 Welcome everybody to today's panel. Big thanks to the Columbia MSRED program within the Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation. Rebecca, thank you for organizing this panel. We have a lot to cover today. The title of the panel is Disrupture. We are talking to some of the top minds right now looking at the future of work, the future of real estate in different and creative ways. We're very excited to have them here. We have a panel that is so august, so respected in our industry. I won't introduce them. They can go around the horn and introduce themselves. Just a few housekeeping issues before we get started. We are going to go around the horn for questions to all our panelists, have a little bit of an open discussion. And then before we conclude, we will engage in what I like to call the lightning round. For those of you uninitiated with one of my panels, the lightning round is picture the most fun you've ever had in your life, multiply it by 10, and you can almost get a sense of what the lightning round is. My name is Zach Arons. I'm a co-founder and partner at Metaprop. We're an early stage venture capital fund focused on PropTech. I'm also a professor of PropTech at Columbia GSAP in the MSRED program. I'm thrilled to be here. In case you miss the live stream of this, it is being recorded. The recording of this broadcast will then become an NFT and I plan to sell it for a hundred thousand dollars and donate the proceeds of that back to Columbia. So if anybody's interested in that, please DM me afterwards. So anyway, let's get on with it. We have a lot to cover as I mentioned. I will introduce our panelists. We will start with Thomas Hennessy. Thomas, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. Pleasure to be here. Thanks to Columbia for inviting me to participate. Thank you as well. And my name is Tom Hennessy. I'm managing partner of growth strategies at Hennessy Capital. And I also serve as co-CEO of a SPAC called PropTech Investment Corporation too. Our organization Hennessy Capital has sponsored eight SPACs about a billion aid of equity over the past nine years. We've been one of the leading independent sponsors of SPACs over that period of time. And I'm really privileged to be here with all of you today to talk a little bit about SPACs and PropTech and public equity markets. Thank you. Thank you so much, Thomas. We're very happy to have you. Next up, we have Noah Greenberger. Noah Jerome, you wanna introduce yourself? Good thing. Pleasure to be speaking here. Noah Greenberger, I work as an investment strategist for my family office, Time Equities. We're primarily in the real estate market, but over the past 10 or 15 years, we've got more involved in the public equity and the hedge fund side. I specifically work in identifying new growth technology markets to invest in. And I've also started my own technology startup called Merge. Thanks very much. Happy to have you, Noah. And last but not least, Ryan Siminetti. Great to be here today. Special thank you to Columbia and the best MC out there, Mr. Zach Arons. Ryan Siminetti co-founder, CEO of Conveen, we're a tech-enabled hospitality brand and services platform that partners with both commercial landlords and also progressive organizations to design what we think are premium places to meet, to work, and to host inspiring events. And we also have a suite of digital technology solutions, primarily to support virtual and hybrid events and conferences like the one we're hosting today. All right, thank you very much, Ryan. So let's get right into the meat and potatoes of the questions. This panel was tasked with investigating the long-term and medium-term impacts of return to work paradigms in our new world. Our new world has been impacted by COVID-19. We're seeing new trends in how people approach their lifestyles, how businesses look to hire, how businesses think about operating and running their own real estate. These things are changing. They're changing very quickly. We've all seen technology adoption accelerate as well. So I'll start with Thomas, an important, he's a humble guy, but it's an important to level set that this gentleman has been in the SPAC game since before it was cool. He's sort of like the Satoshi Nakamoto of SPACs. If you can think about him, if you want to use a crypto analogy. So I want to just get at the heart of the intersection of future work paradigm and what you're looking for, Thomas, as you have a new SPAC in the market, probably looking to make an acquisition, is are some of the trends you've seen that have happened in the past year impacting your decision of what type of company you're looking to buy? Maybe if you can take us through your thinking right now. Yeah, sure. Well, I'm not sure SPACs are cool yet, but nonetheless, it's been a pretty dynamic market over the past year. So just to level set a little bit, we raised our first PropTech SPAC not too long ago, about a year and a half ago in November of 2019. And we closed on our first business combination, SPAC IPO with a company called Port Group, PRCH, which is now traded on NASDAQ. And Portch is a vertical software platform for the home services category. So they provide software, ERP, CRM to inspectors, moving companies, roofers, everyone in and around the home. And the home has become really important over the past year. The tailwinds in the