 Hello and welcome everyone. Good morning. I'm Suranjana from the Viro commission and I'm in Bangalore the Viro commission and slum dwellers international are together hosting this event on impacting policies. We're here to talk about how grassroots movements are actually influencing and bringing about change in public planning policies programs and public decision making too often. I think the response we hear from people when they hear about grassroots initiatives is that they're just too small to be recalled, too local, we're too anecdotal. But despite all these disadvantages, we can see that grassroots organizations and their movements are making solid impacts based on the work they're doing on the ground. So today we have representatives from three global grassroots movements. We have we go, we have slum dwellers international and we have the viral commission represented by activists from these organizations and then we have also the policy side of the discussion from we have a special guest Augustine Haroy from the from adb and to take you through this morning's event we have a very special facilitator and it's my great privilege to have the opportunity to introduce her it's Corazon Solomon also called dinky dinky has not only a lifetime of activism behind her she's been someone who's trained hundreds of grassroots activists and community leaders in the Philippines but she's also had two terms as the secretary department of social welfare and development in the government of Philippines and during her term did a substantial amount of work to build bridges between government and grassroots so she's a very unique and special facilitator and we're very privileged to have her facilitating the discussion today at present she's the lead on social protection and community driven development at the International Center for excellence and governance so with that let me hand you over to dinky and I'll be back at the end to wrap up so welcome everyone. Thank you very much. And thank you to that very nice introduction. Welcome to everyone who has joined this session and we're going to have a very exciting session so but before we start, let us work go through some of the protocols of how we are going to use the zoom so they will be flashing that. First of all, this meeting is being recorded and parts of it will be available on why your commission and some of the dwellers international and IEDs website at a later date. If there are concerns that you may have in this being recorded. Please put that in the chat box and get in touch privately with lean morna lean morna and put it in the chat box. Now please do not share the link to join this meeting on social media we have taken security precautions against zoom bombing. And if you notice any such content, please notify lean morna via the chat function. Please also close all non essential applications in your device, such as Skype so that we can have a better connection. And please mute your microphone if you're not speaking. You can switch off your video if you are experiencing connection problems. And also please use the chat box for comments and questions we want to encourage more interaction. And if you face any technical issues, please notify lean morna via the chat function. We will be having a close caption when close captioning when our colleague from Indonesia will be speaking. So that means that you have to go to the bottom of your page of zoom and where it indicates more, there will be a thing called CC. So click on that so that the subtitles will show in your screen will be speaking in Bahasa Indonesia and that is where you will see the translation. Now before we begin, we would really like to know who we are and what we're about. So we will be using the Mentimeter as a gauge and the Mentimeter link is in the chat box already. So I don't see it yet. Please put in the Mentimeter link that people can go into for our volunteer tech so that everyone can do their link on the Mentimeter. The Mentimeter will be giving us a sense of what are the countries that represented here. And at the same time, we would want to know what type of organizations you belong to. So that can I get from the volunteers can I get the link in the chat box so people can go into the Mentimeter. So after selecting this quality. There it is. Okay, so there everyone, there is the Mentimeter link and you have to use if you don't have the, if you don't have the. You have to use the code 8-9-3-9-3-6-0. Again, you have to use the code of 8-9-3-9-3-6-0. So please go into this and which country are you joining from so please type in the country that you are joining from so that you will. You will see how many are being represented here and where we're all coming from. So then after that, we will be seeing the results of this. In a bit, we will be seeing this. So there you are. We are in different parts Myanmar, Netherlands, Kenya, India, Tanzania, Denmark, Germany, South Africa, Scotland, France, United States, Indonesia, Uganda. So that's quite a bit of a big Singapore. Did I miss out on anything Indonesia? Of course, UK, Denmark and Germany. So we are quite a big international group that are here. So shall we go to the next question for in a Mentimeter. So shall we go to the next question now tech support. Moving on. So what kind of organization do you represent? A national NGO, international NGO, grassroots based organization, research, policymaking, local government, private sector and others. So again, we will be looking at the results in a few minutes. There you have it. Many of us are from the international NGOs. Then second to it is grassroots and community based organization. And then the national NGOs are coming in next and we have one from a policy research organization and three from others, but a majority of us are coming from international NGOs and grassroots organization. And the last question. There are some somebody just texted that someone's from the national government. So we do have some other participants who are not NGOs and some are from policymaking. So moving on, let's go back now to the last question of the Mentimeter. Shall we flash that the Mentimeter question. Last, which is a question of what kind of movements do you belong to? Shall we flash the Mentimeter question on this? Okay, going in again. So there you go. Human rights, environment, grassroots, indigenous, urban poor, women's empowerment. What word do you belong and then submit and we'll see how many of us are coming from different movements in our country. So many of us are coming from our very involved in women in environment and then the next one is women empowerment, grassroots is coming in strong. Human rights and democracy, indigenous people, 5% of urban poor and others. The majority of us are part of environment movements here. So we come from a broad group of representation from different parts of the world. Many of us are NGOs, CSOs and in movements for social change. Many of us are working in the environment sector and in the grassroots sector. So we are now going to have a good conversation between and among us we have a good spread of participants, and we really do encourage you to please interact through the chat box and give your opinions as we hear the panel discuss. Today we're really going to talk about how does, as Orangela said in the beginning, the initiatives of people who are working on the ground, grassroots organizations, especially women led organizations on the communities are doing their responses to very basic needs that they have to address because it's their families and it's their communities that are affected. And in so doing, they know the limitation of doing it just within the community or within the towns that they work in. That they have used their organization and their capacity to influence policies and the policies that they need to influence are from subnational to national and into global policies that impact into their communities. And we will be hearing how they were able to influence these institutions at different levels and how that made an impact on the work that they are doing at the grassroots level. And I think it's very important for us to do this, because we all know how interconnected, we all are, and how policies decided at the national level at the big cities impact on rural communities and rural villages improvement for communities. And we have a very exciting panel because these are all people who have been working closely and extensively and deeply into these issues. So I'd like to start introducing our panel now. And we are very fortunate to have everyone as being able to connect given the challenges of connectivity. We have Violet Shibutsi. She is a grassroots women leader and founder of Shibuya Community Health Workers. Her background is caregiving, which through that role, she initiated the women land rights in Shibuya community health workers and work on community resilience. She has led community driven processes that position grassroots women as key actors in influencing policies on land, agriculture, and basic service delivery. So that's Violet. Next, we have Ibu Ronyatu. She is a grassroots leader from Indonesia affiliated with Yakun, an emergency unit, a member of the Choir Commission. She's actively involved in community financing and DRR activities, identifying disaster prone areas within the village, establishing evacuation routes, and updating community databases, especially to include vulnerable groups. As a grassroots leader, Ibu Ronyatu advocates for allocation of village development budget to address the needs of women and children. She will also be assisted by Agnes Maria or Mia, who will