 Good afternoon and warm welcome to Dr. Mustafa that is representing the government in Ramallah and also President Abbas. Dr. Mustafa is one of the key people in Ramallah, also background from the World Bank, also a well-known and unknowledged economists. We have also dealt with each other and collaborated before when I as Foreign Minister in Norway headed this AHLC ad hoc Liaison Committee. It is the longest surviving ad hoc Liaison Committee ever. It was created in Oslo in 92. So it's a long time Dr. Mustafa since there was in principle an agreement on the two-state solution. I know we're witnessing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We're seeing that this is continuing day by day. How to end this war and also how can the international community support when it comes to the humanitarian needs with children and also lack of medicine and housing in Gaza. Well thank you very much and appreciate the opportunity and thank you for the good work not only at WEF but also before that when we work together not only on the HLC but also in the reconstruction of Gaza effort in 2014. So unfortunately we have to do it again hopefully with better results this time around. The catastrophe and the humanitarian impact of this war is much bigger than 2014 unfortunately. We cannot avoid but feel very bad for the families and the people of Palestine for the repeated wars against them and I hope this time around will be the last time. I think the humanitarian effort is a priority and I think that war has to stop. I think the military action has got to stop very quickly. There's no need for anybody to build their political careers at the expense of more Palestinian people. So it's time to be bold. I think the international community all the stakeholders which we all appreciate have to move and move fast and boldly to stop this aggression. Unfortunately that devastation is huge. We have if not we are not careful maybe more people will be killed or die from hunger and famine than the war itself. So we do want to wait long to see that happening. I think the time to move is now and I think the first step is to do the basic things which is to bring in food, matrices, medicine, water, bring back the electricity to the people and I think that's not much to ask for. There's a big issue to bring in humanitarian assistance. Many good people in many good countries and many good institutions have tried to bring in some aid together in the last few weeks. Not enough have been allowed because of the scanning process that the Israeli forces consist on slowing the process significantly. That's not I'm not alone saying this. I think senator from the U.S. was able to reach Rafa a few weeks ago and saw that in his own eyes and said that the only reason aid is not getting into Gaza is the lengthy unnecessary scanning process by the Israeli government. So I think it's time to open Gaza for all assistance. Gaza has been a big prison all these years unfortunately. It's time to open up this prison. We have killed all the inmates in this prison more or less. It's time to open up the prison, get the people to move and freely and work peacefully and bring the assistance as soon as possible. Dr. Mustafa you mentioned that in 2014 there was also a war in Gaza and there was a big donor conference in Cairo where there was pledged billions of U.S. dollars and some of this was also invested then in Gaza to rebuild. I guess in this current situation if there is no political path, no clarity on what's going to happen in Gaza after the war there will be very limited amount of donors willing to rebuild again for the third time, things that have been built. So do you see any hope for a political process or do you think this will then continue like this when we meet in Davos next year? It is still the same that the humanitarian sufferings do continue and there is no political process. No you're absolutely right and I think we should learn from the lesson of 2014 and I think we should do better and we can do better. I think the political solution is a must now. I don't think one can avoid but see the facts and the facts are that military solutions will not solve the problem. Occupation cannot continue. No people will accept to be oppressed the way Palestinians have been impressed. So it's time to go to the root problem and the root problem is occupation. We need to end the Israeli occupation to the Palestinian, all Palestinians, not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and allow Palestinians to build their own sovereign independent state. And we committed this before. We committed to this. We continue to commit ourselves to it. We committed through the peace process that started in Madrid in 1991. We committed ourselves through the Oslo process. We committed ourselves through the Arab peace initiative that the Saudi Arabia led since 1982 I think many years ago. We continue to commit ourselves to a peaceful process and I hope that this time around people will make an extra effort to do that. We hear good things about this issue from many quarters. And we are very pleased that the realization is increasing that this is the best way forward for all of us, not only for Palestinians but also for all the people in the region. We are very pleased also of the excellent and outstanding support we're getting from our Arab colleagues, Arab countries, our