 I haven't had ice cream yet The sound of I the trash cards in Taiwan sounds like ice cream trucks Yeah, that was one of the favorite parts of round two people love that Rick Rick puff flavored ice cream That neither perception nor non perception flavor Haha, the flavor of dependent origination Do all those Dharma words are like great for like ice cream names or like sneaker names. Yes, that's good We will leverage the infinite consciousness Yeah, they're joining for the two Kananas Let's get to the question boom Frank and I were crowd sourcing Epic questions from you guys for our first infinite brah AMA and Let's jump right in to the questions, which we have Ranked approximately 20 of them based on what we felt were not only of high interest for Answers for you guys overall to here But also ones that we felt like we could actually engage with so we'll have Frank Start us off. Our first question is in your journey Did you at some point have to let go of the attachment to your meat suit or did it fall off on itself? Never I've never had to consciously detache myself from doing anything on the spiritual path Um The only thing that I did throughout this whole path Was meditate and do self-inquiry two to three hours every day Aside from that, I just did whatever the fuck I wanted to do and I think that could be a plus in a sense that In a way Trying to stop yourself from doing something is also ego Right on the spiritual path something go like hmm. Should I stop working out because that's ego Well, the desire to try to stop working out is also ego and one of the best ways to dissolve the ego is To exhaust it brah is to love yourself Accept your shadows Accept your desire so completely that you don't see them anymore You're penetrating through them By loving it By loving every particle in your being desire or no desire So your entire character the separate itself can dissolve into love and die And that's how you manifest all of reality Dying to the extraordinary so I did not Detach myself from working out, but I would say that it does drop out automatically like whatever it isn't beneficial to your journey is Going to drop away on its own So while I still work out and I've been working out through my whole entire journey the attachment to the outcome of Working out gets less and less and less You only enjoy the process at the end in a sense I like working on even more now because every rap is eternal every rap is timeless I can feel the sensation every micro sensation on every contraction every extension And I don't have a goal before I was working out for that image of Arnold is this or the future Frank gay in the head Now I'm just working out for the pure sensations. No other reason then because I like it. It feels good Now Funny thing is I Don't get tired anymore when I work out. I don't get out of breath if I do the same amount in a single gym session Right now versus before I Can actually squeeze in more sets more wraps right now than before Why because first of all your whole body is now relaxed Why is your whole body relaxed after waking because you're no longer inside the head and behind the eyes We spend so much of our energy trying to maintain the illusion of the separate so kind of imagine The separate self into existence that takes a tremendous amount of brainpower, bro After you unhook awareness from Inside the head to everywhere nowhere Which has always been the case If you do physical tasks like running working out Your conditions gets increased when I say condition. I mean like your work capacity. You don't get tired. You don't get out of breath as easily Yeah Because when you live it's almost like you're lifting through the universal will when you lift it's just a universal lift When you eat just the universe eating and I don't have to think about what I have to do the next set I don't have to think about what I eat It's all autopilot Yeah And I have no attachment to my body right now like I could be a fat lord tomorrow wake up morning and be a fat lord I will not give the fuck But while nothing matters. Anyway, would you rather be a spiritual shredded cunt or a spiritual fat cunt Yeah, you don't really have to let go of anything because whether it's detrimental to your journey is always going to dissolve By itself if you do the practice if you do the inquiries Because whatever is not necessary. It's gonna automatically gets sucked back into the wake You just have to make sure that You're aligned Do what is authentic to you. It's all about authenticity and both Both of those both of those. Yeah, because after a while you after a while you kind of you you can sense the energy like my entire My entire life before awakening I had to think about whether I'm doing this for good or for bad Like is it good for my character? Is it bad for my character? But after waking you don't think about it anymore. You just get a kind of a sense You don't think about it. You just kind of get a like a sixth sense There's nothing intellectual about it. Just kind of get a sense. Is this a line This is what I'm gonna do a line with the truth or not And so far lifting weights has absolutely no effect on my alignment With truth in fact when I'm working now when I'm really like just dying into every rep I'm more aligned than You know, not lifting maybe I don't know but I'm just saying that When I'm working now, I'm not I'm not less aligned with the truth than when I'm Not working out so I like the answer of both because the flower Effortlessly blossoms towards the sun. So that's the falling off itself But that happens simultaneously as the egoic Grasping also dissolves And so you detach yourself And those happen simultaneously Let's move to the second question Can a bipolar person awaken slash how does bipolar play a part in awakening? I actually wrote an answer to that already somebody already asked me so Because I had to play a lot of bipolar tendencies pre awakening um So I wrote it down I had some bipolar tendencies and I think I gave up Wait a second. Hold on a second. Okay. Sorry. I read it wrong. So I had some bipolar tendencies before awakening And I think that gave me an extra meditation I can dissolve and sync up sensations much quicker and more efficiently with more power Same with ADHD Which is all about contracting your attention to a single point of a laser beam By excluding everything else and vice versa The more you can contract the more you can expand and relax Now all I have to do is totally let go I relax the mind and the big mind conscious this Is literally glued to the sky as the sky With no distance and separation and the whole world. It's not just inside it but made up of the same know me Same with my years of struggling with sex addiction prepared The energy used to pull girls is sucked back into the kandolini to fuck the universe while the universe fucks me And after the big band, I haven't suffered the slightest bit Same with many awakened individuals who took a quantum leap over the mind and reached nibana Many had quote-unquote mental illnesses They're already tapping into or dancing at the edge of the mind All you need to do is the right methods and techniques a little push But on this path you transcend the mind so insanity insanity It's no longer relevant a duality between sanity and sanity is transcendent It seemed to us empty and nonsensical neither inside nor outside I think this is why this path makes certain artists and musicians and writers Better for certain writers the musicians found more success on the path Because they're really the same thing A lot of artists and musicians are already at the edge of the minds And they're looking for truth They're trying to use the medium of writings and art and music To try to dissolve the separation That's why you get a glimpse of the transcendence when you hear a beautiful piece of music and such Yeah, but you know spirituality is just a more direct way To embody that truth without the medium of the middleman of say art or sex or music But this isn't a goal if I mental illness If you're a naturally calm person this advantage is as well The point is if you're a sincere and serious about the path and truth There will be a divine gravitational port towards universal totality And whatever body might advantage or disadvantage that you have will be rewired and realigned to fit the path Until perception we entangle itself as stretches to infinity. Yeah, perfect It's always nice when there's already been a well thought out detailed reply On it that you can pull up to answer. That's great So we'll also Put all these questions below and then maybe later time stamp them to help you guys out So you guys can sift through the exact Time that the questions were answered. Go ahead, Frank. The the mystical heights Uh, that you can kind of do in the pad is actually very Um close to the bipolar manic episode I mean, if you don't look at if you don't quantify things as being spiritual Or this is a condolini awakening or this is uh mental illness Like at the cellular level, maybe it's not that much different And there's not that much different because what is schizophrenia? Schizophrenia is the process of the breaking down of the ego but So during the process of awakening a lot of people actually go through psychotic episodes that is very uh closely Aligned with the symptoms of a bipolar disorder and schizophrenia Because you realize you're not the sub you're not the ego. What is that? That's schizophrenia So you wake up from the ego the process can feel extremely schizophrenic But then after you return to the natural state, you realize that this is the first time I ever experience sanity Again transcending the duality between insanity and sanity So even saying that insanity is already making a distinction. So we talked about that in the first podcast where the natural state is the unaltered state of consciousness We're doing the awakening process where you experience the darkness of the soul and the spiritual high is the kind of linear awakenings where you're consciously explosive universe Which