be supporting Ibu Ronyatu as a co-panelist. The next finalist is Nancy Noki. She is a social activist and grassroots leader of Mungaro Waonaji, a national federation of slum dwellers in Kenya. Nancy has supported communities to partner with government or slum upgrading projects, including the President setting Mokoro SPA project in Nairobi, building strong relationships between the stakeholders and assisting communities to build consensus on strategy, budgeting, planning, and project implementation. And the next speaker is Kabir Arora. Kabir Arora is the national coordinator of the Alliance of Indian Waste Speakers, a national network of waste speakers organizations in India. He is also involved with the mapping of waste speakers organizations in Asia for women in informal employment, for globalizing and organizing. We go. And the global allies of waste speakers. The next one is someone who has worked very closely with us. He is the senior climate change specialist for climate change adaptation of Asian Development Bank. He supports climate change adaptation related policies and investments of ADB and is involved in developing a new program on community resilience. So you see how rich and how interesting our panels are. And let's begin and start the sharing. I'd like to now start with Violet. And I think it's important to hear from Violet her experience in what has been the experience about grassroots movements and their ability to influence policy. How did you change the perception of government or other stakeholders towards grassroots leadership in community resilience? Over to you Violet. Thank you so much Digi and thank you everyone. It is my pleasure to be speaking in this important session. As Digi says, I come from an organization that is in best in the rural part of Kenya, which is called Shibuya Community Health Workers. And Shibuya Community Health Workers is a member of a global movement of grassroots women called Wairu Commission. I want to share our experience, how we began working as a collective in influencing policy and what prompted us to begin working in influencing policy or working to ensure government put policies in place that fit into the priorities that we care about. As grassroots women from rural communities, our main source of livelihood is farming. And farming was really impacted with climate change. And one of the negative implications was that our soil has completely been washed away. Land has been degraded, especially those of us who live along areas that are valleys or sloppy. Land has been degraded a lot. And as women, the production of food, the soil pH has really been compromised and production of food hasn't been going on well. Because of this, we began an initiative on soil rehabilitation and management. And we worked with a local college to train grassroots women to understand processes like mulching, to understand how to plant crops, barrier crops that ensure water does not flow. The soil is not washed away by Russian. We also have been having long spells of sun. And during this time equally, the land gets degraded when it's windy. So we were looking at the best way that we could advance our farming practices and manage our soil and be able to really practice sustainable agriculture, which includes acroforestry and many other things. When we began this initiative, we were really impacted because as grassroots women, we do not own land or we don't have rights to access land. Land inheritance takes forever to inherit and the processes are so long. At times also, the land that the families have is still very small. Even as you struggle for inheritance, it is not land that can be able to feed you and sustain the family livelihood as a farmer. So the option we had was land leasing. And land leasing has never been streamlined by the government of Kenya. The land leasing that appears in the constitutions is the big land leasing that big business people are involved in that lease land for like 100 years, like multinationals. But the small list that we do day to day to grow vegetable that we can sell for livelihood to grow food hasn't really been factored. So as grassroots women organization, we were able to start this discussion. We conducted a consultation meetings. First of all, we did a research with a team from a German that is called TMG, which comes from Berlin, to reveal issues around land. And especially show how land leasing would create an alternative for women and youth who cannot access land to access land for agriculture and the conflicts around land would be addressed. So this was a big program because land governance is a big issue and it's very sensitive when you begin talking about it. So we began with doing very strong community consultation meetings at village level to hear the perspective of community and the experience of people that have leased land, which in many times those who leased land, especially women who had bigger land and gave out their land to lease like pay school fees for their children, this land ended up being taken and scrapped from them. And those women who went to lease land as Lisa saw that they would plant things. Sometimes when they start improving this land, they would be thrown out of the land. So equally the leasing and the Lisa were all very vulnerable in this condition. So we got a lot of support from this and we have been able to drive this process further until we have a very good guideline that we call community driven land lease guideline, which is being implemented in nine wards in Kaka Mega. We have expanded with this land lease guideline to Homa Bay and we have actually really seen how women are involved in land leasing and how many women are doing soil rehabilitation and are going through trainings and youth and how production and food security has increased in homes. But because of this, we said this is not enough. We must ensure we push this to become a legal framework. So during this time that as from March, we started convening online meetings with our county government in Kaka Mega and Homa Bay to discuss how to make the community driven land lease guideline to become a legal framework. We have received a lot of acceptance and I want to tell this conference that this is the first time in our history that the community is coming up with their own policy that they are pushing the government to be able to put as a legal framework that is going to work for the community. We are doing public hearing, which we are leading. We have shared roles. The legislatures from the county assembly are involved in the process. We are all speaking about this land lease guidelines. We produce a documentary and the governor himself is speaking strongly to say this document when it becomes a legal framework, it is going to save the situation and improve agricultural productivity. So that's how far we are. But because of also this bargaining and collective working as grasswomen, we have also participated strongly in putting our priorities in soil conservation and policy that was developed in Kaka Mega, which was being led by GIZ. We participated and this actually really made us to ensure the priorities in soil rehabilitation also focus on things grasswomen care about. We have also participated in influencing other policies, policies on inheritance showing gaps in policies. And now I would actually say the grasswomen are really agents in policy and very much involved in policy than any other time. We have Zoom calls every time speaking about this policy. We didn't even go to sleep during the COVID time. We were all active and we would call for a meeting and we have 30 grasswomen turning up to speak to the government. We also now are pushing for another thing which is called a governor's day with farmers. The grasswomen have initiated this process, which on this day that will be placed on every calendar year, the grasswomen will be small scale farmers will be accessing the governor himself and all policy makers. Everything will stop in the county that is just a day for the county government to listen to the grasswomen, which is very, very good. And we have organized how we want it to look like how we want participation from the bottom, how we will organize ourselves to ensure the themes that we are going to speak on the governor's day is a theme that comes from the bottom, the real small scale farmers on the ground. