed in the article are Arabs turning their backs on religion irreligion is growing and outstripping the birth rate in North Africa will you also put that to natural selection um Eric Kaufman talks about that and he says in the long term it will die out to do again low birth rates in that specific group gotcha Ann Pewdieu says Khalid are you in Islam because you have a fear of hell yes obviously that's the most rational thing to do this from King Kong says people who identify as Muslim but do not practice Islam as they are supposed to will they also get killed or punished Khalid or should they uh they get minor ones you're saying they should get minor punishments or yeah just to be sure I got you right okay yeah siyavash m says ap you have a video against slavery yet in a discussion with DH you said it was totally justified why the contradiction uh there is no contradiction I have a video against slavery and in that video against slavery I explicitly said that um that I do not and cannot condemn Mohammed for example for engaging in slavery in his own time because Mohammed was merely engaging in activities that were uh common in his own time so he wasn't uh you know doing something that was considered terrible or horrible and he then you know went and did that and it's not like we know that there is something that there was always something objectively wrong with slavery and he did normalize it and do it no he was simply doing something that was uh considered acceptable in his own time and he created an empire based on that I said before very clearly that I cannot blame uh slavery in history and that it is uh historically justifiable due to certain circumstances of fighting each other and uh you know avoiding a comeback of your enemies there is no contradiction there I am simply against slavery today and within the last centuries this one coming in from advenko says ap you only showed a correlation between the hd I and development of countries can you provide an actual causal link I only showed okay I only showed that uh that liberal that that secular liberal countries free countries have a much higher hdi coincidentally and I did not present evidence that uh you know that that their freedom or their liberalism actually leads to that high development that is false I clearly presented evidence and cited articles and those those are those statistics also include certain articles to explain the reasoning by the way which explain that equality and individual liberties individual rights lead to higher productivity to higher gtp to higher creativity to more peace happiness and so on I did cite these just go back and look at the research that I cited this one coming in from I can't read the question or the uh name because it's in a different language they said they are both Sunni and Shia going to heaven no just the first one this one from mush says a posse prophet do you see how daniel hakikachu isn't here let's see posting a hundred questions so that let's see so they say uh so this one coming in from angel I says to both why is in many debates or interactions with Muslims they tend to bring up some form of sexual act in reference or obsession because that's very important to our society functions obviously it's not a huge problem in the world but I don't know there's not much to say about that from my side you got it and looking for any last questions before we go to our post credit scene want to let you know if you haven't seen it this evening my dear friends we're absolutely thrilled as for the very first time ever destiny and Gavin McGuinness collide namely on whether or not Joe Rogan's podcast does more harm than good that's at the bottom right of your screen and that's tonight at 9pm eastern time you don't want to miss it this last question coming in from soya bush M says AP do you speak Arabic can you translate a simple sentence without googling and then parentheses they put in quotes ridvan is a diligent student unquote please pronounce the end vowels clearly no I don't speak Arabic so I would not be able to on the spot translate a simple sentence like this although I think I actually did learn that simple sentence during an Arabic course but I don't speak Arabic so I wouldn't be able to do this no idea how that is relevant to the point here MB Khan says Khalid did Muhammad split the moon in half evidence is there that this happened yes he did there's historical evidence to it they spent recording and witnessed he can buy his enemies you got it prime minister says question for AP what do you think of the sex rituals in Hinduism do you like that do I like that I added that part what do you think of the sex rituals in Hinduism I just thought what I don't know what the sex rituals are I'm aware that there is a a long history of positive sex positive explanations and all that I don't know what they're referring to I don't know if they're referring to strange things of gurus with their genitals out or something like that I don't know why there's a question about Hinduism I think if there's a practice that I find very odd I would say it's odd let's see Marcelo LB12 says we want to know why you host the people that you host in these debates the truth is like we are open so if you email us at moderndaydebate.com if you want to debate especially if you're a Muslim we have not done a great job of including Muslim debaters in the past I think for the last three years to be honest and that's something that if you reach out we are willing to help set you up in a debate if you're a Muslim debater wanting to make your case on modern day debate we want to be as fair as possible to everybody and so that's the answer to your question and then let's see last let's see if there's any last questions before we do go into the post credit scene so do want to say thank you so much for your questions I want to let you know that our guests are linked in the description and that includes with if you're listening to the other podcast and want to say thank you AP and Khalid for being with us today it has been a juicy debate to say the least thank you so much James and thank you everyone who is here to view