 You're welcome back. We're ready now to take the headlines from some of our national dailies. We have the Punch, the Guardian and Nature News, or the Nation, and then Nature News this morning. We're beginning with the Guardian. But first of all, I'd like to introduce to you the guest for today. He's a legal practitioner and a regular face on the breakfast show on Plus TV. Mr. Tunde Kolaule, good morning and welcome to the program. Good morning and welcome. Thanks for having me here. Yeah, we're beginning with Punch Newspaper and I'm going to take all the headlines and then we'll pick one after the other. The biggest headline there is that APC Lampoon's Attiku XVP set to submit documents in Supreme Court. That's on Tinobu's credentials. The writers are at Tinobu Attiku's journey to Chicago, Varsity. A fruitless exercise, XVP a loser, says APC. And presidents' documents released by Varsity have vindicated us. PDP insists. Okay, we also have minister Tinobu Pigs Bararabe to replace Elrify. And 100 billion Naira CNG buses, Senate rejects CBN loans. Wants Tinobu against illegal spending. 17 independent discos get licenses, 10 operational, and 23 oil blocks fail to produce crude, as according to the federal government. We also have UNDO assembly ask CJ to raise impeachment panel. And unfortunately 22 people drown as boot capsizes in Niger. Six bodies recovered already. Let's begin with Tinobu's credentials. The president's credentials that have been obtained by the former vice president, Attiku Abu Bakar, who was the presidential candidate of the People's Democratic Party. Let's hear your thoughts on them. Hello. Yeah, can you hear me? Yes, I'm hearing you. Okay. You are saying we should begin with the... The... The control of the sovereignty of the president's credentials. Yes, please. Yeah, and I want to say that I have read most of the things that were published with regards to some difficult issues. And I want to say that the more I read the more confused that that person became, it would appear the issue has taken a very, very serious partitions and direction, such that we find out why so many things are being published, either in the conventional media or in the social media. I have an idea of where fake news is not too far from us. One is behind me to pick up the distinguish which is genuine and which is not factual. For example, you have mentioned this morning what the PDP has been saying that they have been vindicated. You may also have read what Festus Guillermo said that Atticus Jordan to the U.S. to begin to look for the president's credentials or certificates and know that has been a bladder waste of time for which Atticus and the PDP should apologize. Given this, I want to say, okay, before I even arrive at my uncle, I have also read what one professor, Pero Gifaluk, who is a Nigerian professor, resident in the U.S. have published. So, given all these issues and all that, I think it might be too hasty for us to jump into a conclusion or arrive at a conclusive end that the accusation allegations that Mr. President has been proven. For example, the Chicago University itself has not been too helpful in this matter. They have said in one breath that the certificate Mr. President is holding is genuine and that they issued it. In the other matters that I have read, they have also claimed me that what was submitted to INEC, it was not what was issued to Mr. President at that point in time. Of course, there's also the controversy that, you know, that when the president was applying to the University of Chicago, some of the credentials that is submitted bore a female description and that the government college legals, which he claimed to have attended and graduated in 1976, I mean, in 1974, was actually established in 1976. So, given all these controversies and all that, I would want to say that the scenario with regard to those credentials and the unfolding that we might have to wait a little bit to really be able to get to the bottom of some of these things. But let me quickly say that no matter what the circumstances are, the controversy surrounding the certificate may not be sufficient to remove the president at the end of the day for so many reasons. One, whatever article brings back from Chicago or from the US, it will say I have to be registered with the Supreme Court. We must register the decisions and judgments and know the document that he got here in Nigeria for him to be able to use it in any Nigerian court. And you will also agree with me that the case is not before the Supreme Court. And any case before the Supreme Court, in which you haven't turned out some document at the New York Court, especially at the presidential election of Petrion Tribunal, which will certainly have an order. You have an order to cross with regards to handling those documents. One is that you have to seek leave of the Supreme Court to be able to tender any of those documents. And the leaves are never granted. Alacard, the Supreme Court will have to weigh so many things in the mail, you have to hold them, you have to convince them from the necessity to bring in documents, exhibits that are not used at the lower court to convince the Supreme Court before you can tender it