 What up? What up? What up? I'm brand man Sean and I'm Culver and we are back with episode number 32 of No Labels Necessary Podcasts where you can catch us every Tuesday every Thursday on Apple music Spotify YouTube here on YouTube of course where we got it started anywhere that you listen to your podcast when we talk about cash content and Music entrepreneurship all of course with that music industry lanes cuz that's what we do y'all now as always We like to start off with a little bit of advice and today The advice is coming from a very interesting place because I got a question for you right Not releasing music. Is it stupid? Is it stupid not to release music because that's what this guy thinks we're about to find out All right, so let's look at the perspective on it before y'all judge DJ pain one shout out to DJ pain one Let's switch up that perspective People get so upset when you tell them to put beat songs and content out consistently They cry quality over quality take your time We know damn well producers recording artists paralyze themselves with the illusion of Perfection not releasing music. It's stupid All right, okay, I think I think now with a little bit more context. I can agree with that situation Okay, like in what way and artists producers credit in general really getting themselves over like he said that illusion of perfection because I Think the the caveat is in the artist head is like hey, this thing isn't ready to be released yet I don't think it's good. I don't think it's great. I don't think people like it Whatever, right? Right, but then from the consumer side How many times have we seen artists be wrong, right? You put something out that you didn't think with us was that good and The audience loves it and because of that you got great things because of it and how many times have we seen the inverse? Right? Have we seen somebody take forever to work on the thing just to put it out and everybody's like, hey I hate this. I wish you you've never done this and then you realize dang I wasted five six months perfecting this thing that people don't even like so What I've come to believe in from I was I you actually kind of put me on to this a couple years ago But you know, we always tell artists to kind of take like the fail fast almost like tech approach to it, right? Put out as much You know quality and your perspective Things out as much as you can so you can gauge the marketplace so you can then make those changes over time That will lead you to Perfecting whatever the thing is that you're putting out like I believe in that so in that context Like if you're an artist trying to like figure that out I do think not releasing music is stupid If you're an artist that has a lot of those things figured out and like there's some creative strategy behind not releasing a lot You know, you built yourself to the point to where you can do a bit different of a release model I could kind of understand you know in those instances why not but yeah put it like the average artist They're like, yeah, I have to agree, you know what? So there's some sentiment shared in the comments of this thread that I want to share before I give my perspective on it So let's see a couple of things that people were saying you see that It's on you if you what does that say if you choose one or the other Yeah, one or the other in my opinion Both are required if you want to stand out quantity and quality are required if you want to stand out I agree with that. All right You can't just have a bunch of bullshit put out and expect people to like it So we know at some point you have to get the quality Yeah, there has to be some quality in this thing So we can't ignore that right but people use that as a crutch So even if you have to take a few months break a few months break to create music content and plan You can put out music and content Support your music consistently at a high quality. Okay, so he's basically saying stack off of the stack up and then drop Okay, I like that perspective that thought right because even Russ I believe he said that when he did his whole high quality, then he stacked up Yeah, hello music ready And then you keep recording to the process so it's not like you're creating a new song or week That's going to come out the next week. Yeah, which I think as well a lot of people got that confused I'm a lot of people got that strategy confused with that and like it it makes sense right because as artists More than likely they're making dozens of songs a month, you know, like most of my artist friends I have made a lot of music. I'm right, right? It did to only have to put out one the next month You know saying so you really think we have a lot of years of music stacked up that could keep you on So that's another reason why I believe in it's like bro. I put it out There's two other good perspectives I see here So this other person said the more beats you make the better you get the faster you become the more But you release quality so he's also talked to the producer the more your opportunity to create for yourself So I think there's something that I know a lot of artists face when You haven't released something you start to think about that thing Yeah, keep putting that energy into that thing because it's not out yet So let me do one last edit another edit So it's hard to create space for new creativity if you haven't put it out Which I think is a good argument for putting certain things out and just getting it off your plate So you have a new creative blanks plate to work from and then you have the idea of reps the more times That you do it the better you get you should get right now Hard part of seeing yourself at start at zero because it's really vulnerable place to be at But that's just ego and your ego is was actually keeping you from reaching your goals if ego release your shit says Fred Pacey music and then there's one other one that said I think he said somebody's getting mixed up. Let me see Okay, there we go. Sir Poseidon said people get this misconception of quality quality doesn't mean To work on ten songs a year or just put out ten songs a year quality means pick the best that you have But to be honest even that concept is not real because you never know what can take off So he's acknowledging some difficulty with even that as an artist if you're not recording at least one song a week You slacken that's 52 songs at the end of the year. Okay now The specifics of what an artist should be doing in terms of slacken or not You know, that's that's beyond me. It's all right. Yeah artist world. Yeah, you don't talk about that Right, but one thing that I've noticed is this idea of perfection is something that a lot of artists and people in general use The high insecurity. Yeah, right because if you don't think it looks good Then there's something insecure about your work that you're trying to resolve You aren't confident in that work yet. Yeah, all right. So if I'm not confident in this work I'm gonna keep changing and I'm gonna keep changing and if I'm afraid of what people's judgment is gonna be when I get it out There then again, I'm also insecure cuz I'm afraid of what that feedback might look like people not liking it People saying why don't you change this or it should have been this or I like the last song better Whatever the feedback might be but it's hiding this insecurity with your lack of confidence in either the work itself Or just an insecurity beyond even the music of having that stuff out there being in that vulnerable state So people say I'm a perfectionist cuz how many people Have you heard say I'm a perfectionist My life pie team Being sarcastic mom did us you how long you've been talking to these artists, bro. Like, okay I Exactly like well, I would say ones I heard saying I believe them. That's that's the point Yeah, that's the point a lot of people say I'm a perfectionist There's very few people that are a perfectionist and people don't understand Perfectionism can be a crutch. So there's specific roles Like even if you look at a company and to build something well, you might want somebody who's a perfectionist in a specific role if you look at a Content system like a newspaper, right? Oh, yeah, let's just stick with a newspaper. You have your chief editor Right who might be looking through all your shit and they're noticing all the grammatic goal errors They're noticing these things that don't attach well or you missed a complete word in a sense You want that person to have that Oversight, yeah, you leverage that perfectionism at scale But all the writers on the ground they you want them to not be incompetent, right? You just throw some sloppy shit and waste the editor's time, right? But they're not don't necessarily they don't necessarily have to be as much of a perfectionist as that chief editor, right? And then that chief editor Isn't going to be the person who's marketing branding putting all the content out there making sure the rest of the Newspaper runs like it in each run. That's a specific role. So there's roles for the skill set of Editing or perfectionism it could be utilized but outside of the space that it best works You're literally holding up the system. Yeah. Yeah, that's what people miss and I a lot of people say that shit It's like one of those like, huh, what's one of your weaknesses? When they're in a job interview Yeah, I'm a perfectionist, you know, I just like things to be well and I'm just so it's like I ain't a real weakness That's what you're trying to flip it into. No breath. It's slow. What's your real weakness? You slow You're not confident. You're not able to move forward and you get caught up on things to the point They have a diminishing return putting the Like a dot over that I out of a paper that has 20,000 words versus putting it out now has a very very low You know benefit. Yeah, so that's the type of thing that I think people artists need to get away from that idea of imperfection Because one like many people acknowledge We don't even know what someone's gonna love and what somebody's gonna take to two a lot of times And perfection is what makes it relatable or hit the best. Yes, you know, and then three a Lot of times it's insecurity and you can acknowledge it for what it actually is and you can start to move through it but this whole idea of perfectionism, there's it's hard to flip that and truly see it as a A Crutch when we use that term with there's such a positive stigma to it Yeah, so if you keep telling yourself that you're just gonna be comfortable in that space and you need to be uncomfortable You need to say hey look man, you're being slow You're not getting stuff out, right? And how can I do this with a certain level of quality in a certain timespan so I can make progress because nobody Like who's doing stuff on a high level Has the time to do every single thing to the extent that they want it to be out Yeah, cuz to a couple your points one fan start to feel it it goes back to that concept We had about Sam