and to listen and to contribute thank you so much I really appreciate it and stay away from Islam you got it yeah good you could check out the books I started in the references for more in-depth analysis of what I was talking about you got it and we will be back tonight as mentioned for the debate on the bottom right of your screen it is going to be a big one folks you don't want to miss it so hit that subscribe button if you haven't already and I'll be back in just a moment with a post credit scene letting you know about upcoming debates so stick around my dear friends want to say thanks so much for being with us today we hope you are doing well and we are indeed excited about the future of modern day debate this is just the beginning our story is only starting we are excited about the future as we have many juicy debates in fact tonight even it is going to be a big one ask for the first time ever as you can see the bottom right of your screen destiny and Gavin Mingadis for the first time ever collide debating whether or not Joe Rogan's podcast was more harm than good when it comes to the topic of COVID we are very excited about that one you don't want to miss it hit that subscribe button but I got to let you know as well my dear friends if you open to be a Muslim debate and you are like hey James I want to come on and debate on modern day debate we want to give you a fair shot it's something that we have in the last few years we never really did host enough Muslim debates because frankly we just didn't know a lot of Muslims that wanted to debate but now that we are kind of breaking into that topic a lot of Muslims are reaching out so I want to let you know we are open if you want to email me at moderndaydebate at gmail.com so very easy to remember it's the name of the YouTube channel modern day debate at gmail want to say hello to you there in the old live chat emergently adaptive glad to have you with us Jamal Khan and Dressonics glad to have you with us Mar glad you are here Ophel Ian glad to have you with us Mir Muhammad happy to have you with us Gabriel Shosner thanks for dropping in as well as Nat glad to have you here and Charlotte thanks for coming by says always finding new interesting speakers and content creators through this channel last time it was Act 17 apologetics this time it's a positive profit thank you for what you do thank you Charlotte for your kind words that really does mean a lot and my dear friends I've got to tell you we are determined to carry out our vision we want to provide a neutral platform so that everybody has their chance to make their case on a level playing field as we get people from different walks of life talking about the big questions of life and so we want to say thank you for your support we are excited about the future and we want to let you know whether you be Muslim whether you be atheist Christian black white gay straight you name it we are glad you are here we hope you feel welcome and we want to give everybody a fair shot so for example there are a lot of debate channels out there the reason I started modern day debate is because when I used to debate because I have debated on debate channels before I realized sometimes the moderator would jump in and take sides and start debating along with the debaters and I was like what the heck is this we want it to be fair for everybody and that's why I try my best to not end of the debate to not take sides and also though is there were many debate channels in the past they would host a debate and then they would put out a video smashing one of the speakers or maybe criticizing their arguments and only one of the speakers would have their arguments criticized to which I thought well that's kind of weird it seems like you guys are pretty obviously biased in favor of one speaker we don't do that we leave it up to you the audience to make your opinion note in the comments where you can say if you thought somebody had good arguments or not because for us we really do want to be as fair as possible and we are excited though my dear friends it's not just tonight that we have a big one coming up I've got to tell you about this one we're excited we just booked this one I think it was a day or two ago as you can see at the bottom right of your screen David Wood aka AX AX17 apologetics will be taking on Muji on who was Muhammad also we are in the works for setting up another debate with Dr. Shabir Ali and Kabain so that one's in the works it hasn't been confirmed yet but we are talking about it over email we are working on as I mentioned filling that vision of providing a neutral platform we want to be YouTube's fairest platform there is and we want it to be the case such that if people have a disagreement on Twitter or wherever it is they would say hey you know what I trust moderated debate they've actually done a fair job with their guests we will be willing to go on that channel and so we as mentioned want to let you know we do appreciate you being with us whether you be Muslim atheist Christian you name it and music guy 20 good to see you there friend in the old live chat Mar good to see you and world of bliss thanks for dropping in I see you there in the old live chat Diana B thank you for your kind words is awesome for this great platform I mean I really appreciate that Diana seriously that means a lot and the mighty glad you're with us cogito ergo good to see you again Red Sea pirate destroyer thanks for coming by says Daniel Hikachu is my favorite guest I really like Daniel I no joke I get along really well Daniel when we had our in person conference I got to talk to Daniel in person and I honestly really do enjoy his company so I do want to say I and amazingly even though we don't have the same views on many things and in fact of course for example but in particular that he happens to be Muslim I kind of you know in a way I kind of just identify with Daniel I just feel like we have a lot in common so long story short I do appreciate Daniel coming on modernity debate and we hope he feels like he's being treated fairly as always for respective good to see you there I see there in the