 Inside Leather History, a fireside chat. My name is Douglas O'Keefe. I am the post and producer of the chats, along with mistress Joanne Gaddy. The fireside chats are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today, I am sitting down for an interview with sister, Mary Reed, who is in Poznan, Poland. You are the first person from Poland to be part of the fireside chats. Oh, yes, I am from Poznan, Poland. And yes, I think maybe it's still very well. It's the first time, I think. It will be great to see other fetishes or something like that in Poland, of course. Tell me a little about your growing up and your life in Poland. OK, Poland is quite homophobic, this is the country. But I have this quite happy life, because I grew up with a great family, especially my mother. She was supporting me. When I was in high school, boys used to sleep in my bed. My mother gave us breakfast for the bed, for example. And then I never need to come in and out in my family. Because it always was normal for my family. And it's quite universal in Poland, because we see very different stories about this here. But I have very, very happy childhood. When you were growing up, how did you know about being gay? There were some problems, but not obvious. I think society was ignoring this mostly then. It was better than now in Poland, I think, even. It was always much more homophobic situation than now. Tell me more about that a little bit, because how was gay information during the communist time? We were behind the iron curtain. And in Poland, in fact, we don't have sexual evolution. When the West and America are going to the sexual evolution, in Poland and probably in the other countries around, we don't have this, because this information was very, very... We're going to Poland about some sexual life. And it's... When we, in Poland, when we have some... When we struggle with this communism and when we fight over this, then we had some other thing, we had a pope in Poland. Pope John Paul II was from Poland, but we had the pope. And also, like, for example, Czech Republic. Then they're free from communism and they go through the sexual evolution. But in Poland, we don't, because we had the pope and we cannot. Did you have... Sorry, did you have magazines that you could see or newspapers? If the magazines was... The first magazines, I think, it's about 1991, 93. This year was the first, first magazine was appears in Poland. Yes, we have some magazines and... But it's quite hard to buy these magazines, I think, in Poland. How did men meet during the communist time? Each city has its own place to meet. Sometimes there is one in the restaurants or also in pubs also. For example, here in Poznań, we have some very old gay pubs. We have... They organized this, I think, this last one of the oldest in Poland. And they're working, some of them, they're working up to today. Tell me a little bit about these clubs. There was cinema, pokusa, cinema temptation, I think, in English, temptation, yeah, because there is something like sex movie, but they become mostly gay place those times, and now it's still working here in Poznań. And we also had some saunas, for example, for gay people in Poland also. But it's, yeah, I think all the sauna in Poland starting his work, I think, about 1995. Ah, ah. Yeah, and... But before that, I think this is some place. Was it dangerous to speak of the topic when you met someone? In 90s in Poland, it's not so dangerous because, as I say, it's quite neutral to other people. Most of them are ignoring this topic. But nowadays it depends where in Poland nowadays. Well, let's talk a little bit about that because how is the gay life in Poland today? When I go through Poland as a sister, I feel this very, very personal. For example, here, we have in Poznań, we have, Poznań is the most open city, I think, in Poland. The other west part of Poland is quite open. But in Warsaw, in our capital, we have some problems. For example, here in Poznań, when I was going through the streets, most of the people wanted to take a picture with me or something like that. But in Warsaw, I think I can feel quite safe, but the people try to avoid me. For example, when I go into the street, they go in the opposite way because they don't want to pass me on the street. It is in Warsaw. And of course Warsaw is not the most east of Poland. Even further, for example, in Białystok last week, I was in Białystok, there's a second Equality March, and there I can't go on the street alone. There were so many people that didn't agree with this, and it's not safe in Białystok. Okay, we will take one step back. You were at Białystok? Yes. Okay. And you said you went there two years ago? Yes. Okay. There was a Equality March. A Equality March is like Pride, it's a local Pride. Equality March, okay. Equality March. And in fact, two years ago, it's not a simple march, but it's a, I don't know, it's a good war, but I think it's a war, we call it a protest. Fighting with this, we fight to go through the city. A protest, I think, you mean? Yes, yes, it's called Jemosan's throw at us the stones, the firecracks, and the other. And it's very, I think, you know, for many young people, it was there, it's a terrible time, and it was one of the worst Equality Marches in Poland in