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Violet. I can see that you have really been able to move from initiatives on the ground impacting on national policy and also district policies. Now we are going to listen to Ibu Runyatun and Tumiya. Tell us about the work that you do about with grass roots women, leaders in your community that have done influence in village plans and budgets to address the priorities on climate and disaster resilience. Ibu Runyatun. Hello, my name is Runyatun from the village of Gedang-Sari village, I am a secretary of the village of Mantiri-Tanggu. In the village, there are several types of grass roots. Among them are bansir, longsore soil, bluish-white wind, and kakeringan. At first, we tried to raise the activities of the grass roots through the support of the farmers. However, the situation was very difficult. So we developed a variety of grass roots. The people around us were able to buy grass roots in our village in a way that we could be seen or imagined in the end of the month. Then we learned from other women in the field of grass roots. We started to grow the grass roots. From the field of grass roots, the women in our village, even though they are from another village, they have additional income and the environment is also cleaner and healthier. Also, without the help of the farmers, they can reduce the risk of bansir and longsore soil. In 2017, bansir and longsore soil covered the access of the road to the village or to the disaster. Our community supports the support of the farmers through the public sector, as long as the village is covered or for a few days. Our community also joins in the work of the road cleaners that are covered in longsore. Since then, the government of the village has started to pay attention to our community activities. We also get parts of the forest to reduce the risk of bansir, and also get in the planning of hard farming, and also get in the planning of hard farming in the village. The government of the village agrees with our community activities, and our activities are beneficial for the general public, not only for the community, but also for the villagers. We ask the villagers to follow other activities, and get a presentation. Our community also gets an invitation to follow the Muslims of Bangladesh, or the Muslim of Bangladesh, and can provide assistance or assistance to the village's location, as a member of the women's group, the PKK, the Pusyandu, or the Paut and other assistance. We make a proposal of assistance in the PKK, in the Pusyawah village of Bangladesh. One of the assistance that we receive as a member of the women's group is an additional aid for the villagers, and the villagers' room to sell tobacco. We also open the tobacco shop in the village's location. The discussion in the meeting is not always clear, and not all of the assistance that we receive. However, we assure the government of the village that our activities are beneficial, not only for the villagers, but also for the villagers. Even though we were invited to meet the villagers, but we only listened to the small food, snacks, or food, now we can join the meeting and share our needs. The government of the village has given new meaning to our activities in the process of decision-making or the management of the village. From our involvement in many activities, villages, and communities, we now have the opportunity and the access to do the same work with many others, such as the LSM, the university, the religious community, and the private sector. Besides managing the community resilience fund to deal with the economic loss due to disaster and climate change, the women group were able to influence the decision-making process within their respective areas. Since 2015 and 2020, YAKU members in the unit has assisted about 59 women groups for community resilience fund initiatives. Each group received about $300 to $470 allowing them to initiate the resilience strategies at their respective sub-villages or villages. They started with conducted risk mapping and analysis the loss and strategies to deal with their condition due to disaster and climate change, which then linked their strategies to local government's policy and programs. Although not all of the groups have progressed well and are dealing with challenges, about 49 have sustainable activities developed from their community resilience fund initiatives and currently able to access supports and programs from governments in fillers up to district levels through various district government offices and the mixed faith-based organizations, NGOs and private sectors. The supports that they have received varied from cash or capital fund or livelihood capacity building and in kind, such as seats, assistive devices, place or rooms, and others. Departed from their beneficial initiatives, many grassroots women then being involved and invited to decision-making process, such as in the sub-village and village level for village development programs planning. The initiatives by grassroots women groups and their engagement with local government together influence or change the way the local government sees grassroots women and update their small community financing form of activities could benefit larger communities and contribute to village development. Thank you. Thank you, Mia. Thank you. You could see the wide range of work that you'll be doing from disaster response, humanitarian and influencing the budget and then networking with other groups and then spreading this out to other communities to learn from your experience. Now we would like to call on Nancy Nujoki and Nancy, can you tell us how are you able to mobilize or organize the community and get the actions going? What kind of policy influence did you succeed to do and what was the impact of this policy change? Nancy? Thank you very much. I'm Nancy Nujoki from Nairobi, Kenya. I'm a member of the SDI Federation. So as communities in Kenya, we've been mobilizing communities for the last 20 years, but you have one example in Mokuru where we've been mobilizing the communities for the last 10 years. This is an area which suffers from very many threats, especially the healthcare system is like broken down. We also have no sewer lines, no water. And one of the biggest threats is the flooding. When it rains in Mokuru, it's practically impossible. You cannot go anywhere. The schools get submerged. You see the school gets submerged. The rivers sweep away houses. We have even cases of deaths. So as the Kenyan Federation, we've been doing mobilizing and organizing communities to form savings groups. When they form savings groups, this becomes a tool for them to be advocating for their issues. So also in these savings groups, we help the communities to sit down, look in what issues are affecting them and come up with solutions, or even advocate to them, duty bearers to help them deal with the solution. So in Mokuru, we collected community-led data. This data, we did it like in two or three before. We started the data two or three. We did it again. We updated the data also in two or five. Then we used this data to highlight the challenges and took this data to the Nairobi County government. So it was a process, a big process, convincing them, going to the meetings with them, going to the meetings at seven o'clock. By that time, they were saying, you have to go to the meetings early if you are late. You miss that day. Again, you go for another day. You book an appointment, go for a meeting. So luckily in 2017, the county government was able to gazette the Mokuru area as a special planning area. So when they gazette an area as a special planning area, this gives the community the space. The space and the platform to come out with plans. These plans will influence the development of the area. So as a federation, we were given a key component in the process. So we are the ones who are coordinating, coordinating other organizations, coordinating the county government, and also continuing to mobilize the communities so as we can be able to come up with a plan, an integrated development plan for the area. So as the Kenyan Alliance, we see this has been a big plus because like for now, the Kenyan Alliance is seen as a key partner in the SPA development. We've also been asked to help in the processes of helping the other area which has been declared as a special planning area, which is Kibira, to help them in organizing and also help them with coming up with how we will help, how we will get the other organization which work in Kibira to help that area be able to make up their own integrated plan. So as for now, the Kenyan Alliance is seen as a key stakeholders. Every time we go to the meetings with the county government to talk about issues SPA, they will always refer to the alliance and the strengths we've had in Mokuru and want to go ahead from that. They want to make it as a benchmarking. We've done this in Mokuru, so we want Mungano to help us do other special planning areas. So I see as communities we have the power, we have the power to influence policy and it's only to be given space and be given more capacities so that we can get that inside us and help develop our areas. So I would also propose that even in this other local government that the community voice is listened to. And we are made the key stakeholders in any small development because like I see for Mokuru now, even when the county wants to do additional data, they will use our communities to do the data. So this has been a big plus for the SDI Kenya Federation. Thank you. Thank you very much, Nancy. And for the next speaker, it will be Kabir. And please tell us your experience and how you were able to influence policies in addressing solid waste management issues and how you were able to do this from the ground level. Kabir. So I'll start. So I'm Alliance of Indian Waste Pickers. It's a national network of waste pickers organizations across India and we're also part of the Global Alliance of Waste Pickers. I'm going to get into the question of how the policy work was amplified by the work on the ground. So there were a few things which I don't know how many people know about it. In 2016, the Union Government of India came up with Solid Waste Management Rules. And one of the greatest achievement or one of the greatest road map, it was a road map for waste pickers integration. So it was a form of achievement for all of us. And defined waste pickers rights, they have right to pick waste. They have right to identity as a worker. They have right to do organizing work. They have right to do skill upgradation, right to representation and entitlement of credit. And this sort of, these rights were incorporated in SWM rules. And that happened because there was, that happened because there were some other things which, which were done on the ground. So let me get back to, in 1992 or 1993, there was a first trade union of waste pickers, which was, which