live chat thanks for saying hi and confirmed you daddy thanks for saying hello as well as Alika thanks for coming by red-blooded Republican ex-Trump supporter thanks for coming by says amazing channel we appreciate that says doing the Lord's work James I appreciate your kind words I don't know if we are we try to be we want to treat people well that is what we do want to do so we appreciate your kind words some of praise can you imagine can you imagine fighting to let's see we are glad you were here some of praise as well as Darth whore thanks for coming by she also likes to be called Darth soy glad you made it as well as see here Gina from cologne good to see you back Gina thanks for dropping in Ruby glad you are with us says who was Muhammad that debate sounds interesting and thanks for your encouragement DNA five nine eight thanks for coming by says well done for pursuing this debate channel it's much appreciated in this cancel culture hell I agree and for I appreciate all of you guys being super supportive once in a while we have a critic who says all James you shouldn't host this topic you shouldn't host this person and every time we have somebody complain we don't block them we don't erase them because we're big on people having the freedom if they want to criticize the channel that's okay we don't want to you know ban them for that but for every complaint we get we always say we're gonna host the topic again for every complaint that comes in no Christ no life thanks for coming by I see there in the old live chat as well as principal methods thanks for coming by as well as some Maya Michael thanks for dropping in fake human glad you are with us and let's see here if you haven't hit that like button already we are at 506 likes amazing that is a monster amount of likes for a live stream want to encourage you hey we could totally get to 510 we only need four more likes will you be one of the four people that hits like to get us to 510 as that really does help our discoverability no joke the algorithm work such that the more likes or even dislikes the channel gets the more YouTube recommends the videos and so we really do appreciate you guys helping us with that as that is a way to support the channel in a very tangible way it really does make a difference my music guy 20 good to see you as well as long nights YouTube and thanks so much for all of your kind words as we gain a lot of knowledge by watching these videos thanks for saying that I really do I like that you say that that's encouraging for me because I always thought I want to do a debate channel where I can simultaneously learn while I'm putting out content so for me getting to listen to these debates I just love getting to learn and have a YouTube channel at the same time because I do love YouTube I've always been on the platform since 2006 when some of you were maybe little babies maybe you were little babies and you were just you know in your little diapers some of you were gonna say we love YouTube they have helped us grow a ton and that's why we do follow terms of service I don't know if today's debate follow terms of service but most of the time we follow terms of service the reason is is because for us we want to grow we're not ashamed of that we believe that our vision that what we are doing at modern debate namely providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field is indeed valuable we do and so given that we believe it's bringing value to the platform we want to grow we want to have a bigger impact and that's why we always do tell people hey subscribe hit that like button we are excited about the future and we're not ashamed of it because we really do believe we're making a positive difference on YouTube HSW thanks for coming by says bring Daniel back on he's so entertaining and full of life and he is passionate no doubt about it red sea pirate destroyer says Professor Dave versus Ken Ham hey that could be juicy we'll see no joke I will reach out to Ken Ham and see if we can get him on because that would be an awesome debate and Jamal Khan thanks for coming by as well as forward tribe says you never got a Catholic debater either just a thought we do want to get Trent Horne on no joke we're hoping to debate our host Trent Horne with Matt Delahunty in person this summer that's a hope I haven't even reached out to them about that so who knows if it'll actually happen but we do appreciate your guys to support red blooded red blooded Republican ex Trump supporter says hey James thanks for saying hi I really do appreciate you and my dear friends we are excited though I see you there in the live chat Ron Habster thanks for coming by as well as let's see holy armor we are glad you are with us as well as emergently adaptive thanks for coming by Arya Gabe thanks for being with us we are glad that you are here my dear friend and I've got to tell you we are happy to have you with us Banna I see there in the old live chat Mr. Alio 84 hashtag antics thanks for coming by Delta November good to see you again thanks for dropping in and I've got to tell you my dear friends we are pumped to let you know we are working on getting on to Odyssey so Odyssey is another video streaming platform it's in the works it's not it's going to take a little bit we don't know if it's going to be in the next day or two it might take a week but we are working on that and then we do have a twitch chat thanks there I see at first time chat from viewer in the old chat we do appreciate you being with us I don't see the name because it looks like we do have to follow terms of service it looks like your chat got deleted so I do want to remind you Sir Ban cloud we do want to follow the terms of service for both twitch and YouTube good to see you Brooks Barrow in the old twitch chat as well as Saffron in ASEAN thanks for being with us my dear friends we have got to let you know we are excited about the growth of modern debate as you guys just at the turn of the year we hit 60,000 subscribers we are now at let me take a peek here 64,600 so in the last month we have come to grow significantly a lot of that is because of the conference