 This talk is about injecting electromagnetic pulses into digital devices and I'll tell you how I got started working on this. NASA publishes a post-mortem on airplane difficulties with electronic devices. And what they didn't realize is basically they're getting somebody a roadmap to build a device to create so much interference that they could bring the plane down. And I have a number of these NASA things that I've been able to take off of the internet. They don't seem to do it today and I'm not sure why it may be they realize that these things could be used for other purposes. I'm really not sure. Okay, in this talk I have some foils about 27 PowerPoint slides. The slides really, they're okay but they don't really tell you anything. They don't tell you much. I have nine videos. The videos you come away from here, seeing the videos, the plane sleeping on the plane. You get up tomorrow morning and you'll remember the videos that will create a big impact. I was supposed to have ten. The tenth video was actually my posting a Pentium 166 megahertz laptop, an old laptop. And the hard drive I already fried. And I post it and I boot it up over Windows 95 diskette. I'm posting it and it stops. It dies. It needs manual intervention. So I stop it. I bring it up and I use a Red Hat Linux boot desk. Post it, it stops. Basically what that shows is that if you inject electromagnetic pulses into digital devices, they react with irrespective of the operating system. Actually irrespective to some degree with respect to the CPU. But they do disrupt the device. I'm going to show the first video here. And that's a Spark app. And you see it disrupting this dumb digital device. Why do I say it's dumb? It's dumb because it continues working even though I'm posting it. Smart digital devices do one of three things. They stop. They freeze. They need manual intervention. They try to reboot. Or they turn themselves off. Obviously I haven't tested every single device in the whole world. How I came up with that is just reviewing literature on the internet. Anything I get my hands on, that's what I've come up with. You have dumb digital devices, you have smart digital devices. The other thing about dumb digital devices, not only this calculator, they're also standalone type of analog detectors. A standalone detector could be on a pipeline, something else. It could be a precious detector, a temperature sensor, a pH sensor, a voltage sensor, something else. That produces an analog output. And then this output is digitized onto a network. And it's fed into a supervising control and data acquisition system. And I'll talk a little bit more about that. The pulse is created here by Marks Generator. And I have a video, even though I talk about Marks Generator, I have a video showing you the actual components, the charging circuit, all the good stuff. So that'll be there. I'll step along with the talk and the videos. And again, the videos are important. You'll learn more from the videos. You'll be more impressible than the videos and the foils. I'm talking about the history of EMP. Starfish was an atom bomb exploded. Actually, I think it was a hydrogen bomb that exploded in 63. It caused a number of allergies in Hawaii. And that was how the big thing about electromagnetic pulses came about. Marks Generator. I'll explain to Marks Generator. I have a video for that. Pulse parameters. Not all pulses are the same. There's a number of parameters that define the type of pulse. And you can actually pulse things where it's innocuous to digital devices. Dumb devices, smart devices, Byzantine faults. A Byzantine fault is if you have a large descriptive system and increasingly everything is a large descriptive system. Let's say you have 100 components. How do you know you're getting the accurate information from all these components? And how can you formulate an end result? Supervisor control and data acquisition. Hospitals. Hospitals are very electromagnetic pulse susceptible. Today, tremendous productivity of the hospitals. It depends upon devices monitoring. EMP, process and operating system independent. Degree revolution. Flyby wire. TWA to 800. And in there, I have a video of a throwaway camera with a strobe. And I take it apart and I use the equations to figure out how many joules of energy it is and to see whether that is possible to have created spark for TWA flight 800. I'll talk about 800 a little bit more. This is just a formula for power in joules. You had to figure out the power in joules coming from, let's say, a Marx generator just from a capacitor. I talk about the power grid. Something that I came across is that you can take the power grid, the national power grid down by injecting pulses into it. And this is not so much, this is more physics than anything else. The power grid has been taken down before because of magnetic disturbances from the stun, magnetic storms. To power these devices I'm talking about, I would not use a Marx generator. I'd use a Tesla coil. One of the original Tesla coils that Tesla built in Boulder, Colorado, he actually brought the AC generators from the power station down. So there's a lot of historical data that you can put together and say, you can inject pulses into a grid, bring it down. Not only bring it down, like as a power blackout, bring it down as a power outage. In other words, you can destroy equipment that you don't have the outage for a day or two days. You may have it for weeks. And I talk a little bit about Tesla coil. And also power quality. The grid is almost a living being where you have to maintain homeostasis constantly. History of EMP. The Compton effect, the H-bomb, you create it also with Tesla coils. Not so your Tesla coil has more electromagnetic interference, but you can create pulses with a Tesla coil easily. Marx generator, that's what I use. Explosive device armatures. That is more of a military device that you charge this armature, and then you explode this armature with high explosives, and it creates a pulse. We're not going to do anything with that. The H-bomb, Starfish, 1962. US exploded on H-bomb, 800 miles from O'Wowel, Hawaii. 