that time. But this year, it was great. It's, there was good music, people were dancing on the streets, and it's quite different. I think it was, in many aspects, it's a different city after these two years, and it's thanks for the local organization in the East of, they made such big work to change this city. Is there a lot of Pride marches, a lot of Pride events in Poland? Yes, yes, I think it's year by year, it's more and more. Of course, last year was a COVID epidemic, and this wasn't any marches. But two years ago, we have march every weekend from May to September to, I think, to October, I think is we have every weekend in once of the city was the Equality March. I try to go every, on every Equality March, and I cannot because some of them was in the same time, of course, but I think it's about 30 marches in 2019, and last year wasn't many, but there was a few. OK. But each of these marches was different. As a sister, I'm doing some of Equality March, I'm doing different work. For example, in this march in Białystok two years ago, my job was, for example, hugging these people who was frightened by the condominium and going and talking with them. And for example, in Warsaw, I spreading condoms on this march because there's much more joy. And one of the goals of the sisters is spreading universal joy and then try to do this in Warsaw by some events and also spreading some condoms, for example. How is Poland managing HIV? It's, of course, one of them. I think we have very good doctors for this. And even in Europe, we have mostly very good treatment for HIV. But in Poland, we have very, there is a problem with education and with testing with some prevention of HIV. We have, for example, PrEP, but only in the biggest cities and not free, you need to pay for it. As a sister, I try to educate people about under the tables and about something new information about HIV because when we don't have proper education, we grow up on some films, for example. But films about HIV is mostly about the past time when the people died on AIDS. And most of the people think that this is still the same. But today, it's in different times about HIV. How are you educating them? The most time, as a sister, I go into the clubs, not only in Poznań, but in other cities also, mostly in the West part of this country. And we're talking with people spreading condoms about spreading packets for the hemisex because it's also quite popular in Poland. I'm sorry, what sex? Hemisex. Hemisex, OK. Hemisex. It's also, I think, it's become quite a problematic way because in Poland, we are about two or three years after this West of Europe. And for example, in Holland, they have this problem three years ago. And now they quite look at it. And it's not a very big problem. So here in Poland, we can learn about what it's a way to using hemisex safely. And it's quite, but I think it's the most, I do this education in places where the people using them in the clubs, in some places, some other places when they're using. When you are trying to do education, you are trying to have them use a condom. How do the men react to this? Last month, I was in Warsaw. I was spreading condoms on the street. And then one young boy, I think I don't know how it worked, he was here. But he take one. Then after five minutes, go take another one and another. And then he told that it's only for my father in and take another one and another. And I asked, how many fathers you have? Yeah, it's quite different sometimes. Of course, yeah, but the most problem here in Poland is, as I mentioned, our government. Because in fact, we can't spreading this condom, spreading sterile needles for them and other things. Our government forbids to do this. Because they think if we spread the condoms, we engage people to have sex. But it's completely different, of course. And I think it's a problem with our government because they don't give us money for the education because we spread the condoms. Now, tell me about the clubs in Poznań and Warsaw and other cities. Do you have an active fetish scene? Yes, yes, we have fetishes in the clubs or the place for them also. But I think this scene is quite the most... Society is the most strong place for Polish beers. I don't know, it's not a fetish himself. Because it's not a proper fetish. I think Chaser is a fetish for this. Not exactly bears, but we have quite strong organization for Polish bears. We have some, for example, here in Poznań, we have also club and some scene for sneakers. Yes. Also. It's not my fetish, but as a sister, I like to go there and observe how they behave. Because this is very interesting also. How is it interesting? For the sneakers, other things are important. For example, the socks and then they interchange some... Stomping, for example, with some... Stomping is going in socks on the other guy's chest. It's stomping. Sorry, I don't understand. Stomping. I don't know, I don't... Properly spell it. Stomping, it's... Yes, to stomp, but... Stomp on the chest on the other guy. You can go to socks, feet on the other... And in this club, for example, they have a special place for this. Special bed and the hanks on the ceiling that you can do this safely. Oh, fun. Okay. And some other things. For example, they have a place to meet each