is two sides of the coin all that is still Ultra-state consciousness. So when people ask me, man, I'm afraid I'm gonna go insane Well, even before you got into spirituality and experience all this mystical states You were already critically insane So you don't need to ground yourself in clinical sanity doing the spiritual path because you're being insane all your life and doing the process That's just more insanity until It is identified from all the states in current natural state and realize that before waking it's always sanity Yeah, I highly recommend tuning into the absolute normie episode we just did prior to this and I would also highly recommend that given your exact blueprint to leverage All of its nuances as gifts on your path So see bipolar or whatever it is that is The deep conditionings or traumas Leverage those on your path as your gifts As well as you can And I would like to jump us into the next question and bring in the point that frank mentioned in the answer To the last question to talk about this How do antidepressants? anti-anxiety medications etc affect awakening do these things prevent awakening? frank what took us through the process of When we undergo the contracted egoic separate self-identity dissolving Especially when we've turned inward and become more Abidant in the formless consciousness or awareness that Especially when we begin in a sense declining physicalism It can very much trigger Especially when you start saying things like I am god Where you have in the east you will have The applause Non-duality is being realized Excellent And in the west it will be get this person to a medical institute as soon as possible And so you have what I've seen across my own friends and others Where the process That we've described Can trigger family friends society to Medicaid One that is awakening and that We collectively will evolve and awaken ourselves over time to synthesize the east and west together better and to become more Aware of what awakening truly is and not prescribe the medications at those times because if you look at awakening it's You're waking up out of society and out of the norms out of all the conditions within society. So in a sense, it's completely flying against the face of quote-unquote normality right, so a lot of uh, western psychologists or psychiatrists They themselves don't have Experiences that people are undergoing when they take on the spiritual path And it's very tricky to navigate that that's why people like Daniel Ingram says that We need more psychiatrists out there a therapist That knows about the maps of insight and about what people go through if not directly experienced Maybe they can read about some research on why some people when they undertake the spiritual path Go through those different modes of experiences down my mirror Psycho psychotic And I would just like to also add that in the future especially as we get even better at Neuro pharmacology We'll get to a point where we'll leverage The entheogenic capacities along with these neuro pharmacologies In the west to merge with the eastern non-dual spirituality And we'll be able to really sort of awaken ourselves faster and faster So there is a positive side as well That we have yet to really unlock but frank so on point that it would be excellent for the Doctors training into the MCAT for example to have a portion of it be around the eastern medicines and spiritualities holistic practice If you look at spirituality the path of people the stages that people go through stages of insight It's almost universal. It's almost like that is what the mind would go through when it's undergoing the process of dis-identification Or quote-unquote upgrading your consciousness even soldiers when you look at soldiers. There's a lot of soldiers experience Godlike states during battles Because they're extremely concentrated When you're in an extremely concentrated state when your life is at stake You can access Janas You can access oneness And what happens after the battle PTSD, what is that dark now the soul after the spiritual high you go through the spiritual lows unless you truly You know have a have an insight and lock The spiritual highs and the spiritual lows when you have a permanent perceptual shift with something like a fruition or whatever You're gonna cycle back and forth so and people don't understand the fact that This is what the mind goes through When it's put under those kind of situations, whether that's the spiritual path or it going in battles Or even if you take a lot of psychedelics, you're gonna go through the same stages The process of dis-identifying the solution of the condition of the separate self Or the process of getting into certain very highly concentrated states The experiences of that doesn't matter what domain you're in. It's almost universal And funny thing when you mention like western Psychiatrists because if you look at what uh, Ramana Maharshi says if you just take The exact same word that Ramana says if you lie to western Psychiatrists who has no idea about eastern spirituality read the wisdom of Ramana The western psychiatrists will think that he's fucking insane if you just take the words At the surface level keep like this is someone that needs to be taken into the mental hospital, right? So it's very very interesting Whereas many people in the east would look over at the insanity of the west and say that they need to go to the spiritual monastery Okay, cool. Next question is how to get past experiencing awareness as being everywhere Okay, so I think what he's asking is how to go beyond even the initial stages of non-duality um In my videos, I often talk about illustrating with uh visual metaphors and images about how awareness It's unhooked from the head Actually, awareness doesn't get unhooked from the head. It's already not in the head from the mental direct experience Awareness is already everywhere. It's already panoramic at 360 um but Even before you completely dissolve the center point Of the separate self you can experience the 360 awareness While still being locked inside the head and behind the eyes That's the same thing we talked about in the earlier podcast where you're a separate entity experiencing divine Versus the complete drop in the way of the center or the self or it's just divinity recognizing itself There's only awareness being aware of itself without the center point the receiver the hearer thinker So to get past that all you have to do is continue the dissolution Now you got to the stage from dissolving most of your egos and now your identity is in awareness So you're abiding awareness to continue the process of dissolution And if you're still in the center and you still perceive an awareness as being this field of panoramic consciousness While still feel like you're in the head perceiving that all you have to do is just pay attention to dissolving the aggregates You dissolve the seer dissolve the hear Dissolve the feeler the doer the thinker And you realize all those different aggregates are just more solidified sensations cluster around Your body or in the head that's trying to take credit Trying to hijack other sensations as being self Another way to do this. That's the more of the passion of kind of path dissolve conditions by penetrating through sensations But you could also do self inquiry if you can be aware of awareness that you can still objectify it So you in here in the center perceiving awareness. Do you see awareness? Are you conscious of this infinite consciousness? If yes Then that could still be disidentified from First you say i'm not the ego Can you say i'm not awareness and i'm not consciousness and eventually you get around to a wall Where the observer is observing the observed where you're observing the observer There's like a screen here and then the screen is looking at itself And then the next step is to surrender And disappear into the what is Perfect next excellent We touched a little bit on this a little bit ago. What is an ego death? Is it possible that the ego has many lives? Um, yes, so first of all On the ultimate picture There is no such thing as the ego because we talked about how the ego is just contracted sensation contracted energy Where god consciousness is just more expensive energy But it's the same clinical particle of subjective experience which can be broken down through sensations So there really is no ego except for contracted sensations. So the ego was never alive gonna go alive So there is no such thing as ego death. So it would be fair to say that ego equals contracted sensations. Yes Or identify sensations contracted identified sensations. Yes So the ego was never alive because what is the ego the ego is just a thought It's just a thought Fundamentally no different from any other thoughts that's arising and passing out of nowhere any direct experience This the thought of the self is no different from the thought of a bird or sky or tree, right? But then due to conditioning we tend to contract the energy around this thought of the ego Right, so if the thought of the ego is just more sensations and if sensations in them themselves are not aware The ego it was never alive What is aware awareness is aware awareness is aware of the ego Awareness is aware of the sound of birds awareness is aware of your body But in and of themselves body ego birds In your field of experience is not in aware. It's not aware You see the pointer sensations in and of themselves are like objects It's awareness. That's aware of itself Right This is really hard to explain But look at the good job They look at the ego like a cup When I perceive my ego, it's the same thing as perceiving a cup Right, we mistaken the ego to be something that's alive. That's doing the perceiving But there was never such an entity Saying that the ego is alive. It's like saying the cup is alive Well, you could say that yeah everything is alive because everything is god You could say that too, but if you want to do this kind of self finger practice um It's efficient to remind yourself