30 springs of street lights went out. 300 street lights in all. That was the first when there was this notice that you can create pulses, and they can bring down electrical systems. The Marx generator, and everything that you see on the videos is powered by Marx generator. Invented in 1924, it's just a concept now to create high voltage. Capacitors are charged in parallel. Capacitors are discharged in series. Now we're going to have another video showing a Marx generator and a charging circuit. The orange things are capacitors, and they're in parallel. They're being charged in parallel. And you see the rails that they're charging from are resistors. This is off-the-shelf type components. Off-the-shelf type components do not like to work in a Marx generator for very long. You end up burning them out rapidly. If you want to build a... Right now I'm showing you a wire that they discharged through. They discharged in series. If each capacitor I have, what? Would I have five, six? Well, let's say I have five. If each capacitor charges to 5,000 volts, and I have five of them, I have 25,000 volts in series. And it's discharged through the spark app, which you already saw before. Just PVC pipe to conductors. The thing about my Marx generator that is different from everybody else's generator is that I optimize an extremely high pulse rate. Not a high voltage, but a high pulse rate. Now I'm showing you some analog meters. An analog meter is an analog meter. There's no electronics. It's good to keep an eye on what's happening in your generator. Now I'm showing you a control circuit for... It's a great circuit called a 555 timer. Millions of references on the Internet. You put in Yahoo, Google, whatever. Millions of references. It creates a pulse, and it's fed into this thing called a MOSFET, the type of power transistor. It sends this pulse to that green wire. The green wire is attached to the gate of the MOSFET, turns the gate on and off. In other words, I put high voltage, battery voltage across this transformer. Specialized transformer. It's a flyback transformer. These are transformers used in TV sets, cathode rate TV sets, plus high voltage. I purchased flyback transformers. Just off the Internet, in other words, I've also gotten a flyback transformer for old TV sets. The old TV sets always seem to work better. I don't know why. That's it. If anybody wants me to repeat any of the videos or anything else, I'll do it. This is another type of MOSFET, generally. This is a little different. The spark gap is actually inside of this PVC pipe. The capacitor is on the outside, the silver things, and then they have a resistor on the rail. When you start creating voltage sparks, high-voltage sparks, they start to increase intensely, in terms of dB10-hensely. 120 decibels. It could be over 130 decibels. The pipe is basically to muffle them, putting a muffling in there. That was more of a specialized version that I had to do because my Mark's Generator is saying it's a type of alarm in buildings. That finishes with Mark's Generator. Pulse injecting. You can inject these pulses. I haven't shown it yet. You can inject the main type of electrical wiring. The difference between creating a pulse and free air, and that's what I've done in showing you that dumb device, and the difference between injecting into wiring. Free air, the pulse drops off as 1 over r squared. If I'm one foot away from the spark gap, and then I move two feet away from the spark gap, it drops off by 1 over 2 squared. In other words, at two feet, it's one-fourth as high the value. If you inject an electrical wiring, which could be any of these wiring in here, it basically becomes an LCR circuit, an inductance capacitance resistance equivalent, but travels for many, many meters, many, many hundreds of meters. Again, it's very destructive when you do inject it into pulse into any type of wiring, or even, again, grounding. Dumb digital devices, simple digital devices, they keep on working after being pulsed. Stand-alone sensors like SCAD-Air, temperature-fresher voltage. You're actually doing type of EMP fuzzing on the device. The device is dumb, it's going to just pick up the pulse and send out any type of value at all. Again, if it's some type of pipeline where it's saying that an erroneous value of pressure or temperature, whatever else, and this is going back to a computer where it's figuring out some dynamics of the system, then that could be a problem. I mean, it depends on what type of edits are in the program. I mean, you just cannot beforehand figure out what would happen. Smart devices, again, they reboot. They need some operator to manually reset them. They turn themselves off. Again, surveying all the literature I get my hands on. Laboratories that have these devices. What happens to these devices inadvertently, putting it all together? Again, they do one of these three things. And I got, again, the Spark app there. And I have a TI calculator. And smart devices are generally much more susceptible to a pulse. Like I'm trying to put numbers in and I can't even get close enough that I could keep the number in. I try to even move it back, but it keeps trying to know if I just cannot get it to show. The one other thing about smart devices is that they do have a memory qualitatively observed at smart devices when you pulse them. You do cut down the life of them. In other words, if