 Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill. Today I have a special friend and guest, Jane Hogan. Jane, the wellness engineer, blends proven, leading edge science and ancient spiritually inspired practices to help people release chronic pain using the mind, body, and breath so that they can become empowered creators of their own health. Her personal experience of reversing crippling rheumatoid arthritis using natural solutions inspired her to leave a 30 year engineering career and become a functional medicine certified health coach, certified yoga teacher and wellness educator. Jane, welcome. Thank you so much, Jill. I'm so happy to be here. I love the work that you do. You're such a shining, bright light in the space. So thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you for having me here. You are so welcome. And we were just talking before. We had to try a couple of times. I am so glad we're here. And it was my fault. I think I had canceled because of random life things. And I am, I was so excited to see you on the schedule and to talk today and to get to know you even better. So I always love to start with story. So I'd love to hear just a bit about, honestly, we heard a little glimpse of what brought you here, but give me a glimpse into your life. And how did you get from engineering to a holistic health coach? I know it's like it's a huge jump, right? Well, my story is because of pain, really. I was in my engineering career. My children were all raised. And I had a very stressful year. And I know you understand all about the stress and the impact it has on your health. And so very quickly, within three months, I went from being a healthy, strong, vibrant woman to being barely able to walk, inflammation throughout my body. Knees swollen, hands swollen, feet swollen, jaw, like shoulders, elbow, all kinds of painful joints. And so it, and I knew it had to be related to stress because it was so, you know, obvious, right? And, but my doctor didn't know what was going on. She did say, I have a very progressive doctor and she did say that sometimes foods we eat can be related to joint pain. So I thought, I'm just going to try it. And she said gluten and dairy. And I also cut out sugar. I just cut them out. Yes. Those are the top three I always try to just because if we don't have testing, it's the most likely that those three are culprits. Yeah. And so before this happened, though, I was really at a low point. I have to throw this in as well to let you know that when I was having like this really lowest point, didn't know how this had happened. And I couldn't see a way out because we didn't know what it was. And I thought, if this is the way my life is going to be ready to be done. I was curled up in pain. My husband was gone to work and I was just like sort of waking up another day. It's still here. What is this? And right after I had that thought, I had another thought voice in me outside of me, I don't know, but it said, your life is not going to turn out like this. You are going to figure it out and you're going to teach other people. So that's kind of why I'm here now because I had a calling. So after that moment, like I was still in pain. I still didn't know what it was, but I had this deep inner knowing that I was going to figure it out. And so I started OK with the food and I did have a reduction in pain. And I thought, this is great. I'm not a victim anymore. There's something I can do. And that led me down the road. I started researching a bit more. It led me to functional medicine. And so I learned a bit more about functional medicine. I went to my doctor and said, I think I need some tests done. And she said, we can't do it. I can't do it for you, not in this system. You need to see an atropath. So I found a functional medicine practitioner, went through that. But I had some infections, overgrowth in my gut. And I had to get that fixed. It took me another little while. And all these layers, I was feeling a little bit better all along. But it wasn't completely gone. And I felt like I was in this big rush, because it was diagnosed, eventually, as rheumatoid arthritis. And all you hear is joint destruction, permanent damage. And so I felt like I was in a big rush against time. So I was creating more stress. The food restrictions were creating more stress. And I realized that all this was really happening for me, not to me. And so that led me on a real in-merge journey. So I'll stop there and see where you want to go with that, Dr. Jill. First of all, I'm getting goosebumps as you're talking, because the first thing you said there was, well, first of all, the engineer background. I'm a bioengineer from undergrad. And so I love that background, because that framework is a problem solver, right? Like you look at your structure, like I was never meant to be an engineer. But you and I now in our fields, we've done that work. But now we use that. I feel like it's a scaffolding or a framework of really good problem solving, right? So I just love that commonality and the way of looking at life. And the second thing you said, you said I had a deep inner knowing. And that's when my whole body got goosebumps, because as you know from my story too, there's a piece, so often I get asked, what creates resilience? Like, what is it? Or how do you, you know, they might be looking at, like you or I, the diagnosis of pain are for me, Crohn's or