that the ego Was never alive Because sensations are not alive and conscious only consciousness is conscious So the only way to transcend the ego Is not to kill the ego because you can't kill something that's not alive You try to come up with something else like killer of the ego just more ego It's just more contractions. This is my identities The only thing you could do is abide awareness About this new identity, this new ground and then continue to dissolve Solidities of sensations I let go of the whole idea of the ego. That's the first thing just let go of the idea that there isn't an ego in the first place Ego is not an entity Something made up if you can if you make something up you can stop making it up right now You're imagining the ego into existence moment to moment In general the seeking impulse arises in the contracted conditioned separate self and the turn is After exhausting everything outward for peace and happiness the turn is inward and then the process as frank described in the last episode absolutely normie is Step by step rather than creating these names of ego dissolution and step. It's just overall more and more Relaxation into the dissolving of all of those conditions separate self yes, and then that's The what can be said as these potential possible ego many lives Because I described in the last episode as well and every single one of these points There has been this Cheeky cunty reemergence Latching on spiritual cunt identity now This guy knows he must post and share with other people Yeah, so the only thing you can do is just just express just express just express the ego to its fullest extent until exhausted That's why spirituality is always quote over at the end of people's journey after they have exhausted all the other eco tendencies So the only thing you can do to dissolve the ego is witness it accept it And love it love the ego to death Love the ego to death when you love the ego to death. He dissolves into love with the capital l And yes, the ego can have many lives just like what we talked about in the absolute normie video transcendence of the self you can have a temporary transcendence of the ego an experience But the ego always comes back because it's an experience not a full blown permanent realization So let's go through the three stages that you first you have an intellectual understanding With the mind second you have an experience of that understanding a temporary glimpse into truth An experience but ego always comes back because experiences are not permanent they come and go Third you lock that experience into a realization a permanent perceptual shift to what is you realize that Whoa, there was never a self to begin with and this is true for everyone There was never an ego to begin with The ego is never alive. You see through the true nature of what makes up an ego. You can never believe it again Yet, it's our greatest tool the contracted separate self With all of its conditionings and attachments and cravings and aversions Is the greatest tool to spirituality to spirituality. It's the big sledgehammer of suffering Yeah, it's like this bro. Um, well the ego has to be so big and you suffer so much. There's no way out That's why a lot so many seekers They start seeking because they're suffering so much or they have huge egos a lot of like celebrities and Whatever they go through this entire life just being the ego and they just feel the ego just started exhaust itself Like okay now mic thai said now i'm gonna smoke some 500 ml DMT right um and it's funny because it's the That the seeker has to exhaust itself So before the seeker is completely exhausted the seeker the the egoic state of the seeker It's okay to be super strong. It's okay to be like i'm gonna gain light I'm gonna get spiritual especially awakened. I'm gonna be a spiritual conch. Sure. Why not just accept that? It's a cool tip. And then you realize at the end of the path there is no such thing as the ego Self no self are just different contraction expansion of sensations. That's it And the whole path becomes void You know what somebody said to me today frank Isn't it just a trap that you think you're done? Well, let me tell you there's two biggest trap in spirituality First thinking that you're not done second thinking you're done Because you're saying non duality everything that non duality teacher say is true. That's not need to do you're full in line right now But you might not recognize this but You might not fully recognize this truth right away But it's just as much of a trap as thinking that there's more to go. There's always more to go There's always more out to set of consciousness Sure, there is right there's we can continue to explore I'll just set up not just this and after you realize emptiness and close the circuit of infinity You can continue to be a more compassionate person Or make better ice creams But the thing I always emphasize is that at least the inside axis the wisdom axis realizing What has always been the case has an endpoint when infinity closes in on itself Where can you go except for looping back in itself infinitely? Can I go anywhere else right here right now? You cannot get any more infinite than infinite you can't get any more empty than empty But how you fill this emptiness with form how you express this emptiness through a podcast or Through making ice creams making art through teaching maybe or through being a prostitute. That's infinitely fully complex You can always read more comic books and be a better boyfriend And don't make a stain on your toilet bra. Don't be an asshole literally Pure potential Yes pure potential It's like the state is almost like that before there was a form the the potentiality before There was manifestation Hmm And even Now the pure potential now also. Yes. Yes. Also. It's it's both manifested and manifested Yeah infinite possibilities, baby pure potential How do you keep going if it gets scary? Well, uh, there was this quote that I heard from a zaymaster. He said what is a zaymaster? It's nothing but a torque guy to take you from heaven to hell simultaneously and very quickly You think you can go to heaven without going to hell think again The two sides of the same coin So I'll say spiritual awakening is about transcending the duality between heaven and hell But the only way to transcend this duality to get into that space that gives rise And it's outside of the union circle of both heaven and hell Is to go through them all cycle back and forth to heaven and hell heaven and hell continuously Until you abide in that source that gives rise to both So how do you keep going if it gets crazy the one thing I like to remind people when they're going through like, you know Really rough times on the path is your consciousness is getting upgraded You cannot experience upgrade without some intentions Without resistance think of fitness. You think your muscles can grow If you don't experience some sort of pain and tension while lifting Oh every growth Happens because of stress and tension, but if it gets too crazy Maybe just yes, I got you just I don't know There's a fine line here Like I don't want to just tell people that man Some people really have a tough time with this Some people go through like true mental breakdowns that they came in with function And for that kind of people it's not the wisest to advise them to man Hey man, this is all part of the spirituality meditating That might not be good advice. So One of the one of the cores for what you just were sharing is that upon this Turning inward and deepening of spiritual awakening and dissolving of the conditioned separate self that It's actually really important to take this piece of wisdom which is If you can because you might not be able to hear it right now But do not take the Minor awakenings that you're having and go and begin zealously sharing them with your family and friends and community and society because You don't know who Is going to slap the gold right out of your hands And it's better for you to specifically identify people That would be good For this exact topic For example, all the people that reach out to frank right now And the people that are reaching out to me Are people that have had Parts of this spiritual awakening and now what is happening is Leveraging somebody else that has been there done that and also That understands and can be a valuable resource And that is loving and compassionate and wise in their sharing and Like we mentioned on the absolute normie episode the more emptied out The more it enables One who is approaching to get their own chakras Unblocked as well so really keep Vigilance with upon these awakenings to okay who is a truly trusted person To talk to about this the amount of people that message me and say that You're the person that I know that I'm going to go to about spiritual awakening stuff Because they know that it's somebody that they know that they can trust because if they turn to their family The family will slap it out of their hands And that can promulgate some of the scariness stuff is oh my gosh. They're telling me they're going to take me to a hospital now We touched on that a little bit earlier as well So really find that satsang that truth community Really find that as along your path cool All right, please touch on the concept of going meta Uh going meta is basically just Go into the next level and then observe the level you were in before from the more chance and dental perspective And I think the whole process of spirituality is about going meta First you're an ego and then you witness the ego from awareness And then you become aware of awareness. That's also great meta Uh, that's why in a lot of my videos. I like to use like uh regional metaphors of a screen and then Zoom out from screen. There's another screen on the screen on the screen. We've all seen that right? um That's going meta the infinite fractals. That's the ultimate meta fuck Because it's only from The higher perspective can you? dissolve And let go of the previous one because the mind cannot