in there. They can decide in their wisdom because the Supreme Court is a law unto itself. And say look, we are not accepting this, we are not granting you leave to be able to tender this. So the disposition of the panel that is going to hear the presidential election of Petrion at the Supreme Court will have a lot to do with whether that document will eventually go in or it will not go in. Secondly, when you look at Section 308 of the Nigerian Constitution, you will agree with me that the president immediately became sworn in as a president. He began to be quoted. I would describe as a softening immunity that you cannot try him on any criminal case or a law. That provision of the Constitution can see being invoked to shield the president from really trying him or wanting to use that certificate to really be able to get the president to move from office. Let me understand this today. Tunde, let me understand this. You said something about immunity and it just got me worried. So at this point where there is still litigation, there are still cases in court and Nigerians are just looking and saying, is this our president or not? You're saying that immunity clause can be invoked in such a way that nothing can happen to the president who is sitting now. So what's the point of going to the court if anybody who has been sworn in can invoke that immunity clause and then get away with anything? The law is unasked. You hardly can decide or determine on what pendulum. The decision of the courts, as well as the Supreme Court, will eventually go. I'll give you one example. Look at the Routimea Metsch's case. Imam Mboulopina Routimea Metsch, when he first became governor in River State, he didn't contest that election. It was somebody that ran for the elections and won the election. But he got a very good lawyer. Who went to the Supreme Court? Who went to the Court of Appeal and said, look, it is parties that the electorate vote for are not individual. And then the Supreme Court opened that position and allowed Routimea Metsch to become the governor of River State. When eventually the Supreme Court were being quailed, they decided to take that decision in order to send a proper signal to the non-government politicians not to begin to toy with our laws or to begin to manipulate elections. What I'm trying to draw out of this is the dysfunction of the people who we hear the lecture paper at the Supreme Court who have a lot to do with regards to what eventually became of that decision that was taken in the United States. For them, we must remember that this is not the first time that this issue of the certificate controversy is coming up. When Mr. President first became governor in Lagos State and Northern, the issue was raised. Chief Ghanifa and me, in fact, went to the courts to stop the president. I mean, to get the president removed as the governor of Lagos State. But the court in his wisdom overruled Chief Ghanifa and me. And then the president was able to continue as governor at that point in time. The Lagos State Assembly also set up a panel to look at the certificate issues. And the Lagos State Assembly cleared the president at that period in time. You must also remember that what the constitution has provided for is that you must have started up to at least equivalent of a second school level for you to be able to fight for the presidency, the governors, and some of these other elective purposes. If Mr. President has been governor, he has been senator and also contested the presidential election and won. And he has won, he has won the mobi and deloids and accounting firm and Northern with what certificate he did work in those places. What certificates did he become a senator and what have you. So, if you look at the preparedness of some of these things and know that you want to conclude that it is still money yet on creation day. And it is going to be an aculian task for anybody to rely on whatever comes back from the United States of America to remove Mr. President as the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Or even for the Supreme Court to opt on is victory by the lesion petition tribunal because under our law there is the principle of estopian. There is also the principle that if a man has been tried for one particular offense or infraction, he cannot be tried again. But that issue cannot be looked at again by the Nigerian courts. So estopian and the constitutional provisions section 177, 08 and Nora, who tend to favor Mr. President in this matter. You did say something about the reverse state election and you said that the judges there said they wanted to send a signal. I wonder what signal this Supreme Court will send. But I'd like to just on a lighter note point out the fact that from time to time we hear of lawyers who have practiced for 20 years and then they get caught just discovering that they were not lawyers in the first place. But they succeeded. They went to the courts. They defended people. They won some cases. They lost some cases. But they were not caught. They were practicing lawyers and doctors also do this kind of things. But that's not what I'm saying is happening right now, but just for a lighter mood. Okay, let's go to on-do