Smith, right fans are black down like he put no music out in a while Like what's what's going on? That's all right minute to loss dimension returns You know, you have to think about if this thing is already a 95 What extra value that's getting into a hundred percent get me right value saying like this Is that five percent gonna make a significant impact? If so, you know that five percent makes like minor like, you know Quality of life changes or something then like more than likely it's not worth it Right, and then just last thing I want to touch on my ex. I think you know, this is great Is that the relatability of sometimes letting the imperfection be in the music, right? And I was thinking about it as you said it bro Like Lil Wayne's lighter flick at the beginning of his music in the mixtape days I'm a thousand percent sure the first time it happened. It was a happy accident Right like he's in the booth sparking up the blunt. That's probably about to wipe it And it was like no no wait like leave that you understand that that was kind of cool You know saying that's kind of fire and brand look at what that shit did for him like brand wise Like I'm a thousand percent sure that was not on purpose. You understand like this prize That's a that's a major example, but oh, you know another good example. What's up? What's the song? Is it more bomba about check with yeah That shit bitch that was Really fucked up. Yeah, boy. I forgot that part of the song how it goes It's the other one he had Little shit was that shit was something like that one of the shit it goes like fuck shit Yeah, because like apparently like the beat stop coming through his ear or something like that. Yeah Kept it in and made the whole song. Yeah And it's a lot of songs out there that like that We're like y'all will be surprised like y'all could get some of the stories behind some of your favorite artist You'd be surprised at how many of these things like happy accidents Let me take a quick second to say if you're an artist trying to blow your music up or if you're a manager music professional in general Trying to help an artist blow their music up I have something that's a game changer for you and it's completely free as you may know We've helped multiple artists go from zero to hundreds of thousands of streams We've helped multiple artists go from hundreds of thousands to millions of streams chart on billboard go viral all of that stuff And we've now made the way we've branded multiple artists and helped them go viral Completely free step-by-step in Brand man network. All you have to do is check out brand man network comm you apply It's completely free, but the thing is we're not gonna let everybody in forever So the faster you apply the better your chance of getting accepted brand man network comm check it out Back to the video with that being said The next topic Twitter is trying to become YouTube. It's an argument that people are making and I think it's very interesting But Twitter is trying to become YouTube and how is that happening? Twitter is now Offering monetization for creators. Okay, about time you can get paid to tweet Okay now Look tweets are far less work Oh, yeah, depending on who you had that's true. Yeah, that's that's that's true But I could imagine it's probably somebody who could go crazy in this new system, which will break down Just by tweeting they they tweet so easily and flow so smooth with it Yeah Imagine being able to tweet and create arguments because they meet to me. This is gonna create An environment where it makes even more sense to do polarizing troll type post Because all I gotta do is tweet something out and get one community mad at me all of a sudden Monetizing the hate monetizing the hate, baby. Let's go. So let's get a little specific with some of the details That Elon Musk Twitter will share ad revenue for creators that appear in the reply threads ads that appear for plot threads All right, which is interesting that is specific to you So on the regular feed, no, but in my specific reply thread Yes to be eligible though the account must be a subscriber of Twitter blue verify And I'm a caveat that little caveat. I don't know how I feel about that caveat. Give it a fact that All right, $8 a month. I got to pay $96 a year So I'm already in the negative. No other platform are they charge you to then Make money back the way that's true But I mean, but they also have much harder criteria to get the monetization you to monetization criteria is pretty crazy Instagram's monetization criteria aren't even like super clear. They just kind of like give it to you one day Instagram to be honest Like I look at that that $8 a month like the parking pass you got to pay for it You're nine to five. You know, that's no different than that You got it. You got to park at the job to get to the job to make money, you know, so that's fair Okay So then it comes down to how much money is going to be made That's what's really right. We don't know for sure yet. They haven't stated it might be out by the time we post this but That's gonna be meaningful because it isn't really hard to make $96,000 a year It's not something that you should look at for that but we already know that You shouldn't just be looking at the content you create and monetization dude YouTube ads Tiktok any of these creator programs to be your primary income anyway. Yeah, right, but Back to Twitter becoming YouTube competing with you to Obviously YouTube has been Number one by far in terms of helping creators monetize. Yeah, we always say YouTube wealth is is different wealth than in other platforms You went on there the numbers look crazy is getting worse Per se because of YouTube making the changes with shorts and now you make less money from long-form content all that stuff right fair enough, but The fact that when you got a million subscribers on YouTube, that's a real a million subscribers versus Tiktok Instagram You're still trying to figure out how to make money. Yeah, but just we have people on YouTube plenty of them Just living off of platform ad revenue. Just yeah, all right So that's a different type of money. And I think that pressure is something that every platform is continuously filling from YouTube so eventually we get to this point. Yeah, Tiktok creator fun Instagram creator fun and I think snapchat got one snapchat Yeah, Twitter because they're like if we're gonna compete and gonna incentivize people It can't just be views because people still gotta live it has to be the money Yeah, right like Dionne Sanders said must be the money now with that being said This is why creators as a whole do better than artists Because there's more people That are creators than artists artists is just a subset. Yeah, right So we keep seeing innovations in this conversation of pushing How much creators make forward like that conversation stays out there We keep seeing this evolution on the platforms and artists benefited from it too because they are content creators But just being artists that doesn't affect most of the population You know, I'm saying it's a very specific niche Has that traditionally more just a record label relationship and now it's evolved where more people are aware What's going on inside the artist side of things? But this creator thing it affects everybody everybody seeing the numbers They're trying to achieve that themselves. So that pressure is always going to keep them ahead of the game and artists aren't going to necessarily see As much progress as quickly that's just kind of is what it is Yeah, except for the ones that you know, like we've always said kind of at least implement elements of the creator Journey into what they're kind of doing because like they're like A lot of artists who walk that line really well And I think that most new artists need to learn how to walk that line because What you are realistically seeing is that hey, you could possibly make money from your twitter Your youtube your instagram your tiktok before you start making money off of your music endeavors, right? So you're making money while you grow making money to do this these things that you have to do anyway Well, I think it's interesting about this is I don't know if you remember but that was a conversation we had like an early episode about It seems like these platforms are taking Making platform stars a lot more seriously, right? So we talked about how tiktok seems like it's doing certain things to boost up their creators. So, you know tiktok I guess star can look just as popping Just as you know mainstream So now that makes me think about all the platforms where you don't even think about traditional stars coming from those platforms Right like a twitter a facebook like I can't think of a twitter influencer Right like someone who like pop Just because of twitter. I can't think of I'm sure I'm wrong. I'm sure somebody's out there, but I can't think of one person. Yeah, like it's Politics that's probably the niche you see most leaning on twitter politics. Maybe news, you know saying intellectual types Yeah, but like there isn't like a the same way I could think of a God girl that's like a tiktok influencer that that pop because of the tiktok medium I can think of the same thing with instagram I think same thing with youtube I cannot think of one with twitter Um, so to me it feels like this is their effort to change that You know, it's kind of like the streaming platforms like every streaming platform once their X platform original right every day want their netflix original or the hulu original the amazon It's like I look at influencers like that. This child in milio is a tiktok original You know saying the same way that I don't know zeus is a youtube original the same way you can maybe say like Aiden Ross is a twitch original right like I think these platforms are seeing that we have to incentivize more of these creators to want to be our platform stars You know saying so that the the good will of the brand can spread and more credit will kind of want to come work over here so Um, so I mean, I think it's a good step forward for twitter one that if you had asked me wasn't that necessary Because I don't think I've ever heard the argument about getting tweets monetized I feel like I've never heard anyone plan about it. So it feels like they've worked themselves into a Interesting hole. This is that meme Where it says no one twitter Drops monetization for content creators So it's like now you got to join the battle of pan people and what comes with that and nobody was really looking for that From twitter, but I'm interested to see how they handle it a long term. You know what I'm saying We will see we gonna see we will see now in other news NFTs for music are not dead yet And we can use rihanna as proof of it. So actually technically it's not rihanna And you'll see exactly what I mean By this story right here. So fans I'm gonna get my money. That's the headline kind of point. But you know Deputy drops royalty shares in rihanna's bitch