 Well, it's 10. It's officially seven o'clock, so we'll call this January 22nd meeting of the water break select board to order And the first action item will be to approve the agenda dive emotion Further discussion Question executive session at the end executive session at the end after next meeting agenda Excellent We have one small change And Excellent all in favor I any opposed or abstentions Fantastic, we have an agenda for this evening Next would be to approve the consent agenda Any further discussion Excellent all in favor Any opposed or abstentions great consent agenda passes You'll note our chair Roger is not here today So I will be chairing and appreciate you all being here this evening We're moving into the section of public where you're welcome to speak on anything. That's not on tonight's agenda We ask you keep your comments to about three minutes should warrant a larger discussion We can move it to a future agenda item. Is there anyone who would like to speak from the public? Don't need to come to see about the front there, but I just wanted to say that I Am upset and completely disappointed in the fact that our State House representatives decided to choose tonight The same night that our select board meets Not only for The voters here Constituents here, but also you people you could have Attended that as well and maybe heard from your constituents What's concerning them at the state level with your turn? They got you out here as well. So I'm a little disappointed that they would hold a forum like that On a Monday night known full well, but that's typically the select board That's all I want to say As a general public announcement there it we're planning an event for February 10th From 6 to 9 p.m. At the Legion. It's a volunteer and community Appreciation and recognition of the flooding. We're calling it what the floods now two of them It's a partnership between the town the rec committee rotary. I'm serving as the select board rec But just recognizing that this has been a large event for the community And we want to have time for folks to come together both to acknowledge and appreciate the community and all the volunteering That's happened and also think about what the future looks like There will be food and music and it's at the Legion with the cash bar So it's intended to be not all business also just a nice chance to connect with neighbors So everyone who's volunteered or been impacted by flooding is welcome and we'll be sharing it out There is a Facebook event and it will also be in the waterway roundabout local press etc But just wanted to put out a save the date so February 10th 6 to 9 p.m. And hope to see folks there Thank you Anyone else from the public excellent. Thank you so much So we'll move on and we have an update from the housing task force My name is Joe So like for Sorry But I'm not hearing Anybody on the select board. Oh, thank you Sorry and thank you We appreciate you're telling us Okay, now we're ready Jack So hello, my name is Joe camera. I'm chair of the Waterbury House Thank you for the opportunity To present tonight what I like to do is just give a very short introduction To the task force and then talk about short term rental So I'm going to cover three topics. I'm going to cover the data that we have on short-term animals More importantly the data we don't have on short-term animals I like to show a comparison around how Waterbury compares to some of the other towns that are looking at this issue And then lastly, I would like to review some policy objectives that have been wrapped about a task force and then a recommendation In what interview or no, we can just scroll down So just in general the task force goals are Um, they've come from the community the 2018 community and essentially To summarize it the way we look at it is what we are trying to do is look for opportunities of infill development With in Waterbury meaning that where Waterbury already has The infrastructure support additional housing density. What types of housing needs to be there? How much housing needs to be there and some of the topics that we are we are looking at we've drafted Just as a side note in our last meeting. We drafted a list of 2020 three accomplishments that I'll be circulating Okay, the members on the task force are Here's something There's actually nine members a lot of the lot of them are here in attendance tonight The four on the left-hand side were prescribed the members by the ordinance I guess it's an ordinance that was passed and then the ones People on the right-hand side are representing the general public So in September of 2023 the task force Accepted the motion and over to collect additional data on the makeup of short term How many And then also to collect some type of comparison of how we compare to the nearby community So as I mentioned, that's what I want to go through in this presentation The last thing about the motion was to make a recommendation on rules for regulations for the select word That's why we're here to see But just as we start kind of a general statement on short term rentals from the housing task force And the reasons for lack of affordable housing or any housing actually what are very are complicated You know, while short term rentals have gained in popularity and I'll show you data around that The impact on the overall housing stock remains uncertain. I'll tell you why that is The second thing is that short term rental services source of income both the property owners and the Tourists that they attract support to restaurants So we recognize there is an economic benefit to having short term rentals in in the in the down But before we get too much deeper into it, let's talk about getting you when we say short term and it's a it's definitely something that's bandied around quite a bit but For the data that we're going to look at we mean rentals that are less than one calendar month But we also mean rentals of a unit which are kind of a standalone housing unit meaning they have Place to sleep. They have their own bathroom. They have some type of kitchen facility, whether it's, you know A full kitchen or kitchenette. Um, so it could be houses. It could be apartments. It could be 80 units What it is not it's not a room to somebody's house that you're you're running out. So That there is data on that but that's not what we're talking about here So what we're talking about is if you would we're talking about rentals that could also be thought be useful in a long term So that's how we define that. That's the data that we're going to be showing This next slide is real quick. The state put out some best practices for communities that are looking at this They kind of recommend you do five things You understand you look at the data understand the scripts and trends in your areas like the policy objectives Look at what regulations do you have in place and then and identify any gaps between policy objectives and regulations That's kind of the process that we that we've gone through starting with the data working our way The executive summary i'm going to i'll go through this quickly because we're going to talk about these in more detail I mean, I think you all have known or read that short term rental. This is a problem. There's a problem that Across the nation but definitely across the state that they're up 3.6 percent with since the pandemic and about They're up to represent 3.6 at the housing stock in the state and it's about 37 percent increase since the pandemic If you look at it for us In what a very there's 162 short term rentals as of september of last year That are entire housing units and that represents seven that represents 7.2 percent of our households And an increase of about 57 From pre-pandemic levels. So if you go back to september of 2019 There was 103 units september of last year we picked september of last year because that's the last month of which we have data And you'll see that when we come to the next rental units Rental units in vermont towns are proposing regulations as I mentioned And I'm going to show you how we compare to them. But for most of those towns that their short-term rentals Well, I should say rentals account for less than 20 percent of their housing stock So if I look at the other towns and we'll talk about this they have a different type of housing Stock mix than we have in water. I'm not saying as good as my bed But it does kind of explain why they're why they're pursuing this strategy And it's something that I think or I would suggest that you consider as you consider how to go forward And the last point is we have four policy recommendations and four policy objectives and a recommendation on those So let's look at the trends that I've already kind of pushed on this earlier, but They increased 58 percent since before the pandemic so 102 units to 160 to 162 But just looking at that overall line, it's going in kind of one direction except for a few years I wish we had the pandemic it's going up, right? You can just see the increase in now Wouldn't tell you that this looks any different than other towns facing the sliver of the line It's definitely a little bit sharper on towns that are near the ski areas And maybe less so the further away you get from the mountains. Okay, but in general overall, I think it's increasing In 2019 And in 2019 the short term rentals were 4.4 percent of our housing units And they're now 7.2 percent. So they have increased Not just a number, but as you can imagine because our housing stock has not increased dramatically in those years They're now a higher percentage of the housing stock I'm going to show you how that number of the compares to other channels that I'm looking at putting Thank you So What you would like to know and what I would want to know is where are those short term rentals coming from? Are they coming from houses that were previously owned? Are they coming from long term rentals? Are they coming from seasonal? And the answer is we don't know and we don't know because those databases are disconnected The short term rental information comes largely from a company called air DNA now that what we're looking at has been actually taken in and Taken into the state wrote in the housing data that were about the word pull up from but the state pulls it from air DNA And over here the housing stock is coming from this is coming from the u.s. Census Bureau And it's not possible right now for us to say What impact has had where the where is coming from the housing stock? But I can talk a little bit about the housing stock and they make up that we have And it's generally when you think about housing in an area it fits into three buckets It fits into owner occupied housing Long-term rentals and then what's called seasonal seasonal rentals. Okay, and for us The owner occupied housing represents 63 percent of our our housing stock Long-term rentals account for 31 percent of the housing stock and keep that in mind We'll talk about that later and then the seasonals are about six percent if you look at just 2016 and 2021 on that chart The one trend that you'll see is there's been a growth in terms of the overall seasonal units And again, I I don't think that's necessarily coming from new houses that are being built Um, it could be from houses that are being purchased and are made seasonal units as opposed to being owner occupied units Okay, but but that's definitely a trend that we're saying Let's look a little bit more around what we know Around the short term I'm showing you data here From 2019 and 2023, but the dollar data the financial data We actually inflation adjusted back to the 2019 Because if you look at it go well, you know the average monthly revenue went from 3200 to 4200. That's a big increase Actually, it's not that big of an increase You know, but I think what I'd like you to take away from this slide is that If I was a person who owned a short term rental in 2019 My business isn't so different in 2023 meaning that I still listed for about 25 days a month I still have that, you know, my average reserve days have increased just a little bit from 13 to 15 My average numbers of reservations per unit are still about five But the total number of reservations that we see in those two months have increased from 543 to 871 So where is that coming from? It's almost all coming from the new units that have been onto the market That change of 102 up to 160, so right is encountering for almost all of the total reservations So that is both a blessing and a curse, right? It's a blessing because there are people that are coming to our house, right? They're coming in and I mean they're paying our property owners to stay there. They're coming to our shops They're coming to our restaurants, right? On the other hand It's housing that may or may not have been used in in another way And again, we're still trying to dig out a lot of it But I guess the one side to take away is that the efforts that we have in terms of proposing and and and marketing if you would, Waterbury had been extremely successful because So let's look at across the state and this isn't this isn't comprehensive in every town But what I tried to do was pick those towns that had to You were aggressive in terms of regulation and Compare them to Waterbury. We first started to compare them by geography. How far away were they from us? And that really didn't make much sense What actually made much