came in existence in Pune. And, and they started organizing waste pickers in Pune specifically. Later that waste pickers union became a trade union became a cooperative of waste pickers in 2008. And then similarly, something happened in Bangalore where waste pickers were organizing themselves since 2010. And we had dry waste collection centers, given to the waste pickers by the municipal authorities. And they've been engaged in, in managing that in Mumbai, where waste pickers organized themselves and started working in the composting services, composting organic waste management services. And these three places had models of integration. And waste picking is, is an occupation where one can upgrade the occupation and get better in terms of start working, start working in better and hygienic and safe and healthy conditions. Plus one can also complement the recycling systems, which are ongoing in the cities. So we, and there are around 3 million waste pickers across India. And this is, these are just different estimates provided by different organizations. Some say that there are 2%, 2% of the urban population is engaged in waste picking and informal recycling industry. So if you look at these numbers, there is a significantly large population, which is working in waste picking and recycling. Now what happened with these organizations Pune, one in Pune, one in Bangalore and one in Mumbai, you had a complete shift in how a model showcasing everyone that waste pickers can be integrated. They're a part of the system. They can better the waste management services. And to our good luck. We also the union minister of environment and forest and climate change at that time was Mr. Prakash Jabrakal. And he was also from Pune. So he was aware of what was going on in terms of waste pickers organizing. I'm sorry, just. Yeah, so there was some level of waste pickers organizing work, which was going on and sorry. So waste pickers organizing work was going on. And then we had models of input integration to showcase. And then the union ministry on its part invited waste pickers organization. Waste pickers organizations across India to, to be a part of the committee and suggest some changes in the rules. And then comes 2016 as the rule. So you have three models which showcased how waste pickers can be integrated in the process. You had significant changes in the informal recycling industry. You have cities doing a little better being, are a little cleaner and their cities also have a lot citizens engagement and all these three cities. And it was reflected in the SDW rules 2016, which sort of you have, we had created a cycle. Now what happened with after 2016 rules came all the municipal corporations were mandated to do the work which Pune, Bangalore and Mumbai have done. They have to show similar waste pickers integration process. There was a whole mandate. There are rights of waste pickers. There is a whole program for the scale training and skill optimization of waste pickers that was outlined. And there are some factors. There was another factor which played an important role was that the organization, these three major organizations and some smaller organizations were working across India came together and set up a network which helped in bringing learning exchange within the system as well as, as well as influencing the policy at national level collectively and not individual organizations taking the, doing the advocacy work. So these were some of the things which happened and then it helped us to amplify our work. Now last year we got a chance from the National Institute of Urban Affairs. It's a union ministry of urban affairs think tank to showcase these models of integration to more than 1500 municipal officers across India and tell them that how this process has been done. So the, and the waste pickers spoke directly to the municipal officials and said that this is what we have done in our cities. This is what we expect. And some of the waste pickers from those cities where these workshops were held also participated in and shared their own stories. So that was what, what our work on policy and grassroots was. Thank you. Thank you for beer. You can see how three initiatives in different parts of India had are now slowly moving into influence, national policy. And I think very important recognizing the rights of what usually is part of the informal sector, which are waste speakers being integrated into the formal sector. Now I think it's really interesting. We've had all our panelists speak. And at this point, I just want to call your attention that we have been able to really get discussion going in the chat box. And there are many questions that have been directed to our panelists and we will get into that after I call on our other guests who can bring us into a more regional perspective of how policy impacts, how grassroots initiatives impacts the policies at the regional multilateral institutions. I think we've heard how important it is to be able to first really start from the perspective of the communities, perspective of the grassroots people, the families, the women, who are actually feeling and are experiencing the issues. And from out of there, they will develop solutions that will be responsive to the specific problem that they face. We've heard that in all four experiences. And what is important, I think that they were able to move from organizing at the level of the village, at the level of the communities, the urban communities, making it into a network. A network of community people acting together to ensure that what they saw as solutions at the level of the village or network of villages be institutionalized at the level of district and or province and or national government. And we've seen that the group of violators has been able to do this on the land leasing situation, the situation of Ibu Runyatun influencing the budgets and then teaching what I think is important is influencing the budget at the level of the village, but then sharing that with so many other villages and so many other communities, which then had an impact for a government to start looking and recognizing that this is something that we should, you know, support. I think that's one lesson that when you do policy advocacy, obviously there is a lot of presentation of proposals, but when they see it on the ground, as they see it also with the experience of Nancy and Kabir, when the government people begin to see it's working, it's actually providing a solution to an age old problem, so to speak, that they begin to listen. So let's now listen to our friend from ADB and I think we'd like to begin the discussion with Argo by asking him, based on what you've heard from the panel, how can such practice be taken forward from a multilateral development bank perspective? I mean, how can grassroots movements impact policies? You have to work with national governments. How do you see what we've heard moving from this experience of influencing governments and then how will that work in terms of impacting policies of a multilateral development bank perspective? Argo. Thank you Denki and thanks a lot for having us on the panel and it was great to hear from colleagues from Kenya, India, Indonesia. I think it's, I will give an example of how it's happened with ADB in the climate space of ADB. I think working with grassroots organizations have helped us understand or recognize two things. One is what thought of actions or investments we need to do more and how differently those investments should be approached. And let me give an example. So we heard from Ibu Ronyatun in Indonesia's case. She talked about essentially two factors which enabled her to advance the resilience actions and grounds. One was of course we heard about the community resilience fund, which enabled them to demonstrate solutions and ultimately get buy-in from local governments. Other side we also heard about the participating process within government which allowed them to make a space for them to participate and hopefully make a change. So from a strictly from a bank's perspective, if I try to look at these two enabling factors, one is this community resilience fund and the participatory planning process, budgeting process. And the question is I need to go back and understand what kind of investments of ADB could potentially support similar solutions. So in the context of community resilience funds to understand do we have investments which allows resources to go in the hands of the communities in a more flexible manner and they can decide how to spend the resources. And Vicky, as you know very well, there are investments like community-driven development processes which allows investment to go in the hands of the poor and communities. Now, so traditionally we do a lot of CDD work but not maybe in the context of climate and disaster resilience. So working with the grassroots helps us understand that perhaps we need to do more of such investments so that ultimately the benefits are reaching where it should be. Similarly, in the context of participatory planning and budgeting, I think it also makes us realize that we do a lot of investments with national governments to improve their decentralization processes which allows for the right kind of space at the local level for local stakeholders to participate. But typically these investments again don't necessarily look at resilience context but looking at this solution for Indonesia, I think it's a great opportunity for us to see how our investments in decentralization can focus on resilience building and try to create a space, enabling space for the communities to work closely with the