partners, especially Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. And I think with their help we can move forward with a process. But I will take back the word process because we do want another process. We had processes before and the time is time for action. And the best way forward in this regard is start with defining the end game. One of the problems of the Oslo process that we started with an interim arrangement and we said within five years we will reach the permanent solution. We are 30 years later and we did not realize this permanent solution. So we do want this to be repeated. Let's start with the end game. Let's define what are we trying to achieve and work diligently together to reach that goal. We know that the situation in the West Bank and the cooperation between the PA but also with Israel is a different one that it was between Hamas and Israel. But what would you say, though, even if there is a political process that is led by the Arab countries establishing a two state solution, of course then in agreement with Israel based on the borders from 67 and the processes that have been underway. But then they will say what if we end up with Hamas also on the West Bank. Who can one in the two state solution guarantee that what happened the 7th of October cannot happen again. I guess that has to be a part of the of the peace process or the end game. We should avoid the process. Absolutely. Look, I mean Hamas took over Gaza as we all know in 2007. But this was unfortunately facilitated by the Israelis themselves. They have only themselves to blame for this. So in 2005, when the Israeli government decided to withdraw from Gaza, Sharon was the prime minister. And maybe pulled out of the Netanyahu pulled out of the government. Exactly. Then we told them that we will come back and withdraw from Gaza. But let's coordinate. Let's do it in a proper way so that the Palestinian government can take control of Gaza and ensure that whatever agreements we have will be applied, including the security arrangements. They refused to do that. They did that unilaterally. They would draw from Gaza, lift it without any coordination. And a year later, they allowed Hamas to come in, take over and made all the arrangements possible for them to grow. And now they admit publicly that they did that by possible and intentionally in order to undermine Palestinian statehood and PA ability to govern. So I think if Israel commit to enter into a serious process where the terms are clear and acceptable, we will reciprocate and promise Israel that we will do everything we can together to ensure that Palestine will be a safe place, a secure place, a prosperous place so that our people will live in dignity and therefore avoid any need for war or anything like that. So never as 7th of October again in that context. Absolutely. I think October 7th is unfortunate for everybody, but it's also a symptom of a bigger problem. And the symptom is that the Palestinian people have been suffering for 75 years nonstop and nobody would pay attention. Okay, that's history. But now in 1947, remember, there was the partition of Palestine. Palestinians didn't like that because it partitioned their country, their land into two nations into two countries. But we accepted that Israel was established in 1948. Palestine is still not until this day established as a sovereign independent state. I think it's time to correct the mistake. I think the international community has a responsibility, not only towards Gaza, not only towards West Bank, but also Palestine, and the Palestinian people, including those on diaspora, we have millions of Palestinians who live outside Palestine, who also have rights to return and live in peace in Palestine. So we hope that this time around there will be no excuses and that if the problem is not Palestinians, I assure you that until today with all the problems we faced over the last 30 years of nonperforming the Israeli side on the peace process, until today, we still believe that statehood for Palestinians is the way forward. So we hope that this time around we will be able to achieve that so that all people in the region can live in security and peace. If you look at the prospects for a two state solution today, yes, the Arab leaders, of course, we have the earlier Arab plan, peace plan, yeah, Arab peace plan. I guess your suggestion is that we can build on that moving forward to what the Arab countries are now saying is that they also feel that you should be a more regional involvement and that they will also have them to commit. If there is a two state solution, they will also recognize Israel, but doing so it has to be the establishment of Palestine in the West Bank and in Gaza and the security of Israel has to be guaranteed. Of course, also the security of the Palestinians. But if you look at the situation today also in Israel, do you think this is realistic? Well, I mean, realism is something subjective. It depends. I think it's a matter of what's the alternative. If the Israeli people and the Israeli government wants to see stable region, if they want to see safety and security for their own people, if they want to prosper and do well as they did in the past, I think that's the only available option for them is to help Palestinians actually build their own state so they can live, succeed, prosper and provide also security and safety for their