 Okay, there's a stink tech America finding his way. We're going to talk about standstill in Washington And we're going to keep on talking about it until it stops standing still simple. Okay Winston Welch joins us and Stephanie stole Dalton join us from various places in the world Welcome to the show you guys Thank you So, you know, I know we've talked about this before But it's my metronome theory it ticks from side to side and He still can't get his way in Congress How important is that Stephanie? Can we can he survive? Without a congressional agenda We cannot it cannot be that he doesn't get a Breakthrough and it looks like from what I'm reading and seeing today that there are some some Blooming some springtime blooms. I mean there do seem to be some positions opening up To to really think hard about what they're doing and I guess the biggest news is that there are 11 Republicans on board for the infrastructure bill now when it gets right down exactly to the details Like if there's gonna be a tax or not There there could be some dross right there, but things are starting to move around a little bit and It looks like even mansion is beginning to rethink What he's had he has stated that he is not adamantly opposed to the Also the filibuster, but anyway as far as as one's concerned it looks like we might get some some Didn't mention say finally that here's his position. I guess it was on the infrastructure bill And he hadn't done that before so this was a whole new chapter I don't know what do you know what his position was that he expressed the points that he wanted demands he was making Well, as far as I can understand it He just does not believe in making any major voter changes any changes in in voter law that are not a voter law Okay, in voter law, but he seems now to be coming around He's made some a list of amendments that's very long and for me very surprising because they they are Attractive and I have heard some commentators Support that in other words he wants to He wants identification for voting but also to be accompanied by an Additional piece of ID like a utility bill. So I mean, it's not unreasonable And I think that that might be attractive to the Republicans and then he's also Against gerrymandering he wants that done away with he wants 17 days or 15 days Ahead of voting open completely and continuously for voting. So things things like that is what he's he's willing to to support if those amendments are in in the package and he also wants the State the standards for voting to be across the states So he's he's actually some some of these are pretty high bars I mean having I don't think the Republicans want that kind of uniformity or that imposition of a federal Routine upon them, but that's what he mentioned is suggesting that and I think that that makes sense that it's not different Across the states, but the same and we've done a long way to get in some of this straight down Well, let me let me be pessimistic and say suppose He's he's an agent for the Republicans here. I mean Could it be that some of his points will not be acceptable to them So Biden winds up negotiating not with one but two forces three forces the Democrats which he's already you know negotiated with and Mansion who's in the middle he has his demands and then the Republicans who have more stringent demands And at the end of the day, we we've lost months upon months of delay Is that a possible scenario? Yeah, I think Biden's coming back and they're saying that he's he's gonna look at all of this and see what his options are But he's not he's not gonna dismiss going it alone if if he doesn't get enough Participation so I mean sounds like Biden's in the place We expect him to be and if mansion is now getting a little dissatisfied with the lack of any any Support at all that he's you know moving around a little bit on on the filibuster So I I think that there might be a few more levers for Biden to use than than he has today And and mansion is key of course Didn't you say that he had 11 Republicans who'd go along with him on the Yeah, infrastructure bill, but they want they have some demands. I mean they are asking to have They then they don't want the tax and I don't see and I don't know the Financial people don't seem to be too upset by that that somehow will pay for it. Anyway, it's a bait and switch, isn't it in other words Okay, we're gonna do all that at the last minute Mitch McConnell says oh, yeah great idea, but we don't have a way to pay for it Because there's no tax provision in there. So we have to kill it that way. I can just see that happening Well, I guess I have some confidence because that Biden's coming off a success now according to what I'm hearing he's coming back strong and Ready to maybe think this thing through constructively and for what's in the best interest of Yeah, of the of the country and there's a huge popular demand for the infrastructure bill. Oh, sure The press has been doing a good job on showing us where the bridges are falling down And I mean to the extent that they've done that It's clear. There's a problem on the other hand, you know, there's a lot more bridges that are falling down Then the ones they're able to show us So Winston you sent around a couple of articles this morning one of them. I took a look at The New York Times