more sense was to look at them in terms of what does their housing stock look like? And does it look like the makeup of our housing stock, okay? And remember for us sure-term rentals are 7% long-term rentals are 31% of our housing stock If you look at something like Chillington, for example Their short-term rentals are much higher 32% and they have a really low number of long-term rentals In fact as that as the heading says every one of these towns except for Maristown That are looking at this their long-term rentals are less than 20% of their housing stock, right? So it's if you would a more immediate and urgent need that they're dealing with in terms of not having how long-term rentals if indeed They don't know any more than we do if indeed their long-term rentals are coming at these kinds of short-term rentals, okay? So that kind of gives you an idea Let me there is probably the latest I think in December the select board just approved an ordinance They are requiring a registry of short-term rentals again. You can see how how their housing stock compares Karen, can we just look at the next slide? And it's just the same again Kind of one that sticks out to me here is Maristown because their short-term rentals are 6% are there seven and their long-term rentals are 20 They've a lot like us right in terms of the housing stock And they have actually implemented One of the more restrictive regulations by requiring that there's only one short-term rental and it has to be on a primary property One of the I mean again, I left the city's aside. I left off and I left Berlin can add if I look more just at the towns But it's probably the most restrictive of any of the towns Any questions on that Couple quick questions. Yeah Slide 13 had the average monthly revenue. Yes So am I interpreting this correctly if I want to know the economic impact of just the rental side Can I take that 301 dollars daily rate? multiply by 871 and is that the Is that the total business generated in the town by Short-term rentals if you will that would have been the total number of You would have to take the reservations times the number of You have to take the number of Days right. Yeah, the average reserve days per unit, which is 15 and times that by 301 right because the reservation could encompass five days four days ten days And it's really important I'm sorry. I didn't touch on this is that But don't please don't times that by 12th, right because September is probably the busiest month, right that you're going to Again, I picked it because it was the latest data. We had we seasonally adjusted back to september of 2019 But please don't times it But that's Almost four million dollars worth of reservations in one month So the way I think of it too is if we had a local option tax, it's almost 40 000 dollars In revenue for the town in one month Yeah, it's just a quick one on slide 17 So Sorry 16 Morristown, Morristown, Morristown, I assume they're I would assume they grandfathered Existing people who were renting prior to this Okay, I don't know someone behind you Thank you, that's it. Um, do we have breakdown on Out-of-state ownership of short-term rentals So no very good question, right? But what we don't Is the addresses by The air the information that we get that the state gets from air DNA is aggregated, right? Now if you go on to the air DNA website and you can look out water very a lot of right center You can see red dots and I can tell you that most of them are in the village and What's the water per percent I can tell you, you know But we don't know and because of that we can't do that crazy Because that's my biggest concern is that you're going to see more and more out-of-state investment taking away home ownership home ownership and rental opportunities for airbnb And that was a large that was a big part of the discussion on this dose left work and they had this was that and and If you look at so london dairy just put a registry now too far ahead But if you look at the way they wrote their registry Um, it really is driving at understanding who is doing this So let's talk about the housing test So we've looked over and asked What were the policy objectives and we had Um, a number that we reviewed and I'll show you the ones we prioritized and we'll talk about the ones we didn't prioritize, right? So the ones that we prioritized was, you know Maximize the availability of housing options by ensuring that limited long-term rental properties That so a limited number of the long-term rental properties are converted into short-term rental So it's not that we're going to see our long-term rentals go from 31 percent down to Down to 20 percent. Well at the same time our short-term rentals are going from 7 to 20 or something like that So we're looking at that Michael, to give me to your point, we do so likelihood of investors from out of the area purchasing homes for short-term rentals That would otherwise be critical part of our local housing supply You know also concerned You know, we feel it's important to give residents the options to utilize their properties to generate extra income from short-term rentals As long as you're meeting the other policy objectives that are that are associated with it. So I was not trying to Close that down And then the other was I mean this is giving I guess a little bit to what time alluded to is ensure that the short-term rentals are Kind of taxed in the same way as the traditional lot lodging providers So that we don't see a shift away from the lodging providers and the loss of those jobs Right at the expense of So they were the four objectives that the task force thought were important money came to think about Questions on this Let's look at the one that we did once we did it So we did it and the source for these wasn't going to make these up. There's actually a lot of good information That you can get through the state in terms of what policy objectives to consider. So we actually use that to create those Um, we didn't feel that there was an issue around Party houses that were causing safety risks or movies or things like that that wasn't I remember early early on in the stew discussion. That was a big issue Um, no one felt that that was a big issue that we had here They also did a prior choice, you know, the other way going heavier the short-term rentals because you want to drive additional tourism Right to the to the restaurants, although it's having a big path and impact them out right now And this kind of gets a little bit into some of the zoning around this is that we didn't necessarily think That tradition we needed to define traditional residential neighborhoods as opposed to areas where air be Could be right. It wasn't trying to restrict it geographically in the town. We just said that wasn't as important Um, interestingly enough, we also didn't prioritize gathering information about short-term rentals, although that is our recommendation But by that we said we didn't think that Gathering information is an end to end in itself, right? If you're going to gather information, you're going to gather it for a reason. We should talk about why All right, uh, if I could then oh, so this the last slide then is that We feel I know there was an earlier discussion at one of your readings in december about about this topic, right? Is we should explore the development of a registry that supports collecting a different additional information on all types of rentals short term intermediate term and annual rentals in the existing housing stock and What we really think is important to know is the ownership issue You know who owns these And where are they where are they coming from? We also think it's important to have information about what is the unit that is being rented Is it a room? Is it an adu? Is it a house? Because that helps us to understand a little bit around the impact it's having on housing Is it impacting people who want to move to water wherever you can't find the department? Is it impacting more people who live here want to buy their first house? But they can't because we're seeing this house to put up So we need to understand what is being rented and then the other is simply what is the rental type Is it short term? Is it an annual lease or is it somewhere in between? Remember short term rentals kick off at 30 days, right? And the annual leases are a year, but there's some intermediate Rentals that are happening in there And then we think that we would like to be able to use that data to really come back and understand What's impact is it having on the housing stock? Where is it drawing from because that's going to help us Make better decisions about what types of housing we get in the water very if it's coming from the department If it's coming from people who want to have a one or two bedroom apartment as a different type of housing And of course the people are Actually buying houses for short term rentals and that's causing people who live here in apartments not to be able to buy So it's a different type of need, but we just don't know So with that that's the end of my prepared presentation. I'd be happy to take any questions questions from the slack board I just as a general comment. I think this is well needed probably over It's probably should have been done almost by now because I think It's becoming a problem and you know, maybe we should have done something ahead, but it's good that we're looking at it now We need to figure out what the problem is And you know, I think the biggest thing I don't want to prevent someone Who has a home maybe especially is more and more seniors, you know Look for some additional income to support as taxes get more and more But you know, I think as the town manager said it could be a place for you know, for our local options tax Because if there is more of a lodging kind of thing that the town may may want to benefit in some way shape or form So without having to registry, you know, we don't just don't know Joe, I would just like to thank you for all the work you and I have the task force have done Very well done presentation and the fact that you've mulled over hundreds of pages of data to get to get all this information is not lost on me Other questions Yeah, oh sorry, Mike. I'm gonna let yes. Could you come on up for ends to state your name? Hot Cheryl floor. Thanks. Um, so question you talked about existing housing start Um, you're going to be some kind of recommendations on People just buying land and building a house specifically for short term mental On asking because there are some already in town that are specific for that. They're their houses. They're they're um I know literature is working on a new way that people To build Less active 50 influence I can see that having an impact on the land that we have surrounding us. We're our village. We don't want to get Too many people buying up that land and then having it turned into something that I'm gonna be really messy. So are you guys looking at not just existing but future How we would register people who want to purchase land and maybe just do that and not as a house Yeah, that's a good question. We talked about existing housing But The registry this recommendation would be for anyone who's having short term rentals And I think you're right. We've also talked about, you know, the new proposed zoning regulations and increasing density in the village You know, I mean they're being proposed so that we can increase the housing stock here What would happen if you know 100% of those who just made the short term rentals? We what we have game I mean Tourism, but we wouldn't have gained what we hope to gain in terms of passing increasing our density So it wouldn't be for just existing if it would be for anyone And then we as a town they will say We're out of capacity on short term rentals. How can it happen? Like what I'm asking is can someone just come in and buy up five acres of land and then Decide that they've decided hey, it's my property. I'm going to do a short term rental I'm not existing housing stock. I'm building new housing stock Your zoning is going to allow it so so thanks very much, but I'll do it a lot I'm just something to think about as you guys are coming up with Yeah, and so the first step before the any policies that would be to put a moratorium moral limitation Is the registry and then we get to make those decisions going forward like the other towns have because it's important to keep in mind Mike you had more. Yeah From on state housing authority The number of years ago. Didn't they create a statewide housing registry for rental housing? They made it into the final legislative proposal Finally went through But I know that was talked about right because if it is and I think that was more not geared It was more before this whole short term rental. I think it's more geared for a registry for Tradition more traditional rental housing But that might have some information because a lot of those traditional rental housings could have converted to It don't have anything on On the traditional rental market. I don't think anything ever came of that. Yeah, I know it was being mold about I don't know if it ever came about but I don't think all of the one for lodging because they collect it right right So uh, really big project Joe When these other towns have put the regulations in place Is it a rental regulation? Is it interleaf into zoning regulations? And