local governments and to make their needs felt. So for us, I think these lessons from grassroots organizations helps us to identify what type of investments can be done which in many ways is an opportunity for us. So I think it's an important thing for us to engage in this process and learn from it. Secondly, if I go back to the context what Violet was saying and congratulations Violet for the great work and getting policy in the look at these issues, I think increasingly we realize that issues on land tenure and housing tenure on issues on potentially informality, especially in urban areas, on migration issues, you know, we need to recognize these issues are front in the climate policy discussion with governments. We cannot say these issues are development concerns only because I think this blur of development in climate is just, we need to get rid of that thing and start talking about these issues in climate policies, in plans, in legislations so that ultimately, you know, these underlying drivers of vulnerability are addressed as a part and parcel of climate actions and this is only how we can lead to real transformation or change on the ground. So just to sum up, for us, this experience of working with grassroots organizations, we see very much as an opportunity to find the right kind of investments which can help our client governments. Thank you. So I think you're on mute. Yes, yes, sorry. Thank you, Argo. I have a follow up question to that, which actually also had been asked. So how will it be built a partnership with grassroots organization? Will a small grant facility, for example, be a way to go or what are the thoughts of ADB now in strengthening partnerships with grassroots organization? Sure, thank you. Maybe I can, since it's a discussion, maybe I can talk a little bit about how our relationship with Wairo Commission has evolved in the last seven or eight years. I mean, that conference tried to explain, answer your question. So we started working with Wairo Commission about, I think, seven years back, where we did start with a small project, one in Indonesia with Wairo colleagues and one in Philippines with Dan Pan, heard your question yesterday in the other panel. But through that small project, I think what was innovative was we didn't define what the project should do. We only said that we want a project focusing on resilience building at the local level. It was Dan Pan and Wairo with Wairo Commission. They defined what the scope of the project could be. And we implemented the project for last, for two years. And the idea was to learn about the solutions but also about the approaches which grassroots organizations are taking to work closely with local governments to move the agenda forward. And as I said, those approaches are very important because they can't inform the way our investments are designed. I know it very well from your work in government also. So this continued, this started our mission. But then even after that particular small project was over, we continued to work with them on this topic. And I would say more as a knowledge partner. I think this is very important because we heard in the opening panel of CBA Dr. Moussa talk about the tacit knowledge which communities have. And I think from our side in the climate space, working with Wairo Commission has helped us get access to that tacit knowledge of what's working on the ground, what's not working and how we can jointly try to improve the system. So that knowledge which Wairo Commission plays needs to be acknowledged and needs to be, I think from our point of view, it's a very important role. And lastly so this relationship has been building and I think for the last couple of years we have reached a stage where we are trying to co-create or co-develop a larger program along with other partners like IID which looks at these issues and community resilience but not just with the focus of to do more investments but to do the right kind of investments which can hopefully improve the systems within the government which is our clients to do more such actions on ground. So this has been a process, an evolving process but I think over the years there's certain amount of trust has been built. I see a lot of questions in the chat box on trust. I think it's also important to understand the trust between let's say social movements like Wairo Commission and an MDM multilevel development bank like us and how that can be strengthened it can only be spending in one single project it has to be spending over years to various type of activities where it's kind of same biotech relationship and I think we are very happy that it has evolved this taking this form now and we look forward to working with them and their constituencies in taking the climate action agenda forward. Thank you. Thank you Argo. I think that's very interesting and very true as you said getting the inputs and getting the voices and getting ideas of solutions coming out of grassroots movements organizations, community-based organizations is really the more responsive and effective and efficient use of funds I think. Having come from government it was really important I think for us now I'm speaking as someone who used to be with government. When we were designing what would then be a good poverty eradication program in my first think as the minister for social development in the Philippines. We really looked at the experience of community-driven development because the Philippines as in most countries in the region as you know Argo there is quite a rich experience of organizing at the level of the grassroots done by civil society organizations done by governments themselves and that is true for the Philippines so was that was important at least for someone who believed in community driven development and people's participation was to convince my colleagues in cabinet that two things that they have not seen or think is possible that people can decide and be able to actually craft solutions and hold the money and the money will be spent well the fiduciary responsibility was a big debate that I had to go through because for those who may not be familiar in community driven development, money is actually given to village committees and our friends from Indonesia know this very well because they have expanded this program and was in fact the basis of the village law that is existing today but it really is about having the trust that the people know best how to do it and you have to provide the capacity to be able to do the reporting the fiduciary documentation that government audits and bank audits know that's the capacity building that we had to do but the important thing is that to this day all of what we have supported or invested as you have said on community driven programs and especially the infrastructure that they build are all still standing up because it proves that it is the people who have chosen the project that they know will solve their problem it is important that they know that they will be the ones who use it so they will not cheat themselves they will not buy substandard materials they will make sure that the buildings are all right because it's their children it's them who's going to use it so I think the experience is saying that government can be convinced as long as there are allies inside who understand this perspective by the very action that they see on the and that was proven by the experience in Indonesia all four experiences when they saw that people were benefitting and really supporting it there were government people who began to see that this is important so I think at this point this is important to listen to the voices get them participating and making sure that they are not just consulted and then you go ahead and do what you need to do I mean the government and the multilateral institutions their input must be part of the plan and the implementation and the feedback on how the implementation is being done so that we know accountabilities are clear and in a transparent manner now I think we're really getting a lot of questions so I'd like to move into that right now so aware of the time and hoping that all questions can be answered so I'll start with the first question that we've gotten it's for Violet what are you doing as you wait for policy making process for women to be able to lease land for food production and without them being thrown out before the end of the lease term in other words what are the measures before it becomes a big a real policy now what are the measures that you are taking to help them as that process is being done Violet thank you so much Digi related to that yes I can hear you but there's another related question how are you handing women's rights to own or inherit land in Kenya thank you so much I'll start with the first one on the first one I wanted to say that the reason why we were convinced that we can now take these land lease guidelines to become a legal framework is because they were already working so already the land lease guidelines are on the ground really working and our our chiefs our chiefs are using them the community has accepted them because it was developed by their own community we are just calling for it to be recognized as a policy the value for land has been collected the tool explains how to manage conflicts it has been endorsed by all stakeholders we have sensitized and no one is leasing land without using this land lease guideline tool that's why we said if we are here already and we are seeing the adoption because we have been checking the adoption a strong monitoring team that is checking adoption checking how conflicts have reduced checking the