 A very good evening to you and thank you so much for sticking to Y254 TV. My name is Sheryl Blessing and this is Power Talk. Now this evening we want to end period stigma. This is a conversation that in recent months has been held in so many spaces and tonight we want to understand what is the root of period stigma and how can we overcome this and joining me in studio I have Faith Anmoura who is a health specialist, Karibu Sanna. Right next to her we have Ian Ziver who is a journalist, Karibu Iyana and finally we have Janet Kaburu who is a marketing specialist, Karibu Janet. So as you can see we have a very mixed panel of ladies and gentlemen and we want to tackle this conversation, understand the take of both genders on how we can end period stigma and how we overcome this demon that prevails in society. Now I'd like to hear from you as well so you can go on our social media platforms which is at Y254. Go on our platforms, send us your opinion, write a question, share an experience that you've had where you have been stigmatized or you have misunderstood what periods are. So to kick start the conversation let us start from the grassroots, the conception of periods, how we started having periods. So Janet can you tell us what was your very first experience of having your period? Okay my first experience I did not expect it first of all you know most of the girls that are of my age started their periods when they were in primary school class 8, class 7 but mine actually came late when I was in from 1 from 2 so it was a bit stigma because people were always talking about their periods and then I not yet received my period so for me it's vice versa, mine were a bit late and some even come earlier. And that's a very unique experience because you expect to have your periods when you're in maybe class 7, class 8, 13, 12, that's when you start so when it comes later there's this stigma of why haven't you started yet, that's a very good perspective and we'll tackle that later on. Ian let's get a gentleman's perspective. Someone was asking right before we started what is the relevance of a gentleman to this conversation and we want to understand the role that men play so what was your first experience with a friend or a lady having periods when you first heard about them or even understood the concept of what periods were? Sheryl thanks so much I'm grateful to be here but I think my first experience was when I was still in primary school, class 8 to be exact, my deskmate got her periods. You know at that time you're still at a tender age, you're freaking out all of a sudden you don't really understand this but then there was a class teacher of mine, she was female, she came to her but she never explained about it so I think from that step that I think that really bodes for misinformation from the male side so I think I'm here maybe just to shed some light on maybe informing the male side of the male aspect, the male spectrum because most of the times when we get activists most of them are female or all of them are female, we don't get any collaboration from their male counterparts so I think I'm here maybe just to widen the scope a little bit and that's important you've brought up a very interesting issue, first that there was no information at all there was no clarification of what happened and secondly the importance of male counterparts in this conversation because it's both male and female who deal with periods if we're being realistic so we want to understand how men play a role in this conversation as well so lastly Faith Aydna, were you informed, did you have any idea of what periods were what to expect before your first periods? I would say I was very much educated about administration and my first experience was actually very interesting because I was very happy I'm having experience in my first administration I rent the washroom and when I okay I felt something weird and I just rushed there and then I saw you know some spots and I was very happy because in I'm now I turned because I was you know feeling like I'm now turning to a lady, I'm now a grown woman so I was very happy and I wouldn't say there was some sort of stigma from how I've been raised and maybe how my teachers taught me and even at home my parents also used to like tell me if this happens is what you do and I used to always carry a pack of of my pads even without experiencing them so I was quite educated about it so I was very much enlightened about administration even before I began mine yeah I like that and from the get go we can see that all our guests have very different experiences of their inception into periods so Faith Aydna since you were educated and you knew what to expect and you were prepared did it not come as a surprise when it first started? it did and not that much of a bad surprise it was like now you know you're now something else you know a grown lady now this is how it was some sort of a nice experience for me it didn't catch me by surprise like you know boom like you didn't know what this is you've always been told about it so I had some information about administration and I wouldn't say it was that much of a surprise to me or maybe something that I would say caught me off guard I knew about it and I had had about it and I was ready to experience it you were ready for your mentors yeah and that's really really good because most people are not prepared at all yeah or you can find that some cases where girls buy pads but they've never had their menses so every time when they're going to school the parents will include that in the shopping list but they've not experienced this yet did you have a similar situation did you have a situation where your parents will just buy pads for you and you've never had your menses? yeah yeah since my my my periods were a bit delayed I got them in form too so I was like girls were having their menses I was just feeling all done out and sometimes out of nowhere the pads just to to experience what they've been experiencing so I'll prepare myself my parents would always make sure I carry the pads to school just in case it happens okay yes and that's really really good so in your cases you were ready in in one way or another yes did you have a conversation with anyone about faith and you