cancer or whatever thing that our listeners are looking at. And there's this piece of like, how can I overcome this? How can I feel happy in this really difficult dark time? And I wanna speak to that because there's something I think I learned from Victor Frankel and some of the people who have suffered, right? Far worse than you and I. I mean, I could cry right now thinking of the suffering that some of our ancestors and some of the Holocaust survivors and some of my biggest heroes in life have gone through. It is nothing compared to what I've suffered, right? And yet in that deep, deep suffering and horrific situations, they also had a deep inner knowing. And it's that inner fortitude that I think creates resilience or not resilience or the survivors versus the people who don't make it. And it's not to say it's all your fault. So I am not like blaming it on the person, but I love that you said that and I wanna go there in a few minutes as far as what does that mean and how do we actually get into that place? Because I believe we all have that innate ability to have a deep inner knowing and that deep inner knowing gives us a confidence to look for answers, which is exactly what you started to do. So take it from here, then you started. So you obviously found puncture medicine and just like you described, there's a layers, right? There's like, okay, there's the foods. Oh, then there's the gut, oh, then there's inflammation and then there's, so you kind of go down through the layers. And what I love, we started talking about right before we got onto youth include mind, body, spirit. Like you really look at not just because puncture medicine is very physical based. It's important to look at the diet and the lifestyle, but it's bigger than that, isn't it? So keep going and telling us how you kind of got into that bigger picture. It is so much bigger. And I think really, I've interviewed hundreds of people now as well, like between, I did a summit and with my podcast as well, I've interviewed so many people and so often it comes back to that emotional component. And I heard Deepak Chopra say in a meditation one time, the mind creates the body and everything we're learning from quantum physics, which is really just proving the ancient spirituality is that this is a physical creation and physical manifestation of what's going on inside. And because for me, I knew that it was very related to emotions, I knew like it had to be and if emotions turn this on, emotions should be able to turn it off. But I didn't know how. And that really took me a long time to figure that out. And so, yeah, this deep inner knowing and this belief that we can physically change your body. And that's a hard one for people to get to because we're not taught that. Right. That's how it is because they can get so critical to if you can believe that something else is possible, that feeling starts, right? Because if you can't even believe that it's possible you're never gonna get there or very rarely maybe by some accident. So I wanted to focus on that because I think that belief is what starts to shift what happens in our bodies, right? And you found that you kind of, and same with me, it's almost like accidental, like back then, maybe for you back then, you didn't know how powerful that deep inner knowing was. Now looking back, we can both say, oh, that's part of what carried me forward, right? It was, it was. And all like, I had this belief from this, you know, whatever it was that spoke to me and I've always sort of believed in this that I've been protected or that I have, I'm not alone or I have a higher self. I've always kind of believed that, but that was very clear. And I think sometimes it happens at rock bottom moments, but then it also made me seek out stories. So we can Google and find answers to anything, but the questions you ask are what's important. So I started seeking out stories of people who had healed rheumatoid arthritis naturally. And then I thought, if they can do it, I can do it. And if I can do it, I can be an example of what's possible for other people. And so I kept doing that. There were other things that were kind of like tied up because the stressful year I had it began with my mother dying, we were very, very close and it was sudden. And so she had always been my champion. And when she was gone, I had to, I thought, I have to be my own champion. I have to speak to myself the way my mother would say, I'm almost getting leafy talking about her. And it's been seven, eight years now. I had to speak to myself the way she would speak to me. And so I did, and I started like walking in the mirror saying, I'm so proud of you, Jamie. You're doing so well. You can do this. You're just getting started. You know, I'd speak to myself like that. And I also created visions because I had done a lot of like personal development and I knew about the power visioning and so on. So I started visioning myself doing the things I couldn't do then, but I wanted to do again, climbing a mountain and being up at the top like you're climbing a mountain too, right? Your mountain story. And sailing, I picture myself on a sailboat and hoisting up the sails and throwing a grandchild up and catching them. I don't have any grandchildren, but this is the kind of things that I would picture in my mind of what I would do. And I think it's so powerful. Our minds are so powerful. We create visions in