residential category in single family are tremendous. People are spending more time in the home, and I know we'll discuss this later on the panel here, but people are spending more time in the home, they're investing in their homes, they're upgrading homes, they're renovating their homes. Why? Because we're spending more time in our home. And so it's a really important topic today. So as we see what's happening in the SPAC market, the SPAC deals that have gone public, let's say Matterport, which is a 3D visual, spatial technology that allows you to essentially Google maps or Google Earth through real estate, through a physical space, through an office, through a multi-family asset, through apartment leasing. With porch, you have the vertical software platform that allows people to do their jobs easier from home. So increasingly with HIPPO and Latch, smart access, so you don't have to touch the doors, a lot of these deals are going public. State's title, which is now called FILMA is another one. There's some really compelling companies that are going public that are accessing the public markets because there's tremendous tailwinds behind their category. In terms of what we're looking at and what we're focused on, we're looking for category winners. So we're somewhat agnostic, whether it's commercial, residential or construction technology focused. We're looking for businesses that certainly have held up well, demonstrated the KPIs and perhaps tailwinds through the pandemic. And you're increasingly to see some of the businesses that are going public today with some of those tailwinds. All these investor presentations are available for all of you to go look up. So any of these public deals with SPACs, you can type in the investor deck and go to the websites and take a look for yourself. Thank you very much, Thomas. We will circle back to you later on SPACs and some other trends. I wanna pivot the conversation a little bit to Noah. Noah, you have experience investing in hard asset real estate and now more recently running your own company, your own tech media company. From our experience with our portfolio of PropTech startups, almost every CEO is now thinking about how they can leverage labor arbitrages, become a truly global organization even if they're small. Essentially maybe have a team in India, a team in Ukraine, a team in Argentina, figure out how everything's supposed to work from a time zone and culture perspective, but essentially run their business that way where the company's never sleeping. How have you changed or maybe not changed your approach as a CEO due to this new explosion in work from anywhere culture? I was fortunate enough that maybe about a year before the pandemic started when I was first forming Merge, we made a top level decision that we wanted to keep the business as fluid as possible in the event that we wanted to change headquarters cities or anything like that. So we began building it, utilizing all these modern labor tools, things like Upwork and Fiverr from everything from graphic design artists to web development. And even in some instances, I was hiring heads of VC funds as consultants who lived in New York, maybe 10 miles from me and we never met. We worked together for an entire year and this was before the pandemic once again. So I think we're really seeing a new paradigm in employment and in the way that you can create these real and productive connections with people despite distance or even in the case where that's not a factor, it might just be simply more convenient. Very interesting, thank you. So Ryan, you're a CEO, but you're also a provider of physical real estate in the felt world and that's been your business model for many years, for over a decade. So how did you, this new trend that NOAA is alluding to, how did that impact people's desire for a third space, a place to physically congregate and how did that force you to move your business more digital? Yeah, look, I think one, when I think about COVID, I think about it as the great accelerator. I think as NOAA pointed out, this shift towards a more distributed workforce, that was happening pre COVID. The desire for choice, flexibility and experience from a talent perspective, we've been doing research on that for the better part of a decade and that was the same three things that people wanted nine years ago when we did that research. I think it's being accepted at a cultural level within organizations in a way that it never was in the past, including at the most senior levels of an organization, C-suite down. And we were in a war for talent before and we're in a war for talent coming out of this. And if I even look at my company today, while of course we believe deeply in the power of physical space and human to human connections and we do not see technology ever fully replacing that, we've adopted a remote first policy ourselves. I mean, if I look at our team today, our product and engineering team, our company more broadly speaking, we have people working all over the country. This was pre-COVID and has been accelerated during COVID. We built a pretty significant engineering presence in South America, where we've got a team there that's been working closely with us on our new virtual and hybrid technology platform. So thank God for us, we had started this digital transformation about four years ago and we believed at some