probably had a conversation before your mentors started yeah who gave you the talk was it your parent a friend um I would say it started off with my teacher in school yeah we were taught it was I was in class seven so we're taught all about the changes in administration and all that so the first time I heard about it was from my teacher but also at home my my elder sister used to like educate me and tell me this happens is how you place a pad on a plant this is how you do all that I was taught the hygiene administration from a school level and also at home well I wouldn't say my parents like my mom but my elder sister took that chance and educated me and enlightened me on what happens and how you clean yourself how you make sure you have an extra pad in everything else so yeah I was quite introduced to the journey earlier so it it would help if you have an elder sister an elder cousin who's experienced it before you and Ian what would you say or who would you say rather is the person who's in charge of educating both male and female because we learn about sexual reproductive health maybe in class six who would you say should take the role of educating people on mentors I think this is a societal problem it doesn't really have to come down to the fact that I'm pointing out someone individually or as a group or as an organization that they are supposed to you know educate both male and female sex and also maybe even the children teenagers university students and the entire society at large but still I feel like it is just within among ourselves individually you have to learn it I have to learn it because let's face it if an if right now I'm a male maybe one day I might still have a daughter or maybe fathers out there have daughters and you know something with periods it's not choosy you might have it alone you might have it with your mom you might have it with your dad now what if you have it with your dad would you wouldn't you want him to be informed and I think that's where it all boils down each and every one of us should have adequate research so it comes from the individual you have to want to find out more information about it yeah okay now uh Janet coming back to you you say that your periods came late yeah and sometimes you would wear pads just to feel like yes you're very much a normal woman yeah so what is that that you want to feel like a normal woman you know for me I was in a girl's school so that was normal every now and then you'd see girls carry pad but you're even shy to tell them that you've not yet experienced your menstrual periods so that would be a little stigma and I think it would be better if you educated that you're still normal even when you experience your periods a bit late you don't have to experience them at an early age so it was a bit uh intimidating a little because you you may feel like you're different than the rest and like even faith and mentioned getting your periods is like your initiation into womanhood and you start feeling like now I'm grown now I'm maturing it also comes with so many issues if we're being really periods comes with hormonally imbalanced you have all the cravings you have all the mood swings yeah let me bring it to the boy child because I know sometimes guys deal with maybe girlfriends and they have mood swings and you don't understand why she has this mood swings how do you handle a girlfriend who has those those mood swings now nudge or to maybe it's her periods um maybe the best they can go for is offer emotional support I don't think there's anything that you can do other than that emotional support yeah but still because you know all this as you said earlier um the emotions are high immunolimbalance um cravings I think this uh this comes now to the male side as misogynistic because when we associate periods and women with those kinds of feelings then you start hearing a little bit of horrible slurs at women you know maybe in disagreements and that I think feels like it's somehow a cake considering we're in the 21st century right now yes I like that you've brought up that point because as women I think most of us can agree that you get into a situation where you're expressing yourself and the guy can say are you on your periods and dismiss it as emotional because how do you deal with things like that faith I would say I've experienced that much of mood swings as they say maybe with a guy I mean I have mood swings and all that but not in the presence of a guy but in some cases I've had um they tend to think that you're overreacting maybe because you don't have your periods or maybe because you have them and you're acting off and now you you start maybe again maybe having some issues over petty issues and all that but I feel at times we exaggerate like we are almost to the onset of our periods but you maybe wanting to be you want to pass another message but you want to claim it's because of the menstruation that I'm experiencing so like there's some sort of yes we experience some mood swings and all that hormonal imbalance and everything else but there's a next thing that people ladies fake and I don't think it goes along with them understanding what you're experiencing because one might exaggerate the other one maybe you know him understanding like um maybe he had a previous girlfriend who had similar and then you meet another one who's extra she overreacts and everything else and you're like I want to blame the mood swings to the cramps and everything else to the menstruation I mean but we blame the wrong things to the wrong things yes yeah so and I feel like people take it as an insult when you blame it on something even if I am on my mentors I am justified for my emotions and my actions how do you deal with that Janet let's say you're expressing yourself in your workspace and a male counterpart because I understand with the marketing field there are a lot of male people who dominate the field how can you deal with someone saying ah I'm emotional because an inertia how do you deal with or have you even encountered situations like that yes especially in my workplace where we have we have most male people they don't understand that today you've just entered the room you don't feel like treating anyone they don't understand so you need to at