it was and the other was the New York magazine Which I couldn't see For the lack of membership, but you know, it was may I use this term? It was optimistic It was it was cautiously optimistic About where Biden was on his way back. He's on his back on his way back right now. I think and I guess part of this is how well he did In Europe because that has an effect on things So I guess to ramp up to my big question was, you know, how well is it doing in congress? Is how well that he did do in europe? Well, it's not it's not just that Biden's on his way back literally from America America is on its way back America is back And that was the message that he was giving in europe It was just saying a sane adult is back in charge Our institutions are getting a cleaning We're going through and we talked about you talked about infrastructure and ridges crumbling This is the the crumbling infrastructure of our moral ethical institutional educational Um I might say even spiritual sort of infrastructure of our nation economic infrastructure You name it and and now we have a person in office who is committed to saying, you know Yeah, we we tried whatever we just have been trying and that was disaster and we're back He the european said it almost point blank Just it's so nice to have a sane rational person to deal with even if They would be happy with george bush or or any reasonable republican No, the times article that you sent also included a Comment to the effect that you know was there was some flies in that ointment Um, although they liked seeing that trump was no longer there They had little concern about whether biden could handle it Well, you know the thing is is Joe biden is he's a steady eddy He's not a this glamorous boisterous Fellow who charges into the room. He's not a donald who just obsessed everything and everybody's like, well, what's going to go on next? He's he's just a good person who is stable and sane and they don't get all of the attention You know, I I guess you could liken him to um, you know, angela murkel a stable sane uh individual Who's promoting fundamental rule of law and liberal democracy at the end of the day And so when he went to meet with uh, putin there was no name calling and there was no harassment They said there was no personal acrimony and basically all he said was Yeah, we really don't like our uh our infrastructure being messed with and I suppose you wouldn't like yours being messed with either It was just sort of a very gentle reminder that america also has uh You know abilities, but I think he was uh, we'll see what happens I mean putin it comes across as very cocky and confident and you know He was enabled and coddled or coddling depending on how you look at it for the last four years um And I think now that Joe biden is there and he went to nato and you know, he's saying We're back to the old nato. It's what I thought was interesting was was him adding in the china mix That was actually Um something that I'm not sure that I would have pressed with nato right now I would have just reinforced nato for being nato And they're pulling out of You think you had to he had to make some statement about why china was not there Um, and that we're trying to fit in the world order Because well, this is the g. I mean they kicked out rush a few years ago So it's the g7 should china be there Arguably well china's and the these other ones they go into but the g7 could really be you know renamed You know america and it's In western europe in europe Yeah, and canna of course, uh, let's not forget canada, but I think his main message was this uh, and I don't know Which are artically referred to was that in the intelligentser? Or uh, no, how he's doing an article Uh, you know, there was another one that I thought was Um Was also it was also good, you know and and this this idea that that he's failed or that it's over He has many levers and switches at his command and the fact that that uh last stefney was saying there's even 10 people that are looking at crossing over this is A news like that is incredible. We didn't hear that for the last four years That's where the victories are coming the victories are coming where people can sit down with their families and friends and co-workers Add a picnic a post-covid picnic and maybe get along and maybe just try and not mention The last four years because we have someone who's just sort of he like I said We need to bake and baking soda poured over everything and he's baking soda But baking soda has a hell of a lot of uses if you haven't looked it up Look it up on the internet and joe biden is a good soothing baking soda for the country at the same time. He is Slowly and steadily working his way through many Areas of government that we don't really see and that but that in the end are uh are going to be very consequential Not to be the gadfly on this But you know, there was those who were saying he's running out of time And that's the question before the the house today I mean, we keep hearing these Suggestions that you know, he's doing the right thing and it's he's a very decent guy and he has the right the right Sensibilities, but the fact is that none of his programs have gotten through congress And that's the reality. That's the bottom line And there are a lot of op-ed pieces through the proposition