our mind and the brain can't really tell the difference. They know we're pretty close anyway between what we see with our eyes and what we imagine in our mind. So it will try to resolve that. So I was doing a lot of different things. I didn't really realize, but for the longest time, I was still kind of like warrior, I'm gonna fight this kind of way instead of the surrender. You have to have a surrender. It's like that, this is happening for me. So how can I understand why and what it is I need to learn? And so I did do, there's a ton of research on rheumatoid arthritis and illness in general and how the body responds to emotions. There's, you know, Gabbermate's book when the body says no and the body keeps a score vessel, Vanderkog and so many others. So there's this clear connection between emotions and especially the things that we've been thinking over and over again for all of our lives really. So I had to start looking back over my life and I realized that from a very young age, I didn't have any big trauma and I know you're in the same boat. I didn't have any big trauma, but I had an older sibling that liked to tease me until I started to stutter. And so I didn't believe that I had anything to say and I had this low self-worth even though you would think on the outside, I'm an engineer, a good job, I was doing all the things and I certainly, you know, I knew it was kind of there underneath and like any little bit of criticism, oh, I would melt, right? Perfectionism, people pleasing, what they're calling fawning now. So there's like fear and fawning. I was fawning. I did engineering because my father wanted me to do engineering. So I realized that there was a whole lifetime that I was carrying this little, this underneath, this undercurrent of stress. And when everything kind of fell in, when my mom died and then my brother, you know, all of this stuff going on and I love my brothers, like I had to work on forgiveness as well. It was just a lot at once and my bucket just got too full and my body said no. Hey everybody, I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected, Finding Resilience Through Functional Medicine, Science and Faith, is now available for order wherever you purchase books. In this book, I share my own journey of overcoming life-threatening illness and the tools and tips and tricks and hope and resilience I found along the way. This book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions, infections like Lyme or Epstein Bar and mold and biotoxin-related illness. What I really hope is that as you read this book, you find transformational wisdom for health and healing. If you wanna get your own copy, stop by readunexpected.com. There you can also collect your free bonuses. So grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine in Finding Resilience. Calling for me to help. You just described that so eloquently because if we reframe often illness, suffering, I would never wish it on anyone. But what we can do is see it as an awakening or a gift. And with that comes this ability to say, okay, what is this trying to tell me? I look back at 25 breast cancer, I'm like, oh, my body was just trying to get my attention because just like you, I was pushing and driving and way too hard and not being kind when you described how you talk to yourself like your mother would. Oh, I love that. And that's so powerful in healing because I always say, sweetheart, you're doing a great job or you know, this kinds of things just like, but we talk to other people like that very easily, usually but it's very hard to put that on ourselves. But unless we're actually kind to our own bodies and our own minds, we don't get good results. And I love that you talked about the fight because I was the same thing, this fighter, fighter, fighter. And then I was like, oh, this is killing me. I need to shift my mindset and be more of a comrade or a partner with myself in the healing. So so many important points. So you've dealt with rheumatoid arthritis and completely reversing that and your book soon will be pain-free by design. I asked you before, you're like, oh, it's coming. So stay tuned everyone. If you like this episode, Jane will have a book. I'll check in with you on when that is and we'll share it. We'll have to do another episode but I wanna talk specifically about pain because so many people out there are dealing with pain whether it's emotional, physical. Let's talk about the physical though first. How does pain become, oh, I hurt my elbow into chronic where you woke up one day and tell us a little bit about your shift because usually it's not like Tuesday you're perfectly fine and Wednesday you wake up with massive pain everywhere. How quickly did that manifest and how did it actually happen where you're like, oh, I'm in pain and I can't function. For me, so I was working on getting my mother's house ready to sell. So this was sort of coming a year after she had passed. And so I was doing a lot of painting and packing and ton of stuff and she lived a seven hour drive from me and I had a weekend and a bit to do it. So I was like going like they ever ready, buddy. So I was just working when I was like, wow I think I was painted to her, this shoulder hurts. And then the next day I was like, oh, it's this shoulder. And then I got back and I went to physio and then it was like, it was crazy. I would go and say, I know I was here for my left