least tell them I'm on my period so that they can have a valid reason why you're acting the way you're acting so for me I don't have a problem telling my colleague you're I'm on a period so please don't disturb me if I sleep just let me sleep and I'm lucky enough to get men who appreciate and they don't take things those things for granted so they'll just give me my space if I need and I think it should be if someone is a period they should be feel comfortable to share that they are on your on their periods with yeah with different people yes I agree with you because most of the time when you're on your period you're very sensitive and you don't want to do too much you just want to let's get the day done and go back home yeah so Ian do you think it's important to have this open conversations with your colleagues and your friends about maybe the struggles they have during their periods if they have the hormonal imbalance and the cravings do you think people should have these conversations um yes because this all builds down now to understanding each other because we can't keep these subjects behind closed doors for long because we've kept it for centuries and still we're still keeping it in behind closed doors in the 21st century 2023 maybe I feel like this is the time that we just you know ate all out just let's whatever come let it come because this is a subject that has been long overdue we've had even days dedicated to subjects such as this we've had other panels discuss them and I feel like us as the youth in general really need now to also let our voices be heard on matters such as this yes I like that that is very well said and I want to give an example of something that was very unfortunate because of the lack of education about periods and menses there was a girl some few years back she committed suicide because she was stigmatized based on just her being on her period and she was very young she was in maybe class six class seven so faith and given that you had awareness before that would you say it was maybe your role to give other girls the same awareness in the same settings because not everyone has the same exposure is it the role of people who have the awareness to share this information with others I had him say it is a personal responsibility and I understand and support that because the stigma doesn't stop it actually we don't you know supposed to like say men bring the stigma because when I was in high school there was this experience I had someone would have a leakage of the menses and the clothes we used to wear were quite clear so would note you someone has and you get to hear some conversation from other chicks and they're like um koniha na pad koniha kwanha jua like the stigma is everywhere with ladies ourselves with men and everyone else but it's a personal responsibility I've I've learned about it I know this is what happens for men like men know is what happens and for ladies we know this is what happens don't criticize someone because you've seen them messed up and um tend to like think they're not even responsible themselves the people who have high heavy flows the people who have light flows and all that and the fact that I just licked my skirt doesn't mean I'm not responsible because I'm not even taught about menstruation and all that it's a personal responsibility you know for men they know we are experiencing this get to know like this something normal and it's healthy for the girl child so they are supposed to like learn and um get to live with it just allow yourself to be in a position to you're not compromising with it you're living with it because it will never stop and these words we have for the ladies I feel we are too much of judge judgmental people and um that should stop we are more we keep saying that men criticize us and stigmatize us for maybe leaking and not being responsible with our menstrual claim that's the hygiene but for the ladies as well we're supposed to take that like she messed up go cover up tell her these what happens if she doesn't know just educate her as though you don't know like your younger sister your elder sister and it doesn't happen because I want it to happen maybe it's just an accident yeah so it's someone's responsibility just being a position to allow yourself to learn about it and live with it because it's healthy yes it's natural it's healthy and it's beautiful even it's a very beautiful experience because it leads to motherhood and all these other things so you've brought about the aspect of women stigmatizing fellow women and we see this a lot even in your case Janet women would or your fellow girls would be like oh you've not started your periods yet what's wrong with you how can we change that or how can you address someone who is doing that actively to someone else what will you tell them to do that's different because we want to empower our fellow women okay first of all I think uh as fellow women especially as mothers we should feel comfortable speaking to our young kids at an early age because coming from uh families that we come from our parents don't feel comfortable talking about things like periods they just assume maybe the teacher will educate you and all so I think it started home each parent should take the responsibility to educate her child or the dad you know they are even single dads they should also know about that so that they can also educate their girls so that whenever I get the periods I will not feel afraid of who I'll turn to maybe I only have a dad I like I'll I'll know um I can always count on my dad to talk about these things so I think everyone should take this responsibility to know about periods and to talk about it freely so that it cannot be awkward anymore yes and you've brought a very important aspect of the family starting at home yes the parents should have these conversations with their children their grandkids all these people it needs to be a conversation that is held and in African traditional societies this is not things that people talk about your mom will not sit you down and start saying this is how you were a pad this is what happens and that's probably the root cause of the issue if you cannot have the open conversation with your mom and your aunties then who can you freely talk to