point the future of work would be hybrid. HQ at home, third space, we believe it would be hybrid in the context of physical and digital. And if anything, all we've done since COVID is dramatically accelerate our capability on the digital side. And I talked a little bit about our virtual and hybrid platform when I kicked off, but since COVID where we built a platform where Zoom and Microsoft team stops from an experiential perspective, we pick up. And we've hosted hundreds of virtual events over the last year since launching that platform. That will be from a dead stop, probably a $15 million revenue business for us this year alone from zero, 12 months ago. We were recently picked as a collaborator with Marriott Hotels, where our virtual and hybrid technology platform will actually be running the hybrid experience in a thousand full service hotels around the world where we now actually get to decouple the convene experience from our physical spaces, which is something we've always aspired to do, but hadn't really figured out the right way to do it. And I feel vindicated to some extent and validated that we've been preaching hybrid for a very long time. And I think we're very well positioned. Obviously the last year has been brutal for anyone in our line of work, but I think we're really uniquely positioned to serve our clients in this new hybrid future with the new capability that we've built. Thank you. So just to clarify, hybrid was sort of always on your product roadmap and the digital component was accelerated with COVID. Dramatically, I mean, we thought we were probably three to five years away pre COVID from true, what I would think about is true adoption of hybrid at a macro level, not early adoption, because it's tough to build a business of scale and with our only early adopters, but now that became reality literally in 12 months. I mean, I think what we thought would happen over five to 10 years has literally happened in less than a year. Very interesting. Thank you. So let's pivot back again to Noah. So with what Ryan's saying, how important is getting together physically for you and your team? And if it doesn't make economic sense anymore to sign a 10-year lease or even a shorter lease, what does it mean do hotels become more important? Do retreats become more important? Do places like convenes become more important? Can you walk us through what you're thinking about providing for the team in the future? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, my perspective is a little aggressively forward thinking at times. So one of the things I had in mind was actually sending out our top team members virtual reality headsets to do, as you say, a hybrid of in-person and virtual conferencing. We've had really great success using tools like Zoom and screen sharing to do complex segments of the web development process that I always assumed would have to be done in person so that you could go over each piece of minutia in detail, step by step, but really the tools that have been made available in the past year have dramatically changed the digital working ecosystem. And we've had, obviously as a real estate company with massive quantities of square feet of office space, we've had every opportunity to set up an office in several cities, but ultimately, we made the decision that the way that we're doing things appears to be working. Luckily, I'm a bit of a nocturnal person, so the South African engineers, ours don't seem to bother me. Thank you. And putting your sort of real estate acquisitions hat then on for a second, where if you were looking to acquire commercial real estate right now, where would you want to do it? What type of asset, a suburban office now, all of a sudden more appealing is CBD still, is it Gateway City, is it maybe tertiary markets like Boise, what are your thoughts on that? Well, we left the New York market maybe three years ago. We wrapped up on a luxury tower downtown, 50 West Street, and after that, we kind of felt that the luxury market was flattening. And I mean, during COVID we experienced pretty phenomenally bad metrics from a lot of our retail and commercial assets. Commercial office-based did okay, but I think retail was pulling 40% rent rule or something like that. What we've been mainly doing for the past couple of years and our general strategy of approach has always been to look at really devalued markets. So like in the past couple of years, we've been going into the Netherlands recently and buying up considerable amounts of office-based there because they went through essentially a crash and that means that the assets are cheaper and we like cheap bricks at the end of the day. It's hard to lose that gamble. And for the past five years before that, a little bit contrary to my advice personally, we were going around and buying up outlet malls and shopping centers across the Midwest and there was some potential for kind of an office, retail, experiential workplace community centers there because it's the only building for 150 miles or so. Yeah, that was a trend we were seeing. The repositioning, not so much repositioning, it's really re-imagination of the suburban mall and does this become the community center? Does this become the new church, co-working, gym, mall owners for so many years were reluctant to put tenants like gyms in their facilities. They were hesitant to