better have my money now. What exactly does this mean? I'll read through it. All right. So the company another block is reviving Up to drop shares. No, it's revving up to drop shares and yet another iconic track The royalty nft platform is working with maverick producer named deputy to grant fans access to a portion Of his streaming royalties from rihanna's bitch better have my money in his very first nft project Starting at 5 p.m. Tomorrow just a few days before rihanna's long-awaited super bowl halftime show People will be able to buy it now the purchase price Was about like 210 dollars if I remember correctly Yeah, there we go with the platform offering 300 nfts at 200 dollars So That's something to come back to a piece with each giving holders a portion of 0.0033 percent of streaming royalties bitch better have my money is of course on one of Another block's biggest drops That's a weird name. Another block's biggest drops less than six months So let me just summarize this because they got a lot of weird work in here At the end of the day This guy owns his portion of the song. He was the producer of the beat right the fact that He was able to give this very small portion because I bet he still owns plenty of right But then create this branding idea around it use rihanna's name like you mentioned earlier But Still provide value to the fans. It's something that shows why this is significant because if you matter to your fans Something like this is still going to be meaningful. Like I would have bought this for myself And I probably would have gotten one for my girl. Just say, yeah, I know you love rihanna I got you a little ownership of her song Yeah, you know how people buy stars and stuff like that and name it after I got you someone investment Now that being said It would take about 15 years to make your money back With the estimates the projection was like, I think what was it was 15? No So you would make 6.5% each year on that investment based on current streaming projections So that's around 13 dollars per year take about 15 years and make that 210 dollars back So it's less of an investment more of a sentiment. Yeah, right but That's what I think a lot of the conversation around nfts will have to be in the future It has to be more sentiment That investment and most of the problem around the scam culture, etc Is getting people to see it as money like, oh, yeah, this is gonna be an investment You get you buy this from me and then you're gonna be able to sell it at that next value and everybody's coming in for that And that's what creates The gold rush Mess around and find some pyrite instead of go get rich fast culture That ultimately ends up crashing it ends up in a lot of unhappy broke folks. So Switching I like this to this idea where they even map out clearly Hey, it's gonna take 15 years to make your money back that takes away that idea of someone Thinking about it that way. Yeah, right. It's like, hey, do you want this just to have a piece of this moment in time? one of her biggest tracks maybe your favorite track from rihanna or just You know a piece of your favorite artist that type of conversation I think we'll have less than value in an nft space. Yeah, I agree because That was always kind of the thing with me with the nft space was everyone was like you said selling that nft is like a gold rush Hey Now hold on to an x amount time you'll make x return on it But just because I bought a couple of nfts and personally my favorite nfts are the ones that I don't really see any Like value or like growth of value from I just like them right and I viewed them almost as As like a collectible, right? No different than me buying some exclusive merch item from the artist or some t-shirt or like tour item or something. So I look at entity like that and to your point, like you said, I think This will be What makes nfts even more approachable on like a consumer side because there's still like a lot of consumers for all the Arts that have been pushing it um and and still trying to push it They have to realize they're in the bubble and there's still a lot of general consumers who just are super skeptical of it I know because I was just I was talking to one yesterday. So it's this conversation. Yeah question my head, bro I gotta gotta gotta gotta all right homie. Um I just hate the ideas of nfts and what it's doing to the visual art community. It's a whole other conversation But you know what I'm saying, but those people still exist So it's gonna take things like this where it's like how I do see the sentiment of value in this So get me over there. This is a scam hump so that I can then buy it to then see like, oh, this isn't that bad Even that goes back to twitter Right because you want to shine these success stories. Yeah, so the artist three loud dropped In 2021 he raised about 16 million dollars All right from him from this type of process and he since paid out 132,000 to fans, you know, so that sounds good now. How many fans that's spread across? I don't know But it sounds good to share those big numbers. Yeah, and it makes it sound attractive from all sides, right the fan the artist et cetera And when I say twitter and bring that in and why they're Why they want to find that star like what you said Is because when you have that star to say this represents us, this is us It inspires other people to try All right, it's the marketing. Yeah, you would have called it the pyramid or something It is all right if I could say you could be successful. It's America the American dream Everybody believes they could do it and then at some point, you know, you have a lot of people who aren't doing it But they're at least committed to the dream. Yeah, and that's still Building the the perception of it live by even trying exactly They're showing it could be done Which means now that it's not their fault or the system's fault It must be your fault because some people are doing it. It's that entire scheme, right? Yeah, which You know, we gotta get it, right? So That's kind of what the nft world did at scale and it's still going to do that in some ways but if people could focus a lot more on the value from a From just the like I said sediment the value of the artist's self Yeah, then I think people will be better the art and the artist because like you said Maybe you literally just like this. Why the hell do you buy prints and you put on your wall? Yeah, you don't do that like a Picasso and say oh, it's an investment Most art that people buy is because they like it and they don't expect to return on it But nft brought that conversation in because of course, you know, there's nothing that triggers people outside of like fear and violence it like the potential to make some money, right? So I get how it got to where it is and I know that it was intentional. It was definitely intentional But there is still going to be utility Before we switch to this next topic, which is really really good topic because artists record labels, there's still a lot of struggle and We're going to share a snippet of an artist basically straight up saying She got shelved having why it affected her career Before we get to that, I want to get a little bit of a tidbit from you of that artist saying NFTs are messing up the visual artist community. I want I want to understand his argument I mean, I don't completely understand the argument because Let me let me think back to it pretty much They felt like the nft space in terms of art is controlled by like elitist artists, right those artists who come from Wealthier backgrounds for whatever reason have the money to invest in The way many sound like the stuff you need to put out nft and I don't know a lot about putting the nft out Um, I haven't been following the space super heavy But I personally don't feel like the process is like super super difficult from what I've seen on like Opincy in a couple different places that like have these templates and walkthroughs that break it down for you So that argument was the competition with elitist, you know, which I think from a creation standpoint They don't have a point. I think from a marketing putting it out of that perspective standpoint Most of the nfts that do do great The people behind it back and they got money, right? It is like a circle jerk between a group of frames Essentially in most cases. Yeah, and then other than that Like I said, I didn't really get the argument because the rest of the argument was like, oh, what's my stills my work That was my stills your work you make now people still art now. You know, so that don't change nothing um Something along the lines of not respecting like traditional Cultures. I was like, we had digital artists at least two decades at this point niggas still buying paintings and drawings and shit off the street You know something that's not true And what was the last thing I think last thing was just more about like Spreading artists out across different mediums like he felt like, you know, the world is shawing the force artists to learn these different mediums when they should It's just crazy as I'm saying so a lot of some music artists argument. It's actually wild It just clicked with me. Well, yeah, like they're like it's forcing them to have to learn all these different mediums when they just want to Be artists and create I'm like It's always gonna be the world, you know what I'm saying We've already talked about this we've already talked about this and I'm glad and I'll ask you this because I wanted artists to hear Other artists yes, right and other spaces Say That exact same thing the arguments that they're making everybody feels this way So it's not just y'all don't feel attacked because you can go in another space and you'll probably feel just the same Or somebody it's gonna feel the same about you going into their space Everybody has a complaint. That's not something that could be focused on but I think the argument for the idea of a lead is or these Communities that are in the know It's fair, but that also Disapates the rest of the argument because it's like, yo, well if these people are focused here. That means most of the people That have to do with your audience Probably aren't even in this space. So keep performing as normal. Yeah, that's all right You know what's forcing you to get on there right now Yeah, to me it came back more so to the argument of community because it's like well Yeah, you're right Like you know, like if you want to be doing tens of millions off your nft Yeah, you're going you now you bumping shoulders with some people got some serious money You just want to sell 15 collectibles to your your audience that likes your shit like that's not going to affect anything you have going on You know, like none of your audience. I'm like, uh, sure, which I get that collectible artwork But I just dropped 25 bands on the nft last now like this probably not your audience You know I'm saying saying those things and doing that thing So there's still this growing group of people