neighbors. You know, we do want fighting forever. We're not helpless people. We're not crazy people. We're just humans. We want self determination. We want to succeed. We want to grow our children in good environment and good communities. That's all we need. So the Israelis, it's their choice. But I think this may be the best opportunity for them. I think the Palestinian leadership has always expressed their interest and extended their hand. As you correctly said, the Arabs made very generous, meaningful, realistic proposal in the Arab Peace Initiative. And I think now they're also putting, providing an additional layer of goodwill by again continue to extend their hand despite the lack of positive response from the Israeli side so far. Some governments in the region are saying publicly that they are willing to engage and integrate Israel as part of the region as long as they can, Israel can commit to an independent Palestinian state. I think the Arab parts, Arab governments included are serious about this. And I think this is the best opportunity for Israel to enter into this kind of process. And I think we'll be happy to see that happening. Secretary Blinken said that President Abbas was committed to reforming the Palestinian Authority to potentially reunite war-torn Gaza and the West Bank under its leadership. How do you envision this in the future? And what does it really entail concretely? Well, I think, I think we, the Palestinian Authority are facing significant challenges. Occupation is one of them. But there are also many other things. The fiscal situation is not great. The security situation caused by the settlers and the Israeli army and the rates they do every day are not helping anyone to perform well. Nevertheless, we want to give an excuse for anyone. But I think we can also, the Palestinian Authority can do better in terms of building better institutions, providing better governments so that we can unite our people in the next phase so that we can reunite Gaza and the West Bank and also prepare for reconstruction of Gaza. We don't want to leave Gaza without reconstruction. It's very important we do that. And also open up a clear pathway forward towards statehood. So President Abbas is committing himself, does that openly and believe that the best way forward for the Palestinian people is to reenergize all the resources, human, political, financial resources in order for all of us to take the big challenge that we are all facing. And I think that's possible. And I am encouraged also by the positive engagement from several countries in the region, but also globally with his approach and with his engagement. So we hope that we will proceed with that. But again, reform needs a conducive environment to do that. I do want to blame occupation for everything. But occupation is key. If we cannot remove occupation, no government, no reformed government, no reformed institutions can actually build a good, successful governing system or develop a proper economy. So we want to move on with this reform. But we do also like to see the political agenda move in parallel with that so we can provide hope for people. People in a Palestinian society would like to believe that the international community is serious this time around. We lost, unfortunately, the trust in the international system. Well, since this year's Wefts theme is rebuilding the trust, I think we should all aim at making 2024 as the year where the Palestinians rebuild the trust in the international system. Dr. Mustafa, when you say Palestinians, do you then mean the government in Ramallah, FATA and PLO? Or what you see, do you see any role for Hamas in this after the terror attacks, the 7th of October? Look, when I say Palestinians, I mean Palestinians. I'm a political person, and I think Palestinians include all parties, all individuals, all institutions. These are all Palestinians. The Palestinians have a system. Maybe it's imperfect. But as Churchill once said, democracy is imperfect, too. But what's the alternative? We will choose our leaders, we'll choose our leadership, we'll choose our parties in the best possible way. When we are giving the opportunity, we'll definitely do that. And therefore, I think the best way forward is to be as inclusive as possible. We have a political agenda. I mean, the PLO at least have a political agenda. I would like to see and unite all Palestinians around this agenda. And I think to the extent that anybody is interested to join forces under this umbrella, the PLO umbrella, under this agenda that's acceptable to the international community that will bring us hopefully peace and prosperity, everybody is welcome. When we meet in Davos in the year's time, maybe there's three scenarios for Gaza. Israel is still in Gaza. The second is that there's a solution where the government and the authorities in Ramallah will take responsibility as in the past. And maybe the third one will be a broader coalition on Gaza. I guess the third one will not be acceptable for Israel. Do you think what is most likely of the one on number two? Look, I mean, first of all, regardless of what happens, we are committed to bring the best possible outcome for our people, especially our people in Gaza. I mean, I think it's it's it's a bit risky to talk about anything political and anything beyond tomorrow or beyond next week, when still hundreds of thousands