shoulder last week but it's my right elbow this time or it's my left knee or and it was just shifting around. I felt like someone had a voodoo doll and they were just sticking pins in different places. And then it really settled in. And I thought, okay, I just need the house to be sold and all this to be done and I'll be fine and have a vacation. So I did that. And then it just, it just got worse. The inflammation, my knees that I've got pictures. I didn't really take a lot of pictures and stuff at that time, but I took a picture of my knees only because it was the first time I had had acupuncture. And so I took a picture of my knees and they were grotesquely swollen. There's no way that I could walk very well. It was no wonder I was in so much pain but my hands as well. But I just kept on thinking it was something else. I got orthotics. I thought, okay, I guess I'm 50. I need orthotics now. And it was none of those things. So yeah, it came on pretty quickly. But, and I help people with pain in general, not just specifically rheumatoid arthritis, just because it's kind of like, and I'm sure you think this as well, the diagnosis is just a label. It's just a label and it really doesn't matter. Our body's talking to us, how it's talking to us. It could be skin, right? It could be, you know, inflamed skin. It could be inflammatory bowels. It could be, it could be chronic pain. It could be rashes, you know, it was all kinds of things. It could be brain fog. So there's a lot of different things. But I help people with pain. Chronic pain is pain. I mean, pain is actually a good thing, right? That we, it's a protection. Our body gives us pain to protect us. And, you know, with that acute pain, if you like burn yourself, like that pain makes you pull your hand away. So that's, it's a good thing. When it's sticking around for longer than, say three months or four months, and then it's called chronic pain. And sometimes there can be a physical reason for it. Sometimes there can be a diagnosis, but sometimes there's no reason for it if people don't really understand. I kind of think it doesn't matter. In fact, sometimes people are given a reason and that just makes our brain believe. The loop, right? That we're getting that loop of like, oh, I'm gonna have pain because I have this and just like you said earlier, I loved what you talked about. You're talking about subconscious programming. Like if we believe something on the subconscious level, it's going to happen because our brain doesn't know the difference. So if we really believe, oh, I have this condition, it's going to be painful. We're going to manifest pain because our body believes that we're supposed to have pain with that condition. So I love that you framed it that way because the truth is, what if, what if we didn't have to have pain, right? Exactly, exactly. And pain is actually not where we feel it. Pain originates in the brain, which doesn't mean to say your pain is in your mind. Your pain is real if you're experiencing pain and I get it, I was there. But our mind runs the body. And so if we can get in the mind and change things, then it will get a different message. And when people have chronic pain, after a while they create fear around the pain. And I get that too. I mean, I had a lot of that. Like what's my life going to be like if I can't even walk? If I can't do all these things, what's going to happen? I'm not going to be able, I was very close to not even being able to look after myself. Like if you can't hold toilet paper in your hand, that's getting pretty bad, right? And those are scary things, right? Yeah, and so then you get fear. And I mentioned earlier about the fear around, I got to figure this out soon. Wait, I got to do it. And all that creates a pain, fear cycle. And then we're especially wired to pay attention to fear. It's another protection mechanism, right? So when we have fear and pain, our brain really pays attention. It wires those neural networks even deeper, like makes deeper grooves or strengthens those muscles if you kind of think about it like muscle memory. And so it keeps it going. And so there's a lot of tools we can use to help let the mind relax a little bit or at least feel safe. And then so creating feelings of safety. Another thing is just because of the way that we are in our society, we've also got very disassociated from our body. So pain is kind of so far down the line of I need help, right? We, a lot of us just aren't even paying attention to other signals that we get all the time. I really have chronically tight, I have to work at it, my solar plexus. I mean, that was tight for a long time. I didn't even really know it. It was so normal for me. And so another thing that I teach is helping people get in touch with their body, feel in their body, like the emotion. Where do you feel this emotion in your body, right? Let's enliven that. And we are energy, right? We know this again, it's proven by quantum science. We're not, most people aren't taught this, that really, you're just your energy. We feel very dense, but we're just compressed energy. And so if we are energy and part of us is not functioning well, then it's a signal that's not getting through. Energy not getting through. So I do energy work as well, like not that I'm doing energy transmissions, but I teach people how to energize for themselves. Like I just really like empowering people with their own