put a convene type of location and now we're seeing an embrace partially because the dry goods retailers have been struggling but also this is sort of the wave of the future and to your point, there aren't necessarily small towns scattered about in the United States in the same way there might be in Europe. Anyway, thank you for that. Pivoting back again to Thomas, how do you view, you were mentioning Porch which is the company that you successfully de-spacked and the amazing tailwinds that are really results of fundamental undersupply of housing, migration patterns, record low mortgage rates and people starting to care about their homes a lot more because they're spending a lot of time in them. We've also seen a phenomenon of people starting to care about their investment portfolios in a way that they maybe never did before. I trust my person. I put the money in an ETF. Now it's become almost like sport and in fact with sports sort of shutting down for many the stock market sort of became and I bring this up because I follow what we call FinTwit on Twitter and the subreddits and whatnot and Porch is actually spoken about very, very favorably in these communities of retail investors. They love the stock. They think it's got a lot of tailwinds and a really great management team. So anyway, long lead up, but in your SPAC practice how do you view the emergence of the newly empowered levered up and organized retail investor and how does that impact some of the decisions you might be making or not for which companies you're looking to do business with? Sure. Short answer, we view it as a very positive trend and absolutely yes, the retail investor it's pretty clear that working from home is fueling retail activity. So mobile app downloads for retail brokers are way up monthly downloads of Robinhood and Webull are well above the old guard like TD Ameritrade, Fidelity E-Trade and Schwab and web traffic for retail brokerages is at an all time high. So Fidelity still leads the pack but Robinhood is now second on a monthly in terms of monthly visitors. And we think the large sophisticated investors as you said, Zach are now following the message boards and following Reddit because retail investors cannot be ignored. There is a real David versus Goliath narrative and I'm not suggesting that there's a bad player, bad actor and a good actor. That's not what I mean. What I mean is that they're small players and large players and we certainly saw that with respect to the GameStop saga but the data is pretty clear. And so just a few stats from Goldman's chief US equity strategist. So they're now following the dollar value of small lot trades, which is a proxy for retail trades and that's risen by about 85% over the past year. Households will represent the largest source of demand for US stocks in 2021. And that's an estimated net purchase of 350 billion. And we don't think it's stopping. No one believes it's stopping. US households have accumulated over 1.5 trillion and excess savings. And that should rise to about 2.4 trillion by the middle of 2021. So how does this affect any public market participant? Well, overall we think more retail participation very positive. As I said, it diversifies shareholding bases that drives more demand. And yes, there will be some volatility as the large and small players kind of come to an equilibrium over time. And certainly the retail activity will likely dissipate as individuals start to go back to the office and they don't have as much free time or perhaps they're not in front of their screen for as many hours. But the activity is tremendous. It certainly is something that everyone should take notice of and try to understand the data as you're investing as an individual in large businesses or small businesses. From our SPAC perspective, it's important to diversify the shareholding base. Primarily we deal with large longterm fundamental institutions that are investing into the likes of porch or any of the other SPAC deals that I mentioned. They're investing because there is a supply demand in balance today. There's a tremendous amount of supply of capital within the public equity markets. And there's not enough, there's a tremendous amount of demand and supply of public equity capital markets but not enough supply of companies. Small, high growth businesses, small cap, medium cap businesses coming to the public markets. There's probably around 5,000 publicly traded companies today and that number has gone down over time as large private equity investors have taken companies private and there's been a lot of consolidation. So the investable universe is smaller and so public equity investors have fewer areas to invest, fewer companies to invest in. And so in part, SPACs are providing that supply, bringing high growth, exciting businesses with high quality management teams to the public markets. And the good news is that retail investors get to participate in that. It's all disclosed, very similar to a traditional IPO. As I mentioned earlier, the investor presentations are all public for you to review. And so you have the opportunity as a retail investor to participate alongside some of these very large institutions and participate in that same type of growth in return profile. Sorry, can you repeat what you said? I didn't catch what you said. I was just on my Robinhood account. Can you just repeat