assembly. It's still on the point, newspaper. On-do assembly insist or have instructed the CJ to set up an impeachment panel. And it gets me worried when I hear things like this from states. On-do state, they're having a problem. Someone who hold the fort for like three months for a governor, he just came back and they say he's doing, he's not loyal anymore. And then you go to a-do state. It's the same thing happening. A new office for the deputy governor. The deputy governor had to go and apologize and say I made a mistake by thinking that he wanted to contest. It was a mistake. I don't know how that was. And there's a problem there. And so many other places we see this. So I'd like your comments. On-do state has made this move because the CJ has to raise this panel before they can do anything. Let me hear your comments on that. Well, I've also read that the deputy governor went to court. And I think it was one of the reasons he's in with it. As he stored the agreement procedure, I think there's a court order stopping the UNDOCRAs assembling from proceeding with the impeachment process. The truth of the matter is no matter how unpalatable a court decision is another, it will remain a court decision until it is obtained by a higher court. So the UNDOCRAs are planning a ban by the decision of following the decision which today is the prevailing decision with regard to whether the deputy governor of UNDOC can be removed or not. But I've also read where the UNDOCRAs are insisting that they are going to proceed with impeachment proceedings. And like you said, they have asked the chief judge of UNDOC state to set up a panel to look at their complaint against the deputy governor and proceed with the impeachment process. If the chief judge were to be on the side of the law, he would not constitute the panel to be the deputy governor. Knowing that there's a strategic court order stopping the UNDOCRAs assembling from proceeding with impeachment process, this provides the amount of a decision of court order on the part of the UNDOCRAs assembling, on the part of the chief judge to proceed ahead, not to go ahead with the impeachment process. But again, we must be careful. There has been instances in which, even when there's a strategic court order, the chief judge will still proceed to constitute the impeachment process. This may happen in a situation where the chief judge was partly recommended or appointed the chief judge of UNDOC state. And now that we have also seen a situation in which the chief judge disputes to constitute an impeachment panel. What has happened in Kobi state when the governor wanted to remove the deputy and the chief judge refused to constitute an impeachment panel against the deputy? Well, the bottom line for all of these things, in my humble opinion, is that the governors are not showing tolerance and nor are. They have to show tolerance in order to present this democracy. The deputy governors don't know their responsibility, the duties of their office and their lives. But the wins and caprices of the governors. Why we ask them and enjoy them? Or why they will not expect them to be liable to their principle to be governor? It does not mean they become total slaves to the governor. The deputy governors have a responsibility under the constitution. So also the governor. They are what I would describe as a kind of Siamese twins because without the governor and without the deputy. The governor himself cannot be said to meet the questionary panel to continue to, not just to state nothing, but to even win elections in the first and start. So it's by nature of an ignorant politics. There are all sorts of abnormalities. We are the ugly heads in the arena of politics. It is the tip dot of understate that we should not be looking at, whether it will stay with the law or it is loyalty to the governor that will call it a day. For understate. I will just repeat what I said last week. Last week that if when governor, he wanted to be governor and his own principal and friend and godfather, then he decided to frustrate or to stop him from becoming a governor. And he was able to overcome all those things. People cross-captured or changed his political party and eventually became a governor. On what moral ground is he now trying to stop his own deputy from trying to realize his political ambition to become governor of understate? It is electorate and there are so many parties in Nigeria that should decide who eventually becomes governor, not just in understate but also understate and not the governor, not the sitting governor of understate. That makes me just wonder whether this is a democracy because democracy is about the most choices and all that. Well, let's move to the nation newspaper and see some of the headlines. I will be very brief in all of these. We have agreement with organized labor to cost federal government two trillion Naira. That one is being written there. That's the boldest headlines. But I'm interested in Senate bars, new members from top positions. We also have Deftaria, FCT 18 states may bring back face mask and other stories that may also have appeared on the point. But Senate bars, new members from top positions. Let's start with that. Well, I