if it's in the zoning regulations, if you just plop it in you don't have to Muck with everything else you've done your zone. I mean, how does it how does it actually get implemented once you know How you want to regulate? So the first thing I want to say is that if you look at at the list outside of marisville and You know One town that has a moratorium most of them haven't done anything yet Most of them are exactly where we are Where the recommendation is let's have a registry so we we understand what's happening or where it's happening But if you go a little deeper and kind of listen to the discussions, there's at least You know one of the towns which have talked about in the zoning perspective say there's parts of towns that should have short terminals And there's parts of towns that should not feel like that But nothing has been Ability it's um You have your choice in this when you can do it other way Into a freestanding ordinance if you were going to regulate short term rentals or you can do it to the zoning side I just wanted to clarify joe on the recommendation around um, if this covers both short term rentals and long term rentals Because I know that's something we discussed We don't really know where that housing spot is either Right right so just to state so this is intended this recommendation is intended to cover both Chris Yeah, has there been any any discussion during your meetings about uh, what's driving the short term rentals obviously it's It's a better income source in a lot of cases I'm in the construction industry and I see what goes on out there. I see people actually building Two holes one for themselves in a small unit for air bnb to help afford The house and people are putting apartments over the garage is there air bnb and those out If your goal is to Try to create more long-term Rental units By trying to squeeze on the short terms Uh, has there been any discussion about And I know this is a state issue landlord and tenant regulations which What I understand being heavily towards the tenant That's why people are getting away from the long-term rentals because they don't want to Take the risk of being stuck with somebody who doesn't want to pay their rent and Essentially have a very costly process of getting them out And has there any been any discussion as to how that plays into this whole mix? I mean Chris, well the best we know is the anecdotal information and I would say that On the side of short-term rentals the major argument Is exactly what she said that long-term rentals are risky in their conversations, right? You know On the other hand we have a lot of people So that's what we usually hear and then for short term rentals, it's you know What we usually hear in favor of the short term rentals is that if you Didn't allow me to short term rental that unit I would just call because it might be a house That my family uses when they come to visit or a room and they're using it for five weeks a year And they're not it's not always one So that's what you hear kind of on both sides, but we haven't done a survey we talk to people Yeah, I mean that's one of the things that I'm also seeing is that people from The purchasing these homes as second homes and that's how they're financing them Paying for paying for them. That's really short term rentals and And they use you know, they got themselves slotted in when they want to come out, but it's it's an investment for them You know, it's a way of Playing a different kind of stock market Tom I have a question. What if we'd be able to look at the grand list and look at the transactions in the last two years and understand Who buying here? So we can we can see who buys based on the land records um Yeah, so we can we can take a detailed dive if we knew exactly which units and we could see if that was Essentially built for a short term rental But we need the addresses And then it's Doesn't tell us is that someone comes in and sets up a local LLC and they're out of state investors And that's why I said I recommend looking at the london dairy Regulation because that goes actually much deeper. It says if you're a corporation, you've got to list me your principal owner to your addresses because they're trying to We wouldn't know that from the grant but we'd be able to tell If it's out of state or people that are you know in state or in town Joe the Yeah, the pttr, which is one of the documents recorded does say whether it's your primary dwelling Or not, right? So there is some indication in the transfer Whether they're moving here from Connecticut or wherever Or whether they're buying it as a second home Thank you, Joe So it seems like our next stop will be to take these recommendations into consideration adding them to another a future agenda And then discuss and move forward So we appreciate you're on the task force work a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you And next we have a cv fiber update Excellent Chris come on up. Thank you Um, so I don't have a prepared update for what's going on the cv fiber And the short term is that you know, we're not at water very yet. Um, that would probably be another year So, um, there are details on the website if anybody wants any specific updates But the reason I'm here tonight is that, um, lindu bravel Our delegate, um, the past few years and has been doing a fantastic job Is wants to step back and spend less time on cv fiber, especially with the elections coming up We all know how busy she is and how involved she is in those. Um, and so Um, we're asking if I can become the the primary delegate and she would become the alternate at least until the election cycle Questions from the select board or Chris's part of a Excellent, so then I would entertain a motion Um, I moved to authorize chris shank as the full water very delegate to the cv fiber Governing board from the period from january 2024 through april 2024 Or until the annual elections remain 2024 in place of linda grovel Who will be our alternate and to ask the town clerk to please send a letter authorizing this swap To the cv fiber executive director Moved in seconded any further discussion. Thank you to you chris and to linda for spending so much of your volunteer time Doing this and I will say just so folks don't like if you want to give the three second club Cv fibers like on the ground in communities in vermont providing internet that's happening. Yes. Yes, um, yeah For for more details, please go to cv fiber dot net. Um, but it is a An active live Internet provider now. Um, I think we have 76 but we've um, we've passed something like 1500 different addresses and There you can actually see all of the towns that we're that we are serving currently and what is next up And it's kind of looks like a donut really weird-looking donut, but it's a a big circle and and we started in Cowess and we're kind of moving around the ring like this and And so we're you know kind of going in in both directions at the same time and water very is You know is coming up on on the western side of that ring But we have pricing information and you can put in your address and And get notified if anybody wants information about when you'll have service and and we are focusing on even though we've passed You know something like 1500 addresses um, the focus is on First providing service to those who have no service or have very limited service That is our primary Customer base and that's what we're focusing on and and once those customers are served We are going back to to serve everybody. So even if you do have Comcast or you know consolidated and you know Your speeds are okay, but you want to work with a local company That is a not-for-profit company and the more People we serve the lower our prices will get because we will be operated like a municipality. So Yeah, go to our website and find out more. Thank you. You said it was cv fiber dot net cv fiber dot net. Yes We have a motion Do you further discussion before we vote or just so I Okay, all in favor Any opposed or abstentions? Emotion passes. Thank you so much and like you on it to add I do have a question for chris I was exhibiting this weekend at the champagne valley fair and one of the Exhibitors at the fair was that they had a big banner local local fiber internet They were fidium Okay, yes, you That's consolidated. Oh, that's consolidated. Okay That now I know There are there are um additional companies like us. Um, right that uh, that are um CUDs or communication union districts that are actual not-for-profit companies That are like us to the area that provides our yes in different areas and cv fibers the ones serving Mostly washington county. It's not quite as you know, straight core is that But but yes, and and we will be actually we already are setting up You know things events like that at little local fairs and things And one will be coming to library once we are serving Okay, thanks. Thanks. Thank you very much. Yeah. Have a good night And we'll moved for the budget starting with the senior center Take it away tom Right. Oh, hello Thank you for coming Oh Can you introduce yourself for the can you introduce yourself for us before you get started? That's okay. I'm worried white. Thanks morning So we're asking for the same amount as that we serve 15,169 meals to a lot of great residents last year late for the year ending september 30th, which is our fiscal year Most of that is meals delivered to homebound seniors Some of it was in our congregate dining room. So 50 and that's about six percent over the prior year Our budget this year I did send you copies of it Is up about four percent, which is mostly Rage of increase and also food increase, but everything else kind of stayed the same So the new thing this year The reason why we can keep our funding request the same is we're getting extra money from the state this year The state legislature added a million dollars to the state budget for senior meals Um In the past so we're getting an extra 84 cents meal, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up So that's an extra $15,000 in revenue in our budget So because of that we can keep everything kind of the same You know, we now have you know increased costs and increased meals and you know a number of meal requests kind of go up and down depending on So um, there's that and the other thing I wanted to mention to you is that last time I was here we talked about our aging dishwasher I just want to tell you that we applied for a grant from the Vermont department of building and some of the general services the building communities grant And we applied for for a dishwasher and we cut it. Yeah, and it required a one-to-one match for fundraising Which we did and we got a new dishwasher December 7th That's great Fewer expenses for that I don't have anything else to report. We did have another successful financial review fiscal year ending 22 came back cleaning there were no changes to our books So we do have outside Potter looking at our books every year They'll do a full audit every three years and then between they'll do a review which is like less cut down So we're proud of that Do any questions Um What's the status of the full renovation of the kitchen? So we went through we got the plans from down from And um as it turned out downstreet Downstreet about two and a half years ago did a building renovation that it was it was a huge renovation They got a lot of tax credits because of that and so they can't make any changes So for another two and a half years We can't put a hole in all we can't do anything. So we're kind of stuck We've also been trying to get hold of the state fire marshal to tell us, you know, what's you know, what can we do? And we're not getting a response. So we're we've spent the money that you gave us from New York funds But we kind of stuck I was hoping Justin would come and explain More of that to you. But as far as I understand it, we're there's nothing we can do So I don't know what happens to the phones How do you go back? I I know old much about tax credit. So I I'm really sorry to say we didn't ask downstreet first Mm-hmm Okay Maybe your friend could have answered Neftech it's a fire suppression system, right? Or is it your whole hood then that's the whole is the whole They did all the plans. They have a whole thing worked out. So going I'll Decide to go on the back or something. So we did we did spend the 10,000 551 that you gave us For the plans and for everything and we were all set to come to us for town permits Downstreet next to I just want to say you're not you're not the first group to get Stuck in the morass of tax credits and historic buildings and you won't be the last That's not to me I think you know, we'll keep Open communication with ongoing and then if there is anything I mean, it sounds like It's pretty tight constraints But if there's contact we can help with or those kinds of requests, you know reach out to us or to tom and Just keep uh Plugging away I don't you did you did say that like That period that they couldn't do any work was only five years So Even two more years that we could do some work and the plans wouldn't change so you have those and be ready for when you could It's you still need to be still in the fire Other questions very silly regulations Federal money, um, okay. Thank you so much. I don't need to do I think right Triple check About the senior center with no funding increases last year we