understand itself An ego can never kill itself. It's only by going meta Can you absorb? And disidentify from And comprehend the previous level So whatever level that you are on right now go meta keep going meta until the circle closes in on itself When this meta nests the meta nests that i'm experiencing right now is very different from before before i'll be like Witness something from below but now the meta nests. It's almost like it's just that it's that it's that that's the ultimate meta It's when the if the loop closes on itself That's the ultimate meta the stage balance on tail universe fucking itself. That's the ultimate meta When every moment is just that's the ultimate meta But before you get to this point You're gonna have to be meta from one perspective and then witness another perspective and the two can be different But ultimately when you close the loop, it's just the same Method this Just god fapping to itself Everything is already meta So it's by Natural that the spiritual path is about going meta if you look at a lot of arts a lot of like post-modern literature It's all about going meta. Why are they going meta? They're like thinking about this thing They're thinking about this situation. They're trying to create something creative out of this current situation And then boom they go to another level That's why a lot of like post-modern like literature and Films you see a lot of stuff that is going meta like being John Malkovich Even like matrix is kind of like going meta. There's a lot of examples of Things where you know, you think this is the reality then boom like oh away. Have you seen away? Or like you think this is reality, but boom. It's a movie set. That's going meta And then you're like, holy shit, that's the movie set then you're going meta from going meta You're like, oh shit. I'm watching a movie set of a movie set of a movie set. That's going meta But honestly like to learn anything to understand anything you have to go meta It's the most important super weapon of the mind The mind has the ability to disidentify from itself and witness itself from a higher perspective The whole process of being a human is going meta Yeah beautiful perfect Would you recommend five m e o d m t during or instead of meditation for someone who does not have significant chemical experience? Um, you know it depends on the individual It all depends on the individual I used to recommend uh five m e o d m t only to people that meditated for like at least like five thousand hours But I don't know if I mean I can't say that because I have a bias tendency towards uh, just acquiring those states that I'm talking about naturally because even though I've done, uh Stuff like five m e o d m t All my shifts all my big bangs and you know all my big crunches all my awakenings were the result like true General awakenings that had a permanent shift perceptual shift All my genuine awakenings were the result of applying the technique naturally self-increasing vipassana Uh, zongchian do not do meditation stuff like that So I I don't know I don't know. I think if you have a good base I think if you have a good base of either one you could Because like meditation could be just as chronicle dangerous People can go to a vipassana retreat and they could go crazy Just like people can take a lsd trip for 12 hours and they can feel like they're going insane. So Ultimately, there really is no different, right? So but I would say the two feet on each other if you have a good base during meditation then Um dmt might be a little bit chronicle safe, right? You might feel a little bit more grounded when doing dmt or if you someone likes Like leo guru who's done like so much dmt and he's like super grounded in his like five mile trip If he goes to like a 30 day retreat, maybe like he'd be easy for him because he's already Kind of like wired his brain to experience all those different crazy outer states on five in dmt if we take What five a meo dmt is we classified as an entheogen so unleashing god within and we We add that to The list of like we were describing the do nothing meditation vipassana self-inquiry etc We want these two to complement each other So just remember that entheogens are not necessarily a substitute But they're a compliment So Especially if you don't have significant entheogenic experience I would highly recommend especially Five a meo dmt is known specifically as this god molecule rocketing you into the nature and undergoing about a half dozen or so Experiences with five a meo dmt myself I've done them specifically with people that are extremely well trained and shamanic in the practice And I would also recommend that as well And at a much lower dose So maybe a fourth or something of the recommended Dose to start especially without significant chemical experience similar to when people Inquire into my entheogenic experience with magic mushrooms. I will Definitely as frank mentioned individual Percentalize the recommendation so Typically starting off with something like a fourth of a gram can be a great little micro dosing experience for magic mushrooms. So Now specifically during has been really interesting I also underwent a process of intaking some LSD towards the end of my Vipassana meditation retreat one of one of them one of the later ones that I attended And that was very interesting I would I would definitely encourage playing with the Self-inquiry or meditation practice simultaneously with entheogens Actually, it's probably been the most profound thing That I could recommend is getting a really solid foundation in these Stages that frank and I unpacked in the absolute normie episode and then To partake in using entheogens in Larger doses once you have sort of built up your ability to handle that About twice a year So about once every six months And you'll experience typically a deepening and confirming of what you've been experiencing on the Meditation side of things. Yeah To me the psychedelic trips are just their glimpses. So what's possible in the in the uh in the natural state Sorry, not the natural state but During the process because natural state is beyond both psychedelics and meditation It's funny because when you reach the natural state you realize the first thought I had After my realization is like this thing has nothing to do with psychedelics. It has nothing to do with meditation About spirituality all traditions all methods are void They're just tools to ejaculate yourself out of the dreamscape But once you're out you realize that all those methods still belong to the dreamscape So in that sense both meditation and psychedelics are just tools and it's not like one is better than the other They're just tools for you to dissolve conditionings and the effects of it In some sense is the byproduct of that dissolution And in my own experience, whatever you can glimpse on psychedelics is a preview or window into what you can experience naturally And you prime yourself to access those states doing janas or smotties things like that But at the end you could have no experience at all It's still return to the natural state because some people barely had any experiences throughout the past So I don't because I talk about experience a lot because of my own path. It's crazy experiences because I'm a crazy motherfucker This is my personality Right. I'm always very extreme So my path is going to be clean but a lot of people they try to master experiences onto mine, which I think is mistake Because some people barely had any experience because again realization is not an experience You can have a lot of realizations and if you're a character your body might it's already pretty pure And there's not a lot of conditions to dissolve You might not feel a lot of crazy experiences And that's probably good because then you have less things to let go of I mean experiences are beautiful, you know, I look back on the path and like holy shit those experiences man Wow cosmic sex But at the end You have to let go of each one of them. You have to let go of each one of your spiritualizations Each one of your special experiences You transcend for They don't they don't go where you can still access them, but you transcend It's holding on to any particular state They do a clean and suffer What is the difference between cessation in meditation stream entry and going unconscious slash forgetting where your mind went The difference is When you enter a session through meditation you're actually Either go through all the jhanas you go through all eight jhanas and you slip into the secession Which means that by this point your mind is already being primed you're training your mind through contemplative fitness to get into that state Which means that you're making changes to the neoparticity of your brain at the cellular level Well, it's falling asleep. You just fall asleep But the state itself the dreamless state versus the dead state of secession is the same But the point of a secession is not the state state the state itself because non-existence Nothing to talk about right. It's the it's the inside the interest into it and the returning from it That is the most important So you can enter secession through a very high concentrated state And that changed your mind to operate at a different level And when you see particle by particle how each your entire field of experience is constructed Is fabricated particle by particle And you disappear into nothing into death and you you come back and you see how your entire universe Is they reconstructed again. You understand the deep experiential level that oh, it's all just a fabrication But during sleep, you're not gonna get that you're not gonna get that from just falling asleep You're not gonna get the inside you How do you know when you've hit stream entry? Ah There we go Man, I I gotta charge this. Oh, okay Are you charging me? Take your time Really? You guys okay with this? We're empty full he Yeah, the this podcast is so long my my camera. I can't take it Absolute normie episode. It was two whole hours We've gotten