and let's me bring about the aspects of people who have complicated periods because the people all all periods vary and they're irregular some are regular some are more painful than others um let me ask you yeah and I don't know if you have sisters do you have any sisters okay so let's let's maybe focus on your friends and your girlfriends have you ever experienced a situation where someone was having bad cramps because I'm sure you've had about cramping and people assume it's just this pain that is there they don't truly understand it especially men have you had a situation where someone was telling you they have very bad cramps that they don't even think they can function and what was your experience what was your first thought of even something like that what did you think about what are these cramps you know at first in a limb in limb man's terms this goes down you know maybe it's just a stomach ache so the first thing I'll do I'll get you panadol water warm water salty water yeah but I think sometimes just let someone be just let them rest or maybe if it goes if it goes a little bit further than that maybe now this really needs this turns into a serious emergency case because let's face it it's a biological thing that is happening in someone's body and if this and if there are complications to it then this needs a hospital you need to see a doctor yeah and that's I like the way you've even brought in the aspect of salt water most guys take it as that and that's why we've seen this challenge of stimulating period pain in guys so that they can experience what women experience faith since you have a bit of a background in health do you and do you think people understand the complications that may be rooted in all this pain and all this irregularities in periods do you think people truly understand what school be causing all that um yeah we have because the land biology for most of them in high school and these hormone imbalance and there is the contraction of the pelvic and all that so they know when you're having your menses that process in our uterus and everything else so they learn and know that they know they learn and know that there is a process that goes on and they need to like understand it's not cause it just happens it's a health thing and it's my it's my month for me to like shed off my eggs and everything else so at the end of the day I have to let the egg out if I'm not going to get pregnant so yeah most of the people have and know the complications but not the exact ones you know they're about the cramps and everything else but some people don't know how about some other disorders that come along with administration so like for example would say um the people bleeding heavily is a disorder lightly is also a disorder the people who experience some extreme some severe cramps that's also a disorder like people don't know but they just assume it because I'm experiencing it's because I have cramps this what happens but there's also some other diseases like endometriosis where you have some inflammation in uh uterus and everything else people don't know they need to learn and know this is what happens I might have this disorder and it could be the reason I'm having heavy extreme pain when I'm having my periods or maybe when we're having sex because it also occurs when you're having some ingrown it happens it occurs that you tend to like have pain when you're urinating when having sex and everything else so yeah people don't know and they need to like get educated about them yeah and you've also highlighted on the maybe the value of having a specialist who is in charge of your reproductive health as a woman as a lady uh Janet let me let me ask you how long did it take you to figure out your cycle how long did you know like it happens after four weeks on this date this is what happens it lasts for how long how long did it take you to to have all that down for me it took around seven months uh to figure out my cycle because sometime it would come after maybe three weeks three and a half weeks so I needed to know that you need to take some foods there's some foods that uh that promote hormonal balance so uh six months six months yeah and in this conversation where it's heading because even understanding the foods that you need the diet that you should follow all those things play a very important role in your flow yeah it took her six months to figure out her menstrual cycle so have you had an instance where you were with a girl and she had her period and she was not prepared and maybe you were in a situation where you had to go and buy the pads um I have not seen such a situation yes have any of you experienced a fate I I I don't know if I'm so happy because it happened because this day I didn't know I was having like my periods one almost so it just happened I had a leak and there was a guy next to me and um he's my friend so he noticed and Akane Lisa are you having your period I'm like I just checked and then I pun it and then I'm like no because we have the two of us one of us you know I have to go take a shower because I can't just go for the pad and he told me just go take the shower and I'll just go for the pad it was a good feeling because yeah how many men will do that I know it makes you feel like they're genuine with you right yeah did he get the right funds um yeah I had to tell him what I want and that is what he got and brought it and I was so appreciative because if I was alone maybe I could have just showered and I don't know you know you can't go out yeah yes truly so it was sort of he saved me and um it's also I also felt like he took it as as his own responsibility because at that time I can't help myself but he's here and he understand that this is normal and it happens so yeah I was very happy about it and that's a very good experience actually yeah yeah so yeah do you think you would have gotten the right pads I would because at the end of the day you are human after all because you can't just leave someone hanging it's someone you know let alone even being an acquaintance or a friend it's just someone you know someone you need at that particular time that particular moment you're the one who's near them at that particular time that particular moment that is maybe what we