it? I'm just kidding. There was an awkward silence there for a minute back. I think he said he's not a cat. I'm pretty sure I caught that. Thank you very much, Thomas. It's truly fascinating. I think people consistently underestimate the power of these investors. And what I tell people is ignore them at your own peril. And I think your point about the, which is not talked about often enough, the sort of 30-year bull market we've experienced in this country in private equity has taken so many companies private that would have been public and that maybe there is this fundamental supply-demand imbalance. And even if there is an over-correction and the market sort of gets flooded with these SPACs, at the end of the day, we're actually sort of reinvigorating a market that was dormant for a while and we just didn't realize it was dormant. Anyway, I'll go back to my, yeah, go ahead. Sorry to interrupt. There's one more point. I mean, we're always speaking, most of the media is speaking about retail investors who are trading from home, but the truth is that also the large institutions are also trading from home in front of their desks. And when we're going out on our roadshows to either raise capital for our businesses in the form of a pipe, private investment in public entity or raising a new SPAC, we're speaking with some of the largest, most sophisticated and large institutions that are working from home, just like everyone else. And the roadshow, as we knew it, to go around Manhattan or Boston or any other major money market doesn't happen anymore. There's virtual bell-ringings. There are no longer in-person bell-ringings. And so I think we have to acknowledge in the topic of this panel is working from home, but it's not just retail. It's really across the board. And so, and these large hedge funds are terribly efficient, terribly efficient when you're able to work from home and take back-to-back Zoom meetings for 30 minutes at a time and evaluate new investment opportunities, either roadshows or pipe investments and so on and so forth. And so the financial markets are moving more quickly because everyone has become more efficient and that dynamic environment is creating some of the volatility we think in the markets today. Anybody else wanna speak on this topic? I'm just wondering if there's any chance I could get some reduced fees from all that efficiency, Thomas. Yeah, I was an investor in Matterport myself and it was pretty expensive. Well, as markets mature, certainly fees are compressed and you see that across any asset class. And so, yes, I think in any asset class, especially in real estate and all across real estate in brokers, for example, Compass filed their S1, I mean, you go across any category of real estate and I think there will be fee compression as markets become more efficient. I think the biggest thing though that Thomas said is supply and demand, right? And you have a limited supply of great companies and you have a relatively unlimited supply of money in the system today, right? Every government in the world has been printing money for the better part of a decade and in particular the last year. And now is gonna be further accelerated with massive fiscal stimulus on top of the monetary. And that money has to go somewhere, it has to change yield. I think the good thing for the retail investor is for the most part, you've been locked out of the gains in the private markets, right? Most people aren't with UBS's private client group or Goldman Sachs's and don't get invited into Andreessen's fund or, you know, Sequoia's fund. And, you know, I think what I like about the SPAC market is it's democratizing access to late stage venture in a way that was completely controlled within a very small universe of firms and funds and relatively speaking, high net worth individuals and or institutions that had access to those funds. So I'm sure the market can't support as many SPACs that are being launched each week. And I know raising pipes today is a little bit harder than it was 30 days ago. But I personally, you'll see a tremendous amount of value and think this kind of SPAC world is here to stay. And this will be, I think a permanent part of the capital markets and system on a go forward basis. And, you know, hopefully creates a more equitable financial system where individuals get access to things that they would have otherwise not had access to unless they were a qualified investor. Thank you. Anybody else have any comments on this topic before we move into the lightning round? All right, we are now ready. For those of you in the audience, this is the lightning round. This is the part of the program that our August panelists have not prepared for. They are hearing these questions for the very first time in real time. Okay, so we are going to start with my favorite question. What is the title of this is Disrupture? What is the most disruptive technology that is gonna hit the real estate market in this decade? Is it blockchain, robotics, artificial intelligence, computer vision, 3D printing or something else entirely? I will start here with Noah. So I have a bit of a out of the box thesis on that. I think it's actually probably virtual reality because similar to the way that, you know, our auditory experiences were simulated by the early radio and eventually the ability to throw music or a voice across the