through Half of our questions, which is pretty good in about an hour Yeah, you're not gonna edit this right because what about the pauses and stuff? Yeah, we're streaming now and we will keep the asset up. Yeah, we'll just keep the asset up and then What we will do is we will time stamp the specific questions to help Everyone out when they Restore rewatch Okay, it's charging now. Okay, but then the computer is a seven percent. I think we should uh try to hurry up Why don't you charge the computer instead and then we'll um Don't worry about the gopro for now Or find or find a second charger. I have a second charger. There you go. That's an even better solution Okay, so we got a second charger I Second charger Thanks for tuning in everyone life talking to life or one intelligence talking to itself I Got a charger I got a charger Yay Here that's right Okay, so Do you have your laptop connected to power? Yes, no, I don't I gotta do that right now. Good. There you go. Okay All right So what's next? Um stream entry. Okay Um The surest way that you know you hate stream entry is if you had a fruition or a secession Which is what we talked about earlier Um, see when you reach a secession It's most likely that you've run through all the janas and each jana is just a level satisfied a level of the mind that gets Embedded definitely move from jana to jana and jana right um, so once you hit a secession that means A good amount of your condition is in your mind. So the dream state has been dissatisfied from That's why a secession is one of the key factors that indicate is upstream entry but Um, not everybody Um reports stream entry. Sorry. Now everybody reports a sessions There are people who don't follow the repulsion on path have definitely hit a stream entry Just by seeing through the dissolution of the self Uh, but don't they don't report, um secessions and some teachers like Daniel Ingram think that you have to have a secession Or there's no awakening other people don't other people are like, you know, you don't secession is not really interesting and Some other teachers think that you might have a secession. You just don't know because the sessions can sound as very quick You just kind of blink out exit and come back So you might have a secession. You don't even know it So, how do you know if his stream entry aside from a secession is At the stream entry at least from my personal experience the first thing I notice from moment to moment experience is the perceptual shift where Consciousness or awareness is not unhooked from the head and there's this bubble of panoramic Field that's surrounding the character, but after stream entry this bubble is still very limited. It's very small It's not like infinite. It's there. You can still sense the distortion in the field. There's still like a bubble So I was walking around like Like perceived the world through this bubble, right? And then as you go down to the path the bubble gets bigger and bigger Eventually when the self completely dissolves the bubble also pop So another way to know that your history mention is that you feel like awareness is somehow unhooked from the head that's why people ask me if I enter stream entry one of the first questions that I ask is Where is your awareness now? your relationship to the self And if you can clearly see without a doubt That the ego of the self is constructed. That's a fabrication that it's imaginary Then there's a pretty good change that your instrumentary Another one is reduction of suffering Even after the stream entry for me was like one percent of wow. That's a really profound one So we could even potentially say that stream entry could be Just realizing how much of a falsity Ego and separate self is You can say that so after stream entry, there's always going to be a reduction of suffering That reduction could be five percent That's great. Yeah, yeah because you have this new space For the ego to operating after stream entry, there's still a self there's still separation there's still an ego But you have this much more spacious feel to awkward and this relates to you go one level meta which So almost like each level you go meta. There's a decrease in suffering Yeah, there's a decrease in suffering because that the character gets smaller and smaller from inside the head to You know, then you witness the character from the awareness and then you dissolve even the witness and then now you're abiding in the godhead And the suffering gets reduced more and more and more as the character gets smaller and smaller and smaller upon dissolution Excellent. Okay. Now, let's do please explain the three doors to cessation The three doors to secession, uh, the first door The first door you have The suffering door the suffering door is when You've peeled away all your identifications What and who you thought you were And there's always gonna be suffering there Because you it's like skinning yourself alive Until you hit a secession But of course one secession is not gonna she's not gonna peel everything off. There's just one go right so You go through sessions, uh, many many times and you could go through the suffering door many many times Or you can go to the other two doors each one of those doors would uh secession or creation will occur Uh, the second door, uh, it's not in order. This is, you know The different doors the second door is The door of no self The door of no self is when you start to witness The ego From the clinical screen of god So before you win the screen of the ego and then you witness the screen of the ego from the screen of god And then as they get closer and closer to Lights out this is secession Screen of god swallows the screen of the ego That's going meta that that's the best example of going meta if you want to hit a secession Just keep going meta until Yeah, and you realize they're actually the same thing That the person looking out through the eyes behind the head Is the same as the observer it's the same as the godhead But then before you realize they're the same before you completely dissolve the duality between the observed and the observed Do you think they're separate so you create two screens on the screen of the frank the screen of god and then The emerges one that's how you go through the the cessation door of no self the third one is impermanence that's when you start to dissolve um that's when you observe sensations at the microscopic level you go you know really fast really fast really fast and And then once you get down to the bottom of everything, you realize that, hey, everything is actually freeze frames, because what is a movie made out of? A movie is made out of different frames, right? And that's what gives rise to impermanence. It's one frame after another frame after another frame after another. So when you go really deep into impermanence, it actually comes to a standstill. With nothing is arising, nothing is passing. So actually you go through a freeze frame, and then boom, lights out. Because you're entering that space between two frames almost. So that's the impermanence door. When you observe impermanence, it's such a microscopic, fine-grained detail that you come to the source of movement, too. That's the impermanence door. So to observe that, you just observe sensations arising and passing, right? And you go closer and closer to the source of it. See, Shijun Yang said a lot of people can observe sensation arising, but they can't observe sensations passing. You need to observe both. It's easier to observe a sensation's side, thought, body sensations, emotions, sound, whatever. That's popping out from nowhere. But then it's when you follow it, you follow it, you follow it, you follow it, and then it goes back to that nowhere. That's observing a very micro-sensation through impermanence. And a secession happens through the door of impermanence when you're not just observing one sensation arising and passing. You're actually observing the entire field of experience arising and vanishing. So your entire field of experience becomes this huge sensation. Whole universe becomes one single sensation that arises and passes. That's impermanence at the deepest level, and that will lead to secession where your entire universe vanishes and appears again. Boom. How is secession like shadow work on steroids? See, in my own experience, secession indicates a completion of a cycle of insight. So you go through the whole cycle of insight, and then you get a secession. So what constitutes a cycle of insight? You have several different stages. I'm not gonna mention them all, but the three most prominent stages are the rising and passing away, which is your spiritual highs, and the darkening of the soul, which is spiritual lows. Now, those are, again, just a byproduct of this identifying from your mind. And then you have equanimity. After you realize that, wait a second, spiritual highs and spiritual lows are just two sides of the same coin, you go into a state of equanimity. You accept the situation. You just surrender. And then after you surrender, you disappear and die. That's completely impossible. So all your stuff come out. So you do shadow work. You're observing what's going on. You're like letting all your shadows come out. And again, shadow work, what is a shadow? But the other side of the extreme of, you know, the lighting of the list, right? So when a suggestion occurs, it's actually when you have all the stuff, all this condition or separation masqueraded as in the spiritual highs and spiritual lows that just surface, surface, surface. And then you experience both all the highs and the lows and then you accept both as being the same. You go to a state of equilibrium. And then boom, when a suggestion happens, it's almost like, boom, you jump onto the next level, next dimension. You reset the brain, you reset your reality until you go to the next stage and you go to the cycles again, again, again, again. So when a suggestion happens, it's almost like you went through a whole cycle of cleanup. And then you go to the next cycle and