who you can capitalize off of And some of them who you can only capitalize off of because they're only thinking about it because you're doing it You know what I'm saying? Like that's what got me into nft. These were like there were specific artists And not even just music artists like visual artists and music artists that I like that I saw doing nft projects that made me go like, okay, let me like figure this space out like my first nft was a Prank when there's artists in the line that's from Atlanta like you know saying I bought a lot of his stuff. So I Well, I'm not you know I'm saying I wasn't I had dropping 50 bands on the nft But he got me you know, he got me to spend like I think I maybe bought his nft like 300 or something like that I'm saying um So that was the argument I made to the art home And like if you've done all the things that we tell you to do or no people like me tell you to do You've built a community Nothing you just said matters And if you haven't done any of those things and all of that stuff does matter You know what I'm saying like you're right like now Now you're trying to it's just to me It's the same argument of like the underground artists wanting to compete with The major label artists right like you're looking at all the resources they have access to All the things they they could possibly get done and you're thinking like I can't do it unless I'm able to either do it at that level Or be able to compete with someone at that level But to your argument it's like no because they have this whole area of here Captured and no one's focusing on all the people down here That means that there's room for to make money up all the people down here Because all these people are looking up at this thing and that's making them want it even more You know I'm saying so you even benefit but they can't afford that thing right like I said all of us saw What's that the the eight nft that was going crazy at some point everybody in the world saw that shit, bro like everybody saw that everybody A lot of people didn't have money for that shit, but that made a lot of people interested in mts That would now go like okay cool. I'm not dropping a meal on a picture of a monkey But I'll go give my favorite artist Lou who would ever $50 for this nft or something exclusive cover art you put out right well Like I said the artist I like I'll go pay 300 for this exclusive nft print. That's some shit. He's not making real life, right? Same same shit, you know, let me ask you this. Okay. There's a popular car That has stars Okay on top, you know what car I'm talking about. Yeah What's it called? Damn, they just put me on the spot. Where's the Rolls Royce? Is it the Rolls Royce? No, it's not the Rolls Royce. It's the um I don't know man. I don't know the name. I just know it They don't put me on the spot, bro. You know, blew my whole spot up, bro I can never claim to be a car and dude. I can never flip that brand even try to play it off. All right I'm gonna put him on the screen. All right No car sponsorships for me No car brand deals Oh, man, it's the most popular app I'm sorry as soon as you said I'm like, uh, I cannot think of some of it right It's just that you just didn't say you said the brand you didn't say the name All right. This is where your confusion came in. So it's not just the Rolls. Uh, it's all the Rolls Royce It's actually multiple. Okay. So the phantom the wraith and The ghost which the ghost I actually personally I'm not the biggest car like when it comes to Rolls Royces I actually don't like none of them So but I saw it never quite understood what the ghosts like what made that one so special But anyway, the whole point of it, right? So what's that car called? Many people know it But it's the Rolls Royce brand people see this car Have you ever seen a Chrysler 300? You use that same model, right now You familiar with Gucci you familiar with Louis There's levels above that for those who don't know but then there's also coach There's also guests. There's all these other brands That ladder exists for a reason. Yeah, right? And that's the point you're making I can't afford this NFT Art at this level, but I still want to have an NFT. So let me go find something That can allow me to still feel like I'm in the game. Yeah, all right I'm gonna pay 50 for this one 100 for this one a thousand whatever I can afford I can't pay 100k, but I could pay 5k. I could pay 500 I could pay 5 hours. Cool. So That's the whole argument for growing market share. That's really what that's called business typically If somebody's number one and they're extremely dominant in the market They're not always looking to monopolize and get rid of all competitors To some extent you begin to want competitors because they help grow the market share So you stop trying to grow your company You just try to grow the market because as the market gets bigger It creates more space for you right and more Customers that allow for more growth. It's just like being Spotify but Your way you are right now And nobody's close yet What's the gap? A lot of people still aren't actually streaming music Yeah, maybe 30 but 3 percent of the american population that's streaming music at this moment in terms of like Oh being a part of a dsp and all that So with that being 6 I remember it was only like four months ago. I asked my dad About something on Spotify. He didn't know what Spotify was and I just said it matter effectively They had to educate him on Spotify that through the whole conversation off and why I thought everybody knew what Spotify You know, this is 2022. You know what I'm saying? So it just started to click and then you start looking at statistics Still everybody's not like most of the world Is not on streaming platforms like that, right? Yeah, so You want because it's a completely different behavior. You're still competing with old ways of consuming music So you want to grow the idea of consuming music through that specific mechanism Because the more people get used to that now they're in the game and now I can say hey, I'm better than them But if they're just against the idea altogether, then I can't do shit about it That's a tall ladder to climb and it gets really expensive. So you start to want competitors But that same idea is why what you said, right? When there's somebody at the top, right? Yes, there are these elitists and other people that you're competing with but they're still going to be an entire marketplace that Doesn't like the art doesn't connect whatever whatever culture subset that is Can't afford whatever they're offering and that's where you come in. He's like, hey, yeah I'm better than x y and z because of this or I know you're missing this. It's just because marketing messaging, right? Yeah, so yeah NFTs like, you know they They got uh, I don't want to use that word, but they They got exploited and we already knew that was going to come the period of time where people had to take a step back But slowly but surely the value's still going to come back and people need to put it in the right frame of reference So it's not going to be the The thing that people thought it was I don't even want to get into speculating what it's going to be If I want to get to this next topic that's even more important because there's an artist that left the biggest record label in the world Why did she do this? Why did she force her way out? Well, I don't know go ahead and play this clip so she can speak for herself I signed to the biggest record company in the world still is it's universal republic and I just got lost in the shuffle you know, they had Post Malone Drake Taylor Swift Nicki Minaj and I wasn't on that level. So they were just like, okay We're gonna shelve you until something miraculous happens but it was so incredibly difficult to not be able to release any music and still just be like spinning my wheels so I ended up Asking them to let me go and they graciously did because by that point I was about 2.5 million dollars in debt and they did not have to let me go They could have kept me there and helped me there But luckily they did let me go and then I started Building out an independent career and licensing my songs in different territories and really seeing More connection and success that way. So if you are an artist a new artist I really Just strongly encourage you to build Everything you can on your own until you just need them to like, you know Put you on snl or something because if you expect a record company to take you from zero to ten or even five to ten Um, you're you're really putting all of your control into their hands Also, I just want to stress that you don't need to Be at ten like you can have a very fine career at a five or a four or six And julie is she preaching man. She she's saying a lot of stuff and it's coming from real experience like 2.5 million dollars in debt experience. Yeah, you know what I mean? But it's a lot of wisdom A lot of wisdom, right? This is one of the biggest problems that I see artists do though not I'm not even saying her but it just reminded me that Artists get so caught up in going to majors and going to teams that have all these dope artists there When you don't realize If you're not on those artist level the incentive to work on you and for you is not necessarily there Those are our roadblocks. You got a Bow that room and artists if y'all don't know artists if y'all haven't looked in the mirror artists are selfish They're like, yo, what you doing doing all that work for him? Why is he on that playlist and I'm not on that playlist They started looking at other people on the label trying to figure out that y'all making moves y'all making progress But you still haven't responded to me or or my project or my single just didn't it didn't hit the way it needed to All this is happening. So If you're feeling that way and you might go through something like that Imagine an artist that has 10 times more leverage doing that and then there's multiple of those artists that are doing that But hey, I'm in this system and they got all these people on the team So they should be able to get a feature for me with these different types of artists Or they should be able to help me with all these moves if the incentive isn't there a lot of times you're better off Going with a team where you are They're in primary priority. Yeah, that's what any labels and stuff started shining exactly. That's where any label started to shine because You being their priority is what's going to help you in your career And I know this looks tough. Oh, you gotta build something up versus I could join something They have all these different resources, but what's the the outcome at the end of the day? Even if you If you hit and you see some progress If you're not the main priority and they want you to be the biggest thing possible because it's also incentivized for them to make you the biggest thing possible Why wouldn't I just be happy with just taking you to level six because I already got some 10s And the work I would have to do taking my attention off the ball It's easier to keep this 10 at 10 than it is to go take you from six to 10. Yeah, but I like you being under six Yeah, you know, I mean six makes me money. Yeah, six makes me money. We're in the space I'm good with that, but you aren't good with that because you want to be a 10. So it's really about finding a team that has the abilities but are not in a place where They have that much going on for whatever reason and that looks different there could be There's like these execs that leave a label and they're now they're just starting So they've done this before plenty of times and they have all kind of relationships And they're in some kind of partnership and they do this but because of where they are They're focusing on somebody new and you could be that first Mike project for them, right? It's like early on when jz Who came president of def jam the rihanna? It was a really really big deal for him. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's not that Um, obviously rihanna wasn't rihanna And who she became anyway. She she didn't have that in her, but It was really priority in comparison to what that would look like after having the rihanna and those things and jz Not being a new person, right? Yeah, again him being new. I'm trying to prove myself I'm starting up this new company looks way different. So if y'all can find teams and people like that in the industry That's something to look out for I'm not saying never do Any of these companies that have somebody on their team because maybe they're just one person Or maybe even two artists and then you can fit in some other way somehow, right? But especially your demographics overlap All right Have become competition for resources Competition for resources. There's all these different things where People like to look at people winning. That's the biggest thing people everybody wants to be on the winning team But don't understand what being on a winning team looks like Third string third string baby because they already got a pack roster You go to golden state warriors and you're gonna have to give up something All right, you you might not have the ball in your hand as much because they got Steph Curry Draymond Green Clay Thompson They had kd for a period. It's like, you know, you go to a team like that I got the ball less in my hands and I might win more but the difference is In the art side that doesn't mean you win more. Yeah on the sports side That means yeah, I got a ring and I probably did less work to get it on the art side. That just mean I didn't get a ring Yeah So that's the problem. You can't take them entirely everywhere per se You want confident people you want good people people who did shit, but Going to a pack roster is overrated. Yeah, I think the other big thing she touched on too which was I know was a huge opening experience for me when we learned it was that The smaller artists that assigned to major labels have to do the same amount of work that artists who aren't signed to major level All right, so I know I personally learned that lesson in like 2019 I think 2019 when I first ever got um A major label client and we had we had a good amount that year right and I remember us working with this one Like smaller, I don't want to say the label one smaller major label act I just remember like being on the calls every week like listening to their marketing manager And you know having the budget conversation. It's like man like you artists that signed to this Major entity you look no different than this 3 p.m. Call I have with his artists from backfuck or nowhere with you know, I'm saying X amount of dollars in his bank account. And so what that taught me Was that for newer artists? Well, well for established artists or artists that maybe have some momentum already What the label does for you and what that building looks like for you is much different than the artists that has Is new that just signed to that label When you are new and you just signed to a label you the only difference between you And an unsigned small act is that if something Magical where to happen for you there's a building of people that can help you take advantage of it versus the small artists Let's say let's say both artists got a viral moment. All right. So the major label label gonna Ideally kick into motion start putting things together right all right without a label He or she has to start figuring shit out. Right. Well, what do I do without the next? But until that happens everything else about the process is exactly the same that look man If i'm a label Like if my label my record label can talk. Yeah, right the record label would say We don't make magic. We channel it. Yeah, that's fair. You make the magic. Yeah We just Yeah, help that magic go into places channel into new places because One you're the artist you're the product right and two No one ever believes me when I say this because obviously comments Labels cannot create momentum. Yeah, we cannot create momentum. This is me still speaking as a label All right, we can't create the magic However, we know what to do with the magic All right, we know how to make that shit go to another level Another level keywords another level. You gotta get on a level though Like we can't take it to its first few levels and the moment artists get that And it starts to make sense especially when you look at things today There was a time I think some of that's the dissonance where a label did Control so much part of the process and they even were more a part of making the magic Right or at least creating the infrastructure for that magic to be made. But now we're in today and That that problem is Like you people we say that and I think every time we say that people hear Like all labels don't do nothing or labels don't do nothing for you in a completely bad way but When you look at some of these agreements it just makes sense as well All right, like that's your partner. The problem only comes when you expect me to do that and I don't do it but My assumption Is you understand what this actually is? That's that's the problem. It seems like with a lot of these labels because They're like, well, this is what we do Right and this is what we always do across all these situations. I didn't tell you I was going to do that I think that gap though is the reality is no that is what labels do That's how they're supposed to function in today's age. However They're people that are selling the dream so hard. They don't make it clear that that's not what they do That's a part of it. Yeah, I think some of it too is just like like Adaptions right like if I'm a label, okay, and I don't know let's think of the artist of yes the year right 1950s some some smooth singing young book that I found on the The streets of mississippi or some shit, right? This motherfucker probably don't know nothing about music more than likely not had any serious formal training so I think at that time development was par ori because Like we had to walk this person through the route or they just wouldn't be able to do it You fast forward to to to today Now only are there is that information and resources on the internet that are going to take advantage of There are also different entities in between ground zero and major label that will also help you figure all this stuff out So I'm looking at life. I'm a label and I know that it's possible that by the time someone gets to me To where it makes sense. I don't even have to do anything and I know that because I've seen it I've signed or is that already came in with a content team and had a booking agent and had toured, you know I'm saying 20 different cities You know saying already had artists come in that already had a million subscribers on followers on tiktok Half of me and subscribers were generating 50k a month If I now I'm a label saying like oh, shit We don't have to develop people one-on-one anymore because if we just cast the net wild enough We'll collect all the people that figured it out before they got to us and now we can just focus on like she even said it Putting you in places you can't get to I can get you on jimmy kim. I can get you on this this thing This thing that like you need crazy resources to get access to right I would have did the exact same thing. You know saying and I know like labels still sign artists Um, they aren't popping like they still sign artists who are a zero like I said, we've worked with some of them but I think that is Kind of like you said one to just still kind of sell the dream like we still do that Right like hey, we're gonna pick you up obscure artists and help you go from you know some zero to ten and then you know most Labels even still are works on about people who are passionate about music But people who are passionate about music are gonna find people they like and believe in for whatever reason and finesse them into the system, right? This this leads to the other conversation the ray conversation Oh, yeah, yeah, so for those of y'all who don't know she's an artist in the uk. Yeah, and my first My first encounter with her was back in I don't know like 2017 because I would use all these Song snippets as a part of my promo and she was one of the artists I found I was like heavy a and r all back then because a lot of people that I Shared early on became big man. So they got they got the the approval from from a venture to shine early on man Now with that being said though, like I didn't hear from her after that. I was like, oh, yeah, she gonna be it I saw it And I didn't hear from her And then as of recent We were just in our meeting and this information comes out about Like her label kind of hold her back and you said you had been seeing some of that conversation too, right? Yeah, that's like three four days. I'm gonna let you like go deeper into it because I didn't realize any of it Y'all were telling me about how well no, no, I was saying I had never heard of her as much as I heard of her And so the last I thought she was like I thought she was a completely new act Okay, I saw a little bit of that narrative But I thought she was completely new and then you know like sam dropped in our group chat And I wouldn't look that much like 20 million monthly listeners. I didn't even see that one when you drop that Okay, so here's basically the the breakdown Her label wouldn't let her drop music. Yeah, pretty much period, right? She was signed To poly door back in 2021 No, she took on her record label poly door back in 2021 to basically say, hey, y'all got to let me out of this thing And she won she had more than 17 million monthly listeners on Spotify. Now she's at like 30 something 20 something 30. Yeah, someone there. She's popping, right? And she even has top 20 hits to her name. Like she got seven of them with like Beyonce John Legend in terms of like songwriting skills. Okay. So yeah, so she got some skills out there And in the end of it though, she took the twitter and used twitter