That he doesn't have an indefinite period of time to to bring his agenda forward He's going to lose credibility and soon. What's your answer? No one has an an infinite amount of time Absolutely does he need to get some wins out of there? Yes, but as stepney was pointing out You have a couple people who are able to thwart his Anything any agenda that he has and so he He's a he's a savvy politician He didn't see in congress for 40 years before this and become, uh, you know, uh vice president without Learning a thing or two. So I think as we go through and and as joe mansion is able to say You know what? I really love this idea of bipartisanship And I thought the olden days were there, but they're not and gives gives that a chance to fail As one of these articles suggests But fail fairly so actually give it a fair chance for bipartisanship What's a fair chance july august september fair chance is january go mansion decides it's a fair chance So the sooner they can press that the better So it's a good faith effort and you hope that people will sign on and actually it gives republicans some space to reclaim republic You know olden day sign of that Um, uh, yeah, there's a sign of that and just the fact that like stephanie was saying he's there's there's talking going on and actually being reported about it's like, uh It's a breath of fresh air where it's going. I don't know. Maybe there's still breathing stale air but at least they're breathing and Uh, it's somewhat fresh. It's new. It's it's it's something we haven't seen in a while So he does have a period of time But I think after a while he's going to be able to turn the screws on joe mansion and kirsten's I hope so but stephanie, you know, you started this by reporting that 11 people were, you know, going to come around on infrastructure 111 where did that come from? How real is that or is that just another distraction? Well, I I only heard um From from one of them and I think that it does validate what winston's saying about Something new I mean because it was a second committee meeting that occurred while biden was gone And the first one of course was marching to to what mcconnell said so Nothing but now with them having the second meeting and I I don't I don't know You know how if it's going to be a trickster thing jay like you mentioned before that at the end There'll always be something that'll pull the string right and unravel it but for instance this man, um His name is uh, he's from indiana Um, and he's a republican of course from indiana and he's um, Todd Young so he's on the list now. He was being very straightforward in his comments And not uh in any smarkey way or trying to be nasty about or you know Negative on what all anything a republican a democrat offers, but he was saying that he would not support And he believed that the group was from the republican side that they're not interested in in paying for this All right through the taxes. They don't want more taxes living on the people and then even more importantly I think for some of the work that Kamala Harris and the president have been done have done is to um, He wanted to reassign all of the care Categories so the health care the child care the elderly programs and so some of the all of that group Back to the committees where that kind of work usually stays and and is legislated there So he he was more specific on the kinds of things that that were issues that that they would want some give on that Now I think as you are saying with biden coming back and being a sensible reasonable person and also being complimented by Putin on having been Uh responsible for a constructive conversation that they had he said he said that In his in his um, I don't know what the translation issues are but the word that was used is that Putin did say it was a constructive conversation So I think that biden can come back and know jay. He's got to know about the pressure of the time It's such a good point. It can't go on much longer So you can take a look at what these people are going to give or not give and decide to go with Because let me flip it on you for a minute. Um, all that considered If you were a republican mastermind on this like a mcconnell Um, you would you would do cherry picking here? You would say, okay. Uh, first thing we do is we make we make the republicans look good in their states because we want to You know advance their popularity Um, assure their reelection. What have you want to show the republicans are bringing home some bacon So we'll do infrastructure and we'll negotiate it so that critical republican states are getting that infrastructure Okay, that that works in his favor for sure Voting does not Okay, they'll never ever be in my view under this scenario anyway They'll never be an approval of any voting bill not the first one not the second one not a chance Okay, then then you have other things like gun control never never gun control. That's off the table Um, what's the other one immigration immigration same thing We're talking about white supremacy here in the south where we're not we're not going to do that ever ever ever ever So mcconnell's earlier admonition that you know, the senator was never going to vote for biden's stuff Um, you know, that's probably true as to at least some stuff. So let me let me throw the