then again and again. So each time a suggestion happens, it's the end of a cycle of dissolution. So it's almost like this black hole that just sucked all your conditioning out at once after you let them out. So essentially it sucked into the void and then you come back alive and then you go through it again. That's why every time after a suggestion you feel like, you feel like you're relieved. It's almost like you took a huge nap, why? Because you went through a cycle. Whatever shadows that you're working with at that moment was just left behind to the previous dimension. As emptiness dissipates the heart and mind into oneness. What does one extrapolate back into reality? Everything. So I guess that's sort of that. I'm not sure what the end of that question really means. But I think what he's asking is after, I guess what he's asking is after you realize emptiness, what's next, I guess? Partly, but also I do feel like the question is asking about utility. Okay, what is the point of being oneness after you realize emptiness? As emptiness dissipates the heart and mind into oneness, what does one extrapolate back into reality? A state that is not conditioned by separate self. So a state that is perpetually, spontaneously in rhythm with life itself. And anytime that it arises that there's something, an untruth around conditioning, you're gonna feel so much pain that you will correct it. So there's that. There's the utility of just being an incredible shepherd, steward of life. I think what he's asking is what do you do after awakening? What do you do after you're abiding on the oneness? You just live life though, enjoy life. Because after you realize emptiness, after you realize you're nothing, you become everything and everything you do is awesome. Every moment is complete in itself. Everything, every moment is timeless, eternal. It's just, you just live life, bro. You live life to the fullest. Because once you become empty, once you disappear into reality, every moment is manifested as the entire reality every single moment. What do you do then? You do eat ice cream or you fuck, you lift weights, you sit in silence, you do nothing. As it is, as it is. Yeah. Listen to music. You love, you love, you wanna love. Yeah, and laugh, both. Love and laugh. Yeah, exactly. You wanna fill the emptiness with the fullness of love. Like what Nisagata said, after realizing the wisdom of nothing, the only thing left to do is fill it up with love. And life, this is the same thing. Beautiful. Okay, and this is a follow-up to that, is how is art different after full awakening? And how do we cultivate ourselves to elevate our pre-awakening? Like we said earlier, a lot of artists create just so they can get into the transcendental state of oneness. That's why, it's not just creativity. It's why we do drugs, it's why we have sex or in love, go to church, make money. It's all about just merging with the source. Everything that we do. So art is no different. Art is just a little bit more direct than the same, maybe making money. But from the ultimate perspective, they're the same. Because most of art comes from ego. You notice that? From the perspective of the Natty State, both art and making money are the exact same thing. People are like, oh my God, I don't wanna make money. I hate business, man. They're so shallow and superficial. I hate capitalism. I'm not being an artist. I'm gonna make really fine, beautiful-looking art. But that's also a gratification of the ego. It's just that the effect of art could feel a little bit more transcendental. It's your critical closer to, I don't know, buying a car, maybe, you know, depends on who you are. Maybe some people, when they sit in the city bands, they go into God consciousness, you know, right? It's all arbitrary. But yeah, so you create, you cultivate yourselves to create art so you can get a gist of the taste of oneness. Now, after Awakening, at least for me personally, I stop, I don't have desire to create art anymore. I like, I make YouTube videos and I talk about this stuff because, I don't know, I don't know why. I just do it. I just do it. But if you look at my videos now versus before, before when I was identified as being an artist, my work actually looks very different. So after Awakening, you make art. Not as ants, but as means to an end. So you can communicate with the state. At least for me, because I can't speak to other people. And you sort of, you lost the interest to even be creative. Because every single moment is creativity in my direct experience. Every single moment is the entire universe manifesting and creating itself. Because after you dissolve the center, what's left? The only thing that's left is the entire universe creating itself from moment to moment. And everything that you wanted out of art and creativity and music, it's right here right now. Every single moment. So you kind of lost that middle man. Before you use art as a middle man to get to the state, after you get to the state, kind of stop caring about playing the violin, making art and drawing all that stuff. I just don't do it that much anymore. Yeah. But then it's still getting manifested because my previous life was an artist. So this artistic program is still somehow in the body. So I use art as a tool to communicate with awakening because that's why my character did it as a program previously, just like lifting. And I can continue to use that program without any attachment as means for an end, without attaching myself to the outcome or doing it out of that identification of being an artist. So in that sense, are you gonna make after awakening if you were an artist before and you still decided to be an artist out of just the natural inclination of the universal? Well, the artist is probably gonna look different. The content would be different. The way you create would be different. You could just stop making art altogether, but at that time, you don't care anymore. A lot of people ask me this question. It's like, oh, I'm an artist, I'm a DJ. I'm afraid that after awakening, I might lose all creativity. I don't wanna create anymore. Maybe do, but you get something much better. By that time, you only care about losing creativity or not wanting to be a DJ anymore. You just wouldn't give a fuck at all. Yeah, seriously. If you do it, awesome. If you don't, you don't care. Yeah, the second part of the question, how do we cultivate ourselves to elevate art pre-awakening? Just ask the big question, which is, am I a separate self or am I part of the entire universe life? And what have I identified myself with? Am I identified with this conditioning or can I be identified as the entirety of life, the universe itself and infinite possibility being my true nature? And if you just do that process of inquiry, that itself will not only increase the awakening, but it'll increase the quality of your art to be more and more about elevating the planetary condition. And then it seems like a lot of what spontaneously arises after full awakening seems to be less of doing for the sake of achievement and more so a very non-attached surrendered unfolding to life itself being art. Yeah, that's why Vipassana is called art of living. I will say that all the techniques I use to wake up, like meditation, self-increasing, it's gonna carry over to how you create art, I mean, pre-awakening. And also the creativity that you're engaging in, playing the violin for me, for example, or drawing, painting, that's also gonna carry over to your contemplative fitness practice because you're training your mind to think differently, to be creative, to get into certain states, right? So practicing violin and meditation at the end is not that much different. You're applying concentration, you're applying emotions, you're training your brain, so to speak, right? So any kind of arts and creativity stuff that you're doing, pre-awakening, it's going to help you with your practices and methods, for sure. All right. Could you have chosen whether to awaken or not? I don't know. I'm not sure what this question is asking really. Isn't it quite straightforward? Could I have chosen? Like, let's say that... It's not the same question as, could I have chosen to be Frank Yang or could I have chosen to be Poong? Could I have chosen to be here right now? Well, maybe also part of it has to do with that infinite possibility, which is really interesting because when you really tap into, like we were talking about in Absolute Normie, when you tap into infinity, you can see all of the little atlases. And there's a lot of atlases that chased after Maya. That's a very interesting point. Wait, hold on, let me get my... I like that one. That's a good visualization. So it's almost like there's an atlas that's already at the end of the path and there's like so many different atlas. And then the one at the end is pulling all the different atlas towards itself. And then like, so they're waiting in line, one pulls the other, the other, the one in the front is pulling one in the back and then the ultimate absolute atlas is like, just abiding the source as itself. And this is exactly what the law of one teaches as that sixth density higher self, which is this absolute atlas that we're talking about. The bin there done that end of the path acting as the mechanism that assists all of the other atlases in the infinite possibility with guidance. And then everyone in your path is doing that too. Yep, and this is life. Life is literally the optimal mechanism for awakening. So... The trajectory of consciousness is to pull itself towards enlightenment. Yes, absolutely. Enlightenment is nothing more than reality being itself, right? So consciousness has a natural trajectory to return to its most natural state because it's already in that state. To dissolve all of the separate conditioning, yeah. That's the cosmological mechanism. That's what the painting is, is that. It's the melting away of the illusory cage. And each of us has our own unique illusory cage. And then we each have a unique process of union, yoga