tools. And so they may still be using other tools as well, but you can do so much within yourself. And no one else can do that but you. So you really teach your clients to go, I love that, because part of my healing too is going outside of my analytical engineering brain, which justified everything. And like you said, dissociation from our bodies is actually a very helpful thing in immediate trauma, but it doesn't go well for the longterm. And so you're saying, we need to get back in touch. And I did a lot of that work with my own healing journey of really feeling again and like, why am I feeling a little stomach upset? Is that an emotion? And so that somatic based work, that sounds so powerful and such a huge part of what you do, talk about pain-free by design. That's kind of your way of looking at this. Tell us more, what does that mean? And how do you like, graph out the different pieces of that? Well. The blueprint. At a really like 30,000 foot view, I believe we are all designers, that we are all engineers, if you wanna think of it that way. We're all creators, we're like, many, we're here to create this body, this life, everything. And so by design is intentional creation. Most of us were not taught intentional. I don't think I had an intentional thought for, I don't know how, though I was 50, I don't know. I just didn't really, I didn't really think about life in that way. I did some things that way. I planned to get an engineering degree and then I planned a family and that kind of stuff. But I didn't really think about planning my health and planning my life. So if I design, I was a design engineer. So I love using like these fun little analogies for me. So the word design is like the six steps in my process, desire, explore, surrender, which we mentioned earlier, integrate, generate and navigate. And it's sort of like a kind of a circular path because we kind of go through, we're not gonna like design and be done, right? We're gonna be keep going around and then new things come along and we're gonna go around that cycle again. So that desire is the first step in like, what is it you want? How do you wanna feel? Cause all we do anything for is for feeling ultimately. So how do we wanna feel? So when I was doing that visioning of like, climbing up on that feeling, that victory, right? Playing with a grandchild, I just had joy, being on a sailboat is so exhilarating. So I was really feeling these feelings as I was having these visions and really like putting them out there. This is what I desire. This is what I want. And it comes from like the soul desires as opposed to kind of physical world, I wanna power in my drive. Like it's not that or big house. It's not those things. It's cause those are only really about generating feelings too. So I love that. And I love that you kind of frame that cause I agree it's like, well, even if I would say it finances really just by freedom and experience and sharing with others. And if we have those kinds of frames on it where we're creating an experience for us and our family, our friends or we're creating freedom for someone else or we're that's this altruistic and those kinds of desires tend to really magnify and energetically frequency what rise they're gonna be way up here versus like, I just want a new car. I totally love that you said that. Yeah, I love that you talked about frequency and energy because it really that's what we when we talk about energy, energy is frequency, right? With information. And so think about like radio waves, right? They have a frequency. When we tune in to the channel, we pick up information that's being broadcasted through that. And so we're broadcasting as well. And fundamental laws of the universe what we broadcast out where then we're a match for that to come back to us, right? I mean, when we start talking about the law of attraction some people like, whatever but it really is based on real physics and fundamental laws of the universe. So when we put that those what we want out there then, you know, we're gonna get that back. Yeah, good desire and then keep going through that circle. I like your, yeah. So the explore is well, exploring like where look maybe it might mean looking back or like where did this come from? What, how are my behaviors today? Like how have they been influenced? Explore the body. Like how, where are you feeling this in the body? You mentioned like, you know what does this mean feeling in my stomach mean? Like that means something different than a pain in your neck or tight shoulders or you know, your stomach hurting and that kind of thing. So there's exploring these different things really like getting to know yourself. We're so busy in our lives that we don't really get to know ourselves. And so there's that step and then the surrender is really surrendering to the intelligence of the body. Surrendering might also mean surrendering to having a rest. To being restful, to giving yourself self care time for yourself, those kinds of things which we haven't really been taught about surrendering very well. It's something we have to work at. Most people have to work out especially people who are in pain. They're very often I see it over and over again there that people have the to-do lists and want to get them all checked off and always doing things for other people often over givers, right? Can't say no. Yeah, so there's a lot to do with surrendering. Yes, and