as leverage To say hey, I need to get out of this agreement and that's what multiple artists have done But as you said some artists are doing that and not coming out not coming out they're not could out of this situation Right, which is a whole other conversation But she went out on twitter to vent about being trapped in this deal of songs not being able to be released Or simply being passed on to other artists because her pen game was so strong So they were taking her music shit that she wrote for herself and passing it on. I don't Know how that happens. That's one thing That I personally haven't known of an artist going through where they're writing stuff and your record label has the right to say No, we're going to give it to somebody else I personally, you know, I'm hearing a new different finesse and scenario every day of music. It's it's crazy. Yeah, but that's that that sucks I could imagine it's like that you wrote this shit for yourself and then they have the right to say who it goes to or not so That makes you like thanks for that Beyonce hit you like what right exactly because they'll pass it on But then tell her it's not good enough to be on her album. Yeah, all right So but we're going to still cap in another way. So in mid july she got released from her her contract And there's been so many artists that have been sidelined for periods of time Which we can get into for another conversation But what happened with her which is what made me think about her when you said the statement of The industry still has people at these companies who are all for the art. So you might get this artist signed early Mm-hmm Her situation was the person that signed her or was her primary advocate Ended up moving on from the company. Oh that happens so yeah She's locked down. Yeah in this scenario and your main hero your main You know supporter is no longer there to support you and it happened so much, right? The company gets reshuffled reorg'd or somebody gets another opportunity And then next thing you know, these other people don't even believe in you. They don't see the vision like you Yeah, they didn't believe me likes to you believe me right exactly It is one thing to be a two-phase company and we just pushing this line of two-phase Because oh the new person that comes in they know that they're pushing this line of two-phase with this art It's more particular. Yeah, you even have people have more traditional companies like that say I well, I don't get credit for pushing this two-phase. I want to come up with a whole another one Just so I can get credit So you already have that type of ego that might come into it But then literally we're talking about art. So it's specific even if that person was a nice person It was trying to like help deliver on some of the things the label had for you they might not see the vision or understand the vision and That's the thing that sucks about being at these companies when people move on and that's something that can happen at You name any label any of these companies organizations And that's when it comes down to the reality of it these companies the industry as a whole is made of people It's all people All right, so we'll say Labels this label that the music industry this music industry that but it's people. So she had a person That would have done right by her apparently. I've seen this at many labels. I remember when uh, I think I think la Read left something one of whichever label we left and a lot of artists on the label were like, oh shit, man I go I gotta go. I gotta figure out how to get out of here since he's leaving. Yeah, right like so You have that advocate you have that person on your team and a lot of the times it's really about finding the people And connecting with those people getting deals and relationships with those people not necessarily pursuing A label in itself All right, because it might look like oh, they're in a good position to handle every single part of my process because of their resources but Do you connect with those people do those people see your vision? Are they incentivized because again you are still competing with other artists on the label and none of that leads back to the exact same business Not your business, right? Yeah, that artist doesn't increase your business. There's a lot of different factors to consider, but Yeah, I I find it so interesting when you hear about those especially because it really sucks when it's like you did actually make the right decision Yeah, the person just left though. Yeah And I just learned this last year actually that you can um You can negotiate in your contracts with certain entities that like this person that brought you in leaves Then you can go or they can restructure your contract. I don't remember the exact name of You know the calls or the thing they let you do that. I'm not a lawyer, you know I'm saying like but I learned this a couple months ago. Um, because like that happens, but we're going through that right now With tiktok right like you know, so we know We know the pain right like you know, I'm built up all this trust this relationship Finally got a good flow going then if they email such and such has been let go some new person taking up your account We've been through that 50 times with tiktok like not literally not literally 50, but we've been through it probably Five times in the last like you're gonna have yes Like changing new people changing new people every time you get cool with one person and have a little flow going Literally is somebody else and it takes you three months to even have that first meeting with that new person And then they're all gonna be gone two and a half months from then 100 and there's the other company not going to put the company name out there But you know, we got our main advocate. Okay, they're like, hey Hey connect with somebody else before you need to build it. Yeah, you know So Which they are about to do so shout out to them. Shout out to them. Shout out to them. All right, but that that's literally a part of it. So That's why you see some people move and shake so much in music though Because like hey, bro, it's all a movement target. Let me just try to know everybody. Yeah, bro You really never know, bro. Like nothing you checking a bro once again. Congrats. Oh, I mean, I looked at a place like six months ago What But we have music jobs have a crazy turnover. That's a conversation another day But the turnover rate in any music position is wild a lot of it's it's like sales Yeah, that's the only one of the main places where I also see that type of like turnover and it's not all looked at as negative Yeah, you see people going from company to company, especially like within tech. Oh, yeah, I was a sdr over here I was a sdr over here and just trying to find Find a way but yeah now music Look again always remember It's the people So all the people can't be bad You just got to find those people instead of just looking for hey, I want to be on this label Who are the people who are over there? Or I want to be on this management team or I want to be a part of this artist collective Whatever it is. You can't just look at how the situation is going good. Yeah, I look at How can it go for you? Yeah? Yeah And look can't just be from your perspective because you know you having a rosy eyes like oh man Yeah, this just happened and that just happened in that and they got this so they can do that for me But did they say they're gonna do that for you? Do they see that happening in that way? Is that shit in your contract? Is that in your oh Yes, I'm glad you said that because I thought about this when you talked about Negotiating the person in the building being there or not. Yeah Every single thing is negotiable in these contracts Like it gets very very specific and what you negotiate just becomes better Based on what you know. Yeah, right because that might not matter for some artists for whatever reason But people get it and then through that they're gonna like oh, I'm gonna negotiate that next time But there's some artists who never end up hitting that particular issue in their career Right, but so it's not always about trying to get over on somebody or Or not is literally just Having the experience and being able to play chess to know that certain possibilities might happen And how do you guard yourself contractionally? If this thing happens because they might not know they're going through the real or the people you talking to Like not know like oh shoot, bro. We you know, we're at damn near just in the imprint We don't really have control control and now they said they don't like the way we perform it So and it's not necessarily on this department. It's the other side So they just said they're gonna put a new ceo on place and that dude's gonna get rid of all the people he don't know And he gonna You know bring over all his homies the bios the bios There's there's so many factors where it's not straightforward And it's just on you to observe talk to people who know to then begin to think about some of these things That will protect you even when you aren't necessarily being done wrong. You just find yourself in a A Constantly changing environment. It's the best way to revolving door a revolving door for sure for sure now With that being said What is it really like for a songwriter in 2023? We talked about this in the st John clip. Yeah, not too long ago But here's another artist going even deeper on publishing in general I guess well, actually he's a songwriter like that's his thing his thing So I want to play this clip and then let's just talk about it break down some more numbers for y'all Money, do you think is generated from a million streams $4,700? Roughly $4,700 of that revenue publishing revenue eight 900. Yeah, which means on a hit record You're literally dividing that money amongst five six other collaborators And we don't get that money for a year to a year and a half is what generally happens is we'll do what 200 songs a year And in those sessions, we're not getting paid to show up. We got to get our own door dash We got to pay for parking and you're launching blindfolded half court shots trying to make a basket so you can make an 800 dollars All right, so $800 minus 10 so He actually said a couple things and if y'all don't know this guy is a two times grammy award winning person Was actually was said on the video. He won two Grammys and he's a writing songwriter and producer the more important part is The way he broke down fees and the process so we know that It's a gamble in terms of if a song is going to do well or not it is going to hit a million streams or not and He talked about how much the money money the song makes but then you break it down to publishing 800 dollars in that particular scenario that he's breaking down Now you add in I work with multiple people So are we busting it down 50% because I mean you worked on it or are we busting it down on some of these bigger records? right One tenth because it's 10 