with the nature where we turn inward and we dissolve the separate self-conditioned cage. You could call it a cageless cage. Like you can call it a valeless valer and gaitless gait. So... Definitely. Just play on the infinite possibility space and then pick what is in your highest excitement. What is in that North Star position? And if it is to truly go through this very destructive process of spiritual awakening, then do that. If it's to get a house and a wife and some kids, do that. Cool. All right. Do you think everyone should reach enlightenment within the span of their lifetime? Well, we kind of just talked about this a little bit as well that this the whole cosmological mechanism is that itself. Yeah. But from your perspective, I don't think you need to do anything. Whatever is put in that North Star position. So whether it's, yeah. We're all gonna die anyway, right? So the death, the death is nirvana. We're all reaching that. We're all moving towards nirvana regardless Some people just like to get there faster because they're not the kiss stick. Some people have no choice. But do I think anyone should do anything or everyone should do anything? No. No. Yeah. In terms of like an ordered civilizational doctrine, no, but in terms of a cosmological phenomena that's already unfolding. Yeah. It's already happening. All right. Let's do what are your thoughts on neo-advaita teachings? How do your positions differ from Jim Newman? It's really the same thing, I guess. It's all about the same thing. I think one is that you definitely unpack these stages more Jim says, no stages. This is the absolute stop. He's going at it from the natural state phase. We also talked about how there is no stages, but you know, some people like stages and maps a little bit more than others. Yes, yes. But you realize, yeah, there are no maps or no stages, the whole Dharma is empty, but some people just like to teach from that position. It's a good reminder. It's a really good reminder. But if that's the only reminder you have, then you could run into trouble too because any extremes that you encounter on the path could cause imbalance. Just like when you tell everybody it's all a dream, everything is one, of course it's true, you're the only one that exists, there's no self, there's no others. That's one lens of perception. And like we said in the earlier video, true unity. True unity includes both oneness and separateness. So there's nobody here kind of teaching sort of exclude the person, the individual. Like we said, you wanna be everybody, nobody and somebody. You wanna be nowhere, everywhere and somewhere. That's true unity. You wanna, we sort of operate on three simultaneously. We operate simultaneously on three levels in a sense. All the ultimate is just one level. Like I don't exist, I exist as Atlas and I exist as every possibility. Yeah, you exist as infinity, you exist as nothingness and you exist as Atlas. Yeah, beautiful. And another aspect to this that I find really important is that Frank, would you say that the Neo Advaita, just going direct to this is the absolute, you're seeking home, which is already this, that type of thing? Would you say that that like sort of direct pointer to that fifth stage that we were listing in the Absolute Normie episode? Would you say that at least to be so relentless with perpetually pointing there, at least makes it so that people can know like really quickly, at least like, okay, well, this is the end. Like this is the absolute, like I, like, and then it sort of makes it maybe a little bit more. Could it be Swift to sort of get to that? I think so. I think so too. I think it's both. You wanna follow that path and simultaneously do the Departure of Path. That for me is the most effective. And also, there's also different stages of non-duality. You could feel like very, you could feel a very non-dual even when you still have a center. When the subject and the object, if there's still a duality, it's not the fullest non-duality. But even if there's still a separation there, you could experience infinite consciousness from the separate state and still feel very non-dual. But there's a very subtle sense of merging that's still happening. That's still not true, what I call uni-locality. So my different stages of non-duality is, first you have non-duality, one is awareness of awareness. Second, you have non-locality, which is emptiness. And third, you have uni-locality. Now, they're all just different aspects of non-duality. The deep form of non-duality becomes uni-local. But if you only speak of non-duality without realizing that there are different levels of non-duality at the relative level because it takes a while for you to dissolve. So some people who are still in the beginning stages of non-duality think that's it, but there's actually more of the solution. That's the difference between feeling awareness still from the center, from the separate state, after dissolving a lot of the ego condition is already versus completely dropping over with the center and become uni-local. Cool. And then, how important are retreats? P.S., I love you. I love that last part there. That's so cute. I love you too. I love you, bro. I love you, bro. Yeah, so in my experience, retreats, one retreat, you make more gains in one retreat than you do sitting for an hour a day for the entire year. Because for some reason, retreat just gives you the extra boost because it takes a while for you to go really deep into the mind. If you have a lot of stimulus in everyday life, you're not gonna go deep. You sit for an hour, you wake up from that meditation, from the meditation cushion, you get up and then, conditionings are piling up already as soon as you get up. So the retreat, you have no room for the condition to realize because you're constantly in a state of silence. So that's why it's only on the fifth, sixth day of the retreat that you really experience something profound because it takes that many days to get subtler and subtler levels of the mind until you peel away all the surface level stuff and you go deep within yourself. Like you just can't get that when you sit for an hour a day or have an hour a day. In my experience. Yeah, and Frank specifically mentioning Vipassana and I concur that the large part to why I am where I'm at right now in understanding all of these nuances around spiritual awakening is because of Vipassana and Frank illustrated it perfectly which is that you really do need the long period of sitting repeatedly to get to the roots as was taught by Buddha in this lineage of extinguishing the most deepest roots of the conditioning and the separate self and the cravings and the aversions and the attachments and the noble silence that is taken and the fact that you have no technology that you can access the fact that you don't look at anyone else in the eyes, all of those components further amplify it is like going super sane during that period of time and just don't necessarily get into and Frank has sort of done this in his content he's talked about this process but he's sort of just perpetuating the cycle of going and sitting without also combining that with do nothing meditation and self inquiry and entheogens and these other for example, reading the end of your world or reading, I am that like these are good books are also great from the greatest sages are great additions to sitting on retreats. Some people, so for some, I mean, I can't speak for everyone but some people that they go to retreats and they go, you know, they're not very stabilized and kind of problems that they just sit for an hour a day that we better for them or some people get into a lot of crazy mystical states that they can get attached to those states that could also be a problem. There are some teachers that advise against long retreats for those reasons but they're just, you know, advocating do you just pay attention to present moment right now while doing every day task or just sit for half an hour here and there? So it all depends on the individual. All depends on the individual. I'll say that if you don't know what works for you just try them both and see what happens. Yeah, and especially the try thing like try and see how it is for you. Yeah, cool. All right, thoughts on public intellectuals like Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, et cetera and why they often stay clear of metaphysical discussion despite their deep insights into the mind and human psychology. If you haven't yet listened to Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris in their discussions that they've had in Vancouver and in London and Dublin I think that they've had great discussions and Brett Weinstein and Douglas Murray moderated them and they basically do the synthesis of spirituality and science. Or you could say they aim to find how to extract out the best from both and merge them together and then get rid of the stuff that doesn't work basically. And so they already do a good job at this stuff but they do it from a perspective of like they can't say something that will put their clout or fame or status in jeopardy in a sense. So they do it very carefully. They do it to avoid that. That's been like the number one thing that I've noticed is that like right now being 28 like when I was 27 and I didn't necessarily have much experience with what I'm talking about now with spiritual awakening I wasn't doing, I wasn't saying this I wasn't talking about this because I had no experience with it. Now I have experience with it so I talk about it a bit and I would say that maybe Jordan, Sam and many of these other people that were in like the intellectual dark web may not necessarily have had a biting awakening experience and maybe they've had glimpses but that then makes it so that they don't have the direct experience and the realization to be able to speak from the place as well. You said it perfectly. I don't have to add anything. Okay, all right, cool. And that's what I would have said, exactly what I've said. Beautiful, yeah. Frank and I are