possibility at you Okay, mcconnell lets infrastructure pass He lets it pass without a tax solution Because he doesn't want to offend the big givers, you know, they need the big givers And and indeed some of the corporations are coming back Now I think bowing was a good example Bowing is coming back to make contributions to republicans Um, i'm not not sure why they did that but they did it and others probably were in the same ballgame. So So they don't want the Republicans do not want to increase the corporate tax, but they want the infrastructure to make republicans more popular in their states Okay, and after that they're back to the same the same The same music We don't want anything that biden wants. We want to look bad and incompetent and and ineffective Uh, and we want to maintain the drumbeat Um on voter suppression. What do you think about my scenario? well, um, I think that there is a mcconnell mandate as you Say, I was thinking guiding principle, but actually no, it's a mandate But somehow they have stepped a little bit away from that in this second committee meeting. However, that also supports your your uh Theory that this might just be another playing the game. So here's what I think we've got is um Biden coming back. This is an experienced politician Service a public service person who it has everything you can possibly have to bring to making a decision On legislation that he must make and uh, so he's got everything to do with it So we'll come back. He'll show us, you know What his decision is if it's to go without them cut him loose and just go with them Getting it through or if he's going to make any more adjustments and cater any more to him because he doesn't have the power to get it through Anyway, does he well if he gets 10 of them If he gives enough to get the 10 the 11 is actually 11 that's infrastructure on the infrastructure now And then he's got a wavering a wavering of mansion on that the uh, the filibuster So he's still gone. I don't know what's the deal with the arizona woman cinema But um, I don't know it seems like she's not that much of a problem It looks like she might go with the group if if she goes so I I think that that's maybe what biden will do I mean, he's nobody can make nobody has more to bring to this decision than he does And uh, and he understands his legacy issues and he understands his timeline and he also knows mitch mcconnell So he knows mitch mcconnell more than anybody else too having worked with him and he's a realist about this He's not under any romantic bro notions about mcconnell And uh, so we'll see what he decides to do it. Maybe that he's going to go it go without him Because I hope we see soon one way or the other. So winston, you know, I let's get down to the weeds for a minute Okay, we we talk about what a great guy biden is and all that But how is he actually functioning? Do you have an idea? For example, does he have Ron clain and others out there in the congress Talking to mansion talking to republican senators, for example lobbying them meeting them in the offices Trying to persuade them to come along and and join the necessary tent I mean It's one thing to be in the papers and to shape a world opinion of you as a great guy Uh, although there hasn't been any remarkable dramatic romantic kinds of, um, you know successes here But you know, it is clear that he's a great guy and he's he shaped himself that way Bottom line though is the voting. I mean you could have a popular vote biden would win no question But the voting in the congress is what counts is where the power is How do you change that recipe? How is he changing that recipe? Beyond just his public image, which may or may not change anybody's mind in the senate How does he do that? What's the practical technique? Now the public image does make a lot that he's got he's got solid Rankings because people were sick of the last four years That they're they're happy to have go biden in office for the most part. I mean you have your your full members that aren't but the article you're referring to a new york magazine was by gabriel divinity Biden's stealth strategy for getting big things done even with the split senate That's where he lays out the this this quiet strategy that that he's able to get a lot done more than we realize Yes, he is sending out people. Yes. There are these overtures being made. He is he's a senator that's now become the president He knows how this work gets done and doesn't get done donald trump blustered into town I mean you we all remember the shock lick on his face when he won the election, right? Like oh my goodness. I don't even I couldn't even find my hotel in the city, you know I mean that's probably what he was thinking and And that's not what we have here with the consummate insider. So You know if you're a republican senator mcconnell has said you stay away from biden Claim and all the rest of them. I don't want I don't want to hear about any meeting I don't want to hear about any phone calls. I don't want to hear about any interchange of emails. You stay away I'm telling you. I'm the boss Uh, how easy it is is it for joe biden and his people to actually get meetings with these people and try to convince them I've read anecdotally that like for the infrastructure bill that he's sending around uh, mayor pete