believe you don't agree with that. Why are you convinced that experience is a very good thing? It is supposed to, or what you bring in from the experience you have had, will help a great team in assisting to discharge the responsibilities of leadership of the national assembly. But it's not sacrosan. It is not something that somebody cannot learn within a shorter period of time. That's why nobody is born speaker of House of Resentment or the Senator President. So when the national assembly begins to erect orders against new members who are coming to the national assembly, I don't think that is the best approach to give it. Whoever has the ambition to become leaders in the national assembly, having been duly elected, there should be no reason why such persons do not aspire. After all, it is the great capacity, health-wise, and the ability to learn and carry people along that should really matter. And not the donkey years of experience that have accumulated over time. Yeah, as people would say, the age of metusala is not synonymous with the wisdom or effectiveness in the discharge of the responsibilities of the life. Okay, so agreement with organized labor to cost federal government two trillion Naira. And in that story, the rider is that, let me wear my glasses, 89,100 workers likely to miss 35,000 Naira wage award. And there's also how VAT or value added tax cut on diesel will affect the economy. So let's look at this money that will cost the federal government because of the agreement raised by the labor. It's a very, very complex situation that we have in our land as a people. Why one agrees that even if the labor before the workers in Nigeria could pay 100,000 minimum wage, it was not safe enough to really take them home. Consider the high inflation that we presently have in the country. Consider the number of dependents that most people who are working in Nigeria have had to cater for and all that. Furthermore, we want to ask, where will the government get money to be able to pay these promises that the promising workers, the oil that will depend on, the money economy that has continued to sustain us, has become only a bull attack. It is no longer reliable. The prices of individual products around the world, in the world market, fluctuates on the daily basis. If by chance there's a crash in the oil revenue that we are getting, where will government be able to raise the necessary funds to be able to pay the workers what is promising them? Are we going to go back to the regime of Nigeria printing the mayor and spending the oil to pay salary? Are we going to maintain, go back to the era of going around the whole places, around the world, internally or externally, to borrow money to pay salaries? Then, certainly, paying workers, the kind of money that the government is promising them, is not only to fund inflation that we already have in our country. Furthermore, when you look at the percentage of the federal workers, the percentage of state workers, the percentage of local government workers, there are no significant percentage of the nation's population. Are we going to go back to the era? And with a large chunk of the nation's resources, we'll be used to pay workers' salaries and then the rest, used to sustain the efficacy of the Nigerian politicians. And as you are speaking, the approach that we are giving, the challenges that we have in the areas of economy, in the areas of politics, and in meeting or helping the workers to be able to live a comfortable life near the end of the day, not saddened by the purpose. The collect that it was when the government of Denayakubu government said the nation had to work money, with which it doesn't know what to do with it, decided to pay what was called back there. They withdrew the salary packages that inflation began to skyrocket in the country. And then most Nigerian workers began to embark on a matter of concentration, like that cannot be sustained, unlike that it's not based on any productive base of the Nigerian economy. Using that idea we are going back to, I will now go to start following the situation in which people will begin to consume what they have not produced. Honestly, I also look at the situation in which the government say, look, we will subsidize gas, we will provide mass transit buses and all that. When you look at all about the country today, the gas regime, electric gas, to power most of the public transportation and all that has never worked. In fact, mass transportation has never worked in Nigeria and we have been trying it over a long period of time. It is not working for so many reasons. What our laws are not built to accommodate the dream purposes that are always used for mass transit? The railway system too, as it has gotten off the ground and the river even gets off the ground, it's not going to make much difference. But they said that what we are investing in is in the locomotive railway. When around the world today it is a good trade that people are building, such as the Nigerian people now have. I will want to advise that for the government and the people, we have to linear sit down and put on some thank you cards and then navigate the land mines that we are made for ourselves as a