then after surrender. So desires for surrender integrate. So start pulling these things in and creating a lifestyle where you are pulling all of this into your life. Daily routines, morning routines especially like I believe the morning routines can change your life. Yes. Pulling that in. And I've got a lot of other tools along the way too with meditations and journaling and breath work and so on. So desires for surrender integrate, generate. So now we're at the stage we're really gonna generate more energy, more life, more of what we want to do. And I like more of what we want to experience in our life. And then the navigate stage is like, okay navigating around to what next? I remember the book by, goodness, Ypres love, is that Elizabeth Gilbert? Yes. Her second, another one of her books. And I can't remember what it's called now. But anyway, at the end of it or somewhere in that book she talked about once you've come around all of a sudden you think, okay, this is great. I've met this desire or these desires that I've set out to achieve. And she said, more wonder please. I remember, I think the book's called something wonder. The wonder's in the title, I think. I can't remember. Anyway, I totally love that more. More wonder please. Oh, love, love, love. And I love that you created this circular process because so often I'm guilty of this as well as anyone where I go through and I'm like, oh, I recovered. I remember years ago I would talk about my story because my story from cancer is 20 years ago. So I would teach like, oh, I did this and I overcame cancer and all that. And then I tied up in this neat bow. And it didn't resonate as well with people as when I was real in the fact that, no, now I'm going through this next thing. And it doesn't have to be messy, but the reality is we're all either having just gone through a traumatic or crazy experience with our health or our family or our finances or we're in it or it's coming up. Like that's the only three options in this life is we're continually experiencing things that shake it up and that aren't maybe exactly what we expected. So I really, really love it. I love your framework because granted it's perfect for chronic pain, but your framework could apply to pretty much any illness or any life experience. Like I love such a universal way to think about things. It really is. And I love what you, what you mentioned there that we are like, we're here to learn and grow, I believe. So of course the perfect things that we need to learn and grow will be put in front of us, right? And so then we have, we go through this cycle and sometimes I think about it like seasons too, right? So there's the winter, right? Which is when things aren't going so well, maybe although I do love winter and then the spring, oh, it's all going to, well, then there's the fall or summer, you know, where things are growing and then the fall comes in and it all breaks out. Right, exactly. But it's beautiful and natural. Yeah, yeah. And if I can just, like you said, even surrender, I love that word especially because I always think of like, you know, say you're in a car accident, you know, something awful where you brace and you like tighten your body, you get hurt a lot worse than if you happen to be sleeping in the back seat or something where you're, or God forbid you've been drinking and the, you know, the often the people who have that they're, you know, not bracing because they're not even aware and they don't get hurt as bad. Not condoning that at all, just saying that those kinds of situations, it really does make a difference if we're bracing, resisting or surrendering because the surrender allows, even with emotions, right? Like say some sadness comes in before I was like, oh, no sadness, no anger and I would brace and resist. It was way more painful than now I let the wave come in and I'm like, oh, the sadness, welcome, hello. I don't really, you know, want this to stay but I let it flow through. And then all of a sudden it's way easier to deal with emotions and things when we surrender. Well, the surrender is, is so interesting because as I said, we, we haven't really been taught about what we, like even surrender, there's so many layers of meaning on it as well. So it can also mean surrender to your, with your inner wisdom, right? We talked about that inner knowing, right? Surrender to that inner knowing, what? I already have all the answers. That was one thing I really loved when I went into functional medicine coaching because I came from an engineering background and everyone else in my class was already in health and I was like, oh, no. And then Dr. Sandy taught us you don't have to know all the answers. Oh, isn't that just, it's actually embracing uncertainty, right? And the more we get comfortable with the fact that even in medicine, same thing, we're kind of taught the very similar to engineering that there was black and white and there was right and wrong and there's answers and there's protocols and there's, and I remember first facing cancer and realizing, holy cow, there is no black and white for my treatment. I have to get a plan with my doctor but there is no like right or wrong. And those who really like the black and white thinking want there to be a right answer. But when we embrace the fact that it is uncertain, we still will have answers but it's not always gonna be black and white. It's most times