this device would normally work five years and you stop pulsing, it may only work one year. And I did find literature that validated what I was able to observe. So it was a real event. If you're injecting these pulses into a network, it could be through network wires, or you better off through the electrical system. The ground seems to be the best choice, because the ground goes every place. And even though you might say, well, this wire is grounded into a a grounding cable into the ground, well, that grounding cable going into the ground has a much higher resistance than the electrical connectivity of the rest of the ground. So it's not a big deal. As long as you keep injecting these pulses, somebody cannot, if it's a network, bring up the network, or you're going to have different devices doing different things. Turning it off, either reset, trying to reboot. That's not going to be a problem for them. Again, it's invariant with respect to operating system, to some degree, and that's a special case, architecture, electrical architecture, but the device will have a problem. Moore's Law, we all know it's Moore's Law, that number of transistors basically doubles every 18 months. As the die size decreases, and the electrical voltage that you need for the device and the new voltage that you need for the CPU decreases, you make them much, much, much more susceptible to pulses. Significantly more susceptible. So again, we're making devices that are more susceptible, and we're building more smart and green devices which use, again, more solid state devices. I can't stress this anymore that not all EMP pulses are the same. You have basically built a design EMP pulse that you know experimentally is very detrimental to any type of electronics, solid state electronics. Again, you're going after the transistors, the integrated, so you're not going after the resistors or capacitors because you would need a significantly higher power level for that, and you don't have to do it. I mean, you just go after the intelligence. You really don't have to go after anything else. The pulse width, the pulse rise time, the pulse rate, how many pulses per minute or second, harmonics, harmonics are very, very important. You want something extremely harmonic rich. Frequency, contrary to what most people think that if you use microwaves to disable device, actually they seem to be much more susceptible for under 10 megahertz. And I do have, I don't have references in here, I should have put it, but there's references from something known as the old crows. It's something done in Australia and that was the only reference which validated what experimentally I observed. Byzantine faults, they're large real-time distributive systems. Byzantine fault tolerance and recovery has a number of processes. T is a number of corrupted processes which is only possible if N is greater than 3T plus 1. It basically works out that if you have 100 devices and more than 30 of them are giving erroneous readings you have a serious problem. This comes more to effect if you have a serious real-time systems, fly by wire, any type of real-time process control, chemical process control where there's a real issue with just correct computing. This video is not very easy. You see me plugging this 3-prong adapter connected wire to it, then I'm going to plug it into a 3-prong adapter into an outlet connected to a metal box and the wire I'm going to connect to one part of my spark app. This is basically proof of concepts that you can inject these pulses into wires. Unfortunately this video is not that good but at the end you will see that this pulse. I'm still doing it, I just had to get my wife to take the video camera. What I was trying to do was video everything by holding the camera in my hand while I was doing it. The problem is I have so many video camera and the Sony video camera did not want to be that close to things that were in pulse. I had problems with it. Well, yeah, I mean it did not want to be that close. Probably I aged the video camera too. I don't know how much. She's got to zoom in more. I guess you really can't see it. Now can you see it? Can you see the numbers appearing and disappearing? Yes. This is just like more of a proof of concepts that you can inject pulses into conductors or into the electric grid if you want to disable that. It has a metal box because I live in New York City. New York City has a very strict housing code because you live on top of each other and they don't use plastic boxes there even for residential constructs. They use a metal box. A supervised control and data acquisition again, large real-time descriptive systems controls chemical water, oil, power systems, grid. Large mix of smart and dumb devices. Again, you have fuzzing of dumb devices. Fuzzing of dumb devices, again, you get an erroneous readings and whatever edits that are actually in the year programs, however it responds. Going green, green buses, I'll say controls, green cars. Everything that we go as we try to go green or smart, it's vulnerable. Robotic trains. The DC Metro train is actually a robotic train. It's a train that has an operator and it has a communication system that communicates where it is with respect to other trains on the system. And there was recent crash of it. The L train in New York City is also going with the same system. There's a problem in that the third rail shoes awk. I don't know if you've taken subway systems or subway systems in New York City with a third rail to awk. When they awk, they generate a pulse into the system. And even if the electronics is protected with a pulse compensating materials or whatever else if it's injected into the electrical system there's not too much you can do about it. There's not really