of people living live in hunger, live without any shelter, live without any medicine. It's hard to talk about all of this. But one could simply say that we would like to see Israelis leave Gaza as soon as possible. The earlier, the better. Killing, enough killing has been done already. More, the more they spend more time in Gaza, there will be more death. And that's not a good thing. Let's just keep it short. Let's get them out of Gaza as soon as possible. Now, I'm not naive to say that they're going to do that without proper arrangements. Let's talk about these arrangements as soon as possible. And as we said earlier, the solution is political. They have tried 400 days. I'm not a military expert, but ask any military expert, what did they achieve in these 100 days? I think they will say rather disappointing. So it's obvious the best way forward for all of us, including the Israelis, is statehood for Palestinians, peace for everybody, security for everybody. So the faster we can move to this, the better. So my expectation is that there will be enough wisdom in Israel. Maybe I'm optimistic. Maybe there's also enough realism in the world, and also enthusiasm in the region to move fast, hopefully in the coming few weeks, so they can put together a reasonable package that will provide the Israelis with the security they need, provide Gazans with the safety and humanitarian assistance they need, but also provide Palestinians with the statehood they need. So for me, this is the scenario. There's no other scenario. There are other things are details. And I think without going through this process so quickly, I think we'll all be failing. The best way forward, therefore, in my mind is the PA has been identified as the right entity to take over things when things are ready. And I think despite the talk about the readiness and lack of it, and I think we think we can collectively along with our partners in the region and in the international community to take up the challenge, improve the situation and prepare for peace. As an economist and also with your past in the World Bank, and I know you have done many assessment of what are the needs, not only on the humanitarian side, but on investments. But if you look at the situation in Gaza now, do we know at all what we're talking about, how many billions US dollars to restore? I guess if PA is going to get involved in Gaza, you also probably need guarantees from the international donor community, because you cannot administrate this if this continues like today. So we're in a very difficult situation. And Israelis are also in a complex situation, because if they stay, there will be limited resources to cover the humanitarian also situation, and it will be like a bleeding wound also in the years to come. And we have seen the polarization on both sides that can even escalate the whole Middle East situation more. Of course, we thought there was no escalation. And that was of course a good thing. But now we see the limited naval maneuver and maritime maneuver in the Red Sea. So all this is so interconnected. Correct. You're absolutely right. And I mean, the reconstruction effort is going to be huge. And the financial needs are significant. It's hard. I don't want to give numbers because I don't want to be quoted in this in early, early time. Can I be between the two of us, sir? I'll give you one example. I'll just give you one element of this. Just to give you an order of magnitude of how big the problem is. There's at least according to international reports, at least 350,000 housing units were either completely damaged or partially damaged. 350,000. Do a simple calculation. If you just want to build 150,000, not 350, assume that 200 will be repaired. 350,000 units. If you have an average cost of 100,000 units, $100,000 per unit, that's a 15 billion dollars of housing units. We still didn't talk about infrastructure. We didn't talk about the hospitals that were damaged. We didn't talk about the buildings, the grids, the electricity grids, water sanitation, clinics, hospitals, et cetera, et cetera. So the financial needs are huge. But again, as we said earlier, money will not solve Gaza's problem. It's going to take more than that. It's going to take a political solution, and it will take also a logistical revolution, if I can put it this way. The Economist magazine last issue called Gaza today a logistical nightmare. Because if you watch what's happening today, and how the humanitarian assistance is being handled, and how difficult for people just to get a drip of water or to get a food, some food from a truck that's coming, it's a disaster. It's scary. It's very sad. So even as we bring in things into Gaza, we need a proper system, well-managed system to handle the humanitarian effort. Without handling the humanitarian effort properly, we will all regret that we have not done enough to save the situation. So I will continue to focus on the humanitarian effort in the short term, in the medium term, but eventually we'll get to reconstruction, and we'll hopefully get the borders opened, and hopefully be able to go to a reconstruction conference like the one you and I worked on. And hopefully people will come in, but we will hopefully be able to commit to them that, yes, this time around, it's going to be the last time, and peace will come soon after that. A big thank you to Dr. Mustafa. Thank you.