globe. This is the first time that we managed to essentially redefine the visual cortex for humans. You know, rebuild it, simulate it and control it comprehensively. And as a result, you know, our definition and our understanding of physical space might change dramatically as well and lock step with that technology's growth. All right, Ryan, same question. Aligned with Noah's answer, but I'll mix it up. I think machine learning and the ability to capture, manipulate and use the data to inform a whole lot of things in real estate is going to transform the industry over the next decade. And just for our audience, if they don't know, what is an example of what you mean by machine learning? I'll use this as an example in our own platform. So we've all been to many conferences, right? And it's really tough to connect with people you wanna talk to. Well, one of the beauties of our virtual conferencing platform is, you know, based on algorithm around data, understanding your profile, what company you work for, what your role is, we can suggest to you who you should talk to at a conference as an example. And so you could think about that type of application informing decision-making across every single touch point, both at the asset level and then in the ecosystem that surrounds it. Thank you, Thomas, same question. Most impactful buzzword technology of the next decade. Buzzword technology, I'm gonna go with anything innovating in and around construction. As a former real estate investor, we invested quite a bit in large-scale developments. There's an incredible amount of waste and materials and time in and around development of real estate, all types of real estate. And so if someone, and there's a lot of companies that are focused on prefabrication of steel structural systems or modular or bringing in software to bring a digital thread throughout the construction life cycle. If someone can figure that out, I think there's the productivity loss in the construction industry is tremendous. And there's a lot of ways to capture value and create a much more efficient and safe environment for the development. Thank you, we'll stay on you. Same categories, what is the most over-hyped technology of our current decade as it relates to the real estate market? Thomas, you first. Over-hyped? Okay, well, I think you have to look at some of the categories in the public equity markets today. And I think there's certain categories in around the home, buying homes, selling homes, where you have to look at the fundamentals of a business, the profit margin, the unit economic level and ultimately, yes, there are very large businesses that have been built on operational losses by reinvesting, but that reinvestment at the corporate level requires profit at the unit economic level. So you need to make money on an individual unit in order to continue to invest to create that organization. So I think as anyone evaluates, getting back to the retail topic, some of these large organizations that have gone public recently or are public, dig into the financials, take a look at some of the APIs and profit, the margins in particular, to see if it's over-hyped or not. Yeah, I wanna just focus on that for a second. If you look at, if you talk to people at real experts in the space that say the National Association of Realtors and you ask them what their number one metric they would look for in an S1, they say it is profitability per broker. It's essentially like how many agents you have and how much productivity are you squeezing out? And if you look, I'm not gonna name names because I'm not, but if you look across a spectrum at that one metric, the companies that trade at the lowest multiple in the public equity markets have the highest productivity per broker, which shouldn't necessarily make sense. So very good point, Thomas. Ryan Siminetti, same question, most over-hyped technology. So one thing I'm gonna say about valuation is it is in the eye of the beholder and perception is oftentimes reality. So we can't forget that, despite what the metrics say or don't say. I will say, and I agree with Thomas and I've seen this, you know, I'm a pretty active early stage investor myself personally. Not enough talk in this world about unit economics period. And so I think that that's something even for founders out there and teams, management teams, it's something that should always be in the conversation because scale without unit economic profitability is a lot of work for no reason at the end of the day. I would say if I had to pick one, I'd say like blockchain crypto and how fast that really has an impact on the real estate industry. I understand the technology clearly value in accelerating parts of the process from an authentication standpoint, but there's a lot more things I'd be thinking about investing in today that will have a much bigger disruption on the industry and transform the industry and probably make you a ton more money as an investor. Yeah, I would have to agree to that. We've been trying to disrupt real estate and title processes using the blockchain since 2013 and it still hasn't really happened yet. We have successfully transferred title on the blockchain but it was done as more of a novelty and it didn't really save anybody any time and it didn't really increase the productivity of the agents or the lenders or the title folks or the county clerks