different writers on this thing. Yeah, right And the funny part about it is he's like in this whole time I'm paying for my pizza You know my parking like this entire process not knowing it is going to happen So I have expenses coming out for a gamble And that's why record labels move the way they move, right? Yeah It's because I got expenses constantly going out and I need to make this money back in some way So I got a limit the risk that I'm taking and increase the possibility that something's going to keep this thing moving, right so I like the fact that he brought in those personal expenses Into it because I think we don't even think about that enough or that's not enough of part of the conversations Like what are you doing in this meantime and how much is it costing you in the meantime before you make that money back? So really You make that 800 dollars. Let's just say you are the only one in that category Did you just break even to pay for your pizza and parking over that period of time? All right And whatever else it took for you to maybe fly out if you had to fly out Yeah, all right over over there over over there and especially over in L.A. Dolly You know, that'd be 200 dollars down and back sometimes some trips I've taken And then the worst part is, you know, you're waiting a year to get that check That's the most disrespectful part. That's the way the industry works. I didn't understand that shit. I remember Um, when I first learned that I wasn't in the music industry yet and I'm like I don't understand. Yeah, because you know, I'm still in at that time I was working a job got paid every two weeks. No, I might have been Still like bar teams And I was happy because I had two different jobs to pay me two every two weeks But it was getting paid every one week because they were staggered I was living that kind of life. And I'm like, bro, you doing what? You get paid quarterly Maybe yearly in some of these cases. I don't understand. This makes no sense Well, the first time we ever got hit with a net 90 that should make me angry I was like 90 days to get paid for this work. I'm doing today For you for you. Yeah Yeah, exactly. So I get it man. I 100% get it And I mean then to his point, it's like, man, you know, you don't really have that clarity of what's gonna work because You know, I've made lots of producers and songwriters that spend these same amount of fees You know what I'm saying? Put the same amount of work into the music that never comes out, right Entity doesn't put enough Juice into it to make it go as far as it needs to go to recoup for you Right, like so many different things that affect the success of the song that have absolutely nothing To do with or is absolutely out of your control as a producer slash songwriter. You know what I'm saying? um, and so then it's I don't know it is interesting man because I did have a this same conversation about Uh, you know, should songwriters get paid to be in the room with the songwriting home of your mind She was telling she feels like songwriter should get paid like some type of hourly work fee Just to be in the session because of that like I could come your argument could be hey You spend 10 hours on this session this shit come out blow up You know, so you make a million but it's like I could also spend 10 hours in this session Took me $50 to get there because I spent 30 on lunch and then y'all shelf this shit and nothing You know, I get nothing from it. So I understood where she was coming from with that I don't know if other songwriters and publishers or you know saying I don't feel like that's something They're like actively fighting for you know, I personally but it like makes sense when you think about like that context of it Well, also when you got people to that argument being inefficient with your time too So you showing a lake. Yeah, you just chilling Drinking got the henny in there. Yeah So I'm just waiting. Hopefully something comes out He just wasted an extra four hours when this could have been a six hour session instead of a 10 hour session Yeah, I Get it. Yeah, they're not do get because we've all seen that I've been in some session on this shit could have been 45 minutes, bro. Yes Yeah, so And then the interesting part So when you relate this to the other conversation about the copyright royalty board So These stats This is where you get this out The royalty board accepted a music industry wise settlement That will improve songwriter streaming rates in the united states from january 1st 2023 The settlement known as phone records for We'll see songwriters and music publishers pay a headline rate of 15.3% All right of a giving interactive streaming services But that's about 20 27. So it's going to work its way to that point Now it's going to start at 15.1% And then increase to 15.2% 2024 here and then slowly from there go up 0.05% So what does that mean? That means Literally shoot away inflation is working now It's going to be moving slower than the pace of inflation So you're really just breaking even at where you were before You know, I mean and it's already long overdue like this hasn't been changed in a minute So you're still just trying to catch up. It's like, oh, I've been getting paid $5 an hour and then You know, you fast for 20 years and people Should be making maybe $15 an hour or something like that, right? Well, I'm trying to catch up with this immediate jump and even when I make the immediate jump I'm not going to be caught up and still slowly lose ground as inflation occurs So a win no, but you know what to me like all around win But you know what I said, right? I said the argument goes back to sports And what you see again and again You have The NFL NBA, they're pretty favorable the ML MLB They're pretty favorable in comparison But the NFL especially notorious their agreements that they have for such a dangerous sport Doesn't make sense like even I can healthcare the contracts not guaranteed all of these things But you have a union or I forgot what they call it They might not use the word union, but y'all have this collection of all the athletes Right and y'all come to these agreements They do holdouts and strikes and like we're not going to play this season until We come to an agreement. So they've done this time and time again. They're still not getting guarantees Why is that so hard because some of these players Is weird. It's the middle class that suffers the most which goes into society as a whole the upper class You got some of them that are willing to say, hey I'ma take a stand and try to increase this number for everybody Because and I got the leverage in cloud. Those are the ones you need the most right, but How inspired are they unless they're just mother Teresa MLK? Yeah, I'm only gonna fight but so hard because also because I have so much leverage and I'm in these great positions And we kind of built a relationship With some of these guys like I'm in good standing and I don't want to mess up My situation and make it too rocky by trying to fight too hard or too dirty to help the little guy Yeah scenario, right? Yeah, so I'm not gonna hold out for so long, but here's the crazier part Because a lot of people like to go to the people who have money or people on top and blame them the most what you see Is the ones on the bottom and this is strictly more in the sports Especially like in a field right now and then we'll relate it back to the artists, but this is the same thing the ones on the bottom understand that there's a short time span to capitalize and Like the average career might be three years for a lot of people or I need to prove myself and get on this team So a lot of those guys Actually don't want to hold out too much either because individually it's like What am I going to do take a stand for the future guy? Because stopping this shit right now will actually mean I never make money right because I lose my opportunity Yeah, so those guys are damn near fighting harder than the people who got the most money And the people in the middle are kind of just in the middle never Coming up because you got the big guy who's already a big guy And you know he keeps he leveraging a little bit of his weight, but he's not gonna fight for you to get everything you need He had the little guy that's like look bro. I can't think about tomorrow like that I'm trying to think about today. Make sure I get the money that I need to get and yeah You know 300k might not seem like a lot to you. That's a whole lot of money Or I'm at right now. Yeah, so it's that hard to To bring together These organizations where in football it's very obvious Everybody who's in the league, right? These are the players These are all the people who matter you're either in or you're out all these people are on a team and music Who is actually truly in music and a professional? I'm not right Right. We got our stars those people that we know and some of the people they're connected with but What what are the? Terms do we just say? Oh, you have to be in a label Okay For us to have a meeting and then try to come up with some terms and try to improve these terms together Because there's a lot of artists who are just starting out today and they consider themselves pursuing it professionally like what How do we know who we're in this boat with at least those athletes know who they're in the boat with I might not like have the artists. I don't know if they're on teams Or like if they're really serious about this shit, like are we on the same level? How are they handling their business because agreements are so different between people? um Like so it makes it really really hard for artists to Work or straight something that Is impactful. Yeah for their for their own rights publishers Whether it's on the public side, whether it's on their general deal side, whatever it is the thing that has been most beneficial For artists has not been artists standing up for themselves As much as we like to push this narrative of the indian that's what's bringing the leverage the thing that's been most beneficial is the Advent of the internet bringing on social media and these things that literally changed the landscape where You can do more without the label and because of that Not only does that mean you can go longer without the label, but it also allows the label To look at things different too. Oh, I don't need to invest in somebody early on I can just wait because I can see them build up in real time So I can lower my risk and with that lower risk That means I'm going to do less work and I want to take a more favorable deal for you But because I didn't have to do that work that I would have had to do before not because I care about this indie stuff Right, like I could be if somebody great at this company again It's about the people right. I could be one of these great people at the companies And say, yeah, I want to give you this deal because it's favorable Go back to the accounting point of department and they're like, hell you talking about