who's now the director of transportation security a transportation secretary private transportation secretary Um, and and basically has been in charge of a lot of this infrastructure stuff But they said he's very charming. He's meeting with people across the aisle because he is from you know He was from indiana as well. So this is you know, the heartland of america Um, yeah, I we're for reader our viewers to just a couple more articles because it's important They do their own research but one is I found interesting in in 538 an article called why the two party system is effing up us democracy and effing is We got that we're old another one just in case just of the masses. Don't don't get upset about it Um, there's another one that came out where uh, we're getting all these leaks now We got a whole bunch of leaks coming out about what's happened in the last four years The books haven't come out yet What about all of the foyers that are kind of come out? But this last one was in uh vanity fair On how donald trump pressured the partner justice to investigate that italian satellites changed trump votes on biden ones Um, and then the one that uh, you have asked often is anything ever going to happen The atlantic came out with an article by ronald brownstein says how to hold trump accountable Um the extent of the former president's corruption may be too great for americans to fathom And he goes in there on different ways of how this is going to happen from citizen journalists And and on up to respected people like uh We'll say, you know the boltons of the world on up to committees that are uh, that we need to create a truth commissions And then of course the the states doing their own work and congress may be stepping in in some fashion as well as other ways But it's effectively i at the end of the day I don't think anything will happen to donald trump beyond financial stuff, but around him there will be the fallout So you know bolton one is lost You know trump tried to stop him on the book and there was litigation he won that It's gonna all this stuff is going to come out and I think all of that is going to weigh in In helping joe biden and other people just say This was such a disaster now. We're finding out that he was spying on Journalists on democrats on probably on mitch mitch mcconnell. I mean, we we don't know the extent of this This is just a tip of the iceberg. Let me let me go to stephanie All of what's coming out is in the press And it's by way of leaks. It's it's not necessarily anybody official You know coming before us. It's they're going to the press and and I and I really wonder let me throw up another dark possibility at you You know, could it be that joe biden doesn't want to go after The department of justice And trump's minions right now That he wants to sort of hold it over their heads But he doesn't want to have this big investigation Um, because it's more valuable in the possibility Than it is in the reality Um, and maybe he thinks that will soften up The members of congress Who but they did something really gross yesterday. I forget what it was the republicans in the senate just incredible Um, but they're still doing it, you know But maybe biden thinks that if he holds it over their heads and he doesn't actually Lower the bar. That's a pun by the way He doesn't He doesn't come down on them with the commissions and investigations right now And he probably hasn't left to say about that. It's better for him. It's better for him because maybe Uh, they will be better negotiating partners in the possibility of getting hurt Then if they do get hurt, what do you think? I think that's really interesting And I think that there's no one better to have that as one of his strategies than than uh, biden because if you'll recall They started coursing around with his son Remember um hunter came up a long time ago and what did biden do? He just let it ride and you know at this point It's done We know he's interested in hunter biden anymore like as they shouldn't have been from the very first time Like you know, he's not running for president by the way or anything else But I I think that that that's you're making me realize through that question That biden knows quite well how to do that and how to handle that situation And there are many benefits which he's already received from applying that approach So hey, you might be right Uh in his book of plays with that A major I think we have to watch this so carefully and and see where the dots connect us And see where the strategies are on both sides And yeah, the strengths that these people are showing we we're learning more and more about the venality Of mitch mcconnell and the harsh show that's going to be dropped on us over the coming years about from trump's real bad And now we're learning about strengths too and I think a lot of them in biden This is a good man for this work. Remember, they're still working on a nature I just remembered that the the thing they public instead in In the senate yesterday is they they refused To give some kind of compensation or award or recognition to the capital police Yes, the goal Yeah, is that is that gross is that gross? Um, but you know, there's sort of there's still a lockstep in many ways And um, it's and hopefully it'll it'll it'll break down So winston how