that we hosted in person is we are hosting in person debates again and we're hoping to do a number of them as we go on tour this summer being in places such as Texas California possibly even New York we are excited about that and Khalid I see there in the old live chat so it's 2006 damn you are old amazing you're right we got a lot of years of experience my dear friends but I don't want to take advantage of the fact that compared to many other YouTube channels they have significantly less life experience compared to us because we wouldn't want to take advantage of that fact but you guys know what joke that's from anyway we want to say specter par thanks for coming by as well as chess 119 says James how do I become a giga chat that's funny you're a funny guy you know that as Ophel Ian says I can't really see this as a modern day debate well nonetheless here it is and as we mentioned for every I know that you're not complaining don't worry but we've got to I gotta give you a heads up folks for every complaint we get about our debate topics we like to host it one more time just for those complaints this ain't your grandma's debate channel folks it is going to offend you at some points it is going to trigger you at some points Darth whore as an example in live chat is always offended and triggered and is always calling for a safe space at the channel and I always say hey you know what it's true we're going to defend we're going to offend people sometimes we're not trying to offend people but we're willing to host topics that are sometimes controversial and want to see or say hello Sheenie nm thanks for coming by we're glad to have you with us as well as Shaquille Solomon says great debates very informative thanks for that Shaquille thanks we really do appreciate you being here with us at moderated debate side show now good to see you there in the old live chat as well as fed on to fed on to we hope you're having a great day and thanks for your support Brooks Sparrow says thank you all for hitting that like and subscribing we crushed our goal of 510 likes we're at 535 huge with five more we can get to 540 are you going to be one of the five people that will hit that like button as that helps us you guys we do appreciate it Martin Ellen says I smashed that like button thanks Ellen or Martin Ellen for that carmen thanks for coming by says hello hello carmen and check proofs of Islam in my playlist says hey James when are you converting to Islam thanks for coming by my dear friend we are glad you were here whether you be Muslim atheist Christian you name it and grandpa Joe thanks for coming by says great channel thanks for the debates I appreciate that grandpa Joe seriously we appreciate that and let me take a sip I'm getting tired Darth horse says I didn't even complain when you fired me it's true I did fire her I got a lot of pleasure out of it and she didn't complain to give her credit though she she did call me to cry she was crying she said James all you want me to be a moderator I said listen we have to be a neutral channel nothing can get in our way and so I said we have to stick to our guns on this the answer is no oh James but please I'll give you soy and I was like I don't like soy I'm not even I'm not a soy boy so I've got to tell you we are excited though we want to let you know we appreciate you being with us too many usernames taken thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live chat and Jojo Freelancer KUP thanks for coming by we are glad to have you it says Jay Smith faces David Wood please hey that might be a juicy one I'm open to it and you to have heck you thanks for coming by good to see you again Sheenie NM says thank you for having me hey it's our pleasure and Darth Horses I'm the exact opposite mister that's funny you're you got a good sense of humor I always appreciate that gross patate thanks for coming by says yes sensitivity is a big thing in the world today and it's true we are not your grandma's debate channel as we always say we are going to have more controversial debates principle method says to you guys do vaccine debates tonight's going to be close to a vaccine debate we don't have debates on whether or not the vaccines work we don't do that topic that's just a little bit too controversial we do however have debates on for example whether or not Joe Rogan's podcast does more harm than good and then in particular regarding the vaccines though so it is going to be related servant of Allah thanks for coming by we are glad you are with us as well as let's see here in the old live chat chess 119 says James how much do you bench I don't know it's probably only like 10 pounds I'm a little weakling long nights you to have been says James is one of the coolest people on earth thank you for your kind words seriously that means a lot says met him in Dallas and we did get to meet I am so excited that you made it to our conference so thanks for your support of it that really does mean a lot long nights you to have been and King genius thanks for coming by good to see you and spiritual psychotherapy services glad you are with us as well as I'm getting I got a drink let me drink a little bit more water alpha where is it I just saw alpha dragon one thanks for coming by we're glad you are here and sign says soy boy that's right we do have channel memberships if you enjoy the channel that's a way to support the channel and you get to use some of these based on these I've got to show you we love these emojis I am telling you is amazing the channel memberships are awesome and you get to you can use the emoji emoji to call someone a soy boy if you'd like as well I am excited though we've got to tell you my dear friends let's see Shaquille Solomon thanks for coming by King genius glad you are here and let's see here for tribe good to see you says think Catholic would be a good addition to the moderate debate I agree we do want to host Catholic so I haven't meant to keep them out it's just that we don't have usually once we break into a topic it's way easier where we get many more guests of that position and so I absolutely we're absolutely open to having Catholic