number of encourage being push it to the next taken care of on the other one on land inheritance this is where we began and you remember in my presentation I said as much as it's a very good way because we want to ensure that the constitution talks about the wife being the next of kin of the husband so she has a right to on land even if the marriage separates they should actually be sharing land we have been training communities on this because it's already provided in the constitution we have been holding dialogues with the chiefs to show where the gaps are I'm so sorry it's okay no problem and you know the house has all characters so so what I want to say is this is where we began that has been also been addressed we have looked at the traditional information our guidance that gives women right to land which all are very good both the cultural and the law are very good but they were just not being implemented so on that one we are reinforcing an implementation we are supporting cases of disinheritance now we are working with African women the development fund they gave us a grant to support our women land link in Africa and we are advancing the rights of women on land and sharing tools and practice so that's how we are addressing that and we are already seeing changes there thank you thank you Violet the next question I'd like to have been posed to Iguro Nyaton and Mia what would be your advice to other organized communities seeking to have similar influence and maybe you can also respond to the question that's presented what measures do you have in place to have grassroots women to trust you to work with them what advice can you give on building trust especially when the initiative is still new and the women have no idea of the good intentions Ibu Ronyaton and Mia please Laka Laka what I did to strengthen our relationship with the government that is to show that there are a number of benefits the first, the second is to influence the daily life and to support the women in the government or the mother of the village head and the mother of the support in the village so I will translate for Ronyaton so the measures that we take in order to organize the women groups so that they will be recognized by the government and again support is for example one is the women group first must show who they are and what they can do for the community the activity should be proven that it is benefit not only for the members but in wider scale to all communities in the village or in the communities so we must prove that the activities provide benefit in larger scale than only in their own member of the group and the second is the activities that is planned or conducted should be accessible and affordable and also eligible so it close to the needs of the surrounding communities therefore the surrounding communities can take parts in the activities as well and get benefits from them and also the third it is good also to to have networks or to invite the women also that sits at the village government or at the decision making circle as the members or as the partners so that we can learn from them and understand the process in the decision making and the access how to get involved in the decision making thank you thank you I think it's important to hear Nancy your experience too because this question for all what enables the women to participate in the policy making processes and what were the challenges that you have to face while organizing the women groups like how did you get to mobilize them and what were the challenges that you faced if organizing them Nancy is Nancy still with us yeah she's there okay can you hear us Nancy as we wait for Nancy to get connected can I ask Kabir to share the experience too of how did you get well not just I guess women but the way speakers to be mobilized and to organize themselves as in terms of building trust with those who initiated the process how do you build the connection and get organized I think it's important the gender component is very essential in the process the role of women in organizing process if one studies the informal workers unions in India self-employed women's association was one of the pioneer and probably the first ones and that's where they were also the ones who started organizing women's and similarly if you look at the story of which is trade union and if you look at the percentage of number of participants you will find the percentage of women in the trade union will be 70 to 80 percent so the organizing effort was if you look at specifically the majority of women is led by women but that is not the reflection of what is going on on the ground the women are not in majority majority of women are not majority of waste pickers are not women if the percentages are in bigger cities the majority of waste pickers are men in the smaller cities the majority of waste pickers are women so you have these gender dynamics and gender distribution but the organizing effort and that sort of build a broader coordination and waste pickers are at the lowest end of the pyramid if you look at again look at the gender the upper chains of waste picking are masculine all men all the whole of recycling chain is men so what these women did was organizing themselves and then one using their organized strength as bargaining chip against the masculine power in the upper chain vis-a-vis they also used it to build alliances because when two men sit together they probably may not agree on making a trade union but two women did do that and they have trade unions which are as big as the population of many countries in Europe so if you look closely they then build the alliances with the masculine part of the supply chain on their own terms and with the collective bargaining skills and that is very essential to learn these dynamics of the supply chains within waste picking as well as the other section so that's important to focus on and that helped us to build alliances and this was a very theoretical way of explaining it but this is what happened in past few years Thank you Kabir I really see that it's natural for the alliance building to come from women based on what we've heard so far Nancy is back so Nancy can you there is a question to the panelists about how you build trust from people from women especially who have not heard about the effort and are just being reached out to and being encouraged to join the action So as the grassroots women basically start small we start with the little savings groups in the community so as the Mungano we started with tensioning so when we start small and also put in place the structures which will make sure that no resources from the communities are lost so you put in the right you have continuous training on leadership training on savings on group everything about the group structures so when you start small in the settlements you grow as you grow the community will have gained trust in you and that is what we've been doing as the federation start with settlement based savings group start engaging from the settlements as you grow up so you have one settlement you network with different settlements from different settlements you network at a regional level so after being in a regional level so you network at a county level so you have gained trust from the settlement to the county then you go national to the country then you can expand internationally so you start small and putting the right structures from the little as from the saving group going upward so that's what has made the Mulgano federation gain trust from the community so even when we start doing projects we still do the same start from the settlement level growing bigger so I think it's important thank you Nancy we can see three things seems to be the common theme women tend to be more able to build alliances it comes more naturally second it is important to acknowledge because they experience the problems or issues more intensely in most patriarchal societies that we all have they end up with having to find the solution and I think this is the reason immediately step up and take the lead because when they take the lead they're able to make sure that the benefits go to a larger population but it is really more along the common good frame that they operate from and we find that very interestingly enough in our own experience when money comes into the project more often than not we want to give it to women as people who will manage the finances because the chances of it being misused is a lot smaller if not at all because they can manage the money very well and the usual fear that if it is given to men that it will be used for other purposes other than for the project now I think we can take in two more questions yeah one or two more questions I think there's a lot of questions that's being asked to Argo in ADB would ADB be interested in supporting this type of grassroots initiatives through grant facilities it's really exciting to hear how seriously ADB climate team are engaging with these issues do you think you are getting traction on these ideas with all parts of ADB and other multilateral projects what do you think what do you think what do you think what do you think Argo yeah thank you Dinky I think as my other panelists said it's a process for everybody and I wouldn't try to oversell even with an ADB it's a process and what has happened is maybe because of this close relationship we have four colleagues who work on social development on gender on governance on rural development and try to see how their investments their processes can't look at these issues so this has helped us move beyond looking at infrastructure social and institutional