a way that you can adequately filter that. I have another video here that I'm injecting the pulses into a pulse actually a surge protector. I covered all the names. I'm not really using a surge protector correctly as it should be used, but I have the surge protector there. Look if you're going to create malicious pulses, malicious electromagnetic interference there's nothing that on the market you're going to buy that's going to stop somebody from if they know what they're doing, if they know the frequency spectrum or how to create it they will create a problem for you. And I turn the march generator on and you see zero in there and as I move it you see whatever else. It's not pretty. I mean hospitals especially would be very susceptible to this type of attack. And again you could either inject it in the basement of the hospital, you inject some of the outlets, the grounding, the grounding why is one of the best places to inject it. FlybyY, actually this is the thing that got me interested in the work that NASA was doing in electrical interference with controls in a commercial jet. And FlybyY seemed like they were just going in the wrong direction. They're making the machines too smart and too susceptible. There's two different versions of FlybyY. The Boeing version is the pilot is always in control. The Airbus version is the computer is in control. There's a small envelope that the pilot can actually maneuver his jet through. You know my prediction with that is that that would be a major disaster running Airbus. Boeing is in my opinion the better way to go. Again FlybyY Advanced Computer Systems a lot of the devices have different operating systems somewhat different network protocols they try to make it as safe as possible. They're thinking of virus worm independence that somebody couldn't upload it but it doesn't matter if you inject the pulse to it, you're going to bring it down. You can't inject the pulse externally to an airframe. The airframe acts as type of priority shield and just goes around it. Airplanes have been hit by lightning many times. They've gone through very high radar fields with no possible no problems. If you go to the laboratory and inject it into the electrical system or even into the internal metal superstructure problems. I haven't done it but I know we'll create problems. Actually I don't want I'm not going to do it on a plane that I'm on either so but if people fly planes into buildings and do other things like that you know the TSA is not going to tell them it's a marks generator charging circuit, they're not going to say what the hell do they know I mean they're looking for explosives they're looking for doing things the old fashioned way and you're doing things the new fashioned way the TWA flight 800 it went down in long and sound and they didn't really know what happened some people said it was a rocket the official version is they had to send a fuel tank explosion if you created a pulse if you injected pulses into an airplane and let's say you brought it down it would also have an effect on the black box and the solid state memory that records all the flight information the audio tape magnetic tape of the pilot conversation it probably wouldn't have too much of an effect but it would have some effect so like the artifact that you would find is that some type of pulse dampening pulse or you might just find the memory erased what I have now is hopefully I have the right video here this is a disposable camera and before when I spoke about the flight TWA 800 I said that it took independent experimenters experimented with a 737 center fuel tank and they posted and they injected up to 75 millijoules and they found that 75 millijoules this center tank exploded all these are disposable devices confined pulse devices measured part measured the capacitance measured the voltage that I'll charge and I don't know if you see too well but I'm charging it up I don't have the video turned on but I'm charging it up and it charges about 300 volts and I measured the capacitance at well it's on the next screen but 100 microphones I think when I go to short it out again I don't have the you hear a big spark and I have a probe that I'm going to short it out and you see me jump because it is quite a whopper I've gotten burned more on these than I have gotten burned on a Marx generator or anything else yeah that's why I said no I mean it really is a loud these pulses produce loud noises industrial labs where they do generate large pulses high voltage pulses you will get over 130 decibels which will hurt your ears here I'm giving you the formula on the power and joules the capacitance of the voltage yeah I did that I measured one or two microfarads the voltage is 300 volts and it comes out to approximately 4.5 joules so a little camera like this still has enough potential to explode a shield tank in a jet the airfrans I just recently went down they didn't recover the black box it would have been interesting I know that groups that are working on pulses and possibly using their airplanes or jets from just information I've been able to put together from different blogs I know jet scenes are working on it I don't know of any other group that's working on it certainly not any Arab group that I've come across but you know that Air France was an interesting story and I hope they recover the black box I'd like to see if they did find any type of ringing the other thing is that if let's say you pulse one of these flabby wire airplanes what do you think would happen my guess is that the jet would make violent movements and maybe the tail of the wings would come off and it basically would crash down from there it's almost like a Apollo 13 that Apollo 13 was the Apollo flight that the air