guests as we do want to welcome them as well Andrew Henry says get Shabir and Daniel to debate please that would be juicy although don't they agree for the most part let me know what they would debate and let's see here Darthor says James say this water is is it Bussin is that the word is that what the young people are saying nowadays Darthor is like 10 years younger than me she's like very you know she's got way less she's not as mature as me it's true so she but she teaches me the slang and Khalid says moderate debates what do you hope to accomplish by making debates we want a couple of things one we want everybody to feel like they have been treated fairly 100% no doubt about it we want everybody to have their fair shot because hey I used to be a debater and sometimes I thought some channels weren't that fair so we want to be as neutral as possible that's one thing the other thing is we want to discuss the big questions of life because a lot of times people don't get that anymore we want to bring people together from different walks of life because we don't think there's anything wrong with a channel where let's say it's just one person giving their viewpoint that's okay I don't think I have anything I don't think there's anything wrong with that but we see that among a lot of those podcasts like that we're like hey we want to have discussions and debates where you have different people from different walks of life engaging each other still because things have become polarized today and we want to still have people having conversations with one another Zagros, Auskincense, James I think I have a good idea that could be implemented to this channel to make it even more awesome can we have a 5-10 minute zoom chat sometime to hear my proposal I'm open to that it's really busy right now so give me time but if you email me that's something that we can work on it's just really busy lately I am behind on email so I've got to let people know if you haven't heard back from me hey bear with me it's just that everything's really it's extra busy right now beast Militia or military says do you think you could ever get Kyle against Steve McCrae from the non sequitur show I don't think we could I don't think Kyle's going to be up for it I don't know if Steve would either I think it would be juicy to say the least but I just don't know if it's going to happen and then check proofs of Islam says get Daniel he could chew and Dilla huntie to debate we are working on doing that this summer no joke we're hoping to host them in person slide diggity dog thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live chat and let's see here Gina says what about doing debates now and then with historical or fictional characters from novels or movies and costumes I think that would be fun possibly I'm open to it we just have a lot a lot of requests lately so I haven't really gotten to do a lot of the ideas that people put forth yet but we are at 554 likes we only need six more likes to get to 560 that's amazing so will you be one of the six people that gets us to that next mark of 560 likes for the live stream and then what is it let's see Darth or I may have responded to your message just because you're a punk and I always like to put you in your place but also confirmed in Natty says hey James can you pronounce this in that's my best guess principle methods thanks for coming by says delante versus Daniel would be juicy and it absolutely would we are hoping to host that in person this summer no guarantees we haven't even mentioned it to the speakers yet so that's something that I got to tell you in context that is not something that we know if it will for sure happen we do want to but it's something that you know hopefully we can Lord willing that's the goal Zambie is sabbiness thanks for coming by we are glad that you were with us as I want to come and debate flat earthers maybe we're going to give that topic a little bit of a break for a while but maybe in the future Andrew Henry says I'm pretty sure Daniel considers Shabir's opinions to be heretical because Shabir has more progressive interpretations of parts of Islam like hijab apostasy etc so they could debate ah okay good to know thanks for letting me know that and so that's it's a possibility and then alpha phoenix says dude you're still live yes we are we're glad you were with us King genius thanks for coming by and my dear friends thanks Wilmar for being a channel supporter we appreciate you being a member of the channel and we've got to tell you we are excited about the future thank you guys for joining us our story is just beginning so join us while we are a small we are excited don't get me wrong 500 and or what is it 64 thousand and 600 subscribers is huge don't get me wrong we are excited about that but I've got to tell you my dear friends our story is just beginning we have big plans for the future we are excited about the future and we're going to be doing bigger and better things in the future so encourage you join us while we're small hit that subscribe button because we're doing big things we want to say thanks for all of your support my dear friends as well as want to let you know we are absolutely determined to carry out the vision of providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field as we get people from different walks of life talking about the big questions of life so thanks everybody I love you guys and I'll see you tonight as we have this amazing debate tonight you don't want to miss it for the first time ever Destiny and Gavin McGinnis collide it is going to be a monster debate tonight my dear friends so we'll see you there for that one thanks for your support Brooks Sparrow in the old live chat says hit that subscribe button and I couldn't agree more Brooke thanks everybody and excited to see you soon thanks everybody I love you guys you guys make this fun whether you be atheist Christian Muslim whether you be atheist Christian Muslim we're glad you were here I love you guys thanks for making this fun and we're excited about the future see you soon in fact big juicy debate on the bottom right of your screen