aspect which are critical for building resilience so I think this is a great move it's a slow process but I think we see that happening more in the banks and in that context we have been as I mentioned developing this program of community resilience and I don't believe that all solution is about giving money it's not the only solution I think we heard from Sheila in the opening panel where she talked about typically MDBs talk about very big picture and actions happening on the ground level but how do we make that meet together so for us I think it's important to realize that even as an institution if we cannot give direct direct money to the poor and other communities can we help improve the system the channel in which resources can flow when I say resources I don't mean only financial resources but also knowledge around learning such resources can flow and this is the focus of the new program which we are developing is how can we help our client governments improve their system, their capacity so that the right kind of targeting happens, the right kind of partnership happens at the ground level right kind of money flows to the local level also so I think it's much more complicated than just addressing through financial resources and it requires very much a kind of whole of government, whole of community approach to whole of society approach towards it and I think it's a slow step it'll take time but we are learning from the process and hopefully we'll get somewhere together I also want to highlight one thing over here thinking at least from our experience even financial institutions funding partners, bilingual donors, philanthropists people are comfortable when they see like-minded institutions working together and co-creating programs I don't know if they are very used to seeing different types of institutions with a common objective coming together to co-creating co-developed programs and I think that needs to happen more because if you don't get different types of institutions together you will not be able to address all kind of solutions is very much required from a climate action point of view so I think it's very much needed that everybody starts working across the board and the different kind of partners to push his agenda, thank you Thank you Argo and just building on that I think getting institutions to work together again in the recent experience I had with government the Asia Development Bank and World Bank work together with our government then with us in developing and improving community-driven development and conditional cash transfer and it was not just the fund investment that was very important as you pointed out it was also developing a targeting system that really reached the marginalized and the vulnerable trying to minimize if not eliminate elite capture and making sure that we're able to really reach those who needed most and that was a very important process and in that process we were involving the communities that were being asked to give their information and data by way of a community assembly that validates the data on the targeting measure so I think that's very important but that was I will tell you as the minister then it was not that easy to get the two banks to work together and have a common frame I mean you would think that that would be easy but as you said it's really a slow process I think for a last question many people continue to ask so how do you measure this because to be able to convince those who hold the resources that this is well monitored and there is a lot of measurements and indicators that we use to make sure that the advocacy does impact positively to communities I think the monitoring and evaluation and learning is always a question that many of the funding agencies ask I mean you know that's very nice you're doing this thing but how does it really impact how do you know that there is an impact so maybe can I ask Violet to explain how you measure this your success or your progress in the work that you're doing in terms of the advocacy to impact national policies Violet did she drop out no she's still there I'm sorry Newt I'm there I'm sorry go ahead Violet so I had talked about how thank you I had talked about how we monitor progress first of all we have developed a tool with TMG German that works from Berlin and this tool that we have developed is a tool that we used to measure uptake on how many people are leasing land we have an application form that the parties that are leasing land feel using the guidelines that we have developed so we use these forms that remain in the office of the assistant chief to measure uptake we also follow father to listen to the changing trend like how many girls and youth generally are now participating in agricultural activities because as they lease land we also take names and age and we take age and gender of the people that are leasing land and then we also measure the number of assistant chiefs because when it began it was a volunteer so it was like you are not forced to adopt it in your sub location but here we have a solution but now every assistant chief comes asking come and sensitize my community and the elders in my village so that we can start using the land lease so we also measure the number of assistant chief village elders that are supporting the process and we measure how the changes in things like production productivity right now we have a GPS system that we are using to track the amount of land that has leased and the amount of land that is being rehabilitated because you actually need to show people how this is translating to soil rehabilitation and management which is a negative implication of climate change how this is really addressing the issue so now we are putting in a courage and at the end of every year we are able to say this is the amount of land that classes women and youth were able to rehabilitate because of land leasing so that's how we measure the uptake thank you Violet so as we can see there are very clear indicators and there are systems that are put in place by the grassroots women organizations by the voice speakers I mean in other words the community based organizations and the alliances that they organized do measure their work because in the end it means solutions at the very ground level it's not monitoring and evaluation and learning for the funders or for other institutions supporting them they're doing that because it's important for them to know if they're nearing the solution or not because the solution that they're working on is alive in that issue for them so it is important for them to monitor if they're doing progress or not if putting in all that effort taking risks for some of them in other geographies where these kinds of work are not readily accepted it is important for them if they are progressing so I think when people are asking do you know if there is progress do you know how do you monitor how do you do such a fluffy advocacy role as some people would think there are measurements being done and very concrete indicators of whether the organization the community based efforts are moving forward so we would like to thank you know if yes any addition yes I am just remembering something because in the land lease guideline that we want to make a framework one of the biggest issues that came was that men would lease land in a male-headed household the entire land and not leave even a small portion for the family to grow food and this was really affecting women because women want land for food men want land for cash crop so they lease land they plant sugarcane especially sugarcane a lot here so the family does not have land so right now even if these men use the land lease guideline we still have to go back in our measuring to know are they following the guideline to the latter to ensure that okay they are using the application form but if they are leasing for cash crop we follow to ensure they have left land as we have agreed at least a third of the land is left to the family food we have to confirm that so those are some of the things we are measuring because you may just measure the uptake uptake and be happy but in reality it is a change that you wanted to see women and youth accessing land for agricultural business and household improvement is not happening so we really care about these things yes thank you I know that I said that would be the last question but I just saw a last question here which I think is important to get the view of our goal how can we expect ADB to play a role in systems change agenda towards building community resilience what role can we expect ADB to play very quickly sorry Aruguba I think it's an important question to ask a multilateral institution in this kind of form thanks Dinky and thanks for the question Monisha I mean we have to recognize ADB is only one small organization right but I think what is important is that how in our day to day interaction with client governments and this is interaction beyond specific investments we try to recognize these issues and where necessary dialogue with the government to give them the evidence that things at the ground level are working as I said I mean systems change is a very big issue as the question itself says so there is no single solution for it it differs from country to country different countries governments, countries, desensitization processes where currently there is no single investment we can achieve all this and it's a long process where from our side we need to continue working with the client governments and help them improve the systems and capacity with the intention of ultimately those systems will benefit the ones who need the