call fate but in short I would I would yes and I feel like this is a challenge people should do yeah taking the men to a supermarket and asking them to pick pads I feel like all of us needs to do that challenge and see if they'll pick the right ones or come out of a t-shirt or something and we all know there are also different kinds of pads and with different absorption length and whatnot when you go shopping Janet so for me uh I just went with the first thing that I saw and then remember I was in I was in high school so I didn't have I didn't have the specific there enough amount so I used my first packet so I would just carry my first packet and then so I had to borrow another pad from someone else so there's the one who has heavy flow and then light flow so uh I didn't exactly know the exact pad that I'm supposed to do but now after some time that's when you figure out what parts for you yes okay and Ian do you even know aside from pads what ladies use for their periods do you know any other alternative um I've heard of reusable pads being manufactured not even manufactured being made by people in Uganda also activists and other NGOs have also brought that model into most ASAL counties in Kenya also even the western counties because statistics show the western counties when a girl is on their periods things tend to get messy they have to pay for pads using sexual favors you know this is a topic that we really need to expound on that is true there's a lot to it and you brought up the the aspect of when people who cannot access pads every single time so they may need to rely on reusable pads so do you think it's an important initiative that they're doing yes it is because let's face it in Kenya most of the population is living below the poverty line and maybe we can call it privilege that girls here in the capital are well educated on such matters but think about a girl in Turkana right now think about a girl in Garisa these are areas that have a higher illiterate percentage so activists and NGOs I think we see why they concentrate on such counties such areas so much that's really really good and thank you I want to see before you before you add on his point let me let me ask another question so you can tie it together given that you had the information based on your elder sister's experience did she also tell you about other alternatives like tampons or menstrual cups that you can use or did she just tell you about pads I'll be honest now at that time I only knew of pads concerning the tampons and the menstrual cups names you're juicy after learning them and I guess it's because they are expensive and all that but I don't blame them it's because you know you can't afford that so you have to tampons are expensive yes yeah a cup I don't know I've never used to so but I feel there was need for them to introduce a pad before that because that is what we could afford so yeah and now that we're talking about even the expenses of tampons products for menstruation are expensive pads are expensive the tampons are expensive you can have a menstrual cup maybe that is reusable but that's also expensive and the the usage of it not everyone is aware of that how do you think maybe we can help Janet what will be your suggestion of how we can subsidize maybe this menstrual products to make them accessible to everyone for me I think right now the pad is around 120 from 50 Baba so it means that it's already not affordable to most most people because if basic hunger is not affordable what about things like pad that people don't recognize as much so I think as Kenyans we should embrace producing locally made pads to to increase their availability and then reduce price yes because most of the pads right now they are imported so the tax rate is high hence the price going up yes and most people as you said obviously will you really prioritize on buying pads no you're going to dismiss that yes and that's where Ian you brought up the issue of the NGOs and whatnot offering aids to people especially in low income societies do you think there should be an initiative or what will even propose to help these societies as far as databases are concerned NGOs are doing a particularly good job but then comes the states has the state really even considered on wavering taxes on menstrual products because even in budgets the women rep in counties are always mandated you know to take care of girls when such issues arise also plus maybe because most men are in high political offices offices of power is that maybe because all this is not being prioritized suppose maybe a senator for example we also would nominated senator gloria rober did she was kicked out of parliament but then what did it incite really it incited you know a sense of awareness in people this job started something something of a movement something of a cultural phenomenon and maybe I feel like this does not only lie squarely on the NGO's shoulders but maybe on the state elected members even members of high society even us us you know even the youth can even you know collect money even decide you know we can go visit a particular children's home because maybe they cannot afford this and what not we can donate these two prisons yeah because it's a white scope and I think this is a really broad subject and you've given a very clear example of how people can help it starts with us again it goes back to us as individuals figuring out who needs the help and how we can offer the help and the example that you gave was a very clear depiction of what happens in Kenya she was kicked out of parliament because of the stain and that is a conversation that needs to be had because you can have your periods anywhere you can be in the middle of a meeting in a matatu on the road and they start so this is something that needs to be accepted and acknowledged and how do you think faith and the the cultural norms of Africa or Kenyans have played a role in us remaining quiet about this conversation um I guess it's because we we are glad we are um told that if you're having your menstruation that you're not supposed to like expose yourself like there's that that story of um there's a certain culture that if you're having your menses you're not supposed to be in the midst of men you're not supposed