involved in that transaction. So I definitely agree with you. All right, Noah, same question, most overhypes. The most overhypes. I'd be tempted to probably say the utilization of blockchain technology outside of title again, but I don't wanna repeat what's already been said. From my perspective, I think the most overhype technology in the real estate space right now is one that we've actually relied upon for quite a long time, which is actually our real estate agents. I think they're very rapidly being displaced by some of the product tech that we've seen. I recently passed on investment for complicated valuation reasons, but they were similar to Latch except that their whole premise was that you could go on an app, look at a neighborhood and find an apartment and simply walk into it. And if you liked that apartment, you could lease it on your phone in seven minutes. It didn't matter if it was two in the morning or anything like that. There's no waiting on an agent, there was no communication and ultimately comps can be done by software. So it's hard to justify it now. Very interesting. Yeah, I agree. I saw that same company as well. Very interesting company started by Israeli gentlemen. Yeah, great founders. If you're aspiring venture capitalist out there, if you back people who are in the elite unit of the IDF, they're probably good at technology. So a little pro tip. That's a good time for an investment hack right there. We have one final question for the lightning round. Appreciate everyone's patience on this beautiful sunny day. We will start here with Noah. One person, sort of hero of yours in the real estate world can be living, can be dead. Who is that? Who's that North Star for you, whose career you admire? I'm gonna have to be pretty corny and think my dad obviously on this one. 50 years of industry experience and he's really made a way for himself. He started at his own father's accountant at 11 years old. I'm a bit slower to follow in the family footsteps but I'm starting to get there. But always composing yourself with integrity throughout a career of that length is really something to be admired. All right, same question, Ryan Simonetti. I'm gonna have to go with a good friend and mentor of mine who happens to be on our board as well, Mr. Scott Reckler, who I think is as innovative and entrepreneurial as a real estate leader, you will see. And I think has embraced technology and new business model thought and innovation, especially for a firm of that scale faster than probably anyone out there. And not to mention he's a great human that does a tremendous amount for the city and state that probably goes unnoticed and or underappreciated. Same question, Thomas Hennessy. All right, well, I'm originally from Chicago and I did at a point in time work for Sam Zell. And in terms of being an innovator and thought leader going against the mold. And really we were talking about, or at least I was, the bridge from private to public capital markets. And he's often viewed as a father of the reek. And so there's a lot of things to take note of throughout his career, his very long-term career. And the personality as well, I think it's certainly one to smile about when he's on webinars himself. So that's the name and I'm sticking to it. Thank you for that. Well, one cool thing about Sam Zell, every year he would produce an automaton and he would send it to 650 of his friends and investors and it was a functional piece of art that you would crank it up and it would tell a story about the real estate capital markets in that particular year. As some of you know, who've been to our office, PropTech Place in the garment district, we have a little mini real estate museum and my partner, Aaron Block, who's also from Chicago, has recently secured an entire collection of the automatons. We are gonna fix up some of them and when everybody's vaccinated and ready to dance, they will be on display over at PropTech Place on West 39th Street. For my answer, I'm gonna go ahead. That is awesome by the way. I know, come check it out. Maybe we'll lend them to, you know, convene at some point if you're nice to me, Ryan. I will answer mine, you know, we, everybody's talking about, you know, I wanna mention a couple trailblazing, one trailblazing woman in the real estate business who I have a lot of respect for, woman named Joanne Podell. Joanne is one of the top retail brokers in the world at Cushman and Wakefield. She has some of the biggest clients. She went into the business at a time when it was very, very challenging for women to break into the real estate industry, especially at a firm like Cushman. She was also the first person ever to do pedestrian counts. And she used to do pedestrian counts outside the retail locations by hand and all the other brokers thought she was completely insane. And now it would be considered completely insane to not do them. And I've actually invested a lot of money in technology that sort of automates that in a variety of different ways using, you know, cell phone tech and other things like that. So anyway, my answer for today, I rotate them is Joanne. She's inspiring real estate executives. So many, many thanks to our panelists today. Again, big thanks to everybody at Columbia GSAP, Rebecca, Erica, Patrice, Jessica as well. And thank you very much for tuning in today and enjoy the rest of your day.