had a discussion about how much of it is on the budget Which is the morning so we can revisit that later. Okay And library budgets So overall the library budget this year there's sort of the twofold discussion tonight with the budget there was Not a lot of increases and a lot of the different slots The overall picture but there was a few Portions that had largely increases one being the health insurance for existing employees, which we have actually no control over People choose different plans and they pay different amounts based on what they choose and that is entirely to them But the other thing that we wanted to increase this year was the regular pay And that is sort of where We're trying to fix some of the inequities in the pay that we have been That have been brought to our attention more recently and so commission and our discussions we had In prior years been contributing $30,000 from the library trust and the budget that Tom proposed We wanted to bring up to $45,000 and that is sort of where the commission would run into a bit of a Discussion with whether or not that would be agreed upon We all agree that the increases in the library pay aren't necessary and Absolutely warranted, especially when compared to other libraries in certain areas And I can get into that in more detail. I don't know if that would warrant by the executive session on Employee salaries or not, but on the side of the trust in particular I just wanted to bring up that Um in if going with an increase of the $45,000 or up to 45 so it's an extra 15,000 I was looking at it as From idea if we look at the earnings for a year of last october to this october If we did that full $45,000 that's taking about 90 of the earnings from the trust And I the commissioners are not as comfortable with taking that large amount out of the trust And also the trust has been The contributions of the trust has been That we've been using it for in the past years have been increasing quite dramatically over the last few years in 2020 It was at 14,000 2021 it went up to 26,000 and then in 2022 it went up to 30,000 So then now we're up to 45 We just want to be mindful of that money keeping it For a future use and making sure that it still has enough keeping From the earnings that are going back into it so that we can keep it growing and continue to use it in many years to come for the benefit of the library and the benefit of the town and All the people in it because the library does so much for all of us and we really Are so lucky to have a beautiful library with really great staff and they do awesome programming and Have a nice collection for for from the left and the size of town that we have and Couldn't ask for for for better people in it. And that's the real thing is that the people are the asset when it comes to the library They are controlling the collection and the programming and the atmosphere And without them, it's just a building with books in it that they bring the life to it So we certainly deserve to have I guess that's the start of my spiel Does anybody have any questions to go on? Mike But Why do you feel that it's not it's not appropriate to take money from the trust fund to help Balance some of your salary and inequities. I think we do. So we're happy with the 30,000. It's like going up the additional 15 that's causing Giving us pause because we don't want to set the precedent that we're going to be giving 90 of the trust away every year Um The trust has about 600,000 dollars And so the the budget Where we're at today with which has about a three and a half percent tax increase Has 30,000 in the budget not the 45 um I didn't put the 45 in because The library commissioners control the trust So you can You cannot tell them to put more money from the trust in the budget But you control every other line on them in the budget And and my conversation with the library commissioners what I said is No, the trust 600k is a pretty healthy amount and You have a trust for a lot of reasons And oftentimes you're started with one large donation But the but oftentimes trusts are used for things like big capital project That's probably the most common reason why you try to build a trust And I thought with none in front of us in the foreseeable future because we've got a really nice new building the The big challenge of today is finding and retaining employees And so I thought if we can for one year bump up the trust to help us get over that That payroll hump For one year So essentially the trust going from 30 to 45 covers just about half Of the salary and then you know the cycle that goes with that With the plan that we go back to the 30 in future years I agree with Tom I'm kind of really questioning as to If you're not foreseeing something that you're going to need as a big spending program Why can't you take that money out of that extra 15 thousand dollars out of our trust? I know it's a commissioner kind of thing, but you know, we're also looking at the whole health of the whole community and You know, when there's a big healthy amount I look at that as you know, well, maybe that should be spent Yeah, I mean the money is for the benefit of the library and I think spending money to to To provide for the budget is certainly a good use of it. Um, I'll say that there We're differing opinions on the commission at different points too. Um and that I think if there was a Some sort of agreement that was written that said that it wouldn't be Going forward and that might have assuaged some of the I guess wariness of some of the commissioners they just do like a one-year bumpers Just saying that it's not forever that it it would just be for one year and then we Be back here again next year and come up with something else But they didn't want to just give it away without asking first Why not and it is only 15 thousand dollars which in the grand scheme for the town budget isn't that much um Tom did you Tom did you say one year? Did you say two or three years before you didn't Do you have something in mind? I have in mind one year to I thought of it is about the 15 thousand dollars would cover about half of the payroll increase So the town taxpayer would pay half the trusted pay the half to just move the impact of it um And I guess if you assume for a minute The 2024 budget has to payroll increase and has the extra money from the trust if we look ahead one year The library commissioners assume the library commissioners say 30 000 from the trust If the board were uncomfortable we then would have to go backwards On other expenses and cut the budget in other ways and there's no real way to do that in the library budget Because really the money is in personnel Um, I don't think we do that. I don't think we're going to be a position where that has to happen I think that'd be a pretty harsh decision to make So I think in a way, um, they're the guarantee Um of that So I think I think it's very possible And I get Just different ways to look at 15 000 dollars one way is you know, it's not a lot of money But bill woodruff with like an extra 15 grand in his budget and then so with cat arena and everyone else and 1% on the tax rate is about 45 grand So it's about a third of a percent. So it all adds up. It's all part of the big picture You know something I've I've heard about the budget From a few people on the select board and I guess the sentiment I get from the community is the sentiment I get from other towns is that Towns are feeling a lot of pressure right or right or wrong because of what's coming with school taxes Um, and so You know, it depends about your comfort with the tax rate Hi, Roger Yeah, daddy, thanks. Um, yeah, I am particularly concerned that we are facing a substantial increase in taxes due to the education budget And so if the Library commissioners are are okay with putting this off this increase off for a year I guess, you know, we would would might be okay with that but you know My senses that they're they're not interested in Putting their contribution forward. Um, so You know, I guess the question is Is that the message that we're getting from the library commission? You mean that either it would come from the town budget or it would not increase this year though Yeah, I'm not interested in increasing the town budget anymore than than we need to and My senses that the library commission has the money. Uh, they're not interested in spending the additional 15 000 Uh, so are they comfortable with putting this off this increase offer for the next year? Um, one more question. I know there are a couple of hands in the public and I'm sorry But just for clarification So if it were to come from the trust this year and then we said it was only one year The the idea would be that it would then be put into the town budget in the next year or finding some balance in additional revenue Um, or what are the thoughts? The idea will be next year the library would go back to Standard increases for everyone else that they get over the hump And some questions were from the public bill Yeah Thank you, um Just a couple of things and obviously I work commissioners for a long time And I understand the reluctance of the library commissioners to give too much from the trust But I also understand the select board and the manager saying that maybe this is a time that we can that we can do it I appreciate your statement about what the trust did from October to October, but your budget is a Uh annual budget that went from January 1st to December 31st Through november the the trust fund it's Increased in the trust and the interest through november december's Gains haven't even been posted yet was 81 thousand one hundred dollars This dark market did quite well in november and december. That was january through november bill. Sorry to clarify. Thank you um So far only 21 000 Of the 30 that was budgeted last year has been transferred from the trust to the To the general operating fund and i'll talk to tom Tomorrow sometime why that nine thousand dollars hasn't gone yet because they already was there They're the other donations Right, I think that's incorrect I can show you later, but the joslin is howland trusts are beneficiary revenue to the fund 16 the trust fund and then the trust fund makes the And I just looked at it before I came in to this meeting so i'm confident i'm correct anyway So right now 81 thousand was gained 21 thousand has been given from last year so Through november the trust is worth about 618 thousand dollars and When december donkeys are posted it's going going to be higher um, I think the commissioners should Talk about a policy going forward. That would be pretty simple. I um, we used to have a policy in fact It may be considered still under books And it was a complicated formula that I had worked with those trustees or those commissioners with And it took a percentage of the gain and so on and so forth, but the trust is getting to the point now that it's It's much heftier than it was 15 years or so ago when it was in the 300 thousand dollar range And maybe they should say you know four percent a year five percent a year of the ending value of the trust should be Turned over and in good years when the market goes up a lot The five percent will be You know a higher amount in bad years When the trust maybe even goes down Taking five percent of a lower level will be a smaller A smaller withdrawal and and then you know over time You hope this dark market will rebound I want to just let you know that I've done some research. I support the library Very very strongly I think if you go back and look at the things that I tried to do while I was here Was to really build the library up to the best of our ability But when you look at what we pay for a library compared to surrounding communities I read the Times Artists on January 5th Where they introduced their new director and The Aldrich library in Barry Barry city contributes two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year In barry town two hundred thousand dollars a year last year we contributed five hundred and thirteen thousand dollars in 2023 The Aldrich library in Montpelio Um There's five towns Montpelio East Montpelio, Berlin, Middlesex and Calais Montpelio pays in 2023 four hundred and eleven thousand seven seventy five This year It looks like they're They're going to go up to about They were at four eleven seven seventy four last year and they're going up to four hundred and forty four thousand seven hundred So at five thirteen You know, it's It's uh, what eighty thousand dollars more than Montpelio is contributing to their library I understand it's a different funding structure, but this the taxpayers in that Community are paying that amount and I'm trying to look at this a lot of different ways Um East Montpelio pays forty six thousand seven hundred dollars to that library Berlin Thirty four thousand Middlesex thirty two thousand and Calais twenty nine thousand Now those communities don't have the library in their town. So I understand that a little bit but if you look at uh tax effort And and you know Montpelio's grand list is almost thirteen million dollars equalized grand list last year And they're paying three cents three point two cents of the tax rate to support the four hundred and eleven thousand dollars Barry city has uh Six million six hundred thousand dollar grand list. They're paying three point eight cents. I I hear you bill I guess water braze