tank, the oxygen tank would hold it on and it caused it to go out of control the thing is that there was no atmosphere in space so even though it wasn't making violent it was not breaking apart and again the telemetry and everything else they couldn't really put together what happened until they reworked pictures of the damaged craft and figured out what happened hospitals are very microprocessor rich hospitals are probably the most microprocessor rich of any type of entity that we have here, aside from that's a flabby wire plane you have ventilators, you have patient monitoring you have combination of dumb devices smart devices again if you'd start injecting pulses into the electrical system they would not be able to restart or try to reboot everything at one time and if the patient was actually on a ventilator or a hot-lung machine they'd probably pass away that's probably something more for somebody who was extortionist would try the power grid next year at DEF CON 18 I'm going to do a full talk on the power grid how it works I'm talking about AC power grid, how it works it's basically a living type of entity it has to maintain a type of homeostasis the frequency between generators has to be tightly monitored the reactance the capacitance the transience, any type of wave that's occurring in the grid has to be dampened out in the United States we have three major power grids we have the east grid the west grid and the texas grid from the type of attack that I'm talking about the texas grid is independent of anything like what I'm talking about an attack it's independent because it's not coupled through AC power lines it's coupled through direct current power lines so if I try to inject pulses into the grid it probably won't have effect on that it might have effect on the high voltage rectifiers that rectify the AC going to the DC for the texas I'm not sure again we have a high voltage AC grid we have high voltage DC grids power quality power quality is very important inductance happens from an inductor a wire wrapped around some type of ferromagnetic material capacitance, capacitor stores up charge harmonics, harmonics are very important in the system the frequency stability very important the video that Homeland Security did showing that generator that was actually burnt up they said somebody hacked into the supervisor control data acquisition generator was diesel generator it probably they ran it let's say a 58 hertz on a 60 hertz system and it destroyed itself transients again the gadget I think you can bring the grid down with about 20 to 30 different gadgets probably cost between $25,000 $35,000 about 60% of it would be based on the Tesla coil you can create it using a solid state devices MOSFET RGBT you also create it using tubes the A33A vacuum tube is a big monster tube the positive thing about using a tube is tubes and electromagnetic devices electromechanical devices are immune to pulses in other words you could run it and run it anything if you create it using solid state devices eventually they'll die eventually you'll have enough power reflected back from the grid into it and it will destroy it grid stresses the grid actually has a number of stresses a new network worm could be a stress for the grid new windows viruses the Microsoft change cycle weather and checking pulses in the grid the time of day 5pm is a good time for the grid to have a power blackout winter summer that again is a high stressor for the grid again bring down North Mac power grid 20 to 30 devices distribute over weak nodes there are actually weak nodes in the grid where these nodes if these nodes fail other nodes will come down it will have a cascading effect there are some nodes that are not weak at all they are relatively strong there are some nodes where a lot of power goes through them interconnected with other regions and they have a high failure rate you just basically push it over the edge and again this is a system that has to maintain homeostasis a system that is really always in a metastable state it can be at any one time I'd disturb from that state each device would have to be tuned this is very doable although I don't know anybody who has done it yet and let me show you the list this is my kilowatt meter that I have down there and I didn't intentionally pulse it or anything else and it plugged into the power my visual meter reads 126 volts and this is reading like 201 to or 8 and just pressing different power buttons indicating totally erroneous results this was not intentional this was in the general area where I was doing things and this was about 10 feet away from everything and I was very surprised I would have taken farther, farther away actually my Sony video camera I probably should have done something different with it because it did have a lot of hiccups when I was doing videos but again this is defective now I'm going to do another one and be a lot more careful when DEF CON 18 I'm going to do a talk on how the power grid works most of this information is readily available on the internet I'm going to put it together and much more detailed and I will put together either I will build a device that I believe I can take the grid down with or at least talk about it Tesla coil is easy to build much more difficult and I work by myself and I have my own limit funds but it's very doable again Tesla's bigger coils of a bolder Colorado took down the electric power AC powerhouse that was powering it magnetic storms have also taken down parts of the grid so it's just a question instead of an external source I'm injecting the pulses directly into it that's it for now and I probably finished early so and instead of going to the other room does anybody have any questions I guess not one other thing that