bro We don't do that. Those numbers don't work out Right, so you're only able to do the deals because the accounting department who cares less about your well being individually Approve this at the label. Yeah, right has nothing to do with this concept of Us taking a stand, right? Let's just leave it at that, right? It Us taking a stand or having that mentality is really Using the space that's already in the room. All right, right because the problem is most people are moving They're sitting in this chair right now, right and they're only taking advantage of everything that you can in this chair Where the reality is there's a full room here I can get up and I can go this corner that corner that corner that corner that corner And now I'm taking advantage of the full space in the room. I'm not expanding the room I'm not innovating the room. You know what I mean? I'm not building anything in the room However, I'm now taking advantage of Every part of it. So I have a deal where this is the max that my accounting department as a record label is willing to pay you But you agree to what you can get from this chair the mentality that's stuck in there. That's your fault but If you have enough education, you know, you pay attention to these conversations of You know value and understanding how things work You can at least get up in this chair and get all Of the money that comes with this room as a whole, right? But that wasn't was that necessarily Your leverage or the record label wanting to do good or was that just a record label? Finally saying, oh, okay. Yeah, it was in our budget Usually we just let you well, you know, this job was budgeted for 120k, but you only asked for 100k So why would I say no to that? Right? Oh, okay, you asked 120k. Cool. That was in our budget anyway We just gave you what we already had set aside for you if you actually had the Audacity or knowledge to ask for what you were worth Yeah, or to your point about them already being there. It's like, hey, what it took us A million to get you to this point. We didn't have to do that. So, yeah, man take this extra 200k 300k something like that. Yeah. It's like, why not? Yeah Would have taken us that amount of money and we didn't have to take on the risk Because we could have put that amount of money and nothing happened. So why not? Right? This is just it's just basic risk assessment and Again to me that always goes back to just understanding the landscape that we're in The way their labels work today versus yesterday, you know, I'm big on distributors are the new record labels That is the deal. Why is that the deal? Because what do record labels control? traditionally primarily the marketing right And the distribution which is a part of marketing right The marketing department individually that left and many of them can still take hold of distribution they can't from a standpoint of Like getting on Spotify, but we already know that it's more than that all right, so we can control some distribution in some way that's still our way of like keeping leverage in the game And then upstreaming you to other services because that's what it is, right? Oh, yeah, we're gonna put you in this distribution service and if you happen to be successful Now you're already in our system and we can do a better deal which is beautiful for labels to me Like this is a better fucking model for labels. That's a thing people talk bad on labels This is a better like time for labels than ever in my opinion. Like you look at One where the numbers are going so If you look at why they are investing so much money in the catalogs of these artists Based on streaming. Yes, the numbers are tough now But we also have to look at what I said earlier in the conversation The most of the population has not adopted streaming yet, right? But these old people are gonna get older and then you know what happens when you get older enough times, right? But these young people are gonna get older too And that means more young people and these young people Are all gonna come into a streaming consumption mindset, which means the whole pot of streaming gets bigger So right now we're still in a trough like people like oh music is so amazing. It's doing so awesome We're not making the money that we were making in 2020 No, not 2020 in 2000 yet Like I forgot the number that it was around maybe like I don't know maybe like 30 billion or something like that, right? Last year people were happy that it grew to 10 billion like that type of thing, right? We're still at a low But by like 2030 ish They're projecting this shit's going to hit like 55 billion the industry based on streaming Right, so I'm getting in these catalogs because it's a great time For me to own these catalogs long term. I'm an investor. I could do that shit, right? Yeah, and it's also a perfect time and because on the artist side, there's this tax bill That was going like fuck them up. Anyway, where they weren't able to cap, right? So that's why you're you're seeing this stuff But it's great to be that because now not only can I do that as a label Right, and well not as a label Like that as an investor taking this music in the long term But as a label, I also understand this industry is going Crazy if the long term if you're willing to wait that out So I'm in an age where as a distributor I get partial control of your shit Without doing shit in comparison to just signing you. That's a lower Effort agreement and you're happy with it. I'm happy with it, right? It's like hey, okay I only get 15% of your shit and you I don't charge you anything to distribute this or I get there's all kind of other agreements, right? There's some people who you got distributors who say hey, you can just pay $20 a month or $50 a year or whatever. We're not even talking about those But you got the ones who say I want to get a little percentage Most of them are percentage actually We say what especially the ones that's worth it The ones that are worth it and I have a little bit more boutique and then what varies The percentage varies right 10% 20% whatever that looks like and then I have all these tools, right? Because I'm here you're now having somebody that That might have more relationship cd babies not really gonna Like move any room around to make some play listing culture happen for you, but Who don't want to name Let's just say empire might right Empire can like that's that's let's put it that way might do whether they do it or not They can't yeah, right in comparison to what a cd baby or somebody like that would do All right, so you come into agreement is based off percentage You're happy with it because you own far more gives you more flexibility, but that also gives me less Of less responsibility, but the moment you start to really take off I have the resources To be able to treat you like a record label and those agreements change. They don't say the exact same Like oh shoot you taking off and now you're about to be the next drake Okay, I got all these other resources. I'm gonna approach you and say hey Okay, we kind of giving you some of these resources, but we could take this to the next level if you let us do this that in a third That's what many Situations are having occurred and it makes the most sense for the label. Yeah low risk. You're already in agreement I just did my anarring But I still did have to do heavy investing because I didn't know if you were going to win or not All right, you Get in agreement for you So it's a closer to a win-win because I don't want to make it sound like I'm just saying hey distributors are trash I'm just saying that's a far more fruitful agreement and then the indie culture is the same because I got the distributor right here and then what are labels Doing they're in bed with a lot of distributors I'm owning a lot of these distributors as a background So there's some source. It's a subsidiary or maybe I just have a ownership stake cool On the other side You just said it earlier, right? If you want a little bit more individual attention, what do you do? You go to a indie label So those indie labels are the a and r's and that's where you're getting more attention They can put more extra effort and energy into creating more of a star All right But then you get upstream to the label It's still that machine. So these labels Instead of being that major that people just go to and they say hey everybody I want to go Like everybody wants to come straight to me. I create all of these new vehicles That eventually all lead back to me anyway And they're just structures that lower my risk. So like the way I think artists need to get Not get caught up in this marketing idea of Or propaganda that's why I think it's propaganda That we're destroying labels overtaking labels. We're just in a completely different climate All right, and labels have adjusted to the client and it's actually better for them Just like it's better for you. Yeah, right Because it gives you more flexibility in decision-making. Now. It's not a one-on-one Mono a model game Better for you might not mean better for another artist because it's also your decision making along the way I'll leave it at that for for right now. But it's it's crazy and it's interesting to to observe from You know, just the way these numbers work and how the game really maps out If you pay another tension Yeah, bro, it's like you can really see where the future is going. You can see where the future is going, brother it's and I'm gonna find that um That report when we hop off because it was a golden sex that did the projection. It was in one of the reports Yeah, and I remember looking at it before but it wasn't until I looked back at it another time where I I looked at the Projection of where music was going and when I saw that And I saw the whole curve. I'm like, ah Ah It's coming together. Yeah, you know what I mean because you know how you look at something one time But it's not with a certain context and he goes to some experiences and he looked back at that saying He didn't read the same book or you listen to the same song and this shit hits different Damn, this shit makes so much it makes a core total different level of sense at the moment. So You know, that's You know, just some of the thoughts for this episode today. This is yet again episode 30 32 Uh, let us know how y'all liking some of this flow. We're gonna keep evolving as y'all May notice, you know, we've got this white background for those who haven't seen and we're in process of flipping the studio To to make it look and feel interesting. I appreciate y'all who said that y'all fuck with the new look, but It's gonna be a cuter It's definitely gonna get a little bit cuter, man We got higher standards for ourselves and this ain't it just yet Uh, but yeah, let us let us know y'all's thoughts in the comments and if y'all make it this far We appreciate y'all as always y'all y'all the home team y'all the real ones the realest of ones and we do it for y'all I'm brand man shine. I'm kori and we out peace