to serve your dad food or anything because you you're unclean as well as I've heard of others saying that you're not supposed to go to church because you're not clean you're having you there were such stories so I guess that was 10 but right now people are embracing it and they're just making us learn that we can live with this this is what we have it's not supposed to be told we're not supposed to be like we're not supposed to give some other stigmas and also some bad norms about it something that you're supposed to embrace and live with it so yeah there are norms and other things but we are living with them and that is what we're supposed to be doing because at the end of the day we are ladies that is what ladies do that is how we explain it's it's biologically that's art that's what we're experiencing and we should be more educated and learn that this is what happens this is how you're supposed to like take care of yourself and everything else but the stigma is still there no matter how much you're going to educate people they're going to feel stigmatize us because some lack their knowledge maybe the way we are creating awareness is not bold enough to reach to other people so yeah I feel we need to make people learn create awareness and also buy those campaigns maybe and giving out parts in everything else and also educate the young ones who are just growing up and make them understand this happens and this is how you're supposed to handle it yeah and that's also rooted in religion to some extent because there was a aspect of the bible saying that when you're unclean you're not supposed to step in the tent of the lord and do this and do that Janet do you think that is still something that stays in the minds of maybe older generations and is affecting younger generations today yes I think as long as it's in religion in our cultures you're not supposed to handle certain things you're not even supposed to go to church so it's still an issue which people should eliminate each other and then educate one another that should not be an issue and going to church yes and also there's the aspect of when we talk about cultural backgrounds and all these beliefs there's the belief of when you've gotten your period you're a woman therefore you should be married and that's why we have some communities such as the masai and maybe the the samburu who will give a woman or a child rather to marriage because she has started her periods ian do you think as a man would you support this ideology that once you've gotten your period now you're a woman go get married go have children um no because most girls tend to get their periods when they are 13 maybe even 15 and I feel like this poses a really a really grave health risk because if you try to conceive with a kid who's who's barely even 17 you risk you are at a risk of them getting obstetric fibriosis now that will really complicate matters even in future and they want to have kids I feel like we are we should not really put that weight on our kids we shouldn't put that weight on the girl child because let's face it just like the males they also have to complete their education they also have dreams let's not limit them just due to biological factors in their lives that you know you are created for this this is your place in society nothing else for you and I'd really like to say there's a book titled blossoms of the savannah in high school I think I did it in high school I feel like this book really illuminated this what we're actually talking about right now it really illuminated it because girls they are hard dreams they needed to go to university they need to finish they had big dreams for their careers but some factors really held them back and I feel like that's not right at all yes there needs to be a change of that mentality and you've also you've taken us back to the part of the conversation where I wanted us to talk about the specialists gynaecologists having even therapists and reproductive health doctors who can help you through understanding your body and your biology faith and would you say it's important for ladies to have gynaecologists yeah it's important like from a tender age like maybe the people who get their periods at the age of nine there was such a case at nine a lady received her got her periods and I feel you need to learn more about your reproductive health at a tender age maybe from 15 maybe before or after you begin your period so there's need for them to learn more about their health and maybe seek for more advice more checkups from the gynaes and all that there's need be yeah and also we we should understand that health is an investment yes and you have to prioritize your health Janet would you say or brother what would you how would you recommend people to find resources on the gynaecologists and reproductive health specialists and even understanding how to take care of yourself during your menstrual period how can you advise people to get access to this information uh first of all I think that should be an important topic which is covered in all schools and she she had said that their teacher told them how to put on pads and all that it's not in all school maybe were you in a private school no she was fortunate by you are you are lucky because not all schools that are taught how to put on a pads some things you just figure out they just assume maybe you will know you'll ask your friends and I think this is an important matter people should not assume and then they also need to have like a nurse in a high school or in a private uh primary setup so that if you if you're having your periods you can see a nurse if your symptoms are severe you can rush to someone for assistance yes and that's very helpful and as as she's just said fatal was lucky because most ladies do not have access to this information I personally I think I found out through my peers they're like this is how you wear a pad and life went on um um Ian would you say you have information because this goes in line with the sexual reproduction and the whole system if you have a girlfriend and she tells you she has a yeast infection or a UTI do you understand what that is um I think people I think most of us understand it we just decide to be ignorant about it yeah okay do you have