this information is readily available on the internet I mean you build your own device they may be better sources than I'd rather people build their own devices and show it to me next year and this way I could learn something from them but this is all readily available the box generator the power the charging target everything one interesting thing is that if you do bring down the power grid as I said this is not going to be a power blackout this is going to be power outage because you're actually destroying equipment on the grid when you start injecting pulses the first thing to go down will be the super-短 control and data acquisition system that monitors the grid in other words they will not know what voltage is what lines are up or whatever else yes what I have no idea if somebody is creating the right of pulse I could create a generic pulse and pulse something and I have no effect I can create a pulse and again I said the pulse parameters are very important there's not one pulse that will bring it out there's certain pulse rate harmonics frequency range power range that you really need one other thing is that I'm also doing a longer term study of New York City what happens if the power goes on for an extended period of time and I'm talking about a week, over three days to a week and believe it or not one of the first problems you can have in New York City is cholera epidemic the reason being is that in New York City most people live in apartment buildings the water actually has to be pumped up to a top tank, a wooden tank on the top of the building to provide water for everybody we have a gravity-fed system that only goes about two or three stories sorry, go ahead you can protect it but if it's grounded into the same system that I'm pulsing into it's not going to help you I'm basically talking about using the ground I found the ground is the best thing it is like an open invitation to go into a device yes, as high as possible yes there are problems when you create a Marx generator there are problems that you have when you create higher voltages that the air field the air AIR breaks down, the electric strength breaks down and also I felt that for what I need the Tesla coil would be more controllable because I'm talking about creating anywhere from 100,000 volts to more but I'm also going to pulse it I'm not going to continuously feed it into the grid this is all experiential this is what I've observed what I think will work interestingly enough the cable box I demonstrated the cable box did I? the cable box was almost all metal and I also found another thing that I've had some other things that the box was all metal and I would think that it would act as a further gauge and I found I was able to pulse it and bring it down the only thought I could have is I must have injected enough of an energized charge into the external shell that it re-radiated the charge internally and externally and it brought the CPU down so in other words the Faraday shields may not be as they may have been tested in such a limited way that if someone is trying to create destructive pulses and does a wide range of experiments they may find that these Faraday shields do not hold I hope that answers the question yes it's difficult because the power grid is very parallel they have a they actually have a grid a wiring so that if one set of feeders burn out, others feeders will take over you probably localize them in some area but like New York City I'd say that I need about five or six machines so you probably locate them they're in Brooklyn or Queens or Bronx or whatever else I don't think you do much closer than that basically this is like the internet nobody thinks of the power grid as being something that you can exploit you just plug things in and nobody thinks that hey, maybe somebody could inject something that creates damage by the way if you inject these pulses to the power grid you're taking down all of your neighbors and all the other people's devices too that's the other effect I'm sorry first of all if it's wireless it's one over all squared they fall very rapidly what I found is that if I'm pulsing something and let's say in my house I have beams that are both wood and metal the metal also becomes a conductor and the metal it also travels I found that there's a high issue of fratricide in other words you're burning a lot of other things out inadvertently like that kilowatt meter and again my Sony video cam I hope it's going to last and I was actually shielding my body, my body was not that effective anybody else? yeah if I use it for a Tesla coil I would not try to control the pulse rate through the coil itself I try to control the pulse rate through some type of magnetic mechanical device that is basically arced in other words some type of rotating device so I would not have the Tesla coil continuously arcing out solid state devices are a big problem I'm not sure how I'm going to do this I'm probably going to have to go with the vacuum tubes just so that because solid state devices they're going to fail and I don't know when they're going to fail and by the way if you do do this I talk about MOSFEDs power transistors 555 timers buy a whole load of them because you're going to start things are going to go down on you just like that, you're not going to also use batteries don't use an electric power supply or regulated power supply because that power supply is going to go down what happens is that unless you have the impedance matched up perfectly part of that pulse is being reflected back at your equipment and into the 110 wiring of your building use batteries period but the solid state device I would not try to control through that I try through a mechanical type of switch I'm not sure yet I know it will