gonna be shades of gray. It makes it easier because then we don't have to find the right answer, right? Exactly. And also that each person has that wisdom within them to when they can trust themselves, right? So another tool that I do is teach people how to tune in to that inner, you know, that am I leaning towards or am I leaning away from something? How do you trust? I mean, even simple things like, you know, is this supplement one I should be taking? Like ask your higher self, your inner self, whatever you wanna call it. You have, I believe we all have this knowing that does have the answers and does know what's best for us. So I like tuning into that as well. And that's a surrender as well to really pay attention to that. I love that you're coaching people because often a patient will come in and say, I don't really know why, but I stopped this two weeks ago and I'm like, and I really trust that. I'll use my analytical brain to make sure that it's safe and whatever kind of thing there. But I often support their sense of like, oh, I don't think I need this anymore because usually they know and I wanna encourage them to be empowered. Just like you said. So in our last few minutes, I wanna talk about your morning routine because you mentioned that and I think that's powerful and I think people enjoy hearing what do you do and they might get some ideas. So let's talk about your routine and then let's end with a couple of minutes of a practice that you could guide one of your clients through that people could actually experience that. So first morning routine, tell us about your morning routine. Okay, well, I love my mornings and I feel very fortunate that I set my own schedule now so I can extend my morning routine if I want to. So I usually make up, have a glass of water to flush the brain, right? Because the lymphatic system has been working all night. Glass of water, a meditation, yoga. Then I write, I'm working on my book so then I write for an hour and then three days a week, my husband and I go for a run. If I run, I will have a shower and I turn my shower to cold. I also live across from a river so some days I will dip in the river all year round. I love, I love the cold therapy. I mean, not that everyone has to do this. I just happened, I mean, I don't love it when I'm doing it, but I love it afterwards. Every part of me is saying no. Right. This is really good. I just want to, I totally, for those listening, I agree with you that cold plunge is the powerful science. We could have an whole episode on that one. Oh yeah, yeah, I love it. I'd love to talk about it if you want to talk about it. And then this time of year, if it's summertime, I like to get outside more, but this time of year, where I live in Newfoundland, it's dark really in the morning so it doesn't get light till later. And so I've got some red lights. So I like to sit in front of the red lights and while I'm, I love to have it to stack a bunch of things together. So while I'm under the lights, I will do lymphatic drainage and I also like to either listen to some affirmations or a mantra or guided thing, whatever. Or sometimes it's a podcast, but I try to listen to something as well. So that's kind of like what I like to do each morning. And then start, come to my desk and I love to get my journal out and write in everything that's happening for that day. And I find then I feel a lot really good for the day and I tend to not miss things because there's nothing worse than missing. We talked about that earlier. Sometimes I was like, I just missed it, oh no. But when I stick to that routine, my day goes so much more smoothly. And I love coming into my little office space here and saying this is a sacred, I forgot to mention journaling, I do journaling as well. But when I come into my office, I say this is a sacred space. The work that I'm doing is sacred. And so I like to pull an oracle card or like a picture of my parents on my desk here and just let really feel, I turn on my light and just feel like this is sacred and let my work be guided. So that's kind of how I love to start my day. Oh, wow, I love it. There's so many pearls there. One little thing you mentioned that I think is so powerful is I just heard a podcast on flow and rumination. And what happens is often if we are ruminating on, oh, what should I make for dinner? Or all these little things that don't really have a lot of consequence in our lives and our greater work, we can offload those by writing them down in the morning. Like we just like offload the brain. So journaling, ideas, thoughts, plans, or just a to-do list. And we kind of offload that so that our default mode network doesn't have to ruminate or chew on that. And instead we can ruminate on, how are we gonna change the world? How am I gonna do that next chapter? Like the bigger things that we really matter. So you kind of mentioned that and because I've just been reading about that I thought I would mention that's actually, so our default mode network chews on things when we shower, when we garden, when we play basketball, when we do like these other things that are kind of like a little bit mindless. We can kind of just give these, that's where our great ideas usually come in those times when we're doing something, but not super intently thinking. And we can use our default mode network to solve problems if we've offloaded all that. What did we get the groceries? What