paying four cents four point three cents last year So i'm just letting you know that I think that water break is Strongly supports this library And I think that given all those circumstances That you know a couple weeks ago. I thought tom's proposal was forty thousand dollars and maybe it's 45 But I think this is a year given everything that is going on That you should consider Making that larger contribution Yeah, elisa I guess i'll say as a select board member. Thank you my two concerns I think if we're paying employees in town inequitably, I want to make sure that's corrected So just to say I think it's our responsibility as a select board if folks are not being Paid in line with folks in surrounding communities as we just heard an Extensive comparison to other communities. You also can commute to work in another community So I just think we need to be mindful of making sure we're that support I guess I'm interested in terms of your conversation as a select board member I'm also struck with that wearing these seats today and trying to recognize what is a one-time circumstance and what's a long-term policy I'll say there's some situations we've had where we're not putting as much into reserve funds and Personally, I love funding reserve funds because I think they're important for rainy days And and I'm willing to make that concession this year because I think there are some one-time expenses Um, so I guess I was interested to hear that I also recognize this is the first time we're having a dialogue So I think as boards, you know, ultimately we're all trying to serve the community You all are elected library trustees also trying to be good stewards Um, and I just want to be mindful of the dynamics between the board So I was interested in your point around if there was a one-year assurance or an agreement for next year If that might potentially be useful to folks and if there's a way to look towards that Just wanting to be mindful of getting us all to the same end goal of supporting the library in a way that feels fair at all Couple of things to add I'm Margaret Moreland and I'm one of the library commissioners These are some of the highlights by the way things that were accomplished over the last year by the library in addition to everything that it usually does And just to correct one thing The um, Montpelier library is not a municipal library It's a Rachel knows this an incorporated library means that more of its budget does come from fundraising and Announcement as opposed to being built as a town department as this library is So one thing I wanted to say is that our contribution Since 2020 has already increased by a hundred percent and 2020 we were uh Contributing 14,255 The library budget has increased by 10 percent Because the library is doing a lot more than it has ever done before Um, this is at a time where the inflation rate is 20 percent So it's not really out of line with what's going on. In fact, it's very conservative Um We've also increased the money that we've gotten from other sources So that we can do programs And Most of all what I want to say is that The library employees are town employees The difference in the average salary Is horrendous And that's not just within other libraries thereby. That's also within the town and the town employees right there's a I don't know can I say what the difference is so We can have an executive session later and I can I could go over some comparisons I did using names and that's that's a part of it But I was personally shocked that This has been going on for years and these are not library employees only these are town employees So why shouldn't they be getting a fair salary and why should the trust fund bear The responsibility for that when we've constantly been increasing What we've been accomplishing and what we've been contributing We have contributed in the past to for instance when there was a new A new server was needed to the town Library contributed half of that money so We contributed a lot to the building of this building But the trust comes from money that was given to us To manage as a trust and there's a trust document and it it sets up the standard that we should be physically conservative and I don't remember the exact word Thank you. So before I want to Yeah, thank you. Michelle two seconds I just want to ask tom just procedurally and like what our goals are for this evening in particular and make sure that we're supporting conversation To help move us forward now and then put on you know a future docket like a future decisions in action So can you clarify what our goal is for this evening in particular the decision that has to be made is about The overall library budget and if you would Add a current tax increase of about three and a half percent. Would you support the library budget? With that tax increase or would you Want to return the library to the standard 4% that's budgeted for every other department Which would take Little over 20 grand out of their budget So that that's effectively the decision if you You know if you tell the commissioners you don't support the increases Without they are 15 with the extra 15 I suspect they would have another meeting and and Make a different make a decision if you're if you're okay At 30 grand from the library with the salaries with our tax rate Then I think we're all okay I would um amend that slightly. I think in my mind it's whether or not you require us to provide the 30 000 or the 45 because If we have to we will but We didn't want to go forward with that as the first offer Another statistic Is that uh the amount the library has received from taxes Has only increased 6% Oh since 2020 Why obviously inflation is more but um We're already using more Of our money or we're using it better So that shouldn't Make it a penalty And these are town employees who are paid Grossly different rates Thank you, dad I want to let michelle speak as well. Margaret. Thank you so much um, I Support be the commissioners support bringing the library up to the market level Wages one of our hesitancies of doing that with the trust is that The pressures on the library budget this year are All about um the wages and the health insurance So the trust and using one-time monies to support an ongoing expense Um just seemed to be a bit of a mismatch So, you know, like has been mentioned we supported a server kind of one-time expense in the past. So that is also a piece of How we're feeling about this and maybe wanting some assurance about it being A bridge And that was sort of my question to you tom is that it won't change You know next year so the money will need to come from somewhere next year So we're baking kicking the can 25 budget Right $15,000 increase right versus having to go back and do it now Where we've come so far um, is there a way that is More than just the board who's here, which will be a different board next year to tell the commissioners A handshake or something in writing or You know, we're going to do this next year or is it really just A comment, you know, it's really a I think it's really a handshake. Um, you know, you can't pass a law Right and that could be amended by the by the boards It really boils down to a handshake and and if I may just take a second Thank you. So when I when I started the budget just to give a little context I try to be careful not to Impact any one department because of something occurring in another I had a parody of everyone so I try to approach it through that lens number one number two You know, I didn't I didn't structure the the draft budget to cause some opposition here But the money has to come from somewhere and so I thought this was this was just a logical way to go about it and I also want to say I've had a bunch of conversations with diana and rachel and the other library board members and They're not wrong And I don't think I'm wrong either and that's the challenge here It's not that They're not wrong and they're extraordinarily thoughtful and they're protecting their trust Which is their job? and so They've been good productive conversations and I really appreciate those conversations I was just trying to find a logical way to an endpoint and trying to manage the whole and and that's all so I Not sure if I succeeded at that or not Roger go ahead. Thank you Yeah, uh, thanks tom. Thanks everyone I mean, obviously we can't give a guarantee, but I think our intention is to try to engage with the commissioners To get over get us over the hump. Unfortunately. This is not the only budget increase that we're facing And you know personally, I'm willing to make the commitment to get this back down to previous levels in coming years If I happen to be reelected And we're just looking for some support. You've had Fairly good year in terms of investments And we're just hoping that you will make the decision to Help us get through this impasse so I'd like to in the interest of a Ending on a good note and having productive conversation not Going too far down a path. We don't need to but also coming to some some good conclusions What is the board? Does the board need more conversation? Do you feel ready to move forward with? Uh decision-making Would like to interject to tom's comment about a few comments ago because this has been a long discussion About spinning More of the town budget on the library at the expense of the other departments And when it comes to equalizing wages I I guess I don't see it as an expense to the other departments more as Something that should have already happened. And so no one's taking any Cuts in a sense where now our wages are equal Right. No one's we're not ripping raises out of anybody's hands to give them to somebody else Right. It's we're just bringing everyone to the equal level and I understand our budget restraints And I understand that the trusts may have to contribute to this as well But there definitely is a common ground between Them using more of the trust than they're comfortable with and us spending more money than we're comfortable with If we can find an equal equalization between our spending and the trust spending I think that's going to make everyone in the room happy Do you have something to add if I can tell if you're raising your hand No, I just I would echo the same sentiments of like personally. I don't want to cut other line items That's just not how I as an elected official want to make budgets. I don't think that's Neighborly or in good faith to the community. I also think We're trying to again balance competing needs. So I I in terms of deliberation I guess the question is is there a way to revisit this With the commissioners and I guess I Michelle I do have one question Of I hear you around the trust and the one-time expenses I will say honestly the most interesting piece of news from each night is that this would be only on earnings from this year I guess I would say like we had conversations about a different trust fund and I'm not making analogy and I know they're different But when you're cutting into the principle, I really like just personally this really like see that need to be protective If if you're able to make a bigger One-year contribution out of earnings that are just from this year to me That does feel like something where I'm you know not putting undue pressure on maintaining that resource moving forward That is just a in my personal like view a different way of consideration And I would say the 30,000 does go to general operating right It's not it's just to it goes in with everything else. So Again, I don't I don't want to play personally don't want to play hardball That's not how I want to budget and just would Say like I don't want to demand an increase But if there's a way to revisit potentially looking at future years I mean that was the first question I asked Tom is what you're asking for more this year and we're going to be in the exact same place next year So recognizing it is our responsibility to pay folks equitably and That's the bottom line commitment And if this is a one-year thing that you can do without harming your asset for the future To me that's just a different type of consideration If I could just add that the increases in salaries still will not make them equitable Yeah, they are still Very much less Then earned by people in other libraries And other departments and departments And not for nothing Tom and I and ironically Rachel. Sorry are in the welcoming and engaging community cohort with the Vermont League of Cities in Town That's going to survey every town employee about if they feel welcome included and respected in the community And I would guess I would just say like I I meant that when I said that it is a priority For me personally to do that and some of that is data data gathering and collection And likewise when I was informed of this I felt like it was really important to address but conversation is an indication of respect And which is why I'm trying to get us to a path that make sure we're all supported by and why I'm not proposing Cutting budget, but I'm also looking to be collaborative with the town around a solution If it's not harming your arm to an asset and it's the same type of use that you already used the funds for So, yeah, and a reminder that we do have an imminent need and goal and that we're not solving All of the big picture problems in one decision and in one meeting, right? So there's there's a we're not going