vibing on deeper and deeper wavelengths and synchronicities there. I love that. And just another thing is that I have messaged Eric Weinstein and Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson all within like the last couple of months asking them to for Jordan to come back on the show and for Eric and Sam to be featured on the show. And I have not heard back from them and I've specifically asked them around these biggest metaphysical subjects. So it was not, hey, Jordan, could we promote your new book? It was, let's talk about what the nature of reality is. And that can also be a little bit, again, difficult for somebody that's in yet at the same time, it could be great for society and great for civilization for one of them in this later state of their career to turn towards the conversations around the nature of reality rather than the... And Sam is very much doing this, by the way, on like the Waking Up podcast. He just had Jim Newman on like a couple of months ago and he's been having more and more, some like Dzogchen masters, this type of stuff on the program. So it is great, but also at some point, what about like not focusing on the political polarization and just sort of taking a firm stance in empty infinity? What about taking a firm stance in that? What about taking a stance of saying I'm not Sam Harris, but I'm actually life itself? I'm nothing, everything and Sam Harris. What about that stance? What about in sharing that with the world? So it's just, it could be a little bit more exciting for society and civilization to have some of these bigger figures sort of take a deeper step into those direct realizations that they've had. Cool. Okay. All right. And then let's have Frank do this one. Are babies and animals enlightened? Well, I mean, natural state is kind of like, you see no distinction between you and animals, you know, babies or anybody else. I think in, I guess enlightenment is kind of like the combination of a state of an animal or babies yet on top of that vision of that. So now you have to distinguish between the post and transhuman fallacy. Ken Wilbur talks about this. He says, are babies enlightened? He says, no, because they haven't grown an ego yet. You have to grow the ego and then just identify from the ego. That's why we go back to how the spiritual path is about being identified with certain states and then just identifying from it. You have to access it before you can disappear into it or you can collapse into it. So I would say like enlightened state is kind of like, you have a brain of a baby, but also of an old person and a young person too, or animals and God and everything. So it's like having the meta awareness of this natural state, because if you're only in the natural state and you don't have the meta cognition of it, then see you have the ego state in this side and you have the baby state or the animal state in this side. They're almost like two opposite sides of the extreme, right? And I guess enlightenment is almost like a synthesis of them. The middle way of both the self, the ego, and the complete no self of babies and animals. So the pre and transhuman fallacy is like, don't mistaken a child who can draw like Picasso to be Picasso, to be able to draw like Picasso, first has to learn how to draw like a classical painter. He has to paint like Raphael before he can abstract from the Raphael. So same babies are enlightened is like saying elephants can paint like Raphael, oh, sorry, Picasso, or saying babies, their finger paintings is like Picasso. That's the difference between pre and post knowledge. Even though on the surface they might look the same, just like how, you know, people like wild, our ancestors, the Hunts and Gathers are there in the natural state. Yes and no, they're in a pre knowledge phase. It's going through civilization and then going back to the natural state, I merge the post and pre knowledge. That's what I have to say about that. Cool. Yeah, and we talked about that a bit on the absolute normie episode as well where the birthing, especially in indigeneity of children without the egoic separate self conditioning forming is almost acting like a gateway into that natural state. And that is a main component of, as we talk about putting together these pedagogies for young kids, especially to undergo the process of recognizing their true nature from age five, 10, 15 is awesome. And then we could potentially see that type of civilization a hundred years from now where it is very simultaneously star trekking and also very monastery and also very ecologically harmonious and just abundant, prosperous, everyone being actualized and realized so exciting. Cool. Yeah, Frank and I are working on that. This question has like a couple of different levels because like sometimes when you abide in that dark cloud, the absolute, there's not even a meta cognition of like awakening like that. So like at state, it's almost like just think of the state of the universe before there was any humans or before you were born, before the big band and after the crunch even, like just contemplate what that state is like. If no conceptual projection of even spirituality itself or what it's like. Perfect. Yeah. You know, is that the same state as the baby? Is that the same state as like deers, trees even, or bugs? Perfect. Perfect, Frank. Perfect. And the last question is, how does driving feel like in the Natty state? I think again, the best way to describe this is it's just the universe driving itself. When you walk, it's just you walk. When you move your feet, it's the whole universe is driving the feet and vice versa. It is just the universe eating. Well, I mean, if you want to analyze it, it could feel like a driving headless. It could feel like, it could feel like you're not going anywhere because you know, infinity doesn't really go anywhere. You're like this huge field of awareness and you're just driving within this, this Dharma body. This is what I call the Dharma body. It's when you have no separation at all between you and the universe, the entire universe feels like your body and you're driving inside this body as this body. So you're not really going anywhere. But at the same time, everything's moving simultaneously at the speed of light through dependent originations. So you get two levels, the absolute goo of homogeneity and the relative goo of the links of dependent origination, of the heterogeneity happening simultaneously. What made it trippy, man? I remember the first time I went downstairs after the big bang, I was like, I couldn't even walk straight. I was like, this thing is fucking huge, man. Like, it's like, I don't have a head or a body. It's like, I don't have a mind or a body. It's just the world. It's just the world as itself doing its thing. So this question is funny because driving, during that state, it's the same as walking or eating during that state. This is driving, it's a little bit more trippy because you're moving. You're moving in this. It's hard to explain. I think that's why people like to go on walks. Like a lot of day masters, they like to contemplate when they walk. If there's movement, in a sense, you can kind of observe and investigate the state. You can pronounce the state even more fully sometimes when you're engaging in sort of this embodied task of washing the dishes and carrying the water and chopping wood, right? That's what I was trying to indicate to you in the absolute normie episode. When I was saying, as you're walking into the fridge, you take a stop. Yes. Yeah, that type thing. Exactly. And also when we were talking about the cleaning out the very dirty garbage can, having that same empty fullness as watching the hummingbirds. So like driving is not different from any other state. At some point, everything you do just becomes one seamless whole. Like there's no difference between waking state. There's no difference between that and the sleeping state, dreamless sleep even or the dream state. It's just one seamless whole. Because when you're constantly in like somebody, it's going back and forth between those different relative dream levels is really just the same thing. Okay, beautiful, holy, beautiful first Q&A together. There were a lot of questions in the comments that I would love for everyone that wrote a question in the live chat. If you could post your question in the comments of this AMA and what we'll do is we'll grab the questions from the comments of the AMA and we'll put those into the next AMA document and rank order those and answer them on the next one. And we feel like you could potentially expect that maybe in like six or so weeks, like a month and a half or so. And thank you everyone for tuning in and Frank for being so just concise and on the dot. Thank you. Thank you, Atlas. Thank you for having me. That was really fun. Super. Every episode with you, I wish I lied for you. Yeah. Yeah, every episode with you has been super fun. I always have a deep, deep experience. Yeah, and it's definitely hugely a part of like Frank's continued exploration of spiritual awakening that has gotten me deepening the realizations on my end too. It's been super important for so many others. And again, the links in the bio are to Frank's Instagram. He's got great content on there, especially on Astoria. He impacts the deepening of the realizations there. Go follow him and check those out and also subscribe to his YouTube channel. He has great content that he's been posting there as well, especially his last two videos. Go and check that out. If this video AMA brought you value, give it a like. It helps the algorithm. Subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet and share the video with other people that you feel like this would profoundly influence. And that is all. Again, if you have questions that you would like to line up for the second AMA, do write them in the comments below and then we will grab them and put them into the next AMA pool. So infinite love. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Frank. Bye, everyone.