most so I see that that's the only way to go moving forward thank you thank you Argo I think we've had a very rich exchange and very of course interesting and very thought provoking discussion on how we move forward on making sure that the initiatives on the ground done by grassroots organizations we've seen how they have been able to impact policy while it is still a continuing struggle while it is still a lot of negotiations and a lot of movement and mobilization there are already victories in place and I think the experience that has been shown by Violet by Nancy, Ibu Runiatun and Mia and Kabir is a testimony to that at this point what I'd like to invite everyone thank you for all of the rich information this is again going to be put together by SDI and the Wairo Commission for all of us to reflect upon after this conference but at this time there's a Mentimeter that will come out and the Mentimeter will ask us what are your takeaways from this session what did you learn from this session so can we have that Mentimeter there it's again in the chat box so just write key takeaways from the session we can have about 250 characters and I think it would be good if you could tell us what really struck you and we will be trying to put together these answers and we will be looking at give it the Mentitor too so land rights are crucial to resilience building of the poor experience from the ground voices from the grassroots start small and out in place structures to build influence women led organizations can lead the changes needed towards more resilience grassroots women are drivers of change at the community level these are some of the responses that have come out voices from the ground is vital start small and improve structures the whole process of mobilization community and monitoring tools for something that is a takeaway from here land rights play an important role and is often overlooked in intervention okay that's very important I think how that really is actually from the stories that we've heard that really is a big issue if we really want to talk about adaptation and resilience so these are some of the responses that we've had I think there's a lot more and that would be part of the documentation that we will be getting from our documenters of this effort at this time I would like to invite your final comments I'd like to invite Argo first to give your final comments I think that was a great session a lot of learning for me itself hearing for great cases I think what really struck me is we talk a lot about scale and resilience and this is important scale is important but I think we often think about scale in a geographical context of scaling out while that is important I think the scaling up what we call political scaling up where you look at a small solution making a small difference in an area it's also a very important part of scaling up and I think that needs to be recognized and not just the geographical scaling up because the small political scaling of examples or evidence do have a great they're grounded and they do make a difference in somebody's life I think we can't ignore that we need to talk more about it so that more it is available to help such scaling up happen on the ground this is what I actually take away from all the four key presentations today thank you so much thank you so much Argo I'd like to invite Violet now as the chair of the Huayru Commission to also give her comments Violet? Thank you so much Dege Huayru Commission believes in the contribution of grassroots women and grassroots women are solution providers in many struggles that the communities are facing in development and when I listen to all these stories including what I was sharing is that our struggles is what we learn from and out of these struggles we are able to develop solutions based on the our community these solutions and I'm happy of the last speaker may look small but actually how they are able to be advanced the number of people that are getting involved in that very community and the solutions that they are addressing is actually a magnitude and even the partnerships that you are seeing evolve from this and what these solutions are also demonstrating is that as grassroots women we don't just it is different when we invite governments to meetings to bring solutions and it's also it is also unique when we start by mapping our own problems doing community consultations so the force when we are inviting government is different and the power shift is actually can be seen at that level which positions us as grassroots women differently it is not easy to invite the minister of even a county to turn up for a meeting for the grassroots they usually just come to say I'm coming to open and then they go but when we shifted this to start providing solution because they also have a mandate to deliver in agricultural productivity to deliver on economic well-being of the society so when we provide these solutions and we are working in our collective whenever we invite them they are not coming to open a meeting and go and just provide a blueprint report to say the government will work on ABC but they are listening from the people with solution that makes them sit in the meeting and even in our Zoom meetings that we were doing throughout this time of COVID because we used COVID to show how food security is important at this time and how these policies should actually be accelerated and be implemented quicker than before because of the current pandemic that we are in where people need food so we would find already the minister has logged on in the Zoom call and is waiting for us to log in to start the discussion and we started the discussion in a friendly way partnership, equality no one is powerful than the other we are calling each other and listening to each other and this is actually the kind of partnership that we are talking about this is the partnership that the grassroots women are calling about partnership that is meaningful that reorganizes us as equal we people are talking about resources and I'm happy that resource is not number one but equally these processes need to be supported and we know in the thinning world the first people to leave the drawing board when we submit our applications are the grassroots women so we really need to look at these alliances the coalition the grassroots women are building to be able to strengthen them and calculate how much money could actually go to support these kind of initiatives that are working for the people thank you so much thank you so much Violet the power of organization the power of negotiation the power of alliance building and the power of partnership so Ranjana can I invite you now to do the closing remarks thank you Dinky wow that was really something a lot of food for thought from grassroots movements as well as policy makers I'm just going to reiterate a couple of things that have stayed with me and I think I'll be mulling over many of the comments when I listen to the recording again but I think that what we heard is essentially that grassroots driven solutions which are coupled with the leadership and the constituencies of the grassroots actually are making policy makers fit up and listen and when they come with solutions to offer then that shifts the dynamic between the grassroots and the government and terrific point there from the scale that vertical scaling up and connecting and making these changes from the ground is as important as scaling out I also liked the fact that he talked about the idea that we should keep we shouldn't separate keep separating climate and disaster resilience from development we know at the grassroots level that they're completely linked and they're interlinked and entangled but it's good to hear someone from a modular bank say that we shouldn't separate these and work in silos and we also heard the very important point about underlying risk drivers how often do you go to a climate or disaster meeting and hear people talking about land rights but it is in fact such an important factor the ability to claim and gain and maintain and hold on to your assets in the face of adversity is such an important factor in building resilience and therefore property rights become such an important issue but it's such a contentious politically contentious issue that people really want to come close to it so with that I want to thank our terrific panelists big thanks to Violet, Nancy Ronia Toon, Mia Kabir and Orgho for their remarks it's been super hearing from you and also a very special thanks to Dinky for her fabulous facilitation but also I enjoyed hearing how the pioneering work that she did with government in the Philippines and bringing together the multilateral banks to work on community driven development have really created such a legacy it went forward to become the village law in Indonesia and is now being discussed as one of the major mechanisms of the multilateral banks can use to actually promote community engagement and put money in their hands of communities to decide on what kinds of solutions they need locally so with that I also want to give big thanks to our volunteers for managing us and handling all the technical work that we have no idea how to manage and big thanks to the audience especially those of you who woke up early in Europe and I hope that this was something that was really worth your time I thought it was so thank you so much to all of you and enjoy the rest of your time at CDA so bye bye Thank you very much we say now good bye to everyone people can sleep, people can go on with their day and thank you we'll see you again in the other parts of the CDA thank you very much