to get from A to Z tonight We're going to maybe get to see and we have a lot of work collaboratively to do to get to where the town needs to be So keeping that in mind that That's our goal and if it and I think it does necessitate more work together versus like You know, this is pretty new information. And so let's get to where we need to be to have a budget for march Mike One question. I probably it's for tom As much as I do agree with you. I think town town employees library employees should be equally paid but also this is a question of sometimes you have to analyze and Tom might know more and Rachel what people do and you have to analyze what someone You know, just because someone's doing this and someone's doing that Are they compensated at the same level because they're a library employee or a town employee It really depends on what their responsibilities are and You know, I'm totally for someone with the same same response similar similar responsibilities Getting paid similar Same with benefits and such like that. So I have no problem with that I just have a little more of a problem when we do have a large asset Where we're in a fiscal problem that maybe this this is a year that the library can contribute toward that As we get a little more repetitive, I want to circle back and see what maybe our next step is In decision-making or requests for forward movement So one thing you could do and I could print it out quickly is you could have an executive session now and invite the library commissioners and library director and we can take a look at the salaries In some of the comparables that would be that was if that's a desire Do you want to do it now? Uh, I mean does that is that feel I'm just thinking they're here. Is that at the end of this session? Right, man. Uh, does this decision need to be made this evening? Um, it's either this week or next week. Okay Could wait, but probably End of the week where you looking at me for You're the one who gives me all these deadlines about when I've got to wrap up I give you a deadline two weeks ago and here we sit so I guess my question is is the salary I guess my question is to the board Is the salary increase the problem is the amount the problem or is it just Another problem, but the question Is that going to change the opinions or are there is there a path a path b and path c that we can discuss and then Think about moving on forward does that roger? Yeah, I mean I thought I heard that uh with the assurance that uh, we would have every intention of returning to previous levels of the contribution of the trust Uh, that they would be willing to go up to the 45 000 dollars If that's agreeable to everyone, I'm agreed to move forward Uh, if not, then we do have to resolve the issue Would do you want to make emotion in that regard to see I'd like to hear back then from the commissioners. I mean I thought I heard that from the commission May I'm just testing is that what I heard? Um, I'm gonna say yes Keeping in mind all of the years that Uh, the town has benefited from not paying the people in the library What I should have been paid. I will not just Volunteers I agree with that. I however will not I wouldn't put this at jeopardy for that I guess is The most important thing is that our staff does deserve to be paid at the very least equitably Don't think otherwise Yeah, I and I and I feel like I've said it. I'm gonna say it again Uh, I will speak on behalf of the board that we agree and we want this to happen and we If we make this motion in this vote, it is with full intention of doing even better next year It's I think the issue is the timing what's been prepared What the all the factors are in terms of your budgets our budget's resources There is no dispute about the importance of Caring on the fact finding and making sure that we move forward in the best possible way for everyone. So This is not a debate about whether or not it's deserving to bring equity and respect and pay compensation The question is just about the the situation in front of us. So, um, I'm unsure at our muncher as to where to go unless there's a motion or Um, Chris, do you have a brief question? Yes, I just want to make a statement So I heard some information on WDB this morning whether it's true or not I believe it's true because you're talking about the anticipated State increase in education costs for a half a million dollar home. It's an additional thousand dollars for that homeowner Moving forward. We've got the 71 million dollar bond vote. That's looming 91 I was at the Wakefield meeting and they said it was 71 Andrew the reappraisal process that's has hit some towns and we'll be hitting ours soon to Take and move this money into next year's budget I think you're going to be faced with some more challenges next year You know given we can get through this year and a reasonable level without getting beat on too much, but I think you're speculating that you're going to be able to just make this disappear in the budget next year, but The stock market is doing very well. I encourage you to take the money now And make use of it and you'll recover it as the top stock market continues to move up Okay, I'm just going to comment that by this time next year. We will have a local option tax that we're going to be drawing on We love it depends on the short term rentals, I guess Roger you really uh, you picked a good one for to be on zoom. So are we in here? My parting gift I appreciate that and You know, thanks dandy for stepping in I'm just giving you a hard time. It's all good Stepping is You know We understand that there could even be a gender equity year issue But we're trying to solve it and I appreciate the fact that everyone is trying to pull together and make this work Um, looking at the earnings that the uh, commission has Trust is earned this year We're hoping that uh, we can find the solution Um, and I guess that's that's where we're at. That's what I'm at. Thank you Okay, um, June is there a motion to approve? Not yet There will be a motion that this luck board will vote on Can you somehow include the fact that it would be um, a one-time increase or a one-time something just so that it's Okay, I mean we can state it as an intent can't we Tom? I'll move that uh, the select board support the budget as written With the understanding that this will be a one-time request From the library commission to increase their contribution to 45 000 dollars for this year And that will make every effort to reduce it back to previous levels in the coming year We have a motion to second further discussion from the board All those in favor I Any opposed for abstentions The motion carries Thank you so much all of you Um, I just want to say, uh, thank you for your time. Um, and also I feel like we had to ask We better just give it away We appreciate as Tom said you do your jobs and also, you know, look forward to this year You know ongoing work together Thank you What a turnout from the library. Look at this and don't charge late fees or I'm gonna be And now we love it deeply appreciate it I Do that All right as we kerfuffle Away We can continue conversation in the lobby, which would be wonderful just as cold in here as it is out there And we shall move forward onto special articles Tom, are you leading the discussion on this? So we have, um It's really contained in the draft warning So it's really one of the same really good conversation So my understanding is Every single and we're starting really at article 10, which is the second page And then going down to the bottom Every single request Karen received was the exact same as 2023 With the exception of article 19 The American Legion, um When and got the petitions billed and the requisite number of signatures To be on the ballot, so you don't have the option of changing that amount or removing it Um, but every other one is the same that the conversation last year really centered around the senior center and how much of the increase Should be in the budget versus as a special article The the only other thing I've point out is there's been an informal Rule I don't know for how long but at least for a few years that Anything under $2,000 is lumped into article 10 And and maybe you want to revisit that number And if you don't that's entirely your business. I'm No opinion whatsoever on And if you want to Disponder article 10 and have separate questions for each one I'm exhausted. I'm there at march 5th for the day The questions at lisa, um, is there a reason article 15 is highlighted? Oh, sorry. No, sorry. Not that one. I thought it was me. It's the senior center It's the question about how much we put in the budget. I do have last year's and it looks like we have 20 in the budget, which would not and add up to their 39 today. Am I reading them online? 32 five Area But we'll make sure it's at the requested amount Oh, yeah, no, but I guess in terms of the division question, I guess it's the other I Having attended town meeting would support raising the informal threshold of article 10 if they are all the same amount for purposes of Packaging, um, is there this would be a moderator question. I assume someone can pull out an item I'm thinking of like our consent agenda where you essentially it's a town meeting consent agenda Here's the 15 million things and if you want to discuss one, I guess anyone can make it Um, but if they're not controversial and the same amounts and relatively modest amounts, I personally support You wanted to raise it. Alison everything in article 10 is under Under two not add to under 2000. Yeah, so all the 2000s are still there Yeah, some aren't you Yeah, I was saying if there was I am supportive of Moving more things into article 10 where they're all read and passed as a package given that I think Collectively they do all end up passing for the relatively modest amounts and as opposed to having to go through the formality Yeah, that's what I would say we could I mean we could try 2500 I guess my only note is I think informally in the past weeks that said things that are new Or different Still remain as individual articles to facilitate easier discussion So I would propose expanding article 10 To include all appropriations of up to 2500 dollars for organizations Not requesting an increase That have passed at subsequent town meeting And are not a new Was that another uh, if it needs to be oh Just a sec you have I didn't write it down because I didn't know it was a motion And and let's just um, let's keep it as a proposed suggestion If there were some more board questions, and then I'll get to the public Just shortly so I know and you had your hand up as well. Go ahead Mike I just disagree with that just for the sake of I think that Small requests or small requests, and I would just I would just spend a little bit of time I've always been a proponent of hearing from an organization of what what they do and if it's something more I think I like that 200 if it's under 2000 it gets grouped, you know, if there's going to keep on being a creep I don't mind them Tell them what they do it down. I mean, I think that's a very healthy thing to do. You know, I just don't like Just my personal opinion Anything else okay and go ahead I'm not gonna go Mike here But there's you know there's a few names of organizations in article 10 that sort of speak for themselves, right? And then there's names of organizations outside article 10 that speak for themselves and I think an increase This time sort of just makes sense because I don't see anything on here that Like I don't read American Legion. I'm like, oh, what do they do, you know, not as the example for the increase but um I think having to trench through every organization and what they do at town meeting might seem might come on So I support the increase And we could also choose another amount as well when a motion is ready to be made And you had your hand up I have Okay, uh I kind of agreed that it is nice to hear from the various companies and organizations that are requesting funds from us Maybe not every year But and it's hard for some of them to get to all the town meetings that they're Requesting funding from but I do think it is incumbent For the Members of the community who attend town meeting to hear What yes, they're they put a letter into the town of report, but uh, You know just But the other thing that then happens at town meeting is if we're requesting everyone to speak to what There isn't a representative there and then Tom Collie gets up and speaks for them. So it's an You're dead if you do You're not wrong and thank you I guess I don't disagree with Mike's point at all I I guess this comes to our broader conversation which also happens in these budgeting Was that how we got our 2023 library update because I'd love a less contentious venue in the future And so I I don't dispute that like I would love to hear from these I would say of this list I mean I'm trying to think of the amount that had a representative at town meeting last year Maybe it's the incentive. I guess I have a broader question about like should we structure a town meeting differently to facilitate those updates Um, and maybe it is holding everyone to 20 separate articles. So they can hear I'm just thinking I I steve did often speak for a lot candidly at least in my limited time in water very I'm gonna let roger speak first. I'll come back to you. Thank you. Go ahead roger Uh, yeah, I