are we having for dinner? Did I talk to my husband on time to pick up the kids, all those other things? And we can do that by in the morning. And who's the author that did the famous book on a child, I think? She talked about morning pages where we just write for three minutes, right? And you're kind of describing that. And I think that's so powerful. Okay, so last just a couple of minutes here. Take us through a little process of how you might teach your clients to really tap in or whatever thing you wanna do with us. Let's actually show and tell and experience a little meditation. Well, what I really love Jill is really focusing on the heart. We've talked about disassociation, but a lot of people can feel the heart because it's such a, we have strong emotions there, right? We love, we can feel that, we can feel grief, like we've lost someone, we can really feel that. So tapping into that is a great beginning point to start tapping into the rest of the body. And also it's just, it's the most powerful frequency, right? They can actually measure the electromagnetic waves from the heart, like 10, 12 feet away outside the person. So I love this because if we can create this in ourselves, then we're also having a ripple effect with people that are around us. We can tell, right? When we stand in front of us. So let's do, and there's a lot of science done behind this, backing this up from the Heart Math Institute, which I'm sure you know about. So let's do this together. So just invite everyone. We'll just do a really short three minutes or so. So just wherever you are now, as long as you're not driving, just close down your eyes and maybe you won't even want to put your hands on your heart. And just begin to breathe, long breaths in, ideally in and out through the nose, but if that's not comfortable for you, then that's okay. Just breathe in, to lengthen out the breaths and exhale slowly. Now imagine as you're breathing in that you're breathing into your heart. So breathing into the heart, feeling it swell there and then exhaling. The heart again, swirling around the heart. And while you continue to breathe in and out through your heart, I'd like for you to think about the time when you felt it could be love, it could be gratitude, it could be joy. And maybe for this feeling, you might think about a person, a pet or a place. Whatever it is, bring it to your mind now. Notice the colors you see and look around what's around you. Notice if you hear anything. Do you feel anything? If you feel anything, where do you feel it? Think again about this feeling, whatever it is that you're feeling. Now notice that you can feel that feeling in your heart. So instead of thinking with your mind, now feel with your heart. Now every time you breathe, imagine that that feeling is getting bigger. It's filling up your heart space. It's filling up your chest. It's filling up your whole body. Now it's even bigger than your body. Let this feeling get as big as it can get. Maybe even filling the room that you're in. Feel how good that feels. Now call all this feeling back into your heart. Pull it all back into your heart. Know that it's always there for you. Whenever you want to feel it, you can let it stay in your heart. You can let it get as big as you want, but it's always there for you. Take one last inhale and exhale with a sigh. And when you're ready, you can slowly and gently open your eyes. So lovely, Jane. Thank you so much for taking us through that. And I'm sure if you're listening and you're still with us, that you feel the same wonderful calm. And for me, there's just lots of love and appreciation for the work that you're doing in the world. And it's so funny that we can appreciate the suffering, but I appreciate that too. Not that you had to go through it, but that you transformed it into something that could help so many people and cannot wait for your book to get out. So where can people find you if they want to know more? And you mentioned a webinar coming up when this is airing. So tell us more about those things. Well, my website is thewellnessengineer.com. YouTube and Instagram and Facebook. I'm at Jane Hogan Health. Someone else had already taken the wellness engineer. So I'm at Jane Hogan Health. But the webinar got coming up. It's called Ancient Secrets for Living Pain-Free. And so I'm going to be teaching about some of this stuff that I've learned, dive into it a little bit more. And I really love teaching this stuff. And so it's happening on Wednesday, December 6th at six o'clock p.m. Eastern time. And if anyone wants to register, it's totally free. It's at thewellnessengineer.com slash webinar and capital T, capital W, capital E, T-W, the wellness engineer. So we'll share that link so people can sign up. And I'd love to see you there. Yes, and wherever you're listening to this, if you look below on the show notes, you will find the links that she just mentioned. So if you're driving or somewhere, don't worry. You can get all the information. So the wellness engineer, and we will include all those links. Jean, thank you truly for all that you've taken to transform your life and shared with others. So powerful and so helpful. Oh, thank you, Jill. I just really appreciate this opportunity to fulfill my mission, right? That's what I was told to do. So I appreciate you, the work that you're doing and being such a bright light in the world. Thank you so much.