work the trouble is that I don't know how to test it I don't have a test environment that I can test it in and I do know people who do build Tesla coils for a hobby and I do know of cases where they into the cable system and the electrical system and what's happened is that they did take down a lot of infrastructure but generally the cable company electrical company they describe it as some type of fake lightning some type of strange lightning so usually if that has that arc over happens you're going to be very quiet about it I mean if you have an arc over and let's say there's a hospital nearby they're going to get some type of pulse and you don't want people from the power company or the cable company want to sue you or sue your home owner's insurance because this happens and if you do go to some of these Tesla meet, Tesla meets and everything else you will hear some anecdotal stories nobody will say yeah it happened my coil because it's always described to some type of rare lightning because the engineers at the other end they don't realize this happens I'm sorry I haven't yes how does this work at digital locks I don't know my guess is a digital lock it's probably a small device and it would fail it would go to the failure mode where it would lock that's my guess I haven't tested it anyone else I think the question was what happens when lightning strikes a power line what else will they have lightning poles on power stations where they have let's say they bring a 138 kilovolt line in they have long poles so that if lightning strikes it strikes the pole there are also lightning arrestors there are a number of devices with this Tesla coil you cannot automatically put a million volts into the grid because what you'll just do is arc over you basically have to sneak up with it sneak up with the voltage and the pulse rate what you want to do is take down the supervised and controlled data acquisition systems which is the weakest and that will go down transformers will ultimately go down what will happen is you have a step down transformer but on the low side the low power side you put in high voltage so it's being stepped up tremendously on the other side but what will happen is these transformers these pole pigs is that you'll eventually break down the insulation and you'll have a capacitance also type of effect where you'll still be induced enough to get the pulse into the wiring anyone else? I think the question was couldn't you harden the supervised and controlled data acquisition systems I don't think so because I don't think that this is an attack that anybody on the drawing would ever thought of I could be wrong but there is data out there where these grids have had problems with men made and also natural sources anybody else? I don't think they can well okay how do you think you can defend against it? do you have an idea? I don't think so because this is like an attack that coming from a vector or methodology that nobody thought of before although I did run this by some people with PhDs in physics and electrical engineering and they wonder why wow they never had that idea before you can make a lot of money as a terrorist or go into a well this is very asymmetrical for about $50,000 you can build a lot of these devices and you can take down a multi trillion dollar economy like the United States and as I said if New York City doesn't have power there's no water in the buildings if there's no water in buildings for a period of more than 72 hours you have a cholera epidemic who would think a cholera epidemic in New York City? I mean like this is just but if anybody has an idea of how you can defend against this let me know and you can make a lot of money with power companies anybody else? yes how can you how can you utilize neutralize? okay that's again how do you defend against it I don't know but you got to realize the United States is looking to and they have actually an EMP group that is trying to defend the United States against an EMP attack an electromagnetic pulse attack and I think as Edward Teller who is one of the nuclear physicists he theorized that if you set up an H-bomb I think about 400 kilometers above Omaha, Nebraska you create a pulse that will wipe out all the electronic control systems in the United States well this is sort of a cheap system to wipe out the grid I mean you don't need a hydrogen bomb you just need about $50,000, $60,000 and other people who are going to work with you and it's tremendously asymmetrical and again there is a historical basis for it but nobody has ever thought of it before I mean the people that I've spoken to who do have events degrees and they're familiar with physics or engineering they said wow, why nobody thought of that before and if somebody has a degree and they say this is just bullshit what I'm saying tell me now yes, sorry I would say more than a million fold because first of all a hydrogen bomb is a very powerful source but its power is going off as 1 over r squared it's decreasing very rapidly as distance I'm injecting into electrical cable that's a conductor so it doesn't attenuate according to the mix inductance, capacitance, resistance clumping of the wire and it dissipates much more slowly but you're probably talking to a water magnet over a million, probably far larger than that excuse me, sorry it may explain it at the pulses but again I'm not doing it through air if you do the pulse through air you need a hydrogen bomb I'm doing it on the cheap I'm doing it through electrical system that already exists that basically is not protected from this type of attack and as I said it's tremendously asymmetrical the feedback they got is why didn't anybody ever think of that before anyone else? okay, I ran out of time sorry about that