mean, I think one thing we could do would be to Ask anyone that is in Part of article 10 to come up and speak for let's say up to two minutes Whether we can run through them without having to hold a vote on each and every thing as elissa noted Almost everything passes I think the the agent question could be An interesting debate at town meeting this year Certainly, you know, an upgrade to led lighting is Certainly a great thing for them Whether they could have gone to efficiency vermont or found other ways of financing this. I don't know But uh, you know, I guess my experience has been Having to put everyone each one of those to a vote does Slow the meeting down and they get a little bit of a challenge for participants Thank you. Mike. Yeah, yeah This is a little bit about not about the two thousand dollars, but About our newest special article not that I'm very much for the legion, you know, they're requesting, you know 41 25 I'm more concerned about potential We're seeing potential creep on Is the next year the mason's going to come in is the next year, you know, different groups and It's just getting to a point where fiscally it's going to become more and more of a problem, you know You know, everyone, you know, it's mother or apple pie and chevrolet, you know people all these things do well, but You know, I would love to hear especially, you know, that something from the legion is what they need town money for versus, you know That they hold the vibe on Their own fundraising. Well, they submitted a petition and so it's in there So the details are there and in addition we did say anything that's newest separate So they'll you know, they're invited and hopefully speak, but again, it's not up to us. It'll be up to the voters. So Um I was talking about the light that levy lighting and they give the Approximate costs and why the what the request is exactly for so it was 39,000 total lack Okay I'll say and I found out in the time report, but I mean I I hear you Mike. I think it's beyond our control It's right. It's totally, you know, if they put in a petition, they can yeah, the voters get to Right. The voters will ultimately have what's gonna. Oh, why? Um, are there further questions about the special articles and I guess the warning We haven't read through the whole warning, but special articles and or are there any notions for changes and then we can Look back at the whole warning I'll propose we keep the senior air center the same because they're asking for the same amount of snip last year And we'll do it in the same structure. Okay, so we don't need to do anything formal. We'll just leave it as is Since there's no changes So in the end we're keeping it uh 2000 and under Technically it's under 2000 not 2000 and under so Because there are a few that are too big I think it's just three Yeah, I was saying if we moved it. Oh, yeah Yeah, a dollar. Well, yeah, Benny Um, I mean I'd be fine with it, but I don't care enough to go through the whole discussion all over again So I'm happy to leave it as it's big long enough So we could get the uh, if the lunch served Um, okay And continuing on in the same looking through the rest of the warning um Article I want to highlight is article eight towards the bottom of the first page The language was uh provided By bond counsel. So we know it's it's good legally approved language I want to point out that when gary came before the board um Six or seven months ago the number was three hundred seventy thousand I did a double check on the number and that remains the price for the truck but um I bumped it to 380 because it turns out Different trucks have different hose fittings. I would have assumed that was that a fire truck is a fire truck Whether it's in waterbury, vermont or tim buck two Um They have a set of adapters they want to buy for the truck So this would Yeah, it cost a little bit. It's essentially part of the truck. So I thought it belonged here Um So the number went up a little bit But yeah, that was a shock to me to learn that In fact, they're different Like different manufacturers have different hoses or hose fittings. I think different different manufacturers a different mostly different vintage It's it's a little bit of a tag. You would just assume that things in that industry would be a right. Exactly. Yeah No matter what But apparently not quite a hundred percent. Yeah, it's like the apple charger conundrum conundrum a little bit. Yeah, right Um questions or comments I think it's part of You know if you if you buy a truck from e1 They want you to buy your next truck from e1 Karen if if we could have an email sent out to all the special article folks including the ones in exit and Just saying we would like to In the event questions come up that you have a representative available at at the meeting Short and sweet. I can send it. I know it may not go anywhere But it's worth, you know at least saying if they send an appropriate time for me to tell you that green mountain transit has neither invoiced me or sent me A report for 2023 Yeah Cool, I thought what do we do just call them? Okay, they have they have an invoice for me. Yeah, they sent an appropriation letter Yeah, but they haven't been paid for last year and I'm I meant to document all the emails I sent But it's it's numerous so I can send it and most of them will respond Mike and and this would be a good time while we're talking about this Maybe not interrupting the fire truck conversation, but we need to talk about the community band I need a consensus whether inviting them or not inviting them Other one of the one of the sorry Roger No, it's legible lesion. I just we don't need to talk. We already talked about this. That's already that's already been covered so we don't need to discuss that but The community band is one of the special articles so the voters do provide them typically Can send the same email to them as to The rest of the special articles if I'm gonna send that either my proposal band or am I just inviting a representative to speak? I think if you sent My recommendation though, I'm open to everyone's opinion is that if you send the same email You send everyone else and they respond and ask about Additional you can bring that to a discussion I mean, I'm I'm one voice It's what we've talked about in the past. It's continuing with tradition Maybe the saxophonist Yeah, can we hand select who we would like to sell the saxophonist? That would be great Um, yes, and do we know who the moderator's gonna be? To some extent, yes Okay, thank you Has a Keith Wallace award winner been That is gonna be in our next agenda So let's as they're more on either the warning and or special articles Discussion questions needs Excellent. So we'll move on to So I'm just taking the draft office or signing in next week No changes Yes, no changes Can you is that great? I actually used last year since the template so I would like you to change your mind from daniel to daniel because I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding I just I don't care, but I don't know who that is That's my weight weight weight. We also have other business discussion of town meeting day format and consideration of alternative Where's the flair? Oh, it's lurking right above the date It was because we couldn't do it as an article because it could be combining The thing I just said to daniel under my breath is can we provide child care? I don't know if there's a history of their town ever doing that or I feel like it would be work I think we all acknowledge that town meeting is not as accessible of a venue and I It may have no utilization, but I guess personally I would sleep better if I knew we at least tried to Direct provide child care There's a option rec camp. There's school rec camp, but that doesn't happen I think lisa as I handle it. Oh lisa. Thank you. Um, just the national honor society chapter at harwood is doing child care for the school bond community meetings That's a day off from school for harwood You could potentially contact the advisor for national honor society and because that's one of the things that they do is community service So if they had a request they might be able to have a few of the students volunteer to work at Library town meeting to chapter Yeah, that would raise the question where but it's worth investigating. Yeah Yeah, oh, no, sorry town meeting day. We don't school. It's February break. They could they could do it at our rec building The rec building already has our rec camp in it What hours? All day The three national honor other society can use Yeah Well, if it's the district's national honor society, I'm sure we can work with the school on that I think by consensus karen is going to reach out to potential child care providers prior to the next meeting And we'll finalize that when we sign the final warning. Thank you I'll see I'll see what I can do People's and then we'll see if we can find a place and Go from there. This room will be empty. This office will be closed. They can run up and down the halls Sledding I'll see what I can do. I can't wait town meeting. I'm gonna be uh rec day camp. Um I Okay Next meeting agenda Oh highway mileage Oh, I skipped that because we because I skipped it Highway mileage certificate It's woody's memo or post it no. Oh, yeah, thanks It's your annual form. We have to simply to get about a hundred twenty thousand dollars in a typical year From the state And it's based on the mileage is here With the sign up No, I was telling kane because he was scrambling to see if he lost a piece of paper um Well, while we're doing mileage Yes, well, I just want everyone to be able to and the mileage did change a tiny bit because we had a little river road That's a post they know that it can be later. Yeah, that's going to then read out Thank you, um Okay Yes, kane my comment was going to be because we were We heard from the um housing task force, obviously and we will be looking at next next week. We'll be looking at Another issues you're adding the housing task force the appointment for someone do we want to move a Vote on their proposal to next week or do we want to push that off? May I speak to that? Joe had come in and spoken to me earlier or excuse me late last week in anticipation of tonight and asked me to Get on another agenda. I told him that this one was already Jam packed. You know, we have dog ordinance What what I thought would be a potentially long discussion about the warning turns out But anyway, I did I did place a placeholder for him on the first February got it. Okay, so it's that I can move it But he was he seemed very comfortable with that. Sure. Great. Thank you, karen Thanks kane Mike Keith will also award discussion is on there um And I I as a note karen was just talking about that and I'd love to change the language of dog ordinance to what it is Officially, which I think is animal control ordinance. Um just to be You know all encompassing We just need a majority just like borderline Yeah, we're fine with that And if if we have time we can have an agenda item about the tax panel to be denny and I have traded some emails and had some conversation about some ideas Were you asking for that? Um Yes, I think is if I don't know if roger if you guys are meeting before next meeting or not about the agenda But when you sort out the times if there seems to be a slot for adding The tax penalty convert re Uh conversation. Yeah, I don't see any problem that I know. Okay um Under ifa the last item newland flats mobile home park. Can we can we can we modify that to say newland flats mobile home park and fire protection Anything else for next meeting agenda or for future items or questions excellent Uh, then I'm gonna oh my one thing I would like to pick up at some future point, you know, it's nothing that has to be done Maybe it's something for the incoming select board But christians suggestion of having like a community kind of get get together You know, kind of a big pop luck or something like that. I think I think that has a lot of merit people get to you know, I used to walk down main street And I used to know a lot of people now. I feel like I'm almost a strange not stranger in my own town But I don't know nearly the amount of people that I did at one point and I think at least It engages some people to get for neighbors to get to know each other and I think it would be a good thing. They can come to the event on February 10 everyone community event. Um, do you want to put that and uh, do you want to put? Uh, a select board organized community event on the parking lot for future I would say there has also been interested I'll introduce you Oh, like meeting not Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes more more business. Okay. That's fun. Yeah, got it Um other parking lot or agenda items before we executive session Um, and are you raising your hand? Okay Um, one other thing. Uh, it's something eliso reminded me of last week. Um, we used to have uh, a community Thing before town meeting Uh, we're after the meeting Over at the station and the community Was invited to have a table and sort of push their wares or whatever they were doing Uh, so it was kind of a community gathering. It was held at the gym and back to school and um It was kind of fun to see What other organizations are in town and are happening because not everybody is aware of all the different Groups that are going on around this community