would you agree the ladies do you think men understand this I like that they're both shaking their head I also don't think they don't understand men do not truly truly understand the same things because their reproductive system is different and what would you say Janet how can we educate our boy child on if your girlfriend tells you she has a UTI or a yeast infection it is not an STI how would you recommend we educate them uh first of all I think this topic should not be uh it was a good idea to include him should not be a lady's only talk so that they can be included and that uh when we're talking about menstruation when you're talking about UTI they feel involved at an early age yes yeah and that's really good from a very early age they should have the understanding yes faith on have you had an experience where you told a gentleman maybe you didn't even mean to maybe he was your boyfriend and it just happened and you told him oh I have a UTI and he completely misunderstand misunderstood you no you've not experienced that yeah not even a friend who's told your story no I guess there's you see um people confuse UTI and STIs and yeast infection because the symptoms are kind of similar yes in the moment you start like saying um I'm experiencing this my fluid is changing color and all that I have rotation and everything else it's sort of a shameful talk giving it to maybe your boyfriend or maybe a friend because you start thinking oh she has gonorrhea she has you know the status I'm sure yes I've never experienced such a such an incident and yeah but I know they misunderstand and they mistaken some yes some disorders to some STS and all that and there needs to be education on what these are and the difference between that and the STIs Janet have you had an experience where you probably had an infection and you did not understand what it was at the very beginning and you thought you you probably misunderstood and you thought you had an STI have you experienced that uh yes I have as she said these are kind of shameful to talk about UTIs so you'll just find maybe google see symptoms and then when you google then that you'll see that you have an STI so I think it's better when everything should be open people should it should be encouraged to be 13 schools yes and also my experience of my experience of having an UTI was very traumatized I actually thought I had an STI you know UTIs as ladies we get UTIs it's easy yes and I remember there's a time I blamed someone I blamed someone for giving me a UTI but I realized it's not actually uh sexually transmitted or as such you can get it from your toilet hygiene and all that yeah so kid thing educate people about all these things yes and as you've said even the ladies we ourselves have the misconceptions because when you first experience it you wonder what's going on am I dying and you don't even know who to talk to because you can't tell your mom you're afraid you can't tell your friends you like how do I start this conversation and let me also bring about the aspect of period symptoms and pregnancy symptoms being very very similar and I know most ladies have usually had like pregnancy scares faith and have you had an instance where you were convinced that you were pregnant and it was just your periods that were coming yeah yeah maybe I would say missing okay they tend to be regular at times or maybe it and to have different symptoms maybe you start fusing and all that you know shaded and everything it's the cramps but you're not sure you know it could be pregnancy it could be the the menstruation or something but I would I would say I do not have so I have not experienced that much of different symptoms when I'm having my period and maybe mistaken it to pregnancy but I know of a friend who did and actually she missed her period then and she was like very sure I'm pregnant you know so I've I've not experienced it personally but I know people who mistaken the nausea and the vomiting and all that to pregnancy so yeah there are people who experience such things yeah and Janet have you had a friend who had irregular periods or you yourself you had irregular periods and you were convinced that you were pregnant you're like I don't know I'm a virgin but I know by some immaculate conception this has happened yes yeah so most of us don't take these period things seriously if you were not taught it on an early age that they are that important so maybe you lack you don't track your periods and then maybe you assume they have delayed or you don't track your as I said I took took me six months to figure out my patterns so there's a time I freaked out I actually thought I was pregnant and then later after a week then you get your periods so it's important people should get knowledge they should know their ups they attract these periods and all that yes okay that's that's very good you need to at least have some idea of what your flow is like and what to expect because after some time you understand your flow and I also want to to bring in the aspect of contraceptions because this also affects periods and most ladies are recommended to do that because if you're sexually active and you're not planning on having kids then it's better to be prepared before so faith and would you recommend ladies who gets contraception because I know it also affects the menstrual cycles will you advise them to understand what they're getting into before or I guess that's where we come back to the gainer you should go to a gainer before maybe a health specialist and get to learn which type of a contraceptive am I supposed to use because I'm not supposed to like assume because she used this one is going to work for me the people use it and get pregnant along the way because maybe they work for your body but as you said contraceptives affect our menstruation and I wouldn't say it's all contraceptives because others will miss or maybe have a regular because they used p2s consistently so that could also cause the reason you're having regular periods and all that but just consult before you start using any sort of contraceptive yes it's important to have a professional opinion before you make a decision because that's something that you're committing to for a few years maybe Ian would you go with your