much time? You know, I mean, this could all be a real Uh kabuki Now how much time does he have To get something through whether it's infrastructure Voting rights the filibuster those three are the likely ones Um, how much time before before the press comes down on him and they will They are starting to do that now um, and thus the people and then that uh, you know, uh Enhances the mcconnell and and the republicans in their determination Not to give them anything to make them make us all wait to the 2022 elections and then try to regain control of both houses That's the obvious plan So at what point is it too late winston? well, it was too late 40 years ago when we started dismantling everything in this nation, but you're not answering my question We're we're there is no deadline that i'm going to give you j I'm going with slow steady eddy. He's making his he has a playbook He knows what levers to press. He's uh exerting pressure where he can and he's accomplishing things how he can And right now I just want to give him some breathing room because i'm kind of enjoying waking up not Not looking at the damage report every by the hour and watch out for the future though Watch out for the future if we have both houses and the hands of republicans Watch out for that. That's going to be a really really bad. We had bad surprises here in policy Okay, let's go to the final comments um, stephanie What are your comments to leave us with in terms of our appreciation of the news our examination of these and other issues In the next week or so. What's your thought? well, I i'm thinking that today has a little bit of a positive wrap on s1 on the That uh law that looks like more and more people more and more of the The senate's coming around to that um And they are at least expressing their opinion that it makes sense and and we do need this and uh, it's time to to Sanctify the the voting rights that people need to have so anyway, I'm fit for today What what's going to happen when mitch mcconnell comes in to try and Getting its way or others. Um, we'll see but right right now. It looks like it's a positive thing Well, you know what they say From your lips the god's ears. That's what they say And and winston, uh, do you do you agree with stephanie? Do you have more on that? Uh, let's comment. Let's comment. We're kind of calm. We got the senate unanimously passed the juneteenth bill Which was stunning to me um, and of course there's that's a real interesting thing and uh, we also had the uh, supreme court essentially punt on the uh, on the city of philadelphia ruling About uh same-sex couples and adoption, right? So we're seeing uh, there's a supreme court refused to turn over the obama Obamacare and they've refused to return. So I think there's kind of a real sense that people won't admit On the right, especially that they're kind of enjoying some calm and not everything being in chaos every single second So that's going to play into factors back home in peoria when those guys go back They're going to be like we're tired of the chaos you can Be against that or for that, but we want you to work together and I think that's what statistics That's what polls prove out and I think that's what we're going to see. So I am fundamental answer optimistic today On thursday, uh, june 17th with where we're at right now as we're going forward while we have a lot of work to do A lot a lot a lot of work to do We have the tools we have the people and we have the capabilities to do it It's just the will to carry it out one last question. I can't I can't resist asking you this one last question What do we know if anything? What do we expect about august about trump's threats of doing something in august? I'll ask you both that question Uh, let's start with you winston He's no I We have so many other things to do that the the Noise meter just needs to be dialed down and the oxygen needs to go out of the room for Reporting on them anymore. We have enough with marjorie taylor green. Whatever she says that day should be front page news I don't care what it is Good good answer Stephanie you there seems to be the consensus that that uh, former president is certifiable That literally certifiably mentally diminished and so That's what we've got. So what does that mean for august? It's that he will try to do whatever he wants to do maybe the same thing again Or maybe someplace else or maybe an all 50 up all 50 of our states let's run after our capital building and um, it could be that he's going to do that but I Gonna be more and more of a consensus that people are going to come to understand What this phenomenon is that occupied the white house and begin to see that actually something like that Can happen and we need to We need to change the department of justice's regulation that you cannot indict a sitting president So hopefully the train can kind of go down that that track well, um, you know, uh one my reaction to all of this uh, is that um, number one He's running out of gas He's running out of gas Number two is that we are in a new time We are in a new time. We are discovering a new time and hopefully it is a better time But my my last point would be we're still hanging in the balance. Thank you very much. Winston. Thank you, Stephanie Great to talk to you guys. See you next week. Take care.