So it's too late to plan for that this year, but keep it in mind for next year Thanks, and And you can ask the list of what else she had in mind Okay Okay No, like the boards and commissions I can find some newspaper articles that were done on it. It was every other year because it was such a big undertaking I remember currently it would be at the school It's probably been 15 years. Yeah, I was gonna say it was before my 10 year here. Well, it's almost My happening sort of a little bit at my belief energy fair. You see a lot of the different It's a similar vibe to the leak fair If you've been to the leak fair All right, I'll While we're still in public session I've been reading this and I just wanted to say this aloud Is that the most circulated Category of books this year was picture books And then the top picture book was a title I eat poop I've never read that book and I look forward to it. I I mean pick that up Is the top rated book this year Not I eat I eat to I eat Really took me through a loop there. Wow great Um heard that do we I can't wait I'm thinking about town meeting so this I was gonna pose it for but like Yes, I'm just thinking of like this library thing. It's like hybrid. Well, we continue to talk about this of like How do we get this more off do more engaging presentation at town meeting besides here's A pile of spreadsheets that is the budget So maybe it's a wall of these like like when you go to the hotel and all the brochures of things you could do So I'm saying like is it in the absence of a table. Yeah Karen is inviting representatives Do we want to say for a brochure? I would Make them real graphic. I love it You have voting Is that still workable if we did like three or four tables somewhere for folks to leave material We sort of do have that Lobby So the lobby would be the oh, yeah, and the girl scouts are normally there with cookies and things Stop for the cookies pick up a brochure Duncan Duncan stopped by a couple weeks ago Yeah, and very cursory asked if he could set up an easel or something in the lobby Yeah, and that's my question if she's inviting folks. Anyway, do we at least have a thing saying we can provide materials I know like Rachel King last year to tell me just to be there, but Um Yeah, anyway, yeah, can we add that to the invitation if you have a What like an annual report or a highlight of 2023 or a brochure of accomplishments There's a space question. I think we would say that's only if it's really I'm not going to go collect them No, no, no, no, no, no, we will set up a table and they can you could say drop them off Put them down eight thirty on the table. Yeah No one needs to man it or I can come early to Yeah, I can't actually support that. Yeah, I could too. That's fun If you have a there is a space that's always so much more than that in the lobby Right, right. So that's my but if we have two eight foot tables And nothing bigger than a eight and a half by 11 that was well if you think back last year there was A health fair that took place downstairs in the cafeteria The one of the main organizers of that was one of the nurses of the school. She no longer works there. I haven't heard anything from anyone picking up that process and continuing it so it may have been the first and last annual But anyway, uh, we could Well, I don't think that the cafeteria is necessarily the best place to put Uh for insurers you want people to see them as they come in but um, but there's a space down there as well So anybody could come and If they wanted to discuss stuff with the public, that's what that health fair was for So there were people like I don't know if Washington County Mental Health made it, but there was invites out to various organizations I think yeah keeping this very very simple of like nobody needs to stand there. No one needs to engage It's just like would you like to see what the library is doing what the legion is doing? Pick up a piece of paper or don't As long as there's room for a couple tables, but Is anyone interested in doing lunch after the meeting? I collected this in your center about it. Um, but I specifically talked to Maureen White. Um, who's the treasurer? She was gonna have to talk to the board Um, and the only thing she did say that she would recommend to the board if they do it Is that this year she would recommend doing it by donation only I don't know why maybe The money collection was an issue for them. I can't really remember I thought they always like when the grain choice did I think that was a big fundraiser for them Yeah, I think my big recollection. I think it's always been the senior center, right? That's what carla told me But I think they made it like 12 bucks and then they had to give change out and it was this kind of a new sense for them so I don't know that's just I'm just sharing what she said they would do it this year by donation only That no price listed just give a donation and get lunch So we'll see I have the question now to them roger Okay, yeah, I think we should probably take them up on it if they want to do it. Yeah Yes, thank you, bell And I'm not here because of this but as you know, I'm on crew I had a conversation with Tom last week and I know Who is going to talk about it for me tomorrow? And I have mixed feelings about this I talked to Tom and asked if there was going to be any funding for crew and he told me that He submitted to FEMA Information about all the volunteer hours that have been that have been Worked and I don't know. I think he said something like $33,000 or something like that I'm just wondering for those So Tom said if that money comes in His plan would be to give it to crew Well to go to the slack board That was not town expenditures that was pure community volunteer hours that we'll pay us so maybe Give it back to the community in a Some more matter and I think that's a good idea, but I also know how some people feel about There was nothing budgeted and something comes in and you just pass it off to somebody else. So Would it be enough? This is a question right at the name. Would it be reasonable to put on your warning? $35,000 to crew and Conditioned upon receipt of money from FEMA and then if it comes in it goes and it's Clear, we know that we have it either future select board doesn't have to agree to it um If you don't say any if I if we don't say anything about it and the money comes in then There's going to be have to be a conversation. So You don't have to decide that tonight you're going to sign your warning next week But it's just something that I thought about Two minutes ago What would curtain do with the money Well, we're raising money. I know try to help people recover from the flood. So you know paying for labor to Fix people's homes to help people who need to maybe move their electrical panel or boilers or There's a good one of things There's a listening of things that we're that we're trying to do. I think we've raised Somewhere in the $75,000 to $100,000 range right now one of them was one big grant from the community foundation So anyway, just a thought. Thank you Any follow-up on that or leave that for next week with the warning Do you have thoughts on that? Do you think you want to find a find us to it for? It's up to you. My I guess my only thought is the challenge with the FEMA money is You don't know when it's going to come in and I'm just actually Thursday or Friday signed The first it's technically a grant the flood that the flood Of July is subdivided into essentially different categories. One of the categories is called emergency measures Which is what you did before the flood so we get some reimbursement, you know, seven or eight grand for that That's the first one that's been finalized There's some other real easy projects, you know, Fiske-Winooski Street and fixing a covert and Greg Hill Road that They've had for months, and I'm just waiting on paperwork The volunteer hours, there's a lot more than $30,000 worth What my FEMA rep has said is that To the extent sign-up genius was used that if someone said they're going to show up at nine and and volunteer until noon We've got a name. We've got some documentation that makes sense The rest of it which was just tracked via excel by some of the some of the volunteers they They think that's not as strong. So so what I What my rep has said is he thinks the volunteer hours using sign-up genius will be reimbursed, which is a good clue for the future about how we want to do things the rest of it Even he won't bring to his higher ups at this stage So like the 40 hours a week of alissa me and liz for three weeks give or take Irrelevant in that count At this point we're still fighting that fight But he's also made it clear that First comes reimbursement for emergency measures and for capital projects and then for the big Debris cleanup and then volunteer hours There's a claim for Other entities that volunteered their service to help us There's a claim eventually that will be for my time all that comes seemingly much later so I have no objection to to promising The crew or whoever the the $30,000 in female money I just can't tell you if it's going to come at all or even if they signed off on it tomorrow when we'll get the money Just so that's understood Well, it complicates I guess I'm saying like I have questions about the cash flow. Do you wait till it comes in? I was wondering about roger I haven't done a deep dive on your edit is there a way to acknowledge it and then the question was for crew Are you doing a report? Have you thought about it? Did we ask you? Yeah, but I'm just I'm just thinking about if as the community's long-term recovery committee at a minimum Is it worthwhile to share that you exist your membership? I mean when I did the Transportation whatever subcommittee with barb the year before I think we put a one-pager in Um, so at a minimum, maybe it makes sense to include that and then I Don't listen gonna tell me she came in going oh, can you see if you can get a final answer on funding and instead we've created homework? so this is like oh for two, but Anyway, I Well, if we have a warning sign next Monday Then the earliest I can send a draft to the printer is Tuesday so This weekend This weekend, so I'll get my stuff to you Wednesday We'll staple it in I mean the obvious obviously the longer I wait the more stressed I get about getting the books on time so Um, we all you know I can't send until the warning's done. So that's Monday night. Do we run out in the morning? Do Is there a strong opinion on putting it in the warning for this town meeting? roger Yeah, I mean, I think that that was the intention Uh, so I'd say contingent on receipt of funds that we would put it in we would so That's the intent we can draft an article for it and just have it for next week. Okay Then that's the consensus. Okay, I was gonna say I don't want to complicate anything But I'm gonna but I'm gonna um As far as I know It was volunteer hours. It's coming in from FEMA, right? It's not Something that we're asking the taxpayers to front, right? So it is a decision by the select board what we do with those funds I don't think it needs to be on the warning for the town meeting I think we all agree. It does not need to. Oh, okay. Uh, yeah I guess in the spirit of extra $2,000 should stand up and say something if it's $30,000 are planning to do something with in some ways It's a good excuse, right, but those are taxpayer dollars I mean, it all is not good. Thank you I will also say that You're correct. I'd be shocked if the money comes in before the summer I would not be shocked if we're having the same conversation next year I would either I yeah, I don't feel strongly. I think if it feels Like they could come in before town meeting next year If there's a possibility of it 50 50 then in the sake of extra transparency It lets we can draft some language that says in the event of It will go to I don't imagine that creating a kerfuffle. They say no. Well, that's I mean that I'm that's what do we do with it then? He's my concern, but keep it. Yeah And then we make our own blind item doing the same thing in 2020 and it is a good way for crew to stand up I do think like there's I mean I should there's a Venn diagram of folks who don't know the organization exists or what they're doing might be at town meetings agree Okay, incensed So what else we want to talk about before we go into executive session. We just got so much good stuff Now, okay great I would love some help with moving us into executive session. Is it for personnel? Or it is contract contract contract contract. Oh look. Oh, yeah Are you checking me to find that you always make our executive. Oh, it is traditional No, I would like to I would like to adopt the very one which is we just say for findings Put that on the parking lot. Okay. So first I move to find that premature general public knowledge would clearly place the public body at a Yeah, so I see it's so much more complicated when you read it from the thing. Sorry Karen. I'm starting again Um, I move to find that premature public knowledge of a pending contract would clearly place the town of waterbury at a substantial disadvantage So second Everyone seconded it For the discussion all in favor Hi, any opposed or abstentions And then I move to enter executive session for the purpose of discussion of contracts and invite the municipal manager second Any further discussion all in favor I