girlfriend to her gynecologist what's happening what do we need to do what's contraceptive do we need to use will you do that yeah but I feel like this is something that a couple needs to do as a unit not just give money or not even give money just say when I feel like this is something that really affects the both of you and this is something that should really should really be put to light because you know complications happen and if they happen as you are not aware then sometimes things don't really work out you might be heading to the hospital next time so I think this is something that a man and a woman or a girl and a boy should actually go and check it out yes so it's it's important to involve the male and the female counterpart let's say especially when you're in a relationship or when you're married even you should be there for your woman and understand how does her menstrual cycle affect her and what can we do to even help her through the the journey right so now I want to wind up this show and we can get some final comments I don't know if we have any comments from our social media pages okay so we can start with Janet we can start with you just give us some final parting shot for the ladies who are experiencing maybe complications and people who are still continuing this the period stigma and shaming people about them what can you tell people today as your parting shot I think people should should really take these things seriously and then not sideline it and think it's just another thing that happens and then people should get eliminated on when you're supposed to get your periods how what's your pattern are you are you are experiencing is are you experiencing the right flow are you having complications so I think people we should really invest in education educating people having open talks like this should be normalized yes yes thank you so much for that education is the priority here understand what periods are so Ian let's get your parting shots to the gentlemen who are watching tell them what their role is in this conversation and what they can do in future to help the girl child I feel like this is not a girl's only topic this also involves the male contingent in society and I also feel like most of the gents out there have sisters have have kids daughters muscle they're also single dads out there I feel like this this kind of conversation should actually be normalized so that you know we can get to educate one another let's just not share away from it and say oh you go to your mom she knows how to sort it out or maybe even I saw a story one day that even a single dad was just chilling watching a football match magazine in hand then his daughter comes up springs up to him and says that I'm hot and his daughter even tries to pull her dress up and his dad her dad says no no no no you wait they walk out they meet a pastor the pastor tries to exercise a so-called demon out of the daughter but it doesn't work so they take her to hospital when she gets to hospital the dad calls the mom says something has happened to her daughter rush here very fast their mom comes enters the room speaks to the doctor speaks to the child and then they leave I think that's part of they live now that should be an x because before they leave the man should have also walked in they should have spoke to the doctor as parents and not the man just you know waiting outside and once they leave now it's like he hands over an official problem a family problem you know that's your problem take care of it I feel like we should actually scrap that notion off we should scrap it from society all in all and maybe I'd also like to give a vote of thanks to the NGOs the activists even the state in its own way in supporting this I would also like to give a special thanks to glad too was it senator gloria roober yes she really did something that you know opened our minds before then none of us were talking about this subject but then she walks in it was a trending topic for a whole week so I feel like now we are having this conversation yeah it shouldn't even be for a whole week it should be like a lifetime yes thank you so much for that Ian I'm really sorry to cut you short but time is not on our side but men should be part of the conversation yeah faith and what's your parting short this evening um I feel we all need to educate ourselves and get to learn more about ourselves our health especially our sexual reproductive health get to learn more about what happens to a lady and a male you know there are lots of things that you don't know learn about hygiene take care of yourselves and all that I even stigma just know it's a personal responsibility I need to be there for myself I don't want to be judged because I've leaked because of all that I don't want the whole drama it all starts with me take a personal responsibility be there for yourself buy yourself parts and everything else go to a gainer get screened form all sort of cancers in that are you know reproductive get to learn more about yourself get to learn more about the other gender what happens these what happens get to understand and live with it because we cannot be judging each other for things that naturally happen to us yes so yeah so if you've gotten anything from this conversation it's educate yourself educate yourself about this period and understand how you can even deal with them better so now I want to read our parting short this evening and it says menstruation has been shamed silence and been taboo for far too long now but every time a young person talks about it we get a little closer to having open conversation the world becomes better and a safer place for menstruators I believe yes and that is our parting short this evening I believe you've gotten something from this conversation both men and women need to have these conversations because they're both affected by menstruation understand your reproductive health understand your sexual health and improve your daily life and your daily interactions be there for your sisters and brothers be there for your girlfriends your friends your your sisters and everyone so that we can end period shame that is it for tonight and thank you so much for tuning in my name is sherry blessing and this has been power talk show