other. They go from everywhere in Poland. And it's a place where they can be in their group, their own group. So, you mentioned there is, of course, the puppy scene. There is the sneaker scene. You mentioned the leather organization broke up. But in the big cities of Poland, are there fetish play spaces? Are there leather bars? There are one in Warsaw. Here in Poland, we have leather clappings in the bar. And I think it's all. Sometimes in Rotswald, it's also a place where they have some leather clappings. It's LGBT clappings, but they sometimes organize some events for leather. In Warsaw, we have also rubber community. For example, I think three years ago, our Polish rubber was Mr. Rubber of the World. Yes, Mr. International Rubber. Yes. And he's from Poland, and it's great success for them. Let's talk more about the sisters in Poland. How many sisters are in Poland? Not so simple question. We have some sisters which resign. For example, the first sister in Poland was sister Bernadette. And she was taken to the court because they abuse about the religious feelings. We have in Poland, you have the law that you can abuse the religious feelings of some people. Oh, upset. And she was taken to the court. Of course, they are not guilty of this, but she resigns about it. We have some sisters also in Kraków in Poland. But they work about a year or two, and also now they don't work. And we have, yeah, but now from the active sisters are, I think are five, including me. I am the only full-professor sisters nowadays. I'm sorry. Full-professed sisters, yeah. Full-professed, okay. And in Warsaw, there was three novice sisters and one postulant sister. Why did the sisters of Kraków quit? I don't know. I think in Poland we have very, we have problem with long-term engagement in some, some even, some, some problems. For example, of the equality marches in Poznań. We, year to year, we have, we have a big group of volunteers for this march, but they are only on the one season. And the next season they don't go another, and they are different. It's okay because, you know, some, some people want to help once and then okay. But, but for the sisters, the very important thing is, it's a long-time engagement, yeah, because even to become sisters, this long process is usually about two years, I think, to become sister. And yeah, it's, it's a, I don't know why, but in Poland it's a big problem with this long-term engagement for this. Where is your abbey? I think in Berlin, in Berlin, I am in, with sisters, sister Daphne is my, sister Daphne from Berlin is my, I think, maybe like my mother or sister in this, this. Do you think that your work is successful in Poland? Yes, mostly yes, yes, sometimes. I think, yes, you know, I try to, to be as many as I can on the whole country, not only in Poznań. I'm not closing to Poznań because I think in Poznań we have such open society that we, we have quite big success here. But, but I try to go to the east parts of the country and, and working there. And I think it's a lot of them. Yeah, it's, I think that we have some, some success in other places. Now, the leather and fetish scene in Poland has, how can I say, it has a struggle because of the society, because of the government of Poland. How do the leathermen, the puppies, the rubbermen, how do they succeed in Poland? Well, then this is the, the work what we should do, yeah, in, in Poland, because we see that in Poznań it's, it's working. And I think in other cities will also be work. Sometimes it starts working also. So Poland is a very religious country, yes? So how do the fetish people of Poland manage that issue? It's a problem because, you know, we have read the Pope and the Pope we saw all the time that there's our site and we have many place where we, for example, it's a, I think it's 943 p.m. In Poland on the streets, it can be abused about religious feelings. Why? Because it's a time when the Pope died. And in Poland, we cannot play at this time every day with a, it's a very big problem, for example, because last year we have a, we have a big event on the streets in Poznań. And we dance in the streets and at this time we cannot, because it's a signed hour for this, the Pope was died about. What do you want people to remember about your work in Poland today? It's a hard question because I also like this, these Berlin sisters, I change my work. Every year I do something, something in a different way because still I was looking for the best thing I can do here in Poland. So in five years, what work do you want to do in five years? I want to be happy to do, for example, I'm happy, we have some marriage equality in five years and can organize some weddings like in Berlin sisters, organize their weddings in Poznań, for example, and these beautiful ceremonies and I would like to do this here in Poland in five years, I think. Do you think you will have gay marriage then? Yes, I think it's in, I think it's very, Poland is in European Union and I think it's very good for Poland because European Union have strong influence on Poland politics even for this homophobic government now. And I think it's possible to do this in five years, I think. I hope so, I hope so. Well, Sister Mary Reed, what a pleasure to have you as part of Inside Letter History and Fireside Chat.