 Hello, my name is Rosa Maria Costich-Cisneros and I am collaborating with the Independent Theatre Hungary. I am here with Michaela Dragun, who will be speaking with us about Del Duma. Welcome. Thank you for sitting down with me, Michaela. How are you today? Thank you for inviting me. I'm fine. I'm just glad that the summer is gone. It was too hot. Yes, yes. And where are you sitting today? Where are you based? I'm in Bucharest in Romania. Okay, thank you. And can you tell me a little bit about yourself, about your artistic practice? Well, I define myself as a multidisciplinary artist because I studied theatre, so I'm an actor and a playwright, but in the last years I also focused on performance art, on video art. The last year in the lockdown I was filming my first short, so yeah, I'm exploring other territories too. So I would better define myself as a multidisciplinary artist than an actor because, yes, this is my formation in theatre, but I am exploring and I am an artist who wants to work in progress artists, who always wants to learn and to work in other environments. Yes, and so can you tell us a little bit about the work del Duma? When you first create your relationship to the work and when you first were involved with the work? Yes, sorry, should I turn on the light because the sun today? No, it's fine. Yes. So I started work, I wrote the play actually in, at the end of 2020, the beginning of 2013, I had the premiere in June 2013, it was such a long time ago and it was the first theatre show that I created and regarding my Roma identity. I remember that it was a year after I graduated the theatre university and I had this plan, you know, that I make only a single Roma theatre show and afterwards I will return to the real theatre, you know, but becoming aware of all these issues, becoming aware of the Eurocentrism and how we the Roma actors internalize the standards and the way in which, you know, we should conform to the European standards, what is considered art, what is considered to be less art if it has also a political or a social component. So I think from that point when I've been working on Del Duma, tell them about me, I just, I felt that I am aware, you know, that I woke up from this lie that theatre art should be, you know, only in one way, the way in which the Europeans or the white people look at it. So that was the moment when I also decided to create a whole Roma theatre company with Roma actors focusing on our identity and our culture and history and so on. So I think this is a very nostalgic and important moment for me, remembering the process of working on Del Duma. It's a one-woman show. It's the first theatre play that I wrote. It's a very close topic that Del Duma touches. It's about early marriage, it's about women, it's about Roma women, it's about the diversity in our community, it's about deconstructing stereotypes about us, the Roma women, and also giving voice to the Roma women who still don't have a voice. I don't want to talk in their names, but in that moment I felt that I need to give this platform for their voices, for the women whose voices need to be heard through a theatre show. So basically Del Duma is a documentary theatre show based on the interviews that I had with different Roma women from different Roma communities and it's focusing on early marriage and also it's a lot of criticism regarding the way in which Roma women are seen in the society. But now looking back at the theatre play and because it was the first theatre play I wrote immediately after I graduated, it seemed that my discourse, in my art practice, I'm so different now. And I think that that's one of the powers about art is that it's constantly evolving and it offers insight into a topic or into a reality and sometimes that's timeless and classic, but also it's a journey and I think that it's important to remember that and as you're doing now. And in remembering this journey, do you have maybe a memorable moment, either sharing it with the women or sharing it with family or something that comes to mind that is memorable to you about either performing it or writing about it? There were so many memorable yes moments and one of them is the meeting with one of the heroines of the show of the place, Roxana. I wrote her story and is one of the stories from the show and I think the meeting with this woman impacted me a lot and empowered me a lot because she was a revolutionary in her community. She was part of a traditional Roma community at that moment. They were practicing early marriage. She made a whole revolution in her community, you know, promoting education and convincing parents to send their children to the school instead to get married. And yes, I was one of the persons that I always remember and she marked me a lot, she impacted me a lot. And also performing this show, I had so many important and meaningful meetings with the audience, with women that were part of the audience and they found themselves in the theater show. So yes, I would put on the top of the meeting with Roxana, one of the women from that I interviewed and her story appears in the theater play. And what would you like audiences to know about the work or what would be maybe a message about the work? If there's only one, sorry, there are probably many, but what would be some messages? Specifically about this theater show. So I wanted them to think that early marriage is one of the biggest stereotypes about us, about Roma women, that we have to talk about because there are still women that confront this issue and there are also non-Roma women. So it's not a thing that is characterized as a community. So it's something very difficult to do in a theater play to talk about early marriage in the Roma community and at the same time not to reinforce the stereotype that this is a Roma practice. So I want the audience to know the message is the way in which the whole society looks at the women and actually the virginity practice of the early marriage practice is a practice that it was brought by the Europeans, by the white people. It's not something that defines us as Roma people or as people of color and the message will be it will be focusing, will be addressed to all the people in power who needs to build protection and laws and institutions to protect these girls and young women and to invest in their education because it's clearly a gender issue, not an ethnic issue. And so can you maybe talk a little bit about the title of the work and if you had the title first or did that emerge as you were writing the piece? The title always comes again. This is how I'm always working and I'm very, you know, I'm pretentious. I don't know if this is the word in English. I'm very, you know, I always want to have a good title for my theater shows and this is why I'm writing so long. So it came somehow at the end because Der Duma means she speaks and I wanted to have a title in Romani language and yeah and this Der Duma she speaks and also tell them about me, about their story because when I met Roxana, the girl that I told about you, she had so many things to say to the world and she always repeated to me, tell them about these issues and this issue and this issue, tell them about our lives, our fights and our resistance. So this is how the title came up. That's beautiful. And you know, you've also said that you wanted to keep it a title in Romanes in Roma. So can you talk a little bit of why you wanted to do that and why that feels important to you? Because I want Roma people when they hear the title, you know, to get directly to them and I'm using Romani words many times in my theater shows also as a statement, you know. I want the Roma people to hear and to find themselves there and to get used with the fact that there are Roma actors and the Romani language can be used in art institutions. So yeah, I think I'm using a lot of Romani words and I like this. Absolutely. And is there anything else you'd like to share with the people about your work, about this particular piece? Maybe you want people to know something about the character or the names you've chosen or anything along those lines? So yes, I have to say that being a documentary theater show, all the stories are real and or based on reality and it was important for me to to work like that and not to intervene so much with my voice, you know, as an artist because I'm also a Roma woman but I'm not coming from a traditional community as many of us as I said and many times I felt privileged that, you know, I had a lot of support from my family and many of the stories that I made documenting this this theater play, they were a lot of girls that they had individual struggles in their community. So I felt so privileged that I wanted to keep up a lot their their voice and not to intervene so much and this is why I decided to also put my own story in the theater show to start with my own story that it was so different than the rest of the stories because I wanted audience to know that there is a lot of diversity in our community and we are not an homogeneous group, you know, so I they don't have to put us in boxes, you know. So I don't know, I'm curious now how people will look at this show after eight years, I'm also looking so different, so differently at it. So I would and also I want the audience to keep to keep this idea in their minds that early marriage is not an issue, it's not the practice, it's not the tradition, it's not the Roma tradition, it's an issue that is happening in many countries, in many communities, even in the western there are a lot of forced marriages, so it's an issue regarding women, it's not an ethnic issue, it's not something that defines us. And thank you so much for offering that point and for creating this work that also honors the voices of so many women like Roxana, and also your own story because I think it's so important to create spaces where people can engage and see material and see the diversity and plurality of the community. So thank you so much and yes I'm really grateful that there is work like Del Duma that also is about pride for women and for Roma and you know I just thank you so much, so yes. Thank you so much for having me and showing my first theater show. It's a journey, we're all on the journey, yes thank you, thank you.