nation. Especially in the years of the Italians. Okay, on the Guardian newspaper now, the headline is hurdles for federal government, 20-24 budget over 10 trillion Naira deficit and palliatives. Was it? Did you get that? I did, that there might be deficit of up to 10 trillion on the budget for 20-24. So what is the meaning of a deficit? Deficit is waste of means or basis for which you spend. And what is waste of means? It is merely printing money and spending it, money that are not based on any productive activities of the country. And of course when you merely print money and you begin to spend it, you are failing inflation. And also making international businessmen and other countries to begin to have lack of confidence in your economy, in your currency and whatever activities that can take place within the borders of your country. And what investors' confidence is lost? Because they are using waste of means to pile our economy, they should not be expecting any investment to come from overseas, into Nigeria, within the future, simple future. Okay, let's take a final headline, it's from Nature News. And the headline there is uncovered manholes, Nigerians lament threat to lives and properties. Okay, so authorities issue 10 warnings against manhole theft. It's becoming an issue, not just manholes. Sometimes there are places that are covered, there are gutters that are covered so that vehicles can pass into a street. And you wake up in the morning, you don't find those things anymore, even when you have CCTV cameras in some places and all that. I wonder what is happening and I wonder what can be done to correct that. Manholes are increasingly becoming empty or uncovered, not that they were not covered, but now we are losing the lead to all manholes in Lagos especially. We are very strange and very peculiar people. The way the transporters are provided for our own comfort, we also go ahead and violate those and then ban the guys who are the transporters for selfish reasons and for preliminary penalty. It is not just the manhole, most of the railings are pleaded that have been provided and called in vandalism and stolen. And they just think that they are human, they are better. I think we have seen more of manholes all over Lagos and in some other parts of Medea simply because Ion has become very expensive. You need to grab a thing, you take to the market, you sell and make it out of money. And because of that reason, a lot of people are in need of this manhole and selling them. So don't you make this Ion and use it to manufacture iron ore and some other iron materials. Let's remind those who are in need in some of this thing. There is a law, a very serious law, put into the side of this thing by punishment. For those who can analyze public properties, such as the colors of manhole, such as the rings of briquettes, and some of these sort of infrastructures that have been provided for sitting in the copper. You will not believe me. One brilliant young man, some years ago, lost his life in the precarious area of the neighborhood. He was calling for the people of Lagos right now, when he suddenly ran into a manhole that had been created because the gold had been moved by satin potions and gold. Very brilliant young man, lost his life in the precarious area of the neighborhood of Lagos State. What I think we should continue to do is to be educating the people on radio, on television, those that we are doing now, in newspaper, at the public commencement, and also by the national television agency, and the need for citizens not to begin to generalize public properties. And then they gave to the security people who would be conducting descriptive investigation to know where these things are sold, where they are being moved, and where they are placed. After all, those who remove them, if they are not market for sale, then they will be discouraged from moving themselves from those things. Very true. I do hope that people or citizens will take the responsibility of policing these things because I saw a video the other day where the people will probably call Ion Condemn. We're removing these things from the road. There are covers to gutters where vehicles pass onto the street. And these Ions are very, very heavy, and so I'm sure that they will cost a lot of money selling them. But they were removing them. They removed up to like three or four of them, and somebody was making a video and couldn't shout and say, we are seeing you or something to make these people run away. So as I say, the Ion Condemn, as we call them, some of them are perpetrating these kind of things, crime and criminality everywhere. I also blame the people who see these things being done and say nothing about them. They don't report them. They don't shoot them off. They don't say anything. And these things keep happening. I think it's our collective responsibility. Right now, I'd like to just thank you to Nde Kolawole for coming on the show this morning. Thanks for having me. I would like to wish you a very happy day. Thank you very much. You too. Thank you. Okay, today Kolawole is a legal practitioner here in Lagos State, and he was talking with us on the segment we call Off the Press. We'll be back in a moment.